Abu Ghraib Investigator Details Pentagon Cover-Up: ‘I Thought I Was In The Mafia’
Abu Ghraib Investigator Details Pentagon Cover-Up: ‘I Thought I Was In The Mafia’
In a New Yorker article today, Seymour Hersh interviews Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba, who led the Pentagon’s investigation into the abuses at Abu Ghraib. This article is the first time that Taguba has publicly spoken out about the scandal, revealing that the Pentagon forced him to retire early because of his aggressive pursuit of the issue.
Taguba also reveals that he believed high-level military officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, knew about the abuses but feigned ignorance, putting all the blame on low-level soldiers. Key highlights:
Taguba was threatened by Gen. John Abizaid:
A few weeks after his report became public, Taguba, who was still in Kuwait, was in the back seat of a Mercedes sedan with Abizaid. … Abizaid turned to Taguba and issued a quiet warning: “You and your report will be investigated.”
“I wasn’t angry about what he said but disappointed that he would say that to me,” Taguba said. “I’d been in the Army thirty-two years by then, and it was the first time that I thought I was in the Mafia.“
White House “didn’t think the photographs were that bad”:
The former senior intelligence official said that when the images of Abu Ghraib were published, there were some in the Pentagon and the White House who “didn’t think the photographs were that bad” — in that they put the focus on enlisted soldiers, rather than on secret task-force operations. Referring to the task-force members, he said, “Guys on the inside ask me, ‘What’s the difference between shooting a guy on the street, or in his bed, or in a prison?’” A Pentagon consultant on the war on terror also said that the “basic strategy was ‘prosecute the kids in the photographs but protect the big picture.’”
Taguba was demoted and eventually forced to retire because of his investigation:
Taguba had been scheduled to rotate to the Third Army’s headquarters, at Fort McPherson, Georgia, in June of 2004. He was instead ordered back to the Pentagon, to work in the office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs. “It was a lateral assignment,” Taguba said, with a smile and a shrug. … A retired four-star Army general later told Taguba that he had been sent to the job in the Pentagon so that he could “be watched.” Taguba realized that his career was at a dead end. …
In January of 2006, Taguba received a telephone call from General Richard Cody, the Army’s Vice-Chief of Staff. “This is your Vice,” he told Taguba. “I need you to retire by January of 2007.” No pleasantries were exchanged, although the two generals had known each other for years, and, Taguba said, “He offered no reason.”
Pentagon pressured Sen. John Warner (R-VA) “to back off” the investigation:
A former high-level Defense Department official said that, when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, Senator John Warner, then the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, was warned “to back off” on the investigation, because “it would spill over to more important things.” A spokesman for Warner acknowledged that there had been pressure on the Senator, but said that Warner had stood up to it — insisting on putting Rumsfeld under oath for his May 7th testimony, for example, to the Secretary’s great displeasure.
U.S. commander in Iraq “knew exactly what was going on”:
Taguba came to believe that Lieutenant General Sanchez, the Army commander in Iraq, and some of the generals assigned to the military headquarters in Baghdad had extensive knowledge of the abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib even before Joseph Darby came forward with the CD. Taguba was aware that in the fall of 2003 — when much of the abuse took place — Sanchez routinely visited the prison, and witnessed at least one interrogation. According to Taguba, “Sanchez knew exactly what was going on.”
Rumsfeld’s claims of ignorance about the abuse were “simply not true”:
Nevertheless, Rumsfeld, in his appearances before the Senate and the House Armed Services Committees on May 7th, claimed to have had no idea of the extensive abuse. “It breaks our hearts that in fact someone didn’t say, ‘Wait, look, this is terrible. We need to do something,’” Rumsfeld told the congressmen. “I wish we had known more, sooner, and been able to tell you more sooner, but we didn’t.”
Rumsfeld told the legislators that, when stories about the Taguba report appeared, “it was not yet in the Pentagon, to my knowledge.” As for the photographs, Rumsfeld told the senators, “I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them”; at the House hearing, he said, “I didn’t see them until last night at 7:30.” …
Taguba, watching the hearings, was appalled. He believed that Rumsfeld’s testimony was simply not true. “The photographs were available to him — if he wanted to see them,” Taguba said.
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225 Responses to “Abu Ghraib Investigator Details Pentagon Cover-Up: ‘I Thought I Was In The Mafia’”
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Why does George W. Bush discriminate against Asian-American Generals? First he fired Gen. Shinseki for telling the truth, the he fired Gen. Taguba.
America is being lead by a racist Texas Mafia.
-GSD
June 17th, 2007 at 12:35 pmDude you were in the mafia. Still are.
How long until impeachment?
June 17th, 2007 at 12:36 pmthat reminds me i must cut my toenails soon
June 17th, 2007 at 12:36 pm10 days of Blair left - - Whew
June 17th, 2007 at 12:42 pmMafia is about as good a description as any for Donald Rumsfeld's military.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:43 pmHow many more generals must speak out before we can get rid of this travesty of a cabal in the WH? Calling Dubya the Commander-in-Chief is like calling Paris Hilton a Rhodes Scholar.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:44 pmi'm still waiting for general ricardo sanchez to be charged for the perjury he committed while testifying before the senate armed services committee in september 2004 where he claimed he did not author the memorandum authorizing "enhanced interrogation techniques"to be used at abu ghraib...
June 17th, 2007 at 12:44 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
This is absolutely appalling. I think the use of the word "Mafia" is appropriate.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:48 pmBnF, more proof it's working....Blessings
June 17th, 2007 at 12:48 pmLike Lt. Watada, Major General Taguba realizes that being in the military does not mean that his or her brain should automatically shut down. There needs to be more people in the military like Watada and Taguba who are going to question the dubious policies and orders that the military tells them to obey.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:53 pmThe members of the military who enabled the criminally immoral actions of the Bush administration should be court-martialed and sent to Leavenworth for the remainder of their disgraceful lives. They do every man and woman who has served our country faithfully complete and total dishonor.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pmWhen the end finally comes for Bushco, there will have to be a concerted effort - a government program, if you will - to set the record straight and reinstate the reputations and social standing of those so wantonly slandered by the Swift Boat machine.
Then we need to hold trials and enforce tough financial (this alone will kill the criminals) and jail sentences.
We need to make an example of these thugs, so that the next usurper thinks twice about the ramifications of jacking our Constitution.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pmWHY-O-WHY aren't these fools in the WH being prosecuted for WAR CRIMES?????
June 17th, 2007 at 1:01 pmThe insurgency really took off after Abu Ghraib. Rounding up Iraqi's en masse, locking them up with Real Terrorists, humiliating and torturing them, and then allowing photos of the whole sorry affair on the Internet....and then to think this is NO Big Deal....God ...no wonder we're not winning over there.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm“You and your report will be investigated.â€
Um Ok. What kind of threat is that? How do you respond to that?
"Well if you investigate my report, I'll make sure that you're investigation of my report will be investigated."
June 17th, 2007 at 1:17 pmForTruth Your Democrat Leaders have already sain . NO IMPEACHMENT . try to get that into your Demwited Skull
June 17th, 2007 at 1:18 pmzooey you silly Girl , the Mafia does not cut heads off , the Terrorist at Getmo do .
June 17th, 2007 at 1:19 pmTobey Tall Your Brain is still too Small , but just the right size for a Liberal Demwit
June 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pmBadger waaaaaaaaaa says the Liberal
June 17th, 2007 at 1:23 pmThis is absolutely appalling. I think the use of the word “Mafia†is appropriate.
Comment by Zooey — June 17, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
They prefer the term "Italian Businessman" please!
June 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pm#17. It was Major General Taguba who used the term mafia when he realized his nation was being run by neocon mobsters.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pmzooey you silly Girl , the Mafia does not cut heads off , the Terrorist at Getmo do .
Comment by Nancy Pelosi
Ah, the idiot trolls are out of church. Tell me, oh stupid troll -- how many heads have been cut off at "Getmo?" And how often do you change your piss-soaked sheets?
June 17th, 2007 at 1:28 pmRumsfield and Abizaid need to be put on the block at the Hague. Why doesn't the international court step up to the plate on this and demand an accounting for these war crimes? Does the Bush government wield so much power that they can stifle even foreign dissent? The testimony of this man cannot go unheeded. We have lost all power over our government when such indecent, barbaric crimes are committed in our name. WE are the Germans who said, "I didn't know how bad the Nazis really were. "
If you didn't know how bad the Bush government was, it is because YOU WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION!
June 17th, 2007 at 1:29 pmThey prefer the term “Italian Businessman†please!
Comment by Tundra
You've never heard of the Russian Mafia? Heh.
Is Tundra an Italian name? :-D
June 17th, 2007 at 1:30 pmI need to Getmo bling.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:33 pmTaguba was demoted and eventually forced to retire because of his investigation
Says it all about the Bush WH remember Gen.Shinseki(sp)He was forced to resign also because he did not go along.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:33 pmBut where is the Dem congress on this ?
This gentleman was forced out and no hearings on why ? sheesshhh
Is Tundra an Italian name? :-D
Actually it's from the USSR corporate enterprise division :)
June 17th, 2007 at 1:37 pmThe United States government has consistently opposed an international court that could hold US military and political leaders to a uniform global standard of justice.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:38 pmThe Bush administration, coming into office in 2001 as the Court neared implementation, adopted an extremely active opposition.
