Audience Applauds As Giuliani, Tancredo Endorse Waterboarding Torture
Audience Applauds As Giuliani, Tancredo Endorse Waterboarding Torture
During tonight’s presidential debates, candidates were asked whether they would support the use of waterboarding — a technique, defined as torture by the Justice Department, that simulates drowning and makes the subject “believe his death is imminent while ideally not causing permanent physical damage.”
Both former mayor Rudy Giuliani and Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) suggested they would support using the technique. Specifically asked about waterboarding, Giuliani said he would allow “every method [interrogators] could think of and I would support them in doing it.” Tancredo later added, “I’m looking for Jack Bauer,” referencing the television character who has used torture techniques such as suffocation and electrocution on prisoners.
The audience applauded loudly after both statements. Watch it:
During the debate last year over loosening the definition of torture, Gen. Colin Powell declared, “The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism. To redefine Common Article 3 [of the Geneva Conventions]…would put our own troops at risk.” Earlier this year, the U.S. Army dispatched a general to tell producers of the television show 24 that its promotion of torture “was having a damaging effect on young troops.”
Transcript:
HUME: Mayor Giuliani, the former Director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, the current head of the CIA have both said that the most valuable intelligence tool they have had has been the information gained from what are called “enhanced interrogation techniques,” to include, presumably, waterboarding. What is your view whether such techniques should be applied in a scenario like the one I described?
GIULIANI: In the hypothetical that you gave me, which assumes that we know there is going to be another attack and these people know about it, I would tell the people who had to do the interrogation to use every method they can think of. Shouldn’t be torture, but every method they can think of.
HUME: Water boarding?
GIULIANI: I would say every method they could think of, and I would support them in doing that because I have seen — [applause] — I have seen what can happen when you make a mistake about this and I don’t want to see another 3,000 people dead in New York or any place else.
+++
TANCREDO: I just say that it’s almost unbelievable to listen to this in a way. We are talking about it in such a theoretical fashion. You say that nuclear devices have gone off in the United States, more are planned, and we are wondering about whether waterboarding would a bad thing to do? I’m look for Jack Bauer at that time, let me tell you. [applause] There is nothing — if you are talking about — I mean, we are the last best hope of Western Civilization. So all of the theories that go behind our activities, subsequent to these nuclear attacks going off in the United States, they go out the window. When we go under, western civilization goes under. So you better take that into account and you better do every single thing you can as President of the United States to make sure, number one, it doesn’t happen, that’s right. But, number two, you better respond in a way that makes them fearful of you, because, otherwise, you guarantee something like this will happen.
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Ron Paul is toast…
…just being lambasted by the right wing fascists on the stage…
…because he said that 9/11 was an attack of our own making…
…â€blowback†for all of al Ceerackkka America’s interference in the Islamic world…
…Guiliani is such a phony bi*ch…
…â€As someone who lived through 9/11 I’ve headrd some lame explanations of why 9/11 happened but this hasto be one of the lamest. I’d like to hear the Congressman take back that statement and apologizeâ€â€¦
…(and the right wing inbreds in the audience went WILD)…
…John McCain is asked by the Black Fox slave about the propriety of flying the TREASONOUS “cuntfederate†flag over the RACIST South Carolina statehouse…
…and the LILY-WHITE al CEERACKKKER audience GROANS loudly…
…then applauds at McCain’snervous answer (that it was a mistake on his part to say that it was up to the state to decide that, but it’s not now OVER the statehouse and the controversey is settled)…
…South Carolina was the perfect location to hold this FOX PROPAGANDA REPULSIVESCUM kissy-fest…
…IT CLEARLY shows that the REPULSIVESCUM PARTY is the party of RACIST SH*T-fer-brains retards…
…the REPULSIVESCUM PARTY should be ANNIHILATED!
…may God DESTROY EVERY ONE of the CONNED’selfserving right wing scum (and their bloodlines) in that South Carolina building (where the “debate is being held)…
…AND their counterparts worldwide…
May 15th, 2007 at 11:19 pmThese are some bashit crazy fascist bastards…I guess that is what the 28%ers are looking for…more crazy bastards.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:21 pmThey’re REALLY out their minds! Absolutley Incredible. How could anyone vote for people like this?!!!
May 15th, 2007 at 11:21 pmtorture is immoral. torture is disgusting. torture is illegal. torture engenders more hatred against us. torture ensures us that people will try to torture americans. the constitution doesn’t permit the government to engage in torture.
period.
some reading:
May 15th, 2007 at 11:21 pm“Should the US Military be Allowed to use Torture?
http://www.populistamerica.com/ should_the_u_s__military_be_allowed_to_use_torture
Frightening footage.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:22 pmApparently, you can’t beg Guiliani for forgiveness, you can’t beg Tancredo for mercy, apparently you can’t Torquemada anything!
May 15th, 2007 at 11:22 pmTORTURE - Endoresed and applauded!
If they still reflected the majority of Americans, it would be a reason to be concerned.
However, they just represent 28% of the American public. Disturbing, but not as much of a concern as it was previously.
The rats are leaving the sinking ship!
May 15th, 2007 at 11:24 pmDidn’t the US military ask Jack Bauer to pack in teaching their soldiers that torture was A-OK anytime anywhere?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:25 pmIdiots applauding morons.
Sheep, one and all….
May 15th, 2007 at 11:26 pmThey’re living in some comic-book fantasy world, where everyone strapped to a chair with a bag over his head *is* a terrorist and deserves to be tortured. Don’t these idiots, these fools, consider what happens if we torture innocent people? Don’t they realize that this “torture ‘em all and let God sort them out” HAS BEEN HAPPENING in Iraq, and it helps fill the ranks of the insurgents?
This Republican fascination with torturing anyone you can get your hands on simply must stop.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:26 pmThey applauded… yep they sure did.
