Breaking: Senate Judiciary Committee Authorizes Subpoenas For NSA Domestic Spying Documents
Breaking: Senate Judiciary Committee Authorizes Subpoenas For NSA Domestic Spying Documents
The Senate Judiciary Committee just voted 13-3 to authorize chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) to issue subpoenas for documents related to the NSA warrantless surveillance program. Sens. Arlen Specter (R-PA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Chuck Grassley (R-IA) voted with the Democrats on the committee to authorize the subpoenas for any legal opinions and advice the Bush administration has received regarding the NSA program.
The Center on Democracy & Technology has released a list of the seven “most wanted surveillance documents.” See the full list here.
The confrontation over the documents “could set the stage for a constitutional showdown over the separation of powers.” The Senate Judiciary Committee had previously scheduled to authorize subpoenas last week, but Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) blocked the Judiciary Committee from voting on the subpoenas.
On May 21, the Senate Judiciary Committee made at least its ninth formal request for the documents, but the Justice Department continued its stonewalling. Leahy issued the following statement about today’s vote:
This stonewalling is unacceptable and it must end. If the Administration will not carry out its responsibility to provide information to this Committee without a subpoena, we will issue one. If we do not, we are letting this Administration decide whether and how the Congress will do its job. […]
Why has this Administration been so steadfast in its refusal? Deputy Attorney General Comey’s account suggests that some of these documents would reveal an Administration perfectly willing to ignore the law. Is that what they are hiding? […]
Whatever the reason for the stonewalling, this Committee has stumbled in the dark for too long, attempting to do its job without the information it needs. We need this information to carry out our responsibilities under the Constitution. Unfortunately, it has become clear that we will not get it without a subpoena. I urge the adoption of the subpoena authorization.
The House Judiciary Committee has also threatened to subpoena the NSA documents. In a hearing last month, Principal Assistant Attorney General Alberto Gonzales Steven Bradbury refused the committee’s request to turn over the papers, but refused to assert executive privilege in doing so.
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For the record, spying on americans and the dismissal of the fourth amendment is perfectly acceptable when trying to keep the country safe. If the President happens to come across some information regarding his political opponents, then all the better.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:01 pmYES!!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pmFor the record, ignore the trolls.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pmUm, TP, “Subpoeans” should be “Subpoenas.”
Just sayin’
June 21st, 2007 at 2:03 pmAbout time you stopped “asking”, and started demanding, Congress.
Next question: When the administration fails to comply with these subpoenas (notice I said ‘when’, not ‘if’), what will you do? What measures will you take when these criminals flout the law again?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:04 pmAnd they wonder why the Democrat Congress approval rating is 19%.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:07 pmi’m with #5… no more asking… no more subpoenas that don’t get enforced… no more dilly-dallying… we need, DESPERATELY, accountability NOW…!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:08 pmAnd, yes, I DO take it personally
Roberts and Alito will stop this crap.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:09 pm“And they wonder why the Democrat Congress approval rating is 19%.
Comment by Frank J — June 21, 2007 @ 2:07 pm”
It’s because they HAVE NOT been doing this……
They have been waltzing with them, until now….
I expect to see their approval rating jump up now…..
Although you just can’t stand when someone actually does the job they are suppose to and supports the Constitution…….
June 21st, 2007 at 2:11 pmTP Subpoeans WTF? spellcheck/ college graduates/ junkyard journalists
The Subpoenas are Coming!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pmThe Subpoenas are Coming!
The Subpoenas are Coming!
Sorry it is actually 14%.
Just 14% of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in Congress.
This 14% Congressional confidence rating is the all-time low for this measure, which Gallup initiated in 1973. The previous low point for Congress was 18% at several points in the period of time 1991 to 1994.
Congress is now nestled at the bottom of the list of Gallup’s annual Confidence in Institutions rankings, along with HMOs. Just 15% of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in HMOs. (By way of contrast, 69% of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in the military, which tops the list…)
From the Gallup Guru.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:17 pmHey Harry, please note that the US military tops the list of organizations rated by Gallup at 69%. For the numerically challenged, that means that 56% more people have confidence in the US military than in the Congress.
I give them a 10 for posture and style and I give them a 2 for spine and results.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:19 pmGuess they finally got tired of having their letters ignored?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:19 pmAnd this should have been done ages ago….it is obvious that Bushco are criminals and will not obey the law no matter what. Take the Dictator down, go for the juggular like a junk yard dog, quit pussy-footen’ around.
IGNORE THE TROLLS - Debate good, Trolls suck
June 21st, 2007 at 2:20 pmFlaco = The Joker = Mr. Roboto
June 21st, 2007 at 2:20 pm#12 - that would be a mean / average grade of a 6. Thats a failing grade.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:20 pmThe sub-peons are already here!
Flaco, Jako and Franko…
June 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pmLast month, former Deputy Attorney General James Comey exposed Alberto Gonzales lying under oath regarding the Bush administration’s internal debate over the legality of its NSA domestic surveillance program. Now, former Attorney General John Ashcroft in closed door testimony today before the House Intelligence Committee confirmed that Gonzales once again lied to Congress.
