Major Medical Associations Denounce Holsinger’s Views On Homosexuality
Major Medical Associations Denounce Holsinger’s Views On Homosexuality
The Surgeon General of the United States is supposed to be “America’s chief health educator.” But President Bush’s nominee, James W. Holsinger, has repeatedly espoused medically-inaccurate homophobic positions that undermine his credibility to be the next Surgeon General.
The Bush administration has tried to brush aside Holsinger’s 1991 paper in which he concluded that homosexual relations were “intuitively” unnatural, blaming mainstream scientific opinion: “That was not his belief. It was not his opinion. It was a compilation of studies that were available at that time.”
But even a decade later, Holsinger remained out of the mainstream. In 2000, he helped found the Hope Springs Community Church, which takes the scientifically-rejected position that sexual orientation is a “lifestyle” choice. According to the church’s pastor, Rev. David Calhoun, the church helps people “walk out” of homosexuality through conversion therapy. By 2000, major medical associations had already denounced such “treatment”:
American Psychiatric Association: [T]he American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as “reparative” or “conversion” therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation. [1998]
American Psychological Association: In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works and that it can do more harm than good. [1997]
American Medical Association: [A]version therapy (a behavioral or medical intervention which pairs unwanted behavior, in this case, homosexual behavior, with unpleasant sensations or aversive consequences) is no longer recommended for gay men and lesbians. [1994]
Rev. Troy Plummer, Executive Director of Reconciling Ministries Network of United Methodists, called the reparative therapy promoted by Holsinger “nothing short of torture of gay and lesbian people.”
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Wait, wait, wait,
Didn’t TP already say nothing substantial about this guy, like, 2 or 3 times already???
June 7th, 2007 at 8:49 pmwhat do you think, timmy?
June 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pmwhat does it matter what anyone say. if the chimp wants it the dems will give it to him. How about abstinence funding- they even got him more than he asked for.
June 7th, 2007 at 8:52 pm“The fierce, bullying, often witless tone of intolerance that has overtaken the left-wing sector of the blogosphere.” -Joe Klein
Joe, your position is not only understandable, but articulate, mature and well-taken. We adore your consistently cogent analysis, and never miss a single day. Keep up the great work. It’s just that irrational, stupid, and sensless as it is, felony vote theft of two U.S. elections, wholesale shredding of our Constitution, tossing the Great Writ of Habeas from the Magna Carta into the disposall, standing down our military to pull 3 WTC buildings in an asbestos and felony corporate fraud abatment procedure killing 3000 Americans and other nationals, that is then used as a pretext to launch a heinously incompetent and illegal war that kills and maims 500,000 more, and as a pretext to legitimate an already emplaced 24 hour surveillance control police state eugenics media technotronic dictatorship on American soil, then presenting us with a 56 trillion dollar debt to China to pay for it, nutty as it is, has a way of dampening the mood of a few eccentric, entirely marginal street people who believe in their foolish deluded naievite that they are Americans. Hope this at least helps you to understand, although of course you’re absolutely right, it’s kooky.
June 7th, 2007 at 8:57 pmi wish the apa and the ama would take similar public positions on aversion therapy practiced on sexual offenders in prison… i once sat and listened to a prison “therapist” describing attaching electrodes to a prisoner’s genitals, showing erotic porn of the sort that landed the individual in prison in the first place, and, if there was any arousal, administering electric shocks… that was in the new mexico state prison near santa fe in 1994… insofar as i know, it’s still going on…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
June 7th, 2007 at 8:59 pmIt did make CNN today and stuff. Just sayin’
June 7th, 2007 at 9:02 pmhomosexual relations are intuitively unnatural - i see - so therefore intuitive unnaturalism is a production fault of intelligent design?
June 7th, 2007 at 9:02 pmWhen it comes to “Boys Don’t Cry” Holsinger is a real cry baby! We don’t need that kind of “Wah” in our political discourse nor a dead weight for our gay citizens in America.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:03 pmWait, wait, wait,
Didn’t TP already say nothing substantial about this guy, like, 2 or 3 times already???
Comment by Mr. President — June 7, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Yeah, to a st*pid f*t*ss like you, I can understand how it might not matter that someone representing the *medical-profession*, might be *denounced* as unfit by that profession?
What’s *insubstantial* is *you* and your *ignorant-opinion*, st*pid b!tch!
June 7th, 2007 at 9:03 pm#1
Dear Mr. President,
Kindly give Mr. Holsinger a recess appointment this August. Thank you.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:05 pmWhat do those eggheads like the entire mental health field or the major groups of medical professionals know about stuff like what goes on in people’s heads or in their body’s an’ stuff..?!?
Jeebus (or was it unka Karl) told me it was icky, and that’s good enough for me. Besides I’m kinda like that great young kid Leo-nar-do Di-cap-rica in that sinking boat movie Babs had me watch awhile back… “I’m King of the World”….!!!
June 7th, 2007 at 9:07 pmi once sat and listened to a prison “therapist†describing attaching electrodes to a prisoner’s genitals, showing erotic porn of the sort that landed the individual in prison in the first place, and, if there was any arousal, administering electric shocks… that was in the new mexico state prison near santa fe in 1994… insofar as i know, it’s still going on…
And, yes, I DO take it personally
Comment by profmarcus
Whoa, dude, that’s right out of “Clockwork Orange”… for real???
