Experts Charge Bush Ignored Contradictory Intelligence Reports In Coast Guard Speech
Experts Charge Bush Ignored Contradictory Intelligence Reports In Coast Guard Speech
In his commencement speech at the Coast Guard Academy this week, President Bush discussed “2-year-old information, declassified by the White House a day earlier,” which asserted that Osama bin Laden had instructed al Qaeda in Iraq to attack the United States. Using the intel to stoke fears of terrorism, Bush argued for the continuation of his stay-the-course policy in Iraq, claiming “Al Qaeda’s leaders inside and outside of Iraq have not given up on their objective of attacking America again.”
As ThinkProgress noted, President Bush has a history of selectively declassifying intelligence that works to his political advantage. Counterterrorism experts now tell Newsweek that “the president’s characterization of the intelligence may have been incomplete” and that he appears to have “ignored contradictory reporting about what actually happened.”
Here are a few examples of Bush’s “incomplete” intelligence:
1) BUSH MYTH: Zarqawi was a top al Qaeda operative before the war. A Senate Intelligence Committee report published last September said that the CIA learned “‘from a senior Al Qaeda detainee’ that before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi had actually ‘rebuffed several efforts by bin Laden’ to recruit Zaqawi to work with Al Qaeda.” But in reality, it was only “after the U.S. invasion of Iraq that Zarqawi permanently set up operations inside the country and then formed much closer ties between his Iraqi insurgent organization and the central leadership of Al Qaeda.”
2) BUSH MYTH: Zarqawi “welcomed” bin Laden’s orders. “A U.S. counterterrorism official familiar with the original intelligence told Newsweek that some of the intel showed that Zarqawi actually resisted bin Laden’s instructions at the time, sending word back to the Al Qaeda leader that he had his hands full orchestrating attacks against U.S. forces inside Iraq.”
3) BUSH MYTH: Bin Laden wants to use Iraq to launch attacks against the West. Rand Beers, a former national-security aide who served under both Clinton and Bush, pointed out that “most of the recent intelligence reporting on terror plots aimed at the U.S. shows that the plans were hatched in Pakistan, not Iraq, and were initiated during the same time frame (in 2005) that bin Laden was ordering Zarqawi to open up a cell.”
Once again, President Bush has been caught fixing intelligence around his policies instead of shaping his policies around intelligence.
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Well, it should be more than obvious by now that Bush and intelligence just don’t mix, ya know, like oil and water, or oil and blood, for that mtter.
It’s hard to fault Bush for not doing something he’s incapable of doing - ACTING INTELLIGENTLY.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:54 amAs ThinkProgress noted, President Bush has a history of selectively declassifying intelligence that works to his political advantage.
ThinkProgress has a history of selectively posting information that works for its political advantage.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:55 amBUSH: I’m credible because I read the intelligence, David.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:56 amBush has to lie to cover up previous lies. He is on a lifelong treadmill of lying.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:58 amBTW, Captain Mantastic, Fire Island is the other direction.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:58 amBush has alot of nerve even mentioning Osama’s name. It’s shocking he would speak so candidly about a terrorist he has chosen not to catch.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:02 amIssa, in the Goodling hearing, repeated yet again the baldfaced outright lie that Americans ever elected Cheney and Bush at all to begin with. The people of the United States did not elect Cheney or Bush in 2000, or in 2004. Therefore, we have been living under a completely illegal U.S. coup d’etat since Inauguration Day 2001.
Here is an incomplete but nevertheless very long list of current GOP indictments, investigations, trials, and sentencing in virtually every American state.
Here is the truth not only about Karl Rove and Tim Griffin’s theft of our 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, but also their already emplaced attempts to steal our Free and Fair American Presidential and other elections yet again in 2008.
Immediate dual Impeachment is the only remaining means America has to defend our U.S. Constitution, Republic and Democracy from complete destruction by the profoundly criminal, illegal, amoral and detestable globalist corporatist banking military industrial petrochemical agribusiness GMO eugenics nuclear surveillance prison mind control microchip mass dental brain implant mind scanner directed energy weapons media crime complex which Cheney, Bush and the rest of their tiny minority of enablers have at least since 1750 deliberately and traitorously served, supressing and abusing the existence and development of numerous highly advanced technologies, for the premeditated purpose of enslaving and extracting obscenely outrageous and unethical profits from the suffering, labor and blood of the vast majority. Freedom, directly contrary to the mindless sloganeering toxic waste incessantly repeated in our formerly Free but now entirely deregulated corporate propaganda machine Press, is in fact free. Genuinely free freedom has been stolen, appropriated and arrogated by and to a tiny minority at the direct expense of all others. Cheney, along with Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, Gonzales, Ashcroft, Wofowitz and others must now be both Impeached by the American people, and brought to International justice for numerous crimes against Humanity. Their globalist corporatist masters must also be held accountable and brought to justice. Neither Americans nor any other free peoples can or will abide nor tolerate tyranny, despotism, dictatorship or oppression.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:04 amIssa, in the Goodling hearing, repeated yet again the baldfaced outright lie that Americans ever elected Cheney and Bush at all to begin with. The people of the United States did not elect Cheney or Bush in 2000, or in 2004. Therefore, we have been living under a completely illegal U.S. coup d’etat since Inauguration Day 2001.
Here is an incomplete but nevertheless very long list of current GOP indictments, investigations, trials, and sentencing in virtually every American state.
