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	<title>Comments on: Right-Wing Solution To Undocumented Immigration: &#8216;Make America A More Inhospitable Place&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/</link>
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		<title>By: wrex</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3854814</link>
		<dc:creator>wrex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3854814</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m tired of hearing illegal aliens painting in such an innocent light. They are screwing up people&#039;s lives in the US. They steal our identities, steal anything not nailed down. Destroy communities, send money back home to mexico instead of investing locally, then you have their ms13 gangs, their language being forced upon us, and we&#039;re paying to educate their kids only most of them waste this opportunity and become gangsters. So remind me again why we need to take care of these illegal aliens???? I&#039;m not left wing or right wing. I&#039;m just tired of people defending these criminals!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m tired of hearing illegal aliens painting in such an innocent light. They are screwing up people&#8217;s lives in the US. They steal our identities, steal anything not nailed down. Destroy communities, send money back home to mexico instead of investing locally, then you have their ms13 gangs, their language being forced upon us, and we&#8217;re paying to educate their kids only most of them waste this opportunity and become gangsters. So remind me again why we need to take care of these illegal aliens???? I&#8217;m not left wing or right wing. I&#8217;m just tired of people defending these criminals!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3854814', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Fred Rogers</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3830827</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 02:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3830827</guid>
		<description>We can&#039;t catch all rapists, so why not grant amnesty to rapists? Surely no one wants thousands of rapists living in the shadows! How about discrimination laws? Insider trading laws? Do you expect Bush to round up everyone who goes over the speed limit? Of course we can&#039;t do that. We can&#039;t even catch all murderers. What we need is &quot;comprehensive murder reform.&quot; It&#039;s not &quot;amnesty&quot; -- we&#039;ll ask them to pay a small fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can&#8217;t catch all rapists, so why not grant amnesty to rapists? Surely no one wants thousands of rapists living in the shadows! How about discrimination laws? Insider trading laws? Do you expect Bush to round up everyone who goes over the speed limit? Of course we can&#8217;t do that. We can&#8217;t even catch all murderers. What we need is &#8220;comprehensive murder reform.&#8221; It&#8217;s not &#8220;amnesty&#8221; &#8212; we&#8217;ll ask them to pay a small fine.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3830827', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Fred Rogers</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3830823</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 02:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3830823</guid>
		<description>Oh by the way if anyone cares to hear the part that was so nicely edited out from this clip seek and ye shall find. it continues......

That&#039;s what&#039;s happening already, because the states and localities who are frustrated with the federal government&#039;s failure to address the problem. And I disagree: We haven&#039;t tried enforcement yet. We haven&#039;t tried it for many years.
They&#039;re starting to enact laws on their own in ways that they can use their own authority to make a difference in the problem. And it&#039;s starting to work, from what we&#039;ve heard.
This proposal is neither practical, nor realistic, nor even tough. It doesn&#039;t make us any more secure, because all we&#039;re going to know about the people who gain status is what they tell us. We&#039;re not going to have any opportunity to actually screen people, to see if they even qualify. It&#039;s completely unrealistic to think that the agency that&#039;s going to have to process all of these applications is going to be able to do it.
I mean, last year was a banner year, in terms of production for USCIS, the immigration agency that processes applications. And they were able to do 7 million applications last year. We&#039;re talking about having -- they&#039;re going to have to process, not only 12 million illegal aliens who get instant amnesty, but also the at least 400,000-some additional green cards, and probably 400,000 or 500,000 additional guest workers each year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh by the way if anyone cares to hear the part that was so nicely edited out from this clip seek and ye shall find. it continues&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what&#8217;s happening already, because the states and localities who are frustrated with the federal government&#8217;s failure to address the problem. And I disagree: We haven&#8217;t tried enforcement yet. We haven&#8217;t tried it for many years.<br />
They&#8217;re starting to enact laws on their own in ways that they can use their own authority to make a difference in the problem. And it&#8217;s starting to work, from what we&#8217;ve heard.<br />
This proposal is neither practical, nor realistic, nor even tough. It doesn&#8217;t make us any more secure, because all we&#8217;re going to know about the people who gain status is what they tell us. We&#8217;re not going to have any opportunity to actually screen people, to see if they even qualify. It&#8217;s completely unrealistic to think that the agency that&#8217;s going to have to process all of these applications is going to be able to do it.<br />
I mean, last year was a banner year, in terms of production for USCIS, the immigration agency that processes applications. And they were able to do 7 million applications last year. We&#8217;re talking about having &#8212; they&#8217;re going to have to process, not only 12 million illegal aliens who get instant amnesty, but also the at least 400,000-some additional green cards, and probably 400,000 or 500,000 additional guest workers each year.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3830823', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: apondonet</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3821934</link>
		<dc:creator>apondonet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 14:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3821934</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Western nations have raped and continue to strip these countries of their resources. Now the immigrants are coming for something back. In one form or another. Invasions by Western nations have forced their form of economy on them where it didnâ€™t exist before. Now they are trying to survive in that system.