For the story, see:
June 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pm“Ashcroft Contradicts Gonzales’ Testimony on NSA Program.”
Well, it’s about time. Let’s get this show on the road. Let’s get it into the courts and let the courts decide weather or not we will continue to march towards a dictatorship and a fascist state or whether we can take back this once great country.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pmSince there is no domestic spying program what are they going to subpoena?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pmDocuments will reveal that warrantless wiretapping has been used to spy on the CIA, the FBI, Brewster Jennings, Congressman and Senators - the results from which were used to stay a step ahead of the law, and when necessary, blackmail those who opposed the Administration’s “RUSH TO EMPIRE.”
June 21st, 2007 at 2:22 pmJust 14% of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in Congress.
Comment by Frank J — June 21, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
I don’t doubt it, Jake. You won’t find many fans of Congress here. But let this Congress grow some teeth and start to hold BushCo accountable, and then let’s watch that approval rating rise.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:23 pmGo get them Sen. Leahy and take NO prisoners.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:23 pmFor the record, spying on americans and the dismissal of the fourth amendment is perfectly acceptable when trying to keep the country safe.
comment by Jake
perfectly acceptable ?… Creating this phony fear, invading an innocent country so we can call it we are at war in order to spy on Americans… like those opponents running for office and getting the goods on those in order to blackmail if their vote does not go as they prefer….perfectly acceptable?… we will now see won’t we. It is all beginning to unravel.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:25 pmFrank J,
Don’t hide behind it brother. The President can tap anyones phone if he wants. We’re at war, he has war time powers, that means we all give up our constitutional protections during that time. Who cares if these libs don’t like it. I hope the President is spying on Hillary and Obama.
We don’t want these whackos getting control of our country do we? We should use all the power at our disposal to stay in power. Party before country. Let them issue their subpoenas. The founders never meant for these godless freaks to have that power anyway. They were conservatives that enjoyed ruling the “rabble” (that’s my favorite John Adams quote. If only we still had the Aliens and Seditions act to work with)
Ah the good ol days when you could simply jail your political opponents.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:26 pmAt first I was happy to see Specter finally putting some money where his mouth was for once, but then I realized he probably saw the vote was going to be at least 10-6 in favour anyways, so he just lemminged himself in there to look like he has a spine.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:26 pm#5 ~ impeach. Easy beans, just takes a majority vote… then off to the Senate to put the President on trial.
You want it? You got it.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:26 pm“Since there is no domestic spying program what are they going to subpoena?
Comment by Frank J — June 21, 2007 @ 2:21 pm”
YOUR A MORON!!!!
There ABSOLUTELY IS A DOMESTIC SPYING PROGRAM…….
I guess you MISSED the lawsuit against AT&T that PROVES this was implimented only 3 weeks after Bush got into office…..
IDIOT!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:26 pmNine requests?! Push comes to shove — what will these Dems do? I’m less than sanguine…
June 21st, 2007 at 2:31 pmAnd yes, Specter is a weaselous tool.
For the record, spying on americans and the dismissal of the fourth amendment is perfectly acceptable when trying to keep the country safe. If the President happens to come across some information regarding his political opponents, then all the better.
Comment by Jake — June 21, 2007
Spoken like a true neo-conservative Nazi.
-GSD
June 21st, 2007 at 2:32 pmDO YOU GET IT NOW?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW BLACKMAIL HAS PLAYED A ROLE IN EVERYTHING THAT HAS TRANSPIRED SINCE BUSH TOOK OFFICE?
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF BEING ABLE TO WIRETAP WITHOUT A WARRANT?
HOW DID ISRAEL KNOWN THE INFORMATION ABOUT FOLEY?
WHY DOES CONGRESS VOTE WITH ISRAEL ON EVERYTHING?
WHY DO YOU THINK ONLY MEN OF LOW MORAL CHARACTER ARE PUT INTO THE SYSTEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
GET A CLUE AMERICA.
BLACKMAIL IN D.C. IS RAMPANT.
WHO CONTROLS THE WIRETAPS?
ISRAEL DOES:
Regarding Falwell’s recounting of how he worked with Netanyahu in undermining Clinton’s pressure on Israel, Vanity Fair reported:
On a visit to Washington, D.C. in 1998, Netanyahu hooked up with Jerry Falwell at the Mayflower Hotel the night before [Netanyahu’s] scheduled meeting with Clinton. “I put together 1,000 people or so to meet with Bibi [Netanyahu] and he spoke to us that night,†recalls Falwell. “It was all planned by Netanyahu as an affront to Mr. Clinton.†. . . The next day, Netanyahu met with Clinton at the White House. “Bibi told me later,†Falwell recalls, “that the next morning Bill Clinton said, ‘I know where you were last night.†The pressure was really on Netanyahu to give away the farm in Israel. It was during the Monica Lewinsky scandal . . . . Clinton had to save himself, so he terminated the demands [to relinquish West Bank territory] that would have been forthcoming during that meeting, and would have been very bad for Israel.†(END OF VANITY FAIR EXCERPT)
What Falwell did not mention—at least as reported by Vanity Fair—is that his meeting with the Israeli leader took place on the very evening before the mass media in America broke open the Monica Lewinsky scandal with much fanfare.
