63 percent:
By on Jun 13th, 2007 at 11:10 am
63 percent:
Number of Americans — “including nearly two-thirds of Republicans — favor allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens if they pay fines, learn English and meet other requirements, a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found.”
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Push polling can come up with any result it desires, but majority of Americans want the Mexican border secured. Then we can decide what to do with illegal immigrants who are already inside the US.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:22 amIs there a poll about native americans favoring the allowance of illegal white protestants to become citizens if they paid fines and learned Navajo?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:24 amThat BS I can not believe 63 % of American want these Illigals to become American citizen.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:24 amThat’s fine, but the current bill is still a sham. It’s not tough enough. It only serves to protect corporate interests and democrat party interests. That’s how it was written.
Go for a more rational bill, like enforcement of current laws on the books, then come back.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:25 amPolls like these are based on the false assumption that Bush and his cronies give a rat’s a$$ about the will of the American people.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:26 amAm begining to not trust these friggin polls. Someone is F^%$#@* with the numbers!!
June 13th, 2007 at 11:28 am#4. Enforce the current laws on the books?? You must be joking, right? You are the same guy who argued that Scooter Libby should be PARDONED after being found guilty of lying to a grand jury and obstruction of justice.
I guess you just want CERTAIN LAWS ON THE BOOKS enforced?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:29 am.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:29 amIs there a poll about native americans favoring the allowance of illegal white protestants to become citizens if they paid fines and learned Navajo?
Comment by Juan C
thanks, Juan C….
June 13th, 2007 at 11:30 amconsidering my personal circumstances, I find that uproariously funny!
Why is it so hard to believe that 63% of Americans want to allow resolution to this issue? Do we have to be hard-assed pricks to people who are working to make a better life for their children?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:34 amThis isn’t a push poll.
But I agree that the borders should be secured.
Chimpy left our borders wide open after 9-11. He should be Chimpeached and removed from office just for that crime.
I support amnesty for illegal aliens, but no “touchback”. That touchback policy is idiotic.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:35 amIn what other country would citizens be treated to the spectacle of the president and the Senate focusing on the desires of 12 million to 20 million people who had crossed the nation’s borders illegally, committed document fraud, and in many cases identity theft, overstayed their visas and demanded, not asked, full forgiveness for their trespasses?
Illegal aliens and their advocates, both liberal and conservative, possess such an overwhelming sense of entitlement that they demand not only legal status, but also that the government leave the borders wide open so that other illegals could follow as well, while offering not so much as an “I’m sorry” or a “Thank you.”
ENOUGH! No amnesty for illegal immigrants.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:36 amA lie in print or poll is still a lie.. Most people have been fed propaganda to the point they do not understand the truth..Smuggled or entered illegal’s using false Social Security number’s are law breaker’s plane and simple…Legal immigrant’s and all native born citizen’s of any country are grosely affected adversly along with all servises stretched to the limet’s to support illegal’s that do not pay any taxes into the system’s they use..School’s, Health care clinic’s, welfare, food bank’s, police, all services are affected…Untill the border’s are secured, north and south, smugeling and human trafecting will continue and our econemy will be subject to total distruction..Legal immigration is far diffrent and should be embrased and allowed but illegal immigration has to stop…..Blessings
June 13th, 2007 at 11:36 amDo we have to be hard-assed pricks to people who are working to make a better life for their children?
Comment by Zooey
Yes, if they are not white.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:37 amComment by Oversight is a Bitch
Libby served his government well for 30 years and was an apparent fall guy. Pardoning is the given right of the President, regardless of the laws on the books in which Libby is guilty of. Illegal immigration is not. You’re trying to make a connection where one doesn’t exist.
You want a steady flow of criminal illegal immigrants flowing into the country, and the America people respond to that with a resounding no.
By the way, you couldn’t guess how many military veterans alone in my area write letters to the editor of my local paper about how we need to secure the border and enfore current laws on the books, including adding laws limiting immigration. I won’t take your word over theirs.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:37 amForcing illegals to pay hefty fines is rediculous, because the corporate CEOs that hire them should have to pay huge fines. The so-called immigration reform bill is a scam to exonerate big business firms from any culpability in hiring illegal migrants. The bill also does next to nothing to secure the Mexican border from further mass migration.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:38 amThinkprogress left out a crucial part of the poll:
An even greater number of Americans want the borders secured FIRST. Then we’ll talk about paying fines, prosecuting businesses for hiring illegals, etc.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:38 amENOUGH! No amnesty for illegal immigrants.
Comment by JT
Good luck trying to returning them back.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:39 amto return…
June 13th, 2007 at 11:39 amStupid Repuke Troll.
Our borders are unsecured because of CHIMPY.
This is your fault, you support the little monkey.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:39 amLive down around Douglas, do you CT-1?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:39 amSlam the employers with fines that put their asses out of business.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:40 amUse the money to send the undocumented immigrants back home.
And watch your economy implode.
Comment by Juan C
“Yes, if they are not white.”
Yes, you racist, rhetoric like yours being the exact reason why Americans are being conscious of the illegal invasion of our country. Third-world trashy ideas like yours share no place in our society.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:42 amJuan C’s comment was sarcastic, while true.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:44 amComment by heyzeus
Nope.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:44 amSo, who is not enforcing the current laws on the books?
The Federal Government.
And who runs the Federal Government?
Chimpy does.
This is ALL Chimpy’s fault. He left our borders wide open.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:44 amWe had a raid at a meat packing plant back in January.
The community is still reeling. Whole families were shipped to an INS detention facility (i.e. prison) in Texas.
Swift has sold the plant to a foreign company after taking a huge loss after the raid.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:45 amAn even greater number of Americans want the borders secured FIRST.
Considering that most illegals got here legally and then overstayed their visas, your point is … what, exactly?
That’s what I thought.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:46 am.
