Michael Moore talks health care crisis with Oprah.
By on Jun 16th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Michael Moore talks health care crisis with Oprah.
Michael Moore’s new film on health care, Sicko, premieres everywhere on June 29. (Much more about Sicko HERE.) Moore recently spoke with Oprah Winfrey about America’s broken health care system, and showed several exclusive clips from the film. Watch it:
[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/moreopra615.320.240.flv]
Earlier this week, Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), whose congressional health care bill the campaign supports, said: “The release of Michael Moore’s ‘Sicko’ is one of the most important developments in the national debate on our health care crisis since the Clintons attempted to pass universal health care legislation in 1994.”
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Michael Moore and Oprah talking about health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEYOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, it's not a joke,
Go figure?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmMichael Moore and Oprah talking about health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HEYOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, it’s not a joke,
Go figure?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:19 pmWatch the entire movie on youtube, but do it quick before Weinstein, Co. gets it pulled! Moore himself has said that he's happy if people watch it, so go ahead.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:21 pmYes. lets all take healthcare advice from a 500 lb man with 15 pounds of fat around his heart.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pmYou know, Cuba has the highest number of doctors per capita of all the countries in the world. They also have the highest number of political prisoners of any country in the world.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:28 pmmandolin: What do you mean? With all those clogged arteries and probably his insulin completely out of whack, he should be an expert on the health care system.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmScratch that, lets all take healthcare advice from a 500lb man and a 300 lb woman.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmAnd the first serious frontrunner who promises "free health care for all" will win in 08 - hands down! Let's face it: 45 Million people without any health care at all - which doesn't include the ?? Million seniors who are on Medicare and what does that leave us?? It leaves many working americans without proper health care for themselves and their families, that's what it leaves in it's wake.
Abominable that we spend millions of dollars EACH DAY BEFORE BREAKFAST in Iraq and our children and families have to choose between the roof over their head and medicine - or food on their table and medicine. Utterly appalling.
And THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT DEFINES A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY!!
June 16th, 2007 at 2:32 pmComment by mandolin
Ah, yes, the troll known as banjo returns.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:32 pmNico! I see you restored the Iran link at the top. It's funny how it disappeared the day Iran took those British soldiers hostage. And it's back now that story has been forgotten. If I were more cynical I might say it was removed so you could avoid reporting on that topic. How long will it stay this time?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:33 pm#8: "Free health care". Yeah, right. The first serious forerunner who does that will lose all his or her chances. We did away with communism in the 90s, don't you remember?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pmI, for one, don't want to hear Edwards, Hillary, or Obama (and the entire slate of Rethugs running) discuss "affordable health care".
Affordable health care (which Edwards says will cost $10,000 per family for which they will get a "tax break") means nothing when the family income doesn't even qualify them to pay taxes in the first place.....is considered "poverty level" and/or can't afford to pay $10,000 - now I wonder just how many households in america would fall into this group?
And, we're now seeing how the "economic indicators" are being played with - with their own level of fraud. Since when does the bond market go up and Gold not rise?? Who the hell is tinkering with the Gold market?? I think we all know the answer to that question.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:34 pmAnyone else wondering why it takes Michael Moore, and the blogosphere, to bring these issues into the public forum? What actually is the point in the public media anymore?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:35 pmIf this economy wasn't being propped up by illegals working in the corporations, our entire corporate structure and economy would most certainly collapse.
Once NAR got the facts into the "housing market lie", it began falling apart. The gold/bond inversion (which makes no sense at all on the capital scene) will be the next bogus indicator.
It's clear that Bush's fingerprints are all over these economic lies and the financial markets are beginning to get asked some impossible questions.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pmYes. lets all take healthcare advice from a 500 lb man with 15 pounds of fat around his heart.
Comment by mandolin — June 16, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
He's not giving medical advice, Einstein. He's pointing out the broken medical system in our country. Big difference.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pm#
Scratch that, lets all take healthcare advice from a 500lb man and a 300 lb woman.
Comment by mandolin — June 16, 2007 @ 2:29 pm
Who would you prefer to discuss it then troll? Is the RNC still paying five cents per post?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:37 pm#13: Public media keeps the public informed about events that concern them. Politics, domestic or foreign, isn't one of them and that's a bloody good thing. Can you imagine what it would be like if we actually let all the morons in the lower half of the IQ gaussian to actually get raw information and influence the decision making process.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pm#13 Because the MSM is corporate owned; the day of the truth teller is long gone, thanks to the propaganda/Bushitco regime. No one can go to the MSM for the truth of any situation any longer. That's why the MSM is quickly becoming a dinosaur in this country. People go to foreign news outlets for the truth about themselves these days....pretty sad that it's come to this.
People I know are boycotting the "Faux News Stations" and not buying into their scumbag crap any longer. They're sickos - just like Moore's new movie.
BIG PHARMA, BIG OIL, AND BIG INSURANCE are running this country now - even King George has been displaced in the mix.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pm“free health care for all†will win in 08 - hands down!
I disagree, The Government can't run VA health care (And never could), Will not do anything about the pharmacutical companies (And never will), hasn't touched insurance companies (and never will). Somehow I am supposed to believe that I can trust the care of my kids to these bozoos with zero experience in the matter? The only thing they can do right is screw things up and add red tape.
If Universal Health care became a reality (Just saying if), many people on this board will become as bad as the Republican trolls they hate. People will post stories about how a child with cancer couldn't get the drugs due to a filing error and excuses will start flowing and that one child is just a statistic again.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pmThat's right GOPcurious! We certainly can't have morons like you attempting to have any credibility whatsoever. That's patently clear from the mediocrity of your post.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm#18: Yes. Blame the corporations. They're what's wrong with everything in our country.
What simplistic, misinformed drivel. Corporations are the lifeblood of America.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pmAbominable that we spend millions of dollars EACH DAY BEFORE BREAKFAST in Iraq and our children and families have to choose between the roof over their head and medicine - or food on their table and medicine. Utterly appalling.
And THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT DEFINES A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY!!
Comment by veritas — June 16, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Well said - it bears repeating...
June 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pmTundra: Your point about the government not being able to change their own diapers is accurate; fortunately, there's a shred of hope left if credible people take control of the white house. I do believe there are plenty of people who have the ability to do their jobs - unfortunately, they are not Republicans.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pmI've said it before and I'll say it again:
The problem in this country with healthcare is not that it costs too much, it's that they charge too much. Healthcare should be driven by altruism, not capitalism.
I'll go away now.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:43 pm#24: altruism doesn't pay the bills.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:43 pmUnbelievable: It's certain that both Dumbya's legacy and the legacy of the almost-extinct GOP will certainly be that they've taken the US from a first world country to a third-world country in one fell swoop!
What a legacy, indeed! Their children will rebuke them and blame them for everything wrong with the country they will inherit. Glad that I'm not one of them. Phew!
June 16th, 2007 at 2:43 pmTundra et al: Ever wonder why it costs twice as much for a medication in this country as it does in Canada? You'd see the prices drop like the Titanic if/when we have socialized medicine.....no BIG PHARMA raping the american citizens!
June 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm#25 And Neither does the GOP! (GOPcurious). It's fact that your party has amassed a debt to the tune of some $30,000 on the heads of every american citizen as of this moment. How does that pay your bills, dude?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pmGOP = THE MOST LIBERAL PARTY EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY.....HEH-HEH!
June 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pmfortunately, there’s a shred of hope left if credible people take control of the white house.i>
And if they get voted out 4 years later are we prepared for whatever happens to their system? Someone will come along with more money and buy their way into the White House, under fund the system and then we are in worse shape.
The dream of it sounds good to me, but the reality of it worries me too much. Hey, let the government start small and start a drug company to drive prices down and see how they do. If they do well, let's let them open up a couple hospitals. etc.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pm#28: Why should I care about some foreign debt we've acquired. We can always print more money or simply not pay the debt back. You're afraid someone's going to come in and collect the debt? Who and what army?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pmTanking the economy will also be the legacy of the GOP. We can tell our children that GOP actually stands for "GOPHERS".... As in: Underground Mole, Tunnel Dweller, Pocket (in the pocket of organized crime) Gophers.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:47 pmdon't kid yourself Pocket Gopher! Communist China holds some 40% and rising and absolutely can come in whenever they desire to.
Besides, when you can't find equipment and national guard to come into Kansas following a disaster, what army are you supposing will keep anyone out?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pmah, thank you for one of the central arguments of Republicans, mandolin:
Don't fix things because the presenter has his or her own problems similar to the crisis itself. Your immense negativity is so inspiring and persuasive.
By the way, it's not advice that he's providing, it's documented, not fictional, observation. Watch the film yourself, or do you need your mommy to explain everything to you?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pm#28 It's obvious (and a no brainer) that the GOP cares about nothing but themselves....I never posited that you might give one rat's a$$ about what you're doing to the planet, your children, or future americans. That's a "given" with your twisted party.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmCan you imagine what it would be like if we actually let all the morons in the lower half of the IQ gaussian to actually get raw information and influence the decision making process.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Actually, I can imagine... No George Bush :D
June 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmKucinich , beside being on the good side of all issues, is the only candidate in favor of eliminating health insurance co to a medicare for all. The others talk about health care reform, but still have insurance co. involved in some way in their plan.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmKucinich may gain some leverage after this movie is out there.
#33: We've got plenty of military strength still and we've got a shitload of nukes, too. Large and small. So, I don't see any problem here.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmSicko Mandolin is back.....ditch the thread! He's one broken string.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:51 pmYou’d see the prices drop like the Titanic if/when we have socialized medicine
Well first off I think we use medicine way too much in this country. The amount of kids on Ritalin is sickening to me.
Let the government get a wellness plan working to stop people from getting sick in the first place. They will screw it up just like the old Presidential Physical Fitness standards they put out that didn't change a thing.
