Bush’s draft dodge.
Bush’s draft dodge.
Center for American Progress senior fellow Lawrence Korb and research associate Max Bergmann write in today’s Los Angeles Times that if Bush wants to maintain his escalation, he should call for reinstating the draft:
That would be the responsible path. Yet the president will never call for the draft. He knows the country would never support the level of sacrifice for this war that implementing a draft would demand. But this is one of the very reasons why the all-volunteer Army was designed the way it was — to prevent a commander in chief from fighting a war that lacks the support of the public.
[...]
If the president is committed to fighting the war in Iraq over the long term, instead of simply running out the clock on his presidency, he should have the courage of his convictions and call for reinstating the draft. If not, the only responsible course is to set a timetable to bring the troops home.
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Never happen.
If Chimpy reinstates the draft, we’ll see a level of political unrest and civil disobedience in this country that will make the 60s look like a sewing circle.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:32 pm#1 And thats what its going to take to get this stupid war for oil to come to an end. But you are right. It wont happen.
Can you imagine Bush pushing for that. Looking the American people in the eye and telling them that we have to reinstate something that he dodged by having daddy get him in the guard?? I find it amazing that all of the military supporters of this little gutter snipe haven’t come unglued with him for blowing off his guard responsibliites and then never having spent a second in jail for doing it.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmIf we paid our troops the same as we paid our mercenaries, there wouldn’t be a need for a draft.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:35 pmThis limerick came to me on the way home from a wine tasting. If you don’t like it, I can always act like a good Repub and blame the liquor.
The big news scoop
May 26th, 2007 at 8:41 pmconcerns little sparrow poop.
On the suit sleeve
Of a president whose war we’re to believe.
But I’m not such a dupe.
Nothing will change with the draft. Cheney will have a Dept. set up to teach all friends and GOP supporters to use his famous 5 deferment rule.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:41 pmThe Bush Administration will set up a draft for all those who don’t follow Bush the Dictator as noted in employment. Monica spilled the beans and let americans know if your not Republican and Christian you don’t get a job.
If your Republican but follow God’s law your not getting a job. Bush was drunk and a coward so that might qualify as a reason for not serving the US if your rich. Notice how the GOP hired illegal immigrants but yell about wanting them out of the US. When the United States is lead by a President who was drunk/coward and his Daddy got him out and then by a Vice President who got the famous 5 deferments and used his wife just to get out of serving in the military you see the results. Eight soldiers died today and nothing is done to stop more from dying. Americans are now just as much the blame as Bush for the death of our troops. We knew that our troops would be setting ducks and killed in larger numbers with the Bush plan. Now we see that is happening and still Bush says stay the course. Al Sadr is now getting ready to lead Iraq as he has visited other Middle Eastern countries for support. Al Sadr will replace Saddam good or bad that’s what will happen. Maliki didn’t follow Bush’s orders and the Iraq people wont let Bush appoint his own choice for Iraq President. The overseas media will keep the world up dated on what and when this will happen.
I applaud the LA Times, but what of our other national impact papers?
May 26th, 2007 at 8:48 pmThe all-volunteer army was chiefly conceived as a defensive army or one that could be deployed as a “spot force” to achieve an objective and then be withdrawn. The first Iraq war demonstrated the strengths as well as the limits of such an army. It was, at any rate, deployed successfully there, although some might debate that. The problem now is that this concept of an army has been used for a long-term conflict, despite its inherent limitations. One might say that you simply can’t use this sort of army to build and maintain an empire.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:53 pmLora; cute (:-D) DRAFT THE BUSH TWINS FIRST! CHENEY & KRISTOL KIDS TO FOLLOW.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmYeah. Korb and company had to do something to stifle the truth in Iraq. As retired 4-star general General Zinni put it:
Oy. Basically everyone who is in Iraq, the soldiers, the Iraqis (civilians and politicians), and experts outside and in the US all say the same thing: leaving now would be disastrous.
Can you deal with reality, Think Progress Mob?
May 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmi wouldn’t hold my breath. well…if i did, i’d die. like within two or three minutes. i’m just saying.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:54 pmalso…didn’t mike wallace loose his job over this bullshit…like three years ago?
May 26th, 2007 at 8:57 pmOK guys, I’m gonna call it a night and grab a bite. Adios muchachos.
May 26th, 2007 at 8:59 pmOK guys, I’m gonna call it a night and grab a bite. Adios muchachos.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Buenos nachos, Uncle Ho
May 26th, 2007 at 9:03 pmGoodnight, Uncle Ho.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:07 pmThe King will call for a draft.
He has a turd…..er, legacy to polish.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:08 pmwe’re not leaving anytime soon – What Congress Really Approved in the Iraq war spending bill
Ann Wright served 29 years in the US Army and US Army Reserves and retired as a colonel. She served 16 years in the US diplomatic corps in Nicaragua, Grenada, Somalia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Micronesia and Mongolia. She resigned from the US Department of State in March, 2003 in opposition to the war on Iraq.
