Comments on: Lute: War Debate Does Not Undercut Troop Morale http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:51:44 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Charlie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3874553 Charlie Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:36:16 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3874553 So how long before Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh. Bill O Lie-ly, Ann the Snake Coulter, Michael Reagan, Michael Savage, Michele Malkin and a thousand and one others claim General Luke has deserted his troops?? Good for you General. I am a Vietnam Era Vet and I can tell you it is half assed missions for shit reasons that undermine the troops..esp if send by the likes of Bush and Cheney!! So how long before Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh. Bill O Lie-ly, Ann the Snake Coulter, Michael Reagan, Michael Savage, Michele Malkin and a thousand and one others claim General Luke has deserted his troops??
Good for you General. I am a Vietnam Era Vet and I can tell you it is half assed missions for shit reasons that undermine the troops..esp if send by the likes of Bush and Cheney!!

]]> By: Rich http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3849420 Rich Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:15:20 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3849420 The soldier, once in combat, has no ultra-patriotic motive other than the desire to survive the tour. Combat exists in a chaotic realm of death and mayhem that is absent of grace and mercy. The politic of war is miles away in the hands of those who are safe. Politicians may talk of the need for war; old men may talk of the glory of war, but the soldiers...they just want to go home. The soldier, once in combat, has no ultra-patriotic motive other than the desire to survive the tour. Combat exists in a chaotic realm of death and mayhem that is absent of grace and mercy.

The politic of war is miles away in the hands of those who are safe. Politicians may talk of the need for war; old men may talk of the glory of war, but the soldiers…they just want to go home.

]]> By: Robt http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846995 Robt Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:24:10 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846995 What, Tony Snow and Dana Perrino couldn't handle this spokes person job? What, Tony Snow and Dana Perrino couldn’t handle this spokes person job?

]]> By: marlow http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846563 marlow Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:03:17 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846563 Thank you, general. I can't think of anything more Hitlerian: "The democratic process harms our democracy." Thank you, general. I can’t think of anything more Hitlerian: “The democratic process harms our democracy.”

]]> By: heyzeus http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846492 heyzeus Fri, 08 Jun 2007 00:36:50 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846492 Caption: "Did you say <em>LOOT</em> ?!!! Caption:

“Did you say LOOT ?!!!

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846107 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:29:58 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846107 What, you think the soldiers can’t plainly SEE that they’re not making any progress and that we have no chance to “win”, whatever that means?? C’mon, bud. They’re there every single day… they know. And they want out too. Comment by Chris from Philly Perhaps you are right What, you think the soldiers can’t plainly SEE that they’re not making any progress and that we have no chance to “win”, whatever that means?? C’mon, bud. They’re there every single day… they know. And they want out too.

Comment by Chris from Philly

Perhaps you are right

]]> By: Chris from Philly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846058 Chris from Philly Thu, 07 Jun 2007 21:04:31 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846058 Timmy says, "If soldiers are constantly hearing how they are not making progress and there is no chance to win, how could it not effect their morale?" What, you think the soldiers can't plainly SEE that they're not making any progress and that we have no chance to "win", whatever that means?? C'mon, bud. They're there every single day... they know. And they want out too. Timmy says, “If soldiers are constantly hearing how they are not making progress and there is no chance to win, how could it not effect their morale?”

What, you think the soldiers can’t plainly SEE that they’re not making any progress and that we have no chance to “win”, whatever that means?? C’mon, bud. They’re there every single day… they know. And they want out too.

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3846008 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:43:29 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3846008 Hey Timmy and Barfly; I’ll speak for the soldiers, since I am one. While “over there” you get a limited chance to watch TV, let alone monitor what the hell is going on, so we could really care less who is saying what. All we wanna do is make it through the next watch or patrol without incident, and come home to see our families. We think that there are liberal kooks who would call us baby killers, but we also believe there are right wing rabid animals that would call me a coward when I state I’m not anxious to get back over there. Bottom line is that we do our job, come home, and hope we don’t have to go back. Any positive debate that speeds up the end of this thing the better. I personlly never wish to carry another flag draped coffin to the tarmac, nor attend another memorial ceremony for a fallen brethren. Hope this clears it up…. Comment by Craig Mack Thank you for your comments and your service. I understand that you don't get to see much t.v. to know what is said, but what about your wife and kids at home? Did it wear on them at all hearing the comments? Did they ever convey any frustration due to those comments to you via mail, email or phone? Hey Timmy and Barfly; I’ll speak for the soldiers, since I am one.
While “over there” you get a limited chance to watch TV, let alone monitor what the hell is going on, so we could really care less who is saying what. All we wanna do is make it through the next watch or patrol without incident, and come home to see our families. We think that there are liberal kooks who would call us baby killers, but we also believe there are right wing rabid animals that would call me a coward when I state I’m not anxious to get back over there.
Bottom line is that we do our job, come home, and hope we don’t have to go back. Any positive debate that speeds up the end of this thing the better. I personlly never wish to carry another flag draped coffin to the tarmac, nor attend another memorial ceremony for a fallen brethren.
Hope this clears it up….