I just need to see them get one right before I am trusting in them.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:51 pm#37 Kucinich will, indeed, gain traction following release of Moore's movie. Additionally, if one of the democratic frontrunners began serious discussion of our sicko health care system, they would zoom to the top of the charts handily.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:52 pmBecause the MSM is corporate owned; the day of the truth teller is long gone, thanks to the propaganda/Bushitco regime. No one can go to the MSM for the truth of any situation any longer. That’s why the MSM is quickly becoming a dinosaur in this country. People go to foreign news outlets for the truth about themselves these days….pretty sad that it’s come to this.
Yeah, it is sad that everything actually does have a price... Including our Constitutional freedoms...
People I know are boycotting the “Faux News Stations†and not buying into their scumbag crap any longer. They’re sickos - just like Moore’s new movie.
I deprogrammed my set to skip FAUX, along with all theother channels advertizing similar cheap garbage :D
BIG PHARMA, BIG OIL, AND BIG INSURANCE are running this country now - even King George has been displaced in the mix.
Comment by veritas — June 16, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Absolutely. Have you read anything by Thom Hartman? Corporate Personhood. Until we slay that dragon, it's going to reduce us to medieval serfs and slaves...
June 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#41: If you dems start talking about free health care, we'll win in 2008. Most Americans don't like the idea that they're going to end up paying someone else's medical bill won't go down so well with the independents or even moderate democrats.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pmWOW the poorest british citizen lives longer than the wealthiest american
WOW
June 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pmTundra: A wellness (holistic) plan is good but what does one do when the environment is totally polluted and carcinogenic? Contemporary medicine is the treatment of "defacto" illness and the drug companies are making megabucks on that. There is no doubt that this is necessary but americans are getting raped by paying two to three times more for meds than Canadians. This is totally nonsensical since they are exactly the same pills manufactured by american drug companies who have subsidiaries abroad but the very same quality control. This is amoral.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pmCan you imagine what it would be like if we actually let all the morons in the lower half of the IQ gaussian to actually get raw information and influence the decision making process.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Yeah we need to start having a voting test, f you can't pass you can't vote. That way we can allow a what I will call "Ruling Class" to decide what is best for everyone instead of a democracy. Or the amount your vote counts is based on how well you scored on the test.
/Sarcasm
June 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pmUnbelievable: Yes, I have read Tom Hartman. There are increasing numbers of intelligent people who have this sicko Republican landscape all figured out and are enlightening amazing numbers of americans.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:57 pmlet the health care revolution begin now
AMERICANS WANT ZERO WAITING LISTS LIKE GERMANY AND FRANCE
June 16th, 2007 at 2:57 pm#46: I wouldn't have any problems with such a system. The fact is that we need a way to keep the rabble (who just will never understand the issues) out of the election process.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:57 pmimagine zero waiting lists
your ill your seen straight away and operated on
June 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmThis is totally nonsensical since they are exactly the same pills manufactured by american drug companies who have subsidiaries abroad but the very same quality control.
That's part of my point, the government hasn't done anything about the medicines and I am supposed to say "Here take the entire Healthcare ball of wax"?
June 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pm#46 Make certain that this "voting test" is on the Diebold/ESS/Sequoia hackable voting machine, please! Then we all can pass that test. hahaha! If anyone believes that their vote will not be hacked in 08 , please raise your hand!
June 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmIf Universal Health care became a reality (Just saying if), many people on this board will become as bad as the Republican trolls they hate.
Comment by Tundra — June 16, 2007 @ 2:39 pm
Have you ever heard of Canada?
We're the ONLY industrialized Nation in the world that doesn't have national healthcare. It's been well tested...
June 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmimagine zero waiting lists
your ill your seen straight away and operated on
Comment by Tobey Tall — June 16, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Yeah just like the VA health care system has had since the beginning under any leadership.
Ummmmmm.....Yeah
June 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmhalf a trillion spent on killing Iraqis when that money could be used saving American lifes
Your call
June 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmTundra, Tundra, Tundra....Your assumption is that this group of known criminal thugs will still be running things. Of course, this group of fools haven't done anything; they're all getting kickbacks from Big Pharma. We need to clean the slate in 08 of this dead wood.
And then we need to ensure that intelligent, moral, honest individuals are installed in their stead.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:59 pmWhat is our national debt right now?? Take that money and, instead of using it to kill our own military and 600,000 Iraqis, it would mean FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! OBL was absolutely 100% right - he doesn't have to do a single thing. With Dumbya & Co running things, he can be assured that we'll destroy ourselves.
Truer words were never spoken, as it's turnint out.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:01 pmThe trolls will all attempt to hijack this discussion; however, the facts are in from Canada as well as other countries. The fact that we have citizens without any healthcare qualifies us as a "third world country" right now.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pmHave you ever heard of Canada?
We’re the ONLY industrialized Nation in the world that doesn’t have national healthcare. It’s been well tested…
Comment by unbelievable — June 16, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
Their systems survive because we don't have one. What group of people pays for the research and development of drugs? Americans. Then the drug companies sell them in bulk cheaper to the other countries, and we continue paying for the next one.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pmheres the Amazing bit
I have family travel insurance that covers me worldwide for my family... that includes america ..... up to $10 million dollars per person medical expensis
and it costs me £117 for my family per year -- of 2 adults and 3 children
June 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pmCorporations are the lifeblood of America.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Really? You mean Exxon and Nabisco came over on the Mayflower? How about that...
Idiot.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:03 pmThis is a major "screwjob" on americans - the collusion between BIG PHARMA and BIG INSURANCE. I hope Moore will delve into the fraudulent Insurance Industry soon. What could he call this one? Maybe BIG KATRINA?? OR BIG KAHOONA?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:04 pmHealthcare should be driven by altruism, not capitalism.
Great point. Let's make them non-profit. That should fix that problem :D
I’ll go away now.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 16, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
No, don't...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:05 pmTundra: Sorry to burst your bubble but you are totally wrong on that one! (your premise in #59). We are screwed by the drug companies because the Republicans are allowing it - plain & simple. It has absolutely nothing to do with us paying for anyone else's drugs. I'm beginning to sniff some troll on you, dude.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pmi have a plan, I am going to reclaim my Italian citizenship and move to a country in the EU that actually cares about its citizens.
not has there been, nor will there ever be a candidate that will support a single payer heath care system. It seems powers that be would accept a board of directors of a government panel to make life and death decisions.
never going to happen in the USA
June 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pmThe point to make is that OUR GOVERNMENT should be driven by altruism, too. Instead, it's driven by greed & corruption, lies & deceit. It's prevalent at the top and filters down the food chain, unfortunately.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pmveritas: In other words, you want a weak nanny-state government. No wonder you're posting here.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm37th in the world for healthcare after Costa Rica
come on trolls lets hear ya
were the biggest , largest, smallest, greatest, most selfish country on the goddam planet
CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME
June 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pmCorporations are the lifeblood of America.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
Really? You mean Exxon and Nabisco came over on the Mayflower? How about that…
Idiot.
Comment by unbelievable
GOPcurious just mispoke, unbelievable. What s/he meant to say was, ahem, "Corporations are SUCKING the lifeblood RIGHT OUT of America". See, now it makes sense?
While you're all busy discussing ways to fix America, don't forget to go back and strip corporations of their "rights" as individuals. The so-called "Founding Fathers" were actually very wary of corporations and put strigent legal limits on them in the early days of the Republicâ„¢. Let's go back to those limits...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pmWe are screwed by the drug companies because the Republicans are allowing it
With the Republicans it's all the Islamic Terrorists fault, with you it's all the Republicans fault.
Anyway I look at it, this government or any before it haven't done one good thing at all with healthcare ever.....
Personally I am not prepared to hand them the whole thing, It's like saying "My neighbors kid can fix a bicycle, lets have him work on my plane".
Anywho's that's just my opinion, I am out to enjoy the day, have a good one.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:12 pmHey, dipstick...
When you look at the US Code (look it up), you'll find that many of our laws are purely "political" (any of the "victimless" crimes will do). We have the highest numbers of prisoners of any country in the world. Unless you believe Americans are more prone to criminality than other people, you'll start to understand just who has the greatest number of "political" prisoners on the planet.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:13 pmThe trolls will all attempt to hijack this discussion; however, the facts are in from Canada as well as other countries. The fact that we have citizens without any healthcare qualifies us as a “third world country†right now.
Comment by veritas — June 16, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
But doesn't that mean those "first world" countries should be shellin' out the ca$h?
Hey Canada, where's my Canuck Cheeze, bitches?!?!?!?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pmYou computer gods post way too fast for me to keep up...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pm65 # i have a plan, I am going to reclaim my Italian citizenship and move to a country in the EU that actually cares about its citizens.
Australian, Canadians , British have mutual free care for each others citizens
as does most of Europe these days its free to all Europeans
June 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pmWhy should I care about some foreign debt we’ve acquired. We can always print more money or simply not pay the debt back. You’re afraid someone’s going to come in and collect the debt? Who and what army?
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
No army would be required. Don't pay your debt / interest payments and your dollar will drop faster then the Mexican peso... your dollar will drop faster then it is already. It will quickly become worthless. And while you can play the tough guy & say you don't care, your country will become a wasteland once your dollar is worth a dime. Give a listen to Warren Buffet some time & consider the risk your country is already in because of your huge fiscal deficit, massive debt & trade deficit. All China would have to do is call some debt and your economy would crash. They don't do it because the debt you owe them would become worthless, but they might reconsider in the future and decide it's worth doing. You're on a precipice and you're too stupid to recognize it.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pmveritas: In other words, you want a weak nanny-state government. No wonder you’re posting here.
