Pentagon Making Preparations To Keep Tens Of Thousands Of Troops In Iraq For ‘Decades’
Pentagon Making Preparations To Keep Tens Of Thousands Of Troops In Iraq For ‘Decades’
In testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee this month, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace uttered a “carefully worded” statement revealing that the Pentagon had no plans to fully withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq if legislation passes Congress mandating troop redeployment:
PACE: Sir, we have published no orders directing the planning for the overall withdrawal of forces. We do have ongoing replacements of forces, and we do change the size of the force over time so that that system is available to either plus-up or draw down, but we have published no orders saying come up with a complete plan for total drawdown.
NPR investigated Pace’s statements and found one scenario being considered within the Pentagon would maintain a strong U.S. military presence in Iraq for several decades into the future.
This so-called “lily pad” strategy entails keeping a “series of military installations around Iraq,” with tens of thousands of U.S. troops remaining in the country for as long as a few decades:
[W]hat it essentially envisions is a series of military installations around
Iraq , maybe five or six of them, a total of maybe 30-40 thousandU.S. troops in Iraq for a long period of time, lasting, maybe a few decades. And the idea is that these bases will be somewhat hermetically sealed, thatU.S. military forces won’t be leaving them, they won’t be conducting presence patrols and the patrols they conduct now. Ground convoys won’t be driving into them.Airplanes will be essentially landing in to deliver supplies and these sort of lily pads will be in various strategic areas in
Iraq … And that will enable theU.S. military to maintain a presence in the country, perhaps…for a few decades.
The Pentagon’s goal with the lily pads is to preserve U.S. interests in Iraq for years to come “in the event that Congress or the administration pushes this [withdrawal plan] forward.” As NPR details, those interests are at least three-fold: 1) Training Iraq forces, 2) Preserving economic interests, as “Iraq obviously [sits] on the second largest reserve of oil in the world,” and 3) Providing a U.S. military “presence” to deter Iran and Turkey from “getting involved” after withdrawal.
While 60 percent of Americans are calling for a withdrawal of the U.S. from Iraq, the Pentagon is instead making preparations for an unending occupying presence.
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ummm, I don’t think the public is going to go for that.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pmDUH!!!
This was my plan the whole time.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmYou don’t build big-ass bases, and that big-ass green zone to pack up and leave. Duh.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmI’ve said this from the very beginning.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmThe Pentagon likes big asses.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:35 pmThey weren’t building the mega-bases out in the deserts for no reason.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:35 pm#1,
Keep the public distracted and uniformed. That’s easy. I’ve only seen one picture of the green zone fortress, from BBC.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:35 pmthanks Bush! your intelligence knows no bounds!
May 21st, 2007 at 4:36 pmget real… oil is why we’re in iraq, oil is why we’re building up those giant permanent military bases, oil is why we’re constructing an embassy complex the size of vatican city to the tune of a half billion dollars… and it’s not just iraqi oil we’re after… iraq will serve as the principal base for efforts to destabilize iran so we can access its oil resources too, and don’t forget the caspian basin with all its oil and gas resources, just a short flight away… why would we want to give all that up just to bring peace to iraq…? and why the hell would we want to leave…?
the fact is, the u.s. isn’t even INTERESTED in achieving peace… our government is merely going through the motions, trying to play out its lie of bringing democracy to the region… the only reason the bush administration is making ANY efforts toward stabilization is to insure the money keeps flowing… other than that, they simply don’t care…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
May 21st, 2007 at 4:36 pmAh yes. The public opinion.
Why do you think it matters one iota anymore?
May 21st, 2007 at 4:38 pmPresident Bush,
Ron Paul was right. Muslims, generally speaking, don’t like us putting up permanent bases in their country. Most people don’t like it.
How would you feel if Mexico and Canada invaded us to get rid of a torturing, empire seeking head of state, and then after they did that, they decided to put up there own permanent bases here?
May 21st, 2007 at 4:38 pmof COURSE they are. Why? Because that’s their goal. And, no matter what the politicians tell us, the reality is this - if they have their way, the end result will be a neverending military presence in Iraq.
Massive bases, billions and billions of dollars for the killing and on and on.
All the while - we have an “anti-war” party that can’t even support a non-binding withdrawal date.
The Iraq war is so far removed from anything that is just, it makes me sick to think that these people are allowing it to continue.
The time to end the war is now. Not after the next election, not after the violence subsides, not next year.
Now.
Some further reading:
“Top-Ten Reasons to Get out of Iraq. Now!”
May 21st, 2007 at 4:38 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/ top_ten_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq_now
Defund, deauthorize, bring them home, impeach, convict, imprison. This goes for every member of the Bush Crime Family.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:40 pmThe sun never sets on the American empire. Long live King George.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:40 pmDoes the Pentagon plan on maintaining their plan even if the next president yanks the Yanks?
May 21st, 2007 at 4:41 pmI’m sure that will work very well for them. Kind of like how well everything else has gone probably.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:43 pm… And that will enable the U.S. military to maintain a presence in the country, perhaps…for a few decades.
Well, there goes the recruiment goal for the next, oh, um, decade or so.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:45 pmDraft, anyone?
This is just f*cking stupid.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:46 pmthe UN mandate runs out dec 07 . If the Iraqis say OUT then the mandate automatically runs out and you must withdraw forever
May 21st, 2007 at 4:46 pmGreat - “Join the Army, and enjoy your year in a hermetically sealed megabase in the Iraqi desert.” That’s gonna be one hell of a hardship duty station.
Not exactly like being stationed in Germany or Japan!
May 21st, 2007 at 4:48 pmI look forward to seeing Antrax and chemical weapons landing in these super bases , then see you run fast
May 21st, 2007 at 4:48 pmCrump’s Brother,
Ron Paul got what he had coming after he tried to blame America. He’s done. My buddies at Fox News will see to that.
As for this business of permanent bases. How in the world can we think we can run the world without putting our troops in every single country we can?
You liberals cracks me up. Wrong about everything. Watch Fox tonight and they’ll fill you in on the details of the premanent bases you will be paying for that I am putting in Iraq whether you like it or not!!
May 21st, 2007 at 4:51 pmUmmmm. Plan again Generalissimo.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:52 pmThe American people will elect a president in 08 who WILL order and you WILL obey those orders to
COMPLETELY evacuate and remove ALL troops from Iraq.
That is all.
The United States has spent more than $340 billion dollars on Iraq to date. While they continue to discuss a withdrawal timeline thousands of people around the world go to be hungry each night. The US government agreed to support the Millennium Development Goals that will help to end global poverty by 2015. Unfortunately with so much going to the war in Iraq, the US portion of the program is horribly under funded. Nonprofit groups such as the Borgen Project are doing everything they can to bring awareness, both politically and personally, to the situation. Less than half of aid from the United States goes to the poorest countries where people earn less than $2 a day. This foreign policy is not effective when thousands die each day.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:54 pmNo doubt about it we invaded and occupy a soveign nation for oil; we kill and torture for oil; we sacrafice our children and their futures for oil. This will not stop–I think this has just started.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe Iraqis can use the enormous runways at the “permanant” (to be deserted) bases for a try at the Guiness record for the largest group of roller skating hokey pokey dancers .