Here is the truth not only about Karl Rove and Tim Griffin’s theft of our 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, but also their already emplaced attempts to steal our Free and Fair American Presidential and other elections yet again in 2008.
Immediate dual Impeachment is the only remaining means America has to defend our U.S. Constitution, Republic and Democracy from complete destruction by the profoundly criminal, illegal, amoral and detestable globalist corporatist banking military industrial petrochemical agribusiness GMO eugenics nuclear surveillance prison mind control microchip mass dental brain implant mind scanner directed energy weapons media crime complex which Cheney, Bush and the rest of their tiny minority of enablers have at least since 1750 deliberately and traitorously served, supressing and abusing the existence and development of numerous highly advanced technologies, for the premeditated purpose of enslaving and extracting obscenely outrageous and unethical profits from the suffering, labor and blood of the vast majority. Freedom, directly contrary to the mindless sloganeering toxic waste incessantly repeated in our formerly Free but now entirely deregulated corporate propaganda machine Press, is in fact free. Genuinely free freedom has been stolen, appropriated and arrogated by and to a tiny minority at the direct expense of all others. Cheney, along with Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, Gonzales, Ashcroft, Wofowitz and others must now be both Impeached by the American people, and brought to International justice for numerous crimes against Humanity. Their globalist corporatist masters must also be held accountable and brought to justice. Neither Americans nor any other free peoples can or will abide nor tolerate tyranny, despotism, dictatorship or oppression.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:05 amLISTEN DUDE, THIS PREZ
HAS FRIGGIN BABBLED ON
EVERY
FRIGGIN
DAY DUDE FOR FRIGGIN 6 FRIGGIN YEARS ALL ABOUT WARLORD DUDE
THAT’S THE ONLY THING HE BABBLES ON ABOUT
ACCOMPBLISHED NOTHING WHATSOEVER DUDE OF COURSE OTHER
THAN TELLING YOU SOCIAL SECURITY IS A BUNCH OF EMPTY IOU’S
NOW JUST TELL ME WHAT HAS BUSH DONE FOR YOU LATELY? S****D
YOU AND YOUR LOVE ONES? PUT US INTO DEBT FOR ETERNITY DUDE?
NOW LISTEN AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED THE COUNTRY IS TOTALLY SOLD
OUT DUDE, CONGRESS HAS SWINDLED US, AGAIN ALL THE PROMISES
MADE HAVE BEEN BROKEN, THEY CAN’T DO ANYTHING, THEY WON’T DO
ANYTHING, 80% BELIEVE THE COUNTRY IS HEADED IN THE WRONG
DIRECTION DUDE, FAR FAR SUPERIOR AT MCDONALD’S FOR US, WHILE
LEGAL BRIBERY CONTINUES AND THEY GET RICH RICH RICH AND WE GET
POOR POOR POOR
JIMBO DUDE ALWAYS SPEAKS THE TRUTH
WE START BY ROUNDING UP ALL THE FRIGGIN POLITICAL LIARS AND THROW
THEM IN THE FRIGGIN SLAMMER, WE TAKE THOSE WHO SOLICIT BRIBES
AND THROW THEM IN THE SLAMMER, WE TAKE THOSE WHO PANTS ARE
OBVIOUSLY FROM LYING AND THROW THEM IN THE SLAMMER, WE START
FROM THE HIGHEST HOUSE OF THE LAND ACCORDING TO CREW AND
THROW FRIGGIN EVERY ONE OF THEM DUDE IN THE SLAMMER, WORK
DOWN TO THE SENATE/CONGRESS AND THROW BRIBERS/LIERS IN THE
FRIGGIN SLAMMER, WE GO TO K STREET AND THROW THEM IN THE SLAMMER DUDE
now enough of the dreaming dude how to get that approval rating at
least to a minimal c grade to but that ain’t going to happen dude….
washington is totally friggin bought and and totally corrupted dude
how did this country ever get in such a sorry state dude where the highest house of the land is corrupted, doj is a bunch of fast, smooth, shifty eyed
mess, defense totally corrupted infact, all of it, a friggin mess dude.
washington dude is totally bought out dude and totally corrupted dude,
May 26th, 2007 at 11:06 amliterally a friggin mess dude and we can’t do anything dude but get
superior friggin service at mcdonald’s dude :)
The King is a liar.
Imagine that….
