http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

This is more PROOF that the only thing GREEN here in your “Pro Carbon Tax” plan is MONEY. Your #1 claim to fame is the “Prius” and it turns out that it is more damaging to the environment than a Hummer all said and done! More proof that you “greens” can’t find north on a compass!

Are you on drugs or something? These links are to garbage that has nothing to do with anything!

Comment by swampgas — June 15, 2007 @ 3:18 pm

I see you used a spelling checker this time! I didn’t say I worked for the nuclear industry. What I did say was that, “We can’t do anything till you understand that people like me work in the nuclear industry and oil industry and in industry and we want to live too.” We could solve problems and develop a mutual understanding of positions but you think posters that disagree with your position are less informed or work for oil companies.

If I worked in energy or on the other side in industry the reality is those are just jobs but in the end we all want to live don’t we? If I did fueling or defueling of reactors, that would not make me a polluter. That would make me an employee of an energy company who has a serious job that risks exposure so that a given region can have energy to use their computers, etc. If I worked in oil at one point or another the result is the same.

You are furious over energy prices for the most part. I can’t blame you for that. The price is rising since it now requires more oil to produce even less gasoline since tail quality of stock is now mostly heavy and sour. Obtaining nuclear fuel is getting more and more energy intensive too since more and more earth must be moved to obtain less and less Uranium. Your issue is price and the need to blame that price on the seller.

Tough deal buddy pal. You bought into the whole industrialization deal just like we all did. It was good when it was good and now it is done. Once you do the math and see the energy studies you realize that a large global population requires even more energy than the current 85,000,000 bbl can supply. With all generation ON we are short. Naturally prices are going to soar since we have arrived at a “demand destruction” phase. Solar cells and windmills can’t be mass produced in low energy conditions.

We all pollute daily Mr. Swampgas but as I stated the actual problem in the end is you! The fact that you exist adds to the demand on the available resources. I was not aware that you were able to address facts at all since you didn’t bring any to the discussion. Here is a fact to discuss…

“It would require 706 wind turbines (at full power) alone to replace a single off-shore drilling platform producing 12,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd).”

So discuss something. Talking about if so and so is a good cop or a bad cop is not discussion but gossip at best! Now I don’t want to argue but my basic point is that extreme conservation starts by shutting everything down. That is in fact the opposite of pollution. I think a carbon tax will be unfair to the poor and that rationing is acceptable. That is not “clap-anything” and that happens to be the tip of the solution.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/05/wolcott200705

and here

http://www.evangelicalright.com/2007/02/falwell_global_warming_is_sata.html

vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/05/wolcott200705

Now, first I will address the “intellectual” of you two, Freedomrings…..

You are a polluter if you work for the Nuclear industry. That simple enough for you? Your “facts” are claptrap for the people who want to continue the pollution of the planet unfettered. Another thing, you obviously don’t understand parody of the “Good Cop-Bad Cop syndrome. Enough time wasted with you.

On to smack….This is the foaming at the mouth Paranoid “Patriot” that thinks Satan and the New World Order are putting Owl-Shaped buildings everywhere on the planet, and Reptiles rule the United States

Your illogical leap to the conclusion that merely questioning the Global Warming hype must be a Neo-Con or Right Winger, is a dead giveaway that what you’re preaching is pure dogma. You spew Global Warming talking points better than any mindless Neocon drone but, you can’t make the connection between you and them. You really are no different, sir. In fact, your self-righteous venom only convinces me more that this whole thing is an emotional football used to move the New World Order agenda further toward the goal – the complete enlslavement of all Humanity.

I piss on you and Al Gore. Try forcing your bullshit, global warming religion on us and you’ll be eating lead, sonny.

1 Barrel of Oil (46.4 gallons) = 23,200 Hours of Human Work Output

It would require 706 wind turbines alone to replace a single off-shore drilling platform producing 12,000 barrels of oil per day (bpd).

The law of diminishing returns is not a suggestion but in fact a natural law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,,1108853,00.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=39520879762623193

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15809.htm

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7184/598/1600/2005-05-06-07-08-23.jpg

No copper = No wire = No eletcric motors

This post is a massacre on spelling and an assault on common sense. You list a bunch of names, no facts and some personal opinions. We are in fact running out of oil and everything else. There is simply way to much demand on our resources. So you are angry and want to blame someone when in reality you are the problem. Your physical existence is the problem. We can’t do anything till you understand that people like me work in the nuclear industry and oil industry and in industry and we want to live too.

Your post was a waste of energy FULL STOP.

All the materials needed to make solar cells are mined. Most materials are mined! Mining is the least green thing humans can do. Your system probably uses batteries and the materials in them are mined and some are in even shorter supply than copper.

Ore extraction is energy intensive as is processing and transportation. It isn’t that wind, solar and the like are bad by themselves but they are reliant on fossil fuel and will not be sustainable in a lower energy society since mass production requires high energy. Wind turbines require land and wind and then they need to be manufactured and transported to the site. Bothe mass production and transport rely on oil directly since tons of aluminum, copper, plastic and concrete would be needed we would have to burn the remaining oil to accomplish that.