What Congress Really Approved: Benchmark No. 1: Privatizing Iraq’s Oil for US Companies
May 26th, 2007 at 9:08 pmBy Ann Wright
The Bush/Cheney Dictatorship Strategy:
May 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pm1.) Decimate the military.
2.) Hire paid mercenaries for both foreign and domestic purposes– preferably from other countries.
3.) Declare Martial Law.
I wouldn’t think he’d be in office long enough to do such a thing. If he had four more years, I could see it.
Oy. Basically everyone who is in Iraq, the soldiers, the Iraqis (civilians and politicians), and experts outside and in the US all say the same thing: leaving now would be disastrous.
Can you deal with reality, Think Progress Mob?
Comment by DreamCrusher
Your reality is fantasy
The Iraqi lawmakers passed a bill asking for withdrawal already.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:15 pmyou are wrong again…..
A draft would not be the “responsible path.”
The draft should never be reinstated. It forces citizens into military servitude against their will. Unlike Charles Rangel, I don’t want to send more innocent people to die to score political points by anticipating the public backlash.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:19 pm#14 – Oh shit!
The King will [never] call for a draft.
Sorry.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:20 pmNo, he won’t reinstate the draft, but if Congress REALLY wants to get the attention of the American people, pass law to roll back bush’s tax cuts to pay for the war.
The only way to get the attention of the American people AND get them to take action is to hit them in a way they’ll recognize and feel.
The draft would do that, but tax “increase” aka roll back of cuts would do it quickly and efficiently.
PEACE
May 26th, 2007 at 9:23 pmFor a new progressive approach to national service, see:
May 26th, 2007 at 9:24 pm“Getting Drafty: The Hybrid Model of National Service.”
Oh, before I forget, Hi Zooey.
One non-stop alley fight w/ the trolls on TP today, huh?
May 26th, 2007 at 9:27 pm#14 – Oh shit!
The King will [never] call for a draft.
Sorry.
Comment by Zooey — May 26, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
whew!
May 26th, 2007 at 9:29 pmOh, before I forget, Hi Zooey.
One non-stop alley fight w/ the trolls on TP today, huh?
Comment by the republic of stupidity
Hi ros. :)
The trolls are on crack today. Lordy.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:31 pmwhew!
Comment by katy
I hate when I do that. :}
May 26th, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Matt Bors
Thank you, Matt. I couldn’t have said it better.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:35 pmLora; cute (:-D) DRAFT THE BUSH TWINS FIRST! CHENEY & KRISTOL KIDS TO FOLLOW.
Comment by Uncle Ho
Thanks, Ho. I agree about drafting the Bush brats and Kristol kids. But I suppose the Cheney daughters will have the motherhood excuse. Still, in addition to the Bush twins, there are all their cousins who should be in Iraq or Afghanistan, along with Romney’s sons.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:35 pm“If the president is committed to fighting the war in Iraq over the long term, instead of simply running out the clock on his presidency, he should have the courage of his convictions and call for reinstating the draft”
I know it’s hard for you liberals to see past tomorrow but this has nothing to do with Iraq! It is a war against muslims who want to kill us. It could have been Syria, Iran, or any other country in that region. In this case Iraq was the option because of your beloved UN’s resolutions.
“the only responsible course is to set a timetable to bring the troops home”
Signaling to the terrorist what our plans are? Sometimes I wonder just who’s side you liberals are on!
May 26th, 2007 at 9:36 pmHow could Democrats possibly be for a draft to INVOLUNTARILY send people to war when they are the anti-war party?
Hell, at least Republicans don’t force you to sign up. At worst, you would have to see through some recruiter’s lies (no offense meant to the honest recruiters, which the majority of them are).
It doesn’t add up.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:41 pmhey Wayne, if we *start* leaving tomorrow, we won’t ge gone the next day. I doubt we have enought planes to take 1000 out at a time. Moron.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:46 pmSignaling to the terrorist(just one terrorist, Mikey?) what our plans are? Sometimes I wonder just who’s(SIC) side you liberals are on!
Comment by michael —
I thought you were sure you knew what side we liberals/progressives are on; you’ve certainly made several accusations to that effect already. BTW, when are you going to answer my question about what, if any, luminaries were produced by your supposedly superior private high school? And since you apparently didn’t learn this in your supposedly superior private schools, “who’s” is a contraction for “who is.”
May 26th, 2007 at 9:54 pm“If the president is committed to fighting the war in Iraq over the long term, instead of simply running out the clock on his presidency, he should have the courage of his convictions and call for reinstating the draft.”
Of course, Bush is running out the clock… The so-called “surge” was a knee-jerk reaction from the Twit to the IRG report! The little moron chose to flip the bird again instead of listening to common sense and reason.
The little schmuck does not have the courage of his convictions. He does not even know what courage means.
May 26th, 2007 at 9:58 pmWhy does the Los Angeles Times hate our freedom?
May 26th, 2007 at 10:00 pmThe trolls are on crack today. Lordy.
Comment by Zooey
I noticed that. Is it my imagination, or are more and more of them showing up here, looking for a fight?
