Powell: Close Guantanamo Now, Restore Habeas
Powell: Close Guantanamo Now, Restore Habeas
This morning on NBC’s Meet the Press, Gen. Colin Powell strongly condemned the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, calling it “a major problem for America’s perception” and charging, “if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon.”
He also called for an end to the military commission system the Bush administration has created to try Guantanamo detainees. “I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system,” Powell said. He scoffed at criticism that the detainees would have access to lawyers and the writ of habeas corpus: “So what? Let them. Isn’t that what our system’s all about?”
“[E]very morning I pick up a paper and some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere, is using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds,” Powell said. “[W]e have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open… We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it.”
Watch it:
Powell also sounded off on conservatives, including Vice President Cheney, who oppose diplomacy with Syria and Iran, calling their view “short-sighted.” Powell endorsed direct talks “not to solve a particular problem or crisis of the moment or the day, but just to have dialogue with people who are involved in this region in so many ways.”
Transcript:
POWELL: But in this arc, which is centered now in Iraq, we have serious difficulties. Serious difficulties that have to be resolved, one, by getting this civil war resolved, and it’s going to take the Iraqis to do that. Two, I believe we should be talking to all of Iraq’s neighbors. I think we should be talking to Iran, we should be talking to Syria, not to solve a particular problem or crisis of the moment or the day, but just to have dialogue with people who are involved in this region in so many ways. And so I think it is short-sighted not to talk to Syria and Iran and everybody else in the region, and not just for the purpose of making a demand on them, and “I’ll only talk to you if you meet the demand I want to talk to you about.” That’s not the way to have a dialogue in my judgment.
RUSSERT: Guantanamo. Torture. When John McCain was seeking ways to deal with the issue of torture, you wrote him a letter and said this: “The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism.”
POWELL: Right.
RUSSERT: What do you mean?
POWELL: They are. Guantanamo has become a major, a major problem for America’s perception — as it’s seen, the way the world perceives America. And if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon. I’d close it. And I’d not let any of those people go. I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system. The concern was, well, then they’ll have access to lawyers, then they’ll have access to writs of habeas corpus. So what? Let them. Isn’t that what our system’s all about? And by the way, America, unfortunately, has too many people in jail, all of whom had lawyers and access to writs of habeas corpus. And so we can handle bad people in our system. And so I would get rid of Guantanamo and I’d get rid of the military commissions system, and use established procedures in federal law or in the manual for courts martial. I would do that because it’s more equatable and it’s more understandable in constitutional terms. But I’d also do it because every morning I pick up a paper and some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere, is using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds. So essentially we have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like the military commission. We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it. But remember what I started this discussion saying, don’t let any of them go. Put them in a different system, a system that is experienced, that knows how to handle people like this.
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20 minutes in, Powell said he didn’t understand why concerns over the intelligence (on WMD’s) wasn’t brought up to them “when they were at the CIA EVERY NIGHT TILL MIDNIGHT.”
Can can anyone else say “strong arming the CIA to cook the intelligence”?
June 10th, 2007 at 10:10 amFinally, a true american “patriot” steps forward with TRUTH! It’s a shame that Colin was somehow blackmailed into selling his soul to the devil for oil when he was used as Bush’s puppet, isn’t it?
June 10th, 2007 at 10:12 amBush’s legacy will be a new cookbook entitled: “Cookin’ the Books Washington-Style”.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:12 ammornin veritas!
well, I guess better late than never for Powell…..
June 10th, 2007 at 10:15 ampowell is a coward and a failure…what he should have said was
“gitmo must be closed yesterday, it was moronic to open use it in the first place, we are supposed to be winning the hearts and minds of these people and instead we bread contempt.
whoever thought gitmo was good strategy is a moronâ€
that would have been sublime since the decision is worse then moronic and depraved it was deliberately intended to promote hatred against this country and our cause fighting terrorism
June 10th, 2007 at 10:19 amBetter late than never.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:21 amPowell’s statement is the equivalent of easing one’s ass into a hot bathtub – he’s committd to taking the plunge, but he doesn’t want the shock and pain of sudden immersion.
Powell could do the country a huge service by fessing up and being forthright in his assessment of the current situation in Iraq, including his role, and the roles of others, in bringing it about.
If this man has a drop of integrity left in his body (and I hope he does), he’ll do it without regard for his own wellbeing, and he won’t pull any punches.
Colin Powell: the time for patriotism has arrived.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:28 am. . . and thanks to neocon cheerleaders like Powell we are mired in an unending occupation of Iraq that has cost us 3,506 dead and untold number of lives torn to pieces. At any time in the lead-up to the war he could have stood up and said, “No” and be believed. Instead he chose to toe the neocon line and look where we ended up. Guys like this just need to go away.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:35 amWhat’s this ? George Tenet take 2 ?
Yes let’s all praise someone for waiting until they have left office and lost influence to call for something that they could have while in office and had influence.
Seriously, what could be more stupid assessment than this:
Rudy Guliani, the time to step up as mayor of NYC has come!
June 10th, 2007 at 10:39 amI agree with veritas – Colin Powell does have black marks on his record in this matter – a lot of them – but what he’s been doing lately does deserve to be recognized and appreciated as patriotic. After all, he carries a lot of clout with Republicans and instead of either towing party lines or being silent, he’s speaking out. We should appreciate that, no matter how much we might still be angry about his role in getting us into this bloody occupation in the first place.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:39 amWhy Colin Powell hate our troops?
June 10th, 2007 at 10:40 amMalcom X had a term for people like powell. He never had the guts to tell the truth when he was in a position to influence events. All he did was say, “Are WE sick, boss?”
June 10th, 2007 at 10:41 ami believe it’s been at least 15 minutes since i posted a comment, and nothing has happened…
sheesh!!!!!
June 10th, 2007 at 10:42 amWith liberty for som and injustice for all. The republicans and the rich of course are to face no penalties for breaking the law. The democrats are to face penalties for being democrats, especially around election time. The regular folk, middle and lower classes, must tow the line and not get uppity or forget their place. And poor sons of bitches who happened to be sold to the US for a bounty must be tortured for being muslims.
What wonderful things the republicans have done to this country.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:44 amYes let’s all praise someone for waiting until they have left office and lost influence to call for something that they could have while in office and had influence.
Comment by Kilo — June 10, 2007 @ 10:39 am
Obviously you’ve never been in a position of semi-authority to know that it isn’t always that easy. You think you can affect change from within. It isn’t until you realize that you have no real power among these people that you leave and begin making change from a different perspective of power. And yes, he does have power. It’s just a different type than when he wore the title. It doesn’t change the fact that he has the inside information and the right to criticize from power. Think about it.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:47 amWhat wonderful things the republicans have done to this country.
Comment by foolme1ns — June 10, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Well said…
June 10th, 2007 at 10:49 amI agree, this is just like Tenent, trying to ditch the Bush Administration and its now hugely unpopular tactics. I actually used to admire Powell (pre-GW admin.), but I have lost all respect for the man. Where were these voices pre-war, I mean it is rather easy to get on the anti-Bush/Cheney wagon now!!
June 10th, 2007 at 10:50 amToo late, Mr. Powell. Your good reputation from Iraq War I is gone and it is NOT coming back. You cannot be trusted. We’ve learned our lesson: Cheney and Rumsfeld were allowed to come back from the “dead” of the Ford administration, and they pooped all over us. We’re moving on to real Democrats (if they still exist), not fake ones.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:52 amYou know, I’m getting damn sick and tired of all these former Bush followers all of a sudden getting a conscience. Where was Powell when he could have done something good for this country? He knew very well that Bush was cooking the books on the Iraq intel. If he truly had a conscience and a soul, he would have quit the Bush administration, called a press conference and announced to the world that Bush was lying to us all in order to invade Iraq. But, he didn’t do that. He not only kept quiet, he went along with Bush’s plan.
