Right-Wing Solution To Undocumented Immigration: ‘Make America A More Inhospitable Place’
Right-Wing Solution To Undocumented Immigration: ‘Make America A More Inhospitable Place’
The immigration compromise reached last week is a flawed deal, an attempt to “bridge the chasm between brittle hard-liners who want the country to stop absorbing so many outsiders, and those who want to give immigrants — illegal ones, too — a fair and realistic shot at the American dream.” Yet it represents a critical first step toward fixing our shattered immigration system and providing a path to citizenship for most of the 12 million undocumented immigrants living in the country today.
Yesterday on PBS’s Newshour, Jessica Vaughan of the conservative Center for Immigration Studies, argued that the best way to “deal with the problem” would be to make “this a more inhospitable place to be for people who are working in the country illegally.” She added that “people are eventually going to give up and go home on their own. And that’s what the American people most definitely wants to see happen.” Watch it:
Many people on the right wing — such as Vaughan — are opposed not only to this bill, but to any deal that doesn’t immediately deport every undocumented immigrant. CNN host Lou Dobbs recently said that “because this is the United States,” it is possible to deport all undocumented immigrants. Today on NPR, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) advocated that the U.S. government “round them up.”
Additionally, the overwhelming majority of Americans — 80 percent — support the process of earned citizenship.
Transcript:
RAY SUAREZ: Could you really deal with the problem, as you both see it, by simply making this a more inhospitable place to be for people who are working in the country illegally?
JESSICA VAUGHAN: Absolutely. [...]
SUAREZ: What would your organization have done differently in addressing this very large group of people?
VAUGHAN: Well, what we need to do is make it impossible for illegal aliens to find work legally. And we need to cut off the job magnet and eventually people — and make it impossible for people to get driver’s licenses, to live here as if they were legal.
If we simply enforce the laws that we have on the books already — and that doesn’t require any new legislation — people are eventually going to give up and go home on their own. And that’s what the American people most definitely wants to see happen.
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Ah, the old tripwire, fougass and machine gun nest strategy. How quaint.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pmproviding a path to citizenship for most of the 12 million undocumented immigrants living in the country today.
Why should we provide a path to 12 million illegals? Build the wall, strengthen and enforce hiring practices, and over the next few years the issue will sort itself out.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:02 pmFantastic! That’s all this country needs–more people acting like douchebags to each other. The Lord Jesus would be so proud.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmIsn’t it like that already?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmSure thing, Jessica. Though I think you should be the one to tell those upper-crust New York Moms on Central Park West that their nannies and housekeepers will have to go home. I doubt you’d come back alive.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:06 pmi know the answer but why not FINE THE S**T out of businesses that hire them.
Talk about turning off the faucet, if they can’t make money, why would they come here?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmBoy this is a hard one, close to the area that I live thousands of them have moved in, and it is not pretty. They pretty much destroyed that area of town, too many gangs, unpleasant at the least, don’t know if this one has an answer. Oh on a personal note I had one steal $800 from my wife, I was not happy about that, we don’t travel thru there anymore.
The unsolved problem is unsolvable.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmhow about this “weird” concept – welcome whomever wants to come here with open arms. But, don’t force anyone to pay for their education, their health, and the rest.
That way, we’ll still uphold what’s good about this country – liberty – and at the same time do just what the founders wanted…..welcome everyone “yearning to be free”
We should never criminalize those people who are simply trying to get to a better place…
All this garbage about walls, and troops on the border is nothing more than power and control….it needs to stop.
Some thoughts:
“The Immigration Scam”
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/the_immigration_scam
welcome whomever wants to come here with open arms. But, don’t force anyone to pay for their education, their health, and the rest.
So wheres the money going to come from then? The Feds?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:13 pmIt’s a Win-Win for the Right. Cheap Labor and A Scapegoat.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:15 pmHow about arresting those – the corporations and big businesses that break the law in hiring the undocumented? If the undocumented had no work they would leave.
Can’t have that… may lose some contributions.