Guess why???
I need to getmo.... Oh never mind!
June 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pmYawl enjoy doing what you do to getmo of that which makes you who you are. Happy Father's Day to the dads!!
Taguba tells the TRUTH.
Bush and Cheney need to be at Abu Ghraib and TORTURED for TREASON.
Then sent to Gitmo and TORTURED until they DIE.
They will go to HELL from there.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:40 pmComment by Mr. Bush Goes To Hell — June 17, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
I must say this new group of Liberals that believe that sometimes Torture is OK, Sometimes the Death Penalty is OK, is sorta exciting.
Yes come to the dark side
/Darth Vader Voice
June 17th, 2007 at 1:43 pmAsking great question's that you and I already know the answer's to make you a number one poster today, Badger....Bravo and Thank's for posting....Blessings
June 17th, 2007 at 1:45 pmI must say this new group of Liberals that believe that sometimes Torture is OK, Sometimes the Death Penalty is OK, is sorta exciting.
Yes come to the dark side
/Darth Vader Voice
Yes, thank you, Mr. Cheney.
Actually, I AM against TORTURE.
However, if TRAITORS like Bush and Cheney feel TORTURE is OK, then it SHOULD be demonstrated on THEIR worthless bodies.
God will send their WORTHLESS SOULS to HELL from there.
See YOU in hell tundra (cause I'LL be THERE and so will YOU),
Mr. Bush
June 17th, 2007 at 1:46 pmMURDEROUS WAR CRIMINAL
COWARDLY AWOL TRAITOR TO THE USA (TM--BushCrimeCo, Inc.)
However, if TRAITORS like Bush and Cheney feel TORTURE is OK, then it SHOULD be demonstrated on THEIR worthless bodies.
So under some circumstances it is OK then? We have established my idea is sound, now just haggling over price.
See YOU in hell tundra (cause I’LL be THERE and so will YOU),
June 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pmWell I don't believe in hell or heaven or god or the devil et al.. but if I am wrong, I'll be there with You.
Blessings accepted and appreciated ;)
June 17th, 2007 at 1:50 pmHappy Father's Day dads!
June 17th, 2007 at 1:53 pmTaguba also reveals that he believed high-level military officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, knew about the abuses but feigned ignorance, putting all the blame on low-level soldiers.
Thats exactly what I said would happen when Abu Grabass broke in the news. Not one high level officer would be prosecuted.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pmThey scapegoated all the enlisted involved that were STUPID enough to follow unLawfull orders.
I wish I had been wrong.....
Tundra the person said "if" as in "if we are supposed to think torture is Ok". As in we really don't.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pmThanks Zooey. Happy not Mother's Day.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pmHas anyone heard about an impeachment day rally outside of the white house on the 4th of July?
June 17th, 2007 at 1:56 pmOK, So then advocating torture for Bush/Cheney is wrong thinking then?
June 17th, 2007 at 1:57 pmActually it’s from the USSR corporate enterprise division :)
Comment by Tundra — June 17, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Damn, I had my money on, you owing a Toyota Tundra, bugger looks like I lost a dollar to Sharon.
No surprise about this. It was pretty evident, that the orders came from higher up. No doubts that the military was aware of what was going on at Abu Ghriab, it is too bad, that they feel the need to let it happen. So much for winning the hearts and minds.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pmwhat is with the homo-eroticism with those in charge? The only people who want to torture...like to torture.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:58 pmDamn, I had my money on, you owing a Toyota Tundra, bugger looks like I lost a dollar to Sharon.
Heh, actually I am pro Union so I only buy American made.
OK, feel free to open up the flood gates of abuse
June 17th, 2007 at 2:00 pmJust so we remember what we're talking about...
June 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pmIt's not easy to get a member of Congress to stop talking. Much less a room full of them. But as a small group of legislators watched the images flash by in a small, darkened hearing room in the Rayburn Building last week, a sickened silence descended. There were 1,800 slides and several videos, and the show went on for three hours. The nightmarish images showed American soldiers at Abu Ghraib Prison forcing Iraqis to masturbate. American soldiers sexually assaulting Iraqis with chemical light sticks. American soldiers laughing over dead Iraqis whose bodies had been abused and mutilated. There was simply nothing to say. "It was a very subdued walk back to the House floor," said Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. "People were ashen."
No doubts that the military was aware of what was going on at Abu Ghriab, it is too bad, that they feel the need to let it happen. So much for winning the hearts and minds.
Comment by Krazny
Yeah, torturing people, like fscking melting the skin off of children, does not endear the hearts of a civillian population to your cause.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:11 pmI would like to think no one is surprised about this. All the information lead to Rummy. Now if the White House didn't think those pictures were that bad I wonder what Americans would think if that were done to our soldiers. Knowing now that the White House has hired contractors in replace of soldiers in Iraq it's easy to see why the innocent Iraq people are being tortured and killed. Now soldiers that followed orders are in jail while Americans cheer and give medals to the ones who committed the crimes. Families are backing George W. Bush as their sons and daughters were killed because Bush set them up. Oh yes and to one dead soldiers family Bush gave a coin to the widow and coloring books to the kids. That's what he thinks the soldiers life is worth.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pmWhat the f*ck is it going to take to get Impeachment back on the table?
This is beyond criminal. It's plain sick.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pmIt's Father's Day?
Shoot, now I have to be nice to mini-blue's dad.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:14 pm:P
What the f*ck is it going to take to get Impeachment back on the table?
Comment by trueblue
at this point?
June 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThe house Dems voting to replace Pelosi with someone without a "Table phobia"........
LOL, Wayne.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:18 pmTaguba said. “I’d been in the Army thirty-two years by then, and it was the first time that I thought I was in the Mafia.“
Fascinating... so, how long y' been in the Mafia?
Or are you, Taguba, making a completely unfounded statement, for you yourself have never actually been in the Mafia?
June 17th, 2007 at 2:20 pmWell, he should have spoken up when the alleged cover-up took place. Now it's just whine, whine, whine.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pmPres,
Not big on reading comprehension, are you?
He was talking about how it made him feel
June 17th, 2007 at 2:22 pmOr are you, Taguba, making a completely unfounded statement, for you yourself have never actually been in the Mafia?
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 17, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Don't got a clue, do ya Pippie?
June 17th, 2007 at 2:26 pmDon’t got a clue, do ya Pippie?
Comment by Trollskinner
Most the trolls couldn't find a clue if it fell on their pointy heads and stuck there.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pmJust saying....
LOL, Wayne.
Comment by trueblue
;)
June 17th, 2007 at 2:31 pmHas this story hit the main stream press? I'm hoping this story gets wide coverage.
Wayne #46, yes, white phosphorus used during the siege of Fallujah.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:32 pmHe was talking about how it made him feel
Comment by trueblue — June 17, 2007 @ 2:22 pm
Well, shiiit. I feel like the real GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR OCTAVIANVS
June 17th, 2007 at 2:35 pmOne of the problems General Taguba appears to have made was taking seriously the claim about honor in the military. Obviously, he got a quick lesson that not all his fellow generals shared that concept, especially if it gets in the way of potential promotions. At the beginning of this crime against humanity in Iraq, even one of the few courageous politicians in Washington felt obliged to say everyone in uniform is a hero. Obviously, she didn't give much thought to those in jails and brigs for committing crimes, those who should have been in prisons for raping women and the officers who covered up for them, and the generals who went along with this war despite the Nuremberg principles about not following illegal and immoral orders.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:36 pmAbizaid turned to Taguba and issued a quiet warning: “You and your report will be investigated.â€
And now Abizaid gets the same former-mafiosi-turned-State's-witness treatment from his old administration collegues.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:38 pm"A Pentagon consultant on the war on terror also said that the “basic strategy was ‘prosecute the kids in the photographs but protect the big picture.’â€"
... and General Antonio M. Taguba went along with the program, never mentioning Rumsfeld even once in his report.
See http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2004/800-mp-bde.htm
Why is he being a crybaby now?
June 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pmWell, shiiit. I feel like the real GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR OCTAVIANVS
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 17, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
No you don't. You don't feel nothing dogg, cause you're NUMB! Taguba had a GUT FEELING! Ever had one of those? That's something neocons and their ilk can only conjecture of, because it presupposes GUTS.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:07 pmand General Antonio M. Taguba went along with the program, never mentioning Rumsfeld even once in his report.
Comment by HeckuvahJob Brownie
Must have been that horse head he found in his bed one morning. heh. /snark
Why is he being a crybaby now?
Crybaby?
June 17th, 2007 at 3:11 pmActually its about time he spoke out, years late, but better than never.
Wayne: He's stabbing the troops in the back by spreading these allegations. How's that "better than never"?
June 17th, 2007 at 3:13 pmNo you don’t. You don’t feel nothing dogg, cause you’re NUMB! Taguba had a GUT FEELING! Ever had one of those? That’s something neocons and their ilk can only conjecture of, because it presupposes GUTS.
Comment by Just Sayin' — June 17, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Well, as a responsible human being... you know, being rational and all... I must admit that, yes, I am guilty of requiring a statement to be backed by corroborating evidence. In the case of ol' Tabuga, that means he would have had to have first hand experiences of actually being in the Mafia...
