Think Progress

2007: Hottest year ever thus far.

By Nico on Jun 14th, 2007 at 7:10 pm

2007: Hottest year ever thus far.»

“The National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) reported today that ‘the global surface temperature for the combined January-May period tied with 1998″ as the warmest January-May ever recorded.

Climate Progress has much more.

Comments
68

68 Responses to “2007: Hottest year ever thus far.”

Fed the Fcuk Up! Says:

Hey, I heard Paris Hilton just did something in jail. Like eat or something. Shocking I tell you, just shocking.

Okay, now what were we talking about?
June 14th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Flaco Says:

Al the Goracle save us.
June 14th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Namtillaku Says:

Comment by Flaco â€” June 14, 2007 @ 8:08 pm

I thought homosexual issues were your strong point? Huh. Well, at least you get this one right.
June 14th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
freedomrings Says:

So what can we do about it and even if we did do something what would that do?
June 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
dlet Says:

So what can we do about it and even if we did do something what would that do?
Comment by freedomrings

I am sure the Mayans and the people on Easter Island got stuck in the same rut question as that one.
June 14th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Climate Change Says:

You’re all gonna DIE!! Keep spewing that CO2 into the air. Keep it up. Have children and then happily tell them that they have maybe 30 years max. Then the great die off happens. Tell your children you don’t care about their future, but only your SUV you have parked outside. Tell them they will suffer. Tell them you just don’t care. Tell them they’re gonna DIE!!
June 14th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
beefeater Says:

So what can we do about it and even if we did do something what would that do?

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 14, 2007 @ 8:20 pm

Go to “Climate Progress” and buy Joe Romm’s new book, Hell and High Water”, because this clown needs the money. While your there please post some comments because he hasnâ€™t had more than 4 or 5 in the last month. Then ask him how the earth came out of the last ice age without human intervention! If you are really gullible you could buy some of the Gorecles “carbon (scam) offsets” from his little company. Al needs the money too, costs a lot to heat and cool that mansion.
June 14th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
dixie blood Says:

Why don’t we make this the hottest year on record for the completely useless American known ‘roun’ here as GW Botch!!!

Let’s get an IMEACHMENT goin’!!!!

I am tired of waitin’ ‘roun’ for someone to get a solution underway. We need something way better than this Democratric leadership(? ha,ha)!!
June 14th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
zappatero Says:

AP June 30, 2007 Washington, DC - President Bush’s budget for fiscal year 2008 zero’d out funds for the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). NCDC tracks weather patterns across the world. White House spokesman Tony Snow said those funds will be used to buy Bermuda shorts for all governmental employees.
June 14th, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Mr. President Says:

OK, so we’re now tied with 1998… WHO CARES?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 14th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Juan C Says:

This is funny. Trolls trying to talk about science.
June 14th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Smack Says:

The heat coming mainly from the big bright thing in the sky, not carbon dioxide.

But hey, If you want to pay a breathing tax, go ahead and buy that globalist clap-trap.

Is there Climate Change? Is there pollution? Do Humans contribute to it? I think so, but I also know a scam when I see it, and Al Gore is no hero.

But hey, a lot of people thought this Iraq War thing was a good idea too. So believe whatever you want.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Paid Oil Company shill Says:

CO2 is not a polutant. You guys aren’t getting warmer. Those glaciers melting are just following the normal course of nature. Please, stop talking about Climate Change! Nothing is happening! Hey, Look over there!!
June 14th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
libssuck Says:

Oh no, the sky is falling what shall we ever do..
June 14th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Vinnie Says:

It is so interesting that the trolls come out in force on any article on Global Warming. Despite the seriousness of the issue here’s how the trolls respond:

–Flaco - Makes a joke

–freedomrings - Apathy

–beefeater - Attack Gore and others as money grubbers (While Exxon is much more interested in social responsibility than profits).

–Mr. President - Apathy

–Smack - Accuse Gore of being a scam artist

The bottom line is that global warming is a VERY serious issue that could greatly affect the type of world we leave for the next generation. And these guys are more interested in joking, doing nothing or just attacking Gore and like-minded people. Why don’t you leave the problem solving to those of us that have the guts to acknowledge a problem when we see one.

I’ve got an idea for a debate. I’ll provide a list of the scientific organizations that hold the position that Global Warming is a serious issue that is being caused by man-made carbon emissions. The trolls can provide a list of scientific organizations that take an opposing view. Below is my list:

–Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)

–Joint science academiesâ€™ statement 2005

–American Meteorological Society

–American Geophysical Union

–American Institute of Physics

–The American Astronomical Society

–American Association for the Advancement of Science

–Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London

–Geological Society of America

–American Association of State Climatologists

–Australian Medical Association

–American Chemical Society

–American Quaternary Association

–Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)

OK trolls, your turn.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Vinnie Says:

Let’s put it another way. Do you want to believe the trolls and their posts above or the American Association for the Advancement of Science which has stated:

“The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society.”