June 7th, 2007 at 9:09 pm“give Mr. Holsinger a recess appointment ”
exactly what the good Dr. has been taliking about……
June 7th, 2007 at 9:10 pmYeah, and like the National Crack Addicts Association said that like… this guy totally kills their buzz… and like he trys to get them to clean up… so therefore he shouldn’t get the job…
Right Libs????
June 7th, 2007 at 9:11 pmDear Mr. President,
Kindly give Mr. Holsinger a recess appointment this August. Thank you.
Comment by m12 — June 7, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
Another anti-science opinion from m12, the purveyor of bigotry, homophobia and “self-loathing”, we’ve all come to expect from the Log Cabin GOP…
June 7th, 2007 at 9:14 pmYeah, and like the National Crack Addicts Association said that like… this guy totally kills their buzz… and like he trys to get them to clean up… so therefore he shouldn’t get the job… Right Libs???? Comment by Mr. President — June 7, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
Another futile attempt at humor, from the every puerile Mizz Prezident. Forget that his opinion is anti-scientific, and reflective of some religious, social and ignorance based dogma unfitting a “doctor”, but instead simply say something st*pid… Just the kind of thing we expect from you - closet boy. Tell me, how do you ever expect to get a boyfriend, when you’re a cartmann fat*ss anyway - junior? Gonna get yourself a chubby chaser?
June 7th, 2007 at 9:17 pmComment by Mr. President
Been hitting on the crack pipe yourself?
June 7th, 2007 at 9:17 pmWondering because you are posting nonsense…….
taliking
June 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pmdef.- the fine art of talking and licking at the same time
ex.- 1) as practiced by 4th string legal aides to the Bush administration
2) as demonstrated by internet bloggers commonly referred to as “trolls”
Homosexuality had not been considered a mental disorder per the APA and DSM editions, since the second edition.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pmThe last time the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders classified homosexuality as a mental disorder, was 1968.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:21 pmThe Amerian Medical Association currently does not believe homosexuality is a ‘medical disorder’.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:23 pmThe gays are all fags
June 7th, 2007 at 9:24 pmSo the only other explanation for the hate of homosexuality is, people feel “God” is against it, and we will all be punished for allowing it.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:24 pmHomosexuality had not been considered a mental disorder per the APA and DSM editions, since the second edition. Comment by ForTruth — June 7, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Nope, but symptoms of homophobia like Mizz presidente’s and C*ntroller are both listed as mental illness issues that should and can be treated.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:25 pmIf I was a gay Republican I would be self-loathing. Good thing I’m not gay or Republican.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:31 pmI bet the good Dr. is a fag.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:31 pmRev. Troy Plummer, Executive Director of Reconciling Ministries Network of United Methodists, called the reparative therapy promoted by Holsinger “nothing short of torture of gay and lesbian people.â€
“nothing short of torture of gay and lesbian people.â€
Well, that explains why Busch chose him.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:32 pmHe’ll get to meet Jeff Gannon, if he gets in the Administration.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:33 pmI bet the good Dr. is a fag.
Comment by ForTruth — June 7, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
The *safe* money is on pedophile. He needs someone else to revile, so he doesn’t have to revile himself. Typical “persecuted-christian” attitude.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:35 pmHolsinger is a certified fruitcake, but some of the Democrats will vote for him anyways. Sen. Traitor Joe LIEberman will claim the guy is highly qualified, just like he said for Michael Brown to head FEMA.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:45 pmHolsinger is a certified nut case and probably needs to receive psychiatric help instead of being named chief medical officer in this country; however, if you view the obscenely unqualified individuals whom Bush has appointed to various offices, Holsinger makes perfect sense. … put the “least qualifie” psycho in the highest position possible. That’s Bush’s mantra. After all….look who’s making the appointments. Maybe they can get a good rate with a shrink: two for the price of one??
June 7th, 2007 at 10:01 pmHey Jay….I don’t know if I am channeling you or you are channeling me?? Our posts crossed in cyberspace and our choice of words is downright spooky!
June 7th, 2007 at 10:02 pmI thought the certified nut cake and fruit comments were damn good.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:15 pmI’m gonna check in on the NBA finals game. What the hell.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:16 pmAnaheim Ducks took the Stanley Cup.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:18 pmWho da ever thunk it.
veritas > maybe God has finally decided to get involved to get rid of the Bush Regime, so those who oppose Bush get the same thoughts now.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:21 pmI can’t believe Tony Parker hasn’t split Eva Longoria in half by now.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:27 pmI find it odd that the trolls do not know that Adams first mate was a man, which he disliked. Not because of nature, it seems, but of choice.
Anyway, Mr President is just a closet pedophile and although he and m12 diasagree openly, behind greend doors they quietly agree.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:32 pmWhere’s Darryl?
June 7th, 2007 at 10:34 pmAnyway the guys name is hole singer. Of course, from childhood trauma, he is going to say that Hole swinging is wrong.
Hey Jay….I don’t know if I am channeling you or you are channeling me?? Our posts crossed in cyberspace and our choice of words is downright spooky!