LOOK AT THIS ENTIRE 4 PART SERIES ON FOX:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
GET A CLUE!!!!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:33 pmSince there is no domestic spying program what are they going to subpoena?
Comment by Frank J
What drugs are you on?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:35 pmThey have been tracking phone conversations between Al Qaeda cells in Europe for example and Senator Dick Turban. Which they should be doing. But there is no spying going on between American citizen to American citizen unless that American is overseas calling on Dick Turban or Valarie Plame for example.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:39 pmOK everyone, Jake is pulling our collective legs or completely insane. My guess is the former so let’s back off on our reactions.
The real problem becomes one of what can be done in a timely manner. Bush will indeed object to the subpoena and refuse to respond based upon executive privilege, national security and inherent powers of the Commander in Chief. The Republicans in Congress will insist that the matter must be handled by the courts. Unfortunately, the Bushco courts are unlikely to resolve the matter until long after Bush has left office. What should we do then? Impeach, of course. Reid and the others ought to draft charges against both Bush and Chenney. Reid and Pelosi need to go to the public and outline the seriousness of the constitutional crisis which has and is currently occuring.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:40 pmThe title is a bit misleading, isn’t it?
The committee didn’t issue subpoenas rather authorized Leahy to issue them.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:42 pmbush at 26% in new newsweek poll.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pm“American voters are fooled into believing their elected officials in Congress are actually governing for them.” Better headline no?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pmWe’re at war, he has war time powers, that means we all give up our constitutional protections during that time.
We’re at war? Where are we at war? Iraq is an occupation, and we’ve abandoned the ‘war on terror’ when we stopped trying to bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice.
Try again.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:44 pmActually, the rule as developed by the federal courts is the president can eavesdrop on anyone he wants - citizen or not, inside or outside the US - without a warrant so long as it is for foreign intelligence. No comment as to whether it is a good rule or not. Just, it’s the rule.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:45 pmWill ya just impeach Cheney already and stop wasting time with these dog and pony shows?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:45 pmRamboTroll wonders:
Why isn’t there enough diversity? We don’t have enough Albanians, Muslims, Femules, extracted Uterus’, Afganistanees, Cubans, etc., etc., etc., etc.
That diversity, that wholesome diversity to enrich our lives, where is it?
Diversity.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:46 pmFranky J:
Shall we meet at our regular motel room for our Foley sandwich tonight?
Love you always… XOXOXO
June 21st, 2007 at 2:46 pm“ the president can eavesdrop on anyone he wants - citizen or not, inside or outside the US - without a warrant so long as it is for foreign intelligence. No comment as to whether it is a good rule or not. Just, it’s the rule.
Comment by cfoster — June 21, 2007 @ 2:45 pm”
Actually, that is INCORRECT!
He can spy on OUTGOING, or INCOMMING but not DOMESTIC!!!
Please provide the law, or show me where the Constitution CLEARLY states this….
June 21st, 2007 at 2:48 pmSee you then, Jake! Room 69 at the Neo-c*ck Motel.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:48 pmSounds like we are back to square one in your attempt to “Crash The Gatesâ€. I was alarmed when the leading Democratic presidential candidates fell all over themselves trying to demonstrate who was the better Christian. Last week, Obama had a video of some woman singing about a crush she had on him, which crushed his poll numbers down to John Edwards level - that is some crush. Yesterday, I see Chris Matthews and friends begging Bloomberg to get into the race, hoping Gore would be a running mate. Now, I see you guys re-addressing the talk radio gap again.
I guess the head of steam you all built up to win control of congress, has now backfired (as I predicted, and Raum Emanuel dreaded) with the Democratic congress having an approval rating lower the dubya’s. You were wise to hide Nanci Pelosi and Harry Reid prior to the election, but we have all seen them in action, and the US says “Yuckâ€.
Don’t worry, all of this was an exercise in futility. I told you politics would not change until Hill’reh ran and lost, so it never mattered what you did - win or lose. Hill’reh will do anything to be the Dem candidate, and as such, will lose to any Rep put against her, under any circumstances, so just sit back and enjoy the show, as I am.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:49 pmFor the record: Jake showed up earlier today, then abandoned his name in favor of “Frank J” when he got abused on another thread. The Jake posting on this thread is a Jake-parody.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:50 pmIf there is one thing, that will bring impeachment, it would be Bush spying on Americans for no reason other then political gain. This type of intrusion would destroy his presidency, and bring impeachment faster then you can say oh shit.
The trolls have a very strong reason to fear this action, and to try to trivialize it as much as possible. They know that if bush and cheney did this, nothing well keep him as president.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:52 pmRambo,
Here’s some diversity for ya.
Hope it doesn’t corrupt your software.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:52 pmRamboTroll inquires:
Got diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity?
June 21st, 2007 at 2:52 pmGot diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity? Got diversity?