Hmmm. Established scientific organization or Republican trolls that like to hang out and post on progressive web sites for some unknown reason? Like Fox News “I report, you decide”.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Vinnie Says:

Since I know one of these trolls is going to talk about how expensive it will be to solve global warming, here’s an article that estimates the damages to Alaska from global warming could be 10 billion dollars.

http://www.reuters.com/ article/ scienceNews/ idUSN2933428620070529
June 14th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Vinnie Says:

Or maybe we can ask the people who have had to leave their homes due to global warming what they think about the issue.

http://www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aaC50Lp_M1nE

(Note that my articles are both from neutral news sources. If you’d open your mind and read sites like Climate Progress you’d learn an awful lot more.)
June 14th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Smack Says:

CO2 isn’t a pollutant. Itâ€™s a naturally occurring element that nurishes plants, which in turn create another element called OXYGEN, which nourishes Animals (like us). The primary ‘greenhouse’ gas is WATER VAPOR (90% or more)- CO2 makes up less than 1/2 of 1% of greenhouse gasses.

My skepticism about this issue is based on who is pushing it and their solution. When the solution invariably turns to taxation and placing limitations on our liberty, I become very uneasy.

Trust no one. Question everything.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
msjoanne Says:

Global dimming…Google it. It will scare the crap out of you!
June 14th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Zooey Says:

Trust no one. Question everything.
Comment by Smack

I don’t trust you.

I question your sanity.

Hey, cool philosophy, Smack!
June 14th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Zooey Says:

Vinnie,

If I’m conserving already, and taking the bus or walking, and drastically reduced consumerism, what else can I do?

If everyone started doing the same would it make a difference? Or do we have to somehow force the big polluters to stop as well?

That might be a dream world.
June 14th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Smack Says:

Vinnie - I too can make a list of organizations. Think for yourself for just a minute. Why all of a sudden are they pushing this so hard? Do you recall that in the 70’s there was a Global Cooling scare? Oh but Science was primitive in the 70’s, weâ€™re so much smarter now, right?
â€¦sigh
This thing has become a religion with people. There can be no reasoned discussion anymore. Don’t you see the warning signs in those phenomena alone?

They (Globalist, Corporations, and The Government) Want to TAX US for CO2 emissions. They will use this as an excuse to put more restrictions on our liberties. Donâ€™t you see the warning signs here too?
June 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
heyzeus Says:

“The primary â€˜greenhouseâ€™ gas is WATER VAPOR (90% or more)-”
Trust no one. Question everything.
Comment by Smack

To many golf courses.

(and ALWAYS question authority……………..)
June 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
heyzeus Says:

They (Globalist, Corporations, and The Government) Want to TAX US for CO2 emissions. They will use this as an excuse to put more restrictions on our liberties. Donâ€™t you see the warning signs here too?

Comment by Smack

Oh yeah, big red flags, for a while now……
Surely you weren’t expecting industry to do anything without reaping a profit?
June 14th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Vinnie Says:

Vinnie - I too can make a list of organizations.

–Well then, let’s see it. Most likely it would be organizations that are funded by oil companies as opposed to valid scientific organizations like the ones I listed.

Think for yourself for just a minute. Why all of a sudden are they pushing this so hard?

–Carl Sagan talked about GW back in the early 80’s. This has been known as a potential problem for quite some time. (You obviously haven’t seen An Inconvenient Truth.) What’s telling is how this all important topic has been so quiet in the mainstream media. The evidence coming out now is so overwhelming that it can’t be kept quiet anymore.

Do you recall that in the 70â€™s there was a Global Cooling scare?

–Yes, this idea existed in the 70’s. It was NOT accepted by the scientific mainstream as GW is today. Even if it were, that’s the beauty of science. Unlike our fearless leader, we will change our opinion if the evidence indicates that we should.

This thing has become a religion with people. There can be no reasoned discussion anymore. Donâ€™t you see the warning signs in those phenomena alone?

–No. It’s not religion it’s science!! As with other scientific theories, there comes a point where the evidence is so overwhelming that it becomes accepted as every day reality. The right-wing assault on science uses a key tactic of introducing doubt where none should exist. The same tactic was used by tobacco companies which tried to cast doubt on the well-accepted idea that cigarette smoking can cause lung cancer. You minimize all of the studies that CONSISTENTLY point to GW being a man-made reality with extensive potential consequences.

I could go on about how all of these stupid chemists just accept atomic theory as fact when we can’t even see atoms.

They (Globalist, Corporations, and The Government) Want to TAX US for CO2 emissions.

–This is the most corrupt argument your crowd has come up with. The oil and automotive industries stand the most to lose if we take some simple measures such as increasing fuel economy. Exxon and others have spent MILLIONS trying to foster doubt on this subject, just like you’re doing. (Which leaves me suspicious.) And yet it’s Al Gore, who has donated ALL of his profits from his movie and books, who is trying to make money off of us.

They will use this as an excuse to put more restrictions on our liberties. Donâ€™t you see the warning signs here too?