Sorry Mr. Powell, it’s to little too late.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:52 amhmm..Joe Lieberman just said he wants to attack iran on Face the Nation. I have a feeling that will be on here shortly.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:54 amYou view that as an assessment? I think it’s more of a call to action.
How about this: Collin Powell: even though you still have influence and your words today could help undo the damage you did yesterday, we’d prefer that you stay silent while the juggernaught continues without abatement. You’re being punished.
Is that what you’re looking for?
BTW: WTF are you on about?
A more stupid assessment: Kilo is a deep thinker.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:59 amSorry Mr. Powell, it’s to little too late.
Comment by Kate Henry
I agree with that statement, Kate, as it applies to those of us who are paying attention to these people and the things they’ve done.
However, I’m very glad wimps like Powell are finally speaking up, because so many people are not paying attention. Those people (aka sheep) might perk up and take notice of the things Powell is saying, because of the respect they probably still have for him — and that’s what we need them to do — PAY ATTENTION.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:02 amA conservative using his brain that is astonishing.Ron Paul fashion.Lets help “conserve” this species, conservatives with a brain, and exterminate the other family of neanderthal conservatives.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:11 amwell, I guess better late than never for Powell…..
Comment by whiteyfresh
No sh*t… why the fcuk didn’t he speak up when it might have mattered?
June 10th, 2007 at 11:12 amPowell, Powell, Powell, Powell, Powell,
What are we going to do?
You sold us a war,
That now you abhor,
A decision that now you rue.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:16 amHaving read a few of the posts that trash Powell for his involvment in getting us into this situation, as opposed to encouraging him to continue speaking out against the current situation, I think a few posters are willing to forgo the goal of stopping the madness in favor of meting out punishment in the form of shunning.
Is there no value in an act of redemption?
Colin Powell could add a desperately needed voice that, by virtue of his stature amongst the Rethugs, could sway a great many people to likewise abandon their previously held opinions.
To disallow him the opportunity to do so isn’t smart – it’s shamefully angry and not at all in the interest of change.
Y’all talk like liberals, but behave like conservatives. Nice.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:16 amSeriously, what could be more stupid assessment than this:
Comment by Kilo
One thing we can all be sure of, Kilo, when that “more stupid assessment arrives” in our midtst, it will undoubtedly come from you…
June 10th, 2007 at 11:16 amIt does matter now.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:18 amWhen a man sells his soul,
Is he forever precluded from redeeming himself?
To those who condemn him for mistakes made years ago, would you want to be held to the same standard? Are any one of us really worthy of throwing stones?
June 10th, 2007 at 11:18 amDo you think a wingnut would recycle a story as if its todays news?
Will they go to no length to misinform the faithful.
This is a classic
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6184.html#comments
June 10th, 2007 at 11:23 amMr. Powell will be remembered for his treason. A shining example of someone that knows all the facts, yet told none to the congress, or the people of this country. His silence enabled a criminal enterprise to take over this country to make money for their members.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:32 amMr. Powell, why don’t you do the right thing. Ask congress to accept your testimony about the crimes committed and of course you can confirm or deny all the statements made by the criminals that employed you. You have no other choice. If you want redemption, even in it’s small part, then you answer to the people of this country. If not, realize that you will be branded traitor for your good work. History is unkind to traitors. You have a little time left.
We don’t need it, and it’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it.â€
but, but, but what about all those nukes ready to go off in our shopping centers plots we’ve prevented because of guantanimo indefintie detention and torture? And I know nukes in our shopping centers a real issue because bed-wetter republican britty hume told me so.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:33 am.
Comment by oldtree — June 10, 2007 @ 11:32 am
Exactly. Powell needs encouragement to continue – not to be beaten back as soon as he opens the door.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:38 amColin Powell could add a desperately needed voice that, by virtue of his stature amongst the Rethugs,
powell probably has more credibility among democrats than he does among republicans (precisely because democrats are a forgiving lot – usually to a flaw.) Certainly the cult of republicanism 28 percenters have no more use for him – they got what they needed from him and he no longer toes the line.
By in large, powell is completely marginalized in the public sphere. He needs to work on his redemption helping the poor and needy – there is nothing he can do to undo the horror he visited upon humanity.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:40 am.
Powel is coming around. These people will all come around…and what they must ultimately come around to..is the needs for fair trials , jury convictions , then first-class hangings for those who are responsible for this historic debacle…
June 10th, 2007 at 11:47 amHmmmm, the comment count says 33, but I’m seeing 24. *sigh*
June 10th, 2007 at 11:48 am“Put them in our system, but don’t let anyone go.” uh, suppose there is no evidence to keep them? Powell is suggesting now a different version of authoritarianism, a different interpretation of our Constitution and no one has the chops to ask the logical questions. He is still the ultimate liar and coward only now he gets new talking points.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:49 amComment by pleuge — June 10, 2007 @ 11:40 am
I think you misunderstand what motivates the 28 percenters. They are motivated, primarily, by an inability to admit they’ve made a bad decision (ever), and a fly-in-the-face-of evidence defense of their philosophy. Many of them vocally supported Powell during his tenure as SoS. Having done so, and Powell now finding Jesus, so to speak, places these folks on th horns of a dilemma.
Powell might be old and beat up, but so is my framing hammer. Nonetheless, it still drives a nail quite well, and I’d be stupid to throw it away.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:52 amWelcome back, General Powell. We missed you in 2002.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:54 amPowell had everyone’s trust and he betrayed it when he became a salesman for the lethal product known as the Iraq war. We needed him then. Now, it is too late.
June 10th, 2007 at 11:55 amKilo is right. It is pathetic, sad and frightening to watch the likes of Tenet and Powell shamelessly try to be credible when they were the archtects of this fiasco and now try to position themselves for a place in whatever comes after. Powell came to town once here 10 years ago with Zig Ziglar and Mary Lou Retton to speak to insurance salesmen and Mary Kay reps on how to fool people. You can fool some of the people all of the time…
June 10th, 2007 at 11:57 amWhat the heck is going on with TP and the no-show postings?
This thread should have 30+ posts, but is only showing 19.
Anyone else having this problem?
June 10th, 2007 at 11:59 am(I know of one other poster.)
Rob Thair has a good point.
My understanding is that a number of the prisoners at Guantanimo have been held without charge. Powell says to close Guantanimo, but “don’t let anyone go.” If they enter our legal system, at least the way I understand it, they would have to be charged with a crime – or let go.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:00 pmAnother one. Where were you when we needed you? First Tenet cashes in, and now you are for Guantanamo’s closing. What about Iraq? What about your selling the occupation of Iraq at the UN?
Powell has no credibility whatsoever.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:06 pm#29 Comment by Briseadh na Faire — June 10, 2007 @ 11:18 am
When a man sells his soul,
Is he forever precluded from redeeming himself?
To those who condemn him for mistakes made years ago, would you want to be held to the same standard? Are any one of us really worthy of throwing stones?
This is not a case of a “good man” gone bad. Or as you put it “When a man sells his soul”. Powell was always a man who believed in the U.S. building and using its military might where ever it wanted. He was always a neocon, differing from the Cheney neocon faction only in how to use that military might. He wanted to use it narrowly while Cheney wanted to use it as they have during the last 6 years.
Powell did not “make mistakes” as you put it. He followed his ideology. He chose the course of action he followed with “malice of forethought” as they say. Powell’s problem was that Cheney won the political battle, and the result of that was that he was sidelined and eventually kicked out. Since then he has been critical of BushCo, but belatedly, and more to refurbish his reputation than to be a voice against the devastation in Iraq that he is responsible for bringing about.
For me, it would take a complete renunciation, by Powell, of his neocon ideology before I would begin to look favorably on his “change of heart” that we see today.
Until that renunciation comes, he is a neocon and nothing more, and bears full responsibility for the invasion of Iraq.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:07 pmTP, please fix your comments problem!