I would offer a compromise:
For every illegal who becomes a citizen there must be at least one neo-con Rethuglican deported to the home country of the illegal starting with King George the Dumb and working down.
Seems like a plan to me!
June 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amYes, if they are not white.
Comment by Juan C — June 13, 2007 @ 11:37 am
You got that right.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amComment by Tom3
My comment on post #4 rails on both the Democrats and Republics on the immigration issue. Corporate interests and democratic vote entitlement, that was the sham of this bill.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amBig raid in Portland a day or so ago as well, the majority of Del Monte employees had false Social Security numbers.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amTom3
Your post in #27 was bullsh!t. Communities aren’t “reeling” and whole families weren’t shipped to prison. They were sent home for violating the law. They knew coming here they were breaking the law. Using your reasoning, we could go to Canada, break the law, and expect their mercy when we get caught?
I feel sorry for your moral relativism…
June 13th, 2007 at 11:47 amYou want a steady flow of criminal illegal immigrants flowing into the country, and the America people respond to that with a resounding no.
Criminals? Even Tony Snow shot that one down. The fact is that where illegals are thickest on the ground, crime declines.
Of course, it only takes a couple of sensational stories to convince the trailer park that they’re all criminals….
June 13th, 2007 at 11:48 am.
Wow I expected to come into this thread and see
“Yeah pass the bill”
“They all deserve status now, screw the lebanese who have been waiting”
But was pleased to see I am not alone in that little 37% that doesn’t favor it.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:48 amI am really concerned about this bill for three reasons. First is that Bush is backing this because it sets up a class of indentured servants for his corporate donors. Second is that it penalizes immigrants and their families and does little to punish employers who have hired them in the past. Finally, that it will effect the jobs of industries here in San Diego that are already feeling the pressure of lower wages. Some jobs that might be adversely effected our construction, trucking, and other middle class jobs. I certainly have no problems with immigrants just looking for a better life, but like NAFTA was bad for California, this bill could be as well. I don’t know what do you think?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:48 amThe immigration bill does nothing to stop illegals from using American citizens Social Security numbers without their knowledge. The huge companies that hire them willingly use stolen S.S. numbers to pay them, so those companies must be fined bigtime, and the CEOs given prison terms too.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:49 amUsing your reasoning, we could go to Canada, break the law, and expect their mercy when we get caught?
I feel sorry for your moral relativism…
I feel sorry for your ignorance. You might want to check on what happened to those legally here and their children.
As for breaking the law, being here illegally still isn’t a criminal offense.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:49 am.
Yes, you racist, rhetoric like yours being the exact reason why Americans are being conscious of the illegal invasion of our country. Third-world trashy ideas like yours hare no place in our society.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
I’m guessing you won’t see the irony in calling Juan a racist, and then making a racist comment yourself, right?
You owe Juan an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:49 amI can sort of agree with one of the arguments that the other 37% have:
Illegal alliens are (by definition) people who ignore our laws. Why do you think they will pay $5000 to abide by these new ones?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:50 amBut was pleased to see I am not alone in that little 37% that doesn’t favor it.
Uh, you thought you might be alone in that 37%? That would mean that there are fewer than three whole people in your America.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:50 am.
I’m an Independent – I’m against it.
If they’re willing to break the law to get in here… what other laws are they willing to break?
Sure, it sounds impossible to ship everyone out of the country, but how possible is it to register them all and get them on the books? I think just as hard. How many will be willing to actually go out and do what they need to do to become citizens?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:51 amComment by Grand Moff Texan
The Republicans deported to that country would then make it into a thriving economy, to where the foreigners will want to come back and “reclaim their land.”
June 13th, 2007 at 11:52 amIf they’re willing to break the law to get in here… what other laws are they willing to break?
You’re right. After I got away with speeding for a couple of weeks, I decided to become a rapist.
That’s just common sense.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:52 am.
Good point Grand Moff Texan. The righties have forgotten that this is a civil offense and not a criminal one. Probably because the right wing radio they are brainwashed by doesn’t want them to know it.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:53 am…The Republicans deported to that country would then make it into a thriving economy
That would be a first.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:54 am.
Entering this country illegally is a felony. If we are going to prosecute citizens for felonies we must prosecute illegals as well. No selective punishment, we’ve had enough of the Paris Hilton style of law and order in this country.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:54 amMaybe, just maybe, we should arrest those that hire the illegal aliens. This would dry up the jobs by imprisoning those breaking the law by hiring those here illegally, and without the lure of jobs there would be far fewer crossing the border without permission. This makes just too much sense and all those republicans in jail would cause the world to be better so can’t have that.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:54 amThis “poll” is so frickin bogus.
63% of Americans, including TWO-THIRDS (66.7%) of Republicans?
Has anyone done the math?
If was are to believe this, then we have to believe that NON-Republicans are LESS in favor of legalizing immigrants than the Republicans. Two-thirds of Republicans is 66%. So we are to believe that Democrats and Independents were less supportive and brought the average DOWN?
That is absurd!
June 13th, 2007 at 11:55 amThe border must be secured first, then illegals can be processed to become American citizens. Those who are involved in gang activity or involved in criminal activities, like stealing cars, should be deported back to their homeland countries.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:56 amComment by Grand Moff Texan
Tony snow is standing up for his corporate-loving administration. I don’t take his word for anything.
“The fact is that where illegals are thickest on the ground, crime declines.”
I think I have two eyes and can see the vicious crimes these aliens commit in my own town, Thank you. Crime HAS been increasing in my town and law enforcement, I know, is feeling the burden. Your Happy Talk ™ doesn’t suffice here.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:56 amWho the fu*k are these 63%ers. They aren’t from Southern California I can tell you that. Nobody in SoCal wants the illegals to get anything more than a bus ticket back to Mexico. It is the one thing that CA Democrats and Republicans agree on.