... dogg.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:18 pmWe want your soul!
June 17th, 2007 at 3:20 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/v/i3vZ6McvTD4
#64, . if Gen. Taguba had integrity he would have spoken out back then.
This is just another book deal, a la Goerge Tenet, in the making.
They are all mercinaries and war profiteers - from the top down.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:21 pmComment by MAF54
Try using a non-pedophile moniker if you wish me to discuss anything with you, pervert-troll.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:21 pmIn the case of ol’ Tabuga, that means he would have had to have first hand experiences of actually being in the Mafia…
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
What a moron.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:24 pmCritical thinking is not your forte', eh?
sheesh.
Our military "leaders"(and I use the term lightly) are a disgrace. It's no wonder we're losing the 'war on terror' when good men like Tabuga get run out of the military and pathetic cover-up artists like Abizaid and his ilk run things. We have met the enemy and it is us.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pmFrom the article:
A Pentagon consultant on the war on terror also said that the “basic strategy was ‘prosecute the kids in the photographs but protect the big picture.’â€
Here, again, "the ends justifies the means," is said in different words. Seeking Empire or domination of the world, through whatever "means" will work. Anything that might thwart that "end" must be denied and/or suppressed.
How much clearer can it get? By their own admission, this was their plan, their strategy! Nothing BushCo does is an accident or done because of stupidity. What they do and say may or may not work the way they intend (due to their incompetence), but it is their intent, with malice aforethought.
Machaivelli lives on through BushCo today.
If fascism becomes the ruling ideology in this country, it has achieved its goal from inside this country, Not from an outside threat or force and that makes it insideous. The people allow it to happen, or even encourage it to happen, driven by their ignorance, emotional need (fear or anger etc.) or a combination of both. Think Germany in the early 1930s.
This is why we need to educate and inform ourselves, and others, rather than give up in frustration as some folks here on this board, have claimed they done. Our voices at all levels, Congress as well as the people, need to be strong and loud in defending and restoring this country to its original intent.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:29 pmPRIMVS INTER PARES
What are you trying to prove with your Latin? Whatever it is, I doubt you'll have much success since you don't make any sense in English.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:31 pmComment by Wayne — June 17, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
Comment by Just Sayin’ — June 17, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Yeah, you guys are right...
In fact, let's go ahead and forgive BushCo for invading Iraq on a "gut feeling"... 'cause, you know, we don't need credible evidence or anything, he had "a gut feeling" so it's gravy... right guys... right?
June 17th, 2007 at 3:32 pmOur military “leadersâ€(and I use the term lightly) are a disgrace. It’s no wonder we’re losing the ‘war on terror’ when good men like Tabuga get run out of the military and pathetic cover-up artists like Abizaid and his ilk run things. We have met the enemy and it is us.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:34 pmTaguba can now join the ranks of the few officers, such as General Shinseki, with the courage to speak truth to power.
Yet you write like GAIVS JVLIVS CAESAR AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS, a. k. a. Calligula. Weird.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:35 pmSame procedure as always - prosecute the enlisted men and let everybody else higer up cover their ass. God bless America
June 17th, 2007 at 3:39 pm#71 Comment by Darin — June 17, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
It’s no wonder we’re losing the ‘war on terror’
‘war on terror’ ?? As you put it in quotes I assume you agree their is no such thing. You can't wage war on a concept.
The definition of war:
A state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state.
The phrase ‘war on terror’ is a BushCo, neocon "frame" to justify a perpetual state of "war." This then justifies all the actions such as the illegal invasion of Iraq, the "patriot" act and the myriad of other things we are suffering at their hands. Fighting terrorists should be done by police not the military, and especially not by private contractors like Blackwater.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:47 pmComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
Put down the crackpipe.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:50 pmYou are not making any sense at all.
#71 Comment by Darin — June 17, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
...when good men like Tabuga...
As happy as I am with his statements and all the other "retired" generals, I think his "goodness" as you and others have noted is rather suspect.
As noted:
"This article is the first time that Taguba has publicly spoken out about the scandal..."
I can not accept his being courageous, or thinking of him as a "good" man. He was a part of the Mafia, as he finally figured out, for 32 years before the light bulb went off. He apparently was quite happy living by the "book", doing whatever dirty deeds they asked of him, until they "turned" on him. His analogy of the Mafia is apt, and he was nothing more than a high class underling, loyally carrying out his bosses orders. The Armed services, like the Mafia, demands loyalty and rewards its followers, as long as they stay in line or become expendable.
Were he truly "good" as you feel he is, he would have voiced his epiphany when it appeared to him. His voice back a few years ago, when Abu Ghraib was first revealed, would have really made a difference. Today, long after that horrible scandal has mostly faded, comes this belated reality.
It's sad in my mind that so many of the "enlightened" don't speak and act when it is historically demanded of them. We hear their "stories" after the fact, years later. We are desperately in need of brave men and heroes.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:15 pm#79 Comment by Wayne — June 17, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
Put down the crackpipe.
You are not making any sense at all.
Wayne, you don't understand! He speaks in tongues. Only the annointed can perceve the ultimate wisdom dispensed by true believers.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:23 pmWe want your soul!
http://www.youtube.com/v/i3vZ6McvTD4
Comment by FOX News — June 17, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
This video is so poorly done it it very irritating to watch. The message it sends is just a rant and a rabble rouser. I doubt it will have any effect on anyone other than the choir it preaches to.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:33 pmThis video is so poorly done it it very irritating to watch. The message it sends is just a rant and a rabble rouser. I doubt it will have any effect on anyone other than the choir it preaches to.
Comment by Merlin — June 17, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
No, it has an effect.
It's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!
For about 30sec. then it's annoying.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:45 pmAll the skunks in Bushevik's administration should be subpoenaed by the Senate, all called into one hearing and a filibuster begun. Make them all sit there and squirm as the indignant Senators thunder at each and everyone of the skunks about their high crimes and misdemeanors against America and the world. And let it go on and on, with Senators replacing each other with refreshed vigor until theses skunks moan and writhe in agony at the words of their misdeeds. Words are powerful things. Then let us have some legal action against the skunks.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pmFACT CHECK! Taguba retired as a Major General ~ no demotion:
http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=41283&archive=true
The Brigadier General he investigated in his report was demoted.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:17 pmThis Bush-Cheney regime should have been impeached long before the Abu Ghraib scandal came to light. The very act of inciting war on the Iraqi people over lies should have had Bush on his way to a prison cell in The Hague.
I've never before been embarrassed to be an American. Nice going, you Repuke war criminals. Burn in hell, all of you.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:27 pmA former high-level Defense Department official said that, when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, Senator John Warner, then the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, was warned “to back off†on the investigation, because “it would spill over to more important things.â€
i've said it before, i'll say it again, every single head of every committee in congress from 2001 to 2006 should be impeached for obstruction of justice
any time any one of these people (warner, sensenbrenner, et al) says a word, people should just laugh in their face and walk away
June 17th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIt was clear during Taguba's testimony during hearings on Abu that the mafia was alive and well and pressuring him to lie. Now the truth comes out. Sadly, this is just the tip of a very ugly, dark, necrotic iceberg called "the bush administration". When all the dank truth is aired, the stench in this country will not disappear for decades.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:57 pmTofubo: I wholeheartedly concur! They ALL need to go. There will be a witch hunt to end all witch hunts before any Rethuglican Repugnant is elected into public office in this country ever again.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:58 pmMafia? USSR? Give me a break! This is the Gestapo.
June 17th, 2007 at 6:08 pm> No doubts that the military was aware of what was going on at Abu
> Ghriab, it is too bad, that they feel the need to let it happen. So
> much for winning the hearts and minds.
Not only abroad; after all since Vietnam the military has somehow been re-engineered as a moral pillar of American Society - it's come so that criticism, "failure to support" or refusal to admire is a definite no-no for both left and right. Over the last few years the pillar has revealed itself to be of wood and appreciably termite-eaten, but that truth is not "mainstream". Do not expect much to change if the Dems take over.
June 17th, 2007 at 6:49 pmNancy Pelosi, hello, are you there? You want to support the troops? How do you feel about the treatment this 32-year Army vet got? Oh yes, George Bush told you it wasn't true so you "took him at his word." Anyone who could possibly take Assbite Antitruth at his word and then loudly proclaim it is in the late stage of dementia. Lead us, Nancy, lead us! What a screaming joke.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:14 pmThings like this really drive me up a wall:
http://cartoonbox.slate.com/hottopic/?image=22&topicid=47
June 17th, 2007 at 7:30 pmA cry for justice from a good man who expected us to protect his son by Robert Fisk.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:41 pm'I thought I was in the mafia"
He is in the mafia.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:56 pmDoesn't he know this is a republican administration?
We'll have none of that honor, integrity or truth crap.
:|
We need "YES men" dammit!
June 17th, 2007 at 7:57 pmMEMO: Recruitment divisions
Please be advised that the offical new spokemodel for all branches of the service will be Tony Soprano. Recruitment materials including posters, collector cardsets and the new action figure "camo-Soprano" will be availble in September. In the meantime we encourage all recruiting officers to familiarize themselves with the mannerisms, characteristics speech pattern of mr Soprano as are available via viewing the Soprano's platinum home DvD collection.