May 21st, 2007 at 4:56 pmummm, I don’t think the public is going to go for that.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party
I don’t think they give a rat’s ass what the public wants anymore.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:56 pmAh yes. The public opinion.
Why do you think it matters one iota anymore?
Comment by BottomBoy
Go aheat ButtBoy, tell us again how you fascists have us all under control and there’s nothing we can do about it.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:57 pmRUCerious: Just like the American people elected the 110th Congress to box in the President and to stop his unpopular war? Oh well, it was a nice idea until the people we voted in started caving in (see the “no timeline” story on the front page).
One thing, though. How are they going to supply these bases? I’m sure they have airfields in them or somewhere nearby, but that didn’t work so well for Paulus and his 6th Army in Stalingrad. Is that what we’re going to see in a few years?
May 21st, 2007 at 4:58 pmIraq is supposed to be a SOVEREIGN COUNTRY. When did they vote for Lillypads????
May 21st, 2007 at 4:58 pmLet me guess. The insurgency will get real clever at drawing us out and ambushing us. They sure won’t give up trying to rid the country of an occupying Army.
We need to start spending the Billion$ were spending on this war to develop Alternative Energy. We should have been doing it all along.
This entire administration needs to be exiled — to Iraq.
May 21st, 2007 at 4:58 pmThe only way out will be through voting for candidates who are unambiguous with their desire for the US to be completely out of Iraq.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:00 pmShane,
“tell us again how you fascists have us all under control and there’s nothing we can do about it.”
All us fascists have you all under our control and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Shock and Awe!!!
May 21st, 2007 at 5:01 pmyou know the Insurgents can shoot down Civil planes going into Baghdad airport , they just choose NOT too at the moment
Napalm would get the troops out
Radiation or Gas downwind
Iraqis could round up Depleleted Urainum off the desert floor and send it back into the bases
Crash Highjacked planes into the bases
get better rockets from Russia andbnChina,
Start better terrorist attcks outside Iraq until you leave
The Minute Iraq wants you to leave , The Un Mandate becomes Invalid
SEE HOW THE WORLD FEELS TOWARDS AMERICANS IN FUTURE ??????
May 21st, 2007 at 5:01 pmInstalling the airbases and the citadel has been obvious goalpost moving since the beginning of Bush’s Disaster.
Illegal from the start, illegal in the future, illegal the way genocide is illegal.
Those bases WILL be closed. The people who put those bases in WILL be indicted for their massive war crimes.
Nine-eleven does not entitlte the United States to kill a million people and take over a sovereign country. The UN Charter is still in effect. Bush and Cheney are going out of office and into the legal system as defendants.
And the pale threats of the Chicken Wing of the Rapepublican party will continue.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:03 pmFYI The airport with the most air traffic in the World is Heathrow. The airport with the second most air traffic is Balad air base, Iraq.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:05 pmTobey, hallucinating again.
The ‘lilly pads’ are large enough that planes can land with impunity.
The US military cannot be moved from those bases EXCEPT by retasking via US political processes.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:07 pm#29 Klerk.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:07 pmIf the next president doesn’t have the troops out in six months, we’ve elected another Corporatican.
The divide between Democratic leaders contemplating their re-election prospects in 2008 and rank-and-file Democrats is becoming a chasm–one so wide that Congressional Democrats may soon find it hard to straddle it.
The issue is impeachment.
So far, Democrats in Congress and at the top of the party hierarchy, out of touch with public sentiment and worried that impeachment could hurt them with “independents”–whom they mistakenly consider to stand somehow “in between” Democrats and Republicans–have been following House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s vow that for the 110th Congress, “impeachment is off the table.” They’ve been doing more than that: they have been actively working to tamp down, and even to crush, impeachment campaigns in the states. For example, in the state of Washington, an effort to get the state to pass a joint legislative resolution which would have compelled the Congress to initiate impeachment proceedings was derailed after the Democratic leadership dispatched two of the state’s leading federal elected officials, Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Jay Inslee, to press legislative leaders to block a floor vote. Similar pressure doomed efforts that might have passed in the legislatures of New Mexico and Vermont (The Vermont Senate did pass the resolution).
ONCE THE DEMCRATS GOT THE PEOPLES VOTES ONLY THEN DID THEY TAKE IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE - YOU WERE TRICKED
May 21st, 2007 at 5:07 pmPaul in LA - Iran has thousands of Rockets pointed at the bases already ??? one Anthrax rocket would make the base inhabital for 50 years
My Argument for Iran is if you use depleted Uranium which is banned by the UN . then if I were Iranian I would use Anthraz . tick for tack
And Back to this link heres the full articles please read I only posted a small part
http://www.antiwar.com/ orig/ hirsch.php?articleid=10544
Every one of the 535 members of the 110th Congress is liable to face criminal indictment from the International Criminal Court in de Hague if the U.S. uses nuclear weapons in the impending conflict with Iran.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:17 pmOf COURSE Americans will be stationed there…throughout Iraq….forever. You didn’t KNOW that?
We have to be ready and in position to bomb IRAN, don’t we?
http://www.rollingstone.com/ politics/ story/ 10962352/ iran_the_next_war
May 21st, 2007 at 5:17 pmKeep this sh*t up and 40,000 will be the total number of troops available in about a decade.
I guess the plan is to force illegals to join the military in order to gain 2nd class citizenship.
I’m updating my name in light of this, as well, to Not Canadian Yet.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:19 pmI seriously do not want to raise my children in this mindless mess of a paranoid-neo-conservative country.
Tobey, we DON’T HAVE THE VOTES FOR IMPEACHMENT.
As for ‘when they got the people’s votes,’ the people have been voting in majorities for Democrats since 1999 and the elections have been stolen. We won in 2006 as a direct result of DEMOCRAT Howard Dean, and we have been able to accomplish a great deal due to highly-approved Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and others.
You pretend that the ICC will indict the Congress. That has ZERO chance of happening. As for bills of impeachment, they won’t make it out of committee, and EVEN IF THEY DID, and somehow passed the House, we do NOT have anything like 67 votes in the Senate.
Reality is a LOT tougher than buying every myth you can think up, Tobey.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:20 pmWe did it in Korea, why is Iraq any different? Take a chill pill TP conspiracists. This is the best news in a long time. Here is a scary thought: WWPD? (What would Pelosi Do?) She makes Neville Chamberlain look like Ronald Reagan.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:21 pm“Paul in LA - Iran has thousands of Rockets pointed at the bases already”
H’yeah, Tobey, and there are about 2,000 active, in-theater nukes pointed at Tehran.