As McCain put it later… this is what the SPANISH INQUISITION DID… are we going to act like the spanish inquisition? WTF is next? Iron Maindens…. do they deserve Iron Maidens because they are associated to some group or another because of some possibly fraudulent “evidence”? How about the whole poking them through with a spear and hoisting them up on that pole until they die… and put them up like that in a big circle around Baghdad? Or hell why not let these people FEEL THE PAIN… Crusify their asses…. no more 911s guaranteed… Have you proven your real men yet?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:26 pmEndorsing torture ought to disqualify you as a candidate for president of the U.S.A.. The fact that these guys seem to think endorsing torture will help them in their presidential bids is a solid indictment of our society.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:26 pmWell waterboard both of them and see how they like it.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:27 pmWhy are you all surprised?
…these are the same LYNCHERS (and their progeny)…
…who terrorized Blacks (and other minorities)…
…for decades…
May 15th, 2007 at 11:31 pmLet’s put it this way. 60 years ago this same crowd would be packing a picnic lunch to watch the local lynching.
They’d be cheering and jeering and spitting on the poor accused and screaming for blood.
This is the fascist rump of America.
-GSD
May 15th, 2007 at 11:33 pmHave Giuliani dress up in drag, with wig and makeup, then waterboard him off and on for an hour or so, then see if he still thinks it is not bad torture.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:35 pmWell waterboard both of them and see how they like it.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 15, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
Excellent. Then we could get their expert opinion on whether or not they felt tortured.
I’m looking forward to it — f*cking bastards.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:36 pmWhy are you all surprised?
…these are the same LYNCHERS (and their progeny)…
…who terrorized Blacks (and other minorities)…
…for decades…
Comment by big papa
Let’s put it this way. 60 years ago this same crowd would be packing a picnic lunch to watch the local lynching.
They’d be cheering and jeering and spitting on the poor accused and screaming for blood.
This is the fascist rump of America.
-GSD
Comment by GSD
Oh ya… we really are not that far removed yet are we?….
I wonder sometimes what it would take for America to actually start up coliseums for blood sport games…
May 15th, 2007 at 11:37 pmAnd now we return you to the days of the Salem Witch Hunts…
May 15th, 2007 at 11:42 pmZooey > Giuliani and Tancredo have no idea what waterboarding is in reality. The person is tied up with arms at their side, then strapped to a flat wide board face up, then a plastic film is wrapped over their face and water poured on their face. The person sufficates and believes they are drowning. The procedure can cause heart failure, or can cause you to throwup and choke to death on the vomit. The North Vietnamese perfected waterboarding and it is 100% torture.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:46 pmstopthecons:
Article and section please, in the United States Constitution, where you think the government is prohibited from engaging in torture? CON LAW Harvard professor Dershowitz disagrees with you.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:46 pmWow…that is really scary. But, people are listening. And I don’t think that the people in this country are too happy with our endorsing torture. Supposedly an al Queda cell has three of our guys right now. I don’t even want to think about what is being done to them. But, if they are being tortured, we are in no moral position to repudiate the captors for torturing our guys.
I weep for what we have become. We have become the enemy.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:49 pmWe are NOT the christians that murdered untold numbers of people in devices like the rack and the iron maiden.
We are NOT the nazis.
We are NOT the romans.
Look up the Magna Carta. The U.S. Constitution the Bill of Rights. We are not THEM.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:50 pm#18 - Comment by Gerald Gibson Jr — May 15, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
“I wonder sometimes what it would take for America to actually start up coliseums for blood sport games…”
I’m not so sure that these yahoos represent more than 28% of the public. The rest that voted for them may have just been stampeded by fear and the cheerleading of the mainstream media into join them.
Sadly, however, it could happen again, and that would be a horror! Americans are, after all, slooooooow learners: 129 years to give women the vote and 100 years to abolish segregation.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:51 pm#21 Jake
The Constitution is written under positive grant, and dershowitz knows this. - although he’d never admit it.
What “postive grant” means is simple - if a power is not authorized by the constitution, the federal government cannot do it. plain and simple.
This was such a concern of many of the founding fathers that they wrote the Tenth Amendment - which specifically states this:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
There is nothing whatsoever in the Constitution that authorizes the government to engage in torture.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:51 pm#20 — Jay Randal
It’s sick that these fools can get behind something like that — for votes.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:52 pmAnd it’s sick that people would vote for them because of it.
Waterboarding is not torture.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThe people who cheered are a disgrace to our nation.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:53 pmOMG, Jake. You are saying that if the US Constitution doesn’t prohibit torture we should be able to do it? You are one scary dude. What about the Geneva Conventions which, by the way, we signed on to?
Talk about a strict constructionist. This is what we get when we have a batshit president and a bunch of neoCONS runing this country. We are in such deep shit. I sure hope we can get ourselves out of this mess that the neoCONS have gotten us into.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:53 pmHave Giuliani dress up in drag, with wig and makeup, then waterboard him off and on for an hour or so, then see if he still thinks it is not bad torture.
Comment by Jay Randal
That’s a good idea, but what do you recommend for Tancredo?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:54 pmSen. John McCain was never waterboarded as a prisoner in North Vietnam, because he was the son of a US Admiral and too valuable to risk his life waterboarding him, but I believe he saw it done to other American prisoners.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:54 pmWaterboarding is not torture.
Comment by m12 — May 15, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
Thanks for verifying your moral bankruptcy.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:55 pmWaterboarding is not torture.
Comment by m12 —
So are you willing to undergo it to demonstrate your claim, m12?
May 15th, 2007 at 11:56 pmDisgusting. This is what the neocons have reduced a once-honorable political party to…can’t wait to see the party platform on torture!
May 15th, 2007 at 11:57 pmCON LAW Harvard professor Dershowitz disagrees with you.
Comment by Jake
Dershowitz? Now, thats a reliable source of human right expertise.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:57 pmLora > my recommendation for Tancredo is strip him buck naked, threaten him with mean German shepherd dogs, then waterboard him in the nude.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:58 pmWaterboarding is not torture.
Comment by m12
Coming from the nuclear paladin, I wouldnt care too much about that statement.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:59 pmSo are you willing to undergo it to demonstrate your claim, m12?
Not especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:59 pmTHAT’s WHY we call them CONTURDS- I’ll bet they are “good Christians”, too, just ask them. SCUM.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:00 amWhere did they find the gaggle of Neanderthals that attended this conference. Pretty visceral bunch if you ask me.