Western nations created this problem thanks to their imperialism, colonialism and occupation. Now they have to deal with it. 

You have to give to get.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT CHAD! &lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.afroarticles.com/article-dashboard/Article/CNN-s-Lou-Dobbs---The-Minister-of--Propaganda-and-Enlightenment-/23562&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here is a similar view&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Western nations have raped and continue to strip these countries of their resources. Now the immigrants are coming for something back. In one form or another. Invasions by Western nations have forced their form of economy on them where it didnâ€™t exist before. Now they are trying to survive in that system.</p>
<p>Western nations created this problem thanks to their imperialism, colonialism and occupation. Now they have to deal with it. </p>
<p>You have to give to get.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT CHAD! </strong><br />
<strong><a HREF="http://www.afroarticles.com/article-dashboard/Article/CNN-s-Lou-Dobbs---The-Minister-of--Propaganda-and-Enlightenment-/23562" rel="nofollow">Here is a similar view</a></strong><a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3821934', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Oldfart</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3818708</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldfart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 20:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3818708</guid>
		<description>#74
-----------------------
Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of an â€œillegalâ€. Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.
Just because the Indians sold something they didnâ€™t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesnâ€™t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminalsâ€“Georgia began as a prison colony).
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants. (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldnâ€™t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those â€œfree willâ€ notions.)
--------------------------------

A little rampant hypocrisy here? If the indians didn&#039;t own the land, then they could not have declared my ancestors &quot;illegal&quot;. If they DID own the land, then they sold it to my ancestors thereby legitimizing their presence on this continent. It is highly unlikely, in any case, that they even had an &quot;illegal alien&quot; concept back then. So, who DID have the &quot;illegal alien&quot; concept that you applied to events over 300 years ago? Why, no one. You and most pro-illegals apply the concept retroactively when you whine about illegals rights (they have rights in their homelands - they can go home and excercise those rights.)
The concept of &quot;illegal alien&quot; arose when laws were passed specifying how people could enter this country and become citizens. Those who chose to bypass those laws became illegal aliens.  As much as you may not like it and I may not like it, and to paraphrase H. Rap Brown, all legal power stems from the barrel of a gun and, being a country, when we pass these laws, we have all the guns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#74<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of an â€œillegalâ€. Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.<br />
Just because the Indians sold something they didnâ€™t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesnâ€™t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminalsâ€“Georgia began as a prison colony).<br />
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants. (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldnâ€™t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those â€œfree willâ€ notions.)<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>A little rampant hypocrisy here? If the indians didn&#8217;t own the land, then they could not have declared my ancestors &#8220;illegal&#8221;. If they DID own the land, then they sold it to my ancestors thereby legitimizing their presence on this continent. It is highly unlikely, in any case, that they even had an &#8220;illegal alien&#8221; concept back then. So, who DID have the &#8220;illegal alien&#8221; concept that you applied to events over 300 years ago? Why, no one. You and most pro-illegals apply the concept retroactively when you whine about illegals rights (they have rights in their homelands &#8211; they can go home and excercise those rights.)<br />
The concept of &#8220;illegal alien&#8221; arose when laws were passed specifying how people could enter this country and become citizens. Those who chose to bypass those laws became illegal aliens.  As much as you may not like it and I may not like it, and to paraphrase H. Rap Brown, all legal power stems from the barrel of a gun and, being a country, when we pass these laws, we have all the guns.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3818708', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3818605</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 19:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3818605</guid>
		<description>Comment to #37.  Immigrants lining up for handouts?  Maybe they are getting payback for crimes against the people committed by the U.K. in their lands.