June 10th, 2007 at 12:11 pmSome disingenuous thinking going on in here regarding Powell’s statements. The basis of the argument that Powell can’t, at this point, make a positive difference in the political debate is fallacious: I hate the messenger, therefore the message is false, or; The messenger lied before, therefore he must be lying now.
Here you go:
Powell said that Gitmo was wrong (he actually said it was “damaging”) and Habeas needs to be restored – and you want to disagree with him, or shut him up?
And you think this is a wise course of action?
Pragmatism requires a little more intellect and a lot less emotion (pragmatism isn’t the Rethugs strong suit). Stop acting like a bunch of emotionally overwrought Republicans.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:17 pm#39 Comment by DM — June 10, 2007 @ 11:54 am
You welcomed:
Welcome back, General Powell. We missed you in 2002.
Why are you welcoming a neocon back? And what does “back” mean?
He was never a Democrat or a liberal. He worked in both Bush Administrations but refused Clinton’s offer of a job. Do you believe he was one of “us” until 1992?
Please explain.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:23 pmfool me once…
why would any sane person ever put any stock in powell ever again?
why would any manipulative, lying, vile cult of republicanism 28 percenter give a rats ass what powell has to say?
ANSWER TO BOTH QUESTIONS: They wouldn’t.
powell’s best move is to try and find his shredded, defiled soul by helping those most in need.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:24 pm.
Later TP, this is ridiculous….
June 10th, 2007 at 12:30 pmSo, you’re saying that Powell is trying to “fool you” by saying that Gitmo is bad and Habeas is essential?
While I do feel your pain(Powell is no Saint), I disagree with your assertion that it renders his input valueless.
As for the second question, I’d like to be able to begin to referring to them as “the 20 percenters”.
Finally, what if “those most in need” are confined in Gitmo, or worse – simply “disappeared” from the face of the earth (not easily done under habeas corpus)?
Don’t forget the reality-based goal in all of this.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:35 pmWhile these Arabs are waiting for trial in the United States, I suggest they stay in Colin Powell’s home.
See how he likes them.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:38 pm“Put them in our system, but don’t let anyone go.†uh, suppose there is no evidence to keep them? Powell is suggesting now a different version of authoritarianism,
No, powell rightly is saying either you trust your own legal system or you don’t. Put them into our only real legal system and see what happens. If you have no evidence against these people then you have no business holding them, you have no right to hold them; doing so is in fact a crime in our legal system, in the international legal system, and in the court of decency and humanitry.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:41 pm.
#10 Comment by unbelievable — June 10, 2007 @ 10:39 am
You said:
Colin Powell does have black marks on his record in this matter – a lot of them – but what he’s been doing lately does deserve to be recognized and appreciated as patriotic.
Patriotic? Well, that depends.What he is doing and saying is useful and the right thing to say. Why he is saying these things is an open question. I think that until Powell publicly renounces his neocon roots, beliefs and past actions, (which go way back into the 80s at least) to say he is being patriotic is wishful thinking.
I welcome what Powell says when it is real and in this countries interest. His is a voice that, even with his bad history, carries weight with the public. But let’s not suddenly embrace him automatically as the “prodigal son” as some here have written. He has a history to admit to, and take full responsibility for.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:43 pmWe were driving south on US 31 toward Indianapolis while listening to Gen. Powell’s “WMD and other Saddam crimes” speech at the United Nations in February, 2003.
If we could tell he was not telling the truth just by listening to his voice that day, why couldn’t everyone else?
He may have some valuable things to say now, but the first of these is a huge mea culpa, followed by asking the the casualties of this “war” to forgive him.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:45 pmPowell doesn’t give a shit about torture. He is just concerned with the international *perception* of the US. He don’t give a fukc about human rights.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:45 pmPowell could have stopped Bush years ago, and never allowed GITMO to become an outrage, so he is a tad late.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:45 pmI welcome what Powell says when it is real and in this countries interest. His is a voice that, even with his bad history, carries weight with the public. But let’s not suddenly embrace him automatically as the “prodigal son†as some here have written. He has a history to admit to, and take full responsibility for.
Comment by Merlin
Like I said above, Powell needs to keep talking — not for OUR benefit, we know what he’s about — but for the benefit of the sheeple.
I don’t care what’s motivating him now, and I probably will never respect the man again. I just want him to keep talking.
June 10th, 2007 at 12:52 pmHow could Powell think we were so stupid to believe drawings,not the real deal, were really mobile wmd outlets?? Sadly the American public believed Powell rather than their lying eyes!!! This guy is just one more useful dupe of a government gone wild!!
June 10th, 2007 at 12:54 pmWhy are you welcoming a neocon back? And what does “back†mean?
He was never a Democrat or a liberal. He worked in both Bush Administrations but refused Clinton’s offer of a job. Do you believe he was one of “us†until 1992?
Why the hell would he want to work for Clinton? Bill was trying to turn our military into a homosexual breeding ground.
General Powell, with 35 years of military experience, and 3 as Chairman of the JC, told him it was a bad idea. Clinton ignored him.
June 10th, 2007 at 1:02 pm#59 Comment by nullHarvey Slavin — June 10, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
You stated:
This guy is just one more useful dupe of a government gone wild!!
No he isn’t! He WAS the government. He was living and pushing the ideology that spawned the invasion of Iraq! He believed wholeheartedly in what BushCo did. He was not a dupe! (Some dumb unsuspecting fool who was used.) Read “Rise of the Vulcans” by James Mann and then tell me he was nothing more than a “dupe.”
June 10th, 2007 at 1:06 pm#60 Comment by m12 — June 10, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
I’m glad you agree he is one of your neocons and not a Democrat.
June 10th, 2007 at 1:08 pmPowell will suffer the same fate as the VN gang of Rusk, McNamara, Westmoreland et al – scorned, shunned, and ridiculed by most…there is no second chance or redemption when you take America to war based on a lie, deal with it Powell
June 10th, 2007 at 1:33 pmWelcome back, General Powell. We missed you in 2002.
Too true.
June 10th, 2007 at 1:42 pm#2 Comment by veritas — June 10, 2007 @ 10:12 am
You said:
Finally, a true american “patriot†steps forward with TRUTH! It’s a shame that Colin was somehow blackmailed into selling his soul to the devil for oil when he was used as Bush’s puppet, isn’t it?
Sorry I’m so late in responding to your post. Finally finished reading all the comments.
1. Powell is not a true American Patriot. He never was IMO.
2. Powell was never “blackmailed into selling his soul to the devil for oil”. He was a neocon long before the first gulf war. So it is not a “shame” as it never happened that way.
3. He was not Bush’s puppet. He believed everything BushCo stood for and did. He only differed on how to deal with Sadaam. He wanted regime change in Iraq. He just wanted to do it in a way that avoided his “pottery barn rule.”
June 10th, 2007 at 1:43 pmComment by Sean — June 10, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Welcome back, General Powell. We missed you in 2002.
Too true.
Too true? Really? Then I will repeat my post from above and ask you to explain your seconding of DMs post. He has not answered yet.
#39 Comment by DM — June 10, 2007 @ 11:54 am
You welcomed:
Welcome back, General Powell. We missed you in 2002.
Why are you welcoming a neocon back? And what does “back†mean?
He was never a Democrat or a liberal. He worked in both Bush Administrations but refused Clinton’s offer of a job. Do you believe he was one of “us†until 1992?
Please explain.
June 10th, 2007 at 1:50 pmColin Powell put GOP loyalty over the loyalty of the United States – he should have quit when he disagreed about the war – end of story – assuming he really did disagree about the war…..
June 10th, 2007 at 2:07 pmThose of us who disdain the fallen General for his attempt at rehabilitating his image are not trying to shut him up. That would be Republican. We are simply saying that this isn’t going to do it for us. We have been badly betrayed by those in power, which included Powell and if he wants us to see him as the strong, smart leader we used to think he was, he will have to go a lot farther. You know he distinguished himself in Vietnam by covering up the Mai Lai Massacre…he didn’t rise to the top by being a stand-up guy. He serves his masters well. He is a “good soldier”; do you think he can change that now?
