Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements.
By on Jun 20th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements.
After a recent GAO report found that federal agencies ignored 30 percent of the laws President Bush objected to in signing statements last year, lawmakers now “say they plan to dig deeper into the Bush administration’s use of bill-signing statements as ways to circumvent Congressional intent.” Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) and Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) said that “their next step would be to explore the signing statements to determine the broad extent of their impact.”
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Constitutional crisis, here we come!
June 20th, 2007 at 9:49 amShould have looked into this earlier, I don’t think a president should be allowed to ignore a law if he doesn’t like it.
June 20th, 2007 at 9:50 amAll the dems do is explore START MAKING SOMETHING HAPPEN you cowards Im tired of all of this stuff.Why did we elect you pricks?
June 20th, 2007 at 9:51 amBe careful, or Scalia will declare Bush innocent because he might say that he once saw on TV Hitler sign the law that gave him dictatorial powers, so therefore Bush is also allowed to do whatever the hell he want to do.
Arrest
June 20th, 2007 at 9:54 amTRY
HANG!
Why should any of this really surprise anyone?
This is the way that GDumbya has lived his entire life. Had a problem with a pending drug test in the TANG — skipped town and deserted. Had a problem with pending jury duty and discovery of his DUI — got Gonzo to expunge the record. Had problem with going broke drilling dry holes in Texas — got Poppy to bail him out.
The list goes on and on. This little alcoholic spoiled brat has never grown up, never been accountable for his actions and never suffered any consequences.
Like it or not, that is the sum total of our little presi-dunce. Sad. Very sad.
June 20th, 2007 at 9:55 amDon’t worry … as usual just BS talk to give the illusion that they’re actually doing something.
Nothing will happen. Nobody will be held accountable.
Conyers and Byrd can conclude that Bush broke every law imaginable and nothing will happen.
NOBODY IS EVER HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
June 20th, 2007 at 9:58 amOh please, this is such a non-starter, DOA story.
June 20th, 2007 at 9:59 amYES!!!!!! The President has the constitutional right to veto bills, but he can’t ignore or alter the law after he signs it.
Lano, you a little upset with the constitution? I’m pretty sure none of the posters here are actual members of congress so the “you pricks” comment is missplaced. Maybe it’s next to your copy of the constitution.
This could rip the cover off of this administration.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:04 amWhen the Decider and the Commander Guy is told what to do by his handlers (Darth & PudgeBoy Rove) and Gonzo says it is all “kinda” legal, he will keep doing it.
Bad behavior that is rewarded will always be repeated!
June 20th, 2007 at 10:04 amMy best guess is that Congress will bass a bill that says that bush can’t use signing statements and then when signing the bill into law Bush will attach a signing statement stating that he can!
June 20th, 2007 at 10:07 amAs if they’ll get anywhere.
NYT“>John McCain is everywhere per NYT chart.
McCain will straighten ‘em out when he’s Prez. /snark
June 20th, 2007 at 10:07 amBush: “Ooooo Ah’m a shakin’ in mah boots hahahahaha”
June 20th, 2007 at 10:10 amClinton did it too!!!
June 20th, 2007 at 10:10 amAnd yet he has, as standard practice.
Nah.
And the reason is if I ask you when the Boston Globe actually broke this story you can’t do that without Google.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:11 amYou can’t find people on the street talking about this as a topical concern for them without a time machine.
Well yeah, he did.
If you can come to terms with that you’ll be able to figure out how much of a pointless waste of time this is.
The administration has either directed agencies and officials to ignore the laws passed or he hasn’t. They either have ignored these laws or they haven’t.
Until those pre-requistites are satisfied Bush has done nothing differently than Clinton.
If they are satisfied then WTF is the point of “digging deeper” on his signing statements ?
What, some agency has been directed to break the law but instead of investigating that you’re gonna do some tests on the ink in the signing pen ?
This is a group of people declaring they are going to investigate something meaningless so that they don’t have to investigate something meaningful.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:17 amI am so sick of people saying that Clinton did it. Clinton has not been in office for what 7 years.
It is time American wokeup and took to the streets. We need to take our Country back.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:17 amWell, of course the signing statements are unconstitutional. Bush even was given that legal opinion early on. Signing statements have been used by presidents in the past only to clear up ambiguity or to indicate an administration’s interpretation. That is, a president might wish to make clear what the administration will consider to be the definition of a word that was not made clear in the law or to reveal that the administration will take a narrow approach rather than a broad one toward enforcement.
However, this is not what Bush has been doing. His signing statements have actually been underhanded vetoes. He’s contradicted laws and taken a YES means NO approach. He can’t do that. He’s the Chief Executive Officer, not the Dictator. He may think he’s The Decider, but it’s actually Congress that decides what will be law; the president’s job is to execute the laws. To do otherwise is to subvert the Will of the People. If he wished a law had been written differently, he has the right to veto it –and Congress has the power to override the veto. But Bush cannot rule by Fiat.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:19 amOf course, Bush is not really President, so everything he does is illegal.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:31 amdavid – then why the “next step” to explore?
rhetorical… damn procedures… i know, i know…
it’s very frustrating until you think that THIS congress
June 20th, 2007 at 10:34 amhas only had 5 months to undo the last 12 years
of irresponsible republicRAT do-nothingness…
…
Comment by david — June 20, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Correction: Bush can do anything he wants as the Dictator he has become. If you continue to post about what Bush can and cannot do some agents will question you about your subversive activities and hold you as a terrorist suspect! The job description has in fact changed and David you better pick a god and that god better be Bush.