Western nations have raped and continue to strip these countries of their resources.  Now the immigrants are coming for something back.  In one form or another.  Invasions by Western nations have forced their form of economy on them where it didn&#039;t exist before.  Now they are trying to survive in that system.

Western nations created this problem thanks to their imperialism, colonialism and occupation.  Now they have to deal with it.

You have to give to get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment to #37.  Immigrants lining up for handouts?  Maybe they are getting payback for crimes against the people committed by the U.K. in their lands.</p>
<p>Western nations have raped and continue to strip these countries of their resources.  Now the immigrants are coming for something back.  In one form or another.  Invasions by Western nations have forced their form of economy on them where it didn&#8217;t exist before.  Now they are trying to survive in that system.</p>
<p>Western nations created this problem thanks to their imperialism, colonialism and occupation.  Now they have to deal with it.</p>
<p>You have to give to get.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3818605', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: CompTROLLER V-1</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817970</link>
		<dc:creator>CompTROLLER V-1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 16:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817970</guid>
		<description>Compromise, Thinkprogress, isn&#039;t defined as the preferences of only one group coming into effect. You&#039;re going to have allow some thorough toughness against these lawbreakers in order for the system to remain intact, like it or not. You claim it represents &quot;a critical first step.&quot; So, you mean that the last step won&#039;t be completed until this bill has nothing but Democratic wording?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compromise, Thinkprogress, isn&#8217;t defined as the preferences of only one group coming into effect. You&#8217;re going to have allow some thorough toughness against these lawbreakers in order for the system to remain intact, like it or not. You claim it represents &#8220;a critical first step.&#8221; So, you mean that the last step won&#8217;t be completed until this bill has nothing but Democratic wording?<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817970', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Karim</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817849</link>
		<dc:creator>Karim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 15:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817849</guid>
		<description>I wonder what color is the sky in these neocons&#039; world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what color is the sky in these neocons&#8217; world.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817849', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Proud Dem</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817492</link>
		<dc:creator>Proud Dem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 13:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817492</guid>
		<description>&quot;...more inhospitable...&quot;

Well, they&#039;ve certainly made it more inhospitable for me to live here and I&#039;m a citizen.  Higher gas, lower wages, higher cost of living, higher everything.

If I could I would go somewhere else.

Thanks Chimpy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;more inhospitable&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, they&#8217;ve certainly made it more inhospitable for me to live here and I&#8217;m a citizen.  Higher gas, lower wages, higher cost of living, higher everything.</p>
<p>If I could I would go somewhere else.</p>
<p>Thanks Chimpy!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817492', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: swordsbane</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817424</link>
		<dc:creator>swordsbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 11:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817424</guid>
		<description>The problem is that no matter where you draw the line, there will always be a dividing line between citizen of the US and illegal.  Unless you want to simply give them citizenship, you cannot avoid the fact that they are here in violation of the rules we set up.  The choice is a hard one, but it is very simple.  Change the rules, or ship them out when we find them.  Any other choice is either avoiding the real issue or setting up a 2nd class of citizenship, and the problem with a 2nd class of citizenship is that then you will have institutionalized discrimination.  Since they&#039;re not really citizens, they don&#039;t have the same rights citizens do, because if they did, then they would be full citizens.

So it comes down to what kind of country you want.  Letting in anyone who wants to come here would destroy the country, so you have to turn some away, and when you turn them away, TURN THEM AWAY.  Don&#039;t say &quot;Well since you eluded our border patrol and have lived here for X number of months/years we won&#039;t deport you, but you don&#039;t get to enjoy the rights we do.&quot;  You&#039;re being needlessly cruel to them and basically setting up a servant class, something I thought we were supposed to fight against.  If we can accomodate them, then they should be citizens.  If we can&#039;t accomodate them, then they have to leave.  As long as we have one set of rules for full citizens and one set for &quot;undocumented immigrants&quot; this problem hasn&#039;t got a prayer of being solved.