He can say countless things that we’ve all known for years and it will not redeem him. He will not sacrifice his image by coming clean. He is a coward, period. A well-spoken coward but a coward for sure.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:09 pmI think it’d make sense to stand in front of the Supreme Court with a sign that read “Hadeas Who??”
ON Countdown, Keith Olberman repeatedly showed video clips of President Bush signing the bill in question related to hadeaus corpus.
It must bear noting that standing behind the President were Peter Pace, Lindsey Graham, John Warner, James Sensenbrenner as well as a few others. This should never be forgiven and should be shown as many times as Paris Hilton’s mugshot.
While this doesn’t provide immediate and comprehensive cover to Powell, it’s an important step at least. It is one which needs to be followed up on. We’ll then see where Powell really stands.
We are truly in a profoundly hypocritical political climate.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:12 pmMore evidence of the moral/intellectual bankruptcy of the GOP — Powell is (in my view) the only Republican who could possibly win the presidency in ‘08. And they screwed him in the ass and tossed him aside.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:15 pmI think of General Powell here in the Bronx, NYC, where he is from, the South Bronx where I lived as a child for a number of years in public housing, and I think of his role as having “to serve the President” and all the military tradition that would have been thrown out with the bathwater if he hadn’t. As a onetime possible “contender” for higher office I am reminded of the story of another New Yorker, from modest means, Theodore Roosevelt who its said, was given the Vice-Presidency so he wouldn’t have a lot to say, which he did, and helped bring the country into the 20th century. It’s unfortunate, that very questionable intelligence was given to him to present at the UN, but fortunate for us that he still will speak his mind on important American issues and still shows insight into current affairs. He could have just went on fixing his Volvos and said nothing.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:28 pm#
To think Gore wanted this guy for VP.
Here the wingnuts are recycling stories.
This is classic.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6184.html#comments
Comment by Langx — June 10, 2007 @ 11:42 am
#
Do you think a wingnut would recycle a story as if its todays news?
Will they go to no length to misinform the faithful.
This is a classic
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/6184.html#comments
Comment by Mike Crotch — June 10, 2007 @ 11:23 am
#
Look – a clear example of the abuse of comments by a troll who is posting under multiple names!
Please ignore Mike Crotch and Langx.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:29 pmThe republican fundraiser’s darling…tuff Mitt Romney…wants to DOUBLE the size of Guantanamo. This tells me that the republicans are Divided, and they can Kiss the Independent voters goodbye.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:44 pmPowell should run for President.
June 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pmFinally!!!! Powell has always been the only – ONLY – Bush cabinet member I’ve respected – his UN appearance aside. Why it has taken so long for him to come out of the Bush closet is hard to understand. But now, although laudable, it’s too little, too late. Run for President? Nah, it would be a pity if he did. He can be of more use by speaking his mind.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:09 pmI believe that he will be the Republican draft choice after the
criminals and whack jobs have taken the next year to bleed each other
dry.
Here is the President that we need. Here is the man for whom I will
cast my vote without a second thought.
Lantern Bearer
June 10th, 2007 at 3:12 pmHere is the President that we need. Here is the man for whom I will
cast my vote without a second thought.
Lantern Bearer
There’s your problem — right there.
Jeebus…..
June 10th, 2007 at 3:19 pm#75 Comment by Ozzie Alfonso — June 10, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
You said:
Finally!!!! Powell has always been the only – ONLY – Bush cabinet member I’ve respected
He sure had you fooled! Unless you like neocons.
And you added:
Run for President? Nah, it would be a pity if he did. He can be of more use by speaking his mind.
If he ran for president, he would by simply “BushCo light.” And as for speaking his “changed” mind, don’t give him too much credit. What he said above sounds OK but there is negativity when you scratch through the surface. He still believes in the neocon ideology.
When he really addresses his neocon ideology, and publically rejects, it I will begin to respect and look up to Colin Powell. Not until then.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:21 pmThe republican fundraiser’s darling…tuff Mitt Romney…wants to DOUBLE the size of Guantanamo. This tells me that the republicans are Divided, and they can Kiss the Independent voters goodbye.
Comment by Badger
But… but… Mitt’s got shoulders to die for… and distinguished grey in his hair… how can we not consider this man to be Presidential timber?
June 10th, 2007 at 3:30 pmDon’t even think about civil disobedience. They’ll ship you to Guantanamo and you’ll never be heard from again.
So what would hurt Cheney, Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz the most? Ship them to Iraq and have them tortured by the terrorist on world TV using the same tactics they’ve used in Cuba. One can only hope.
Jenny
June 10th, 2007 at 3:43 pmhttp://www.spaml.com
#77 Here is the President that we need. Here is the man for whom Comment by Zooey — June 10, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
I will
cast my vote without a second thought.
Lantern Bearer
There’s your problem — right there.
Jeebus…..
Spot on, Zooey. And yet here is another person who knows only the MSM version of Colin Powell. That Powell is this incredible General who is the loyal trooper who licked Bush’s shoes and was then kicked under the bus. A man who has great and good thoughts that were just not listened to before.
I think these folks who have bought into this MSM Powell myth, have not even had ONE thought. (An MSM reactive knee jerk.) They need to read up on Powell’s history and realize he is a neocon through and through. Always was and continues to be today. What he did at the UN, came from his neocon belief, not because he toadied up to BushCo. He is sorry now only because the invasion/occupation failed and his reputation was ruined, not because it was wrong morally and ethically.
Powell would be a neocon president, allbeit a sneakier and more subtle one. Take his statement above about “…don’t let any of them go. Put them in a different system.” This nicely sweeps rendition under the rug, and makes no real change in fairness, or the reality of many who should never have been imprisoned in the first place.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:46 pmPowell is a careerist and always has been- or at least
June 10th, 2007 at 3:48 pmback to when he looked the other way at My Lai. Really
investigating would have been a career buster. Don’t waste your energy. The man is without courage.
#6
Better late than never.
Comment by Vincennes — June 10, 2007 @ 10:21 am
———-
But even better never than late.
June 10th, 2007 at 3:52 pm#82 Comment by Paul Arnett — June 10, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Powell is a careerist and always has been…
“Careerist” in Powell’s case is a euphemism for opportunist. He rode the neocon wave until it crashed on Iraq, leaving him stranded on the beach. Now he wants to be seen as the great surfer, but has no board to support him and does not know how to swim in the waters of honesty and reality.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:05 pmDarth Cheney most likely felt threatened by Colin Powell’s intelligence and rationality that he ordered Chimpy to get rid of him.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:10 pmWhy didn’t he act like this when is moral authority mattered? I actually broke down and cried, just reading the first paragraph. Euphemism-double-deleted.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:18 pmDarth Cheney most likely felt threatened by Colin Powell’s intelligence and rationality that he ordered Chimpy to get rid of him.
Comment by Squonk — June 10, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Maybe it was simpler than that. A simple clash over the details of how to put Plan A into motion. They both wanted to invade Iraq. Cheney was by far the better political infighter (wanting pre-emptive shock and awe) and over rode Powell was for a more moderate approach (like the Gulf War where the world was with us.) He became marginalized and Rumsfeld (Defense) essentially replaced Powell (the State Dept.) in the power structure. I don’t believe that there was any “intelligence and rationality” involved. Just as there was no ethics or morals involved either.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:24 pmWhy didn’t he act like this when is moral authority mattered?
Because he was just like them. He was a neocon! And he still is. He is no better today than he has been going all the way back the the Mei Lie problem during the Viet Nam war. Read his history!
June 10th, 2007 at 4:32 pmGitmo hasn’t shaken just the world’s view of US justice, but America’s as well.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:37 pmOkay. Powell is saying what needs to be said. That’s what’s important here.
