Whitehouse: ‘You Can Safely Bet’ The List Of Fired Attorneys Came From The White House
Whitehouse: ‘You Can Safely Bet’ The List Of Fired Attorneys Came From The White House
Earlier this week, ThinkProgress sat down with Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) and asked him whether he believes the plan for purging U.S. attorneys originated from the Bush White House.
Whitehouse explained that tracking down who conceived of the list of fired U.S. attorneys was made much more difficult due to new rules employed by the Bush administration that greatly expanded the number of DoJ and White House employees that could talk to one another about criminal cases. During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in April, Whitehouse forced Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to admit previous firewalls between White House and DoJ staff had been torn down, allowing at least 400 White House officials and over 30 Justice officials to have discussions with one another about criminal cases.
Whitehouse told ThinkProgress why that matters:
WHITEHOUSE: So a Karl Rove to Kyle Sampson call about a case would have been out of bounds under the rules that had been developed for decades. Under the Bush Administration, they knocked down the rules, so there’s so many opportunities for that infiltration it’s hard to know where it came from. And that’s why I think we need to continue to pursue the investigation. By process of elimination if nobody in the Department of Justice knows where the list came from, then it may not have come from within the Department of Justice; it may have come from somewhere else. And given the likelihood here — it probably didn’t come from Congress; it probably didn’t come from the Governor of Iowa or, you know, the Mayor of Detroit. You can pretty well safely bet that the place that it came from was the White House.
Watch it:
The day after Monica Goodling acknowledged that she had an “uncomfortable” conversation with Gonzales in which the Attorney General appeared to try to “shape” her testimony, Sen. Whitehouse said, “It is surprising how often a whiff of obstruction of justice has reared its head in the course of this investigation.”
Whitehouse elaborated on that remark, noting that phone calls placed by DoJ official Michael Elston to the fired attorneys threatening them not to speak out serves as another example of obstruction of justice.
Whitehouse recalled that at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in March, he asked fired attorneys Bud Cummins, Carol Lam, David Iglesias, and John McKay what they would have done in their capacity as federal prosecutors after learning that the officials were trying to discourage witnesses from testifying. All four said they would have commenced an obstruction of justice investigation.
While federal prosecutors appear to agree that there is a basis for obstruction of justice, Whitehouse noted that members of “the Gonzales clique” have tried to “define deviancy down” and argue “that anything less than criminal obstruction of justice is no longer viewed as improper:”
WHITEHOUSE: Whenever you see anybody from the Department of Justice — anybody from the Gonzales clique from the Department of Justice — talk about this, they say three things over and over again. They say that it would be improper to attempt to influence or interfere with a particular case — they always use that phrase — a particular case, for an improper partisan purpose.
Now, that is a very accurate, lay description of the elements of criminal obstruction of justice. So it looks as if they may be trying to basically kind of define deviancy down, if you will, so that anything less than criminal obstruction of justice is no longer viewed as improper. So, that’s absolutely the wrong place for an Attorney General of the United States to be establishing the standard for his office. Absolutely the wrong one. And Jim Comey and other people have recognized that.
Transcript:
TP: You had an interesting quote the day after Monica Goodling testified, “It’s surprising how often a whiff of obstruction of justice has reared it’s head in the course of this investigation.” Could you elaborate on that comment a little bit. What do you see as — throughout this attorney scandal we’ve now had a number of witnesses testify — what are some of the most disturbing things that you’ve heard relating to this obstruction of justice issue.
WHITEHOUSE: Well, the Department of Justice, I don’t think has been truly forthcoming about what went on. A lot of it is hidden in the I don’t remember, I don’t recalls, that seem to be the hallmark of the testimony of Department of Justice officials. But, then there are other things that worry me a lot. The telephone call that the Department of Justice made to the fired U.S. Attorneys that warned them that if they continue to speak to Congress, the Department would be required to go after them and attack their reputations. In one of the hearings, we had four U.S. Attorneys in front of us, and having been one myself, I asked them what was a pretty straightforward question: if one of your witnesses in a grand jury investigation that you were pursuing came in and reported to you that they had been contacted by someone in the same way you had been contacted by the Department of Justice, what would you do? And four for four they said we’d open an investigation, we’d open an investigation into whether obstruction of justice had occurred. And then whenever you see anybody from the Department of Justice — anybody from the Gonzales clique from the Department of Justice — talk about this, they say three things over and over again. They say that it would be improper to attempt to influence or interfere with a particular case — they always use that phrase — a particular case, for an improper partisan purpose. Now, that is a very accurate, lay description of the elements of criminal obstruction of justice. So it looks as if they may be trying to basically kind of define deviancy down, if you will, so that anything less than criminal obstruction of justice is no longer viewed as improper. So, that’s absolutely the wrong place for an Attorney General of the United States to be establishing the standard for his office. Absolutely the wrong one. And Jim Comey and other people have recognized that.
