Comments on: Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:59:53 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3872919 freedomrings Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:24:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3872919 I sent this message to TP yesterday but so far there is no reply... <em>Hello TP, Today a thread titled “Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements” was posted. Several of us started a discussion based around the idea that the general public may possess the key to ending what appears to be a growing tyranny in the nation. Many agree that our congress has been rendered ineffective along with the President. Around the nation and even around the world many are disgusted by our government’s inability to be responsive to our will. Many of us despise living in perpetual fear and constant inaction. There are those that believe that blogs and news sites are a blessing and a curse as well. Each day we read and comment and many never rise to the call for liberty. I fear that so many of us have grown attached to the complacency of constantly dancing in the shadows of the facts that we cease to create positive news. Several of us would like to have the opportunity to attempt to change the course of events with your blessings and help. I want to appeal to you and state that an idea has come to mind that may just be the best one for this moment in time. I want to say that there are few here and around the nation content to wait for an election that may never come. I would like a thread or a section of the blog in order to explore holding National General Strikes. Protesting is great when ideas like martial law are only applied to Communist nations. I would call for a self imposed period of time off. No business, no travel, no transactions, no sales tax, no gas stations no spending money. With TP’s base and the base of other blogs and web sites we may be able to achieve some criticality and call for that change so that the government may fear the people again. Blogs, readers, posters and the rest of the web can deliver information rapidly around the world. Soon those that are willing can spread more information to others to get them aboard too. If enough people create enough criticality and draw attention to the idea it could make it to mainstream TV news. Our goal would be to “Do Nothing” and “Hang Out for Freedom.” If I were in a delegation to meet with government officials I would let them know that “Impeachment Is On The Table” and “Ending The War Is On The Table” and “Repealing Tyrannical Laws Like The Patriot Act Is On The Table” General strikes secure our safety, save energy, reduce arrests and prevent the use of martial law powers. Should several strikes be needed then additional protests could be added and timed with large marches. I’m hoping that you will be willing to at least try this for the greater good and the survival of the entire planet. Please let me know if you are willing to help or not and I promise that this idea can work if enough of us come aboard. I would hope that we could work together and stop this nightmare that has been playing since 9-11. Thank You, freedomrings</em> I sent this message to TP yesterday but so far there is no reply…

Hello TP,
Today a thread titled “Congress to investigate Bush’s signing statements” was posted. Several of us started a discussion based around the idea that the general public may possess the key to ending what appears to be a growing tyranny in the nation. Many agree that our congress has been rendered ineffective along with the President.

Around the nation and even around the world many are disgusted by our government’s inability to be responsive to our will. Many of us despise living in perpetual fear and constant inaction. There are those that believe that blogs and news sites are a blessing and a curse as well. Each day we read and comment and many never rise to the call for liberty. I fear that so many of us have grown attached to the complacency of constantly dancing in the shadows of the facts that we cease to create positive news.

Several of us would like to have the opportunity to attempt to change the course of events with your blessings and help. I want to appeal to you and state that an idea has come to mind that may just be the best one for this moment in time. I want to say that there are few here and around the nation content to wait for an election that may never come.

I would like a thread or a section of the blog in order to explore holding National General Strikes. Protesting is great when ideas like martial law are only applied to Communist nations. I would call for a self imposed period of time off. No business, no travel, no transactions, no sales tax, no gas stations no spending money. With TP’s base and the base of other blogs and web sites we may be able to achieve some criticality and call for that change so that the government may fear the people again.

Blogs, readers, posters and the rest of the web can deliver information rapidly around the world. Soon those that are willing can spread more information to others to get them aboard too. If enough people create enough criticality and draw attention to the idea it could make it to mainstream TV news. Our goal would be to “Do Nothing” and “Hang Out for Freedom.”

If I were in a delegation to meet with government officials I would let them know that “Impeachment Is On The Table” and “Ending The War Is On The Table” and “Repealing Tyrannical Laws Like The Patriot Act Is On The Table” General strikes secure our safety, save energy, reduce arrests and prevent the use of martial law powers. Should several strikes be needed then additional protests could be added and timed with large marches.