Your worldview is hysterical, which is understandable, but false.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:22 pmNot Canadian Yet:
Best idea I’ve heard in a long time. Don’t let the door hit your azz on the way out. Sounds like you’re already a foreigner……lol. Why not France?
May 21st, 2007 at 5:23 pmEric favors genocide. He favors breaking all of our laws. He trolls for Bush, and Bushco, because he got his tax break.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:23 pmI’m deeply disturbed by this news, but not surprised. How on earth is this supposed to “help” the situation in Iraq, especially when our occupation in the region is causing/has caused so much disturbance.
Call me paranoid, but I’m just waiting for “the fuhrer” to announce martial law. It seems to me the present dictatorship in the white house doesn’t see themselves leaving in 2 years.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:24 pmI’d be shocked if it weren’t for the obvious:
(It’s a lengthy list of over 1,000 U.S. military bases worlwide)
http://www.nasaa-home.org/baselocs.htm
May 21st, 2007 at 5:27 pmSuch a mind twister….Don’t we all KNOW this is going to be the case as the bases and embassy are being built? KNOWING this we hang on to the bits of scrap thrown at us regarding troop withdrawal, mission accomplished…just hoping this mess over lies will be over and all troops will come home. And some want to know why this Bush crime family is so hated….. The lies, deceit, mind games and secrecy never end.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:28 pmIran manufactures weapons for blister, blood, and choking agents; it is also believed to be conducting research on nerve agents. Iran’s stockpile of chemical weapons is believed to include nerve and blister agents. Iran is estimated to have an inventory of several thousand tons of various agents, including sulfur mustard, phosgene, and cyanide agents. Its production capacity is estimated at as much as 1000 tons a year, with major production facilities located at Damghan, 300 kms east of Tehran. Iran is working on developing a self-sufficient CW production capacity that includes more effective nerve agents. Along with shell and bomb delivery systems, Iran may also be producing CW warheads for its Scud missile systems.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:28 pmMary, Bush does NOT have the political power or the manpower to declare martial law.
It was certainly his desire to be the total dictator, but short of an end to our civilization through some massive terrorist act, we have more basic problems, like how to avoid Chicken Wing domestic terrorism and reestablish our system of laws via the gutting of the crony matrix at DoJ and elsewhere.
Fear and hysterics are NOT the solution. Levelheaded and ardent activism to bring about REAL goals is.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:30 pmWhat if the Iraqi leadership want all troops out- AND WE KNOW THEY DO? Are they then going to mysteriously die or disappear? We know they will.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:32 pmIran has NEVER used chemical weapons against civilian targets.
Iran is surrounded by actual nuclear weapons.
Iran is not going to exist if they use those weapons against the US forces.
Bush can’t wait to nuke Iran. It is only those who aren’t insane who can stop him.
Tobey, you are a hysteric voice in very dangerous times.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:33 pmWe did it in Korea, why is Iraq any different?
May 21st, 2007 at 5:33 pmComment by Eric .
First of all…the WE in korea was the United Nations. Secondly.. The majority of South Koreans are Christians, who were Pro-American. The only similar group in Iraq would be the Kurds. We could put our Lillypads up there, assuming the Turks wouldn’t flip out.
The Dems are wussing out and will not stop the war.
We will be in Iraq forever/
May 21st, 2007 at 5:34 pm“If the next president doesn’t have the troops out in six months, we’ve elected another Corporatican.
Comment by RUCerious — May 21, 2007 @ 5:07 pm”
Exactly. It’s why I’ve emailed Al Gore and told him that he needs to get in the game (you know, because he always takes my advice :). Hillary is in debt to the Corprations, as is Obama. We need an independent.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:34 pmComment by Eric — May 21, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
On the nose Eric! Chamberlain faced off against one of the most sophisticated countries on the earth with a military far in advance of the UK’s at the time. The parallels with the US and Iraq are very, very obvious apart to them dang liberals.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:37 pmI wish they would dig up Ronnie’s corpse and put him back in the White House. Them there were the good ol days.
/sarsasm
May 21st, 2007 at 5:39 pmAnd of course Iran might have chemical stockpiles within the USA already . very easy to do , just substitute 1 kilo smuggled heroin for 1 Kilo Nerve agent
1 coca cola tin of nerve agent would wipe New York out
Might I highly recommend that the world dissarm all weapons and lets all start again fresh as Sensible Human beings in the future
May 21st, 2007 at 5:39 pm“(It’s a lengthy list of over 1,000 U.S. military bases worlwide)–unbelievable
It’s a lengthy list 2/3 of which are US domestic bases.
It’s not even complete, but the rest:
NATO: Belgium, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, UK (Greenland, Diego Garcia)
Results of war/protectorates: Cuba, Guam, Japan, Puerto Rico, S. Korea
Gulf states: Bahrain (list doesn’t mention Qatar and other sites)
So the list is specious propaganda. Can’t you lot do better?
May 21st, 2007 at 5:43 pmTobey, you are a hysteric voice in very dangerous times
No Im just a guy worried about a madman living at Crawford , who was elected to look after a superpower
Nukes are pretty useless really, 1 Coco Cola tin of nerve agents is far more serious
May 21st, 2007 at 5:44 pmNow Tobey is spreading rightwing ‘info’ on Iran. Trying to help Bush start his war is not helpful, Tobey.
1 coca cola tin of nerve agent might kill a few thousand people. You’re scaremongering.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:44 pm“It’s why I’ve emailed Al Gore and told him that he needs to get in the game (you know, because he always takes my advice :). Hillary is in debt to the Corprations, as is Obama. We need an independent.” –unbelievable
Well, here’s a clue, Gore is a DEMOCRAT.
We do need Gore as President. On that we agree.
As for ‘in debt to the corporations,’ that’s the kind of silliness that shows a real lack of grasp of your situation.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:47 pmSo is Bush and Cheney Scaremongering or at least I hope
May 21st, 2007 at 5:47 pmBush was never elected, Tobey.
“Nukes are pretty useless really.”
A soda can of nerve agent is far better — because a nuke would kill ten million people, while a soda can of nerve agent would drop an entire subway crowd of a few thousand. I see what you mean.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:48 pm1 coca cola tin of nerve agent might kill a few thousand people. You’re scaremongering.
imagine what 1000 tons would do then
May 21st, 2007 at 5:49 pm1 coca cola tin of nerve agent might kill a few thousand people.
If Bush follows his established pattern, He will Invade Pepsi.;)
May 21st, 2007 at 5:49 pm“It’s a lengthy list 2/3 of which are US domestic bases.”
It’s lengthy when you just look at the overseas bases - it’s miles long when you add the domestic ones.
“It’s not even complete, but the rest:
NATO: Belgium, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, UK (Greenland, Diego Garcia)”
I was making a point… That we have so many bases in other countries that thinking we wouldn’t keep a base or twenty in Iraq is naive.
“So the list is specious propaganda. Can’t you lot do better?
