Pentagon ‘Migrated’ Soviet Cold War Torture Techniques to Guantanamo, Iraq
Pentagon ‘Migrated’ Soviet Cold War Torture Techniques to Guantanamo, Iraq
Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE) is a program designed to train U.S. soldiers to withstand torture if they are ever captured as prisoners of war. Developed during the Cold War, U.S. solders are subjected to techniques based “on how the Soviet Union and its allies were believed to treat prisoners,” including “prolonged use of stress positions, exposure to heat and cold, sleep deprivation and even waterboarding.”
A recently declassified investigation from the Department of Defense’s Inspector General confirms “how the military training was ‘reverse engineered‘ for use by American interrogators,” training interrogators on more “effective” ways to elicit information:
Counterresistance techniques were introduced because personnel believed that interrogation methods used were no longer effective in obtaining useful information from some detainees. … On at least two occasions, the JTF-170 (interrogators) requested that Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (the agency conducting SERE training) instructors be sent to Guantanamo to instruct interrogators in SERE counterresistance interrogation techniques.
Those “counterresistance” techniques also migrated to Iraq, again at the orders of military officials:
The Joint Personnel Recovery Agency was also responsible for the migration of counterresistance interrogation techniques into the U.S. Central Command’s area of responsibility. In September 2003, at the request of the Commander. … Joint Personnel Recovery Agency sent an interrogation assessment team to Iraq to provide advice and assistance to the task force interrogation mission.
Because the techniques were so extreme, several intelligence officers “vehemently objected to the use of the techniques, but their protests were ignored.” The report notes:
SERE team members and TF-20 staff disagreed about whether SERE techniques were in compliance with the Geneva Conventions. When it became apparent that friction was developing, the decision was made to pull the team out before more damage was done to the relationship between the two organizations. The SERE team members prepared After Action Reports that detailed the confusion and allegations of abuse that took place during the deployment. These reports were not forwarded to the U.S. Joint Forces Command.
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) said he found the Pentagon report “very troubling” would hold hearings on how the SERE training methods “migrated” into Iraq and Guantanamo as the basis for interrogation. “They were put to a purpose that was never intended,” he said.
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Defense lawyers for terrorists.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:17 pmhard to believe this kind of thing goes on….well, sometimes. This is totally repugnant to what the US is supposed to stand for - peace, liberty and prosperity.
But, this has been the way of war lovers for generations. No reason, I guess, for American politicians to be any different.
There’s absolutely nothing morally acceptable about torture, and there’s nothing in the constitution which authorizes it.
some additional reading:
“Should the US Military be Allowed to Use Torture?”
May 31st, 2007 at 4:23 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/ should_the_u_s__military_be_allowed_to_use_torture
Has anyone noticed that we are using more and more of the tactics that the Soviet Union used during the Cold War to keep democracy out of the USSR??
Even in the name of protecting the United States, facism is facism.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:24 pmAmerica is put to shame.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:24 pm“prolonged use of stress positions, exposure to heat and cold, sleep deprivation and even waterboarding.â€
———————————————————–
They forgot to mention loud music.
Oh the humanity!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:25 pmAnd of course our enemies always follow the Geneva Conventions.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20919
May 31st, 2007 at 4:28 pmBig woop. NOTHING will be done about it other than make liberals aware of this heinous reality we snuggle up to on our blogs every day.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:33 pmP*** off Ringo, you talentless bastard.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:33 pmVERY COOL. Russia is finally exporting something we can use. Interesting how their techniques still keep terrorism in check. Islamic terrorism is fought with equal violence in Russia and why does Russia have the upper hand? Because they have the more powerful stick. Let’s export liberal pussyism in exchange for more effective techniques. There seems to be no end of that resource on this consipiracy-laden website.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:34 pmthey didn’t have to “migrate” very much… a lot of it they already know and had already exported it to latin america via the school of the americas and operation condor… plus, all they had to do was revisit the history of nazi germany if they needed any refresher courses…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
May 31st, 2007 at 4:35 pmGringo,
Don’t give us that shit about our enemies.
The point is that America’s job is to lead by example
May 31st, 2007 at 4:35 pmhey ringo
cease with your stupid, innane KINDERGARTEN defense of “they do it so why can’t we”
you are a complete idiot
May 31st, 2007 at 4:38 pmSo the Congress will hold hearings into how these methods were adopted by U.S. interrogators? Whatever. Nothing will come out of the hearings because the Dems have no spine and don’t want to get at the real truth.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:41 pmSo ringo number 6
“and of course our enemies always follow the Geneva Conventions”
this is terrible logic. America is quickly losing any moral capital we had to lead the “Free” world. Ringo we have peers in this world that believe in the same things we believe in…peace, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. However your point is that our enemies are treating people inhumanely…but like a 3rd grader that says everyone else is cheating, so its ok for me to cheat…doesnt make it right…and more to the point, you lose valuable respect from those that matter–the people that don’t cheat (torture)…back to the point…we can no longer lead this “free” world unless we have backers…you can’t lead if no one is following.
2nd point…you can’t create a safe country that believes and wants to follow us to peace, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if you got their in un-rightous ways.
I hate your logic, I really do. I can do it because they are doing it…bush league Ringo, bush league.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:44 pmPfft. Whatever it takes.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:45 pm#5: Hah! Good point, Ringo. Can’t forget all that loud music. It’s just inhumane.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:46 pmNext thing you know we will have our own gulag system. Wait a minute…
May 31st, 2007 at 4:46 pm#6 - Ringo,
May 31st, 2007 at 4:47 pmDrop by my place sometime and I can remove a pimple-like growth from atop your shoulders with my machete. Since our enemies do it, it is perfectly okay for me to act in kind.
… ‘reverse engineered‘ …
wonder how long it took to come up with that…
May 31st, 2007 at 4:50 pm#9 - Tell that to the Russians who still get blown to bits by Chechens on a regular basis. It’s not “working for them” at all. It’s also a crime against humanity, stupid.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:52 pmI’m surprised at how many of our wingnut trolls are excited about behaving like commies. All they really need now is a uniform with red stars on it and some women and children to torture in the name of the people, uh, “freedom.” Because torturing people is how you maintain freedom, or something.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:57 pm” the techniques were so extreme”, how in the world, the suspects will tell you the truths, torture is not the answer, these people just know how to smash, smash.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:00 pmSo ringo number 6
“and of course our enemies always follow the Geneva Conventionsâ€
this is terrible logic. America is quickly losing any moral capital we had to lead the “Free†world. .