The system would not be able to support itself in the long run and in the short run we would have lost the oil needed to create fertilizer to grow the food for the billions. You want to create a grid that still uses copper to deliver electron flow and that is great but there is a flaw in the plan already. Copper is now considered a semi-precious metal and the mines we get it from well are in trouble. Present energy costs are increasing the extraction costs and the processing costs and the transportation costs.

Go to your Lowes or Home Depot and look at the price of one ten foot length of 1/2 “ copper tubing (plumbing section). After comparison of today’s copper price to that of just two years ago you will see that it has now quadrupled. There you are looking reality in the face. The harsh truth that as the cost of oil climbs so does the cost of everything. True conservation forces people to face the reality that the industrial age is headed to a conclusion.

Making all of the solar and wind gadgets requires industrialization. Consider your computer’s CPU. Intel or AMD uses industrialization to mass produce those chips. Those chips contain precious metals and those are mined. Their plants consume massive amounts of water, electricity and raw materials. The products must be packaged (plastic) and shipped (oil). There will simply be NO PROCESSORS if fossil fuel continues to decline in availability. The same goes for everything else. This is the reality of the situation not an evil plot.

We have to choose NOW between true conservation so we can continue to eat till we can reduce the population demanding all of the energy in the first place. My feeling is that the last hours of sunlight (remaining oil) needs to be used to re-center our lives around farms. People here insist that we can “build” or way out of this or even worse “buy” our way out of this. Money is based on energy folks. A global tax simply amounts to class warfare. It is like the movie “The 10 Commandments” when the Pharaoh decrees that the slaves shall make bricks with no straw.

There will be no happy ending to this one!

Smack…The Good cop, so-called intellectual…”I have a different opinion”, Cosmic Rays, Solar, CO2 is good, blah, blah,blah

muckdog….The Bad Cop….”You stoopid dopes, Al Gore is Illuminati, The New World Order is in your toilet”….blah, blah, blah

Like I said, maybe 100 “Skeptics”, mostly funded by Coal, Nuclear, and oil saying there is a “debate”, and 50,000 cilmatologists say it is real, and the “debate” is over. Just think, you two have Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, GW Bush, Sean Hannity, and Michelle Malkin on your side. These are stunning intellects.

It is like the “debate” on whether the Iraq War is a sucess.

You Energy Industry Robots are a sick joke.

Read here gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Now you WAKE UP

Why does the push to alternative energy sources scare so many on the right of the politcal spectrum? I guess its cause Solar and Wind power are not energy sources that a few Large corporations can control and distribute(?) Do we really enjoy our reliance on a product that comes from one of the most volitile regions of the world? Do you need to keep using a product that may be contributing to a very serious climate issue?

Would a shift to clean alternative energy sources be that bad for the economy? Maybe for the large Oil corps, sure. But not for the average working person. It would create a whole new industry of small to middle sized companies to invent, install, and maintain these new systems.

Change is coming, we can either deny it and continue to live life as we have, which will only create bigger problems when the oil runs out and we are suffering from possible terrible climate change. Or, we can accept that we have to change and start doing so now.

The right wingers in here have mentioned liberty and freedom many times. How free are we really when we rely on Saudi Arabia for for so much of our oil. Remember, all but two of the people involved in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi’s.

How free from taxes are you when you buy fuel? The more your fuel costs the higher you pay in taxes too. With all the other negatives that goes with being dependant on this commodity, there has to be a better way.

BTW, there is. My 6Kw solar system on my roof, generates more power than I need most of the year and with out creating any pollution. So in 4 more years it will have paid for itself and start providing me with a small profit each month. Now thats a reality I can live with.

It a known fact that people who yell, scream and are angry rarely think or act rationally.

So SCREW YOU and the global warming hype you road in on.

Nobody is going to do a DAMN THING because they know it’s a hoax.

That’s why there was no agreement at the G-8.

It’s all a bunch of BULL SHIT.

It’s a political tool used to solicit the votes of the most stupid among us. LIKE YOU.

Gore is using YOU.

WAKE UP.

What do you call it when no dissenting opinion is allowed? What does it mean when you immediately feel the need to go on the offensive (i.e. calling people Trolls) when someone voices a different opinion?

Is it untrue that accredited scientists involved in the study of Climatology disagree with the Dogma of Global Warming? Do none of their arguments merit any discussion? What happens when dogma replaces the scientific method?
I think you know the answer, but are too entrenched in your position to look at it rationally.

I don’t claim to know the answers. The hair on my neck stands up whenever people become militant about things like this. I hope you understand if I don’t like having my intellectual arm twisted by over-zealous believers like yourself.
It’s just another issue allows people to shed their morals and basic decency in order to foist their worldview on the rest of us.

Why is all the focus on CO2? Have you even bothered to question that basic tenant of the GW philosophy? Don’t you find it a bit curious? It’s kind of like CO2 is the climatological equivalent of Al-Qaida.

I also hear Alex Jones, Rense, and Rivero go after the ACLU, Environmentalists, Gays, Woman’s Libbers, and call the The Beatles CIA agents. These people are corporate hacks, like Fred Singer, who himself was a tobacco industry lobbyist that argued that it does not cause cancer. Now Singer is being paid to say the same thing by the energy industry.