#45. Sadly, I must agree with much of what you say. As a progressive, I’m nearly as sick of the Dems as I am of the Repugs.
None of them really want anything to change…well maybe a few of them do…but not nearly enough.
Hillary would start wearing an orange afro wig if she thought it would appeal to the masses - she makes me sick. I think Edwards is about the only candidate I could vote for at this point.
Peace.
June 21st, 2007 at 2:56 pmDon’t worry, all of this was an exercise in futility. I told you politics would not change until Hill’reh ran and lost, so it never mattered what you did - win or lose. Hill’reh will do anything to be the Dem candidate, and as such, will lose to any Rep put against her, under any circumstances, so just sit back and enjoy the show, as I am. Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 21, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Should we measure your *expertise* against your 2006 election predictions? You’d think you Jake*sses would have *luhrned* how st*pid and out of touch you were, then. But noooo, instead you attempt to *re-write* history by saying “I told you, blah, blah, blah”, as though you have some *history* of being right about anything!
You’re a st*pid little b!tch, come out of the closet, and stop loathing yourself - Aspergers wako!
June 21st, 2007 at 2:59 pmFor the record, spying on americans and the dismissal of the fourth amendment is perfectly acceptable when trying to keep the country safe.
In the immortal words of KRS-ONE, “Who protects us from you?”
June 21st, 2007 at 3:01 pmMr. Hendler,
I will put your predictions for the 2008 election, into the same pile, as your 2006 election predictions. If I remember correctly you were saying the republicans would keep control and gain seats in both congress, and the senate. How did that work out for ya?
for the record, I am not a Hillary fan, and sincerely hope the democrats will actually get someone who is not a power hungry fanatic to run for president. The republicans seem to want to stick to that model, so if it is a choice between between one of them and hillary, I think most Americans will hold thier nose and vote for her. The dems may be the party of no ideas, but at least it beats the party of bad ideas.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:08 pmRamboTroll serves a reminder:
Liberal depreciation day is coming soon! Remember, get your security devices ready to fend of the protesters (liberals, DUH) who will almost certainly try to railroad this legitimate day. They may try to introduce legislation which would allow third-word criminal slops into the country - millions of them!
RamboTroll Reporting Section ™. All Liberals Disbursed.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:09 pmSubpoenas are like Confederate money… worthless scraps of paper. Do you really think ANYTHING will come of this?
June 21st, 2007 at 3:12 pmRamboTroll still hasn’t received an answer to this politically-correct (cover for ‘politically-extreme’) question:
Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity?
Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity? Got Diversity?
Why, somebody should know.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:13 pmPlease provide the law,
“virtually every court that had addressed the issue had concluded that the President had the inherent power to collect foreign intelligence information, and that such surveillances constituted an exception to the warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment.” United States v. Duggan, 743 F.2d 59, 72 (2d Cir. 1984). (See also, United States v. Clay, 430 F.2d 165 (5th Cir. 1970); United States v. Butenko, 494 F.2d 593 (3d Cir. 1974); United States v. Truong, 629 F.2d 908 (4th Cir. 1980).
also,
“We take for granted that the President does have that authority [to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information] and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.” In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001. FISA Court.
The location of the plaintiffs in these cases was irrelevant. What was relevant to the decisions was the purpose of the eavesdropping - thata it be for foreign intelligence. In Truang, for instance, the wiretap was in the plaintiff’s house in the United States.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:17 pm“They may try to introduce legislation which would allow third-word criminal slops into the country - millions of them!
RamboTroll Reporting Section â„¢. All Liberals Disbursed.
Comment by RamboTroll — June 21, 2007″
maybe they’ll introduce legislation to deport anyone who uses ‘disbursed’ instead of ‘dispersed’
June 21st, 2007 at 3:18 pmAgain, no comment as to whether the rule is good or bad. Just, it’s the rule.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:18 pm““virtually every court that had addressed the issue had concluded that the President had the inherent power to collect foreign intelligence information, and that such surveillances constituted an exception to the warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment.†United States v. Duggan, 743 F.2d 59, 72 (2d Cir. 1984). (See also, United States v. Clay, 430 F.2d 165 (5th Cir. 1970); United States v. Butenko, 494 F.2d 593 (3d Cir. 1974); United States v. Truong, 629 F.2d 908 (4th Cir. 1980).
also,
“We take for granted that the President does have that authority [to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information] and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.†In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001. FISA Court.
The location of the plaintiffs in these cases was irrelevant. What was relevant to the decisions was the purpose of the eavesdropping - thata it be for foreign intelligence. In Truang, for instance, the wiretap was in the plaintiff’s house in the United States.
Comment by cfoster — June 21, 2007 @ 3:17 pm”
I think your missing a VERY KEY WORD……
foreign intelligence
It does not say any form of intelligence……
Sorry, but you HAVE NOT proven your case…..
It does not SHOW that DOMESTIC spying can be lumped into FOREIGN spying….
June 21st, 2007 at 3:22 pmRamboTroll serves notice to commenter ‘pgw’:
We don’t accept guidance regarding minor editorial oversights from commoners, sir. If there was a deportation order for every spelling error, we feel you’d be deported to the inner-depths of hell by now.