Not that I mind. It’s kind of fun slapping trolls around, in a matter of speaking, :-D, BUT, they do seem to hovering in clouds, like mosquitos at a 4th of July picnic in the Midwest.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:01 pmCan you deal with reality, Think Progress Mob?
Comment by DreamCrusher
They said the same thing about Vietnam, if we leave it will be a massacre. Never happened. Besides the Iraqis are asking the US to leave.
I know it’s hard for you liberals to see past tomorrow but this has nothing to do with Iraq! It is a war against muslims who want to kill us. It could have been Syria, Iran, or any other country in that region. In this case Iraq was the option because of your beloved UN’s resolutions -Michael
The UN resolution was not called ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ nor anywhere does it state it is a religious war. Besides it was Bush who wanted the UN to legitimize this police action.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:02 pmThe little schmuck does not have the courage of his convictions. He does not even know what courage means.
True, Devil’s Advocate, but if we get really lucky, he just might find out what “conviction” means, and “incarceration”, too.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:02 pmI noticed that. Is it my imagination, or are more and more of them showing up here, looking for a fight?
Comment by the republic of stupidity
They actually seem to be decompensating lately. They come here and blah, blah, blah, but not one of them is saying anything remotely new or interesting.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:06 pmThe Decider aka Commander Guy is an untreated alcoholic…he will seem to be doing exactly the opposite of what he should do….he is driven by ego or pride…he will never ever listen to anyone else and he requires his enablers to commend him and tell him that he is right…no matter how obvious it is that he is a freaking miserable failure at every turn in the road. Think about it.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:24 pmBush has NO courage, NOR any convictions, so he never does anything honorable. Dubya is the worst president in United States history.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:24 pmIf you want to know why trolls are showing up in droves today, it is because Huffingtonpost.com is updating servers today and no comments can be posted. They need somewhere to vent their venom and we are the lucky recipients.
PEACE
May 26th, 2007 at 10:25 pmThey actually seem to be decompensating lately. They come here and blah, blah, blah, but not one of them is saying anything remotely new or interesting.
Comment by Zooey
Aw, you’re just jealous of their superior intelligence and wit.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:26 pmThe draft would make all the chickenshit chickenhawk warmongers with the yellow “Support the Troops” decals on their cars, put up or shut up…everybody has to serve in the war with a draft. The way it is, the chickenshit chickenhawks watch FAUX, talk shit about how much they love the war while knowing abosoultely nothing about war or the sacrifice they are bidding on our troops. At least during Nam, you had to prove you were a draft dodger like Dubya and Cheney and the majority of the GOP.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:28 pmThey actually seem to be decompensating lately.
Is that “decompensating”, or merely “decomposing”? Me thinks ’tis the latter…
May 26th, 2007 at 10:33 pmThe draft would make all the chickenshit chickenhawk warmongers with the yellow “Support the Troops†decals on their cars, put up or shut up…everybody has to serve in the war with a draft. The way it is, the chickenshit chickenhawks watch FAUX, talk shit about how much they love the war while knowing abosoultely nothing about war or the sacrifice they are bidding on our troops. At least during Nam, you had to prove you were a draft dodger like Dubya and Cheney and the majority of the GOP.
Comment by kasinca
Very well said… :-)
May 26th, 2007 at 10:34 pmAny comment by DreamCrusher – I think Republican Ron Paul says it best “They attack us because we’ve been over there. We’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years. … We’ve been in the Middle East,â€. He sounds like most of us in here? Wow who woulda thunk-it? What’s really funny is that after both debates ALL polls showed that Ron Paul won with hefty margins. True conservatives believe in a non-interventionist policy towards other nations.
Nation building which the conservatives railed against Clinton for KoÅ¡evo and Sarajevo are mute now when it comes to this NeoCon approach to “democracy” in Iraq. You can’t bludgeon other countries and say now you will have a republic where democracy will reign. Doesn’t work. Islam is a system of religious hierarchies. Class tiers are based on religious doctrine and not he voting booth. The idiot that thought that we would be welcomed as liberators didn’t understand Muslims. That idiot was Paul Wolfowitz, and your president chose to listen to him.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmAw, you’re just jealous of their superior intelligence and wit.
Comment by gummitch
Sour grapes. :P
May 26th, 2007 at 10:44 pmRight on. And they need to find Zawahiri and try him in a court of law.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:45 pmIs that “decompensatingâ€, or merely “decomposingâ€? Me thinks ’tis the latter…
Comment by the republic of stupidity
They are super-smelly!
May 26th, 2007 at 10:48 pmOn a different note:
May 26th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
You wrote: “That would be the responsible path. Yet the president will never call for the draft. He knows the country would never support the level of sacrifice for this war that implementing a draft would demand. But this is one of the very reasons why the all-volunteer Army was designed the way it was — to prevent a commander in chief from fighting a war that lacks the support of the public.”
Whoa! The reason for creating the volunteer army was precisely the opposite: to give the government a military force to wage war when popular support for it was lacking. A conscripted army represents a cross section (more or less) of the population and hence is far more reflective of popular will than is a volunteer (or “professional”) army. The government opted for a professional army when it found that it could not count on the loyalty of a drafted army to do wage an unpopular (and grossly illegal) war. A paid and professional army is presumably loyal to whoever pays and commands it, not to the society as a whole. Professional armies are weapons of tyrants, so said the rebels of the 1760s and 1770s.
