‘Iraq is not Korea,’
By on Jun 1st, 2007 at 7:20 pm
‘Iraq is not Korea,’
former National Security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told an audience in DC Wednesday night.
US presence has engendered stability on the Korean peninsula because “the South Koreans welcomed us,” he said. Following the Korean war, the US was viewed as a force for good, protecting the south from the oppression of the north.
But the US presence in Iraq is “much closer to colonialism, imperialism,” Brzezinski explained. A good majority of Iraqis object to the presence of US troops, viewing them as foreign occupiers. Thus, Brzezinski noted, the US could never hope to sustain an enduring presence unless American leaders resigned themselves to facing enduring resistance.
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OOPS! Dubya must have missed that class in World History at Yale. Too busy playing grbass with his fellow Skull and Boner Boyz
June 1st, 2007 at 7:27 pmGee, that makes perfect sense, but might be too complex for some. Perhaps I can help.
Korea: The US presence in S.Korea helps to guard the DMZ/border and has no police or governmental duties. (remember, the Korean war has never officially ended, it is in a state of “truce”)
Iraq: The US presence in Iraq is to kill of all Iraqis (genocide), oppress the people, control the government, and steal their resources.
Not the same at all.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:28 pmActually, the good old USA supported a “military strongman” (a dictator) in South Korea for many years, until finally the Korean people demanded and received a functioning democracy with honestly-run elections (something we could use here in the good old USA..).
The illegimate lying election-stealing war-mongering Bush crime family invasion and occupation of the sovereign Republic of Iraq was illegal and criminal on several levels. This continuing occupation is a crime against humanity. But the Bush crime family has never given a fig about our human race, just their own power and resource theft.
Dear Mr. Z Brzezinski: the US presence in Iraq is colonialism, imperialism,†to sum it up in two words.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:39 pmIn these 17 words, Brzezinski said far more than W did in 16 words during his 2003 SOTU address: : “A good majority of Iraqis object to the presence of US troops, viewing them as foreign occupiers.”, and what Brzezinski said is fact, not fantasy.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:44 pmSouth Korea is mostly CHRISTIAN.
June 1st, 2007 at 7:53 pmUsing this atmosphere of insecurity, Brzezinski led the U.S. toward a new arms buildup, and the development of the Rapid Deployment Forces—policies that are both more generally associated with Reagan now. In 1980, Brzezinski planned Operation Eagle Claw, which was meant to free the hostages in Iran using the newly created Delta Force and other Special Forces units. The mission was a failure, and led to Secretary Vance’s resignation.
Brzezinski was criticized widely in the press and became the least popular member of Carter’s administration. Edward Kennedy challenged President Carter for the Democratic nomination, and at the 1980 Democratic convention his convention delegates loudly booed Brzezinski. Hurt by internal divisions within his party, Carter lost the 1980 presidential election in a landslide.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:01 pmAnd Iraqis (and Iranians) are not Korean. We can stay there until we die of a thousand cuts or we can Cut & Run to live to fight another day.
This clusterf#ck in Iraq is called a clusterf#ck or a quagmire or whatever simply because there IS no word to describe it yet. Maybe we’ll come up with something in the future – something like that word Holocaust we came up with to describe what Hitler did to the Jews. Maybe Muslocaust? I don’t know.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:15 pm#6 Good history of Brzezinski.
And, as he IS such a WAR HAWK, he KNOWS of what he speaks.
Bush’s CRIMINALS, with Bush as the snake oil salesman, LIED re WMDs
Osama is STILL free, and we are looking at 50 YEARS in Iraq?
Bush et al are TRAITORS to the USA.
Who need to be sent to Gitmo and TORTURED, then sent to Iraq to live with those they have “liberated”.
If the Iraqis KILL THEM, better yet…
June 1st, 2007 at 8:22 pmZbigniew Brzezinski advised Jimmy Carter on how to handle the embarrassment of the Iranian Hostage debacle so I guess he would know something. He must have told Jimmy that pissing down your leg in the face of a bunch of mullahs would show those Islamist idiots what international treaties regarding sovereign embassies means. He is one of the architects of the problems in the ME to this day. Of course the apologists on the left will listen to this former member of a failed administration like he is an oracle.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:23 pm#9
Doesn’t change the FACT that Bush is a TRAITOR coxucker PUNK who needs to be TORTURED at Gitmo for his TREASON.
Cheney, too.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:26 pm#9 Uhhh
Didnt the US attempt two special forces missions to free them ???
Which is more then I can say for Reagons “Iran Contra” debacle which supplied arms to Iran in exchange for hostages.