May 26th, 2007 at 11:09 amCan we xnay the onglay eirdway ostspay? And ickstay to the opictay?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:11 amand yes dude…………. jimbo dude TOTALLY has a grip on everything…
Jimbo dude does not down nothin related to totally corrupt prohibition nor does jimbo dude smoke up anything
jimbo dude ALWAYS SPEAKS THE TRUTH DUDE
ROCK SOLID INTEGRITY DUDE
and what i’m saying………. dude
WE ALL OF US DUDE
GET FAR FAR SUPERIOR SERVICE AT MCDONALD’S DUDE
AND THE GREASE PITS MAY EXPLAIN THE 28% APPROVAL RATING DUDE
PEOPLE…. THAT IS FRIGGIN DOUBLE F’S AT THE BEST (60 DIVIDED 2 = )
NOW FROM SUCH A HIGH CLASS SETTING WHERE EVERYTHING IS JUST
SO PERFECT WE EXPECT GRADE A SERVICE AND WHAT DO WE FRIGGIN
GET DUDE……………
A+ = MCDONALD’S
F X 2 = PREZ/SENATE/CONGRESS
WE
May 26th, 2007 at 11:14 amGET
THE
FRIGGIN
GREASE
PITS DUDE, GREASE PITS
Yeah, and ixnay the oldbay ontfay. :D
May 26th, 2007 at 11:16 amBush is NOT intelligent, and even believes his own fabricated lies, so he twists intelligence information to suit his political needs. Dubya must be impeached or forced to resign > PERIOD.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:16 amDoes this mean Bush lied?? OMG. Perish the thought. He’s a compassionately conservative family values kinda guy restoring honor and dignity to the White House. He’s a god-fearing “christian”. How on earth could someone with those credentials lie? And to an entire nation? This must be another example of the liberal media working to discredit our leader. I think actually it was Bill Clinton who lied. Bush couldn’t. He’s to holy…..as in holy Cheney….how can this guy sleep at night?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:16 amOnly with a sophisticated propaganda machine [Fox News] could a country still see a liar like Bush still maintain a 28% following.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:18 amLISTEN DUDE
WHAT I’M SAYING DUDE IS WASHINGTON IS TOTALLY BOUGHT OUT
BUT ITS SUPPOSE TO BE OWNED BY WE THE PEOPLE DUDE
CONGRESS LIED, SHIFTY EYED FAST SMOOTH TALKING SWINDLERS
DUDE, THEY DID NOT KEEP ANY, NOT ONE SINGLE PROMISE TO THE
PEOPLE
MOST ACCOUNTABLE CONGRESS EVER TO THE PEOPLE
AND LIARS WHO SWINDLE SHOULD GO TO THE FRIGGIN SLAMMER DUDE
WAR CRIMINALS WHO VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTION IMMEDIATELY TO
THE FRIGGIN SLAMMER
AGAIN DUDE, IT’S NICE TO DREAM EVERYTHING WILL BE PERFECT, BUT
OBVIOUSLY NONE OF WHAT I STATED WILL EVER HAPPEN……..
WASHINGTON IS TOTALLY SOLD OUT, CORRUPTED AND I STAND STRONG
IF YOU WANT SUPERIOR A+ SERVICE GO TO FRIGGIN MCDONALDS
IF YOU WANT CORRUPTION, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS LOOK AT WASHINGTON, INFACT THIS FRIGGIN CORRUPTION DUDE IS EVERYWHERE
May 26th, 2007 at 11:24 amDUDE… IT’S TOTALLY BOUGHT OUT DUDE, TOTALLY FRIGGIN CORRUPTED DUDE
ollay!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:26 amActually there is NO international alliance/brotherhood of terrorists called Al Qaeda. That term was made up in the late 1990s by the CIA. Osama himself was trained CIA operative who was paid to fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. He is a bogeyman being used to justify massive outlays of funding for our bloated Pentagon/military-establishment. Americans are being conned by the Bush Regime and the Congress has been castrated.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:27 am#19
now listen dude, jimbo dude
ALWAYS SPEAKS THE TRUTH dude
ROCK SOLID INTEGRITY dude
that’s jimbo dude all right
IF THERE IS NO FRIGGIN AL QAEDA DUDE
FOR WHAT 6 - 7 YEARS THAT’S ALL BUSH/CHENEY BABBLE ABOUT
FRIGGIN EVER SINGLE FRIGGIN DAY DUDE
ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT’S ALL LIES DUDE AND SNAKE OIL DUDE???
May 26th, 2007 at 11:31 amOkay Jay Randal it’s time to go somewhere else, bud. Zawahiri and Osama are real people.
In some bizarro world if what you say is true we can atleast question the strategies to catch these bogeymen.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:32 amI see little to worry about if the Al Qaeda leaders have as much trouble finding American Leaders and points to attack as the Bushco has had in finding and attacking Al Qaeda leaders and strongholds.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:38 am““most of the recent intelligence reporting on terror plots aimed at the U.S. shows that the plans were hatched in Pakistan, not Iraq,”
Pakistan, the country we are giving a billion dollars a year to. And why are we doing that? Because we say that Pakistan is helping us fight the war on terror. I’m sorry, but I don’t think that harboring Bin Laden is “helping us fight the war on terror”.
Bush world = Bizzaro world.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:39 amLOL LandSurveyor > Bush never intends to catch his concocted bogeyman Osama bin Laden. As for leaving: this is a progressive anti-Bush blog, so you need to go to redstate.com since you are a Bush supporter. Bye guy.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:39 amThinkProgress has a history of selectively posting information that works for its political advantage.
Comment by CaptainMantastic —
Aaa….Yeaaa. This was a Political blog the last time I looked? Hey everyone. Is this still a political blog? Isn’t ths that place where people go to blog about politics? CaptainMantastic said it’s something else now. Did TP change last night?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:41 amWell I was going to post something insightful, but dude, Jimbo dude like, totally blew my mind, dude, and my train of thought, dude. Dude, let’s see if I can get it back………dude.
Ugh. Okay, anyway, what I find interesting is that regardless of Bush’s BS propaganda bit here, it serves him no good to depict al Qaeda operations in Iraq as a means to stay his current course whatsoever. Because both the Democratic plan AND the Iraq Study Group plan both call for special force operations to go after al Qaeda cells in Iraq COUPLED with phased redeployment (and increased efforts to diplomacy, of course).
It’s a silly straw man argument that bolsters no point for Bush and his chickenhawk war supporters.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:42 amThinkProgress selectively posts information that paints the war effort (and the reasons to go to war) in the worse possible light. TP does this intentionally in the hopes of generating support to bring the troops home (in support of the progressive agenda). Is their one-sided potrayal of the situation a lie. If/when we do pull the troops out prematurely, will TP bear any of the responsibility for the all out civil war, genocide and fundamentalist theocracy that will result from the vacuum of our premature troop withdrawl?
