‘Everyone we now fight in Iraq is al Qaida.’
By on Jun 24th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
‘Everyone we now fight in Iraq is al Qaida.’
Glenn Greenwald takes note of the increasing propensity of journalists to follow the administration’s lead in describing all Iraqi fighters as al Qaeda:
That the Bush administration, and specifically its military commanders, decided to begin using the term “Al Qaeda” to designate “anyone and everyeone we fight against or kill in Iraq” is obvious. … But what is even more notable is that the establishment press has followed right along, just as enthusiastically. [...]
What makes this practice all the more disturbing is how quickly and obediently the media has adopted the change in terms consciously issued by the Bush administration and their military officials responsible for presenting the Bush view of the war to the press.
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Kudos to Marie for picking up on this 3 minutes ahead of TP–see her excellent post on the “More Afghans Killed…” thread.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:05 pmthe truth is apparently too complicated for the “news” to get right…
June 24th, 2007 at 4:05 pmjust a matter of time before 72% of us here in the states are al Qaeda
June 24th, 2007 at 4:07 pmIt’s all about framing. By adopting the language the Bush administration insists in using, journalists are forced to ask questions that fit within that framework. It really is Orwellian when you think about it, which I suggest you not do for any length of time (too scary). If the adminstration refuses to address the continued existence of “insurgents”, and insists (however wrongly) that everyone we are fighting is somehow connnected to al Qaeda, they know that they will continue to have the support of their base. They also know that if even their base started to get the idea that we are fighting insurgents who are fighting their own civil war, the American people will no longer support them. They saw the polls. They are doing this deliberately.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:10 pm“just a matter of time before 72% of us here in the states are al Qaeda”
Comment by jaysus
If the Dickster has his way, we 72 % will recieve that classification.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:11 pmWhile you 28% will be completely ignored.
“If you aren’t with us then you are …..al Qaeda”
got it
June 24th, 2007 at 4:12 pmThe obedient press; so good of them to push the Bush propaganda.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:13 pm(sarcasm off)
It’s not just the Bush language. Hill’reh is using the same language in her speeches to justify leaving “some” troops in Iraq. More interestingly, Chris Matthews is already raising Hill’reh’s hand in victory, and speculating where the Obama supporters would go – “Bloomberg?”, Chris asks.
Yes, the MSM does have its template, and it is not so much to help Bush, but to give Hill’reh a means to look left, while moving right.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pmIt’s so convenient for our Dear Leader and his followers to invoke hysteria throughout the land by calling everything “terrorist” or “al Qaeda”.
What will they think of next? Do I hear the footsteps of martial law????
June 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pmjust a matter of time before 72% of us here in the states are al Qaeda
Comment by jaysus — June 24, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Yeah. current polls show that just 58% of us currently are… :D
June 24th, 2007 at 4:15 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — June 24, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Y’all,
This guy is a known moron, racist, facist, liar…Ignore….
June 24th, 2007 at 4:20 pmIt’s all about framing.
I love George Lakoff. It’s so true isn’t it? That they have framed the debate and have been good at it. The fact that we are on to them now has helped, because we can quickly address their nonsense with teh truth.
They saw the polls. They are doing this deliberately.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Most definitely.
But if they lied to us about aluminum tubes, and then lied again about uranium from Niger, and then lied to us yet again about a million other things, then the truth is easy to dissern. We’re NOT fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq, but many of the Iraqis that we trained how to fight.
Will they ever get that violence only begets more violence and never peace? Sheesh!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:20 pmThere is a reason why Bush is assuming dictatorial powers in suspending habeas corpus, posse comitatus, and the Pentagon has asked for special ops to fight domestic terrorism — we are in their crosshairs.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:21 pmJeezuz H Christ! I never, in my wildest nightmares, would have believed that our nation could be overtaken by a cabal of criminals who could destroy democracy and shred our Constitution.
It is happening before our eyes — there must have been Germans in the 1930’s who felt similarly as they watched their already militant government begin to turn their militancy on the German people.
Yes, the MSM does have its template, and it is not so much to help Bush, but to give Hill’reh a means to look left, while moving right.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 24, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Damn, you’re still alive…
June 24th, 2007 at 4:21 pmthere must have been Germans in the 1930’s who felt similarly as they watched their already militant government begin to turn their militancy on the German people.
Comment by Marie — June 24, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
Exactly why they fought so hard to leave real history out of the classrooms – so that they could repeat it themselves.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pmJMH, my only response to you is, not all of us support Senator Clinton as the Democratic nominee.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:25 pm“More interestingly, Chris Matthews is already raising Hill’reh’s hand in victory, and speculating where the Obama supporters would go – “Bloomberg?â€, Chris asks.”