Comment by whoa_now
Which is more important survival or moral capital?
May 31st, 2007 at 5:00 pm“I’m surprised at how many of our wingnut trolls are excited about behaving like commies.”
i’m not. party before country 4ever.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:04 pm“Which is more important survival or moral capital?”
falsedilemmaville, population 1.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:06 pmHow cavalier and “sanitary†is our dialogue about the United States of America engaging in torture.
The Senator is “very troubled†and confused about “intentionsâ€.
The press is apathetic.
The Department of Defense is thrilled about its efforts to “reverse engineer†the unimaginable and convert it to “effective†(though sometimes fatal) means of extracting information.
The reality, however, is that torture, in any of its forms or aberrations, is wholly evil and is both immoral and inhumane to implement on another being. This is not an individual’s opinion, but a consensus formed of the intelligent and civilized world over the past few millennia and codified for modern purposes in the Geneva Convention treaties and international agreements.
Let’s not forget this when we speak of torture. Don’t “Foxify†it and buy into the illusion that Jack Bauer is a hero and that torture is righteous. Don’t buy into the extremists’ favorite delusional scenario of the ticking time bomb and its false logic. Under that logic, by the way, one could justify rape, or murder, or any heinous act and that alone invalidates that absurd logic.
Torture is evil and wrong, regardless of circumstance. The fact that the US now condones, promotes, and engages in torture is a crime against and an affront to our Constitution and is justification for not just impeachment, but an all out revolt by the people against its government.
With Iraq we have sanctioned, promoted, and performed genocide and murder. With our interrogation and confinement policies and practices we have sanctioned, promoted, and performed torture. This has been allowed to happen because it has been perpetrated like the proverbial boiling of the frog, slowly and methodically.
The line was drawn long ago and we are well past it. If you are not screaming bloody murder at your senators and representatives, then you might as well just put out your cigarette butt on your baby daughter’s skin before locking her in the closet for the night. Because in the end, there is no difference between your innocent baby daughter and an innocent Muslim man.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:07 pmRingo,
Drop by my place sometime and I can remove a pimple-like growth from atop your shoulders with my machete. Since our enemies do it, it is perfectly okay for me to act in kind.
Comment by WaltTheMan
Or maybe we should ship Ringo, Patrick1, Eric, MAF54, VV and all the others who think we should behave like the old Soviet Union off to Russia. Since they don’t like the way this government is run maybe they need to leave instead of dicimating this country.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:08 pmfalsedilemmaville, population 1.
Comment by pgw
You are right, terrorists don’t want to kill Americans.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:10 pmTimmy,
Well survival over the long haul is not gained by torture…it just breeds more hate. Pretty soon their isnt a moral person around to show how to lead, how to live in peace, how to love…so the answer to your question is moral capital..because you can only survice if people respect other’s freedom. Survival is not gained through torture…
Now how did this become a question between moral capital and survival? Is that how you rationalize it? you figure that if we don’t torture, we won’t get the answers we need then our enemies will have the ability to attack us without us knowing…well I have knews, torture has been proven to be useless in the knowledge game…so where does your point of survival come into play? I’m not sure.
Example for timmy everyone:
Your parents are assholes they beat you every chance they get, they degrade you, they slap you around, they show you no respect…but they do say they are doing it for your freedom and when you turn 18 they are going to set you free and you can do anything you want…do you show that same love back to them and your own children…
Your parents are loving and have a moral compass that points to north, they show the right way by example. They say you’re already free…how do you treat them then?
Timmy? answers?
Timmy
p
May 31st, 2007 at 5:12 pmHow many people would be in favor of waterboarding the man holding this soldier’s head in order to stop it from happening to more soldiers?
May 31st, 2007 at 5:13 pmForgot the link:
http://www.savage-productions.com/beheaded_soldiers_iraq.html
May 31st, 2007 at 5:13 pm#23
False Dilemma!
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/eitheror.html
May 31st, 2007 at 5:14 pm“prolonged use of stress positions, exposure to heat and cold, sleep deprivation and even waterboarding.â€
I see. These things are torture when done to our military personnel, but not torture when applied to suspected terrorists?
Trolls = bloodthirsty monsters
May 31st, 2007 at 5:17 pmnot only is torture evil and wrong, it is ineffective.
It is particularly ineffective with Islamic extremists! They welcome it but it will NOT result in the information this Nazi administration desires.
Just another example of winger incompetence. They will stoop to any level and still not accomplish their goals.
They and their supporters ARE the “axis of evil”
May 31st, 2007 at 5:19 pm“The point is that America’s job is to lead by example” Comment by Zimzone
No it’s not. The first priority of the American government is to protect it’s citizens.
Just between us - Where DID you come up with that nugget? I couldn’t find that in my pocket sized US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
“Uncomfortable” is not TORTURE….TORTURE constitutes hideous pain which often results in poor informational results - those poor bastards who suffer disembowelment, or electric drills, etc will tell an interrogator ANYTHING to stop the excruciating pain. Once again, TP (and idiots like ZimZone) defends the terror faction set on destroying America and Israel….
May 31st, 2007 at 5:20 pmSo why aren’t the Democrats pursuing this issue as if there was no tomorrow?
How can there possibly be a downside to forcing this issue?
In the recent Republican debates all of the candidates, other than John McCain, advocated the use of torture.
Do the Democrats REALLY think that there are enough Americans that support this idea that they would lose voters?
As Charlie Brown would say, “Argh!”
May 31st, 2007 at 5:20 pmTimmy:
May 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pmDon’t know if you’re old enough but if so were you totally freaked out and frightened by every teenager you saw during the 80’s “satanic worshipping” scare? What about the daycare centers are molestation mansions gig? I am sticking with moral capital for now. I think it will serve my country much better as we work our way through this current terror.
I see. These things are torture when done to our military personnel, but not torture when applied to suspected terrorists?
Trolls = bloodthirsty monsters
Comment by Zooey
Makes you glad these war-mongerin maniacs AREN’T in the military. They defile the name of the United States enough just by posting here. We don’t need their perverted senses of justice at large in the real world.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:21 pmProgs = Terrorist collaborators
Timmy - Leftards don’t get the fact that this is a war unlike anything in our history. There will be no “Peace Accord” - There will be the dead… and those left alive….period. Leftard Politics does not include anything other than abject hostility and opposition to ANYTHING conservative - They would rather die than kill our enemies…..You might wonder why I am not terribly worried about anyone in the current crop of Democrat nominees…..