Many people also seem similarly confused about the War Powers Act, which was sold to a gullible public as a limitation on presidential war-making powers, when in fact it creates powers than are not authorized in the Constitution (according to which the Senate declares war, not the president). The “conspiracy” between dishonest government and lazy “journalists” is nothing new in the US.
May 26th, 2007 at 10:56 pmBnF,
May 26th, 2007 at 11:04 pmI must humbly admit that your verse tops my limerick. But then I can always use the “I was drinking” excuse.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 26, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Heh.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:07 pmAw, you’re just jealous of their superior intelligence and wit.
Comment by gummitch
Sorry, but I have yet to see a case of even equal intelligence and wit shown by the neoCON trolls here–let alone something superior. The only thing “superior” about the trolls here is their ego in thinking they are so clever. They aren’t.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:08 pm“Professional armies are weapons of tyrants, so said the rebels of the 1760s and 1770s.”
Wasn’t Napoleon’s enormous Army of the Republic the first “non-professional” national army in modern times? I thought most wars up until that time were fought by mercs. Our “Continentals” of the Revolution were basically guerillas.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:09 pmWell, its been a hoot, but I got to move along for now. ‘Night all!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:11 pmAs some of the others have suggested, what’s the point of writing “what Bush should do.” Courage, shame, justice, nothing matters to them: They’ll do the hell what they damn well please. Who’s gonna stop them? No one and nothing. Except impeachment.
Estamos jodidos.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:13 pm“BTW, when are you going to answer my question about what, if any, luminaries were produced by your supposedly superior private high school?
Comment by Lora — May 26, 2007″
I have no idea! So what!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:13 pm“The King will [never] call for a draft.
Sorry.
Comment by Zooey — May 26, 2007″
No, we are waiting for the childish debater to sign up!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:14 pm“He has a turd…..er, legacy to polish.
Comment by Zooey — May 26, 2007″
You care to explain that in terminology that someone beyond the 6th grade will understand?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:16 pm“Your reality is fantasy
Comment by Wayne — May 26, 2007″
It is? Explain?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:18 pm“The King will [never] call for a draft.
Sorry.
Comment by Zooey — May 26, 2007″
Dope!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:19 pmComment by Lora — May 26, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
But your verse inspired the muse, and to you (and the sparrow) goes the credit!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:23 pm“pass law to roll back bush’s tax cuts to pay for the war.
Comment by spencers mom — May 26, 2007″
I know you dopes on the left are against tax cuts but we don’t need to roll back those tax cuts to pay for the war; we have enough money. If you are looking for programs to reduce costs, to pay for a military that is protecting your liberal *ss, then close down some departments like agriculture, and education.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:24 pmNo, we are waiting for the childish debater to sign up!
Comment by michael
You’re already here!
I already kicked your ass once today. Wipe the snot off your nose, and f*ck off.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:24 pm“The only thing “superior†about the trolls here is their ego in thinking they are so clever. They aren’t.
Comment by Lora — May 26, 2007 ”
Sure we are! You can’t stand up to us! Want to try?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:26 pmmichael,
I have challenged you to a debate, yet you continually dodge the issue: explain the cell phone calls made from hijacked in-flight commercial aircraft on the eleventh of September, 2001.
Or shall I send a sparrow after you?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:26 pm“I already kicked your ass once today. Wipe the snot off your nose, and f*ck off.
Comment by Zooey — May 26, 2007″
For those who weren’t on that thread, care to explain how you did that? Why did it take kerry 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge AND does CO2 have an impact on warming? Explain?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:28 pm“explain the cell phone calls made from hijacked in-flight commercial aircraft on the eleventh of September, 2001.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — May 26, 2007″
What phone calls? What do you want to explain?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:30 pmMikey, you are not superior to anybody on this site…physically or mentally. Why do you insist on embarassing yourself?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:32 pm67 – I see you opted for the sparrow.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:33 pmFor those who weren’t on that thread, care to explain how you did that?
Comment by michael
*sigh* You simply must embarrass yourself….
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/26/protestors-barred-from-cheneys-speech/#comment-3824339
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/26/protestors-barred-from-cheneys-speech/#comment-3824408
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/26/protestors-barred-from-cheneys-speech/#comment-3824419
Dumb ass.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:35 pm67 – I see you opted for the sparrow.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I’m pretty sure he opted for the shit. :D
May 26th, 2007 at 11:38 pmThe ever-effective government just passed the “Stolen Valor Act” to prevent chickenhawk wannabes from wearing fake medals. How about a “STOLEN 2000 AND 2004 ELECTION ACT” to punish the Criminals-In-Chief who perpetrated their chickenhawk sham with DIEBOLD BLACK BOX ELECTION THEFT, “CAGING”, and their endless fear-mongering flagwaving BULLSHIT “war on terror” AGAINST Americans for over SIX YEARS?