Thank you, regardless, for your readership.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pmHere’s more breaking news:
By Marcus Mabry
Newsweek
Updated: 8:49 a.m. PT June 21, 2007
June 21, 2007 - In 19 months, George W. Bush will leave the White House for the last time. The latest NEWSWEEK Poll suggests that he faces a steep climb if he hopes to coax the country back to his side before he goes. In the new poll, conducted Monday and Tuesday nights, President Bush’s approval rating has reached a record low. Only 26 percent of Americans, just over one in four, approve of the job the 43rd president is doing; while, a record 65 percent disapprove, including nearly a third of Republicans.
Keep it up, chympie, let’s see if you can register a negative number!
June 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pmWhat’s a subpoena? Law.
Who’s in charge of law? DoJ
Who’s the ultimate decider of law? SCOTUS
Make the connections on your own. Do you REALLY think anything will come from any friggin’ subpoenas?
June 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pm“What was relevant to the decisions was the purpose of the eavesdropping - thata it be for foreign intelligence”
Also…
NO ONE can declare that spying on MILLIONS of DOMESTIC calls/email is part of foreign intelligence…..
Fishnets do not count in anyway, shape, or form of intelligence gathering…..
Also, there must BE PROOF that the information is actually for foreign intelligence…..
Just the WH stating that this is what it is for is AGAINST the Constitution in MANY ways…..
June 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pmFirst, the President used to have the authority to exercise surveillance without a warrant within the US for foreign intelligence. Any surveillance not directed against that object would constitute a potential civil or criminal violation by the executive.
Abuses of this authority led to the passage of legislation limiting the authority of the executive to engage in these activities. Please note that Congress does have the authority to define and limit these areas. (Steel cases) Indeed, this led to the creation of the FISA court.
The conservatives seem to believe that such authority justifies any actions taken by the President. It does not.
1. The President’s actions prior to and after FISA required the appropriate nexus to foreign intelligence gathering.
2. FISA added the requirement for a subpoena..
3. Any abuse of the authority or failure to obtain warrants are criminal violations of law and thus subject to Congressional review.
4. Any non-crinminal abuse would still be an appropriate area for oversight. This is a democracy and the elected senators and representatives constitute the voice and eyes of the people.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:28 pmTruong involved domestic spying in order to gather foreign intelligence. It is irrelevant where the parties are located so long as you are spying on them to gather foreign intelligence. All the parties can be in the US, and if what they are discussing constitutes foreign intelligence, no warrant is required to eavesdrop.
In other words, under the law, no warrant would be required to listen in on a conversation between foreign spies, both of whom happen to be located in the US.
Again, no comment as to whether the rule is good or bad. Just, it’s the rule.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:28 pm“If there was a deportation order for every spelling error, we feel you’d be deported to the inner-depths of hell by now.”
or worse, like massachusetts, right? it’s just funny that you rail against immigrants as ‘third-world criminals’ when your own understanding of the english language is mediocre at best.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:31 pmKyl Is Comfortable Being Unassociated With The Truth
June 21st, 2007 at 3:35 pmAs you will remember, it was Kyl, Brownback and Graham that lied to the Supreme Court in an Amicus Brief in Hamden v. Rumsfeld. Kyl’s explanation at the time was that the voters are too stupid to understand how the Senate works. He feels it is better to make up rules as you go along and take no responsibility for what you say or do. Also remember that the liar McCain was his campaign manager in the last election. Anyone want to stroll through the market in Baghdad with him for a rug?
Last week, Obama had a video of some woman singing about a crush she had on him, which crushed his poll numbers down to John Edwards level - that is some crush
Wow.
You realise that the video was made by a third party who is not affiliated with Obama, right?
Look here Neo Cons, if we get to blame Obama for third party productions, then logically we certainly get to hold Cheney and Bush accountable for the illegal behavior of people inside their own Administration, right?
June 21st, 2007 at 3:36 pmFISA added the requirement for a subpoena..
Unless those courts who have placed the president’s power to eavesdrop without a warrant in the constitution are correct. In that case, mere legislation could not impact the constitutional powers of the executive.
No comment as to whether those courts who have placed the power in the constitution are correct or not. Just, if they’re right, then the legislature can’t wipe away the power by passing a law.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pm“All the parties can be in the US, and if what they are discussing constitutes foreign intelligence, no warrant is required to eavesdrop.
In other words, under the law, no warrant would be required to listen in on a conversation between foreign spies, both of whom happen to be located in the US.
Again, no comment as to whether the rule is good or bad. Just, it’s the rule.”
Again…..
The only eavesdropping that can take place is OUT of or INTO the US…..
That is FOREIGN!!!! ANYTHING inside the US is DOMESTIC….
Sorry, but your interpretation needs some work…..
The CONSTITUTION does not MENTION anything about this….. It does HOWEVER, state that doing so without a warrant is ILLEGAL!!!