Sorry middle class America – as long as the laws are broken middle class goes down. Just what the neocons want.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pmI agree with #8. We should allow anyone to come here as they wish. We should also 100% completely stop payment of any health care, education, or social services of any type for anyone that isn’t a citizen. Allow them to come illegally, but don’t give them American tax payer services. Reserve those services for those that waited their turn and came legally.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pmwhat happened to basic human decency? let’s just treat illegal aliens as inhumanely as possible and so maybe they’ll all just leave. let them starve to death and die without healthcare and be victimized without access to the justice system. i’m all for security measures to prevent more people from coming illegally, but we need to treat the ones here with dignity and respect as fellow humans, not some unwanted pests that can just be squashed without regard to the implications for families and lives.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pmjESSICA DOES BRING UP A GOOD POINT. iF WE ACTUALLY enforced OUR CURRENT IMMIGRATION LAWS, WE MIGHT ALREADY HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF (DAMN YOU CAPS lock!!!!sorry all..) progress….
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:18 pmRE: post #’s 8&9
“But, don’t force anyone to pay for their education, their health, and the rest.”
I think the poster #8 meant not force the American government (read taxpayer) to pay for their education, health (care?), etc….
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:19 pmI don’t agree with the immigration deal for so many reasons, but suffice to say that I doubt our Republican Lite Party is not thinking with its wallet when it supports this bill.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmYou know I am a little wary of this issue as well. I have nothing against the folks that come here just to make a better life for themselves, but from what I understand the employer enforcement in the new bill is almost nil. And I don’t want to sound rude, but it seems our lack of organization on this issue is preventing us from absorbing some of the 2 million Iraqi engineers, teacher, and other professionals that are currently refugees because of our complete and total failure tp plan in Iraq.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:21 pmThe best solution is to take away all the illegal’s rights. Take away free healthcare, take away the anchor baby loophole and take away the jobs by busting businesses that hire them. I think that is what was meant by being less hospitable.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 pmheyzeus
I think the poster #8 meant not force the American government (read taxpayer) to pay for their education, health (care?), etc….
Ah, right, thanks
So let them come into the nation, then do nothing to support them in regards to education or health? Thats a Trojan horse argument if I’ve ever heard one.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:22 pmwhat happened to basic human decency? let’s just treat illegal aliens as inhumanely as possible and so maybe they’ll all just leave. let them starve to death and die without healthcare and be victimized without access to the justice system. i’m all for security measures to prevent more people from coming illegally, but we need to treat the ones here with dignity and respect as fellow humans, not some unwanted pests that can just be squashed without regard to the implications for families and lives.
Comment by kaitlyn
We should treat them with the same dignity that they have treated our laws by coming here illegally.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pmComment by Roger_Roger — May 22, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Fair comment. I believe that you’re also saying that anyone who hires an illegal should be clobbered with a disproportionate fine compared to the crime they are committing. Hell, they are breaking the law aren’t they?
I back you on that one Roger
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pmDemocrats are wrong on this issue.
Close the border.
Send them home.
Then we will talk.
Every other position is bull.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pmNow would be a more appropriate time for the gynormous “mission Accomplished” banner…
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm“Additionally, the overwhelming majority of Americans — 80 percent — support the process of earned citizenship.”
The part about them paying back taxes and having a job was left off.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:25 pm** Republicans have certainly done their best to make America a worse place to live for everyone. **
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:25 pmComment by EasyRider — May 22, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
So you agree that any person or company that hires an illegal should be clobbered with the full weight of the law.
I’m with you on this EasyRider. So many people shift the blame onto the immigrants but ignore the people who hire them. That you have the honesty to come out and admit that the people hiring are as guilty as the immigrants is very brave.
I salute you.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmI am amazed at people who just say that we should take in everyone who wants to come. That isn’t even smart. We only have a finite number of resources in this country, and we’re about at the breaking point. We just simply can’t afford this economically. Also, we must have a Southern barrier…nice words about how bad that would “look” will not mean much when those who would do us harm come in through the Southern border. We are very, very vulnerable. I think some people are a bunch of Pollyannas, who say: “Oh, let’s just open our arms wide and let in everyone! The world just looks SO nice when I’m wearing these rose-colored glasses.” I’ve just had it with such lazy thinking. It’s time for Americans to grow up.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:33 pmOn another note. The SD police chief mentioned a while ago that we have 20,000 unserved FELONY warrants. So if we can’t muster the funds required, to hire the man power, to serve felony warrants how on earth would we deport 12,000,000 people. That is just the most illogical thing I have ever heard of.
