Petraeus condemns torture.
Petraeus condemns torture.
In an open letter yesterday, Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, “admonished his troops regarding the results of an Army survey that found that many U.S military personnel there are willing to tolerate some torture of suspects and unwilling to report abuse by comrades.” From the letter:
I was concerned by the results of a recently released survey conducted last fall in Irasq that revealed an apparent unwillingness on the part of some US personnel to report illegal actions taken by fellow members of their units. The study also indicated that a small percentage of those surveyed may have mistreated noncombatants. This survey should spur reflection on our conduct in combat. …
Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary.
UPDATE: Andrew Sullivan calls it a “stunning letter“:
[I]t’s one of the most important letters to come from a senior military official in a very long time. The very fact that it is necessary reveals the extent of the damage that Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney have done. But the fact that it is addressed to every servicemember in the field from their commander in the field shows that honor is not dead in the US military, and that repair is possible.
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Am I cynical, or is that just chock full of weasel words?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:13 amHe should be given the Congressional Medal of Honor for this action.
To stand up for his morals in the face of a corrupt administration where the ends ALWAYS justifies the means is a true hero.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:14 amSend a letter to Dick Cheney, Petraus, and a copy to Gonzo as well.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:14 amWe’ve sunk so far that we need to have a top general remind us that torture is bad. How sad.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:15 amPetraeus is stating outright that Bush and Gonzales are wrong. They have both condoned and continue to condone the use of torture. Time to “listen to the Generals on the ground, President Idiot-Boy.”
May 11th, 2007 at 10:16 amAlso, if the information obtained through torture is not true, how is torture expedient?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:17 ami posted yesterday on my blog about the interrogation techniques that were approved by lt. gen. ricardo sanchez in 2003 for use in iraq… insofar as i know, they have never been rescinded… sanchez also perjured himself before the senate armed services committee in 2004 by claiming that he never authorized them, in spite of the fact that his signature is on the cover memo…
petraeus can condemn torture all he wants, but we know it’s still happening under official auspices and probably a lot more of it than we will ever know…
And, yes I DO take it personally
May 11th, 2007 at 10:19 amIn the meantime Patraeus tools around Iraq protected by Blackwater Mercenaries, our new Praetorian Guard. So much for his contact with the Grunts on the Ground.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:20 amAmerica is screwed.
If he condemnstorture so much, why is he still keeping the troops in Iraq?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:20 amAlso, if the information obtained through torture is not true, how is torture expedient?
Comment by Peter
That’s what happened during the Inquisition…
May 11th, 2007 at 10:21 amyo, someone needs to update the general that american doctrine has been changed to reflect the values of the republican administration and their enablers.
do you honestly think lindsey graham doesn’t have his own personal copy of the abu ghraib dvds — prolly with a chimpy autograph.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:22 amPetraeous may condemn torture…but trolls favor torture. Therefore Petraeous must be a traitor and an angry, humorless liberal who contributes to MoveOn.org.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:22 amIt’s more like Patraeus kinda, sorta and maybe sometimes but not unconditionally “condemns” torture. Wow, what a backbone!
May 11th, 2007 at 10:24 am#13 – Willy
That was my feeling, as well.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:28 amdo you honestly think lindsey graham doesn’t have his own personal copy of the abu ghraib dvds — prolly with a chimpy autograph.
Comment by linda — May 11, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Isn’t Lindsey Graham the guy that played guitar for Fleetwood Mac and shtupped Stevie Nicks? I thought all those musicians were liberal.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:29 amThe General is obviously weak on terrorism. We need to follow the lead of ral men like Bill O’Reilly.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:29 amWhy does Petraeus hate the troops?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:29 amZooey – Reading the whole letter, I think Petraeus’ position is unequivocal.
And after the write-up he received in Fiasco – Tom Ricks pretty much held him out as the most outstanding general in Iraq – it’s consistent with what he stood for before he was promoted.
This is a good letter, from an apparently good general. It’s far too late however for him to save an utterly f*cked up situation.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:32 amWHAT?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:34 amHas George Soros gotten to Patraeus, too?
Seriously. I’m curious how’s this going to go down with the “lets-just-listen-to-Patraeus-and-forget-all-the-mistakes-leading-up-to-this-mess” crowd?
Listen up troops if we behave for a month the Oil contracts are in the Bag
May 11th, 2007 at 10:36 ambut what if a nuke was going to go off in your house in five minutes? would you torture then???
you gotta love consternative logic… good on yer, Petraeus…
May 11th, 2007 at 10:36 amUsing the word “frequently” sort of disclaims everything he said before the last sentence. It suggests that there are “infrequent” times when torture is indeed “useful and necessary.”
May 11th, 2007 at 10:39 amIn the less than moral atmosphere of the Bush administration this may well be a difficult step forward for Petreous, but from the view from over here it merely looks like a few baby steps. Way to really stand up to the Commander Guy, Petraeus!
/sarc
May 11th, 2007 at 10:42 amI like it! If he’s serious, it’s a nice slap in the face to dick and “w” and gonzo. And although it’s too little, too late, it might help a few years down the road when we have a chance to get ‘merica’s moral leadership back out of the sewer that dick and “w” have dumped it in…
May 11th, 2007 at 10:50 amI’m so glad I found this site where all the answers so the world’s difficult questions are crystallized and disseminated.
Thanks!
May 11th, 2007 at 10:50 am#
I’m so glad I found this site where all the answers so the world’s difficult questions are crystallized and disseminated.
Thanks!
Comment by Pernie Born — May 11, 2007 @ 10:50 am
#
You’re welcome. Have a nice day.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:58 amThis is a good letter, from an apparently good general. It’s far too late however for him to save an utterly f*cked up situation.
