Pelosi: ‘This is not the end of the debate.’
Pelosi: ‘This is not the end of the debate.’
Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) gave the following remarks on the House floor today:
This is not the end of the debate. … We will have legislation to repeal the President’s authority for the war in Iraq. We will have that vote. We will have votes on Mr. Murtha’s defense appropriations bill, one of them the regular order defense appropriations bill, another one the supplemental that has been requested by the Bush Administration.
We could have taken a giant step in a new direction, instead we’re taking a baby step. But as I said, this is not the end of the debate.
As we think about all of this, I’d like to recall the words of a philosopher, Hannah Arendt, who once observed that nations are driven to an endless flywheel of violence because they believe that one last, one final gesture of violence will bring peace. But each time they sow the seeds for more violence.
UPDATE: The Gavel has video.
Read her full statement:
Pelosi on Iraq Supplemental: ‘This Is Not the End of the Debate’
Washington, D.C. — Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke on the House floor this evening in opposition to legislation that provides funding for the war in Iraq:
“I thank the gentleman, the distinguished Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, Mr. Obey, for his brilliance in bringing the legislation to the floor that we have today. With this bill, we can express ourselves on the direction of this war, and at the same time, have the opportunity to meet the emergency needs of the people of America — the Hurricane Katrina survivors, our farmers suffering from natural disasters, children without health insurance, our veterans. We are raising the minimum wage for millions of our hardest working Americans.
“And with the passage of the provisions in the first piece of this bill, we strengthen our country and address the health and well-being of millions of Americans who have been ignored for too long. With the new direction, Congress is keeping its promise to them.
“Mr. Speaker, we have two amendments before us and I just spoke about one of them. The other amendment is about the war; the President’s request for war funding plus the Warner resolution is really an inkblot.
“We are all familiar with the Rorschach test. You look at it and you see what you see. Some will see one thing, some will see others. Some will see an opportunity for the first time for the Republicans to say accountability is needed on the part of the President of the United States, on the part of the government of Iraq. And so there are these benchmarks.
“But these benchmarks in no means meet the obligations that we have to our men and women in uniform, if they can be easily waived, as they can be in this resolution.
“I’m really glad that the Republicans finally admit that there’s a need for accountability. But what they haven’t done is met that need with something appropriate.
“This is like a fig leaf. This is a token. This is a small step forward.
“Instead we should have a giant step forward into a new direction. So when I look at this inkblot, I see something that does not have adequate guidelines and timetables. Something that does not have adequate consequences and something that does not have my support.
“Democrats are proposing something much better. Instead of a missed opportunity, we had hoped that the President would have accepted our proposals, which we sent to him over and over again. Over and over again, meeting his request and even doing more for our troops, for our veterans, and for strengthening our military, in ways beyond the President’s request.
“We now have our troops engaged in a civil war. There are reports that the Department of Defense has declared what has happened in Iraq to be a civil war. The American people do not think that it is necessary for us to be refereeing a civil war in Iraq. They want our focus to be on fighting terrorism, retraining the Iraqis, protecting our diplomats and our forces there, and that’s exactly what Democrats have proposed.
“We think that there should be a new direction. We think that what we should be talking about here today is a different vision for stability in the Middle East and how our role in Iraq contributes to that.
“Many retired generals, including General William Odom, have stated that any strategy for success in Iraq must begin with the redeployment of our troops out of Iraq. That’s a general, a retired general, and his voice is echoed by other generals as well. That is what we are proposing — a change of mission, a redeployment for a different purpose.
“Our troops have performed their duties excellently. Every opportunity we have, we must honor them for their patriotism, their courage, the sacrifices they and their families are willing to make. Time and again we do this, and as we go into Memorial Day weekend, we do it again. And we convey our condolences to those who have lost a family member in Iraq, in Afghanistan, or any of the other wars we have been engaged in.
“This isn’t about whether or not we support our troops. Of course we support our troops. We all demonstrated over and over again; but it is about opposing this war.
“This is not the end of the debate. We have to be here to bring this bill to the House floor so we can go forward. But this debate will go on. There will be legislation on the floor in the next several months to change the mission, from combat to fighting terrorism, training and diplomatic and force protection. Again, that would require a greatly reduced U.S. forces and coalition forces in Iraq.
“We will have legislation to repeal the President’s authority for the war in Iraq. We will have that vote. We will have votes on Mr. Murtha’s defense appropriations bill, one of them the regular order defense appropriations bill, another one the supplemental that has been requested by the Bush Administration.
“Mr. Speaker, I come to the floor today sad that the opportunity that we had has been missed. There is a recognition that we need accountability because the American people are demanding it. At least 70 percent of the American people say we have to have accountability. Instead of putting accountability into bill, we make a gesture at it.
“We could have taken a giant step in a new direction, instead we’re taking a baby step. But as I said, this is not the end of the debate.
“As we think about all of this, I’d like to recall the words of a philosopher, Hannah Arendt, who once observed that nations are driven to an endless flywheel of violence because they believe that one last, one final gesture of violence will bring peace. But each time they sow the seeds for more violence.
“That is what President Bush is doing in Iraq. This has been the deeply flawed policy of President Bush. Democrats are proposing a new direction. I urge my colleagues as we go forth, however you see the inkblot, however you decide your vote, to join in listening to the American people in the coming days, weeks, and months and bring this war to an end.”
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sorry, nancy, i believe you mean well, but i ain’t in the mood for any goddam philosophizin’… no one, but no one, is telling it like it is, namely, that the united states of american has its head firmly up its own ass, likes it there, and isn’t motivated to pull it out… if i was a drinkin’ man, i’d be flat on my face by now… as it is, i’m just going to let my stomach grind itself into bloody bits…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
May 24th, 2007 at 9:08 pmHow many more Americans will you send into the meat grinder while you take baby steps, Ms. Speaker?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:11 pmsorry Madame Speaker, I don’t believe you mean well. You have failed us miserably. I hope your constituents realize the shame.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:12 pmshe will give the same speech after they pass new funding in september.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:12 pmFU Nancy. The honeymoon is WAY over.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:13 pmTraitor
Nancy, please answer this simple question…
At what point does taxation without representation define an occupation of this country by a foreign or domestic threat?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:13 pmI agree with what she said. She thinks the bill is a cop-out, and voted against it. She thinks it isn’t what the American people want – because it isn’t.
She says that this isn’t the end of it. I hope she is right, but I am doubtful.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:13 pm“We will have legislation to repeal the President’s authority for the war in Iraq. We will have that vote.”
And now we all know how that will go…
We do have a few in Congress who feel our pain – unfortunately they are such a small minority that they are impotent.
Appalling.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:16 pmThis is a joke. The Dems are a joke. At least the Repubs have the chutzpah to carry through with their perceived “mandates” from the voters.
Can anyone now honestly say that we are not one nation under corporations with the people taking it in the ass?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:19 pmMadame Speaker — if we are to believe your disdain for this bill — you seem to be conceding you have lost control of your caucus on the single issue which awarded our party its mandate to preside over the purse.
This certainly seems to be grounds for considering whether you should step aside as Speaker. The people who voted for you and your party — and many who did not — cannot support the open-ended expansion of this fallacious pre-emptive war. What confidence do you give us going forward?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:21 pmI would argue, none.
Al Gore/Russ Feingold as an Independent ticket in 2008!
May 24th, 2007 at 9:21 pmSorry. Doesn’t work for me. I read something earlier today about Dems wanting to get this Supplemental done, because otherwise, the President will criticize them for going home over Memorial Day recess, while the troops await funding. Hmmm…..would the Dems honestly trade the war issue for a little vacation, the CHIPS program, and a few other minor issues? Magic beans, as Keith Olberman would say.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:22 pmWith Presidential approval at 28% and 70% of the public against this Occupation, why would the Democrats do this? Something smells rotten in Denmark.
Yeah, folks, da ‘bate is not over. Pelosi and the Collapsable Dems are going to jerk us off with a lot of feel-good rhetoric some more.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:22 pmwho are you going to debate …. Mr Sun tan?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:25 pmOh look another politician wagging her lips.. think any truth will be coming out of her mouth… think again. The only truth here is that the death toll in Iraqnam will continue to rise.. now with Democratic backed funding.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:26 pmI really do not understand, have they outlawed filibustering?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:27 pmThanks but no thanks, Nancy. The eqivocation dodge was tired after the scAlito fiasco. I’m done…the Dems have no cred at all. You may come back and debate more (while our guys die) at a later date, but not with my money.
That’ll go straight to those Reps who kept the faith, and NEVER to the Dem party as a whole. Never again.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:27 pmLong live the Progressive party. The Dems are just Repubs with better manners.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:29 pmWith Presidential approval at 28% and 70% of the public against this Occupation, why would the Democrats do this? Something smells rotten in Denmark.