Like or dislike the man all you want. It’s like someone above said: when you’re in a Position Of Power [tm], there’s actually VERY little authority that one can use. Nobody in this thread was in the halls of power when Powell was Secretary of State, and nobody knows what was said during deliberations on any of this stuff. But it’s a fair bet that, if Powell had demonstrably failed to toe the Bush line, he’d have been in a position of no power whatsoever. Better to do what he was told at the time (Powell is, if nothing else, a solider), get out of office in a semi-honorable way (better to quit than to be fired, of course), and THEN use what authority he can scrape up to present the message he actually wants to.
I don’t have to like him to be glad he’s saying what needs to be said. And as long as he’s doing so, I say USE HIM. I don’t have to like my car for it to take me to work, and I certainly won’t refuse to use it just because I don’t like it.
Personally, I’m not for or against him. He’s just a guy.
June 10th, 2007 at 4:53 pmMr. Powell:
I have followed the ways of our demise since Vietnam.
I know you went up the ladder by ass-kissing…whereby real soldiers…like Col. Hackworth and his buddies did not buy the bullshit and left the military.
You…In your own terms…said that an exit-strategy was to be upheld.
You…You f*cking goof…with two sinister f*ckers sitting behind you in the UN meeting…pleaded for a war with the Iraqi people.
I…as a veteran…am ashamed of you.
I hope and desire bad tidings on you and your family…You are a treasonous f*ck…and…all your military finances should be stripped from you. Meaning? Meaning this ~ No more retirement money. You have relinquished your post. You failed.
I have no more time for you. You lied and you deceived.
May the gods of Vahalla laugh at you…you fricking joke of an officer of the U.S. Army.
June 10th, 2007 at 5:05 pmAgain with the damned comments thing…
June 10th, 2007 at 5:52 pmWhat apparently none of you nor Powell understands is the distinction between Prisoners of War and Criminals. POW’s are people who are sworn to hurt us during a war. As such, we best keep them jailed until the end of the conflict. For an illustration of why, rent “Saving Prinvate Ryan.” Criminals are people who have committed a crime. So, if I strap on a belt of explosives and wade around a public area smiling but do not ignite the explosions, I’ve done nothing actionable. Thus, most of the Gitmo folks WOULD BE LET GO, Dufus. That is why POWs are never treated as criminals. They haven’t blown our heads off YET. So, Powell is blowing smoke out his ass for reasons I don’t understand…and someone should explain to all of you this basic thing. I suspect however, it wouldn’t matter. Most of you would not only let them go, but put them up in a posh hotel in Manhattan with access to nuclear bomb instructions.
Please, just do me a favor and keep posting on the internet next election day and don’t go to the polls. The world is a better place with you not voting.
June 10th, 2007 at 5:52 pmAnd who asked you, Colon?
June 10th, 2007 at 5:59 pmSpot on, Zooey. And yet here is another person who knows only the MSM version of Colin Powell. That Powell is this incredible General who is the loyal trooper who licked Bush’s shoes and was then kicked under the bus. A man who has great and good thoughts that were just not listened to before.
Comment by Merlin
Merlin,
You’re missing the greater point. Sure, Lantern Bearer is just a big old sheep — but he’s listening to Powell. It only matters to US that Powell sold his soul to the neo-con cause — the sheeple won’t hear it.
The sheeple are listening to Powell, and that’s what we need them to do! They’ll listen to Powell, and maybe they’ll perk up their ears and say, “What is going on here?”
THAT’S WHAT WE NEED NOW!!
June 10th, 2007 at 6:00 pmPlease, just do me a favor and keep posting on the internet next election day and don’t go to the polls. The world is a better place with you not voting.
Comment by Kay Makinney
F*ck off, moron bedwetter.
Those people held at Gitmo are not designated POWs and have not been adjudicated criminals. Maybe it’s fine in your narrow little world to hold people without charge indefinitely, but around here we like to stick to a little thing called the CONSTITUTION.
You know — your King’s “god-damned peice of paper.”
June 10th, 2007 at 6:03 pmOnce again, Colin Powell disappoints.
Yes, we should close Gitmo for many reasons having to do with our image in the world’s eyes but, true to conservative form, he misses the real issue.
Guantanamo and the torture that occurs there is immoral and illegal and we are (all of us) guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity for tolerating it.
So, if the world wasn’t castigating us for Gitmo, if “…some authoritarian figure, some person somewhere…” wasn’t “…using Guantanamo to hide their own misdeeds” it would be okay? I don’t think so but, evidently, Powell does because those are his arguments… Realpolitik worthy of Kissinger but not real American moral values.
June 10th, 2007 at 6:10 pmGlad to see Powell’s head coming slowly out of his ass.
June 10th, 2007 at 6:13 pmOnly problem is he’s about six or seven years late.
#93 Comment by Kay Makinney — June 10, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
You sputtered the comment above, and it is my view that you are a class A dunce. You haven’t the slightest idea what you are talking about. Fear based non thinking nonsense. To use your words, you are blowing smoke out of your ass, for reasons I don’t understand. Either that or you are a troll. I can’t tell which.
Maybe you should tell me!
June 10th, 2007 at 6:13 pmLooks like Colin Powell is taking a page from Ron Paul’s playbook. Who knew that good ol’ CP was a Ron Paul fan?
June 10th, 2007 at 6:31 pmYes, seems as if more and more people are waking up to the fact that no PRO-WAR republican has any shot at winning the election. Ron Paul is creating an incredible following. Just do a search of Ron Paul on YouTube and you’ll see why.
June 10th, 2007 at 6:47 pmUncle Colin is just a little bit late. He could have done great things if he didn’t aspire to a right wing theocracy.
June 10th, 2007 at 6:57 pmWhats, he got a voice?
June 10th, 2007 at 7:18 pmBut, the general’s toooo late.
How come he had to come to the US from his new shelter in Dubai or wherever?
June 10th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThis guy is sucking up your petrol dollars at the pump as fast as he can.
This is not the man to believe.
We are debating a microcasm of a much larger issue. Politics are for the wolfs, then there are the sheep, and then the shepards (or bloggers). There will be a million more Powells, a million more bushs and a million more cheneys.. lets not forget about PNAC, the real puppet masters. Until we have a political system that enduces a level of fairness, the wolfs will continue to run politics.. take everything with a grain of salt and start living greener, times arent getting any easier anytime soon.. if you have a chld like myself, pray for them.
June 10th, 2007 at 7:30 pmPowell was not elected, he was appointed. Bush was his boss. It’s not his place to criticise his boss when he is still working for him. How many of you have an idiot for a boss? Now that he and other appointees are no longer in the administration they can say what they want. Half of you that sit back and point fingers don’t vote anyway so who cares.
June 10th, 2007 at 7:46 pmnow – he disagrees with Bush – although I commend that – 3000 Americans and many more thousands of iraqi’s have died – how do these guys sleep at night?
June 10th, 2007 at 7:56 pmWATCH THIS AND WEEP
Part One
http://www.livevideo.com/video/6F393F4DE41C4CF798CBB438E6378129/september-clues-part1.aspx
Part Two
http://www.livevideo.com/video/2CE2112F00F24F4182C73582D0F89949/september-clues-part2.aspx
Part Three
http://www.livevideo.com/video/E0E8DC73928D42D4A01CF664B22E16B5/september-clues-part3.aspx
Part Four
June 10th, 2007 at 8:18 pmhttp://www.livevideo.com/video/3F706266A8524D6AA3CCC4CFC2F0F257/september-clues-part4.aspx
How people were ardent supporters of the new war on terrorism?? The invasion to Afghanistan … then Iraq. Failure in the Afghan territory told the story as to what would happen next. Osama’s been forgotten as he and his organization were left a several hundred mile escape path east across into Pakistan, India, Indonesia, and wherever else.
BushCo may or may not have cared about history, but the majority of the American public surely did not. If anyone did, then the situation in Iraq would have been spelled out. Read some of the Baker-Hamilton report, read some history books and understand how Reagan supported this state against Iran, the impact of the League of Nations, etc.