Once again: The Congress and the Executive no longer represent the true will of the people. We citizens have two choices. We can accept that the USA has in fact become a Dictatorship or we can abolish the current government! The third possibility is to remain in denial over the realization that we are now subjects of a Dictator.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:39 amKilo,
Perhaps an investigation into all signings statements should be done and a Constitutional amendment offered up. I believe that ’signing statements’ are a subversion of the obvious intent of the founders that the legislature makes the law and the President executes those laws and anforces them. If the President doesn’t like something in the law, he/she can veto it. Any other action taken is, in my humble opinion, unconstitutional.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:40 amI think Crump was joking there.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:40 amClinton did some things that were wrong and bad and HIS OWN party threw him under the bus. What the Republicons don’t seem to realize is that they had better do the same immediately. Yet they continue to block the Democrats from punishing him and his traitor neocon toadies. Huge mistake.
Huge mistake.
Comment by werenotgonnatakeit — June 20, 2007 @ 10:40 am
If your intent is to create a Dictatorial government then supporting the Dictator is ++Good!! Every King has Lords but you expect the surfs to have a voice? The surfs are slaves!
June 20th, 2007 at 10:46 amserfs (spell check does not like Feudalism)
June 20th, 2007 at 10:49 amThat’s not a viable option though.
I can’t imagine that you need 2/3rds to impeach or override a veto but that you could amend the constitution with less.
Even if you could, it’s not happening while Bush is in office.
So, let’s see the same call for that when the Dems own all 3 branches. Right ?
Hello ? Echo…. echo…..
Which counts for nothing. There are actually legal blogs which explain these legal issues if you would like to find out how your opinion compares to those which do matter.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:51 amI don’t think they’re slaves – they have a choice and I think many of them go along with this crap enthusiastically. Although I don’t think many of them would be going along with it if they didn’t expect to be rewarded for it.
I DO think however that the domestic spying was done in part to enforce party discipline. Our govt is not above blackmailing people with information – just ask Martin Luther King Jr.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:51 amBTW – where are the mindless troll apologists today? Perhaps still waiting for Commandant Rove to issue his Daily Talking Points?
June 20th, 2007 at 10:52 amI bet if 216 million of us, (US population minus 28%), all put our signatures on a huge signing statement, (petition), that this administration is illegal, immoral and illogical we’d get their attention.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:53 amslightly O/T here, but. . .
okay, this morning’s court
docket search informs us that
as of june 16, 2007, that one of
the “laboring oars” at lawrence s. robbins’
law-firm (and he), were granted 24-hour-
a-day, seven-day-a-week, rights of entry
and access, in and to the e. barrett
prettyman courthouse “secure area” — where
the portions of the libby-trial-materials
that are still “classified” or “eyes only”
currently reside. . .
what this tell us is that the appellate team
is working overtime — way overtime — to get
up to speed, given that they were not part
of the original-trial-team-entourage. . .
scooter’s
June 20th, 2007 at 10:54 amfreedomincarceration count-down clock is ticking. . . ticking. . . ticking. . .
Kilo,
You’re right about lack of concern by the public. This just gets in the way of American Idol and Hell’s Kitchen. Hopefully there are enough members of congress (both rep. and dem.) that see the threat to the constitution with these signing statements.
If any candidate that can sense blood in the water on this will pounce. Then all media will be reporting this.
I hope this subject is brought up to all the candidates.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:59 amI don’t think they’re slaves – they have a choice and I think many of them go along with this crap enthusiastically. Although I don’t think many of them would be going along with it if they didn’t expect to be rewarded for it.
Comment by werenotgonnatakeit — June 20, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Group-think works best when there is a 9-11 around. Once there is a “Dictator” or even a “Puppet Dictator” everyone becomes a slave to a lesser or greater degree; this all depends on the “Dictator” though. If one day the “Dictator” decides that “torturing” captives is ++ Good no one stops him since fear of torture tightens the grip of “Group-Think!”
June 20th, 2007 at 10:59 amBS. Have you actually read them ?
They’re not about contradicting the law. They’re just about qualifying the approval of the law on the basis that they are passed with consideration that they do not infringe on the powers of the executive branch.
That has range from the most innocent comment possible all the way up to a diplomatic immunity clause for the executive.
Either way it doesn’t matter. You cannot investigate and challenge this practice and these powers.
If you want to know why that is, search for ‘Gonzales’ on this website and watch all the testimony videos.
That was a guy who didn’t have a “it’s all innocent” defense and the people questioning him are the same ones you think are capable of doing fkall in regard to this.
Was a time when debating flag burning laws were a waste of time. How do you think that compares to an unlimited-scope investigation to determine, in theory mind you, whether everyone agrees on what the Bush administration thinks the power of the executive branch is reasonable.
Why not just run nobody in the 2008 elections and save your fkn money.
