Murtha Says He Has ‘Lost A Lot Of Confidence’ In Military Leaders, Including Petraeus
Murtha Says He Has ‘Lost A Lot Of Confidence’ In Military Leaders, Including Petraeus
On ABC’s This Week today, host George Stephanopoulos asked Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) about whether Congress would “move again to get a timetable for withdrawal in September if the benchmarks aren’t met, even if General Petraeus…comes to Congress in September and says he needs more time.” “He has an awful lot of credibility,” he added.
Murtha quickly disputed Stephanopoulos’s premise. “George, let me tell you, I’ve lost a lot of confidence in many of the military leaders. Because they say what the White house wants them to say,” said Murtha. Asked if he included Petraeus in his lack of confidence, Murtha added, “I’m waiting to see what he has to say. But I am absolutely convinced there has been this overly optimistic picture of what’s going on in Iraq, while the figures show the opposite.” Watch it:
Unfortunately, Murtha is right. Petraeus, and other military officers, have a history of supporting the administration line, despite the facts on the ground.
In April, while Congress was preparing to vote on its Iraq timeline legislation, the administration brought Petraeus back to the United States from Iraq for a rare visit, which Murtha slammed as “purely a political move.” Petraeus has allowed himself to be used as a “political prop” to support the White House’s war czar nominee. He has also echoed Bush’s line that al Qaeda, not sectarian civil war, is the greatest threat in Iraq — an assessment that contradicts the intelligence.
Transcript:
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you’re convinced that Congress is going to move again to get a timetable for withdrawal in September if the benchmarks aren’t met, even if General Petraeus, as we’ve been hearing, comes to the Congress in September and says he needs more time. He has an awful lot of credibility.MURTHA: George, let me tell you, I’ve lost a lot of confidence in many of the military leaders. Because they say what the White House wants them to say.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Including General Petraeus?
MURTHA: Well, I’m waiting to see what he has to say. But I am absolutely convinced there has been this overly optimistic picture of what’s going on in Iraq, while the figures show the opposite. For instance, how can you say things are going well when casualties in the last two months are at the highest level in any two month-period during the war? How can you say when none of the economic things have gotten better? How can you say when they haven’t done the political things they need to do and they keep putting it off? How can you say when their parliament is in recess during a period when our people are dying and in harm’s way? How can you say you’re making progress?
The Iraqis have to take this on themselves. We’re caught in a civil war, and our troops are being killed in this civil war.
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Well, that’s fine, since the American people have lost confidence in the useless Democrats in Congress.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 amPetraeus is atraitor to his own counter insurgency writings.But just for an additional star this so called bright military mind is willing to have innocent American G.Is die. the surge will not work.But many of our young men and when will be killed needlessly& have already paid the price.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:53 am****In short Petraeus has no honor.
Here come the attacks on Murtha, since the trolls can’t debate the issue…
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:55 amThe General in charge of Iraq,
Keeps talking the President’s track,
This Gen’ral Petraeus
(Which sounds like Betray-us)
Keeps pushing the “progress” date back.
“March, June, September, you’ll see
Or not till December, maybe,”
Says Gen’ral Petraeus
(Which sounds like Betray-us)
While surging to World War Three.
And Congress kept funding the war,
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:06 pmRepubs and Dem’crats galore
For Gen’ral Petraeus
(Which sounds like Betray-us)
Was quite the NeoCon’s whore.
How typical it is for libs to show their contempt for the military. If only your representitives in DC were as honest.
And by the way, The Sunni “Anbar Awakening” is spreading, which must be bad news for those that want us to loose.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:15 pmPetraeus got a shiny little star to stick next to the other three he alaready had.
Traditionally Bush has given the medal of freedom AFTER a display of utter failure.
In this case It looks like he had to pay up in advance.
Let me add, also in advance,
“Heck of a job Petraeus!”
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:16 pmI think you could reference other opinions than just Murtha’s–doing so would strengthen the argument that Petraeus has become a political fiunctionary, which seems to be the case IMHO. He reminds me of Colin Powell.
m12 chooses to ignore the fact that this Administration is still run by the Decider in the WH, that the Senate is evenly split and the discontent amongst the “american public is that the Democrats aren’t working hard enough and fast enough to undo 6 years of extraordinary damage done by the Republicans after the passage of only 6 months.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pmThe country is still “heading in the wrong direction” mostly because the Repubs still have the power to stall or refuse national policy across the board.
Approval ratings for Congress have dipped slightly becuase of a lack of progress–and Congress incudes the Repubs who are working to stiflke progress. On “traditional” Repub policies, after 6 years of absolute Repub rule, the polls show the Democrats favored on every major common issue.
What’s in a name?
Doesn’t General Petreus pronunciation of his name kind of say it all?
Of course bush just went through the ranks weeding out anyone with any integrity till he found the “yes men” he was looking for. Why should he treat the military any different than any other?
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:32 pmPetraeus = Westmoreland Toliver, I am a liberal AND a Vietnam veteran. It is the cowardly draft-dodging conservatives who have contempt for the military.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:32 pmEverything is now a dog and pony show in Washington, DC, so a giant game of baloney is being played as Iraq gets worse daily and more US soldiers dying.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:36 pmHow do you think Petraeus got his stars so quickly? He was a new one-star brigadier just a couple of years ago. Clearly, he is a political general and has risen by toadying to the Rummy/Bush/Cheney crowd. Of course, he has plenty of company.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:39 pmIf the 2008 Republican primary for President were being held today (asked of voters only in Pennsylvania), and the candidates were Sam Brownback, Jim Gilmore, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani, Chuck Hagel, Mike Huckabee, Duncan Hunter, John McCain, George Pataki, Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, Tom Tancredo, Fred Thompson and Tommy Thompson for whom would you vote?
REGISTERED REPUBLICANS ONLY
(top six answers):
Gingrich 8
Guiliani 28
McCain 11
Romney 9
Thompson, F. 10
DK/NA 23
If the 2008 election for President were being held today, and the candidates were Hillary Clinton the Democrat and Rudy Giuliani the Republican, for whom would you vote? (asked of all voters):
Clinton 43%
Giuliani 47
If the 2008 election for President were being held today, and the candidates were Barack Obama the Democrat and Rudy Giuliani the Republican, for whom would you vote? (asked of all voters):
Obama 40%
Giuliani 45
If the 2008 election for President were being held today, and the candidates were Al Gore the Democrat and Rudy Giuliani the Republican, for whom would you vote? (Asked of all voters):
Gore 45%
Giuliani 44
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/ x1327.xml?ReleaseId=1070&ss=print
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:40 pmwhich must be bad news for those that want us to loose.
Comment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
Want us to loose?
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:41 pmPetraeus = Westmoreland Toliver, I am a liberal AND a Vietnam veteran. It is the cowardly draft-dodging conservatives who have contempt for the military.