Comment by midwestblue — May 24, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
Because you need a 2/3 vote to override a veto.
Bush’s approval rating could be 1% and he’s still going to veto a bill with timelines or benchmarks. What does he care what people think of him – he’s not running in 2008. All he’s working for now is how he’ll be portrayed in history books, and he can’t even read, so why should he care about that either?
We’re not getting out of Iraq any time soon. It’s a physical impossibility, whatever Congress passes. Let’s look for workable solutions instead of abandoning the Democrats after one vote on last year’s budget. FY 2008 starts in four months.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:30 pmDonkey
more like a collapsible folding chair
May 24th, 2007 at 9:31 pmToday is a sad day for me. It is the day the democratic party died. I realized that they do not care what the people want and they do not care about our troops. It is all about them and trying to keep their jobs. I hope the American people wake up and vote all of these people (democrats and republicans who support this war) out.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:32 pmOh, that’s so sweet of you Ms. Pelosi. Shall we dine on cake and sip tea while other people’s children die? Oh, I’m sorry, I wouldn’t want to dirty your beautiful mind with such language.
And I suppose it’s too much of a bother to ask you to even think about maybe impeaching a President who openly admits to violating our Constitution and International Laws. After all, lying about fellatio is much more heinous than imprisoning a US Citizen for years without charges; kidnapping, imprisoning and torturing foreign nationals; spying on US Citizens without probable cause, nor a warrant; destroying two countries and killing 3/4 of a million people, isn’t it.
Ms. Pelosi, if the best the Democrats can do is to continue an immoral and illegal war, then we need a new party.
Personally, I prefer the platform of the Peace and Freedom Party.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:35 pmDemocrats want the to have the war, the bloodshed, the Republican corruption in front of the electorate’s eyes on election day. That is why they oppose it “in principle,” but don’t want it to end in practice.
There’s only one party in this government. It’s the party of money and power.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:36 pmSo? What if the President vetoes every bill? He can’t (legally) fund his war without the appropriations approved by Congress.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:38 pm#19, You’re wrong!
There would be no veto to override if there was no legislation passed to fund the war! Don’t buy this propaganda.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:38 pmImpeachment is back on the table … for Pelosi!
May 24th, 2007 at 9:39 pmSPINELESS!
Everyone of them who voted for this.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:40 pmDemocrats want the to have the war, the bloodshed, the Republican corruption in front of the electorate’s eyes on election day. That is why they oppose it “in principle,†but don’t want it to end in practice.
There’s only one party in this government. It’s the party of money and power.
Comment by HeckuvahJob Brownie
Hmmmm. I’m gonna have to think about that for a while. Your words struck a nerve with me and you may be right.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:40 pmOne More Time:
YOU WORTHLESS PIGS
May 23, 2007
Since the Democrats caved in to Bush, I’m having it very hard time not to express my rage. So, I won’t: Democrats, I piss on each and very one of you who refuse to end this lethal U.S. occupation in Iraq. You are costing our troops their lives and our nation its treasury. Why do I say that you Democrats deserved a piss in the face? After hearing that you guys are prepare to unilaterally surrender to Bush on the Iraq supplemental, despite a solid majority of the American people in favor of at least some kind of restraints on this pig at the White House who is running amok. Now sink this down into your yellow-bellied guts: we are not demoralized, we’re just totally pissed. The latest rumblings in Iraq is this stinky, smelly oil production sharing agreement that was the end game of this entire monstrosity Iraq war is generating increasing resistance while “we’re†forcing it down the throats in this puppet Iraq government “we†created. This is the only “benchmark†Bush has ever been interested in. So what’s the Democrats’ end in caving in? Big Oil? Keeping your asses on the Congressional seats? Looking “macho†through our military presence in Iraq? Kissing Israel’s ass? I don’t give a shit why you hand our troops in Iraq a death sentence. All I care about is this: GET OUR TROOPS OUR OF IRAQ, YOU WORTHLESS PIGS.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:40 pmGo to HELL Nancy! Your Psych BS doesn’t cover your transgressions and betrayal…
All of the DEMS credibility isn’t worth, shi*t!!!
I hope you can eat that when you are at home, while more soldiers die because of YOUR COWARDICE!!!
May 24th, 2007 at 9:41 pmTaxation without representation = 21th century slavery
The hijacking of the Republican Party by the NeoCons:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4156174553630131591
Caused us to be blinded and not see the true nature of what republicanism is.
It is so sad, because the Democrats have proven to be just liars promising to give us freedom and assisting in the enslavement :(
For those who do not know our history, I invite you to the following read:
Cause of Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_States#_ref-5
Thomas Jefferson defined a republic as:”a government by its citizens in mass, acting directly and personally, according to rules established by the majority; and that every other government is more or less republican, in proportion as it has in its composition more or less of this ingredient of the direct action of the citizens. Such a government is evidently restrained to very narrow limits of space and population. I doubt if it would be practicable beyond the extent of a New England township. The first shade from this pure element, which, like that of pure vital air, cannot sustain life of itself, would be where the powers of the government, being divided, should be exercised each by representatives chosen…for such short terms as should render secure the duty of expressing the will of their constituents. This I should consider as the nearest approach to a pure republic, which is practicable on a large scale of country or population … we may say with truth and meaning, that governments are more or less republican as they have more or less of the element of popular election and control in their composition; and believing, as I do, that the mass of the citizens is the safest depository of their own rights, and especially, that the evils flowing from the duperies of the people, are less injurious than those from the egoism of their agents, I am a friend to that composition of government which has in it the most of this ingredient.”[8] â€
The Founding Fathers discoursed endlessly on the meaning of “republicanism.” John Adams in 1787 defined it as “a government, in which all men, rich and poor, magistrates and subjects, officers and people, masters and servants, the first citizen and the last, are equally subject to the laws.”[9]
May 24th, 2007 at 9:42 pmon second thought….
Republicans wantthe war (Bloodthirsty and greed…)
Democrats needthe war (to win the next election..)
May 24th, 2007 at 9:44 pmWhy do I feel sick to my stomach and so depressed I can’t see?
I had an idea. Everybody send 2 cents to the DNC in response to their mailings and the local offices of your own congress people and senators with a short note: Here’s my 2 cents. If you want more, defund the war and hold the Bush crowd accountable for their crimes. Otherwise, this is my last contribution.
Money talks.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:44 pmOn the one hand we have the terminally corrupt Republicans. On the other hand we have the weak, spineless Democrats. What to do, what to do….
Sorry, Nancy, but you’re a cop-out and your story doesn’t wash.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:47 pmDemocrats intend to win the next election, not by being the “antiwar” party, but by being the less-pro-war party.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:48 pmKissing Israel’s ass?
Comment by Armando Gomez — May 24, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
______________
????????????
May 24th, 2007 at 9:48 pmDude, this bill will fund al-qaeda to attack israel. This bill is the greatest threat to israel’s existence in 30 years.
Some info regarding where the unchecked money goes:
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Hersh_Bush_arranged_support_for_militants_0522.html
no trolls – yet. They must be dancing in the streets.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:49 pm#19. toasterhead– I do prefer Democrats because Republicans are even worse. I just can’t help feeling an anger and a suspicion about these guys.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:49 pmMore of the same BS;remember folks we heard from them before when Alito came up for confirmation “We are saving our ammunition for the next fight”Well low & behold Roberts came up next and we heard nary a peep from these pathetic gas bags.So much damn corruption in the Dem party.Remember this name folks ,Steny Hoyer, the sooner this gas bag can be gone from leadership the better it would be for the ordinary folks.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:51 pmWhile everyone should be outraged, no one should be surprised. I think deep down we all saw this coming a mile away. And the ‘Have faith’, ‘Long Term Goals’, ‘One Vote’ groups are in a dream world. There is no way the Dems come out of this looking like anything less than cowards. If anything, I am surprised that they saved what little sack they have to try and spin the bill by saying that it is not a ‘blank check’. Please.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:51 pmIt feels a lot like November 8, 2004 right now…
May 24th, 2007 at 9:51 pmVirtue vs. Commerce
The open question, as Pocock suggested,[10] of the conflict between personal economic interest (grounded in Lockean liberalism) and classical republicanism, troubled Americans. Jefferson and Madison roundly denounced the Federalist for creating a national bank as tending to corruption and monarchism; Alexander Hamilton staunchly defended his program, arguing that national economic strength was necessary for the protection of liberty. Jefferson never relented but by 1815 Madison switched and announced in favor of a national bank, which he set up in 1816.