  And don&#039;t give me any of that &quot;Well they do the jobs citizens don&#039;t want.&quot; crap.  If that&#039;s true, why the hell don&#039;t our citizens want those jobs?  THAT&#039;S your real problem.  Why would a job an immigrant can survive on be turned down by an American who wants to make a living?  We&#039;re either so arrogant we can&#039;t be bothered to take something that&#039;s &quot;beneath us&quot;, or the conditions of the job make it borderline inhumane, or being a full citizen makes the job impossible to take and still make a living.  Whatever the reason, it needs to change.  Illegals aren&#039;t stealing our jobs.  We&#039;re giving them away.  If the produce industry is able to keep prices low because they don&#039;t have to pay their workers minimum wage, and the workers can survive on that salary, then why is it illegal to pay a US citizen the same salary for the same job?  I&#039;m all for minimum wage, but when a job wouldn&#039;t even exist if the employer has to pay minimum wage, I think some exceptions are in order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that no matter where you draw the line, there will always be a dividing line between citizen of the US and illegal.  Unless you want to simply give them citizenship, you cannot avoid the fact that they are here in violation of the rules we set up.  The choice is a hard one, but it is very simple.  Change the rules, or ship them out when we find them.  Any other choice is either avoiding the real issue or setting up a 2nd class of citizenship, and the problem with a 2nd class of citizenship is that then you will have institutionalized discrimination.  Since they&#8217;re not really citizens, they don&#8217;t have the same rights citizens do, because if they did, then they would be full citizens.</p>
<p>So it comes down to what kind of country you want.  Letting in anyone who wants to come here would destroy the country, so you have to turn some away, and when you turn them away, TURN THEM AWAY.  Don&#8217;t say &#8220;Well since you eluded our border patrol and have lived here for X number of months/years we won&#8217;t deport you, but you don&#8217;t get to enjoy the rights we do.&#8221;  You&#8217;re being needlessly cruel to them and basically setting up a servant class, something I thought we were supposed to fight against.  If we can accomodate them, then they should be citizens.  If we can&#8217;t accomodate them, then they have to leave.  As long as we have one set of rules for full citizens and one set for &#8220;undocumented immigrants&#8221; this problem hasn&#8217;t got a prayer of being solved.</p>
<p>  And don&#8217;t give me any of that &#8220;Well they do the jobs citizens don&#8217;t want.&#8221; crap.  If that&#8217;s true, why the hell don&#8217;t our citizens want those jobs?  THAT&#8217;S your real problem.  Why would a job an immigrant can survive on be turned down by an American who wants to make a living?  We&#8217;re either so arrogant we can&#8217;t be bothered to take something that&#8217;s &#8220;beneath us&#8221;, or the conditions of the job make it borderline inhumane, or being a full citizen makes the job impossible to take and still make a living.  Whatever the reason, it needs to change.  Illegals aren&#8217;t stealing our jobs.  We&#8217;re giving them away.  If the produce industry is able to keep prices low because they don&#8217;t have to pay their workers minimum wage, and the workers can survive on that salary, then why is it illegal to pay a US citizen the same salary for the same job?  I&#8217;m all for minimum wage, but when a job wouldn&#8217;t even exist if the employer has to pay minimum wage, I think some exceptions are in order.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817424', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: langx</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817383</link>
		<dc:creator>langx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 06:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817383</guid>
		<description>I love how Bush riddicules the Iranians and Syrians about their borders when we can&#039;t protect our own. 

GOP - The Hypocritical party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how Bush riddicules the Iranians and Syrians about their borders when we can&#8217;t protect our own. </p>
<p>GOP &#8211; The Hypocritical party.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817383', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: langx</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817382</link>
		<dc:creator>langx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 06:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817382</guid>
		<description>I cant expect idiots to get it but

Kick out the &quot;illegals&quot; and watch you&#039;re basic products go thru the roof while  more jobs are  exported to foreign countries. 

 
Who do you think the companies that are fined are going to have pay that fine for hiring an illegal. 

