Snow: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Iraq War Has Helped Stabilize Middle East, It’s ‘Hard To Say’
Snow: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Iraq War Has Helped Stabilize Middle East, It’s ‘Hard To Say’
In November, months before President Bush announced the troop escalation, Jordan’s King Abdullah predicted that three civil wars could erupt in the Middle East in 2007. “We’re juggling with the strong potential of three civil wars in the region, whether it’s the Palestinians, that of Lebanon or of Iraq,” he said.
With the eruption of violence recently in Lebanon and Gaza, Abdullah’s prediction has manifested into a bloody reality.
During today’s press briefing, CNN correspondent Ed Henry asked White House spokesman Tony Snow whether the “war in Iraq has helped push the peace process forward in any way.” Snow’s response: “Don’t know. … Hard to say.” Echoing his claim last week attacks in Iraq were “signs of success,” Snow suggested that the increased violence in the region is a by-product of “pro-democracy movements…making some progress.” Watch it:
But the White House’s uncertainty marks a stark departure from Bush’s confidence in the early stages of the war. In July 2003, Bush stated:
A free Iraq will not destabilize the Middle East. A free Iraq can set a hopeful example to the entire region and lead other nations to choose freedom. And as the pursuits of freedom replace hatred and resentment and terror in the Middle East, the American people will be more secure.
Yesterday on CBS’ Face the Nation, Iraq Study Group co-chair Lee Hamilton offered a very different take than Snow. “The Middle East is in flames,” Hamilton said. “Everywhere you look, there’s deep trouble — Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestinians, the peace process, Iran.” Asked whether the instability was linked to the war, Hamilton replied, “Of course they’re linked.”
Transcript:
QUESTION: The war in Iraq has helped push the peace process forward in any way…
SNOW: Don’t know. I mean, what I don’t think is — quite often people say, Well, you can’t — you’re not focusing on the Middle East because you’re focusing on Iraq. These are all related.
As the president has pointed out before, when pro-democracy movements seem to be making some progress — Lebanon, for instance — there are actions that are designed to derail it. This is part of the larger war on terror, and we, in fact, remain fully engaged on all fronts.
QUESTION: But before the war the president said that taking out Saddam Hussein would help stabilize the Mideast. Do you think that’s turned out to be true?
SNOW: Hard to say. I mean, what you saw, for instance, was very — some very swift change of behavior on the part of Libya. Certainly we continue to work closely with our other allies in the region. But it is also clear that Al Qaida’s doing whatever it can to try to destabilize, and it is our commitment not only to fight back against Al Qaida, but to strengthen the forces of democracy.
We continue to support the Siniora government, which at the beginning of this administration was not in place.
So, you know, I think it’s very difficult to come up with a sort of — whoa, careful back there — a sort of glib one-line description of what’s going on in the region.
SNOW: But it is pretty clearly that a lot of people are putting their lives on the line for the cause of democracy in Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan and elsewhere, and we support them.
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“It’s hard to say…”
with a straight face.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:07 pmIt’s hard to say..just like it’s hard to say smoking is linked to cancer.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:08 pmIt’s ‘Hard To Say’.
Hard to say what? The truth? Maybe that’s because you’ve never done it before Tony.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:09 pmI think chaos is pretty recognizable, I mean unless you’re in complete denial.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmActually, it’s virtually impossible to say.
Name the part of the Middle East that is considered to be “STABLE.”
No can do?
That’s because everything that has followed the 9/11 False Flag attack to justify the invasion of the Middle East has been intentionally designed to DESTABILIZE THE MIDDLE EAST.
But you knew that, Tony…and lied any way.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmWhat planet is Tony on? Is he in some parallel universe that doesn’t acknowledge the daily carnage in Iraq? 1 million refugees spilling into neighboring countries. How could anyone look at today’s middle east a make an inference about democracy and/or peace and tie that in any way to Iraq?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmStill waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmA free Iraq will not destabilize the Middle East. A free Iraq can set a hopeful example to the entire region and lead other nations to choose freedom. And as the pursuits of freedom replace hatred and resentment and terror in the Middle East, the American people will be more secure.
Why do they think the people in the Mid East want to be free? Given a choice the Palestenians voted for Hamas which wants an Islamic state, ruled by Islamic law.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:13 pmAWWWW Tony, …………………. might want to take a peak at what is going on in Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Might give you a hint or 3.
Either you are wearing the ULTIMATE rose-colored glasses or your chemo has started to work on your brain. Either way, it’s time to step aside and let someone else lie to us for a while.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:14 pmSomebody please adjust Tony’s chemo dosage. Clearly it’s killing off a few too many brain cells.
How’s that “voice of democracy” working for ya in Pakistan, Tony? What happens if they overthrow your puppet Musharaff and we get “Extremist kooks with nukes”?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:15 pm“Don’t know.”
“Hard to say.”
M’Kay….
June 18th, 2007 at 4:15 pm“Still waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
Comment by Roger_Roger — June 18, 2007 @ 4:13 pm”
You CAN’T provide democracy to someone who does NOT WANT IT!!!!!
IDIOT!!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 4:16 pm“It’s difficult to come up with a glib one line answer to describe it”
Kinda like MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?
What an a$$clown.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:17 pmStill waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east.
Roger,
Why should we promote Freedom in the middle east? What reason do we haev to get involved in their cultures and governments?
If the answer is it makes us safer, then it would make them safer if they came and meddled in our affairs as well correct?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:18 pmroger roger roger -
2 points for you: First, your BushCo buddies and their NeoCon circlejerk hasn’t exactly had stellar success (unless you own Halliburton or BlackWater stock). and #2…..When did the rest of the world give us the mandate to create “democracy in the Middle East”? We seem to have destroyed it here in the US of A.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:19 pmRoger_Roger please point out where in our Constitution that we export democracy at the barrel of a gun.
Spread democracy? Thats your Boy King drivel. We do not drink your kool-aid.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:19 pmI Don’t Know’ If Iraq War Has Helped Stabilize Middle East, It’s ‘Hard To Say’
Tony Snow
Tell you what Tony.