John Adams often pondered the issue of civic virtue. Writing Mercy Otis Warren in 1776, he agreed with the Greeks and the Romans, that, “Public Virtue cannot exist without private, and public Virtue is the only Foundation of Republics.” Adams insisted, “There must be a positive Passion for the public good, the public Interest, Honour, Power, and Glory, established in the Minds of the People, or there can be no Republican Government, nor any real Liberty. And this public Passion must be Superior to all private Passions. Men must be ready, they must pride themselves, and be happy to sacrifice their private Pleasures, Passions, and Interests, nay their private Friendships and dearest connections, when they Stand in Competition with the Rights of society.”[11]
Adams worried that a businessman might have financial interests that conflicted with republican duty; indeed, he was especially suspicious of banks. He decided that history taught that “the Spirit of Commerce . . . is incompatible with that purity of Heart, and Greatness of soul which is necessary for an happy Republic.” But so much of that spirit of commerce had infected America. In New England, Adams noted, “even the Farmers and Tradesmen are addicted to Commerce.” As a result, there was “a great Danger that a Republican Government would be very factious and turbulent there.”[12]
May 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_States#_ref-5
By the way, will China write the check for this bill directly to Israel?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pmI dont live there, but I love dissent. I send congrats to everyone of you pissed at their party. This, again, shows how much better we are than trolls. They will defend everything from their party, even if they watch Repubs killing troll´s mothers, they lower the bar every possible time; confronted with facts, they will spin until the idea fits their interests.
We stand by our principles, and they are not for sale, no matter who the f*ck is in charge or if we like them.
Again, I cant remember a more progressive thread here ever.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pmblah blah blah platitude jingolism blah blah blah platitude jingolism blah blah blah platitude jingolism blah blah blah platitude jingolism blah blah blah platitude jingolism.
Sorry Nancy, did you say something?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:54 pmTIME TO SHUT IT DOWN.
NO WORK, NO PURCHASES, NO TAXES = NO REVENUE
May 24th, 2007 at 9:55 pmThere would be no veto to override if there was no legislation passed to fund the war! Don’t buy this propaganda.
Comment by HeckuvahJob Brownie — May 24, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
“Do nothing” is not a solution to the problems in Iraq. It’s only politics, and nasty politics. Our troops are not coming home until they can safely get out of Iraq, and that is simply impossible right now. De-funding isn’t going to get them home any quicker.
May 24th, 2007 at 9:57 pm“We stand by our principles, and they are not for sale, no matter who the f*ck is in charge or if we like them.
Comment by Juan C — May 24, 2007 @ 9:53 pm”
They aught to name the thread after THAT :)
Well said!
May 24th, 2007 at 9:57 pmEric Foner, “Radical Individualism in America: Revolution to Civil War” (1978)
http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Essay.php?recordID=0789
May 24th, 2007 at 9:58 pmBy the way, will China write the check for this bill directly to Israel?
Comment by unbelievable — May 24, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
Didn’t you get the memo: HALLIBURTON IS IN UAE
Every Nazi that voted for this “WWIII Funding Bill,” voted for the destruction of Israel and the destruction of every Arab country except for UAE.
Why do you think Feingold is going cookoo?
May 24th, 2007 at 10:04 pmThis is sick. Everybody here knows this is nothing more than an election strategy. Herb Kohl was bragging that this bill will extend SeniorCare for 2 years. So he is bringing home the pork. I am all for that but not at the expense of our conscience. I would write Kohl but the corporatist sh!thead rarely responds and when he does it is in form. Kohl will not get my vote, ever again.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:06 pmKohl sold Feingold out. He is targetted in ‘08 now.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:07 pmSooner or later, even stupid Americans will catch on to this Democratic/Republican (single corporate Party) screwing of the American people.
Until that time, have fun.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:07 pmWhen is the next major anti-war protest? Since I don’t drink, I really need one of those right about now.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:11 pmwe’re supposed to believe you nancy because you’re a nice gramma and you have courage when it isn’t YOUR blood on the line? go away…just…GO AWAY NANCY and take harry with you!
May 24th, 2007 at 10:11 pmThe VichyCrats caved to Bush and they will feel our wrath.
Steny “used-car-salesman” Hoyer can claim any and all manner of “victory” that he wants but it’s still BS.
Don’t knock on my door Steny and Rahm and Harry and Dick:
YOU FAILED US!
May 24th, 2007 at 10:14 pmWhat is your point Abby? What is the plan? Just vote 3rd party in ‘08 and guarantee a Republican president and majority? I am just as pissed as you are about this but until we have systemwide reform no 3rd party has one sliver of a chance. Vote the losers out in the primaries or get on the anti-electoral college, pro-instant runoff bandwagon.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:20 pmYou were heard more than once by millions of Americans saying that under this new Congress, there will be no blank checks…and there will be accountability…
People are still waiting to see anything other than approval of spending and ‘toothless’ non binding resoltuions passed so far by this Congress,with regard to this war in Iraq.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:22 pmCome on, let’s keep it civil. Do you actually doubt that Pelosi, Murtha, and the rest of them want to end this war? Just because they have a different perspective on how to best go about it doesn’t mean they’re “traitors” or corrupt or dedicated to screwing the American people.
I’m disappointed too, but even if Congress had decided not to pass any supplemental at all, don’t think for a minute that Bush would have brought the troops home. They’d still be there on September 30. Hell, he’d probably sign an executive order declaring that he can transfer domestic budget items to fund the war, and September 30 would come and go before the courts would even begin to sort it all out.
We’re making progress. In January the national debate was about whether to support a surge. Now we’re debating withdrawal. The public is moving Congress, and Congress is moving the public. We’ll get there.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:23 pmI’ve heard that Democrats want Bush and the Republicans to own this occupation. Forget that troops and Iraqis are dying. It’s just a consultant-driven, grand policial strategy. No, I like and trust a few Democrats, but hey, I don’t trust most of them right now.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:23 pmSometimes I wonder, though, if they don’t plan their votes as a group, like: “Dodd, Clinton, and Obama, you three have to vote no because you’re running, you moderates should lean toward giving Bush what he wants, and you Blue Dogs, of course, will vote with Bush. Now let’s get outta here and go home!”
no trolls – yet. They must be dancing in the streets.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 24, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Sometimes you don’t need a troll, you guys are doing just fine!
May 24th, 2007 at 10:24 pmWhat does that actually mean beefeater? I know that you will back anything that Republicans do. I guess we liberals are just naturally better people than you.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:27 pmWhen is the next major anti-war protest? Since I don’t drink, I really need one of those right about now.
Comment by Vinnie — May 24, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
Vinnie, Vinnie when was the last one?
May 24th, 2007 at 10:28 pm“Didn’t you get the memo: HALLIBURTON IS IN UAE”
I saw. I was making a snide comment about China being the actual source of these funds, and the US not spending them on Iraq, but funneling them to defend Isreal, because the Fundies in charge think the “chosen people” live there and it’s their duty to protect them, no matter the cost.
“Every Nazi that voted for this “WWIII Funding Bill,†voted for the destruction of Israel and the destruction of every Arab country except for UAE.”
As long as these people are Christians, Israel will be protected.
“Why do you think Feingold is going cookoo?
Comment by iraq war must end — May 24, 2007 @ 10:04 pm”
Because he is one of us and knows the bad deal made in our name, and on our dime.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:29 pmSend the Dems some dog treats, for their roll-over trick…make it easier for Bush to rub their little bellies….
May 24th, 2007 at 10:30 pmBad Dog! BAAAAD DOG!
We’re making progress. In January the national debate was about whether to support a surge. Now we’re debating withdrawal. The public is moving Congress, and Congress is moving the public. We’ll get there.
Comment by Orange — May 24, 2007 @ 10:23 pm
Are you frickin kidding me????
You are just giving more evidence that dems want to position themselves for ‘08 at the expense of a thousand more dead american kids and at least 500k more innocent arab deaths.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:31 pm“Sometimes you don’t need a troll, you guys are doing just fine!
Comment by beefeater — May 24, 2007 @ 10:24 pm”
You’ve just revoked your right to ever again call us propaganda swallowers, line towers, and anything else associated with Republicanesque sheep-like blind faith behavior. Unlike you, our values are tied to party affliation (though many of us are Independents).
May 24th, 2007 at 10:32 pmare NOT tied
May 24th, 2007 at 10:37 pmunbelievable, it doesn’t matter. beefeater will still spout talking points. He will actually believe it when Limbaugh says libs are sheep. It won’t change a thing in his tiny little mind.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:41 pmSorry Nancy, you’ve got a lot of ground to make up in a very short time. We won’t automatically trust you, ever again.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:42 pmZoo, I think the only thing that will bring her back into the fold is putting impeachment on the table.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:45 pmComment by unbelievable — May 24, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
Ok, you are not completely off base, but please allow me to do some tweaking (I am a bit sensitive because the American Nazi Party is blogging all over blaming this bill on the jews):
As long as these people are Christians, Israel will be protected.