–I’m sorry. I don’t buy the Dick Cheney line that we all have the God-given ‘freedom’ to be able to pollute as much as we like. What a childish attitude that you want to drive your Hummer and pollute like hell even though this may do irreperable harm to the planet. Do you realize how selfish and stupid that is?

Comment by Smack â€” June 14, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
June 14th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
muckdog Says:

#19, you are correct.

But these folks are trying to sell a religion here. They don’t like facts and figures much. They’ve memorized the left wing talking points, and do not have time to bother with reality.

Global warming has been debunked. “Man’s contribution to the greenhouse gases was so small we couldn’t change the climate if we tried. We’re all going to survive this. It’s all going to be a joke in five years,” he said.

Why not sign the petition to urge Al Gore debate global warming with Lord Monckton of Brenchley. What is Gore afraid of???

Man’s contribution to CO2? .11%.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Vinnie Says:

â€œThe primary â€˜greenhouseâ€™ gas is WATER VAPOR (90% or more)-â€
Trust no one. Question everything.
Comment by Smack

To many golf courses.

(and ALWAYS question authorityâ€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..)

Comment by heyzeus â€” June 14, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

More bullsh*t pseudoscience generated by Exxon and others that want to cast doubt on the fact that the scientific consensus is that global warming is real and is caused by man.

This one is easy. While the water vapor does exist and does cause heat retention, we are not altering the level of water vapor as we are the level of carbon dioxide. The increase in CO2 is contributing to warming. The fact that there are other things that contribute to the current tempurature of the planet is irrelevant.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Vinnie Says:

Muckdog.

I have challenged you to present a list of scientific organizations that share your beliefs. You consistently fail to do so. Citing a newspaper article that quotes a SINGLE meteorologist.

I’m not trying to ’sell a religion’. I’m trying to get people to see the real science through all of the crap that you and your kind spew out. I am honestly concerned about the future of this planet. You are concerned about profits for the oil companies you probably are well-invested in.

If you’re going to cite junkscience.com you should mention that its founder Stephen Milloy, has accepted money from Exxon. Oh, how convenient it is to forget that. He also has accepted money from Philip Morris and other tobacco companies as he argued against the effects of second-hand smoke. And these are your heroes!!
June 15th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Vinnie Says:

Here’s more on Fox News columnist Stephen Milloy.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steve_Milloy

Talk about ’selling’. This guy is a paid hack of industry!! I thought you wanted to talk about this SCIENTIFICALLY. Don’t you think you should quote established scientists and not people from POLITICAL organizations like the Cato Institute?
June 15th, 2007 at 12:17 am
freedomrings Says:

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 12:07 am

The Sun…
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/ gallery/ images/ large/ tricomp_prev.jpg
June 15th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Vinnie Says:

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 12:07 am

The Sunâ€¦
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/ gallery/ images/ large/ tricomp_prev.jpg

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 15, 2007 @ 12:20 am

Interesting!! Any idea why the established scientific community doesn’t think that this is the primary cause of the increased planetary warming that we’ve seen?

You guys are pathetic. “The earth isn’t warming.” “Well, the earth is warming but it’s not man’s fault.” “Uh, let’s just ignore it and pretend that reputable scientists are fools.” “Listen to me and the paid hacks of the oil industry.”
June 15th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Vinnie Says:

Vinnie,

If Iâ€™m conserving already, and taking the bus or walking, and drastically reduced consumerism, what else can I do?

If everyone started doing the same would it make a difference? Or do we have to somehow force the big polluters to stop as well?

That might be a dream world.

Comment by Zooey â€” June 14, 2007 @ 10:43 pm

Zooey,

This is a very hard question. We have a long battle in front of us. These trolls are child’s play compared to the millions that Exxon and others are throwing on their side. They’ll do everything to get Bush and congress to do nothing about the problem while their profits increase and increase.

I’m very involved in local politics and trying to prevent excessive, sprawling development in my home town. It’s hard too.

I have a 10 year old son. I’d like to do what I can to help make a better planet. I spend much of my spare time on volunteer work related to environmentalism and donate a lot of my money to this cause. I make NOTHING off of all of my efforts. I am a concerned citizen and not a paid hack like Stephen Milloy.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Vinnie Says:

And since the trolls want to take us off topic, let’s look at some of the conclusions that the National Climatic Data Center (undoubtedly a left-wing think tank) reported:

-For the spring, much of Siberia is a stunning 5Â°C (9Â°F) above average.

-It was the driest spring on record across the southeast, with Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia setting records.

Sure, there’s nothing to worry about here.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:50 am
freedomrings Says:

You can do without the name calling. It is interesting that the entire solar system is showing a warming trend. You should visit the SOHO site.

Now here I will step to you. This is direct. You said I was apathetic and that is not true. So I agree with you Vin and then please explain how humans can fix the problem!

Step by step show the precise plan. My understanding is that you hope to move to alternative energy. You intend to bring your car, plastics and GM foods into the future. You want to make solar cells and you intend to use bio fuels.