Are you talking about Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Osama’s extensive military experience?
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pmCertainly Murtha is correct in his assessment. What Murtha has said simply begs for a comparison with Vietnam when, as David Halberstam pointed out in The Best and The Brightest, Colonel John Paul Vann attempted to alert the Joint Chiefs that even as early as 1963 things were going downhill for the United States’s war effort in Vietnam. Before he could give his briefing, Vann was sandbagged by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Maxwell Taylor.
What Petraeus and the other military officers today are doing is being totally supportive of the administration while, like General Taylor, they are not seeing the forest for the trees, which is that the situation in Iraq will become ever more worse as long the U.S. stubbornly and foolishly remains in Iraq.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm[…] this Administration is still run by the Decider in the WH, that the Senate is evenly split and the discontent amongst the “american public is that the Democrats aren’t working hard enough and fast enough to undo 6 years of extraordinary damage done by the Republicans after the passage of only 6 months. […]
Comment by Britisher — June 3, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
it must be easier to see these things from a distance…
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:46 pmsad the the u.s. citizens cannot remember this fact…
…
unbelievable,
Sadly, many on the left would relish a US humiliation/defeat in Iraq. Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:49 pmRumsfeld ‘retired’ the three and four star generals with opposing views. All you have left at the top are Bushie yes-men(?). So is it surprising that those in charge kinda go along with the White House? Rumsfeld, belittled, cajoled, bullied and demoted those who would challenge. Its one form of politicization of the military. They will remain ’stuck on stupid’ until ordered otherwise.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:50 pmWho led us down that path of humiliation? Here’s a hint; he’s an incompetent alcoholic Republican
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:52 pmAre you talking about Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Osama’s extensive military experience?
Comment by m12
No, idiot, we’re referring to the warmongering slackers in the Republican party.
http://tinyurl.com/yve3r
Just too many to list in a post. Go read it.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:54 pmSadly, many on the left would relish a humiliation/defeat in Iraq.
That is utter nonsense.
It’s propaganda you trolls espouse without a single fact to back it up.
Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.
Comment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
Repeating the talking points doesn’t work around here. You have to make a coherent argument and back it up with facts. Can you?
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:56 pmhttp://ccoaler.blogspot.com
Gingrich criticizes Bush, 7 US soldiers dead, Castro healthy
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:57 pmIt’s time, folks! Wake up and smell the coffee! We’ve been betrayed by the democrats who knuckled under to the tyrant when they clearly heard the mandate of the people during the mid-terms. There is no longer a “pass” or misunderstanding on this fact. We no longer have ANY representation in this government we still label as a democracy.
Both parties are complicit in the destruction of our constitution, the protraction of this amoral, heinous war and the genocide of innocent Iraqis and our military by voting to permit it’s continuation.
It’s time for a third party - one which allows the people to be heard. It’s time to reject the party line of both parties since they are nothing but a bunch of war profiteers enabling this charade called Iraq. The chicanery in Washington has now reached unprecedented proportions and the public clearly needs to have their voices heard by the creations of another party….
Our two party system is obsolete and those taking high salaries to be our representatives are in the pockets of corporate rapists of our pocketbooks, our environment, and our democracy. Campaign finance reform is the only way to end the massive corporate “blackmail” so prevalent in our government.
Our electoral system has been an albatross for some time, as we well know. When a president is elected “by the people” in what’s called a “popular vote” and then has his title stolen due to electoral college manipulation and voting machine rigging, then it’s time that we either call this democracy the total sham which it’s become or do something to correct it.
It’s clear that the mandate of the people during the midterms was not heard loudly enough by the Democrats! They sold our votes down the river….and betrayed us just as the Republicans have been doing for 6 long years.
Petreus and the Bush-proclaimed “war czar” are simply the legitimate “FIX” to protract and continue this war against the wishes of the people. This scheme is as as old as the hills and so incredibly transparent that it’s become pure chicanery…..not inventive, not intelligent, but an exercise in buffoonery.
It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee….the people are “being had” by those in power. It’s time to sweep this government clean….sweep congress clean…..and time to form our own party so our voices can be heard.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:57 pmTHIS WAR IS ONLY ABOUT WAR PROFITEERING AND OIL. IT’S ALL IT EVER WAS ABOUT AND IT’S ALL IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE ABOUT….AT THE EXPENSE OF THE SLAUGHTERED INNOCENTS, THE HUGE MONEY WILL GO INTO THE POCKETS OF THE SHAPESHIFTERS WHO FUNCTION IN THE HIGHEST OFFICES IN THIS COUNTRY.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:58 pmContempt for the military is sending the troops into a war based on lies, sending the troops into war without the best armor, cutting veterans benefits, nickle and diming their pay raises, hiring mercenaries at triple the pay, and privatizing vets hospitals.
That’s what “Conservative” Republicans have done…
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:59 pmSadly, many on the left would relish a US humiliation/defeat in Iraq.
that is the stoopid-est, most overused thing anyone can say…
Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.
not the most IMPORTANT, of course, but it’s very confounding
trying to understand those that DON”T feel hatred for what bushCO
has done to this country and it’s CONSTITUTION…
stoopid, lying talking points…
YOU’RE NOT HELPING.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:00 pm.
katy..
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:00 pm.just so you know…I’ve lived in the US for 25 years..my perspective is one of reason, not geography (as you might assume from my moniker).
Murtha has basically helped to sideline the Democrats, in DC, because he is one of them who capitulated on funding the Iraq Fiasco Occupation of Iraq.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:00 pmm12; GOP Chickenhawk club roster; GW Bush(deserter), 5-deferment dickhead Cheney, 7-deferment John “soaring eagle” Ashcroft, Rush Limpdick, Bill O’Leilly, Sean Hannity, Elliott Abrams(Iran-contra convict), Trent Lott, Bill Frist, Dennis fatso Hastert, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, KKK Rove to name a few. Need I continue?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:04 pmunbelievable,
Sadly, many on the left would relish a US humiliation/defeat in Iraq. Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.
Comment by Toliver
Nope. Not true at all. You on the right are so scared of EVERYTHING that you just ‘make shit up’. No proof needed, no evidence offered, no links to review - nothing. Your idiot preznit avoided all common sense and invaded a soverign nation. He took along with him every crony he could find. he gave significant jobs to religous nobodys. Do you see a pattern here? The wrong people, doing the wrong things, for all of the wrong reasons. Libs love the soldiers and wish them the best, but the ‘managers of the war’ are absolute failures. Bush is a lightweight who couldn;t even be a good alcoholic. For you to blindly follow this imbecile off a cliff is frightening for those who think clearly. Has bush made you so scared that all you an do is shut up and worship him? Is that what you think this country is all about? Worshiping ONE MAN! Bush took an oath to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION - not to be your ‘commander guy’. Shheeeshh. Are you really that frightened?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:04 pm“Repeating the talking points doesn’t work around here. You have to make a coherent argument and back it up with facts. Can you?