Neoconns hijacked the republican party and much of the christian right, some of them truly believe that an Israeli war will assist in the destruction of the golden mosque and then Jesus will appear. It is these Christians that I am worried about.
But you are accurate, more money will fund Al-Qaeda and Hammas in Lebennon to entice Israel to beef up its military (as if it had to) too.
One of the problems in Israel is Olmert has like a 2% approval rating and Arkady Gaydamak is gaining power. Everyone should know about him, he bought his way into Israeli power. He also is Russian, but question if he truly has jewish lineage. He is also wanted in France for war profiteering of over $600 million during the angola war. He keeps proding Olmert to invade Lebenon. He has recently bought a newspaper in Russia and a few soccer teams including one in UK.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:48 pmJPark, it would get me back — as long as she does something with after it’s on the table.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:49 pmSorry, Nancy, but you guys blew it big time. It’s obvious you can’t be trusted with our country.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:50 pmReally disappointing. What happened to doing the right thing?
May 24th, 2007 at 10:52 pm#57. Yes JPark.
Vote third party until the Democratic Party becomes extinct. We don’t need the Democratic Party, we need an opposition party and there will be no opposition party to balance this duopoly of a corporate party until the Democratic Party is extinct.
The lesser of the two evils simply does not cut it anymore. I am beginning to understand why most Americans do not even bother to vote anymore.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:52 pmI agree Zoo. If they don’t impeach, the Dems just threw the election.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:55 pmDito Lady Z, and may I add now I am down to one person only to vote for and against all the other’s…Kucenich is the only dem I will vote for and am checking out the other parties to align with…Yep! If I’m gonna be aligned with loosers atleast they will be anti war and corruption…From now on I’m realy working for change…Gonna get one last lick in with a no vote for all my representatives when they run…Blessings my vote against traitors and enabelers from now on.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:55 pmno trolls – yet. They must be dancing in the streets.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 24, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Nah, but to comment now as a troll would be in bad taste.
May 24th, 2007 at 10:56 pmMr. President. I appreciate your tact. Liberals are in mourning today.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:01 pmIt seems like Pelosi, like most liberals, ignore history. How would Pelosi explain away the ATOMIC BOMB on Japan? Seems like that last violent act brought about an incredible length of peace. I don’t see violent Japanese reactions to that one.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:01 pmThe Dems once again cave to an overwhelmingly-and rightly so-unpopular President, a bully who’s never been held accountable in his life for any of his self-inflicted screw-ups
What makes this decision even more of a very bitter pill to swallow is that, politically, it doesn’t make any sense at all, not with the GOP cracking over W’s policies, and not with the Administration being in complete Free Fall right now, beset by political opportunists, formerly loyal political allies in the Congress and abroad, self-inflicted scandals rocking almost every Department, Bureau & Agency under Administration control and the consequences of a President’s disastrous military leadership that hasn’t yet gotten correct even one pre-occupation prediction of post-Hussein Iraq
It’s as if W is not only on the precipice of a rapidly crumbling ledge, but also on grease-slicked banana peels, and instead of giving W a hearty push, the Dem leadership instead pulls him away from his richly-earned political drop, and then apologizes for any mussing of his suit they caused in the process of rescuing President Jr from himself
But now the vote is done, and over 80 democrats need to pay a price electorally in the House for sucking up to W and the GOP
I hate the helpless aspect of the rage, which is why I’m tossing out one idea, won’t do anything about W’s occupation, but it sure would feel good to see the following, even though, since it requires a spine, the Dems aren’t likely to go for it, from a blog post I did yesterday
Since the 2008 budgets will start coming up for Congressional votes in September, the Dems should say “enough” to funding all right
That is, funding the Executive Branch
I’m not talking about zeroing-out budgets for the agencies, departments and bureaus under Executive Branch control, just funding for the Executive Branch itself, it’s functions and personnel who work exclusively at the White House
Pass the various budgets, then let the Administration shift funds around, like it already does, to keep itself operating
And if the argument arises that such a punitive, spiteful act is illegal, or somehow beyond Congress’ purview, then let Congress pay as much heed to the laws and separation of powers that W does, and then go the extra step
Let Congress issue a signing statement of its own, namely, that they apportion to themselves the right to cancel out Presidential signing statements, preemptively blocking W’s ability to undercut the very bills he signs into law
Forcing the issue is exactly what the Administration, GOP and their rapidly dwindling number of true believers will never expect in the midst of their gloating, it would be a way to hit back as hard at a clearly out of control President as he enjoys lashing out at everyone else, and it would instantly regain the Dem leadership a measure of now non-existent trust from its very angry base
With or without the Dems help, the GOP collapse is already under way, as the party knows that it can’t count on help from an embattled, bunkered-down Administration, yet still hasn’t found enough strength to toss the President and Cheney over the political rail, in spite of the smacking the voters gave the GOP and Administration’s Iraq policy in the November 2006 elections
The GOP needs to be pushed off the political ledge, and the Dems can’t do that by giving W everything he wants every time he throws a hissy fit and stamps his little feetsies in whiny petulance
So, like so many parents when they threaten to “give you something to cry about”, let the Dems give W something to throw a temper tantrum over, just like taking a favored belonging away from a spoiled brat
Zero Out the Executive Branch Funding At The First Available Opportunity
At the very least, stop giving W badly-needed, cost-free political victories
May 24th, 2007 at 11:03 pmWhat Eric? Really, WHAT???
May 24th, 2007 at 11:04 pmMr. President. I appreciate your tact. Liberals are in mourning today.
Comment by JPark — May 24, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
Normally, I just screw around because of all the hope I see in the comments here; people seem to really believe that a difference can be made. I never vote, never have, (most likely never will), but it’s sad, sad thing I see going on here today.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:06 pmSorry Nancy, you’ve got a lot of ground to make up in a very short time. We won’t automatically trust you, ever again.
Comment by Zooey — May 24, 2007 @ 10:42 pm
Which of course begs the question, why would you have automatically trusted her in the 1st place? Perhaps you were being a propaganda swallowing, line towing sheep before.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:08 pmWhy is hope a bad thing, Mr. President? Until now (especially after the election) there was a reason for hope. It is dead now, and let me assure you I am cynical as they come, but I don’t understand why you automatically assumed we were all doomed?
May 24th, 2007 at 11:11 pmbeefeater, you trust Bush, who has betrayed the US numerous times. You have NO right to ask that question!!
May 24th, 2007 at 11:12 pmbeefeater, you speak of your own kind when you speak of sheep.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:12 pmWhich of course begs the question, why would you have automatically trusted her in the 1st place? Perhaps you were being a propaganda swallowing, line towing sheep before.
Comment by beefeater
Whatever. What’s your problem anyway? Stick up your ass? Half a brain?
F*ck off moron.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:14 pmComment by beefeater — May 24, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
Beefeater, you’re abusing the tools of logic which I bestowed upon you. Zooey’s comment does not beg the question. Because she explicitly states that she “automatically” trusted Pelosi.
Begging the question, or in Latin, petitio principii, is when the conclusion is implicite in the premises of an argument.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:14 pmWhich of course begs the question, why would you have automatically trusted her in the 1st place? Perhaps you were being a propaganda swallowing, line towing sheep before.
Comment by beefeater — May 24, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
I am the first to admit that I most definitely fell into that category, never again!
I am voting for integrity, voting record, research into possible conflict of interests, ideals, principals, courage.
And I will never trust the mainstream media as a source for anything again!
May 24th, 2007 at 11:17 pmWhy is hope a bad thing, Mr. President? Until now (especially after the election) there was a reason for hope. It is dead now, and let me assure you I am cynical as they come, but I don’t understand why you automatically assumed we were all doomed?
Comment by JPark — May 24, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
I don’t really understand either.
But I can tell you when it happened: when Bush was first elected and the whole scandal about the ballots came out, I was one month shy of voting age. For some reason, when I started to hear more about Jeb and uncounted votes and such, all I could do was laugh.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:18 pmErratum: post #90) no “e” in implicit
May 24th, 2007 at 11:20 pmKing Cranky, I like your good ideas and well written thought, however; as we just witnessed our Dem’s are enabelers and won’t even vote with us now, there’s absolutely no way any of this will happen..Ever..It’s a done deal and hundred’s of thousand’s are thinking like me. screw these parties, both of them..Save the one or two sensible people and boot the rest of the basterd’s out…Blessings, get ready for a whole lot of ugly.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:20 pmI wish I could laugh about it Mr. Pres. I knew Bush taking office sucked but I had no idea he would set us back 60 years. Maybe it was hysterical laughter that means the opposite of laughing.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:25 pmMr. Pres. I voted for Gore. I was not enamored with him. He was obviously coached by the beltway pundits. Those guys need to swing. They have lost the last two elections. I had friends who voted for Bush. I asked them why. They had no real answers. They just said “I like him”. I wish I could have had a beer with him. Maybe he would have relapsed.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:28 pmThe Bush team started a war based upon FAKE evidence of yellow-cake. The Bush team has not explained when it knew the evidence was FAKE. Could the Bush team have known prior to the President’s State of the Union speech in 2003 that “evidence of an Iraqi uranium purchase from Niger was a fake?
