Washington Post Profile Reveals Stealthy Cheney Spies On White House Staffers
Washington Post Profile Reveals Stealthy Cheney Spies On White House Staffers
Today, the Washington Post unveiled the first in its lengthy four-part series on the unprecedented influence and power of the vice president.
Shortly after Bush was elected, “Cheney preferred, and Bush approved, a mandate that gave him access to ‘every table and every meeting,’ making his voice heard in ‘whatever area the vice president feels he wants to be active in.’”
According to the article, Cheney used that influence to bypass key presidential aides and thwart any dissent about Bush’s authorization of the unconstitutional military commissions to try detainees. The Post reports “almost no one” had seen the legal draft establishing the commissions, except Cheney’s closest aides. Cheney then took astonishing measures to ensure that internal objections would not reach the President, even resorting to spying on White House staff:
At the White House, [White House national security lawyer John] Bellinger sent Rice a blunt — and, he thought, private — legal warning. The Cheney-Rumsfeld position would place the president indisputably in breach of international law and would undermine cooperation from allied governments. …
One lawyer in his office said that Bellinger was chagrined to learn, indirectly, that Cheney had read the confidential memo and “was concerned” about his advice. Thus Bellinger discovered an unannounced standing order: Documents prepared for the national security adviser, another White House official said, were “routed outside the formal process” to Cheney, too. The reverse did not apply.
Powell asked for a meeting with Bush. The same day, Jan. 25, 2002, Cheney’s office struck a preemptive blow. It appeared to come from Gonzales, a longtime Bush confidant whom the president nicknamed “Fredo.” Hours after Powell made his request, Gonzales signed his name to a memo that anticipated and undermined the State Department’s talking points. The true author has long been a subject of speculation, for reasons including its unorthodox format and a subtly mocking tone that is not a Gonzales hallmark.
A White House lawyer with direct knowledge said Cheney’s lawyer, Addington, wrote the memo. Flanigan passed it to Gonzales, and Gonzales sent it as “my judgment” to Bush. If Bush consulted Cheney after that, the vice president became a sounding board for advice he originated himself.
Attorney General John Ashcroft “was astonished” to learn he had been pushed aside. “What the hell just happened?” Secretary of State Colin Powell asked upon learning through the media that the order had been signed. “National security adviser Condoleezza Rice, incensed, sent an aide to find out.”
The Post notes, “Stealth is among Cheney’s most effective tools.” The talking points for reporters drafted by Cheney’s office are “sometimes stamped ‘Treated As: Top Secret/SCI.’ Experts in and out of government said Cheney’s office appears to have invented that designation, which alludes to ’sensitive compartmented information,’ the most closely guarded category of government secrets. By adding the words ‘treated as,’ they said, Cheney seeks to protect unclassified work as though its disclosure would cause ‘exceptionally grave damage to national security.’”
UPDATE: Laura Rozen writes, “Cheney will go to his grave like others before him thinking he was a great patriot who should not be bound by the laws of this country, or the laws of war. But even with all that secret extra-legal power he yielded and bestowed for all these years, he couldn’t show success on any front when it mattered.”
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OH MY GOD
June 24th, 2007 at 12:43 amI have a way off topic question.
When it comes to Progressives: (Note I am not placing blame or accusing anyone of anything).
If a pregnant woman is murdered: Is it right or proper to charge the person with 2 counts of murder?
I am asking this question out of a simple search for knowlege and understanding.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:45 amWho the hell is really running this country? Seems we have a bunch of mental patients playing “dress up” in daddy’s pinstripe suits and penny loafers.
WTF is going on?
Ship these terrorists off to Gitmo for “vacation” and start asking some tough questions. Hell…if they don’t want to answer, they think that Waterboarding is no big deal. Try it out on them.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:49 am“I have a way off topic question.”
Comment by Tundra
So, like, have you been waiting in the wings all night, waiting for this?
Go back to CBS and spend some more time on the showbuzz page to gather your simple understandings.
This is not like you, Tundra, to pull a “jake” on us happy folk tonight…
The layers of the Cheney onion are beginning to peel away, and it won’t be long before the world (who actually have always known)America, yes, and even George W. Bush will realize who has orchestrated, manipulated, and conned his way into commanding the resources of our nation for his own profit and greed.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:53 amStealth is one of Cheney’s greatest assets, because he is a Sith Lord.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:56 amSo, like, have you been waiting in the wings all night, waiting for this?
Actually I was playing WOW all day and didn’t hear about it till now.
I suppose I could ask a generic website for the answer or ask true progressives I talk to daily.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:56 amGENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
June 24th, 2007 at 12:57 amGENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! GENERAL STRIKE FOR THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
Have you noticed this week how Cheney’s name is coming up more and more?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:00 amThe article on RawStory says that Cheney has shredded Secret Service logs and has man-sized safes for HIS documents.
Add the fact that he has been doing stuff behind a ‘clueless’ Bush is even more scary.
The fact that the MSM will not report this stuff is even scarier.
It does look like the Wash Post is doing a 4-part series on Cheney starting tomorrow so maybe there is hope.
This is the only thing the Sunday talkers should be talking about in the morning, let’s see.
Comment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
That’s a tough question this late–my brain is still on the “Former Fisa…” thread that we took over. Ask it again at a decent hour (in the east) when I can think straight! :-)
June 24th, 2007 at 1:02 amSo how many Senators and Representatives does Darth Veeper have to shoot in the face before they move to impeach him?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:05 amComment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 1:02 am
Fair enough Jane, thanks, I shall. Possibly find a less public forum for this discussion.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:05 amI can’t wait for Cheney to GO TO HIS GRAVE.
I will DANCE on it, while he BURNS IN HELL FOR ETERNITY…
June 24th, 2007 at 1:08 am“Actually I was playing WOW all day”
Comment by Tundra
Sorry, WOW is… a game?
And, in exchange for such requested information, I will particpate in your quest for information, and simple understanding, and state that yes,
June 24th, 2007 at 1:09 amI do believe a murder suspect should be charged with the murder of an unborn carried in the womb of his primary victim.
Especially if he has a relationship with his victim, and may be the parent of, said unborn child.
Understand as well, that if you are going to further divert this thread down the path of the abortion issue, and away from the subject at hand, which is the evil infecting the top tier of the Executive Branch of our government,
I ain’t goin’ there.
Hope I’m progressive enough for you to engage.
[...] the Washington Post unveiled the first in its lengthy four-part series on the unprecedented influence and power of the vice president.
This administration is unique in reach, depth, and breadth of the areas in which it is utterly incompetent. The only things they seem to be good at is backstabbing their own, and ignoring the law.
As Laura Rozen rightly notes, for all the influence and power the VP Cheney wields, he certainly has very little to show for it.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:10 amAsk it again at a decent hour (in the east) when I can think straight! :-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Yeah, I’m still feelin’ a little goofy myself. Wonder if I’ll have a hangover in the morning, or just bruises that show?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:12 amComment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 1:09 am
Yes WOW is a game, called World of Warcraft.
I appreciate your response and will not further hijack this thread.
Any further responses on this off topic subject that I started shall be ignored as I will not be looking.
Thanks Heyzeus!
June 24th, 2007 at 1:17 amI am asking this question out of a simple search for knowlege and understanding.
Comment by Tundra
No, you are just trying to change the topic. I guess you don’t wish to discuss Cheney’s actions.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:18 amCan’t get Rove, Gonzo is still there, time to for the MOONBATS to fling their feces at Cheney again. Progressives are so predictable. I can’t wait until Mrs. Bill is in the White House again; the VRWC is just waiting to crank up the heat.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:18 am“…for all the influence and power the VP Cheney wields, he certainly has very little to show for it.”
Comment by Gregor Samsa
It certainly is a steady stream of failure, incompetence, and horrific waste.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:19 amWaste of time.
Waste of lives.
Waste of resources.
Waste of energy.
Waste of life.
So how many Senators and Representatives does Darth Veeper have to shoot in the face before they move to impeach him?
Comment by RUCerious
Maybe if we could find one person patriotic enough to give him a bl*wj*b?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:21 amMaybe if we could find one person patriotic enough to give him a bl*wj*b?
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:21 am
For your sake, I hope you’re not THAT patriotic! :D
June 24th, 2007 at 1:22 amI think this would be an appropriate time to lobby your representatives to co-sponsor the Cheney impeachment resolution. Call their offices on Monday and make sure they’ve read the Post article. Cheney’s sealed his own fate. It’s time to pull the plug on this treasonous jerk.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:24 amFair enough Jane, thanks, I shall. Possibly find a less public forum for this discussion.
Comment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 1:05 am
Maybe we could meet tomorrow at the old Onion Rings thread from the other day. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/19/althouses-clinton-obsession/#comments
June 24th, 2007 at 1:25 amComment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 1:19 am
I agree; this White House is leaving a lot of death and destruction in its wake, by intent or by neglect -whether we talk about the US Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, Katrina, Iraq, Afghanistan, and a long list of other things.
This is the administration that all the room temperature IQ Bush cult followers come here to defend tooth and nail, against us evil “libruls”.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:26 amYeah, I’m still feelin’ a little goofy myself. Wonder if I’ll have a hangover in the morning, or just bruises that show?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 24, 2007 @ 1:12 am
Damn, Barfly never brought the ice!
June 24th, 2007 at 1:26 amActually, I think Cheney could be easily had,
June 24th, 2007 at 1:26 amby propositioning him with a new battery.
Caption:
“What are YOU looking at?”
June 24th, 2007 at 1:28 amCan’t get Rove, Gonzo is still there, time to for the MOONBATS to fling their feces at Cheney again. Progressives are so predictable. I can’t wait until Mrs. Bill is in the White House again; the VRWC is just waiting to crank up the heat.
Comment by beefeater
Says the rightwing NUTJOB Nazi azzhole-licker of TRAITOR Bush the PUNK
Seems like YOU are Happy that CRIMINALS like Bush, Cheney, Gonzo, etc. commit the CRIMES that they do.
Oh, well, when you Nazis are THROWN OUT OF POWER, I hope REAL Americans, VERY ANGRY, come and KILL YOU and ALL YOUR FAMILY.
And send any survivors to Abu Ghraib to be TORTURED.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:28 amSo how many Senators and Representatives does Darth Veeper have to shoot in the face before they move to impeach him?
Comment by RUCerious
The list is on a piece of paper in one of Cheny’s man-sized (which man>) safes marked “Treat As: Top Secret/SCI”.
In all serousness, it IS against the law to classify something unrelated to national security just to keep it out of the public’s view. Add that to the list of “high crimes and misdemeanors” that Cheney has committed.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:29 am#18 Beef
I take it you are one of the 26% that still thinks this crowd in the WH is doing a good job of representing our country?
Could you name just one success of the Bush administration?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:30 amThanks.
“…..room temperature IQ…… ”
Comment by Gregor Samsa
I like that….
June 24th, 2007 at 1:30 amOh, and for all of you faithful Bush cult followers out there:
No, Clinton did not do it too.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:31 amThis is the only thing the Sunday talkers should be talking about in the morning, let’s see.
Comment by trevjr — June 24, 2007 @ 1:00 am
You’re right, all the talking heads should be talking about Cheney tomorrow (today, here). It will be interesting to see if we bloggers know more about all of his transgressions than the MSM. Sometimes it seems like they take a couple of days to catch up, if they even cover these events at all!
June 24th, 2007 at 1:34 amCheney then took astonishing measures to ensure that internal objections would not reach the President, even resorting to spying on White House staff.
This was simply a tactic used to try to claim “plausible deniability.” Bush could then answers questions about it by saying, “I didn’t hear any objections from my staff.” Of course, that’s not because there weren’t any; it’s because Cheney kept hose objections from reaching the president. A dishonest denial in reality.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:34 amFair enough Jane, thanks, I shall. Possibly find a less public forum for this discussion.
Comment by Tundra
I’f you are talking about the body they found today of the woman days away from delivery I believe the murderer would be guilty of double homicide. That is because the fetus is considered full term after 37 weeks.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:34 amWasn’t so very long ago that Cheney was putting in appearances on the Sunday morning “bull sessions”, peddling his spiel, it will be interesting to see how quickly the tables turn…
June 24th, 2007 at 1:37 amCan’t get Rove, Gonzo is still there, time to for the MOONBATS to fling their feces at Cheney again. Progressives are so predictable. I can’t wait until Mrs. Bill is in the White House again; the VRWC is just waiting to crank up the heat.
Comment by beefeater
What exactly would Cheney have to do for you to stop defending him?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:37 amI doubt you will see anything of substance on any of the talk shows…I’m pretty fu(king disgusted with all this bullshi*
Just as disgusted with the do nothing Dems in the congress. I’ll vote for any new Dem running in a primary. We need to kick out all the old timers and start over.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:39 amWhat exactly would Cheney have to do for you to stop defending him?
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:37 am
Well, we know that it isn’t downing “a beer”, shooting a 78-year-old man in the face, sending his friend out to lie to the press and refusing to submit to a blood alcohol test for the police.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:39 amFor your sake, I hope you’re not THAT patriotic! :D
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 1:22 am
I wouldn’t touch him with somebody else’s … you know. I don’t get that close to EVIL.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:40 amI wouldn’t touch him with somebody else’s … you know. I don’t get that close to EVIL.
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:40 am
Shane, don’t be shy. Go ahead and say it. “Hands.”
June 24th, 2007 at 1:41 amI wouldn’t touch him with somebody else’s … you know. I don’t get that close to EVIL.