Comment by unbelievable — June 3, 2007 @ 12:56 pm”
You’re just playing with it aren’t you UB? I’m certain you know tollie wouldn’t have made the comments it’s already made if it were capable of doing what you ask, hehehehehe. Good to run into you my friend:)
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:06 pm#14-m12. george bushit, rove, cheney and you are very big chickens and little tiny hawks.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:06 pm“many on the left would relish a US humiliation/defeat in Iraq”–Toliver.
Hmmm..
They will greet us with sweets and flowers.
In one year there will be a square in Bagdhad with Bush’s name on it.
The war will cost the US 1.7 billion, the reconstruction will cost $20 billion and be paid for by Iraqi oil revenues.
Democracy will flourish in the middle east.
The world will be a safer place.
I doubt it will last 6 months
Humiliation and defeat has been ours for 4 years, thanks to this administration and no-one is relishing it
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:09 pmYou’re just playing with it aren’t you UB?
Pretty much :D
Good to run into you my friend:)
Comment by Quadrajet — June 3, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
You too… Always miss you when you’re absent. Hope you’ve been busy with a raging social life :D
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:10 pm“facts on the ground”
???
How about bloody bodies on the ground?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:10 pmm12; GOP Chickenhawk club roster; GW Bush(deserter), 5-deferment dickhead Cheney, 7-deferment John “soaring eagle†Ashcroft, Rush Limpdick, Bill O’Leilly, Sean Hannity, Elliott Abrams(Iran-contra convict), Trent Lott, Bill Frist, Dennis fatso Hastert, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, KKK Rove to name a few. Need I continue?
Comment by Uncle Ho
Pffftt, is that all?
Heh. Hi, Uncle Ho. :-)
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:10 pm“Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.”
no, calling him, and petraeus for that matter, on their b.s. is the most important thing. this is from October 2004:
“Now Jamie, both the president and Senator Kerry agree that part of the solution for getting out of Iraq is to turn over security to the Iraqis. The president said that is already well under way.
Let’s listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The best way for Iraq to be safe and secure is for Iraqi citizens to be trained to do the job. And that’s what we’re doing. We’ve got 100,000 trained now, 125,000 by the end of this year, over 200,000 by the end of next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Jamie, are those numbers right?
MCINTYRE: There’s a big dispute, Paula, about whether the Pentagon is overstating the number of Iraqis that are truly combat ready.
But the general who’s in charge of the training, very respected general, General Petraeus, insists that 100,000 is the right number out of 164,000 in Iraq.”
those numbers were total shite and pointing that out has nothing to do with “hating bush”.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:11 pmAnd by the way, The Sunni “Anbar Awakening†is spreading, which must be bad news for those that want us to loose.
Comment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
It is even better for those of us smart enough to know that the “Anbar Awakening” would have happened long ago if we would have left long ago.
The Iraqis are getting tired of us building shopping centers in the green zone and putting up $592 million embassies. They know that we are only there for the oil, so they are standing up for themselves.
So, while you think the “Anbar Awakening” is a victory for you, it is a victory for us and means our troops may come home sooner.
That is unless your idiot in chief doesn’t recognize his out.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:12 pmTroll activity is increasing on TP threads, since the Democrat leadership caved on Iraq funding, so Karl Rove has decided to launch an offensive operation on the blogs to smash the last resistence to endless warfare.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 pm#29
I’ll continue for you:
Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Queen Pelosi, Keith Olbermann, Harry Reid, Steny Hoyer.
Need I continue?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 pmWhat have we become? So, I can’t call a person who is obviously lying a liar? Why? because the liar is a General? Screw that. Mutha is the bravest we have, and even he couches his statements with talk-around-the-truth politeness.
All of the Generals who were competent have quit or been retired. Petraeus is a 4th tier military talent, at best. More importantly, he is a liar and a political yes-man - neithe characteristic is a good attribute for a General.
I’ll say it plainly: it is obvious to the honest observer, that Patraeus will lie for (undetermined) personal gain, to the detriment of the troops he commands.
You have to stand up to these criminals.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:18 pmmy perspective is one of reason, not geography (as you might assume from my moniker).
Comment by Britisher — June 3, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
yes, of course i assumed, from your moniker…
the reasonable perspective is obvious, should be from anywhere…
but it’s not pronounced often enough - a lot has happened in these
6 months, but the dems have only just begun cleaning up…
and it’s been more like 12 years, longer…
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:20 pmboggles the mind…
Hiay Zooey! For a more complete listing go to http://www.AWOLBUSH.com It lists Dems & Repubs who did/did not serve. Off to an open house. check back later.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pmObama, Pelosi, and Olbermann can’t be chickenhawks since they didn’t vote for the war….
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:24 pmhow did olbermann get lumped in that group, anyway?
hahaha… that was funny… and rosie, don’t forget rosie…
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmmichael moore, sean penn… who else… …duh…
if rove is stepping up the troll attacks he needs to find trolls with more imagination and wit and less “party line” bullshit. they’re not even good enough to be amusing.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:32 pm“How can you say when none of the economic things have gotten better? How can you say when they haven’t done the political things they need to do and they keep putting it off? How can you say when their parliament is in recess during a period when our people are dying and in harm’s way? How can you say you’re making progress?â€
Yeah, Murtha, how could you voted for Bush’s blank check to continue the U.S. occupation in Iraq?
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:34 pmPffftt, is that all?
Heh. Hi, Uncle Ho. :-)
Comment by Zooey
Pfui. I am insult. I posted a link to a very comprehensive list back at comment 20.
I’m going off in high dudgeon.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 pmIt makes me sick how people will support this war, while our soldiers and countless innocent Iraquis are dying and an entire country is being decimated and all they can think about is “winning”
you CAN NOT win a war against an idealogical enemy. There is no focused enemy to attack, there is no battlefield to bomb! This is a war against INDIVIDUALS that have no central ideal (other than hating the US and all Westerners) nor is there a central battle zone! These individuals are EVERYWHERE in every country! The entire approach has been nothing but fuel to the fire and has done nothing but INCREASE the terror threat here and WORLDWIDE.
All of this due to having a stubborn, egotistical, immature elitist at the helm.
If there is a hell, all of the executive branch of this administration belongs there.
Their buddy Falwell will be waiting.
the shortsightedness of neocons is mind boggling, they are the true enemy and function exactly like the Jihadist they fear.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:40 pmI’m going off in high dudgeon.
Comment by gummitch
Don’t forget to eat a worm!
:-D
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:42 pmI’m going off in high dudgeon.
Comment by gummitch
Don’t forget to eat a worm!
:-D
Comment by Zooey
You add insult to insult! I double my dudgeon! No, I treble it!
I would kick a republican if there was one to be found within walking distance.
Pah.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmI would kick a republican if there was one to be found within walking distance.
Pah.