Comment by Craig Mack

Thank you for your comments and your service. I understand that you don’t get to see much t.v. to know what is said, but what about your wife and kids at home? Did it wear on them at all hearing the comments? Did they ever convey any frustration due to those comments to you via mail, email or phone?

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845997 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:40:22 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845997 You’re partly right. Even if you don’t want to forbid debate, you’re still attempting to restrict it by preferring that comments about it being a lost cause and the like not be expressed. Even restricted debate harms democracy, by preventing the widest possible range of ideas and opinions from being articulated and examined for their possible value. By the way, try being more respectful and less presumptuous about my reading ability or anything else about me. (I have a lot to do besides reply to you. In the best of all possible worlds, I wouldn’t have to skim.) I treated you as an equal by addressing you in a respectful manner; I expect the same in return. Comment by Prof. Mark Colby First off I never said things being said about the war should be banned. I merely suggested that it does effect the troops. As for being respectful to me, you were certainly condesending. With quotes like these: "(This is an absurdly condescending view, and lacking any supporting evidence, but we’ll ignore this.)" "And remember–I granted all this only for the sake of argument. So, even if you’re right, which is most unlikely" Those are not things to say to somebody you treating in an equal and respectful manner. You’re partly right. Even if you don’t want to forbid debate, you’re still attempting to restrict it by preferring that comments about it being a lost cause and the like not be expressed. Even restricted debate harms democracy, by preventing the widest possible range of ideas and opinions from being articulated and examined for their possible value.

By the way, try being more respectful and less presumptuous about my reading ability or anything else about me. (I have a lot to do besides reply to you. In the best of all possible worlds, I wouldn’t have to skim.) I treated you as an equal by addressing you in a respectful manner; I expect the same in return.

Comment by Prof. Mark Colby

First off I never said things being said about the war should be banned. I merely suggested that it does effect the troops. As for being respectful to me, you were certainly condesending. With quotes like these:

“(This is an absurdly condescending view, and lacking any supporting evidence, but we’ll ignore this.)”

“And remember–I granted all this only for the sake of argument. So, even if you’re right, which is most unlikely”

Those are not things to say to somebody you treating in an equal and respectful manner.

]]> By: Prof. Mark Colby http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845971 Prof. Mark Colby Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:31:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845971 timmy, You're partly right. Even if you don't want to forbid debate, you're still attempting to restrict it by preferring that comments about it being a lost cause and the like not be expressed. Even restricted debate harms democracy, by preventing the widest possible range of ideas and opinions from being articulated and examined for their possible value. By the way, try being more respectful and less presumptuous about my reading ability or anything else about me. (I have a lot to do besides reply to you. In the best of all possible worlds, I wouldn't have to skim.) I treated you as an equal by addressing you in a respectful manner; I expect the same in return. timmy,

You’re partly right. Even if you don’t want to forbid debate, you’re still attempting to restrict it by preferring that comments about it being a lost cause and the like not be expressed. Even restricted debate harms democracy, by preventing the widest possible range of ideas and opinions from being articulated and examined for their possible value.

By the way, try being more respectful and less presumptuous about my reading ability or anything else about me. (I have a lot to do besides reply to you. In the best of all possible worlds, I wouldn’t have to skim.) I treated you as an equal by addressing you in a respectful manner; I expect the same in return.

]]> By: b http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845938 b Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:21:52 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845938 Craig Mack, A sincere thanks for your service. You are a much better and braver man than I. You and your fellow soldiers deserve an honest debate about our Iraq policy. I'm sorry that most of the time the debate consists of insinuating (or flat-out stating if you're the VP) that debate itself is a damaging thing. Craig Mack,

A sincere thanks for your service. You are a much better and braver man than I. You and your fellow soldiers deserve an honest debate about our Iraq policy. I’m sorry that most of the time the debate consists of insinuating (or flat-out stating if you’re the VP) that debate itself is a damaging thing.