Comment by GOPcurious
And what would you prefer, GOPcurious, a strong, manly father figure to tell you what to do all the time?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pm"Most Americans don’t like the idea that they’re going to end up paying someone else’s medical bill won’t go down so well with the independents or even moderate democrats.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:54 pm"
So tell me genius, who pays the bills for the uninsured now? You know, like the one for the guy who couldn't afford to go to the doctor for a $40 pnuemonia shot or buy antibiotics when he started to get sick so he ends up in the hospital for a $30K stay?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmHave you read anything by Thom Hartman? Corporate Personhood.
Comment by unbelievable — June 16, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Is that "Gangs of America" (or some similar title)? I read a little of it on another website, where it discussed what Thomas Jefferson had to say about corporations, warning that they should NOT be allowed to have influence on government. Amazing how prescient he was--what a genius!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmTheir systems survive because we don’t have one.
That's absolutely ridiculous.
What group of people pays for the research and development of drugs? Americans. Then the drug companies sell them in bulk cheaper to the other countries, and we continue paying for the next one.
Comment by Tundra — June 16, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
This is the beauty of community based thought - share teh costs all around and by and large it will still be cheaper for everyone.
Though, I hat eto burst your bubble, but the BIG PHARMA has cut significantly back on R&D due to the fact that it's cheaper to sell more of teh drugs they produce than tomake new ones.
There currently exists a cure for cancer. You know what's blocking it from reaching the masses? Yep - BIG PHARMA.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pmComment by Dave C
Or have the rest of the world abandon the dollar and go to the Euro.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:20 pmOr have the rest of the world abandon the dollar and go to the Euro.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
That's already happening, or about to. There's a reason the Cdn & US $ are almost at par.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:21 pmI’m beginning to sniff some troll on you, dude.
Comment by veritas — June 16, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Tundra's a conservative Libertarian who served in the Marines.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pm#75: I'd think that crashing our economy would be viewed as an attack on our strategic assets - something that is a very, very unwise thing to do to a country with nuclear arsenal.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pmThe so-called “Founding Fathers†were actually very wary of corporations and put strigent legal limits on them in the early days of the Republic™. Let’s go back to those limits…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
If Jefferson had gotten his way, there would have been an Amendment limiting corporation power... That man was presciently brilliant beyond his age (and ours)...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pmThat’s already happening, or about to. There’s a reason the Cdn & US $ are almost at par.
Comment by Dave C
Yeah, I've been reading about htis for a while. I'm not sure people understand the consequences of this, should it happen completely. I am ASTONISHED the Brush Admin would so willingly sell so much debt to the Chinese. Are these people insane or what?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm#77: I never said that the system we have now is perfect. For instance, what is that guy in your example doing in the hospital anyway if he can't afford it.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pmGOPcurious, your govt is crashing your economy. If China needs the funds they can call the debt. The fact that that causes your economy pain is your own doing, no one else's. I also doubt that the U.S. is about to attack China. They're currently being overwhelmed in the streets of Iraq. For all of the huffing & puffing about attacking Iran right now, the world is snickering while they are being held back by insurgents in Iraq. You might think that nukes are your salvation but they're all a bluff. Use them at your own peril. Only a madman would nuke another country for asking the U.S. to pay back their debt. GWB is such a madman but his time is limited... your family's share of the U.S. debt will outlive him by decades. Enjoy your small govt brought to you by the the Republican party.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pmHey Canada, where’s my Canuck Cheeze, bitches?!?!?!?
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 16, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Relax Santo... You're getting a bit too obvious again.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pmLet the government get a wellness plan working to stop people from getting sick in the first place.
Comment by Tundra — June 16, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
A wellness (holistic) plan is good but what does one do when the environment is totally polluted and carcinogenic?
Comment by veritas — June 16, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Not to mention medical care for such things as broken bones. Accidents do happen (I've had a couple of broken bones in the last few years, and we wouldn't have been able to afford the bills without coverage.)
June 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pm“Most Americans don’t like the idea that they’re going to end up paying someone else’s medical bill won’t go down so well with the independents or even moderate democrats.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 2:54 pmâ€
I would hate to live in such a selfish society wow , I just cant even begin to imagine your mentality , charity begins at home
you are more than willing to pay tax to destroy life than help life
shocked by your greed
June 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pmYes. lets all take healthcare advice from a 500 lb man with 15 pounds of fat around his heart.
Comment by mandolin
Beats taking advice from a troll w/ 15 lbs of shit between his ears.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pmAnd what would you prefer, GOPcurious, a strong, manly father figure to tell you what to do all the time?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
He just got wood over that...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm#77: I never said that the system we have now is perfect. For instance, what is that guy in your example doing in the hospital anyway if he can’t afford it.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
You'd let people die just because they contracted an illness through no fault of their own? You're one sick bastard.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pmAnd what would you prefer, GOPcurious, a strong, manly father figure to tell you what to do all the time?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
He wants one that smells like Fred Thompson.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:30 pm#75: I’d think that crashing our economy would be viewed as an attack on our strategic assets - something that is a very, very unwise thing to do to a country with nuclear arsenal.
Comment by GOPcurious
It's called a "Phyrric victory", stupid. Learn to read. We all will suffer in a nuclear winter. Primus Inter Pares, you've studied the classics, explain to this idiot what a "Phyrric victory" is.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pm#90: I've never seen why asking people to take care of themselves is being selfish. I don't want to pay someone else's medical bills, because I've made sure I can afford treatment for myself. Sure all that saving is cutting into my standard of living right now, but still I would find it appallingly humiliating to ask someone else to cover my bills.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:32 pmHe wants one that smells like Fred Thompson.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Ewww... my breakfast just voted on a deadline for complete withdrawal. Thanks alot, Jane.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pm"For instance, what is that guy in your example doing in the hospital anyway if he can’t afford it.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:26 pm"
So he should die in the street eh? Ahhh, the republican vision for America, the compasion of it all, it's beautiful thing isn't it? Really brings a tear to your eye.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmYou’d let people die just because they contracted an illness through no fault of their own? You’re one sick bastard.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
The GOP mantra: "Ah, f**k 'em."
June 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pmits quite clear the trolls would rather their taxdollar be spent on grenades or landmines to kill foreigners than help a fellow America in need
the 28% are all like that -
these people are like energy stealers - they get high by seeing people down
June 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pmbut still I would find it appallingly humiliating to ask someone else to cover my bills.
Comment by GOPcurious
I agree completely. That's why I intend to lie down and die right there on the sidewalk when the time comes... it's The American Thing To DOâ„¢!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Sorry, TROS, I couldn't help myself. Anyway, I'm just popping in during the rain delay at the Mets/Yankees game, so I'll try not to gross you out again! :-D
June 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmIs that “Gangs of America†(or some similar title)? I read a little of it on another website, where it discussed what Thomas Jefferson had to say about corporations, warning that they should NOT be allowed to have influence on government. Amazing how prescient he was–what a genius!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 16, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
It was actually a political comic book (I forgot the name) that I didn't realize was a comic book until I received it. I think he was trying to reach a younger audience with it.
I totally agree. Jefferson is my American Idol :D It's too bad he never wrote books like Thomas Paine did. It would be nice to have volumes of his wisdom around for reference. Such unparalleled brilliance.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm#101: No. Planning ahead and taking care of yourself is the American Thing to Do.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:36 pmI’ve made sure I can afford treatment for myself. Sure all that saving is cutting into my standard of living right now, but still I would find it appallingly humiliating to ask someone else to cover my bills.
Comment by GOPcurious
I highly doubt that. Simply operations in the U.S. cost 10's of thousands of $$$. Get some dread disease and you'd be wiped out in a week. What you've done is saved enough for the medical care you currently need, not the potential medical care in the future. I'm guessing the second you get cancer metastasizing throughout your body you sing a different tune. It's shameful for the healthy to mock the sick.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pmFor instance, what is that guy in your example doing in the hospital anyway if he can’t afford it.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
That was QJ's point - you're paying more for it in the long run by not paying for a smaller cure in the beginning.
Though, heartless one, he is physically there because of the Hippocratic oath and laws that follow it...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pmEnjoy your small govt brought to you by the the Republican party.
Comment by Dave C — June 16, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Touche!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pm#105: No. Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. I put about one third of my monthly salary in that fund for several years.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm#101: No. Planning ahead and taking care of yourself is the American Thing to Do.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
Damn, I knew that Wayne and I should have planned ahead when that guy in the van fell asleep at the wheel and rammed us into the car in front of us while stopped on the exit ramp! Man, who knew that I could have avoided that somehow!
You've got to be the stupidest f*ckhead troll ever.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pm96 # I don’t want to pay someone else’s medical bills, because I’ve made sure I can afford treatment for myself.
so I suggest you tell your Goverment of the US that you dont want your taxdollars paying for grenades, rockets or landmines and would prefer they use your taxdollar to pay for fellow American citizens healthcare
wait a few years till you get a tumor , they cut it out and tell you your insurance costs quadruple so now you cant afford insurance any more - - your arguement is non nonsensical - or stupid as they come
June 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmSorry, TROS, I couldn’t help myself. Anyway, I’m just popping in during the rain delay at the Mets/Yankees game, so I’ll try not to gross you out again! :-D
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Just out of curiosity, are you for the Mets or the Yankees? Inquiring minds need to know.
Actually, managed health care has worked fine for me... I'm too SCARED to get sick! Badda-bing! (Rimshot!!) (Wild applause...)
Thank you, thank you, you've been a wonderful audience!! You're sure you don't want a door prize?
Ladies and germs, The Republic of Stupidityâ„¢ has left the house!!!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmNo. Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. I put about one third of my monthly salary in that fund for several years.
Thank you. You've just proved my point. $43k would probably last a week recovery after a simple operation. Good luck to you, hope you stay healthy.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmBeats taking advice from a troll w/ 15 lbs of shit between his ears.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
Precisely why I don't drink anything while reading the comments. Freaking hilarious!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pmPRIMVS INTER PARES, and mandolin:
I suppose neither of you saw Moore when he was on The Tonight Show. There, he talked about how he has been working hard to get healthy. Taking a walk every day, discovering fruit, etc.