Just say no to amnesty.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:57 amOK, CT, what’s the plan? Deport them all….cha-ching? Jail them all….CHA-CHING (That’s the sound of tax dollars down the drain).
June 13th, 2007 at 11:57 amI’m all for securing our border, and selective deportation for anyone who has committed SSAN fraud, ect. However, if they wanna stay, wanna pay, and become bona fide citizens, that’s cool as well. The money they pay can go back in the system, and then they start paying taxes.
The current bill is smoke and mirrors. It was never meant to happen, it just makes people think that the issue is being worked.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 13, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Like I said, anecdotal evidence fools the trailer park. People who think for a living can read crime statistics.
Your ignorance isn’t an argument, it’s just what makes you useful to your betters.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:58 am.
I find this argument to be very interesting.
The illegal problem is not something that snuck up overnight and bit us in the butt. Illegal aliens didn’t just start entering the US after 2001. They’ve been entering the US since I started school in the mid 70’s.
Does anyone question that we need to secure our borders?
Will the US support taxes to build a wall and man it?
If the answer to either question is “no” then you don’t really want to secure the border.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:58 amHold on a minute, before bashing one another for oposing view’s look at the real issue…Legal immigration and people abiding with the law’s is good..Ilegal immigration, stealing Social Security number’s and breaking the law is what is causing the problem’s along with open border’s..The only one’s benefiting are the people that exploit these worker’s, employer’s..Color or country has nothing to do with it, now I am seeing russian’s doeing the same thing.The rest of our country suffer’s from over use of our services by people who are not paying for any of these services…They steal the S.S number’s, write down huge exemption’s, no withholding and use all the services..I saw this happening back in the 80’s when I worked in Nevada..The cyotes would bring in bus load’s of illegals to work in the casinos, give them a S.S. number, declare huge exemption’s and untill they were caught and deported they worked for cheap….Stop the infighting please, learn, get educated and realize we that opose this madness just have a real life view of what is happening here….Blessings
June 13th, 2007 at 11:59 amEntering this country illegally is a felony.
But overstaying your visa, the most common way, is an administrative violation.
Of course, I could just shout INVASION and CRIMINALS and POROUS BORDERS and I could get a job on FOX News. But I never wanted to work in the entertainment industry.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pm.
“…Untill the border’s are secured, north and south…”
Comment by Sharon
Damn those Canadians w/ their delicious bacon, and… and their violent thugs they call “hockey players”, and… and… their ultra cheap softwood products… and… and… sombdoy give me some help here…
June 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pmContact your Representatives and Senators in DC to reject this phony immigration bill and to secure the Mexican border first, before doing anything else. Plus the hijacking of Social Security numbers must end.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pmAs for the company that had to shut down after they got raided, sucks to be them. They shouldn’t have hired a work force comprised of mainly illegals anyhow. No sympathy for them.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pmMaybe, just maybe, we should arrest those that hire the illegal aliens.
Not gonna happen. Big Money wants cheap labor, and they know they can scare the hell out of the GOP’s racist base while changing absolutely nothing.
Red state America is being used like a damned third world country.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:01 pm.
Comment by Zooey
‘Third-world’ is racist? Third-world is more like underdeveloped, not up-to-par on human rights, free speech, and the like. Whatever Constitutional lapses you may feel are going on in this country, it sure remains better than living in Cuba or Iraq or India.
You should spend your time singling out Juan C. He hates white people, wants to see them poor and gone. In his mind, they’ve probably been wealthy for “too long.” Talk about racist. And don’t claim that was a joke or sarcastic, either.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI hate to tell you guys this, but illegal aliens are not strictly from south of the border.
I know people who are here illegally from Canada (why, I’ll never know), and no one is fussing about THEM.
We have two borders, and no one is talking about building a fence between the US and Canada.
Just sayin’
June 13th, 2007 at 12:03 pmSure, let’s secure the borders by building a fence … built by illegal labor!
See? Big Money just wants cheap labor and they’ll keep the nativists’ heads spinning around like the Exorcist forever.
Not that it was hard to do….
June 13th, 2007 at 12:05 pm.
Zooey,
June 13th, 2007 at 12:05 pmI would think that the numbers from the north are pretty petty compared to those from the south. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen many Canucks picking strawberries out here in California…
#60 – CT
Don’t try to muddy the waters with a definition of “Third World.” This is your statement:
That’s not some off-hand comment about third world ideas, it’s a personal statement about Juan. That makes it racist.
Please don’t concern yourself about my relationship with Juan, CT. I’ve known Juan for over two years, and we correspond off board. I think I know him better than you do, and really don’t need your advice about my friendships. Thanks.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:09 pmI have YET figured out why this issue is so problematic…..
If I commit a crime, will I get off with just a slap on the wrist???? Not for a small crime, but a felony…. Oh say robbing a bank???
After all, I would be doing it to help support my family in these hard times so would that not qualify for no punishment????
I am all for imigration, but legally!!!!!
Stop playing this PC crap and guard our borders, for National Security reasons more than anything, and start enforcing the damn laws we already have.
Don’t give me this line “how do we round up 12 million illegals”….. We don’t have to…. If we enforce our LAWS, they will leave on their own……
Start heavily fining companies that hire illegals and throwing their Managers in jail, and I bet you will see this $hit stop real quick…….
All you need is a spot check of some of the most KNOWN companies that hire illegals, and when the work dries up from the enforcement, the illegals will leave.
If someone see’s illegals working for a home owner, they call the police and the police investigates…. If they are illegal, the home owner is warned ONE TIME, and the next time they are heavily fined, the third time they are jailed for 30 days.
This will stop this right now…..
If they want to come here, let them do it LEGALLY!!!!! My wife is Ukrainian, and she came here LEGALLY! They can too!