You couldn’t pay someone to rig an election race with a more problem riddled opponent and you’re looking to piss it away on philosophical question and answer sessions.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:02 amyes!!! I think Congress should change the law and prohibit them…
June 20th, 2007 at 11:03 amKaty, the Next Step thing is what democracies do. It’s the Bushes of this world that simply do things by decree. Congress has to do this because America no longer has a functioning Free Press. The Next Step would involve dragging various Department heads before a committee and asking them why the President thinks NO means YES; and asking them if they followed the letter of the Law or the post script of the signing statement. And then Congress will likely push to have ALL signing statements made illegal.
I suspect Congress doesn’t want to put this to the Supreme Court. Certainly not one that made Bush president over Gore and has a justice who think Jack Bauer of 24 is a real government agent and a model for how national security should be carried out. I think you’ll find Congress knows that the USA is dangerously close to becoming a dictatorship and that it’s important to play the cards correctly to win the game.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:03 amMaybe they’re off talking about something that matters.
Maybe it doesn’t serve them to make this any less appealing than it sounds.
Either way, I’m here disagreeing with you. I’m happy to be your troll for the duration.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:07 amSo let’s have at it then chump. Chop chop.
@8
What constitution?? Bush has took most of our rights,so we elect the dems to get some kind of justice for “we the american people “and they have’nt done anything.This should make all of us a little upset.Im so tired of them investagating everything we need results now.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by david — June 20, 2007 @ 11:03 am
And with the time and expense involved the act is pointless since there are not enough votes. Bush is a Dictator. Congress is nothing but a bunch of blood sucking lawyers. So there is nothing that will be done except some shows for ++ Good social control. The majority at this stage has general strikes and then a revolt as possible recourse to tyranny!
June 20th, 2007 at 11:16 amkilo, the signing statement claim a privilege that is nonsensical. The Executive must execute the laws of the land, Bush’s signing statements pretend that Congress is cramping his style by actually spelling out those laws and that he, The Decider, should decide what is legal and illegal. And that’s absurd.
You are right that Congress can do little. The signing statements are In Your Face challenges that double dare impeachment on minor matters. They are dishonest and cowardly. Bush should either veto a bill or obey it. A signing statement is merely the way of the weasel. Read the fine print. If we took each signing statement to be a cowardly, underhanded veto, Bush would go down in history as the president to veto the most legislation. Instead, he has a shocking record of only 2 vetos –perhaps a third by the end of this week.
In the end, these signing statement matter. If the People cannot trust the president to enforce the laws as written, then anything becomes permissible. All is anarchy. And the biggest liar wins.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:16 amUnless they impeach, this is just window dressing to pretend we have a Constitution and Congress is doing something besides whoring for campaign money.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:19 amComment by david — June 20, 2007 @ 11:16 am
Now you are rationalizing. How do any of us know what Bush is thinking or what his actual “plan” is? The only point of view we have is that the Congress and the President no longer respect the Majority of the citizens. Congress will not fire the Dictator so that responsibility now rests on our shoulders!
June 20th, 2007 at 11:21 amMaybe they’re off talking about something that matters.
Maybe it doesn’t serve them to make this any less appealing than it sounds.
Either way, I’m here disagreeing with you. I’m happy to be your troll for the duration.
So let’s have at it then chump. Chop chop.
Are YOU KIDDING? You ARE a troll…
Anyway, then:
WHY did Bush and Cheney REFUSE to TESTIFY to the 9/11 Commission UNDER OATH???
In other words, SWEAR TO GOD to TELL THE TRUTH to the Commission and the AMERICAN PUBLIC about their involvement with 9/11, the Bin Ladens, and the Saudi TERRORIST FINANCIERS.
I KNOW why: They are TRAITOR coxucker PUNKS who need to be TRIED, convicted, and EXECUTED.
By soldiers WOUNDED for life for the LIES of TRAITORS Bush and Cheney.
Come on, azzhole-licker of these COXUCKER punk TRAITORS to the USA!!
BRING IT ON!! Chop chop Nazi azzhole-licker!
June 20th, 2007 at 11:25 amKilo,
If the President willfully ignoring the law and Deciding that he doesn’t have to enforce the laws the People’s Elected Representatives created doesn’t matter, I’d sure love to hear what supposedly does in your mind.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:26 amkilo underestimates the politcal creature. This won’t die out and it does matter.
Kilo, if you do have access to the signing statements please provide the link. I’d love to look at them.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:35 amComment by werenotgonnatakeit — June 20, 2007 @ 11:26 am
Both Congress and the President have become “unresponsive†to the “will of the people†and as a result the responsibility of abolishing this government now falls squarely on the citizens shoulders. If Congress will not fire this president than both the entire congress and the President must be fired by the actual people of the land. I would imagine there are Supreme Court Judges that need to go as well.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:39 amSigning statements exist to protect the constitutional authority of the executive branch, only when legislation or court order would directly interfere with that authority in a manner not consistent with the constitution.
The grounds for impeachment are bribery, treason, and high crimes or misdemeanors. More succinctly put: An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history.
Time for Pelosi to politely announce that impeachment, as an option for restoring public trust, is back on the table.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:49 amNotice this subject is largely void of the digibitching trolls. Maybe Kilo instructed them to stay away from this topic so as not to draw attention to a real issue.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:50 amTime for Pelosi to politely announce that impeachment, as an option for restoring public trust, is back on the table.
Comment by DM — June 20, 2007 @ 11:49 am
It is well past that point DM and we will shoulder that responsibility as citizens or we will remain as slaves.