The consumer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant expect idiots to get it but</p>
<p>Kick out the &#8220;illegals&#8221; and watch you&#8217;re basic products go thru the roof while  more jobs are  exported to foreign countries. </p>
<p>Who do you think the companies that are fined are going to have pay that fine for hiring an illegal. </p>
<p>The consumer.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817382', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: JPark</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817314</link>
		<dc:creator>JPark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 05:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817314</guid>
		<description>Congratulations Saywho.  Now tell us why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations Saywho.  Now tell us why.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817314', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Saywho</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817262</link>
		<dc:creator>Saywho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 04:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817262</guid>
		<description>I agree with her. NO AMNESTY!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with her. NO AMNESTY!<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817262', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: JosephW</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817210</link>
		<dc:creator>JosephW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 04:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817210</guid>
		<description>Post by oldfart:
&quot;And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.&quot;

Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of  an &quot;illegal&quot;.  Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.
Just because the Indians sold something they didn&#039;t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesn&#039;t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminals--Georgia began as a prison colony).
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants.  (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldn&#039;t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those &quot;free will&quot; notions.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Post by oldfart:<br />
&#8220;And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, pal, any American of European ancestry IS the descendant of  an &#8220;illegal&#8221;.  Your ancestors were NOT invited to come; they came over without permission from the Natives.<br />
Just because the Indians sold something they didn&#8217;t own to a bunch of moronic Europeans doesn&#8217;t negate the fact that the Europeans came over illegally (or were sent here as criminals&#8211;Georgia began as a prison colony).<br />
Parse it all you want, but the simple fact remains that Americans of European ancestry were little better than illegal immigrants.  (Americans of African ancestry were largely brought against their will so the concept of immigration wouldn&#8217;t apply; the idea to immigrate is one of those &#8220;free will&#8221; notions.)<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817210', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: m12</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817193</link>
		<dc:creator>m12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 04:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817193</guid>
		<description>This is Bush&#039;s biggest failure.

We need an electrified fence, along with armed guards shooting at crossers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is Bush&#8217;s biggest failure.</p>
<p>We need an electrified fence, along with armed guards shooting at crossers.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817193', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: JosephW</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3817179</link>
		<dc:creator>JosephW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 03:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3817179</guid>
		<description>Well, just as long as the right-wingers include all the ILLEGAL CUBANS who get automatic &quot;asylum&quot; when they enter this country.
Of course, that&#039;ll never happen.  Right-wingers can&#039;t piss off the only Hispanics who consistently vote for them.
I also support the notion that all businesses (including the multi-millionaires--and above) who hire illegals be slapped with fines (a minimum of $11,532*) for every illegal hired for every year that even one illegal was hired.  (This means that if a business had hired 1000 illegals over the last ten years, it would be subject to a minimum fine of $11,532,000.)  Just to make things even more fun:  These fines would NOT be factored into dividends paid to shareholders nor could a business pass on the cost of these fines to its customers nor would a business be permitted to &quot;trim&quot; other costs (such as layoffs) unless those other costs came from executive bonuses.