June 13th, 2007 at 12:09 pmSkilled workers are people who can become permanent residents because they are able to become economically established in Canada.
Your application to come to Canada as a skilled worker will be assessed on six selection factors and a point system. The six selection factors are:
Your education
Your abilities in English and/or French, Canada’s two official languages
Your experience
Your age
Whether you have arranged employment in Canada
Your adaptability
You must also show that you have enough money to support yourself and your dependants after you arrive in Canada, and pass a medical examination and security and criminal checks.
If they changed immigration laws to reflect Canada’s then I woul dbe for it. Although they probably wouldn’t have to learn French. As a country we can’t keep accepting people because where they are coming is worse. It’s an easy way out. Why try to cause change in your own country when you can just hop on over to the US where even if you arrive illegally you can have it easier. I want to say that US policies in C. and S. America hurt most countries and therefore the citizens and those policies should be changed too. But this turning a blind eye to the companies that use illegals and the people that use fake ID and are basically ghosts within our borders has to stop. I live in NYC and know many people that went through the process. It wasn’t easy and it shouldn’t be. If they pass this bill as is and many illegals don’t sign up because the fines are a burden or other excuses then will people say that they should be deported or will there be another chance for them?
June 13th, 2007 at 12:10 pmBefore you all get too excited about my statement of securing the border’s north and south, remember we in Washington state caught a bomber in 2000 that had sliped down from canada with bomb’s in his car….Blessings
June 13th, 2007 at 12:10 pmComment by Grand Moff Texan
“Like I said, anecdotal evidence fools the trailer park. People who think for a living can read crime statistics. ”
Again, I think I took the time to explain to you what’s really going on here. If you choose to wear blinders, just make sure you don’t put yourself in a position where others suffer for it. FBI statistics show that cities with illegal-alien populations is exploding, especially in the southwest. That’s why raids are heavily centered there.
“Your ignorance isn’t an argument, it’s just what makes you useful to your betters.”
Reiteration: Your junk is called Happy Talk ™ and is useless. You can’t wait for that amnesty for all of your illegals, huh? It’ll make those democrat votes flow, or “what makes you useful to your betters.”
In response to your other question, Democrats have a tendency to levy high taxes on business and therefore flatten production. Why do you think they hate Wal-Mart so much? You know, the store that provides well for middle-class families.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:10 pm.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:11 pmComment by Zooey
Well, if you know him pretty well, then it would naturally make it hard for you to confront him on his racist comments.
Happy Talk(tm)
June 13th, 2007 at 12:13 pmNothing is going to change until the root causes are addressed: the illegal immigrants want jobs and the U.S. supplies them. Only half in jest do I suggest that one way to address these root causes would be for the U.S. government to buy a bunch of land in Mexico, partner with U.S. companies in creating factories there, hire only native Mexicans as workers, and collect fees/taxes from the products and services delivered.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI would think that the numbers from the north are pretty petty compared to those from the south. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen many Canucks picking strawberries out here in California…
Comment by Craig Mack
If anything, the Canucks are probably wondering what can the do about their growing “American” problem.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:13 pmthese illegal’s arn’t going to pay jack shit for anything, but WE are.. they don’t even pay for things at walmart!!! i don’t beleave this poll.. it had to be taken in tijuana.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:13 pmZooey,
I would think that the numbers from the north are pretty petty compared to those from the south. Maybe I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen many Canucks picking strawberries out here in California…
Comment by Craig Mack
The Canadian illegals I know are not picking strawberries. They’re working office jobs — the kind Americans would want. I don’t know how they manage it legally.
The border stands wide open, my friend. There aren’t necessarily only Canadians crashing the border. The Millenium Bomber tried to come through the Canadian border, not Mexico.
I could be in Canada in two hours, and I wouldn’t be going through any checkpoint.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:14 pmZooey, SoCals problem isn’t a bunch of white people saying “Eh?” and drinking all of our beer.
We have a problem with people running into our cars and then driving off with nothing happening to them because “He’s illegal and there is nothing we can do anyways.”
We have a problem with not getting any quality customer service because nobody speaks english.
Hell, it has gotten to the point that English is becoming the second language here. Most places you call that have automatic messaging service ask you to press something if you speak English and for Spanish speakers, just stay on the line.
Our children aren’t getting the education they should because half if not more of the class room is non-English speaking Mexicans. SO, the teachers spends half of the time explaining what was just explained in English, in Spanish. That is wasting half of my childs learning time. Let her coem home half day everyday, because that is the education she is getting.
Now back to the non-Mexican illegals. The only person I personally know that was deported for being an illegal alien was a white girl from Russia. All the while the warehouse in the same building they arrested her in was filled with illegal Mexicans.
Now before I am labeled a racist, growing up in Southern California I had/have lots and lots of Mexican, but they are legal Mexicans who felt/feel the same way I do about the illegal Mexicans.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:14 pmSorry to have to bring this up again.
There are roughly 30,000 unserved felony warrants in San Diego. I believe the number is around 300,000 unserved felony warrants in California. How on earth do you intend to deport 12,000,000 people when you can’t get the funding (taxes) to hire enough Sheriffs to serve warrants to felons. Let’s just forget that ridiculous right wing idiocy.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:14 pmi meant believe .
June 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pmWell if pigs aren’t flying through the snows of Hell !!
I never thought I would see the day that
June 13th, 2007 at 12:17 pm1. I actually agreee with my Texas senators on an issue.
2. ThinkProgress readers would be so strongly against a Democratic bill.
Pardoning is the given right of the President, regardless of the laws on the books in which Libby is guilty of. Illegal immigration is not. –Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
Enforce the current laws on the books?? Question: How is a law “enforced” if the criminal is found guilty then allowed to go free without penalty and with a clean record? Answer: it’s not.