Comment by veritas
There is nothing spooky about that. Light, as we are told is the fastes means of travel. This is not so. We know today that if we take two photons, from the same atom, they can commuicate (flip poles) instantly over distance.
It aint Karma after all.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:38 pmHe looks a lot like like Bill Murray in The Royal Tenenbaums
I liked that movie ok! :mad:
June 7th, 2007 at 10:44 pmMr President. Might I kindly ask you to shut the Feck up?
You are not helping the Republican party with your idiotic posts that other true conservatives read. You are HARMING not helping your own ideology.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:50 pmDem ho-muh-seck-shuls make me feel all funny in my pants.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:50 pmWho needs them anyway. Jesus is the true healer
June 7th, 2007 at 10:56 pmWake up, f@ckers! :) It’s politics all the time as usual for this group of inbred thugs.
They’re just throwing another bone to the Fundieloons, who gobble that sh!t up, get kicked in the ass, and come back for more. Rove reads the polls. He’s shoring up the basest of Chimpy’s base. At this point, that’s all they’ve got.
It’s symbolic and the fundie guppies lap it up every time, even though they bitch and moan in between. Chimpy says he loves Jaybus and the fundies are hooked, line and sinker.
Once these distressed, lazy, or impaired folks lapse into follow-me (think for me) mode, it’s game over. Just like Limbaugh and his ditto heads. It’s sick sh!t, but simple.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:57 pmI heart Jeff Gannon…he’s a REAL MAN…just ask Shrubbie!
Plus…he’s the only one that Shrubbie allows on top.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:57 pmThen again TP is also not helping by continuing to support the backstabbing democrats.
Hillary, I truly hope you don’t win. Obama, you have not enough experience. There are NO good candidates as America has allowed it’s political governance to become a cesspool of crime.
George Bush, no matter the hype, is the first victim of the neo-cons world empire, might is right insanity. Sadly, none of the possible candidates seem to recognize this fact that they too would be nothing but chock fodder for the empirical bus wheel.
June 7th, 2007 at 10:59 pmWho needs them anyway. Jesus is the true healer
Comment by Daryll
So why didn’t I heal Tammy Faye Baker or Jerry Falwell?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:00 pmWhy does Pat Robertson have stomach cancer Daryll?
Why have so many catholic priests gone astray and molested boys Darryl?
Why have so many politicians of the right found sexual desire in young children?
Why do you cover for them Daryll?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:03 pmWhy should I heal you Daryll? You make many a untrue and hateful statement as if you know God. DId GOD ever tell you that you are one of his judges, or fates, Daryll?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:04 pmDarryll, is Jesus a blue heeler or a red heeler? I like them, but I hear they’re a lot of work. I’m more of a hound guy. I like dogs that just lie around on the porch waiting for a squirrel to drop into their mouth. Heelers are pretty frisky and are all the time demanding to DO something.
But, y’know, whatever works for you.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:06 pmnow dude, here’s a sector that is TOTALLY corrupted .. medical..
i friggin juice parsley, kale, cabbage and carrots for my healthcare
that’s REAL healthcare
are you kidding me, healthcare has been corrupted for well over 100 years by rockefeller funding the medical schools and getting totally corrupt laws passed.
add in the corruption regarding the food industry and monsanto
literally it’s a huge economy to make you sick and with the unbelieveable
corruption with the pharma industry…..
JIMBO DUDE STANDS STRONG :)
we get the friggin grease pits dude, a bunch of pr the best, the finest
BULL….. we get the friggin DUMP…. shafted dude hoodlums + swindlers
dude….. right… real healthcare is eating whole, REAL food that maintains
normal health dude… NOT friggin popping outrageously expensive bandaids dude
jimbo dude always speaks ROCK SOLID integrity/truth dude :)
June 7th, 2007 at 11:06 pmoh, i forgot to mention the unbelievable corruption of the FDA and for
that matter EPA…. that’s about as corrupt as it get dude….
the FDA is so friggin bought out and corrupt, literally the healthcare
June 7th, 2007 at 11:16 pmis so friggin corrupt, most people don’t know the difference whether
it’s comin or going…. get it dude…. high class salesman, like your
life savings dude… when healthcare dude is your birthright dude
Such a stupid world full of so many stupid material minded nitwits.
Do you fools really think this is mans first go around on this planet?
That any of what you say is new?
Well, get over yourselves you ignorant greedy self destructive warring class of idiots. It is the very nature of you idiots to destroy yourselves. I wil have no part of it, but I see that you are well on your stupid way, with your old technology, to self-destruct again.
MORONS.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:17 pmStella!
Steeeellllllllllaaaaaaaaaaa!
Ack.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:34 pmWell, you know the reason penguins are gay is because of the books they read.
Burn all books!
Oh wait, penguins can’t read.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:36 pmMr President. Might I kindly ask you to shut the Feck up?
You are not helping the Republican party with your idiotic posts that other true conservatives read. You are HARMING not helping your own ideology.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
You don’t know me, bitch!
June 7th, 2007 at 11:36 pmComment by smafdy
That would be ACK with a Syn on the end. -AckSyn JAckSyn
June 7th, 2007 at 11:38 pmYou don’t know me, bitch!