Why don’t we arrange an all expenses paid vacation for you and yours to Baghdad? You can stay at the remains of the lovely Baghdad Hilton, and wine and dine with the locals Sheiks and other beautiful people.
When you get back (or should I say “if”?) then it might be a little “easier” for you to say.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:21 pmThe next time Snow claims that increased violence is a sign of progress, someone should ask him how much more violence we need to be able to call the war a success.
If going from 30 to 40 deaths a week is progress, maybe 200 deaths a week would be victory.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pm“Still waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
Comment by Roger_Roger — June 18, 2007 ”
i’m waiting to hear condi’s plan to stop cheney and the o.v.p. from constantly going behind the state department’s back to undermine any chance for foreign policy that’s not informed by years of playing “Risk” while drunk.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:23 pmThat wheezing sound you may have heard this week amid the chaos in Gaza, the carnage in Baghdad and the conflict in Lebanon was the final gasps of the Bush Doctrine in its death throes. Just two years after the President and his neo-conservative allies basked in the glow of their self-proclaimed moment of triumph, the Bush Doctrine of no safe havens for terrorists, American preventive war and democracy promotion is discredited, discarded - and dead.
For the details, see:
June 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pm“The Death of the Bush Doctrine.”
Using the bushco logic, having lots of automobile accidents is an indicator that one is becoming a better driver!
June 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pmwhy would anyone ask this guy a question designed for stupid? and who would care about his answer? these aren’t folks making news, right? they are spokespieholes for serial liars.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pmtony can’t even answer a functional question without checking policy now, and he has changed yes to no so many times it means more talking with the cat.
Still waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
Comment by Roger_Roger — June 18, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Simple. We lead by example. First we achieve democracy and freedom throughout the United States. Then we continue to support international election monitoring efforts, and honor bilateral agreements for civil society, governance, and other institutional development to support democracy in countries that want it.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pmPreemptive war in an unstable part of the world always stabilizes it, doesn’t it?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pmR_R,
Well the way I see it Roger is to maybe spend hundreds of billions of dollars on our citizens for our needs, and the Middle East, the defense contractors, and you can go butt a stump.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:29 pmdemocracy is not a seed you can plant, guys… that myth needs to go away; our people are getting killed…
June 18th, 2007 at 4:30 pmMaybe you lobtards should enroll overmedicated capital crash Kennedy and DUI breastroke Kennedy in your liberal caca-caper driving program.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:33 pmPatrick1,
Two things:
1. Try to make sense
2. Up your dose
June 18th, 2007 at 4:34 pmTony Snow was told that the SUN burned out today,he replyed: “It’s hard to say. I don’t think it’s true. Would someone please turn up the thermostat please?”
June 18th, 2007 at 4:36 pmUsing the lobtard bottom dwelling scavenger logic, having lots of
June 18th, 2007 at 4:37 pmautomobile accidentsMoney in the fridge is an indicator that one is becoming a betterdriver!Dumbocreep.Comment by SouthWest Bob
#
Still waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
Comment by Roger_Roger — June 18, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
#
At this point, after 6 years under the Bush administration, I’m more concerned about restoring freedom and democracy here in the U.S.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:37 pmMaybe you lobtards should enroll overmedicated capital crash Kennedy and DUI breastroke Kennedy in your liberal caca-caper driving program.
Comment by Patrick1 — June 18, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
What the Hell is this?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:38 pmStill waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Sorry RX2, were too busy watching you Republicans destroy democracy here in the good old USA. Hard to think of much else when battling obstruction of justice every day trying to preserve what left of the Constitution.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:39 pmYou aren’t asking the right questions.
The War is going according to plan. The plan was to create a forward staging area for the Central Asian front. Iran and Syria are next on the chopping block. What follows after that will make the slaughters of the 20th Century pale in comparison. If you thought Evil died with Stalin, Hitler and Mao, you are in for a very rude awakening.
Research: P2OG;Thomas Barnett’s “The Pentagon’s New Map”; Project for a New American Century “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”.
200 MILLION killed in the last century, and with the weaponry available now, you can quadruple that at least.
Yes, Tony Snow thinks things are moving along nicely in Iraq and from their point of veiw he is absolutely right.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:39 pmI think Pee1 is slowly growing younger…
June 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pmHis posts are sounding more and more like the drivel of a 10 year old…..
Pat,
Better money in the fridge than sperm in the *ss of little boys as you fascists love.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pmWell it is hard to say that since there is nothing “stable” in the Mideast!
June 18th, 2007 at 4:41 pm“It’s hard to say”–no, no, no, Tony. Just put your lips together and say “Clusterf*ck!!!” Simple, percise, to the point. Just what it is. Not hard to say at all.
BTW look up the definition of stablize and it just might help you (truthfully) answer the question. Stablized? Oh, yeah, the Iraqi Invasion and Occupation has really helped stablized the Middle East. And our troops are right in the middle of all that stablization.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:42 pmMaybe you lobtards should enroll overmedicated capital crash Kennedy and DUI breastroke Kennedy in your liberal caca-caper driving program.
Comment by Patrick1
Dig a little deeper why don’t you P-1nut. Tell you what, we’ll take Laura Bush running kinto her ex-boyfriends car and killing him for Ted going into the water and failing to save his passenger. We won’t even worry about the GWB records that Gonzo expunged. Now could you just STFU.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:42 pmlet’s call it what it is and has always been: a regional, (oil) resource takeover and ‘occupation’ that CREATED all out WAR-this is not a new idea-human beings do this over and over again. We humans have NEVER MADE a COLLECTIVE CHOICE to stop this predictable and utterly tragic pattern. Now, we have created nukes to completely annililate ourselves and poison planet Earth as well…we are in fact, a collectively insane species.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 4:44 pmWhat the Hell is this? Comment by dbadass
Lobtard: Sometimes known as libtard, or lieboretard. A small brained cretaceous beady eyed bottom dwelling life form that scavenges for dead and decaying matter to sustain its pitiful existence.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmYou know….. My neighbor does not think like me…..
I think tonight when I get home I will go and LIBERATE him with my weapon…..
(Sarcasm off)
By the Neocons view, this is what should be done anywhere…….