May 26th, 2007 at 11:42 pmI know you dopes on the left are against tax cuts but we don’t need to roll back those tax cuts to pay for the war; we have enough money. If you are looking for programs to reduce costs, to pay for a military that is protecting your liberal *ss, then close down some departments like agriculture, and education.
Comment by michael
Clearly the Department of Education didn’t do you much good, did it? I can understand your resentment.
If I thought there was any possibility you’d have progeny, I’d remind you that it would be your children paying for the Iraqi occupation. I can see that this isn’t something you’re worried about, given your circumstances.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:43 pmComment by 911Truth — May 26, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
Can you PLEASE stop with the boldface? It is unreadable to those of use with terrible eyesight!
May 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pmZoo, not to mention 911Truth’s cut and paste ability. It is only slightly less annoying than a troll doing it.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:49 pmHow is forcibly sending people oversees to kill innocent civilians “sacrifice”?? Sounds like multiple counts of conspiracy to commit murder to me – not to mention all the war crimes being committed.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:54 pmNo surprise here. They’ll send the same few people back until either something gets blown off that they can’t replace.
The U.S. Congress has decided to step aside for a demi-Friedman or so, but the Iraqis might be able to take action and change conditions there, for better or worse.
The Iraqis can sign the Hydrocarbon Law (the only benchmark that matters), leaving them to fight each other over whatever oil fields (1/3 or less) the multinational oil companies leave them to play with. This would allow Bush/Cheney to declare victory (again), talk about bringing NATO/UN forces in, assign some soldiers 30 years of guard duty at Rumsfeld’s “lillypads” (permanent bases) and move on to the next target.
Or, the Iraqi Parliament could show the world just how independent its government is. They could try to have an official, public vote that would require foreign military forces to leave the country and notify the United Nations that those forces are no longer authorized to operate in Iraq. Of course, they’d have to do that without some sort of mass-casualty-producing event interrupting the proceedings… If the Iraqis actually did stand up, would we really stand down?
But a draft? There’s no need. There are plenty of desperate people in the world who would get shot at for the promise of a green card or a few dollars.
May 26th, 2007 at 11:57 pmreality&check. You really don’t get the idea that if we installed a draft more people would actually care that our children were dying, do you? As soon as Babs and her skanky sister had to put on green the war would be over.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:01 amYes, armies prior to the late 1700s were mercenary (professional) armies, employed by monarchs (tyrants). The American army of the revolutionary war was a popular army, as were the armies of revolutionary France in the 1790s (before Bonaparte). After the American revolution ended, Washington employed a standing military force, which he did threaten to use against would-be rebels (e.g, Whiskey Rebellion). Professional armies are inherently conservative and support regimes in power, unless something drastic happens to turn them against the regime.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:04 ambob, you are right. That is exactly why the founding fathers were adamant in their opposition to standing armies.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:06 amJPark, So forcibly sending more people into a situation where they will be intimidated into committing additional genocidal warcrimes…..is good because it might force the public to more aggressively protest against the war? Interesting theory – only it requires that thousands are unwillingly sent off to kill thousands more. The time in-between the initiation of the draft and the end of the war would absolutely mean the violent deaths of many more thousands. I think we can find a way to end the war without increasing the potential casualty pool.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:16 amreality&check. So, if a draft would end the war sooner you would be against it on principal?
May 27th, 2007 at 12:19 amreality&check. The fact is 70% of this country dislikes the Iraq war. A draft would make sure that that % would solidify. Likely it would send a whole lot of that 70% into the streets. There is no way the war would last another Friedman unit.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:22 amI think we can find a way to end the war without increasing the potential casualty pool.
Comment by reality&check
Good. Send your ideas to Russ Feingold, maybe they’ll help him end this war sooner.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:22 amHow is a draft going to end the war soon? Because “in theory” people would protest it more? The current leadership could care less – and thats an incredibly bloody and wasteful (and UNguaranteed) way to convince future leadership to end the war.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:25 amMichael,
Sounds like that 1999 Fisher Cab you chugged brought back your courage. I didn’t think we’d see you for a while after that spanking you got from Zooey in the “debate”. Classic! Shot yourself in the foot–nay, between the eyes–with your first salvo…
Re your military experience, how about you share some of your “war” stories with us… five years in the Navy… were you ever on a ship? Ever actually see/hear any hostile fire? With that Machine Accountant MOS, it sounds like you spent five years punching cards. Is that where you honed your keyboard commando chops?
How come you didn’t make a career of it. Weren’t you invited to “ship over†when your enlistment was up? Or did your “shipmates†throw a blanket party for you, to encourage your return to civilian life? Can’t wait to hear more about it…
Ciao,
May 27th, 2007 at 12:27 amreality&check, a fair draft would make certain a % of the corporate rights kids would go to war. I am not sure how this is confusing to you. Unless you believe they would buy their way out of it which is a very valid concern.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:29 amI guess this is the same 70% that went into the streets after the stolen election in ‘00 and ‘04? And what makes you think the neocons would let up on the same psychological (WARFARE) campaign that made those two events (and many others) “non-issues”. I’m sure 10 years ago people would agree that suspension of habeas corpus, or an exposed campaign to lie to start war would send people into the streets. Your belief that the draft would initiate war-ending protests is not grounded in present reality.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:32 amHehe, wrasscal, sweet b!tchslap. I just have to add that they do not allow 15 year olds to sign up so it is impossible for him to have served. He has never come up with any believable evidence that he has served and usually avoids the question altogether. Ask the veterans here. I am sure they know more about that than I.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:32 am#86 – Wrasscal
Heh. Thanks.