*That figure comes from a $5.15/hr minimum wage times 40 hours times 52 weeks ($10,712) plus the FICA and Medicare taxes ($820) on that figure.  I suggest this as a minimum since most businesses don&#039;t generally hire illegals at the minimum wage nor is the pay to illegals subject to Social Security or Medicare taxes.  I&#039;d also think it would be reasonable to include the amounts that would be paid out in Federal, State and Local taxes as well, but that would vary from place to place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, just as long as the right-wingers include all the ILLEGAL CUBANS who get automatic &#8220;asylum&#8221; when they enter this country.<br />
Of course, that&#8217;ll never happen.  Right-wingers can&#8217;t piss off the only Hispanics who consistently vote for them.<br />
I also support the notion that all businesses (including the multi-millionaires&#8211;and above) who hire illegals be slapped with fines (a minimum of $11,532*) for every illegal hired for every year that even one illegal was hired.  (This means that if a business had hired 1000 illegals over the last ten years, it would be subject to a minimum fine of $11,532,000.)  Just to make things even more fun:  These fines would NOT be factored into dividends paid to shareholders nor could a business pass on the cost of these fines to its customers nor would a business be permitted to &#8220;trim&#8221; other costs (such as layoffs) unless those other costs came from executive bonuses.</p>
<p>*That figure comes from a $5.15/hr minimum wage times 40 hours times 52 weeks ($10,712) plus the FICA and Medicare taxes ($820) on that figure.  I suggest this as a minimum since most businesses don&#8217;t generally hire illegals at the minimum wage nor is the pay to illegals subject to Social Security or Medicare taxes.  I&#8217;d also think it would be reasonable to include the amounts that would be paid out in Federal, State and Local taxes as well, but that would vary from place to place.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3817179', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3816945</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 01:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3816945</guid>
		<description>So let&#039;s see, Republicans hire them, but then they want to make the conditions ever worse.  Too late for that.  Perhaps if they weren&#039;t giving them work, they&#039;d stop coming.  This problem is mainly a problem in the Red States who funnily enough, vote Republican.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So let&#8217;s see, Republicans hire them, but then they want to make the conditions ever worse.  Too late for that.  Perhaps if they weren&#8217;t giving them work, they&#8217;d stop coming.  This problem is mainly a problem in the Red States who funnily enough, vote Republican.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3816945', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Noatak</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3816913</link>
		<dc:creator>Noatak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 01:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3816913</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not happy about so many illegals in out country,  But I&#039;m absolutely  furious with out government for creating this problem and their cowardice in addressing it now.  Even in the new proposals its clear that  they will not enforce the laws.  They still cannot even handle student visas 6 years after 9/11.   Anybody that thinks  the US Government  competent enough to administer  this proposed bureaucratic boondoggle is a naive fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not happy about so many illegals in out country,  But I&#8217;m absolutely  furious with out government for creating this problem and their cowardice in addressing it now.  Even in the new proposals its clear that  they will not enforce the laws.  They still cannot even handle student visas 6 years after 9/11.   Anybody that thinks  the US Government  competent enough to administer  this proposed bureaucratic boondoggle is a naive fool.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3816913', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Oldfart</title>
		<link>http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/comment-page-2/#comment-3816858</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldfart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 00:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/22/immigration-vaughan/#comment-3816858</guid>
		<description>The solution is simple. Make it illegal for a business to knowingly or &lt;strong&gt;otherwise&lt;/strong&gt; hire, rent or sell to an illegal immigrant. Establish strong fines and &lt;strong&gt;enforce&lt;/strong&gt;it. Illegals who no longer wish to live here without jobs or homes will be allowed to freely pass back from whence they came. If they have American children, they will have to make Sophie&#039;s choice, won&#039;t they? Once most of the illegals are back in their homelands, &lt;strong&gt;then, and only then&lt;/strong&gt; can we think about a policy of letting some or all of them back in as &lt;strong&gt;legal&lt;/strong&gt; immigrants.

And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.

Get the &lt;strong&gt;illegals&lt;/strong&gt; OUT now. The left needs to understand that people are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not immigrants. The left tries to paint every one who disagrees with them with the same brush strokes. That is a tactic I&#039;m more used to coming from the right and it is very disturbing. It implies that the left is as full of &lt;strong&gt;&quot;true believers&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; as the right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The solution is simple. Make it illegal for a business to knowingly or <strong>otherwise</strong> hire, rent or sell to an illegal immigrant. Establish strong fines and <strong>enforce</strong>it. Illegals who no longer wish to live here without jobs or homes will be allowed to freely pass back from whence they came. If they have American children, they will have to make Sophie&#8217;s choice, won&#8217;t they? Once most of the illegals are back in their homelands, <strong>then, and only then</strong> can we think about a policy of letting some or all of them back in as <strong>legal</strong> immigrants.</p>
<p>And, btw, my ancestors were the Dutch that bought Manhattan from the local Indians. So, I AM HERE LEGALLY for all you blowhards and crybabies who whine about there being no immigration limits in the past so that we are ALL illegal.</p>
<p>Get the <strong>illegals</strong> OUT now. The left needs to understand that people are against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION not immigrants. The left tries to paint every one who disagrees with them with the same brush strokes. That is a tactic I&#8217;m more used to coming from the right and it is very disturbing. It implies that the left is as full of <strong>&#8220;true believers&#8221;</strong> as the right.<a href="javascript:void(0)" title=""  onmouseover="window.status=''; return true" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true" onclick="ddrc_popup('http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/plugins/dd-report-comments/report.php?c=3816858', 400, 400)"></a></p>
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