IDIOTS all of them.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:46 pmDestabilization IS the goal in the Middle East.
An Excerpt from Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties”, written in 1982…
http://www.geocities.com/ alabasters_archive/ zionist_plan.html
June 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pmWhy do people like Patrick want America to be an Empire? That is the antithesis of the Founders idea of a Constitutional Republic. Are you anti-American, Patrick or is Thomas Jefferson?
think about it.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:48 pmonly a real-life person that looks like Lurch’s long lost twin could be that pathetic.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:48 pm.
Patti1″ is an idiot - everything he posts are pure crap - what a laughtard. Rogered_Roger is a repuktard tool.
Gotta admitt it is fun laughing at these fools.
IGNORE THE TROLLS - Debate good, Trolls are idiots
June 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pmThere was a quote from the Vietnam era, which I could swear was from Dick Gregory to the effect that you don’t need to push democracy down people’s throats; if it’s really good, they’ll steal it.
American foreign policy in the middle east (hell, anywhere) has never had a damn thing to do with “spreading democracy”. It is, was, and shall be all about stability. American governments will always turn a blind eye to totalitarianism as long as the despots don’t interfere with our god-giving right to extract resources from the rest of the planet.
We attacked Saddam the first time around because he had the temerity to attack one of our petroleum allies and threaten the oil supply. We attacked Saddam the second time because Cheney and the other psychotic neocons convinced themselves, in the face of all contrary evidence, that a quick painless transition of power to Chalabi could be made and Bush could also look like a proud warrior. All this horse manure about “democracy” is just that: manure.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:49 pmYeah, it’s hard to say. Hard to get the words out. You’re choking on the truth, Snow.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:50 pmYou and Bush are in a different zone of your own reality, Tony, and it’s hard to say the truth, when you manufacture your own facts.
Bush and Co. are ‘through the looking glass’ kinda folks - Black is white, up is down, etc.
If you substitute the word Freedom with Despotism, our spreading of it makes much more sense.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:52 pmI honestly don’t know why the so-called press corps even bothers. They know that all they’re going to get is a mixed bag of lies and things that they already knew.
Might as well just have the spinners issue a daily list of lies/talking points.
Is it just because they need sound bites? But if it’s all lies and warping spin who cares?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:52 pmFor the life of me I do not understand how these people can look themselves in the mirror in the morning and not hurl. I guess the quest for power is so great that people like Tony Snow will prostitute themselves for whatever end is reachable. More and more each day i am becoming disgusted with being an American. American Airlines has a nonstop from Kennedy to Buenos Aires each night at 10:00 pm. It might be wise to board that plane on a one-way flight if this crap continues.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pmPreemptive war in an unstable part of the world always stabilizes it, doesn’t it?
Comment by Kevin Good
Yeah, just like torching a pile of hay will keep the cows fed. =P
June 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pmOther than the trolls here, who ever believes anything said by SNow-job or his little sidekick, Perky Perino? Me thinks even the trolls are losing faith, as their current posts are showing.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pmI think we’d be better off if the reporters who had to sit and listen to Snow tell them talking points and obfuscations every day would go out and FIND the story, find the “Deep Throat”, find the paperwork, follow the money and act like freaking reporters for a change! Where are the mavericks? Helen Thomas is too old to be doing this on her own, where are the bright young, idealistic journalists with energy and a zeal for the truth?
I mean, really.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:55 pm“With the eruption of violence recently in Lebanon and Gaza, Abdullah’s prediction has manifested into a bloody reality.”
Dang, Abdullah is psychic! Who else could possibly have predicted the eruption of violence in Lebanon and Gaza?
June 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmFor the life of me I do not understand how these people can look themselves in the mirror in the morning and not hurl.
Comment by Ben Dover
That would require a conscience. Snowflake’s body knows, doesn’t it? It’s eating him from the inside….
June 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmI don’t like Tony’s willingness to lie so much, but in viewing his current look, I have compassion for him, he looks like hell.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pmTP is like the Herman Meunster screwlock ziptop neck bolt crowd of illiterate regolithic chiropteras
Long Live Alexander Hamilton and the Pirates of Penitente.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pmSo if an increase in violence is labelled as proof of the success of the surge, would a DECREASE in violence have been seen as a FAILURE?
Or is that just too logical???
June 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pmLobtard: Sometimes known as libtard, or “lieboretard”….
OOOOH… I GET IT EVERYONE!!!!
“lieboretard”= LIEBERMAN SUPPORTER!!! I think we can all get behind Patrick..
“cough”
…and support him on this!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:00 pmPee1-did someone find mommy and daddy’s dictionary again??
June 18th, 2007 at 5:01 pm“TP is like the Herman Meunster screwlock ziptop neck bolt crowd of illiterate regolithic chiropteras
Long Live Alexander Hamilton and the Pirates of Penitente.
Comment by Patrick1 — June 18, 2007″
sounds like those ‘hooked on phonics’ tapes are paying off!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:02 pmPatrick your post does not pass the Meunster.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:03 pm#52 Ben, good point.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:03 pmI was hoping one morning to see the press just leave a bunch of cardboard standup cutouts at a press conference, complete with empty notepads and pens sticking out of their noses.
For the life of me I do not understand how these people can look themselves in the mirror in the morning and not hurl
Its easy for you libtard regolithic chiroptera when you dont create a reflection.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:05 pmLobtard: Sometimes known as libtard, or lieboretard. A small brained cretaceous beady eyed bottom dwelling life form that scavenges for dead and decaying matter to sustain its pitiful existence.
Comment by Patrick1 — June 18, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
Thanks for that. As a lover of natural history and evolutionary biology can you list the complete taxa relative to this organism. I realize that Linnaean classification is taking a backseat to more the PROGRESSIVE ideas of cladistics/systematics but none the less it will allow me to place the critter in some context. When did it diverge from the more primitive conservative members of cladigram?
June 18th, 2007 at 5:06 pmJune 18th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
If nothing else, the video proves that Tony Snow is a superior political spokesman. He mouths empty platitutes that contain all the buzz words and says absolutely nothing. You’ve got to admire a man that has cancer, is being treated for it and Still manages to make the absolute nonsense he has to spout sound plausible. If it was me, I’d have to admit that this particular flight has long since Crashed and Burned. If he was the spokesman for Captain Smith of the RMS Titanic, he’d be saying he wasn’t sure the water was a problem till his hat started floating.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:07 pmWhen did it diverge from the more primitive conservative members of cladigram?