June 20th, 2007 at 11:59 amKilo is presently on yesterday’s “newt gingrich” thread yelling about 9/11 conspiracy theorists.
However, they NEVER answered my post above: WHY Bush and Cheney REFUSED to testify UNDER OATH before the 9/11 commish.
I ALSO posted it there.
Funny how Nazi azzhole-licking supporters of MURDEROUS WAR CRIMINAL Bush call OTHERS “conspiracy therorists”…
June 20th, 2007 at 12:01 pmConstitutional crisis, here we come!
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
I’d say we’ve been in a constitutional crisis for at least 3 or 4 yrs now.
June 20th, 2007 at 12:03 pmSo let’s have at it then chump. Chop chop.
Comment by Kilo
Can’t we deport this moron back to Albania?
June 20th, 2007 at 12:04 pmAnd again…
We are waiting on a “Rube Goldberg Solution” from a Congress and President that are not listening like many of the posters here!
June 20th, 2007 at 12:05 pmWhich counts for nothing. There are actually legal blogs which explain these legal issues if you would like to find out how your opinion compares to those which do matter.
Comment by Kilo — June 20, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Why don’t you direct him to some of those blogs?
June 20th, 2007 at 12:13 pm#44 freedomrings -
I used to not be in favor of a third party process in this country, but after witnessing the lack of gonads on the part of the Dem leadership and the sheep-like approach the Repugs are taking to BushCo, it is now time to truly consider it.
When people like Ron Paul, Gravel and now Bloomberg are making more sense than anyone else, we have reached the tipping point.
June 20th, 2007 at 12:17 pmho-hum—another investigation by Rep. “Impeachment is off the table” Conyers.
Trolls show up and defend signing statements, totally ignorant of the Constitution and Constitutional Law, totally supportive of a dictatorship, under the guise of a Unitary Executive.
What the hell, if the President doesn’t want to enforce a law, he doesn’t have to. He can literally do whatever he wants. And as long as IMPEACHMENT is off the table, he can get away with it. Here’s a partial list of what a President can do without being held accountable:
June 20th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
I used to not be in favor of a third party process in this country, but after witnessing the lack of gonads on the part of the Dem leadership and the sheep-like approach the Repugs are taking to BushCo, it is now time to truly consider it.
When people like Ron Paul, Gravel and now Bloomberg are making more sense than anyone else, we have reached the tipping point.
Comment by upside00 — June 20, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
Upside00,
June 20th, 2007 at 12:57 pm“We are the process†and the government is “for the people.†If it was your car screwing up you would stop and fix it. We have reduced ourselves to being all talk and no date for the first “General Strike†of our time. We have to prepare for the probability that our opposition to tyranny will be considered as terrorism. If the Dictator has a hormone imbalance from male menopause that could be enough for thousands of us to be killed!
Anything can happen to us now but only we can change the direction of this. Living in fear is a stressful waste of time. It doesn’t matter what the reasons are as to why congress is not effective but what matters is that we realize that “Congress is ineffective†and like the Dictator must be removed. Let’s face reality here and realize that it is now our responsibility!
There are actually legal blogs which explain these legal issues if you would like to find out how your opinion compares to those which do matter.
Comment by Kilo — June 20, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Care to include some links. As a Lawyer, I am curious as to which legal authorities you cite.
However, Justice Scalia’s comments recently are, shall we say, interesting. He has apparently told the world the the United States of America will not convict a government agent accused of torture.
As one who has studied International Law and International Human Rights, I can assure you that his statements, from an international perspective, are cause for alarm. Here you have a Justice on the Highest Court of the most powerful country in the world apparently condoning torture. And torture has risen to a jus cogens of international law. That means if the United States Government refuses to prosecute someone accused of torture, or conducts a sham prosecution, the International Community can exert jurisdiction.
June 20th, 2007 at 12:59 pmAnd if that impact clearly shows that he has constantly violated his oath of office, would that be a high crime, or a misdemeanor?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:04 pmwe have reached the tipping point.
Comment by upside00
NOT ENUF TO IMPEACH ?Oh after years of such a criminal administration the democrats are a shue in for the next election,RIGHT ?
Like good cop, bad cop !
If the democrats don’t do something serious, NOW, they will face a long overdue challenge to the 2 party system in the next election cycle !To hell with your campaigning and stump speeches ,actions speak louder than words !Show us your commitment to REAL democracy and EARN our approval through unambiguous acts of courage in the face of a blatant attempt at subverting our democracy and constitution by fascists with the blood of most of a million souls already on their hands !
June 20th, 2007 at 1:07 pmComment by Briseadh na Faire — June 20, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
So, am I correct to believe that you agree that our Government is no longer responsive to the Will of the People? If you agree with that then do you agree that the responsibility to govern falls on the people who no longer have the protection of a Constitutional government?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:07 pm# 57
June 20th, 2007 at 1:08 pma parking ticket
…..then this state of affairs would appear to be uneffected by whether or not he writes “OMg btw I ams teh preznit” on said laws as signing statements when he signs them in to law.
How this is too complicated for you I have no idea.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:13 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Amen to that brother! We need to establish dates and times at this point for general strikes to get the ball rolling. The time of circular discussion is at an end. It is easy to see that tyranny is gaining more and more power so why accept that all we can do is endlessly talk about it. We must throw down the gauntlet or we are lost!
