Ledeen: ‘Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton Cult’ Is ‘Disrupting Military Funerals’ Nationwide
Ledeen: ‘Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton Cult’ Is ‘Disrupting Military Funerals’ Nationwide
National Review Contributing Editor and prominent neoconservative Michael Ledeen writes on The Corner today about a funeral in Texas for a U.S. soldier killed in Iraq:
In many places around the country, members of the Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton cult disrupt military funerals, but I doubt they would attempt to perform their disgusting ritual in a fine place as described here.
The only “cult” that travels the country disrupting military funerals is the “anti-gay hate group Westboro Baptist Church,” whose leader Fred Phelps has picketed dozens of funerals with messages such as “Thank God For AIDS” and “God Hates Fags.” There are only 70 members of the church, “60 of whom are related to Phelps through blood or marriage or both.”
Obviously, Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV), Barack Obama (D-IL), and Hillary Clinton (D-NY) have nothing to do with Phelps’ group. (”As for Sheehan,” Attaturk notes, “she had to attend one funeral for sure, HER SON’S!“) Just last year, the Senate unanimously passed legislation prohibiting Phelps and others from protesting around military funerals.
Ledeen’s effort to smear people by associating them with a vicious hate group is particularly notable since Ledeen is an adviser to Karl Rove:
One is Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, whose specialties include terrorism and the Middle East. His latest book, according to the official summary, asserts that “America must topple the regimes of the terror masters to eliminate the threat of terrorism.”
The two met after Bush’s election. “He said, ‘Anytime you have a good idea, tell me,’ ” Ledeen said. Every month or six weeks, Ledeen will offer Rove “something you should be thinking about.” More than once, Ledeen has seen his ideas, faxed to Rove, become official policy or rhetoric.
Ledeen later issued a “correction,” claiming that while the funeral protesters he mentioned were from a “disgusting anti-gay church,” the “anti-war cultists staged their own mock funerals, led by Sheehan’s followers at Code Pink.” This is more intellectual dishonesty. Phelps’ hateful demonstrations have nothing in common with Code Pink’s processions, which feature “mothers grieving the sons and daughters lost to war.”
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Is he wearing a denim VEST?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pmPhelps is a waste of human flesh, who quite frankly I would crawl through 2 miles of broken glass just for the opportunity to rip his throat out.
The rest of them I just disagree with on things, they have nothing to do with that piece of trash.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pmLedeen — What an ignorant prick.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:02 pmMy thought Tundra would be to catch Phelps in a compromising position with a male prostitute.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:06 pmLedeen must be arrested and given a prison term for lying and trying to incite attacks on Democrats in the Congress.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pmwouldn’t want “protesters” to “disrupt” anything that has to do with the military, now would we??
Such is the way of thinking of the war lovers – the raise the importance of warmaking and the military…and soldiers, above everyone else.
makes me sick.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:07 pmLedeen — What an ignorant prick.
Comment by Zooey
And liar
Just as easy to call him a neocon clown, which encompasses it all =)
May 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pmThat’s a pretty diverse cult.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:10 pmwouldn’t want “protesters†to “disrupt†anything that has to do with the military, now would we??
Um no it’s peoples funerals. Anyone who protests a funeral is seriously messed up. I may not agree with Farwell but I damn sure wouldn’t take his funeral to make a political point.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:11 pmLedeen — What an ignorant prick.
Comment by Zooey — May 29, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
I wish he was that good, Zooey. This god awful excuse for a human being is deeply involved, mostly out of sight, with the neocon ideology. You want to scare the shit out of yourself?? Read his book called “Machiavelli on Modern Leadership.”
I will type up a couple of quotes to give you a taste in another post.
Ledeen is the worst scum that exists on the right. I will take the Kristals over him!!!
May 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pmComment by Krazny — May 29, 2007 @ 2:06 pm
Wouldn’t that just be the ultimate justice?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pmWhy is the leading talking head and personal writer for Dick Cheney ever listened to?
More importantly why is he not charged with treason for assisting in manipulating the American people into accepting the following AEI/PNAC traitorous projects:
anti-constitutional patriot act
the anti geneva convention military commissions act
the war in iraq
the “surge hard and surge long” plan
the “surge harder and surge longer” plan
expousing the believe that “kids always die in war” and “the American people will be tested as to their willpower….do they want to tell the next generation that they failed” and other machiavellian talking points
the spin doctor for the upcomming war on iran
the spin doctor for the upcoming n-false flag to get us into a war with iran
a prime suspect in the upcoming n-false flag for the upcoming war with iran
an architect for the upcoming war with iran
an architect and spin doctor to events before and after 9/11
So why is he not tried for treason?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:13 pmledeen talking cults — that’s classic. considering it was his crew (and daughter) who staffed the cpa with baby reich-wing spawn with damned little relevant experience, but plenty of cultish belief in commandante stupido.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pm” ‘Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton Cult’ Is ‘Disrupting Military Funerals’ Nationwide”
Good on their Bods!!!
King George the Dumb caused all of the funerals in the first place. It is KGtD that should be disrupted.
From recent first hand experience I am glad my funeral was disrupted. The alternative is so much better.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:15 pmPlease call National Review on their BS!
letters@nationalreview.com
May 29th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThis is the kind of arrogant self inflated jackass that the colonies took to the mat in our Revolutionary War over 230 years ago. These guys (Ledeen, Rove, Bush, etc.) are living in a parallel universe where Bush is King, Rove is his slimy advisor, and Ledeen is the royal jester. We did it before. Should we do it again? What tools!
May 29th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThat actually should be the Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton-Gore Cult.