Comment by Mr. President
I know everything about you. I know what you like and dislike. I know who you call and don’t call. I know where you go and don’t go.
What? you have a problem with if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to hide?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:42 pmThe gays are all fags
Comment by Mr. President
But being gay is not a disorder. Having an IQ of 60, like yours, is a major disability.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:42 pmYou don’t know me, bitch!
Comment by Mr. President
Are you sure? Just because you don’t see me doesn’t mean I am not there. Listen to your environment closely and you will hear me always.
In God we trust -all others are monitored.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:44 pmWhat? you have a problem with if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to hide?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 11:42 pm
Shit, I ain’t got a problem.
So I guess you know I’m the shit then, right?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:45 pmThe gays are all fags
Comment by Mr. President
If you are jacking off, your a fag, fag. Now please dispose of your rubbers properly and stop leaving them in public places, sicko.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:47 pmAre you sure? Just because you don’t see me doesn’t mean I am not there. Listen to your environment closely and you will hear me always.
In God we trust -all others are monitored.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
So… you’re nutz…
June 7th, 2007 at 11:48 pmNo new TP threads tonight?
June 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pmComment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
If your pleasing yourself, your a fag, fag, fag… fag.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pmSo I guess you know I’m the shit then, right?
Comment by Mr. President
You think you are the shit, but really you have been an object of our laughter.
Do you really think we told you the whole truth? Of course not, it is however funny to watch such fools as yourself doing what they were told to ‘believe’
June 7th, 2007 at 11:50 pmSo I guess you know I’m the shit then, right?
Comment by Mr. President
Your just a pathetic little dweeb who was given just enough information to make a jerk of themself.
You were run down many non-existent rabbit holes and you took the bait.
Rabbits are funny!
June 7th, 2007 at 11:52 pmIf your pleasing yourself, your a fag, fag, fag… fag.
Comment by Mr. President
Oh but we have pictures of you pleasing yourself….
June 7th, 2007 at 11:53 pmNo need to use the word “fag” Mr. President.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:53 pm…Obama, you have not enough experience….Comment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
June 7th, 2007 at 11:54 pmNot that I’m pulling for Obama, but he is older than Kennedy or Clinton when they ran.
Oh but we have pictures of you pleasing yourself….
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 7, 2007 @ 11:53 pm
Cool, so do I.
They get me off.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:55 pmThey get me off. Comment by Mr. President
Yes, unfortunately, we know.
June 7th, 2007 at 11:59 pmThey get me off. Comment by Mr. President
Say hello to laura for me will you Mr cheerleader?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:01 amThose that ‘hate’ gays are acting on their fear of actually being gay. You usually do not find find this emotional reaction from those secure with their own sexuality.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:02 amHolsinge is a joke. My God, how much worse is it going to get?
Comment by had enough — June 8, 2007 @ 12:02 am
=
a gay
June 8th, 2007 at 12:03 amNo need to use the word “fag†Mr. President.
Comment by Jake
He was talking about you Jake.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:05 amComment by Mr. President
I have a nice cold hormone daiqueeri for you Mr Pres.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:06 amMr. President:
We can oppose the homosexual agenda without resorting to personal attacks.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:11 amComment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:06 am
What crevice did you crawl out from under???
June 8th, 2007 at 12:11 amMr. President:
We can oppose the homosexual agenda without resorting to personal attacks.
Comment by Jake — June 8, 2007 @ 12:11 am
Shut the fuk up little bitch, I don’t oppose the fags, and I don’t think they have “an agenda.”
I know, I know… you’re gonna cry.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:13 amSo I guess you know I’m the shit then, right?
You know what Mr President, this, above, is the problem with humanity.
You guess you know.
Humans don’t know a shit from the truth, they don’t know from where they came, they don’t know their past. Missing links. Phhbbbbtt.
The fact is mankind, thru violence, destroyed his past. With no true past mankind fights for what he believes.
It is not history then that man repeats, it is his lack of his truw past that he repeats and that what binds him to repeat it.
This issue of being gay is a non issue when looking at the long picture.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:14 amShut the fuk up little bitch, I don’t oppose the fags, and I don’t think they have “an agenda.â€
I know, I know… you’re gonna cry.
Comment by Mr. President
You know, I gotta agree with Pres on this one. JAKE STFU.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:17 amSo I guess you know I’m the shit then, right?
You know what Mr President, this, above, is the problem with humanity.
You guess you know.
Humans don’t know a shit from the truth, they don’t know from where they came, they don’t know their past. Missing links. Phhbbbbtt.
The fact is mankind, thru violence, destroyed his past. With no true past mankind fights for what he believes.
It is not history then that man repeats, it is his lack of his truw past that he repeats and that what binds him to repeat it.
This issue of being gay is a non issue when looking at the long picture.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:14 am
First of all,
I didn’t say, “I guess *I* know,” I said “I guess *you* know”
Secondly,
I agree with you so far,
Let me ask you a question:
You express doubts about a “missing link,” what do you think of Creationism?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:18 amWas that the fake “Mr. President”?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:21 amThat would be ACK with a Syn on the end. -AckSyn JAckSyn
Comment by Stella Octangula
Heh.
Playing with the new trollie?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:22 amYou express doubts about a “missing link,†what do you think of Creationism?