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:40 am
Reminds me of Jeffrey Ross’s joke at the Friar’s Roast of Rob Reiner, talking about Penny Marshall: “I wouldn’t f*ck her with Bea Arthur’s dick!”
June 24th, 2007 at 1:45 amWell, we know that it isn’t downing “a beerâ€, shooting a 78-year-old man in the face, sending his friend out to lie to the press and refusing to submit to a blood alcohol test for the police.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
I’m sure beefbutt would say that the old man stuck his face in front of the shotgun because he’s a progressive just looking to embarass the vp.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:45 amShane, don’t be shy. Go ahead and say it. “Hands.â€
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Actually it would be mouth, that’s why it seemed too graphic.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:46 am“…..don’t be shy. Go ahead and say it. “Hands.â€
(just remember the blue rubber gloves, like they use at Guantanamo)
June 24th, 2007 at 1:48 amComment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:46 am
I try not to touch him with my thoughts. :)
June 24th, 2007 at 1:48 amI wouldn’t f*ck her with Bea Arthur’s dick!â€
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
All those year of watching “Maude” are down the toilet now.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:48 amAw, c’mon.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:50 amI just can’t take much more.
These guys gotta go- NOW.
What exactly would Cheney have to do for you to stop defending him?
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 1:37 am
There is no low the Bush cultists will not stoop to in the defence of their Dear (mis)Leader.
Breaking, ignoring the law? Invading a country that posed no threat? Holding people and deny them due process? A little torture while they decide what country to invade next? It’s all in a day’s work for these fascist wannabes.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:50 am“…..talking about Penny Marshall…”
Huh, I was was actually kinda stuck on her,
June 24th, 2007 at 1:51 amback in the day,
I mean,
for a TV girl……
Comment by heyzeus
I try not to touch him with my thoughts. :)
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
From now on I’m putting on blue rubber gloves before I type his name.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:52 amBreaking, ignoring the law? Invading a country that posed no threat? Holding people and deny them due process? A little torture while they decide what country to invade next? It’s all in a day’s work for these fascist wannabes.
Comment by Gregor Samsa
Aren’t they still tracking down the Germans who followed Hitler’s orders. I hope these treasonous trolls spend many sleepless nights for the rest of their lives. They’re complicit in the dissemination of the propaganda used by the Administration to destroy this country.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:56 amBreaking, ignoring the law? Invading a country that posed no threat? Holding people and deny them due process? A little torture while they decide what country to invade next? It’s all in a day’s work for these fascist wannabes.
Comment by Gregor Samsa — June 24, 2007 @ 1:50 am
Sounds like a whole lot of impeachable offenses there. So what’s the holdup? Dreamed up charges? No evidence to convict? Gutless democrat party? Rovian mind meld? You keyboard commandos know all the laws, what’s stopping you?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:58 amMaybe I’m just a foolish optimist but the steady grinding away of the layer of sh*t that is hiding the rot of neofascism is really happening. Progressives can’t point to overwhelming change since November, but I am impressed at the progress that has been made. There has been, and is continuing, a steady pressure, ever mounting across the board which is part of the reason for poll numbers like Bush’s 26% from Newsweek. And they are rock steady numbers!
Go back to how we felt prior to the ‘06 election! There was almost universal despair at the state of country and the direction it was going. Today there is a confident hope that things are definitely better and the end to the neocon rule is just down the road in ‘08. With that, however, is frustration and anger that things are not moving quickly enough. That serious damage continues when it shouldn’t and doesn’t have to.
It is frustrating and anger producing to feel impotent in the face of our “legally” “elected” president and the ilk he dragged in with him. We want and deserve a real group of leaders who understand what the Constitution says and means, and will honor their pledge to follow it faithfully.
If this series by WaPo is a real investigative job, it will be one more agonizingly slow step to ridding the world of these evil monsters. The story now is snapping at Cheney’s heels. I think it is a sign of trouble when Laura B is portrayed in the tabloid press, as has been said here. The underbelly is being exposed and attacked (rightfully or wrongfully). Were there “love” for the first family this would not really happen, as it would not sell.
Let us keep the pressure on, and our will to respond to them high. Be of good cheer, folks. The dawn is happening. Let there be light.
To paraphrase:
June 24th, 2007 at 1:59 amThe mills of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small.
I’d love to see Darth Veeper on the talking head shows tomorrow, if you will.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:01 amwhat’s stopping you?
Comment by beefeater
No what’s stopping you? Are you on the payroll or do you just hate America?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:02 amTo paraphrase:
The mills of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small.
Comment by Merlin
Bravo, my mage!
I know this delightful proverb as given to me thusly:
The wheels of the gods grind slow,
June 24th, 2007 at 2:03 amyet exceedingly fine.
You keyboard commandos know all the laws, what’s stopping you?
Comment by beefeater — June 24, 2007 @ 1:58 am
What’s stopping me? If it were up to me, Cheney et al wouldn’t have even made it into the White House to begin with.
Of course, given your question, it seems you think Abu Ghraib never happened, and that Iraq had WMDs.
You’re yet another self-deluded Bush cult follower.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:07 amAnd Cheney will be spit out from the roll of history
June 24th, 2007 at 2:07 amas one of the last
fat greasy greedy examples
of what humans do not want to become.
No what’s stopping you? Are you on the payroll
Comment by shane — June 24, 2007 @ 2:02 am
I can’t get paid for this board, it’s not important enough. I do this one for the fun of it.
Now DUmmieland and KOSco, that pays! Huffpoo, not so much anymore, what a shame.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:09 amAnd Cheney will be spit out from the roll of history
as one of the last
fat greasy greedy examples
of what humans do not want to become.
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:07 am
Are you making the completely unsupportable claim that Cheney is human?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:09 amNot to mention, beefeater, that the revelation that Cheney spied on White House staffers, and that he pushed aside the Attorney General himself, doesn’t seem to raise any warning flags with you.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:10 am“And Cheney will be spit out from the roll of history
as one of the last
fat greasy greedy examples…”
…of an overdone onion ring.
(Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
June 24th, 2007 at 2:13 am“Laura Rozen writes, “Cheney will go to his grave like others before him thinking he was a great patriot”
Cheney will go to his grave thinking he was the greatest traitor in world history.
He should get to take that knowledge to the GALLOWS, the dirty bastard.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:14 amEvery generation needs a new revolution!
TJ
June 24th, 2007 at 2:14 am“Are you making the completely unsupportable claim that Cheney is human?”
Well, I am the nice guy….
June 24th, 2007 at 2:15 amComment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:03 am
Friedrich von Logau’s Poetic Aphorisms (Sinngedichte) [1654], Retribution:
“Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small.” (Translated by Longfellow).Â
June 24th, 2007 at 2:16 amComment by Gregor Samsa — June 24, 2007 @ 2:10 am
Gregor, beefeater appears to be one of those ignorant people who feel that the president and vice president are above the law and not in any way, shape or form bound by the constitution to which they swore an oath to uphold. They were lying when they raised their hands, and they’re lying now. Their supporters are too frightened to accept the fact that the leaders they hold dear have been using them to further a corrupt, secret and highly unconstitutional agenda. Had this country not had half its head up its butt in 2004, we could have had a Congress willing to fulfillits constitutional obligation of oversight. We are only learning about all of this now because the Republicans are no longer in a position to aid and abet these criminals.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:16 am“…of an overdone onion ring.”
…you guys crack me up!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:16 amSlightly off-topic, but still relevant. I found this opinion and thought to share it (serious subject, funny piece):
President Bush, tired of the regular business of systematically dismantling our democracy, decided Friday to start breaking his own executive orders for a change.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:16 amBush Runs Out of Laws to Break; Resorts to Breaking His Own Executive Orders
Well, I am the nice guy….
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:15 am
Good for you! :D
I wouldn’t be as nice to him as I am to the trolls who visit here!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:18 amCheney is a great man and a great American.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:21 amHe serves as a role model for millions and will be an inspiration for future generations.
BUSH/CHENEY ‘08
June 24th, 2007 at 2:21 amJames Haveman, Executive Director (no relation to poster, honestly!)
Natural Resources Defense Council
Traverse City, Michigan
October 27th, 2003
“the wheels of the gods grind slow,
yet exceedingly fine…”
(Credit, where credit is due…)
June 24th, 2007 at 2:22 amComment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 2:16 am
Like that other IQ-challenged troll, MAF54, who insisted that popular demonstrations, protests are actually anti-democratic (??).
These people’s minds are so twisted they believe an autocratic ruler is what a democracy is about.
No accountability, no taking responsibility -unless they’re talking about the too old, too poor, too young, or too sick to fend for themselves. Disgusting little sociopaths.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:22 am#60 Comment by beefeater — June 24, 2007 @ 2:09 am
I can’t get paid for this board, it’s not important enough. I do this one for the fun of it.
Now DUmmieland and KOSco, that pays! Huffpoo, not so much anymore, what a shame.
You lie like a bear rug at the feet of Prick Chainy. There is no way a troll like you would last three posts on the Daily Kos. So the rest of your posts are then revealed for the trash they are.
You, like the other smelly trolls are a pure laughingstock to me. Time for you to go back to the troll locker room at the West Hollywood Gym for Men and commiserate (look that word up if it confuses you) before you go back to sleep under the bridge.
Pssst… Aren’t you out a bit late trollie? You know VV will be very angry if you aren’t there for headcout.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:26 amCheney is a great man and a great American.
He serves as a role model for millions and will be an inspiration for future generations.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 2:21 am
Of what?? Cyborg criminals?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:27 am“BUSH/CHENEY ‘08″
Yeah, you crack me up too, primo…..
I have a BUSH/CHENEY ‘04 billboard in my neighborhood,
(still up! lazy ass campaign workers, anyways…)
It now has had 5 red paint ballons thrown on it.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:28 amThe red streaks of paint flowing down the face of it are eerily
disturbing.
Prophetic even.
Of what?? Cyborg criminals?
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 2:27 am
Yes, and so much more.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:30 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 2:30 am
“Much more”, like future generations of law breakers. Of failed empire builders. Of torture advocates and assorted war criminals.
So much more indeed.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:32 amIt now has had 5 red paint ballons thrown on it.
The red streaks of paint flowing down the face of it are eerily
disturbing.
Prophetic even.
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:28 am
It symbolizes the blood of Islamo-fascists!!!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:32 amBUSH/CHENEY ‘08
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 2:21 am
If this could happen, I would take bets that their total votes would be 26%.
Better to run Brownback/Romney ‘08! Now there is a real winner! Pass it along.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:34 amHe serves as a role model for millions and will be an inspiration for future generations.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
Yes, master, future generations of pudgy little pasty white chickens in cages who lay on demand, and don’t have the strength to even escape…
June 24th, 2007 at 2:34 amOh, and in post #81 I do not mean that Cheney and Bush are our Muslim masters or anything like that. I mean that the blood from all of the slain Islamo-fascists has splattered back on to the faces of our two brave and honorable leaders.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:35 amImagine that “our†president is now known as “The Shrub†Think about that. These criminals need to go NOW
GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY! GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:35 amGENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY! GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY!
GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY! GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY!
GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY! GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY!
GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY! GENERAL STRIKE NOW FOR LIBERTY!
If this could happen, I would take bets that their total votes would be 26%.
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007 @ 2:34 am
Votes?
Why would they need votes?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:36 am#78 Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:28 am
I have a BUSH/CHENEY ‘04 billboard in my neighborhood,
(still up! lazy ass campaign workers, anyways…)
Fascist hopefulls maybe?
What town is this, that is so “with it?”
June 24th, 2007 at 2:37 am#86 Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 2:36 am
Votes?
Why would they need votes?
If not, then why advertise the fraud.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:39 amIt symbolizes the blood of Islamo-fascists!!!!!
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
Not in my neighborhood, pretty boy,
my people are warriors, and follow a warriors creed,
not the greed of the machine…..
we have suffered great losses because of these two mens greed,
these two greedy men, one clever, the other pliant……
and to preemptively put it, I’m an old white guy.
Just so you know who you are up against.
Son.
(Geeez, the kids these days…….
June 24th, 2007 at 2:41 amIf not, then why advertise the fraud.
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007 @ 2:39 am
You know… the semblance of democracy.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:43 amFor all those who were either not born yet or to young to understand Watergate and the crimes of President Nixon you now have your chance. Cheney was a student of Nixon and has used the same criminal laws today. Yes there were laws put in place to make sure the White House could never commit the same crimes. But Americans were to busy voting on American Idol to pay attention. So for 6 year Cheney has been following the Nixon play book and breaking every law set in the Constitution. He will continue because Karl Rove knows Americans will do nothing but lip service. As for the Congress and Senate the media will follow the Bush policy by saying they didn’t do their job. Knowing well that the Republicans still have alot of control and Bush will veto what is legal. Americans have no problem with an Attorney General lying under oath not once not twice but all the time. Great example of our leader of the Department of Justice. Let’s face it we have no Justice System in the United States. Even the Bush appointed Supreme Court Justices are criminals and following the orders of the GOP. The American people have no representation as Bush is the DECIDER OR DICTATOR.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:45 amComment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:41 am
Pretty boy???
That’s a first.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:46 amComment by Jackie — June 24, 2007 @ 2:45 am
Exactly.
See my post #72
June 24th, 2007 at 2:48 amWhat town is this, that is so “with it?â€
Comment by Merlin
Without giving to much away,
it’s a town filled with mystery,
and intrigue, and
awww, what the hell, it’s
“Oh, and in post #81 I do not mean that Cheney and Bush are our Muslim masters or anything like that. I mean that the blood from all of the slain Islamo-fascists has splattered back on to the faces of our two brave and honorable leaders.”