In your world, I could “enforce” all immigration laws by providing a pardon to all illegal immigrants. Maybe we could call it “amnesty.”
June 13th, 2007 at 12:18 pmProgressives, Get Ready For Civil War II.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:18 pmSpudge,
I’m not saying it’s not a problem. I’m saying it’s not just a Mexican problem. The solution lies somewhere between what we’re doing, and the hard-line postion.
I’m not in favor of people coming here illegally, I just don’t think it’s the biggest problem we have right now.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:19 pmWell, if you know him pretty well, then it would naturally make it hard for you to confront him on his racist comments.
Happy Talk(tm)
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
No, it wouldn’t. It would make it easier.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:20 pmSorry to have to bring this up again.
There are roughly 30,000 unserved felony warrants in San Diego. I believe the number is around 300,000 unserved felony warrants in California. How on earth do you intend to deport 12,000,000 people when you can’t get the funding (taxes) to hire enough Sheriffs to serve warrants to felons. Let’s just forget that ridiculous right wing idiocy.
Comment by ben — June 13, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
You can start by not letting the illegals back out onto the streets when they are released from jail. That is a start. We know they broke the law and we know they are illegal and they are put back on the street.
You are never going to deport all 12 million. That is why people like to use that number, because it is so big that people will go “Dee dee dee, your right, there is nothing we can do.
Well, I live here and there are lots of ways that the problem can be solved, but people think it will be too expensive.
Here’s a start. The state of CA buys me a crappy old bus. Everyday I drive to Orange County Jail. Load the illegals that are being released into the back of the bus and I haul them down to Mexico and drop them off. 45 minutes everyday and I could easily get rid of 50. That 350 a week, just by myself.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:21 pmSo how long do I get ta keep ‘em under indentured servitude???????
June 13th, 2007 at 12:25 pmFBI statistics show that cities with illegal-alien populations is exploding, especially in the southwest. That’s why raids are heavily centered there.
Whole states aren’t occupied by illegals, dumbass, but you are cute when you can pretend you can think. Gerrymander statistics, much, or did someone smarter than you do it for you?
Corridors and zones of Texas and other southwestern states known to be illegal hangouts, including towns known to be depots, actually have lower crime rates than the surrounding, indigenous areas. I travel all over this state and have seen it myself. I’ve also seen it in public education.
That’s a fact, which is why you can’t deal with it.
I return you to the AM Radio morons who are just using your dumb ass.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:25 pm.
[]
June 13th, 2007 at 12:26 pmNothing is going to change until the root causes are addressed: the illegal immigrants want jobs and the U.S. supplies them.
Don’t forget American agricultural subsidies that drove Mexican agriculture into the toilet.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:27 pm.
I just don’t think it’s the biggest problem we have right now.
Comment by Zooey — June 13, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
You outta come to SoCal. You wll change your toon. I feel that the illegal alien problem is just as big as Iraq. I live with the problem everyday. I can’t even imagine living closer to the border, like San Diego.
Let me tell you a story.
Do you remember “A day without immigrants” The whole legal and illeagl immigrants stay at home and show us Americans that we need the illegals. Well, I haven’t had a day that stress free in ages. The freeways were clear of all of the illegals, so traffic actually moved for a change instead of having all of the immigrants driving 5 MPH on the freeway. I was able to go to a restraunt, put in my order and have it come back correct. I could go to a store and ask somebody for help and they could not just understand me, but they could help me.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:27 pmSpudge_Boy –
I live in SD and I would have to say…yes you are a racist. Just kidding.
I don’t know where you live in SoCal. However, I would venture to guess that our school system issues (in SD) are related not as much to ethnicity of the students, but to budget issues and, to be harsh, uninvolved parents. First off their are ESL programs for kids that speak other languages. Students that learn multiple languages tend to be better off in the future. I am hoping to put my 2 year old in a school down the street that teaches in Spanish, German, and English. The concept is called immersion. Another problem is uninvolved parents. Part of that stems from the need to work long hours for lower incomes. While it is easy to simplify problems in todays complex world by saying roughly “it’s the Mexicans fault”. I don’t think that helps us find a true solution. But at least we are talking about it.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:28 pmYour Happy Talk ™ doesn’t suffice here.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 13, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Say, CT.
How’d ya get the (TM) like that?
June 13th, 2007 at 12:28 pmIn response to your other question, Democrats have a tendency to levy high taxes on business and therefore flatten production. Why do you think they hate Wal-Mart so much? You know, the store that provides well for middle-class families.
No, I don’t know a Wal-Mart that provides so well for middle-class families and neither do you. Their labor history is a disaster, not to mention their impact on middle-class families not employed by them. Democrats hate Wal-Mart because we hate parasites.
As for Democrats, check out job-creation for the last 100 years under Democrats and Republicans. It’s no contest. Republicans don’t give a shit about people who work for a living which is why they’ve transferred the tax burden onto their backs. The New Deal created middle-class America as we know it, and Republicans have been at war with it for twenty years.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:30 pm.
“Enforce the current laws on the books?? Question: How is a law “enforced†if the criminal is found guilty then allowed to go free without penalty and with a clean record? Answer: it’s not.”
Pardoning is a constitutional right, Illegal immigration is not.
In your world, I could “enforce†all immigration laws by providing a pardon to all illegal immigrants. Maybe we could call it “amnesty.â€
Amnesty is not a constitutional entitlement. Amnesty would hurt the values of America though eliminating the rigorous process which it takes to earn citizenship.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:31 pmWhile it is easy to simplify problems in todays complex world by saying roughly “it’s the Mexicans faultâ€. I don’t think that helps us find a true solution. But at least we are talking about it.
Comment by ben — June 13, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
How about if I say it like this:
In my area of the universe, it IS the illegal Mexicans who are the problem.
I am sure there are some illegal Europeans and Asians, but OVERALL the problem we have in my area is due to the illegal Mexicans.