I wonder if they all remembered to bring their white hoods.
Ron Paul has integrity. The rest are pandering or are throwbacks themselves.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am#36- I’d bet he pays a mistress a lot of money for similar kicks.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:01 amGiuliani: “every method [interrogators] could think of and I would support them in doing it.â€
May 16th, 2007 at 12:01 amTancredo: “I’m looking for Jack Bauer…â€
Just more immaturity created by recitation of the teachings of the Republican Party.
America morally declines each time these kind of idiots speak.
Well, we saw people cheering after this:
Borat: May George Bush drink the blood of every man, woman and child in Iraq!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:01 amted and rudy belong to the world wrestling entertainment school of interrogation…
May 16th, 2007 at 12:01 amAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
Zooey > the GOPers who think waterboarding is OK are certified sick. The procedure I mentioned is repeated over and over till the tortured person screams to confess to whatever. Imagine having your face wrapped in plastic repeatedly and water poured over you several times.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:03 am#32
Don’t like waterboarding? Don’t perform it. Pro-choice, right?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:04 amstopthecons:
There are plenty of specific PROHIBITIONS on the federal government in the Constitution — the word “torture” is not there (but neither is “abortion” — I can cite plenty of provision where “torture” is in the penumbra of powers granted, if you are admitting it is not prohibited. For instance, if the Commander-in-Chief has to order the testicles of a terrorist’s child crushed to save the lives of 300,000,000 Americans, then torture away.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:07 amThe waterboarding from the Middle Ages was different. The person was strapped usually face down on a board with their head hanging over the edge, then the person was dunked head first into a pond for a minute or so. They usually repeated this till the person drowned.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:09 amIf you actually read what he said (transcript above), you’ll see that Tancredo’s support for “Jack Bauer” is contingent on a nightmare scenario. Of course, TP forgot to include the nightmare scenario in the excerpts they do provide, and of course TP is also putting words in Tancredo’s mouth vis-a-vis what Jack Bauer do.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:10 amif waterboarding is proof positive of truth, then is it not wise to create laws that ALL, Democratic and Republican and Independent leaders of our country face the new truth serum?
I personally dont subscribe to this process as people lie. But hey if the politicians say its good then let them be the first test subjects, Left and right.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:11 am#38 - Comment by m12 — May 15, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
“So are you willing to undergo it to demonstrate your claim, m12?”
“Not especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.”
m12 is INTO punishment!
Demented sado-masochists like m12, Giuliani, Tancredo, and their NeoCon, 28%, cheering squad always are.
These are pitiful souls. m12 especially needs our prayers! He is headed for punishment hell!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:11 amSo are you willing to undergo it to demonstrate your claim, m12?
Not especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
Comment by m12
Waterboarding is supposedly not used as punishment but to get the captive to confess something. As even neoCON John McCain knows very well, people will sometimes to confess to anything just to get the torture (or in your mind, “procedure”) to end and that the quality of information garnered from such practices tends to be poor and also carries the risk of implicating a completely innocent person who is named while the waterboarding is going on.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:13 amJake > I do not believe you would like your testicles crushed. Best way to stop torture is to imagine it done to yourself. If a waterboard had been set up at the GOP debate and audience members used to show how it is done, then nobody would have cheered.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:14 amBravo! What strong leadership we can look forward to! And I say, Why stop at waterboarding when we can cut suspects’ toes and pluck their eyes! Wait, kill their babies in front of their eyes, then pluck their eyes. Bravo! That’ll teach them not to be at the wrong place at the wrong time!
(Man, this debate was slightly disappointing. From these people appearing on this channel in front of this audience I would have expected at least a public hanging by the end of the debate. Or even better, a stoning).
May 16th, 2007 at 12:16 amThe hypothetical is bizarre. As if someone involved with nuking the USA and is captured and they believe that there is any salvation is nuts. They must certainly know they are dead no matter what so why would they assist in trying to stop some ridiculious scenario. The hypothetical is so impossible, it’s irrelevant to ask the canidates.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:16 amnd of course TP is also putting words in Tancredo’s mouth vis-a-vis what Jack Bauer do.
Comment by Immigration2008DotCom
You sir are confusing a celluloid script with politics. Reverse the order.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:16 amNot especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
Comment by m12
Punishment for what — exactly?
Aren’t the torturers trying to obtain information via waterboarding?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:17 amPunishment, has supposedly not commenced.
That’s after the secret trial. Right?
#47 - The tenth Amendment is in plain English. If the power is not given, the federal government can’t do it.
penumbra? that’s just what power-hungry politicians will tell people - oh, right, well this includes other powers.
believe it if you’d like, but anyone can read the constitution and see for themselves that there is nothing that authorizes the government to engage in torture.
The Constitution doesn’t apply to people. It doesn’t give “rights” It doesn’t apply to anyone at all. It applies to the government.
The Constitution states what the government CAN do, and the Bill of Rights states what it CANNOT do.
Again, the 10th Amendment:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The proper question then is this: Where specifically, article and clause, does the constitution permit torture?
Cite it. Tell me where the Constitution says this - “the federal government is allowed to torture people”
you can’t, because it doesn’t. only if you “read between the lines” like the tryants in D.C. can you distort the law in such a way to allow torture.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:17 amIf a waterboard had been set up at the GOP debate and audience members used to show how it is done, then nobody would have cheered.
Comment by Jay Randal —
I think some would still have cheered. There are always some people into S&M, snuff movies, and the like.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:17 amOf course I would not “like” it, but if I had to crush my own testicles to save 300,000,000 Americans, I would do that too. Maybe you wimps will realize we are in a war when the terrorists finally kill someone you do love.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:18 am#49 - Comment by Immigration2008DotCom — May 16, 2007 @ 12:10 am
“…and of course TP is also putting words in Tancredo’s mouth vis-a-vis what Jack Bauer do.”
Tell me, Immigration2008DotCom, what do Jack Bauer do?
Dub-a$$ TROLL!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:18 amWaterboarding is supposedly not used as punishment but to get the captive to confess something. As even neoCON John McCain knows very well, people will sometimes to confess to anything just to get the torture (or in your mind, “procedureâ€) to end and that the quality of information garnered from such practices tends to be poor and also carries the risk of implicating a completely innocent person who is named while the waterboarding is going on.