To everyone:
Uhh... did Moore really say he went to ALL the major insurance companies?! He said none of them would insure the film.. that they ALL TURNED HIM DOWN.
My question is... why did Moore ask to be insured by the same people he wants to take down? I don't get it. Was it to prove a point, or was he REALLY trying to get the insurance from them? This will be extremely hypocritical if it turns out he really was looking for insurance from them.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:42 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
METS! Hope they don't call the game on accounta rain, as my guys are currently down by a couple of runs!
June 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm#105: No. Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. I put about one third of my monthly salary in that fund for several years.
Comment by GOPcurious
Right... saving up money for that "stickendectomy" you're going to need someday.
(A "stickendectomy" is that operation where they go and remove the stick stuck up your ass...)
June 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pmYou’ve got to be the stupidest f*ckhead troll ever.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Whoa, that's a bold statement, Jane, considering some of the other statements I've seen posted here.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:46 pm#112: I know that perfectly well. As I said, it is an emergency fund. Major funds will, of course, come from the insurance I've bought.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pm#110: Why would I want to tell my government to stop using my money on our military? I want a strong military.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pmGOPcurious - your emergency fund is at about $43000 - so it runs out would you like everyperson in the US to chip in 1 cent to save your life or NOT
$43000 - pretty pathetic which finger would you like sown back on ...ha ha ha ha.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pmI’ve never seen why asking people to take care of themselves is being selfish.
Let's put this into perspective. You live in a city or town that was developed because pervious citizens paid taxes so that systems such as roads, water, sewer, gargabe collection, electrity plants, farms, groceries stores and so on would be available to all. They knew that there was no way every person could individually achieve these things, so they collectively contributed, through taxes, and you have the benefit of their investment. Therefore, YOU are not taking acre of yourself either. You've relied on the wealth of previous generations.
I don’t want to pay someone else’s medical bills, because I’ve made sure I can afford treatment for myself.
Well, what if we never built hospitals in the first place? You can't overlook the fact that you CAN'T afford medical treatment without the collective efforts of the country... So why would you deny the same to someone else?
You're just a medical disaster away from bankruptcy yourself... And then what will you do if you were then treated as you now wish to treat others?
Sure all that saving is cutting into my standard of living right now, but still I would find it appallingly humiliating to ask someone else to cover my bills.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Then stop looking at it that way. There are no individuals in a system. That's a good thing. Stop knocking it...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pmMETS! Hope they don’t call the game on accounta rain, as my guys are currently down by a couple of runs!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
HAH! Another Mets fan. Ya know, I listened to every last pitch of Tom Seaver's near perfecto against the Cubbies way back when! I lived w/ a little cheap transistor radio glued to the side of my head that summer.
Last 2 weeks have been a little hard, huh?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:48 pm"Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:40 pm"
Hope you've got good insurance to go with that bonehead. I recently had a heart attack, and was in the hospital 3 days for a total of $72K - for the hospital alone.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pmMETS! Hope they don’t call the game on accounta rain, as my guys are currently down by a couple of runs!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
I was counting on them to give the Wankees another beating. Hmmm.... Tommy Glavine gave up seven runs? That sucks.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pmNO DEBATE ABOUT AMERICAN HEALTHCARE IS COMPLETE WITHOUT DISCUSSING THE CADILLAC OF NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PROGRAMS...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pmISRAEL'S NATIONAL HEALTH.
Check it out. Israel has the best national healthcare program in the world.
#121: You're completely ignoring the role of corporations in your little story. You're making it sound like your friendly little nanny-state government has made all the good things in life. Wrong. Corporations and good old fashioned greed is behind most of it. The only good role for a centralized government is providing security for a functioning economy which, in turn, will provide jobs and the necessary services like health care.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pmWhoa, that’s a bold statement, Jane, considering some of the other statements I’ve seen posted here.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:46 pm
I'm in a "superlative" mood today.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pmGOPcurious - your emergency fund is at about $43000
Im insured and my whole family for America/worldwide for $10 million each
and it cost be £117 per year or about $200 to you
http://www.insureandgo.com
Annual Multitrip . . My card is Black the best one £117 per year
June 16th, 2007 at 3:53 pmits quite clear the trolls would rather their taxdollar be spent on grenades or landmines to kill foreigners than help a fellow America in need
these people are like energy stealers - they get high by seeing people down
Comment by Tobey Tall
That's not totally ture, Tobey. they also want some cluster bombs disguised as small toys (to get the kiddies) and don't forget the napalm.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning...
June 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pmHAH! Another Mets fan. Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Whew! I was afraid that you were going to say that you were a Yankees fan. Yeah, the last two weeks HAVE sucked out loud.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pmMORE:
1) Moore is the first Liberal to make a case FOR Gitmo! Here we are trying to shut it down because of the terrible treatment, but apparently they are our playing soccer, and getting all the health care they need!
2) Moore thinks that if we can give free healthcare to Gitmo inmates, it should be no problem to do the same for EVERYONE in America. But here is a news flash.... there are waaaaaaay more people in America then there are in Gitmo. Plus, a lot of the time, it's the pathetic American's faults for getting sick, when they choose to eat crap, and live crap lives.
After just a few clips, I'm already this mad about Moore's film. I used to love Moore. But man.... uch. It's not the same anymore.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pmWell first off I think we use medicine way too much in this country. The amount of kids on Ritalin is sickening to me.
Let the government get a wellness plan working to stop people from getting sick in the first place. They will screw it up just like the old Presidential Physical Fitness standards they put out that didn’t change a thing.
I just need to see them get one right before I am trusting in them.
Comment by Tundra
So correct. The pharmaceuticals are making a fortune - that is another scandal in itself as doesn't the FDA also regulate the drug industry? How many diseases can be prevented if our food was pure? Example - I know of a person who suffered from restless leg syndrome - a very aggravating problem that does not allow one to sleep at night. As soon as diet soda and other junk was eliminated from the diet the problem went away. The pharmacy industry now has a "drug" out there to ease RLS, but I wonder how many others would have this ailment and so many other problems if the food was pure. Is
June 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pmthe FDA making a fortune for the drug industry by not properly telling the truth ?
125 # Check it out. Israel has the best national healthcare program in the world.
please provide a link
Germany and France have the best health care - I bet you - - - zero waiting lists
June 16th, 2007 at 3:55 pm#75: I’d think that crashing our economy would be viewed as an attack on our strategic assets - something that is a very, very unwise thing to do to a country with nuclear arsenal.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Guess what genius, China ALSO has a nuclear arsenal, as does Russia
The US launches ANY nuclear missiles, what makes you think Russia and China will just allow it to happen with no cost for W and the rest of us to pay?
June 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pmTommy Glavine gave up seven runs? That sucks.
Comment by gummitch — June 16, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Yeah, it doesn't help when you let the leadoff hitter get on in every inning.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pmThe only good role for a centralized government is providing security for a functioning economy which, in turn, will provide jobs and the necessary services like health care.
Comment by GOPcurious
Hmmm, reading more fairy tales I see. Apparently you LIKE living in a corporatocracy, or an oligarchy, or a kleptocracy, whichever you prefer.
I can imagine you also like wearing a bowtie, in honor of George Will, too.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pmTommy Glavine gave up seven runs? That sucks.
Comment by gummitch — June 16, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Yeah, it doesn’t help when you let the leadoff hitter get on in every inning.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
A rough patch, guys. This too will pass.
(Hmmm... isn't that what KKKarl said about Jeff Gannon's wrist watch?)
June 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm"I would find it appallingly humiliating to ask someone else to cover my bills.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:32 pm"
Good, we'll tell your insurer not to expect a claim then.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pmGummitch, TROS, it's now 8-5 Yanks, Mets batting. See you later.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:01 pm#137: Sure it would be humiliating, but having the health care bought from and delivered by a corporation is at least palatable. A government racket like taxation for free health care for all is an obscenity.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pm#133: Exactly. The mutual assured destruction doctrine will prevent the China from seriously harming our economy by crashing it. They crash our economy, we retaliate this attack with nukes and the world dies. Nobody wants that, so therefore it is in China's best interests not to crash our economy even if we won't pay back our debt.
See?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pm#137: Sure it would be humiliating, but having the health care bought from and delivered by a corporation is at least palatable. A government racket like taxation for free health care for all is an obscenity.
Who said anything about FREE healthcare? What about AFFORDABLE (NOT-FOR-PROFIT) healthcare? Like in the old days, B.R. (Before Reagan...), when hospitals weren't run FOR PROFIT alone and doctors were doctors so they could, ya know, HEAL the sick, and not become corporations, like Bill Frist.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:05 pmI recently had a heart attack,
Holy sh!t !! Sorry to hear that. Obviously you're better now... Good thing :D
and was in the hospital 3 days for a total of $72K - for the hospital alone.
Comment by Quadrajet — June 16, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
THAT is ridiculous! What a rip off!
June 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmA government racket like taxation for free health care for all is an obscenity.
theres plenty of good healthcare models that work, I dare say America will choose the right one when it gets a true leader
June 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pm#139 - You're paying for it anyway bozo, at a much higher cost. I know you don't get it, poor thing.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pm#133: Exactly. The mutual assured destruction doctrine will prevent the China from seriously harming our economy by crashing it. They crash our economy, we retaliate this attack with nukes and the world dies. Nobody wants that, so therefore it is in China’s best interests not to crash our economy even if we won’t pay back our debt.
See?
Comment by GOPcurious
Gosh, you're so cool. First you rag on poor people who can't afford health care (like you, you cool GOPer, you) and then you turn around and advocate for the US becoming the biggest financial deadbeat in the world. Hmmm, is that really any different from poor people who run up medical bills they can't afford to pay?
