Hoagland: Bush’s ‘Plan B’ May Be Attacking Iran, Overthrowing Maliki
Hoagland: Bush’s ‘Plan B’ May Be Attacking Iran, Overthrowing Maliki
During a private White House meeting earlier this year, President Bush and Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace were asked by a group of governors about their backup plan for Iraq. “The conclusion they took away, the governors later said, was that there is no Plan B.” Pace reportedly told them, “Plan B was to make Plan A work.”
But according to conservative Washington Post columnist Jim Hoagland, Plan B may be something far more dramatic: “Using Iraq as a springboard and rationale for an American military strike into Iran,” and “strong-arming the admittedly faltering government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki out of office and replacing Maliki with a U.S.-anointed Iraqi savior.”
Hoagland writes:
Arab allies are urging such a course on Bush and would not object to U.S. military action against Iran. There is growing concern in Baghdad that Washington is developing a “Plan B” that involves both hitting Iran and ousting Maliki — who ironically was brought to office by American pressure to force out Ibrahim al-Jafari, Maliki’s predecessor. The concern is augmented by demands from both sides of the aisle in Congress that Maliki meet obviously unrealistic benchmarks quickly or face a cutoff of U.S. support.
Hoagland says such a plan would only “expand the current disaster,” and CentCom Commander Gen. Admiral William Fallon reportedly “expressed strong opposition in February to an administration plan to increase the number of carrier strike groups in the Persian Gulf from two to three and vowed privately there would be no war against Iran as long as he was chief of CENTCOM.”
But the administration continues to rattle its sabers, most recently when Vice President Dick Cheney “used the deck of an American aircraft carrier just 150 miles off Iran’s coast as the backdrop…to warn the country that the United States was prepared to use its naval power to keep Tehran from disrupting off oil routes or ‘gaining nuclear weapons and dominating this region.’”
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And a week after Cheney’s dramatic flight deck announcement, the administration asks Iran to join them to discuss Iraq’s security situation. Iran originally agrees to, but some state-run news papers are now saying the talks aren’t happening.
The admin. doesn’t know what it’s doing. It has no strategic plan. They’re shooting from the hip. Same as it ever was.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:01 pmInstead of rattling their sabers, would chymp & darth please just fall on them.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:03 pmWe are so screwed. The boy king will attack Iran and then when our carrier groups are buring in the golf he’ll declare a national emergency making himself dictator.
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2169
May 20th, 2007 at 2:04 pmThe Dems need to stop playing games and get us out of there!
May 20th, 2007 at 2:05 pmBush’s ‘Plan B’ May Be Attacking Iran,
May 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pmThis could mean we’re getting close to the end of this madness. This hope is based on the assumption that the 2000 election was ‘Plan Z’
God help us all if this happens. I am not optimistc.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:08 pmIs plan B designed by the lunatics that gave us plan A? Where will all the refugees go, perhaps to the US, to kill all of us?
Let’s get the neo-Nazis back in the box before we all turn into the Flinstones.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:09 pmThe Republicans speak on Plan B in Iraq:
“By the time we get to September or October, members are going to want to know how well this is working, and if it isn’t, what’s Plan B.”
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), May 6, 2007.
“I have no Plan B.”
John McCain, on his support for the Iraq surge, April 13, 2007.
“Plan B was to make Plan A work.”
Joint Chiefs Chairman General Peter Pace, on Iraq, March 5, 2007.
“I don’t think you go to Plan B. You work with Plan A.”
May 20th, 2007 at 2:09 pmSecretary of State Rice, asked what the U.S. should do if the Iraqi government does not live up to its assurances, March 5, 2007.
Using Iraq as a springboard and rationale for an American military strike into Iran,†and “strong-arming the admittedly faltering government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki out of office and replacing Maliki with a U.S.-anointed Iraqi savior.â€
Someone remarkably like Saddam Hussein. And when it happens, the wingnuts will do another 180, and support “a stong hand” in Iraq who does away with their failed experiment in democracy. All this sabre-rattling has been done before, when Reagan sold weapons to the Iranians. Are we again going to sell them weapons? It wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:13 pmI knew it
first Maliki has been playing the Carrot and Stick on Bush
The Carrot was Oil and the Stick was troop loses
lets face it Bush has been outfoxed on behalf of Iran
May 20th, 2007 at 2:16 pmIts Admiral Fallon not General.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmOutcome of Iran-U.S. talks depends on Washington’s goodwill
http://www.tehrantimes.com/
However, before entering negotiations, Tehran should make sure that the U.S. really wants to resolve its problems with Iran and is not just trying to further complicate the situation, he added.
EVEN IRAN KNOWS THE BUSH GAMEPLAN
May 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmWe need to rid ourselves of BushCo. What more incentive do we need?