Here is the doc from the SD Grand Jury report and it is 2 years old. It’s all that I could find online:
http://www.co.san-diego.ca.us/grandjury/reports/2005_2006/FELONYWARRANTS.doc
PS I believe California has nearly 300,000 unserved felony warrants. maybe we should start there.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:34 pmI prefer making the USA more inhospitable to BIGOTS and RACISTS who do not realize their own ancestors were “immigrants” at one time too.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 pmI prefer making the USA more inhospitable to BIGOTS and RACISTS who do not realize their own ancestors were “immigrants†at one time too.
Comment by BrianS
My ancestors came here LEGALLY through Ellis Island
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:37 pmThe Dems folded (again): Agreement near on Iraq funding bill
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 pmI think Brian has nailed it. There are elements of the extreme right that have adopted this issue as an opportunity to display their racist views out in the open. I would suggest that Republicans, when they adopt the more hard line view of taking it out on the immigrant, are setting themselves up for electoral losses. Like being pro-segregation, I think being pro-deportation will be a very unpopular viewpoint going forward.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pmTake away health care for the illegals. I am sure that Jesus would approve. Do any Americans believe in ” the golden rule ” anymore ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm#22 You understand that it is businesses, most probaly in GOP hands that are fueling the immigration issue. They keep hiring and working these folks at low wages. You don’t complain when you buy that new house built in part by illegals, or have them do your yard and garden at cheap rates and they do a great job. But go to the ER and have to wait hours because they are crowding the facility and then its time for them to go home. Lets stop the hypocracy, blam businesses and the politicians they buy. The corporatist are the real enemy.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 pmI bet 80% of the American people dont support absorbing the entire worlds population of people that want to come here.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pmWhat is interesting is the comment by 7
What is true is that people are intimidated by immigrants. What is more debatable is that there is anything more to it than that. In the UK the tabloids continually tell horror stories about immigrants from eastern europe/asia/africa lining up to claim money from the state.
Actually, claiming money from the state is dependent on residency- this I know from experience. Most immigrants here tend to be exploited by dubious employers because of their lack of English and a lack of knowledge of labour laws and so on. While it is disconcerting to hear a lot of people speaking Serbian, or Lithuanian, or Spanish in this case, we have to accept that these are amongst the most vulnerable in society.
As Gary Younge wrote today, the problem isn’t diverting funds from the white poor to the black/hispanic poor, the problem is the fact that an entrenched largely white minority has a virtual monopoly upon wealth.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:46 pmTimmy, you’re an ass. We had much lartger quotas for immigration in your ancestors’ time, and the corporations wanted cheap labor then as much as they do now. The difference is they refuse to pay a living wage or their fair share of taxes, so they are happy to hire illegal immigrants.
Kaitlyn, I like you. Thank you for being the first person to mention human decency on the thread.
Who’s going to pick the produce and slaughter the chickens?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:49 pmAmericans have proved unwilling to do their own dirty work. Are we going to have forced labor camps to make up the difference?
Take away health care for the illegals. I am sure that Jesus would approve. Do any Americans believe in †the golden rule †anymore ?
Comment by proudleftists
Since many Americans can’t afford healthcare why should illegals that don’t pay taxes and send much of what they earn illegally back to Mexico get any?
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:50 pm#35 ggibson –
I don’t believe that statement adds anything to the conversation. If you want to hold a straw man competition please do it elsewhere.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:51 pmComment by had enough — May 22, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
Good point. The Dems reject a total failure of foreign policy. How dare they! Surely killing more people is the solution.
Once again, those who don’t learn from History are condemned to repeat it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmTimmy, you’re an ass. We had much lartger quotas for immigration in your ancestors’ time, and the corporations wanted cheap labor then as much as they do now. The difference is they refuse to pay a living wage or their fair share of taxes, so they are happy to hire illegal immigrants.
Kaitlyn, I like you. Thank you for being the first person to mention human decency on the thread.
Who’s going to pick the produce and slaughter the chickens?
Americans have proved unwilling to do their own dirty work. Are we going to have forced labor camps to make up the difference?
Comment by SKdeA
If illegals don’t do the jobs they will be done -actually for a higher wage. Illegals have driven down the wages below minimum wage so Americans can’t do the jobs legally.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmThe Federal Government has already accomplished much towards this goal:
“Jessica Vaughan of the conservative Center for Immigration Studies, argued that the best way to “deal with the problem†would be to make “this a more inhospitable place to be for people who are working...”
And, yes, I’m no longer distinguishing between Democrats and Republicans.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmShe’d change her mind after having a latin lover.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:53 pmPS I believe California has nearly 300,000 unserved felony warrants. maybe we should start there.