BTW, the Chinese won't have to crash our economy. America's CEOâ„¢ is well on his way to doing it. The Chinese high command has GOT to be laughing their collective asses off at this point.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pmfor christs sake even a dog found in the streets of Europe probably gets better health care than an American with no money
When America chooses a leader thats caring things will change for the better, theres a vast array of health care systems worldwide that work
June 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pmI hate to leave all this fun and games, but gotta run. The rest of you, good luck in knocking some sense into GOPcurious.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pmI know I said I said I would go away, but I have to send my compliments to unbelievable for her post at #121. Well said! Nicely put.
Conservatives simply do not appreciate, nor will they acknowledge, that the quality of life they enjoy today is because of what liberals have fought for and conservatives opposed. They pride themselves on their "independence", never realizing that even the simple act of driving to work so they can earn their livelihood would not be possible without the collective will of all of us.
If they think they can be so independent of the rest of us, then they should go to the desert and live out there, away from "civilization" and all those pesky, needful, other human beings.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pm#143: Sure it "works". The government takes your money basically at a gun-point and uses it to cover the cost of treating people you don't even know. Americans will not tolerate that kind of socialism.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:10 pmYou’re completely ignoring the role of corporations in your little story.
Because they are only a modern assertion, so you cannot take them into consideration until you get to superfluous things like skyscrapers.
You’re making it sound like your friendly little nanny-state government has made all the good things in life. Wrong. Corporations and good old fashioned greed is behind most of it.
Bullshit. Those things are the result of TAXES. And who pays the majority of taxes? The middle class. And who collects the taxes? The Government. And who builds these infrastructure? Again - the government.
The only good role for a centralized government is providing security for a functioning economy which, in turn, will provide jobs and the necessary services like health care.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
I cannot believe that you forgot your favorite role of the government - MILITARY!!! WAR!!! BOMBS!!!
June 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pm#145: What do I care if some European or Chinese bozo loses money? I care only about what's mine.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pmComment by unbelievable — June 16, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Thanks UB, much better now. How are you my friend? Yes, the cost is completely insane. $9000 a day for the room and didn't see a nurse unless I got bored and wiggled the wires on my chest to simulate another attack. No open bar, no digital cable, nothing. You're right, GOPheartless is one medical disaster away from wipeout, and then he'll be singing a different toon, hehehehehe. They always do.....
June 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pm2 fatties talking about healthcare...I wonder what the Twinkies are doing to their health.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pm#150: What are you talking about? I didn't forget about the military. I mentioned "security", didn't I? At least try reading my posts if you're replying to them.
"Bullshit. Those things are the result of TAXES. And who pays the majority of taxes? The middle class. And who collects the taxes? The Government. And who builds these infrastructure? Again - the government."
That's the way how it is now - we've got big government that's got its hands on everything. When the America was born the government was weak and the local infrastructure was built and maintained by private enterprise. That's the way it should be today, too.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pmA government racket like taxation for free health care for all is an obscenity.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
So you'll stop using the hospitals then as well? Because your money isn't covering the construction costs of the hospital you'll be using - just the care you'll receive in it...
June 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pm#155: Nope. Hospitals are corporations and they'll recover the costs.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:17 pmI hate to leave all this fun and games, but gotta run. The rest of you, good luck in knocking some sense into GOPcurious.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
It will be difficult. He wants his healthcare to come from a corporation, an entity, according to the late Milton Friedman, whose sole responsibility is to earn a profit for its shareholders.
In other words, he would rather get his healthcare from someone who wants to make as much money as possible off him than from someone who went in to medicine because they care about healing the sick and comforting the dying.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pmfor christs sake even a dog found in the streets of Europe probably gets better health care than an American with no money
Comment by Tobey Tall — June 16, 2007 @ 4:09 pm
So does a dog in America. My friends and I were just discussing the other day how the fact that veternarians are largely still mom and pop shops of doctors who love animals, that our pets currently get better health care than we do. It's hard to find a quack vet... Though I'm sure this will change as the greedy pigs are starting to capitalize on pets now too.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pmI’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
The problem in this country with healthcare is not that it costs too much, it’s that they charge too much. Healthcare should be driven by altruism, not capitalism.
I’ll go away now.
Easy for you to say when you're not an investor in the industry.
Gotta love liberal 'compassion'. I don't want to help the poor, I want the 'rich' to help the poor.
No thanks!
June 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pmIt will be difficult. He wants his healthcare to come from a corporation, an entity, according to the late Milton Friedman, whose sole responsibility is to earn a profit for its shareholders.
In other words, he would rather get his healthcare from someone who wants to make as much money as possible off him than from someone who went in to medicine because they care about healing the sick and comforting the dying.
Absolutely.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:21 pm#157: That's actually a pretty good summary. I have seriously hard time trusting a person who's motivated by altruism. It's just not natural.
Sure they'd want to get as much money out of me as possible, but I've got no problem negotiating contracts and playing service provides against each other. That's the way the markets work.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:22 pmAbsolutely.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
You do realize, don't you, that the healthcare you'll get from them will be worse than the healthcare you'll get from someone who actually gives a shit whether you live or die? The people you would rather go to just might decide that your particualr illness would not be profitable for them to treat, and so they'll let you die or suffer needlessly.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:24 pmIf they think they can be so independent of the rest of us, then they should go to the desert and live out there, away from “civilization†and all those pesky, needful, other human beings.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 16, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Thanks Wayne, but the honor belongs to George Lakoff who suggested we educate trolls to understand that taxes have a very valid purpose for establishing and maintaining our way of life.
Personally, I'd love to see the cons just go camping for a week in teh desert with nothing but the skin they showed up in :D
June 16th, 2007 at 4:24 pmSocialism is an economic failure everywhere it's tried. It can succeed for a few decades more or less depending on circumstances but in the end either it must be reversed or the goverment must implement measures which in effect enslave all its citizens. The European and Canadians are struggling with the threat of economic collapse as the populations age and cost of universal health care and other government become exessive.
Because of its socialist policies unemployment has been a major problem throughout Europe averaging around 11%. With the formation of the EU it took a dive to 8% but that boost to its economy has past and the decline has leveled off. In France, Germany, Spain and Italy it remains at nearly 11% off from highs of nearly 20%.
There are many problems with socialized health care the greatest of which is that it empowers government and politicians which as you should have learned from the present congress cannot be trusted no matter what side of the political divide they profess to represent.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:25 pmA government racket like taxation for free health care for all is an obscenity.
theres plenty of good healthcare models that work, I dare say America will choose the right one when it gets a true leader
Comment by Tobey Tall
Kucinich has the right plan - medicare for all. Instead of paying insurance companies - or paying the middle man - eliminate the insurance companies and pay directly to the medical industry. Now as it stands, an average family of 4 pays 12,000 to 18,000 a year to the insurance industry, an industry that does not always grant the right kind of care. What does medicare cost?...50$ a month a person - high risk and elderly, for coverage. This whole thing of paying obscene amounts to insurance companies so they can dictate to physicians of what care is to be given is insane. From what we have been paying for with the US led invasion/massacre all could have been covered with health care. Bernie Ward on kgo.com talks about this.... Kucinich is for this.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:26 pm12,000 a year die because of no health care coverage. These are the working class, not the disabled or elderly as they have medicare.
I care only about what’s mine.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
We noticed. And when it comes back to bite you one day, remember this conversation...
June 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pmYou do realize, don’t you, that the healthcare you’ll get from them will be worse than the healthcare you’ll get from someone who actually gives a shit whether you live or die? The people you would rather go to just might decide that your particualr illness would not be profitable for them to treat, and so they’ll let you die or suffer needlessly.
Says who?
Tell me, Wayne, are you in the healthcare industry? Do you have investments in the healthcare industry?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:28 pmKucinich has the right plan - medicare for all. Instead of paying insurance companies - or paying the middle man - eliminate the insurance companies and pay directly to the medical industry. Now as it stands, an average family of 4 pays 12,000 to 18,000 a year to the insurance industry, an industry that does not always grant the right kind of care. What does medicare cost?…50$ a month a person - high risk and elderly, for coverage. This whole thing of paying obscene amounts to insurance companies so they can dictate to physicians of what care is to be given is insane.
That's an absurd lie. Medicare spends $8000 per year per person covered. The care receiver might not be paying much, but somebody has to.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:31 pm#157: That’s actually a pretty good summary. I have seriously hard time trusting a person who’s motivated by altruism. It’s just not natural.
Sure they’d want to get as much money out of me as possible, but I’ve got no problem negotiating contracts and playing service provides against each other. That’s the way the markets work.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
What the hell is wrong with you? We wouldn't even be here today if not for the altruism of others. Altruism is a perfectly natural thing among civilized, social creatures (like humans). In fact, civilizations would never have come into being if not for the fact that people got together and said, "We're stronger and better when we work together to solve our problems than when we struggle to solve them alone."
And what if you were critically injured in an accident? Do you think you'll be able to negotiate with service providers when you're comatose in a hospital? And, assuming you even had the time to negotiate with providers, what if every service provider you went to wanted ten times what it actually cost them to treat you? You're actually okay with that?
Well, for your sake, I hope you never have to have the kind of medical care that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and for which the insurance company would only pay half.
I think your core set of beliefs begins with too many ill-informed thoughts. But if you don't like humanity so much, why not just go away from it?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:33 pmThanks UB, much better now.
So glad to hear it. Stay that 'better' way, okay? :D
How are you my friend?
Oh, as much of a pain in the ass as usual :D A friend of mine says that atleast I have no dull moments. I'm good. Thanks for asking.
Yes, the cost is completely insane. $9000 a day for the room and didn’t see a nurse unless I got bored and wiggled the wires on my chest to simulate another attack.
Please tell me you're joking...
No open bar, no digital cable, nothing.
LOL
You’re right, GOPheartless is one medical disaster away from wipeout, and then he’ll be singing a different toon, hehehehehe. They always do…..