Comment by gummitch
Aw, you’d just hurt your toe — eat two worms!
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmThe Bush-GOP Scandal Documents Center has been expanded to include the latest news, key reports, document releases and other essential materials surrounding Bush administration and GOP wrong-doing. From the U.S. attorneys purge, Plamegate, and illegal NSA domestic surveillance to Iraq intelligence manipulation, torture scandals and the ongoing Jack Abramoff fall-out, it’s all there:
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:53 pm“The Bush-GOP Scandal Documents Center.”
“Unfortunately, Murtha is right. Petraeus, and other military officers, have a history of supporting the administration line, despite the facts on the ground.”
! ! ! ! What’s all this bullshit? ! ! ! !
“*Unfortunately*, Murtha is right.”
What is so “unfortunate”, Matt? That you share the opinion of a big, bad Republican. Matt, you’re a little bitch, nuncle.
And what was it that he was right about?
A GENERAL SUPPORTING THE ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!
Sirrah, you’re second string, right nuncle?
You anti-American, anarchic slant is blatantly obvious.
little bitch.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:55 pmjustice,
You are correct that one cannot win a war against an idealogical enemy and there is a core of Americans that would embrace anything this President does no matter how harmful to our country.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:55 pmIt has to do with personal ego, they can’t admit to anybody that Dubya has so utterly failed this country.
Erratum post #54) omit the following: “What is so “unfortunateâ€, Matt? That you share the opinion of a big, bad Republican.”
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:58 pm“Well, that’s fine, since the American people have lost confidence in the useless Democrats in Congress.
Comment by m12 — June 3, 2007 @ 11:42 am”
lol, still sore from getting your ass handed to you in the midterm elections i see
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:02 pm“What is so “unfortunateâ€, Matt? That you share the opinion of a big, bad Republican.â€
Hey d!ckhead, you didn’t finish your sentence:
“What is so “unfortunateâ€, Matt? That you share the opinion of a big, bad Republican, who has been 100% wrong in every decision he has made.”
Republican has nothing to do with it. 100% wrong has everything to do with it. Dumb fu*k.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:05 pmIt is very unfortunate for the nation that Gen Petraeus has risen quickly in the ranks because he learned early on that being a yes-man to President AWOL is the road toward more stars on his shoulders, more ribbons on his chest and the future award of the medal of freedom. His grandchildren can look at them with pride - but will they know he gave his country and his soldiers to an unethical president who waged an illegal and immoral war involving thousands and thousands of soldiers in a no-win situation — all because of a goal to control oil supplies, and satisfy the enormous egos of those at the top, including Petraeus himself, who could have stood up to Bush, but cowed instead.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:06 pmMr Polident, sir?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:09 pmYou’re beginning to spit and spew somewhat as you post, sir.
May I suggest you come down to the kitchen, and have a dish of ice scream while I send out for another tube of adhesive for you, sir?
Sir?
Comment by Spudge_Boy — June 3, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Sorry sirrah, but I omitted taht sentence, nuncle.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:11 pmComment by WH Chief of Staph — June 3, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Thou art not altogether wise, as much foolery as I have so much wit thou lackest.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 pm“Mr Polident, sir?
You’re beginning to spit and spew somewhat as you post, sir.
Comment by WH Chief of Staph”
maybe he’s choking on a pretzel. again.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:18 pmMr President.
Seen as you have not, in the least bit, adressed an argument, and you have demonstrated the level of coherent thought more commonly ascociated with that of a baboon, may I kindly ask what your major malfunction is?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:23 pmunbelievable, Tom and others,
You’d like a link to back up my claim that many hate Bush so much they’d like to see us lose?
Look no farther than the comments here, Kos and HuffPo.
Glad I could be of help.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 pmComment by pgw — June 3, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Sirrah, take my advice:
Cheweth not all that thou eateth
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:25 pmKnoweth not all that thou speaketh
.
.
.
Umm…
Didn’t Murtha actually vote “YES” for the recent War Spending Bill?
.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:27 pm.
.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
The jacka$$ who wrote the blurb for this thread, I believe his name is Matt (a second string writer for TP), has an anti-American, anarchic slant (by the way, I HAVE already said this, nuncle).
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:28 pmMr President.
Seen as you have not, in the least bit, adressed an argument…
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
Sirrah, you have not introduced my to an argument.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:29 pmToliver
So, because liberals do not support a course of action which they see as being detrimental to America, they are anti-America. Yeah sure, and those of us on earth kind of noticed that you are a moron.
Mr. President
So your advice is basically: We should speak freely without considering whether we know what the hell we are talking about. It kind of explains some of your more idiotic posts I suppose.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:30 pmDoes Mr P need to sober up?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmMr. President,
Why do you hate America?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmMr. President
Which is simply a base accusation. It is not an argument. Indeed, all I see of your statement, is name calling and thus, as it is not an argument but simply schoolyard taunts, and contains nothing worthy of a rebuttal, I have to treat it accordingly.
Thus I say that you, sirrah, as this appears to be your intellectual level, that you are a doodoo head.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmMr. President
So your advice is basically: We should speak freely without considering whether we know what the hell we are talking about. It kind of explains some of your more idiotic posts I suppose.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
actually, sirrah, the point of that post was:
Cheweth not all that thou eateth, nuncle.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 pmComment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
100% correct.
Not just that, but they have no reason to hate him.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:34 pmCheweth not all that thou eateth
MY mom always said “chew your food -
your stomach doesn’t have teeth!”
…
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:35 pmMr. President
Which is simply a base accusation. It is not an argument. Indeed, all I see of your statement, is name calling and thus, as it is not an argument but simply schoolyard taunts, and contains nothing worthy of a rebuttal, I have to treat it accordingly.
Thus I say that you, sirrah, as this appears to be your intellectual level, that you are a doodoo head.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
What comment are you referencing, nuncle?
Don’t just put shit on the page, sirrah, you aren’t making sense.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:36 pmDoes Mr P need to sober up?
Comment by Zooey — June 3, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
What light through yonder window breaks?
It is the east, and Zooey is the sun!
seriously, seriously… Zooey… will you maryy me?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:38 pmComment by Texas Democrat — June 3, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
You are a whoremaster and a knave, nuncle.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:41 pm“You’d like a link to back up my claim that many hate Bush so much they’d like to see us lose?
Look no farther than the comments here, Kos and HuffPo.”
maybe, if by “lose” you mean “implement a foreign policy that’s only slightly more informed than an episode of ‘F Troop’ or playing ‘Risk’ while drunk”. this administration’s ideas are just as shortsighted as the dulles brothers’ pushing the shah back into iran in the ’50s as well as the reagan administration’s brilliant idea to flood iraq and afghanistan with weapons and support in the ’80s.
the i.s.g. pointed out that saudi money is flowing into the sunni insurgents in iraq (you know, the ones who are responsible for the majority of american military casualties); yet, the current administration has looked the other way. it seems like the bush administration doesn’t want to see us “win.”