Regards;
June 17th, 2007 at 8:07 pmCommanding Officer
SynComBadaBingPac
The GOP has been using the Mafia as a role model ever since Rove took control. The kickback bribes from Abramoff, the vote rigging by Diebold, the no-bid contracts to Halliburton, the attorney tampering in the DoJ, the curious recording keeping, and the coaching of witnesses and pleading of the 5th all make this administration more Cosa Nostra than Land of Lincoln.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:15 pmAnd that's why I've been saying let's RICO the SOBs for months now.
RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO! RICO!
June 17th, 2007 at 8:39 pmThe phrase ‘war on terror’ is a BushCo, neocon “frame†to justify a perpetual state of “war.†This then justifies all the actions such as the illegal invasion of Iraq, the “patriot†act and the myriad of other things we are suffering at their hands. Fighting terrorists should be done by police not the military, and especially not by private contractors like Blackwater.
Comment by Merlin — June 17, 2007 @ 3:47 pm
Let us not forget that it also gives him a handy excuse to "exercise his inherent war-time powers as Commander-in-Chief."
Without a war, he has no "war-time powers".
Good post, Merlin.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:43 pmHe’s stabbing the troops in the back by spreading these allegations.
Comment by MAF54 — June 17, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
In all seriousness, could you please explain the logic behind that statement? I'm serious, I never understood it. In what way is telling the truth "stabbing the troops in the back"?
June 17th, 2007 at 8:47 pmMafia? USSR? Give me a break! This is the Gestapo.
Comment by tablogloid
Hey, the Mafia was as nasty, ruthless, and efficient a criminal enterprise in its prime time yrs as anybody. The only thing the Mafia never got was its own country, and they came close w/ Cuba.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:47 pmIn what way is telling the truth “stabbing the troops in the back�
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Aw, Wayne, MAF54 has to say crazy shit like that 'cause he ain't got nothin' to say that's worth sayin'.
Call for MAF54, call for MAF54, you're being PAGED.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:49 pmAw, Wayne, MAF54 has to say crazy shit like that ’cause he ain’t got nothin’ to say that’s worth sayin’.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 17, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
To tell the truth, TROS, I'll accept an explanation from anyone who likes to use that kind of talk. It's highly illogical to me, but I am an open-minded enough person to at least listen to what people who differ with me have to say. I'd like to know the rationale behind their thinking. (So I ask them politely.)
June 17th, 2007 at 9:04 pm2nd attempt:
Because IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE. They have to be removed from office before any criminal trial.
And, if they're not IMPEACHED, they can be PARDONED!
June 17th, 2007 at 9:17 pmWell, if impeachment is "off the table", a Democratic president, upon taking office in January 2009, ought to investigate and prosecute every lawbreaker in this administration. Impeachment is too mild; these guys deserve prison sentences.
BTW, was the bizarre blanket pardon of Nixon by Ford ever tested in court? I mean, it seems to me that you can't pardon someone for unknown crimes for which they have not been charged and not convicted. I don't think such a Get Out of Jail Free kind of pardon would have stood up in court. There has to be a conviction for there to be a pardon.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:24 pmAssociated Press
June 17th, 2007
When questioned as to Major General Taguba's reassignment, President Bush replied, he just wasn't the very model of a modern Major General.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:29 pmTaguba said. “I’d been in the Army thirty-two years by then, and it was the first time that I thought I was in the Mafia.“
To which Mr Bush replied "fergettabbouditt"
June 17th, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Mr. Bush Goes To Hell in your silly liberal dreams
June 17th, 2007 at 9:33 pmBecause IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — June 17, 2007 @ 9:17 pm
I've already said that I have a table that Speaker Pelosi can borrow, and it has "impeachment" written all over it.
I'm tired of hearing the Washington pundits claim that the American public "does not have the stomach for an impeachment." That's crap and they can't prove it isn't. What Americans do not want is an impeachment of the kind brought by the Republicans against President Clinton. One based on lies, distortions, and falsehoods.
If someone in the Executive Branch is violating his oath of office (which includes supporting the constitution), the American people expect that the Legislative Branch will do its Constitutional duty and begin an impeachment proceeding. It should be quite obvious to anyone with an IQ in the three-digit range that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has violated that oath, in addition to breaking the law. (His conversations with Monica Goodling about her upcoming testimony could be construed at witness tampering or obstruction of justice.)
And if the Democrats refuse to do their duty, it's time to remove them, too, come Nov 2008. Start looking now for third party candidates.
HELP SPREAD THE WORD
June 17th, 2007 at 9:34 pmMAKE YOURSELF HEARD
GIVE 'EM THE BIRD
VOTE FOR A THIRD
Testifying under oath before Congress, General Taguba reported some disturbing events.
"then there was the time President Bush offered to send me a box of cubans"
:|
Naturally I thought he meant the cigars...
June 17th, 2007 at 9:35 pmThe Republic of Stupidity are you advocating RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO for the Clintons after all Bill was the Boss and he kept his crews in line .
June 17th, 2007 at 9:35 pmWhat the people want is a speedy and quick trial of Bush and Cheney on charges of conspiracy for undermining the government of the US, undermining the US military, torturing prisoners of war, illegally invading Iraq, causing the deaths and torture of hundreds of thousands of people
All of this is now easy to prove
June 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pmComment by bloodforoil — June 17, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
But if they're not impeached first, Bush would still be president even if convicted and, since the constitution doesn't say he can't, he might try to pardon both the Dickster and himself. (It only specifies that he can't use the pardon power in cases of impeachment. It doesn't say he can't use it on himself.)
June 17th, 2007 at 10:06 pmWayne
If the Congress believed in the Constitution and the people, they would proceed with iimpeachment and not concern themselves with the exact outcome. The covenant between the people and the government demands that the government make every effort to protect and promote the general welfare. This government does none of that.
THerefore it should, by law, be forced to go.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:12 pmThe Republic of Stupidity are you advocating RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO RICO for the Clintons after all Bill was the Boss and he kept his crews in line
Comment by Harry Truman —
Brain-dead Harry, we've already told you that bringing up the "Clinton did it, too" line won't work on this blog. Also, I've already warned you a few times that Karl will cut your troll honorarium if you keep on making us look as illiterate as we actually are with your run-on sentences and inability to punctuate. Finally, forget about trying to post as "Nancy Pelosi" because you'll never be convincing as a girl.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:17 pmThe covenant between the people and the government demands that the government make every effort to protect and promote the general welfare. This government does none of that.
THerefore it should, by law, be forced to go.
Comment by bloodforoil — June 17, 2007 @ 10:12 pm
Yes, and the oath of office every one of them took says that they will "preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States." So their first reponsibility is really to the constitution.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:18 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — June 17, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
Associated Press
June 17th, 2007
When questioned as to Major General Taguba’s reassignment, President Bush replied, he just wasn’t the very model of a modern Major General.
This is a line from a humerous song written by (British) Gilbert & Sullivan at the turn of the last century. Used this way it is a bit of rather sick and degrading humor coming from an AWOL Chickenhawk. Knowing where it comes from just makes me sick!
June 17th, 2007 at 10:25 pmYes the Bush Regime Mafia. The old Don Bush Senior gave the operation of the family over to Sonny Bush Junior, and Michael Jebby Bush wants to take over soon, as Fredo Neil Bush pays for prostitutes and acts stupid.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:26 pmWayne - An aside - I think your "third party" idea has merit - but it would be a more viable expression in a Parliamentary system. Afterall, I haven't stopped '"crediting" Ross Perot for Bill Clinton and Ralph Nader for GWB. And as our Constitution does not proscribe Parliamentary government, a third party vote is a waste. A liberal's best bet is to exert more collective influence (no pun intended) over the Dems. Kindest regards to Jane.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:31 pm#105 Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 17, 2007 @ 9:04 pm
I’d like to know the rationale behind their thinking. (So I ask them politely.)
You are a gentleman Wayne. As MAF won't tell you the truth I will. He is not a "real" person expressing his opinion. He is a troll. Their job is to disrupt threads and they do that by irritating, then agrevating whoever is prone to fall for their provocative poking. Every response to them is a "win" in their book. As they are not being honest with their posts they deserve no response. And of course whatever response you get from your polite request will be equally untrue. So you learn nothing other than how it feels to be further bombarded by their antogonizing nonsense.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:36 pmA "Q" for Progs - now that the lst of the 'surge" troops landed in Iraq last week, how soon will you start labelling the surge a FAILURE? Make no mistake, if the plan fails and the duly elected Iraq government want us out, I would have no problem shaking the dust of that God-forsaken place from the boots of our brave military. The sad legacy of liberal national defense (now there's an oxymoronic term!) is the complete willingness of liberals to wave that white failure flag of surrender.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:38 pmWayne - An aside - I think your “third party†idea has merit - but it would be a more viable expression in a Parliamentary system. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Wow, a *reasonable* observation from one of the st*pidest c*nts around! Who *taught* you this talking point - st*pid little girl?
Afterall, I haven’t stopped ‘â€crediting†Ross Perot for Bill Clinton and Ralph Nader for GWB. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Considering GWB lost by a HALF MILLION VOTES, you're too *kind* to Nader and Buchanan. After all, without the Supreme Court, he loses on ALL ACCOUNTS - st*pid little c*nt.