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 5:43 pm”
No it isn’t. It’s about showing that we’re, as a nation, building an Empire in areas where we have ‘interests’, and to think Iraq would be excluded from that growing list is delusional.
It ruins the ‘joke’ when you have to make me explain it… Sheesh.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:54 pmOver my dead body.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:55 pmGreat, Tobey, so you plan on getting 20,000 tons of nerve agent into NYC?
You’re going to need something like 50,000 dump trucks.
Better get on the phone.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:55 pmI wish I had a can of the original recipe COCA-cola… or two…:)
May 21st, 2007 at 5:56 pm“Well, here’s a clue, Gore is a DEMOCRAT.”
You CAN change party affliation, Sherlock Holmes.
“We do need Gore as President. On that we agree.”
Then stop being a prick.
“As for ‘in debt to the corporations,’ that’s the kind of silliness that shows a real lack of grasp of your situation.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 5:47 pm”
Then by all means, big mouth, you explain where Hillary is getting her record-setting campaign contributions… Or just piss off until you get your loaded diaper changed and wake up from your nap.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:58 pmYou can drink more beer in a bush, from a pepsi can, than Bush can snort coke from a nervous agent.
May 21st, 2007 at 5:59 pm“It’s lengthy when you just look at the overseas bases - it’s miles long when you add the domestic ones.”
So your point is that the US has a large military? Wow, stop the presses!
“I was making a point… That we have so many bases in other countries that thinking we wouldn’t keep a base or twenty in Iraq is naive.”
We have military bases around the world, and sure, Bush would like to ‘leave’ bases in a FORMER - Iraq. How’s that working out? He’s committed a long series of crimes, and Iraq isn’t dismantled yet, and his political power is almost zilch. Pretending that a list of US bases gives any information about what’s likely to happen next ignores the real issues involved, in order to make a cheap (and false) point.
“No it isn’t. It’s about showing that we’re, as a nation, building an Empire in areas where we have ‘interests’,” — unbelievable
Look at the list! NATO is not ‘an Empire’ nor are bases in Japan or S. Korea. You’re not making your point by simply observing that the US has an extensive military. We’re also a member of the UN, and it’s ILLEGAL to invade countries to install airbases.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:00 pmthis was old Rumsfeld idea. He proposed ” lily pads” across the globe. I distinctly remember him talking about his lily pads. WIth that in mind, is Rummy still running this fiasco???
May 21st, 2007 at 6:00 pmIf I die, I die. Now, on to pleasurable activities…
May 21st, 2007 at 6:00 pmI remember reading Chalmers Johnson book and the idea struck me like a brick upside the head - we have no good ‘exit strategy’ because we don’t intend to leave. Our behavior is best explained by assuming that the plan from the beginning was that we would take over the country and maintain control of it for an untold number of years. Look at the embassy that we’re building over there. We intend to have a very strong presence for YEARS and YEARS to come.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:00 pm#49 - unbelievable,
May 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmI know of two in Germany that are not in the list:
Veilingen (Outside Stuttgart ) (Actually NATO HQ)
Boeblingen (Panzer Concern, near Sindlefingen)
Here’s Paul, I’ll even help you do your homework:
http://www.opensecrets.org/ politicians/ summary.asp?cid=N00000019
PAC Contribution Breakdown
(How to read this chart / methodology)
Business $1,163,844 (69.4%)
Labor $319,635 (19.1%)
Ideological/Single Issue $193,948 (11.6%)
May 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmAfter hearing all of this talks about nukes and nerve agent I really think we need to do something. And fast!! Let’s … uh … let’s … invade Uruguay.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmsometime who has the bigger stick does not matter ,
most countries run a Mutual assured destruction (MAD) policy
20,000 tons of Nerve gas in to atmosphere would reach America from Tehran
May 21st, 2007 at 6:01 pmOf course, everyone understands, don’t we?
May 21st, 2007 at 6:05 pmThat the oily-militarist-druggist-supremacist corporations want to rule the world.
Right?
And who wants to rule the world?
( Hint: It’s not the Forces of Light and Knowledge.)
“20,000 tons of Nerve gas in to atmosphere would reach America from Tehran” –Tobey Tall
Great! You really must get together with ‘unbelievable’ and figure out The Empire can make use of that important information.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:07 pmHere’s Paul, I’ll even help you do your homework:
http://www.opensecrets.org/ politicians/ summary.asp?cid=N00000019
PAC Contribution Breakdown
(How to read this chart / methodology)
Business $1,163,844 (69.4%)
Labor $319,635 (19.1%)
Ideological/Single Issue $193,948 (11.6%)
Comment by unbelievable
Smacking down trolls…. Priceless.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:07 pmMacArthur wanted to invade China. Truman went to Korea and fired him.
Just because Bushco can order the US military to establish bases in Iraq DOES NOT mean that we get to keep them for our ‘Empire.’
Chalmers Johnson is a propagandist, and not a reliable historian. He makes a thesis that implies that the US is a monolithic entity, instead of a complex democracy currently enduring a coup.
“The United States does NOT have a legitimate longterm interest in staying in Iraq.” — Senator John Kerry, first debate, 2004.
PNAC is a conspiracy. It is NOT equivalent to US foreign policy, except as a function of that coup.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:10 pm“So your point is that the US has a large military? Wow, stop the presses!”
No, Einstein, that the US has a lot of bases in other countries. Please tell me you get THAT.. Sheesh.
“We have military bases around the world, and sure, Bush would like to ‘leave’ bases in a FORMER - Iraq. How’s that working out? He’s committed a long series of crimes, and Iraq isn’t dismantled yet, and his political power is almost zilch. Pretending that a list of US bases gives any information about what’s likely to happen next ignores the real issues involved, in order to make a cheap (and false) point.”
You’re not much for connecting the dots are you? It’s about a general American policy that started after we were left out in the division of countries in Asia - when France, Spain and England took terroritories and we went “Oh, so that’s how they do it.” and threw ourselves into the game. Read some Howard Zinn and educate yourself on the origins of the American Empire.
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa02.html
“Look at the list! NATO is not ‘an Empire’ nor are bases in Japan or S. Korea. You’re not making your point by simply observing that the US has an extensive military. We’re also a member of the UN, and it’s ILLEGAL to invade countries to install airbases.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 6:00 pm”
I didn’t call NATO an empire. And the UN is simply unwilling to call us on our empire building or pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations. Yes, it is illegal - which is why so many people want Junior put on trial for International War Crimes. Try to pay attention.
Stop putting words in my mouth. Having an extensive military is NOT what I’m saying. I am saying that we have a lot of bases in other countries where we have an ‘interest’.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:13 pm“Smacking down trolls…. Priceless.
Comment by ForTruth — May 21, 2007 @ 6:07 pm”
What’s weird is that Paul has always been liberal… It’s like he was bitten by a rabid dog or something… Odd.