My kid isn’t having half of her school day taken up by Mandirin or French speaking kids.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:33 pmComment by Mr. President
Simply put tm in parentheses and space it away from the word, otherwise it won’t “exponentiate.”
Happy Talk(tm)
Happy Talk ™
June 13th, 2007 at 12:34 pmSpudge_Boy –
I heard about how they are released until their arraignment that then never happens. That does seem a bit silly. I am all in favor of your bus idea. Now good luck finding the money in SoCal to get it done. How about fines from the employers hire the immigrants. Oh yeah GWB doesn’t enforce those laws except for photo-ops like yesterday in Oregon.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:36 pmHappy Talk ™
June 13th, 2007 at 12:39 pmYESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™
June 13th, 2007 at 12:40 pmThanks ™ CT ™
June 13th, 2007 at 12:40 pmAfter 80% of the Democrats voted for the immigration bill, and 80% of the Republicans voted against it, it’s useful to review the history of Republicans’ poor economic record, if only because there’s so much hagiography out there muddying the issue. Immigration is just one more way the elites want to screw working people in this country, thinking they can keep people distracted with phony religious issues and racism.
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June 13th, 2007 at 12:41 pm.
Comment by Grand Moff Texan
Wal-mart does provides variety to middle-class families. Their prices are competitive and well. “Neither do I?” You seem quite intent on defining the experiences of other people though the prism of political speak. Competition is a b!tch for democrats because they want high prices for middle-class families. I’m glad that Walmart is dragging all of them though the sand.
Long live Wal-mart! I don’t care how life is for you in Texas. Since I live in Virginia, I know a healthy economy is run by Republicans. They address all the pressing issues that you refuse to consider.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:41 pm“Now good luck finding the money in SoCal to get it done. How about fines from the employers hire the immigrants.”
You just turned my good idea into a great self-paying service.
Now, to start thinking like a Republican. How can I screw the American taxpayers out of lots of money and generate massive profits while doing a prostitute on the side of my 5th wife?
June 13th, 2007 at 12:42 pmComment by Mr. President
Anytime, good friend!
June 13th, 2007 at 12:42 pmCompTROLLER V-1,
“Pardoning is a constitutional right, Illegal immigration is not.”
So by this logic then, you would have no problem if the President decided to pardon all ‘illegal immigrants’?
June 13th, 2007 at 12:42 pm“Wal-mart does provides variety to middle-class families.”
The fu*k they do, they sell cheap sh!t at cheap prices. They won’t sell my companies good products, they only sell our crap products.
Get a grip on reality. Nobody is gong to believe that Wal-Mart is good for anything but selling cheap crap and screwing their employees.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:45 pm:P
June 13th, 2007 at 12:45 pmNow Senator Lott and others want the immigrants to be sent home. Bring back the Good Old Days of black/white signs and get those African Americans back in the fields. Repeal the Civil Rights Bill and we wont need to deal with this mess. As we see the White House is doing it’s part by hiring only loyal Republicans and those few minorities that can follow orders. The Justice System is being brought down by falsely charging non-Republicans so we can have only a Republican party as appointing loyal Judges will will follow the GOP rule of law. When 9/11 attack happen Americans were together because color didn’t matter, once that was over it’s back to racism. Mitt has to stop himself from saying Tar Baby and Rudy has to hide his Mob friends and his cross dressing from the public. McCain was given favors to follow the crimes orders and now it’s time to call those favors in. That hug with Bush was proof. Fred has a TV script writer to make himself sound like a President. All these Candidates need the one man who can steal an election twice KARL ROVE. Use God’s name and fix voting machines and don’t let minorities votes and then Republicans can keep the White House and get the branches of government back. Look the American people fell for the lies twice now that’s saying a lot.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:46 pmAmnesty is not a constitutional entitlement. Amnesty would hurt the values of America though eliminating the rigorous process which it takes to earn citizenship. — Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
Crump’s Bro. nailed it: I didn’t say I could enforce the laws by granting amnesty, I said I could pardon the illegal immigrants and *call it* amnesty. That would be using my constitutional entitlement (as President).
June 13th, 2007 at 12:48 pmI get it! Let’s fire all of the people in our goverment and put them into prison for their illegal acts and then give the illegal aliens a nice free pass. What is it about the word “ILLEGAL” that we are missing here. These illegal’s arn’t going to pay jack shit for anything, but WE are..
June 13th, 2007 at 12:51 pm“Whole states aren’t occupied by illegals, dumbass, but you are cute when you can pretend you can think. Gerrymander statistics, much, or did someone smarter than you do it for you?”
Hmmm. I don’t believe I said whole states. You wouldn’t even know how to identify “gerrymandered” anything. This comes from someone who seeks to attack people for what they see with their own two eyes. You take your own perspective a little two far.
Corridors and zones of Texas and other southwestern states known to be illegal hangouts, including towns known to be depots, actually have lower crime rates than the surrounding, indigenous areas. I travel all over this state and have seen it myself. I’ve also seen it in public education.
I’m glad you can determine the actual crime outliers of this country through tourism. You believe that beats town/state/federal statistics, where the studies are more ranging?
“That’s a fact, which is why you can’t deal with it. ”
Facts are what I see with my own two eyes, not how you politically mirror the predicament this country faces.
“I return you to the AM Radio morons who are just using your dumb ass.”
Happy Talk ™
June 13th, 2007 at 12:51 pmComment by Crump’s Brother
If the president wanted to Pardon all illegals, then sure, that’s his constitutional right. It would surely be more devastating to do so then it would Libby, but that’s his right.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:54 pmComment by Spudge_Boy
Wal-mart may not be the greatest store in your mind, and their internal practices can be controversial, but they are a godsend to cash-strapped middle-class families. If they went out of business it would drive prices through the roof. I mean, c’mon, they’ve already done consumers one-up in the grocery sector. I know other bigger brand grocers in my area are reeling and pricing their food more competitively. I would never wish for Wal-mart to go out of business.