Comment by Mr. President
Why do you think you are not still in creation?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:24 amWas that the fake “Mr. President�
Comment by Jake — June 8, 2007 @ 12:21 am
What the fuk do you think
June 8th, 2007 at 12:26 amPlaying with the new trollie?
Comment by Zooey
What better way to occupy an idiots mind? =)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:26 amWhy do you think you are not still in creation?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:24 am
I did say that.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:27 amI am referring to the Judeo-Christian story of creation.
What do you think of it?
Erratum: post #91) should read “I didn’t say that.”
June 8th, 2007 at 12:28 amWhat better way to occupy an idiots mind? =)
Comment by Stella Octangula
I can think of no better person to occupy that mind. :-)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:29 amComment by Mr. Presidentt
What I think of it that you cannot describe? I know that our universe is still in creation as it still expands and is not complete. That means YOU, child, are not yet fully born.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:30 amWas that the fake “Mr. President�
Comment by Jake
Was that the fake “Mr. President�Was that the fake “Mr. President�Was that the fake “Mr. President�
You are such a whiny little shit.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:30 amWhat better way to occupy an idiots mind? =)
Comment by Stella Octangula
I can think of no better person to occupy that mind. :-)
Comment by Zooey
Touche, I was hoping you might occupy it =)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:32 amI am referring to the Judeo-Christian story of creation.
What do you think of it?
Comment by Mr. President
Why don’t you go to bible study or something and STFU here.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:34 amI can think of no better person to occupy that mind. :-)
Comment by Zooey
But then again Zooey, your mind occupies the same space and frequency as mine. =)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:34 amI am referring to the Judeo-Christian story of creation.
What do you think of it?
Comment by Mr. President
I think nothing of it. For if you had the ability to think thru your fog you would see that Judaism and Christianity came long after mans first thought.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:38 amWhat I think of it that you cannot describe? I know that our universe is still in creation as it still expands and is not complete. That means YOU, child, are not yet fully born.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:30 am
So… what… you’re some kinda nut case or something?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:39 amI am referring to the Judeo-Christian story of creation.
What do you think of it?
Comment by Mr. President
Why don’t you go to bible study or something and STFU here.
Comment by shane — June 8, 2007 @ 12:34 am
Do you think I believe in that garbage?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:40 amI think nothing of it. For if you had the ability to think thru your fog you would see that Judaism and Christianity came long after mans first thought.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:38 am
Alright, then I fully agree with your post #85.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:41 amTouche, I was hoping you might occupy it =)
Comment by Stella Octangula
I’m on a new path, my friend.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:42 amSo… what… you’re some kinda nut case or something?
Comment by Mr. President
One of Gods names is Nut. Ennywhoo, you can’t comprehend the universe and life or something?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:42 amI can think of no better person to occupy that mind. :-)
Comment by Zooey — June 8, 2007 @ 12:29 am
Whadafuk is dis s’posta mean, zooey?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:42 amOne of Gods names is Nut. Ennywhoo, you can’t comprehend the universe and life or something?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:42 am
What? Is this a question?
Ummmmm…. sure
June 8th, 2007 at 12:43 amWhadafuk is dis s’posta mean, zooey?
Comment by Mr. President
It’s a very clear statement, Mr P, in my humble opinion. However it was not made to you, so there is not need for you to understand. Peace.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:45 amTouche, I was hoping you might occupy it =)
Comment by Stella Octangula
I’m on a new path, my friend.
Comment by Zooey
I hope you find your path, truly. =) The universe is a strange and exotic place, it is timeless as our dreams, and when we realize that nothing is indeed something, we cross a new paradigm.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:47 amComment by Zooey — June 8, 2007 @ 12:45 am
I’m heart-broken.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:48 amI’m heart-broken.
Comment by Mr. President
I’m sorry, baby. You’ll be fine. :)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:51 amI hope you find your path, truly. =) The universe is a strange and exotic place, it is timeless as our dreams, and when we realize that nothing is indeed something, we cross a new paradigm.
Comment by Stella Octangula
The path is found. You’ll spot it soon enough. :-)
June 8th, 2007 at 12:52 amDo you think I believe in that garbage?
Comment by Mr. President — June 8, 2007 @ 12:40 am
You posed the question. And yes, all you neocons believe in “that garbage”.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:53 amIt’s a very clear statement, Mr P, in my humble opinion. However it was not made to you, so there is not need for you to understand. Peace.
Comment by Zooey
*smack*
June 8th, 2007 at 12:54 amYou posed the question. And yes, all you neocons believe in “that garbageâ€.
Comment by shane — June 8, 2007 @ 12:53 am
Okay, whatever you say.
I’m a “neocon”
and I’m a christian!!!!
You’re kidding right?
June 8th, 2007 at 12:55 amI’m a “neoconâ€
and I’m a christian!!!!
You’re kidding right?
Comment by Mr. President
If it walks like a duck … yadayada …
June 8th, 2007 at 12:57 amWell, my friends, I am outta here. The sun comes up early this time of year!
Goodnight!
June 8th, 2007 at 12:58 amWhadafuk is dis s’posta mean, zooey?
Comment by Mr. President
What does it all mean Mr President?