Gore is the architect; he and Phelps are old pals.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:22 pmMichael Ledeen is a pro-fascist nut with a lot of clout. within the Bush administration. see here: http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html
May 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pmI will simply agree with Tundra: Anyone who protests a funeral is seriously messed up.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:23 pm“In many places around the country, members of the Sheehan-Reid-Obama-Clinton cult disrupt military funerals…”
Well since members of the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld-Rice cult have CAUSED all these military funerals in many places around the country, isn’t it only right??? I mean, you know what they say about payback, it being a be-yotch and all…
May 29th, 2007 at 2:24 pm*
LIE . rinse . REPEAT.
the deed is done…
again, actually… i had to deal with this a couple of years ago, clearing up the facts for a local soldier…
May 29th, 2007 at 2:24 pmthese CONS are just ruthless, no qualms about lying…
…
The sad thing, despite this man’s dimnished mental capacity and propensity for lies is that this will be picked up by Rush and by Faux Noise. They will report it as fact. Sean Hannity will then have someone on his show tying himself in knots because of what the crazy liberals are doing at funerals and by Friday it will be a part of the Republic Party lexicon. I sometimes think the game plan on our side when garbage like this comes out is that if we remain silent and dont draw attention to the issue it will go away. But it doesn’t. John Kerry found that out with the Swift Boaters.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pmSuggestion to Ledeen – Your cult causes so many of these funerals taking place… so why don’t you lot f*ck off, and thus put the funeral disrupters out of business.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:26 pmDo these people even know what comes out of their mouths? It’s as if they were trying to prove their insanity over and over again.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:27 pmThis type of statement isn’t about proof, it is about linking Hillary, Obama, and the left, with a radical and well hated group. Despite that fact that as democrats, and people who support gay marriage, and gay rights, etc, they are just as hated. Phelps is a lone wolf, not connected to anyway, because of his extreme views.
Side note, Dems don’t have a “cult” please see the recent uproar about the funding for the war. Bush and his group is far more cult like.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:28 pmI’m just glad Cindy Sheehan and Rosie O’Donnell are BOTH gone.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:30 pmreal intelligent Ledeen; put 10 kinds of animal crap in a bag, cover with toilet paper, light & run
May 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pmMore than once, Ledeen has seen his ideas, faxed to Rove, become official policy or rhetoric.
Guess we can include him in the list of those headed for court!
May 29th, 2007 at 2:34 pmJust amazing how these reptiles with the help of the neocon media continue to play politics around this invasion/massacre now occupation. All the carnage and mayhem will be exploited and spun giving the advantage to the republicans for ‘08 election time. Absolutely disgusting. How can they politic around the lives of our military? Will the American people fall for the manipulation?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:43 pmBut what are we going to do about these people. It is time that they are punised for their lies and attempts to thwart democracy. I think that the time to play by the rules have long since passed. I believe that these scum should be subjected to the same type of protests that have been leveled against abortion Drs. They should be assailed in public, at their places of work, worship and homes. They should never be permitted to show their faces in public without a certain number of protesters educating them and the public in general as to their lies and immoral positions.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:45 pmI’m just glad Cindy Sheehan and Rosie O’Donnell are BOTH gone.
Comment by Jake
Why because they speak the truth? Truth hurts, doesn’t it?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:45 pmLedeen is the worst scum that exists on the right. I will take the Kristals over him!!!
Comment by Merlin
I’m looking forwarding to seeing that list Merlin. I’ve never heard of the guy. I’m just going by this post and the articles.
Phelps — I’ve heard of. Gross.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pmFunny bit, is Al Gore just did a book on exactly this. An attack on reason. This guy isn’t trying to be reasonable, he is trying to link a disturbed group of people with his political enemies. Nothing more, nothing less.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pmMichael Ledeen is a pathological liar and a generally disgusting excuse for a human being. He almost certainly belongs in prison.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pmFrom recent first hand experience I am glad my funeral was disrupted. The alternative is so much better.
Comment by Clyde the Ripper
We’re glad too, Clyde! How are you doing?
May 29th, 2007 at 2:48 pmWho needs honesty? Honesty isn’t nearly as effective as grade-a bullshit.
Ha, the damage is done. Deal with it libs!
May 29th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI’ve never heard of the guy.
Comment by Zooey — May 29, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Every human on the planet needs to be aware of this person and people like him that non-chalantly expound intellectual discourse, while behind the scenes plan for 99% population reduction. Here are some choice info from sourcewatch:
Ledeen is “a former employee of the Pentagon, the State Department and the National Security Council. As a consultant working with NSC head Robert McFarlane, he was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair — an adventure that he documented in the book Perilous Statecraft: An Insider’s Account of the Iran-Contra Affair. His most influential book is last year’s [2002] The War Against the Terror Masters: Why It Happened. Where We Are Now. How We’ll Win.
“Ledeen’s ideas are repeated daily by such figures as Richard Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld and Paul Dundes Wolfowitz. His views virtually define the stark departure from American foreign policy philosophy that existed before the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001. He basically believes that violence in the service of the spread of democracy is America’s manifest destiny. Consequently, he has become the philosophical legitimator of the American occupation of Iraq.”
Ledeen also has called for “regime change beyond Iraq” and believes that it is also “time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon.’
“With a group of other conservatives, Ledeen recently [2003] set up the Coalition for Democracy in Iran (CDI), an action group focusing on producing regime change in Iran.
“Quotes from Ledeen’s works reveal a peculiar set of beliefs about American attitudes toward violence. ‘Change — above all violent change — is the essence of human history,’ he proclaims in his book, Machiavelli on Modern Leadership: Why Machiavelli’s Iron Rules Are as Timely and Important Today as Five Centuries Ago. In an influential essay in the National Review Online [4] he asserts, ‘Creative destruction is our middle name. We do it automatically … it is time once again to export the democratic revolution.’