Should an Impeachment inquiry search for the answer? You bet! ImpeachBush.org has a list of 20 reasons to impeach President Bush.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:30 pmbezelt, impeachment just became a pipe dream.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:31 pmImpeachment was taken off the table right after the 2006 election, if I remember correctly…We only have a hand full of representatives and no one that can get it done or will get it done…it’s over, they will glad hand and make meaningles speeches untill bush is out and no the dem’s will not win in 2008 unless they do something realy drastick in the near future…They threw away our vote’s, the lives of our service men and women and hundred’s of thousand’s of men women and children in Iraq for oil and the ego of a madman that started the downfall of a once great country..Bush, the simple minded son of a bitch will give us all to Saudi Arabia,Israel, Dubi or any other oil magnet coming down the pike, hell he already has and now the Dem’s are helping him…..Blressings
May 24th, 2007 at 11:43 pmToday was a moment of truth, the roll call indicates clearly both parties are feeding at K-Street and have no intention of ending the war profiteering. Citizens need to clean both parties and/or support or form a third. Neither party is even close to representing the citizens’ best interest.
May 24th, 2007 at 11:43 pmFools on the Hill. you are correct, in fact they are all taged as traitors by me..I’m going my own way and it only support’s Kucenich right now and voting all dem’s out that supported this madness..Looking at a diffrent party..Blessings
May 24th, 2007 at 11:51 pmWow I remember stating that this whole thing is simply a propaganda show here at home so that marches, riots, uprisings, civil war and the like can be held off by the power of suggestion…
The Big Lie is that we are working to get them home. The actual wording was to “redeploy them” and the truth is that we will never leave Iraq and are now going to strike Iran.
Don’t even worry about the little diversion in Iraq, Bush wants to NUKE Iran. Remember how the cold war ended? Don’t sweat anything that is back on now too thanks to Bush treating Putin like an idiot.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:11 amAs we think about all of this, I’d like to recall the words of a philosopher, Hannah Arendt, who once observed that nations are driven to an endless flywheel of violence because they believe that one last, one final gesture of violence will bring peace. But each time they sow the seeds for more violence.
I don’t think this particularly applies to the congressional situation (maybe a bit), but I do agree with the statement in general, it’s nicely said.
In terms of the Iraq war, itself, it is very valid.
May 25th, 2007 at 1:30 amHigh probability 2006 elections were fixed in a way no one ever thought of
OK here is the info on the Blank Check Iraq Vote:
10 freshmen senators
8 Democrats
1 independent
1 Republican
Independent voted NO
Only one other (Whiteshouse) voted NO
The rest voted YES
Here is the info:
May 25th, 2007 at 1:41 amBrown (D-OH), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Nay
“…nations are driven to an endless flywheel of violence because they believe that one last, one final gesture of violence will bring peace. But each time they sow the seeds for more violence.”
The money given to the arms industry perpetuates itself, an economic daisy-cutter…
May 25th, 2007 at 1:51 amThis War is brought to you by the American Taxpayer. “We pay taxes so the rich don’t have to.”
Also sponsored by Halliburton, a Dubai Corporation, working hardly for your money.
And funded wholly or in part through loans from Communist China, where lending Americans money to buy Chinese-made goods is just good business.
Additional funding provided by the Yellow Ribbon Magnet Corporation and the Flag-Draped Coffin Manufacturers Association.
The sponsors of this war want to extend their thanks to the Democratic-controlled Congress for ensuring their profits well through the 3rd quarter of 2007, and look forward to a continued rewarding working relationship with the Democratic leadership in both the House and the Senate.
May 25th, 2007 at 1:57 amWhatever. What’s your problem anyway? Stick up your ass? Half a brain?
F*ck off moron.
Comment by Zooey — May 24, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
WOW! You seemed to have knocked TP offline with that lightning bolt of wit.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:01 amI called my congressmen, left a message. I called Hillary, (my senator) and left a message. They didn’t hear the vote that put them in the majority. They didn’t listen to my message or anyone else either, I’m sure. This is an incredibly black period in our history, and I am sickened. We have a “President” with the lowest approval rating in my lifetime, and these spineless cowards couldn’t get this done? I’m sick of the speeches of outrage, and these solemn expressions as they grudgingly let this bastard administration get away with murder, in every sense of the word.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:02 amIn a remark to illustrate that racism was everywhere in the United States, Martin Luther King once said, South South, and there’s the North South.” I truly believe there’s a Right Right, and there’s a Left Right.” It’s time to think about alternative parties. No more money for them. No more votes for them. They can “baby step” out of office and the sooner the better.
My Dem representative, Silvestre Reyes, was one of the 86 House Dems who voted to give ChickenHawk W his no-accountability blank check
In Reyes last campaign, he ran against a Libertarian who didn’t advertise at all during the race, yet Reyes wasn’t able to pull in at least 60% of the vote, even here in the bluest part of Texas
I’m so looking forward to helping the Dems House version of Lieberman find another line of work come November 2008, although it’s a very uphill task to be sure
May 25th, 2007 at 2:40 amWOW! You seemed to have knocked TP offline with that lightning bolt of wit.
Comment by beefeater
You are confused. She just knocked your sorry, pitiful diatribe away, like it should. You are irrelevant, ignorant and pathetic. Your post here is intended to hurt people whose only wish is to stop the killing of YOUR troops. You are worst than a murderer, a coward murderer supporter.
May 25th, 2007 at 2:49 amYou were supposed to close your ranks and take a stand, Nancy/Harry, not take f*cking “baby steps”. What a great strategy you people have come up with: hand the kill-monkey a huge victory, divide your own party with a meat cleaver, and throw away the main issue that brought you back into power. Brilliant
May 25th, 2007 at 2:57 amComment by Juan C — May 25, 2007 @ 2:49 am
Now I’m concerned. I wasn’t aware that Zooey needed to be protected from a meany troll. Somehow I thought that she could handle it on her own.
Try singing this to yourself, you’ll feel better;
Do you really want to hurt me
May 25th, 2007 at 3:28 amDo you really want to make me cry
Do you really want to hurt me
Do you really want to make me cry
Oh just shut up Pelosi. We didn’t vote the Democrats in for this crap. The Republicans might be bullies, thugs and crooks but that is preferable to sniveling cowards like the Democrats. Like the song says, “We won’t be fooled again.” I wouldn’t vote for a Republican Thug if someone held a gun to my head. But no Democrat can ever count on my vote again either. Ever! By the way Dimwitted Dems, congratulations, this war now belongs to you just as much as it belongs to GeeDubya.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:18 amAS I PREVIOUSLY POSTED – -
- THEY MADE THE PROMISE OF THE MOST ACCOUNTABLE CONGRESS EVER
- AND THAT WAS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
- TO GET US ON THE RIGHT TRACK
- SERVE THE PEOPLE
- STOP THE CORRUPTION
- CLEAN IT UP
HOW MANY OTHER FRIGGIN AND THIS AIN’T NO SUPERFICIAL OR LITTLE
WHITE LIE ISSUE, PROMISES DID THEY “THINGS STATE”
AND NOW THEY JUST CAN’T DO ANYTHING
THEY WON’T DO ANYTHING
NOW — WHEN A PROMISE IS MADE
OH WHAT’S THE DOG GONE USE…. MAKING PROMISES AND NOT KEEPING
THEM IS THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK AS FAR BACK AS I CAN REMEMBER
I CONSIDER THAT LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE
SHIFTY EYED FAST SMOOTH TALKING, WHATEVER THE EXCUSE
DUDE
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE NOT…………
WITH FAST SMOOTH TALKING CORRUPTION DUDE
AND JUST WAIT DUDE UNTIL THINGS GET REALLY BAD TO OCCUPY THE
NEWS
IT’S COMIN DUDE… THESE SWINDLERS WANT TO SMOOZE WITH K STREET
ANOTHER LIE
THEY SOLD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DUDE
THAT IS THE TRUST AND RELATIONSHIP TIES HAVE BEEN BROKEN DUDE
LIKE NO DEAL
IT IS
SO DOG GONE CORRUPT DUDE
IT’S FRIGGIN AND THIS ISSUE DESERVES EXACTLY THIS
FOR EVERYONE TO PUKE DUDE…. EVERY LIAR, SWINDLER, HOODLUM
STRAIGHT TO THE SLAMMER DUDE
THAT IS THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY TO BE THE MOST ACCOUNTABLE
FRIGGIN IN THE SLAMMER !!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW THAT’S FOR MOST ACCOUNTABLE TO SERVE THE PEOPLE
IT’S SO FRIGGIN DISGUSTING DUDE, IT’S PATHETIC DUDE
IT’S A COMPLETE SLAP IN ALL AMERICAN PEOPLE
TO DO SMOOTH FAST OUTRIGHT LYING
AND FOLLOW IT THROUGH WITH THE DOG GONE ACTIONS
SO DOG GONE TOTALLY FRIGGIN CORRUPTED DUDE
IT’S ENOUGH TO BARF THEM OUT
May 25th, 2007 at 6:20 amSome of these angry comments could have been written by paid agents of the Republican Party. But there’s no need to pay for what the liberals do for free…
My friends, I urge you to calm down. You might consider an anger management class. A little brush up on how the legislative body works might also be good.