If you feel TP has no responsibility for what happens, but is free to attempt to sway events as it pleases; what a blissfully uncomplicated world you live in. Maybe we are not ready for a Democratic president, frankly I haven’t seen one that understands the meaning of responsibility.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:44 amNo Jay I’m not a Bush supporter and you sound paranoid. And again, if the bogeyman is concocted we can critique his attempts at “finding the real killer”, so to speak.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:45 amWho keeps YELLING my name ?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:45 amLandSurveyor sez:
Jay isn’t questioning the existence of Osama and Zawahiri, LS. Are you questioning the role the CIA had in recruiting and training Osama, and forming what came to be known as “Al Qaeda”?
Also, your statement isn’t quite correct. Osama was a real person, but he died in 2001. Every “communication” from Osama since that time, starting with the infamous “Fatty bin Laden” confession video, is an obvious fake.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:50 amOK, He has been called on his BULLSH*T…. What are WE going to do about this?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:53 amLOL Bush is the king of paranoia LandSurveyor. Nice touch to say you do not support Bush, but then you defend him in your posts. Nobody has seen Osama in 3 years anywhere. In fact Pakistan claims he died of kidney failure and was buried in an unmarked grave in secret location. He is needed nonetheless as a bogeyman, and kind of impossible to nab him if he is already dead and buried. As for Zarqawi he is dead too.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:55 amAl Qaeda WANTS us to STAY in Iraq. Is this a case of Brer’ Rabbit wanting to be thrown in the Briar patch…I don’t think so. 4 years and half a trillion $$$ has resulted in a country where flack jackets are necessary to go shopping, and the Government can’t agree on anything significant. Al Qaeda has set up shop in the wild west of Pakistan, and is having no problems planning their evil deeds. Support for Al Qaeda has Grown among Arabs since we Invaded Iraq.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:05 pmThinkProgress selectively blahblahblahblahblah…. — CaptainMantastic
ThinkProgress posts facts. I am sorry you have such a hard time adjusting when facts intrude on the fantastical neocon wet dream you live in.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:06 pmCaptainMantastic writes:
Excuse me, captain, but could you help me out here? Given the fact that hardly any predictions made by this Administration and its supporters have come to fruition about this war in Iraq, why the hell do you think you have an ounce of credibility to make any predictions about the situation in the future? Given your support to the group that’s been wrong on almost all accounts with this war, what on earth should compel anyone to start believing your predictions now?
Furthermore, do you think it’s okay for Bush to call for a timetable of withdrawal against Clinton back in 1999?
What compels you to think anyone should believe your predictions, given your track record? Could the thought possibly enter your mind that our presence there is part of the problem and NOT the solution?
And what part of the Iraq Study Group’s plan is unclear to you that the Dems. support, especially the part pertaining to going after al Qaeda cells and increasing the training of Iraqi police so they can learn to fight for themselves?
May 26th, 2007 at 12:08 pmThe concocted videos of Osama’s supposed number 2 man with a bookcase behind him and track lights overhead is very amusing since he is supposed to live in a cave > lol.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:09 pmCaptainMantastic sez:
That’s the light of Truth, CM, which, I agree, is the worst possible light for this corrupt and criminal administration. Sorry it burns so…
Agreed. The progressive agenda of attempting to stop the tidal wave of death in the Middle East, bringing home out brave men and women while some of them are still alive, and holding this criminal junta which has hijacked our nation accountable for their heinous crimes, is rather insidious, isn’t it? I mean, how dare these “progressives” attempt to thwart the twisted will of our Boy King??? The insolence! The audacity!
Is this a question, or a statement? Either way, would you care to demonstrate these alleged falsehoods?
And here we have the neocon shill ploy of attempting to shift responsibility for this ill-advised invasion and occupation elsewhere…anywhere else but where it belongs.
Every day we continue our occupation, more American soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians die. You carp about “pulling the troops out prematurely”, but you can’t tell us when such a withdrawal won’t be “premature”.
Here’s why: there’s only one way the occupation can end, and that’s with our withdrawal. A war can be “won”…an occupation cannot. In light of this, your question is meaningless, and only serves to try to deflect responsibility.
There’s more to your post, but seeing as how it’s just more of your blame-shifting twaddle based upon your faulty premise of “premature withdrawal”, there’s no point in addressing it further.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:12 pmComment by CaptainMantastic
TP reports the worst of the truth that they can find. The purpose being to counter balance the natural desire to pretend like ‘everything is going just swimingly’ … the truth can hurt … but that doesnt change the fact that it is part of the truth also…
I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.
– Harry Truman
May 26th, 2007 at 12:13 pmHate to copy and paste, but heres an article this AM on msnbc.
BAGHDAD - Months before the invasion of Iraq, U.S. intelligence agencies predicted that it would be likely to spark violent sectarian divides and provide al-Qaeda with new opportunities in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to a report released Friday by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Analysts warned that war in Iraq also could provoke Iran to assert its regional influence and “probably would result in a surge of political Islam and increased funding for terrorist groups” in the Muslim world.
The intelligence assessments, made in January 2003 and widely circulated within the Bush administration before the war, said that establishing democracy in Iraq would be “a long, difficult and probably turbulent challenge.” The assessments noted that Iraqi political culture was “largely bereft of the social underpinnings” to support democratic development.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18873612/
So they were warned, months ahead of what was very possible, and decided to follow the most reckless, irresponsible and reprehensible path possible.