“Ledeen has become the driving philosophical force behind the neoconservative movement and the military actions it has spawned. His 1996 book, Freedom Betrayed; How the United States Led a Global Domocratic Revolution, Won the Cold War, and Walked Away, reveals the basic neoconservative obsession: the United States never ‘won’ the Cold War; the Soviet Union collapsed of its own weight without a shot being fired. Had the United States truly won, democratic institutions would be sprouting everywhere the threat of Communism had been rife.
“Consequently, Ledeen has excoriated both the State Department and the United Nations for their preference for diplomatic solutions to conflict; and the CIA for equivocating on evidence that would condemn ‘America’s enemies’ and justify militant action.
“‘No one I know wants to wage war on Iran and Syria, but I believe there is now a clear recognition that we must defend ourselves against them,’ Ledeen wrote on May 6 in the Toronto Globe and Mail.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:52 pmLedeen is your typical Republican think-tank asshole.
He claims to be an expert on Iran, but he can’t even speak Farsi and he thinks learning it is a waste of time:
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/01/15/ledeen/index.html
(snip)
Q. Do you speak Farsi, the language of Iran?
A. No. That’s why God invented translators.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:53 pm(snip)
From the Ministry of Truth:
Henceforth, MSM “news” outlets will adhere to a strict policy of truth. Therefore, “conservative” will read “Party member” and “prominent conservative” will read “Inner Party member”.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:56 pmObviously, Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV), Barack Obama (D-IL), and Hillary Clinton (D-NY) have nothing to do with Phelps’ group.
————————————————————————————–
Unlike Al Gore.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/20001025_xnjdo_FredTimGore1.jpg
http://photos17.flickr.com/22991073_e1163dc87d_m.jpg
http://www.logcabinwa.com/archive/200010251159.shtml
May 29th, 2007 at 2:56 pmThis type of statement isn’t about proof, it is about linking Hillary, Obama, and the left, with a radical and well hated group. Despite that fact that as democrats, and people who support gay marriage, and gay rights, etc, they are just as hated. Phelps is a lone wolf, not connected to anyway, because of his extreme views.
Side note, Dems don’t have a “cult†please see the recent uproar about the funding for the war. Bush and his group is far more cult like.
Comment by Krazny
Exactly. The smear campaign is off to a good start to distort the view of the Dems and shamefully this is proof the neocons own the media. Not only are we up against big money on the republican side, but the republican corporate owned media is probably our biggest hurdle. With that said this is a FASCIST state.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComment by digg deep — May 29, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Wow. Thanks for that information. He’s truly dangerous.
May 29th, 2007 at 2:58 pmDo people still take this racist nutbag serious still? Why haven’t we looked at charging Ledeen with violating the Logan Act?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
The Logan Act is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. It was passed in 1799 and last amended in 1994. Violation of the Logan Act is a felony, punishable under federal law with imprisonment of up to three years.
The text of the Act is broad and is addressed at any attempt of a US citizen to conduct foreign relations without authority.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:00 pmUhh sure ringo, cause worldnutdaily is such a fine upstanding news source.
ROFL
May 29th, 2007 at 3:02 pmI’m just glad Cindy Sheehan and Rosie O’Donnell are BOTH gone.
Comment by Jake — May 29, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Gone? Where did they go exactly – Jake*ss?
On that note, when are you going to “go” son? You’re as useless as both of those fat saggy t*ts you carry around.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:04 pmThats the only way these people can put forth their agenda is using lies, half-truths muddled with lies, and blatent propaganda. Did I mention lies?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:04 pmJust another scumbag neocon.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:09 pmKrazny,
From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 Democratic Party primary election.[32] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a “gay bill of rights” and stated that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.[33] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[34] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps’ son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka.[8][34] Fred Phelps, Jr. served as a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[34][35] Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment; “We are not dignifying those stories with a response.”[36]
Here’s a photo of a smiling Al and Tipper with Mr.& Mrs Phelps:
http://www.sierratimes.com/images/FredBettyGoreTipper1.jpg
It’s true, deal with it.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:10 pmLast year, Fred Phelps and his gang came to Massachusetts, to protest high school graduations. Because our high schools allow gay students to form support groups, you see.
They went to Lexington, and protested on the Common. The good people of Lexington staged a counter protest, which involved standing together and quietly, with great dignity, turning their backs in silence on the Phelps circus. I think this gives you a great insight into the people of Lexington.
Then they went to Lowell. I won’t describe exactly how the counter-protest was organized, but the good people of the Lowell Police Department saw fit to separate the two groups with a cordon of officers, a chain link fence, and a second cordon of officers. I think this grive you a great insight into the people of Lowell, too.
Go Lowell!
May 29th, 2007 at 3:10 pmringo, beat the drums, not your head. You might be able to salvage a few of those remaining brain cells that way. And please continue to post here at TP, so you can “get by with a little help from your friends”.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pmYou might also keep in mind that Fred Phelps has been a long time Democrat.
Also from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps#Democratic_Party
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15% of the vote in 1998.[30] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31% of the vote [31]
May 29th, 2007 at 3:13 pmLet’s not forget, that Ledeen is implicated in the crudely forged letters, purporting to show that Saddam was attempting to purchase uranium from Niger.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pmHere is a portion of the interview between Amy Goodman and author, Peter Eisner “co-author of the book, The Italian Letter: How the Bush Administration Used a Fake Letter to Build the Case for War in Iraq†:
“AMY GOODMAN: Peter Eisner, do you have more to say on this point of this backroom, backdoor Iran-Pentagon link that goes back? I mean, it goes way back to Iran-Contra, secret channel to Iran to sell weapons to them and then skim off the profits and support the Contras in Nicaragua.