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
You can site those rulings, but that does NOT meant they are correct in this context….. You can try and take one court case and mix it with what is happening, but they are NOT the same.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:38 pmIt’s about time.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:38 pmYou can site those rulings, but that does NOT meant they are correct in this context…..
Oh, well of course. I thought I made it clear I was merely stating the rule as developed by the federal courts. I explicitly and repeatedly made no representations regarding its correctness. They might very well be wrong. I have no problem with your claim there.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:41 pm#58 cfoster,
If, as you seem to surmise, these programs are ONLY being used to gather intelligence that originates or culminates overseas, then why is the administration stonewalling? Why don’t they just provide the documents which would, in your estimation here, exonerate them since it would show that they stayed within the bounds of the law?
The short answer is that you’re wrong and these documents will prove rampant disregard for the law, the Constitution, and the American people in general.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:42 pmRamboTroll issues final citation:
Commoner dissent is not accepted, as we stated earlier, Mr. PGW.
May we ask you to return to your usual cantankerous routine of chasing passer-byers with broken bottles. And please, don’t forget the Social Security-issued whippersnapper broomstick. Thank you.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:45 pmgreen917,
I’m not representing that the program is legal. I don’t have enough information to know. It might very well be illegal. I’m intrigued by the committee’s subpoena. It will be an interesting constitutional battle.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:48 pmMe suspects cfoster of being Jake.
Me suspects “RamboTroll” of being deranged, and a pretty lame imitation of RoboTroll.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:49 pm“And please, don’t forget the Social Security-issued whippersnapper broomstick. Thank you.
Comment by RamboTroll — June 21, 2007″
you can’t give up the “pretending i’m a computer and referring to myself in 3rd person in my own posts” schtick, can you? and i thought you didn’t do “generational bashing”?
June 21st, 2007 at 3:50 pmno, I’m me.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:50 pmJake: ….and if a few innoncents get tortured or killed that’s just tough because as we know that here in Nazi Germany — ah, make that Bush’s America, the State would never abuse its authority or do anything to reward its friends or punish dissenters, and all that clap trap about the founding fathers and democracy just pales into insignificance because losers like “Jake” and George W are afraid.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pm“Me suspects cfoster of being Jake.
Comment by spit take — June 21, 2007 @ 3:49 pm”
I don’t think so….
He has a different tone in his writting…
Something that Jake has not been able to do in the many other aliases taken.
Besides, cfoster actually debates in a reasonable manner.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pmSo, please stop saying that the Democratic Congress is doing nothing. They are indeed working hard on this as fast as the wheels of government allow. Remember that the Watergate break-in happened in June 1972, but Nixon was able to stonewall another 26 months before resigning. Send your Democratic senator or representative a note of encouragement to keep them going.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pmComment by spit take
Mr. spit take, we’ve decided to cut back on the output of our other model,
June 21st, 2007 at 3:54 pmRoboTroll 3100. Never fear, however. RoboTroll 3100 will still post, just less often.
It is a scary fact of life….. the odds that those oncoming headlights are being directed by an idiot so stupid that he believes bush%co is 1 in 4. that he gets his news from fox news (conservative comedy central) is 1 in 4. that he lives in a trailor with a gun under his pillow is 1 in 4.
you can fool some of the people some of the time… but apparently 1 in 4 is willing to be fooled all the time.
you would think that to issue these subpoenas, they would need to buy a spine or rent some balls (sub penis).
June 21st, 2007 at 3:56 pmRamboTroll issues:
Mr. pgw, sir. I don’t know where you’re getting your information. RamboTroll Reporting Section ™ is a diverse and fresh entity.
Now, since your complaints are off-tangents, we must devote our time taking legitimate concerns. Thank you and have a liberal day.
June 21st, 2007 at 3:59 pmAGREE ON #81…
it is the GOP morons who constantly repeat that “they are all the same, dem and rep”
BULLSHIT
cheap labor…..republican
unions…..democrat
living wages….democrat
health care….democrat
accountability….democrat
most guys going to prison EVEN THOUGH they controlled the courts and pressured the DAs, and held congress and the pres and supremes…. republicans
(and dont go mentioning Jefferson and his frozen assets and cold cash…. even the dems have a couple scum we are ashamed of…. we just kick them off committees and ask them to leave the room—)
June 21st, 2007 at 4:01 pmAnyone expecting the courts to uphold the rule of law rather than Republican rule are going to be sorely disappointed.
June 21st, 2007 at 4:07 pm“Now, since your complaints are off-tangents, we must devote our time taking legitimate concerns. Thank you and have a liberal day.
Comment by RamboTroll — June 21, 2007″
oh, so you’re not pretending to be a computer? i guess i misunderstood what a ‘reporting section’ is. maybe it’s because i’m so old [see hilarious “whippersnapper broomstick” comment].
June 21st, 2007 at 4:10 pmIn response to cfoster’s BS in post #56…
Maybe you’d like to address why it is that John Ashcroft — no civil libertarian by any measure — ran away from this program as fast as his goose-stepping legs could carry him? Could it be that he wanted to stay out of prison?
