McNulty Was ‘Cut Out Of The Loop,’ Learned About Controversial Memo From Press
McNulty Was ‘Cut Out Of The Loop,’ Learned About Controversial Memo From Press
On March 1, 2006, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales signed “a highly confidential order” delegating extraordinary new powers to his then-chief of staff Kyle Sampson, and his then-White House liaison Monica Goodling. The memo, first revealed by Murray Waas in the National Journal, gave Sampson and Goodling power to hire and fire most non-civil-service employees at the Justice Department.
Asked about the order in his testimony before the House Judiciary Committee today, former Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty, who resigned in May, said that he only became aware of it after it was reported in the press.
“I became familiar when there was a story on the subject in the National Journal,” said McNulty. “In the past month or so.”
Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) then asked if he was “surprised” when he “first learned” that his authority to hire and fire within his own office “had been taken away” from him “and given to a couple of inexperienced political appointees.” McNulty said he was “struck” by the move.
MCNULTY: What struck me was the guidance on the control sheet, if you will, that said ‘this is to not be circulated through the office of the Deputy Attorney General.’ And I still don’t know to this day why that was the case.
JOHNSON: Were you disturbed because you were cut out of the loop, as the chairman indicated?
MCNULTY: Well, that definitely was a concern to me when I saw that. And I’ve heard Ms. Goodling’s explanation of it, I didn’t quite understand it. And I’m still not clear as to her position on that subject. What I understood it to be, it looked like it was something that wasn’t going through the Deputy’s office for recommendation to the Attorney General, as most of our documents do. I can’t say much more about it than that.
Watch it:
Despite the evidence that McNulty was purposefully “cut out of the loop,” Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has tried to throw him under the bus, claiming that McNulty had “most of the operational authority and decisions” at the Department of Justice.
Transcript:
REP. HANK JOHNSON: I’d like to ask you some questions about the March 1, 2006 Attorney General’s delegation order entitled “Delegation of certain personnel authorities to the chief of staff to the Attorney General and the White House liason of the Department of Justice.” The order delegated to Kyle Sampson and Monica Goodling the authority to “to take final action in matters pertaining to the appointment, employment, pay, separation, and general administration of” various employees, including by the way employees in the offices of the Deputy Attorney General. Are you familiar with that order?
PAUL MCNULTY: I am now, yes.
JOHNSON: And when did you first become aware of that order, sir?
MCNULTY: The best I can recall is, I became familiar when there was a story on the subject in the National Journal, I believe.
JOHNSON: What date would that have been, approximately?
MCNULTY: In the past month or so.
JOHNSON: So you were unaware of that.
MCNULTY: Well, that’s my best memory. I wasn’t…I just can’t remember any time seeing it or having some connection to it.
JOHNSON: Had you seen the order before?
MCNULTY: Before that story?
JOHNSON: Yes.
MCNULTY: Again I don’t have any recollection of that.
JOHNSON: Did you understand that Kyle Sampson and Monica Goodling ever had authority to make hiring and firing decisions in your office?
MCNULTY: Well, that’s what I’ve come to understand.
JOHNSON: And you only came to that understanding after having read that article?
MCNULTY: No, as a practical matter, I knew that with regard to how the office operated, but the order itself.
JOHNSON: But it wasn’t the way the office operated when you were first sworn in as deputy attorney general, isn’t that correct? That’s not how the office was conducted then…hiring and firing decisions out of your office. Correct?
MCNULTY: Well, it’s a difficult subject.
JOHNSON: Is that correct or is that incorrect?
MCNULTY: It’s hard for me to say yes or no to, because I have to recall just exactly what was occuring at the time.
JOHNSON: Well, let me ask you this question. Let me put it like this. When it came down to hiring your chief of staff, you did that yourself when you were first employed as deputy attorney general, correct?
MCNULTY: Not necessarily.
JOHNSON: Well there was no liason, White House Liason to the Justice Department involved in your decison to hire your chief of staff, Mr. Elston. Was it?
MCNULTY: I’m sorry to make this difficult.
JOHNSON: Is that true or is that false?
MCNULTY: I can’t say it’s true or it’s false. It doesn’t fit that way. If a person’s being hired into a poltical position, then there’s a process.
JOHNSON: Ok, well let me stop you, I don’t want to run out of time. What is your understanding of the purpose of that delegation order that you just learned about, you say about a month or so ago, in a magazine article. What was the purpose of that order?
MCNULTY: My understanding of that order is to delegate to the attorney general’s chief of staff and the white house liason the responsibility for making hiring decisions in the leadership offices at the Department.