PETER EISNER: Yes, indeed. First of all, it was arranged by a gentleman by Michael Ledeen, who is a long-term operative in US circles that goes back at least to the Iran-Contra period. Michael Ledeen is a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, the heart of neoconservatism in the United States, allied with Lynne Cheney, allied with various other people close as could be to the Bush administration. Ledeen set this meeting up. Ledeen set it up without advising the US embassy. Ledeen has a longtime relationship with Italy.
Ledeen, interestingly, very interestingly, had a relationship with the magazine Panorama, which was the target of the delivery of the Italian letter and its dossier [emphasis mine] in October 2002. As a matter of fact, Ledeen started writing a column in October of 2002 for the magazine Panorama, and yet, (a), Ledeen has been widely discredited in the US intelligence community. The person that he brought to the meeting in Rome, Manuchar Ghorbanifar, has been described for years by US intelligence as a serial fabricator. But Ledeen, close to the Bush administration, has said that Ghorbanifar is the most reliable and honest person that he knows. This cannot be separated from the fact that Chalabi himself is questioned as having been an Iranian agent. So there’s a whole nexus of questions here that go beyond what one can really get without a series of subpoenas.â€
Link: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/10/1321236
leeden is an adviser to karl rove. does he advise which hand to use?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pmCindy Sheehan announced on Ed Shultz show, she may come back, needs a break for now to reevaluate and is very disgusted with the Dems vote over the funding ( of what Bush calls a war).
May 29th, 2007 at 3:16 pmComment by Krazny — May 29, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
More than just WND:
http://www.google.com/search?q=+Fred+Phelps+and+al+gore&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7HPIC
Ledeen was just confused about WHICH Dems support the Phelps group.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:16 pmI’m just glad Cindy Sheehan and Rosie O’Donnell are BOTH gone.
Comment by Jake —
Hey Jake, I see your mom gave your computer back? Are you still on restriction for leaving a mess all over the keyboard? She said that she was really upset with you “little mister”. Apparently, the W key no longers works. She said that you goozed it all up last night. Where you on http://www.jeffgannon.com/ again. Dude, your mom said to keep your hanky handy. She’s thinking about making you leave the basement. Hell, how old are you now? 37?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:17 pmLOL Ringo, just because he signs up as a democrat, does not mean he is a democrat. So please drop that Shtick, also if you are using things almost 20 years old to indicate a relationship between Gore, and Phelps, then you are more braindead then I thought. At the time I sincerely doubt that Phelps was as rapid about the homosexual issue, and I doubt that any relationship exists between Gore and Phelps today. More importantly, I doubt a relationship has existed for a number of years. I don’t place Phelps in with the right, although he fits well in some instances, Please don’t place Phelps with the left.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:19 pmfrom Wiki………
Michael Ledeen had been accused of being involved in the forgery which claimed that Saddam Hussein had bought yellowcake in Niger.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:21 pmAccording to Joshua Micah Marshall, Laura Rozen, and Paul Glastris noted in Washington Monthly of September 2004:[8]
“The first meeting occurred in Rome in December, 2001. It included Franklin, Rhode, and another American, the neoconservative writer and operative Michael Ledeen, who organized the meeting. (According to UPI, Ledeen was then working for Feith as a consultant.) Also in attendance was Ghorbanifar and a number of other Iranians.
In 2005, Vincent Cannistraro, former head of counterterrorism operations at the CIA and the intelligence director at the National Security Council under Ronald Reagan, when asked by Ian Masters if Ledeen was the source of the forged memo, replied, “You’d be very close.” However, just moments earlier when asked, “Do we know who produced those documents?” Cannistraro stated, ” I’d rather not speak about it right now, because I don’t think it’s a proven case”[9]
Former CIA counter-terrorism officer Philip Giraldi, who is Cannistraro’s business partner and a columnist for The American Conservative, a paleoconservative magazine, said in an interview on July 26, 2005 that the forgeries were produced by “a couple of former CIA officers who are familiar with that part of the world who are associated with a certain well-known neoconservative who has close connections with Italy” and went on to confirm that he was referring to Ledeen. Giraldi added that the ex-CIA officers “also had some equity interests, shall we say, with the operation. A lot of these people are in consulting positions, and they get various, shall we say, emoluments in overseas accounts, and that kind of thing.”[10]
Giraldi more recently stated in The American Conservative:[11]
At this point, any American connection to the actual forgeries remains unsubstantiated, though the OSP at a minimum connived to circumvent established procedures to present the information directly to receptive policy makers in the White House. But if the OSP is more deeply involved, Michael Ledeen, who denies any connection with the Niger documents, would have been a logical intermediary in co-ordinating the falsification of the documents and their surfacing, as he was both a Pentagon contractor and was frequently in Italy. He could have easily been assisted by ex-CIA friends from Iran-Contra days, including a former Chief of Station from Rome, who, like Ledeen, was also a consultant for the Pentagon and the Iraqi National Congress. It would have been extremely convenient for the administration, struggling to explain why Iraq was a threat, to be able to produce information from an unimpeachable “foreign intelligence source†to confirm the Iraqi worst-case. The possible forgery of the information by Defense Department employees would explain the viciousness of the attack on Valerie Plame and her husband. Wilson, when he denounced the forgeries in the New York Times in July 2003, turned an issue in which there was little public interest into something much bigger. The investigation continues, but the campaign against this lone detractor suggests that the administration was concerned about something far weightier than his critical op-ed.