Fellow liberals, get a grip. Please stop thinking in adolescent terms, framing the world as a battle between good and evil, and demanding instant gratification of your desires. This is politics, with setbacks, compromises, realignments, and the whole legislative bit. If you attack your own leaders every time things don’t go your way, the Republicans will surely win.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:39 amFellow liberals, get a grip. Please stop thinking in adolescent terms, framing the world as a battle between good and evil, and demanding instant gratification of your desires. This is politics, with setbacks, compromises, realignments, and the whole legislative bit. If you attack your own leaders every time things don’t go your way, the Republicans will surely win.
Comment by Perry Logan — May 25, 2007 @ 6:39 am
Perry get a clue, there no longer are republicans and democrats in my book. There are now only patriots and traitors. We elected a new party thinking that wouls make a difference. Now we find out that 8 out of 10 of the new senators we spent energy, money, time, emotions to elect stab us right in the back (no mistake about it). How can you still tote the party line as if party had anything to do with change in this country? Read ballot v. bullet, this crap was done 40 years ago to us with the same results.
May 25th, 2007 at 7:43 amWow! I remember stating that this whole thing is simply a propaganda show here at home so that marches, riots, uprisings, civil war and the like can be held off by the power of suggestion…
The Big Lie is that we are working to get them home. The actual wording was to “redeploy them†and the truth is that we will never leave Iraq and are now going to strike Iran.
Don’t even worry about the little diversion in Iraq, Bush wants to NUKE Iran. Remember how the cold war ended? Don’t sweat anything that is back on now too thanks to Bush treating Putin like an idiot.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:20 amPersonally, I prefer the platform of the Peace and Freedom Party.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 24, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
I’m with you on that one. After working my butt off getting Democrats to win in Republican districts, I feel abandoned by the Party. The Democrats look whimpy, whimpy, whimpy. WTF are they afraid of? I agree, we should vote out all the Democrats that supported this bill. That means we need to find viable candidates for next year’s Primary.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:20 amNo more words. Action.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:27 amIf you attack your own leaders every time things don’t go your way, the Republicans will surely win.
That’s the very point; it DOESN’T MATTER if the Republicans win because the Democrats—on core issues like stopping the war and restoring the Constitution—don’t change anything.
It’s not the number of votes; it’s the fact that when they COULD stop the war, they chose not to.
I am not fighting for the Democrats; I’m fighting to end the war and restore the Constitution…the Democrats (like the Republicans) are not on my side.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:31 amMr President, if you don’t vote, then your comments are just taking up space and are meaningly. The complaint booth is the voting booth. So either vote for stfu.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:41 amGovernor Bill Richardson did not throw away our votes and I will support him for President in 2008.
Democrats – what fools. Do they really believe that the supplemental funding is going to buy better equipment for our troops… equipment that will make our troops safe? Hell no, this money is going to support AlQeada and Halliburton and NOT OUR TROOPS. Liars and crooks… all of them. As stated, the only candidates getting my support and money will be Bill Richardson and my local PA legislator, Dave Kessler, who is doing a super job for the people in his district in Harrisburg. Other than that, the Democratic Party won’t be getting any more of my money.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:50 amIt is difficult to understand America ignoring starting a war based upon a FAKE document.
And with respect to that FAKE “document”, some are asking: what did the President know and when did the President know it?
Did THIS President know the “document” was a fake before his 2003 State of the Union Address? If THIS President knew the document was a fake, prior to his 2003 State of the Union Address, would his “character” have prevented him from talking about an Iraqi nuclear threat during his 2003 State of the Union Address?
If Ex President Eisenhower’s character prevented him from swearing in front of a lady, that should indicate that President’s do have character. What about Mr. Bush’s character? What would Mr. Bush’s character prevent him from doing?
America should not bury the concept of impeachment simply because THIS President has become immune to the LAWS OF AMERICA.
If the human caretakers of America’s treasured documents don’t do the right thing by those documents, then those human caretakers should be replaced with human caretakers who will do the right thing by those documents.
While I now understand the Bush team will behave as it wants to, there should be consequences for bad behavior. This president may feel he was annointed, he was not. The process that got him into office was an election by the electorate and maybe with a little extra “push” from electronic voting machines.
I accept that there is no hope for an ethical, law abiding Bush team. But there should be hope for America – standing for what America has stood for in the past.
When President Nixon operated out side his authority, Congress was willing to hold him accountable. But you would be hard pressed to find a case where today’s Republican Congressmen wanted to hold its own accountable for anything. And that goes back to the Tom DeLay days of 2004.
Remember the Texas Prosecutor was the reason why America was introduced to Mr. Abramoff. The House Ethics Committee gave Mr. DeLay a pass and then went back into “HIBERNATION”.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:56 am#
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 25, 2007 @ 1:57 am
#
Well, stated. Thanks for stating “flag draped coffins” and not Coffins draped with flags.
May 25th, 2007 at 8:56 am2006 Election: We spent time, Energy, Money, Emotions supporting a change in government for the sole purpose of ending the war. We have been swindled BIG TIME!
Con someone find out what happened? I think this is the most important issue; do we really have a transparent government or is the whole thing a facade?
Grand Illusion? All The World’s A Stage?
May 25th, 2007 at 8:58 amYou say vote them out. This is not so easy to do. I am from Wisconsin and we have been trying to get Rep. James Sensenbrenner out of office for years.
There is not enough debates between candidates. In Wi we had a state Treasurer that was a Democrat and I went on her website and she did not give her quilification. What was on there was this women wearing a skimpey little outfit. I think people don’t look at each candidate. They will just vote straight party. Needless to say I voted for someone else not a Democrat or a Republican. She won. I was not happy about this.
I still have Hope. What every happens will happen.
All we can do is keep calling our Senator and Representative and signing petition and have Peaceful antiwar rally.
I must say we need to have Impeachment put back on the table. First we need to Impeach Cheney and than Old Bush and his Administration.
Pelosi need to step down as Speaker of the House and put Muratha as Speaker. For the Senate we need Russ Feingold as Majority leader.
I have my ballot sent to me that way I can see who is on the ballot.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:10 amAnyway you look at it,the Democrats caved in to Bush.,due to lack of conviction,no good planning,or being none responsive to their base,or for other reasons we do not know yet.
What does this Congress considers ’success’ when 72% of the Americans think we are going the wrong direction in this war in Iraq; over 65% against the war, Bush popularity is below 28%,yet Democrats blinked.
Democrats won the last elections on this ‘war in Iraq’ issue alone…yet we have now more soldiers in Iraq than before the elections of Nov. 2006,and more on the way.
The money approved is much more than we spent in years before…
Bush yesterday offered nothing that is certain in this war except more bloodshed and more of the same. Yet Democrats who won the House after a long time,did not connect to their base…and the majority voice on this issue.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:15 amNow there are stories in the media talking about another war is being planned against Iran. Will this Congress do something,before the bullets begin to fly….? Because Bush is going to come and ask Congress for more billions of dollars for Iran planned war…
Look people the fact is our economy is directly linked to OIL. Saudi Arabia is now in permanent decline (and has been since 2000) so the military is shifting to another area that will help us buy a little more time. Even with all of that we will see material shortages this summer. This is why both parties don’t mesh with the average person these days.
The military is running the entire show and congress is supporting that effort. They want their $620B worth but don’t agree on a particular method. They just want Bush to keep the whole thing a little more quiet (propaganda).