June 13th, 2007 at 12:57 pm-refresh-
June 13th, 2007 at 1:06 pmEveryone here is forgetting an important matter: If you try and enforce our laws, then the ACLU will sue the hell out of you. Also, the Puerto Rican Defense fund. (i probably screwed that orginazations name up bad)
June 13th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThose are the ones who say you can’t inquire about legal status, no matter what the offending party is doing because “It’s profiling”! I agree with Spudge that illegals HEAVILY contribute to legal problems in Socal. (especially MS 13 activities) It’s not rocket science either. I can tell you of 3 or 4 places RIGHT NOW that are loaded with them, but no one wants to hear it. People wanna be PC so as no to offend, but something ahs to give in order to address this problem.
“Wal-mart may not be the greatest store in your mind, and their internal practices can be controversial, but they are a godsend to cash-strapped middle-class families.”
You are giving a symptom as the cure for the problem. THe reason those families are strapped for cash is because of stores like Wal-Mart. You just don’t get it. I would also point out that the other reason for the cash strapped middle class families is because of our fu*ked up president.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:18 pmSpudge Boy:
June 13th, 2007 at 1:18 pmYou’re writing as if there was a time when things were fine, and then these illegal immigrants came along and ruined it.
When did they start coming? When did they show up to spoil the party?
The answer is they’ve always been there.
Mexicans have been coming into California since California was a part of Mexico.
There’s been a large Spanish-speaking segment of the populace since the 18th century. Since before there was an English speaking presence.
Illegal immigration is a problem. Poor people flooding into an area is always a problem.
But to complain about everybody not knowing English while living in cities named San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Sacramento?
test
June 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pm-refreshment-
June 13th, 2007 at 1:21 pmMy other post was scrubed so will re do, sort of…We are addressing this huge problem with a devided thinking process…First off, no infighting please..Next it is an illegal immigration problem that I have been addressing..I am not oposed to legal immigration at all…We are being deluged with illegal’s in my state that are using stolen S.S. #’s report huge exemption’s, pay no taxes and drain all our service’s to the breaking point..It is nearly impossible for me to use our local clinic to adress my health issues because of the illegal’s that now use the clinic…Long line’s of pregnant women that speak no english and have free welfare card’s along with their unemployed husband’s ( they say) fill up the waiting area..
The arrest record’s for our county are swelling, jail’s full, school enrollment beyond capacity, all services are stretched to the breaking point…We must secure our border’s first and stabalize our econemy…
Walmart is the one worst employer of our century, buying import’s cheap, paying low wages and selling crap to our country for their own bulging bank account’s…Blessings
June 13th, 2007 at 1:27 pmWhere are all the comments? It says 118 and there is only 3.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:39 pmIMMIGRATION – The only cure to the problem is FINE THE EMPLOYERS.
WALMART – Is by far the worst thing to happen to many small towns. Buys from China and not America, which causes American factories to shutdown, then they force small stores in town to be closed. Then they hire at min wage, with little to no benifits, then when someone gets ahead they make them part time so it’s a lose lose for America.
IGNORE THE TROLLS – Debate good, Trolls bad
June 13th, 2007 at 1:43 pmWhile your energy and attention is diverted to an issue that arouses emotional responses (around legislation designed to protect Corporate criminals’ exploitation of the desperate, and to feed the unquenchable greed of the super-wealthy elite), your Constitutionally-guaranteed Rights as American citizens are being stolen under the guise of protecting the Middle Class, Working Class, and Poor in the event of ANY RUSE the PRESIDENT CAN SELL AS A THREAT to our NATIONAL SECURITY!
While American Citizens have been emotionally- distracted, President Bush quietly signed 2 PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVES on May 9, 2007 that will allow ONE PERSON, THE PRESIDENT, to DECIDE if there is a threat and to
DISBAND CONGRESS, SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY and BUSINESSES, DECLARE MARTIAL LAW and TAKE AWAY YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!
NSPD#51 and HSPD#20 essentially CREATE A DICTATORSHIP, based on THE DECIDER’S JUDGMENT ALONE.
The Media ignores it. Most people are unaware of these Directives. The 30 day period for Congress to stop it ended June 9. (Was it timed to coincide with Congressional Recess for Memorial Day?) The White House refuses to answer any questions about these Directives.
Alarm should be bi-partisan and IS, among those who know of the threat.
For example, Conservative activist, Jerome Corsi, who voted for Bush in the past, was one of the first to discuss the danger of these ‘National Security’ (#51) and ‘Homeland Security’ (#20) Presidential Directives.
You can check out: http://www.worldnetdaily.com
Don’t continue to be baited with distractions. Please, Wake Up! For the sake of our Nation, our Constitution, our Democracy.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:52 pmSpudge Boy:
You’re writing as if there was a time when things were fine, and then these illegal immigrants came along and ruined it.
When did they start coming? When did they show up to spoil the party?
That would be 1986 when Reagan gave them amnesty. That is when the sh!t hit the fan. Sorry, there is a point in time that is when it got really bad. That is why I can’t find one Southern Californian that wants amnesty for the illegal aliens.
I have said it before, but it bares repeating. This is the one issue that Democrats and Republicans in SoCal all agree on. It is an amazing thing. When talking about immigration, everybody I knwo left, rigth and center in SoCal feels the same.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:56 pmGrand Moff Texas…hilarious and spot on in all your comments.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:09 pmAlthough I am living here in Mexico and empathize a lot more with poor mexican people risking their lives to cross the desert, to be treated like animals and being stripped of all their labor rights (at best) than with US middle class obese workers, I think US should do something about immigration that stays in a middle line between absolute pardon and deportation fantasies.