May 31st, 2007 at 5:26 pm“Uncomfortable†is not TORTURE….TORTURE constitutes hideous pain which often results in poor informational results - those poor bastards who suffer disembowelment, or electric drills, etc will tell an interrogator ANYTHING to stop the excruciating pain. Once again, TP (and idiots like ZimZone) defends the terror faction set on destroying America and Israel….
Comment by valiant venus
So vagrant venom, your to be the arbiter of what is torture and what isn’t. Their is no definitive answere to what is torture and what isn’t so don’t just spew that there is some agreement on the issue. If “discomfort” is so severe that a prisoner commits suicide who are you to say it’s not torture. Your type acts like you know what your talking about when all you do is follow the prescribed party line you’ve been fed.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:30 pm#34,
A rose, by any other name, would it smell as sweet?
Torture is evil. Those who engage in torture are criminal and cowardly.
These are the facts.
All the justifications you supply for torture, your fear, your insecurity, your cowardice, those are your problems. No amount of inflicting pain on others will remove them, nor do any of your issues trump the inalienable rights bestowed upon ALL people by their creator.
And your attempts to excuse torture because it doesn’t meet some arbitrary definition that you just made up (or Gonzales or Yoo), that is so pathetic and sophomoric that only the truly intellectually feeble fall for that pathetic trash.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:31 pmO Beautiful Brilliant Valiant Venus,
Will you marry me and be my Queen of Pain?
May 31st, 2007 at 5:31 pm“We don’t need their perverted senses of justice at large in the real world.”
Comment by Shane
Shanette - Your friends John Walker Lindh, Abdul, Sami, Mohammad, Omar, et al. appreciate your defense and concern …Allah akbar!!
May 31st, 2007 at 5:33 pmInteresting how their techniques still keep terrorism in check. Islamic terrorism is fought with equal violence in Russia and why does Russia have the upper hand?
Comment by Eric — May 31, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
Umm, idiot, they don’t have the upper hand. That is why Chechnya is a bloody mess, and it isn’t the only hotspot.
What an absolute f*cking st*pid ignorant moron.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:35 pmTimmy - Leftards don’t get the fact that this is a war unlike anything in our history. There will be no “Peace Accord†- There will be the dead… and those left alive….period. Leftard Politics does not include anything other than abject hostility and opposition to ANYTHING conservative - They would rather die than kill our enemies…..You might wonder why I am not terribly worried about anyone in the current crop of Democrat nominees…..
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
And you reich wingers worship Nazi Germany and will only be happy when you lead every muslim into a gas chamber. Oh but wait, I thought you were a Jew, how do you square your fascism with Hitler’s? After all semitic is semitic. Maybe the problem isn’t just muslims, maybe its Israel and Jews too. After all, you neocons tell us how this is a Christian country, maybe everybody semitic needs to be tortured into submission.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:35 pmShanette - Your friends John Walker Lindh, Abdul, Sami, Mohammad, Omar, et al. appreciate your defense and concern …Allah akbar!!
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 5:33 pm
So valueless viper, are you Christian now or are you a Jew again. Which one is it, so we know whether to send you to Russia or Gitmo.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:37 pmLooks like the bedwetters are very active on this thread.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:38 pmSo vv, Jake was talking before about Bush starting a nuclear war and we’d have to support him. How about if he takes out Israel. That will make the muslims happy with us. After all, the end justifies the means.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:41 pmLooks like the bedwetters are very active on this thread.
Comment by VerbalKint
So are the thumb suckers-what a weak insult.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:43 pmShanette - Your friends John Walker Lindh, Abdul, Sami, Mohammad, Omar, et al. appreciate your defense and concern …Allah akbar!!
Comment by valiant venus
You claim to be a defense attorney, Mighty Liar, and yet you so easily discard everything you allegedly stand for.
Do you see why no one here will EVER believe a thing you say?
May 31st, 2007 at 5:43 pmThis article is another example of why it is not unsurprising that the U.S. was recently determined to be one of the least peaceful nations in the world. According to the Borgen Project, we can end world hunger for $19 billion, provide universal education for $12 billion, and provide global sanitation and water access for $15 billion, all mere change compared to the $522 bilion defense budget. As a nation, we need to get our priorities straight. The Millenium Development Goals have been signed, but they have yet to be acted upon. If we want to become a more peaceful nation, that’s where our money, energy, and time should be directed.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:43 pmShanette - Your friends John Walker Lindh, Abdul, Sami, Mohammad, Omar, et al. appreciate your defense and concern …Allah akbar!!
Comment by valiant venus
What’s the difference between these guys and you. Nothing. As long as your ass is safe you will destroy innocent people, no problem. They’re not my friends, and neither are you. You and your kind are working as hard to destroy our way of life as terrorists are.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:44 pmLooks like the bedwetters are very active on this thread.
Comment by VerbalKint
The bloodthirsty maniacs love the torture threads.
“It’s not torture! It’s just uncomfortable! Save me, I’m scared!”
May 31st, 2007 at 5:45 pmFalse Dilemma!
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/eitheror.html
Comment by Newt Gringo
How is this for clearing it up for you. If torture can get terrorists to talk and give info on other terrorists or plots, that saves innocent lives. Not a false dilemma. Your strawman looks to have broken a leg.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:45 pmThe problem with torture Timmy, is it makes for great scenes in movies, and tv shows, why are do so many wingnuts think the world is like a hollywood movie? A tortured person will admit to anything the torturerer wants them to. The information is often untrue, or just plan unreliable. Again This isn’t 24.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:49 pmDon’t the trolls here see the irony in justifying torture with the way captured Americans are treated by terrorists and then claiming to want to stop terrorism?
Consider the same argument between two young potential terrorists:
Person 1: We shouldn’t hurt Americans because its wrong.
Person 2: Why not? They torture us.
And so on and so on in the same direction that we are going in this very thread.
Grow up.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:50 pmWhat’s the difference between these guys and you. Nothing. As long as your ass is safe you will destroy innocent people, no problem. They’re not my friends, and neither are you. You and your kind are working as hard to destroy our way of life as terrorists are.
Comment by Shane
You and your kind are working hard to allow the terrorists to destroy our way of life.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:51 pmThe problem with torture Timmy, is it makes for great scenes in movies, and tv shows, why are do so many wingnuts think the world is like a hollywood movie? A tortured person will admit to anything the torturerer wants them to. The information is often untrue, or just plan unreliable. Again This isn’t 24.