My understanding of energy says that we need to turn every single thing off immediately. We need to ban cars. We need to ban aircraft. We need to knock down all of the tall cities. We need to put everything left into food to feed everyone and not be forced to cull population. We may then have a chance to draw down the global population by sterilization. If we can get the global population down to a few million total, then humanity may be able to avoid extinction.

Unless we do all of that your hybrid cars and solar cells will exhaust the remaining oil by being manufactured and adding to the emissions you blame for the warming when we are just passing a solar max! You may also want to search Google for â€œthe earth is slowing downâ€. Now your question relating to scienceâ€¦ it could be that they are full of donkey dust. Please remember that scientists brought us the hydrogen bomb, chemical weapons and Velcro.

I like the idea of a total power down since it deals with peak everything and pollution and tests your survival skills. Regardless, if it means ending the world I refuse to pay a carbon tax and let it end. If we broke this it will take mass murder to cut down the basic cause â€œto many peopleâ€! By the way did you know that the Earth and the entire solar system is slowing down as in days are now longer than 24 mins and we have to make adjustments?
June 15th, 2007 at 12:55 am
freedomrings Says:

Minor point that should be 24 HOURS not mins
June 15th, 2007 at 1:05 am
freedomrings Says:

I have a 10 year old son. Iâ€™d like to do what I can to help make a better planet. I spend much of my spare time on volunteer work related to environmentalism and donate a lot of my money to this cause. I make NOTHING off of all of my efforts. I am a concerned citizen and not a paid hack like Stephen Milloy.

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 12:34 am

If you kill your son and entire family and then blow your brains out the combined decomposition emissions will be less than if you all drive in your hybrid from Detroit to Canada! Every little bit helps by the way and the sooner people start killing themselves the less carbon emitters there will be! A win win!
June 15th, 2007 at 1:15 am
Vinnie Says:

freedomrings,

I didn’t name call. I said your initial post was apathetic. I stand by that.

I don’t believe there are any established scientists that are explaining the recent rise on the earth’s tempuratre to an overall warming of the solar system. I challenge you to provide a single SCIENTIFIC reference to this claim.

For example, here’s a position paper on global warming from the American Meteorological Society. Note that it doesn’t mention your argument at all.

http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2007climatechange.html

You know that there is no such thing as a ‘precise plan’. However, if you’re really interested there are many books on the subject. If I had to answer with the simplest, most relevant action item it would be “reduce energy consumption”. There are SO many ways that we could do this it isn’t funny. And most of these wouldn’t cost us anything.

“My understanding of energy says that we need to turn every single thing off immediately.”

Sorry, this statement is just weird. You’re trying to take us down some weird path where I suggest we remove all technology and energy usage. That’s just weird! It’s your argument and not mine.

“Now your question relating to scienceâ€¦ it could be that they are full of donkey dust. Please remember that scientists brought us the hydrogen bomb, chemical weapons and Velcro.”

I’m a full believer in the scientific method. It sounds like you’re highly sceptical of modern science. Before you forget, science has also brought us some good things like electricity, modern medicine, etc.

“… I refuse to pay a carbon tax”

Ahhh. Here we get to the real reason you’re opposed to action against global warming. You’re afraid of the economic impacts. If you’re a true free market economist then you should admit that polluters need to pay the fair cost of their pollution for the market to work properly. Polluters should not be allowed to pass the cost of their pollution onto the general population. You favor ‘free markets’ only when the rules of them are in your favor. Your solution is to pass the problem along to future generations. Just like Bush borrowing money today that will have to be repaid by future generations. I would call that selfish.

“By the way did you know that the Earth and the entire solar system is slowing down as in days are now longer than 24 mins and we have to make adjustments?”

Again, be sensationalist and try to make both of us sound completely irrational. It isn’t working. You’re the only one suggesting weird things like this. My ‘alarmism’ is based on established scientific opinion. I’m sorry if that scares you. It should!!
June 15th, 2007 at 1:29 am
Vinnie Says:

If you kill your son and entire family and then blow your brains out the combined decomposition emissions will be less than if you all drive in your hybrid from Detroit to Canada! Every little bit helps by the way and the sooner people start killing themselves the less carbon emitters there will be! A win win!

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 15, 2007 @ 1:15 am

I’m sorry. I thought we were having a rational debate. I guess I was mistaken.

This is another standard tactic which implies that the efforts to combat global warming are just more than we could rationally be expected to do. That is a flat-out lie and misconception!! Reducing greenhouse gas emissions over the next 10-20 years is entirely within our capabilities. Don’t let the naysayers admit defeat yet.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:32 am
freedomrings Says:

Vin I stated that my understanding of our problem is an ENERGY problem. We must power down to advert extinction. You canâ€™t conserve energy and deliver food for more than 1500 miles. Industrialization is the root of everything and has allowed us to make almost 7 Billion other fools that will consume everything and make a desert of the land.

We must ration all energy immediately. We must grow food locally and we will have less and less available energy to do the necessary work. The energy problem is being masked by the warming issue.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:42 am
freedomrings Says:

Iâ€™m sorry. I thought we were having a rational debate. I guess I was mistaken.

