The origin of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques.’
The origin of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques.’
Nazi Germany. Andrew Sullivan adds:
Critics will no doubt say I am accusing the Bush administration of being Hitler. I’m not. There is no comparison between the political system in Germany in 1937 and the U.S. in 2007. What I am reporting is a simple empirical fact: the interrogation methods approved and defended by this president are not new. Many have been used in the past. The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn’t-somehow-torture - “enhanced interrogation techniques” - is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.
UPDATE: A group of experts advising the intelligence agencies on interrogation techniques are arguing that “the harsh techniques used since the 2001 terrorist attacks are outmoded, amateurish and unreliable.”
The psychologists and other specialists, commissioned by the Intelligence Science Board, make the case that more than five years after the Sept. 11 attacks, the Bush administration has yet to create an elite corps of interrogators trained to glean secrets from terrorism suspects.
While billions are spent each year to upgrade satellites and other high-tech spy machinery, the experts say, interrogation methods — possibly the most important source of information on groups like Al Qaeda — are a hodgepodge that date from the 1950s, or are modeled on old Soviet practices.
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74 Responses to “The origin of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques.’”
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Troll frenzy in 3, 2, 1….
May 29th, 2007 at 9:49 pmOK, I’ll do it; the BushCo administration is like Hitler.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:51 pmwell, good on you, andrew…
but there are plenty of OTHER comparisons to be made “between the political system in Germany in 1937 and the U.S. in 2007″…
May 29th, 2007 at 9:52 pm…
It’s funny how Andrew Sullivan bends over backwards to try to claim that he’s not calling Chimpy & Co. Nazis, even as he’s calling them Nazis. I guess an admission of this magnitude needs to be done in stages.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:53 pmDon’cha just LOVE the way EVERYBODY…
…says things…
…without REALLY “saying” them?
…equivocation, parsing and double-speak…
…breakfast of the political cognoscenti…
May 29th, 2007 at 9:58 pmenhanced interrogation=vee have vays to make you talk
May 29th, 2007 at 10:00 pmTimes change.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:01 pmWhat made Andrew Sullivan go sour on the King?
May 29th, 2007 at 10:02 pmShrill. Very shrill.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:04 pmTimes change.
Comment by m12 — May 29, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
WWJD?
May 29th, 2007 at 10:08 pmWhat made Andrew Sullivan go sour on the King?
Comment by Zooey #8
…unh unh…
What made Andrew Sullivan…
…or ANY gay individual…
…a “Log Cabin repulsivescum”?
May 29th, 2007 at 10:13 pmm12 sez:
I’m sure that’s how the Nazis tried to justify their behavior to themselves as well.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:14 pmHey, it is the Bushtapo.
Nice work Chimpy and the Gimp. Trashing America and making us less safe and making US troops more likely to be tortured themselves.
Asschappers.
-GSD
May 29th, 2007 at 10:18 pmFor some reason, I cannot fathom, this makes me sick.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:19 pmTimes change.
Comment by m12 — May 29, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
Sometimes swiftly, too. I will give you an example to chew on: in 1942 the Nazis ruled the roost, able to murder and torture at will. Within 5 years many of them were hung for their crimes against humanity.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:19 pm…okay, I was right again…I called “crimes against humanity” and “war crimes” on Bush before anybody else (not that I can prove I did). Can I have a job as a pundit now?
I wonder what the end will look like in the Cheney bunker? Dick will probably shoot everybody in the face with a duck gun, and then pop the cyanide capsule(s) he’s had surgically emplanted in his jowels. Maybe it’ll be on YouTube.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:28 pmIn God we trust = Gott mit uns
May 29th, 2007 at 10:33 pmIf the shoe fits, wear it, Mr. President, you jackass.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:34 pmNo comparison? Better you should say, in what way do Nazi Germany and the Bushites differ.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:35 pmWhat made Andrew Sullivan…
…or ANY gay individual…
…a “Log Cabin repulsivescum�
Comment by big papa
Good point, big papa.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:37 pmNazi’s also treated the disabled and elderly with little regard. Again fact. America is bordering on treating its disabled and elderly in the same manner all while saying that it is ” helping”. Think about it. It’s way too many references lately to Nazi’s.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:38 pmLiz, if the brownshirt fits, then the Busheviks should wear it…
May 29th, 2007 at 10:39 pm#10
Separation of church and state, right? Nobody needs to know what J thinks of interrogation techniques.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:51 pmI’m sure that’s how the Nazis tried to justify their behavior to themselves as well.