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:43 pmit seems like the bush administration doesn’t want to see us “win.â€
That comment is closer to the truth than the repugs claim that Dems want us to lose.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmIf we never “win”, we can justify being there forever.
“Unfortunately, Murtha is right. Petraeus, and other military officers, have a history of supporting the administration line, despite the facts on the ground.â€
! ! ! ! What’s all this bullshit? ! ! ! !
“*Unfortunately*, Murtha is right.â€
What is so “unfortunateâ€, Matt? That you share the opinion of a big, bad Republican. Matt, you’re a little bitch, nuncle.
And what was it that he was right about?
A GENERAL SUPPORTING THE ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!
Sirrah, you’re second string, right nuncle?
You anti-American, anarchic slant is blatantly obvious.
little bitch.
Comment by Mr. President — June 3, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Thus I have to posit that you do not have an argument. Particularly given that the quote you took states “despite the facts on the ground” as a qualifier.
Which is to say that generals when considering their advice to congress, the senate, or indeed the president, do so in a manner which does not rely upon a political bias towards supporting the current administration, but rather upon an objective view of the said facts.
It does nobody any good if the general is yes-man to the president, you need someone who will tell the truth. This is obvious to anyone with half a brain - you want honest advice not dishonest encouragement.
As you do not in fact adress this, nor do you seemingly take cognisence of just what Matt said, I can only assume that your repeated ad-hominem attacks, are based partially on the large quantities you have consumed or the fact that you are a total moron.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 pmhe should have lost “a lot” of confidence in pelosi and reid.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:49 pmIt does nobody any good if the general is yes-man to the president, you need someone who will tell the truth. This is obvious to anyone with half a brain - you want honest advice not dishonest encouragement.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
This is very, very true. But does matt know more about “the facts on the ground” then the general?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pmseriously, seriously… Zooey… will you maryy me?
Comment by Mr. President
Will it shut you up? Or will you require assistance?
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:56 pm#5 Now you can safely pretend to value the words of the generals, after the rest of them were fired for actually commenting realistically on the status of things. As you say, typical.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:00 pmMurtha should expect this from this general or any other general.
Generals work under the President,and that’s their job.
But Mr. Murtha…you work to represent people…
You should not depend on military generals only to form your opinion and decisions…you should have an independent opinion…
In war and peace time also decisions should not be a party line decisions..but instead what is good for the country.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pmMr. President
The question actually is: Does Murtha (Read the article) who has read the intellegence reports, know enough of the facts of the ground to be able to point out a strong yes-man bias in Petreaus.
This is not a question of what Petreaus knows or doesn’t know, but rather how much one can trust him to make a decent assessment based on that knowledge.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pmErratum: post #84) last line should read - ‘ground” than the general?’
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:01 pmWill it shut you up? Or will you require assistance?
Comment by Mistress Z — June 3, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks, baby. I gotta be free!
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:02 pmThe question actually is: Does Murtha (Read the article) who has read the intellegence reports, know enough of the facts of the ground to be able to point out a strong yes-man bias in Petreaus.
This is not a question of what Petreaus knows or doesn’t know, but rather how much one can trust him to make a decent assessment based on that knowledge.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Okay, if that is the question you want to address, fine (Even though that is not what MY original point was).
Let’s think does report-boy know more than the general?
I would have to say, and this is just a common-sense answer… NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmBruce,
Where did I say “anti-America”? Do you have a guilty conscience?
—————————–
In case you haven’t noticed, the Sunnis have started to change their direction. Google “Anbar Awakening”.
In your first paragraph you’re saying we shouldn’t have fought the Soviets during the Cold War and that we shouldn’t have been concerned about Iran her radical behaviour?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pmComment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
And just how do you suppose these intellence reports come to be?
Does report-boy conjure them up them up at from his arm-chair?
Or do ya think they are actually based on observation from the ground?… you know, where the general is.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:09 pmYou can’t teach an old dog new tricks, baby. I gotta be free!
Comment by Mr. President
Like I said, Mr P, sober up.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 pmIf you answer the commander guy’s questions with a ‘yes sir’ you will get that fourth star and become one of his military commanders on the ground on their knees bent over conditions on the ground in Iraq that the decider guy listens to and a fall guy for the advice you parroted back to him.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 pmYou have put your finger on what irks me about Murdoch’s billion dollar mainstream media empire. It calls itself unbiased then it’s not. Murdoch admitted he tried to skew public opinion on the war through his media empire. Anyone who cares to know anything about Fox, regardless of their POV, should have watched Outfoxed long ago - and how it exposed the daily partisan talking points memos. We all know how Fox called the election in 2000 only to later admit it shamefully had no basis to do so and was on the phone with the Bush campaign that night. We know how Fox and the Swifties fed off each other to bring down Kerry based on relentlessly hyping unsubstantiated charges, which were kind of funny given our President’s own record in not even showing up in Vietnam.
And we have seen the studies that Fox turned those districts in which it broadcast in 2000 (when it did not yet cover the whole nation) 2 or 3 points to the right to make possible Bush taking the election.
And we should have seen newshounds.com which summarizes the partisanness of Fox on a daily basis.
Let’s also not forget that our White House spokesperson is a Fox “news” person.
So basically for Fox to call itself “Fair and balanced” is a joke. Unfortunately it’s one that many in our country believe. Fox has pulled the rest of the networks and the whole country with it to the right. People like Greg Palast can’t get a job working for a US media outlet and the US media totally ignore or marginalize to zero his stories which make the front page all over Europe. Seymour Hersch at the New Yorker also can’t get a job working for a newspaper - and there is a man with connections deep inside our military and our government doing important reporting.
You don’t like Palast or Hersch or think they are sometimes wrong? Were they anywhere as near as wrong as our lapdog media in lapping up the Bush Administration’s garbage about the imminent threat in Iraq??? Were they anywhere nearly as wrong as our mainstream medcia, led by Fox along with all the rest, in calling the 2000 election with no basis at all to do so? Puuulllhhheeeesse! You’ve got to be kidding me in criticizing the accuracy of these people just because Palast won’t turn over all his emails. You’re going to have to give me a whole whole lot more than that to make me think these people are anywhere near as incompetent, sloppy, and partisan as our mainstream media. I’d trust Palast and Hersch any day over any media organization in the United States. Period.
Please someone prove me wrong. We’ve been talking about this all day. Just give me some facts. I know it’s very hard for the right wing to stop whining about ideology and to actually get practical and provide facts to support their boy in a bubble right-wing view of life, but just this once can someone please provide some facts.
Show me how Palast or Hersch did anything or misreported anything that rises anywhere near the level of just one whopper of the mainstream media - calling the 2000 election against Gore with no basis at all at the time. Please show me. And if you don’t we will know exactly what you’ve got.