Andrew McCarthy and Mark R. Levin have defended Ledeen, writing[12]
Up until now, the fiction recklessly spewed by disgruntled intelligence-community retirees and their media enablers — some of whom have conceded that the claim is based on zero evidence — has been that Michael had something to do with the forged Italian documents that, according to the Left’s narrative, were the basis for President Bush’s “lie†in the 2003 State of the Union Address that Saddam Hussein had obtained yellowcake uranium (for nuclear-weapons construction) in Africa. Of course,
Michael had utterly nothing to do with the forgeries (the source has actually been identified);
the forgeries were not the basis for the president’s statement; the president did not claim Saddam obtained yellowcake — merely that intelligence reports indicated that Saddam had sought to obtain it; and
the British intelligence reports that actually were the basis for the president’s statement were true (the Brits stand by them to this day).
But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story? (bullets added)
Here is a taste, Zooey.
Here are some quotes from the book by Ledeen “Machiavelli on Modern Leadership.â€
There is so much ideological insanity it is mind boggling. I apologize for the length of this but it is worth the read to get the flavor of this horrible individual. This guy is no flak. His input is strong.
From the chapter: The War of Politics
A prince, Machiavelli warns, “must have no other objective or other thought, or take anything for his craft, except war.” meaning that the virtues of the warrior are those of all great leaders of any successful organization.
…the myth that peace is normal, produces a solvent strong enough to dissolve the strength of our armed forces and the integrity of our political and military leaders. The supreme importance of the military and the morale that binds fighting men together derive from the recognition that, without them, our enemies will kill or dominate us.
From the chapter: Of Good and Evil
Leave us to our own devices, and all hell breaks loose. Give us total freedom, and we will reenact The Lord of the Flies. We are “more ready for evil than for good.” Therefore we must not be left to our own devices. We must be forced or, under ideal circumstances, convinced or inspired to do good. This can be done, and the results have been spectacular.. Properly led, we can achieve glory. And since we will do anything to satisfy our ruinous impulses, all manner of nastiness may be required to keep us under control, and to defeat our enemies.
There’s the rub: In order to achieve the most noble accomplishments, the leader may have to “enter into evil.” This is the chilling insight that has made Machiavelli so feared, admired and challenging. We are rotten, it is true, but we can achieve greatness if, and only if, we are properly led. We are prey for our fellow men, yet with great leaders we can prevail.
If you want to lead, you must demonstrate your ability to rule your own people and defeat your enemies, and the only way is to show your power. You “must presuppose all men are criminal, and that they will always use the malignity of their spirit whenever they may have free occasion.”
A prince must not worry about the reproach of cruelty when it is a matter of keeping his subjects united and loyal.
From the chapter: How to Rule
The tools of discipline-arms, laws, and religion-are common to all well-constituted states. All three compel men to repress their dangerous instincts and act virtuously. This is accomplished by fear. Without the fear of God no state can last long. Rewards and punishments should make a forceful impression on the citizens. Machaivelli insists that no mercy should be shown in enforcing the law, even to those who have earned gratitude of the nation for past acts. Moreover the law should not merely be enforced, it should be given grandeur. Punishment, including executions, should be public, so that the fearful effect is magnified. Religion should not be merely observed, it should be celebrated. If the stagecraft is successful, the leader will have less trouble maintaining order.
All the bold emphasis is mine.
This book could be the neocon “bible”
May 29th, 2007 at 3:21 pmComment by Merlin,
Ahh…Are you unfamiliar with Machiavelli ?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:25 pmObviously, Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV), Barack Obama (D-IL), and Hillary Clinton (D-NY) have nothing to do with Phelps’ group.
————————————————————————————–
Unlike Al Gore.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/ images/ 20001025_xnjdo_FredTimGore1.jpg
http://photos17.flickr.com/22991073_e1163dc87d_m.jpg
http://www.logcabinwa.com/archive/200010251159.shtml
Comment by Ringo — May 29, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
Oh, poor st*pid little Nazi f*cker. All of you Wingnut Zealots in the south “used” to be Democrats – until you decided that only the Republican Party was Racist, Homophobic and Misogynistic enough for you!
Good old Phelps publicly stated that the Democratic party, and Gore and all of the rest of the Democrats had deserted his values of “bigotry”, and that he would no longer support them! Guess that leaves him as one of “you” – you racist homophobic piece of sh*t.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:30 pm#37 Comment by digg deep — May 29, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Thanks for that info. This prick needs to be exposed…BIG TIME.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:32 pm#59 Comment by Ringo — May 29, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Ahh…Are you unfamiliar with Machiavelli ?
Do you think I am?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:37 pmThis book could be the neocon “bibleâ€
Comment by Merlin
Thanks for all that information and effort, Merlin. Ledeen gets more scary by the minute. I wonder where that sort of vile filth comes from?
May 29th, 2007 at 3:38 pmHey, Ringo, why didn’t you post this part?
“Opposition to Al Gore and Bill Clinton
During the 1992 presidential campaign, Phelps protested Hillary Clinton during a campaign speech in support of the Clinton-Gore ticket at the University of Kansas on October 14, 1992. In Bill Clinton’s second presidential campaign, Phelps and the Westboro church also opposed Clinton and Gore because of the administration’s support for gay rights. The entire Westboro congregation picketed a 1997 inaugural ball[37], denouncing Gore as a “famous fag pimp.”[38] In 1998, Westboro picketed the funeral of Gore’s father, screaming vulgarities at Gore and telling him, “your dad’s in Hell.”[38]
In the aftermath of the election, in an incident that would be repeated years later when Phelps circulated a petition to outlaw homosexual work protection, many of the Kansas Democrats who had cast votes for Phelps came forward to express their distaste for him. They said that Phelps had lied about his intentions to numerous constituents, using double-talk and fuzzy language to confuse them; neglected to mention his stances on race, religion, and homosexuality, and campaigned mainly on the platform of a “good ol’ boy” Southern gentleman and retired lawyer unfairly prosecuted by the system.[39]”
It’s right there on the wikipedia page you linked to.