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
Whaaaaathe?
You learned good at camp, Primo:
June 24th, 2007 at 2:50 amsquirm,
slither,
slide,
squeal
skate,
sooth
and slip……..
Hehe… yeah, I’m real “stealthy”
June 24th, 2007 at 2:53 amProphetic even.
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:28 am
We can only hope!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:55 am#91 Comment by Jackie — June 24, 2007 @ 2:45 am
Your points are taken, Jackie. However, you are way too pesimistic. As our history shows, time and again, when it looked the darkest, we brought order to pending disaster. For my view look at post #54. We came closer this time than ever before and in my view we have stopped the juggernaut in its tracks.
We still feel the “Volkswagen Syndrome” as the motor continues to sputter after the engine has been turned off. Don’t mistake the positive progress as having no value. This administration is on its knees and flailing wildly.
Remember
June 24th, 2007 at 2:58 amTo paraphrase:
The mills of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small.
Comment by Jackie — June 24, 2007
Yes, agreed, in toto,
June 24th, 2007 at 2:59 amwith the exception that:
George W. Bush is not,
nor has ever been, (argueably)
the “decider”.
He has been a pawn and a placeholder all his life.
And a piss-poor one at that!
Pretty boy???
That’s a first.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 2:46 am
Well, we already know that you smell nice. ;-)
June 24th, 2007 at 2:59 amcheney the draft dodger, cheney the war loser, cheney the un-American.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:00 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
I’m an old white guy.
Just so you know who you are up against.
Son.
So how old are you, old man? Think you are older than the vaunted Merlin?
June 24th, 2007 at 3:04 amHehe… yeah, I’m real “stealthyâ€
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
What you will come to realize, is this:
It is the habitual stealthy-ness,
June 24th, 2007 at 3:05 amand hiding,
and deceit,
that will draw the attention you so desperately seek,
yet will expose,
the fraud
that you speak.
I’m an old white guy.
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 2:41 am
Are you older than what Jake claims to be?
June 24th, 2007 at 3:06 amWell, we already know that you smell nice. ;-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 2:59 am
Shhh… Jane, not on the Cheney thread… you’ll embarass me.
Hehe… she’s jus’ kiddin’ guys… I really smell like pure evil, death, and destruction!!!
It comes from my RNC Camp training.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:06 amSo how old are you, old man? Think you are older than the vaunted Merlin?
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007
No way, man,
June 24th, 2007 at 3:07 amI’m just a lowly apprentice…….;)
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 3:05 am
You just haven’t seen my stealthitude skillz yet… hehehe
June 24th, 2007 at 3:08 amAre you older than what Jake claims to be?
Oh, lord no, I’m not a geezer or anything….
June 24th, 2007 at 3:10 amor,
well,
at least I don’t believe I’m getting old,
or anything like that,
you know…….
You just haven’t seen my stealthitude skillz yet… hehehe
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
You would never see mine.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:13 amSuch self importance from a sociopathic, lying, treasonous son of a bitch.
Ah, the Hague awaits!
June 24th, 2007 at 3:14 amComment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 3:10 am
C’mon, give us a number — I’ll go first: I’m 51, are you older than I am?
——————
Hehe… she’s jus’ kiddin’ guys… I really smell like pure evil, death, and destruction!!!
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 3:06 am
Er, right, HE REALLY STINKS, horrible, REALLY fearsome smell, makes you wanna puke when you smell him! (Is that better?)
June 24th, 2007 at 3:16 amComment by MsJoanne — June 24, 2007 @ 3:14 am
Hey, you’re still up, too, huh? I’ve got to stop this, I’m too old to lose so much sleep! ;-)
June 24th, 2007 at 3:17 amSo how old are you, old man? Think you are older than the vaunted Merlin?
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007
No way, man,
I’m just a lowly apprentice…….;)
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 3:07 am
Darn! I thought I could win another cup of coffee here. Must admit, you would make a great apprentice. You do great here. I enjoy reading your thoughts.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:19 amEr, right, HE REALLY STINKS, horrible, REALLY fearsome smell, makes you wanna puke when you smell him! (Is that better?)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 3:16 am
Well, I was kinda hopin’ you’d say I smelled like Cheney… but I guess this is close enough.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:20 am#110 Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 3:16 am
C’mon, give us a number — I’ll go first: I’m 51, are you older than I am?
I love communicating with really young people. Ah could yo Daddy. Numbers? OK. Of course this is not news. I’m 71.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:24 amWell, I was kinda hopin’ you’d say I smelled like Cheney… but I guess this is close enough.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 3:20 am
Actually, I was originally going to say that you smelled like Fred Thompson!
June 24th, 2007 at 3:24 amI’m 71.
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007 @ 3:24 am
My compliments, sir! You don’t sound a day older than 30 :-) I hope that I’m still blogging (or whatever it will be) 20 years from now!
Now, c’mon, heyzeus, your turn.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:30 amActually, I was originally going to say that you smelled like Fred Thompson!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 3:24 am
Ahh… that would be a dream…
June 24th, 2007 at 3:32 amLATE BREAKING TROLL NEWS
Researchers at the Troll Study Institute report that they have found the genetic defect behind the bizarre things they say.
It was noted that their feet smell and their noses run.
The conclusion seems obvious now.
They are built upside down.
FILM AT 11
June 24th, 2007 at 3:36 amAhh… that would be a dream…
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 3:32 am
Yeah, a really, really bad dream. :-O
Heyzeus, I have to go to bed, are you going to ‘fess up! Or are you too shy? Are you blushing like The Republic of Stupidity?
June 24th, 2007 at 3:36 amHere, I’ll even say my age: 24.
Heyzeus?
And Merlin, I thought that you were supposed to be, like, 800 years old… you know, being a wizard and all.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:38 amAnd Merlin, I thought that you were supposed to be, like, 800 years old… you know, being a wizard and all.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 24, 2007 @ 3:38 am
Ah, you forget that Merlin’s age goes backward! I will soon be 70. This way I get to enjoy my upcoming youth with the wisdom of my 800 years!.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:41 amComment by Merlin — June 24, 2007 @ 3:41 am
Heh… oh yeah, maybe I do too and I have the wisdom of millenia in my mind.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:49 amAh, you forget that Merlin’s age goes backward!
Comment by Merlin — June 24, 2007 @ 3:41 am
Nice to see that you know the lore behind your monicker, Merlin. I’m a big fan of Merlin and the Arthurian legend.
I think I scared heyzeus away. :(
And, PIP, 24? Hmmm…I’m not sure whether or not to believe you, most of the time you sound older, sometimes, even, more mature than 24. :D
June 24th, 2007 at 3:49 amThanks Jane, well I’m going to bed, I guess heyzeus is not coming back.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:53 amGoodnight, PIP, goodnight, Merlin!
June 24th, 2007 at 3:55 amWhoa! I gotta come out of lurking and join forces with the old white guy, cuz I’m an old white guy, too. I’m an expat in Italy, but have been following with great interest and horror the fascist swine republicans’ systematic destruction of America. And don’t any troll here try to pull Bill Clinton outa his or her ass. I will FOREVER admire the Big Dog’s famous “Listen to me. I did not have sex with that woman…Ms. Lewinski.” Yes, I’m proud of him for lying, because all the uproar was bullshit from the Republicans. And I won’t forget that sissy Lindsay Graham, then a House member, repeating in his ole country boy accent, “Rule of law! Rule of Law!” during the impeachment, which never shoulda happened.
And I can hardly wait for the MSM talking head talk shows this morning. Hey, how about getting Alberto to come on and give us his legal opinion, and another opportunity to smirk when someone suggests he resign? Or the biggest pig with lipstick smeared all over his snout, the top dog fascist swine cocks*ucker himself, deadeye DICK .
June 24th, 2007 at 5:11 amRepublican rule in America has been like a fascist takeover organized by the Keystone Cops.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:31 amGood morning everybody!
Nothing like a morning shift, some coffee and Think Progresss.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:36 amStealth is among Cheney’s most effective tools.
Stealth, fear, ruthless efficiency–and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope…I’ll come in again.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:25 amAccording to ABCNEWS sources, Israeli and U.S. government officials worked out a deal — and after 71 days, the five Israelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane, and deported back home.
The men all underwent at least two polygraph tests each, the lawyer added. He said one of the Israelis took the test seven times, a very unusual total according to several polygraph experts interviewed by the Forward. All failed their tests.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/Artstudents.htm
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dancing-israelis-on-911.html
What did Ken Lay know and when did he know it?
When Lay was on the stand and under oath, wouldn’t it have been great fun to ask him all about his meetings with George Bush Sr. and Dick Cheney prior to 9/11?
Wouldn’t it be great to ask him if the faux California Energy Crisis which his company manufactured just prior to the 2000 elections was actually a scheme cooked up by he and Poppie Bush to compel Americans to install some oil experts in the White House? But what was to be Lay’s reward? After all, he was GW’s largest contributor and best friend of Poppie Bush. Poppie never planned on Enron going bust, and that’s when things started to fall apart.
Wouldn’t if be nice to learn the details of how Lay and Cheney were divvying up the oil fields in Iraq on a big map, even before 9/11?
Wouldn’t it be enlightening to hear that Lay knew for a fact that 9/11 was going to happen as the pretext for the war plan which he clearly had knowledge of prior to 9/11?
Why would you sit around countless energy planning meetings dividing up the oil fields of Iraq in advance of 9/11 unless there were a plan in place to make it possible?
Such a plan would by necessity be a war plan, and this war plan was actually in place prior to 9/11.
Surely any good war plan requires at its core a starting point, a trigger if you will that provides a good “cover story” to implement it. Clearly you can’t just go around invading countries without a good reason…you need to be attacked first, then retaliate.
Was 9/11 simply part of the war plan?
Why wouldn’t it have been?
You can’t hit the “GO” button without a pretext.
9/11 was the pretext for the invasion of the Middle East – all by design.
CAN YOU SAY COVERUP?
June 24th, 2007 at 7:35 amAll of a sudden the main stream media is beginning to look at Darth Cheney and his unprecedented power in this White House. Bloggers and the internet, as usual, have been far out ahead of them, while they have been sniffing up on candidates, looking for missing white women, and being concerned about “bear attacks”.
But all of a sudden, the main stream media has caught up with the “news”. Cheney considers himself a government unto himself. That is treason!!! Now BOTH Bush and Cheney have declared they are not regulated by the rules that govern the executive branch, so we have NO executive!!!!! THIS is a true and real Constitutional crisis. This is an attack on OUR entire system of government.
The only remedy, the only recourse is the one that Nancy Pelosi, for whatever reason, took off the table. It is passed time to put impeacment back on the table and get these dangerous traitors out of OUR government.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:42 amAll of a sudden the main stream media is beginning to look at Darth Cheney and his unprecedented power in this White House.
Exactly…why now, why so late?
And I do think it is necessary to take over Cheney’s dossiers by force before the inevitable shredding has been completed.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:47 amConspiracy to Defraud the United States
923 18 U.S.C. § 371
Hass, 216 U.S. at 479-480. In Hammerschmidt, Chief Justice Taft, defined “defraud†as follows:
To conspire to defraud the United States means primarily to cheat the Government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful governmental functions by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest. It is not necessary that the Government shall be subjected to property or pecuniary loss by the fraud, but only that its legitimate official action and purpose shall be defeated by misrepresentation, chicane or the overreaching of those charged with carrying out the governmental intention.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00923.htm
June 24th, 2007 at 7:51 amrozen is a moron
she thinks Cheney thinks he’s being some kind of patriot?
Cheney knows with no doubt he is stealing from this country, he knows with no doubt he is dismantling our Constitution
he is a man who HATES government and his purpose is dismantling EVERY successful program that exists
he wants robber baron economics, he DOE NOT want a constitutional government with THREE branches of government and THERE IS NO WAY ON THE PLANET HE THINKS HE IS A PATRIOT
June 24th, 2007 at 7:52 amhttp://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/cheney.halliburton/
Given what we know about VP Cheney’s direct financial ties to Haliburton, isn’t it clear that he has committed a fraud against the United States for the purpose of illegal financial gain, in accordance with the following statute? Couldn’t the same be said of any US official who knowingly made false statements to advance the cause of war, while owning shares of companies that stood to gain substantially from that war? Cheney was acting specifically on behalf of the Contractor, Haliburton, to ensure no-bid contracts were awarded, based on knowingly fraudulent information generated by his own Office Of Special Plans. It might also be construed that any official who had a relationship to the Carlyle Group was also lying on their behalf – for their own financial benefit.
Section 1031. Major fraud against the United States
(a) Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, any scheme or artifice with the intent -
(1) to defraud the United States; or
(2) to obtain money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, in any procurement of property or services as a prime contractor with the United States or as a subcontractor or supplier on a contract in which there is a prime contract with the United States, if the value of the contract, subcontract, or any constituent part thereof, for such property or services is $1,000,000 or more shall, subject to the applicability of subsection (c) of this section, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(1) the gross loss to the Government or the gross gain to a defendant is $500,000 or greater; or
(2) the offense involves a conscious or reckless risk of serious personal injury.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/47/sections/section_1031.html
The financial links between those who lied, and those who benefitted as a direct result of the lies (primarily in the oil and military industries) are clear. The evidence that the President’s speech knowingly included a lie about the Niger Yellow Cake is proveable in a court of law under oath.
That the Vice President knew for a fact that the claim was based on a forgery in advance of the President’s speech is a given. That he instructed others to ensure that the sentence made it into the speech is also a given. What did the Vice President know, and when did he know it?