Sure Powell took some serious hits against his character, but how many people ACTUALLY stand up for what is right in their day-to-day life? If people understood the Powell doctrine of engagement, then one must always have an exit plan. The war in Iraq has been sold on so many changing stories, that most Americans couldn’t even name 2 of them. Let’s see — WMDs, imminent threat, democracy, homebase for terrorists, how many more do we need. Yet, the media AND citizens dare not question the truth.
Let people speak out now, sure they should have spoken out sooner but that is a real moot point. From today moving forward is what it’s all about. How many people have been branded as un-American for supporting for the war. There is a price to pay in standing up. Look at the failures of New Orleans and the 90,000 sq. mi. Katrina-ravaged Gulf Coast and you will see the true heart of most Americans. The can-do attitude has all but gone and left this nation. Can we re-capture it is really what matters about all. Because without it, the war, global warming, and so many other problems facing of world will go undeterred.
June 10th, 2007 at 8:50 pmPowell has much to do yet to atone for his past sins, but I give him credit for speaking the truth about Abu Gharib. Thank you sir, but please do more to end this nightmare you helped create.
June 10th, 2007 at 9:05 pmSorry Colin, but the fact that you knowingly lied to lead the USA into an unjust war in Iraq taints anything you may say form here on in.
You’ve already helped caused the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of Iraqi citizens.
Your hands are as stained with blood as Bush’s.
You helped lead your fellow soldiers into an unjust war, based on lies and fabrications.
I don’t care about your belated attack of conscience. You’ve already proven your have no regard for the truth.
Go to Hell Colin, and once you get there, ask the Devil to let you restore the murdered innocent to life. If you can bring the thousands you helped laughter back from the dead, then perhaps I’ll give a damn what your lying mouth says next.
June 10th, 2007 at 9:19 pmI’ll never forget Powell’s ridiculous “case” made to the UN on pre-war intelligence. It looked stupid at the time with all of the aerial photos of trucks and buildings, but I kept thinking to myself, it’s Colin Powell!!!! He wouldn’t sit up there and just lie to the whole world and make fools of us all would he? Then the Bin Laden tape came out in which Bin Laden called Sadamm an “infidel” which Powell cited as evidence of an Iraq/Al Qada connection. This was more proof he was sucking down the Kool-Aid as fast as Cheney could give it to him and that he had in fact lost his mind. Powell deserves the most blame of all because he HAD credibility…and perhaps he could have stopped the war. It’s a good thing he is speaking out now, but he needs to go further in admitting his own culpability.
June 10th, 2007 at 10:21 pmIn 2003, then Secretary of State Colin Powell told his Bush team:
IF YOU BREAK IT, YOU OWN IT!!
The Bush team ignored his advice. The Bush team BROKE Iraq. The Bush team replaced the broken government with NOTHING. For four years, the streets of Iraq was a training ground for terrorists. And perhaps the newly trained terrorist were sent to other parts of the world to become the WORLD TERRORIST.
Sir Jeremy Greenstock said of Iraq:
From the “Telegraph.co.ukâ€
Sir Jeremy Greenstock’s Iraqi war comments
In the starkest language concerning the failure of the Government to anticipate the insurgency,
Sir Jeremy said: “In the days following the victory of 9 April [2003] no one, it seems to me, was instructed to put the security of Iraq first. To put law and order on the streets first. There was no police force. There was no constituted army except the victorious invaders.
“And there was no American general that I could … establish who was given the accountable responsibility to make sure that the first duty of any government – and we were the government – was to keep law and order on the streets. There was a vacuum from the beginning in which looters, saboteurs, the criminals, the insurgents moved very quickly.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/22/niraq22.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Bush team won and lost Iraq at the same time – in 2003. Saddam was removed. At the begining, the Shiia seemed willing to work with the Allies. But after living through the HELL of Baghdad, many no longer wanted the Allies in Baghdad. Many wanted the Bush team to go home.
Tens of thousands of Shiia recently marched in the streets. It was a demonstration of how they felt about the Bush team’s management of the civilian component of the Iraq War.
The Iraqi war “smacks” of management by civilians. In 2003, mainstream asked the Bush team if it needed more troops. No, was the answer. In 2007, with Iraq in CHAOS, the Bush team request more troops – calling it a surge. What was that for?
Give the insurgents four years to train, stockpile weapons and grow increasingly more competent in fighting the Allies, then SURGE them!!!!
If the Bush team had kept the Iraqi Shiia civilians happy, it is likely that the Bush team would have gotten its “FIRST” atta boy in all the PERFORMANCE field.
As it now stands, the Iraq war is another one of the Bush team’s “train wrecks”. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory seems to be easy for some.
IF YOU BREAK IRAQ, YOU OWN IRAQ. Do not break Iraq and then give the broken pieces to the Iraqi people to put together again – within much less time than the Bush team has been struggling.
And where does the BUCK STOP. No where near the Bush team.
Colin Powell’s wisdom was ignored in 2003. America is paying the price in 2007. The Iraqi war has turned into a war unlike any other America has fought in a long time. And starting with “yellow-cake” mistakes were made. But NOBODY is owning up to NOTHING.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:58 amWe have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open… Wooow, good boy, did you figure that out all by yourself? How about his one: we have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s democratic system by keeping an evil like Bush unimpeached. Or this one! We have shaken the belief that the world had in America’s “economic” system by the millions left in poverty and all the evidence of the destruction of our entire planet. Great country, if you’re not into reason, truth or decency.
June 11th, 2007 at 2:06 am# 111,
Colin Powell left the Bush team. And that is good.
By now you should be wondering why the Bush team seems to attract so much bad behavior. Did all that bad behavior come to the Bush team or was bad behavior picked up afterwards.
The old Congress got messed up. The Justice Department got messed up. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting got somewhat messed up. The World Bank got messed up. NASA got somewhat messed up. And Valerie Plame was outted by somebody, we know not who.
Is there a pattern here?
Do, you believe that everyone who spoke about the preparation for going to war had “permission from their boss to speak freely”?
June 11th, 2007 at 2:47 amJust want to say that I agree with Merlin, Lakat, and Zooey. I never bought in to Powell. He set off my bullsh** radar the first time I heard a soundbite. Dare I say, I thought he was a “Tom” from the get-go, long before I found out about his My Lai coverup and other background.
Yeah, in our effed up perverse world, it’s probably a good thing that he’s finally speaking out on this one issue, if it will reach even a small percentage of the Monarchy Party.
June 11th, 2007 at 5:25 amBut to my mind, he never had any courage or personal integrity. Someone mentioned that many (most?) people have a hard time standing up for their beliefs, that most people compromise themselves in a hundred different ways in order to “get along” in the world. That’s hard for me to understand, because I ain’t one of ‘em, and I’ve paid a dear price for it along the way. So I’m unable to cut Mr. Powell any slack whatsoever. As someone else said, I think he’s a war criminal in the same way as the rest of the regime still in power. He ought to be prosecuted along with the rest of them.
It’s about time Powell stood up and started swinging. Unfortunately, if he had done so years ago, we may not be in this mess now.
June 11th, 2007 at 8:05 amSummarized, Powell here talks about dialog with Iran, Syria
and everybody else in the region “not to solve a problem or crisis”,
and instead to “just to have dialogue with people who are involved
in this region in so many ways.”
Such as the vast oil reserves in Syria and Iran. Then it can be argued,
then it should be in the interest of Washington to
have more dialog with these countries.
The dialogs need be “not just for the purpose of
making a demand on them”.
This, is the only detail about these “dialogs” Powell discloses.
What could they possibly be discussing? Now that Washington made an
example out of Iraq, they can go spread democracy someplace else
now even without resorting to force.
Iraq was set out to be just that, an example of what happens to you
when you don’t submit to Washington’s demands. And as it happens, it was
a completely defenseless country.
It’s worth remembering recent relevant history (the recent US proposal to
install missile shields in eastern Europe) when reading this report, or
any report. Watching the top government officials being interviewed is
often interesting and revealing.