Wah wah wah waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh….
May 29th, 2007 at 3:38 pmI think I see a “spitting on the troops” as they return from ‘Nam lie/myth being set up.
It’s really all they have left, as the FACTS are starting to come out.
And to my not-so-dear in-laws: I WAS RIGHT !!
May 29th, 2007 at 3:39 pm…you racist homophobic piece of sh*t.
Comment by ValiantVenusGrewFromUranus
—————————————————————–
What exactly have I ever said that would give you the impression that I am homophobic or racist?
…or is that simply your default reply to anyone you disagree with?
FYI – I am in an interracial marriage and my 2 year old daughter’s babysitters are a lesbian couple who my wife and I love dearly and consider part of our family.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:40 pmComment by Clyde the Ripper — May 29, 2007 @ 2:15
Happy to see you back so soon. Glad you’re feeling better.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:43 pmLedeen was just confused about WHICH Dems support the Phelps group.
Comment by hacker bob
Here’s a good article about the Phelps group and Democrats:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1999/03/lauerman.html?welcome=true
May 29th, 2007 at 3:45 pmLedeen must be arrested and given a prison term for lying and trying to incite attacks on Democrats in the Congress.
Comment by Jay Randal — May 29, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Yes, and remove that Freedom of Speech thing from the constitution as well.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:48 pmJoe,
why didn’t you post this part?
—————————————————–
I did. I linked to the entire wiki-article.
And it doesn’t change the fact that Phelps has run for office numerous times as a Democrat as recently as 1998 .
It also does not change the fact that Al Gore did say that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.
Can you imagine if any Republican had similar ties ties to Fred Phelps? You hypocrites would never shut up about it….and you sure wouldn’t accept any lame excuses like you’re making for Gore.
May 29th, 2007 at 3:49 pmWhat exactly have I ever said that would give you the impression that I am homophobic or racist?
…or is that simply your default reply to anyone you disagree with?
FYI – I am in an interracial marriage and my 2 year old daughter’s babysitters are a lesbian couple who my wife and I love dearly and consider part of our family.
Comment by Ringo — May 29, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
You’re a republican wingnut – the party of homophobia and racism. You support it, when you support the republicans – so get over yourself.
I did. I linked to the entire wiki-article.
And it doesn’t change the fact that Phelps has run for office numerous times as a Democrat as recently as 1998 .
It also does not change the fact that Al Gore did say that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirmâ€.
Can you imagine if any Republican had similar ties ties to Fred Phelps? You hypocrites would never shut up about it….and you sure wouldn’t accept any lame excuses like you’re making for Gore.
Comment by Ringo — May 29, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
So then Jack Abramoff is a “Republican Felon”, and Mark Foley is a “Republican Pedophile” and “Jerry Falwell” and the cast of Homophobic religious wingnuts and terrorists that kill innocent people out of religious terrorism are “Republican Terrorists”?
The difference between Democrats and Republicans – is that we “reject” racist, homophobic f*cks – whereas you embrace them and make them “Central figures” within your party.
Get over yourself – you hypocritical lying f*ckhead!
May 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pmCan you imagine if any Republican had similar ties ties to Fred Phelps? You hypocrites would never shut up about it….and you sure wouldn’t accept any lame excuses like you’re making for Gore. Comment by Ringo — May 29, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Actually no Democrat has “ties” to Phelps – those ties are long since “dead”. You do however have ties to “David Duke”, who’s a Republican “leader”… I guess that means that Anti-Semitic, Homophobic and Racist values are “Republican” values – since you have those ties?
May 29th, 2007 at 4:08 pm#63 Comment by Zooey — May 29, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
I wonder where that sort of vile filth comes from?
From the 1960s, actually. The men who are in power today all have been around 25 years or more, in one high government capacity or another. Their mentor was Leo Strauss teaching in The University of Chicago. Wolfowitz, for one, learned from him. As Digg pointed out, Ledeen was very active in the 80s Iran Contra affair. Until the cancer of the “right” became stage 4, with W, no one paid attention. Ronnie and Bush 1 had all these guys in their administrations and the public snoozed on.
This is why I have been yelling (here especially) about Plan A being the only plan. It really is about total control of the ME and only about oil secondarily (but importantly). I wrote a response yesterday listing a lot of the successes the neocons have made. It is astonishing how much they have achieved in the last 30 years. Take a look at that post #82 on the Kristol thread.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pm“America must topple the regimes of the terror masters to eliminate the threat of terrorism.â€
mmmmm…I guess trolls that fear jihadists chanting “Dead to America” wont bother questioning this right wing tool chanting “Invade everyone suspect”.
BTW, Merlin about your Strauss post. You are on the money.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:22 pmPiece of shit has blood on his hands.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pmThis is why I have been yelling (here especially) about Plan A being the only plan. It really is about total control of the ME and only about oil secondarily (but importantly). I wrote a response yesterday listing a lot of the successes the neocons have made. It is astonishing how much they have achieved in the last 30 years. Take a look at that post #82 on the Kristol thread.
Comment by Merlin
So essentially the attacks on 9/11 were the cherry on top of the ice cream?
May 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pmRingo write, “I did. I linked to the entire wiki-article.” No, you posted a cropped section of the article AND linked to the article.
“It also does not change the fact that…”
It changes the “fact” you asserted about Phelps being a Gore supporter from “true” to “false.” Among some of us, though not you, apparently, that’s a rather important distinction.