June 20th, 2007 at 1:16 pmYou’re a lawyer now ? I thought you weren’t going to be taking the bar exam until after you’d finished studying Conspiracy Theory Vs Reality.
How time flies while you’re massive hypocrite.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:17 pmStill don’t see any links to those “facty” sites kilo writes about. But there’s always enough time to insult.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHow time flies while you’re massive hypocrite.
And how time flies when YOU are a Nazi azzhole-licker of TRAITOR Bush
June 20th, 2007 at 1:21 pmThe answer is 14.
14 months ago was when this was news.
Like I said, 14 months ago was when people had links.
I do recall though that the is a common phrase that can be searched which will pull up just those bills with signing statements attached. My guess would be that such statements have to be prefaced in such a way.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:24 pm# 59
June 20th, 2007 at 1:24 pmNo government has ever been truly responsive to the will of the people but freedom marches on !We ,PROGRESS ,and while the assaults on our sleeping democracy have been real , so is the fact that this may be the best chance in a generation , to establish a greater ,free er, society !
The 2 party system may have just abolished itself through a combination of criminality and complicity ,WAKE UP DEMOCRATS ,neo conservativism is this years NAZIISM , and I have the bodies and torture chambers to prove it !
http://lists1.cac.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0601B&L=GOVDOC-L&P=R2553&I=-3&X=6CFCD24917071A3171&Y=
June 20th, 2007 at 1:26 pmWhy don’t we all ring in on July 4th till Sunday the 9th and let that be our strike in the face of Tyranny?? What do you all think? Could we generate commitment?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:26 pmHey look at you not being able to wait a whole 3 minutes more.
And even when you knew there was a bona fide lawyer here no less, I’m still the only option to find you a link because google is still inaccessible to everyone at TP for some reason.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:30 pmAN AMERICAN CAN BE HELD WITHOUT BASIC RIGHTS AND TRIED ON SECRET EVIDENCE BEFORE A SPECIAL COURT .
June 20th, 2007 at 1:31 pmhello ?
THE UNITED STATES TORTURES PEOPLE IT KIDNAPS ABROAD IN SECRET PRISONS .
June 20th, 2007 at 1:33 pmwhat ?
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
The concept is this brother. The majority of Americans at this point want the President to get the hook. That is not going to happen for various reasons by the list of excuses presented to us. Those that should represent us have becomes minions of the Dictator and the only progress they all have in mind is to protect their Plutocracy!
June 20th, 2007 at 1:33 pm3/4 OF A MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY A GROUP OF OIL EXECUTIVES WHO STATED PRE 911 THAT THE US MUST INVADE THE MIDDLE EAST TO ESTABLISH GLOBAL HEGEMONY AND NOT ONE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR OR REPRESENTATIVE HAS CALLED IT TREASON !
June 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pmDo you remember the Weimar republic ?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:38 pmWhy don’t we all ring in on July 4th till Sunday the 9th and let that be our strike in the face of Tyranny?? What do you all think? Could we generate commitment?
Comment by freedomrings — June 20, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
My fellow citizens are a little bit of a lazy self indulged lot so I think your time window is way to long to expect success. However, I like the idea and see the potential.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:39 pmDo you know what Germany looked like after the second world war ?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:39 pmWhat are former Nuremberg prosecutors saying about our leader ?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:40 pmkilo, thanks for the one link to a Penn State blog from 2006. Did the google search but didn’t think I had to inform you of that. The qty. and scope of the signing statements from this president does warrant scrutiny and any defender of the constitution should welcome it. Last count I heard was over 750 signing statements. Many are mundane, but others aren’t.
You want to blindly accept whatever Bush does, fine with me. I’m going to question it.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pmDoes the US have the right to systematically topple democratically elected governments or to invade other sovereign nations inorder to control the worlds oil resources as stated pre 911 by neo conservatives now running our foreign policies ?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pmIsn’t that a serious and transparent WAR CRIME ?
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
The lion share of the politicians that you are talking about are “Blood Sucking Lawyers” who have only the goal of preserving their Plutocratic government in mind. The currency used is the US DOLLAR in all OPEC oil sales. The invasion of IRAQ is to publicly beat IRAQ for attempting to trade in EUROs. The other OPEC nations are expected to keep in line and hold to the US Dollar.
June 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pmTHE EXECUTIVE IGNORES 1/3 OF THE FEDERAL LAWS PASSED BY CONGRESS !
June 20th, 2007 at 1:47 pmHowever, I like the idea and see the potential.
Comment by dbadass — June 20, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Well if you are feeling patriotic today in the true meaning of the word then how can we get a few million people to take part in a general strike that would last for several days?
June 20th, 2007 at 1:49 pmTHE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN SPY AND COLLECT RECORDS ON CITIZENS WITHOUT JUDICIAL OVERSIGHT AND IN SECRET !
June 20th, 2007 at 1:56 pm1/3 OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB !
June 20th, 2007 at 1:57 pmA self imposed martial law of sorts where everyone stays home for a few days and all non-essential business is halted. We choose a spokesperson to list our grievances and then see what happens. I would not settle for less than an immediate impeachment and immediate repeal of all of the 9-11 laws especially the Patriot Acts. Beyond that I can think of no other non-violent methods that are as direct as a “general strikeâ€.
