There was a study done with heart patients & Prayer.

In total, complications occurred in 59 percent of those who were prayed for, compared with 51 percent of those who received no prayers, a significant difference.

Deaths during the 30 days after surgery were similar across groups, 13 and 16 in the prayed-for group, 14 in the no-prayer group.

The big mystery is why there was an excess of complications in patients who knew all those people were praying for them. The researchers admit they have “no clear explanation.”

Comment by Wayne — June 21, 2007 @ 11:42 pm

I’m not a churchy, but the likely explanation is a statistical anomoly. Remember that although it is unlikely, rolling the same number on a die ten times in a row is possible, just not probable. Same with this study. The significant portion of the study is that time and time again (study after study), these praying studies show no difference between each group. Humans like order so we tend to think there is a reason for that anomoly, but really it’s just because the random selection of patients happened to place a few people who were actually sicker in one group. It just proves there’s no difference. Imagine if that anomoly went the other direction? We wouldn’t hear the end of it from the mega-religious, even if no other study could replicate the findings.

Of course, that didn’t happen and now the religiously devout will say that god doesnt respond to canned prayers for the only purpose of studying him (i refuse the capital “H”) or something to that effect. it’s always a clever excuse why we can’t find real evidence. Carl Sagan said it best when he talked about the invisible dragon in his neighbor’s garage. :-)

Hebrews 11:6

6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Don’t believe a scientific experiment to validate this is what was intended by the Hebrews writer.

You may read the rest of the chapter to understand why Christianity is not a blind faith – the cloud of witnesses, but something tells me you’ve already read this.

It is not faith in Jesus Christ that leads to evil action.

You plead well for meaninglessness.

Do you recommend it?

And what’s interesting is that these studies are conducted entirely with religious people.

Funny that they are demonstrating why blind faith is necessary to be a believer…

Not vitriol – truth.

Prayer does not work.

The Christian bible repeatedly declares that the prayers of their followers will be heard and answered. It even offers numerous examples of specific prayers that have been answered. In fact, many of those answered prayers refer to the health of others.

Psalm 102:17 (New International Version): He will respond to the prayer of the destitute; he will not despise their plea.

Matthew 7:7-8 (NAB) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

John 14:13-14 (NAB) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

James 5:-14:15 (ASV): Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him.

(In fact there were 365 passages that contained the word ‘pray’ in a word search at the online BibleGateway.com)

In spite of these overt promises for divine intervention in times of need, a Duke University study on prayer, conducted solely by people of faith, found otherwise. The study was conducted with coronary patients over the course of a 3-year clinical trial. Its published results had to conclude, based on their findings, that prayer has no significant consequence on a patient’s health, despite copious biblical quotations to the contrary.

Its double-blind trials divided patients awaiting angioplasty surgery, who were selected at random by a computer, into two groups – those who received intercessory prayer from 12 different religious organizations across the planet (but did not know that they were being prayed for), and those who did not (and did not know that they weren’t being prayed for). The resulting health of the patients who received intercessory prayer was essentially the same as those who did not – which were overall similar to the usual and expected results in health of all such angioplasty patients.

Link: http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=9136

Additionally – in the STEP (Study of the Therapeutic Effects of intercessory Prayer) Project, a 10 year long clinical trial authored, conducted and funded by physicians and foundations of faith, in collaboration with six medical centers (including Harvard and Mayo Clinic), the “power of prayer” was the basis for another scientific test that concluded in 2006.

In double-blind studies, 1802 CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) patients were randomly selected and divided into 3 groups: 604 patients who received intercessory prayer after being told that they might or might not receive prayer during their surgery and recovery; 597 patients who did not receive intercessory prayer after being told that they might or might not receive prayer during their surgery and recovery; and 601 patients who received intercessory prayer after being told that they definitely would receive prayer during their surgery and recovery. At the end of the study, it was determined that the group of 604 patients had 52% post-operative complications, the group of 597 patients had 51% post-operative complications, and that the group of 601 patients had 59% post-operative complications.

The published conclusion reported that their study could not only not show that prayer improves a patient’s health, but, in fact, that in those patients who knew they would be prayed for, the risk of complications was highest.

Links:

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16569567&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

You’re right – not a one… Which looks to me like proof of no gods, since these same gods promised to answer prayers.

In fact, in the bible, Jesus many times said that if you prayed, you’d get what you asked for. And the OT god was prolific in granting all sorts of violent prayers for smiting, abortions, and such… Yet he cares not about starving children in Africa, SARS, or curing cancer…

You are projecting again… Those are all your values.

What cult/chruch did you belong to?

Christianity.

It is good you got out and now can hate, judge, fear, want, self-destruct on your own.
Comment by Flaco — June 21, 2007 @ 8:26 pm

Yes, I can choose those things. What’s even better is that I don’t.

The truth isn’t always pleasant. Just because I point out the unpleasant truth does make me anything other than the messenger. Try shooting me all you want, but I’m not going to stop speaking the truth just because you don’t like it.

unbelievable lives in a bubble.
Comment by Flaco — June 21, 2007 @ 8:26 pm

Yes – planet Earth. It is a ‘bubble’ of sorts because it’s a system.

Science will save you unbelievable.
Comment by Flaco — June 21, 2007 @ 8:27 pm

And when you eventually have that impending stroke or develop cancer, it will also save you Flaco – that is if you and your ilk don’t stop fighting it…

That’s nice… they lose because they know prayers are being offered on their behalf and fail for the same reason.

Talk about having it both ways…

If it happened to the control group who were doubly blinded, my guess is that there was no effect, maybe too small of a population.

If it happened to the group who KNEW that they were being prayed for, maybe the stress of not failing their fellow Christians was a contributing factor. Rather than having a calming effect, that you would expect if they truly believed the prayers helped, it would be a test of their faith. And they failed big time.

Comment by Wayne

Kinda sums up Daryll and his fellow trolls here ……….. there is no clear explanation.

In total, complications occurred in 59 percent of those who were prayed for, compared with 51 percent of those who received no prayers, a significant difference.

Deaths during the 30 days after surgery were similar across groups, 13 and 16 in the prayed-for group, 14 in the no-prayer group.

The big mystery is why there was an excess of complications in patients who knew all those people were praying for them. The researchers admit they have “no clear explanation.”

We are “governed” by Neanderthals.

Comment by Flaco — June 21, 2007 @ 8:27 pm

That’s a really stupid statement ‘roun’ here!!!

I know unbelievable and you don’t know sh!t!!

This is not really a fair fight for a moron like you!! But, good luck there pal!!

What’s with all the vitriol against prayer?

There’s a 30% change the prayer will be answered in their favour:

a.) God answers prayer.
b.) God ignores prayer.
c.) God waits.

Even Vegas doesn’t afford you such great odds.

Comment by unbelievable — June 21, 2007 @ 6:03 pm

Right on point…Let me add…that people of ALL religions ON THE ENTIRE FACE OF THE EARTH have been PRAYING FOR WORLD PEACE and NOT ONE GOD OF ANY RELIGION HAS EVER STEPPED UP AND GOT’ER’DONE!!

Comment by unbelievable
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Hating, judging, fearing, wanting, self-destructing, family values?
What cult/chruch did you belong to? It is good you got out and now can hate, judge, fear, want, self-destruct on your own.