“Can you imagine if any Republican had similar ties ties to Fred Phelps?” No, I cannot imagine any Republicans turning against a political activist becasue he was violently homophobic.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pmwhat a bastard….a turd
May 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pmAmerica must topple the regimes of the terror masters to eliminate the threat of terrorism.â€
America’s regime must be toppled….McVeigh was right
May 29th, 2007 at 4:43 pm“Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”
- Michael Ledeen. resident scholar in the “Freedom Chair” at the American Enterprise Institute
“At the American Enterprise Institute some of the finest minds in our nation are at work on some of the greatest challenges to our nation. You do such good work that my administration has borrowed 20 such minds. I want to thank them for their service, but I also want to remind people that for 60 years, AEI scholars have made vital contributions to our country and to our government, and we are grateful for those contributions”
May 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm- “President Discusses the Future of Iraq”. February 26, 2003
More right wing hate from the folks who call themselves Christians. I call them false Christians and I am sure higher powers than I will do the same when they drop dead.
May 29th, 2007 at 4:58 pm“Cindy Sheehan announced on Ed Shultz show she may come back . . .”
Flip-flop.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:03 pmTake him out.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:16 pmComment by Zooey — May 29, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
So essentially the attacks on 9/11 were the cherry on top of the ice cream?
You got it! They stated before 9/11 that unless a pearl Harbor like event happened it would take perhaps a generation to achieve their goals (Plan A). That event happened; they were prepared for it and proceded pell mell to put their Plan into motion.
To me the really scary part now is how the close the DLC is to the neocon foreign policy ideology. Nobody pays attention that the Clintons are that ideology and Hillary is running for president right now. It is to escape the public’s understanding that she is triangulating so much on her Iraq stance. If you aren’t familiar with the DLC ideology check out Wiki.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:18 pm#83 Comment by Jake — May 29, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
“Cindy Sheehan announced on Ed Shultz show she may come back . . .â€
Flip-flop.
When more unfeeling people are born to be, they’ll form a line in back of thee.
It takes someone who’s soul is dead to say what you have here. Mark Twain had you pegged Jake. “Died at 30, buried at 60,” is how he put it. Just so you know, you are truly beginning to stink and the stench from your posts is awful.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:26 pm#80 Comment by dig deep — May 29, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
Great juxtaposition of quotes here, and a powerful statement as well.
Thanks again for your continued posts. Spot on!
May 29th, 2007 at 5:30 pmExcellent post Merlin.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:58 pmThese bastards are not afraid to put in writing any of their projected schemes, strategies, pornographic fantasies (Libby’s Japanese caged bear), or their preferred modus operandi.
We have the PNAC declarations (New Pearl Harbour) and a host of other incriminating evidence of their treason, yet they still get away with mass murder.
With some exceptions (Chimpy, Gonzales, Miers etc.) there are many who one must admit have a high level of intellectual capacity. These are not stupid in the way that the imbecile commander guy is stupid. These are cold, calculating and clever operators, whose hubris has overcome their common sense that would have kept their evil designs under wraps, away from the eyes of the observant true patriots. They are showing us all that we are powerless, rubbing our noses in the shit that they publish.
It is high time that the good men do something.
In clearing the shit out of the pigsty I fear that many will have to pay the ultimate price, but as thousands have just paid that price for the lies of these treasonous PNAC, AIPAC, Israeli firsters, there is no alternative.
The enemy is domestic and foreign, DC/Israel.
As Sharon to Peres stated 3 October 2001: ” Don’t worry, we control America”. (IAP News).
The cleaning process is likely to be a much bloodier affair than the first civil war, but if the patient is to be saved, then all the cancer has to be cut out, all of it.
You’re missing one other thing about Ledeen’s original post, which is even though he claims the email relates to a “recent” funeral, that story has been going around the internet since at least 2003. Google it if you don’t believe me.
May 29th, 2007 at 6:02 pmYou got it! They stated before 9/11 that unless a pearl Harbor like event happened it would take perhaps a generation to achieve their goals (Plan A). That event happened; they were prepared for it and proceded pell mell to put their Plan into motion.
Comment by Merlin
I knew they were evil, but I never realized just how evil they really are.
Thanks, Merlin.
May 29th, 2007 at 6:27 pmIt takes someone who’s soul is dead to say what you have here. Mark Twain had you pegged Jake. “Died at 30, buried at 60,†is how he put it. Just so you know, you are truly beginning to stink and the stench from your posts is awful.
Comment by Merlin
Perfect. I’ll remember that one.
May 29th, 2007 at 6:28 pm#87 Comment by MrChuca — May 29, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
Excellent post Merlin.
Thanks! we are all here in this together to learn from each other. I have learned a lot from you good folks here, and I always hope that my contributions are helpful and worthwhile.
May 29th, 2007 at 6:53 pmThis is cross posted from another thread. I thought it important to post it here as well.
If anyone is interested in reading Cindy Sheehan’s blog entry at DailyKos yesterday, here is the URL:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/28/12530/1525
As of now there have been 1255 responses in the comments section. The response is 100% positive, understanding and empathetic. I read several hundred posts and found the experience very uplifting. Cindy is suffering a common reaction called “Burnout.†She needs rest and time out which she will get. I predict she will return to the fight again in her own way in the future.
Comment by Merlin — May 29, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
May 29th, 2007 at 6:57 pmMerlin:
I’m 75. I will agree with Mother Sheehan on one point though: the Democrats in Congress are useless.
May 29th, 2007 at 7:14 pmSome quotes: “Stability is an unworthy American mission, and a misleading concept to boot. We do not want stability in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and even Saudi Arabia; we want things to change. The real issue is not whether, but how to destabilize.†[Wall Street Journal, 9/4/2002]
May 29th, 2007 at 7:14 pm“No stages. This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there. All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq … this is entirely the wrong way to go about it. If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely and we don’t try to piece together clever diplomacy, but just wage a total war … our children will sing great songs about us years from now.†[American Enterprise Institute, 10/29/2001]
Some more quotes:
“‘I now know [Bush is] sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,’ Cindy said after their meeting. ‘I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith,’ ” and, “For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again. ‘That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,’ Cindy said.”