Have a nice day.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:12 pmI’m not a troll, but I couldn’t even listen to Murtha this morning. When he first spoke out he gave me such great hope that I cried, now he is just another justifyer.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pmBruce,
Where did I say “anti-America� Do you have a guilty conscience?
—————————–
Comment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
I was the one who said “anti-America” bruce slipped up, or he is a masochist and wants us both to tear his arguments to shreds.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:13 pm“In case you haven’t noticed, the Sunnis have started to change their direction.”
tell that to the families of the american soldiers who’ve died in the last 4 years because of those sunni insurgents, all while the administration babied the saudi government.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:15 pmThese trolls are getting out of control.
**Perhaps climate change has made their under -bridge homes too hot, thus they decided to invade our world?**
;)
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm**Perhaps climate change has made their under -bridge homes too hot, thus they decided to invade our world?**
Comment by trueblue
I’m certain all trolls would deny under-bridge warming.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:23 pmWhy do the neocon nutlicking trolls support more of our troops dying for absoutely nothing?!
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:23 pmThere is no way imposing “democracy” by the barrel of a gun is ever going to work.
Bad idea to start, bad outcome to finish.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
And just how do you suppose these intellence reports come to be?
Does report-boy conjure them up them up at from his arm-chair?
Or do ya think they are actually based on observation from the ground?… you know, where the general is.
Comment by Mr. President — June 3, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
From spies on the ground, who happen to work for the CIA which is a different branch of the US armed services to the American army. They also come from reporters on the ground, and the Iraqi government.
Thus far, you have nothing.
As to tolliver:
Sadly, many on the left would relish a US humiliation/defeat in Iraq. Hating Bush is the most important thing to them you see.
Comment by Toliver — June 3, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
That is where he accuses those who disagree with Bush as being anti-America.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm“In your first paragraph you’re saying we shouldn’t have fought the Soviets during the Cold War and that we shouldn’t have been concerned about Iran her radical behaviour?”
that is a false dilemma and a surprisingly good example of the bad decision-making that has dominated repub foreign policy for a long time. if you’re nostalgic for the cold war, i’ve got good news for you:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin warned that U.S. plans to build a missile defense system in Eastern Europe would force Moscow to target its weapons against Europe.”
if you like irony, google “I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy” or “I was able to get a sense of his soul”.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:26 pmLOL, Zooey!
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:26 pmBad idea to start, bad outcome to finish.
Comment by RUCerious
If they stop supporting the war, then that means they were wrong to support the war, and like their neo-con masters, they can never be wrong.
Or, they might have to start thinking for themselves, and that ain’t happening.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:27 pmWell, that’s fine, since the American people have lost confidence in the useless Democrats in Congress.
Comment by m12 — June 3, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I guess you are referring to the Democratic Party being stonewalled by the rubbernecked rethuglicans, better known as the do nothings for the past twelve years….or the Democratic Party being vetoed by the drunken asshole in the white house, the commander guy?
Get a life Sparky…the Democrats are having to clean up twelve years of shit laid down by the do nothing, crooks, liars, and cowards of the GOP. I know you and the rest of the losers in the 28% don’t have the ability to face reality. Blame everything but do not ever accept responsibility for your own actions…to most that is known as delusion.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pmOr do ya think they are actually based on observation from the ground?… you know, where the general is.
Comment by Mr. President — June 3, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
From spies on the ground, who happen to work for the CIA which is a different branch of the US armed services to the American army. They also come from reporters on the ground, and the Iraqi government.
Thus far, you have nothing.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Actually, you’re just reiterating what I had already said (see above where I write “based on observation from the ground”).
So, if I have nothing, and you can only repeat what I have already stated, then what do you have, nuncle?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:29 pmFwd to: Mr. President
Thinkprogress has reassigned Jordan and Matt to cleaning duty following recent reports in question. TP apologizes for the over-confidence in part-time tree-huggers.
(SATIRE ONLY)
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pmHow many generals told Dubya that it was a losing cause before he found one who said he would try? Just use some logic. The Generals work for the Pentagon and the commander guy is their boss. Murtha has over thiry years military service. He is speaking the truth…Dubya cherry picks the generals who will kiss hiss boots.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:32 pmFwd to: Mr. President
Thinkprogress has reassigned Jordan and Matt to cleaning duty following recent reports in question. TP apologizes for the over-confidence in part-time tree-huggers.
(SATIRE ONLY)
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 3, 2007 @ 3:30 pm
CT!!! You NEVER have to indicate when you are doing satire, I thought you knew that. If some of these jerks don’t get it, screw ‘em.
I… I don’t know what to think about you any more.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:33 pmWhy is it that every time I try to conjure up an image for a particular troll, the only face I see is Alfred E. Neuman?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 pmbckwd to: all progressive posters
Mr. Poopervent has been incapacitited this afternoon due to inebriation, and has been replaced by BungHOLER 4-U
SINCERITY TRULY
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmMr. President
You seem to have this strange belief that geography dictates agreement. If the spies on the ground, “Where the general is” (More likely in various different places all across Iraq, including areas the General isn’t) write reports that contradict what the general has to say, don’t you think that maybe that General’s statements may be just a wee bit questionable?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmMr P,
Maybe you and your new friend can find a nice SATIRE blog on which to comment.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pmComment by Mr. President
Mr. President, please accept my apologies. Had I not indicated “SATIRE ONLY” TP may have taken it as an impersonation and deleted my post. Just my thought. I will not, however indicate “SATIRE AGAIN” in the future. TP will have to get over it.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pmI… I don’t know what to think about you any more.
Comment by Mr. President — June 3, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
(You know I’ve tried to caution you about the “thinking” thing, George…)
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmMr. President
You provided an either/or question. I answered it. You see this as some sort of victory, I see you as some sort of stupid.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pmHmmm. We’ve known for quite a while that the surge is just a way for Bush to grind up more soldiers in his dufus death machine.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:40 pmHow could a general, whose first loyalty should be to his troops, become such a sell out political whore? Really, who could have predicted that?
Mr. President,
Don’t you get the feeling that my impersonators are bums? I mean, they want my CompTROLLER V-1 revolutionary development, yet they can’t afford it, so they take their anger out on me!
WHY!!!!!!!!!!?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pmWhy is it that every time I try to conjure up an image for a particular troll, the only face I see is Alfred E. Neuman?
Comment by RUCerious
Why do you hate Alfred E. Neuman?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 pmWhy is it that every time I try to conjure up an image for a particular troll, the only face I see is Alfred E. Neuman?
Comment by RUCerious — June 3, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
I guess, Alfred does kinda look like GW Bush with missing teeth.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmpgw,
You mean the “bad decision-making” that won the cold War? Most post-Carter dems were of little help in that regard. Modern liberalism was wrong then, and may be wrong again. We’ll see.