JOHNSON: You never had an opportuntiy to understand why that order was entered?
MCNULTY: I don’t have any memory of knowing about that order being developed or being executed. It just doesn’t come to my mind.
JOHNSON: Did it suprise you back in March when you first learned about it that your authority to hire and fire within your own office had been taken away from you and given to a couple of inexperienced political appointees?
MCNULTY: What struck me was the guidance on the control sheet, if you will, that said ‘this is to not be circulated through the office of the Deputy Attorney General.’ And I still don’t know to this day why that was the case.
JOHNSON: Were you disturbed because you were cut out of the loop, as the chairman indicated?
MCNULTY: Well that definitely was a concern to me when I saw that. And I’ve heard Ms. Goodling’s explanation of it, I didn’t quite understand it. And I’m still not clear as to her position on that subject. What I understood it to be, it looked like it was something that wasn’t going through the Deputy’s office for recommendation to the Attorney General, as most of our documents do. I can’t say much more about it than that.
Sort Comments By: Top Rated | Date
46 Responses to “McNulty Was ‘Cut Out Of The Loop,’ Learned About Controversial Memo From Press”
Register
RSSLogin
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog RollAbout Think ProgressContact Us
Donate
Man….. They are just eating each other alive trying to keep this thing from being told truthfully…..
When will they learn that it is easier to tell the truth then to tell a lie??
June 21st, 2007 at 6:06 pmTotal control and as much secrecy as possible. Here is the classic example of how information given “on a need to know basis,” can be manipulated. In this administration the left hand truly doesn’t know what any other part of the body is doing!
June 21st, 2007 at 6:11 pmWow. I’d be interested to know what caused them to cut McNulty out of the loop.
June 21st, 2007 at 6:14 pmIn this administration the left hand truly doesn’t know what any other part of the body is doing!
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
I have it on good authority that the right hand is jacking off, and is wondering where the left hand is, as it usually like to get all up in there too.
June 21st, 2007 at 6:19 pmThis continues to be just one more small segment of a major confrontation over the separation of powers under our consititution. Pundits keep saying that we could be heading towards a constitiutional crisis. It is already here. The president and his mafia have continually broken specific constitutional requirements, evaded the law, ignored regulations and trashed long standing traditions of government.
The democrats must bring impeachment charges against this president. The public needs to see the full forrest as opposed to each tree in isolation. The president and vice-president have engaged in a widespread conspiracy to destroy this democracy. They are no less dangerous than any traitor assisting an enemy. Indeed, they are the enemies of our democracy and freedom. The drive of this administration and Republican party to turn this country into a one-party state and banana republic to meet the needs of a corporate and wealthy elite with the masses controlled by a government severely restricting individual freedom and building a right wing form of evangelical Christianity that literally teaches that the rich are blessed by God.
June 21st, 2007 at 6:26 pmWell put JMOHR, I agree with you 110%.
June 21st, 2007 at 6:34 pm…..I have it on good authority that the right hand is jacking off, and is wondering where the left hand is, as it usually like to get all up in there too.
Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 6:19 pm….
LMAOAW
June 21st, 2007 at 6:50 pm#5 Comment by JMOHR — June 21, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
This continues to be just one more small segment of a major confrontation over the separation of powers…
Actually, this is the extreme example of this separation of powers. When no one in your own administration knows what is going on because that is your policy…whew… And that could be why we are seeing all this weird stuff being said in front of Congressional Committees.
I do concur with your post. Well said!
June 21st, 2007 at 7:05 pm#4 Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
I have it on good authority that the right hand is jacking off, and is wondering where the left hand is, as it usually like to get all up in there too.
Yeah, you moonbats are always saying this kind of crap. Where is your proof? You got pictures or something?
June 21st, 2007 at 7:08 pmWhat’s a moonbat? Some kind of sex toy?
June 21st, 2007 at 7:18 pm“Yeah, you moonbats”
What’s the matter you retard rethug, does the truth hurt? We don’t need no stinking truth. We know what’s going on. These people are pathological liars one and all.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:19 pm#11…oops, I meant to say “we don’t need no stinking proof”.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:20 pmI’m confused, I thought Merlin was ‘poking’ (please be a woman, please be a woman) fun at me. Either she was, or you’re now poking fun at Merlin - sounds hawt.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:27 pm#10
What’s a moonbat? Some kind of sex toy?
Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Like we Progressives call them “wingnuts,” they call us “moonbats.” Has something to do with a dog howling at the moon originally. Go over to “Little Green Footballs” (a wingnut blog) and every other post uses the term of endearment for us.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:46 pm#11 Comment by Katie — June 21, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
“Yeah, you moonbatsâ€
What’s the matter you retard rethug, does the truth hurt? We don’t need no stinking truth. We know what’s going on. These people are pathological liars one and all.
Not sure if this is snark. If not, I am simply shocked, shocked I tell you, that you haven’t been reading my posts over the last few months. You should know that I am an extreme Progressive. (So sure of my reputation here was I that I left off the qualifer “snark” to warn you.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:51 pm#13 Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 7:27 pm
I’m confused, I thought Merlin was ‘poking’ (please be a woman, please be a woman) fun at me. Either she was, or you’re now poking fun at Merlin - sounds hawt.
Yes, it was snark, Namtillaku. I just ran with your fun comment and no, I wasn’t poking fun at you. Rather I was on your side, making light of the way trolls deal with our posts. They can’t see fun when it bites them in the leg. Wingnuts have no sense of humor.
Sorry to disappoint you. Not a woman! I am a man, and an old one at that. (Proudly going on 72, I might add. However my genes have me passing for 55 in the looks department. I have won a lot of cups of coffee on how old people think I am.)
Sorry if I upset you :-)
June 21st, 2007 at 8:00 pmI like ‘moonbats’. Moon is good, La Luna - I’m going backpacking to the full moon next weekend, the moon is going save my ass. Bat - again, good. Bats eat bugs, flying mammals are cool, and the make super cool heroes.
Moonbat, we need more moonbats.
June 21st, 2007 at 8:02 pmSorry if I upset you :-)
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
Not at all - seeing your affirmation of JMOHR’s post told that tale for me, but as your comments and Katie’s were irreconcilable, I had to ask.
June 21st, 2007 at 8:04 pmNamtillaku,
June 21st, 2007 at 8:04 pmI responded to your post #39 over on the Radical right thread at #46. Check it out.
I can’t see that one, only #49. Were you talking about my little ‘knuckle-dragger’ comment?
June 21st, 2007 at 8:18 pmI can’t see that one, only #49. Were you talking about my little ‘knuckle-dragger’ comment?
Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
No, not that one. I had trouble seeing it also. It was posted, then disappeared then came back. I will try here on the next post. If you don’t see it tell me. Should be up in a moment or two. (Cut and paste.)
June 21st, 2007 at 8:26 pmOk Here is the comment from the Radical Right thread.
#39 Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
I’ve figured out all our problems, but I don’t have a fix unfortunately. Right-wingers simply haven’t evolved as far as the left. They’re incapable of critical thought, and their response to everything is defensive and attacking.
Al Gore, in his new book, “The Assault on Reason†says it differently, even though the result is as you note. In chapter 1 called “the politics of fear,†he points to fear as the governing factor. (Not a new thought but the real answer, nontheless.)
People that jump on board the BushCo, right wingnut bandwagon, are scared to death, and thought is nowhere to be found. Once they sign on to the emotional fear no one is going to talk them out of it. They are operating on emotional auto-pilot. It would be like trying to pry a gun out of a rigormortised hand. And that is one reason it is of no value to argue or “discuss†anything with trolls.
To my mind, most of our problems will go away when we reach a critical mass of those who have evolved.
Yes, our evolutionary direction is leading us there. However, as the scientists are now discovering we are a long distance from that cure. The real hope we have in the present, is to promote reason and logic to prevent evil people from using fear to manipulate and control us. BushCo is the best and most apparent use these things, and of the danger we face as a country and the world.
Check out Gore’s book! It is an extraordinary view of the big picture. Extremely readable; he puts into clear perspective what is, and has been, going on and his view of why. I have not heard this kind of clarity from any presidential candidate!
June 21st, 2007 at 8:29 pmComment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Still don’t see it anywhere Merlin. Doesn’t seem like anyone is hanging out in here, maybe you can copy & paste our comments here?
June 21st, 2007 at 9:07 pmLOL, Merlin is no wingy. Please note who posted (therefore realizing it is satire) before jumping on him.
June 21st, 2007 at 9:19 pmComment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
I can’t see that one, only #49. Were you talking about my little ‘knuckle-dragger’ comment?
Also the post #49 over on the Radical Right thread is this one. It is not one from you:
Comment by elle c — June 21, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
I can’t find any other post by you after the one I answered. Nothing about knuckle-draggers.
What the devil is going on here. I did post it right here moments after my comment I would. It shows up on my screen on both threads just fine!
Still don’t see it anywhere Merlin. Doesn’t seem like anyone is hanging out in here, maybe you can copy & paste our comments here?
Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
I will post it once more momentarily.
June 21st, 2007 at 9:20 pmWeird - maybe you’re being too naughty ;)
June 21st, 2007 at 9:23 pmOk Here is the comment from the Radical Right thread. AGAIN! Note the times listed at the bottom.
#39 Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
I’ve figured out all our problems, but I don’t have a fix unfortunately. Right-wingers simply haven’t evolved as far as the left. They’re incapable of critical thought, and their response to everything is defensive and attacking.
Al Gore, in his new book, “The Assault on Reason†says it differently, even though the result is as you note. In chapter 1 called “the politics of fear,†he points to fear as the governing factor. (Not a new thought but the real answer, nontheless.)
People that jump on board the BushCo, right wingnut bandwagon, are scared to death, and thought is nowhere to be found. Once they sign on to the emotional fear no one is going to talk them out of it. They are operating on emotional auto-pilot. It would be like trying to pry a gun out of a rigormortised hand. And that is one reason it is of no value to argue or “discuss†anything with trolls.
To my mind, most of our problems will go away when we reach a critical mass of those who have evolved.
Yes, our evolutionary direction is leading us there. However, as the scientists are now discovering we are a long distance from that cure. The real hope we have in the present, is to promote reason and logic to prevent evil people from using fear to manipulate and control us. BushCo is the best and most apparent use these things, and of the danger we face as a country and the world.
Check out Gore’s book! It is an extraordinary view of the big picture. Extremely readable; he puts into clear perspective what is, and has been, going on and his view of why. I have not heard this kind of clarity from any presidential candidate!
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
June 21st, 2007 at 9:23 pmOK it is posted again. It shows on my screen fine. First attempt was labeled #22 and this post is #27. Do you see anything? Here are the time stamps:
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
June 21st, 2007 at 9:25 pmWeird - maybe you’re being too naughty ;)
Comment by Namtillaku — June 21, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Oddly, not on this post. A serious post with nothing in it that is the least bit controversial. No bad language…no, er…
Ah! I get it now! Naughty posts get to be seen! Posts about Al Gore’s new book don’t!
And my screen shows posts #27 and 28 (both mine) while the number of comments at the top of the thread shows 26 comments. Talk about a left hand-right hand confusion. So this one should be #29.
June 21st, 2007 at 9:39 pmOK #29 posted to my screen and the comments # at the top reads 27. So it “noticed” that one. This one should be #30. What are you seeing number wise?
June 21st, 2007 at 9:42 pmI hope McNulty grabs Gonzo by the throat and makes him squeal like a pig. Like any Neocon git, Gonzo wonuldn’t have to be tortured - only manhandled. Gonzo is a coward of the first order. McNulty should put both feet dead in his ass. The resulting tidal wave of exposed corruption would be sweet.
I can dream, can’t I?
June 21st, 2007 at 10:13 pmAt first I thought McNulty was a straight-shooter but I have learned to hate him. I think he is dirty as hell and is covering for the rest of the racketeers in the DOJ.
He said he told the truth; why do I not believe him?
June 21st, 2007 at 10:20 pmComment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
72!?
No frickin’ way!!
I thought you were about my age. You know — extremely young. :-D
June 21st, 2007 at 10:24 pm#33 Comment by Zooey — June 21, 2007 @ 10:24 pm
Comment by Merlin — June 21, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
72!?
No frickin’ way!!
I thought you were about my age. You know — extremely young. :-D
Well lets not push it. I won’t be 72 till August. And yes, I look 55 and my mental and emotional approach is around 30. I truly enjoy people of all ages, but especially young folks of college age. (My daughter is 44 and will be graduating from CSUN-CA State Univ of Northridge in December.) Young people have great energy, drive and an openness that is a wonderful challenge to us both. I love to pose provocative life or psychological questions to them, and watch them think. (And often teach me new answers to things I thought I already had the answer to.)
I enjoy your posts, Zooey.
BTW, I thought my Merlin name would give away my age. Guess not.
June 21st, 2007 at 10:40 pmThis Shultz routine is getting really tiresome. None of these people know a damn thing. They can’t even answer the most basic of questions without attempting to evade the question. Perhaps McNulty was left out of the loop for his own protection but there is no doubt in my mind that these people knew exactly what they were doing. Their intent is as apparent as the nose on your face.
Forgettable Windbags
June 21st, 2007 at 10:45 pmBTW, I thought my Merlin name would give away my age. Guess not.
Comment by Merlin
You’re amazing, Merlin. :)
Your daughter is younger than me (I’m 47), but you’re older than my dad. But my dad is such on old fogey! He knows everything already, of course. Oy…..