I’ll leave that for interrogators to decide rather than a bunch of leftwinged ACLU radicals. If they feel it is unnecessary, they are certainly free to choose other forms of incarceration.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:18 amNot especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
Comment by m12
Waterboard comes before trial m12, do you see the problem? You m12 can be waterboarded.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:19 amJust one more bit of proof that this country has flushed itself down the fascist sewer. I find it beyond my comprehension that torture would even be considered, let a lone endorsed by major political figures.
God we are a sick country. This might do it. I might finally follow some of my smarter friends and renounce my citizenship and become an expatriate. I am that ashamed of this country.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:19 amRepublicans are truly evil. What a bunch of sick bastards. And here the Republicans claim to be the party of “values.”
May 16th, 2007 at 12:21 amsave 300,000,000 Americans, I would do that too. -Jake
I doubt that Jake. I have a hammer here that says your full of it.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:21 amPlease, PLEASE renounce your citizenship!!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:23 amWell Lora > if anyone cheered the waterboarding, then they would be next for the procedure.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:23 amFascism is but a bastard child the Authoritarians wish to turn a blind eye too.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:23 am#57
Punishment for withholding critical information, obviously.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:24 am#47: The U.S. Constitution states that all treaties signed by the United States are the supreme law of the land. The Geneva Conventions, which ban torture, were signed by the United States–thus the torture techniques banned by the Geneva Conventions are illegal, according to U.S. law.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:24 amThere is no greater love than to lay ones life down for his brothers and sisters in Christ.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:26 amNot especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
Comment by m12
I reiterate m12 waterboarding is not about punishment for a crime, it is to make you admit your a scapegoat. Man, under duress, will admit the most vile things to stop his torture.
Jake here will cry like a child and admit whatever you wish him, or you too.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:27 am#53 - Comment by Jay Randal — May 16, 2007 @ 12:14 am
“Best way to stop torture is to imagine it done to yourself.”
The problem is that to IMAGINE something, someone has to have an imagination!
Jake, the retarded Troll, is imagination-challenged. He HAS to be. Otherwise he wouldn’t be his notorious NeoCon butt-licking self. However, Jake IS enough of a sado-masochist to WANT his testicles crushed!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:27 amFor the record, 300,000,000 dead Americans would no longer care about either the Constitution or the Geneva Convention(s). Besides, the terrorists are not signatories to the Convention.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:27 amCom-n-sense #64- I agree. The first time this torture thing was reported I felt discouraged and ashamed for my country. I’m ready to go.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:28 am#53: If a waterboard had been set up at the GOP debate and audience members used to show how it is done, then nobody would have cheered.
I see no evidence that this is true. In fact, the more cruel, inhuman, and barbarous the behavior, the louder the Republican base seems to cheer. The more corrupt, hateful, and immoral their leaders are, the more Republicans seem to love them. Someone tell me if I’m wrong.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:29 amJake-living dishonorably is far worse than death, because as you know, sin is death. And torturing someone is sin.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:31 amFor the record, 300,000,000 dead Americans would no longer care about either the Constitution or the Geneva Convention(s). Besides, the terrorists are not signatories to the Convention. Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:27 am
For the record, if you adopt the practices of terrorists (torture), what did you save, you haven’t been *saved*. Jake*ss.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:31 amPunishment for withholding critical information, obviously.
Comment by m12 — May 16, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Idiot.
Hey ya’ll, I think m12 is withholding some critical information. I’m gonna report him to Homeland Security so we can find out for sure.
Do you see any flaw in this, m12? Nevermind that you probably are not withholding critical information — we don’t KNOW that, do we?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:32 amPunishment for withholding critical information, obviously.
Comment by m12 — May 16, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Once again. Unless the court decides you should be *punished*, then this is a st*pid post - wingnut. Where did you grow up Communist China? Your sense of what’s *punishment* is typical of you terrorist minded f*cks, that have more in common with Osama than America.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:33 amI almost responded to Jake’s comment in #21. Then I realized that that ignorant little high school dropout was just doing his retarded little “troll thing” - make an ABSURD comment in order to derail the topic of this thread:
Giuliani, Tancredo, and their cheering supporters ENDORSE torture!
The28%-ers ENDORSE TORTURE! Pass it on!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:33 amThere is no greater love than to lay ones life down for his brothers and sisters in Christ.
Comment by Jake
Please do that ASAP, Jake. Save your monstrous strawman!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:34 amAs I said, PLEASE renounce your citizenship at any foreign U.S. embassy forthwith — be sure to turn in your voter registration card as well.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:34 amhterrya > Some like Jake talk big, but once he is led to the torture chamber himself, then he would change his tune.
During the French Revolution the crowd would cheer as people had their heads cut off, but eventually it was not fun anymore when members of the crowd were seized to be decapitated.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:34 amre#55 greenback
I agree that stupid hypothetical has the same chances of occuring as a snowball in hell, but since it will be asked, a candidate should say:
If that is the case, I would simply break the torture law, try to extract the information, then turn myself in for breaking the torture law, plead extenuating circumstances, and the judge gives me community service instead of jal time.
See we can keep torture illegal, and handle your silly ridiculous never will happen in a zillion year hypothetical!
Does that mean we can use hypotheticals to skirt all the other laws we do not want to obey?
Can I be allowed to run stop signs, because I need to get people to the hospital?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:34 amlast best hope of Western civilisation and pushing for torture in the same sentence
It’s not hard to understand why America is so hated all around the world, even if you disagree.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:35 amrudy the death camp guard. tom the japanese prison guard in manchuria.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:36 amI hope that anyone that promotes torture gets to experience it firsthand. johnboy on the end, you know, the senior from AZ, he was tortured and it has warped his mind. what excuse do these fellows have?
Hey ya’ll, I think m12 is withholding some critical information. I’m gonna report him to Homeland Security so we can find out for sure.