CT, it is good to see you have defined me without exchanging posts more than 5 times. Keep generalizing, it will narrow your vision even more.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:15 pmSpudge Boy, I know this is silly, but it is you the Illegal Alien in California in some way.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:16 pmI apologize, Juan.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pmYou owe Juan an apology, but I’m not holding my breath.
Comment by Zooey — June 13, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Well Juan owes me one, I am white. I won’t hold my breath though.
I suppose a whole list of reasons why his wasn’t offensive but comps was is enroute.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:40 pmSpudge_Boy –
I think we agree in SoCal that it is a bigger problem then the rest of the country gives it credit. We also agree that there is very little employer enforcement. I think we agree that it has at least the potential to hurt some middle class jobs if not managed properly. I think we differ on how to handle the problem. But I have to give you credit for debating the subject with us.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:41 pmForgot to mention the most important item. I think we agree that if managed poorly this could seriously harm millions human beings, real people trying to make an honest living and support families. We should never forget who we are talking about while we work to resolve our political and economic problems.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:45 pmwalmart cheated me out of 5 hours of pay two pay periods ago. I brought it up to three different assistant managers who said that they will look into it. Now, when I ask again, they say it’s too late to look into it. I don’t know what to do now. I can’t hire a lawyer over 30 dollars.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:46 pmKeep generalizing
Just like “with US middle class obese workers”?
June 13th, 2007 at 2:48 pmI find the 63% stat to be incredible. I campaigned for Kerry/Edwards so I’m hardly on the rightwing fringe. I am opposed to amnesty and believe strongly in the rule of law. Immigration is fine and necessary, when done legally. Corporations should be hammered. There is no need for mass deportation. Just cut off the jobs and the situation will resolve itself.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:48 pmI think it’s a 5 step process
1) Lock down the borders (Yes both) and all international airports properly.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:54 pm2) Begin throwing employers in jail for tax evasion (Like Al Capone) for hiring illegal workers
3) If someone is illegal and caught for a crime, give them a trial and when sentencing is over, they go home.
4) If an Illegal allien goes for medical care, fix them up and then send them home.
5) Do not accept applications for citizenship from U.S. Addresses unless the person has a Valid Visa.
Spudge Boy, I know this is silly, but it is you the Illegal Alien in California in some way.
Comment by Juan C — June 13, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
Juan C,
I will be the first person to say that the white man took this land form the brown man, as I am partially brown myself (Native-American), but my Scottish great great grand father came here legally and legally married said native and produced a family that spawned me soemtime down the line.
But, I did not jump over a fence and swim across a river, then steal somebodies SSN to find a job.
I know what you are getting at, but it really isn’t the same thing
June 13th, 2007 at 3:07 pmTundra,
There doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with your 5 steps to me.
June 13th, 2007 at 3:08 pmHmmm…
June 13th, 2007 at 3:20 pmComment by bob
Wal-Mart has some egregious internal practices that need to be cleaned up, for sure. I apologize that you have to deal with this, but I simply don’t advocate putting them out of business.No doubt, however, there are things to be angry about. I hope your back wages are paid to you. I think you can file a complaint with the Labor Department w/o having to hire a lawyer (keep in mind, I don’t have the specifics) and their lawyers can hopefully settle the dispute in any number of ways should the case have merit.
June 13th, 2007 at 3:46 pmI apologize, Juan.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
Thank you for that. Im from a 3rd World country, so, your comment didnt hurt.
But, I did not jump over a fence and swim across a river, then steal somebodies SSN to find a job.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
I agree. I am not advocating that. But, just imagine what you would do if your kids are starving. Imagine, please.
June 13th, 2007 at 4:32 pm#139 – Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 13, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
I never mentioned I was angry. Cheated was the way I put it. If you challenge these people on what is the right to do, they only make things worse for you. File a complaint with the state? Yah, okay. It’s better to leave them cheat you…
June 13th, 2007 at 6:06 pmWhere did this come from? The Rasmussen poll just showed only 23% of Americans approve the immigration bill. Three weeks ago CBS ran a poll that showed even 56% of Democrats oppose the immigration bill (I’m not going to call it reforem–it’s 1986 deja vu).
You guys are getting as bad as the MSM.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pmJuan C: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you Mexicans hate Americans so much (obese middle class [do I hear lazy?] Americans) then why do you come here? Why don’t you sneak into Costa Rica or Belize or Nicaragua or Sweden? Mexican seem to think because they’ve listened to a lot of propaganda about how fat and lazy Americans are it gives them the right to steal from us.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pmJuan C: and by the way, who’s fault is it that people are starving in Mexico? The U. S. loaned the Mexican government billions to pay debt and conviced other countries to forgive Mexican debt so your country wouldn’t go bankrupt, but the government absconded the money and is still in poverty, except for the oligarchs who rule.
The U. S. started practicing birth control in the 1960s after the hippies predicted overpopulation without birth control. Third world countries refused to practice birth control. Now you have way too many people. That is not the fault of the U. S.
When is someone going to start questioning the La Raza rhetoric? The U.S. and Mexico both had revolutions to gain democratic governments but the people of Mexico got an oligarchy instead. That is unfortunate, but not the fault of the U. S.
Also, Mexico doublecrossed the U. S. in WWI and agreed to let the Kaiser send troops into the U. S. through Mexico for payments, so I don’t want to hear about the Mexican War in 1848. You’ve had your revenge.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:23 pmhttp://www.iowavoice.com/2007/06/13/well-somebodys-lying/
Well, Somebody’s Lying
Rasmussen, and they say that:
Just 20% of American voters want Congress to try and pass the immigration reform bill that failed in the Senate last week. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 51% would like their legislators to “take smaller steps towards reform†while 16% believe they should wait until next year.
June 13th, 2007 at 10:15 pm