TP: We’ve now heard from numerous senior Justice Department officials on this and all of them claim not to have been involved in naming the attorneys that were chosen to be fired and targeted. Senator Leahy has said that all evidence is that this leads to the White House, and I’m wondering if you share that view and if so, now that you’ve had so many interviews, do you have a better sense of how that worked at the White House or what the nexis of this was — who might have been involved?
WHITEHOUSE: Well, not too long ago we might have had a better idea because the contact between the White House and the Department of Justice were fairly carefully narrowed. On cases it was very specific. Very few people in the White House — the President, the Vice President, the White House Council, the Deputy White House Council — would have discussions with the Department of Justice about cases. And there were only a few people on the Department of Justice side who could take those calls — the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Assistant Attorney General. They changed all that. They kicked that wall down. There are now something like 400 people in the White House who talk to the Department of Justice about ongoing cases and about 40 in the Department of Justice who take those calls. So a Karl Rove to Kyle Sampson call about a case would have been out of bounds under the rules that had been developed for decades. Under the Bush Administration, they knocked down the rules, so there’s so many opportunities for that infiltration it’s hard to know where it came from. And that’s why I think we need to continue to pursue the investigation. By process of elimination if nobody in the Department of Justice knows where the list came from, then it may not have come from within the Department of Justice; it may have come from somewhere else. And given the likelihood here — it probably didn’t come from Congress; it probably didn’t come from the Governor or Iowa or, you know, the Mayor of Detroit. You can pretty well safely bet that the place that it came from was the White House. And so that’s what we need to explore, because they’re foreclosing other reasonable options with their testimony.
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56 Responses to “Whitehouse: ‘You Can Safely Bet’ The List Of Fired Attorneys Came From The White House”
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a whiff of obstruction of justice has reared its head in the course of this investigation.â€
June 9th, 2007 at 11:34 am???
Howza bout the effing stench of obstruction of justice!!!
RUC,
This smells like the frickin' dump on a 100 degree day.
The DoJ is totally corrupt, and needs to be swept clean -- from impeaching Gonzo to the lowliest intern -- they all need to be gone.
Then we can start on the White House.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:38 amI don't know, I think I would keep Iglesias and Comey...
June 9th, 2007 at 11:38 amYes the orders came down from Bush and Cheney in the White House.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:39 amNo trolls yet? Question: anyone else getting error messages when refreshing or going into a thread?
June 9th, 2007 at 11:42 amYes, Alex, I'll take where did the orders come from for $2,000.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:43 amI don’t know, I think I would keep Iglesias and Comey…
Comment by SKdeA
Iglesias is already gone, but I'd let him re-apply. Comey, too. :)
June 9th, 2007 at 11:45 amQuestion: anyone else getting error messages when refreshing or going into a thread?
Comment by JTitor
Yep, about half the time. But my comments are showing up!
June 9th, 2007 at 11:46 amJTitor, yeah, look at my comments on the previous thread. Site's on fire, cache is hosed.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:47 amSo Senator Whitehouse, when are you and your compatriots going to start doing something about all of this?
The year after Bush and his criminals are out of office?
Why isn't this proceeding further and with more of a sense of urgency?
June 9th, 2007 at 11:48 amNo Shlt! Any moron with half a brain knows this started at the top. The BIG question is what are the weak democrats with a small "d" and pee pee going to do about it. These guys are COWARDS! They have all of the power and none of the guts. Why did they want control, so they could fold at every turn? This is the weakest Congress in history. They are afraid of their own shadow! Apparently they have something that they are afraid of. I'd just like to know what it is.
Wake up you fools. The Republicans aren't going to give you a signed confession. Where is the Independent Counsel? Where's the Special Commitee to Impeach Gonzo and his boss? What are you cowards going to do about Darth Vader? If you don't want power then turn it back over to the last Rubberstamp guys. They at least faked like they were going to do something. You guys are all talk and NO ACTION!
June 9th, 2007 at 11:48 amJTitor, yeah, look at my comments on the previous thread. Site’s on fire, cache is hosed.
Comment by RUCerious
So if the site blinks off, we shouldn't be surprised?
Hint: Talk to me like I'm in 2nd grade. :-)
June 9th, 2007 at 11:49 amfrom tpm, a list of hired attys
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/014531.php
June 9th, 2007 at 11:52 amWho will investigte the investigators? Who will sweep the DoJ clean, if not the DoJ? Does Congress have the power to levy criminal charges?