May 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmBrought to you by Northrop, Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmCall me cynical. The reason why we’d get rid of Maliki is his inability to get parliament to sign off on the oil bill. I don’t blame parliament for stalling. The bill benefits international corporations more than the Iraqi people and signing the bill is as good as signing your death warrant. That bill is THE benchmark.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pmi think o’reilly could be the strongman type the administration needs. he sure talks a good game about running the place like saddam did. maybe when he cleans up iraq, he can come back to the usa and become a school principal, since he seems to know so much about that, too.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:21 pm“replacing Maliki with a U.S.-anointed Iraqi savior.†- - Well sure, now that Wolfie’s going to be available.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:22 pmI think the only thing that stops this if Admiral Fallon digs in his heels and figures out someway to prevent this. As the Cent-Com Commander its his job to excecute the Warplan if (God help us) it happens again.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:23 pmIt is time to remove these evil bastards from power. We should never have allowed the Supreme Court to appoint this drunk who follows the orders of KKKarl Rove and the neo-conservative fascists in the GOP. There is nothing honorable about the Bush Crime Family. Congress should look at every alternative to remove this evil empire before it is too late. Dubya Bush and his crime family are the worst thing to ever happen to this great nation.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:28 pmDoes anyone seriously believe that GWB will leave the White House, not with a bang but a whimper?
He is going down in history as the worst president and the worst administration ever. He leaves no positive legacy behind for America - just a military quagmire, a drowned city and diminished stature on the international stage.
How can anyone who has watched this man and his minions for the last seven years not believe he will attempt a hail-mary pass as the clock runs down on his failed presidency…no matter how dangerous, ill-advised, or unlikely to succeed that attempt might be.
Bush is less like a lame duck and more like a wounded animal. And since, from Bush’ perspective, there is currently no escape from public and political ignominy, he will have to do something - and that something will have to be substantial enough to be utterly transformative of the current geopolitical landscape.
The Iraqi bases, the disinformation about the Iranian nuclear program, the carriers in the Gulf, the current blaming of Iran, and the longstanding meddling in Iran (back to 1953), all point towards a very real risk of an aggressive action. The American press and polity need to pay the price of freedom and be eternally vigilant.
The only hope, I fear, is that the military will refuse its orders from its own Commander In Chief.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:29 pmPerhaps the good Admiral could re-target the on board missiles to hit the Green Zone, seeing as how the White House is out of range.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:31 pmheres some news - Iraq
1/ GORDON Brown will remove all British forces from Iraq before the next election under a plan to rebuild support among disillusioned Labour voters.
Scotland on Sunday can reveal the Prime Minister elect is working on a withdrawal plan that could see troop numbers slashed from 7,000 to as few as 2,000 within 12 months.
2/ With 3,000 centrifuges, all running smoothly, Iran had managed to speed up some centrifuges and was beginning enrichment at an industrial level.
3/At much the same time in Baghdad, 144 members of Parliament — out of a total of 275 — signed a petition calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. The petition is now being developed into a draft bill by the legal and foreign affairs committees of the Iraqi Parliament.
4/ NATO secretary general Jaap de Hoop Scheffer visits President George W. Bush at his Texas ranch on May 20-21. The message de Hoop Scheffer has to convey is sombre: NATO is losing the war against the Taliban. A fundamental policy review is urgently needed.
On May 8, the Senate in Kabul approved a bill that called for negotiations with the Taliban, a ceasefire, and a date for the withdrawal of foreign troops. The proposed legislation demands that foreign forces should not engage the Taliban unless they are themselves attacked or have first consulted with the Afghan army, police and government.
5/ Afghan soldiers mass on border, ready and willing to take on old foe Pakistan, Since Sunday evening there has been a build-up of forces in the contested zone as hundreds of regular Afghan soldiers from the 203rd “Thunder†Corps, who had been fighting the Taleban, have deployed to the area to reinforce the beleaguered border police, bringing with them heavy artillery sent up from Kabul. “We can’t wait any more,†Brigadier Sanaoull Haq, a staff officer in the corps
May 20th, 2007 at 2:36 pmAnd As for the OIL LAW - HA HA
IFOU calls off strike after consensions from Maliki
After meeting with Prime Minister Maliki, the Iraqi Federation of Oil Unions has called off the strike which it had threatened to begin on the 21 May. Apparently the Prime Minister agreed to most of the Union’s demands, including its request to be consulted on the oil law. The details of the deal are not yet available, but will be posted here when they are. The final list of demands that were presented to Maliki are given below in the Union’s communique of 5 May.
IF YOUR INTERESTED IN THE DEMANDS READ THEM HERE
http://www.handsoffiraqioil.org/
Demand 16- Medical examination and treatment for oil sector employees [some missing words], especially those inhabiting areas targeted with depleted uranium ordnance during the latest bouts of war and those afflicted by chronic cancerous diseases, and paying for the treatment whether in this country or abroad.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:41 pmW and Deadeye Dick’s buddies in Saudi Arabia (and Big Oil) must be absolutely salivating over the increased riches they would enjoy under such a scenario (less supply = higher prices). Apparently, the reduced production achieved by the invasion and ongoing occupation of Iraq hasn’t raised gasoline prices far enough. And think of the windfall that is waiting for Cheney as long as Helliburton’s (sp) stock continues to increase in value. A 2003 article in the Arizona Star, stated, in part, “…the vice president has some 433,000 shares of unexercised Halliburton stock options, due to expire between 2007 and late 2009. Cheney has said he will donate the options to charities. But the options will have value only if Halliburton’s stock price improves.” What are the odds that his intended charity is himself?