Comment by dbadass
Go eat your brain scholarly seasquirt and revert back to your prehistoric nervous system.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThat would require a conscience. Snowflake’s body knows, doesn’t it? It’s eating him from the inside….
Comment by Zooey — June 18, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Ah, humanity and compassion. Very refreshing. ;)
June 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by dbadass — June 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
A decade old barnacle on a whales ass. Pictorial enuff?
June 18th, 2007 at 5:10 pmpatrick, better get mommy on the intercom and get her down to the basement with your meds, this could get serious, Dude!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:10 pmlet me help you snow, you assclown, NO IT FREAKIN’ HASN’T IN FACT, IT HAS DESTABILIZED THE REGION
June 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pmGo eat your brain scholarly seasquirt and revert back to your prehistoric nervous system.
Comment by Patrick1 — June 18, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
this is even better than….
Maybe you lobtards should enroll overmedicated capital crash Kennedy and DUI breastroke Kennedy in your liberal caca-caper driving program.
Comment by Patrick1
You rock!! I have to get off to work but I am sure a trifecta is on the way
June 18th, 2007 at 5:12 pmBest!
You rock!! Comment by dbadass
Thanks. =)
June 18th, 2007 at 5:15 pmWhy does Tony Faux hate the Iraq Study Group!??
June 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm#76,
awww, Patrick1 has found a butt buddy…
June 18th, 2007 at 5:17 pmScuse me Barbie?
June 18th, 2007 at 5:19 pmPoor pattipiss can’t even tell when it’s being played like an out of tune steel drum.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:19 pmSnow: ‘I Don’t Know’ If Iraq War Has Helped Stabilize Middle East, It’s ‘Hard To Say’
Not to mention, IT’S AN IRRELEVANT QUESTION!!!!!!!!
The whole point of our noble War on Terror is to exterminate the Muslim Shiteaters ™
This entails destroying the stability of the Mid-East in which they sought refuge and could comfortably sit back and eat a nice big steaming pile of Muslim Shit.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pmAh, humanity and compassion. Very refreshing. ;)
Comment by upright left
As if you’d recognize it if you saw it.
Do you deny that our actions have an effect on our bodies?
June 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pmYou know PIP there has a point! It IS an irrelvant question because instability is apparently what they were aiming for!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:22 pmPoor pattipiss Comment by RUCerious
Thats actually kinda funny. Heh.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pmScuse me Barbie?
Comment by dbadass
Even funnier. =)
June 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pmGo eat your brain scholarly seasquirt and revert back to your prehistoric nervous system.
Comment by Patrick1 — June 18, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
At least then you’d have a twin.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pmThis entails destroying the stability of the Mid-East in which they sought refuge and could comfortably sit back and eat a nice big steaming pile of Muslim Shit.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 18, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
June 18th, 2007 at 5:27 pmWhen Saddam ruled….number of alQaeda = 0
When Saddam was toppled…number of alQaeda = lots
When Saddam ruled…number of terrorist attacks in Iraq = 0
When Saddam was toppled….number of terrorist attacks in Iraq = lots
At least then you’d have a twin.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
At least my twin wouldn’t be stuck to backside and provide cushion.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:30 pmbush’s legacy = “I mean, what you saw, for instance, was very — some very swift change of behavior on the part of Libya.”
June 18th, 2007 at 5:31 pmTony, that was almost as good as the chymps comment “Too many OB-GYNs aren’t able to practice their love with women all across this country.”
June 18th, 2007 at 5:34 pm#87 Badger
To continue on that thread:
When Saddam ruled…..amount of money made by Halliburton in Iraq = 0
June 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhen Saddam was toppled….amount of money made by Halliburton in Iraq = Billions
When Saddam ruled…..number of Blackwater mercenaries in Iraq = 0
When Saddam was toppled….number of Blackwater mercenaries in Iraq = >100,000
As if you’d recognize it if you saw it.
Do you deny that our actions have an effect on our bodies?
Comment by Zooey — June 18, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
I see compassion regularly, zoo, but rarely here. Living an unhealthy lifestyle definitely affects our bodies. Sometimes we become ill for no apparent reason. Does having a viewpoint opposite from progressives make us physically ill? I’d have to say no as conservatives don’t seem to have any higher rate of illness than liberals. But, if you have any statistics to show otherwise, I love to see them.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:39 pmSee Patti1″ posts
See Patti1″ post crap
See Patti1″ pound the keyboard
See Patti1″ is angry
See Patti1″ wants attention
See how pathetic Patti1″ truly is…
Awwww poor Patti1″ isn’t loved by anyone
Poor Patti1″
You just suck so bad it is laughable
June 18th, 2007 at 5:41 pmThe important thing is that it stabilized oil prices…at $50 a barrel.
When President Clinton was in office, oil was $20 dollars a barrel.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pm#94 War4sale =
Is it me or does the fact that Dubya lost his ass in 3 oil companies before he was the Commander Guy, but now all his buddies (and campaign contributors) are making BILLIONS seem a bit crazy??
June 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pmWar4Sale–
June 18th, 2007 at 6:00 pmnews flash–oil was just a smidge below $70 a barrel today…..
Upright left, when you justify the killing of civilians in a civil war that broke loose after US invaded, when you justify that bombing Iraq for over 10 years before the invasion breaking international law, when you justify the destruction of a country for the sake of safety…karma will catch up.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:04 pmNow it’s official: Tony’s chemotherapy regimen has definitely killed off some working synapses in his brain - leaving him pretty “empty” in the noggin. Side effect of chemo I guess.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:07 pmDo you mean to tell me that Snowflake Tony has any form of real audience these days? No one I know would listen to him for two seconds! He’s a laughingstock and a joke…..and a very sick man.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pmPffft - it’s really easy to see what happened here. When Ed Henry asked White House spokesman Tony Snow whether the “war in Iraq has helped push the peace process forward in any way”, Tony Snow heard “Do you speak French?”, for which his reply was, “Don’t know….hard to say.”