Everytime the Vice President knowingly lied to the American People to advance the cause of war, he committed a crime against the United States which both directly harmed other US citizens and directly enriched himself.
Indict Dick Cheney for Fraud.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030711-7.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-4.html
The outing of Valarie Plame falls into precisely the same category, as it was specifically designed to ensure that the lead up to war continued apace…
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031001-6.html
June 24th, 2007 at 7:52 amCorporate fascists took over our government six and a half years ago.
They’re not leaving. They will make sure the next Prez is a corporate fascist too.
They’ve taken over the Dems too, that’s why the Iraq occupation is still going on and impeachment is off the table.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:54 amMineta testifies as to the VP’s actions on 9/11:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y
Cheney was in the Washington bunker, while Bush was at the school. He was in command. Scholars for 911 Truth point out
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
that Secretary of Transportation, Mineta Confirm this. Others point out he was also conducting numerous military drills that day that did confuse land workers.
Mineta’s testimony is devastating,” observed James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., McKnight Professor at the University of Minnesota. Fetzer is the founder and co-chair of the scholars’ society, which recently joined with Judicial Watch in calling for release of documents, films and videos, and physical evidence withheld from the public by the administration. “It pulls the plug on the Commission’s contention there was no advance warning that the Pentagon was going to be hit.”
According to Secretary Mineta’s testimony, which is in the public domain, when he (Mineta) arrived at an underground bunker at the White House (known as the Presidential Emergency Operations Center), the Vice President was in charge. “During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon”, he stated, “there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, ‘The plane is 50 miles out.’ ‘The plane is 30 miles out.’
“And when it got down to, ‘The plane is 10 miles out,’” Mineta continued, “the young man also said to the Vice President, ‘Do the orders still stand?’ And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, ‘Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?’” One way to construe these remarks could be that the orders were to shoot down the plane.
The scholars suggest that that is an implausible interpretation. The Pentagon, they observe, may be the most heavily defended building in the world. If the orders had been to “shoot it down,” then no doubt it would have been shot down. Moreover, there would have been no apparent reason for the young man to have expressed concern over whether or not “the orders still stand.” Shooting it down, under the circumstances, would have been the thing to do.
“The only reasonable interpretation of the orders,” Fetzer observed, “is that the incoming aircraft should not be shot down, which would have been an obvious source of anxiety for an aide. Since it contradicts the official story about the Pentagon,” he added, “it had to be suppressed and was not even included in The 9/11 Commission Report.” And other scholars, including Professor David Ray Griffin of Claremont Graduate University, have drawn the same conclusion.
references…
http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/norad-faa-response/cheney-stand-do
http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Heari
June 24th, 2007 at 7:56 amConspiracy to Defraud the United States
So will the Attorney General sign an order to put Cheney under arrest?
June 24th, 2007 at 7:56 amBEFORE 9/11 – CHENEY CREATED A PLAN TO SELL OFF IRAQ’S OIL.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm
BUT HOW COULD THAT BE – WHY PLAN SOMETHING YOU DON’T CONTROL?
STOP.
THINK.
REMEMBER THE ENERGY MEETINGS WITH KEN LAY AND OTHERS?
WHAT WAS THE BIG SECRET THEY WERE KEEPING?
THE INVASION OF IRAQ WAS THE BIG SECRET THEY WERE KEEPING.
THE OTHER SECRET WAS THE PRETEXT.
THE PRETEXT FOR THE INVASION OF IRAQ.
THE PRETEXT.
THE PRETEXT.
9/11.
CHENEY DID IT.
PNAC members became deeply entrenched in many powerful and strategic positions once George Bush was installed as President. Clearly, the plan could now become a reality. But, how?
Here’s how: The PNAC plan openly called for a “transformation” of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination. That was more easily said than done. The American people would have to go along with the idea, and that was a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Read the next line very, very carefully:
“The process of transformation,” the plan said, “is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event–like a new Pearl Harbor.”
Let that sink in: like a new Pearl Harbor…like a new Pearl Harbor….like 9/11. Is there any question that 9/11 constituted a catastrophic and catalyzing event very similar to Pearl Harbor? Is there any question that the PNAC plan for war against Iraq became feasible only because of 9/11? Is there any question at all that PNAC got its new Pearl Harbor exactly at the right moment in history?
They effectively pulled off a coup d’Etat, by passing Congressional scrutiny, installing the military industrial fascist government they have today. Allied with the globalist elite they are destroying America and the Constitution.
ROLL THEM BACK!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:03 amDavid Rockefeller admits that the media is under his control:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jIKqktiVBvY
And reveals his partnership with Dick Cheney:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pGiRkJqZU9s
who admits to lying to his constituents in order to get elected.
TRAITORS
June 24th, 2007 at 8:07 amGood Morning, TP buddies! It looks like a it was an interesting, productive posting night for all of you. From an external perspective this morning after having read all of your great comments, it’s clear that our little Tundra tried almost immediately to hijack the conversation with a post in the #2 spot regarding the pregnant woman they found yesterday. Good job at stifling their obvious attempt at hijack. It appears that Tundra is coming at us from a different angle than the obviously aggressive Jake et al. It’s not a concern troll MO either. Perhaps Tundra is a “nicey troll” who appears to acknowledge their attempt to hijack as though it is an excusable error and asks your forgiveness for doing precisely what they’ve set out to do; and that is, to hijack the thread. My gut tells me that Tundra is a real troll who is a “mole troll” so forewarned is forearmed.
As for the post #136, everyone needs to do the research (some of the url’s provided by Ace as well as www911truth.org for Cheney’s “timeline” in the war games which were (coincidentally??) occurring on 9/10 and 9/11 which had to do with hijacked commercial aircraft running into large buildings. It was the first time that a “civilian” was placed in charge of NORAD (Rumsfeld). Cheney’s actions during that morning are pretty suspect. And, as time moves forward and whistleblowers continue to provide their eyewitness accounts, the truth shall be made known. In the meantime, (put on your tin foil hats as some of the dinosaurs on the thread say) and do your own investigative digging. Most of the pieces are there and can be found and more are being presented daily.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:11 amhttp://www.911truth.org
June 24th, 2007 at 8:12 amCHENEY AND CHERTOFF PARTNER WITH THE DOD TO CREATE A PRISON LABOR / CONCENTRATION CAMP IN CHENEY’S HOME STATE OF WYOMING.
WELCOME TO “SWIFT LUCK GREENS”:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297
Note that in the DHS “Swift Luck Greens†photos, the mine facility is known as the “East Annexâ€
This implies that the main facility is further west of this location.
I believe the “main†facility is the one referred to as the “Maximum Security†facility.
Rag Shoshone coal mine closed Thursday. August 30, 2000.
In 2000 – this was the production rate for the mine:
Tons of Coal Mined in 2000: 1,209,795
Number of Employees in 2000: 67
CYPRUS SHOSHONE COAL CORPORATION
HANNA WY 82327
Latitude: 41.92 Longitude: -106.521944
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program
Wikipedia:
Civilian Inmate Labor Program -
The Civilian Inmate Labor Program is a program of the United States Army provided by Army Regulation 210-35[1]. The regulation, first drafted in 1997 and went under a “rapid act revision” in January 2005, provides policy for the creation of labor programs and prison camps on Army installations. The labor would be provided by persons under the supervision of the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
Prison camps
The regulation also sets forth policy for the creation of prison camps on Army installations. These would be used to keep inmates of the labor programs resident on the installations.
In January 2006, Kellogg, Brown and Root reported that they had received a contract from the Department of Homeland Security to expand ICE DRO facilities “in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs.”[3] A February news article comments that the “new programs” mentioned could include the Civilian Inmate Labour Program.[4] ICE has “joint federal facilities” with the Federal Bureau of Prisons.[5]
External links
1. ^ AR 210-35 Civilian Inmate Labor Program (PDF) (2004). Retrieved on 2006-03-09.
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936
Read this guy’s take:
http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo
June 24th, 2007 at 8:15 amI believe that eventually we will all conclude that what they knew, when they knew it, what they did about it – the three basic questions for this administration – and, regardless of how complicit “we” were in all of it – the “official story” is full of bunk and bullcrap, that’s almost a foregone conclusion. Kucinich is doing his own investigation with his committee right now because he “smells a rat” in the official timeline and official story. It’s coming and americans will be able to handle whatever the truth actually is. Isn’t it true that over the past weeks and months so much disgusting information has come out regarding the Bush Cabal’s criminal behavior (the war for one in which more were killed now than 911!) that it will not only become a possibility in people’s minds but will become a probability in time to come.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:16 amWhat once was a most unsavory thought or conjecture is now becoming a plausibility, a possibility, and perhaps soon a reality? That’s how the spiritual law of Truth Revelation works. Eventually, as everyone processes each and every wrongdoing along the path, they become prepared to accept and acknowledge the truth…in as ugly and unsatisfying form as it may take.
It’s like the spouse who suspects that their partner is less than honest with them….first they pick up the scent of perfume on their clothing….then they find the smudge of lipstick…..then they overhear a conversation….suddenly, all of the “clues” along the way prepare them to accept the final conclusion. This is precisely what’s occurring right now and more people are concluding, on their own, that something doesn’t add up in the official story. It’s that nagging sensation in the pit of their gut each morning….bringing the inconistencies to the fore constantly….chronic internal cogitation on these inconsistencies….and then the loss of credibility of those who may be responsible. It’s part/parcel of the “discovery process” for every human being. More people are becoming attuned and have discovered via research that things simply do not add up.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:21 amCHENEY’S PARTNERSHIP WITH ROCKEFELLER / ISRAEL, INC. LEADS TO “TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS” FOR THE VP:
It turns out that Israel has had a potential wiretap on every phone in America for years, along with the ability to monitor and record who any person is calling, anywhere in America; information of great value even if one does not listen to the calls themselves. Amdocs, Inc., the company which subcontracts billing and directory services for phone companies around the world, including 90 percent of American phone companies, is owned by Israeli interests. Yet another company, Comverse Infosys, is suspected of having built a “back door†into the equipment permanently installed into the phone system that allows instant eavesdropping by law enforcement agencies on any phone in America. This includes yours.
http://100777.com/node/354
KOBI ALEXANDER RAN THE WIRETAP OPERATION FOR CHENEY.
A COMPANY THAT ALEXANDER ACQUIRED IN THE AFTERMATH OF 9/11, ODIGO, WAS THE PAGING COMPANY THAT FOREWARNED ISRAELI NATIONALS NOT GO GO NEAR THE WTC TWO HOURS PRIOR TO IT BEING STRUCK.
NOW CHENEY IS PROTECTING ALEXANDER, WHO IS WANTED FOR SECURITIES FRAUD IN THE US. IS KOBI IN THE WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM, DICK?
June 24th, 2007 at 8:23 amKnowing Cheney’s penchant for unchecked power and control, I do not find any of this new information surprising – I expect it because I’ve seen enough to convince me that this is who he is. It’s disgusting and appalling but is it not something probable? It’s totally within his character to do this. The question is: Is it criminal? And, if so, then let’s get beyond the discovery stage and bring on that divorce! The shame of it all is that we don’t have representation willing to take on the difficult stuff. The People do not have a voice today in their government.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:24 amHey Ace! Odigo, eh? Now that’s a new wrinkle in the 911 theories. Surely there were plenty of people who knew the attack was imminent – among those stockholders in United, etc. but this is a new one even for me. I’ll dig it up!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:25 amSome new questions surfacing are as recent as the 60 minutes segment on the “no fly” list which still (this month’s issue) contains 14 of the 19 supposed hijackers on it? Hmmmm….the one interviewed was visibly shaken by the question surrounding the “why” on that one. I think we all know the “why” and that is because they’ve been spotted in other countries.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:27 amGHW BUSH, CHENEY & KEN LAY.
CO-CONSPIRATORS IN A COUP, WITH A FAKE ENERGY SHORTAGE AS THE PRETEXT:
A couple of weeks before Lay met with Schwarzenegger in May 2001, the PBS news program “Frontline†interviewed Vice President Dick Cheney, whom Lay met with privately a month earlier. Cheney was asked by a correspondent from Frontline whether energy companies were acting like a cartel and using manipulative tactics to cause electricity prices to spike in California.
“No,†Cheney said during the Frontline interview. “The problem you had in California was caused by a combination of things–an unwise regulatory scheme, because they didn’t really deregulate. Now they’re trapped from unwise regulatory schemes, plus not having addressed the supply side of the issue. They’ve obviously created major problems for themselves and bankrupted PG&E in the process.â€
A month before the Frontline interview and Bush’s meeting with Davis, Cheney, who chairs Bush’s energy task force, met with Lay to discuss Bush’s National Energy Policy. Lay, whose company was the largest contributor to Bush’s presidential campaign, made some recommendations that would financially benefit his company. Lay gave Cheney a memo that included eight recommendations for the energy policy. Of the eight, seven were included in the final draft. The energy policy was released in late May 2001, after Schwarzenegger, Riordan and Milken met with Lay and after the meeting between Bush and Davis and Cheney’s Frontline interview.
A week before the meeting, Davis signed legislation to create a state power authority that would buy, operate and build power plants in lieu of out-of-state energy companies, such as Enron, that the governor alleged was ripping off the state.
For Enron’s Lay, the timing of the meeting was crucial. His company was just five months away from disintegrating and he was doing everything in his power to keep his company afloat and the profits rolling in.
It wasn’t until Enron collapsed in October 2001 and evidence of the company’s manipulative trading tactics emerged that FERC began to take a look at the company’s role in California’s electricity crisis. Since then, memos written by former Enron traders were uncovered, with colorful names like “Fat Boy†and “Death Star,†that contained the blueprint for ripping off California.