Who could have predicted this? Anybody that knows the chymps messianic personality disorder.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:15 pmActually there is NO international alliance/brotherhood of terrorists called Al Qaeda. — Jay Randal
Sure there is.
We helped create and train “The Base”.
We inflamed and propped up the islamic fundamentalists that became Al Qaeda to oppose Russian intervention in Afganistan.
We created the organization that later turned on US.
Just one more reason for us to stop meddling in the internal affairs of other countries. We always create our own future problems with our meddling.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:15 pmliving in southeastern connecticut, home of the coast guard academy, i can say bush was NOT welcome in this neck of the woods as the nearly 1000 protestors outside the gates of the coast guard academy can attest. whereas those who were protesting in support of dummyas policies was numbered at under 20, apparently they were hostile and violent towards the other 980 who were against bush.(check out the new london day online for complete coverage) like true bushzombies, these idiots couldn’t figure out it’s not a great idea to provoke people when you’re outnumbered nearly 50 to one. the truly funny thing is, science professors from both the university of connecticut and connecticut college were there protesting against dummya, and his loyalist were screaming about them being “scumbags”. should give you insight in terms of the intellectual level of the remaining bushzombies.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:17 pmWayne > CIA named the group they created Al Qaeda. Same as the fictional doctor who created a monster called Frankenstein. CIA used their creation to force the Russians out of Afghanistan, but later needed them to be bogeyman organization to prop up the Bush Regime.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:25 pmRand Beers??? You mean the national security advsier to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign? THAT Rand Beerss?
Yeah…He’s an unbiased source.
Heh. Full disclosure next time, TP. This time, you’re busted.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:28 pmWelcome back Clyde, I missed you, hope you are doing well…
Good Morning Lady Z and all, busy here, not going to surf much…Ixnay onthey oltrey’s….Esblessingley uta allthey..
May 26th, 2007 at 12:29 pmGiven the fact that hardly any predictions made by this Administration and its supporters have come to fruition about this war in Iraq, why the hell do you think you have an ounce of credibility to make any predictions about the situation in the future?
Maybe if you get all you news at ThinkProgress, you believe that.
Here’s a few predictions.
Bush administration predicted we would win the major combat; we did.
Bush admin predicted we would get Saddam; we did.
Bush admin predicted free elections for the people of Iraq; it happened.
Bush admin predicted an Iraqi constitution; it happened.
The Bush administration is proposing that if we are resolute enough to stay the course and continue to support a free government of Iraq it will happen.
You love freedom. Put aside your political pride and let the Iraqis have it, too.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:29 pmExley sez:
Can you dispute Beers’ claims, or is your argument limited to impugning his credibility?
May 26th, 2007 at 12:32 pmDUDE…………..
I SAYING WE ARE DEALING WITH SWINDLERS DUDE……..
HOODLUMS I SAY DUDE HOODLUMS
highest house of the land
totally corrupt
when it’s suppose to be the utmost integrity
senate/congress
totally corrupt and friggin totally bought out dude
dept of justice
fast, smooth talking shifty eyes shisters
k street
a totally corrupt swindling/bribery ring
TOTALLY FRIGGIN BOUGHT OUT AND CORRUPT DUDE
and the only friggin service we get is
prez/vice prez babble on EVERY FRIGGIN DAY DUDE
about the big bad terrorist
in a complete cesspool of complete political hoodlums, swindlers,
shisters full of maggots, ticks, roaches, beetles, roaches, rats,
scumbags………
throw friggin every single one of the in the friggin SLAMMER dude
May 26th, 2007 at 12:34 pmTPM,
The criticism contained in my posting #43 was mostly directed at ThinkProgress for its dishonest omission of Beers’ involvement in the Kerry presidential campaign. TP comes across as disingenuous and foolish when they purposely omit relevant information.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:39 pmHeh. Full disclosure next time, TP. This time, you’re busted.
Comment by Exley —
Why does the fact that Beers worked for the Kerry campaign invalidate his views?
Rand Beers is a former American counterterrorism adviser who served on the National Security Council under U.S. Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. He also served as Assistant Secretary of State for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs under both President Clinton and President George W. Bush. Beers resigned in protest from the NSC in March 2003, five days before commencement of the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
After leaving his NSC position, Beers joined the presidential campaign of John Kerry, serving as the National Security Advisor to the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign[2]. He teaches a seminar in collaboration with Richard A. Clarke on national security issues at the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.
Beers is a graduate of Dartmouth College, and the University of Michigan; he served in a U.S. Marine Corps rifle company in Vietnam.
Yeah, I can see where a guy who served under four presidents might be considered too highly partisan. And his Vietnam experiences as a marine would only serve to discredit his viewpoint about Bush’s wartime mistakes.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pmnow
jimbo dude only relates about
ALL MIGHTY TRUTH DUDE
ROCK SOLID INTEGRITY DUDE
that’s jimbo dude all right
rock solid integrity and rock solid truth dude
and jimbo dude stands strong
A+ service at mcdonald’s
F- & F - again for all these political shisters, hoodlums, swindlers, roaches, leeches, ticks, rats, chiggards, roaches, maggots, scumbags
IN A FRIGGIN CESSPOOL OF COMPLETE POLITICAL CORRUPTION DUDE
jimbo dude only speaks rock solid integrity and honesty DUDE :)
May 26th, 2007 at 12:45 pmThe lines were blurred long ago. Bush just loves pretending world cop and commander supreme of the universe. The world his toy and play, play, play.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pmDelusions and megalomania are end caps, bookends to his gray matter all slouched up in between. His pride and arrogance rise from the abyss. If it wasn’t so telling he’d load himself up on medals and all sorts regalia. He be an emperor all pomp and circumstance, parading the glory, relishing the praise and view from up high. His wonderland havig no borders and future enemies to slay boundless.