See? It’s easy to see the mistake, how could he NOT answer the way he did. Next time they should ask, “…has the occupation of Iraq helped to push the peace process forward in any way?†He thought Ed Henry was talking about something else.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:11 pmDon’t knock Tony, folks. He’s telling the truth, for once.
It is indeed hard to say, w/ a straight face, that the Iraq War has helped stabilize the Middle East. Really, I’m having a hard time keeping a straight face right now… ***snicker… snicker***…
June 18th, 2007 at 6:13 pm“If them A-rabs are too busy killing themselves, that means they’re too busy to kill us. The Bush doctrine works.”
June 18th, 2007 at 6:25 pmMay Snow enjoy a long and healthy life. I wish him nothing but success in his battle with cancer.
May it be so. But I wonder, at the end of a long life, he will experience a ‘Lee Atwater epiphany’, a moment in which he realizes- and acknowledges- the great damage his studied lies have inflicted on the national political discourse.
(My bet is no, he will not).
June 18th, 2007 at 6:27 pmI think they have a dictionary issue;
From the BushCo standardized English dictionary:
Stabilize:
1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
June 18th, 2007 at 6:27 pmI find it amazing that Tony Snow returned to that job. I would think he would consider both his physical health and expecially his spiritual health and get a job that doesn’t require breaking the 10 Commandments and kissing the ass of the likes of GWB. There’s already a special place in hell for all of them!
June 18th, 2007 at 6:47 pmAre you kidding??????????
June 18th, 2007 at 6:48 pmWhy do news organizations even cover White House press briefings? It’s all lies and spin. Why report it?
June 18th, 2007 at 6:56 pmWar4Sale: “When President Clinton was in office, oil was $20 dollars a barrel.”
Question for redneck truckers: Who does more harm to your livelihood - a president who gets a couple of illicit blowjobs or a president who causes chaos in the Middle East?
June 18th, 2007 at 6:57 pmThe tolls are sounding a little drunk today.
I curious what the republican plan to bring democracy to the Mid East is? Also, why would one want to force democracy on a nation. That sounds very reminiscent of the expansionist communism theory that worked wonders for the USSR.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:02 pmWell, maybe next time you listen to King Abdullah, because he lives there with all the refugees? How about sending him a big check for all the good he has done keeping the 60% Palestinians calm in his country, while Mr President screws everything up?
June 18th, 2007 at 7:03 pmRight we just should have kept with the status quo and kicked the can down the road some more.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:35 pm#109 Comment by ben — June 18, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
I curious what the republican plan to bring democracy to the Mid East is?
There never was a plan to do this, as a number of posters on this thread have said. Here is Smack’s comment from above at #34:
Comment by Smack — June 18, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
You aren’t asking the right questions.
The War is going according to plan. The plan was to create a forward staging area for the Central Asian front. Iran and Syria are next on the chopping block… If you thought Evil died with Stalin, Hitler and Mao, you are in for a very rude awakening.
Yes, Tony Snow thinks things are moving along nicely in Iraq and from their point of veiw he is absolutely right.
Well said, Smack. I concur completely.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:41 pmTracy…NO ONE wanted to keep the status quo after Sept. 11. Bush had worldwide and domestic support to get Bin Laden and take down the Taliban. When he kicked the can into Iraq, with NO Evidence that Iraq was involved in the tragic events of Sept. 11, and with shaky evidence that WMD’s existed, and with NO PLAN for Iraq after Saddam was toppled, he began losing his support and the sympathy of the rest of the world. And his detour allowed Bin Laden to live another day.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:45 pm“If you thought Evil died with Stalin, Hitler and Mao, you are in for a very rude awakening.”
Yes the Syrian and Iranian governments filled them well.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:47 pm“Tracy…NO ONE wanted to keep the status quo after Sept. 11. Bush had worldwide and domestic support to get Bin Laden and take down the Taliban.”
Taking out bin Laden or the Taliban wasn’t going to solve the problem of the spread of Islamic fundementalism…which is main problem. When the people of Iran revolt and embrace democracy that might be the beginning of the end in the region of the world.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:52 pmTracy: “When the people of Iran revolt and embrace democracy that might be the beginning of the end in the region of the world.”
Yes, and when pigs grow wings that are big enough, they may get off the ground. What’s your point?
June 18th, 2007 at 7:58 pmTracy: “Taking out bin Laden or the Taliban wasn’t going to solve the problem of the spread of Islamic fundementalism”
Gee, aren’t you one of those clones who kept insisting (erroneously) that Clinton did nothing to get rid of bin Laden. Now that your master has completely failed, you’re singing a different tune. Consitency is not your strong point, young man.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:01 pmDoes Bush have any credibility? “Hard to say.” says
June 18th, 2007 at 8:01 pmTracy….Taking out bin Laden WOULD solve the problem of JUSTICE for those poor souls that died on Sept 11.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:04 pmIf Islamic Fundamentalism is a problem, then is Christian Fundamentalism also a problem??? Talk like that makes you sound like a Crusader.
And the best way to insure the Mullahs control over Iran, is to threaten their country. Look how America reacted when we were threatened. Bush still thinks he is Above the law.
Many Voters in the Middle east EMBRACE islam…they WANT Sharia law. You and I might not like it…but DEMOCRACY means THEY get to decide.
“Taking out bin Laden or the Taliban wasn’t going to solve the problem of the spread of Islamic fundementalism…which is main problem. When the people of Iran revolt and embrace democracy that might be the beginning of the end in the region of the world.”
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
not to point out the obvious tracy BUT, who do you think ARE the islamic fundies? here’s a hint: wahabbi islam as sponsored by bin laden and the taliban. go back to watching faux news since, apparently, FACTS confuse you
June 18th, 2007 at 8:19 pmWell it’s easy for me to say that the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq has greatly DEstabilized the Mid-East.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:56 pmkarma will catch up.
Comment by Juan C — June 18, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Might be problem if karma existed, Juan. It doesn’t, so it isn’t.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:00 pm#122 Comment by upright left — June 18, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
karma will catch up.