]]> By: b http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845919 b Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:14:43 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845919 timmy, I'm glad you agree: nothing is more important than free speech and open debate, even if it damages morale. I don't know about you, but if I were serving in Iraq and the majority of my fellow citizens didn't think we should be there, I would probably want to know that instead of being led to believe something that wasn't true. timmy, I’m glad you agree: nothing is more important than free speech and open debate, even if it damages morale. I don’t know about you, but if I were serving in Iraq and the majority of my fellow citizens didn’t think we should be there, I would probably want to know that instead of being led to believe something that wasn’t true.

]]> By: Craig Mack http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845918 Craig Mack Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:14:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845918 Hey Timmy and Barfly; I'll speak for the soldiers, since I am one. While "over there" you get a limited chance to watch TV, let alone monitor what the hell is going on, so we could really care less who is saying what. All we wanna do is make it through the next watch or patrol without incident, and come home to see our families. We think that there are liberal kooks who would call us baby killers, but we also believe there are right wing rabid animals that would call me a coward when I state I'm not anxious to get back over there. Bottom line is that we do our job, come home, and hope we don't have to go back. Any positive debate that speeds up the end of this thing the better. I personlly never wish to carry another flag draped coffin to the tarmac, nor attend another memorial ceremony for a fallen brethren. Hope this clears it up.... Hey Timmy and Barfly; I’ll speak for the soldiers, since I am one.
While “over there” you get a limited chance to watch TV, let alone monitor what the hell is going on, so we could really care less who is saying what. All we wanna do is make it through the next watch or patrol without incident, and come home to see our families. We think that there are liberal kooks who would call us baby killers, but we also believe there are right wing rabid animals that would call me a coward when I state I’m not anxious to get back over there.
Bottom line is that we do our job, come home, and hope we don’t have to go back. Any positive debate that speeds up the end of this thing the better. I personlly never wish to carry another flag draped coffin to the tarmac, nor attend another memorial ceremony for a fallen brethren.
Hope this clears it up….

]]> By: David B http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845905 David B Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:09:01 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845905 Freedom of speech is not a republican virtue. Your next move will be to visit the woodshed for a session with the VP of Torture. Freedom of speech is not a republican virtue. Your next move will be to visit the woodshed for a session with the VP of Torture.

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845893 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:05:48 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845893 If all us registered Republicans would sign up for Iraq duty, we should be able to field an on-the-ground force approaching 100 million people, requiring perhaps 200 million support staff. With 100 million troops on the ground, we could ensure that each and every Iraqi alive would have round-the-clock, 24/7 accompaniment by at least 1 US soldier, in 8 hour rotations. Anything less is surrendering to the Global Caliphate Jihad. Join Me Mike Crotch Republican Loyalist Comment by Langx I have served in the military. If all us registered Republicans would sign up for Iraq duty, we should be able to field an on-the-ground force approaching 100 million people, requiring perhaps 200 million support staff.

With 100 million troops on the ground, we could ensure that each and every Iraqi alive would have round-the-clock, 24/7 accompaniment by at least 1 US soldier, in 8 hour rotations.

Anything less is surrendering to the Global Caliphate Jihad.

Join Me

Mike Crotch

Republican Loyalist

Comment by Langx

I have served in the military.

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-2/#comment-3845888 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:05:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845888 For the sake of argument, let’s suppose that you’re entirely right that the war debate affects the morale of the soldiers. (This is an absurdly condescending view, and lacking any supporting evidence, but we’ll ignore this.) Has it ever occurred to you that the only way to avoid debate about the war is to shut down all debate about the war–meaning censoring the press, radio, television stations, magazines, and the Internet, and preventing Congress and the American people from mutual communication (as our system of representative government requires)? Even if this were possible (and probably could be done if the President declared martial law), it would undermine democratic self-government in this country and substitute the will of a single individual, that of the President, for the collective will of the American people (the definition of tyranny). Do you really want this? I doubt it. And remember–I granted all this only for the sake of argument. So, even if you’re right, which is most unlikely, it’s an unavoidable price to pay to maintain our democratic system. Comment by Prof. Mark Colby Did you even read what I posted? I never said a war debate should be stopped, actually I pointed out that I thought the opposite in post #23. I said that comments like it is a lost cause and we should never have been there weigh on them. I never said that the war debate should not occur. I would think that a professor would be better at reading than you seem to be. For the sake of argument, let’s suppose that you’re entirely right that the war debate affects the morale of the soldiers. (This is an absurdly condescending view, and lacking any supporting evidence, but we’ll ignore this.) Has it ever occurred to you that the only way to avoid debate about the war is to shut down all debate about the war–meaning censoring the press, radio, television stations, magazines, and the Internet, and preventing Congress and the American people from mutual communication (as our system of representative government requires)? Even if this were possible (and probably could be done if the President declared martial law), it would undermine democratic self-government in this country and substitute the will of a single individual, that of the President, for the collective will of the American people (the definition of tyranny). Do you really want this? I doubt it.