According to m12 think he is all wise and must be waterboarded for truth!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:38 am#85 Excellent, Jay!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:38 amTorturing someone is not necessarily a sin — just as killing someone (self-defense, for instance) isn’t always a sin. The government is specifically authorized in Romans 13 to be God’s agent for His wrath. You people — you have no idea how to defend a nation.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:38 amAs I said, PLEASE renounce your citizenship at any foreign U.S. embassy forthwith — be sure to turn in your voter registration card as well.
Comment by Jake
Not a chance, Jakey. We’ll be here when you’re DEAD.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:38 amHey ya’ll, I think m12 is withholding some critical information. I’m gonna report him to Homeland Security so we can find out for sure.
Obviously, they only act on such information when it has a reasonable chance of being accurate. And if its not, better to find out in 5 minutes with waterboarding than leaving someone in a cell for days.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:40 amCareful, Zooey, or I will sick michael on you again.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:40 amAs I said, PLEASE renounce your citizenship at any foreign U.S. embassy forthwith — be sure to turn in your voter registration card as well.
Comment by Jake
Jake for waterboard!
Jake Fox news or some other network will soon do a reality show based on waterboards. Care to be the first contestant?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:41 amCareful, Zooey, or I will sick michael on you again.
Comment by Jake
Said Sybill the multi personality Jake.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:42 amleftcoast > thanks. Jake is being goofy for Karl Rove tonight.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:43 amCareful, Zooey, or I will sick michael on you again.
Comment by Jake
Jest you try it, Pal.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:44 am“torture is immoral. torture is disgusting. torture is illegal. torture engenders more hatred against us. torture ensures us that people will try to torture americans. the constitution doesn’t permit the government to engage in torture.
Comment by stopthecons — May 15, 2007″
You’re an idiot!
May 16th, 2007 at 12:45 amComment by m12 — May 16, 2007 @ 12:40 am
I think you are a drug dealer m12. Lets see how you fare.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:45 amThe Pitbull:
I fought the Koreans, son; I ain’t scared of you.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:46 am56: TP says this: Tancredo later added, “I’m looking for Jack Bauer,†referencing the television character who has used torture techniques such as suffocation and electrocution on prisoners.
That’s TP’s rendering of what “Jack Bauer” means. That doesn’t mean that’s what Tancredo means by “Jack Bauer”.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:46 amGo for it, michael . . .
May 16th, 2007 at 12:47 amNow michael in here too? There goes the TP thread.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:49 amAs I said, PLEASE renounce your citizenship at any foreign U.S. embassy forthwith — be sure to turn in your voter registration card as well. Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:34 am
How funny, that’s exactly how people feel about you Jake*ss. Unamerican Wingnuts like you that espouse *torture* are unfit for our country. You’re no different than Islamic terrorist that *justify* their torture and murder under the guise of their safety. Jake*ss, you are a terrorist.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:50 amYou’re an idiot!
Comment by michael — May 16, 2007 @ 12:45 am
You would be an expert, seeing as how you see one in the mirror every day.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:50 amGo for it, michael . . .
Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:47 am
The ignorant coward, encouraging the *dum* coward, it’s the special olympics of trolling.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:51 am>Article and section please, in the United States Constitution,
> where you think the government is
> prohibited from engaging in torture?
Jake, go back to pretending to be a Korean war veteran, and stop pretending to be a lawyer. You more natural in the role of deluded old coot.
You want article and section assh@le?
Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution.
“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.â€
Notice: ALL TREATIES MADE UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE UNITED STATES
ever heard of the “Geneva Conventions” moron? the Us is a signatory to that treaty… The Us signed in 1882.
Honestly, this has to rate up there right next to mighty hermpahodite venus asking about the combat experience of someone whose resume lists two purple hearts and a 3rd medal for valour in combat.
Besides, where in the consitution does it say that an embryo is any more of a human being than a tumour is? It doesnt. That doesnt stop your bible humping brethern from screaming about the immorality of “killing children”.
Why can’t we be morally outraged by anything either?
And honestly, the constitutionallity of torture is almost beside the point. Its just a bad idea. Its terrible PR on the world stage, and when it gets revealed, it serves as great propoganda/recruiting tools for our enemies. While obviously in some circumstances it does work, the “ticking time bomb” scenario is so rare as to make it an obsurdity to base law or morality around it.
If torture is illegal, but an agent acting on his own does it and it saves thousands of lives, is ANY jury going to find them guilty? No they arent.
Its called “jury nullification” jake, look it up sometime, it happens all the time and it would certainly happen in a case where the accused saved many lives by his act.
The REAL reason why these guys want to put torture on the books as being legal is so they can order it done to any captive, any time, make it standard policy, but not have to worry about future presidents or moral prosectuors filing criminal conspiracy charges against them for giving the orders.
Oh, and Jake, I’m sure you’re ok with other countries interrogating our soldiers using the same methods we condone, right? Even the special forces soldiers who dont always wear uniforms and thus don’t qualify for “prisoner of war” status were they to be captured?
Your ok with american troops being waterboarded, right?
May 16th, 2007 at 12:52 amI fought the Koreans, son; I ain’t scared of you.
Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:46 am
You mean, using that plagiarist bio that you got caught copying from? Liar.
You’ve only fought anyone on your X-Box, child.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:52 amfought the Koreans, son; I ain’t scared of you.
Comment by Jake
As if I am a Korean….
May 16th, 2007 at 12:52 amTorturing someone is not necessarily a sin — just as killing someone (self-defense, for instance) isn’t always a sin. The government is specifically authorized in Romans 13 to be God’s agent for His wrath. You people — you have no idea how to defend a nation. Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:38 am
You’re going to use the bible to justify your immorality? How *Osama* of you. He does the same thing.
It’s immoral when he does, it’s immoral when you do. You’re both immoral deranged terrorist - you ignorant hateful Jake*ss. You’re unfit to live in our country.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:53 amThat’s TP’s rendering of what “Jack Bauer†means. That doesn’t mean that’s what Tancredo means by “Jack Bauerâ€.
Comment by Immigration2008DotCom
Please do explain, you being a mind reader and close friend of Tancredo.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:54 amAccording to m12 think he is all wise and must be waterboarded for truth!
Comment by Zep — May 16, 2007 @ 12:38 am
I think you’re right. The sooner the better.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:55 amFor national security, of course.