Well that’s the first part of this interview.
Powell is asked about Guantanamo, and in particular to explain
the statement in a letter to John McCain, “The world is beginning to doubt
the moral basis of our fight against terrorism.”
Powell’s reply,
“…So essentially we have shaken the belief that the world had in AmericaÂ’s justice system by keeping a place like Guantanamo open and creating things like the military commission. We donÂ’t need it, and itÂ’s causing us far more damage than any good we get for it. But remember what I started this discussion saying, donÂ’t let any of them go. Put them in a different system, a system that is experienced, that knows how to handle people like this.”
So essentially, we take those prisoners in Guantanamo, transfer them to the
US prison (which is already the most crowded in the world, with the majority
being US minorities), where they await trial, in this immoral American
justice system.
As an aside, What right do we have to even “handle people like this”?
Why is it us, who determine what happens to the Guantanamo Bay prisoners?
And did the world outside of the United States before Guantanamo was
exposed have a favorable view of the American justice system? It takes a
lot of delusional kool-aid to be able to ignore enough evidence of the
contrary to presuppose that.
You can tell by the way Powell looks nervous, sweating the whole way through. For all his years
in the military, and high level government duties, he looks mighty
uncomfortable in this video, perhaps at the prospect of getting called
on the lies he’s saying.
June 11th, 2007 at 8:07 amThe formatting of my post went haywire when I moved the text from notepad. If a moderator could fix the formatting, that would just be excellent. Thanks in advance.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:07 amNOw he speaks out against Gitmo. Unreal.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:45 am#116, Would it help your understanding if your BOSS was dead-set on something that you had serious reservations about. After your serious reservations were ignored, would you challenged your BOSS?
If you did you would likely wind up going to a different job – one way or another.
However if you wanted to stay in your job, you would likely compromise (perhaps your ethics and good judgement) – until you could find an alternative.
You won’t know what life was like working directly for Mr. Bush until he leaves office, preferrably by impeachment.
But if you worked for the Bush team and you felt his going to war was a HUGE mistake, then you would likely have not challenged the Bush team.
Because all of the Bush team’s major challenges have been “total wrecks” the Bush team may not be afraid of one more total wreck. Stay the course.
June 11th, 2007 at 9:50 amTHIS COMMENT IS SPOKEN WITH LOYALITY TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FROM A COMPITENT PROVEN LEADER…..I ADMIRE HIS DISERTATION OF THE TRUTH AND THE ABILITY TO MAKE IT KNOWN TO COMMON CITIZENS.
DISABLED MILITARY VETERAN
June 11th, 2007 at 9:54 amBut who’s ass was Colin kissing when he lied to the UN –a pack of deliberate lies, old satellite photos and plagiarized papers? When did he have his epiphany? Of course, he is right now. We needed LEADERSHIP then!!!
Of course, “detainees” should be in the Federal system. It would have been nice, though, if someone had raised a few voices when it might have made a difference.
In the meantime, live with the fact that American atrocities at GITMO, Eastern Europe, and in Iraq will inspire terrorists for generations. Bush may be remembered as the stupid ass who destroyed America.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:28 amPowell was the voice of reason in the Bush administration. In 2003, the Bush team tried to persuade the U.N., “Old Europe” and others to join in its journey to Iraq down the “yellow-cake” road.
Powell recommended and tried to get the United Nations to lead the Iraqi charge. The Bush team was ready to go. And as we now know – ill prepared for the job about to be attempted.
Powell was the rational diplomat. Powell tried to give the Bush team some sound advice but the Bush team did not listen.
On the Iraq war, Powell had to be between a rock and a hard place … right beside some members of the CIA. Some members of the CIA could not believe the yellow-cake story. Some members of the CIA wondered how Niger could smuggle out 500 tons of uranium oxide under the noses of the French who operated the facility.
It is likely that no other president, in the history of America, would have attempted the Iraq war. And today, right now, I would not bet on whether the Bush team would try it again. I can just imagine that Will Roger’s comment, “When you realize you’re in a hole – stop digging” would have trouble registering with the Bush team. The war in Iraq is not a virtual world war game.
While neo-cons are quickly willing to forgive and forget that the war started via fake documents; most of the world wants relief from the Bush team’s management.
Colin Powell’s management and judgement was a shinning light in an otherwise “out of the box” and strange management of the Bush team.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:29 am“He also called for an end to the military commission system the Bush administration has created to try Guantanamo detainees. “I would simply move them to the United States and put them into our federal legal system,†Powell said. He scoffed at criticism that the detainees would have access to lawyers and the writ of habeas corpus: “So what? Let them. Isn’t that what our system’s all about?—
Are you sure it was Colin Powell who said this? This sounds like it could have come from Paris Hilton!
Yeah, there’s a great idea – - turn the WOT into a lawyer-infested circus, complete with a clown car packed with liberal activist judges. No way do I want these people on home soil.
Uh, General Powell, we’re at WAR. Those “people†at Gitmo are terrorists. They didn’t hold up a 7-11; they are not common criminals who deserve due process.
Yes, Colin, our legal system is perfect for handling EPWs.
Our soldiers can collect casings on the battlefield to prove the enemy fired his guns.
Then we can dust every rifle for fingerprints
After every firefight we’ll put up yellow “crime scene” tape and have Lenny from Law and Order interrogate the local residents.
Then we’ll take soldiers out of the line to fly 7,000 miles back to CONUS to testify. After all, the accused has the right to confront his accuser.
Maddy Ginsberg & crew will make sure at least half the jury are Islamofascists since they’re to be tried by a jury of their peers.
Of course none of that would happen in the future. Any commander worth his salt would say that capturing prisoners results in too severe a degradation in fighting effectiveness. Therefore, we can no longer take prisoners. All these who are dying to heap rights onto these scum will face the law of unintended consequences. The people they’re trying to protect will be killed instead. 72 virgins with an EZ-Pass lane.
Why won’t this moron Powell just fade away like good soldiers do?
June 11th, 2007 at 11:32 am# 125,
seems to be saying those Guantanamo detainees are already guilty. It was said they are terrorist. They have not been proved, in a court of law, but this is WAR and it’s ok to declare them guilty until they are proved to be innocent.
And was it the Bush team, those creators of the yellow-cake affair, doing the describing of those Guantanamo detainers. Has the Bush team turned America’s “innocent until proved guilty” concept.
The Bush team was able to put its mark on Congress and the Justice Department but it never quite got its hold on the court system. Trying to get the Bush team’s personal lawyer on the Supreme court did not work as well as getting the Bush team’s personal lawyer into the Justice Department.
If the Bush team needs to wreck the rules of America for its PERFORMANCE to be effective, then America needs to get new management.
There was a hint of a problem with the Bush team’s court MANAGEMENT when the Bush team tried an early terrorist. This terrorist told the world he was a terrorist. And he gladly went to trial in a civilian court.
But if there is protocol anywhere, it’s in the United States court system. Some things are not allowed. You can’t just break rules in court and expect the OLD Congress to come galloping in to change the rules to match the behavior.
The Moussaoui trail should have, maybe, been a no-brainer because Mr. Moussaoui admitted to being a terrorist. But in America you are innocent until proved guilty. All the Bush team had to do was prove a terrorist was guilty (like he said he was).
How did that trial in a non-military court go?
Not too good.
The judge became irate over some kind of messing with witnesses. There was a comment that someone was trying to get all the witnesses on the same page. Almost lost that case.
Perhaps the civilian court did not understand that this is WAR. And the Bush team perhaps did not have time to be bothered with RULES.
So, on to military courts where a Commander-in-Chief should have some influence? And what a surprise. It turned out that the judicial is the judicial.
And frequently it looks like the JUDICIAL is the last barrier to the wrecking of America.
