Troubling. Flawed. Dangerous. Telling.
Troubling. Flawed. Dangerous. Telling.
Dan Froomkin on spending the next 50 years in Iraq:
It’s troubling because American troops have been in South Korea for more than 50 years — while polls show the American public wants them out of Iraq within a year.
It’s flawed because in South Korea, unlike Iraq, there’s something concrete to defend (the border with North Korea); and because Iraq, unlike South Korea, happens to be in a state of violent civil war.
It’s dangerous because the specter of a permanent military presence in Iraq is widely considered to be one of the most inflammatory incitements to Iraq’s ever-growing anti-American insurgency, and may even be destabilizing to the entire region.
And it’s telling because it gives credence to persistent suspicions that establishing a long-term strategic presence in the Middle East was a primary motivation for this misbegotten war in the first place.
Meanwhile, Atrios offers a must-read answer to the question, “Why do we stay in Iraq?“
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“And it’s telling because it gives credence to persistent suspicions that establishing a long-term strategic presence in the Middle East was a primary motivation for this misbegotten war in the first place.”
And more importantly, it proves that us crazy moonbats have been 100% right all along.
And the trolls are 100% wrong now as they were last yaer and the year before that and two years before that.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:15 pmThose that continue to support this war need to go fight it.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:20 pmanybody with two brain cells to rub together could have figured out that we went in to iraq to stay, and every single thing that’s happened since has borne out that conclusion… i am with atrios 110%, we are going to be in iraq forever, as long as this crowd and their republican and democratic enablers in congress continue to have their way…
May 31st, 2007 at 10:22 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
We will stay just long enough for Bush to claim, “I did not lose the Iraq War.” The Iraqi failure is Bush’s legacy and more proof that Republicans can’t govern. Hee’s a question for America in 2008, “Is it really a Republican you want in the White House to fix the mess Republicans made?”
May 31st, 2007 at 10:23 pmIt’d be just like that blessed Idiot-From-Hell-In-Chief Bush to want this.
The man is F*#king INSANE!!!!
May 31st, 2007 at 10:23 pmDien Bien Phu……
May 31st, 2007 at 10:27 pmDien Bien Phu……
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — May 31, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
TtT,
Compared to the present situation, that was a church bizaar.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:34 pm“Dien Bien Phu……”
What is that, French for “No F*#king Sh&t”?
May 31st, 2007 at 10:35 pmYes, South Korea is exactly like Iraq, if you’re a $hit-for-brains Republican who’s never traveled outside this country.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:38 pmWalt - Stalingrad? From the German’s perspective that is?
May 31st, 2007 at 10:44 pm#9 - Jake-o-bin,
May 31st, 2007 at 10:46 pmActually, S. Korea is a nice place to visit. The food is good as long as you avoid certain delicacies. The only caution is that you should not bring your dog along for the trip.
“Dien Bien Phu……â€
What is that, French for “No F*#king Sh&t�
Comment by the republic of stupidity
That’s the name of a town in Viet Nam, and there was a battle there between the Viet Cong (?) and French in the 50s (I think).
May 31st, 2007 at 10:54 pmTtT,
May 31st, 2007 at 10:57 pmActually, Leningrad was a bit worse. I have living German contacts who lost both legs to frostbite in that affair and resent it to this day.
They are few, but W is building the same legacy that Hitler did. He (W) will be reviled long after he dies.
1914 British invaded Iraq to liberate and civilize it. British controlled Iraq for some 22 years and kept up to 90,000 troops in Iraq.
Did it change anything? Apparentlly not. The model is not Korea, the model is Iraq.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:58 pmHow many U.S. soldiers are killed daily in Korea?
May 31st, 2007 at 10:58 pmAs I understand, US troops in Korea, like Soviet-era US troops in Germany, primarily function as guarantees that the US will intervene if N. Korea invades — S. Korea has more than a verbal guarantee, since N. Korea can’t invade without killing Americans.