There are plenty of specific PROHIBITIONS on the federal government in the Constitution — the word “torture†is not there (but neither is “abortion†— I can cite plenty of provision where “torture†is in the penumbra of powers granted, if you are admitting it is not prohibited. Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:07 am
But there is a word *synonym* in the dictionary - you should look it up Osama Ben Jake*ss. “Cruel and Unusual” is the very definition of “torture” - you deranged lunatic.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:56 amCareful, Zooey, or I will sick michael on you again.
Comment by Jake — May 16, 2007 @ 12:40 am
You’ve got me all scared now, Jakey. **shivering**
May 16th, 2007 at 12:57 amHow about you providing a cite to Dershowitz.
Meanwhile, check out the case law relating to the 5th and 8th Amendments.
And, the U.S. Constitution notwithstanding, the prohibition on torture is a jus cogens of international law. NO COUNTRY MAY LEGALIZE TORTURE and escape the condemnation of the international community, and an international tribunal for CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
The “ticking time-bomb” scenario is pure propaganda. It is designed to elicit a response driven by fear, and present a guaranteed way of resolving the problem, if only one acquiesces to the use of torture.
NOW for the real problem: once you put that forth, and a country, as its official policy endorses torture, that country becomes the target for those ticking time-bombs.
OPPRESSION BEGETS TERRORISM.
Indeed, oppression needs terrorism to survive, for terrorism provides the fear necessary to justify oppression.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:58 amThe government is specifically authorized in Romans 13 to be God’s agent for His wrath -Jake
Yet it was a Roman that killed Jesus.
May 16th, 2007 at 12:58 amI think you’re right. The sooner the better.
For national security, of course.
Comment by Zooey
I agree, someone with m12 intelligence and possible radical ideas must not be overlooked, in fact they must be scrutinized.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:00 am“Idiots applauding morons.
Sheep, one and all….
Comment by Zooey — May 15, 2007″
Really zooey? Care to explain?
May 16th, 2007 at 1:05 amI agree, someone with m12 intelligence and possible radical ideas must not be overlooked, in fact they must be scrutinized.
Comment by Zep
Is it possible that trolls such as m12 believe that being on the “correct” team will save them from this sort of thing?
May 16th, 2007 at 1:07 amReally zooey? Care to explain?
Comment by michael
Nope. Work it out for yourself.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:08 amGiuliani, Tancredo, and their cheering supporters ENDORSE torture!
The28%-ers ENDORSE TORTURE! Pass it on!
May 16th, 2007 at 1:12 amIs it possible that trolls such as m12 believe that being on the “correct†team will save them from this sort of thing?
Comment by Zooey
There are no correct teams, thus they, in my opine, will, and have, failed
May 16th, 2007 at 1:13 amJake comment: Torturing someone is not necessarily a sin — just as killing someone (self-defense, for instance) isn’t always a sin. The government is specifically authorized in Romans 13 to be God’s agent for His wrath.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:14 amThe authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves
Jake you are rebelling against the laws of the U.S.
Really zooey? Care to explain?
Comment by michael
I care michael, what today, in your view, is the current state of politics?
May 16th, 2007 at 1:15 amThere are no correct teams, thus they, in my opine, will, and have, failed
Comment by Zep
Yup. Well Zep, I’m outta here. Good luck with #125. Heh.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:19 amReally zooey? Care to explain?
Comment by michael — May 16, 2007 @ 1:05 am
Really michael? Care to grow some courage (b*lls)? Cowardly liar?
I heard Jake*ss is waiting to s*ck on them when they finally drop…
May 16th, 2007 at 1:22 am> Besides, the terrorists are not signatories to the Convention.
Uhmmm….are “terrorists” some sort of alien who has no nationality jake?
Dude.. you couldnt even sweep the floors at a law school.
please explain 2 things
1) Please explain how you know terrorists aren’t citizens of countries who signed the Geneva conventions.
furthermore
2) Please explain how you read the geneva convention to conclude that it protects only people from countries who sign it?
Where in Korea did you serve jake, and in what unit? Remember the names of any Koreans you served beside?
May 16th, 2007 at 1:23 ams it possible that trolls such as m12 believe that being on the “correct†team will save them from this sort of thing?
Comment by Zooey
The first effort is, of course, restoring balance to the house and congress.
This, from a neutral perspective, has been done.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:24 amYup. Well Zep, I’m outta here. Good luck with #125. Heh.
Comment by Zooey
Thanks Zooey.
I know I am a fool, but I am a great fool!
May 16th, 2007 at 1:26 amI believe that a congress divided produces the greatest result.
The congress and senate today are fairly equal in numbers and power. This is fairness.
I move on
The next object becomes, then, Judges who have political bias.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:31 amMay be time for mental health screening for all these guys.Just because they say they are running for some office they should not have a platform to advertise nonsense.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:47 amYes,free speech,but to make this type behavior plausable or even let torture enter into the dialog as acceptable……….well you can come to your own conclusion how “out there” that is.
Who are these people and who do they represent?What time in past present future are the addressing?
We need to solve the problems created in the last 7-8 years.Not be pouring gas on them.
I remember Goldwater talking about nuking Vietnam to finish that mess.He didn’t win. Gee
I am liberal, but this is very misleading. Giulani says anything but torture before he makes the comment quoted above. Rommney’s comments were far more disturbing.
May 16th, 2007 at 1:53 amThey have lost their minds, I have never met a so called Christian that was a better person than me…let me check that totals
1. Marrage bomb, I house husband for 2 years till he can pull it together (one of my rentals)
2. Same bomb, wife, (close friend) we take her into our household to pull it together while (sorta strange husband) pulls it together
3. Friend of daughter that is getting molested by Mothers boyfriend, I stop it and taken in her till she finishes high school.
4. Friend of daughter that is in an disfunctional household where the mother is having homeless people live with her, you would have to have seen it.
5. that same Friend that servered 3 years in Iraq that is discharged from Iraq with mental and adapation problems here, the wife and I give room and board while that Vet gets it together.