This is another standard tactic which implies that the efforts to combat global warming are just more than we could rationally be expected to do. That is a flat-out lie and misconception!! Reducing greenhouse gas emissions over the next 10-20 years is entirely within our capabilities. Donâ€™t let the naysayers admit defeat yet.

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 1:32 am

I am! You and your family are useless eaters! If you all die that is a little more room for the rest of us and your deaths will save energy and reduce emissions. You are a CO2 emitter Vin and we want to reduce those emissions and you should set the example! That is sane and rational! Too many people so to much CO2. Kill as many people as you can and tada emissions are reduced! Simple and effective plan and you believe in global warming being caused by humans!
June 15th, 2007 at 1:48 am
Vinnie Says:

So what can we do about it and even if we did do something what would that do?

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 14, 2007 @ 8:20 pm

We must ration all energy immediately. We must grow food locally and we will have less and less available energy to do the necessary work. The energy problem is being masked by the warming issue.

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 15, 2007 @ 1:42 am

In five hours you’ve gone from “So what can we do about it” to “We must ration all energy immediately.” You’re all over the place. This is another common tactic - pretending that you’re really compassionate and concerned for mankind. I just don’t buy it. I think you’re making it up as you go along.

I understand the energy problem. I think peak oil and global warming form an interesting confluence. If energy is that scarce and yet critical to our technology, then a carbon tax would really make sense to help preserve the existing supplies. If you are really concerned about the global supply of energy, then you should be pushing for alternative energy, calling for increased fuel economy, advocating conservation, etc. Given your strong beliefs on this issue, you should start doing this right away.

Again, I don’t buy your concern. My impression is that your posts have consistently mocked those of us that are trying to do something concrete about global warming. And now you’re trying to say you have the same concern but because of energy concerns and not because of global warming concerns.

Fine, become one of those that talks a lot about peak oil and what we should do about since you’re so concerned. I look forward to reading your posts on the subject. I really do find that an interesting topic.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:59 am
Vinnie Says:

I am! You and your family are useless eaters! If you all die that is a little more room for the rest of us and your deaths will save energy and reduce emissions. You are a CO2 emitter Vin and we want to reduce those emissions and you should set the example! That is sane and rational! Too many people so to much CO2. Kill as many people as you can and tada emissions are reduced! Simple and effective plan and you believe in global warming being caused by humans!

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 15, 2007 @ 1:48 am

I feel like a fool for spending so much time responding to you. At least you have clearly shown to us all what a complete A-hole you are.
June 15th, 2007 at 2:01 am
freedomrings Says:

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 1:59 am

You can’t answer one single question I pose. You have no plan except to charge a tax.

I wanted to see what you had and you can’t demonstrate a sensible plan to reduce emissions.

I showed 2 ways. Forced rationing to a total power down and a population cull!

I was never apathetic though I just want you to understand that our energy problem is the problem that trumps everything else. There is no “conversation” with your type. You think I’m using tactics LOL I’m shooting the poo brother man. A carbon tax will cause the poor great misery and the wealthy will not have an issue. It will create class warfare! Leading us to a population cull!
June 15th, 2007 at 2:10 am
freedomrings Says:

I feel like a fool for spending so much time responding to you. At least you have clearly shown to us all what a complete A-hole you are.

Comment by Vinnie â€” June 15, 2007 @ 2:01 am

More name calling? We are all fools Vin except I realize a fool and his money are soon parted. I don’t think you read anything I posted. You are in fact a CO2 emitter Vin. Nothing personal but your into taxation without representation, you doubt the Sun has anything to do with it and each time you respire you emit CO2. 3 strikes Vin
June 15th, 2007 at 2:17 am
freedomrings Says:

Oh and sleep well Vin I gotta run!
PS: Your death may save others thank you for your molecular sacrifice!
June 15th, 2007 at 2:19 am
Vinnie Says:

I can provide numerous examples of actionable items. How about increased CAFE standards for one? If you’re really interested (which I doubt) here are a couple of sites with lots of actionable items.

http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/

http://www.amazon.com/ Hell-High-Water-Warming-Politics/ dp/ 006117212X

I also mentioned that I’m working at the local level to combat development that will only add to the problem. I guess you missed that part.

Your two solutions are stopping all energy usage and killing people? And you claim that I’m the one that there is no conversation with?! Sorry, just saying you’ve won the argument doesn’t quite make it so.

I think I’ve done my job. I’ve presented logical arguments based on established science. You’ve advocated killing people. I think the average person can see who’s the nut case here. You trolls just don’t realize how bad you make the right wing look. HA! HA!
June 15th, 2007 at 2:22 am
Vinnie Says:

More name calling?