Comment by Krazny
Have you ever seen the Brian Ross interview when he states that waterboarding has stopped nearly a dozen terrorist attacks since 9/11?
May 31st, 2007 at 5:51 pmShannette -asks (and tries to answer her own ignorant question),”What’s the difference between these guys and you. Nothing.”
Actually, I think it’s barbaric to hack peoples head off, use electric shock and drill bits on bodies, rip out fingernails etc. Thank you, for ONCE again proving what a hypsterical LIAR you are…..
May 31st, 2007 at 5:54 pm#54
Congratulations! You’ve just jumped from a False Dilemma to an Appeal to Consequences!
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adconseq.html
You’re a pathetic bore, Timmy. Either get an education or go back down the well…
May 31st, 2007 at 5:55 pmComment by Shane — May 31, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Shane,
Sami Omar al-Hussayen was acquitted of all three terrorist charges against him.
Mighty Assw*pe wouldn’t mention that, of course.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:55 pmtimmy sez:
It’s unfortunate, timmy, that torture is not a reliable means of extracting information. What torture is effective at is inducing a prisoner to give false testimony…to admit to anything the torturer wants them to admit to.
in short, torture is a terrorist generator…exactly what an administration that bases its power upon the constant threat of terrorism needs.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:56 pmsorry, vv, you have no way of proving the credibility of your previous comment.
But based on whatever you type, we have this evidence for us to agree unanimously:
Yous a ho.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:57 pmDon’t the trolls here see the irony in justifying torture with the way captured Americans are treated by terrorists and then claiming to want to stop terrorism?
Consider the same argument between two young potential terrorists:
Person 1: We shouldn’t hurt Americans because its wrong.
Person 2: Why not? They torture us.
And so on and so on in the same direction that we are going in this very thread.
Grow up.
Comment by erock
Lets see which is worse thes links:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/ archive/ years/ 2007/ 0524072torture1.html
http://www.savage-productions.com/beheaded_soldiers_iraq.html
Or waterboarding, playing loud music and forcing somebody to wear underwear on their head.
Great job comparing apples to elephants.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:59 pmIt’s unfortunate, timmy, that torture is not a reliable means of extracting information. What torture is effective at is inducing a prisoner to give false testimony…to admit to anything the torturer wants them to admit to.
in short, torture is a terrorist generator…exactly what an administration that bases its power upon the constant threat of terrorism needs.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
Have you seen the Brian Ross interview where he states that waterboarding has stopped a dozen attacks since 9/11?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:00 pmNot sure who Brian Ross is, or why I should have heard of him. Again for the mentally impoverished; if we do the same things, hack off heads, unlawful use of power tools etc we are not better then the barbarians.
So which terrorist attacks did they stop? We always here about how this or that was averted, but it seems like very little substance comes from these averted attacks.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:02 pm“I thought you were a Jew, how do you square your fascism with Hitler’s? After all semitic is semitic. Maybe the problem isn’t just muslims, maybe its Israel and Jews too.” More lunacy from Shanette
Shanette - My mother was a Jewess - my dad was Irish/Catholic. According to the Jewish religion, I am a Jew. According to the faith I choose to practice I am a Roman Catholic. I attend shabbat on Fridays with my cousins and siblings and go to Mass on Sundays.
According to your ill-conceived “logic”, you’d think IF semitic were semitic” our desert “cousins”, the Mohammaden wouldn’t want the Jews DEAD. Did you blame the Jews for Hitlers’ ethnic brainstorm “The Final Solution”, too?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:03 pmCongratulations! You’ve just jumped from a False Dilemma to an Appeal to Consequences!
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adconseq.html
You’re a pathetic bore, Timmy. Either get an education or go back down the well…
Comment by Newt Gringo
You really are not very bright. Torture has stopped attacks and continues to stop attacks. Your laymens attempts at trying to point out fallacies is quite entertaining.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:06 pmLets see which is worse thes links:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/ archive/ years/ 2007/ 0524072torture1.html
http://www.savage-productions.com/beheaded_soldiers_iraq.html
Or waterboarding, playing loud music and forcing somebody to wear underwear on their head.
Great job comparing apples to elephants.
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
Oh, and let’s not forget the 600,000+ innocent men, women, and children killed in the name of our safety. You’re right, I was comparing apples to elephants and you’re holding all the apples.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:06 pm“Don’t the trolls here see the irony in justifying torture with the way captured Americans are treated by terrorists and then claiming to want to stop terrorism?” ERock
You cannot possibly be as stupid as you pretend!! You think the Koranimals decided to stqart head-hacking and grisly torture because of Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib?? At least were able to know which side you’re on…..
May 31st, 2007 at 6:07 pmNot sure who Brian Ross is, or why I should have heard of him. Again for the mentally impoverished; if we do the same things, hack off heads, unlawful use of power tools etc we are not better then the barbarians.
So which terrorist attacks did they stop? We always here about how this or that was averted, but it seems like very little substance comes from these averted attacks.
Comment by Krazny
Look him up and listen to his interview on it. As for hacking off heads and unlawful use of powertools, those methods have not been used by the U.S. Waterboarding and not allowing them to sleep have.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:09 pmMighty Venus Hag = Self loathing woman loathes…….everything.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:10 pmOh, and let’s not forget the 600,000+ innocent men, women, and children killed in the name of our safety. You’re right, I was comparing apples to elephants and you’re holding all the apples.
Comment by erock
Great job changing the subject. What do you think of the links I gave?
Can you show where we have killed 600,000 innocent men, women and children. How many did Saddam kill before we overthrew him?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:11 pm“So which terrorist attacks did they stop? We always here about how this or that was averted, but it seems like very little substance comes from these averted attacks.” Comment by Krazny
If you read the NYT you won’t find ANY news of averted attacks, If you read the major liberal dailies, the info is buried between A-8 and A-20 - right near latest info on the totalitarian Hugo Chavez.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:11 pmYou cannot possibly be as stupid as you pretend!! You think the Koranimals decided to stqart head-hacking and grisly torture because of Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib?? At least were able to know which side you’re on…..
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
You and your compatriots have missed the point as usual. How can you expect them to stop their torture when we carry out our own?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:13 pmE-rock - IF your numbers are correct (which I doubt) how many of them were killed by their fellow “Religion Of Peace” adherents, the Koranimals?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:14 pmGreat job changing the subject. What do you think of the links I gave?