Comment by ben
More than 25% of all federal prisoners are illegals.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:54 pmTurn America into a Moon scape and the Mexicans won’t come here. I don’t think this idea was thought threw.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:54 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire
I fully agree there is no real difference between the two parties.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:59 pmI don’t believe that statement adds anything to the conversation. If you want to hold a straw man competition please do it elsewhere.
Comment by ben
No straw man needed.. I been on this site for years and it has been consistantly said by many that there is no need to limit immigration at all.. try again.
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:59 pmComment by Timmy — May 22, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
So the problem is with companies hiring as low as they can? How dare you attack the marketplace! Are you a commie or something?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:07 pmTimmy – ALL AMERICANS and ALL PEOPLE DESERVE HEALTH CARE as a human right. All immigrants legal or otherwise are not Mexican, and ” the golden rule ” sounds good to me. Too bad America has so much hate and think that they have a right to everything while everyone else is just so much cr*p !
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:10 pmWait till you’re all older and you can’t have your social security funds, and you get zero or crappy medical attention because the system has broken completely on non-paying immigrants.
Stop being the nice guy and be the realistic guy.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmI don’t ask much, just that you think about issues a little.
So the problem is with companies hiring as low as they can? How dare you attack the marketplace! Are you a commie or something?
Comment by UKBristolDave
Of course the companies play a huge role in the problem.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:11 pmTimmy – ALL AMERICANS and ALL PEOPLE DESERVE HEALTH CARE as a human right. All immigrants legal or otherwise are not Mexican, and †the golden rule †sounds good to me. Too bad America has so much hate and think that they have a right to everything while everyone else is just so much cr*p !
Comment by proudleftists
When it is Americana’s tax payer’s money that pays for the health care Americans do doserve more than illegals. Maybe you should be blaming the Mexican government or other governments that force aliens to come here illegally.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:14 pm#44 Interesting point. I believe the number is 17%. However, I believe that is evidence to my argument that you cannot deport 12,000,000 people. Assuming that illegal immigrants also make up 17% of the userved felony warrants. If we cannot deport felony illegal immigrants we certainly don’t have the man power to deport immigrants in violation of civil codes.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm#47 ggibson – I apologize I honestly thought you were being sarcastic.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:18 pmComment by Timmy — May 22, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
So lets punish anyone who hires an illegal with a $1 million fine. Problem sorted.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:18 pmI don’t think it states anywhere on the bill that this is only for mexican illegal immigrants. So any foreigners,like those from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran or maybe Syria..can be legalized too. Won’t that be a comfort? And no one has mentioned the immunization requirements or medical clearance that present LEGAL immigrants must pass? Businesses that hire illegal should loose their assests just like drug dealers do.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:21 pmThese are the people who wash our dishes, clean our bed pans and toilets, pick our fruit and cut our meat but we’re somehow going to make their lives here even more inhospitable? I’d be hard pressed to say how.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pm“Allow them to come illegally, but don’t give them American tax payer services.”
You do realize that undocumented folks pay taxes, right? Lots of them own homes and pay property taxes. Lots of them have cars and pay for license plates, city or county stickers. If they’re on a payroll (if they have forged documents,) they pay taxes, and they don’t get a refund, and they never collect social security. They pay sales tax, too.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:32 pmSend them home:
How much will that cost and who is going to pay for it?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:41 pmAre we ready as a Nation to see pictures on TV of people being dragged out of their homes and deported?
Are we ready for the images of the mass riots the will ensue?
Someone, anyone give an example of when a large wall actually worked?
Before 1921 there was no such thing as an illegal alien. Anyone who wanted to come, could. No quotas, no applications. People just came on the boat and showed up. So let’s not do the ‘my folks came here legally.”
And everybody seems to jump up and down about illegals coming here and going on welfare. That’s dishonest: why should a Mexican family come up here where the gringos despise them, where it’s horribly cold in the winter, where they could get preyed upon mercilessly? The answer is simple: work.
Mexico provides free education AND free medical care, in case you didn’t know.
And for those who shout ‘They’re breaking the LAW!” there’s the problem that there is simply no way foran unskilled laborer to come here legally. The law, in this case is simply ‘no soup for you.’
These workers, if they take legitimate jobs under false pretenses, are pouring payroll taxes into the system that they won’t be able to collect on. If they’re working under the radar, they’re making American businessmen far richer than they’d be otherwise. In both cases they’re pouring value into the US economy.