Comment by Quadrajet — June 16, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
I seriously wonder if homo sapiens sapiens will one day be the common ancestor to the even larger brained ape that we evolve into, and the extinct brainless shit-eating monkey that he devolved into? :D
June 16th, 2007 at 4:33 pmNo. Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. I put about one third of my monthly salary in that fund for several years.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
Ok, either you're lying or just an incredibly unsophisticated investory. Interest rates are so low right now, they're barely covering the cost of inflation. So good luck on "growing" your investment using interest bearing investment vehicles. My guess is that your so-called nestegg is ficticious. But if it's not...
What do I care if some European or Chinese bozo loses money? I care only about what’s mine.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Hopefully whoever/whatever is paying you interest feels the same way & reneges on whatever debt instrument is paying you interest. After all, why should they care about you? They only care about what's theirs. What goes around comes around. Karma is a strange thing. But I'm still betting that you'd be hard pressed to come up with 43¢, let alone $43k.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:35 pmBullshit. Those things are the result of TAXES. And who pays the majority of taxes? The middle class. And who collects the taxes? The Government. And who builds these infrastructure? Again - the government.
Actually, no, it's the top 10% that pays the majority of income taxes.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pmWhat are you talking about? I didn’t forget about the military. I mentioned “securityâ€, didn’t I? At least try reading my posts if you’re replying to them.
'Security' is defensive. I'm talking about your offensive love for pre-emptive invasions of sovereign nations for the benefit of the American Empire. Try to keep up...
That’s the way how it is now - we’ve got big government that’s got its hands on everything.
Bush grew the government that Clinton had reduced. Take it up with Bush.
When the America was born the government was weak and the local infrastructure was built and maintained by private enterprise. That’s the way it should be today, too.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Private enterprise? Are you delirious? It was built by the blood, sweat and tears of those who worked hard to survive. Just watch any valid movie about how hard it was to start from scratch here for the settlers, and then answer my question about how are you going to get medical care without that hospital that someone else's tax dollars funded...
June 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pmso I suggest you tell your Goverment of the US that you dont want your taxdollars paying for grenades, rockets or landmines and would prefer they use your taxdollar to pay for fellow American citizens healthcare
Government military spending is at one of its lowest points in history, even including the Iraq supplementals.
We should go back to John Kennedy type defense spending of 8-9% of GDP.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pmNo, neither. What does that have to do with anyting? I'm not an investor because I have a little something called "morals". Perhaps you've heard others speak of them.
The care receiver might not be paying much, but somebody has to.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Only because someone else wants to charge them as much as possible, even if it's way more than the cost to them.
Personally, I think that being a pure capitalist is a mental illness. Does your insurance cover mental illnesses?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pm"I seriously wonder if homo sapiens sapiens will one day...
Comment by unbelievable — June 16, 2007 @ 4:33 pm"
Bwahahahaha, now you've done it! You've written the word 'homo' effectively beetle-juicing Daryll, and called MA by name with the 'brainless shiteating monkeys' bit....
June 16th, 2007 at 4:42 pmUniversal health care may be of better quality...as the profit will/should be gone, you will not have insurance companies denying coverage. For the most part, those receiving medicare are happy with it - want no change with it.
Profiteering from medical care gets ugly in many ways. Nurses need to make a quota, too many unneeded treatments....Those who now work in the industry know exactly what I am talking about.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:43 pmHospitals are corporations and they’ll recover the costs.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Some of them are NOW, but they always weren't.
If you use them, then you admit that you are not truly self-sustaining, but relying on the support of others.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:43 pmGovernment military spending is at one of its lowest points in history, even including the Iraq supplementals.
Only on the basis of % of GDP.
Linking military spending to the GDP is an argument frequently made by supporters of higher military budgets. Comparing military spending (or any other spending for that matter) to the GDP tells you how large a burden such spending puts on the US economy, but it tells you nothing about the burden a $440 billion military budget puts on U.S. taxpayers. Our economy may be able to bear higher military spending, but the question today is whether current military spending levels are necessary and whether these funds are going towards the proper priorities. Further, such comparisons are only made when the economy is healthy. It is unlikely that those arguing that military spending should be a certain portion of GDP would continue to make this case if the economy suddenly weakened, thus requiring dramatic cuts in the military. - Chris Hellman
June 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pmI gotta run for a minute...
June 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pmNo. Currently my medical emergency fund is at about $43000 and is growing interest. I put about one third of my monthly salary in that fund for several years.
Comment by GOPcurious
Well that should cover one gall bladder surgery. You do have health insurance, don't you?
June 16th, 2007 at 4:50 pmBravo to Moore and I intend to see his new movie > SICKO.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:12 pm#177
When the economy weakens, I don't hear liberals crying cut cuts to Medicare/Caid/Social Security. Nope, they still get their COLA advances. Why should the military be any different?
$440 billion is easily affordable by the ~60% of the nation that actually pays income taxes.
The founding fathers realized the need for a strong defense and explicitly charged Congress with maintaining an army and a navy.
The first 41 Presidents realized the need for a strong defense and maintained appropriate military budgets. Then Bill Clinton came in and gutted the armed forces repeatedly over the course of 8 years.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:20 pmOnly because someone else wants to charge them as much as possible, even if it’s way more than the cost to them.
Personally, I think that being a pure capitalist is a mental illness. Does your insurance cover mental illnesses?
What industry do you work in, and do you charge "as much as possible" for your labor?
June 16th, 2007 at 5:21 pmI have seriously hard time trusting a person who’s motivated by altruism. It’s just not natural.
Comment by GOPcurious — June 16, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Are you serious? That's just sociopathic to think such a thing. Are you psychotic? Seriously, I'm not insulting you. That is not something a normal human being says, much less believes.
Perhaps you should break open your $43 dollar saving account and spend it on a doctor visit. Good thing for you, very few people feel as you do and there will be a nurturing doctor there to heal you.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pmTo those who think having private insurance is security:
Many years ago while in college I worked as a medical claims examiner, and during that time I had the sad task of telling many people that their lifetime payment limits had been reached while they were still in the hospital bed.
You only have to read a typical health insurance policy's lifetime limits, to realize just how INSECURE you are!
Medicare for everyone is the only answer!
June 16th, 2007 at 5:46 pmActually, no, it’s the top 10% that pays the majority of income taxes.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Nonsense... That lie doesn't work around here. We know that they get it back, meaning that they don't pay into the system and it stays there...
June 16th, 2007 at 5:49 pm#185
Facts hurt, eh?
June 16th, 2007 at 5:50 pmBwahahahaha, now you’ve done it! You’ve written the word ‘homo’ effectively beetle-juicing Daryll, and called MA by name with the ‘brainless shiteating monkeys’ bit….
Comment by Quadrajet — June 16, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
Damn...
You're too funny :D
June 16th, 2007 at 5:53 pm#184
Good luck trying to collect $1 trillion for Medicare for "everyone". You'll need it!
June 16th, 2007 at 5:55 pmFacts hurt, eh?
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
I love facts - reality having a liberal bias and all... You just haven't provided any.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:55 pmGood luck trying to collect $1 trillion for Medicare for “everyoneâ€. You’ll need it! Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
So your *premise* is that it would cost the same to provide yearly health care as it does for the "elderly"? BAHAHA, what a st*pid little c*nt you are! By the way, the folks receiving that 8k a year healthcare have *paid* their lifetime medicare *health-insurance* for the *right* to receive their healthcare. I'm sure you're *opposed* to health insurance systems, like medicare. But lucky for this country, not everyone is as st*pid or as short sighted, and incapable of recognizing a *fact* as you are - c*nt!
June 16th, 2007 at 5:59 pm#189
No, you just dismissed them with utterly false assertions that the rich somehow "get their money back".
They're not like welfare recipients, who don't pay a cent in and leech hundreds of dollars out.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:00 pmActually, no, it’s the top 10% that pays the majority of income taxes. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
How *convenient* that you only mention *income* taxes. Forget the payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, etc. that the *poor* pay disproportionately. You're a st*pid little c*nt - how do you get out of bed without the help of *elder-care*? c*nt?
June 16th, 2007 at 6:01 pmSo your *premise* is that it would cost the same to provide yearly health care as it does for the “elderly� BAHAHA, what a st*pid little c*nt you are! By the way, the folks receiving that 8k a year healthcare have *paid* their lifetime medicare *health-insurance* for the *right* to receive their healthcare. I’m sure you’re *opposed* to health insurance systems, like medicare. But lucky for this country, not everyone is as st*pid or as short sighted, and incapable of recognizing a *fact* as you are - c*nt!
If healthcare is free, I'll make sure to suck out my $8k, plus a bit extra.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:01 pmHow *convenient* that you only mention *income* taxes. Forget the payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, etc. that the *poor* pay disproportionately. You’re a st*pid little c*nt - how do you get out of bed without the help of *elder-care*? c*nt?
The rich pay more of those, too. They own more property.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:02 pmNo, you just dismissed them with utterly false assertions that the rich somehow “get their money backâ€. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Prove it's false - c*nt.
They’re not like welfare recipients, who don’t pay a cent in and leech hundreds of dollars out. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Welfare recipients are an incredibly small portion of society. Most either work some, or have worked, and therefore have paid into taxes, and the system. How many of these poor *leeches* would you say there are - c*nt?
June 16th, 2007 at 6:02 pmIf healthcare is free, I’ll make sure to suck out my $8k, plus a bit extra. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
Well selfish c*nts like you always *leech* out whatever you can. It's why you are so *paranoid* about welfare - you just project your own greed, and selfishness on the world.
So you believe you require the same health care as an elder person does? BAHAHA, as SICKO as your MIND is, surely your body is as useless as the rest of you! Loser!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:04 pmThe rich pay more of those, too. They own more property.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
They pay less, compared to their ability to pay. Payroll taxes are *capped*, meaning that the poor pay when they can't afford to, yet the rich don't pay, even when they can. Loser.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:05 pmWelfare recipients are an incredibly small portion of society. Most either work some, or have worked, and therefore have paid into taxes, and the system. How many of these poor *leeches* would you say there are - c*nt?