Can you show where we have killed 600,000 innocent men, women and children. How many did Saddam kill before we overthrew him?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
600000 is the U.S. estimate for civilians dead as a result of conflict in Iraq. If you’re going to bring up U.S. troops being killed, I’m going to bring up civilians that have been killed.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:16 pmE-rock - IF your numbers are correct (which I doubt) how many of them were killed by their fellow “Religion Of Peace†adherents, the Koranimals?
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
Don’t know. I do know that not nearly as many would be dead without the chaos we caused.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:17 pmYou and your compatriots have missed the point as usual. How can you expect them to stop their torture when we carry out our own?
Comment by erock
You are right, we stop waterboarding and they will say “hey the Americans stopped waterboarding and playing loud music, lets stop cutting heads off”
May 31st, 2007 at 6:19 pm600000 is the U.S. estimate for civilians dead as a result of conflict in Iraq. If you’re going to bring up U.S. troops being killed, I’m going to bring up civilians that have been killed.
Comment by erock
And how many of them were killed by the U.S. and how many were killed by the terrorists you are defending? Do you have a link for the 600,000 number?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:20 pmLook him up and listen to his interview on it. As for hacking off heads and unlawful use of powertools, those methods have not been used by the U.S. Waterboarding and not allowing them to sleep have.
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
In reference to Brian Ross, he is most likely a right wing tool such as yourself, so no real reason for me to look him up. As for the methods used, it is pretty self evident, that it doesn’t take much to go from “approved” interrogation methods, to torture. Please reference the Abu Ghraib scandal.
As for MA/VV notion of the stories being buried, since the the media often crows about any sort of terrorists caught, the gel bombers in London, and the pizza deliver assassins, I doubt that they, or this administration would not be tooting thier horn about any and all good news.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:22 pmHere’s the 600000 estimate from late 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 10/ 10/ AR2006101001442.html
I was mistaken though, our government (at that time) placed it at 30000.
So let’s average the two and say its 315000, does that make you happier?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:22 pmtimmy sez:
Well, there’s two small problems with that interview:
1) This would mark the first time in history that torture was effective in extracting reliable intel. And not just once, but a dozen times! Quite exceptional, seeing as how the techniques in use are no different than those that were used at the end of the Korean War, when SERE was first formed.
2) We have nothing but the administration’s word that these confessions were genuine. Given their track record thus far, you’ll understand if I don’t rush to accept these claims at face value.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:22 pmWhat other lessons can we learn from the Evil Empire?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:23 pmDon’t know. I do know that not nearly as many would be dead without the chaos we caused.
Comment by erock
And how many died before we came because of Saddam?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:23 pmErock - to you and all your self-loathing, self-flagellating anti-American co-citizens, your “arguments” are torturous….
Good JOB, Timmy!!!
Tooodles………….
May 31st, 2007 at 6:25 pmYou are right, we stop waterboarding and they will say “hey the Americans stopped waterboarding and playing loud music, lets stop cutting heads offâ€
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
Again, not my point. We lose the grounds to demand that they stop torturing when we torture.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:25 pmOh this is complete and utter horse shit. You should have seen what my wife does to those she disagrees with. She either has them suicided, or goes off and gets naked infront of them!
the latter is a much greater torture than anything the military can come up with. AHHH!!! why do you think I go for the young interns and not my wife?
Not to mention that during the 1990s I condoned and turned a blind eye to all this stuff. Amazing how the left never cared when I did it, but now that I am not in office, they really care.
Just like I started the rendition programs and the left never cared, they only care when a right winger does it too.
ahhh, hypocrites, people after my own heart.
Love you, my mindless sycophant followers.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:25 pmAnd how many died before we came because of Saddam?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
Roughly 300000 died in the Anfal massacre. Is this what we are really shooting for, to be not as bad as Saddam?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:26 pmHere’s the 600000 estimate from late 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 10/ 10/ AR2006101001442.html
I was mistaken though, our government (at that time) placed it at 30000.
So let’s average the two and say its 315000, does that make you happier?
Comment by erock
Thanks for the link, yes I would say a difference of 600,000 to 315,000 does make me happier. Again, we have not killed that many it has beent the terrorists you are defending with car bombs and suicide bombs. And before you say that they wouldn’t have died if we didn’t go there, please look at the mass graves from the Saddam era.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pmtimmy sez:
And how many of those were brought back to life as a result of our invasion and occupation?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pmGood JOB, Timmy!!!
Tooodles………….
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
It’s very important to be critical of one’s own government and one’s self. Without that, people wander blindly through life committing the same mistakes time and time again.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pm#
And how many died before we came because of money and technological aid Reagan gave Saddam?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
fixed your typo timmy
May 31st, 2007 at 6:29 pmYou and your compatriots have missed the point as usual. How can you expect them to stop their torture when we carry out our own?
Comment by erock
and this is the problem with my left wing followers, they believe that we are as evil as the monsters in Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, N. Korea, etc.
My silly little followers believe that if we play nice, then the terrorists will also play nice.
question for you fools, where we in Iraq on 9/11? In fact, according to my sycophant followers I was doing a great job at international relations, everyone in the world was loving us, we were being nice during the 1990s, right? Or so tell me my sycophant followers, so why 9/11 then?
9/11 was planned 5 years before it happened, it wass planned while I was in office, you all claim that the world loved us while I was in office, so why 9/11.
my sycophant followers, it is ridiculous to claim that if we treat the terrorists nice, then they will treat us nice.
only my silly, little dumb sycophant followers would believe their own horse shit.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:30 pmShannette -asks (and tries to answer her own ignorant question),â€What’s the difference between these guys and you. Nothing.â€
Actually, I think it’s barbaric to hack peoples head off, use electric shock and drill bits on bodies, rip out fingernails etc. Thank you, for ONCE again proving what a hypsterical LIAR you are…..
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
So your kind of torture is ok. And the terrorists think their kind of torture is ok. You think it ok to make people so miserable that they kill themselves. I can see the difference you sweet sensitive darling.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:30 pmRoughly 300000 died in the Anfal massacre. Is this what we are really shooting for, to be not as bad as Saddam?
Comment by erock
Do you see a difference between a man that intentionally kills at least 300,000 and a country that overthrows that man to see terrorists come and kill that many?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:30 pmAnd how many died before we came because of money and technological aid Reagan gave Saddam?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
fixed your typo timmy
Comment by Krazny
Did we aid him and say “kill all these people”- nice try though-next!