If we do not know our past our future becomes repetition. War, over belief, is what caused our physical memory loss as those in power wished to erase our history for their own benefit.
Sadly, mankind destroyed his past and locked himself into an inescapable loop. If we do not recognize our faults, as a whole, then we cannot expect, no natter technology, to escape war and self destruction.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:59 amComment by shane — June 8, 2007 @ 12:57 am
So you seriously think that someone like me would be accepted in A CHURCH?
Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please, now I know you’re kidding!!!!!!!!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 1:00 amYou’re kidding right?
Comment by Mr. President
The question is why did so many christians take the advice of neocons?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:01 amDo you seriously think that someone like me would be accepted in A CHURCH? Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please, now I know you’re kidding!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Mr. President
They accepted Haggard.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:03 amIf we do not know our past our future becomes repetition. War, over belief, is what caused our physical memory loss as those in power wished to erase our history for their own benefit.
Sadly, mankind destroyed his past and locked himself into an inescapable loop. If we do not recognize our faults, as a whole, then we cannot expect, no natter technology, to escape war and self destruction.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Yeah, I know.
The cycle will continue until we have broken free from our worldly desires, only then, when we have negated our egotistical will-to-live, can we remove the veil of the world of appearance so we can be one again with the true being of the universe.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:04 amThe question is why did so many christians take the advice of neocons?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:01 am
Don’t ask me, I’m neither.
I don’t even vote, or go to church.
I’m Metaprogressive.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:05 amThey accepted Haggard.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:03 am
And they accepted Bush.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:07 amThe cycle will continue until we have broken free from our worldly desires, only then, when we have negated our egotistical will-to-live, can we remove the veil of the world of appearance so we can be one again with the true being of the universe.
Comment by Mr. President
What is the universe?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:10 amI don’t even vote, or go to church. I’m Metaprogressive. Comment by Mr. President
The locations you visit, or not, changes nothing in what you believe.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:14 amWhat is the universe?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:10 am
The “universe” is a name that humans gave to the energy and void that surrounds them.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:16 amThe locations you visit, or not, changes nothing in what you believe.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:14 am
obviously.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:16 amThe “universe†is a name that humans gave to the energy and void that surrounds them. Comment by Mr. President
A name for what they cannot explain.
If man knows not from which he came how so can he judge another?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:23 amIf man knows not from which he came how so can he judge another?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:23 am
You need not knowledge to obtain arrogance.
Only a fool would think his judgment made a difference.
Only a fool would think he was somehow different from the woman he judged.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:26 amIf a man cannot understand the universe that he thrives within, how so can he understand nature of man?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:28 amDoes not then man mimick nature by creating chaos?
Only a fool would think he was somehow different from the woman he judged. Comment by Mr. President
Yet all men were bore by women.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:31 amIf a man cannot understand the universe that he thrives within, how so can he understand nature of man?
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:28 am
She can not, she can only observe the worldly appearances that her mortal senses and brain can comprehend.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:31 amShe can not, she can only observe the worldly appearances that her mortal senses and brain can comprehend.
Comment by Mr. President
And that you call your mother =)
June 8th, 2007 at 1:35 amYet all men were bore by women.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:31 am
All women and men were begot by both men and women,
there is no difference.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:35 amAnd that you call your mother =)
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:35 am
Yes.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:36 amAll women and men were begot by both men and women,
there is no difference. Comment by Mr. President
So I have you to agree that all men and women are equal.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:37 amThis guy is questionable at best. Anyone who believes in the Invisible Magical Man in the Sky has got to have his sanity questioned.
IGNORE THE TROLLS - Debate is good - Trolling is bad
June 8th, 2007 at 1:39 amAll women and men were begot by both men and women,
there is no difference. Comment by Mr. President
So I have you to agree that all men and women are equal.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:37 am
Of course.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:40 amMr. President, after the doctor stuck his hand in my ex-wife to get the placenta out I realized I had no F^cking reason to say we when I talked about the birth. You are childless, aren’t you, sh!t-disturber?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:41 amHonestly, I would be thrilled to see the doc stick his hand in you, Mr. Pres.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:42 amThis guy is questionable at best. Anyone who believes in the Invisible Magical Man in the Sky has got to have his sanity questioned.
Then you do not understand scalar waves. The magical man in the sky is no more than electrical energy trapped in magnetic waves. Such as our Van Allen belts.
I agree that your brain does produce electrical cuurent, and therefore transmits RF freqs.
These things are elementary and I don’t know why people think the spaghettti god does not exist, for the spaghetti God is YOUR mind.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:43 amOf course.
Comment by Mr. President
Thank you Mr President.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:44 amOh, please, lay off the president.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:45 amMr. President, after the doctor stuck his hand in my ex-wife to get the placenta out I realized I had no F^cking reason to say we when I talked about the birth. You are childless, aren’t you, sh!t-disturber?
Comment by JPark — June 8, 2007 @ 1:41 am
You should have realized that when you found out the kid wasn’t yours!!!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 1:46 amHonestly, I would be thrilled to see the doc stick his hand in you, Mr. Pres.
Comment by JPark — June 8, 2007 @ 1:42 am
Ummm…. Okay….