They're not paying into the system while they're collecting welfare. Funny thing, really, the military requires constant maintainence.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:10 pmThey pay less, compared to their ability to pay. Payroll taxes are *capped*, meaning that the poor pay when they can’t afford to, yet the rich don’t pay, even when they can. Loser.
What an absurd notion! Person A and B receive the same 'universal' healthcare, yet A pays more because some internet liberal decide he was 'able' to pay.
Such is the nature of a tax system that punishes success, I suppose. The founding fathers never would have stood for it.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:12 pmWell selfish c*nts like you always *leech* out whatever you can. It’s why you are so *paranoid* about welfare - you just project your own greed, and selfishness on the world.
So you believe you require the same health care as an elder person does? BAHAHA, as SICKO as your MIND is, surely your body is as useless as the rest of you! Loser!
Something like that, yeah. It's not difficult to rip off the federal government.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pmThey’re not paying into the system while they’re collecting welfare. Funny thing, really, the military requires constant maintainence. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
What a st*pid little sh*thead you are! And you don't receive any benefits at this point in your career for paying into medicare - that's how the *insurance* is set up. It's an *old-age* otherwise known as a *deferred* benefit. What a st*pid, pathetic little c*nt you are! Poor little gollum!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pmWhat an absurd notion! Person A and B receive the same ‘universal’ healthcare, yet A pays more because some internet liberal decide he was ‘able’ to pay. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
Yeah, who cares if that *person* has benefited more from than the poor people. Poor people should *pay* for being poor - right? selfish little f*cker.
Such is the nature of a tax system that punishes success, I suppose. The founding fathers never would have stood for it.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
Punishes success? BAHAHA, what a f*cking clueless statement! The founding fathers always had *luxury* taxes - remember the boston tea party? You're an idiot!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:17 pmSomething like that, yeah. It’s not difficult to rip off the federal government. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
As your culture of corruption shows, it's the only thing you wingnuts seem to ever do, to get your money. Maybe it's because you're too d*mned incompetent to earn it honestly!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:18 pmYeah, who cares if that *person* has benefited more from than the poor people. Poor people should *pay* for being poor - right? selfish little f*cker.
Everyone benefits from a strong military budget. This notion is nothing but liberal fantasy.
Punishes success? BAHAHA, what a f*cking clueless statement! The founding fathers always had *luxury* taxes - remember the boston tea party? You’re an idiot!
Everyone who used the luxuries paid an equal amount of tax, as opposed to the absurd 'proportionate' taxation.
Too bad liberals gutted the most important phrase in the original Constitution:
"No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken."
June 16th, 2007 at 6:20 pmAs your culture of corruption shows, it’s the only thing you wingnuts seem to ever do, to get your money. Maybe it’s because you’re too d*mned incompetent to earn it honestly!
Kind of sounds like the Medicaid recipients on the left.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:21 pmKind of sounds like the Medicaid recipients on the left.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
Considering you were just advocating ripping off the government, once again - pure projection. criminal
June 16th, 2007 at 6:48 pmEveryone benefits from a strong military budget. This notion is nothing but liberal fantasy. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
This is your response to *rich-people* benefit more from our system, therefore should pay more? BAHAHA, you're a real idiot.
Everyone who used the luxuries paid an equal amount of tax, as opposed to the absurd ‘proportionate’ taxation. Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
BAHAHA, what a b*llsh*t st*pid statement! A *luxury* tax, is a tax on the rich, and the don't pay an "equal-amount", they paid an amount based on consumption, which correlates to the wealth. Same way income taxes do.
Too bad liberals gutted the most important phrase in the original Constitution:
“No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.â€
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Oh, puhlease, like you even know what that clause *means*! That refers to how the taxes are *spent* (that's what laid means in this clause). It doesn't refer to tax collection, only tax expenditures. Dum bass.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:54 pmKind of sounds like the Medicaid recipients on the left.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
Wow, you have a real hatred of poor people, don't you? You classist, selfish nazi f*ck!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:55 pmOh, by the way, m12, if that *clause* of the constitution were upheld, you red state rednecks would be f*cked! As the *blue* states and *blue* regions pay FAR MORE TAXES - f*cking idiot!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:56 pmYes. lets all take healthcare advice from a 500 lb man with 15 pounds of fat around his heart.
Comment by mandolin — June 16, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
__________________________________________________
Statistically, your mom is probably fat too. Does that mean she's not qualified to debate the healthcare issue?
June 16th, 2007 at 7:15 pmOh, and m12. that 8k statistic is out of date. In 2006, it was 10k, but then again, the number is fairly meaningless. Half of medicare recipients receive less than 1k of medical services a year despite being elderly. In fact about 7% of the most medically ill make up over half of the expenditures. It's expensive to get old and sick, you heartless little c*nt.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:19 pmWhat industry do you work in, and do you charge “as much as possible†for your labor?
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
I see where you want to bring up another famous conservative strawman. In the first place, I don't set the prices my company charges, I just work there in the warehouse. Secondly, it wouldn't matter one bit because we're talking about healthcare here, not any other industry. And that means talking about peoples' lives and health. And to gouge people just so people like you can benefit financially off the sick and dying is unconscionable.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:59 pmGood luck trying to collect $1 trillion for Medicare for “everyoneâ€. You’ll need it!
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Is that trillion dollars (which I suspect you pulled out of your ass) based on the exorbitant prices they charge us today? because, you know, if they would charge less, it wouldn't cost anywhere near that much.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:02 pmSuch is the nature of a tax system that punishes success, I suppose. The founding fathers never would have stood for it.
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
Success??? Are you going to try to convince me that Sam Walton's children, each of which is one of the ten richest people in the world, are wealthy because they were successful? No, each one is extremely wealthy (more than a huge chunk of the country combined) because their father was successful and they inherited it!
And, oh yeah, your Republican friends in Congress would like to see people like Paris Hilton and the Walton children pay no taxes whatsoever on unearned income, such as interest from all the money they have in the bank, or dividends from their many investments of that money. Meanwhile, schmucks like you and me who have to work for a living are the ones who have to pay income taxes on anything we take in.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:11 pm“No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.â€
Comment by m12 — June 16, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Obviously you haven't read the constitution very closely. I have a book which helps point out all the areas that were modified by subsequent amendments. The note on that very phrase you quoted said, "Modified by the Sixteenth Amendment."
Amendment XVI
"The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
May I suggest you see a doctor about that pus leaking out of your brain. I'm going to a thread with fewer clowns.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:22 pmSomeone mentioned the entire movie is on youtube. I could not locate it. How do I search for it?
June 16th, 2007 at 8:40 pmIt is so true that many of the posters here are vile and selfish. We as a matter of fact needed socialized medicine from the beginning. Now we see who we all are here. Bush is almost a devil to you all and then when he wants the aliens in you want that to. Bush wants health care to be made of insurance companies that make money by keeping you sick and you want that. Bush and congress never hear your voices but you want to believe that they are still in your control.
What happened to sticking together? What happened to peace? What happened to care? You have all in a way become the hate you detested. Complete BS! This happens to be the least progressive thinking I have ever read about. Many posters have not even watched Moore’s movie and yet passing judgment on it from a short clip. SHAME ON YOU! Despicable!
June 16th, 2007 at 9:24 pmMikey needs to invest in some sessions with a personal trainer. He'll soon be learning about the health care system first hand.
June 16th, 2007 at 10:05 pm“The release of Michael Moore’s ‘Sicko’ is one of the most important developments in the national debate on our health care crisis since the Clintons attempted to pass universal health care legislation in 1994.â€
Uh... the movie actually dedicates a fair bit of time to examining that effort.
And judging from the film being promoted here at TP and the 2 uses of the word "Clinton" on this page, I'm going to assume none of you are aware how bad it makes Hillary Clinton look.
I don't know what attack ads will be targetting Clinton over the next year but they'll have to work pretty hard to top this 2 hour feature film in terms of impact on the public.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:10 pmI see where you want to bring up another famous conservative strawman. In the first place, I don’t set the prices my company charges, I just work there in the warehouse. Secondly, it wouldn’t matter one bit because we’re talking about healthcare here, not any other industry. And that means talking about peoples’ lives and health. And to gouge people just so people like you can benefit financially off the sick and dying is unconscionable.
Oh, so you're one of those "let everyone else be altruistic" people. Big talk, no walk.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:37 amOh, by the way, m12, if that *clause* of the constitution were upheld, you red state rednecks would be f*cked! As the *blue* states and *blue* regions pay FAR MORE TAXES - f*cking idiot!
Yeah, they would be. Thanks to the foolishness of the "progressive" income tax, they aren't.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:38 amSuccess??? Are you going to try to convince me that Sam Walton’s children, each of which is one of the ten richest people in the world, are wealthy because they were successful? No, each one is extremely wealthy (more than a huge chunk of the country combined) because their father was successful and they inherited it!
And, oh yeah, your Republican friends in Congress would like to see people like Paris Hilton and the Walton children pay no taxes whatsoever on unearned income, such as interest from all the money they have in the bank, or dividends from their many investments of that money. Meanwhile, schmucks like you and me who have to work for a living are the ones who have to pay income taxes on anything we take in.
Money in the bank, which is loaned out to businesses and individuals, creating jobs, building homes, and spurring economic growth? Why the hell would we want that?
Oh, and the Waltons run a very successful business. They're raking in billions in profits for a reason.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:42 am#215
I'm well aware of that. Hence this comment:
Too bad liberals gutted the most important phrase in the original Constitution.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:43 amIs that trillion dollars (which I suspect you pulled out of your ass) based on the exorbitant prices they charge us today? because, you know, if they would charge less, it wouldn’t cost anywhere near that much.
The Medicare budget is over $300 billion and covers only a fraction (some 43 million) of the population, which leeches off the rest of it.