And remember–I granted all this only for the sake of argument. So, even if you’re right, which is most unlikely, it’s an unavoidable price to pay to maintain our democratic system.

Comment by Prof. Mark Colby

Did you even read what I posted? I never said a war debate should be stopped, actually I pointed out that I thought the opposite in post #23. I said that comments like it is a lost cause and we should never have been there weigh on them. I never said that the war debate should not occur. I would think that a professor would be better at reading than you seem to be.

]]> By: b http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-3845877 b Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:02:46 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845877 Prof. Colby, I am afraid we would all be stunned to find out how many people really would rather live under a tyrranical dictatorship. I don't know what else to conclude about some people anymore. If you are really insecure in your viewpoints, you need to listen to talk radio for some reassurance. If you are really uncomfortable with people being against wars you are for, you might rather those people just be prevented from talking at all. Why do you think Bill O'Reilly is so popular? He literally drowns out opposing viewpoints by yelling. People live vicariously through that. Prof. Colby,

I am afraid we would all be stunned to find out how many people really would rather live under a tyrranical dictatorship. I don’t know what else to conclude about some people anymore. If you are really insecure in your viewpoints, you need to listen to talk radio for some reassurance. If you are really uncomfortable with people being against wars you are for, you might rather those people just be prevented from talking at all. Why do you think Bill O’Reilly is so popular? He literally drowns out opposing viewpoints by yelling. People live vicariously through that.

]]> By: timmy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-3845875 timmy Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:02:03 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845875 As much as being stuck in an untenable situation? You don’t speak for the soldiers, so quit putting forth only half the equation. The soldiers know who supports them, and who is willing to see them go into combat without proper protection. Which are you? Comment by barfly And you speak for the soldiers? As much as being stuck in an untenable situation? You don’t speak for the soldiers, so quit putting forth only half the equation. The soldiers know who supports them, and who is willing to see them go into combat without proper protection. Which are you?

Comment by barfly

And you speak for the soldiers?

]]> By: Langx http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-3845792 Langx Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:38:12 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845792 Timmy: Join Me. I am looking for Republicans who believe like me. If all us registered Republicans would sign up for Iraq duty, we should be able to field an on-the-ground force approaching 100 million people, requiring perhaps 200 million support staff. With 100 million troops on the ground, we could ensure that each and every Iraqi alive would have round-the-clock, 24/7 accompaniment by at least 1 US soldier, in 8 hour rotations. Anything less is surrendering to the Global Caliphate Jihad. Join Me Mike Crotch Republican Loyalist Timmy: Join Me. I am looking for Republicans who believe like me.

If all us registered Republicans would sign up for Iraq duty, we should be able to field an on-the-ground force approaching 100 million people, requiring perhaps 200 million support staff.

With 100 million troops on the ground, we could ensure that each and every Iraqi alive would have round-the-clock, 24/7 accompaniment by at least 1 US soldier, in 8 hour rotations.

Anything less is surrendering to the Global Caliphate Jihad.

Join Me

Mike Crotch

Republican Loyalist

]]> By: Alejandro http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-3845777 Alejandro Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:34:42 +0000 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/07/lute-morale/#comment-3845777 <blockquote>Timmy, can we debate if it should even be called a war? Congress has the power for that but hasn’t done it so far so, for the sake of the troops let’s call it what it is. Any ideas on what it actually is?</blockquote> Colonial occupation.

Timmy, can we debate if it should even be called a war? Congress has the power for that but hasn’t done it so far so, for the sake of the troops let’s call it what it is.

Any ideas on what it actually is?

Colonial occupation.

]]>