Goodnight all!
May 27th, 2007 at 12:35 amPer Michael “I know you dopes on the left are against tax cuts but we don’t need to roll back those tax cuts to pay for the war;”
Can you please explain how, if we “have enough money to pay for the war” the national DEBT has increased from $5.5 trillion to over $9 trillion during bush’s appointment?
If the Iraq “war” for oil is approaching $500 BILLION, how did we increase the national debt more than $4 trillion above that?
ROLL BACK THE TAX CUTS! Now THAT would get the attention of the populace!
PEACE
P.S FU
May 27th, 2007 at 12:37 amjpark, I am not sure how this is confusing you, but the kids of the corporate right would most definitely not be concerned with getting a draft card. The current criminals operating the government aren’t shy, and they wouldn’t be shy in giving the kids of parents with influence an easy out. I guess you’re gullible enough to believe that THIS is the one issue they would play by the book on – even when the very people who would initiate the draft are draft dodgers themselves?
May 27th, 2007 at 12:38 amThe solution is simple — Chimpy can just call up Blackwater and KBR and have them hire thousands of additional mercenaries (at $100,000+ per year) who can torture, maim, kill and/or commit any other atrocity that might be on the Administration’s wish list — with absolutely no risk of consequences to anyone (except the victims), since they have been placed beyond the reach of any known mechanism for accountability. According to a May 1, 2007 article by Jeremy Scahill in The Asia Times, “…It’s the estimated 126,000 private military ‘contractors’ who will stay put there as long as Congress continues funding the war…The 145,000 active-duty US forces are nearly matched by occupation personnel who currently come from such companies as Blackwater USA and the former Halliburton subsidiary KBR, which enjoy close personal and political ties with the Bush administration…” In addition, while many of the National Guard (along with their equipment) in Louisiana were deployed in Iraq, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the Administration merely used hired mercenaries again perform duties in Louisiana that would normally be assumed by their own National Guard troops. The same Asia Times article states, in part,
May 27th, 2007 at 12:41 amBlackwater…was also hired to protect Federal Emergency Management Agency operations and facilities in New Orleans, Louisiana, after Hurricane Katrina, where it raked in $240,000 a day from the American taxpayer, billing $950 a day per Blackwater contractor…” Even if they were working 24-hour days, which would be impossible, that would amount to nearly $40/hour, certainly an extravagant expense when compared with the expenditures required if National Guard troops had otherwise been available. At the time of the 2003 invasion, Great Britain provided 45,000 troops, and as of February of this year, that number had dwindled to 7,100, with further reductions planned over the coming months down to at least 5,500. Under such a scenario, Blackwater and KBR must have plenty of money to generously support the campaigns of those will prolong the occupation of Iraq in return for an increasing share of the business.”
reality&check, I really don’t think if Dems were using the draft as a way to shut down the war they would allow deferrments that the rich could use to get out of it. I agree if the bonus babies were allowed to get out of it, it wouldn’t be a good idea. But then, the Dems wouldn’t even bring it up.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:50 amLoL at the dems using (OWNING) the draft! The only thing they could do worse than that would be to try and issue a surrender resolution to Osama himself! That strategy might help with rise of a third party though, because there wouldn’t be much left of the democratic one.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:10 amIt’s been 1718 days since 9/11/2001, and Bush still hasn’t captured Osama bin Laden. Just thought the Trolls would want to know.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:10 amOk, reality&check. Thanks for that thoughtful post.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:13 amThere is only one conceivable route by which the draft could be reinstated without it being an act of political suicide. Staging a spectacular false flag event (do a web search on Operation Northwoods for an example of a plan that, fortunately, was not carried out) that would make 9/11 look like a Sunday school picnic, along with the five major news media outlets playing reruns of the event ad naseum (like the continual replaying of the towers coming down on 9/11). If needed, the President at the time could declare a national emergency and claim dictatorial powers (see White House website, dated May 9, 2007 for details under the provisions of NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51). Great masses of volunteers would be rushing to sign up for the military service, while anyone voicing a dissenting opinion would be swiftly silenced in such manner as to strongly discourage anyone else from doing likewise.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:16 amJTitor, look into the CIA history of Osama, and supposed network, alCIAduh, and it shouldn’t come as a shock to you why. Also, is your name based off “john titor” the alleged time traveler?
May 27th, 2007 at 1:17 amOnce a draft dodging fu(cking coward, always a lyingratbastardfu(cking coward.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:21 amPeriod.
Gutless, witless, evil clown.
No wonder so many kids are afraid of clowns.
Shit.