The USA is about to collapse and all of the things that Congress and the President do point to that impending disaster. The Soviet Union was broken down by the exact same method that we will succumb to. The government is incrementally militarizing the USA. If you speak of treasonous actions like a general strike or a revolt the drama will engulf us all.
When we heard that phrase, “You are with us or you are with the terrorists” he made the direction taken CLEAR! There is really no way out of this mess. Voting is a long way off and is probably fixed. General strikes will be met by the police. Revolts will be crushed by mercenaries, military and police. If a popular uprising were to be a success in operation it would be an economic disaster because we would lose the OIL.
Dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t!
May 25th, 2007 at 9:23 amThat is another big difference between the Democrats and the “Party Before Country” Party…the loyalty of their members.
It’s taked GW almost 8 years to screw this country up. The Democrats can’t fix everything within a few months, especially with a narrow majority. They still have my support, and would have it more if they would impeach the current administration.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:40 amComment by Kiki — May 25, 2007 @ 9:40 am
Oh please! Give it a rest.
Nancy Pelosi, “Impeachment is off the table!”
you were saying?
May 25th, 2007 at 9:47 amWhile there seems to be comments against the Democrats for THIS President’s winning the game of “chicken”, it should not be.
It has been said, that THIS President will, if he believes he is right, “stick to his ideas”. And no where is that mindset better displayed than in the Iraq war.
The Iraq war had been “carefully” planned by “civilian generals” to allow entry into and exit from the war within a year or so. But reality failed to comply with the Bush teams plans. Four years later the Bush team’S war plans produced CHAOS in the streets of Iraq.
Some in America thought adjustments should be made in the Iraqi war plans but if Mr. Bush thinks he is right, he will “stay the course”. Looking disaster straight in the eye, still “stay the course”.
If Mr. Bush thought his Iraq war funding request was right, he would likely “not blink” in his request. Whatever happens, happens. The Democrats did not want to make this serious matter into a game of “chicken”.
And in Iraq today, we are looking at a glaring display of a built in failure of the Iraq war. Failure seems to have been a “built in feature”.
The then(2003) Secretary of State said, with respect to Iraq, something like, “If you break it, you own it”.
But It has been said that Mr. Bush will “go right ahead when he believes he is right”. He did go right ahead with the plan to go after Saddam Hussein.
Mr. Bush got Saddam Hussein and that won the war. But at the same time it lost the country.
The Bush team broke Iraq in 2003 by removing its sitting government. And the government was replaced with NOTHING! So, the Bush team won the war in 2003 and lost the country in 2003. The Bush team did not “blink”. When the Bush team believes it is right, it will charge ahead. Whatever happens, happens.
The world has to be aware of the Bush team’s behavior. “Best you don’t play chicken with the Bush team” unless you are prepared for any and all consequences.
America has a fix for the Bush team’s performance but it requires the United States Congress. And that includes REPUBLICANS.
May 25th, 2007 at 9:51 amTesting one, two , three …
May 25th, 2007 at 9:57 amBye, bye
May 25th, 2007 at 9:58 amEdwards/Feingold 2008.
They are the only leaders of this party that are urging the majority in the congress to keep sending the same bill up to the president over and over, which doesn’t go far enough in my view.
What they should do is gather with all of the generals who have come out against this war and figure out exactly how much it will cost to bring our troops home, how long it will take to bring our troops home, and exactly how they will be brought home.
Write it up as legislation and send it to the president. Specifiy that the funding will only be used for bringing our troops home and if the president doesn’t sign it, then he’s the one who will be responsible for not ending the war.
This bill should be sold to the American people as “We ARE Supporting Our Troops, We Are Bringing Them Home.”
A National Day of Honoring our Iraqi heroes should be declared when the last troop is home.And when they come home we should throw a ticker tape parade for them in the Top 25 populated cities all over the country on the same day. It should be declared a one time National Holiday.
Then those troops after a lengty rest shold be deployed on our southern AND northern borders. They should be deployed at airports, nuclear power plants, major water supplies, and our ports.
The best offense is a good defense.
Also. More troops need to be put into Afghanistan and we should finally hunt down Bin Laden even if it means going into Pakistan territories that border Afghanistan.
Then the President should sit down with the leaders of Iraq (when one emerges after they are tired of killing each other)Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and other countries in the Middle East.
He should tell them straight out. If there is another major terrorist attack inside of our country that our response to the country that is proven to be hiding them will be nuked and those countries had better step up their own methods of rooting out terrorists inside of their own country, before they ever think of attacking America again.
May 25th, 2007 at 10:04 amWOW! You seemed to have knocked TP offline with that lightning bolt of wit.
Comment by beefeater
**yawn**
Gonna answer the questions?
May 25th, 2007 at 10:24 amI’m with you Speaker Pelosi. This is only the second vote on Iraq war funding. It is an important , albeit small step. We got some other funding sorted out, and we have some benchmarks for the Iraqi’s to meet, even though they’re non-binding. Still, we are making headway. Come September however, I expect the pressure and the tactics used against this worst of presidents to be ratcheted up significantly and dramatically to finally end this war.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:18 amThis war is five years in the making, and you’ve only been in office five months. Unlike most of my well intentioned but misguided progressives here, I understand that we can’t just wish this war away. As simple as some would like to portray this dilema, the world is not black and white. Come on people, we’ve been ridiculing, rightfully so, Bush the liar and the neocons simplistic view of the “war” and the world. Now I feel that some of you are engaging in the same kind of reactionary thinking. The troops in harm’s way deserve better, true. But this standoff isn’t just about the Iraq war funding, it’s about the future of our country and the world. You’re all buying into the mainstream media’s portrayal of the Democrats caving into Bush. The fact alone that the mainstream media jumped on this issue and is attempting to make the democrats look weak should give you pause. This war funding bill won’t end the war, but it’s a step in the right direction. I also feel passionately about the troops and their suffering. But we have to let cold counsel, not our passions, prevail. Some of you say the dems are just watching their asses and their careers. But truthfully, there’s more on the line here. We can’t survive another republican congress and a republican president.The entire future of mankind is at stake.
#136 dantherman
Your last two sentences are so very true. We can’t survive another Republican congress and a Republican President. The entire future of mankind is at stake. If we only had a crystal ball to see what the future will be.
May 25th, 2007 at 11:33 amTake a breather, everyone. This isn’t take out at the drive through. They caved this time. We are still way better off than we were 1 year ago. There are still options on the table. So what if Petraus gets his funding secured through the surge. When things don’t work (which they won’t), then even Repukes won’t be able to justify their vote.
These people are grasping at straws. Give a few months, they have the one that broke the Camel’s back.
And for all you third partiers. You are pissing on all of us who worked hard to take back the party in ‘06. I was one of the idiots who voted for Nader in 2000 and gave the White House to Bush. I won’t make that mistake again. Wise up.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:30 pmPost # 128 spoke of OIL. I remembered Secretary Rumsfeld giving information about “the oil”. I searched the net and found the interview with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on Infinity Radio, 14 November 2002.
Here is a portion of that interview:
Kroft: Mr. Secretary, what do you say to people who think this is about oil?
Rumsfeld: Nonsense. It just isn’t. There are certain things like that, myths, that are floating around. I’m glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil. It has nothing to do with the religion. People who have a viewpoint frequently throw up those two issues, and say, well, this is really against Muslims, which it certainly isn’t. The United States is the country that went in and helped Kuwait, a Muslim country. We worked in Bosnia to stop ethnic cleansing. We’ve done Afghanistan. And it’s certainly not about oil. Oil is fungible, and people who own it want to sell it, and it will be available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The full interview can be found at:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/infinity.htm
May 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm“We can’t survive another republican congress and a republican president.The entire future of mankind is at stake.”
Regardless of whether or not that’s true, the dems have just proven themselves to NOT be the answer.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pmYesterday I resigned from the party my great-great-great-great-great-grandfather founded and for which I have faithfully toiled my whole life. Today as I join the Independent majority, I feel, for the first time in a long time, clean and have new energy to undertake the difficult job of restoring the America Mr. Jefferson wanted us to have.
Free to follow my own conscience-driven counsel, I can support those of whatever party who will have the courage worthy of that support. If in so doing a party is recreated worthy of my support as well, I will also be free to join it.
Until then, I will just be free and able to truthfully say that, while I may have been born a Democrat, today, now that I am no longer one, I was not born yesterday.
May 25th, 2007 at 12:51 pmComment by bezelt — May 25, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
…and???
May 25th, 2007 at 1:17 pmLosingFaith,
What would you have done differently or what should the Democrats have done differently? There were two possible outcomes; release the money or not release the money.
I get the feeling, after observing the Bush team’s performance, that either of those outcomes would be acceptable, so long as the Bush team was being faithful to its mindset.