Comment by freedomrings â€” June 15, 2007 @ 2:17 am

More typical troll behavior - Incite people into a nasty argument and then accuse them of being nasty. You advocated that I kill myself and my family!! Do you think that’s funny?! I was highly insulted by that and it shows what a complete jerk you are. Yes, I think I was perfectly justified to call you an A-hole.
June 15th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Royston Vasey Says:

Hottest.Year.Ever.
June 15th, 2007 at 6:47 am
swampgas Says:

The Global Warming Deniers are fueled by a small, perhaps less than 100 industry funded “skeptics”, and their sycophantic Libertarian Loud-Mouths like Alex Jones, Mike Rivero, and Jeff Rense. There are in contrast, 50,000 accredited scientists that say there is a problem with Global Warming.

I also hear Alex Jones, Rense, and Rivero go after the ACLU, Environmentalists, Gays, Woman’s Libbers, and call the The Beatles CIA agents. These people are corporate hacks, like Fred Singer, who himself was a tobacco industry lobbyist that argued that it does not cause cancer. Now Singer is being paid to say the same thing by the energy industry.
June 15th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Smack Says:

VINNIE :

What do you call it when no dissenting opinion is allowed? What does it mean when you immediately feel the need to go on the offensive (i.e. calling people Trolls) when someone voices a different opinion?

Is it untrue that accredited scientists involved in the study of Climatology disagree with the Dogma of Global Warming? Do none of their arguments merit any discussion? What happens when dogma replaces the scientific method?
I think you know the answer, but are too entrenched in your position to look at it rationally.

I don’t claim to know the answers. The hair on my neck stands up whenever people become militant about things like this. I hope you understand if I don’t like having my intellectual arm twisted by over-zealous believers like yourself.
Itâ€™s just another issue allows people to shed their morals and basic decency in order to foist their worldview on the rest of us.

Why is all the focus on CO2? Have you even bothered to question that basic tenant of the GW philosophy? Don’t you find it a bit curious? Itâ€™s kind of like CO2 is the climatological equivalent of Al-Qaida.
June 15th, 2007 at 10:33 am
muckdog Says:

#29, sorry Vinnie. I’ve linked to about 3 dozen scientists the past few months. Not just one.

So SCREW YOU and the global warming hype you road in on.

Nobody is going to do a DAMN THING because they know it’s a hoax.

That’s why there was no agreement at the G-8.

It’s all a bunch of BULL SHIT.

It’s a political tool used to solicit the votes of the most stupid among us. LIKE YOU.

Gore is using YOU.

WAKE UP.
June 15th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Green Party Says:

Outside of the “is climate warming real” debate. Does anyone really believe that the worlds oil reserves are endless? This is a problem that will have to be addressed at some point in either our lives or our childrens (the sooner the better IMHO)

Why does the push to alternative energy sources scare so many on the right of the politcal spectrum? I guess its cause Solar and Wind power are not energy sources that a few Large corporations can control and distribute(?) Do we really enjoy our reliance on a product that comes from one of the most volitile regions of the world? Do you need to keep using a product that may be contributing to a very serious climate issue?

Would a shift to clean alternative energy sources be that bad for the economy? Maybe for the large Oil corps, sure. But not for the average working person. It would create a whole new industry of small to middle sized companies to invent, install, and maintain these new systems.

Change is coming, we can either deny it and continue to live life as we have, which will only create bigger problems when the oil runs out and we are suffering from possible terrible climate change. Or, we can accept that we have to change and start doing so now.

The right wingers in here have mentioned liberty and freedom many times. How free are we really when we rely on Saudi Arabia for for so much of our oil. Remember, all but two of the people involved in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi’s.

How free from taxes are you when you buy fuel? The more your fuel costs the higher you pay in taxes too. With all the other negatives that goes with being dependant on this commodity, there has to be a better way.

BTW, there is. My 6Kw solar system on my roof, generates more power than I need most of the year and with out creating any pollution. So in 4 more years it will have paid for itself and start providing me with a small profit each month. Now thats a reality I can live with.

It a known fact that people who yell, scream and are angry rarely think or act rationally.
June 15th, 2007 at 11:56 am
swampgas Says:

muckdog and smack…Exxon/Mobil is using you two Right-Wing nutjobs.

Smack…The Good cop, so-called intellectual…”I have a different opinion”, Cosmic Rays, Solar, CO2 is good, blah, blah,blah

muckdog….The Bad Cop….”You stoopid dopes, Al Gore is Illuminati, The New World Order is in your toilet”….blah, blah, blah

Like I said, maybe 100 “Skeptics”, mostly funded by Coal, Nuclear, and oil saying there is a “debate”, and 50,000 cilmatologists say it is real, and the “debate” is over. Just think, you two have Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, GW Bush, Sean Hannity, and Michelle Malkin on your side. These are stunning intellects.

It is like the “debate” on whether the Iraq War is a sucess.

You Energy Industry Robots are a sick joke.

Read here gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Now you WAKE UP
June 15th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
freedomrings Says:

Comment by Green Party â€” June 15, 2007 @ 11:56 am

All the materials needed to make solar cells are mined. Most materials are mined! Mining is the least green thing humans can do. Your system probably uses batteries and the materials in them are mined and some are in even shorter supply than copper.