And as our Constitution does not proscribe Parliamentary government, a third party vote is a waste. A liberal’s best bet is to exert more collective influence (no pun intended) over the Dems. Kindest regards to Jane. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
It is a *waste*, but it sure doesn't stop you wingnuts from funding nader and working to *destroy* the democratic process. Then again, when have fascist c*nts like you that HATE THE MAJORITY OF AMERICAN POLICIES from undermining democracy? Right, dum c*nt?
June 17th, 2007 at 10:41 pmVVGFU - Your sexist, filthy vocabulary must be attributed to a lack of attention at home and rejection by women. You poor thing! Go back and take your Civic Classes over again - apparently the notion of the Electoral College didn't sink in the last semester. So little friend, the reality is Florida alone was the deciding state....remember the state in which AL didn't want alll votes re-count....just Dem counties.......
Tooodles....
June 17th, 2007 at 10:50 pmVVGFU - Your sexist, filthy vocabulary must be attributed to a lack of attention at home and rejection by women. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
Coming from a *gender-confuse* wo*man* hating c*nt like you - that's HILARIOUSLY FUNNY!!!! I *LOVE* women, you however seem to hate women, and men tremendously, you self loathing c*nt.
You poor thing! Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
More projection - YOU POOR THING!!!
Go back and take your Civic Classes over again - apparently the notion of the Electoral College didn’t sink in the last semester. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
Spare your *lecture* for the WHINY republicans that kept moaning about how 2000's election might REQUIRE THROWING OUT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!!! Now, by electoral college, you referring to the LOSS OF FLORIDA that the RECOUNT show GWBumm would have experienced? Poor st*pid little c*nt!!! Share your *lectures* for your brain damaged MOTHER that cares about the LAME EXCUSES you POST!!!!
So little friend, the reality is Florida alone was the deciding state….remember the state in which AL didn’t want alll votes re-count….just Dem counties……. Tooodles….
Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
Oh POOR ST*PID LITTLE C*NT!! But Florida DIDN'T DECIDED, the SUPREME COURT DID!!! Actually Al would have won with ALL or just the recount he suggested. It was you POOR SPORT WINGNUTS that didn't want ANY RECOUNT - ST*PID C*NT!!! But don't let reality's LIBERAL BIAS influence your VULGAR HATE!!! Poor little PATHETIC C*NT!!!
June 17th, 2007 at 10:56 pmA “Q†for Progs - now that the lst of the ’surge†troops landed in Iraq last week, how soon will you start labelling the surge a FAILURE? Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
Oh, but they've been SURGING for HOW LONG, with INCREASING FAILURES? How long before you WINGNUTS claim that the SURGE WILL WORK IN 6 MONTHS? F*cking st*pid c*nt.
Make no mistake, if the plan fails and the duly elected Iraq government want us out, I would have no problem shaking the dust of that God-forsaken place from the boots of our brave military. The sad legacy of liberal national defense (now there’s an oxymoronic term!) is the complete willingness of liberals to wave that white failure flag of surrender. Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
Surrender to WHOM exactly - you ST*PID C*NT? You mean the GUY IN AFGHANISTAN THAT WE AREN'T PURSUING?
You're a really r*t*rded excuse for a LAHWHUHR aren't you ST*PID C*NT?
June 17th, 2007 at 10:59 pmUsed this way it is a bit of rather sick and degrading humor coming from an AWOL Chickenhawk. Knowing where it comes from just makes me sick!
Comment by Merlin — June 17, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
Oh is THAT what makes you sick?
:|
I thought it was all the murder and torture and junk...... go figure.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:59 pmWell if that makes you sick, you're gonna love my newer material.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:00 pmBy the way Merlin. You proceed from a false assumption. I have not come to praise caesar, but to mock him.
Try this. Picture Mr Bush, with his "Alfred E. Newman" good looks, squinting, and saying that line.
ahh. heh heh.. he just wasn't... heh heh, you know... the very model..... of a modern.... major general..... heh heh
Picture it in your mind.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:05 pmA “Q†for Progs - now that the lst of the ’surge†troops landed in Iraq last week, how soon will you start labelling the surge a FAILURE?
Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
An "A" for the trogs - How about the day you bubbleheads decided to do it?
June 17th, 2007 at 11:09 pmA "Q" for the Trogs - now that its been 4 years, when are the Iraqi's going to start tossing those flowers?
:|
We're getting tired of the hand grenades.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:11 pmOf course, I guess we did blow up all the flower shops.
:|
Probably makes it difficult.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:13 pmI guess the problem here is semantics. After all, you guys seem to fix everything simply by changing its name.
Lets try this.
Instead of calling them "Improvised Explosive Devices", lets call them "Peace Lillies".
:D
There. Problem solved.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:14 pm#123 Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
VV proposed:
A “Q†for Progs - now that the lst of the ’surge†troops landed in Iraq last week, how soon will you start labelling the surge a FAILURE? Make no mistake, if the plan fails and the duly elected Iraq government want us out, I would have no problem shaking the dust of that God-forsaken place from the boots of our brave military. The sad legacy of liberal national defense (now there’s an oxymoronic term!) is the complete willingness of liberals to wave that white failure flag of surrender.
Folks, this post is a good example of why I know VV is the head troll over the the troll locker room. It it truly well done. A psychological lesson on how to suck in the unsuspecting who will read it as a reasonable post expressing its real feelings.
(Actually, I suspect this is a cut and paste job as the word "lst" (instead of last) is still in it. I remember reading this post before.)
Here is a psychological breakdown sentence by sentence by an old salesman who knows the game well.
Sentence 1 is a provocative poke masquerading as a real question. It peaks your interest. Who can refuse to answer by spouting their opinion or responding with some attempt to give a real response?
Sentences 2&3 are used to falsely imply that it is on our side...If only..., when in fact it is no such thing. This is to make the reader "let down emotionally" so it can deliver the coup de gras in Sentence 4. In sales parlance, this is called the "hat trick."
It ends with Sentence 4 which is the real point of the post, which is to inflame the reader. It is now blatent and confrontational instead of the phony conciliatory approach used in sentences 2&3 that was meant to deceive.
Read through this post several times! It is a wonderful lesson on how con men work, from car lots to snake oil salesmen in real life, not just here on TP.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:18 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — June 17, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 17, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
You're really on a roll, tonight, aren't you? :D
One would think that a lawyer would know the meaning of the word "proscribe." I don't think it means what VV thinks it means.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:22 pmWayne - An aside - I think your “third party†idea has merit - but it would be a more viable expression in a Parliamentary system. Afterall, I haven’t stopped ‘â€crediting†Ross Perot for Bill Clinton and Ralph Nader for GWB. And as our Constitution does not proscribe Parliamentary government, a third party vote is a waste. A liberal’s best bet is to exert more collective influence (no pun intended) over the Dems. Kindest regards to Jane.
Comment by valiant venus — June 17, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
Thank you for your reply, but I must respectfully disagree with some of what you said. But I will agree with the part that says my idea has merit. :)
Actually there is nothing whatsoever in our constitution that says we must have a two, and only two party political system. I have never understood why people think that is the best way to do it. Democracy works best when there a multiude of ideas to present for debate, not just "This Side" and it's opposite, "That Side". In fact, I would argue that limiting our elected bodies to only two parties hurts democracy, not helps it.
Not to sound disrepctful, but are you sure you wanted to use the word "proscribe" in your comment? It means to "prohibit", so what your comment asserted was that the constitution does not prohibit a Parliamentary system. If so, then why would a vote for a third party be "a waste"? Perhaps you meant to use a different word.
I honestly believe that it is the Democrats and the Republicans (both of them are guilty of this) who maintain that you have to pick between them and only them. And I believe that when we listen to them, we hurt ourselves, because neither of those two parties is working for our best interests.
If you're at all interested in my expanded thoughts on this idea, you can find them on my blog. And thank you for your polite words. Your regards have been passed to Jane.
GIVE 'EM THE BIRD
June 17th, 2007 at 11:24 pmVOTE FOR A THIRD
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 17, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
By the way Merlin. You proceed from a false assumption. I have not come to praise caesar, but to mock him.
Actually I didn't. And I recognize humor. Don't underestimate me. I responded to my BushCo anger rather than to your Onionesque humor.
It was a choice not an echo...Eh?
June 17th, 2007 at 11:38 pm"I thought I was in the Mafia"
You were right. That's exactly what the Bush Crime Family is, our governmental Mafia.
Heaven help us. Hopefully we will survive them and once again become the great nation we once were.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:44 pm“It was a very subdued walk back to the House floor,†said Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee. “People were ashen.â€
And the end result of what happened? A couple of low-level soldiers went to prison and then everyone forgot about it.
I have a question. Is Abu Ghraib still open? Bush promised to close it once the scandal broke. Anyone want to bet that it is not closed and that it is still "business as usual"?
June 17th, 2007 at 11:52 pm"Wayne: He’s stabbing the troops in the back by spreading these allegations. How’s that “better than never�"
He's not stabbing th troops in the back, he's stabbing George Bush and Don Rusmfield in the back. This is something he should have done a very long time ago. The troops know what is going on. They know how much harm torture has done to this country and how much harm it has done to them if they are every captured by the enemy. They certainly can't expect the enemy to treat them fairly and humanely considering how we have treated our detainees.