June 20th, 2007 at 2:00 pmFREEDOM RINGS non violent non co operation on a mass scale would close the door on the sorry mess we find ourselves in today ,and establish THE PEOPLE as the deciders for the republic.
June 20th, 2007 at 2:17 pmCrucifying neo conservativism will do more to protect our nation from future tyrannies than a 1000 foreign wars ever will !
LAST CHANCE DEMOCRATS ,YOUR COMPLACENCY MAY WELL BE BOTH YOUR AND OUR NATIONS UNDOING .
tHE TIME FOR POLITICAL CALCULATIONS IS AT AN END , IT MERELY REVEALS THE FLAWS IN THE 2 PARTY SYSTEM , ACT NOW AND REMAIN VIABLE , DON’T ACT AND WE THE PEOPLE WILL LEAVE YOU AND THE CORPORATIONS WHICH OWN YOUR VOTES BEHIND !
Well if you are feeling patriotic today in the true meaning of the word then how can we get a few million people to take part in a general strike that would last for several days?
Comment by freedomrings — June 20, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Not sure. But a passive legal sign of the will of the masses is in order. At the risk of the attacks of the testosterone fueled King of the Hillers around here, my first thought is back to bell ringing. I know the many houses of worship in my town would consider it. I think a nationwide sign of unrest is best prior to any escalation. Your posts indicate a high level of intelligence and conviction. I think you should indeed work toward the goal of clearly articulating where the people are at in a legal way that can not be ignored.
June 20th, 2007 at 2:18 pmFREEDOM RINGS non violent non co operation on a mass scale would close the door on the sorry mess we find ourselves in today ,and establish THE PEOPLE as the deciders for the republic.
Crucifying neo conservativism will do more to protect our nation from future tyrannies than a 1000 foreign wars ever will !
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
Marches and protests are great things but create opportunities for violence by the police and government. It is too soon for a full out revolt or civil war. I propose a week long general strike that causes everything to grind to a halt. We do no business, frequent no stores, have no workers in our homes, lobby those that are not striking to go home and join the strike, keep off the streets, cook food at home and anything else you can think up to send out that message that we are through living in “Crazy Land!”
At some point a delegation of us will let the Dictator and Congress know our grievances and explain what is acceptable to resolve the strike. I doubt they will simply pack up and get out of DC but at least that is a start. If they will not address our grievances then we are at an end on peaceful options.
June 20th, 2007 at 2:37 pmComment by dbadass — June 20, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
I happen to be one regular guy who has reached you. I happen to know that the only way to accomplish anything is to do something. I agree that places of worship, gathering points and the like will be great ways to rally the citizens. I also happen to know that if we got TP to start an Action speaks louder than words section we could rapidly reach millions. Those millions can all reach a few people and that is the sort of critical mass we need to do something about OUR COUNTRY.
I guess July4th is too quick but a lot can happen in a few weeks thanks to rapid mass communication of the inter web!
June 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pmThe American Bar Association called signing statements a serious threat to our constitutional form of government years ago , and this IS the iceberg folks not the tip of it !
June 20th, 2007 at 2:59 pmThe presidency now operates OUTSIDE the laws of our country LEGALLY , like an emperor in imperial Rome with a relationship to the peoples senate similar to the one Brutas,unsuccessfully took a knife to !
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Well will you offer to support a general strike and help those of us interested to attain the critical mass needed to make such a strike effective?
June 20th, 2007 at 3:06 pmJefferson
June 20th, 2007 at 3:11 pm, said the constitution was written so that the people would not need to overthrow a tyranny by force but though the rule of law redress grievances ! He also felt that the final responsibility for the march toward freedom lie in the hands of an armed populace that WOULD overthrow a tyrant , if necessary ,by force of arms,as he and his contemporaries had!
Is this a trick question ? I at my most powerfulwhen I’m just hanging out on my couch !
June 20th, 2007 at 3:17 pmThe Tao abides in non actuion , when nothing is done nothing is left undone ! Tao te ching
Maybe we should make mondays part of the week end ?
June 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
So is that a yes or no?
June 20th, 2007 at 3:18 pmInnocent as a dove and wise as a serpent .
June 20th, 2007 at 3:29 pmI propose we love with all our might , even if that means spending a long weekend on the couch ! Upaya , the bodhisattva’s expedient means ,for the sake of all beings !
OM AH HUM VAJRA GURU PADME SIDDHI HUM
Any excuse not to work is a good one ………unless there’s passion in it .
June 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
OK let’s keep it at a no in that case to accommodate your Tao or whatever.
June 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pmTHEN ITS PLAY
June 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pmsure brother a non violent nationwide stay at home wake upmcall to the powerful ,where do I sign .
June 20th, 2007 at 3:32 pmSounds more effective than another letter to my congressman !
June 20th, 2007 at 3:34 pmI’m interested .But are you speaking as a voice from the wilderness or do you have any influence beyond your rogue stature ?Are the people at TP willing to lend their voices or the other most popular blog sites ? Can we hope for a voice from any presidential contenders ,of support for our long week end !
June 20th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI love July fourth week end It puts an aura of patriotism on the action ,and I agree that with enough help from the blogosphere we stand some REAL chance of rallying people .
Will TP make this event part of it’s mission and throw it’s weight behind our efforts ?