Rejecting Iranian demands, Carter approved an ill-fated secret rescue mission, Operation Eagle Claw. On the night of April 24, 1980, as the first part of the operation, a number of C-130 transport airplanes met up with eight RH-53 helicopters at an airstrip in the Great Salt Desert of Eastern Iran, near Tabas. Two helicopters broke down in a sandstorm and a third one was damaged on landing. The mission was aborted, but as the aircraft took off again one helicopter clipped a C-130 and crashed, killing eight U.S. servicemen and injuring several more. In Iran, Khomeini’s prestige skyrocketed as he credited divine intervention on behalf of Islam for the mission’s failure.[20]
A second rescue attempt was planned using highly modified YMC-130H Hercules aircraft. Outfitted with rocket thrusters fore and aft to allow an extremely short landing and take-off in a soccer stadium, three aircraft were modified under a rushed super-secret program known as Credible Sport. One aircraft crashed during a demonstration at Duke Field, Florida, at Eglin Air Force Base Auxiliary Field 3 on October 29, 1980, when its landing braking rockets were fired too soon. The misfire caused a hard touchdown that tore off the starboard wing and started a fire. All on board survived. The impending change in the White House led to an abandonment of this project. The two surviving airframes were returned to regular duty with the rocket packages removed. One is now on display at the Museum of Aviation located next to Robins Air Force Base in Georgia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis#Rescue_attempts
June 1st, 2007 at 8:38 pmbeefeater. you’re right on the money. what’s funny, is carter comes out a couple of weeks ago explaining how bush is the worst president ever. jimmy, anyone but you can say that. you should probably stick to superficial displays of humanitarianism.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:42 pmComparing wars is fairly pointless as no two wars are alike. This is no Korea.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:47 pmUKBristolDave. you’re right. maybe you could explain to my progressive friends here that it’s also not Vietnam.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:52 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — June 1, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
I agree. Can I also explain to the right why this isn’t WWII? I want to be even handed here.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:55 pmKurdistan is like Korea – at least, in the sense of our presence making some sense by keeping the peace and preventing the area from being overrun by its hostile neighbors. They want us there, our military serves as a defensive force against outsiders, and a juvenile democracy has grown up under our watch.
Kurdistan is a good liberal cause, like Darfur or East Timor. Our protection there predates Bush and his stupid imperialist war. We shouldn’t let the failure of his Really Big Idea That Couldn’t Possibly Go Wrong lead us to abandon the decent work we were doing there when Clinton was president.
It’s going to take some tapdancing, but we can withdraw from Arab Iraq and still keep the Kurds from falling under the boot of whichever Arab tyrant ends up on top, or being torn to pieces by everyone in the neighborhood.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:56 pmOf course Iraq isn’t Vietnam.
Fighting a war in Vietnam had at least a patina of making sense on some level.
The war you’re shilling for, CaptainMancrush, was a worse idea than the worst idea our country had in the first 200 years of its history.
June 1st, 2007 at 8:57 pm“Didnt the US attempt two special forces missions to free them ???
Comment by WMD — June 1, 2007 @ 8:38 pm”
2 failed attempts in 444 days. That showed them! Failed Commander in Chief in addition to failed President. Ross Perot got his people out in one attempt, using his own employees!
June 1st, 2007 at 8:59 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — June 1, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Different enemy in a different environment with very different ideological perspectives.
That’s the ‘nam summed up. Can I do WWII please as I regularly see the war in Iraq compared to WWII?
June 1st, 2007 at 9:02 pm“2 failed attempts in 444 days.”
So, does the Iraq War count as one great big failed attempt in 1500 days and counting?
Or should we count each new strategy as a different failed attempt?
Zoning regulations usually say that each day shall constitute a separate offense, so I say we go with that.
Yeah, beefy, good thing Bush didn’t make us look like a bunch of screw-ups like Carter did!
June 1st, 2007 at 9:03 pmSouth Korea is nothing like Iraq, and is on a Peninsula, not a landlocked nation like Iraq. Plus the South Koreans want the US to keep troops and bases in the south to counter the north. In Iraq most of the people want the US troops to leave, so remaining there would mean a never ending insurgency.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:06 pm#18
June 1st, 2007 at 9:06 pmBut Perot had the benefit of charts and graphs.
This abomination is Iraq is like no other “war” – ever. This is a “war” against and invisible and unidentifiable “enemy” as tangible as a faint and fleeting odor. Would we know the “enemy” in this “war” if he walked up to us and shook us by the hand? Know of any wars like that?