Sooooo…. you’re gay?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:47 amMr. Pres, he looked just like me and still does. I am sorry if you have ID problems but I am quite all right. By the way, my son is 9. If he somehow wasn’t mine he would still be mine. I know it is different with righties but I love him no matter what.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:50 amOh, please, lay off the president.
Comment by Stella Octangula — June 8, 2007 @ 1:45 am
Thanks, Stella.
These people don’t know about eternal nothingness, and egotistic striving for individuality, that we all share, and are therefore, identical.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:50 amThese people don’t know about eternal nothingness, and egotistic striving for individuality, that we all share, and are therefore, identical.
Comment by Mr. President
True, we agree much more than we disagree. It’s the fine points to perfection that must, and will be, fought by genetics, and not words.
Oddly our imperfections are our pefection.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:59 am“Ummm…. Okay….
Sooooo…. you’re gay?”
Not sure where you got that, Mr. President. I was hoping the doc could cause you some pain.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:01 amStella, lay off the guy? Are you joking?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:07 amComment by JPark — June 8, 2007 @ 2:07 am
Please, show some respect. This is beautiful… Stella and the Preznit are falling in love…
June 8th, 2007 at 2:27 amAww, Tony, I am a sucker for that!!! I just think Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan!!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:33 amYeah JPark… I liked the part where… Hey, it looks like Stella and the Preznit already went off and got a room… I wish ‘em well. It was beautiful to watch as they went from hostility to realizing their oneness, huh? Anyhowz, I gotta go. Nice talkin’ witcha.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:02 amTony, if Stella got rid of him for a few minutes I am eternally grateful.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:06 amI don’t think Stella has the same politics as Mr. President. She may have been fooled by his fakery.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:10 amStella n Mr. President - a match made in HELL!
Now back to the topic. The current, demented, corrupt, criminal president wants to appoint a phony, a homophobe, and a third-rate doctor to be the surgeon general. It’s déjà vu all over again: Heckuva job, Holsinger-ie!
June 8th, 2007 at 3:33 amhterra, this is no difference from any other Bush appointee. He has placed corporate lawyers in the Civil Rights division…he has placed oil company lawyers in the EPA…you would almost think the right likes lawyers.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:35 amWill the wingers ever learn to deal with their sexual hang-ups?
June 8th, 2007 at 6:35 amYeah, this guy:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050530/mcgarvey
June 8th, 2007 at 8:01 amSure, libs, mock my statement. We don’t need unrighteous physicians within our society. What happened to prophets like Benny Hinn?
June 8th, 2007 at 8:34 amI keep hoping the administration will focus on the problems instead of the politics of the people that they want to use to work on the problems, but things like this keep coming up…
June 8th, 2007 at 8:39 amReminds me of the AIDS help that we give, but ONLY if the program teaches abstinence… sure abstinence will help, but sex occurs a lot, shouldn’t people be educated about how condom can reduce their chances of getting AIDS? But it’s a sin to have sex outside of marriage so…
#160 - “What happened to prophets like Benny Hinn?” Comment by Daryll — June 8, 2007 @ 8:34 am
Looks like your “prophet” got caught up in the money.
“Hinn lives in an ocean-front mansion valued at an estimated $8.5 million in an exclusive gated community in Dana Point, California, travels by private aircraft, and stays in hotel rooms costing upwards of $3,000 per night. In December 2006, he sent out a mailing asking for donations towards a new Gulfstream G4SP jet valued at an estimated $36 million.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn
June 8th, 2007 at 8:44 amThe good doctor “Holsinger-ie” (and I use the term “good” VERY loosely) believes that homosexuality is “’intuitively’ unnatural.’†I thought about that for a long time.
What do NeoCons, including the trolls that harass us on the ThinkProgress threads, think is ‘intuitively’ NATURAL? Well, they think war, racism, hatred, genocide, hypocrisy, lying, slavery, love of money (e.g., a mansion valued at an estimated $8.5 million in an exclusive gated community), and empty, vacuous lives, are all “intuitively” natural.
NeoCons, and their current, demented, corrupt, criminal president have been busy pressing toward what comes “‘intuitively’ natural” to them with a vengance!
Love, peace, compassion for your neighbor, honesty, integrity, wanting justice and equality for people of color, wanting decent lives for people who can’t afford to live in mansions valued at an estimated $8.5 million, and just common decency, are all “’intuitively’ unnatural’†to them.
And, of course, in a sense, the NeoCons have a point about the “intuitive” stuff.
Jesus was naturally counter-intuitive, when He said, “Love your enemies; do good to those who hate you” (I surely have trouble doing that “naturally” with the trolls here in the ThinkProgress threads!). Jesus also asks us to seek Peace, to do good to the most hated in society (like gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered, “illegal aliens,” muslims, atheists, etc.), to do to others what you would want done to you, to have faith like a mustard seed, to love God with our whole hearts, and to love our neighbors as ourselves.
Apparently the “good” doctor missed all that stuff in the church he attends.
June 8th, 2007 at 11:18 amF**K all of you who agree with any of this Nazi’s baseless belief that homosexual relations are ‘intuitively unnatural’ and then actual want him to lead the medical community by being Surgeon General! I find ‘breeders’ pushing out babies with no care of consequences ‘intuitively immature’ and they have probable IQs of 50 or below. (Don’t ask me to cite my sources. Just like Holsinger’s they don’t exist.)