But all that gets ignored when they talk about education! and health care! asifthey’re greedily sucking us dry. The other side of the balance sheet is completely ignored.
The solution? Let them apply–but let them in. The reality of our economy is that it wants and needs manual labor. Don’t make it official policy to exclude manual labor from the quotas. Let’s let everyone apply–and we don’t even have to have an amnesty: anybody whose been here illegally pays a fine–that gets taken out of their paychecks until it’s paid.
Mexicans are wonderful people. They are warm, friendly, family people, generous to a fault. They contribute immensely to the life of my city. They bring a lotto the American table. (I for one love hearing the language of Cervantes, Neruda, and GarcÃa Lorca filling the air–and the sound of little kids shouting “Mira! Mira!” as they laugh and shriek.)
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:50 pmSo, we displace millions of Iraqis and we don’t have the decency to give them a place to stay? Nice.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:53 pm#50 kvb – You don’t know me and you don’t know anything about me. Why don’t you address the topic instead of trying to belittle the people here? By making statements like that, you are making yourself sound ignorant and I don’t think you are.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:08 pmTimmy and others who are clueless on immigration:
The majority of the illegal alien population came legally through the Air, Land and Seaports of this country. They were let in on visa as tourist or temporary workers and never left. Sealing the border will not affect Overstays one bit. The Poles, Irish, Serbs et al came legally and overstayed. Nothing in this bill will change that fact.
Further the Guest worker programs will exacerbate the problem. What do you call a Guest Worker? It’s a Permanent resident. The old Bracero program of the 40’s and 50’s led to a problem in the 60 and 70’s requiring a change in immigration law in 64 legalizing those workers.
The Germans have the same problems with the Turks that they brought in the 50’s, they never left. Why after letting someone into the country with a high standard of living, would that person choose to go back to a hovel? They won’t.
And for the record I have been in law enforcement and immigration for over 20 years.
It won’t work. Snd deporting 12 to 20 million people will not happen either. We don’t have the resources. And when we start breaking up families with US Childern the deportations will stop.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:17 pmApparently Amanda is incapable of interpreting simple English language statements, falsely accusing Vaughn of wanting to “immediately deport every undocumented immigrant”. In fact, Amanda included a quote in the previous paragraph that doesn’t support her claim.
Can’t this site hire better people?
As for the linked poll, RuyTeixeira isn’t exactly known for putting facts ahead of his agenda.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:18 pmCBS Poll: 56% of all DEMOCRATS want all illegals arrested and deported. If the governemtn would enforce the immigration laws, there would be no “immigration crisis.” With Dubya, everything’s a crisis. Now the Dems are starting it.
Funny, they can’t secure the borders or implement counterfeit-proof IDs unless they amnesty all the illegals first. Gotta wonder about that.
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:25 pmLet’s make America a better place to live. Let’s keep out the Iraq’s.
Iraq’s Learning Spanish Before Crossing to America!
“A LINE IN THE SAND CONFRONTING THE THREAT AT THE SOUTHWEST BORDER” (Iraq’s pg 29) Senator Mc Caul’s 10th Distict Texas Website
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/
Question? How can you distinguish between an Iraq’s that is well versed in Spanish/Mexican/South American languages?
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:29 pmMy whole problem with the bill is simply that it undermines the whole legalization process. What would even be the purpose then of entering the country legally, when you can sneak in and then pay and become a citizen. What about people who have been on the various lists for years waiting to enter or those who are better entitled to enter. I don’t really see how this would benefit the country
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:35 pm‘A LINE IN THE SAND”
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:36 pmThe solution is simple. Make it illegal for a business to knowingly or otherwise hire, rent or sell to an illegal immigrant. Establish strong fines and enforceit. Illegals who no longer wish to live here without jobs or homes will be allowed to freely pass back from whence they came. If they have American children, they will have to make Sophie’s choice, won’t they? Once most of the illegals are back in their homelands, then, and only then can we think about a policy of letting some or all of them back in as legal immigrants.
And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.