Germany was not attacked, as we were on 911.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:52 pmGermany was not attacked, as we were on 911.
Comment by m12
Still no justification, ya frickin’ tosser.
May 29th, 2007 at 10:55 pmJustification for what?
May 29th, 2007 at 10:57 pmm12 sez:
Sure they were. Poland tried to invade.
(At least, that’s the excuse they offered…)
And did Iraq attack us?
May 29th, 2007 at 11:02 pmGermany was not attacked, as we were on 911.
Comment by m12
the reichstag fire was their 911. don’t go there.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:04 pmJustification for what?
Comment by m12
TORTURE! The topic of this thread.
What are you talking about, idiot?
May 29th, 2007 at 11:05 pmSo the 9-11 attacks justify the United States abandoning the rule of law and commencing indiscriminate torture? Looks like Osama has already won.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:06 pmAndrew Sullivan has done his part referring to a:
“decadent left in its enclaves on the coasts [that] is not dead–and may well mount a fifth column.”
Thanks Andy, so was it when Bush ‘came for the homosexuals’ in 2004 that you decided to change sides?
May 29th, 2007 at 11:10 pm#27
They didn’t have to. Being in league with the radical islamic fundamentalists who attacked us, they needed to be dealt with appropriately.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:10 pmSo the 9-11 attacks justify the United States abandoning the rule of law and commencing indiscriminate torture? Looks like Osama has already won.
Nobody’s torturing anybody on our side. We don’t cut tongues our, behead people, or beat them like the Japs did back then and the Islamic terrorists are now.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pmNobody needs to know what J thinks of interrogation techniques.
Comment by m12
You support torture, which is expressly violates US and International Laws.
The penalty is up to 20 years, Death Penalty if someone dies under torture. The US Law includes a clause to cover crimes not on US Soilas well as domestic cases. It is also the Death Penalty in International Law. The US is a signatory of the Geneva Convention, Which by the Constitution binds that Law as US Law.
You support Criminals. Period.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:14 pmHow discreet of the expert panel to say America’s enhanced interrogation techniques were modeled on an old Soviet method. I suppose if you want to avoid comparing Bush to Hitler, Stalin will do.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:17 pmhttp://abcnews.go.com/ WNT/ Investigation/ story?id=1322866
Looks like the CIA made them listen to Enimen’s ‘Slim Shady’!
Must be torture indeed, how cruel!
May 29th, 2007 at 11:20 pmm12 sez:
“In league”? Thanks for confirming your idiocy.
Saddam’s regime was not even on speaking terms with radical Islamic fundamentalism. Under his rule, the more secular Sunni majority brutally oppressed the more fundamental Shiite majority. For you to claim that Saddam’s Iraq was “in league” with radical Islamic fundamentalism betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the basic facts of the region, and demonstrates quite convincingly that you need not be taken seriously.
Next time you try to troll, at least obtain a grade-school understanding of the subject at hand. Kthx.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:21 pmThey didn’t have to. Being in league with the radical islamic fundamentalists who attacked us, they needed to be dealt with appropriately.
Comment by m12 — May 29, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
Prove it. Where’s your evidence?
Nobody’s torturing anybody on our side. We don’t cut tongues our, behead people, or beat them like the Japs did back then and the Islamic terrorists are now.
Comment by m12 — May 29, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
Wrong again m12. The current American standard is that provided no body organs are destroyed - it is NOT considered torture.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 1/ hi/ world/ middle_east/ 4718328.stm
If you can explain to me how over 30 people have died in American custody since 2004, then go ahead….