The Bush team has a string of failures to its credit. One more failure would not change the perception by much.
It seems to be a Republican trait to follow their mindset even when conditions seem to indicate otherwise. Staying the course seems to be a worth while trait.
If in 1928, the mindset said “apply tariffs”. That is what was done. And even though feedback(those disturbing pictures of Americans in distress) said change course, it took a different party to recognize the need to change course.
The Democrats are not now and have never been oblivious to the pain and suffering of Americans. And that is good!
May 25th, 2007 at 1:20 pmWe need a no-confidence vote on Pelosi and Reid ASAP. Under their “leadership” they have failed at EVERYTHING they promised upon being elected to the majority. They haven’t reversed a single egregious law that the former GOP passed (often with LOTS of Dem help) such as the Patriot Act, AUMF, suspension of Habeas Corpus, tax cuts for the wealthy, and most of all, THE reason they are in the majority is because an overwhelming number of Americans want us out of Iraq – they have instead given Bush a blank check that makes the Dems full partners in the Iraq occupation. They can no longer claim it is Bush’s war or the GOP’s war. It is a bipartisan war fed by oil greed (the Hydrocarbon bill in Iraq that protects Exxon, etc).
Under Reid’s and Pelosi’s leadership, they have driven congressional approval levels down to be the equal of Bush’s.
Pelosi wants to argue that the minimum wage is more than compensation for giving Bush a blank check on Iraq? Very wrong.
No confidence in Reid or Pelosi! Resign resign resign!
May 25th, 2007 at 2:53 pmIt is a bipartisan war fed by oil greed (the Hydrocarbon bill in Iraq that protects Exxon, etc).
Comment by Terminus Est — May 25, 2007 @ 2:53 pm
Is it oil greed or that Saddam switched to the Euro Dollar just like Iran and North Korea? What happens in the USA if we don’t secure the oil and the currency that oil is traded in? If we don’t take control of the resources doesn’t that just put those resources up for grabs to China?
May 25th, 2007 at 3:32 pm#139 bezelt
You are totally wrong that we did not go into Iraq for OIL. Who cares what Don Rumfelt says anyway. You have two OIL nitwits in the White House.
The four big oil companies wrote a law in english that the Iraq government has to vote on. The oil companies will get an contract for 30 years to steal the Iraq OIL. They will control the OIL. Get It. If the Iraq government are smart they will vote against this. There is a petition to stop Bush and his cronies to steal the Iraq OIL.
May 25th, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by Mary Poplins — May 25, 2007 @ 3:43 pm
Many of the posters here believe that Peak Oil is nothing more than a scam created by Big Oil and the Neocons. Deep down everyone knows that the industrial age is drawing to a close but you simply cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Imagine if Rumsfeld came clean in that interview. Everyone in the USA would have run on the bank, cashed in everything, stopped making large purchases and watched the stock market crash all based on the reality that our entire economy and all of our goods rely on fossil fuel.
While I realize that what we are doing is as nasty as nasty can be it could be that much worse. Pretend for a moment that we didn’t invade Iraq what would have happened? We must on some level realize that the USA installed Saddam in Iraq? We must realize that Iraq used to be property of Great Britain for more than 45 years? You do know that Iraq had a nobler name before WW1 called Mesopotamia?
Oil is so tight right now that if we didn’t jump for the pole position then OPEC would gain strength rather than loose it with the loss of Saudi Arabia. China is still growing and would love to have Iraq as its own little gas pump in the sand too. We must remember that Russia desires energy too. If we didn’t then they would have instead.
Kuwait used to be a good logistical oil supply to the USA and Bush 1 rose to their defense even though Bush 1 created Saddam. It is beyond pathetic when I consider that there was even a Bush that had his hand in WW2 (Prescott). Make no mistake that our appetite for destruction is the root of all of this.
Posters here must prey to the “God of Alternative Energy” but he does not hear them since his iPod is turned up too loud. I posted an article on another thread here talking about the “demand destruction” and “supply shortages that we can expect this summer. A few people read it but it was majorly overlooked since if it were true than we are at the end of the nozzle so to speak.
Posters here don’t want to acknowledge that OIL = FOOD and when we consider that most of the things we do depend on fossil fuel they slip directly into the safety of denial. Others want to believe that technology will save us but instead it will make the crash & cull that much more devastating.
With Ghawar’s output dropping daily there is little time left. The USA will be forced to drill of all coasts and in Alaska. Soon enough we will taste the bitter waters of blackouts and shortages of EVERYTHING. Once that happens you can count on martial law and rationing. It is likely that many of us will be soldiers when conditions around the nation decline.
Posters here want to pretend that the politicians (bunch of lawyers) care about all of us. They fail to realize that Nancy Pelosi likes her car, travel, food, water, sanitation and 4, ooo sq. ft. homes too. She wants the oil no matter what and understands that people will die so long as it is not her.
We are slaves and they are the ruling class. You are with us or you are with the terrorists!
May 25th, 2007 at 4:36 pmSo Pelosi is stating that this bill that passed without timelines for troop withdrawal was a ‘fig leaf”?
Democrats, you just got screwed. I’m sorry, let me rephrase that. Democrats you just got screwed again.
How long are you Democrats going to back the likes of Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers before you realize they don’t represent you?
Don’t you remember John Conyers’ bravado when he was in the minority?
He held impeachment press conferences (hearings) in the basement of the capitol building because the Republicans wouldn’t give him a decent room to hold his hearings in. He published a book, ‘What Went Wrong in Ohio’. He swore that if the Democrats gained congressional majority he would hold impeachment hearings of George Dubya and Dick (head) Cheney.
What happened when John Conyers’ democrats did gain the majority? Impeachment went off the table, thank you very much.
I’ve viewed the votes in the Senate for or against this bill. Hillary and Obama voted against.I haven’t viewed the votes in the House yet.
For the Democrats in the House who did vote for this bill I advise you to start looking for another job.
Troubled
May 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pmPersonally, we need more Ron Paul’s and Dennis Kucinich’s. These other Pro-War crackpots are oozing out of every crack imaginable.
Oh, Nancy Pelosi…You AIPAC Whore!!
May 26th, 2007 at 12:10 am# 146,
I was not supporting the Secretary of Defense, I simply remembered his comments and I thought what a contrast between 2002 and 2007.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:25 pmAmerica is now laboring under a DOUBLE STANDARD for impeachment of a President.
How can Republican congressmen look America in the eye after voting to impeach based upon a personal activity and ignoring impeachment for a Culture of Corruption of its own party.
The website ImpeachBush.org has a list of 20 reasons to impeach the Bush team.
And all are serious acts. If the Congress is not motivated to act, who will act? Whose job is it to protect America’s Constitution (did someone call the Constitution just a piece of paper?)?
The protector of the Constitution should be someone who holds the Country in high esteem. Someone who knows that the Country is the host – for both parties and it is not the other way around. It should be someone who does not see the country as a perfect TOOL to enrich themselves.
The electorate is the final protector of the Constitution. When politicians, for whatever reason cannot get motivated to do their job, then it falls to the electorate to step-in and make the necessary changes to the political roster. The political roster is in dire need of adjustment!
May 26th, 2007 at 10:26 pmHow can a Congress where the Democrats have a simple majority do things that requires more than a simple majority?
Democrats would need help from Republicans. And Republicans don’t seem to have the same feeling for the Country as they do for each other. We saw that back in late 2004 when the House Ethics Committee refused to investigate Mr. Tom DeLay.
The only way the Country could get “neck deep” in corruption is with the Republicans “working together” in defense of each other. And there seems to be no ethical guidance coming from the Bush team. We saw that during the investigation into who outted Valerie Plame.
By now it is obvious to some that it’s important to Mr. Bush to maintain a “stiff back” no matter how bad the conditions. Bad conditions have prevailed in Iraq for years – but the Bush team still advocates “stay the course”.
The Red Cross and the United Nations speak of Iraqi refugees in the thousands seeking to leave Iraq. Some news accounts have put the numbers equal to the numbers of that 1948 exodus.
But the Bush team is MUM. And America is likely unaware of a serious refugee problem because mainstream news sources have, by and large, also been MUM. It is unlikely that news sources will get a “TELL AMERICA” cue from the Bush team.
The new Congress has put the breaks on an Old Congress that was this/close to the Bush team. And the Old Congress appeared to have “no shame” while re-fixing laws that did not reflect the President’s behavior. The “stench” of the Old Congress is “in retreat”. And that is good. So, the concept of three separate branches of the U.S. Government is again visible.
Congress is now “working good” but no way can it fix everything the Bush team has broken in such a short time.
May 28th, 2007 at 6:32 am