Enron’s top trader on the West Coast, Timothy Belden, the mastermind behind the scheme, pleaded guilty in December to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and has agreed to cooperate with federal investigators who are still trying to get to the bottom of the crisis.
California is still demanding that FERC order the energy companies to refund the state $8.9 billion for overcharging the state for electricity during its yearlong energy crisis. But FERC says California is due no more than $1.2 billion in refunds because the state still owes the energy companies $1.8 billion in unpaid power bills.
Davis, who refused to cave in to the demands of companies like Enron even while Democrats, Republicans and the public criticized him, was right all along. Maybe Californians ought to cut Davis some slack.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0817-07.htm
GOT CONSPIRACY?
June 24th, 2007 at 8:27 amand the actual footage of Rummy’s interview when he mistakenly (or not so mistakenly) referred to the Pentagon attack as “the missile that hit…er….the plane that hit…etc.” Now that one was very obvious.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:28 amHe’s crazy. No doubt about it.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:28 amVeritas: Read everything written by Christopher Bollyn: He’s so hot on their trail, Chertoff had him beaten up by an ICE team in his own driveway:
Israeli 9/11 Crook Flees with $57 Million to Israel
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=91721
Jacob “Kobi” Alexander, the Israeli founder of Comverse Technology, one of the leading Mossad companies involved in the terror attacks has fled justice in the United States and escaped to Israel with at least $57 million of ill-gotten gains.
Kobi Alexander should be arrested and interrogated about his knowledge of the events of 9/11. His company acquired the other Mossad firm, Odigo, shortly after it was revealed that Odigo employees had been forewarned of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
This is the tip of the Israeli criminal mafia who is behind the terror attacks on 9/11.
Here is a relevant section from one of my articles about Mossad’s involvement in 9/11, which I posted on RMN on April 7, 2005:
At least two Israel-based employees of Odigo received warnings of an imminent attack in New York City more than two hours before the first plane hit the WTC. Odigo had its U.S. headquarters two blocks from the WTC. The Odigo employees, however, did not pass the warning on to the authorities in New York City, a move that could have saved thousands of lives.
Odigo has a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain demographics, such as Israeli nationality.
Two weeks after 9/11, Alex Diamandis, Odigo’s vice president, reportedly said, “It was possible that the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message
Odigo, like many Israeli software companies, is based and has its Research and Development (R&D) center in Herzliya, Israel, the small town north of Tel Aviv, which happens to be where Mossad’s headquarters are located.
BOLLYN – 9/11 Investigative Journalist Harassed and Beaten by Undercover Cops
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=91920
READ ALL OF IT
June 24th, 2007 at 8:32 amThe Bush Administration’s struggle to keep secret the workings of Cheney’s Energy Task Force has been ongoing since early in the President’s tenure.
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/8.html
In the spring of 2001 the severity of the California energy emergency had inspired demands for government action, and Enron had a problem.
Enron CEO Kenneth Lay knew he needed high-level help. So he arranged to meet with a man who had headed a corporation with extensive business ties to Enron and who had been a prime recipient of Enron’s political largesse. Vice President Dick Cheney cleared his calendar for an April 17 private meeting with Lay regarding what aides described as “energy policy matters” and “the energy crisis in California.” At the meeting Lay handed Cheney a memo that read in part: “The administration should reject any attempt to re-regulate wholesale power markets by adopting price caps….”
The day after he met with Lay, Cheney gave a rare phone interview to the Los Angeles Times that had one recurrent theme: Price caps were out of the question. Dismissing the strategy as “short-term political relief for the politicians,” Cheney bluntly declared, “I don’t see that as a possibility.”
Indeed, so close was the Cheney-Enron relationship that it is entirely reasonable to ask whether ethical and legal lines were crossed. That possibility offers the most realistic explanation for Cheney’s refusal to disclose details of his Enron contacts to Congress.
Cheney’s refusal to cooperate with investigators–which presidential historian Stanley Kutler refers to as part of a broad “assault on the legal and Constitutional order” by the Bush Administration–forms the most powerful argument for the appointment of a special counsel.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020415/nichols
The BBC was told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary, that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July, 2001 that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan.
Say what?
In 1996, the Department of Energy was issuing reports on the desirability of a pipeline through Afghanistan, and in 1998, Unocal testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that this pipeline was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean.
Wouldn’t if be nice to learn the details of how Lay and Cheney were divvying up the oil fields in Iraq on a big map, even before 9/11?
Wouldn’t it be enlightening to hear that Lay knew for a fact that 9/11 was going to happen as the pretext for the war plan which he clearly had knowledge of prior to 9/11?
Why would you sit around countless energy planning meetings dividing up the oil fields of Iraq in advance of 9/11 unless there were a plan in place to make it possible?
Such a plan would by necessity be a war plan, and this war plan was actually in place prior to 9/11.
Surely any good war plan requires at its core a starting point, a trigger if you will that provides a good “cover story” to implement it. Clearly you can’t just go around invading countries without a good reason…you need to be attacked first, then retaliate.
Was 9/11 simply part of the war plan?
Why wouldn’t it have been?
You can’t hit the “GO” button without a pretext.
9/11 was the pretext for the invasion of the Middle East – all by design.
So the implementation of such a plan would require BY NECESSITY the implementation of a FALSE FLAG ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES of such magnitude that it would rival the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor thereby invoking the Pavlovian response which resulted.
If you were looking for anyone to pull off the perfect False Flag Operation on your behalf, there is only one place you would look…Israel’s Mossad.
The so-called Energy Crisis in California was entirely fabricated of whole cloth by none other than Ken Lay’s Enron – in concert with Poppie Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and even Alan Greenspan.
The only thing more outrageous than these theories is the belief that the timing of 9/11 was a coincidence. It would be a stretch (even for a COINCIDENCE THEORIST), to contend that all of these matters are not directly related.
If you believe the media, John P. O’Neill was simply another innocent victim killed in the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. But you don’t need much imagination to suspect something deeper was at work.
“Arnold’s Enron Secret”
June 24th, 2007 at 8:40 amhttp://www.alternet.org/story/16902/
And I ask again… can the President fire the Vice President?
June 24th, 2007 at 8:56 amAll this makes Bush look like a patsy.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:57 amGreat stuff Ace (and veritas)…I’m still kinda borderline with conspiracy and coincidence but starting to lean towards conspiracy.
Where my question lies this morning is the Patriot Act and the stealthiness behind it . The why is obvious…but the who and when is my concern. Any details?
June 24th, 2007 at 9:01 amGHW Bush (41) is running the entire operation on behalf of Rockefeller, the Crown and the rest of the globalists. Conspiracies don’t get any bigger than this one – which is why hardly anyone can make sense of it all. How many times did Cheney meet with Greenspan before and after 9/11 to ensure that the markets and US Dollar remained “under full control?”
GW is of course in on it to, but they’ve put him in a position of plausible deniability – and promoted the image of Bush as the aloof, out of touch moron. 41 is taking care of his boy, and Rumsfeld and Cheney were/are just being good soldiers. Clearly Cheney is pushing it to the extreme, and knows he’ll be taking one for the team unless he can pull off the next 9/11 – designed to compel an attack against Iran – and to coincide with a staged Pandemic here at home – to keep people in their homes under martial law.
Wild Cornered Animal Stage is upon us.
Problem is – every Senator and Congressman is being blackmailed to comply. They all know that 9/11 was an inside job – and actually believe they are pursuing a course that is best for the American people – or did when this was all conceived.
They’re ALL co-conspirators now.
All of the “investor class” is trapped in the (totally manipulated) stock market and trapped in over-inflated real estate debt – leveraged to the hilt in credit card debt.
The strategies that the globalists have employed to pacify the American population are no different than those employed against third world countries. Loan them more money than they can ever repay, then control them.
Notice how the bankruptcy laws were oh-so-conveniently changed to the benefit of the Credit Card BANKSTERS before the real estate bubble reached its apex?
Greenspan planned and ran the entire operation – encouraging everyone to get out of their fixed rate mortgages and roll into ARMs – borrowing against the equity in their homes to keep the inflation cycle rolling.
Follow it to its logical conclusion…
The end game is depression, and government control.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:13 amcopy and save this thread – before it is “disappeared.”
June 24th, 2007 at 9:27 am#
I have a way off topic question.
When it comes to Progressives: (Note I am not placing blame or accusing anyone of anything).
If a pregnant woman is murdered: Is it right or proper to charge the person with 2 counts of murder?
I am asking this question out of a simple search for knowlege and understanding.
Comment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
Another off topic question… if a man impregnates a woman on Monday & kills her on Tuesday do you think that constitutes 2 counts of murder? Similarly, is the pill a form of murder? Or the use of RU486? If a woman slips & falls while pregnant and loses the baby is that accidental homicide? If she smokes & as a result loses the baby is that negligence leading to homicide? Maybe it’s not as black & white and you’re hoping to portray it.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:31 am1. A 767 jet is X inches wide from wing tip to wing tip.
2. The hole in the wall of the Pentagon is Y inches across.
3. Photographs of the Pentagon taken on 9-11 show that Y
June 24th, 2007 at 9:42 am1. A 767 jet is X inches from wing ip to wing tip.
2. The hole in the wall of the Pentagon is Y inches across.
3. Photos of the Pentagon taken on 9-11 show that Y is LESS THAN X.
4. Spacial relationships that we learned in kintergarten tells us that the portion of the jet (wings, engines, and tail) outisde of Y inches would break off an be outside the hole.
5. Photos of the Pentagon taken on 9-11 DO NOT SHOW the portion of the jet (wings, engines, and tail) outside the hole.
6. Therefore we have IRREFUTABLE PROOF that a 767 jet did not hit the Pentagon, because NOBODY has YET come up with a way to phase a jet or any other solid matter thru a building or any other solid matter.
What is so hard to understand about that?
June 24th, 2007 at 9:48 amIt looks like the trolls want to divert the question from Dictator Cheney and would rather inflame with abortion clap-trap.
You can tell that the Bush Republicans are in desperate need to avoid reality.
-GSD
June 24th, 2007 at 9:55 amTundra,
June 24th, 2007 at 9:56 amMy answer to your question is No!
Can a not-born person have a Social Security Number? Can a Non-born
be a productive part of society?
Are conspiracy theories “on topic”?
June 24th, 2007 at 9:57 amImpeach the bastard. Write your Congressman and Senators. There’s still plenty of time to remove his fat @ss.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:00 amfKlem Kiddlehopper:
Tell that to Scott Peterson out in California Prison CONVICTED of killing his not-born, non Social Security card holding, unproductive son.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:01 amFast forward to 2009: I wonder how all of these Republicans will feel when Vice President Hillary Clinton picks up Dick Cheney’s argument that she is not part of the Executive branch and is not subject to any oversight…..
June 24th, 2007 at 10:03 amMen: Stop with the abortion arguments already. Mind your own uterus.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:05 am#
Are conspiracy theories “on topic�
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 9:57 am
A Cheney-led conspiracy IS the topic:
“Washington Post Profile Reveals Stealthy Cheney Spies On White House Staffers”
It sucks when the conspiracy theorists are proven correct, doesn’t it?
No more”tin-foil-hat” accusations out of you.
You’re all out of ammo…time to jump ship with the rest of the rats.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:16 amTell that to Scott Peterson out in California Prison CONVICTED of killing his not-born, non Social Security card holding, unproductive son.
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 10:01 am
Is THAT “on topic?”
June 24th, 2007 at 10:17 amTundra and fKlem Kiddlehopper brought it up before I did.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:19 amMen: Stop with the abortion arguments already. Mind your own uterus.
Comment by loretta — June 24, 2007 @ 10:05 am
LOL. Good one, loretta. Yes, last night Tundra tried to derail the thread and we successfully stopped him doing it here. He even apologized and agreed to discuss that subject elsewhere another time. I see that some trolls are trying to pick up where Tundra agreed to leave off. I guess they’re not reading all of the posts.
Now if, among his other “high crimes and misdemeanors” for which he is clearly guilty, Cheney also knowingly killed a pregnant woman days away from giving birth (and, like the global warming skeptics like to argue, there’s no evidence he hasn’t), then it’s appropriate to discuss here.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:20 amTell that to Scott Peterson out in California Prison CONVICTED of killing his not-born, non Social Security card holding, unproductive son.
Yeah, I didn’t get that myself. Have your cake and eat it too, I suppose.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:20 amJake:
You look foolish proclaiming that I was Off Topic while you discuss abortion, on a Cheney conspiracy thread.
If they were off topic, and I was on topic, then what in the hell was your point discussing abortion – and Scott Peterson?
Don’t bother answering. The question answers itself.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:22 amI wonder if Clinton was in on the 911 Conspiracy, when he stated that Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction.
You can hardly plan this sort of attack in 9 months, despite what the conspiracy nutcases believe. So if you’re right, Clinton was in on it!
June 24th, 2007 at 10:28 amCheney failed in Iraq.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:29 amCheney failed to catch Osama and Zawahiri.
Cheney is protected by Congress.
America has spoken about Cheney/Bush/Gonzales,
yet they are protected by Congress.
#
I wonder if Clinton was in on the 911 Conspiracy, when he stated that Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction.
You can hardly plan this sort of attack in 9 months, despite what the conspiracy nutcases believe. So if you’re right, Clinton was in on it!
Comment by m12 — June 24, 2007 @ 10:28 am
Welcome to reality. You are absolutely correct.
Now what?