May 20th, 2007 at 2:43 pmDamn…here we go again.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pmLets face it America invaded Iraq to control world Oil prices if you own 25 trillions worth in Iraq and sell their Oil cheap , Saudi and Iran also would have to sell cheaply, the Bush plan was to keep prices low till Oil runs out, therefore denying Muslims of $100 Trillion at todays prices
May 20th, 2007 at 2:53 pmOh but you are leaving Iraq its just a case of when . permanent military bases are useless really . One Anthraz Mortar round into a base and you’ll have to leave for the next 50 years quite simply put
America will leave Iraq
May 20th, 2007 at 2:53 pmAmerica wants to leave Iraq
America cant leave Iraq
Tobey Tall,
You are saying that this was the biggest blunder ever for US foriegn policy. We should never have gone in as we did. How many more Americans must die? Who will be the last to die in this mis-adventure of the drunk in the White House and the evil neo-conservative fascists? This was a big mistake and there is not answer. It is time to leave.
May 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pmDAMN TP!
…why is it that every time a comment is posted about the U.S.’ incessant support for Israel…
…and the imminent attempt by the U.S. and Israel todominate the ME…
…the post get’s posted…then stricken…then when one attempts to post it again…
…the old “duplicate comment” error message comes up?
…If it’s a “DUPLICATE message” then where the hell is it?
May 20th, 2007 at 3:02 pmHow about you Liberal nay-sayers just let them conduct this endless war for 4 more years, hell possibly even 20.
We need to branch this thing out across the entire Middle East so they all want to kill us!
Hell, let’s invade and occupy Mexico, Canada, all of North and South America while we’re at it!
They hate us for our freedom and overpriced developing third world rate medical system, not us occupying and killing them and their families.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:02 pmThe Islamic fundamentalists who control Saudia Arabia and the “Christian” fundamentalists who a running amok in Washington, D.C. most assuredly understand each other exceedingly well.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:07 pmHoagland has the credibility of “Niger yellow cake.” There are credible reports that the new Centcom guy, Admiral Fallon, has given a definite thumbs down on Iran. Says it won’t happen on his watch. He overruled Cheny on a third carrier in the Gulf so I’m inclined to think this report by Hoagland is like most of the rest of his tripe and hyperbole.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:08 pmThe gist of my stricken post was simply this…
…we’re NEVER leaving Iraq…
…and NO Democrat or Repulsivescum is going to say that…
…but the new (verrry expensive) U.S. embassy and military base in Iraq…
…and L’il dick Cheney’sTWO recent visits to Saudi Arabia…
…are proof positive…
May 20th, 2007 at 3:08 pm…but the new (verrry expensive) U.S. embassy and military base in Iraq…
Comment by big papa
104 acre, $592 million, 20 buildings and 1,000 people staff. I guess thats what you need to deliver freedom and democracy.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:13 pmFortunately for Bush, the Democrats will do nothing to stop him.
May 20th, 2007 at 3:15 pmYou are saying that this was the biggest blunder ever for US foriegn
this is not US Foreign policy - this war is about Neocons trying to control Oil prices by stealing Iraqs and keeping prices low for the next 50 years
as to rip the Middle east of about $150 Trillions worth at least at todays prices the real value is priceless as Oil reserves dwindleand prices go even Higher
Bush dont want renewable enegy he needs to keep America being dependent on Oil for the fear factor ?????????
As where the rest of the world is preparing for greener energies
Scotland by 2020 will be 100% renewable energies
May 20th, 2007 at 3:16 pmthe UK by 2050 under brown are aiming at 50 % renewable energy
Hell, let’s invade and occupy Mexico, Canada, all of North and South America while we’re at it!
Comment by Deniz Yeter — May 20, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Look on the bright side. You’ve already had a shot at Chile, Panama, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, El Salvador, Guatemala, Grenada…and you tried to invade Canada in 1812.
Invasions”R”U.S.â„¢
With all that experience, how badly could a hemispheric invasion go?
May 20th, 2007 at 3:20 pm#31 hit the nail on the head! For those of you that haven’t figured it out yet, Bush’s war against Iraq is just a piece of Bush, and the far Christian right’s 21st century “Crusade” against Muslims. Furthermore, as a recent pole showed, 25% of Americans (and you can bet your life they are all far Christian right nut jobs) believe armageden will occur in the next 12 months. Why do you think that is? Do you think maybe in all their secret meetings with Bush they have been assured by Bush that he will facilitate that happening? These people, including Bush, are INSANE, and they are playing with the potential end of this world, including the human race. It is time for Congress too put an end too this madness before it is too late! Bush, and the rest of his lunatic administration MUST be mass impeached, and it MUST be done NOW, BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!