You can figure for yourself what the other 250 million will cost.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:46 am#208
Hatred of the people too damn incompetent to earn an honest income for their families (by your words)? Yeah, I guess.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:48 amOh, puhlease, like you even know what that clause *means*! That refers to how the taxes are *spent* (that’s what laid means in this clause). It doesn’t refer to tax collection, only tax expenditures. Dum bass.
Might want to read what Adam Smith, the founder of economics, and a guiding influence on the founding fathers, said:
In Wealth of Nations, Smith explained, “Capitation taxes, so far as they are levied upon the lower ranks of people, are direct taxes upon the wages of labor….â€
The founding fathers were great to anticipate the dangers of such a thing. Too bad you are too useless to see it.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:51 amOh, and the Waltons run a very successful business. They’re raking in billions in profits for a reason.
Comment by m12 — June 17, 2007 @ 1:42 am
Yes, because a huge amount of what they sell is made by cheap Chinese labor. And because they don't pay decent wages. And because they force the few U.S. manufacturers that they buy from to sell their products to Walmart at little above cost, which reduces profit, therefore decent wages and benefits for the manufacturers' employees, etc., etc., the list goes on an on. Yeah, the reason is GREED, dickweed.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:38 amIn light of the failures of the present congress I think only a fool would trust the government to manage the entire health care system.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:45 amYes, because a huge amount of what they sell is made by cheap Chinese labor. And because they don’t pay decent wages. And because they force the few U.S. manufacturers that they buy from to sell their products to Walmart at little above cost, which reduces profit, therefore decent wages and benefits for the manufacturers’ employees, etc., etc., the list goes on an on. Yeah, the reason is GREED, dickweed.
If you say so. Good for them!
Walmart is a great place to shop and a great investment to own.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:13 amMichael Moore has ended the healthcare debate in this country with this, by far his best, film. The line in the sand is drawn. To borrow a phrase, you are either with us or against us.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:39 pmI grew up in Australia and didnt ever think about health care costs and received good care. I moved to the USA 10 years ago and am now a dual citizen and received sticker shock by the fact I had to pay for health care and fight my company to receive tests that proved necessary. It was scary and confusing, especially when you are sick.
Most people go bankrupt over medical costs. 50% of all involve health care costs. I think this debate should move from the personal to all Americans coming together to bring universal health to this country and I know this country could do it better than any one else if they just tried.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:09 pmAs long as you're willing to pay another $2000 a month in taxes, you can have free health care.
Of course, you'll have to wait 6-8 months to get an appointment, and Lord help you if you need something other than an antibiotic. And after a certain age they'll refuse to treat you and just send you home, since your life is about over anyways.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:11 pmScratch that, lets all take healthcare advice from a 500lb man and a 300 lb woman.
Comment by mandolin
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Dude you own this thread
funny but so true.
MM loves capitalism.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:12 pmMake a buck while you can Fat boy.
Comment by Troll — June 17, 2007 @ 7:45 am
Only a fool would think that I believe the PRESENT corporate-owned Congress would be up to the task.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:46 pmWell another reason why Im happy not to live in America...
June 18th, 2007 at 1:34 pmI like the intention of the movie but making a link between the health care on guantanamo bay and that for helpers at the 9-11 disaster is way wrong. People in guantanamo bay aren't kept a life becasue of good will of the US. these people are tortured and trying to end there own lifes. I really don't get making a link between health care and a prison where really wrong things happen.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:05 pm#165: Countries like the Netherlands actually have a lower unemployement rate and higher economic growth than the US. So calling socialism a failure is bullshit.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI live in the Netherlands and first of all, we do not have a socialistic country. Only compared to the USA. Here people are obligated to insure themselves. We have insurance companies that are non-profit (about 60% of the companies). And because of that many insured people our monthly costs are quite low. Just try to look across your own borders and you will see the rest of the world isn't a 'third world country'.
June 19th, 2007 at 4:51 amMany of the arguments continue to be based on false premises. Single payer, universal health insurance is NOT a health care delivery system owned by the government. The present cost of health insurance in the US, if applied to everyone, WOULD cover us all right now. My brother lives in Sweden. His wife was born there. She works for the Swedish government as a visiting home aid to the elderly. These folks live on their own with a little extra help into their nineties and beyond. Preventive health care including dental care is no problem, unlike the US.
June 23rd, 2007 at 6:09 pmHealthcare in Britain is run on taxes and is essentially free to everyone rich or poor. It is not perfect here but is much better than in America.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:28 amThe US health care industry, specifically the technology, breakthrough procedures, drugs, quality of doctors etc. is higher than any other country in the world. Why? There is the most money to be made in it. From drugs, salaries, hospitals, everything. If you were a surgeon, where would you go? A nationalized program where you earnings are limited, your funding limited, or somewhere with virtually unlimited resources in both areas? If this weren't so, why do all the foreign doctors that come here to get degrees not return to practice in their native lands? $$$.
My parents emigrated from England. I've been there many times and walking into a hospital there is like taking a step back in time. I have an aunt who has had Parkinson's for about 15 years and her 'treatments' she receives on socialized medical care are quite inferior to things regularly available in US. My Grandma needs cancer treatment, on the list she goes. 'At capacity' she's told.
I'm not saying that our current system in its availability or affordability isn't flawed, but just because everyone pays 35-45% of their income to taxes doesn't mean they are getting the best health care they can.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:22 pmI live in the Netherlands, and pay appr. $150 per month for health insurance. In exchange for that I get all the medical care I need, which I guess is as good as in the US. It shouldn't be too difficult to set up a non-profit system like ours in the US. Stop thinking about money first!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:22 amI have a "Plan B" policy (basically, I couldn't afford the premiums for Plan a anymore). Plan B means give your money to the insurance company and get nothing back unless you get REALLY sick. I wonder what would happen to the insurance companies if all us healthy people boycotted. I could save the premiums and pay for my rare doctor visits out of pocket.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI'm an American who lived in Canada for 9 years. A liver transplant surgeon in Canada saved my 33 year old wife's life. As a result, my two little boys have a mother. At first, we got quotes to have the surgery done in the USA. By this time it's a pre-existing illness and we could not get health care coverage in USA. Those CASH quotes were about $300,000 and could be as much as $500,000 if there were complications. I don't make that kind of money.
We researched on-line and found the best surgeon we could find (the Director of the Liver transplant program at Toronto General Hospital) and he took my wife as a patient and saved her life. My wife had a severed bile duct from an earlier surgery in the USA.
The surgeon saved my wife's life and it cost me $5.00 per day for the parking meter while I went to see her in the hospital for the three weeks she was there.
We are FRIGHTENED of the USA health care system. For this fact we are becoming Canadian citizens. All of the horror propoganda you hear about the Canadian health care system in the USA is completely false. Of course it's not perfect, but it's perfect enough to make me want to leave USA and become a citizen of Canada.
Am I a Socialist, am I anti-American? I doubt it. I'm an honorably discharged military veteran and spent time defending my country. I love the USA, but to not have health care in the USA is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. It has to change. I have always been a Republican, but now I am switching sides because of this issue.
Thank you and God Bless Michael Moore for making this movie! I never liked him until I saw this movie. I firmly agree with his stance.
July 7th, 2007 at 2:29 amHere's the sad truth. As long as Corporations (such as health care and pharmaceutical industries) own the lobbyists, and as long as Lobbyists get presidents elected, we will have a big up-hill battle, just short of a revolution to fix this corruption and greed on Capitol Hill.
Living in Canada, on work visa from the USA, I paid about 12% more in taxes. HOWEVER ... at the same salary as I was making in the USA, I had more money left over at the end of the year. WHY? No insurance payments, no deductibles, only 20% of the cost for pharmaceuticals MADE IN USA, less fees fees fees in Canada than in USA. In USA, they take take take and give as little as possible in return. It far offset the extra taxes I was paying.
Canadians are in the habit of seeing the doctor for preventive health care. You can get a full physical, get checked out if you think you may have symptoms, get a colonoscopy, a breast mamogram, whatever. You are way more likely to get preventive health care if you live in a system where you don't have to empty out your wallet every time you want to get those tests done.
I had NO problem getting to see our family physician in Canada on the same day. If it was on the weekend, there were community clinics and hospitals. We always got great treatment in Canada.
NOW, I'm back in the USA. Full coverage insurance, because of a family member's pre-existing illness, cost us about $1750 per month. Then we have fees fees fees on top of it.
OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS CRIMINAL !!! If you don't believe me, then that's because you have been lucky and have missed the bullet. You haven't gone bankrupt or haven't been denied health coverage. Just wait, it will happen to you or someone you know and it will cost yet another life needlessly.
July 7th, 2007 at 2:52 amI've seen the film and it scares me.. I would never want to live in a country that the people like that... it should be a civil right to get great, affordable healthcare. I live in Sweden... we may have one of the highest incometaxes in the world... but we still manage to live a really good life just as you do and we never pay more than 30$ to go to the doctor... no matter what's wrong. medication isn't allways that cheap but it's affordable.. you pay for your medications and when you have payed a total of 100$ then the rest is free for the rest of that year.
and btw. US is NOT the wealthiest country in the world.. that would be Norway!! many of you don't realize it but you are practically owned by asia...
I'm amazed that a country as powerful as the US spend so much money on going to war on the other side of the world... instead of making taking care of it's citizens the number one priority.. I think Michel moore is doing a great job. Very interessting film and I loved the Cuba part.. muahahaha. I really hope that things will change.. as you now know... US is the only western country that doesn't provide people with universal healthcare... it's time something happens!!!
July 10th, 2007 at 6:38 am300 million americans and this is Moore's best shot?? Of course the US has problems...many of them caused by too much government. The government artificially keeps down the number of health care givers with bad regulations. Moore is the master of the cheap shot. He has never done an indepth analysis of anything in his life.
July 11th, 2007 at 10:30 am