I’m hoping that you will be willing to at least try this for the greater good and the survival of the entire planet. Please let me know if you are willing to help or not and I promise that this idea can work if enough of us come aboard. I would hope that we could work together and stop this nightmare that has been playing since 9-11.

Thank You,
freedomrings

]]> By: George Bush http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3871940 George Bush Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:11:57 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3871940 The US Constitution state: Within section 7 which is titled "Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto" states: <blockquote> Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law. </blockquote> Within section 8 which is titled "Powers of Congress" states: <blockquote> To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. </blockquote> <strong> The constitution makes it very clear that laws are made by the legislative branch and not by the executive branch. Therefore, anything that the executive adds/subtracts/modifies can not be legal or included in the law. The only way that a law can be changed via the executive branch is to send it back to congress with the objections to be considered and the veto turned over or to maybe work on an alternate for the bill. The would leave all the "Executive signing statements" to have no effect on (or changing) the law as passed by congress and signed into law by the president. </strong> The US Constitution state:
Within section 7 which is titled “Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto” states:

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Within section 8 which is titled “Powers of Congress” states:

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


The constitution makes it very clear that laws are made by the legislative branch and not by the executive branch. Therefore, anything that the executive adds/subtracts/modifies can not be legal or included in the law. The only way that a law can be changed via the executive branch is to send it back to congress with the objections to be considered and the veto turned over or to maybe work on an alternate for the bill. The would leave all the “Executive signing statements” to have no effect on (or changing) the law as passed by congress and signed into law by the president.

]]> By: BARTLEBEE http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3871089 BARTLEBEE Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:55:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3871089 I always had a feeling those "signing statments" were going to get him in trouble. Don't scoff at this one people. Pay close attention to it. This one might have teeth. I always had a feeling those “signing statments” were going to get him in trouble.

Don’t scoff at this one people. Pay close attention to it.

This one might have teeth.

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870335 freedomrings Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:22:15 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870335 <strong>I wrote the TP staff and I hope that they will assist in the idea. I will compose a more well thought out message that could be copied and pasted into all of the other blogs and news sites that any of you know about. It should be for any weekday starting on July 9th 2007. Depending on TP's take of the idea we might arrive at a common date and time sooner or later? Feel free to give input and improvements to the idea or just let us know if you think the idea is stupid!</strong> I wrote the TP staff and I hope that they will assist in the idea. I will compose a more well thought out message that could be copied and pasted into all of the other blogs and news sites that any of you know about. It should be for any weekday starting on July 9th 2007. Depending on TP’s take of the idea we might arrive at a common date and time sooner or later? Feel free to give input and improvements to the idea or just let us know if you think the idea is stupid!

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870142 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:33:35 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870142 No no it was uhhhhgggggg , he was trying to communicate with the indian No no it was uhhhhgggggg ,
he was trying to communicate with the indian

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870090 freedomrings Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:07:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870090 <em>When the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear . Lao Tzu Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:56 pm</em> That reminds me of what Custer said at The Battle of the Little Big Horn,,, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ugggg When the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear .
Lao Tzu

Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:56 pm

That reminds me of what Custer said at The Battle of the Little Big Horn,,,

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ugggg

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870087 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:06:12 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870087 Venus Astarte Venus Astarte

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870066 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:56:56 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870066 When the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear . Lao Tzu When the country is confused and in chaos loyal ministers appear .
Lao Tzu

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870028 freedomrings Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:41:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870028 <em>Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:19 pm</em> I like that you are most powerful from your couch! Yea sure you can do what you want freeman. July4th is overly optimistic but then I'm not the boss of anything. I will do what I can and any help will be a great help! Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 5:19 pm I like that you are most powerful from your couch! Yea sure you can do what you want freeman. July4th is overly optimistic but then I’m not the boss of anything. I will do what I can and any help will be a great help!

]]> By: usafret http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3870014 usafret Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:37:27 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3870014 Another interesting note. Do you realize it was W's GOP led congress that makes up the bulk of the laws to which he applied signing statements? Rater odd and/or ironic I would say. JFM,USAF,RET Another interesting note. Do you realize it was W’s GOP led congress that makes up the bulk of the laws to which he applied signing statements? Rater odd and/or ironic I would say.