Comment by reality&check — Very aware of the Truth movement and Operation Northwoods…. Listening to Alex Jones as we speak. JTitor and John Titor are coincidences. I woke up a few years ago and then taught myself, and completely understand whats happening in front of eye’s. The problem is that it is hard to explain to people without them researching it themselves.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:30 amAlmost six months, to the day, after Chimpy said he wanted bin Laden “dead or alive”, he reversed course, as detailed on the official White House website for March 13, 2002, when asked about bin Laden, “So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you…Well, as I say, we haven’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don’t know where he is. I — I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run…” So, see, there is nothing to worry about — he is merely dusting off the bin Laden card to keep Americans fearful. Remember when he said on May 24, 2005, “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.†It’s just part of the game. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this were only just a frightening dream where we could wake up and discover that all is truly
May 27th, 2007 at 1:32 amwell with the world.
The best part of having an ALL-MERCENARY army in the US who are beyond the reach of U.S military law is that if they were to be
CAPTURED, KILLED or TORTURED
we would have NO REASON to feel SYMPATHY for them like we would for regular U.S. Military who try to serve the U.S. honorably.
They took the big buck job in the kill-or-be-killed world of the merc.
If they lose, tough zhit. Just more puke on the streets of Iraq. Who got what they lived by and DESERVED.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:05 am“BTW, when are you going to answer my question about what, if any, luminaries were produced by your supposedly superior private high school?
Comment by Lora — May 26, 2007″
–I have no idea! So what!
Sure we are (superior)! You can’t stand up to us! Want to try?
Comments by michael —
So it took you three months, and all you can reply is that you “have no idea So what,” eh? Then, sorry, Mikey, it’s rather hard for me to believe that your private high school education has been so “superior” to mine in public school, given the very primitive spelling mistakes you frequently make and given the fact that my high school has produced a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, a former Secretary State, a Newbery medalist, at least one Pulitzer Prize winner, while you can’t even give me the name of one distinguished graduate of your school.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:01 amI already cited you on the difference between “who’s” and “whose”–something a person who wants to boast of superior education and intelligence (both of which you sorely lack) should know. I tried and won already. And I haven’t seen you win any debates on anything, Mikey.
Comment by Lora — May 27, 2007 @ 3:01 am
Our troll michael is overall, well, primitive. I suspect that is the reason why his spelling mistakes are also primitive.
And I haven’t seen him debate on anything, let alone win. The best he’s done with me is “Thanks for playing into my hands?”. Yes, he used the question mark exactly thus, that prodigy product of a superior private school education…
May 27th, 2007 at 3:30 amOnly congress can reinstate the draft. The president can’t do it alone.
If congress was smart they wouldn’t have tried to tie war funding to deadlines for troop withdrawal, but to deadlines which say: if after such date troops are not withdrawn then the draft will be reinstated to maintain troop levels.
If Bush signed that (they’d have to force the issue to get that signature – or override the veto) then that’d end the war in no time flat.
Which means it’ll never happen.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:32 amBringing back the draft would require that DADT be abolished because most of today’s kids would simply tell their draft boards that they are gay. Very few would actually be conscripted because the old farts in the Pentagon would fight that repeal. Kids today think that gay is no biggie.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:37 amAnyone have more info on this?
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=86
Also drumming for war on Iran are the floundering neocons and the Israeli lobby. Under orders from the lobby, Nancy Pelosi stripped from a House bill a stipulation that Bush must come to Congress for authorization before launching an attack on Iran.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:28 am#105 Gregor,
May 27th, 2007 at 8:00 amWhat you write is spot on, but it’s undoubtedly lost on Mikey. I’m sure he can’t understand what’s wrong with his (mis)usage of the question mark. I’m even more sure that he thinks your moniker is your real name and is unfamiliar with the literary reference.
Have a good day.
I have begun to see that the Republican strategy on the draft is similar to their strategy on the federal budget. On the one hand, spend the nation into such debt that hated social programs like WIC, medicare, etc, will have to be cut when Republican are forced out of office. Republicans get less social spending, Democrats are forced to do it for them and get the blame.
On the other hand, Republicans will leave the military in such a weakened state when they are finally forced out of office that the Democrats will fee they have no choice but to institute a draft, especially if there is another crisis. So the nation gets a draft and the Democrats get the political blame.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:17 amNever happen.
If Chimpy reinstates the draft, we’ll see a level of political unrest and civil disobedience in this country that will make the 60s look like a sewing circle.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — May 26, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
absolutely correct… what’s it they say about the Holocaust? never again? that’s my motto for the draft… screw anyone on any side of the aisle who suggests it…
May 27th, 2007 at 9:46 amPlease don’t give Bush any more terrible ideas.
~Sean
May 27th, 2007 at 10:01 amExactly! They do not have the man power for this present surge without extending deployment times and reducing leaves. There have been recent reports about 200,000 U S armed forces in Iraq by the end of the year. I’m like where the hell are they going to get them.
These reports are just more Republican spin to gain as much political territory as possible from this new supplemental budget just passed. If we Americans believe that the administration is planning another surge in the fall, then this will induce even more anger upon the Democrats from the people.