I live right in the middle of all the college students in town, and I love it. They have a great energy, and I love to see them getting on their feet and learning about life.
Congratulations to your daughter on her upcoming graduation! I’ll be graduating myself in 2011. I appreciate college so much more now than I would have at 18. I bet your daughter feels the same way.
I still can’t believe you’re 72. :-)
June 21st, 2007 at 10:55 pmAnd yes, Zoo, we are extremely young!
June 21st, 2007 at 11:20 pm72? Get out of town!
And yes, Zoo, we are extremely young!
72? Get out of town!
Comment by SKdeA
Staggeringly young….. :D
My eldest will be 25 in August — I really don’t know how that happened.
June 21st, 2007 at 11:25 pm#34 Comment by Zooey — June 21, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
Congratulations to your daughter on her upcoming graduation!
Thanks, I’ll pass it along to her.
I’ll be graduating myself in 2011. I appreciate college so much more now than I would have at 18.
Wow! Congratulations to you as well. And yes she does. Majoring in psychology aiming toward college counselling. I have excitedly watched her grow emotionally as well as academically over the last 3 years. There is no greater thrill for me than that! To see real emotional growth (and that means psychological change through battling her deamons) is astounding! There are damn few people that I see that even attempt real (psychological) change. Living with her through the ups and downs, providing emotional support, brainstorming, advice (in the form of possible scenarios to perceived problems) and simple love and just “being there” has taught me a lot. I wish your Dad could see his way clear to appreciate all you are doing in a “present” day orientation. He is missing so much by being stuck with “all the answers.”
I bet your daughter feels the same way.
She does indeed!! Keeps her young too. She is going full time and is always the oldest student in her classes.
I still can’t believe you’re 72. :-)
71, Its 71, darn it. ;-)
June 21st, 2007 at 11:35 pm71, Its 71, darn it. ;-)
Comment by Merlin
Right! No wonder I couldn’t believe it. :)
I think your daughter is very lucky to have you, Merlin. I have conquered some demons in the last year — finally, with the help of dear friends — and it certainly enabled me to move out of my work rut and into school (full time!).
I still have hope for my dad. He totally supports my having quit my last job and starting school. That amazes me to no end.
Oy, my Geology class had 350 students in it, and I was the oldest. Then one day I found out that even though he looked older than me, I was 2 years older than the professor. Heh.
You’re one hip dude, Merlin. I’m glad you come around here. :)
June 22nd, 2007 at 12:35 am#40 Comment by Zooey — June 22, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Thanks for the lovely compliments, Zooey.
Then one day I found out that even though he looked older than me, I was 2 years older than the professor. Heh.
My daughter experienced some small difficulty with this problem of them being in her age group. Being single she found a couple of professors in their 40s rather attractive. (And they are not Rethugs which is no no #1). They felt a bit uncomfortable she reported. (She is a very attractive woman.) Can get a bit sticky (no pun intended) at times.
June 22nd, 2007 at 1:14 amZooey,
If you are still here, I’m having trouble with a post I made here on two threads. I wonder if you can see it. It is on my screen as accepted but Namtillaku can’t see it. There a whole lot of posts above regarding it #25 etc. I posted it at#22 and again #27. It is a long post about Al Gore’s book.
Can you see it?
June 22nd, 2007 at 1:23 amSorry Merlin, I don’t see it. I don’t think I ever saw it, actually. It’s weird how that happens sometimes.
I better git, Zoo Jr wants to get online.
Goodnight Merlin, it was great learning more about you (and your daughter) this eveing. :)
June 22nd, 2007 at 1:35 amI listened to some of his testimony last night on the news. This guy is a real creep. He knows where the bodies are buried but he isn’t going to give them up. He’s a loyal lemming Republic to the end.
June 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 am“I’m confused, I thought Merlin was ‘poking’ (please be a woman, please be a woman) fun at me. Either she was, or you’re now poking fun at Merlin - sounds hawt.”
It is getting really hard to figure out what is “snark” on this site and what is an actual post by a troll. If I misjudged your post, I apologize. I really wish there was some way to have an actual “killfile” on a blog. Sorting through what is a real post, what is a troll post and what is a someone playing with a troll post is very annoying.
June 22nd, 2007 at 9:43 am#45 Comment by Katie — June 22, 2007 @ 9:43 am
Sorting through what is a real post, what is a troll post and what is a someone playing with a troll post is very annoying.
So what are you saying to me, Katie?
June 22nd, 2007 at 4:09 pm