So what pleasurable activities besides TP are there? (sarcasm :)
May 21st, 2007 at 6:16 pmWell, duh!!! It’s not like anyone with a little bit of knowledge did not know this one already. They didn’t build those bases and embassy for nothing. Our troops will have targets on their backs for decades.
Hating the Repukian Mafia daily
May 21st, 2007 at 6:18 pmIf everyone can remeber, we had a HUGE military presence in Saudi Arabia until a few years ago, when the Saudis finally told us to beat it. Eventually, we will have to get out of there…….hopefully sooner than later.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:21 pmOh, Zinn is it? Another lousy historian propagandist.
Either you can argue the points, or you can drop some data bomb like your PAC link and then pat yourself on the back.
Tobey is just about drooling he makes so little sense. Unbelievable, you post an incomplete list of US bases and draw a conclusion that is no better than Ward Churchill’s claim that the Louis & Clark expedition was a military invasion.
And then, Chalmers and Zinn, both of whom are lionized on the left for upholding their mythology.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:24 pmUnbelievable,
Other pleasurable activities would include:
Making meat helmets (or vegetable helmets)
Taunting the neighbor’s dog
Re-naming your cats to fluffy and ginger
Burning your name in the lawn at city hall with roundup
And serious, long time, over and over…. well you guess.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:26 pmPaul…I’m not so sure America is currently enduring a coup. This complex democracy Re elected Bush….and they did this due to very skillfull Propaganda from Rove & co. (It’s about the only thing the Bush Administration can do without screwing it up). I think This Propaganda worked succesfully due to a carefully laid foundation of Lies, half truths, and Misinformation from the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. And force behind the scenes of all this is the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned about. They are the “shock & awe ” folks who are making Billions from this war.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:27 pm“Stop putting words in my mouth. Having an extensive military is NOT what I’m saying. I am saying that we have a lot of bases in other countries where we have an ‘interest’.” –unbelievable
“You’re not much for connecting the dots are you? It’s about a general American policy that started after we were left out in the division of countries in Asia - when France, Spain and England took terroritories and we went “Oh, so that’s how they do it.†and threw ourselves into the game.”
No, what you are saying is that there is a monolithic conspiracy behind US foreign policy that involves setting up an Empire– you are NOT talking about ‘interests.’ It’s a stardard canard on the left, but that does not make it inherently true.
Your suggestion that the US got into the colonial business because we saw how the Europeans did it in Asia is hilarious. When Zinn or Chalmers lays history out in such broad brushstrokes even an IDIOT can understand it.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:29 pmIs this the same “homeschooling, living in a $500,000 house, pilot” troll, or just another troll with the name paul who masturbates to his own delusions? I guess I’m a little behind, ’cause I don’t know…..
May 21st, 2007 at 6:29 pm“Oh, Zinn is it? Another lousy historian propagandist.”
Insult. Clearly you cannot debunk him so you debase him. Clever. No one has ever thought of that before…
“Either you can argue the points, or you can drop some data bomb like your PAC link and then pat yourself on the back.”
I can argue the points and back it up. I’ve yet to see you do the same… just verbal diarreah.
“Tobey is just about drooling he makes so little sense. Unbelievable, you post an incomplete list of US bases and draw a conclusion that is no better than Ward Churchill’s claim that the Louis & Clark expedition was a military invasion.”
Tobey gives us the pulse of the UK. He’s more sober and coherent than you.
It didn’t need to be complete to make my point, genius. How is it that I explained it and you still don’t get it?
Lewis and Clark was not a military invasion.
david, did you just hijack the name of a liberal who doesn’t post that much anymore?
“And then, Chalmers and Zinn, both of whom are lionized on the left for upholding their mythology.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 6:24 pm”
Not mythology - facts. I know facts scare you paranoid types, but really - they are our friends.
Not one fact in that entire rant. You keep comparing people to literary characters. And all you did was insult. It’s either david name-jacking, or paul needs an enema.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:31 pmPaul…I’m not so sure America is currently enduring a coup. This complex democracy Re elected Bush”
That’s a lie. Bush stole Ohio, we have the proof, but the conspiracy in the press has suppressed that information.
“I think This Propaganda worked succesfully due to a carefully laid foundation of Lies, half truths, and Misinformation from the likes of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. And force behind the scenes of all this is the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned about.”–Badger
Yes, a conspiracy to produce a rightwing coup. HOWEVER, the rightwing is not = America. Except in the eyes of Zinn and Chalmers, who need that to be true, and who twist the facts to enforce that point of view.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:32 pmI wish they would dig up Ronnie’s corpse and put him back in the White House. Them there were the good ol days.
/sarsasm
Comment by ForTruth
Really, apart from the smell, how would we know the difference?
May 21st, 2007 at 6:32 pm“Other pleasurable activities would include:
Making meat helmets (or vegetable helmets)”
Scary visual…
“Taunting the neighbor’s dog”
I take it he or she barks at 2:00 am and your neighbor sleeps through it? I have one of those. Exceptthat he has about 50 dogs (well maybe 5, but they sound like 50 at 2:00 am). I prefer taunting the neighbor :D
“Re-naming your cats to fluffy and ginger”
The female is the ‘fluffy’ cat, so I’m not sure the male would like being called ‘ginger’. Though, if you feed him and pet him simultaneously you could call him just about anything… :D
“Burning your name in the lawn at city hall with roundup”
So that was YOU ;)
“And serious, long time, over and over…. well you guess.
Comment by ForTruth — May 21, 2007 @ 6:26 pm”
Considering you’re a subtle as my 18 year oldmale students… Hmmm? :D
I’m sad. Today was the last day for Seniors. I’m gonna miss them. Sigh….
May 21st, 2007 at 6:36 pmLook, Bluedahlia, I have posted under “Paul in LA” since the blogs began. I do not post as ‘Paul.’
What is actually needed, still, is real discussion, not Tobey’s ignorant hysteria, or people still feeding off the ‘Empire’ theory to predict the future based on what’s the worst that can happen.
As a result of these calamities, we may indeed have airbases in Iraq for twenty years. That does not mean that the US as a monolithic block supports that result, but rather than a concerted rightwing conspiracy that is as large as this one cannot be unwoven in ten minutes over blogchat. It does not help to require that monolithic leftist theories be upheld, just because two authors and Dem Now! say so, nevermind the propaganda THOSE entities demonstrably engage in to make it appear so.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:38 pmPaul quit chokin the chiken
Jerkin the gerkin
Visiting Sally Palm and her five freinds
Spanking the monkey
Jacking off
Jerking off
Doing self lotion-motion
May 21st, 2007 at 6:38 pmUnbelievable,
Dang, I’m feelin your vibe.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:39 pm““Oh, Zinn is it? Another lousy historian propagandist.â€
“Insult. Clearly you cannot debunk him so you debase him.”
I can, have, and will debunk him, and my purpose in doing so is not to insult him, but rather to point out how he twists facts and propagandizes, which is offensive to reason.