Comment by Juan C — June 18, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Might be problem if karma existed, Juan. It doesn’t, so it isn’t.
It is not disputed that stress plays a part in physical problems. Stress weakens the immune system and changes the bodies natural manufacture of needed hormones into those needed for fight or flight. Adrenaline, although necessary at times, is definitely harmful if it is being made all the time. So stress is a double whammy! Reduce3d good hormones and increased “bad” ones. Type “A” people suffer from this.
The job of having to stand in front of questioning journalists every day is stressful when you are lying and deceiving all the time. The fear of making a blunder and getting caught is pretty big. The anxiety of being seen as a fool is present, even if we don’t see it through his well crafted persona.
I don’t believe in religious karma, but the real life “karma” of reaping the effects of what you sow, is real to me. What that payment is, physical or emotional, varies from person to person but it can not be denied.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:27 pmthe people of Iran revolt and embrace democracy that might be the beginning of the end in the region of the world.â€
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
They did that already…. was working just fine for them too…. then along came Kermit Roosevelt
June 18th, 2007 at 9:44 pmStill waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject. - Comment by Roger_Roger
Cripes, what an embarrassment to humanity you are.
It isn’t our place to “achieve” democracy in the ME. We can promote democracy best by being its shining example. We can cause the most damage to the ideals of democracy by pissing all over human rights, violating international law, destroying another country unprovoked, showing disdain for diplomacy, mocking or dismantling international bodies, turning our own country into a rabid theocracy, and maintain power by pathologic lying, cheating, and stealing.
For the past half decade, we’ve been doing precisely the opposite of what we should be doing. Do you still not understand that? Osama’s greatest victory was not knocking down buildings. That was mere collateral damage for him. His greatest victory was empowering the monsters in Washington who are gradually destroying our country from within, by providing the fuel for the politics of hate and fear that are the tools of the theocons.
Trying to force the ME into democracy is like trying to force sense and reason into people like you. As tempting as it would be to track down all of your kind and dismember you slowly and painfully, that would be a poor way to prove the value of the American system. The best way is to be patient during the slow but steady process required to use our system to eliminate your kind from power. That process is only half complete. Nothing, short of a manufactured crisis, will stop that process from completing. And your boys have so completely screwed the pooch, I’m not a manufactured crises might not be enough to stop the process.
2008 cannot possibly come soon enough.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:44 pmTroll Report
A trolls job is to disrupt the thread and make good discussion difficult. It is also to antagonize and push people into making fools of themselves.
Nothing trolls say is meant to be real. Not statements. Not questions, no matter how genuine they sound.
Based on this understanding, there is no way to tell if a troll is crazy, sick, stupid or anything else. The troll is presenting a completely false persona to us.
The bottom line is that all you people who are arguing, calling the troll names or trying to discuss something rationally with one, are simply trying to communicate with a cardboard cutout the troll has created. How does that make you feel???
On this thread there are:
14 troll posts
33 responses to those troll posts
Thats 47 troll related (totally useless) posts out of 122 total posts. About 38%
I’d say that the trolls are doing a very good job. Eh????
June 18th, 2007 at 9:51 pmYes send the freedom America enjoys to the Middle East! We want to share all of our inalienalbe rights, well at least the ones WE still have!? The RIGHT to huh……………..huh…………….huh………………..oh yeah , huh…….I’m thinking………..huh…
June 18th, 2007 at 10:05 pmMerlin - you are right to a point . . . but trolls are important to the ecology in the same manner that flies gives us maggots, maggots eat shit and provide nutrients for growth . . . it is good to hear from the 18% that believe Bush is God, democracy is a commodity that can be airlifted and dropped on those unfortunate ignat mudder phquekkers too stewpid to grow der own . . .
June 18th, 2007 at 10:32 pmSometimes you wonder if some folks actually can’t go outside without adult supervision, then why are they allowed to play on the internets . . . . ????
Only in America can one make enough to buy a Mercedes and lack the skills to drive 55 in the “fast lane” . . . .
I think chaos is pretty recognizable, I mean unless you’re in complete denial.
Comment by Texas Democrat
Or a complete moron, or a pathological liar…
June 18th, 2007 at 10:33 pmWhen the people of Iran revolt and embrace democracy that might be the beginning of the end in the region of the world.
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
Ahmadinejad was democratically elected in 2005.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:44 pmAhmadinejad was democratically elected in 2005.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 18, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Yup, countries are not their to please us, but themselves. Many people in that region prefer a very authortarian existance and will vote that way. Our foreign policy needs to be more working with them as opposed to “Making them more like us”
June 18th, 2007 at 11:08 pmtheir should be there, DOH
June 18th, 2007 at 11:08 pm… it is good to hear from the 18% that believe Bush is God…”
On this point I agree. If that were happening here! As I mentioned, these trolls are nothing more than cardboard cutout figures who are only mouthing things designed to disrupt the thread. They are not really expressing their point of view. It is a created fantasy, troll responders are talking to.
If the idea of coming here is to learn from each other, (the biggest reason, IMO) then it defeats our purpose to play their game. Example:
Here is #7 Comment by Roger_Roger — June 18, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Still waiting to hear the Dem plan to achieve democracy and freedom throughout the middle east. Any plan is better then the blank stare we get from the Dems on the subject.
To this provocation he received 13 responses. Count ‘em! We learn nothing from him and 13 responses were yelled at a cardboard cutout.
Roger Roger never responded to anyone!
This is a typical, not unusual thread. Trolls hyjack almost every thread and many folks here simply don’t realize it. My point is awareness!
Trolls have only one value, IMO, and it is very secondary. That is fun. Having fun with trolls, is different than believing they are real people who “just don’t get it,” or are “stupid” and need enlightening. And the really interesting thing is that when you play in a fun way with them, they don’t respond to you! They know you can’t be “hooked” and are truly on to their psychological games. They have a job to do and fun is not it.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:13 pm#117
Gee, aren’t you one of those clones who kept insisting (erroneously) that Clinton did nothing to get rid of bin Laden.”