May 20th, 2007 at 3:22 pmI aggree Bush wants to kill at least 4.5 billion of the 5 billion on the planet with a devastating human virus probably , leaving the people running the earth with plenty fuel and practically no CO2 emmisions for millions of years
Bush must be shot Now never mind Impeached ,
May 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pmComment by curmudgeon #31
…and don’t forget that OTHER fundamentalist group…
…which shall remain nameless so this post can make it on the thread…
…without being censored…
May 20th, 2007 at 3:28 pmThe US has refused to sign Conventions against the development and use of chemical and biological weapons, and has either used or tested (without informing the civilian populations) these weapons in the following locations abroad:
May 20th, 2007 at 3:32 pmBahamas (late 1940s–mid-1950s)
Canada (1953)
China and Korea (1950–53)
Korea (1967–69)
Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia (1961–1970)
Panama (1940s–1990s)
Cuba (1962, 69, 70, 71, 81, 96)
And the US has tested such weapons on US civilian populations, without their knowledge, in the following locations:
May 20th, 2007 at 3:34 pmWatertown, NY and US Virgin Islands (1950)
SF Bay Area (1950, 1957–67)
Minneapolis (1953)
St. Louis (1953)
Washington, DC Area (1953, 1967)
Florida (1955)
Savannah GA/Avon Park, FL (1956–58)
New York City (1956, 1966)
Chicago (1960)
Just keeps getting better and better, doesn’t it?
May 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pmHey Freaked Out Canadian, can my family and I live with you while I apply for political asylum if this goes down?
May 20th, 2007 at 3:51 pmPlus
Iran, April 2003 — hit by US missiles during bombing of Iraq, killing at least one persdon {2}
Pakistan, 2002-03 — bombed by US planes several times as part of combat against the Taliban and other opponents of the US occupation of Afghanistan {3}
China, 1999 — its heavily bombed embassy in Belgrade is legally Chinese territory, and it appears rather certain that the bombing was no accident (see chapter 25)
France, 1986 — After the French government refused the use of its air space to US warplanes headed for a bombing raid on Libya, the planes were forced to take another, longer route; when they reached Libya they bombed so close to the French embassy that the building was damaged and all communication links knocked out.{4}
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1985 — A bomb dropped by a police helicopter burned down an entire block, some 60 homes destroyed, 11 dead, including several small children. The police, the mayor’s office, and the FBI were all involved in this effort to evict a black organization called MOVE from the house they lived in.
May 20th, 2007 at 4:42 pmIt’s become a commonplace to accuse the United States of choosing as its bombing targets only people of color, those of the Third World, or Muslims. But it must be remembered that one of the most sustained and ferocious American bombing campaigns was carried out against the people of the former Yugoslavia — white, European, Christians. The United States is an equal-opportunity bomber. The only qualifications for a country to become a target are: (1) It poses a sufficient obstacle to the desires of the American Empire; (2) It is virtually defenseless against aerial attack.
May 20th, 2007 at 4:42 pmMadrid, Brussels, London, Berlin, Paris, Rome, and Vienna may well be off-limits to U.S. members of Congress soon. Just as well: they will still be able to enjoy pleasant summer breaks in Crawford, Texas, or Jackson Hole, Wyo., in the best of companies [1], [2]. That’s certainly preferable to ending up in a European jail for a very long time.
Every one of the 535 members of the 110th Congress is liable to face criminal indictment from the International Criminal Court in de Hague if the U.S. uses nuclear weapons in the impending conflict with Iran.
Following an indictment, every country that is a State Party to the International Criminal Court (ICC) will be required to take into custody any members of Congress that are temporarily on their soil and surrender them to the Court. None of the Western European State Parties to the ICC have signed bilateral “Article 98 agreements” with the United States that would give immunity to U.S. citizens.
The reasons why members of Congress are liable to face criminal indictment by the ICC in the aftermath of a U.S. nuclear attack on Iran are:
The crimes will be in the category of “most serious crimes of international concern”;
May 20th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe U.S. Congress funded the creation of the weapons to commit the crimes, and paid the salaries of the servicemembers that pushed the buttons;
The U.S. Congress was aware that conditions were such that the crimes could occur in the ordinary course of events;
The U.S. Congress had the authority and ability to prevent the crimes from occurring, and failed to take reasonable measures within its power to do so;
At least some members of Congress actively aided, abetted and assisted in the commission of the crimes.
Congress has the constitutional power to legislate under which conditions nuclear weapons, the most terrible weapons created by mankind, will be used in military operations. By funding the research, development and manufacture of these weapons, at the rate of over 6 billion dollars per year, and handing them over to the Executive without putting any restriction on their use, members of Congress have made themselves liable for crimes that may be committed with “their” weapons. And there is the aggravating circumstance that the Executive announced to Congress that it would use nuclear weapons under conditions constituting serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in armed conflict, and that Congress knew that such conditions were very likely to occur.
NO VIOLENCE TOBY! That’s the point here. We are a nation of laws, and this president, and his administration don’t respect, and adhere too these laws. Therefore, they should be dealt with within the confines of the laws our country is built on! Again, NO VIOLENCE!