May 29th, 2007 at 11:22 pmfrom New Yorker article on torture and GC:
At the meeting, Cochran demanded to know what the interrogators would do if they faced the imminent threat of a nuclear blast in New York City, and had custody of a suspect who knew how to stop it. One interrogator said that he would apply physical coercion only if he received a personal directive from the President. But Navarro, who estimates that he has conducted some twelve thousand interrogations, replied that torture was not an effective response. “These are very determined people, and they won’t turn just because you pull a fingernail out,†he told me. And Finnegan argued that torturing fanatical Islamist terrorists is particularly pointless. “They almost welcome torture,†he said. “They expect it. They want to be martyred.†A ticking time bomb, he pointed out, would make a suspect only more unwilling to talk. “They know if they can simply hold out several hours, all the more glory—the ticking time bomb will go off!â€
http://www.newyorker.com/ reporting/ 2007/ 02/ 19/ 070219fa_fact_mayer?printable=true
May 29th, 2007 at 11:22 pmOff topic, but interesting: Anyone remember that guy from that cave? You know Bin Laden that guy that mastermind the 9/11 attacks? That guy that Bush does the Texas two step all around, and Cheney swear’s if he could just find those WMD’s, Bin Laden will be close by? Well this is interesting. Has anyone every gone to the FBI website to look at the Bin Laden wanted poster? Take a look and tell me whats missing?
http://www.fbi.gov/ wanted/ terrorists/ terbinladen.htm
May 29th, 2007 at 11:23 pm#34
They aren’t criminals. They are the best and brightest we have, serving our nation. We should give intelligence experts leeway into their tactics rather than burden them with political bureaucracy.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:28 pm“We should give intelligence experts leeway into their tactics rather than burden them with political bureaucracy” - m12
What you are calling “political bureaucracy” (the Geneva Conventions) is the supreme Law of the Land acc. to Article VI of the U.S. Constitution.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:33 pmComment by JTitor — May 29, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Er, ‘wanted in connection with 9-11′? Strange. Perhaps the FBI are just being anally retentive by not referring to it without ‘probable cause’ or some other legal aspect?
May 29th, 2007 at 11:34 pmThey aren’t criminals.
Comment by m12
If they torture, they broke the Law, Felonies at that, so they are criminals. Period.
Give it your best shot, with your demented logic and Prove Different. Or remain looking like a Moron.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:35 pmOr remain looking like a Moron.
Comment by Wayne
More like a Demented F*ck.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:38 pmRepublican Party: The party of death and torture.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:41 pmAnd of course the irony of the Iraqi abuses of prisoners is that 70-90% of them were arrested ‘by mistake’ before they were subjected to ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’. Want to guess where the insurgency gets its strength from? The last line:
“Many persons deprived of their liberty drew parallels between police practices under the occupation with those of the former regime,”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-04.htm
May 29th, 2007 at 11:42 pmWell looks like m12 has gone to choke his chicken to this week’s episode of ‘24′
May 29th, 2007 at 11:43 pmMore like a Demented F*ck.
Comment by Zooey
That too, heh.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:43 pmThis insightful interview with Karl Rove reveals something that explains everything. Rove says that Bush is always keen on trying something new, pushing the envelope. In Rove’s case that means his agenda of politicisation of all Government branches goes to new extremes. That is why Bush pushes the warrantless wiretapping - as way of ‘taking it to the next level’. Look at his reaction to Iraq, more troops, more money, more time, more, more, more. So here is “pushing the envelope” by trying harsher torture techniques. Nevermind that all of these things have proven to be unethical and counterproductive.
Poor George.
All he is really doing is promoting recklessness and refusing to have any accountability for it.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:45 pmhttp://www.tomharkin.com/nl/CloseGitmo.htm
As you know, I have long fought to end human rights abuses around the world. In 1970 when I was a young congressional staffer on a fact-finding trip to Vietnam, I helped to discover so-called tiger cages at Con Son Island. In these tiger cages Viet Cong and North Vietnamese prisoners, as well as civilian opponents of the war, were being held, tortured and killed with the full sanction of the U.S. Government.