That Kerry statement on Iraq I quoted? NOT REPORTED by Dem Now!, presumably because it would harm their thesis that Dem = R.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:41 pm“No, what you are saying”
You know what I’m saying and I don’t? Your logic is stunning. Miss Cleo. Why don’t you run for President? Since you’re omniscient, you’d be a shoe-in.
“is that there is a monolithic conspiracy behind US foreign policy that involves setting up an Empire– you are NOT talking about ‘interests.’ It’s a stardard canard on the left, but that does not make it inherently true.”
Yes, I am talking about ‘interests’. I wasteh one who used the word first.
Do you always misinterpret what other people say and then pitch a huge temper tantrum when you’ve been proven wrong?
The facts show that the United States is building an Empire. Not as quickly or as overtly as previous Empires, because we replace our Emporer every 4 to 8 years - but steadily none-the-less.
“Your suggestion that the US got into the colonial business because we saw how the Europeans did it in Asia is hilarious.”
You find facts funny? That’s weird.
“When Zinn or Chalmers lays history out in such broad brushstrokes even an IDIOT can understand it.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 6:29 pm”
I see you have problems with prestigious University Professors who research, teach and have access to large volumes of information from which to write. Pity.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:44 pmYour comments, ForTruth, show that you would be happy to be a thug, presumably because reasoned argument makes you unhappy. If you can’t actually manage reasoned argument, flip over to namecalling and the pretense of being in the In-group.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:44 pm#98 Really, apart from the smell, how would we know the difference?
Comment by Zooey — May 21, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
BwaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaa
My choice for “Post of thye day”
May 21st, 2007 at 6:47 pm“Dang, I’m feelin your vibe.
Comment by ForTruth — May 21, 2007 @ 6:39 pm”
All the way from Arizona? Damn one of us is REALLY good (just kidding angry thought police before you pop a blood vessel and feel compelled to respond).
May 21st, 2007 at 6:49 pmI’m sorry Paul.
I’m just having some fun. Nothing personal. I’m the furthest thing from a thug man.
Carry on.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:49 pmThe whole conflict in Iraq comes down to this….are we there to Free the Iraqi’s OR are we there to establish Permanent Military Bases. ??? The insurgency clearly believes the latter.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:50 pmUnbelievable,
I’m open to vibes and stuff. Its that unseen energy you deny. ;)
May 21st, 2007 at 6:53 pm““No, what you are saying†You know what I’m saying and I don’t? Your logic is stunning. Miss Cleo. “:
I QUOTED you. That’s the meaning of ‘what you are saying.’
“is that there is a monolithic conspiracy behind US foreign policy that involves setting up an Empire– you are NOT talking about ‘interests.’ It’s a stardard canard on the left, but that does not make it inherently true.â€
“Do you always misinterpret what other people say and then pitch a huge temper tantrum when you’ve been proven wrong?”
You have proven, so far, nothing.
“The facts show that the United States is building an Empire.”
Compare to ‘what you are saying,’ above.
“Not as quickly or as overtly as previous Empires, because we replace our Emporer every 4 to 8 years - but steadily none-the-less.”
That’s your thesis. It’s not ‘proven’ just because you continue to restate it.
“I see you have problems with prestigious University Professors who research, teach and have access to large volumes of information from which to write. Pity.” –unbelievable
I can debunk Zinn any time, any place. He LIES in his books, he writes propaganda — it does not matter that Ward Churchill is a University professor — there are PLENTY of liars who are professors.
You don’t get to make your argument by telling me they are professors.
May 21st, 2007 at 6:53 pm“I can, have, and will debunk him, and my purpose in doing so is not to insult him, but rather to point out how he twists facts and propagandizes, which is offensive to reason.”
Wow! That was freaking brilliant, paul. Just brilliant I tell you. You really should write a book with all your brilliant insight that you’ve posted here. I mean, the detail in which you just typed that paragraph is staggering…
“That Kerry statement on Iraq I quoted? NOT REPORTED by Dem Now!, presumably because it would harm their thesis that Dem = R.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 6:41 pm”
The Democrats don’t equal the Republicans. But Corporate Personhood is shifting the spectrum steadily to the right so that Hillary Clinton must now feed at their teat if she wants a shot in hell at the Presidency. No thanks. I want Gore as a moderate independent to come in and get us back to the middle (as in moderation) where a democracy runs best.
The next time you want to have a civil discourse with other people, don’t fly off and insult them - just offer your contrary facts (I’m still waiting for them, by the way) like the rest of us do. Sheesh paul - if I ran my classroom like you compose your comments, I’d have been locked in a car trunk somewhere by now… Hmmm is that where you are?
May 21st, 2007 at 6:56 pmHere is one example I pulled off Google. There are several others:
“…Zinn is WRONG ON HISTORICAL FACT, not that he is wrong in his passionate socialism or other details of his coverage of our history.
“His ‘People’s History’ is demonstrably full of errors or half-truths.
“A convenient example I have mentioned here before, namely the oft-misquoted Jefferson statement about how revolution feeds the tree of liberty. If you actually read the CONTEXT of that statement, Jefferson was making the OPPOSITE point. He was defending the Shay’s rebels from hanging in his letter to Madison — he was NOT suggesting that he supported regular revolutions. Indeed, he says in the same letter that one rebellion in 150 years does not suggest that the people cannot be trusted not to rebel — rather the contrary.
“Paul in LA | 03.03.07 - 8:03 pm (Crooks & Liars)
May 21st, 2007 at 7:01 pm“I’m open to vibes and stuff. Its that unseen energy you deny. ;)
Comment by ForTruth — May 21, 2007 @ 6:53 pm”
Oh, I accept the unseen energy. I just don’t accept that we can control it as much as we think we do.
I read a couple different books at the same time. One of them is “Why People Believe Weird Things”. One of the topics is why peope believe that psychics can commune with the dead. One of the tricks to this belief is that people dismiss the ‘misses’ and only remember the ‘hits’. I think the same process applies to ‘vibes’ or other such coincidental acts. We want to be connected to one another - social animals that we are - that we focus more on the ‘hits’ (or in your case the ‘vibes’ :)
May 21st, 2007 at 7:02 pmGore is a DEMOCRAT. He will not run as an independent, ever. I believe I will be voting for him in 2008, and he will win by landslide (for the second time).
As for ‘insulting,’
““Well, here’s a clue, Gore is a DEMOCRAT.â€
You CAN change party affliation, Sherlock Holmes.
“We do need Gore as President. On that we agree.â€
Then stop being a prick.
…Then by all means, big mouth,”
Compare with what I have posted. It is YOU who are using insults instead of arguments.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:04 pm“I QUOTED you. That’s the meaning of ‘what you are saying.’”