May 20th, 2007 at 5:03 pmone of the most sustained and ferocious American bombing campaigns was carried out against the people of the former Yugoslavia — white, European, Christians.
Comment by Tobey Tall #46
Sorry Tobey…
I smell a little revisionist history in your post…
…those white, “Christians” were committing genocide…
…and the world community was all for stopping them…
…or did you forget that Newsweek cover shot…
… of the murdered Muslim baby and its mother (and others)…
…lying in the ditch?
May 20th, 2007 at 5:04 pmRemove the evili empire of the Bush Crime Family anyway we can. Save America and impeach the Chimp.
May 20th, 2007 at 5:23 pmComment by Tobey Tall #47
Great comeback Tobey…
…it stands to reason that if the driver of a vehicle in the commission of a felony crime…
…is also charged with a felony…
…especially if someone dies…
…then the Congress (and President, VP et al.) should likewise be held…
…criminally liable for violations of international law…
…and I for one would LOVE to see Bushiva and L’il Dick et al. in chains at the Hague…
…after we’ve taken all of THEIR and their FAMILIES’/cronies’…
…personal/business assets…
…to help defray the costs ofthis illegal invasion and occupation of course…
May 20th, 2007 at 5:50 pmThe hell with trials anywhere…just HANG THEM all….ask questions later.
May 20th, 2007 at 6:49 pmHey Freaked Out Canadian, can my family and I live with you while I apply for political asylum if this goes down?
Comment by RUCerious — May 20, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
The more the merrier RUCerious. We’ll buy a farm and set up a commune. And, oddly, I am only half-joking (I suppose I’m HAFCerious).
When I was in high school, a big chunk of my teachers were consciencious objectors to the Vietnam War. Those fleeing the war had a big impact - more than they probably know - on the development of contemporary Canadian society, just as the United Empire Loyalists did in the late 18th Century.
To be honest, as an outsider, I am encouraged by the resurgence in liberal outrage and confidence in the last year or two. What was once the exclusive province of Russ Feingold, is now the platform of most Democratic presidential candidates. And Ron Paul is giving voice to misgivings that even liberal democrats were loath to voice publically only a few short months ago.
What’s needed now, is a unified, sustained and public enough repudiation of Bush and his policies that it becomes utterly unacceptable - even for the generals - to follow the President and his neo-con cabal into another war. The flirtation with fascism and authoritarianism has not only to be defeated, but confronted, exposed, and utterly discredited.
The performance of the Republican candidates - their belligerent support of war, violence, fear and torture - should make it painfully apparent that the reactionary rump of American politics is not going to go quietly into the night.
May 20th, 2007 at 7:40 pm#22 - totally irrelevant to any discussion about Iran except for the fact that this may be used as ammo in the infowar waged by Cheney and gang.
It doesn’t matter how many centrifuges are going. What matters wrt to weapons is the enrichment level. For Iran to get away with enriching to weapons grade they’d have to kick out the IAEA. They’d have to go against their Grand Ayatollah’s fatwa against nuclear weapons. etc etc.
May 20th, 2007 at 8:19 pmWhat makes you think this is a change of plans? This goes right along with their original plans. They always intended to attack the majority of the middle east, they just thought they would be further along than this by now. Got themselves bogged down in Iraq, when they thought they would be through Iran and on to Syria by now.
Don’t kid yourself, this is still their plan from before they got into office. Go back to that original document where they all declare their intentions to break international law by invading Iraq. This was their intention all along, and if you look back, W first started talking about Iran a LONG time ago. This is NOTHING new.
May 20th, 2007 at 8:59 pmYup, there’s the answer… fix the problems you caused illegally invading one country by… uh, invading another country!
May 20th, 2007 at 10:29 pm# 55 Comment by WJM — May 20, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
“What makes you think this is a change of plans?”
Hey, you stole my post!
Your post is exactly right. It is so obvious nobody can see it. There is only Plan A. All talk about Plan B is simply a furtherance of Plan A.
As you said:
“…this is still their plan from before they got into office.”
Look into PNAC folks!
Plan A is to control the Middle East, because by controlling the energy resources of the world, you bring the world to its knees. The whole world kneels before the US God. If they don’t, they can’t grow economically or in any way function. The world runs on oil!
This is about using oil to create the American Empire with the neo-cons firmly in control!
#36 Comment by Tobey Tall — May 20, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
You stated
“this war is about Neocons trying to control Oil prices by stealing Iraqs and keeping prices low for the next 50 years”
No, Tobey Toll, this is not the reason. The reason is about PAX Americana with the corporate backed neo-cons in control. This is why “Stay the course” was, and is, the truth. Only Plan A and nothing else. There never was or is any other plan. Nor will there ever be.
May 20th, 2007 at 10:40 pmimagine the world after an attack on Iran if you can. A new dark age, but perhaps this is what they are shooting for.
Why are the Dems going along? probably too much film footage of sexual acts with boyz and whatever.