This is not like any “war” in history. This is the classic use of the military as a wrecking ball to destroy a country to make it uninhabitable for it’s original population.
Why? For obvious reasons.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:12 pmComment by Abby — June 1, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
I disagree. Iraq is classic empire. Crikey, for the UK this is the sixth or seventh time we’ve been involved in Iraq.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:25 pmIf Iraq had no OIL, then the Bush Regime would have already left skidmarks in leaving a long time ago. Only reason the US remains in Iraq is to control and extract the OIL. At least 30 years is needed to suck it all out and could take 50 or more years.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:29 pmScrew that.
Plenty of oil in Kurdistan, too.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:34 pmPlenty of oil in Kurdistan, too.
June 1st, 2007 at 9:43 pmComment by UKBristolDave — June 1, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
———————–
True that, but that this a war on the Iraqi people not part of the war-on-terror.
Oh, who am I kidding here….. Anything is part of the war-on-terror if the god Bush deems it so. It’s not like the Democrats don’t have a vested interest in Iraq’s riches.
Read something interesting about “empire” sometime ago. (I forget where) Seems every country that ever built an empire, did it at the cost of democracy at home. This often ended with loss of both home and empire. The British are the only ones who chose to give up the empire and save democracy at home. Too shallow? Seems to have point there, don’t you think?
June 1st, 2007 at 9:43 pmThe mindless, amoebic, Bush worshippers like Corporal Metatastisist…
…have no ability to visualize the big picture scenario here…
…in all of mankind’s history there have been flawed leaders…
…who have lead their countries down the primrose path to infamy…
…and ultimate destruction…
…and in practically EVERY case…
…lies, mass murder, and corruption laid the foundation for their destruction…
…George W. Bush, his cabinet, advisers, followers and SUPPORTERS…
…are ALL lying, corrupt, amoral, inhuman, murderous, greedy, scum…
….therefore NOTHING they endeavor to do…
…will succeed…
…they (CONNED’SELF-SERVING Bushites) will be destroyed…
…and if the rest of us don’t bring them to JUSTICE soon…
…so will America…
June 1st, 2007 at 9:55 pmComment by Abby — June 1, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
Niall Ferguson argues that the British Empire was sacrificed to prevent two “worse” empires, the German and the Japanese, taking control.
It’s odd but if you look at History it’s basically a story of empires. The nation state is a relatively new construct
June 1st, 2007 at 10:07 pmI think it is disgusting that that sleaze Bush compares this debacle he created to ANY other war. It’s a weasly deflection of responsibility on his part and an attempt to try to make this effort seem noble in some way. He is incredibly arrogant which is why the world is so mad at us.
I hope Gore runs. He would be a great choice and he has the brains and a global vision.
June 1st, 2007 at 10:12 pmAbby – that’s an interesting post re empires. Check out Paul Kennedy on the Great Powers…. good read on empires.
June 1st, 2007 at 10:17 pmYeah, duh! President Stupid and Ignorant — and proud of it — does not have a clue (again).
There are no parallels with S. Korea. Iraq is not a homogeneous society like South Korea. It does not have a border with a crazy regime such as a nuclear North Korea, ergo there is no DMZ.
Bush is not only crassly ignorant, Messianically arrogant to the point of total insanity on top of being the stupidest creature on the planet, he is dangerously demented.
This freak of nature, likely psychopathic , needs to be removed from power and locked up in an institution for the criminally insane. This does not mean that I am absolving this 21th century human horror. I hope that he will be punished for his crimes.
June 1st, 2007 at 10:20 pmAbby ~ good post!
Muslocaust?
IslamoEradication?
PersianPogram?
BrownPeopleDieOrLiveUnderOccupation?
Any more?
June 1st, 2007 at 10:21 pm“Niall Ferguson argues that the British Empire was sacrificed to prevent two “worse†empires, the German and the Japanese, taking control.”
But was it really a choice or self-interest……?
June 1st, 2007 at 11:47 pmIt would make perfect sense if the US wanted to reduce the size of it’s military and increase the scope of it’s military cemetaries.
June 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 amAbby,
The Iraq War is part of Bush’s strategy for the War on Terror. It’s a really lousy strategy, but at least it is one.
To end it, the Democrats can’t just badmouth it – I think Kerry 04 proved that – but actually have to put forward their own, non-idiotic strategy. At this late date, it’s going to have to involve a “What do we do about Iraq?” element.
To which I say, “Gimme a K! Gimme a U! Gimme an R! Gimme a D! What’s that spell? What’s that spell!?!”
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:09 pm