What will you do with the knowledge that the Clinton’s and Bush’s are in fact, partners in crime? That would imply that we American Patriots are in fact all victims of a massive fraud – and it would also imply that you can drop the whole”yeah, but look what Clinton did” defense.
They are co-conspirators, and its time for Americans to come together as a people, and to take away their power to divide us by party.
The party is over. READ & LEARN. Then change your behavior accordingly.
http://www.yourchristianpresident.com/DaddyBush.htm
June 24th, 2007 at 10:33 amace:
I didn’t “proclaim” anything. I asked a question.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:34 amThe US Constitution and our Republic means nothing to Cheney because he is above the law.
Cheney is worse than Stalin !
June 24th, 2007 at 10:35 amM12 – I see you and your fellow neocons are still trying to tie Iraq to 911. Typical. Cheney is the puppet master and you little neocons do his bidding!!
June 24th, 2007 at 10:39 amkm4:
No one is above the law, not even Cheney. However, does the fact that a sitting Vice President cannot be indicted (until after he’s impeached by the House and convicted in the Senate) mean he is “above” the law to you? I would argue he is subject to the law as proscribed.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:40 am#
ace:
I didn’t “proclaim†anything. I asked a question.
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 10:34 am
What was the intent of the question? What were you hoping to imply? You were encouraging others to restrict free speech about conspiracy theories pertaining to Cheney. There is no other explanation.
“Intent:
Trolls can be existing members of a community that rarely post and often contribute no useful information to the thread, but instead make argumentative posts in an attempt to discredit another person, concentrating almost exclusively on facts irrelevant to the point of the conversation, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
June 24th, 2007 at 10:41 amNo one is above the law, not even Cheney. However, does the fact that a sitting Vice President cannot be indicted (until after he’s impeached by the House and convicted in the Senate) mean he is “above†the law to you? I would argue he is subject to the law as proscribed.
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 10:40 am
The “OFFICE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT” resides within the “Executive Branch.” Cheney himself has declared that his office in NOT within the Executive Branch.
He is therefore subject to arrest and conviction – just like any other criminal – if we take him at his word.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:44 am#177
Does that mean you think the Clintons are also TRAITORS, and that you will absolutely, unequivocally not vote for Hillary next election?
June 24th, 2007 at 10:45 amNot at all, ace. My “intent” was to get an answer to my question. As for the Office of Vice President, looking at the Constitutional duties, an argument could indeed be made it is within the Legislative branch (see, e.g. “President of the Senate”). Lastly, I’ve always stated if the conspiracy theorists are proven right about 9/11, then Bush should be impeached, removed from office, and then tried for war crimes. That would be the PROPER order, since a sitting President cannot legally be indicted either. Next question?
June 24th, 2007 at 10:49 amHere’s a multiple choice question:
Which country did the following occur:
______ is in the throes of one of its most ferocious crackdowns on dissent in years, with the government focusing on labor leaders, universities, the press, women’s rights advocates,…
A. Nazi Germany
B. America 2007 (by the Fox “News” right wing fringe types)
C. Iran
D. All the above
And the answer is Iran, even though if you said “all the above” you’d be right also.
Notice how it doesn’t matter which country or culture, far right lunatics always engage in the same violent, extremist behavior. They always attack the Labor Unions, the “Librul” Universities and teacher unions, the “Librul” media and “Feminazis”.
=======================
Iran Cracks Down on Dissent, Parading Examples
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Iran is in the throes of one of its most ferocious crackdowns on dissent in years, with the government focusing on labor leaders, universities, the press, women’s rights advocates, a former nuclear negotiator and Iranian-Americans, three of whom have been in prison for more than six weeks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html?_r=3&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print
June 24th, 2007 at 10:52 amre#185 Jake
“I’ve always stated if the conspiracy theorists are proven right about 9/11, then Bush should be impeached, removed from office, and then tried for war crimes.”
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 10:49 am
1. A 767 jet is X inches from wing ip to wing tip.
2. The hole in the wall of the Pentagon is Y inches across.
3. Photos of the Pentagon taken on 9-11 show that Y is LESS THAN X.
4. Spacial relationships that we learned in kintergarten tells us that the portion of the jet (wings, engines, and tail) outisde of Y inches would break off an be outside the hole.
5. Photos of the Pentagon taken on 9-11 DO NOT SHOW the portion of the jet (wings, engines, and tail) outside the hole.
6. Therefore we have IRREFUTABLE PROOF that a 767 jet did not hit the Pentagon, because NOBODY has YET come up with a way to phase a jet or any other solid matter thru a building or any other solid matter.
There is your PROOF, now let’s hear you call for Bush to be impeached
removed from office, and then tried for war crimes!
Or were you just LYING?
June 24th, 2007 at 10:54 amComment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
What does the law say, tinker bell?
June 24th, 2007 at 10:56 amFor the record, the planes we all saw with our own eyes crash into the WTC did not leave “wing tip to wing tip” size holes either. Jews did die in the attacks. WTC 7 was not brought down via controlled demolitions. Etc., etc. People like unbelieveable have already answered all of your 9/11 conspiracy theories.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:00 amLastly, I’ve always stated if the conspiracy theorists are proven right about 9/11, then Bush should be impeached, removed from office, and then tried for war crimes. That would be the PROPER order, since a sitting President cannot legally be indicted either. Next question?
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 10:49 am
As you know, your question is itself a red herring – a non-starter.
“Proven right?”
HOW?
The conspiracy theorists cannot be proven correct unless and until the Justice Department is repopulated with American Patriots with no political agenda. Now you can see why Alberto Gonzales and Michael Chertoff will NEVER lose their jobs – no matter what. Such is the nature of a PROTECTION RACKET.
This would also require that the mainstream media be exposed for its complicity in the conspiracy, and the laws that govern the media, and campaign finance, and lobbying, be rewritten to the benefit of the American People.
Got RICO?
How can you bring a racketeering case when the Justice Department is in the employ of the perps?
Obviously you know I’m right, and are desperate to imply you care about “we the people.”
Half-truths are not the same as THE TRUTH:
“Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.â€
Michael Rivera
June 24th, 2007 at 11:01 amWe saw the second jet hit live on TV. What did we see?
When you view any video of the plane striking the second WTC Tower, isn’t it astounding how huge the fireball is that results? How much jet fuel was that…really?
Remember the big Boeing Tanker lease scandal that arose just prior to 9/11?
Dov Zakheim, called for “some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor” being necessary to foster the frame of mind needed for the American public to support a war in the Middle East that would politically and culturally reshape the region. A respected and established voice in the intelligence community, his views were eagerly accepted, and Dov went from his position at Systems Planning Corporation to become the Comptroller of the Pentagon in May 2001. Perhaps not so coincidentally, it was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.
SPC, according to their official website, specializes in many areas of defense technology production and manufacture, including a system developed by their Radar Physics Group called the Flight Termination System, or FTS. This is a system used to destroy target drones (craft that would be fired on by test aircraft or weaponry) in the event of malfunction or “misses”. This highly sophisticated war-game technology allows the control of several ‘drones’ from a remote location, on varying frequencies, and has a range of several hundred miles. This technology can be used on many different types of aircraft, including large passenger jets.
According to the SPC website, a recent customer at that time was Eglin AFB, located in Florida. Eglin is very near another Air Force base in Florida-MacDill AFB, where Dov Zakheim contracted to send at least 32 Boeing 767 aircraft, as part of the Boeing /Pentagon tanker lease agreement.
The Boeing lease deal involved the replacement of the aging KC-135 tanker fleet with these smaller, more efficient Boeing 767s that were to be leased by Dov Zakheim’s group.
Dov Zakheim was the Pentagon’s comptroller and CFO during 9/11. Over $2 trillion is unaccounted for during his tenure. He was (is?) Corporate VP at System Planning Corporation, a major player in the “Homeland Security” industry. One of the products that SysPlan sells is the Command Transmitter System, a remote control system for planes, boats, missiles and other vehicles. It’s highly customable and configurable to interface with an almost limitless number of vehicle types.
The CTS is a tunable UHF FM transmitter designed for ground use in controlling guided missiles, pilotless aircraft and pilotless boats.
Many takeoff and lending tests were performed using this system on a commercial size Boeing aircraft under the supervision of Raytheon in the days prior to 9/11.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:05 amAre you kidding me, ace?! Those planes that hit the WTC were fully fueled for a CROSS-COUNTRY flight. Have you seen this site:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/4213805.html
If you won’t believe me about WTC 7, or the scientists, just ask “unbelievable” some time.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:11 amSo, the truth is out. BUSH IS A PUPPET of some dark cabal lead by Cheney.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:14 am#
For the record, the planes we all saw with our own eyes crash into the WTC did not leave “wing tip to wing tip†size holes either. Jews did die in the attacks. WTC 7 was not brought down via controlled demolitions. Etc., etc. People like unbelieveable have already answered all of your 9/11 conspiracy theories.
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 11:00 am
False:
The holes in the twin towers were in fact wing tip to wing tip.
As for “Jews” in the WTC, why mention that?
How many Israeli Nationals would a reasonable person expect to be inside the worlds largest financial center on a given work day?
Anybody?
Here’s the answer:
Contrary to early reports (including a statement by George Bush) of large numbers of Israelis being killed in the 9-11 attacks, only two Israelis died, both passengers on the airplanes. No Israelis working in or near the World Trade Towers died. The foreign press has long rumored that Israelis were given an advance warning not to go to work on 9-11, and in the case of Odigo, an Israeli company with offices located near the World Trade Towers, the existence of a warning message sent before the four aircraft had even left the ground is an established fact. That someone in Israel knew of the attacks ahead of time is beyond question.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lavon.html
June 24th, 2007 at 11:17 amHave you seen the Popular Mechanics info, ace?
June 24th, 2007 at 11:21 amBecause the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn’t respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine’s “senior researcher,” directly.
Chertoff said he was the “senior researcher” of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, “I don’t know.” Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist – the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin’s mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, “Yes, of course, he is a cousin.”
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66176
June 24th, 2007 at 11:25 amSo, you have seen the info, or you just want to impugn Ben (as you accused me of doing to you)?
June 24th, 2007 at 11:30 am#
So, you have seen the info, or you just want to impugn Ben (as you accused me of doing to you)?
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 11:30 am
Impugn Ben Chertoff, the cousin of Michael Chertoff, for writing the definitive debunking story which is solely relied upon by agents like you to support the Government’s own 9/11 Conspiracy Theory?
I’m not impugning Ben Chertoff, I’m impugning you, and others like you – who would have us believe that this article is unbiased and factual.
What are the odds that the definitive debunking piece relied upon by our government would have been overseen by Chertoff’s cousin?
A-hundred-million to one?
You efforts to steer people away from the truth are actually having the opposite effect. What else do you have? I’ve got all day. Every time you post, an opportunity to share the truth is presented.
Next?
June 24th, 2007 at 11:37 amSo let me see if I’ve got this straight. Cheney claims hes not part of the executive branch, yet he was so determined to personally oversee everything the executive branch did, that he spyed on them?
Mr Cheney is a contradiction to himself.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:43 amIts clearly Cheney is the real commander here, and the real criminal.
Bush is apparently little more than a talking head.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:44 amBush is apparently little more than a talking head.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
…and he can’t even get that straight!
June 24th, 2007 at 11:57 amAddington should share a cell beside Libby.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/dicks_new_scooter.html
June 24th, 2007 at 12:06 pmOk, it look like we are getting close to having enough evidence to impeach him. But, that presents a problem. Do we really want to impeach Chaney without Bush? If we do, then Bush will be able to appoint another right wing RepubliCON as Vice President and then when we impeach Bush, that newly appointed VP will become President. Does anyone know if Congress needs to approve the appointment of a new VP?
I’m all for impeaching Chaney, but we need to impeach both Chaney and Bush at the same time or consecutively so that the Republics don’t retain the power of the government they have pretty much destroyed.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:07 pmre# 193 Jake
I have never heard “unbelievable” or anybody else, explain how one piece of solid matter could phase thru another piece of solid matter!
If you or her or anybody else can “explain” how it is done, please do so, and I will take your explanation and submit to the patent office and become the richest man in the world and I also will win the Nobel prize.
The jet engines on a 767 weigh around 6000 pounds and would have had to either crash thru the Pentagon wall or else broken off on the outside, there is no other way without resorting to the use of “magic”!
So we are to believe “magic” is the official explanation for the engines, wings, and tail, not to be on the outside of the hole?
June 24th, 2007 at 12:09 pmAddington should share a cell beside Libby.
Comment by Stephen Pitt — June 24, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
Some would argue he should share a noose. But I don’t believe in violence as a means of resolving disputes. Let them both spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars thinking about whether or not it was worth it.
Maybe Scooter would have time to write a story about a sex-crazed bear rampaging through a prison.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:10 pmGive this dick the Chemical Ali treatment.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:10 pmI’m all for impeaching Chaney, but we need to impeach both Chaney and Bush at the same time or consecutively so that the Republics don’t retain the power of the government they have pretty much destroyed.
Comment by katie — June 24, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
I agree with consecutive impeachments. I’m not sure the founders envisioned a mechanism for simultaneous impeachments. And if Speaker Pelosi’s fear is that it would appear opportunistic of her to persue impeaching both of them because that would make her president (nothing wrong with that), then she should answer, “Okay, then. I’ll could step aside and let the next in line become president – Sen Robert Byrd. Or do you still want me to go through with this?”
I think the people will say, “No, Nancy. We want you to do what you have to do and impeach them both even if it means that you become president.”
June 24th, 2007 at 12:15 pm“Gregor, beefeater appears to be one of those ignorant people who feel that the president and vice president are above the law….”