May 20th, 2007 at 10:55 pmTobey Tall wrote:
“Every one of the 535 members of the 110th Congress is liable to face criminal indictment from the International Criminal Court in de Hague if the U.S. uses nuclear weapons in the impending conflict with Iran.”
Unless, the US or one of its allies happens to get hit with an Iran nuke first, right? If that were to happen, well then the US would easily be able to justify using them against Iran, kind of like self defense. Would Iran be that stupid? No. Would the US or Israel do it for them? YES!
Big Mark
May 20th, 2007 at 11:08 pm“Arab allies are urging such a course on Bush and would not object to U.S. military action against Iran. ”
Sure they wouldn’t. Anyone else think that they want to draw us in deeper and deeper? And their counsel just might be taken seriously by Commander Guy and his war profiteering sidekick, Darth Cheney. They busted the military in the sands of Iraq…want to double down and sink the Navy in the Persian Gulf?
May 21st, 2007 at 12:09 amAccording to the Navy report on the Stennis Group’s arrival in the Gulf:
“Carrier Strike Group 3… includes the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), Carrier Air Wing 9, Destroyer Squadron 21, the guided-missile cruiser USS Antietam (CG 54), guided-missile destroyers USS O’Kane (DDG 77) and USS Preble (DDG 88), and the fast combat-support ship USNS Bridge (T-AOE 10). More than 6,500 Sailors and Marines are assigned to JCSSG.”
http://www.cusnc.navy.mil/articles/2007/030.html
(This listing of the deployment leaves out the minelayers/sweepers and tankers and other support and supply ships — and it, strangely, leaves out any mention of the nuclear-armed submarines assigned to each carrier group.)
The Nimitz, among a handful of the largest warships in the world, is currently in the Gulf as well.
Given the parameters of cruise missiles, US warships in the Mediteranean can fire on Iran as well.
We’re armed for bear, and Bushco’s plans to attack are ALWAYS hidden inside the kind of creampuff ‘don’t worry about a thing’ disclaimers we are currently seeing.
War with Iran, in June.
The warmongers have payments to make on their castles.
May 21st, 2007 at 1:10 am“Every one of the 535 members of the 110th Congress is liable to face criminal indictment from the International Criminal Court in de Hague if the U.S. uses nuclear weapons in the impending conflict with Iran.” — Tobey
That’s NONSENSE, Tobey. We haven’t even been able to get a case going in Europe against Rumsfeld and Sanchez (et al.) — we are never going to see the ICC attempt to indict the entire U.S. gov’t.
Someone told me recently that Bush was going to declare martial law, and use the — Mexican army — to enforce it. Your idea about the power of the ICC against the U.S. Congress is of similar likelihood.
May 21st, 2007 at 1:13 amOur only hope is that the military will refuse to go along with the madness of this administration.
May 21st, 2007 at 1:21 amAlso, Tobey, you are clearly quoting something from the web. Won’t you supply the link when you do that?
I can’t check ‘Chapter 25′ to see your evidence, for instance, for the non-accidental nature of the Chinese embassy bombing during the interdiction in Kosovo which, according to Samantha Strong (’Genocide–A Problem from Hell’), saved the lives of 150,000 people.
NATO appears to may have bombed the Chinese embassy to stop it from participating in Serb communications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ NATO_Bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
Your combination of the Philadelphia police bombing — an absurdity for the record books, next to Waco and even Ruby Ridge — shows that your rhetoric is monolithic. Your suggesting that the Philly PD is somehow IN ANY WAY CORRELATED TO a NATO cruise missile going 300 yards off course in Eastern Europe is part of the reason why I’m a Democrat, not a ‘leftist.’
May 21st, 2007 at 1:40 amNOW I’M REALLY SCARED. I’ve been saying that the Executive branch has joined forces with the Judicial branch and since between the two they control all the troops, the guard, the FBI, the police etc. they render the Legislative branch powerless with nobody to even enforce subpoenas.
We now have a War Czar which wasn’t needed for what has happened but rather for what is about to happen(Iran attacks).
And now this:
With scarcely a mention in the mainstream media, President Bush has ordered up a plan for responding to a catastrophic attack.
In a new National Security Presidential Directive, Bush lays out his plans for dealing with a “catastrophic emergency.â€
Under that plan, he entrusts himself with leading the entire federal government, not just the Executive Branch. And he gives himself the responsibility “for ensuring constitutional government.â€
He laid this all out in a document entitled “National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51†and “Homeland Security Presidential Directive/HSPD-20.â€
Congress must stop Bush now before it is too late and they are unable to do it. Get the troops back into the country as quickly as possible. Start impeachment proceedings against Bush/Cheney/Gonzales and other co-conspirators. This is not a conspiracy ‘theory’, it is actually happening. Time to stop them is running out. Please contact everyone you know about Bush’s latest “catastrophic emergency plan” because it’s time to prepare. Congress is still suffering from the idea that it can’t happen here in spite of how “obvious” the plan is. Everything is already in readiness. The time to stop Bush is now. We won’t be able to later and just like he was wrong about the civil war in Iraq, the bloody civil war here would be just as bad. Must impeach Bush/Cheney now.