Get the illegals OUT now. The left needs to understand that people are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not immigrants. The left tries to paint every one who disagrees with them with the same brush strokes. That is a tactic I’m more used to coming from the right and it is very disturbing. It implies that the left is as full of “true believers” as the right.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 pmI’m not happy about so many illegals in out country, But I’m absolutely furious with out government for creating this problem and their cowardice in addressing it now. Even in the new proposals its clear that they will not enforce the laws. They still cannot even handle student visas 6 years after 9/11. Anybody that thinks the US Government competent enough to administer this proposed bureaucratic boondoggle is a naive fool.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:00 pmSo let’s see, Republicans hire them, but then they want to make the conditions ever worse. Too late for that. Perhaps if they weren’t giving them work, they’d stop coming. This problem is mainly a problem in the Red States who funnily enough, vote Republican.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:16 pmWell, just as long as the right-wingers include all the ILLEGAL CUBANS who get automatic “asylum” when they enter this country.
Of course, that’ll never happen. Right-wingers can’t piss off the only Hispanics who consistently vote for them.
I also support the notion that all businesses (including the multi-millionaires–and above) who hire illegals be slapped with fines (a minimum of $11,532*) for every illegal hired for every year that even one illegal was hired. (This means that if a business had hired 1000 illegals over the last ten years, it would be subject to a minimum fine of $11,532,000.) Just to make things even more fun: These fines would NOT be factored into dividends paid to shareholders nor could a business pass on the cost of these fines to its customers nor would a business be permitted to “trim” other costs (such as layoffs) unless those other costs came from executive bonuses.
*That figure comes from a $5.15/hr minimum wage times 40 hours times 52 weeks ($10,712) plus the FICA and Medicare taxes ($820) on that figure. I suggest this as a minimum since most businesses don’t generally hire illegals at the minimum wage nor is the pay to illegals subject to Social Security or Medicare taxes. I’d also think it would be reasonable to include the amounts that would be paid out in Federal, State and Local taxes as well, but that would vary from place to place.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:59 pmThis is Bush’s biggest failure.
We need an electrified fence, along with armed guards shooting at crossers.
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:05 amPost by oldfart:
“And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.”
Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of an “illegal”. Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 amJust because the Indians sold something they didn’t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesn’t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminals–Georgia began as a prison colony).
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants. (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldn’t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those “free will” notions.)
I agree with her. NO AMNESTY!
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:36 amCongratulations Saywho. Now tell us why.
May 23rd, 2007 at 1:07 amI cant expect idiots to get it but
Kick out the “illegals” and watch you’re basic products go thru the roof while more jobs are exported to foreign countries.
Who do you think the companies that are fined are going to have pay that fine for hiring an illegal.
The consumer.
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:39 amI love how Bush riddicules the Iranians and Syrians about their borders when we can’t protect our own.
GOP – The Hypocritical party.
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:41 amThe problem is that no matter where you draw the line, there will always be a dividing line between citizen of the US and illegal. Unless you want to simply give them citizenship, you cannot avoid the fact that they are here in violation of the rules we set up. The choice is a hard one, but it is very simple. Change the rules, or ship them out when we find them. Any other choice is either avoiding the real issue or setting up a 2nd class of citizenship, and the problem with a 2nd class of citizenship is that then you will have institutionalized discrimination. Since they’re not really citizens, they don’t have the same rights citizens do, because if they did, then they would be full citizens.
So it comes down to what kind of country you want. Letting in anyone who wants to come here would destroy the country, so you have to turn some away, and when you turn them away, TURN THEM AWAY. Don’t say “Well since you eluded our border patrol and have lived here for X number of months/years we won’t deport you, but you don’t get to enjoy the rights we do.” You’re being needlessly cruel to them and basically setting up a servant class, something I thought we were supposed to fight against. If we can accomodate them, then they should be citizens. If we can’t accomodate them, then they have to leave. As long as we have one set of rules for full citizens and one set for “undocumented immigrants” this problem hasn’t got a prayer of being solved.
And don’t give me any of that “Well they do the jobs citizens don’t want.” crap. If that’s true, why the hell don’t our citizens want those jobs? THAT’S your real problem. Why would a job an immigrant can survive on be turned down by an American who wants to make a living? We’re either so arrogant we can’t be bothered to take something that’s “beneath us”, or the conditions of the job make it borderline inhumane, or being a full citizen makes the job impossible to take and still make a living. Whatever the reason, it needs to change. Illegals aren’t stealing our jobs. We’re giving them away. If the produce industry is able to keep prices low because they don’t have to pay their workers minimum wage, and the workers can survive on that salary, then why is it illegal to pay a US citizen the same salary for the same job? I’m all for minimum wage, but when a job wouldn’t even exist if the employer has to pay minimum wage, I think some exceptions are in order.