I invite a response from our hosts at Think Progress ! Will you lend support through your organization for a nationwide patriots day off !
June 20th, 2007 at 3:48 pmHow about a honest response !
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
At the moment there is only the idea that I placed in this thread as far as I know. To make it doable there would need to be criticality. Since it seems like you are the only one and you have a Tao thing it looks like something that should be simple is going to be overly complex and full of issues. You would think that getting involvement in something like this would be easy?
This is easier and less dangerous than marches, rallies and protests since all you have to do is stay home and convince others to stay home and while you are home don’t do ANY business! I thought July 4th would be great but I suppose too soon and since it is only the 2 of us odds are that that lacks the criticality needed?
June 20th, 2007 at 3:56 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
I will message TP once I get back to my computer and ask for some support!
June 20th, 2007 at 3:58 pmMan your window of opportunity is a bit cramped and at least as of a moment ago I was to spend most of the next 2 weeks on a buisness trip in california .
June 20th, 2007 at 4:02 pmI’m all behind putting more direct pressure on our elected (
9 ? ) officials in Washington ! But to do what you propose in 2 weeks would take a concerted effort from the Blog sites themselves as well as EVERY progressive organization with in the next few hours .
It’s about damn time.
June 20th, 2007 at 4:10 pmI am leaving VERY early tommorrow morning for about ten days , what would you like me to do ?
June 20th, 2007 at 4:12 pmHave TP or the Huff post contact me , without the help of major internet stes ,as well as people like wesley clark , Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucinich or perhaps John Edwards ,the hope for success in the next 2 weeks is VERY unlikely.
A 2 week campaign on the other hand is almost stealthy and God knows public sentiment is on the verge of OUTRAGE !
June 20th, 2007 at 4:14 pmMan your window of opportunity is a bit cramped and at least as of a moment ago I was to spend most of the next 2 weeks on a buisness trip in california .
I’m all behind putting more direct pressure on our elected (
9 ? ) officials in Washington ! But to do what you propose in 2 weeks would take a concerted effort from the Blog sites themselves as well as EVERY progressive organization with in the next few hours .
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:02 pm
Provided criticality could be addressed doing it later is fine as long as we work to that goal. I happen to know that something like “dropping out” might be the greatest weapon ever against tyranny. In theory we could change the world over night. No activity, no arrests, no transactions, no business, no injuries, no surveillance blimps. We just need a few million adults to get a few million more adults to do nothing! I live close enough to DC and would be willing to go there as part of a delegation!
June 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pmWho will sign on ….. can we see a show of hands ?
June 20th, 2007 at 4:15 pmA 2 week campaign on the other hand is almost stealthy and God knows public sentiment is on the verge of OUTRAGE !
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
We are looking for a General Strike here. No marches or protests at least not yet. We don’t want any violence or anything that could be considered as violence. We simply need to convince several people we know to do the same thing. Protesters would need to take time off of work and have travel expenses. If this went well the streets would look like ghost towns along with stores, gas stations, movies and even local firework displays.
The message would be silent but defening!
June 20th, 2007 at 4:23 pm111
June 20th, 2007 at 4:30 pmwe do see eye to eye .
Never cease to be autonomous ,the answer to our predicament on all levels is the hope of the evolution of a new man ,the spiritual man or woman, whose autonomy Is love in action based on self knowledge not second hand political or religious dogma ,and is both political and spiritual in nature.
The most radical act is taking control of ones own life and spirit .The status qou only survives through our tacit approval .
BAAAAAAH BAAAAAH
So let’s get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I’m with freedomrings on this. What say ye?
June 20th, 2007 at 4:42 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
OK freeman but for the moment it looks like only a few of us would be interested so if we want to make a go of this then we will have to write to all of the sites and get some action going.
I guess the week of the 4th is too soon but then again if the correct combination of sites could be reached millions could at least know in less than a day and we have 14 days.
Just so you all know it is my feeling that we citizens are ready to conduct a mass general strike and not conduct business and stay home for a period of time on a given day or days. It will be a non violent non confrontational strike. If it worked we could change everything RAPIDLY.
June 20th, 2007 at 4:47 pmrings true to me !
June 20th, 2007 at 4:54 pmStill don’t see any links to those “facty†sites kilo writes about. But there’s always enough time to insult.
Comment by hellinabucket — June 20, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Hey look at you not being able to wait a whole 3 minutes more.
And even when you knew there was a bona fide lawyer here no less, I’m still the only option to find you a link because google is still inaccessible to everyone at TP for some reason.
Comment by Kilo — June 20, 2007 @ 1:30pm
and that’s the last heard from that one about that…
would’ve been as easy to list the actual links that BnF asked for,
at 12:59 BTW, and normally bookmarked by most, than the very
lame excuse given… the request was made to see “which legal authorities you [kilo] cite.”…
it’s the google!
June 20th, 2007 at 4:57 pm.
So let’s get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I’m with freedomrings on this. What say ye?
Comment by dbadass — June 20, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
When I get home in a few hours I hope we can get something going. I have faith (I’m not sure in what but I have some faith) that a few people can do wonderful things. I think this idea is so silly that it has a chance.
So many people post about how Americans are useless and lazy. OK great then let that be our central weapon. The Apathetic American as a weapon against Plutocratic government. A study of mind over matter: I don’t mind since they don’t matter!