May 21st, 2007 at 1:43 amThere was a link on Dem Underground to an article that quoted sources as saying Admiral Fallon stated that the military “was trying to put the crazies back in their box.” in reference to the miltary’s standing against crazy cheney’s attempt to start wwIII by nuking Iran. Even GHWBush senior called cheney and rumsfeld “the crazies”. Rumsfeld gone, cheney’s next.
May 21st, 2007 at 3:04 amThis is more cointelpro black-op information by someone who backed Ahmad Chalabi. he is inventing wild fantasies as a prediction. Bush doctrine died last year in the fields of southern Lebanon. there would bo no attack on iran not until after the next presidential elections and not without a major terror attack. thankfully the american economic elite are smarter than to fall for a fail doctrine more than three times. Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon were bad enough for business. no one in the right mind would allow bush to repeat those mistakes one more time. and yes bush is not the ultimate decision-maker global capital is.
May 21st, 2007 at 3:22 am“Must impeach Bush/Cheney now.” –Bjobotts
We do not have the votes.
We have to restore the Department of Justice, and get the prosecutions that are stopped up flowing. The first step of that process may occur this week (Gonzales resigning).
• If Bush intends to attack Iran next month, there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
You might as well get used to that, and continue the fight.
May 21st, 2007 at 3:29 amMilosevic died under VERY suspicious circumstance just before Bill Clinton was required to testify in Milosevic’s trial in the Hague.
PBS has information on their documentary DOWNFALL OF A DICTATOR about the efforts of the CIA in propaganda and black ops to bring down Yugoslavia.
See PNAC plan A CLEAN BREAK about Balkinization being a step in their insane plan to rule the world.
May 21st, 2007 at 3:58 amKasinca, N° 28:
The PNAC/neocon/Cheneybush régime is NOT
May 21st, 2007 at 5:29 amKasinca, N°28:
Please get wise:
The PNAC/Neocon/Cheneybush wars and occupations are NOT, repeat NOT “blunders.” They are not
“mis-adventures,” nor are they “big mistakes.”
This has all been done on purpose, it was laid out in PNAC position papers be fore1997, and publicised. It was not a “secret” plan. Everything was aided/abetted by Rice, Powell and the other traitors — not to mention 911/inside job.
If the citizens of this USA do NOT establish and implement a Neuremberg-type War Crimes Tribunal for the purpose of prosecuting all PNAC/Cheneybush régime criminals, our nation is finished.
But then again…this too, the demise of USA democracy, may also be part of the Neocon Grand Plan for the end of our constitutional democracy as we know it.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:38 am“Milosevic died under VERY suspicious circumstance just before Bill Clinton was required to testify in Milosevic’s trial in the Hague.” –irina
Nonsense. Milosevich was smuggling some pharmaceutical drug and OD’d.
The idea that leftists cry one tear over that racist pig completely amazes me.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:53 amBig Papa
Paul in LA
please read this full article ,
Madrid, Brussels, London, Berlin, Paris, Rome, and Vienna may well be off-limits to U.S. members of Congress soon. Just as well: they will still be able to enjoy pleasant summer breaks in Crawford, Texas, or Jackson Hole, Wyo., in the best of companies [1], [2]. That’s certainly preferable to ending up in a European jail for a very long time.
http://www.antiwar.com/ orig/ hirsch.php?articleid=10544
The minute Nuclear fallout lands on an ICC memebr thats it and bear in mind that at Nantanz Iran is already producing Enriched uranium for the last month
May 21st, 2007 at 6:50 amCongress’ Liability in a Nuclear Strike on Iran
The Reach of the International Criminal Court
“Most Serious Crimes of International Concern”
Congress Provided the Weapons
The Uniqueness of the Current Threat
Congress Cannot Claim Ignorance
Congress’ Failure to Regulate
Individual Liability of Members of Congress
How Members of Congress Can Discharge Responsibility
Can the ICC Act on the Threat Alone?
http://www.antiwar.com/ orig/ hirsch.php?articleid=10544
May 21st, 2007 at 6:52 amIt may have been “done on purpose” in accordance with PNAC-but that doesn’t make it a SMART plan…or a successful one. A very real argument can be made that PNAC is plan to overthrow the United States government.
Dubya will have to be removed, dictators never go willingly and they don’t play by the rules. If there is one thing Bushco have proved, its that laws, morals and even public outrage, will never get in the way of an incompetent plan.
Throw the bums out, send in the marines if necessary-that’s why we have them.
