Comments on: Johnson Despairs In 1964: ‘It Looks Like We’re Getting Into Another Korea’

By: Sharon Dupree

Sharon Dupree — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:21:40 +0000

The only way things are going to change is if those Americans, who are not speaking out find a way to voice their opinions about how things are going with both the media and politicans, concerning situations both here and in Iraq. Polls serve a limited purpose. If Congress members aren’t afraid there’s a price to pay, it doesn’t matter whatpeople say in polls. The polls have consistently indicated that people aren’t happy. But, so what? Without affirmative action to follow that unhappiness, things will continue on the same course. Members of Congress, like many other people, want to protect their jobs. How many people will go against their bosses and/or supervisors if their jobs might be in jeopardy or in the case of a public service job and they believe the public won’t back them? If members of Congress feel people won’t support them when they do the right thing and won’t punish them when they do the wrong thing, the views in the polls don’t matter. This is how we got stuck with this war in the first place.
A good example of this was the poll results given today which indicated that democrats aren’t happy with the fact that there’s no war
deadline. But, many of these same people just sit back and do nothing in affirmative support for those members who try to and want to do the right thing.

By: Erroll

Erroll — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:32:51 +0000

Correction of post #41. That post was referring to Dream Crusher at #40.

By: Erroll

Erroll — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 14:30:58 +0000

One wonders if Dream Crusher at #39 is intentionally overlooking the most obvious reasons how Iraq is similar to Vietnam. Both were fought not out of necessity but of choice. Like Vietnam, Iraq has now become a quagmire which the United States finds itself ineluctably sinking deeper and deeper. As In Vietnam, the Iraqis will be fighting until their last breaths are drawn until the invader has finally left their soil. No country wants to have their land illegally occupied and Iraq, like Vietnam, is no exception. For confirmation of these opinions, I would suggest that those who are interested should read David Halberstam’s The Best and The Brightest [Halberstam originally coined the word quagmire in his earlier book The Making Of a Quagmire], one of the definitive works dealing with Vietnam, as well as Geoffrey Perret’s incisive Commander in Chief which explores how Truman, Johnson and now Bush became embroiled in unnecessary wars of choice.

By: DreamCrusher

DreamCrusher — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:59:22 +0000

Johnson was correct then for the following reasons:

1. The Vietnamese had millions of soldiers.
2. The Vietnamese were supported by China.
3. The jungle terrain was horrible for warfare.

You morons are completely wrong for comparing this to Iraq because:

1. The Iraqi insurgents don’t number in the millions, but in the tens of thousands.
2. The Iraqi insurgents are not supported by anything equivalent of communist China.
3. The flat desert terrain of Iraq made for easy warfare.

Not to mention:

a. We already whipped Saddam’s army.
b. We’ve already set up a new democratically elected government.
c. We’ve already got Iraqis controlling 7 out of 18 provinces.

Yes, Vietnam was the most retarded war in US history, we all know that, you friggin idiots. But what’s that got to do with Iraq? What’s it got to do with Korea? On that note:

a. Look at Vietnam
b. Look at South Korea
c. Notice any differences?
d. Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In conclusion:

You guys are god damn morons who think it intellectually stimulating to compare an apple to an elephant.

By: marlow

marlow — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 02:19:11 +0000

Yes, I remember well how those pesky South Koreans kept planting IED’s under their roads and ambushing our soldiers…. I recall somewhere that Ho Chi Minh actually wrote a letter to President Wilson at the end of WWI asking his aid in freeing his nation from foreign occupation; it was ignored.

By: angryvietnamvet

angryvietnamvet — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:45:30 +0000

Iraq is arabic for Vietnam, isn’t ??

By: celtic cynic

celtic cynic — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:33:27 +0000

re #34 – I was referring to when it started, the year was 1953.
The French were defeated when believing they were invincible. Deja vu all over again.

By: MapleStreet

MapleStreet — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:22:57 +0000

Could someone tell me what I’m missing ?

As I understand history, the Korean conflict has led to an insular North Korea who Shrub calls the “Axis of Evil”. They are threatening that they are close to getting the bomb.

How is this a good thing ?

By: Jim Wolf359

Jim Wolf359 — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:49:44 +0000

Celtic Cynic, just a correction, Dien Bien Phu happened in 1954. What was remarkable is that after tossing the French out of Indochina, the Viet-Minh led by Ho Chi Min were looking to us for aid and help in rebuilding and uniting their Country.
The US coldly turned its back on Ho because it was thought that he was under the influence of the Soviets.
What could have been……

By: celtic cynic

celtic cynic — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:44:56 +0000

Johnson knew what he was talking about (fear of getting into another Korea), but somehow was talked into entering the fray. He and his advisers could not remember the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu in 1963, only 11 years earlier.
Shame on him, shame on us, then and now, for allowing our stupid arrogance and greed to overrule all reason.