There is much more than a "whiff" of obstruction in the air - there is wholsale criminalization of our government.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:53 amOh, I'm sorry Alex, I should have said the category first, CorruptMoFos, where did the orders come from for $2,000
June 9th, 2007 at 11:54 amre: comment 10. by dogjudge
What part of "serves at the pleasure of the President" don't you understand.
Whitehouse is going to do anything because Whitehouse clearly understands that just like the Valerie Plame affair there was no crime.
Whitehouse is simply trolling for slathering, far-left loons by re-hashing old news.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:58 amShould anyone be surprised that republicans in the Justice department are acting like the Sopranos?
"Define deviancy down†is the GOP's operative motto.
June 9th, 2007 at 11:58 amUnknown Democrat > Democrats believe it is safer to do nothing and voters will vote for them in 2008 anyways. They are wrong, because voters are anti-incumbents, so that means dumping old Democrats too.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:04 pmI guess the trolls are having their talking points coference call this morning....
June 9th, 2007 at 12:06 pm#18 - Debunked. Move along....
June 9th, 2007 at 12:15 pmZooey > I am a registered Democrat and I will NOT vote for any of them that voted to continue the funding for Iraq. They can go to Hell. Those who do not stand up to Bush are worthless in DC and must retire so real Democrats can take their places.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:21 pmYou liberals are crazy. The list was clearly sent down from God...
June 9th, 2007 at 12:23 pmI must confess to a sleepy double take at the headline: Whitehouse sez list came from the White House.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:55 pmbigger picture revealed here...
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/liberty_attack_scheme.html
view everything in historic context.
it's all the same game.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:59 pmZooey > I am a registered Democrat and I will NOT vote for any of them that voted to continue the funding for Iraq. They can go to Hell. Those who do not stand up to Bush are worthless in DC and must retire so real Democrats can take their places.
Comment by Jay Randal
Jay,
My comments at #20 was not directed at you. It was directed at the troll now at #16. The numbers changed for some reason.
June 9th, 2007 at 1:01 pmI must confess to a sleepy double take at the headline: Whitehouse sez list came from the White House.
Comment by Anacher Forester
I thought it was a confession! :D
June 9th, 2007 at 1:01 pmI will be very disappointed in the Democrats if this whole investigation results in nothing other than bad publicity for the Bush Crime family and the Republics. We seriously need to have someone in this pay for their crimes. Otherwise we are basically saying, "go ahead, commit a crime... you won't ever be held accountable for it".
June 9th, 2007 at 1:03 pma whiff...and the most of the members of congress are standing upwind right?
a whiff...yeah...just the tiniest whiffs haven't combined to become a big flippin stench?
June 9th, 2007 at 1:07 pmcorrection ...
a whiff...and most (skip the word the)
June 9th, 2007 at 1:08 pm#14 Who will investigate the investigators?
The Justice Department.
A branch of the Justice Department like the FBI.
A blue ribbon commission appointed by the Justice Department.
How about the Attorney General himself!
What you're still not happy?
June 9th, 2007 at 1:15 pmThanks all. Having problems with my system, but this appeared to be a TP issue.
June 9th, 2007 at 1:30 pmWhat part of “serves at the pleasure of the President†don’t you understand.
Whitehouse is going to do anything because Whitehouse clearly understands that just like the Valerie Plame affair there was no crime.
Whitehouse is simply trolling for slathering, far-left loons by re-hashing old news.
Comment by con10tious — June 9, 2007 @ 11:58 am
Finally, a sensibile comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is nothing in here to "debunk"
June 9th, 2007 at 2:05 pmWhat part of “serves at the pleasure of the Presidentâ€, AND with Senate approval, don’t you understand.
June 9th, 2007 at 2:13 pmOK Zooey > I understand the confusion now. Yes TP posting has been odd today with some posts vanishing or being deleted.
June 9th, 2007 at 2:26 pmSenator Whitehouse does not qualify to become a resident of the Whitehouse.
June 9th, 2007 at 2:34 pmWhat part of “serves at the pleasure of the Presidentâ€, AND with Senate approval, don’t you understand.
Comment by AkaDad — June 9, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
The Senate can go fukc themselves, oh that's right, they're already doing so!!!!!!!!!!!!11
June 9th, 2007 at 2:38 pmThe Senate can go fukc themselves, oh that’s right, they’re already doing so!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Comment by Mr. President
More meaningful subtlety... let's see, you were channeling Nixon before. Who now? No, wait, I got it... "BigDick" Cheney, VP In Charge of Graft, Corrpution, and Offical Govt Obscenities.