No you didn’t. You attempted to put words in my mouth that were easier for you to insult. They didn’t taste that great, so I didn’t swallow them (that was for you ForTruth)
“is that there is a monolithic conspiracy behind US foreign policy that involves setting up an Empire– you are NOT talking about ‘interests.’ It’s a stardard canard on the left, but that does not make it inherently true.â€
You already said this and I already told you that logic dictates that a country NOT interested in building an Empire would not have so many military bases around the world where there are strategic interests. Iraq is just one more ‘interest’ - since Saudi Arabia kicked us out and Turkey hasn’t been as supportive - we needed a new ‘Middle East Oil’ interest stronghold.
“You have proven, so far, nothing.”
I’ve proven that you don’t know what you’re talking about… Granted, you did most of the work, but nonetheless…
“Compare to ‘what you are saying,’ above.”
The same.
“That’s your thesis. It’s not ‘proven’ just because you continue to restate it.”
I’ve given proof above. You’ve given nothing. You’re hardly in a position to lob that particular grenade…
“I can debunk Zinn any time, any place. He LIES in his books, he writes propaganda — it does not matter that Ward Churchill is a University professor — there are PLENTY of liars who are professors.”
And yet you keep saying it, but I’ve yet to see any proof. Either step up and do it, or just shut up. Repeating it over and over doesn’t make it true.
“You don’t get to make your argument by telling me they are professors.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 6:53 pm”
I wasn’t. I was merely pointing out that you have a problem with them, when most intelligent people respect their wisdom based on years of peer-review, research, analysis and access to lots and lots of up-to-date information. Kinda like you going to a medical doctor rather than a witch doctor for the same reasons when you’re ill…
May 21st, 2007 at 7:12 pmDubya is still looking for a long-term source of nice, cheap oil, this to profit his buddies at the expense of our (not his) children.
and he calls himself a christian
May 21st, 2007 at 7:15 pm“As for ‘insulting,’”
Actually, it’s sarcasm… It requires more thought than staright up insults and it’s much more amusing…
So, this is what you have? The pot calling the kettle black? Ouch, paul, you didn’t have to be so brutal… I’m just going to have to go cry now. That really and deeply hurt…
(See - that’s sarcasm. Less vulgar than your variety of insults. You should try it. It’s fun).
“Compare with what I have posted. It is YOU who are using insults instead of arguments.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 21, 2007 @ 7:04 pm”
No, I used sarcasm mixed in with my arguments. Come on paul, keep up… LOL
May 21st, 2007 at 7:17 pmpaul - where’s your brilliant debunking of Howard Zinn? Hmmm? You’re the one who has insisted…
I’ll tell you what - I’ve gotta run for a bit, but I’ll check in later and see what you’ve come up with.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:20 pmWell, it ain’t gonna work. First, the invasion and occupation was illegal. The US/UK coalition did not have the UN authority to invade and would no get it as Iraq was complying with the UN demand to disarm. Second, the UN approved the de facto occupation of Iraq in 2004 and again in 2006 so that the US could provide security for the reconstruction, the election of a new Iraq government, and help with the training of a new Iraqi army. This UN mandate is conditional and may be withdrawn at the request of the Iraqis at any time. It expires at the end of this year.
Now, if permanent occupation is the intent of the Bush government, they will have a tough time getting the Iraqis to agree to it. And just what is with this vain desire for oil when Global Warming is requiring we give up our use of fossil fuels? It seems to me that this war has been a war of folly since the get go.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:20 pmI already posted an example, Zinn’s repeating of a famous canard about Jefferson’s ‘watering the tree of liberty’ statement.
Zinn also pretends that Thomas Jefferson had sex with his slaves, which is clearly untrue, entirely unsubstantiated, RIGHT wing propaganda.
The left and the right love their propaganda.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:23 pmFor what purpose do we need hermetically sealed bases in Iraq and what if the American public doesn’t want them there? Do we just go and get another American public who does? This is exactly what the Iraqis feared would happen and it’s being directed not by the Pentagon or the Administration but by War profiteers and the oil corporations and the military industrial complex and these are not America.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:23 pmDon’t be surprised if Dubya declares martial law and declares himself president if he is refuted by congress.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:25 pmThe UK Independent reports that the US Army tried to murder Muqtada alSadr. Now that’s the way to win hearts and minds.
See: Exclusive: Secret US plot to kill al-Sadr.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:27 pmDubya, heathen, does NOT have the manpower needed to declare martial law.
It would take 100,000 troops to maintain martial law in Los Angeles alone. This kind of unfounded hysteric fear is hampering our efforts to fix what’s wrong with America.
We need to demand indictments, not run around the barnyard banging pots and pans about the sky falling. Bush’s coup pretty much fell apart in 2003 — we need to remove him from office, and we need to investigate and indict everyone involved in his crimes. Those are much more prosaic (and URGENT) tasks than martial law rumormongering.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:33 pm“It is YOU who are using insults instead of arguments.
“No, I used sarcasm mixed in with my arguments.”
You have used sarcastic insults, not arguments. Your argument basically consisted of an out-of-date list of US bases, and the fact that Chalmers Johnson is a professor.
Wow, you bowled us all over. Your insults are just that, insults, and the reason why you put them there is because your argument is unsupportable. Just like Tobey, you split when that was pointed out.
May 21st, 2007 at 7:36 pmThese permanent bases are the elephant under the living room carpet in US politics.
For obvious reasons, BushCo doesn’t want to talk about them.
And for some strange reason, the Dems never do either. Do they agree with keeping permanent bases there, or are they simply ignorant of what’s happening?
I just can’t believe that people like us know and somehow Congressional Dems don’t.
Of course, the media would far rather talk about Paris Hilton.
May 21st, 2007 at 8:14 pmand then plan B, attack Iran.
May 21st, 2007 at 8:24 pmEnemies to American democracy:
Corporate America/ elitists (media in this category)
May 21st, 2007 at 9:02 pmRNC
DNC
AIPAC
CONSERVATIVES (of ALL stripes)
Post #42 said, “I’m updating my name in light of this, as well, to Not Canadian Yet.
I seriously do not want to raise my children in this mindless mess of a paranoid-neo-conservative country.”
*Sigh* Canadians would really, really prefer that those who emigrate to Canada do so because they LIKE Canada, not because they want to get away from the mess their country has become. When you move here, you have to become pro-Canadian, not merely anti-American. Canada is a great place to live, but you really have to WANT our values before deciding to move here, please.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:20 pm#127
DLC
May 21st, 2007 at 9:22 pmpeedeecee, I think most liberals are pro-Canada. Just because they are sick of Bush does not make them less so.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:26 pm…”O.I.L”….Operation Iraqi Liberation….Was always was about oil. Bush is the only person in history to drill 3 holes in Texas and come up dry! He has gutted the Constitution and destroyed the credibility of the U.S. worldwide. His legacy will be the collapse of the all volunteer military. My kid will live in Canada before I let him die in Iraq!