OK, all you so called Christian neocons, how are you suppporting the troops and your fellow man, yeah I thought so…I am a better Christian than any Christian that I have ever met….slam, dunk
And being Atheist that says alot, you guys ….welll…..suck
May 16th, 2007 at 1:58 amRon Paul is winning the debate poll
May 16th, 2007 at 2:04 amon worldnetdaily.com, msnbc, and the last I heard
the fox text message poll.
Giuliani said he would allow “every method [interrogators] could think of and I would support them in doing it.â€
Grist for another Greenwald column. Have pity on Glenn, folks, it’s hard work keeping on top of all the wingnuttery amongst the RWAs. Can’t you gove him a day of rest evey once in a while?
Giulinani needs to have his nuts put in a vise. Figuratively, of course.
Cheers,
May 16th, 2007 at 2:56 amTancretin: I’m look for Jack Bauer at that time, let me tell you. [applause] There is nothing — if you are talking about — I mean, we are the last best hope of Western Civilization.
We’re doomed. “Last, best hope” is relying on Hollywood fiction to save us.
FWIW, I disposed of the ridiculous “24″ hypothetical ‘justification’ here.
Cheers,
May 16th, 2007 at 3:09 am#38 m12:
[Lora]: So are you willing to undergo it to demonstrate your claim, m12?
Not especially. It’s certainly unpleasant, but punishment is supposed to be.
Oh. So it’s “punishment”. Better huddle up with “Jake” over there, cuz he says that the Constitooshun doesn’t prohibit torture, much less waterboarding (which everyone is trying to say is not “torture”), and the Eighth Amendment prohibits “cruel and unusual punishment“.
Cheers,
May 16th, 2007 at 3:17 amCare to explain?
Comment by michael
mikey, can’t you ever figure out things by yourself? Why do you always have to sound like the dunce you undoubtedly were in the private schools you boast about attending? BTW, I am still waiting for you to tell me what illustrious people were produced by your supposedly “superior” private high school. Still no answer after nearly three months, mikey.
May 16th, 2007 at 3:22 am#96 Zep:
Said Sybill the multi personality Jake.
Said Sybill, Jake’s spooge-encrusted sock puppet. Just to be clear about it.
Cheers,
May 16th, 2007 at 3:30 amIt’s always the fundamentalist wingnut christians who cheer for torture. And extra-special, superdocious interrogation or whatever euphemism these poltroons are now using.
Anything but saying what is: The US is no longer fit to represent any principles of democracy. It has deep sixed habeas corpus, it has repudiated the Geneva Convention, it has circumvented constitutional safeguards in the name of “security,” and it has no problem rendering people to other countries, to be tortured in other prisons.
How is it more secure? It’s more secure for those in charge. Outside of America, the last remaining legal bounds are severed.
May 16th, 2007 at 3:39 amWow. Scary.
May 16th, 2007 at 3:58 amWhy do I feel as if I am in Salem, Mass.?
May 16th, 2007 at 3:59 amStrange how many of you are advocating the exact behavior you’re condemning these candidates for.
They were asked what should be done to people who — hypothetically — have killed thousands of Americans, and who — hypothetically — know the details about imminent plans to kill possibly millions more. The candidates said — hypothetically — do what you have to to prevent the murderers from doing more.
And here, the cries are “How dare they torture murderers! Torture THESE men and see how they like it!” Such hypocrisy on the part of you commenters. You say it’s immoral to torture people who murder innocent men, women, and children, and to show your superior morality, you suggest we torture the people trying to prevent the murders.
Of course, leaving out the hypothetical part of the question that they’re responding to gives the impression that they’re just saying they can’t wait to torture somebody. But I shouldn’t expect anyone who can’t think critically about their OWN statements to actually delve beneath the surface of what someone else tells them about the debate.
May 16th, 2007 at 4:02 am>Eighth Amendment prohibits “cruel and unusual punishment“.
right.. duh on me for not pointing that out to dear jake as well.. and no trolls, there nothing in the constitution that says it only protects american citizens. and one of the trolls here already admitted its “punishment” so the “cruel and unusual” clause applies. some will argue, like rumsfeld…”we’re not imprisoning (or torturing them) for punishment, we’re doing it for interrogation…..” but that dog don’t hunt.
If you could get around amendments by ignoring thier plain meaning and just giving the government action in question a different title, the constitution would be meanignless. It would be like the government deciding to rename searches, instead calling them “scans” and say… we’re not searching you, we’re just “scanning” you, so the 4th doesnt apply….
Soooo between the 8th amendment, and probably multiple treaties that the united states has signed, im pretty sure every possible avenue to legitimize torture has been ruled out. Again, if its a ticking nuke, let the agents break the law… if charges are even brought in such a case, a jury will almost certainly aquit them if they truly saved many lives. Real “heroes” having nothing to fear from anti-torture laws, the only people who do are those high level officials who want to inplement a policy of “torture first, ask questions later”.
May 16th, 2007 at 4:19 amRon Paul was the only true American up there. The rest would do well as leaders of some fundamentalist organizaion.
May 16th, 2007 at 4:26 am> Of course, leaving out the hypothetical part of the question
> -agent jake
the hypothetical “ticking nuke” situation is unlikely almost to the point of absurdity, and everyone who understands concepts like “implying” knows these candidates were making broader statements than just about this one very implausible scenario. NONE of them who advocated torture in this scenario, and correct me if I missed something, made any qualifying statements about how torture or waterboarding should only be used “exceedingly sparingly” “almost never” or “only when there is the need to stop an imminent mass casualty attack”
The israelis have a law that if the toururer can prove information gained from torture saved lived or prevented an imminent attack, he’s got immunity. If he cant show that, hes going to be charged. While Im opposed to torture, I think such a law goes along way toward preventing abuse, because let me tell you, the average “we need to torture them to get info” situation doesnt involve nukes, its involves , say, a guy who claims to be a journalist filming the aftermath of an explosion in iraq. Is he a journalist or an insurgent? In these “iffy” situations, torture should be ruled out. But lets be honest, Guiliani etc are bloodthristy sociopaths who blame all arabs for what happened on 9-11, so we all know that he’d extend his torture policy FAR beyond the “ticking nuke” situation he directly addressed and create a “torture first then ask ask questions” policy. Again, we all know you people want to ignore the implications people make with their statements, but they are going to make them nonetheless, and inbred flaghumping mouthbreathers like yourself and the debate crowd are going to keep eating it up and using flaccid claims of literalism to try and defend them.