Exley sez:
And does Beers’ involvement in the Kerry presidential campaign change the facts he is presenting?
If so, please explain how.
If not, please explain why it’s an issue.
Failing both of these, admit that it’s irrelevant.
You come across as disingenuous and foolish when you purposely attempt to muddy the issue with irrelevant information.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pm“TP comes across as disingenuous and foolish when they purposely omit relevant information.” Comment by Exley — May 26, 2007
Isn’t that what you did by only telling half the story on Beers? He served under both republican and democratic presidents - but suddenly he’s too highly partisan for TP to reference?
May 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pmRand Beers, a former national-security aide who served under both Clinton and Bush, pointed out that “most of the recent intelligence reporting on terror plots aimed at the U.S. shows that the plans were hatched in Pakistan, not Iraq,
Exley…I don’t dispute that Mr. Beers is a partisan source. That’s not the point….were the recent intelligence reports accurate??. Are the terror plots being hatched in Iraq, with 140,000 US Troops nearby, or are they being hatched in the relative safety of Pakistan??
And by the way..I’m sceptical of any “adviser” to John Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. It was a piece of work to lose to Bush with his record.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:51 pmFor those of you with short memories, here’s the link to how the Democratic frontrunner (Hillary Clinton) felt about the war in 2003.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8
She lays out that she independantly sought intelligence on the situation (doesn’t rely solely on Bush), explains that there are (were) multiple reasons to depose Saddam (tyrant to his people, defiance of the world community, non compliance with resolutions, weapons (missles) that exceeded limits set after the gulf war, and threats of WMD - that she was aware of from her husbands administration)
She also explains, why it was important for the U.S. to act regardless of the stance of the world community.
In 5 minutes (minutes 7-12) she lays out the justification for the war, earnestly and more effectively than the Bush administration ever has.
Now the public opinion has turned, she denies her position, and decries Bush for making the very same decision she would have made given the information at the time.
Please watch it and take the time to explain her position (identical to Bush’s) and how she is now the front runner among Democrats.
P.S. Don’t take my word for it. Ask all those newly elected to congress about the need to continue to fund this effort.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pm#48, Well-done, Barfly…..See? Thanks to my correcting TP’s dishonestly incomplete description of Beers’ background, I have inspired you to do a little more research on your own. However, you should have had to do so. As I said, TP was disingenuous in omitting the relevant information.
Even the Newsweek article to which TP links references the fact that Beers is not part of a group that is highly critical of the administration. TP should learn basic tenents of journalism. Whenever you quote somebody, you cite whatever information that tends to show from what point of view the speaker may be speaking. That’s Journalism 101, folks.
May 26th, 2007 at 12:55 pmBarfly, “Isn’t that what you did by only telling half the story on Beers? He served under both republican and democratic presidents”
Nope, because TP already referenced that fact above. There was no need for me to repeat it. What TP did NOT reference is that Beers became Kerry’s campaign NSA following his service during the Bush administration and is currently part (as Newsweek reported) of a group that is critical of the administration policy. TP portrayed him as an unbiased, neutral expert. He is not. He is an expert. But he is not unbiased or neutral.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:00 pmCORRECTION: #55 should have read: “However, you should NOT have had to do so.”
May 26th, 2007 at 1:01 pmBadger,
“Are the terror plots being hatched in Iraq, with 140,000 US Troops nearby, or are they being hatched in the relative safety of Pakistan??”
I’d imagine terror plots against the U.S. are primarily being hatched in Afghanistan/Pakistan. I would think Al Qaeda terror plots hatched in Iraq are primarily those directed at innocent Iraqi men, women, and children and U.S. troops.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:04 pmBadger. You were asking about it yesterday. I’m curious if you watched the Hillary video and if you did, what did you think?
May 26th, 2007 at 1:14 pmExley, your arguement would be credible, if you were as quick to criticize the same failures to identify the biases of all sides, and, if you also posted complete information. As it is, by only posting partial, biased information, you are guilty of violating the very tenents of journalism 101 you espouse.
We would be better served if you made credible posts critiquing the message, not by making biased attacks against the messenger, but by showing, with documented facts, where the message is wrong.
Critiquing the messenger is a favorite political tactic used to deflect the message and not address the underlying truth of the message. Surely you are better than that? Or are you?
May 26th, 2007 at 1:18 pm…she lays out the justification for the war, earnestly and more effectively than the Bush administration ever has.