There’s no such situation in Iraq. Our troops will be protecting their own bases and possibly the areas of government control, but there’s no foreign enemy to defend against — just the Iraqi militias.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:02 pmSeems Kissinger equates Iraq with Vietnam.
http://www.latimes.com/ news/ opinion/ la-oe-kissinger31may31,0,7527631.story
May 31st, 2007 at 11:15 pmDan Froomkin on “spending the next 50 years in Iraq:†Want to know why Froomkin is supporting this position? Two reasons: first, he hasn’t any family member in the U.S. occupation in Iraq. Second, he’s getting a big fat slice from Big Oil. Nuff said.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:23 pmThat’s the name of a town in Viet Nam, and there was a battle there between the Viet Cong (?) and French in the 50s (I think).
Comment by Zooey
(I know that, Zooey, and thank you anyways. I was trying to be a wise ass…) Dien Bien Phu is generally regarded as the moment at which the French lost their fight in Viet Nam. It was a military base w/ something like 5,000 French soldiers that was surrounded and eventually overrun. If I remember correctly, almost all the French soldiers were lost.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:28 pmComment by Armando Gomez
Froomkin is not supporting the idea of staying in Iraq.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:29 pmDear President Bush:
Thanks for leading the United States to another stalemate. Hey, it beats losing (like Vietnam). Too bad you couldn’t outdo your Daddy’s successful war. That Cheney strategy didn’t work so good second time around, no?
May 31st, 2007 at 11:30 pmBush invaded and occupied Iraq to control its vast OIL reserves, so he planned for a long term presence in Iraq of at least 30 years to extract all the OIL, and the construction of the huge US Embassy proves it.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:33 pm“Froomkin is not supporting the idea of staying in Iraq.”
Zoo, thanks, I was about to research it. That would be against everything he has ever written.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:37 pm“It’s flawed because in South Korea, unlike Iraq, there’s something concrete to defend (the border with North Korea); …and because Iraq, unlike South Korea, happens to be in a state of violent civil war…”
Harvard seems to think Korea was a civil war.
“The following is a list of all civil wars from 1940 to 2005, all of which meet the criteria above:
Korea Korean War 1950 1953″
May 31st, 2007 at 11:49 pmhttp://www.niemanwatchdog.org/ index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00220
Zoo, thanks, I was about to research it. That would be against everything he has ever written.
Comment by JPark
That’s why I went back and read the thing — in case I misunderstood what Froomkin was saying. :)
May 31st, 2007 at 11:51 pmIn Vietnam, Bush had an exit strategy…
May 31st, 2007 at 11:57 pmIn Vietnam, Bush had an exit strategy…
Hey, Bush has an exit strategy in place… more dietary fiber!
June 1st, 2007 at 12:25 amAll of Dan Froomkin’s points are spot on. He just forgot one. And that is the reason why we are there….to steal Iraq’s oil.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:28 amThe whole objective in Iraq is OIL - and not to increase the amount of oil but to control how much is on the market - so the OIL companies can keep production of gas low and prices high - that was what Cheney’s secret energy meeting was all about.
We are being used - and we take it like the wimps we have become
Hating wimps daily
June 1st, 2007 at 12:45 amWell hey there!
I’m a retard at atriosblogtwat,
listen to may speculation about shit I don’t even know about!!!
June 1st, 2007 at 12:55 am“Troubling. Flawed. Dangerous. Telling.”
Suck it up you little bitch.
The King is dead, long live the motherf*cking KING!
June 1st, 2007 at 12:57 amThis occupation is a stupendous tragedy, and one that was entirely unnecessary. About the only upside I can see is that it may possibly bring an end to an era of state-sponsored terrorism that is worse than any the world has ever known. This hideous reign of terror, which has operated without constraint since the Reagan administration, must be exposed for what it is, and the roots of it must be destroyed.