May 21st, 2007 at 9:43 pmSo,…..here we are, big surprise. What did Bush just rent the movie 3 days of the Condor? Late,…but I guess administrations work slowly.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:45 pmJosey, he must have rented it because he certainly didn’t read the book.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:51 pm“For obvious reasons, BushCo doesn’t want to talk about them.
“And for some strange reason, the Dems never do either. Do they agree with keeping permanent bases there, or are they simply ignorant of what’s happening?” –Worst. President. Ever.
What I think you will eventually find out, Worst, is that there are 10,000+ (or some ridiculous number) of secret national security letters which specifically bar any official mention of those lilly pads, or any of HUNDREDS of acts and policies by Bushco.
We WILL be removing these people from power, and we WILL be unwinding the chokehold Bushco has put on the right to speak out. Senator Schumer and others have already said that they are blocked from exposing various aspects of what has been going on. And until Bush is NOT President, those kinds of NS letters are binding, and especially on legal actors in our government.
May 21st, 2007 at 9:57 pmGotta keep feeding that MIC. It has a never-ending appetite, and loves a large bank account.
May 21st, 2007 at 10:00 pm“Dont pay any attention to the man behind the curtain”
May 21st, 2007 at 10:12 pm“The Pentagon’s goal with the lily pads is to preserve U.S. interests in Iraq for years to come “
Perhaps they can explain what these “U.S. interests” in Iraq are. Could it have anything to do with oil? Nah…We just want to hang around so that they know we still care.
In order to accomplish a plan like this, the Republics need to maintain control of the government. The more plans like this that come into the light of day, the more the Republics are guaranteeing their defeat in 2008.
May 21st, 2007 at 11:18 pmPace is crazy if he things the American people will go along with this.
May 21st, 2007 at 11:50 pmDuh! Really? What a shock!…
Here’s another bit of proof that the US will NEVER leave Iraq….never mind the decades nonsense. We’re talking NEVER:
CLICK HERE
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:04 amIt’s time to march on Washington and occupy it until the troops are withdrawn. That’s what the American voters voted for, and that is what we DEMAND!
No more of these one day marches will do. Only a permanent siege surrounding both the White House and Congress by WE THE PEOPLE will put our D.C. employees in their places.
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:48 amWhat a shocker ! Yeah right , they have not been building the worlds biggest ” Embassy ” and permanent mega military bases in Iraq for nothing . Notice the media and even the Dems won’t touch this subject , you don’t hear a word about it . Karim ( ” Pace is crazy if he things the American people will go along with this” ) I’m afraid the American people are irrelevant anymore as far as this government is concerned . We the American people , lazy , ignorant , apathetic and stupid have let this government get out of control and sadly we have become too pathetic of a society to reign them back in . I hope I am wrong but …
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:06 amBush and his accomplices in the Congress intend to keep bases and troops in Iraq for at least 30 years. That is the time needed to extract 90% of Iraq’s untapped OIL reserves.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:39 am“Pace is crazy if he things the American people will go along with this.” –Karim
A major dark horse problem is Newt Gingrich. Gingrich was and is directly involved in the PNAC planning for FORMER-Iraq. He has his own parking slot at the Pentagon. He would seem to be an unindicted co-conspirator in major crimes. A Huckabee/Gingrich ticket or some other absurdity, forced on the country through another gross election fraud, would set off riots and propel us further down into the Pit.
The Iran attack issue controls this year, which is how I read the immigration push, which Rapepublicans say will eat up several weeks of Congress’s energy; pushing us toward the June target dates, and taking heat off Gonzales.
If we cannot, for instance, force Gonzales out by June, it may not be possible afterwards for awhile.
My main reason for remonstrating with Tobey’s ‘Bush is hiring the Martians’ mythology and unbelievable’s (and the left’s) facile monolithic ‘Empire theory’ is that we do need to survive a series of “counter-efforts” in our process of removing these major criminals from our government, and into prison.
We do not need to be hysterically considering Chalmers Johnson’s polemics and blaming everyone; we very much need solidarity with everyone who is not a Bushco crony, and an efficient process toward the removal of Bushco cronies.
I would remind the blog that Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi came to power at the head of a 2/3 NAY vote on the Iraq Resolution. Senator Kerry SPECIFICALLY rebuked any ’staying in Iraq’ foreign policy, while at the same time OUTING the PNAC, and the very lilly pads we’re talking about, in the first debate of 2004.
Repairing the DoJ, bringing down the AG, is VERY IMPORTANT, hardly anything available more important than that. But the Chalmerites are thinking in centuries. They, and a lot of disaffiliated leftists DO NOT do anything about opportunities like bringing down an AG.
If people en masse demanded his resignation, it might help. Don’t expect, though, Chalmers Johnson or Dem Now! to organize the effort. They’re looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:36 am“Notice the media and even the Dems won’t touch this subject , you don’t hear a word about it” –John Kooms
John, please see my comments at 9:57 pm.
There is little doubt that Bush has barred specific people and corporations from mentioning NS issues. There is a speech block, a lot of gag orders with his signature, and he is the President, and we are illegally at war ‘legally.’ So the media won’t cover, because like the telco’s they have been ordered not to disclose, and to lie about that fact. And I also believe that committees in the Congress are under a general gag order — as Sen. Schumer seems to have confirmed.
None of that is legal, and being bound by such orders is a dishonor, and I don’t think the bands will hold, not with 25% approval ratings and sinking. We will have the DoJ under new and less partial management, and let the Abramov prosecutions come forth!
There are a bunch of Rapepublicans who need to continue the Exodus of their kind.
A Biblical Flood is going to strike that party, if we can restart the burners on the DoJ.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:48 amummm, I don’t think the public is going to go for that.
Comment by Republicans are the Fear and Smear Party — May 21, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
145 comments and no mention that this is also the policy of the current frontrunner for the Democrat nomination.
How proud you all must feel with the bubble you’ve built.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:19 am“Notice the media and even the Dems won’t touch this subject , you don’t hear a word about it [leaving troops in Iraq]†–John Kooms
John, please see my comments at 9:57 pm.
Comment by Paul in LA — May 22, 2007 @ 2:48 am
Your comment at 9:57 doesn’t even refer to what he was talking about.
I would correct him though. Hillary has spoken about it:
Clinton: If elected president, we will stay in Iraq
Maybe by “Dems” he meant Democrat supporters like the 144 we see here. If he did, he’s not wrong. Not a peep out of any of em, even when pressed.
The word “stay” appears just 3 times on this page, including the URL I just posted.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:28 am#127 Comment by big papa — May 21, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
Enemies to American democracy:
Corporate America/ elitists (media in this category)
RNC
DNC
AIPAC
CONSERVATIVES (of ALL stripes)
I don’t consider the DNC to be “Enemies to American democracy”. Now the DLC, that is another story.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:49 am#126 Comment by plan B — May 21, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
and then plan B, attack Iran.
There is no Plan B. Your Plan B is part of Plan A
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 am