This refrain, you don't support the troops, if anyone questions Bush & Company has become very old and tired. You trolls need to kick it up a notch if you expect anyone to ever pay attention to you again.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:56 pmYou trolls need to kick it up a notch if you expect anyone to ever pay attention to you again.
Comment by Kate Henry — June 17, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
I'd be happier if they shut it down. :)
June 17th, 2007 at 11:58 pmDon’t underestimate me.
Comment by Merlin — June 17, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
I did not under or over estimate you. I did not estimate you at all. I merely responded to your calling me a chickenhawk, which of course, I am not.
Chicken perhaps, but definately not chickenhawk.
Bok bok.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:00 amThat’s exactly what the Bush Crime Family is, our governmental Mafia.
Comment by Kate Henry — June 17, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
Well if thats true then I wish they'd take some lessons from the real mafia. At least then they'd be somewhat competent.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:02 amEr ah, that was because he WAS
June 18th, 2007 at 12:03 am#134- Merlin, you ol' "used car huckster" you!! Just a quick note to point out your erroneous "CONclusion" - Progressives could booost their credibility if they would actually WAIT for the entire battalion presence BEFORE jump-starting their trademark whining.....but when have anti-war types EVER waited to see if a battle plan or strategy might succeed??
#136 - Wayne - Thanks for the correction! I meant to type "prescribe"!!
While the Constitution does not PRESCRIBE party politics, a third party is watered down in republican (small "r") politics. (i.e. Bernie Sanders votes with the Dems as his Independent/Socialist Party carries no legislative weight.) Unfortunately, even though coalitions of 2nd and 3rd parties can band together for legislative purposes, they are in no position to utilize power for the purpose of pro-active legislative work. To reiterate, I think the power of the progressive Left could have more impact if the Left expanded their base of operations beyond the predictable Labour/Entitlement/Anti-war base and worked strategically to turn the behemoth of the Dems toward a more clearly defined Left platform and abandon the rudderless stance of too many Dems.
I'm happy your blog is back - I enjoy reading your opinions.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:05 amEr ah, that was because he WAS working for the MAFIA, just looking at the pattern of corruption from the White House down, they are an organized criminal mob.
IGNORE THE TROLLS - Debate good, VV sucks
June 18th, 2007 at 12:05 amMaybe we could get them a copy of "How to make friends, before wacking them", by Noodles Zambini
Or maybe the mob has training classes or something. That would be good.
When you graduate you could wear a "capo" and gown.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:05 amjust looking at the pattern of corruption from the White House down, they are an organized criminal mob.
Comment by Buck Fush — June 18, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Oh I beg to differ.
Theres nothing organized about them.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:07 amKate - I have a question for you - When did radical Koranimals begin sawing heads off of captued Americans and Brits? Before or after they were subjected to waterboarding, sleep deprivation and sensory overload?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:09 amKate - I have a question for you - When did radical Koranimals begin sawing heads off of captued Americans and Brits? Before or after they were subjected to waterboarding, sleep deprivation and sensory overload?
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:09 am
Venus - I have an answer for you - Somewhere around the time Isabella, ordered 5000 of their heads to be cut off, because they recanted their forced conversions to Christianity.
At least thats one example.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:13 amTP - Interesting you put the this article re: the US military under the headings "Terrorism" and "Human Rights" and ignore (or more precisely, fail to report) the activities of our enemies.......no bias there...no sirreeee.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:14 amThe Bush administration is exactly like working for the mafia.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:15 amComment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:13 am
So you're saying it was before "they were subjected to waterboarding, sleep deprivation and sensory overload"
June 18th, 2007 at 12:17 amI'm saying, Christians have been killing Muslims for a long, long time. That hasn't changed today.
We're not winning any friends in the muslim world by killing more muslims, or invading muslim holy land, not to mention what its doing to our relationship with the arab people as a whole.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:19 amTP - Interesting you put the this article re: the US military under the headings “Terrorism†and “Human Rights†and ignore (or more precisely, fail to report) the activities of our enemies…….no bias there…no sirreeee.
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:14 am
What's wrong NeoNazi st*pid c*nt? Forget that the US Military was supposed to be involved in dealing with "Terrorism", and not violating HUMAN RIGHTS? Or in your NeoNazi world, do you only fixate on the IMMORALITY of OTHERS, and believe that YOU CAN BE A TERRORIST to FIGHT A TERRORIST?
Tell me TORANIMAL? Why is it you believe that YOUR TERRORISM is somehow SPECIAL? Or are you just too much of a st*pid c*nt to realize how INSANE you look - ANOREXIA GIRL?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:19 am†and ignore (or more precisely, fail to report) the activities of our enemies…….no bias there…no sirreeee.
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Question oh legend of thine own mind.
When exactly did the Iraqi people, become our enemies?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:20 amThank you, Bartlebee for your sideways answer...- Of course your answer is completely irrelevant in this war.....except when considering we are facing an enemy with a mindset so mired in the past. A dangerous combination....7th century "problem" solving with 21st Century technology - a lethal, stagnant and hideous culture....
'til later.....
June 18th, 2007 at 12:20 amWe’re not winning any friends in the muslim world by killing more muslims, or invading muslim holy land, not to mention what its doing to our relationship with the arab people as a whole.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:19 am
I say fukc 'em, let's bomb Jerus*lem, Mecca, and the Vatican.
(that is, once we have cleared out the civilians)
June 18th, 2007 at 12:21 amThank you, Bartlebee for your sideways answer…
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:20 am
Fit perfectly with your sideways question, did it not?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:22 am** Note to Bartlebee - We will NEVER win any friends in the MUSLIM world - BTW, please elaborate - WHICH Muslims were WE killing when September 11th took place...or the Embassy bombings....or WTC1????
Tooodles......
June 18th, 2007 at 12:23 amI say fukc ‘em, let’s bomb Jerus*lem, Mecca, and the Vatican.
(that is, once we have cleared out the civilians)
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 18, 2007 @ 12:21 am
Well I imagine the EU might frown somewhat on that approach...
June 18th, 2007 at 12:24 am** Note to Bartlebee - We will NEVER win any friends in the MUSLIM world -
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:23 am
Not with lunatics like you guys running the show, thats for sure.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:25 amWell I imagine the EU might frown somewhat on that approach…
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Fine, we can bomb Hollywood as well.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:26 amWHICH Muslims were WE killing when September 11th took place…or the Embassy bombings….or WTC1????
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:23 am
Well if you actually had a brain, you'd have listened to the reasons THEY gave for doing those things. But since you don't have a brain, and collectively, your entire party (nazi party) doesn't have a collective brain, you proceeded to do the very things they were mad at us about in the first place, to the tenth power.
Strategy, logic and common sense are lost on you "feel good patriots".
Our biggest enemy right now is not the terrorists.
Its you.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:28 amFine, we can bomb Hollywood as well.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 18, 2007 @ 12:26 am
Hmmm, I'd imagine NORAD would have a thing or two to say about that.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:30 amP.S. BartleBEE - Osama, Ahmed, Said and Mohammad are anxious to be friends with YOU too!! They appreciate your open minded appreciation of Islamist culture and appreciate your unswerving opposition to conservatives and other infidels....
Toooodles..........
June 18th, 2007 at 12:30 amValiant Venus, with her 25 cent plastic flag, her JC Penny US Flag lapel pin, and her "Support our Troops" bumper sticker.
Theres your next generation hero folks.
No brain. No brawn. Just brass balls and bullshit.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:33 amWhen questioned as to Major General Taguba’s reassignment, President Bush replied, he just wasn’t the very model of a modern Major General.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 17, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
Taguba said. “I’d been in the Army thirty-two years by then, and it was the first time that I thought I was in the Mafia.“
To which Mr Bush replied “fergettabboudittâ€
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Bartlebee, are you a comedy writer, because these were priceless.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:33 amP.S. BartleBEE - Osama, Ahmed, Said and Mohammad are anxious to be friends with YOU too!!
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:30 am
Newsflash Patton.
They're not in Baghdad.
:|
Try buying a globe.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:34 amHey Valiant Anus. Question.
How would you like to star in a new TV Game show we're doing?
Its called "Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden".
:|
Should be a real blockbuster.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:35 amBartlebee, are you a comedy writer, because these were priceless.
Comment by shane — June 18, 2007 @ 12:33 am
No, but I play one on TP.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:36 amRead through this post several times! It is a wonderful lesson on how con men work, from car lots to snake oil salesmen in real life, not just here on TP.
Comment by Merlin
Great post Merlin. It's like you've disected VV's brain. Hopefully it is postmortem.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:38 am“I thought I was in the Mafiaâ€
You were right. That’s exactly what the Bush Crime Family is, our governmental Mafia.
Heaven help us. Hopefully we will survive them and once again become the great nation we once were.
Comment by Kate Henry
Not exactly the Mafia though Kate. The Mafia always protected the lives of children. And Bushco thinks nothing of the lives of Iraqi children.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:40 amThank you, Bartlebee for your sideways answer…- Of course your answer is completely irrelevant in this war….. Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:20 am
Pure PROJECTION. Sideways answers are YOUR SPECIALTY - ST*PID C*NT!
except when considering we are facing an enemy with a mindset so mired in the past. Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:20 am
You should know NEO-NAZI TORANIMAL!!!