May 21st, 2007 at 8:45 amN° 75, Prissy:
Absolutely, the PNAC is a plan to destroy our constitutional democracy and install a corporatist empire. Hence my statement that a Neuremberg-type War Crimes Tribunal must be established to deal with these PNAC criminals and their propagandists. Otherwise they will keep coming back again and again to impose their evil deeds. If they are not impeached, disbarred, repudiated and entirely discredited they will simply move on to continued and expanded control of the world’s governments, coporations and media.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:25 amIn March 2007 Tehran based PRESS TV reported that the Iranian Embassy in Baghdad announced a shift of its major currency from dollars to euros. Iraqis traveling to Iran will pay for a visa in euros in line with other Iran Embassy locations. [11]
In March 2007 The Scotsman reported that China’s state-run Zhuhai Zhenrong Corp, the biggest buyer of Iranian crude worldwide, began paying for its oil in euros late last year. Iranian officials have said for months that more than half the OPEC member’s customers switched their payment currency away from the dollar as Tehran seeks to diversify its reserves, but news of the Zhenrong change is the first outside confirmation. Japan have also announced that they would be willing to switch to Yen from US Dollars.[12] Iran’s central banker announced in March 2007 that Iran had cut its holding of U.S.-dollar assets to around 20% of its foreign reserves in response to U.S. hostility.
May 21st, 2007 at 1:05 pmTobey Tall:
As you may know, Iraq under Saddam switched from petro-dollars to euros in November of 2000. He began accepting euros for Iraqi oil as of that date. This sealed his fate, obviously…since the invasion and occupation was also designed as a war in support of the US petro-dollar and AGAINST the euro. Next!!
May 21st, 2007 at 1:18 pmBush plan B: same as plan A, but bigger.
May 21st, 2007 at 2:28 pmThe organization to watch is AIPAC, The American Israeli Political Action Comm. This is a group or wealthy Americansm mostly Jewish, who are rabid supporters of Israel. Nothing wrong with that other than they want the US to rearrange the middle-east via “Regime change”, sometimes referred to as War, so that Israel will be the only country left in the middle east that is not occupied by the US. Their challenge is to make it look like it is in the interest of America to invade Iran, similar to the way the chickenhawks came up with the WMD scare. This is not to say that all Jews feel this way. There are many who actually believe in peace and justice as opposed to war.
At their ( AIPAC’s) last meeting in New York most of the presidential candidates tried to outdo each other in their zeal to attack Iran. Knowing that many of the influential members of AIPAC can make or break a campaign, all candidates, Republican and Democrat, save R. Paul who was not invited, echoed each other saying, “All military options are on the table when it comes to Iran!” Each time the AIPAC audience gave them a standing ovation. Of course, none of the AIPAC members have sons or daughters in the military, who would be killed in such an action. No, their children are safely embedded in Yale and Harvard.
So my fellow bloggers you can talk about the reasons we invaded Iraq and why Bush will invade Iran, but here’s a clue, it was not Big Oil’s Idea. Bush thinks he is doing God’s work and the Jewish zealots such as Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Kristol, Feith, who all have Israel’s interest at heart, have all convinced Bush he is doing God’s work.
What a klutz!
May 21st, 2007 at 5:05 pmConsidering what a clueless dick Hoagland is, this column is probably good news. Given his track record of unfailing inaccurcy, if he’s reporting that the Bushistas are contemplating bombing Iran, then bombing Iran has probably been permanently ruled out.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:07 pmThe ICC will NEVER do what you’re suggesting, Tobey. NEVER.
So pretend all you want.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:14 pmyou people are not serious to thinkl america can manage another war with iran. PLEEEZ get real.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:24 amBush knows this and so does Iran.
And that is why Iran sped up their centrifuges. Iran realised that there really is nothingAmerica can do. PERIOD
The best case senario, in my opinion, is to get on our knees as a nation and pray that Dr. Paul can manage to get elected. The Dems that are running are going to jump right in bed with Perle as soon as they get elected anyway. The only way to stop what is going on is to prove who planned and executed the 911 attacks, prosecute them, and put them away. The only way I see this happening is if we have a president that cannot be bought. Only an executive order can cancel another one (or 501). The department of homeland “insecurity” won’t just go away on its own. The next President of this country has GOT to be someone with the willpower and foresight to understand what is going on and what is required to finally free the American people from Neo-conservitism.
May 24th, 2007 at 8:56 pmYou forget that the entire campaign was based on Iran. iraq is nothing but a stagin point and so was afghanistan (call it surrounded). unfortunately for the peoples of iran, the govt/religion has been playing too much of a game by arming groups like hamas and hizbollah to fight a proxy with israel. now everything has come full circle and the moderate arab states dont trust (have never) trusted the iranian way. trying to prey upon the old “i will destroy israel” just doesnt cut it anymore…
one more mistake could cost you dearly.
May 29th, 2007 at 12:43 amAs a Special Forces officer just returned from Iraq, I see the landscape much differently. Please consider the following “Plan B” for Iraq–produced through personal experiences and hundreds of hours of intense discussions with the men at the “tip of the spear” charged with winning this war:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/05/plan-b-in-iraq/
(Small Wars Journal is a website dedicated to promoting discussion/ debate between military professionals, counterinsurgency experets, and other interested parties)
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:42 pmWhat is all this nonsense about US aggression towards Iran?
June 15th, 2007 at 12:19 amIran is making all the aggressive moves at this time. Their proxies are actively engaged in Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, Iraq, and Afghanistan. There is no need to invade Iran. They will come to you!