But this only applies if the President is a Democrat. Lest we not forget how many Clinton situations that Ken Starr investigated, all for naught.
I have often asked the neoCONS on this board and others the following question (and as yet have not received an answer):
“If the tables were turned and it was a Democratic President and Vice President doing the deeds they have done, would you still think it is all OK?”
I guess that the neoCONS are missing the point that if they allow a precedent to be set that the President and Vice President are above the law, that precedent will apply to a Democratic President and Vice President also. Although I believe that a Democratic President would never do the things that Bush and Company have done, it’s still a possibility, a frightening possibility.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:15 pmPlease people, don’t even act like you’re surprised anymore.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:18 pm#208 “But this only applies if the President is a Democrat. ”
Sheesh, I haven’t had enough coffee. This should read:
“But this only applies if the President is a Republic”
June 24th, 2007 at 12:19 pmWell, I see Jake the Joke has been successful in distracting posters from the real story of Cheney the Puppetmaster. Bravo, Jake! You finally found your nutty counterpart to debate with.
Honestly, the crimes of inaction on 9/11 were so great that we don’t need to worry about ‘conspiracies’. We know this White House cared nothing about investigating bin Laden or alQaeda in spite of evidence that showed them plotting an attack. And Rice’s claim that they couldn’t begin to guess what would be the target, HAHAHA, well, they did try to blow up the WTC in 1993, so I’d have put my money on that structure and all of Washington, DC.
What is important is that this White House is a nest of vipers. It operates not unlike Stalin’s Kremlin. Not only are these guys wiretapping the Dems and the war protesters, they’re spying on each other. It’s all the worst of those books on Office Politics and Working for Jerks. Memos are sidetracked, misinformation is given, credit goes to the weasel, and pet projects get greenlighted even when they’re counterproductive. This is EVIL.
And what does Cheney have to show for all his sleight of hand? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Afghanistan is a disaster. Iraq is a disaster. The West Bank, Gaza, and Lebanon are disaster zones. Major Generals are comparing the Pentagon to the Mafia. This is the hottest year on record so far. China & India continue to grow. Latin America continues to drift to the Left. Europe hates America; Africa hates America; the East hates America. Well, actually any civilized person –including Americans– hates this Cheney-style America.
The GOP presidential nominee hopefuls are all white male dwarves. LOSERS. And the GOP is heading to a corruption record not see in American courts since the Reconstruction Era. The scrubbed face, evangelical keeners who came to Washington in 1994 with the Newt have all been seduced as only naive hicks can be. They’ve wallowed in the mud, gorged at the trough, ordered hookers as you would pizza, and then used bribed and kickbacks to get reelected. They’ve been a new Elmer Gantry generation of hypocrites. And it’s time to send them all packing.
Cheney will probably end up on trial in 2009, if Bush doesn’t pardon him at the last minute. And I will not be displeased to see him die in prison. I suspect half the White House staff will be charged with something. And it will be a good thing. The Reagan staff got away with too much and they returned with Dubya and did it all again BIG TIME. It’s time the did Time –BIG TIME.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:35 pmThank you, all you treasonous religious nuts who voted for Bush.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:40 pmawesome, david,
June 24th, 2007 at 12:41 pmthank you.
Great comment section even if the trolls outed themselves so completely. This week should be the time to see some backbone from our new congress.
June 24th, 2007 at 12:47 pmACE
June 24th, 2007 at 12:58 pmThank you for all the information and links you (and Veritas) have provided. It seems more and more obvious, as time goes on, that we have been totally manipulated. My early suspicions about 9/11 have become more and more, certainties.
I can understand why many people refuse to accept the truth…it really is hard to believe that a group of people could be so cold, callous, calculating and down right criminal. It shakes your beliefs about our government to the very core. It is a scary proposition, and if the other stuff is true about the “detention centers” being built around the country and their purpose (700 or more being built by KBR, a division of Halliburton), and a second false flag attack…then you non-believers out there get ready to be rolled over. Again.
Cheney has no reason in the world to be concerned. Harry and Nancy will protect him. After all, their actions are dictated by the principle of WWBOS (what would Bill O’Leilly say).
June 24th, 2007 at 1:10 pmdaily kos has a good piece on Raul Emanuel’s strategy for defunding the VP office.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:14 pmFunky P:
Thanks for taking the time to read it all.
If everyone in the country would take their citizenship obligation seriously, and read just the evidence in this thread, the entire scheme would be brought to a screeching halt.
How incensed would the widows of the first-responders of 9/11 be to learn that Rudy was in on it from the outset, and had the unmitigated gall to stand before all of them on a cruise ship – comforting them in the aftermath?
There is NO Osama Bin Laden.
Get your head all the way around that fact.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:16 pmMethinks, when you’re hiding things to this degree – you have something to hide.
– from the law that is.
What happens to a regular american when they break the law. Swat teams, arrest, jail and inability to pay for high-priced lawyers.
– anyone know what “the rule of law” means. (qu)
June 24th, 2007 at 1:21 pmMSNBC is also running the Washington Post article – and last night on Fox News of all places, these terse comments were made in a reply to Bill Kristol – who was attempting to defend dick Cheney: (There’s video of the interview at the link too!)
Are we finally seeing the MSM taking-up the actual issues that are destroying this nation? This series, even before it’s finished, could be the catalyst that will help to remove Cheney from office – and then Bush will be floundering around with no real direction – and hopefully, resign before he’s has to be impeached!
June 24th, 2007 at 1:25 pmJake — Many of the 9/11 Truth organizations have tried to organize a public debate between their experts and those supporting the “official” government-sponsored version of events. Finding anyone willing to publicly debate on behalf of the “official” version of events has apparently been impossible.
In fact, the Thom Hartmann show is attempting to arrange for such a debate, but, I believe, have not been able to find anyone to defend the government’s “official” line (described by David Ray Griffin as, “19 hijackers with box-cutters defeated the most sophisticated defense system in history. Hani Hanjour, who could barely fly a Piper Cub, flew an astounding trajectory to crash Flight 77 into the Pentagon, the most well-protected building on earth. Other hijacker pilots, by flying planes into two buildings of the World Trade Center, cause three of them to collapse straight down, totally, and at virtually free-fall speed…”
You seem very confident about your knowledge of the events that occurred that day and should volunteer your services to defend the “official” story. I’m sure you’ve read David Ray Griffin’s most recent book, which is quite critical of the Popular Mechanics story, and I’m sure could absolutely refute every concern he has raised. How could you possibly pass up the opportunity to make fools of all the non-believers and settle the issue once and for all? If you were to succeed, your name would be known world-wide and you would be financially set for life. So, how about it?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pmRe: Usama bin Laden — Check the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List. bin Laden is included on that list, however, there is absolutely NO SPECIFIC MENTION of his involvement in the events of 9/11. If he were to be captured alive and brought to trial, wouldn’t it be embarrassing to have to admit that he couldn’t be charged for anything connected to 9/11? Perhaps this explains by W, on March 1
June 24th, 2007 at 1:30 pm“I am the Lizard King, I can do anything.”
June 24th, 2007 at 1:38 pmFor those of you who actually believe that Bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks, the FBI Most Wanted web site disagrees with you, and so does Wikipedia:
“The FBI does not yet have ‘hard evidence’ linking him to the 9/11 attacks and so as of 2006 he has only been indicted on the embassy murders; he is officially still only a suspect in ‘other terrorist attacks throughout the world’.”
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
To each of you – go ahead, tell me again about the one where Osama Bin Laden attacked America on 9/11.
Anybody?
Anybody?
Have you actually LOOKED at the person in the fake Bin Laden video?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
The FBI declines to confirm its authenticity.
http://www.physics911.net/kevinbarrett.htm
Top Bin Laden Expert: The Tapes are Fakes
Kevin Barrett
As a PhD in Islamic and Arabic Studies, I hate to say this, but I’ll say it anyway. The events of 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam. The war on terror itself is as phony as the latest “Bin Laden tape.â€
Compare the nose of the actor in the video tape with that of Bin Laden:
http://www.911blimp.net/vid_fakeOsamaVideo.shtml
This is NOT BIN LADEN.
Repeat this information often.
LOOK AT THE VIDEO – IT’S FAKE.
June 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pmRe: Usama bin Laden — Check the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List — bin Laden is included on that list, however, there is absolutely NO SPECIFIC MENTION of his involvement in the events of 9/11. If he were to be captured alive and brought to justice, wouldn’t it be embarrassing to have to admit that he couldn’t be charged for anything connected to 9/11?
Perhaps this might explain the grandaddy of all flip-flops in the world’s history. Please consider the following quotes from W:
Two from September, 2001:
“The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” 9/13/01
“I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,’” — – G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI
This quote from March, 2002:
“…So I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you…And, again, I don’t know where he is. I — I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.” — White House Press Conference, 3/13/02
And this quote from October, 2004:
“I just don’t think I ever said I’m not worried about Osama bin Laden. It’s kind of one of those exaggerations.†— 3rd Presidential Debate, October 13, 2004
Maybe one of the Bush supporters who frequent this website can definitively explain the apparent contradictions. Any takers?
June 24th, 2007 at 1:43 pmAce, you’re exactly right. OBL has NEVER been on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted list. And many of us had seen that tape which was supposedly “evidence” when they first trotted it out and immediately said “That’s not him.”
June 24th, 2007 at 1:44 pmYeah, so back to Cheney, his only allegiance is to his own power and money and he has never believed laws applied to him, even when he was in the private sector. His company happily engaged in lucrative business deals with Saddam Hussein and Iran when it was illegal with no thought to the lawbreaking, much less patriotism.
This is another in an endless of array of exhibits proving that this administration has no respect for the law or the Constitution.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:17 pmI think the people will say, “No, Nancy. We want you to do what you have to do and impeach them both even if it means that you become president.â€
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Could there be a Nixon option? I know most would object to a republican being chosen for Bush’s remaining time in office, but if we did take the Nixon route, anyone chosen would have to be a (politically-neutered) concensus candidate, and acceptable to both dems and reps. Some backbencher, not alligned with the neos?
June 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pmThe administration needed 9/11 to justify war, that’s why they did nothing to stop it!! It was to fund the war contractors, and the oil companies.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:23 pmHey Bush goes to hell if Cheney and Bush were worse than Statlin you libierals would be on the Endangered Species List , you know that ain’t a bad Idea : )
June 24th, 2007 at 2:26 pmCheney’s stock options, which were under water when he took office, are now very valuable. A stunning success!
June 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm“Hey Bush goes to hell if Cheney and Bush were worse than Statlin you libierals would be on the Endangered Species List ”
And so, no doubt, would you. Stalin had a nasty habit of sending “his own” to the gulags…
June 24th, 2007 at 2:46 pmInteresting that Fredo is the same name as Al Pacino’s brother in “The Godfather” films. It seems Cheney has taken over the White House like a mafia guy hijacks a truck. It’s just amazing that no one in congress or the senate has had the spine to take him on therefore showing the american people that we’ve had enough of a man who has brought shame and dishonor to our country.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:50 pmBush was so unqualified when he came to office and remains still such a reckless ‘adolescent’ in the Oval Office that he reminds me of Peter Sellers’ character in “Being There”, the man who was a complete dodo and who everyone believed was a genius. Bush and Cheney aren’t funny though. We’re approaching the 4,000 mark of dead americans in Iraq because of Bush and Cheney. Both of these hoods should be hauled out of the White House in chains and brought into a court of law where finally they would have to abide by our laws.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html
June 24th, 2007 at 2:52 pmBUSH/CHENEY ‘08? don’t be too shocked, they still have 18 months to declare 3 branches of government NULL/VOID and declare DICTATORSHIP
June 24th, 2007 at 2:53 pmDoes anyone think that maybe this story is part of the EXCUSE Bush will use to say it was all not his fault? The way that Reagan got off with the “poor me I have alzheimer’s so I am not responsible for the Iran Contra drug/gun running ring!”
Bush will say, “I didn’t kill all those people and start that war! Cheney did it and I couldn’t tell you or he would kill me! Poor me I was trapped!”
And of course all the Bushies will crown him a hero and give him a 3 week funeral in the future when his day comes.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:54 pmHi you guys. I have a question for Tundra: If a woman is murdered and she has an “unborn” baby who also dies, and then the killer gets charged with double homicide, because, of course, all life is sacred, should the killer get the death penalty? Or what about this: if I work in a lab, and I knock a petri dish off of the table, spilling a little unborn stem cell cluster baby onto the floor, should I be put to death for murdering a sweet, adorable, sacred little unborn cluster of embrionic cells? because all life is sacred right? Just asking Tundra.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:56 pmps someone earlier asked if the president can fire the vice president. He can’t.
June 24th, 2007 at 2:58 pmIsn’t it amazing how effective Ann Coulter was on weak minds?
http://www.light-to-dark.com/ann_coulter_republican.html
June 24th, 2007 at 2:59 pmonly if it’s unborn after that we’ll just ship them off to the next war to be killed patriotically.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:00 pmLaura Rozen writes, “Cheney will go to his grave like others before him thinking he was a great patriot who should not be bound by the laws of this country, or the laws of war.”
I’ll be damned before I let him think he was a great patriot for even a single second. He is a cowardly, greedy criminal who should be exposed before all humanity for the liar and insidious traitor that he is. It is the constitutionally mandated responsibility for Congress to bring impeachment proceedings against this creature. There is simply no excuse not to do so.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:04 pmBush was informed. He knew what was happening, just like Laura, who recently requested that money be sent to hubby for his birthday.
Got lawyers, Mr. Bush?