By: m12

m12 — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:20:36 +0000

At least Johnson has the class to resign when he saw the blunders that made the Vietnam go way past itâ€™s expiration date. Every death from that moment of clarity must have weighed heavily on his conscience. I respect him for at least admitting his mistake, and helping close a national nighmare. Unfortunately, the â€œCommander-in-Chiefâ€ and â€ War Presidentâ€ Bush thinks itâ€™s all a game that he can pass to the next President. No conscience here.

1. Johnson didn’t resign.
2. Johnson passed the war to the next President.

By: m12

m12 — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:18:57 +0000

I remember when Johnsonâ€™s conscience finally caught up with him, March of 68, I believe when he announced he wouldnâ€™t run for another term. I was shocked. That he had a conscience. Turns out he did.

ROFL! You chumps really are bending over for this guy.

I guess Cheney has a conscience too; he’s not seeking the 2008 Presidency.

By: El Tonno

El Tonno — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:33:14 +0000

> Watch this Moyers video:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sstDwKTCpM

Not bad – even if retro.

Fun facts:

1) The CIA setting up bombs in Saigon then claiming it was North Vietnamese.
2) According to Thomas C. Reed in “At the Abyss – An Insider’s History of the Cold War” on Aug 4, 1964, the destroyers Maddox and Turner Joy, which signalled that they were engaging North Vietnamese Patrol boats, were apparently firing at nothing at all as witnessed by a F-8 wanting to help out. Even more suspicious, the president was slated for a major statement about a retaliatory raid at 19:00 PM Washingtomn time even though the attack on the Maddox and Turner Joy had still to take place, at 21:20 PM. Weird, huh?
3) Salvador Allende was not assassinated but took his own live under siege (with his AK he got from Castro). Official.

By: Erroll

Erroll — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:18:11 +0000

Beefeater at #29 believes that “I don’t care if the rest of the world loves us, as long as they fear us.” That type of thinking does not appear to be working out too well in the Middle East. He may also wish to avail himself of the works of Chalmers Johnson, where he discusses, among other things, the concept of blowback, which results from the unintended consequences of America’s foreign policy and especially the secret activities of that policy that is kept hidden from the American people.

He also says “If you’re going to have a war do it right, get it done and get it over with.” A war against whom, the Iraqi people? Perhaps he is not aware that not one Iraqi was involved in the hijackings on 09/11/01. A war against the terrorists? The outside forces who are aligned against the coalition forces number a mere 2000. As Geoffrey Perret correctly points out in his book Commander in Chief, since the Koreans, Vietnamese, and Iraqis posed no threat whatsoever to the United States, the U.S. had to invent reasons based upon hysteria and fear as to why the United States had to unnecessarily invade those countries. As Chalmers Johnson notes, the United States can have either a democracy or an empire; it cannot have both.

By: beefeater

beefeater — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:56:05 +0000

We haven’t finished a conflict since Truman nuked Japan. The he and most every President since has pissed down their leg in every engagement since. Truman in Korea, JFK with the Bay o Pigs, JFK/LBJ in Viet Nam, Nixon in Viet Nam, Carter with the Iranian Hostage debacle, Clinton in Kosovo, and now Bush in Iraq. If you’re going to have a war do it right, get it done and get it over with. I don’t care if the rest of the world loves us, as long as they fear us. Right now they don’t do either one.

By: james k. sayre

james k. sayre — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:50:19 +0000

Draft all one hundred U. S. Senators and all four hundred and thirty five Representatives, put â€˜em in Army uniforms, give â€˜em each a flak jacket, a helmet, an M-16 and ship â€˜em to Baghdad and send â€˜em out on combat patrols. Then our criminal illegal imperial occupation of the sovereign state of Iraq will end so fast that it will make you head spin. Suddenly, our Senators and Representatives will see the wisdom of bring all the troops home immediately and will happily be “supporting the troops” back in the good ole USAâ€¦ Our present crop of so-called “representatives” in Congress are just a bunch of worthless lying cowardly war-mongering oil-stealing whores for the Bush crime family.

Maybe its time for a new political party, independent of corporate greed that will actually represent us the people instead of the wealthy ruling class and their corporations.

By: Erroll

Erroll — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:28:10 +0000

I posted a comment two hours ago but for some reason it did not appear. I will try it again. David Halberstam discussed this same subject in his epic and searing work The Best and The Brightest. Geoffrey Perret also covers the same ground, though in a less massive scale, in his incisive tome Commander in Chief-How Truman, Johnson, and Bush Turned a Presidential Power into a Threat to America’ Future. What Bill Moyers and TP have noted is what Gore Vidal has also commented on when he said that this country should be known as the United States of Amnesia. America will continue to engage in wars of choice as long as it inexorably elects to ignore history and its wars which it has so foolishly decided to fight.

By: RUCerious

RUCerious — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 16:12:13 +0000

I remember when Johnson’s conscience finally caught up with him, March of 68, I believe when he announced he wouldn’t run for another term. I was shocked. That he had a conscience. Turns out he did.

By: Zooey

Zooey — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:55:40 +0000

Wow, unbelievable â€” tragically unbelievable.
Comment by attaturk

I second that.

By: ace

ace — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:30:12 +0000

Cheney is personally responsible for 9/11, and the next one he has in the works.