I stood up then, just as I am standing up now, to bring an end to human rights abuses. Will you stand with me, the ACLU, Amnesty International, Human Rights First and Human Rights Watch by signing my petition to close Guantanamo Bay in 120 days?
Click here to sign my petition with the ACLU today and help to close Guantanamo Bay in 120 days.
Thank you for your support.
https://secure.aclu.org/ site/ Advocacy?pagename=homepage&id=653&page=UserAction
Help Close Guantanamo and End Indefinite Detention Without Charges
Senator Harkin recently introduced the Guantanamo Bay Detention Facility Closure Act of 2007 (S. 1469), which would close the Guantanamo Bay prison within 120 days of enactment and end the practice of indefinite detention without charge for hundreds of detainees, among other steps to restore the Constitution.
The prison at Guantanamo is damaging American values and our reputation in the eyes of our enemies and allies alike. It’s time to end indefinite detention without charges and shut down Guantanamo.
Please contact your senators right now and ask them to co-sponsor Senator Harkin’s bill to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:50 pmm12, how do you know your side isn’t torturing? Why do you have secret prisons? Why are the comments of prisoners enumerating their torture by Americans redacted? Why have so many died?
It is torture. And you started it. The Shah of Iran’s secret police were trained by the CIA. Yes, the old CIA has a nifty torture manual. It’s been the American Way for 50 years.
You just can’t handle the Truth. You prefer to give the torturers leeway and pray they don’t come for you. And, if they did come for you, I have news for you: You would confess to everything. That’s the way torture works. All those witches confessed during the Inquistion: Why? Either they were witches or they were lying.
May 29th, 2007 at 11:50 pm21.Nazi’s also treated the disabled and elderly with little regard. Again fact. America is bordering on treating its disabled and elderly in the same manner all while saying that it is †helpingâ€.
liz
And don’t forget to add to this list the TROOPS! They are being denied their services, lacking services and having limited services available. Their medical reports are being altered to deny them benefits.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:01 amYou would confess to everything. That’s the way torture works. All those witches confessed during the Inquistion: Why? Either they were witches or they were lying.
Comment by david
the original “waterboarding” was in the Inquisition called the “Dunking Stool”. The accused witch was tied to the device and submerged in water for up to 10 minutes at a time.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:02 amIf they lived, they were burned at the stake as a witch.
If they died, they were inocent, but just as dead.
m12 seems to have fled…..
May 30th, 2007 at 12:03 amj titor said:
“Take a look and tell me whats missing?”
Wow. No mention of 9/11!
May 30th, 2007 at 12:10 amButt-nuggets like m12 are only here to cause crap. Point the little peckerwood to links regarding documented torture:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140012006
And call it a day. Anybody in this day and age after seeing the photos at Abu Ghraib, and still doesn’t believe? That person is either really stupid, or yanking your chain.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:16 amComment by Ginko — Ding..ding..ding. Sir! Your the winner. What’s up with that?
May 30th, 2007 at 12:17 amWow. No mention of 9/11!
Comment by Ginko
Yeppers. Osama Bin Forgotten is not wanted by US Law Enforcement for 9/11.
Isn’t that some freaking wild chit??
May 30th, 2007 at 12:19 am“They know if they can simply hold out several hours, all the more glory—the ticking time bomb will go off!”
It’s even worse than that. They can, and indeed likely will, talk, giving out false information — information that takes precious resources and time while the authorities track down every lead provided. The FBI, in fact, has noted this about the information received from Guantanamo. It’s low-quality information that has cost them more than it has gained them.
We’ve also seen it in the inflation of the importance of several of the suspects. When the truth finally comes out, you ultimately realize that many of these are just low-level functionaries that the Bush administration is desperately trying to pass off as ringleaders in order to justify their treatment.
And that’s not even getting into the majority of people at Guantanamo and elsewhere who are completely and totally innocent but who are still tortured and even killed as a result of these tactics.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:25 amThe CIA consulted with Israel, Saudi Arabia & Egypt on how best to torture Arabs and Muslims. From the NY Times article:
A. B. Krongard, who was the executive director of the C.I.A., the No. 3 post at the agency, from 2001 to 2004, agreed with that assessment but acknowledged that the agency had to create an interrogation program from scratch in 2002.