Ore extraction is energy intensive as is processing and transportation. It isnâ€™t that wind, solar and the like are bad by themselves but they are reliant on fossil fuel and will not be sustainable in a lower energy society since mass production requires high energy. Wind turbines require land and wind and then they need to be manufactured and transported to the site. Bothe mass production and transport rely on oil directly since tons of aluminum, copper, plastic and concrete would be needed we would have to burn the remaining oil to accomplish that.

The system would not be able to support itself in the long run and in the short run we would have lost the oil needed to create fertilizer to grow the food for the billions. You want to create a grid that still uses copper to deliver electron flow and that is great but there is a flaw in the plan already. Copper is now considered a semi-precious metal and the mines we get it from well are in trouble. Present energy costs are increasing the extraction costs and the processing costs and the transportation costs.

Go to your Lowes or Home Depot and look at the price of one ten foot length of 1/2 â€œ copper tubing (plumbing section). After comparison of todayâ€™s copper price to that of just two years ago you will see that it has now quadrupled. There you are looking reality in the face. The harsh truth that as the cost of oil climbs so does the cost of everything. True conservation forces people to face the reality that the industrial age is headed to a conclusion.

Making all of the solar and wind gadgets requires industrialization. Consider your computerâ€™s CPU. Intel or AMD uses industrialization to mass produce those chips. Those chips contain precious metals and those are mined. Their plants consume massive amounts of water, electricity and raw materials. The products must be packaged (plastic) and shipped (oil). There will simply be NO PROCESSORS if fossil fuel continues to decline in availability. The same goes for everything else. This is the reality of the situation not an evil plot.

We have to choose NOW between true conservation so we can continue to eat till we can reduce the population demanding all of the energy in the first place. My feeling is that the last hours of sunlight (remaining oil) needs to be used to re-center our lives around farms. People here insist that we can â€œbuildâ€ or way out of this or even worse â€œbuyâ€ our way out of this. Money is based on energy folks. A global tax simply amounts to class warfare. It is like the movie â€œThe 10 Commandmentsâ€ when the Pharaoh decrees that the slaves shall make bricks with no straw.

There will be no happy ending to this one!
June 15th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
freedomrings Says:

muckdog and smackâ€¦Exxon/Mobil is using you two Right-Wing nutjobs.
Smackâ€¦The Good cop, so-called intellectualâ€¦â€I have a different opinionâ€, Cosmic Rays, Solar, CO2 is good, blah, blah,blah
muckdogâ€¦.The Bad Copâ€¦.â€You stoopid(SIC) dopes, Al Gore is Illuminati, The New World Order is in your toiletâ€â€¦.blah, blah, blah
Like I said, maybe 100 â€œSkepticsâ€, mostly funded by Coal, Nuclear, and oil saying there is a â€œdebateâ€, and 50,000 cilmatologists(SIC) say it is real, and the â€œdebateâ€ is over. Just think, you two have Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, GW Bush, Sean Hannity, and Michelle Malkin on your side. These are stunning intellects.
It is like the â€œdebateâ€ on whether the Iraq War is a sucess(SIC).
You Energy Industry Robots are a sick joke.
Read here gristmill.grist.org/skeptics
Now you WAKE UP

This post is a massacre on spelling and an assault on common sense. You list a bunch of names, no facts and some personal opinions. We are in fact running out of oil and everything else. There is simply way to much demand on our resources. So you are angry and want to blame someone when in reality you are the problem. Your physical existence is the problem. We canâ€™t do anything till you understand that people like me work in the nuclear industry and oil industry and in industry and we want to live too.

Your post was a waste of energy FULL STOP.
June 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
freedomrings Says:

Copper mine in Utah

http://photos1.blogger.com/ blogger/ 7184/ 598/ 1600/ 2005-05-06-07-08-23.jpg

No copper = No wire = No eletcric motors
June 15th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
MsJoanne Says:

http://www.globalissues.org/ EnvIssues/ GlobalWarming/ globaldimming.asp

http://www.guardian.co.uk/ life/ feature/ story/ 0,,1108853,00.html

http://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=39520879762623193

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15809.htm
June 15th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
freedomrings Says:

On average it takes 30,090 gallons of water to manufacture a new car. Imagine that your hybrid not only burns oil but takes 30,000 gallons of water out of the system that people in the Sudan need to drink. Your hybrid or any car requires roughly 1,142 gallon of oil to build but more oil is needed to obtain and transport all of the raw materials. Just for you to get a car in your driveway you need all of that. Now you have to feed that car.

1 Barrel of Oil (46.4 gallons) = 23,200 Hours of Human Work Output

It would require 706 wind turbines alone to replace a single off-shore drilling platform producing 12,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd).

The law of diminishing returns is not a suggestion but in fact a natural law.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
Smack Says:

Swampgas -

Your illogical leap to the conclusion that merely questioning the Global Warming hype must be a Neo-Con or Right Winger, is a dead giveaway that what you’re preaching is pure dogma. You spew Global Warming talking points better than any mindless Neocon drone but, you can’t make the connection between you and them. You really are no different, sir. In fact, your self-righteous venom only convinces me more that this whole thing is an emotional football used to move the New World Order agenda further toward the goal - the complete enlslavement of all Humanity.