“We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now.â€
“We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog sh** in Washington, we will impeach all those people.â€
“We began the killing as soon as we stepped foot on these shores [of America] and the killing has gone on unabated for over 200 years.”
“There has always been excuses for wars, but NONE of them have been good or valid.”
“Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel.”
“My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel.”
“Another thing that I’m doing is – - my son was killed in 2004, so I’m not paying my taxes for 2004. If I get a letter from the IRS, I’m gonna say, you know what, this war is illegal; this is why this war is illegal. This war is immoral; this is why this war is immoral. You killed my son for this. I don’t owe you anything. And if I live to be a million, I won’t owe you a penny.”
“And I want them to come after me, because unlike what you’ve been doing with the war resistance, I want to put this frickin’ war on trial. And I want to say, ‘You give me my son, and I’ll pay your taxes.’”
“I DEFINITELY think that we should support war resisters in the military. ”
“I know several people who are being court-martialed, and they need support–they need monetary support, they need our moral support, and they need to know that we’re with them.”
“We need to encourage more people to do this. ”
“I have been silent on the Gold Star Moms who still support this man and his war by saying that they deserve the right to their opinions because they are in as much pain as I am. I would challenge them, though, at this point to start thinking for themselves… I am starting to lose a little compassion for them. I know they have been as brainwashed as the rest of America, but they know the pain and heartache and they should not wish it on another. However, I still feel their pain so acutely and pray for these “continue the murder and mayhem” moms to see the light.”
May 29th, 2007 at 7:30 pmI’m 75. I will agree with Mother Sheehan on one point though: the Democrats in Congress are useless. Comment by Jake — May 29, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
I prefer “useless” over Criminal, Corrupt and Inept any day. All of which describe YOU perfectly – you hateful st*pid old piece of sh*t.
May 29th, 2007 at 8:02 pmYou got it! They stated before 9/11 that unless a pearl Harbor like event happened it would take perhaps a generation to achieve their goals (Plan A). That event happened; they were prepared for it and proceded pell mell to put their Plan into motion.
Comment by Merlin
I knew they were evil, but I never realized just how evil they really are.
Thanks, Merlin.
Comment by Zooey
Gosh, what an extraordinary coincidence
May 29th, 2007 at 8:08 pmsorry my italics didn’t seem to work above.
May 29th, 2007 at 8:09 pm#39
Gore Jr. started out like his poppy, who tried to block Civil Rights.
That’s the kind of person he was then, and the kind of person he is now.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:15 pmOk everyone, pull your panties out of your ass cracks and use your cerebral cortexes.
How many people actually listen to anything these guys have to say anymore? I don’t care if Limbaugh or Hannity or Rove starts using this ballsack’s talking points—NO BODY OUTSIDE OF THE PATHETIC 28% IS LISTENING TO THEM ANYMORE.
The party’s over folks. The party’s over.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:25 pmhey Ledeen- you NeoCONS are SCUM- been forging any letters on Embassy of Niger (stolen) stationary lately?
scumbag.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:01 pmBTW, Merlin about your Strauss post. You are on the money.
Comment by Juan C
—-
I love it. Everytime I see the word Strauss or GWF Hegel (Strauss mentor love daddy) it’s music to my ears. The Neocon’s really hate it when the blogs talk about these two abominations to this world. The Straussians (Neocons) only want one thing and that is pure one world order. Where Liberals would be enslaved, tortured, and killed. I’m not kidding. This is what these people truly believe and will not stop. I realize that to most people it’s hard to understand how or why, and then rationalize it as crazy talk. But it isn’t. These people openly write about it.
I wrote a couple of days ago about the Freemasons Child Identification Program (The RFID/chipping of children) that is going live internationally through this organization. Some people in this group couldn’t believe it was me? How could I believe such “conspiracy theories?”. My name must have been jacked and some imposter writing this stuff….No. Google: “Freemasons Child Identification Program” Chipping people is a precursor to human bondage, and what your seeing here is it’s infancy. Anyway, this is just a very small blip in a much bigger picture.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:02 pmNO BODY OUTSIDE OF THE PATHETIC 28% IS LISTENING TO THEM ANYMORE.
He’s at 39% now.
http://www.rasmussenresearch.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm
May 29th, 2007 at 10:03 pmComment by m12
…weighted average…
…goes to?
May 29th, 2007 at 10:26 pmI’m just glad Cindy Sheehan and Rosie O’Donnell are BOTH gone.
Comment by Jake
Many of us will be even more glad when you are gone, Jake-ass.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:09 amGoogle: LOVING GOD’S HATE, an expose on Fred Phelps by the Topeka Capitol-Journal, Phelps’ hometown newspaper.
Some of the many shocking revelations: several of Phelps’ estranged children have publicly asserted they were severely and frequently abused by Phelps; the details of Phelps’ disbarment by the Kansas Supreme Court and the Federal Courts for repeated ethics violations; the details of a successful lawsuit against Phelps by a candy vendor who was owed more than $5,000 by Phelps. The report further states the Phelps children were made to sell the candy door-to-door until late into the evening and in bad weather.
Despite many of Phelps’ children being attorneys, and despite the fact this information has been on the Topeka Capitol-Journal website for many years, Phelps has never sued for libel.
I would never vote for any candidate that accepted or sought help from Phelps. If a candidate is so lazy he didn’t know Phelps’ background, he doesn’t deserve elected office. On the other hand, if a candidate knew Phelps’ background and accepted Phelps’ help, that candidate is totally immoral, and deserves public censor.
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:46 am