June 9th, 2007 at 2:49 pmSenata White House has be sticking his gut in front the camera quite a bit lately.
June 9th, 2007 at 5:50 pmMr. President
The Senate can go to hellacious hell. Off topic, they should have no say in the appointment in the JCS Chairman. They're braindead morons.
June 9th, 2007 at 6:04 pmMr. President
The Senate can go to hellacious hell. Off topic, they should have no say in the appointment in the JCS Chairman. They’re braindead morons.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 9, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
That they are, CT. They are so very, very braindead indeedy.
June 9th, 2007 at 6:13 pmWho dat?
June 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pmsheldon whitehouse is a brilliant new senator.. in our usa senate.... he should encourge greg palast to come and testify... he has about 500 e-mails... karl rove wrote. .and they all went over the laptop computers.. issued by the RNC... through the RNC system.... a violation of federal record keeping laws.. Karl Rove.. the gop operative... who stole 3 federal elections.. he just did not know.. how much bush is hated... you see independents and republicans voted against him in 2006... but the millions of voices of voters.. karl and bush stole.. with gop operatives helping.. will go down in history as the story .. the american press and media hid. THEY ALL KNOW.. BUT THEY DO NOT REPORT.... they have known since day one... the elections were stolen... trust?.. they have lost mine for the rest of my life.
June 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmMr. President, you're in the top of your class, I must say.
June 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmIs anybody here!!!!!?
June 9th, 2007 at 8:05 pm#16 con10tious
What part of “serves at the pleasure of the President†don’t you understand.
If that's an indication of how well you understand what this is about, you've got a whole lot of catching up to do.
I know it's fun for you to think that Bush can do anything he wants and nobody can make him stop, but that's not the way the Constitution is written and it's not what this country was founded on.
If you don't like our Constitution, go find yourself a nice dictatorship to live in.
June 9th, 2007 at 8:07 pm#39 CompTROLLER V-1
The Senate can go to hellacious hell. Off topic, they should have no say in the appointment in the JCS Chairman. They’re braindead morons.
...said the braindead moron.
June 9th, 2007 at 8:10 pmDon't lists of attorneys to be fired usually come from the White House?
June 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmComment by chimpeach
.....said the the unoriginal fluke.
June 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmWe need...
...Putin's KGB...
...to straighten the criminally TREASONOUS...
...Bush/Cheney/Rove White(man's) House out...
...there IS no rule of law that applies to THEM anyway...
...maybe some of Putin's KGB...
...can take Bushiva/Cheney/Rove, Gonzo and his DOJ officials...
...out for a "HOT" lunch...
June 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmProject Much?
June 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pmDon't fall in love with Comey. He's a Republican, too. He tweaked the warrantless snooping program and they went forward with it.
Please visit the Schapira blog, "What we know so far ...
... and tell 'em Big Mitch sent ya!
June 9th, 2007 at 11:21 pmOk, so why no action by Congress already?!?
June 10th, 2007 at 9:29 am[Test]
June 10th, 2007 at 8:16 pmPlease realize that the Senate does not have enough Dem votes. Notice how the House gets stuff passed? They have a majority of votes to get it done.
My Point: Don't blame the Senate for what it is not getting done. They are basically a 50-50 Senate. What needs to be done is to win more Dem Senate races.
It's all about the numbers and if can the Senate override a presdent's veto. We can't right now because we need more votes.
The Answer: Don't know the Senate Dems. Work like hell and give them more votes next election.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NUMERS!!!!!!!!!!!
June 11th, 2007 at 8:52 amIm from RI and I am so glad I voted for Whitehouse. The man he challenged was a good man but alas! he was a Republican and with Chaffee still sitting in the Senate all the crap, lies, misleading statements, false wars, cronyism, and otherwise criminal bullshit of this disgusting President and his fascist supporters would have gone totally unchallenged. Keep up the good work Senator and lets have more like you!!!
June 11th, 2007 at 12:50 pmTake your pick..Either you believe in Bush and fascism or you believe in what used to be American principles.
This is the second time a Texan has gotten us into a war for false reasons. God how I wish we could give that backward state back to Mexico!!
Whitehouse, "he da man." This whole adminsitration from the dummy that sits in the WH to the cabinet members on down are all incompetent drolls. This whole fricking administration is being run by the political arm of the neocons and far right. Not one piece of policy and statesmanship has come out Bushies Bunch in the last 6 1/2 years plus NO thanks to this Karl Rove who could sit on a dime and swing his feet.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:58 pm