The human cost of all this is just overwhelming. To me, it is a question not unlike the question the victims of the Nazi prison camps had to face — what was the purpose for all the suffering and anguish they had to bear? I just fear that too few people will ever ask that question of themselves, and of each other, and that no higher purpose will ever be realized. But the truth is really simple — we don’t need Holocaust Museums, people, we need to end the holocaust itself.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:59 amwe don’t need Holocaust Museums, people, we need to end the holocaust itself.
Comment by stonehinge — June 1, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Get with it, unhinged, the Holocaust ended in 1945.
June 1st, 2007 at 1:18 amUpright left, wrong - the holocaust never ended. The Nazi camps were just a training ground for the campaigns implemented by US since the Reagan Administration implemented this bogus War on Terra.
June 1st, 2007 at 2:02 amshould be - “Reagan Administration invented”
June 1st, 2007 at 2:12 amNeoCONS want perpetual war to send O.P.K. (other peoples’ kids) to- keeps the population down; good fer ‘bidness.
June 1st, 2007 at 2:18 amwrong - the holocaust never ended. The Nazi camps were just a training ground for the campaigns implemented by US since the Reagan Administration implemented this bogus War on Terra.
Comment by stonehinge — June 1, 2007 @ 2:02 am
You really want to trivialize the suffering of the Jews, don’t ya buddy? Just exactly what is it that you think compares with the killing of 6 million innocent people with the goal of exterminating them? The only ones deliberately killing innocents in Iraq are the terrorists. That must be it. You made a mistake and actually meant to compare the terrorists to the Nazis.
June 1st, 2007 at 3:07 amNeoCONS want perpetual war to send O.P.K. (other peoples’ kids) to- keeps the population down; good fer ‘bidness.
Comment by NeoCONS ‘R’ SCUM — June 1, 2007 @ 2:18 am
Sorry, scum, population control is a loonie liberal concept.
June 1st, 2007 at 3:09 amOh gosh, upright left, you are such a manly man, blinding the rest of us with your searing truth. You must be a Very Important Person, wherever you’re hiding.
June 1st, 2007 at 3:17 amOh gosh, upright left, you are such a manly man, blinding the rest of us with your searing truth. You must be a Very Important Person, wherever you’re hiding.
Comment by the republic of stupidity — June 1, 2007 @ 3:17 am
Ohhh, that really stings, stupid. How could ya? ;)
June 1st, 2007 at 3:20 amOhhh, that really stings, stupid. How could ya? ;)
Comment by upright left
Ah yes, ANOTHER Twinkie-huffer, living in his mom’s basement, can’t find a job, or a girlfriend, but… can type very well w/ just.., one… hand…
Right back at ya, dick head :-)
June 1st, 2007 at 3:48 amAh yes, ANOTHER Twinkie-huffer, living in his mom’s basement, can’t find a job, or a girlfriend, but… can type very well w/ just.., one… hand…
Right back at ya, dick head :-)
Comment by the republic of stupidity — June 1, 2007 @ 3:48 am
Dang, it sure doesn’t take much to get you people in a snit does it? Calm yourself, stupid. You’ll be ok in a few minutes.
June 1st, 2007 at 3:58 amStaying in Iraq indefinitely would be a big stick in the eye to Osama. If you can’t get him dead or alive, you can annoy him to heck.
June 1st, 2007 at 6:49 amBAGHDAD - Sunni residents of a west Baghdad neighborhood used assault rifles and a roadside bomb to battle the Sunni insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq this week, leaving at least 28 people dead and six injured, residents said Thursday.
The only thing better than Americans killing terrorists, and that’s Sunnis killing terrorists.
You can scutinize this effort for the rest of you lives, but it’s just better to be fighting this ideological war in the Middle East and not on the streets of New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, etc.
Despite your 9/11 conspiracy fantasies, fundamentalist Islam declared war on us and moderate Islam has done nothing to stop them.
This conflict will be resolved and will be resolved in the desert. Not here.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:12 amWhile I totally agree with MOST of what Atrios (Marshall) had to say…
…I believe he left out one of the MOST critical reasons we went…
…and will stay…
…Israel…
June 1st, 2007 at 11:06 am