Nothing about my life is ‘unnatural’ nor is it a lifestyle choice. It is my life. MOVE ON homophobes. Get a fricking life of your own instead of living life just to create misery for the rest of us.
And, no f**ker better continue to try to compare my life with that of any drug dealer, pedophile, polygamist, or other ‘degenerate’ and get in my face while doing it.
You homophobic breeders ought to be sterilized to protect the world from further ignorance.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:12 pm#164
June 8th, 2007 at 12:57 pmEnjoy your life fudgepacker : >)
#163
There some thoughts in the paragraph that are completely baseless. The implied implications in this paragraph are even more baseless.
(BTW, if Christ had been making such a list, he would probably have put “tax collectorsâ€, who were very corrupt in His day, at the top of the list.)
June 8th, 2007 at 1:40 pm#165 - I’m sure he will, just as do I!
You enjoy your life, tuna slapper! ;)
(No offense to the lady posters at TP, no matter their political affiliation.)
June 8th, 2007 at 1:42 pm#166 - You oh-so conveniently forget John 3:17.
“For God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world, through Him, might be saved.”
But, then again, maybe that’s one of the verses of the Bible that your have decided to completely ignore. Much like the verses that talk about killing your children if they curse you, or burning enything your wife touches during her time of the month.
Pick & choose any other verses lately? Hmmm?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:45 pmFor God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world, through Him, might be saved.â€
Saved from what???
June 8th, 2007 at 1:48 pmFor God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world, through Him, might be saved.â€
saved from what a tuna sandwhich?
June 8th, 2007 at 1:49 pm#168
Believe you are doing the picking and choosing.
This verse is from John 3: 17 which follows 3:16. The link in my previous post will find both verses.
Here it is in context.
Seems to me – in Christianity you’re allowed to make your own interpretation – that in the context, it’s obvious that these verses are talking about two kinds of people – those who believe and those who don’t.
The point I want to make to #163 is that it doesn’t matter if you quote scripture if you don’t believe Christ is the son of God.
The Bible doesn’t endorse sin.
Do you know what a Christian’s responsibility is under the law of Moses?
Hint: It’s the Apostle Paul, who tells us what we know about the grace of God, than makes this answer clear.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:00 pm#166 - Since you’re into quoting verse today, why do you ignore the following?
Gospel of Matthew
23 - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 - And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
There are those uneducated Bible-thumpers that make the false claim that the phrase “eye of a needle” refers to gates and not an actual needle. When you read vers 23, it’s obvious that Jesus is talking about an actual needle.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:08 pmWhat makes you think I ignore it?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:10 pm#171 - There you go again. Quoting one part of a law, and (conveniently) ignoring the rest.
Here you go, sweetie. http://www.answers.com/topic/mosaic-law
Now, go read up on what the true Mosaic law is, and then come back and correct your false assumption that grace is the only responsibility of Christianity.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:14 pm#173 - Pardon me. That must mean you’ve given away your computer and you’re using the internet access from the local Library.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:14 pm#174
I like
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
This is the whole list - 613. Many have extensive explanations.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:20 pmNothing harder to reconcile : practicing homosexuality and the bible saying it is wrong.
Democrat soldier beats O’reilly in the “Spin Zone” on this one.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:23 pm#173 What makes you think I ignore it?
#175
Tough day, or …what?
I don’t see the relation here!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:24 pmPerhaps this question in #171
Would be better replace with this one:
Do you know what a Christian’s responsibility is to the law of Moses?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:31 pm#177 - “Nothing harder to reconcile : practicing homosexuality and the bible saying it is wrong.”
No, the hardest thing to reconcile: Republican Christian. How can you turn the other cheek when you’re shooting the person in face? How can you stop throwing stones when your own house is made of glass? How can you help the poor when you’re blaming them for being poor?
Yup. Republican Christianity - the ultimate oxymoron.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:32 pm#177 - “practicing homosexuality ” Comment by Flaco — June 8, 2007 @ 2:23 pm
I don’t have to practice, I’ve got it down quite well. ;-)
OK, that’s it for me for this week. Too much going on at work, too much going on at university, and too many plans for the weekend.
Have a great weekend all! You too, Flaco, Bitbit, and others! God bless!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:38 pmRepublican Christianity???
Democratic Christianity???
Green Party Christianity???
Which did Jesus belong to???
June 8th, 2007 at 2:51 pmNothing harder to reconcile : practicing homosexuality and the bible saying it is wrong.
Democrat soldier beats O’reilly in the “Spin Zone†on this one.
#181
I don’t have to practice, I’ve got it down quite well. ;-)
Comment by Democrat Soldier
Run a way like Rosie
June 8th, 2007 at 2:55 pmYou have the Spin down quite well :-}
Democrat Soldier most excellent bible scholar (spinnner)
#168
June 8th, 2007 at 2:57 pmSaved from what again bible scholar?
#184
That’s .saved for in verse 14.
If you want to know the “…saved from…”, you can do the inverse yourself.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:45 pmbut men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:17 pmIf you want to know the “…saved from…â€, you can do the inverse yourself.
inverse???
June 8th, 2007 at 4:19 pmIf you believe, then you’ll be saved - have ete