May 31st, 2007 at 6:31 pmAnd how many of those were brought back to life as a result of our invasion and occupation?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
None, but how many more would he have killed and then his son killed, and then his son killed and then his son killed?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:31 pmAsk Donald Vance his point of view on torture, and why it was used on an American citizen who was a 29 year old Navy Veteran.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:32 pmThanks for the link, yes I would say a difference of 600,000 to 315,000 does make me happier. Again, we have not killed that many it has beent the terrorists you are defending with car bombs and suicide bombs. And before you say that they wouldn’t have died if we didn’t go there, please look at the mass graves from the Saddam era.
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
I’m not defending any terrorists. What they do is monstrous. However, torturing what may very well be innocent detainees is also monstrous and also violates many of the ideas on which the U.S. depends for a free society. Yes, these aren’t U.S. citizens and thus don’t enjoy all our rights, but so what, does that make it any less wrong to torture them or lock them away indefinitely without due process?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:33 pmWho gives a shit?
I drink coffee that was grown in Columbia, but it originally came from the Arabian Peninsula, Who Gives A Shit?
I do yoga, which was originally developed in India, Who Gives a Shit?
I drink beer that was imported from Holland, Who Gives a Shit?
I read books written thousands of years ago, Who Gives a Shit?
The point is: what works, works, no matter when or where it was created or developed.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:34 pmLOL too funny timmy your god reagan, gave material aid to Saddam knowing full well what he was doing. When the chemical weapons were used against the kurds Reagan and his acolytes made sure keep it under wraps because of the connection. Please move the goalposts some more. you will still lose.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:34 pmHere’s the 600000 estimate from late 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2006/ 10/ 10/ AR2006101001442.html
I was mistaken though, our government (at that time) placed it at 30000.
So let’s average the two and say its 315000, does that make you happier?
Comment by erock
Thanks for the link, yes I would say a difference of 600,000 to 315,000 does make me happier. Again, we have not killed that many it has beent the terrorists you are defending with car bombs and suicide bombs. And before you say that they wouldn’t have died if we didn’t go there, please look at the mass graves from the Saddam era.
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Of course timmy, it has been the terrorist who have been killing their own people.
let us not forget that Muslims are the number one murderers of Muslims.
More Muslims have died under the hands of Muslims than have died by the hand of any other race.
and let us not forget that we on the left are more willing to believe the testimony of terrorists than the testimony of our own soldiers, who we constantly claim we support.
let us also not forget that we are more than willing to believe that our soldiers are baby killers and that they kill innocent men and women. Yet we always claim we suport them.
it is impossible for us to believe that it has been the terrorists who have killed all these Iraqis. How dare you make such a claim?
Our soldiers, whom we support, it is them the ones that are doing all the killing of innocent Iraqi civilians. but remember, we support our troops in Iraq, but we accuse them of murder.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:34 pmDid we aid him and say “kill all these peopleâ€- nice try though-next!
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
No, but we didn’t stop him while he was doing it.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:34 pmLOL too funny timmy your god reagan, gave material aid to Saddam knowing full well what he was doing. When the chemical weapons were used against the kurds Reagan and his acolytes made sure keep it under wraps because of the connection. Please move the goalposts some more. you will still lose.
Comment by Krazny
Can you prove this?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:35 pmVerschärfte Vernehmung.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:35 pmtimmy sez:
I’m betting less than 600,000.
And by the way, that is now a conservative estimate.
Plus, there’s the added bonus of the DU we’ve strewn all over the country, insuring that today’s Iraqi citizens will be victims of the American occupation, as will their children, and their children, and their children….
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 pmLOL too funny timmy your god reagan, gave material aid to Saddam knowing full well what he was doing. When the chemical weapons were used against the kurds Reagan and his acolytes made sure keep it under wraps because of the connection. Please move the goalposts some more. you will still lose.
Comment by Krazny — May 31, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
Oh please, how much technology did our god, FDR, give to the Soviet Union, which in turned around and used against us and against millions of other people.
please, if you want to play this game, we can play it all day long.
thanks to American and English technology given to the USSR during WWII the Soviet Union was able to build the Migs. and the list goes on and on.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 pmThanks for the link, yes I would say a difference of 600,000 to 315,000 does make me happier. Again, we have not killed that many it has beent the terrorists you are defending with car bombs and suicide bombs. And before you say that they wouldn’t have died if we didn’t go there, please look at the mass graves from the Saddam era.
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
I’m not defending any terrorists. What they do is monstrous. However, torturing what may very well be innocent detainees is also monstrous and also violates many of the ideas on which the U.S. depends for a free society. Yes, these aren’t U.S. citizens and thus don’t enjoy all our rights, but so what, does that make it any less wrong to torture them or lock them away indefinitely without due process?
Comment by erock — May 31, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
Erock, please do tell, how many WWII POWs held by the USA, while WWII was going on were given a trial?
name, rank, country. tick, tock, tick, tock…
May 31st, 2007 at 6:37 pmShanette - My mother was a Jewess - my dad was Irish/Catholic. According to the Jewish religion, I am a Jew. According to the faith I choose to practice I am a Roman Catholic. I attend shabbat on Fridays with my cousins and siblings and go to Mass on Sundays.
According to your ill-conceived “logicâ€, you’d think IF semitic were semitic†our desert “cousinsâ€, the Mohammaden wouldn’t want the Jews DEAD. Did you blame the Jews for Hitlers’ ethnic brainstorm “The Final Solutionâ€, too?
Comment by valiant venus
Interesting vv because my father was Jewish and my mother is Italian Catholic. So basically, I’m not legally as Jewish as you are. But I believe Hitler would have gassed us both equally. Have you met any Israelis? Because I have and I can tell you it is hard to differentiate among semitic people. And I guarantee evangelical christians would be unable to tell the difference.
But the point was you support Hitler’s tactics and that is just twisted. How deep is your guilt vv?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:37 pmDo you see a difference between a man that intentionally kills at least 300,000 and a country that overthrows that man to see terrorists come and kill that many?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
So we don’t take any responsibility for allowing these murders to take place? When we overthrew Saddam, we became responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of Iraq. We didn’t do that and so the blame for these dead falls squarely on us.
Further, what do you think is going to happen when we leave Iraq. I bet Al-Sadr will be much kinder to his people than Saddam was. The killing won’t stop, it will just be under a different so-called leader.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:37 pmSure, we only torture terrorists.
BTW, 86% of the inmates at Gitmo were captured by Pakistan, and hundreds have been released by the Bush administration. If they didn’t hate us before, they do now.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:38 pmDid we aid him and say “kill all these peopleâ€- nice try though-next!