I said you’re hatred for Bush has made you want us to lose in Iraq. The far-left just loves anything that hurts Bush. I think BDS has your priorities out of whack.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmU.S. announces 14 troop deaths in Iraq
BAGHDAD - Fourteen American soldiers were killed in three deadly days in Iraq, the U.S. military said Sunday, including four in a single roadside bombing and one who was struck by a suicide bomber while on a foot patrol southwest of the capital.
http://news.yahoo.com/ 15 minutes ago
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 3, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
You know I could never stay made at my favorite CompTroller, I forgive you.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:44 pmI’m seeking to open a food joint called the Left-Wing drive-thru, and I’m looking for a business partner. Anyone interested? Any ideas?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm3494……..
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm3494……..
Comment by Tobey Tall
Unforgiveable.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmmistress Z~!
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmI have a soft spot for Alfred, but he’s just such a paradigm of stupidity that these trolls emulate hourly.
Mr. President
You provided an either/or question. I answered it. You see this as some sort of victory, I see you as some sort of stupid.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Sirrah, what the f*ck are you talking about, nuncle?
I never said anything about a victory.
YOU were the one who said, and I quote “Thus far, you have nothing.”
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmWhen in fact, I had already made the point that you posited as a “refutation,” TO THE VERY POINT I HAD ALREADY MADE!!!
I’m seeking to open a food joint called the Left-Wing drive-thru, and I’m looking for a business partner. Anyone interested? Any ideas?
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 3, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Yeah, Michael Moore.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pmgummitch-sorry ’bout that, here, eat a whole can of worms. :-D
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pmDoes Mr. P need to sober up?- comment by Zooey.
No use Zooey, he’s drunk on all that piss & vinegar and bathing in golden showers from the George W. Bush circle jerk sessions.
Toliver
GW Bush is going to be gone soon. He will no longer be president, sooner or later, depending on whether he gets impeached or just serves out his time.
Then the Democrats are going to be in charge of all three houses, and chances are America is still going to be in the middle of a massively unpopular war, which wasn’t particularly popular at its outset, and it is still going to be wrong.
Bush right now, is only relevant insofar as he is an obsticle to doing anything concrete in Iraq, be it introducing a draft and putting in the troop levels that Iraq really requires, or withdrawing from Iraq and cutting America’s losses.
You seem to believe that Bush is the basis as to why we are against his decisions, his decisions are why we are against Bush. Iraq is a massively unpopular war, you could change governments and it would still be a massively unpopular war there is a massive amount of anger towards the Democrats for continuing this unpopular war.
But no, you have to trivialise it, by claiming that people who are against the war, are only against it because Bush declared it.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmUS told to toe line on climate
Britain and Germany yesterday joined forces to warn President George Bush that talks on climate change must take place within a United Nations framework and not in an ad hoc process floated last week by Bush.
As violent protesters clashed with police in Rostock ahead of next week’s G8 summit in Germany, Washington was warned that Britain and Europe will not tolerate a separate process.
Their comments came as 146 police officers were injured when up to 2,000 protesters threw bottles, sticks and stones at riot police in the Baltic port of Rostock, near Heiligendamm, the location of this week’s G8 summit. The rioting erupted after a much larger demonstration, attended by 25,000 people, passed off peacefully. Bush was the subject of the usual taunts.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/ politics/ story/ 0,,2094361,00.html
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmDon’t you get the feeling that my impersonators are bums? I mean, they want my CompTROLLER V-1 revolutionary development, yet they can’t afford it, so they take their anger out on me!
WHY!!!!!!!!!!?
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 3, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Strange??
I wonder why none of the CT V - 2 through 24s have shown up in a while?
Where could they all be?
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmJeeebuzzsaw, it seems like a month or so ago we hit 3,000.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:54 pmRatFu(kingBastards, effing rot in hades, all of you.
Comment by Uncle Ho — June 3, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
Watch yerr language around my fiancee, nuncle.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:55 pmnews years night the total US deatsh was 3000 …………now 3494 ,,,,,,, as bush will say its just a number
EXPECT SOME NEWS FLASH IN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS TO BLOCK 3500 news
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm“You mean the “bad decision-making†that won the cold War? Most post-Carter dems were of little help in that regard. Modern liberalism was wrong then, and may be wrong again. We’ll see.”
The Cold War was non-violent and the ending of it had little to do with anything Reagan did. The CIA was predicting the downfall of the Soviet Union for years because their system of government could not sustain itself and the people outside of Moscow were growing tired of it.
“I said you’re hatred for Bush has made you want us to lose in Iraq. The far-left just loves anything that hurts Bush. I think BDS has your priorities out of whack.”
I would say your blind support of Bush has been detrimental to America. His foreign policy has been a disaster and probably is the worst foreign policy decision made by any president. And in my opinion, he should be charged with war crimes.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pmAnd just how do you suppose these intellence reports come to be?
Does report-boy conjure them up them up at from his arm-chair?
Or do ya think they are actually based on observation from the ground?… you know, where the general is.
Comment by Mr. President — June 3, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Either or. I stated the second. You don’t have anything - just because they are from the same general region of the world as the general is doesn’t mean they agree with him. The question is over Petreaus’ obectivity, which is as much a reflection on how he is processing the information as it is on what information he has available. Your so-called “point” simply doesn’t seem to address anything.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pmunfortunately we can now see that the true agenda Bush had was to establish a permanent presence in the middle east, despite what he told us. He created a pack of lies and the media spoon fed the public his lies and now here we are. We don’t just have the LARGEST embassy in the world being built but we have created dozens of small “cities” surrounded by razor wire to keep the Iraqi people out. All of this was done in a SOVERIGN NATION.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmWe now can’t “leave” we will have to maintain troops there in some way, on some level and that was his plan. He created this mess on PURPOSE so that we couldn’t leave. I can only hope we can find some way to pull back and change course to a more peaceful approach, but that seems impossible at this point considering the level of hostility towards us ( for good reason) how can they trust us to help rebuild? we need Al Gore in the Whie house and a whole new POV to try to solve this disaster.
There is nothing to “win” here. It was a lost cause from the start.
No use Zooey, he’s drunk on all that piss & vinegar and bathing in golden showers from the George W. Bush circle jerk sessions.
Comment by Uncle Ho
That was a hell of a Saturday night for Mr P. I hope his mom doesn’t find out.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmBruce,
That post of yours is kinda Kreskin-like. Let’s not predict the unpredictable, OK?
I really find the hate so many on the far-left feel for Bush is not healthy. All one has to do is read the posts here for proof of it for Christs sake. The funny thing is that he’s not even worthy of your hate as he’s not even a conservative. The proof is in his budgets.