Every argument you raise was advanced by the criminals in charge of the DOJ and has been clobbered by any serious legal analyst. Like here, for example:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18650
June 21st, 2007 at 4:15 pmSeems that hag Rice got subpoenae’d too, and continues to ignore it. Who thinks anybody in this “administration” gives a rat’s ass about the law? How naive!
June 21st, 2007 at 4:23 pmWouldn’t there have to be a criminal investigation to overcome an executive privilege claim?
June 21st, 2007 at 4:25 pmFor the record, spying on americans and the dismissal of the fourth amendment is perfectly acceptable when trying to keep the country safe.
Comment by Joke — June 21, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Yup.
If we were a bunch of snibbling cowards, like you.
June 21st, 2007 at 4:30 pmAnd they wonder why the Democrat Congress approval rating is 19%.
Comment by Frank J — June 21, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
Which is amazingly higher than the approval rating of the previous republican congress.
Of course, as badley hated as that lot was, we had no where to go but up.
June 21st, 2007 at 4:32 pmWhen they start locking up these republican pigs, their approval rating will begin to climb.
June 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmMe suspects “RamboTroll†of being deranged, and a pretty lame imitation of RoboTroll.
Comment by spit take — June 21, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
You obviously don’t know your RNC ™ Trolls.
June 21st, 2007 at 4:36 pmJake, I’ll be doing some hack work to find out where you are. Then I’ll see whats on your computer, what sites you visit, what your email contact list is then I will report it here.
June 21st, 2007 at 5:02 pmI know you wont complain, because I’ll be doing it for the best of reasons. You see I think you might be one of those right wing militia types judging from your posts. I’ll do anything to keep this country safe, including abridging your fourth amendment rights. I know you wont mind since we both agree that in order to keep this country safe the fourth amendment should take a back seat or even abolished.
Now don’t go cheating on me by erasing information on your computer. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about.
Oh and feel free to make phone calls and write emails. By the way I promise not to sell or give any of your private records to anyone that doesn’t have a legitimate interest in your activities.
I’m so glad we agree on these matters. It makes it so much easier when people submit to this scrutiny.
#1 - Jake, you could NOT be more wrong. Spying on Americans can ONLY be done within the context of the LAW and of the CONSTITUTION. To say otherwise is UNAMERICAN.
When did you Conservatives become such frightened, little, people? There are WORSE things in the world than dying, you know. And, living in a “Big Brother” Police State is one of them.
In 20 years (from Reagan to GWB) the GOP has lead us from being a nation that believed that is was better to “Live Free or Die” to becoming a sniveling group of frightened little sheeple bleeting “Save me, save me. Take away all of my rights, but, for the love of GOD, save me from the bad people.”
Grow up. Be a man.
June 21st, 2007 at 5:06 pmThose that give up essential freedoms to gain a little security deserves neither freedom or security.
Do you think our forefathers gave up thier freedoms when they were at war against the british? Do you think they had it any easier when they faced hanging for treason against king george? Too many people are just afraid and want someone to protect them from everything, even themselves. If only those people would remember that none of us have anything to fear except fear itself.
June 21st, 2007 at 5:08 pmWhy do the trolls ignore the fact that three repugs sided with the dems?Is it because Hatch,Grassley and Specter realize that the repugs are on life support?Hmm.I’m thinking yes,they most certainly do.In fact it looks like major organ damage is certain.Of course it has been brain dead for years now so this is to be expected when death nears.Will someone please call a priest and give them their last rites.Tee Hee.
June 21st, 2007 at 5:33 pmWell said Krashkopf.I’ve been saying that same thing for years,why are these people so afraid of fringe group of ragtag muslim malcontents?OOO the boogeyman is going to get us!What a bunch a maroons!
June 21st, 2007 at 5:39 pmSorry Senators,
Bring the witnesses in to testify. WHEN, let me reply that, WHEN they lie and stonewall arrest them on the spot! Send them to prison until the end of the term of COngress. Fill the prison with the criminals of this administration. See how fast the GOP criminals start spilling the beans then.
June 21st, 2007 at 7:36 pmFor the record, anyone who suggests that it is acceptable to dismiss the Fourth Amendment and illegally spy on U.S. Citizens and is acting in manner both treasonous and seditious.
“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
June 21st, 2007 at 9:12 pm- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Well, Gonzales just needs to give these documents over to…Dick Cheney’s office. In this way, Congress can’t touch them. Especially since Dick Cheney’s right-wing nutjob office has declared that it is not part of our democratic nation’s executive branch anymore. Which must mean, per Keith Olbermann, that Dick Cheney now considers himself to be a sovereign nation unto himself, who doesn’t belong to any of the constitutionally-created branches of our democratic government. Not the executive. Not the legislative. Not the judicial.
Which actually means that Congress can declare war against Dick Cheney, invade him (per Keith Olbermann), and hunt him down like Saddam Hussein was hunted down, finally capturing the regenade Vice President in whatever hole he’s been hiding in, and bring him to justice. Ooops, maybe Gonzales shouldn’t hand over these documents to Cheney’s rogue “sovereign nation” office after all.