He did nothing to get a the root of the problem that fosters terrorism…i.e. Islamic fundementalism.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:17 pmThe U.S. should not forget the committment it made towards the U.N. Millennium Goals in 2000. According to The Borgen Project, an annual $19 billion dollars is needed to end world hunger by the year 2025. To my sense, it is almost unacceptable to have spent so far more than $340 billion in Iraq only, when we have more than war immunities to change the world and eliminate poverty
June 18th, 2007 at 11:18 pm#116
If the Iranian people would revolt and embrace democracy that just might spur other Muslims in other countries to do the same. It’s clear, unfortunately, that the Iraqis don’t have the will power.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:19 pmThe U.S. should not foget the committment made towards the U.N. Millennium Goals in 2000. According to The Borgen Project, an annual $19 billion dollars is needed to end world hunger by the year 2025. To my sense, it is almost unacceptable to have spent so far more than $340 billion in Iraq only, when we have more than war immunities to change the world and eliminate poverty
June 18th, 2007 at 11:20 pm#116
If the Iranian people would revolt and embrace democracy that just might spur other Muslims in other countries to do the same. It’s clear, unfortunately, that the Iraqis don’t have the will power.
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
They did that already…. it was working just fine for them too…. then along came Kermit Roosevelt. Or are you thinking like the Palestinians by electing Hamas?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — June 18, 2007 @ 9:44 pm
June 18th, 2007 at 11:31 pm#119
“Taking out bin Laden WOULD solve the problem of JUSTICE for those poor souls that died on Sept 11.”
Yes it would and I didn’t say that getting bin Laden would’t be worth it. I said it wouldn’t solve the problem.
I”f Islamic Fundamentalism is a problem, then is Christian Fundamentalism also a problem???”
Yes, but to the same degree? Not hardly. Do you expect Christians around the world to start rioting because of this:
http://www.upi.com/ NewsTrack/ Top_News/ 2007/ 06/ 18/ christian_school_church_destroyed_in_gaza/ 8327/
Muslims around the world rioted and people were killed because of a cartoon released in the world press. Not even close.
“Many Voters in the Middle east EMBRACE islam…they WANT Sharia law”
Most citizens in Iran are very pro Western and DO NOT want a government governed by Sharia law. Sharia law and the basic principles of democracy are incompatable.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:32 pm#120
“here’s a hint: wahabbi islam as sponsored by bin laden and the taliban.”
And wahabbi islam is just practiced by bin Laden and the Taliban. Go back to sleep.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:34 pm#124
No that would be that moron named Carter.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:36 pm#125
“2008 cannot possibly come soon enough.”
You actually think people will vote her thighness in?
June 18th, 2007 at 11:38 pmAnd wahabbi islam is just practiced by bin Laden and the Taliban. Go back to sleep.
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Wahabbism#Modern_spread_of_Wahhabism
Er, not quite accurate. Saudi Arabia, most of the Qatar peninsula, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Wahabbi Madrassas all down the African coast to Tanzania…. er, wake up?
June 18th, 2007 at 11:39 pmI hate clichés, but Tony Snow forces it: WHAT PLANET IS HE ON?
June 18th, 2007 at 11:41 pm#130
Was the before of after the Mullahs ejected all the liberal opposition candidates from the presidential race?
http://www.iranfocus.com/ modules/ news/ article.php?storyid=2639
June 18th, 2007 at 11:47 pm#142 Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 11:38 pm
You actually think people will vote her thighness in?
What makes you think “her thighness” will win the primary? Why do you assume (by your question) that she is the choice of Progressives?
June 18th, 2007 at 11:47 pmHe did nothing to get a the root of the problem that fosters terrorism…i.e. Islamic fundementalism.
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
Er, not accurate. Bin Laden’s manifesto states that Israel-Palestine is one of the major reasons for 9-11 attacks. Clinton tried to almost the last breath of his Presidency to complete what Bush-41 started and reach a lasting deal.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:49 pm“#124
No that would be that moron named Carter.
Comment by Tracy — June 18, 2007 @ 11:36 pm”
Now you have me confused there - are you claiming that Jimmy Carter overthrew an elected Iranian government? I think he was in the Navy in 1953 - sorry try again. I said Kermit Roosevelt, not Kermit the Frog.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:51 pmWhat makes you think “her thighness†will win the primary? Why do you assume (by your question) that she is the choice of Progressives?
Comment by Merlin — June 18, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
I think Tracy maybe a troll, let’s see….unless you’ve decided to have some fun that is.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:52 pmTracy - I have news for you pal. The American People are about to revolt and demand Democracy in this country - forget Iran and Syria.
Do a google video search on Ron Paul and see what a real Patriot looks and sounds like.
America has been hijacked by radical fundamentalists but, they aren’t Muslim, they call themselves Republicans.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:54 pm#149 Comment by TerrytheTurtle — June 18, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
I think Tracy maybe a troll, let’s see….unless you’ve decided to have some fun that is.
Shhh! You’re too sharp! Hee Hee
June 18th, 2007 at 11:57 pm“I don’t know if my shit is mooshy and yucky and stinks to high heaven…it’s hard to say.”
June 19th, 2007 at 12:09 amTony, let me help you out here … war helps no one. Not the East, the West, North or South. Or any of the people in between. It is a losing deal for the environment too.
Tony, unless you are a heartless weapons manufacturer that couldn’t give a shit about how many people get killed as long as people buy your weapons, or are a sleazy criminal politician making a fortune off of same, or a scumbag mouth-piece defending these fascist, soulless sub-humans, or an ignorant 20%er fool … oops, never mind.
June 19th, 2007 at 12:17 amFor the good of this country, Tony Snow needs to step down from his position as White House Press Secretary. We can feel sorry for him as he faces his illness and treatments, but we absolutely need a Press Sect. who can present and address the truth about Iraq about in a respectful and honest way. It is dangerous to have a person in this position who can not be counted on to tell the truth.
June 19th, 2007 at 12:31 amMerlin,
Our job as posters is not to eliminate trolls. You will never, ever get enough people to ignore them to make them go away.
It’s TPs responsibility. Many months ago they talked about a registration process, but they’ve done nothing about it. Either they’re too busy to deal with it, don’t care, or they enjoy the resulting traffic.