Let me give you an almost equally absurd scenario.. you mother is infected with a rabies like virus that has irrevocably destroyed her higher congnitive abilties and essentially transformed her into a ravenous rabid killing machine immune to pain who can only be stopped by destruction of her brain. She is coming at you and the rest of your family with a butcher knife frothing at the lips. You have a loaded pistol with one bullet. Do you put the bullet between your mothers eyes?
Now most people would respond to this very unlikely hypothetical by saying “I would kill my mother only if I had no other choice, but I would never do it if I had any other option to protect my family”….
sociopaths like you, when asked the same question, would just say “hell yeah I’d blow my mom away”.
people like that are pretty frightening….
May 16th, 2007 at 4:42 am“When we go under, Western Civilisation goes under”
You’re damn straight!
I love that quote, except he should have said IF we go under…
I’m from Australia and about 3% of people here are anti-America, because they don’t understand and appreciate the value that the USA has brought to human existence and potential.
For the rest of us, we’re with you guys!
Viva la progress!
Cheers
Dan
The Modern Man, Naturally Attract Women
May 16th, 2007 at 5:18 amLike it matters what Aussies think.
May 16th, 2007 at 6:40 amWaterboard Goodling.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:07 amIt’s always the fundamentalist wingnut christians who cheer for torture
Comment by crescentdave
Its not an accident. These people are sheep. And Jerry Falwell led them to this dark place.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:19 amTHE WORLD DONT NEED THIS SHIT JUST CHANGE YOUR FOREIGN POLICY
May 16th, 2007 at 7:28 amThis hypothetical question uses a push polling tactic to induce fear in the audience and promote waterboarding. If they really want to go there, they’d have asked a candidate to volunteer for waterboarding, waterboard him, and then ask him the question. That would be fair.
- Tom
May 16th, 2007 at 7:32 amRudy.
Your a loser.
New Yorkers hated your guts for most of your 2 terms as mayor. I should know. I am one.
You failed to establish terrorist protections for NYCity throughout the 90’s as required by the 93′ bombing commission.
You failed to co-ordinate between the police and fire depts for all of the 90’s as required also by the commission.
You attacked coffee vendors,frankfurter vendors,street vendors.
You squelched civil liberties and were positively loathsome to the press.
You left New York with tens of BILLIONS in debt while whoring city real estate to anti-union and anti labor businesses.
Before 9/11 you were parceling out WTC property to your crony fuck sponsors in real estate.
Your a pathetic joke Rudy and when the truth starts coming out in the next few months about your wretched tenure as NY mayor and the hocus pocus of 9/11 from FOX cameras, then they will laugh and
roll their eyes- will realize what a complete fuckin waste of time you are.
Just read WAYNE BARRETT’S superb book,Grand Illusion, on Rudy’s craven incompetance leading up to 9/11. A primer for everyone outside New York who isn’t fully aware of Rudy’s shitty boilerplate temperment and politics.
Better yet, dig up Bob Herbert’s utterly revealing pieces on Giuliani from the 90’s.
Jimmy Breslin calls him a “loser”. You can look this up easy enuf-I just don’t have the link……
May 16th, 2007 at 7:41 amTough talking white men. I’ll feel so much safer with one of them leading the country. It’s right up there with Bush’s “dead or alive” threat.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:56 amJesus said:
I think you missed something. Trancedo made specific reference to the absurd hypo in his answer.
In typical Hume fashion, the question and its answers told us nothing and left us to read into them what we want. Simply because waterboarding might be justified in some highly unlikely scenario that Brit Hume can conjure up in his imagination revelas nothing about these candidates.
More important, and I say this as a big fan of Think Progress, this clip is deceptive. Assume what you want about Gulianni and Trancedo, but this clip was meant to imply that they both generally support waterboarding when in fact they were responding to a specific scenario. They may think waterboarding is ok — I have no idea — but this clip says nothing about that.
May 16th, 2007 at 8:47 am**
Goodbye, Giuliani. Looks like you can go back to wearing dresses and living with gay couples.
**
May 16th, 2007 at 8:51 amAltough I know it’s a common saying in the English language, when you mention the Spanish Inquisition as the paradigm of torture and prosecution of other religions and cultures, think of it for a bit:
First, the Inquisition wasn’t invented at Spain.
Second, there were a series of countries that had Inquisition organizations. And not only the mediterranean “hot blooded” ones, as you can think, but “cool blooded” nordic countries like Switzerland, Germany or France.
Wars of religion ravaged the whole Europe (including the modern United Kingdom, not su united then), don’t fool yourselves. Heressies and religion wars existed everywhere. Torture and killings were somewhat common.
And, expelling jews was also a very common action in all Europe. They were the perfect strawman to deflect the guilt from economic blunders for incompetent kings and greedy nobles.
Look, I’m not defending the Inquisition or the torture, but simply using always the Spanish Inquisition helps to distort the whole picture of what happened then in Europe. The Spanish were not devils, and the rest of the countries weren’t saints either.
And, well, it’s a bit hypocrite to cite the Spanish Inquisition, and forget to add the Salem’s ‘Witches’ judgements, a lot closer to the way of thinking (and judging) and to the land of the USA.
For more information, check my signature.
Thanks.
May 16th, 2007 at 8:53 amWhy don’t we waterboard THEM to see if they would approve of it afterwards, hmm???
May 16th, 2007 at 8:55 amThe “pro-torture” political party is dragging our nation away from the community of civilized countries. Don’t these ambitious dolts realize they are marginalizing themselves?
This immoral and uncivilized party platform on torture comes to you courtesy of Jerry Fallwell’s (im)Moral Majority and the host of neoconmen and women who have corrupted our system of government.
2008 cannot come soon enough-we need to save not just our democracy from these morons, but because of our weapons, we need to save the world from these morons!
May 16th, 2007 at 9:00 amThere are some sick, sick people out there. These neanderthals almost make it embarrassing to be a caucasian. We