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
No, but we didn’t stop him while he was doing it.
Comment by erock
So you wanted us to stop him then, but you are against us stopping him now?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:38 pmtimmy sez:
None, but how many more would he have killed and then his son killed, and then his son killed and then his son killed?
I’m betting less than 600,000.
And by the way, that is now a conservative estimate.
Plus, there’s the added bonus of the DU we’ve strewn all over the country, insuring that today’s Iraqi citizens will be victims of the American occupation, as will their children, and their children, and their children….
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — May 31, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
tripmaster, you rather that they be victims of Saddam Hussein’s regime, right?
much rather that men, women and children die in the torture chambes of Saddam Hussein, correct?
nice to know that you are against the policy which I signed into law, Regime Change in Iraq.
nice ot know that you rather have Hussein over the good US of A.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:39 pmI’m betting less than 600,000.
And by the way, that is now a conservative estimate.
Plus, there’s the added bonus of the DU we’ve strewn all over the country, insuring that today’s Iraqi citizens will be victims of the American occupation, as will their children, and their children, and their children….
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
You think that if Saddam were still in power and his sons were still alive throughought generations less than 600,000 would die, when we already know of at least 300,000 by Saddam himself? You are so funny.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:39 pm#102 - Also, Saddam was very quickly executed for retaliating against an assassination attempt, because if the trial for gassing the Kurds came up, there would be some serious implications in that trial. Fingers would be pointed toward the US, and that couldn’t happen.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:40 pmLOL too funny timmy your god reagan, gave material aid to Saddam knowing full well what he was doing. When the chemical weapons were used against the kurds Reagan and his acolytes made sure keep it under wraps because of the connection. Please move the goalposts some more. you will still lose.
Comment by Krazny
Can you prove this?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:35 pm
That gasing of the Kurds was never kept under wraps, this is pure and utter horse shit from krazny.
As usual, my toolish followers are lying because they can’t win debates by stating the truth.
and funny enough, I have never heard a left winger of mine criticize our god FDR for giving weapoins, and money to the Soviet union, which after WWII Stalin used to kill millions of people and develop deadly weapons.
It is only a sin, in our left wing eyes when a right wing does it, it is not a sin when a left wing does it.
haven’t you learned that yet timmy.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:41 pmSee you all, it has been fun pointing out how much you love terrorists and hate America.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:41 pmDid we aid him and say “kill all these peopleâ€- nice try though-next!
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
No, but we didn’t stop him while he was doing it.
Comment by erock
So you wanted us to stop him then, but you are against us stopping him now?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
hmmm….we didn’t know he was doing it. When we found out he was doing it, we did stop him. Gulf War I anyone? No-fly-zones anyone?
but once again, our left wing god, FDR, did the same thing with the Soviet Union, and the USSR turned around and used our weapons, technology and millions we gave to them to kill millions of people. Where was the left wing outrage?
oh wait, I forgot, the left was too busy praising Stalin and the Soviet Union.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 pmTimmy, we gave him the go ahead to invade Kuwait by saying “We aren’t concerned with your border dispute. Do as you see fit.”
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 pmhttp://papers.ssrn.com/ sol3/ papers.cfm?abstract_id=885659
Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.
Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.
The Government has detained numerous persons based on mere affiliations with a large number of groups that, in fact, are not on the Department of Homeland Security terrorist watchlist. Moreover, the nexus between such a detainee and such organizations varies considerably. Eight percent are detained because they are deemed “fighters for;” 30% considered “members of;” a large majority - 60% - are detained merely because they are “associated with” a group or groups the Government asserts are terrorist organizations. For 2% of the prisoners, a nexus to any terrorist group is not identified by the Government.
Only 5% of the detainees were captured by United States forces. 86% of the detainees were arrested by either Pakistan or the Northern Alliance and turned over to United States custody. This 86% of the detainees captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance were handed over to the United States at a time in which the United States offered large bounties for capture of suspected enemies.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 pmTimmy, we gave him the go ahead to invade Kuwait by saying “We aren’t concerned with your border dispute. Do as you see fit.â€
Comment by Alejandro — May 31, 2007 @ 6:43 pm
really? now I know this Alejandro guy is not a man of history. No one gave Hussein the green light to invade Kuwait, he was warned, and we went to war against him because he invaded Kuwait. forgot that little part of 1990s history didn’t you. That war called thhe Gulf War.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:44 pm#102 - Also, Saddam was very quickly executed for retaliating against an assassination attempt, because if the trial for gassing the Kurds came up, there would be some serious implications in that trial. Fingers would be pointed toward the US, and that couldn’t happen.
Comment by Alejandro — May 31, 2007 @ 6:40 pm
yes, the French, Russian, Germans, etc would have been complicated in the whole mess.
Let us not forget that Hussein arsenal was 99% made up of Russian, and French weapons, NOT American weapons.
I know, a small detail that escapes my sycophant followers.
the SCUD missles were soviet made, the Migs and Mirages that made up the Iraqi Air Force under Hussein were Russian and French made. Ak-47s the prefered machine gun of the Iraqi armed forces under Hussein was Russian made.
so were Hussein’s tanks, grenades, etc, etc, etc. All French, and Russian made.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:49 pmtimmy sez:
How long did it take Saddam to reach his figure?
And how long did it take Chimpy to reach his?
Your ridiculous screed that we invaded Iraq to save them from themselves held no water before the invasion…otherwise the administration would not have needed to gin up accusations of nonexistent WMDs and fictional ties to Al Qaeda. It holds less than none now, now that the figures are in.
One more thing…I couldn’t help but notice you avoided entirely the subject of DU…interesting…
May 31st, 2007 at 6:49 pmOur own generals say that torture doesn’t work and only endangers our troops more.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:50 pmtimmy sez:
You think that if Saddam were still in power and his sons were still alive throughought generations less than 600,000 would die, when we already know of at least 300,000 by Saddam himself? You are so funny.
How long did it take Saddam to reach his figure?
And how long did it take Chimpy to reach his?
Your ridiculous screed that we invaded Iraq to save them from themselves held no water before the invasion…otherwise the administration would not have needed to gin up accusations of nonexistent WMDs and fictional ties to Al Qaeda. It holds less than none now, now that the figures are in.
One more thing…I couldn’t help but notice you avoided entirely the subject of DU…interesting…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — May 31, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
How mass graves have been found in Iraq? all filled up with the bodies of innocent Iraqis that Hussein ordered killed!
do you think that all the other Arab leaders called him the butcher of Baghadad for nothing?
seems that even the Arab world disagrees with you.