The American people really need to wake up and smell the media, and this also involves thinking for oneself. A much over used quote by Adolph Hitler explains what is happening in our country today, “A rulers job is easy, when men do not think.” ‘Men”, of course, being gender neutral in post modern terminology.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:32 amWhy the picture of boy hero, WorldWarZero part time pilot???
May 27th, 2007 at 10:52 amBush went AWOL on his national guard unit during Vietnam.
Cheney received 5 deferments because he had “better things to do”.
And yet these two cowards sit up there on high, repeatedly spouting off about sacrifice and freedom, and commitment, and stay the course, blah-blah-blah.
The hypocrisy is disgusting. Iraq is all about an oil grab, nothing more. The real shame in it is using our troops as pawns, and lying about the reasons we’re there. A blind man can see through the bullsh*t!
May 27th, 2007 at 11:18 amI do think we need a draft. Then, we would get to see who the draft dodgers (Bill Clinton) would be.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:21 amI do think we need a draft. Then, we would get to see who the draft dodgers (Bill Clinton) would be.
Yeah and draft-dodgers like Dick Cheney (5 deferments) and all the college “young rapeublicans”.
And MOST of the Rapeublics in Congress.
And AWOL deserters like George aWol bush…
Good idea!!!
May 27th, 2007 at 12:29 pmSo, what sacrifice have Chimpy and Deadeye Dick made during the past several years? Oh, yes, their tax bills have been reduced significantly and they now have to figure out what to do with all the extra loot, which they won’t really need when (and if) they leave office, since the corporations that were favored by their policies will ensure them a lifetime of luxury that neither could have imagined before entering office.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:34 pmCouldn’t you imagine Rush, Beck, Sean(I’ll hold one in my mouth til it goes soft)Hannity,the two limpwrists on Fox and Friends (Steve Duchey and Little Boy Brian),Britney, especially Neal Boortz, Eddie Munster JR.(Cavouto),John (I’ve only had one drink)Gibson, Melanie Morgan,Michelle (Jackpot Baby) Malkin,Cutie Pie Couric,and on and on, whining about how we can’t afford a Draft,it won’t work they can’t be trained, in two two years to fight etc! BS it takes roughly 6 months and they know it!
May 27th, 2007 at 1:37 pmLet those who are gay serve and be drafted,no deferments given!Everyone, men and women to be drafted.
Combat Wounded Veterans to sit on Local Draft Boards,and in the Voting majority! If your mentally or physically disabled, the Board will use the Military and VA requirements to determine if your fit or not to serve!
Start at age 26 and work down to the High Graduates!
That’s my opinion!
Harriet Myers paid $23 million in bribes to keep Bush out of Vietnam.
“Gonzales should be read his rights and carted away. But it’s the puppeteers behind him — Rove and Harriet Miers — who were deeply involved in the prosecutor hits. No one’s talking about her. This is the woman who went from head of the Texas State Lottery to nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court by George Bush, and no one asked how that happened. They said: Harriet who? But they didn’t ask how that happened. They said, oh, she’s loyal to Bush. She’s the one who did the payoffs to cover up the fact that George Senior got George Junior out of the war in Vietnam. Do you think that that was done just by daddy making a call? Money had to be paid — lots and lots of money to keep people quiet — $23 million. That is something I reported on BBC Television and in the Guardian newspaper. We’ve given them plenty of time to challenge that story about the payoffs. We’ve never gotten a peep from these guys. And unlike CBS, the BBC has not withdrawn the story that the fix was put in to get Chicken George out of Vietnam. No one has challenged our story, nor have we withdrawn a comment on our story that the payoffs were made to keep it quiet.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:12 pm– Greg Palast
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/061
“he should have the courage of his convictions and call for reinstating the draft.”
He doesn’t have any convictions or courage, he’s a psychopathic idiot just like all conservatives! Conservative blogs won’t let liberals post!
May 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pmWiggy; you want to name draft-dodgers do you? The GOP is FULL of cowardly chickenhawks- John Ashcroft(7 deferements), Dickhead Cheney(5), GW Bush(deserter), Elliott Abrams, Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist, Rush Limpdick(pimple on his ass), KKK Rove, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill O’Leilly, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Bill Kristol,….need I continue?
May 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThe responsible thing to do is to force people to join instead of relying on volunteers? Is this what passes for progressive logic?
May 27th, 2007 at 8:13 pmThe responsible thing to do is to force people to join instead of relying on volunteers? Is this what passes for progressive logic?
So, WHAT should TRAITOR Bush do to get to the level of the 200,000 troops he needs??
Maybe, since he’s the “decider” and “commander guy”, and according to Gonzo can do ANYTHING, he can LOWER the recruiting age to 12…
May 28th, 2007 at 12:40 am“Come on kid… WHY do you and your Teddy Bear HATE America and the President and the TROOPS???”
USA
Bush would have convictions, but his family connections bailed him out.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:11 pmmichael,
re: John Kerry’s discharge
Who cares? I have never seen you pose this question on a relevant thread (or in a relevant year).
May 29th, 2007 at 10:47 am