If Hillary is the nominee, You can be sure that this tape will be in lots of 2008 attack ads . I hope the Democrats nominate someone else, with less baggage BUT…
Bush RUSHED to war, without giving Hans Blix a chance to check things out. AND his planning was lethally Incompetent. When the Iraqi looters were dumping out Radioactive Material to steal the barrels, I knew we were in trouble. Hillary may have been wrong about WMD’s, but I doubt she’s capable of the World Class Incompetence demonstrated by Bush & Co.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:19 pmRepublicans point with pride to Abraham Lincoln, who showed them the key to winning elections: “You can fool some of the people all of the time…”
That’s all they need. As long as those fooled are the ones counting the votes and filling the ranks of the military, the rest of us don’t matter.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:20 pmThrough Ashcroft and Gonzales, Bush neutered any chance that he would be called to account for his lies. Then we have Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court, adding to the kiss- up crowd sitting there. We have inept AGs, in over 3/4 of states and no clear Democratic majority to over- ride any vetos. Where has the land of laws and consequence gone? Six years has wrought real danger to our Bill of Rights and our Constitution. Register to vote these bastards out.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:20 pmYou’re both wrong, they’re being hatched in New Jersey:
Fort Dix Terror Plot Foiled
FBI: New Jersey jihadists targeted servicemen at Army base
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/ archive/ years/ 2007/ 0508071ftdix1.html
May 26th, 2007 at 1:25 pmAnd, let’s not forget the greatest terrorist plot ever, hatched in American on Americans, by the PNAC. They were able to take out some 3,000 Americans and pin the blame on others.
(explain the cell phone calls, before you begin to disagree with my assessment.)
May 26th, 2007 at 1:27 pmCaptain continues:
That wasn’t a prediction - that was the ineviteable with a completely hapless dictator and a worthless army. Please.
And speaking of which, if that was the MAJOR combat operation, that’s a feeble attempt to soften the past 3 1/2 years of TRUE combat operation. How many have died since then, chief?
Actually Bush originally predicted we would disarm Saddam, and only when we seemingly didn’t have to disarm him from WMDs (because he had none) did Bush make that really tough prediction that we would get him. How strange you apparently forgot about that.
Yes, free elections and a constitution for a Shiite fundamentalist Islamic regime in leagues with our best buddy, Iran. A government with wonderful out of control death squads. Such a terrific prop. Good one.
Yes, because this “free” government has done such incredible wonders so far, hasn’t it chief?
I also love accountability and that darn “truthiness” thingy you seemingly love as well, such as the following predictions you apparently left out:
1. WMDs (somewhere around Tikrit, right?)
2. The war ending in weeks, not months
3. We’ll be greeted as liberators
4. The insurgency is in its “last throes”
5. The war will create peace in the region
6. The Iraqi oil will help fund the war effort
7. The war costing just $50-60 billion
And I noticed you skipped right over my question pertaining to Bush calling for a timeline on Clinton in 1999. Was that okay because, well, Bush is a Republican and Republicans can do this only?
May 26th, 2007 at 1:36 pmBadger. You can debate all day long how the war was prosecuted. What I am trying to point out, is that Bush’s view on the situation was widely held when he made his decision to go to war.
Hillary’s position at the time refutes the notion that many here have, that Bush went to war on the premise of WMDs alone and that the reason he had support (was that he doctored the intelligence and all the gullible people of the world (congress, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy,the French, the Brits, etc, etc, etc.) were all simply duped. Ironically, duped by the very man that they universally claim to be a moron.
The truth is that Bush made a rational decision with the information we had at the time.
May 26th, 2007 at 1:44 pm67 - you’ve bought the lie, and you don’t even understand the price you paid for it.
http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/
May 26th, 2007 at 1:52 pm“What I am trying to point out, is that Bush’s view on the situation was widely held when he made his decision to go to war.”
The lie was only believe by stupid and uneducated people. Which are you?
May 26th, 2007 at 1:56 pmCaptain continues:
Actually Bush had a bit more access to information than Hillary or any other person in Congress did. The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service concluded as much:
http://www.realcities.com/ mld/ krwashington/ news/ special_packages/ iraq/ intelligence/ 13416512.htm
As well as this own site that you grace our presence with:
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/11/iraq-intel/
More here as well:
http://nationaljournal.com/ about/ njweekly/ stories/ 2005/ 1122nj1.htm
You might also want to observe this counter-evidence against Bush’s claims that for some wild strange reason this Administration apparently handwaved away:
http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/intel.pdf
It’s one thing to have claims about the threats of Iraq and Saddam (to which many including Bill Clinton did over the years in the ’90’s. It’s another thing to examine the evidence with scrutiny in order to make your case for war, and completely dismiss any worthwhile evidence that counters your pre-conceived notions of a threat (as this Administration has done so incredibly well).
Hillary’s voting record with Iraq will be held accountable, and actually has been held accountable by many Democratic supporters, which is why a healthy number of individuals (such as myself) do not support her as she has steadfastly refused to recuse herself from both her vote and her prior statements.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:01 pmCaptain I don’t think you can dismiss how the War was prosecuted.
Almost everyone, myself included, thought Saddam was evil and dangerous….and wanted him and his sons Gone.
But he was NOT involved in the tragic attack on Sept. 11. If anything , he was a major force Against Islamic Fundamentalists like Bin Laden. Toppling him without a good plan for what comes next was a tragic error on Bush’s part. And toppling him without major World support ,like Papa Bush had in 1991, caused America to lose something extremely valuable…the moral highground we had after 911.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:07 pmSo I don’t believe that a decision ,even for a good end , without thinking about the full implications of that decision, is Rational. Especially a decision to go to WAR.
MisterOpus1,
You would also have to completely ignore the fact that George Bush wanted to invade Iraq before 9/11 even happened. 9/11 just gave Bush and PNAC their “new Pearl Harbor” and an excuse to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, for profit.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:12 pmI think it’s also worth remembering how we apparently took our eye off the ball on al Qaeda and bin Laden being on the run in Tora Bora, and giving that duty up to CORRUPT Afghan warlords instead while we start our “little” war that was supposed to end in weeks with the initial intent of disarming Saddam (to which the UN weapons inspectors were examining but were then told to leave by us).