June 11th, 2007 at 12:38 pm# 125 said:
“Of course none of that would happen in the future. Any commander worth his salt would say that capturing prisoners results in too severe a degradation in fighting effectiveness. Therefore, we can no longer take prisoners. All these who are dying to heap rights onto these scum will face the law of unintended consequences. The people they’re trying to protect will be killed instead. 72 virgins with an EZ-Pass lane”.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It sounds like this blogger wants to go back to the bad old days – before the Geneva Convention. Would all POWS be automatic DOAs?
The world has “been there, done that”. When gunpowder reined supreme, that thinking would not necessarily mean the end of life – as we know it.
And that is not a solution to anything. It is the end of everything – what is, and what is to come. Up to now, most of the world has been trying to “just get along”.
I believe most of America and the world is happy that Iran did not apply either the thinking of this blogger or the thinking of that member of the Bush team who seemingly advocated “water torture” of terror detainees. Is America loosing its front runner status in dealing, in a humanitarian way, with its adversaries?
But with regard to taking prisoners, that was the strategy used against the native Tasmanians. Australia then had Tasmanian resources without the “overhead” of native Tasmanians. And the jury is still out on the consequencies for those acts of an extract of the Motherland.
Scientist, by and large, don’t want to seen anything go extinct.
June 11th, 2007 at 4:03 pmGitmo is a bad idea? We should close the opperation today? I am in shock- me and the millions of other Americans had no idea such was the urgency! We never suspected that Gitmo would cause scandal, jepoardize our standing upon the UN, make us scapgoat among dictators and furthermore, corrupt what little ethical backbone left. Never Colin, never would we have thought! Thank you for enlighting us to this fly-in-ointment, this smear among silk flaw.
Or perhaps I should congratulate you for finally coming reciving the ephifany (or was it emerging from the closet called “fear”) regarding the horrendous situation called Guantanamo Bay, which, if I recall, you supported along with the Rumsfield, Bush, Cheney and Condi? Or did they really just have you polishing their boots and saying “yesss massa, will do gitmo”? And now that you quit -or have been set free to your promised land- you can finally stand up and say “Oh, that’s a boo-boo. Today today today!.”
I mean really, Colin, you are a little behind…just a little. When millions have already gotten the clue that bad is as bad does, you are begining to learn the ABC’s of morality, justice and humanity. Please, since you are behind in the class called “Ethics 101″ don’t preach to the chior, just see the tutor at the end of class and he can help explain what a “war crime” exactly entails.
So please, dearest Colin-who-has-found-rightness, don’t get all holier than thou on all of us. We were the ones begging someone, just someone to be the change in that cabinet, and while you were there, while you had a chance, you ignored that little thing called “concience” and followed the banwagon of Machiavellien pragmatisim, only to eat crow and attempt to redeem yourself in minor press conferences which have already gotten us all to agree that Gitmo was an evil thing in the first place.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:48 pmRe # 121: Hey bezelt–we’ll have to agree to disagree about Powell. I take issue with so many of your points that it’s clear there is no middle ground to be found re our respective opinions of him, so I won’t waste precious space arguing. I do, however, need to ask you to reread my post vis a vis your desire to explain to me why I don’t get the BOSS thing. It is you who didn’t get what I was saying.
I have never been able to keep a day job for long because I can’t stand the hypocrisy and utter BS that most people (it would seem) “have to” put up with. I’m just not able to do it. And as I stated in my post, I have paid the price. I have had health insurance only once in my working life, and that was when I worked for a union. (And, this being America, even that coverage SUCKED.) I don’t have kids, so I didn’t have that responsibility that would require me to do something I loathed in order to get coverage or make a decent living.
I apologize to all for going off-topic here, but I think it’s important and goes to the heart of the matter: I truly believe that if more people would stand up for themselves, for what they believe in, for what they know in their gut is morally right, would not shrink in the face of corruption, would not bow down to the almighty dollar at any cost, a myriad of social problems would disappear, and we’d have a better country and a better world.
But alas, I am that most deadly combination—an idealist turned misanthrope.
Colin Powell is just another opportunist who traded any integrity he may have had for power–IMHO.
June 12th, 2007 at 4:23 amVery VERY disturbing. He wants to bring the prisoners to the US and put them in concentration camps that have been being built since the 80’s under a project called Rex 84. This will soften up the American people to have “terrorist” prisoners on American soil. All there needs to be then is another false flag attack and martial law will be declared. Then it won’t be just foreign nationals who are going to be in those camps.
June 12th, 2007 at 6:12 amIf King George can sign letters stating what He will and will not obey. Can I sign one saying I don’t have to pay taxes?
June 12th, 2007 at 7:43 amOrchidia perhaps I missed your meaning in your blog.
I basically took your comments to mean that one must always be true to one’s self. To Compromise was not something worthwhile.
If that was not your meaning, then I apologize.
But to emphasize on the “being true to oneself” idea, that is difficult to impossible if you are working for someone else…and hope to continue working in that environment. That would likely be called an organization. The very nature of “organization” means “compromise”.
And Mr. Powell, working for Mr. Bush, likely had to do things that did not always agree with his best judgement. And Iraq may have been one of the things that put his judgement at odds with the Decider’s judgement.
If the Decider had decided to follow Mr. Powell’s suggestion in 2003, Mr. Bush would have had to increase his troop allocation for his Iraq war, because Mr. Bush’s war effort would have had a Iraqi “civilian” component added to the military component. A military draft may have needed to be discussed.
While the military people, if they were free to speak, might have talked about additional troops, the civilian leadership would not want that discussed. The word “draft” might have come up.
The Iraq war would have fared much better if the Decider had wanted to become an admired and effective Decider. But being the developer of so many “TRAIN WRECKS” – one more train wreck was not going to matter that much.
Was Powell an opportunist? Not the way that word is typically perceived. Opportunists are generally thought of as watching for something of value approaching and then grabbing it, while dedication to country and duty is what most see in a military career. The military is not where you would typically search for opportunists.
The military has had to search for “opportunists” who were trying to avoid becoming an “opportunist” via draft dodging.
While opportunities do arise, everywhere, the military is not the kind of position that you would typically look to find opportunists.
June 12th, 2007 at 2:36 pmOkay bezelt, point taken about the word opportunist. And yes, I do understand compromise and have done plenty of that, too. I guess I’m just a Marxist/Socialist/Anarchist-leaning dreamer. ;-)
See you on another topic. . .
June 12th, 2007 at 7:33 pm# 130 does not like the idea of bringing those, accused of terrorism, onto American soil. Neither would most Americans. But how do you fix this mess that the Bush team created?
If Colin Powell had been the one to decide, there likely never would have been a collection of some 400 suspects locked up in Guantanamo for years without trial.
While locking up people for years without trial may be acceptable to neo-cons, it is not the American way. And if it had been up to Colin Powell, America might never have gone to war with Iraq, let alone filled up Guantanamo with “suspected” terrorist.
And what happened when, at the beginning, American civilian prosecutors looked at the the Bush team’s list of Guantanamo detainees with an eye toward prosecution?
There were HUNDREDS of cases those prosecutors threw out due to “LACK OF EVIDENCE”. They did not want to try the cases!!!! So, then it was on to the military courts to see if “LACK OF EVIDENCE” mattered there.
If the Bush team had listened to
(1) Colin Powell
(2) American protestors(”fascist sympathizers”)
(3) “OLD” Europe
(4) United Nations
The Bush team, likely would never have gotten American into the mess it is in.
It is “eyecrossing” trying to figure out who or what the Bush team listens to as it decides to take action. The Bush team does seem to come up with a consistent output; “TRAIN WRECK”.
June 13th, 2007 at 9:13 amBriseadh na Faire,
You will be blessed.
June 19th, 2007 at 6:32 pmPowell is feeling the heat of the truth. He’s sensing the incumbing ‘Nuremberg trial’ which will hit the neo-cons within a few years time. That is why he’s saying these things : in order to have a more lenient prison term (in Guantanamo or elsewhere) for the vicious deeds of the bush administration.
July 29th, 2007 at 10:47 pm