Can the “culture of corruption” neo-con Republicans possibly corrupt our culture any more than they’ve already done?
June 21st, 2007 at 9:14 pmSince there is no domestic spying program what are they going to subpoena?
Comment by Frank J — June 21, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
[Bush] also said that the electronic monitoring was limited to people with “known al Qaeda ties and/or affiliates.” Any domestic calls, the president said, would go through the secretive FISA court.
http://www.cnn.com/ 2006/ POLITICS/ 01/ 01/ nsa.spying/ index.html
Idiot.
June 21st, 2007 at 11:34 pmKudos to Patrick Leahy and his committee! Let’s knock down the stone walls.
June 21st, 2007 at 11:48 pmComment by cfoster — June 21, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
You offer an interesting take on this issue.
However, if the information you provide could be used to cover Bush’s actions, I do believe his administration would be pouncing on it at every opportunity and Tony Snow would be trotting it out any time a reporter challenged him with a question about warrantless wiretapping. Yet the administration hasn’t demonstrated this. I’ve archived quite a few quotes (and notated sources, mostly CNN.com) from administration officials regarding the warrantless wiretapping program; they mention nothing related to your data.
Plus, IF your data exonerates Bush, then it more than ever shows that he is more interested in playing the fear card than providing evidence, Congressional subpoenas or not, that the NSA’s actions are fully covered under law. Here’s why I say this:
George Bush:
and
Here’s the problem I’ve always had with this: if we have one terrorist operative in Los Angeles calling another one in Dallas to give the go-ahead for an attack…I believe this qualifies as a domestic call since it originates and ends in the U.S….Bush runs to the FISA court to get a warrant.
He’s not concerned about acting fast and preventing attacks in this situation. But he is when the conversation involves one person located outside the U.S.
Finally, this observation. The NSA reportedly went to the phone companies and requested calling records of tens of millions of Americans. One company they went to was Qwest. As you may recall, Qwest asked for a warrant and the government refused and simply walked away.
Now, if the NSA was truly interested in using these calling records in its efforts to track terrorists, don’t you think they’d produce the warrants, which should have been very easily obtained if indeed the wiretapping program was targeting a select group of people, as the administration has declared, namely that of known or suspected terrorists???
June 22nd, 2007 at 12:09 amWhere are the clowns, bring in the clowns. Oh, it doesn’t matter the clowns are right here.
June 22nd, 2007 at 12:27 ammy god it’s about time what have they been waiting for this is the slowest train in the world
like atrios says, no wonder everyone hates congress (although he made the remark in relation to other circumstances, i.e. the war )
June 22nd, 2007 at 4:04 amlook this is what is known as a government mafia, the bush admin from the gitgo has ran their couped admin like the mafia, the us laws have a remedy for this,
June 22nd, 2007 at 7:10 amRICO STATUTES. IN ONE WEEKS TIME ALL AMERICANS COULD KNOW JUST HOW MUCH THE CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE AKA THE BUSH ADMIN HAD DEFRAUDED THE US TREASURY OF , IF THESE STATUTES WERE USED AGAINST THEM. RICO ALLOWS FOR PRETRIAL SEIZURE OF ALL ASSETS.
June 22nd, 2007 at 7:13 amsee http://hotshadow.com/ NSA_Domestic_Spying_Documents.aspx
June 22nd, 2007 at 10:28 amJake is just jerking your chain. He repeats his little mantra to “catapult” the propaganda. He has been brainwashed so he has to repeat the same message over and over and over again because he doesn’t have the capacity to think for himself or understand the importance of this issue.
Bush might as well said , “I spy because I can”. He has no respect for the Constitution, the rule of law, civil liberties, or the American people (including Jake–deluded little Bushie that he is).
June 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pmYou all are a bunch of looney left wing coolaid drinking asses!You just cant get over the fact that Bush beat that dumb ass Gore and his sissy want to be VP Edwards! All you can do is cry over some stupid cia leak when in the big picture you have no solutions to any problem it’s just blame Bush! blame Bush! How about grow some BAlls Try inforcing immogration laws and kicking illegals that commit crimes out of this country,and telling other countries we will not allow them support terrorism, keeping taxes low for all.Tell people who abuse wellfair to get off their asses and work that way the money you save can keep you from raising taxes,cut out pork spending, Start exacuting more of these worthless people who kill other people! You think we can find someone who can put the politics aside and do what about 80% of americans want?Find a Dem that will do that and im on board! You show how pathetic you are when you blame one Guy for all the worlds problems.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:42 amHey Jhon go back to disneyland you stupid left wing F-uCk!Personally most of American dont give a shiT!what you think anyway the fact of this is he is spying on terrorist!OK numb NuTS!Terrorist! not people who mean something!Terrorist! if he stop an attack on us then its worth it.Your just paranoid if you think he is somehow going to wire tap you! You just want to blame Bush!Blame Bush and you stupid asses are the ones that just tow the same line week after week!!!Try watching something other that cnn or all the other left leaning news programs and getting your info from the crazy conspiracy web sites .YOU judging other people !!!!hahaha Go crawl back under your rock where you belong!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:10 am