May 26th, 2007 at 2:13 pmPresident Bush avoided attacking Zarqawi on three occasions before the invasion.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:19 pmAnd also don’t forget how we let all of the Saudis leave the United States on aircraft while all other aircrafts were grounded after 9/11. Most important of those being some bin Ladens that we could have questioned for the where abouts of Osama. Then there is the fact that 15 of the 19 9/11 high jackers were Saudi. Then it is the opposition AMERICANS that are called traitors for asking why.
EVIL CORRUPTION
May 26th, 2007 at 2:41 pmHow can trolls be so stupid to still support facts and reality when it comes to Dubya the biggest failure of all time? It is amazing to me that there are 13% of Americans who strongly support this failed little drunk, no matter what…then there is the other 15% that supports him somewhat…and then you have the 72% that recognizes a fool when they see one. Dubya and his crime family are all thugs and need to be removed from our White House.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:43 pmAny comment by CaptainMantastic — So how’s life in Trollville? Still posting dillussional propaganda I see? Why don’t you get a real job? Maybe like circus clown, or cherry stuffer at the Hersey’s factory. You have to earn your right to say things about TP. Don’t come trolling in here and spew what you don’t even understand. Go to FOX and whine there about propogandizing anything and everything they can get their little slimy hands on. Leave TP for the big boys and girls.
May 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pmRand Beers, Clintonista, been out of government since 2003. What does he know about current intelligence on threats emerging from Iraq? Oh, that’s right, diddly-squat. But of course a Clintonista propaganda outlet like Think Progress will “fix the facts” by not telling you that.
May 26th, 2007 at 3:16 pmMisterOpus1 - very well said - too bad the 28%ers don’t let facts get in the way of mouthing the Party Line -
“bring’m on . . . . I’ll be in Alabama . . . call me . . .”
May 26th, 2007 at 3:21 pm77. Actually, Rand Beer’s served on the NSC under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, Bill Clinton and the current Bush, but you won’t hear DreamCrusher tell you that.
May 26th, 2007 at 3:33 pmDreamCrusher? Did you get your name from a new softdrink. Maybe one that poisen’s the minds of small children, and makes adults puke violently?
A little background on Rand Beers earned a B.A. from Dartmouth College in 1964. Following graduation he served in the Marines (1964-1968), acting as Rifle Company Commander during his stint in Vietnam. After he returned from duty, Beers earned an M.A. from the University of Michigan in 1970.
“Beers entered the foreign service in 1971, working for the Department of State in the Bureau of Politico-Military Affairs, where he held a number of positions, including: deputy assistant secretary for regional affairs and export control, deputy for strategy and the operations coordinator for regional affairs and security assistance, director of the Office of Security Analysis and the Office of International Security Policy, and deputy director of the Office of Policy Analysis. He then served on the National Security Council staff in various positions, including senior director and special assistant to the President for intelligence programs.
No. You know better then him. And of course Bush knows more then this slouch.
May 26th, 2007 at 3:37 pmYeah, using the term “Clintonista” will gain you a lot of credibility.
May 26th, 2007 at 3:47 pmThe “surge” has helped the United States to achieve a historic first since the invasion and occupation of Iraq began in March, 2003 — as of today, for the first time, the United States’ military fatalities has reached triple figures (104 in April, 2007, and 101 for far this month, with five days left to go).
May 26th, 2007 at 4:31 pmTo the trolls…who needs intelligence when you have the decider?
May 26th, 2007 at 4:46 pmThe commander guy doesn’t use intelligence…he is the decider!
May 26th, 2007 at 4:49 pmJTitor,
Actually, Rand Beer’s served on the NSC under Presidents Ronald Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, Bill Clinton and the current Bush, but you won’t hear DreamCrusher tell you that.
And that helps him know current intelligence 4 years after he quit the government…. how?
Spudge,
OK, what would you like me to call Clinton’s sycophants, many of which were in his administration?
May 26th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by DreamCrusher — First off the Clinton administration official that came out was Steven Simon. Second, the letter that tie all this together is not new NEWS? You need to actually read the article. You want to make it sound like some pissed off liberals against the Bush administration are attacking his intelligence debriefing. When in fact the Senate committee report said that Saddam didn’t know that Zarqawi was in Baghdad for medical treatment; at one point, the report said, Saddam’s intelligence service actually formed a “special committee” to try to track down and apprehend Zarqawi. But Bush didn’t mention that?
May 26th, 2007 at 7:26 pmFor our beloved Trolls: Hundreds boo former Bush chief of staff at University of Massachusetts commencement ceremony:
http://rawstory.com/ news/ 2007/ Hundreds_boo_former_Bush_Chief_of_0526.html
May 26th, 2007 at 8:52 pmIt is amazing how our commander guy comes in and out of consciousness, first he’s telling bin Laden to bring it on, then he’s not very concerned about him, and now he is all full of accusations of his misdeeds in Iraq. One can plainly see the one-dimensional world in which Mr. Bush lives.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:38 pm#66 MisterOpus
May 29th, 2007 at 11:47 am“Yes, free elections and a constitution for a Shiite fundamentalist Islamic regime in leagues with our best buddy, Iran. A government with wonderful out of control death squads. Such a terrific prop. Good one.”
As opposed to having a Sunni minority government supportd by our best buddies the Saudis. and supporting the fortunes of the oilies?