I know, you are an american extreme left winger and you much rather have Hussein in power.
But at least even my wife cheered when we captured this monster, who modeled his governemnt after Hitler’s government. A fact that I am sure you will deny.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:52 pmI know this happened before your inauguration, but maybe you aren’t aware of this.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:55 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie
Of course, these events are “disputed.”
I know this happened before your inauguration, but maybe you aren’t aware of this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie
Of course, these events are “disputed.â€
Comment by Alejandro — May 31, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
well my non-intelligent friend, if you are going to quote wikipedia as a source, I will quote my ass as a source. Monica really liked it, my ass not wikipedia. Her and I are in agreement that wikipedia is for dumb, slow, silly people.
didn’t you know that anyone and everyone in the world can edit wikipedia?
c’mon son, you have to do better than this if you want to rank amongst the great left wingers of your time, like me.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:57 pmApril Glaspie:
http://www.jang.com.pk/ thenews/ dec2005-daily/ 25-12-2005/ world/ w2.htm
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html
Hmm the Bell helicopters used for crop spraying (1983) and the Dow Chemical ingredients for the gas - American. Nice job Rummy.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:08 pmAs some liberal once said: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
Enough said.
Unless, of course, you think that “liberal” is a coward and a traitor and should be hung or, say, crucified.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:09 pm#81 -” As for MA/VV notion of the stories being buried, since the the media often crows about any sort of terrorists caught, the gel bombers in London, and the pizza deliver assassins, I doubt that they, or this administration would not be tooting thier horn about any and all good news.”Comment by Krazny
Krazny - - YOU DOUBT??? Oh, thaaaat’s reassuring!! Maybe, you should broaden your research horizons. I look at the NYT, the BBC and the LAT for giggles….and to know who the opposition morons will “source”.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:13 pmComment by TerrytheTurtle — May 31, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Aargh! You posted my link before I could! :P
I figured that PC would find the New York Times a bit more difficult to dismiss than Wikipedia…not that facts ever convince him, anyway…
May 31st, 2007 at 7:14 pmvaliant venus, what’s YOUR source? Little Green Footballs?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:18 pm#130 - Jesus was an obedient Jew….and we know how Jewish Law “frowned” on homosexuality. Go peddle your revisionism at the AmericanAtheist website - they love folks like you over there….
MR. P - What have you said to your bride, the Senator, since her vote kept pace with Obama’s? Does she think the faster we Surrender the faster we can declare Victory - or some other horsepucky??
May 31st, 2007 at 7:21 pmGod is a Jew?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:22 pmAlejandro - My source that krazny is not as bright as he would have us believe or my source that stories not favourable to the LEFT are buried in the NYT, LAT etc.?
Congratulations!! You have provided an excellent source demonstrating your own lack of thoroughness…..Keep up the good work!
May 31st, 2007 at 7:24 pm#130 - Jesus was an obedient Jew….and we know how Jewish Law “frowned†on homosexuality. Go peddle your revisionism at the AmericanAtheist website - they love folks like you over there…. Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
An “obedient” Jew? BAHAAHAHAHAHA, talk about *revisionist* history!!! Yeah, going and trashing the “temple” is obedient!!! Pissing off your own people so badly the religious leadership hands him over to the romans - INDEED!!!
What a lying piece of sh*t little c*nt you are!!!
Go peddle your revisionism at s*ck my religious zealot can’t make up my mind if I’m a christian or jewish wingnut dot com!
MR. P - What have you said to your bride, the Senator, since her vote kept pace with Obama’s? Does she think the faster we Surrender the faster we can declare Victory - or some other horsepucky??
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
Surrender to our “friends” the Iraqis? The control of their OWN GOVERNMENT? BAHAHAAH, what at st*pid little c*nt you are OSAMA BEN VENUS!!! Tell me, do you plan to annex Iraq as yet another Province of Israel - or are of the NeoCons running Iraq just an “accident” of Oil appropriation?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:28 pmAlejandro - My source that krazny is not as bright as he would have us believe or my source that stories not favourable to the LEFT are buried in the NYT, LAT etc.?
You mean your WINGNUT PROPAGANDA? BAHAHAHA, please c*nt!!! jUst because you can’t tell the difference between the “Christian-Enquirer” and LEGITIMATE NEWS - don’t EMBARRASS YOURSELF HERE by thinking we don’t know what a st*pid b*tch you are!!!
PUHLEASE, Anorexia guhrl!!! They had to make a special version of DUm Basss just to describe you!!!
Congratulations!! You have provided an excellent source demonstrating your own lack of thoroughness…..Keep up the good work!
Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
Pure PROJECTION of YOUR OWN LACK OF THOROUGHNESS - st*pid c*Nt!
May 31st, 2007 at 7:30 pmKrazny - - YOU DOUBT??? Oh, thaaaat’s reassuring!! Maybe, you should broaden your research horizons. I look at the NYT, the BBC and the LAT for giggles….and to know who the opposition morons will “sourceâ€. Comment by valiant venus — May 31, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
Or maybe you should *narrow* yours, away from the “Rapture-News”, and realize that your wingnuttery LieAThon - ISN’T JOURNALISM!!! But it does show the world what a ST*PID LITTLE C*NT YOU ARE!!
BAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
May 31st, 2007 at 7:32 pm#134,
Weird non-sequitor. So, that’s your last line of defense? When you have been thoroughly debunked and exposed as a shrill preaching hate, your only response is “ooh, look, gays”?
Oh, and for future reference, Jesus was NOT an “obedient Jew”. That is one of the reasons they crucified him. Have you ever read the bible or do you rely on the same “cliff notes” that Bush uses that states “Hate everything non-white and steal everything that you can put your hands on.” I cannot remember who the source is on the notes, either the Vatican or Jerry Falwell. Same difference.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:39 pmSo you wanted us to stop him then, but you are against us stopping him now?
Comment by timmy — May 31, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
Again, you’ve missed the point. You can’t point to the Anfal Massacre of 86-88 without asking why didn’t we stop him then.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:52 pmInteresting…when pressed on the subject of DU, timmy cuts and runs.
Good to know.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:56 pmNo Fed - As usual - you miss the point….but that’s not unusual. One of our religious “authorities” here at TP was explaining that Jesus was an anything goes kind of guy - that he was not judgemental in the least - ……He wasn’t. He was all forgiving….but he did not say “KEEP right on sinning”.
Act