You want to get TP to conTROLL them? Convince everyone to not post ANYTHING for a week. I think that would do it.
And as someone suggested, completely eliminating the trolls would be as bad as completely eliminating bacteria from your gut. Sounds good on paper, but the digestive process needs bacteria in order to be able to separate the nutrients from the $hit.
June 19th, 2007 at 12:40 amTony Snow should be in jail.
Along with Ari Fleisher , Scottie McClellen and Dana Perino.
Liars all.
June 19th, 2007 at 1:34 amWho’s kidding whom here? Snow is a hand and mouth puppet. He’s supposed to deliver the answers for the Bush regime, but often he doesn’t know or avoids or bs’s his way through the entrapment questions (they both know, by the way, that they’re trying to entrap Snow) and that’s what it’s about. To expect any factual interchange here is a joke. If the press corps had any gumption whatsoever, they’d stop the game, not treat Tony nice, either walk off and leave him alone with no one to come to his news conferences, or they’d say, plain out, “Stop the bs, Tony. Give us an answer or tell us you don’t know.”
June 19th, 2007 at 1:54 amSo many of you posters are making assumptions that Snow doesn’t know what he’s talking about, that he somehow is either naive, stupid, or has his head up his ass.
Snow knows exactly what he’s doing. What he says is DESIGNED to confuse, obfuscate, and fudge the facts, so that the corporate media can studiously repeat the factually shakey statements as real fact, and do it with the stamp of authority– all of this to execute social control over framing the message.
It’s right out of elementary texts on neurolinguistic programming and indirect induction techniques. This stuff has been known in hypnosis for over thirty, and possibly for longer than sixty years. All the neocons did was apply it to politics, but with a Machiavellian bent– which is exactly what the early proponents of these techniques warned against.
The upshot is that Snow’s presentation is an expression of dishonesty for evil intent. He is deliberately deceiving to further a destructive agenda. He is as craven and immoral as any propaganda minister for any dictator.
Nothing is new here. We should not be stunned by Snow’s outlandish disdain for truthful discourse. This is Snow’s job. He’s getting paid a lot of money to perform exactly the way he’s doing. Lying and propaganda weren’t created by Snow and Rove. They’re simply good students of people like the Nazis and the Soviets.
And we should not be stunned by a complicit and collaborating media. They are simply an extension of Snow’s propaganda office.
June 19th, 2007 at 2:06 am#154 Comment by gorn by any other name — June 19, 2007 @ 12:40 am
Sadly, I’m posting this too late for it to be read…Sigh
Our job as posters is not to eliminate trolls.
I agree and I’m not trying to, although you may see it that way.
BTW, have you been over on DailyKos? The trolls there are non existant. And they are controlled by the posters. The opportunity to learn is enormous! It has happened here late at night when the trolls are sleeping under the bridge. Those were wonderful threads.
You will never, ever get enough people to ignore them to make them go away.
This is not my point or purpose. My point is awareness, as I mentioned in an earlier thread. There are simply too many posters who just don’t understand what the “troll game” is, or worse, they play it in a destructive way on purpose. There are literally dozens of examples of this on most threads. They think they are “winning” while arguing, swearing or degrading a cardboard cutout troll. The result is that no productive discussion occurs for us, and the thread is reduced (hijacked) to a schoolyard f**kfest. Which is their job!
It’s TPs responsibility.
Actually its both of our responsibilities, in my view. Our responsibility is to approach ourselves, our families, this board, and the world in an educated or knowledgable way. Collectively, we Progressives (ahem) are the hope of this great country. To simply reduce our importance to the level of schoolyard brawling is not needed in this absolutely critical time in our country’s history. We have a lot of sheeple to convince that we are not simply a bunch of loudmouth assholes who sound like “moonbats.”
I am thankful for the many thoughtful folks here, who have provded their thoughts and the great links I had not seen. It is why I am here, in spite of all the unnecessary crap.
You want to get TP to conTROLL them?
No I don’t. But it would be better if the visciousness was curtailed. Why they don’t do that seems foolish. They may be sacrificing integrity for a greater number of people. Again, I point to DailyKos, who has far greater numbers and does not have the sort of anarchy that exists here.
And as someone suggested, completely eliminating the trolls would be as bad as completely eliminating bacteria from your gut. Sounds good on paper, but the digestive process needs bacteria in order to be able to separate the nutrients from the $hit.
This is a poor analogy or justification. He is saying that “anarchy” is quite acceptable. Unless you want all the fantasy that results from battling cardboard dummys, instead of debating real people, of course. His analogy sounds good but in reality you get way too much ranting and not enough good communication. This is why the Libertarian model won’t work.) Personally, I believe it takes more courage to debate real people, than to degrade dummies while being manipulated by trolls, simply because you don’t “get it.”
So if a person revels in their freedom to rant, with TPs permission to degrade and swear, and that person has no other outlet for their angst… then this analogy does make sense. And the schoolyard brawl will continue.
June 19th, 2007 at 4:01 am#157 Comment by Eyeball Kid — June 19, 2007 @ 2:06 am
Spot on! Your opening line: “So many of you posters are making assumptions…” is exactly on target. In my post #158 above, I echo your feelings with a slightly different twist.
You should really post this tomorrow, as few people look at yesterday’s posts. Thanks for explaining the real picture so clearly and succently. I aim to save it, and with your permission may post parts of it here, when relavent.
This is the understanding that all Progressives need to have. Your post is what I was refering to above when I said:
June 19th, 2007 at 4:34 am“I am thankful for the many thoughtful folks here, who have provded their thoughts and the great links I had not seen. It is why I am here, in spite of all the unnecessary crap.”
So Tony Snow, the great spokesman for idiot child, Bush, doesn’t know whether the war in Iraq has helped stabilize the Middle East. How can the word stabilize even be used with regard to that region? When was the area ever stable. What is obvious is that our intervention in Iraq has inflamed the area beyond control and Tony Snow stands there like a zombie saying that he doesn’t know. I feel sorry for him because he has cancer but does it affect his ability to reason? Of course, I know that he must go along with whatever that dumb ass boss of his comes up with.
He is more to b