Comment by Dumb_Fox
Thanks Dumb Fox, I didn’t have time this morning to read the whole letter. Like you said, it’s too late anyway. Oy…
May 11th, 2007 at 10:59 amAnd what of Gitmo? I think the general just volunteered for early retirement.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:04 amChimpy is refusing to extradite Posada, an anti-Castro terrorist who blew up a Cuban airliner and Havana hotels with help from the CIA.
Chimpy says that Cuba or Venezuala would torture the guy.
Does anybody else see the irony in this?
May 11th, 2007 at 11:05 amHow many other and perhaps better generals have disagreed even slightly with the current regime? In spite of the weasel words, I foresee an abrupt end to Petraeus’ career.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:06 amthe fact that he had to write this after over four years of occupation tells you all you need to know.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:07 amTorture is not useful for getting intel. It is unreliable.
The FBI studied it thoroughly and came to this expert conclusion.
Torture only works effectively for one purpose, getting people to confess. Torture can make anyone confess to anything, even the tough guys.
The Military Commissions Act allows the US to use confessions gained under torture to prosecute detainees at Gitmo and elsewhere.
Chimpy and his thugs have destroyed the Rule of Law in the US.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:18 amHe should be given the Congressional Medal of Honor for this action.
To stand up for his morals in the face of a corrupt administration where the ends ALWAYS justifies the means is a true hero.
Comment by Dogjudge — May 11, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Yeah but he supports the surge so all his opinions are worthless.
Haven’t you been paying attention to what TP has been telling you about him ?
Sure his tactics represent a uniformly positive change of direction in Iraq, but you are required to complain about the surge and everything related to it. Pay attention.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:21 amI think we are all missing the point here. I don’t believe this letter is a slap in the face to the adminstration. I think it is to remind our troops that we are still the greatest military in the world and that despite the fact that things are very tough, we must continue to conduct ourselves in a professional manner. A quote from the letter which was left out here is that Gen. Petraeus said we must “occupy the moral high ground”. I can be tough on a soldier’s morale (btw I am one) when your enemy is willing to use women and children as human shields, drive car fulls of explosives into crowded markets once when children were still inside, kidnap and behead people who they claim are “infidels” etc. The list can go on. I don’t believe Petraeus cares about what is going on above him. He’s been given a mission and he’s going to try and acomplish it the best he can and his main concern is the welfare of his soldiers.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:29 amTorture has never been about gathering information. Its only purpose is to destroy people.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:44 am#33 – These “uniformly positive change(s)†must be incredibly subtle since they seem to be obscured by minor things like near record killings and casualties.
May 11th, 2007 at 11:46 amId better believe Jack Bauer. /troll
May 11th, 2007 at 11:58 amI think you Repuke trolls are missing the point.
Our troops think torture is okay. Some of them admit to doing it. Most of them say they would cover for their buddies doing it.
When one of our top generals has to remind our soldiers to obey the law and not torture or murder Iraqis, that means things are bad.
We need to get out of Iraq. Now.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:00 pm#28
That doesn’t happen at Gitmo.
Waterboarding and turning the thermostat down are not torture.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:12 pmOh no, waterboarding isn’t torture. That’s why it was the favorite technique of the Khmer Rouge and Tomas de Torquemada. That’s why many Japanese soldiers were tried for war crimes for doing it in World War 2. Because it wasn’t torture.
It really requires either incredibly dry and succinct sarcasm or a special level of ignorance to make comments like “Waterboarding and turning the thermostat down are not torture”.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:46 pmWhat nonsense. The japs used to beat people, which is torture.
Waterboarding doesn’t cause physical damage.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmWaterboarding and turning the thermostat down are not torture.
Comment by m12
Hey, let’s meet, and I’ll waterboard you on camera; you can state that waterboarding isn’t torture – if you’re able to, that is. We can offer dvd’s to all the wingnuts as evidence that it isn’t really torture. I’ll give you half the profits, and you can even have the t-shirt concession to yourself. Whatta ‘ya say? Partners?
May 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmWaterboarding doesn’t cause physical damage.
Comment by m12
Unless you have an undiagnosed lung embolysm. Then it is a death sentence.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pmYour post was a little garbled, so I fixed it, gratis.
Waterboarding doesn’t cause physical damage. What nonsense.
Comment by m12 — May 11, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
May 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pmThe Fleetwood Mac guy was Lindsey Buckingham.
May 11th, 2007 at 1:13 pmComment by m12
Strange, but whenever I offer this financial opportunity to wingsters, they always disappear. They say it’s no big deal, until someone asks them to demonstrate, and suddenly all that’s left is a pile of pidgeon droppings, and pin feathers. Real profiles in courage, these guys.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:35 pmWaterboarding and turning the thermostat down are not torture.
Comment by m12
And this is a citizen from the most powerful country, people. How low can you get?
May 11th, 2007 at 2:44 pmDo any of you “people” have a clue? GEN Petraeus is the most honest and honorable man. Stop with the crap. I’m ashamed to be called an American if it means I am grouped with you.
May 11th, 2007 at 4:47 pmThe most efficient tortures are those that do the least physical damage, because then the suffering can be sustained for whatever period of time desired. Psychological damage is the aim of torture.
But you know what? Don’t worry about it. You just carry right on making excuses and justifications that let you pretend that torture isn’t torture.
May 11th, 2007 at 6:17 pmThese “uniformly positive change(s)†must be incredibly subtle since they seem to be obscured by minor things like near record killings and casualties.
Comment by Dreary Urbanite — May 11, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Can you find the title of this article ?
May 12th, 2007 at 2:31 amOr is the idea that abandoning harmful policies like torture isn’t really necessary until there is a change in the level of violence ?
Or is there really no idea going on here.