June 20th, 2007 at 5:00 pmCan I still go on my business trip in the morning ? Our clients are expecting us and my wife will be real sore because when you’re self employed you don’t stand your clients up , it effects future sales and is generally very unprofessional .
June 20th, 2007 at 5:19 pmCan I have a small reprieve ?
Be back in a week and a half ?
…. dissenting generally ,but with out connection to the internet ,in the summer landscape ?
At times the cynic in me just begs to come out. While I really believe in the philosophy of: ITMFA (Thanks whoever coined the phrase–love it), my cynical side is wondering if maybe this isn’t some sort of plan.
Think about it. The Dems hint at corruption and W’s extra-constitutuinality (a word? if not then give me credit), debate same, get GOPers to rally to W’s defense. Continue doing this until…. Look it’s June 2007, can you imagine if in early 2008 (election year) they hit him full force and all the GOPers are suddenly backed into a corner from which they can’t extricate themselves…..
I don’t know if it’s wishful thinking or if just plain cynical, you decide.
JFM,USAF,RET
June 20th, 2007 at 5:29 pmAnother interesting note. Do you realize it was W’s GOP led congress that makes up the bulk of the laws to which he applied signing statements? Rater odd and/or ironic I would say.
JFM,USAF,RET
June 20th, 2007 at 5:37 pmComment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:19 pm I like that you are most powerful from your couch! Yea sure you can do what you want freeman. July4th is overly optimistic but then I’m not the boss of anything. I will do what I can and any help will be a great help!
June 20th, 2007 at 5:41 pmWhen the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear .
June 20th, 2007 at 5:56 pmLao Tzu
Venus Astarte
June 20th, 2007 at 6:06 pmWhen the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear .
Lao Tzu
Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
That reminds me of what Custer said at The Battle of the Little Big Horn,,,
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ugggg
June 20th, 2007 at 6:07 pmNo no it was uhhhhgggggg ,
June 20th, 2007 at 6:33 pmhe was trying to communicate with the indian
I wrote the TP staff and I hope that they will assist in the idea. I will compose a more well thought out message that could be copied and pasted into all of the other blogs and news sites that any of you know about. It should be for any weekday starting on July 9th 2007. Depending on TP’s take of the idea we might arrive at a common date and time sooner or later? Feel free to give input and improvements to the idea or just let us know if you think the idea is stupid!
June 20th, 2007 at 8:22 pmI always had a feeling those “signing statments” were going to get him in trouble.
Don’t scoff at this one people. Pay close attention to it.
This one might have teeth.
June 20th, 2007 at 10:55 pmThe US Constitution state:
Within section 7 which is titled “Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto” states:
Within section 8 which is titled “Powers of Congress” states:
June 21st, 2007 at 2:11 amThe constitution makes it very clear that laws are made by the legislative branch and not by the executive branch. Therefore, anything that the executive adds/subtracts/modifies can not be legal or included in the law. The only way that a law can be changed via the executive branch is to send it back to congress with the objections to be considered and the veto turned over or to maybe work on an alternate for the bill. The would leave all the “Executive signing statements” to have no effect on (or changing) the law as passed by congress and signed into law by the president.
I sent this message to TP yesterday but so far there is no reply…
Hello TP,
Today a thread titled “Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements†was posted. Several of us started a discussion based around the idea that the general public may possess the key to ending what appears to be a growing tyranny in the nation. Many agree that our congress has been rendered ineffective along with the President.
Around the nation and even around the world many are disgusted by our government’s inability to be responsive to our will. Many of us despise living in perpetual fear and constant inaction. There are those that believe that blogs and news sites are a blessing and a curse as well. Each day we read and comment and many never rise to the call for liberty. I fear that so many of us have grown attached to the complacency of constantly dancing in the shadows of the facts that we cease to create positive news.
Several of us would like to have the opportunity to attempt to change the course of events with your blessings and help. I want to appeal to you and state that an idea has come to mind that may just be the best one for this moment in time. I want to say that there are few here and around the nation content to wait for an election that may never come.
I would like a thread or a section of the blog in order to explore holding National General Strikes. Protesting is great when ideas like martial law are only applied to Communist nations. I would call for a self imposed period of time off. No business, no travel, no transactions, no sales tax, no gas stations no spending money. With TP’s base and the base of other blogs and web sites we may be able to achieve some criticality and call for that change so that the government may fear the people again.
Blogs, readers, posters and the rest of the web can deliver information rapidly around the world. Soon those that are willing can spread more information to others to get them aboard too. If enough people create enough criticality and draw attention to the idea it could make it to mainstream TV news. Our goal would be to “Do Nothing†and “Hang Out for Freedom.â€
If I were in a delegation to meet with government officials I would let them know that “Impeachment Is On The Table†and “Ending The War Is On The Table†and “Repealing Tyrannical Laws Like The Patriot Act Is On The Table†General strikes secure our safety, save energy, reduce arrests and prevent the use of martial law powers. Should several strikes be needed then additional protests could be added and timed with large marches.
I’m hoping that you will be willing to at least try this for the greater good and the survival of the entire planet. Please let me know if you are willing to help or not and I promise that this idea can work if enough of us come aboard. I would hope that we could work together and stop this nightmare that has been playing since 9-11.
Thank You,
June 21st, 2007 at 11:24 amfreedomrings