A dangerous combination….7th century “problem†solving with 21st Century technology - a lethal, stagnant and hideous culture… ’til later….. Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:20 am
A ST*PID C*NT with her head stuck up her FIRST CENTURY *SS is in NO POSITION to LECTURE about OTHERS - you LETHAL STAGNANT HATEFUL PIECE OF SH*T!
** Note to Bartlebee - We will NEVER win any friends in the MUSLIM world - BTW, please elaborate - WHICH Muslims were WE killing when September 11th took place…or the Embassy bombings….or WTC1???? Tooodles…… Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:23 am
Oh, DEAR ST*PID C*NT! Maybe you should tell GWB to stop swapping spit and holding hands with them then? Or maybe to go AFTER OSAMA? As for making friends with MUSLIMS - we TORANIMALS like you NEVER INTENDED to make friends with them. After all, they were sitting ON THE LAND YOU STOLE FAIR AND SQUARE - RIGHT C*NT? You're such an insufferable b!tch.
P.S. BartleBEE - Osama, Ahmed, Said and Mohammad are anxious to be friends with YOU too!! They appreciate your open minded appreciation of Islamist culture and appreciate your unswerving opposition to conservatives and other infidels…. Toooodles………. Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:30 am
Did your FELLOW CONSERVATIVES tell you that BEFORE OR AFTER you stopped supporting them in their FIGHT AGAINST THE INFIDEL COMMIES? You MISERABLE NAZI C*NT?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:43 amI’m happy your blog is back - I enjoy reading your opinions.
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 12:05 am
Again, thank you for the kind words. But, alas, I must once again respectfully disagree.
I believe you proceed from a false assumption. Why must the goal to be the one and only powerful party? With all due respect, that is one of the problems I have with conservative authoritarian thinking. It borders on a dictatorial mindset. The idea that you have to have one and only one person in charge, and that this person has to be obeyed by everyone is antithetical to the concept of a free society. It is, in short, anti-American.
Since you read my blog, you know that besides being Liberal/Libertarian in my thinking, I also a little Humanist. (I say "a little" because I haven't read up entirely on their philosophies, but of what I have read, I think they would like me.) And my Libertarian side rejects the idea of blind submission to authority as unproductive and regressive. We are all human beings on this planet. Me, Jane, and you, are all equals in that none of us is "better" than the others. As a society, we function better, achieve more, and enjoy a better quality of life when we work together to solve our problems. (True, a dictator could have a well-functioning society that achieves a great deal, but at the cost of quality of life for his citizens.)
And to that end, we must examine the issues from a variety of perspectives, not just the two diametrically opposed, often extreme viewpoints. That's why I support throwing out all the Dem's and Repub's and electing a whole new Congress made up of people from as many political parties and viewpoints as possible. And you should see that this would be better. The corporatists would have their own candidates (bought and paid for, I'm sure - hehe) who would ensure that Corporate America's views are brought to the debate while the Environmentalists could see that what they have to say is heard. All this in addition to the Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, Right-to-Life, and, yes, even the remaining Democrats and Republicans whose views would be heard, as opposed to just two parties who could decide for everyone what was important and what wasn't.
I admit it would take a lot of courage for you to go into that voting booth and vote for a Conservative Party candidate,or a Right-to-Life Party candidate, instead of a Republican Party candidate. But under my idea, you could still vote for the Republican if that person was running on another party line, just vote for him on that line. If your state requires that a Member of Congress be identified by the party that gave him the most votes, then other people choosing alternative parties could help bring that party a plurality. No party should have an absolute majority in Congress. This makes it no better than a one-party government, and I know you're not fond of those. Be brave! You won't be alone. I'll be doing it, too, so we'll sort of cancel each other out. :)
Well, I know you're on the left coast and I'm on the right coast (go figure), so that means it's bedtime for this little Bonzo. Since I now have a computer at home and can check my blog from here, I would be happy to carry on with this discussion on my blog. Don't worry, I don't censor people (except the spam mails). I'm looking for real, honest debate so I can learn myself and better solidify my own reasoning. And if you're willing to do it, I'll be there.
Thanks again for the kind words, and thank you everyone for allowing us to use up so much of the thread. I hope you weren't beaten up terribly while I was typing all of this. (Okay, maybe a little. he-he. Just kidding.)
Have a good night everyone. And if she reponds politely to my post, I ask that you return the favor and respond as I would - with civility.
Good night, Everybody.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:44 amI have a question for you - When did radical Koranimals begin sawing heads off of captued Americans and Brits? Before or after they were subjected to waterboarding, sleep deprivation and sensory overload?
Comment by valiant venus
MOST of us learned in kindergarten that two wrongs don't make a right. Why is it you people still can't figure it out, limited intellect?
June 18th, 2007 at 12:44 amYou know, I've been a little hard on you Valiant Heinous.
Maybe invading Iraq, and blowing the country back into the stone could be considered part of the hunt for the man who actually attacked us on 911.
After all, you guys have ruled on one place on earth where Osama Bin Laden ISN'T hiding.
:|
At this rate we should have him safely behind bars and ready to stand trial about 200 years after he's dead.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:48 amGive or take a decade or two...
June 18th, 2007 at 12:51 amI'm feeling much safer now.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:51 amMOST of us learned in kindergarten that two wrongs don’t make a right. Why is it you people still can’t figure it out, limited intellect? Comment by shane — June 18, 2007 @ 12:44 am
The st*pid c*nt suffers from both limited intellect and deficient morality. The combination is referred to as a NEOCON. An insufferable creature of immense arrogance, only exceeded by its intense ignorance and immorality.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:52 amComment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:00 am
You said:
I merely responded to your calling me a chickenhawk, which of course, I am not.
Chicken perhaps, but definately not chickenhawk.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. You are not an AWOL chickenhawk. BUSH IS. I did not think my statement would be misread.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:53 amIt's all good Merlin.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:53 amThey appreciate your open minded appreciation of Islamist culture and appreciate your unswerving opposition to conservatives and other infidels….
Toooodles……….
Comment by valiant venus
I have muslim neighbors from Jordan. Many of us do. Because you live in you're double-wide trailer in bumf*ck nowhere you may not realize this that muslims are humans. Shocking isn't it. I would prefer my daughter hang out with the Jordanian children across the street than with the kind of children small minded, trailer trash, beer guzzling white folks like you. I understand people like you have to denigrate others to make yourself feel better about your pathetic existence but really there is nothing lower than American White Trash like you. Really what is your excuse for the ignorance you exhibit here, never mind, there isn't any.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:54 am"Valiant Venus, with her 25 cent plastic flag, her JC Penny US Flag lapel pin, and her “Support our Troops†bumper sticker."
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:33 am
All made in China.
"No, but I play one on TP."
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:36 am
And will you "be here all of the week"?:D
June 18th, 2007 at 12:56 amAnd will you “be here all of the week�:D
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 18, 2007 @ 12:56 am
Well I'm doing the Laugh Factory on Thursday but you guys have been a really swell audience so we'll see what we can do.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:58 am“No, but I play one on TP.â€
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 18, 2007 @ 12:36 am
And will you “be here all of the week�:D
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
You both are smokin'!
June 18th, 2007 at 12:59 amTurns out Major General Antonio M. Taguba had it right. He was smack dab in the middle of the Bushit mafia.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:59 amI have muslim neighbors from Jordan. Many of us do. Because you live in you’re double-wide trailer in bumf*ck nowhere you may not realize this that muslims are humans. Shocking isn’t it.
Comment by shane — June 18, 2007 @ 12:54 am
I think they spray for muslims in her neighborhood.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:00 amIt's a shame they don't spay rednecks in her neighborhood, would have a good effect on the gene pool.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:02 amYou both are smokin’!
Comment by shane — June 18, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Don't I wish! ;-)
June 18th, 2007 at 1:05 amYou both are smokin’!
Comment by shane — June 18, 2007 @ 12:59 am
Yea but I'm trying to quit.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:06 amComment by RUCerious — June 18, 2007 @ 1:02 am
VV's neighborhood is in the San Diego area (right, VV? Are you still in SD?). I have to admit, I do love SD!
June 18th, 2007 at 1:08 amHey Jane, I like San Diego, have lots of friends that live there, but there is that one dark spot that is Vile and Venal.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:12 amVV’s neighborhood is in the San Diego area (right, VV? Are you still in SD?). I have to admit, I do love SD!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
But would you live in an area that housed a VV? Not me, no way! I'll live next door to any ethnic group, but I draw the line at white trash.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:13 amShane - As usual, you miss the pointed difference between radical Islam and moderate Muslims (your neighbours, perhaps?) Hmmm....I wonder why they live here? To get away from radical, oppressive Islamists???? Who'da thunk?
Tooodles........
June 18th, 2007 at 1:14 amIt’s a shame they don’t spay rednecks in her neighborhood, would have a good effect on the gene pool.
Comment by RUCerious
VV and her type are like cockroaches. All survivors of the first spaying are immune to that pesticide. I'm sure she's been sprayed many time.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:15 amShane - As usual, you miss the pointed difference between radical Islam and moderate Muslims (your neighbours, perhaps?) Hmmm….I wonder why they live here? To get away from radical, oppressive Islamists???? Who’da thunk?