228: Ever since Lieberman tipped his globalist hand, I’ve felt he would be plugged into the presidency.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/soda_jerk.html
Globalism ala militant corporatism: It’s not what’s for dinner.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:14 pm#238 — Can’t speak for Tundra, however, even those who categorize embryonic stem cell research as murder would probably have difficulty justifying a more serious charge than negligent homicide or manslaughter. The use of a weapon or proof of premeditation would probably be required to justify a charge like first degree murder.
So the question is — If Chimpy is going to be consistent, when he vetoed the last stem cell research bill, why didn’t he call for charging anyone connected with destroying excess, unused human embryos with first degree murder, since premeditation would probably not be difficult to prove under such a circumstance? Can one imagine the spectacle of fertility clinic staff being handcuffed en masse and dragged away to jail? And maybe the “parents” of each destroyed embryo could be charged as accomplices, particularly if they quit paying for long-term refrigerated storage?
June 24th, 2007 at 3:15 pmIt’s the exexutive branch stupid…with a parliamentary democracy pelosi would be prime minister. you don’t need no stinking executive branch, it was a nice experiment, but it breeds tyranny. impeachment is no option, america you have to rid yourselves of the executive branch. the powers of the ubitary executive that bush has commandeered, will not be relinquished by any future president. wake up and start pushing for a parliamentary democracy. a real democracy.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:16 pmCheney’s stock options, which were under water when he took office, are now very valuable. A stunning success!
Comment by Duncan Hare — June 24, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
This was brought up in the 2004 elections and FactCheck.org said they investigated it. I have a couple of concerns about the article (see link below). Though it is several years old, none of the links seem to work. And the “evidence” presented to FactCheck did not come from a third disinterested party, they came from Cheny’s lawyers. Who’s to say that they weren’t complete fabrications intended to address this very issue? Documenst such as those might not need to filed publicly (I could be wrong about that; I imagine stockholders would have a right to know why their dividends weren’t as high as expected.) And I could also see how Cheney might have figured that if they convnced FactCheck they were telling the truth, the whole thing might get dropped.
Personally, I do not believe that Cheney was being honest, but that’s because he hasn’t been honest for a very long time. We’ll know when his tax records are examined after he leaves office. We can find out if the charites to which he promised his excessive profits really got the money.
http://www.factcheck.org/kerry_ad_falsely_accuses_cheney_on_halliburton.html
June 24th, 2007 at 3:16 pm“…he reminds me of Peter Sellers’ character in “Being Thereâ€, the man who was a complete dodo and who everyone believed was a genius.”
Comment by Steamboater
great analogy!
“I like to watch”
June 24th, 2007 at 3:18 pmCheney is a DICK!!
June 24th, 2007 at 3:23 pmI resemble that remark…
June 24th, 2007 at 3:29 pmThis administration has been the biggest threat to our constitutional democracy since our county’s founding. It surpasses even the Nixon damage.
It will all come out (in drab and dribbles)…. eventually, IF we survive the next eighteen months. But don’t expect any admissions or apologies from any of those currently in power who allowed and enabled the neocons. They will go to their graves espousing their ‘patriotism.’ We still have holdovers from Nixon who STILL ‘cover’ for him….. i.e. Pat Buchannan!!
Americans need to be prepared for the next twenty years of undoing the damage of this administration. And forty years of listening to the Bush apologists. Can you imagine an interview with Freddo on Fox News in 2040?!
God save America, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights!
June 24th, 2007 at 3:41 pmThis is a fascinating article – I only hope that it makes the daily newspapers and local tv channels. But, alas, they will be too involved in endless reporting of the tragic murders from the past week, Paris Hilton’s release from jail this coming week, and other important national matters emanating from the world of celebrities.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:47 pmWhat an A-hole. What a complete and utter A-hole. Thanks for destroying the democracy that in some warped way you might have thought you were defending.
June 24th, 2007 at 3:54 pmCould it be that there’s a bit of misdirection going on here? Can the president now claim ‘no responsiblility’ for plans put into place when he failed to get critical advise from key advisors on strategic policies because the vp re-directed them?
Just wondering…
June 24th, 2007 at 4:13 pmThis is getting rather freaky/scary. If you want to see something really frightening, go to Loose Change9/11.com and watch the video, almost an hour long. I know it’s all quite controversial, but lots of questions still haven’t been answered. BUT my question re: old sinister Dick is: what the hell does he need this “man-sized” safe for. I would not put it past him that he had some part in some of that Loose Change stuff.
If he wants to come clean, show us the “classified” stuff – NOW. I think it’s awesome that some archivist, “geeks” are showing more guts in calling Cheney on a lot of this BS than those with much more power, as Maureen Dowd points out in the NYT today…
Hank
June 24th, 2007 at 4:25 pmwhy are we fighting evil “over there” when the greatest evil threat to America’s liberties rests right here in Washington D.C.?
June 24th, 2007 at 4:26 pmThis is news? Cheney and Rumsfeld had made their minds up after the Ford administration that if they ever got the chance to get back into office they would put into place a unitary executive, which is what they have done with the puppet GWB.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:28 pmCheney has had this set up for a long time . Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Hadley, Rove, Hughes, etc… deserved to be tried and hanged for war crimes.
cheney is a coward, pure and simple.
Not man enough to accept accountability for his crimes.
Coward.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:31 pmI’m all for impeaching Chaney, but we need to impeach both Chaney and Bush at the same time or consecutively so that the Republics don’t retain the power of the government they have pretty much destroyed.
So you want a political coup. How nice!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:32 pmDoes anyone remember early in this presidency that Cheney was doing some peculiar things underneath his residence–ie neighbors were complaining that there were some explosions like tnt cleaning out an area to build something? Even the neighbors were joking about the Cheney’s having a secret place for their cocktail parties etc. As evil as I think this guy is, maybe he plans on bombing Iran, with or without Bush’s knowlege, starting the next Big One and then heading underground for protection. There’s a real delusional quality to his behavior and I can see how he thinks this will be a way to break up the middle eastern states, ie Muslim states, and create a utopian world. He’s not alone as suggested by the cabal that wrote up such plans and tried to push them onto two previous presidents, without luck, thank goodness. I feel like we’ve all entered the twilight zone.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pmJust close your ears to these anti-semites who blame 9/11 on Jews. It’s a monotamous rant frequently droned in the arab world and with anyone who blames everything on Jews. They shit green and it’s the Jews fault. Arabs who repeat this blood libel just can’t admit that maybe Muslims commited a heinous act. Even when Jews die in an act of terrorism, as on 9/11, they blame the Jews. At some point , this becomes hilarious.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:24 pmVote in the National Cheney Impeachment Poll:
http://www.usalone.com/cheney_impeachment.php
June 24th, 2007 at 6:21 pmWe have all been suffering under the thumb of the worst Vice President in the history of our country. Cheney has been a plague on our constitution and a plague on the world. Let us all hope this situation can be corrected ASAP as it seems to be getting worse everyday.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:51 pmI think the Bush family (Poppy and Babs, and Jeb, and Prince Bandar, etc.) have decided that their poor W is getting a raw deal: he’s being called the worst president in US history, when in fact it was mean old Dick Cheney who usurped their good, kind, compassionate kid’s presidency. They are beginning to foster space between Cheney and W, and will be working to lay the blame on Cheney for W’s horrible legacy.
Before this is over, we will know ALL about how Dick Cheney misled Bush. Wait and see if Bush pardons Scooter Libby. If he doesn NOT, then the blood will be in the water, and the Bush family will be encouraging Libby to give up all the dirt on Cheney, his cherry-picking intel, his lies to Bush and Powell and others about WMD’s, etc. THis could get VERY nasty.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:58 pmAnd Dennis Kucinich’s resolution (HR333) to impeach Dick Cheney has eight sponsors. Why don’t we have 427 more?
June 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pmMan- is this an Art Bell forum or what.Next you’ll be talking chemtrails.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:12 pmThis sounds like a big sympathetic White wash for the White House,sorry I am not bying the TALKING MONKEY is supose to be in Charge and he relinguishes his authority to a GUTLESS, SPINELESS, COWARD and TRAITOR VP. He endorses the NO CUT and RUN policy. HIS RACIST NAZIS COMMITTEE working in conjunction of the then CONGRESSIONALL KKK, who worked furriously to undermine the average AMERICAN with his if your not with us your against us policy.
I recommend that the present CONGRESS freeze all Personal and FOREIGN assest of the present V. until he cooperates with the CONGRESS, next he be confined and feed as the GITMO prisoners and he be DECLARED a ENEMY of the STATE.
Now if the TALKINGMONKEY follows his VPs’ line the SAME for him, let them know that AMERICA is tired of these CLOWNS.
If the paper is serious it should nOW start publishing all RACIZT NAZIS COMMITTEE (RNC) members names that have STAYED lock stepwith these LOSERS.
All PAY and MEDICAL should be suspended IMMEDIATELY for the entire White HOUSE and its staff.
It is NOW time to IDENTIFY all RNC LOCK STEP MEMBERS start in TEXAS, they are not only LOCK step they will tell their constuents want they want does NOT matter only WHAT they are TOLD to vote.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:14 pmIf a pregnant woman is murdered: Is it right or proper to charge the person with 2 counts of murder?
I am asking this question out of a simple search for knowlege and understanding.
Comment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
Here’s your answer: If a woman is murdered, it is an egregious act. If a pregnant woman is murdered, it is a flagitious act. The flagitious act being prosecuted harder and any punishment harsher.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:34 pmTundra,
Interesting question. What do you think the answer is? Also when answering that one ask yourself this…. If taking human life is wrong, why do we feel Capital Punishment is ok?
>>>>>>
From Tundra:
I have a way off topic question.
When it comes to Progressives: (Note I am not placing blame or accusing anyone of anything).
If a pregnant woman is murdered: Is it right or proper to charge the person with 2 counts of murder?
I am asking this question out of a simple search for knowlege and understanding.
Comment by Tundra — June 24, 2007 @ 12:45 am
June 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pmSo what makes people NOT want to support investigations into impeachment?
What will it take for people to get behind it?
I’m waiting for some answers folks!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:50 pmIf taking human life is wrong, why do we feel Capital Punishment is ok?
Comment by brian — June 24, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
That, Brian, is a question I have never heard pro-lifers successfully answer. They oppose abortion because they consider it murder, but they support the use of capital punishment> And,for far too many of them, the fact (and it IS a fact) that innocent people have been executed is of little concern to them.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:34 pmOne can only hope that Rozen’s prediction occurs sooner rather than later, despite the harm this scumbag has done to the Republic.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:09 pmI have no problem with capital punishment for guilty murderers.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:12 pmMaddgiog: “If a pregnant woman is murdered: Is it right or proper to charge the person with 2 counts of murder?”
I’m for a woman’s right to an abortion and on demand too, however if a woman is close to term and someone kills her then yes, the murderer should be charged with killing 2 people. I think we have to be honest and realistic about this.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:49 pmTJ:
“Cheney and Rumsfeld had made their minds up after the Ford administration that if they ever got the chance to get back into office they would put into place a unitary executive … ”
It’s more like a urinary exectuve. These guys have been pissing on the constitution and the amercian people for years now.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:55 pmWe’re watching “The Green Mile” with Tom Hanks, so I should note that innocent people should NOT be executed. The fact that innocent people are executed does not mean we need to get rid of capital punishment system — it means we need to make sure, as much as humanly possible, that only the guilty are executed:
“Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent — the LORD detests them both.”
June 24th, 2007 at 11:07 pm“Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person’s blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. “
June 24th, 2007 at 11:27 pmKurt Vonnegut said in “In These Times” (http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/632/) on May 10, 2004:
“We are all addicts of fossil fuels in a state of denial, about to face
June 24th, 2007 at 11:57 pmcold turkey. And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our
leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of
what we’re hooked on.”
“Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent — the LORD detests them both.â€
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 11:07 pm
“Whoever sheds the blood of a human, by a human shall that person’s blood be shed; for in his own image God made humankind. “
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
Out of curiosity, can anyone provide a book, chapter and verse for these apparent Bible quotes? I’d like to verify that for myself. Thank you.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:19 amProverbs 17:15 – Et qui iustificat impium et qui condemnat iustum abominabilis est uterque apud Dominum
Genesis 9:6 – Quicumque effuderit humanum sanguinem fundetur sanguis illius ad imaginem quippe Dei factus est homo
June 25th, 2007 at 12:40 amTom Hanks character believes his outliving all of his relatives and friends to be a punishment from God for not stopping an innocent man’s execution. As he puts it, he has had to walk his own Green Mile. “. . . but oh God, sometimes, the Green Mile seems so long.”
June 25th, 2007 at 12:40 amL’etat c’est Dick is his watchword. Dick Cheney has the stench of evil all about him which is why he hides most of the time.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:15 amSeptember 11, 2007 is a fitting time to bring this regime to an end. http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kathlyn__070623_what_are_you_doing_s.htm
June 25th, 2007 at 1:21 pmThere is a method to get the records related to this illegal activity. The tool is 32 CFR 2800, at the link below under “anon”.
OVP does have a legal requirement to retain this data; and show that the purpose of the classification is for national security.
However, in asserting that there are “no records” in response to FOIAs, OVP is implicitly admitting they are not complying with 32 CFR 2800.
Please consider reviewing the link, sharing it with your friends, and seeing the method OVP is hiding evidence of illgeal actdivity: Not following 32 CFR 2800; and preventing auditors from reviewing violations of 32 CFR 2800.
Thank you.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:26 pmWTF?! Seriously, WTF?!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:50 pm