JFM,USAF,RET

]]> By: usafret http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869992 usafret Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:29:47 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869992 At times the cynic in me just begs to come out. While I really believe in the philosophy of: ITMFA (Thanks whoever coined the phrase--love it), my cynical side is wondering if maybe this isn't some sort of plan. Think about it. The Dems hint at corruption and W's extra-constitutuinality (a word? if not then give me credit), debate same, get GOPers to rally to W's defense. Continue doing this until.... Look it's June 2007, can you imagine if in early 2008 (election year) they hit him full force and all the GOPers are suddenly backed into a corner from which they can't extricate themselves..... I don't know if it's wishful thinking or if just plain cynical, you decide. JFM,USAF,RET At times the cynic in me just begs to come out. While I really believe in the philosophy of: ITMFA (Thanks whoever coined the phrase–love it), my cynical side is wondering if maybe this isn’t some sort of plan.

Think about it. The Dems hint at corruption and W’s extra-constitutuinality (a word? if not then give me credit), debate same, get GOPers to rally to W’s defense. Continue doing this until…. Look it’s June 2007, can you imagine if in early 2008 (election year) they hit him full force and all the GOPers are suddenly backed into a corner from which they can’t extricate themselves…..

I don’t know if it’s wishful thinking or if just plain cynical, you decide.

JFM,USAF,RET

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869971 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:19:31 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869971 Can I still go on my business trip in the morning ? Our clients are expecting us and my wife will be real sore because when you're self employed you don't stand your clients up , it effects future sales and is generally very unprofessional . Can I have a small reprieve ? Be back in a week and a half ? .... dissenting generally ,but with out connection to the internet ,in the summer landscape ? Can I still go on my business trip in the morning ? Our clients are expecting us and my wife will be real sore because when you’re self employed you don’t stand your clients up , it effects future sales and is generally very unprofessional .
Can I have a small reprieve ?
Be back in a week and a half ?
…. dissenting generally ,but with out connection to the internet ,in the summer landscape ?

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869921 freedomrings Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:00:07 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869921 <em>So let’s get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I’m with freedomrings on this. What say ye? Comment by dbadass — June 20, 2007 @ 4:42 pm</em> When I get home in a few hours I hope we can get something going. I have faith (I'm not sure in what but I have some faith) that a few people can do wonderful things. I think this idea is so silly that it has a chance. So many people post about how Americans are useless and lazy. OK great then let that be our central weapon. The Apathetic American as a weapon against Plutocratic government. A study of mind over matter: I don't mind since they don't matter! So let’s get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I’m with freedomrings on this. What say ye?

Comment by dbadass — June 20, 2007 @ 4:42 pm

When I get home in a few hours I hope we can get something going. I have faith (I’m not sure in what but I have some faith) that a few people can do wonderful things. I think this idea is so silly that it has a chance.

So many people post about how Americans are useless and lazy. OK great then let that be our central weapon. The Apathetic American as a weapon against Plutocratic government. A study of mind over matter: I don’t mind since they don’t matter!

]]> By: katy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869909 katy Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:57:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869909 <em>Still don’t see any links to those “facty” sites kilo writes about. But there’s always enough time to insult. Comment by hellinabucket — June 20, 2007 @ 1:21 pm Hey look at you not being able to wait a whole 3 minutes more. And even when you knew there was a bona fide lawyer here no less, I’m still the only option to find you a link because google is still inaccessible to everyone at TP for some reason. Comment by Kilo — June 20, 2007 @ 1:30pm</em> and that's the last heard from that one about that... would've been as easy to list the actual links that BnF asked for, at 12:59 BTW, and normally bookmarked by most, than the very lame excuse given... the request was made to see "which legal authorities you [kilo] cite."... it's the google! . Still don’t see any links to those “facty” sites kilo writes about. But there’s always enough time to insult.
Comment by hellinabucket — June 20, 2007 @ 1:21 pm

Hey look at you not being able to wait a whole 3 minutes more.
And even when you knew there was a bona fide lawyer here no less, I’m still the only option to find you a link because google is still inaccessible to everyone at TP for some reason.
Comment by Kilo — June 20, 2007 @ 1:30pm

and that’s the last heard from that one about that…
would’ve been as easy to list the actual links that BnF asked for,
at 12:59 BTW, and normally bookmarked by most, than the very
lame excuse given… the request was made to see “which legal authorities you [kilo] cite.”…

it’s the google!
.