He said officers quickly consulted counterparts in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel and other countries to compile a “catalog†of techniques said to be effective against Arab and Muslim prisoners.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:34 amComment by Wayne — It gets stranger: — Osama bin Laden,
May 30th, 2007 at 12:34 amquoted in CBS News, “Bin Laden: I Didn’t Do It” (September 12, 2001).
TP why don’t you run this tomorrow? Why isn’t Bin Laden wanted for 9/11?
Check this link out.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:38 amhttp://www.twf.org/News/Y2006/0608-BinLaden.html
This is freak’n amazing. The FBI’s response is:
When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on the FBI’s web page, Rex Tomb, the FBI’s Chief of Investigative Publicity, is reported to have said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
May 30th, 2007 at 12:40 am“Interrogation methods — possibly the most important source of information on groups like Al Qaeda — are a hodgepodge that date from the 1950s, or are modeled on old Soviet practices?â€
“The origin of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’… Nazi Germany?â€
“The very phrase used by the president to describe torture-that-isn’t-somehow-torture - “enhanced interrogation techniques†- is a term originally coined by the Nazis. The techniques are indistinguishable. The methods were clearly understood in 1948 as war-crimes. The punishment for them was death.â€
Well, how’s about this folks: SCHOOLS OF THE AMERICAS. Nazis Smazi, it’s homegrown, kids. As for George W. Bush, we don’t need to go to Germany. It’s his fault and he should be held accountable LIKE A STINKING ROTTEN NAZI.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:44 amAuthoritarian regimes like the Bush presidency tend to favor torturing people. Torture is an outgrowth of fascism and militarism.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:10 amComment by Wayne — It gets stranger: — Osama bin Laden,
quoted in CBS News, “Bin Laden: I Didn’t Do It†(September 12, 2001).
Comment by JTitor
Don’t get me wrong, but Bin Laden is wanted for the US Cole bombing. Same crime Clinton was after him for.
The Taliban and AlQaeda need to be taken down, and tried.
Iraq is NOT a valid war action.But, Afghanistan needed to happen.
It was a criminal regime. One Ronnie Raygun helped create, that turned rogue. So….. We are responsible for the monsters we create and the murders that were carried out by Bin Ladin needed to be reconned with, even if 9/11 was not part of that.
Like putting down a junkyard dog that went feral in town.
IMHO.
/disclaimer: my exp in the military may color my opinion on taking down real terrorists.
That said. We also need a Real Investigation in the Criminal Case of “9/11″. Too many loose ends and no official investigation with any substance.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:26 amto add to the Cole, there was also the 1998 United States embassy bombings.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:34 amhttp://www.counterpunch.org/madsen05102004.html
According to a political appointee within the Bush administration and U.S. intelligence sources, the interrogators at Abu Ghraib included a number of Arabic-speaking Israelis who also helped U.S. interrogators develop the “R2I” (Resistance to Interrogation) techniques. Many of the torture methods were developed by the Israelis over many years of interrogating Arab prisoners on the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:00 am“The punishment for them was death.”
hmm… Nuremberg II?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:40 am#44
Nobody is torturing anybody. Enhanced interrogation is only enhanced interrogation, not torture.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:25 am#57
A few accidents happen here and there. To err is human.
But we should not change our essential policies safeguarding Americans from terrorist strikes based on the ACLU!
May 30th, 2007 at 10:31 ampoor, desperate andrew. he keeps looking for something he has said to be correct. he keeps coming up empty.
and yet, he is still quoted? why? there is only room for “pundits” on video tape, showing all that wish to see just how they felt. Since the people of this country are so damn stupid, maybe a constant video feed showing how full of shit they are would be a more appropriate counter to their reactive natures?
May 30th, 2007 at 10:57 amAndrew Sullivan is a closeted lefty. You can come out now Andy.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:54 pm