I piss on you and Al Gore. Try forcing your bullshit, global warming religion on us and you’ll be eating lead, sonny.
June 15th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
swampgas Says:

Smack and Freedom Rings

Now, first I will address the “intellectual” of you two, Freedomrings…..

You are a polluter if you work for the Nuclear industry. That simple enough for you? Your “facts” are claptrap for the people who want to continue the pollution of the planet unfettered. Another thing, you obviously don’t understand parody of the “Good Cop-Bad Cop syndrome. Enough time wasted with you.

On to smack….This is the foaming at the mouth Paranoid “Patriot” that thinks Satan and the New World Order are putting Owl-Shaped buildings everywhere on the planet, and Reptiles rule the United States
June 15th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
swampgas Says:

One of the people where the “debate” and “skepticism” on Global Warming. Get your Barf bags ready……..

June 15th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
swampgas Says:

Sorry, try here:

vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/05/wolcott200705
June 15th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
swampgas Says:

Try here

http://www.vanityfair.com/ politics/ features/ 2007/ 05/ wolcott200705

and here

http://www.evangelicalright.com/ 2007/ 02/ falwell_global_warming_is_sata.html
June 15th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
freedomrings Says:

Now, first I will address the â€œintellectualâ€ of you two, Freedomringsâ€¦..
You are a polluter if you work for the Nuclear industry. That simple enough for you? Your â€œfactsâ€ are claptrap for the people who want to continue the pollution of the planet unfettered. Another thing, you obviously donâ€™t understand parody of the â€œGood Cop-Bad Cop syndrome. Enough time wasted with you.

Comment by swampgas â€” June 15, 2007 @ 3:18 pm

I see you used a spelling checker this time! I didnâ€™t say I worked for the nuclear industry. What I did say was that, â€œWe canâ€™t do anything till you understand that people like me work in the nuclear industry and oil industry and in industry and we want to live too.â€ We could solve problems and develop a mutual understanding of positions but you think posters that disagree with your position are less informed or work for oil companies.

If I worked in energy or on the other side in industry the reality is those are just jobs but in the end we all want to live donâ€™t we? If I did fueling or defueling of reactors, that would not make me a polluter. That would make me an employee of an energy company who has a serious job that risks exposure so that a given region can have energy to use their computers, etc. If I worked in oil at one point or another the result is the same.

You are furious over energy prices for the most part. I canâ€™t blame you for that. The price is rising since it now requires more oil to produce even less gasoline since tail quality of stock is now mostly heavy and sour. Obtaining nuclear fuel is getting more and more energy intensive too since more and more earth must be moved to obtain less and less Uranium. Your issue is price and the need to blame that price on the seller.

Tough deal buddy pal. You bought into the whole industrialization deal just like we all did. It was good when it was good and now it is done. Once you do the math and see the energy studies you realize that a large global population requires even more energy than the current 85,000,000 bbl can supply. With all generation ON we are short. Naturally prices are going to soar since we have arrived at a â€œdemand destructionâ€ phase. Solar cells and windmills canâ€™t be mass produced in low energy conditions.

We all pollute daily Mr. Swampgas but as I stated the actual problem in the end is you! The fact that you exist adds to the demand on the available resources. I was not aware that you were able to address facts at all since you didnâ€™t bring any to the discussion. Here is a fact to discussâ€¦

â€œIt would require 706 wind turbines (at full power) alone to replace a single off-shore drilling platform producing 12,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd).â€

So discuss something. Talking about if so and so is a good cop or a bad cop is not discussion but gossip at best! Now I donâ€™t want to argue but my basic point is that extreme conservation starts by shutting everything down. That is in fact the opposite of pollution. I think a carbon tax will be unfair to the poor and that rationing is acceptable. That is not â€œclap-anythingâ€ and that happens to be the tip of the solution.
June 15th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
freedomrings Says:

Comment by swampgas â€” June 15, 2007 @ 4:28 pm

Are you on drugs or something? These links are to garbage that has nothing to do with anything!
June 15th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
freedomrings Says:

This is more PROOF that the only thing GREEN here in your “Pro Carbon Tax” plan is MONEY. Your #1 claim to fame is the “Prius” and it turns out that it is more damaging to the environment than a Hummer all said and done! More proof that you “greens” can’t find north on a compass!
June 16th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
freedomrings Says:

Sorry, I forgot to include the link to the paper or PROOF as it were!

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/ Recorder/ editorial/ editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

This is more PROOF that the only thing GREEN here in your â€œPro Carbon Taxâ€ plan is MONEY. Your #1 claim to fame is the â€œPriusâ€ and it turns out that it is more damaging to the environment than a Hummer all said and done! More proof that you â€œgreensâ€ canâ€™t find north on a compass!
June 16th, 2007 at 12:16 pm

2007: Hottest year ever thus far.

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