Tooodles……..
except when considering we are facing an enemy with a mindset so mired in the past. A dangerous combination….7th century “problem†solving with 21st Century technology - a lethal, stagnant and hideous culture….
’til later…..
We will NEVER win any friends in the MUSLIM world - BTW, please elaborate - WHICH Muslims were WE killing when September 11th took place…or the Embassy bombings….or WTC1????
Tooodles……
Comment by valiant venus
I missed the difference? Maybe calling them Koranimals shows that your mindset is as mired as anybody's. I didn't see any differentiating in your post, venal.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:22 amYes, Jane, I still live in San Diego. It's a great little city!! And shane, dear, you wouldn't know me if you lived next door to me. (Wouldn't that be your worst nightmare??!!) Most people (liberal or conservative), foolishly leap to the conclusion I am a liberal when they hear I "defend" criminals (the idiots forget I defend criminal defendants' Constitutional RIGHTS).
Tooodles.....
June 18th, 2007 at 1:24 amYes, Jane, I still live in San Diego. It’s a great little city!! Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Okay, on that we can agree!
Once again, goodnight, all!
June 18th, 2007 at 1:28 amI defend criminal defendants’ Constitutional RIGHTS).
Tooodles…..
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 1:24 am
So, you acknowledge that criminal defendents have constitutional rights. That's encouraging to hear. There may just be some hope for you yet. :-)
Yes, I said I was going to bed, but I stuck around in the hopes that my words above might have "reached" you, but I guess I was just being what you would call a "naive liberal."
Oh, well. Have a good night out there on the "Left" coast. :)
Bed time! This time for sure!
June 18th, 2007 at 1:31 amSorry, but the doctrine of Sovereign Immunity would bar criminal charges against Heads of State. That's why impeachment must come first.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:49 amWayne - Check your blog - surprisingly, you have jumped to conclusions....
Tooodles........
June 18th, 2007 at 1:49 amAnd shane, dear, you wouldn’t know me if you lived next door to me. (Wouldn’t that be your worst nightmare??!!)
Comment by valiant venus
I might not know who you are but I would know very quickly what you are. And there is no chance we'd ever strike up a friendship so no nightmares for me vv.
June 18th, 2007 at 1:55 amI “defend†criminals (the idiots forget I defend criminal defendants’ Constitutional RIGHTS).
Tooodles…..
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Yet you could not name the Constitutional Rights violated in the Padilla case.
Tell me, did the U.S. surrender in Vietnam?
June 18th, 2007 at 2:02 amYet you could not name the Constitutional Rights violated in the Padilla case.
Tell me, did the U.S. surrender in Vietnam?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — June 18, 2007 @ 2:02 am
Good one BnF. I almost posted how none of us believe the attorney line but figured vv wasn't worth the effort. You handled it much better anyway.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:05 amThanks, Shane.
And I want to keep asking the question, "Did the US surrender in Vietnam?" each time someone accuses others of wanting to surrender in Iraq.
The fact is, we left Vietnam. After awhile, they got tired of killing each other and now we have Vietnamese restaurants. All the predictions of doom and gloom were wrong.
But not enough of our kids have died in Iraq ... yet.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:19 amBraid Faire - How many VietNamese were killed (or sent to "re-education" camps) after we "left" Viet Nam? Save your sanctimonious act for those who might fall for it - I don't.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:51 am#206 Comment by Briseadh na Faire — June 18, 2007 @ 2:19 am
And I want to keep asking the question, “Did the US surrender in Vietnam?†each time someone accuses others of wanting to surrender in Iraq.
The fact is, we left Vietnam. After awhile, they got tired of killing each other and now we have Vietnamese restaurants. All the predictions of doom and gloom were wrong.
Spot on BFN! This should be worked into a "frame" or short phrase that will nulify the neocon spin, and bring home that reality to the masses.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:51 amTaguba said that he saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.†The video was not made public in any of the subsequent court proceedings, nor has there been any public government mention of it. Such images would have added an even more inflammatory element to the outcry over Abu Ghraib. “It’s bad enough that there were photographs of Arab men wearing women’s panties,†Taguba said.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/061707A.shtml
June 18th, 2007 at 5:10 amAl-'Arabiya reported that the relatives of 'Abeer al-Janabi, who was raped by US soldiers and killed -- along with three family members -- have refused to accept a financial compensation that was offered to them by the US Army. Al-'Arabiya spoke to the mayor of the village in which the uncles of the 16-year-old victim reside. According to the mayor, the paternal and maternal uncles of al-Janabi have rejected a $100,000 payment that was presented to them by an American officer. The relatives told the US officer that “their main compensation" would be "to witness the execution of the accused soldiers" -- on television, "in the same fashion as Saddam Husain’s execution,†the mayor added.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:18 amI-M-P-E-A-C-H !
(Cheney first.)
June 18th, 2007 at 6:08 amGen. Taguba, Sir: you are my hero!
My grandfather was career Army. He was stationed in the Philippines before World War II, and trained Filipino troops as the Japanese expansion neared. He survived the Bataan Death March, then was a POW for 4 years.
He would be SO proud of you, Sir, for standing up for what is right. For following your training and values and upholding what is good in the US Army. For obeying what every self-respecting, god-fearing, America-loving Army officer and enlisted man knows is his and her duty.
Thank you, Gen. Taguba. You will go down in history books as one of the few real military heros in this dark chapter of American history.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:20 amBraid Faire - How many VietNamese were killed (or sent to “re-education†camps) after we “left†Viet Nam? Save your sanctimonious act for those who might fall for it - I don’t.
Comment by vilevermin
Given your often expessed (here) disdain for people other than Americans, Israelis, and some Brits, it's hard to believe you really cared if Vietnamese got killed or were sent to re-education camps--let alone what happens to what you call Koranimals (ie. Iraqi's--sic-your usual spelling). You have even stated on a previous thread that it would be good to have the Iraqis or Iraqis and Iranians kill each; so to borrow your words, "Save your sanctimonious act for those who might fall for it ." No one here but your fellow trolls do.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:43 amToodle-noodle.
Thanks Lora! You personify the word "aSSume". YOU have no clue how many VietNamese were killed or "re-educated" after we withdrew from VietNam. Ask Braid Faire. Wait- that person is clueless also.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:04 amVileVermin,
June 18th, 2007 at 10:22 amDon't ASSume too much yourself, dearie. I wasn't here to point out the number of Vietnamese who were killed or sent to re-education camps--a number, BTW, you--your non-precious self--haven't given, either. I was only noting your repeatedly expressed disdain for people of nationalities other than American, Israeli, and some Brits. Do I believe you really care what happens to the remaining Iraqis (or as you call them, Koraninals) after US troops leave? Definitely NO. Sorry to rile you so early in the morning.
Noodle-toodle-loo
Ps. VV/Mighty Hypocrite
June 18th, 2007 at 10:24 amIs your reading comprehension really that bad, or do you always try to change the subject to spin it your way--not successfully, I might add?
I “defend†criminals
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Criminals ay?
Well then you should give the White House a call.
I hear they're looking for someone with that specific skillset.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:26 amHundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese officials, particularly ARVN officers, were imprisoned in reeducation camps after the Communist takeover. Tens of thousands died...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Aftermath
Now, as to my question: Did the US surrender in Vietnam?
Are you now saying we are in Iraq to prevent the Iraqis from killing each other?
If so, how do you reconcile that with the fact that nearly 3/4ths of a million Iraqis have died since our invasion?
June 18th, 2007 at 10:29 amSave your sanctimonious act for those who might fall for it - I don’t.
Comment by valiant venus — June 18, 2007 @ 2:51 am
Yet you fell for the "official story" about 9/11.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:32 amAnd if you need references Frau Venus, just have them give us a call.
We'll be happy to vouch for your ability to defend criminals.
:|
After all, you've done a fantastic job of it in here.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:33 amBARTLEBEE is right, Ms. Venus: I could use some new criminal defense lawyers and lawyerettes. I'll even try not to give you the short shrift like Scooter, but I can't promise that. Besides, I'm not so good at keeping promises, you know. After all, I sort of gave of looking for that Bin Laden guy. Hope to hear from you soon.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:36 amToodles for now.
What Taguba said actually insulted the Mafia. I don't think they ever tortured children.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:02 pm223 dianne - -
well said your quite right , no women no children get hurt by the mafia that is an insult to the Maifia
June 18th, 2007 at 1:10 pmI think the person who goes by the name "Nancy Pelosi" has a hard time following the subject-matter at hand. Her responses represent a typical set of responses by administration defenders who have no evidence with which to argue the truth. They engage in childish name-calling, derogatory talking points rhetoric and apparently went to one of those dumbing-down schools that extremists send their children to so they can teach them revisionist history and bigoted religious cult theory.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:19 pmSince she chose to go by the name of a Democratic Representative, she must secretly want to change allegiances but is afraid to do so for fear of being kicked out of the club of fanatics and extremists. No one in their right mind would demean themselves by taking the name of one they despised, as a matter of principle.
We should help her fing her way to the light and away from supporting animalistic and torturous behavior. Admission is the first step to recovery, as Mr. Limbaugh is finding out.
I yield to no one in my concern about human rights. And I oppose indiscriminate torture. But if you disagree, I recommend that you Google "Execution video" and watch a few beheadings.
June 21st, 2007 at 11:13 pm