May 23rd, 2007 at 7:41 am“…more inhospitable…”
Well, they’ve certainly made it more inhospitable for me to live here and I’m a citizen. Higher gas, lower wages, higher cost of living, higher everything.
If I could I would go somewhere else.
Thanks Chimpy!
May 23rd, 2007 at 9:19 amI wonder what color is the sky in these neocons’ world.
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:49 amCompromise, Thinkprogress, isn’t defined as the preferences of only one group coming into effect. You’re going to have allow some thorough toughness against these lawbreakers in order for the system to remain intact, like it or not. You claim it represents “a critical first step.” So, you mean that the last step won’t be completed until this bill has nothing but Democratic wording?
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:28 pmComment to #37. Immigrants lining up for handouts? Maybe they are getting payback for crimes against the people committed by the U.K. in their lands.
Western nations have raped and continue to strip these countries of their resources. Now the immigrants are coming for something back. In one form or another. Invasions by Western nations have forced their form of economy on them where it didn’t exist before. Now they are trying to survive in that system.
Western nations created this problem thanks to their imperialism, colonialism and occupation. Now they have to deal with it.
You have to give to get.
May 23rd, 2007 at 3:55 pm#74
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Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of an “illegalâ€. Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.
Just because the Indians sold something they didn’t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesn’t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminals–Georgia began as a prison colony).
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants. (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldn’t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those “free will†notions.)
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A little rampant hypocrisy here? If the indians didn’t own the land, then they could not have declared my ancestors “illegal”. If they DID own the land, then they sold it to my ancestors thereby legitimizing their presence on this continent. It is highly unlikely, in any case, that they even had an “illegal alien” concept back then. So, who DID have the “illegal alien” concept that you applied to events over 300 years ago? Why, no one. You and most pro-illegals apply the concept retroactively when you whine about illegals rights (they have rights in their homelands – they can go home and excercise those rights.)
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:33 pmThe concept of “illegal alien” arose when laws were passed specifying how people could enter this country and become citizens. Those who chose to bypass those laws became illegal aliens. As much as you may not like it and I may not like it, and to paraphrase H. Rap Brown, all legal power stems from the barrel of a gun and, being a country, when we pass these laws, we have all the guns.
YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT CHAD!
May 25th, 2007 at 10:04 amHere is a similar view
Oh by the way if anyone cares to hear the part that was so nicely edited out from this clip seek and ye shall find. it continues……
That’s what’s happening already, because the states and localities who are frustrated with the federal government’s failure to address the problem. And I disagree: We haven’t tried enforcement yet. We haven’t tried it for many years.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:32 pmThey’re starting to enact laws on their own in ways that they can use their own authority to make a difference in the problem. And it’s starting to work, from what we’ve heard.
This proposal is neither practical, nor realistic, nor even tough. It doesn’t make us any more secure, because all we’re going to know about the people who gain status is what they tell us. We’re not going to have any opportunity to actually screen people, to see if they even qualify. It’s completely unrealistic to think that the agency that’s going to have to process all of these applications is going to be able to do it.
I mean, last year was a banner year, in terms of production for USCIS, the immigration agency that processes applications. And they were able to do 7 million applications last year. We’re talking about having — they’re going to have to process, not only 12 million illegal aliens who get instant amnesty, but also the at least 400,000-some additional green cards, and probably 400,000 or 500,000 additional guest workers each year.
We can’t catch all rapists, so why not grant amnesty to rapists? Surely no one wants thousands of rapists living in the shadows! How about discrimination laws? Insider trading laws? Do you expect Bush to round up everyone who goes over the speed limit? Of course we can’t do that. We can’t even catch all murderers. What we need is “comprehensive murder reform.” It’s not “amnesty” — we’ll ask them to pay a small fine.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:35 pmI’m tired of hearing illegal aliens painting in such an innocent light. They are screwing up people’s lives in the US. They steal our identities, steal anything not nailed down. Destroy communities, send money back home to mexico instead of investing locally, then you have their ms13 gangs, their language being forced upon us, and we’re paying to educate their kids only most of them waste this opportunity and become gangsters. So remind me again why we need to take care of these illegal aliens???? I’m not left wing or right wing. I’m just tired of people defending these criminals!
June 13th, 2007 at 2:30 am