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869903 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:54:44 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869903 rings true to me ! rings true to me !

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869884 freedomrings Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:47:53 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869884 <em>Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:30 pm</em> OK freeman but for the moment it looks like only a few of us would be interested so if we want to make a go of this then we will have to write to all of the sites and get some action going. I guess the week of the 4th is too soon but then again if the correct combination of sites could be reached millions could at least know in less than a day and we have 14 days. Just so you all know it is my feeling that we citizens are ready to conduct a mass general strike and not conduct business and stay home for a period of time on a given day or days. It will be a non violent non confrontational strike. If it worked we could change everything RAPIDLY. Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:30 pm

OK freeman but for the moment it looks like only a few of us would be interested so if we want to make a go of this then we will have to write to all of the sites and get some action going.

I guess the week of the 4th is too soon but then again if the correct combination of sites could be reached millions could at least know in less than a day and we have 14 days.

Just so you all know it is my feeling that we citizens are ready to conduct a mass general strike and not conduct business and stay home for a period of time on a given day or days. It will be a non violent non confrontational strike. If it worked we could change everything RAPIDLY.

]]> By: dbadass http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869869 dbadass Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:42:31 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869869 So let's get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I'm with freedomrings on this. What say ye? So let’s get an answer! Hey TP: If a reasonable proposal for a major action which meets reasonable expectations (legal and civic) can be agreed to will this site allow its promotion and maybe even encourage it. I’m with freedomrings on this. What say ye?

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869833 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:30:47 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869833 111 we do see eye to eye . Never cease to be autonomous ,the answer to our predicament on all levels is the hope of the evolution of a new man ,the spiritual man or woman, whose autonomy Is love in action based on self knowledge not second hand political or religious dogma ,and is both political and spiritual in nature. The most radical act is taking control of ones own life and spirit .The status qou only survives through our tacit approval . BAAAAAAH BAAAAAH 111
we do see eye to eye .
Never cease to be autonomous ,the answer to our predicament on all levels is the hope of the evolution of a new man ,the spiritual man or woman, whose autonomy Is love in action based on self knowledge not second hand political or religious dogma ,and is both political and spiritual in nature.
The most radical act is taking control of ones own life and spirit .The status qou only survives through our tacit approval .
BAAAAAAH BAAAAAH

]]> By: freedomrings http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869811 freedomrings Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:23:49 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869811 <em>A 2 week campaign on the other hand is almost stealthy and God knows public sentiment is on the verge of OUTRAGE ! Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:14 pm</em> We are looking for a General Strike here. No marches or protests at least not yet. We don’t want any violence or anything that could be considered as violence. We simply need to convince several people we know to do the same thing. Protesters would need to take time off of work and have travel expenses. If this went well the streets would look like ghost towns along with stores, gas stations, movies and even local firework displays. The message would be silent but defening! A 2 week campaign on the other hand is almost stealthy and God knows public sentiment is on the verge of OUTRAGE !

Comment by freeman — June 20, 2007 @ 4:14 pm

We are looking for a General Strike here. No marches or protests at least not yet. We don’t want any violence or anything that could be considered as violence. We simply need to convince several people we know to do the same thing. Protesters would need to take time off of work and have travel expenses. If this went well the streets would look like ghost towns along with stores, gas stations, movies and even local firework displays.

The message would be silent but defening!

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/comment-page-3/#comment-3869794 freeman Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:15:23 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/06/20/congress-to-investigate-bushs-signing-statements/#comment-3869794 Who will sign on ..... can we see a show of hands ? Who will sign on ….. can we see a show of hands ?

]]>