———————
Huh? The Cold War was very effing violent my friend, and CIA didn’t predict the USSR’s unwinding.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm“You mean the “bad decision-making†that won the cold War?”
you’re right. there were no short-sighted, far-reaching negative externalities that came out of pumping weapons into afghanistan in the ’80s. the people of new york city salute you.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmstarting Monday 21st May 2007
Monday: 111 Iraqis Killed, 217 Wounded
Tuesday: 104 Iraqis Killed, 116 Wounded
Wednesday 9 GIs, 122 Iraqis Dead
Thursday: 101 Iraqis, 6 GIs Killed; 81 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 6 GIs, 34 Iraqis Killed; 38 Iraqis Wounded
Saturday 8 GIs, 91 Iraqis Dead, 116 Iraqis Wounded
Sunday: 3 GIs, 88 Iraqis Killed; 52 Iraqis Wounded
Monday: 123 Iraqis Killed, 233 Wounded
Tuesday: 13 GIs, 169 Iraqis Killed; 146 Iraqis Wounded
Wednesday: 4 GIs, 66 Iraqis Killed; 97 Wounded
Thursday: 3 GIs, 82 Iraqis Killed; 88 Iraqis Wounded
Friday: 3 GIs, 81 Iraqis Killed, 87 Iraqis Injured
Saturday: 2 GIs, 78 Iraqis Killed; 59 Iraqis Injured
Sunday: 14 GIs, 45 Iraqis Reported Killed
The fact is, war is started by old men who never go near the war, and wars are always fought by the young. The king of Belgium once noted that it takes 20 years of peace to produce a man and 20 seconds of war to destroy him. Think about that. All that a young human being is – intelligence, health, youth, education, knowledge, potential accomplishments – reduced to a bloody pile of broken bones and guts in an instant. They are strangers killing and being killed by strangers.
War is mass murder, and no doubt part of the degradation of the human species is the fact that starting with the War Between the States, the human toll of war has increased exponentially. It’s ironic that wars take the healthiest and bravest, while the unhealthy and the cowardly manage to evade them.
Look at all the draft dodgers of the Vietnam Era who suddenly became war hawks as soon as they were too old to go. I’ve said it before: If I had children of war age, I would do everything in my power to dissuade them from joining the military.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmWhy did we go to war in Iraq? Because the president hated Saddam Hussein; because the Israeli lobby wanted us to; because the crazy neoconservatives had the insane idea that the Middle East could be democratized at the point of a gun; because oil companies and other corporations lusted for profit.
Missing is any threat to the safety and freedom of the United States, a threat no Iraqi ever made or ever had the capability of carrying out. So, if you don’t want to say the kids are dying for nothing, you can say they are dying for Halliburton, for ExxonMobil, for the president’s ego, for a cockamamie theory of a bunch of academics, for Israel, for money or for oil. What you cannot truthfully say is that they are dying for freedom.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm“Or do ya think they are actually based on observation from the ground?… you know, where the general is.”
you’ve got a point, but let’s check the general’s track record—from October 2004, when the general’s boss, coincidentally, was running for re-election:
“Now Jamie, both the president and Senator Kerry agree that part of the solution for getting out of Iraq is to turn over security to the Iraqis. The president said that is already well under way.
Let’s listen to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The best way for Iraq to be safe and secure is for Iraqi citizens to be trained to do the job. And that’s what we’re doing. We’ve got 100,000 trained now, 125,000 by the end of this year, over 200,000 by the end of next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: Jamie, are those numbers right?
MCINTYRE: There’s a big dispute, Paula, about whether the Pentagon is overstating the number of Iraqis that are truly combat ready.
But the general who’s in charge of the training, very respected general, General Petraeus, insists that 100,000 is the right number out of 164,000 in Iraq.â€
thus the lack of credibility for petraeus.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pmComment by Tobey Tall — June 3, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
You need to be schooled by BnF. Look at her report in the Giuliani thread last night that responds to Eric.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pmComment by Bruce Gorton — June 3, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
Good, now we are making progress.
If genP objectivity is in question, then so must be the objectivity of Murtha, correct?
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pmSick of Their Government
BAGHDAD, Jun 1 (IPS) - Reports of the poor health among high-ranking Iraqi politicians are being seen as symbolic of the popular mood here about the U.S.-backed government.
Meanwhile, Shi’ite leader Abdul Azizi al-Hakim, leader of Iraq’s largest Shia party, recently arrived in Iran for treatment for lung cancer after being diagnosed at a hospital in the southern U.S. state of Texas.
This development, in particular, is expected to create chaos within the Supreme Islamic Council in Iraq, the political organisation the George W. Bush administration has counted on to push through legislation, particularly regarding the new Iraqi oil law.
http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/ hard_news/ archives/ iraq/ 000596.php#more
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pmand he has built his own private military to boot.
a shadow war, a shadow army.
we have fundamentalist jesus camps right here at home churning out more and more narrow minded bigots with an agenda every DAY. Most of these folks have no intelligent understanding of what “liberal” even means, but they do know they hate them in the name of god and blame them for all the worlds ills.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pmscary stuff.
But the general who’s in charge of the training, very respected general, General Petraeus, insists that 100,000 is the right number out of 164,000 in Iraq.â€
thus the lack of credibility for petraeus.
Comment by pgw — June 3, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
Hearsay!
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pmDude, Toby is a troll.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pmDude, Toby is a troll.
Comment by Mr. President
Tobey is not a troll.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pmComment by Mistress Z — June 3, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Then what the hell is he doing?
He needs to start his own blog or something.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmMr. Poopervent is a doll
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pmAre you saying the Shi’ite is going to hit the fan?
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:36 pmThen what the hell is he doing?
He needs to start his own blog or something.
Comment by Mr. President
You first.
Tobey is contributing information. There aren’t enough threads on weekends to stay “on topic.”
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:38 pmIf genP objectivity is in question, then so must be the objectivity of Murtha, correct?
Of COURSE Murtha is NOT objective.
Why should HE BE?
He has been associated with the military and its funding for the last 30 years.
Simple FACTS:
1. Bush LIED us into a war with Iraq, using 9/11 as an excuse.
2. Osama is STILL free almost 6 YEARS later.
3. We are in Iraq for 50 years. Bush said so.
4. Bush has “fixed it” so that his successor(s) CANNOT escape “destiny”
5. Valerie Wilson, a COVERT CIA SPY was exposed by the Bushies.
6. Gitmo, Abu Ghraib.
7. Loss of HABEAS CORPUS.
8. Loss of rights against ILLEGAL SPYING.
9. Violation of Hatch act.
10. Politicization of the justice system.
11. With the help of religious ZEALOTS from bullzhit “universities”
12. Jail without trial.
13. Bush appointing himself ALL POWERS in case of “emergency”.
14. Stolen elections.
15. Seeling of influence to Bush by Delay, Abramoff, etc.
16. Character assassination of political opponents.
16. SECRET government WITHOUT oversight.
17. Bush and Cheney REFUSE to TESTIFY UNDER OATH to 9/11 Commish
The list goes ON and ON and ON.
Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Powell, Condi, Petra