And he’s always so accurate. *snerk*
I seen to remember Chris saying that Powell’s UN presentation meant “case closed,” regarding Saddam’s WMD programs …
June 24th, 2007 at 4:25 pmDamn, you’re still alive…
Comment by unbelievable
Yeah, you would think someone with that simple minded would eventually forget to breathe, eh?
June 24th, 2007 at 4:26 pm“…but to give Hill’reh a means to look left, while moving right.”
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Not a good idea to be moving in one direction, while looking in the other…..
(…and if you meant “a means to appear left”):
Not a good idea to be moving in one direction, while looking like the other….
June 24th, 2007 at 4:28 pmI have been having a problem with a neighbor who lets his dog run free onto my property. I was going to call animal control, but I’ve decided to label him Al Quaeda instead.
In fact, the dogs Al Quaeda too.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:30 pmAlso, I think MADD should deem Drunk Drivers Al Quaeda. And all drug dealers. After all they hurt people, so they’re Al Quaeda too.
And Jon Stewart. He’s always mocking Bush. He’s Al Quaeda too.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:32 pmWhen will the media agree to adopt a single term for bushco? Instead of al Qaida, how about all Asses?
June 24th, 2007 at 4:33 pm“If you aren’t with us then you are …..al Qaedaâ€
got it
Comment by John — June 24, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
I recently came across something that said that the KJV of the Bible translated a quote from Jesus as “He who is not with me is against me.” Other versions of the Bible in existence translated that same phrase as, “He who is not my enemy is my friend.”
There is a world of difference between those two sentiments. Guess which ones the administration and its conservative Christian supporters prefer to use?
June 24th, 2007 at 4:34 pm“Don’t fergit the most dangerous t’rrrrist of all”:
al Goracle
June 24th, 2007 at 4:35 pmSee you guys!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:36 pmBush was right!!!
Iraq and alkaida are closely connected!!!
There is a direct link and we are by occupying Iraq we are merely continuing the world wide War on Terror ™
or as I like to call it WW”Dubya”
Damn, you’re still alive…
Comment by unbelievable — June 24, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
And he’s still NOT the graduate of an “Ivy League” school as he claimed. He went to Stanford which is a campus full of arrogant, but, quite average students!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:36 pmHHHMMMMMMM???? By their logic, maybe Dubya and his handlers, Darth, Wolfie, Addington, Rover and Perle are Al Quaeda too!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:37 pmOnce we got to Baghdad, what would we do?
Who would we put in power? What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shi’a government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Ba’ath Party? Would be fundamentalist Islamic?
I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the responsibility of trying to govern Iraq.
I think it makes no sense at all.
Dick Cheney
June 24th, 2007 at 4:39 pmApril 7, 1991
Yeah, you would think someone with that simple minded would eventually forget to breathe, eh?
Comment by Wayne — June 24, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
Think, hope… something like that :D
June 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pmBARTLEBEE — lol!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pmAnd to think they called Kerry a “flip flopper”.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pmWhat makes this practice all the more disturbing is how quickly and obediently the media has adopted the change in terms consciously issued by the Bush administration and their military officials responsible for presenting the Bush view of the war to the press.
What would you expect? For them to suddenly admit that they were wrong?
“Framing” only works because the press are anxious to duck blame for their roles in this mess. I don’t believe college-educated journalists are so naive as not to recognize these frames for what they are – but their corporate masters pay the piper, and there are career advantages to be had by spouting the corporate line. Media whores, nothing more.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:41 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — June 24, 2007 @ 4:30
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 24, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
Reminds me of one of the last scenes in the movie “In and Out”, where Kevin Kline’s teacher character has been fired because he’s gay. Bob Newhart’s Principal character uses the excuse that gayness is ‘catching’. At the school graduation, suddenly students start (falsely) announcing, “Oh my god, I’m gay, too”, then Kline’s family also starts (falsely) announcing that they must be gay as well. Soon practically everyone at the graduation is saying that they’re gay.
In keeping with that reference, I must be Al Quaeda, too!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:43 pm#13 It is happening before our eyes — there must have been Germans in the 1930’s who felt similarly as they watched their already militant government begin to turn their militancy on the German people.
Comment by Marie
June 24th, 2007 at 4:44 pmMarie, Post well said.
Does seem that history is doomed to repeat itself.
And he’s still NOT the graduate of an “Ivy League†school as he claimed. He went to Stanford which is a campus full of arrogant, but, quite average students!!!
Comment by dixie blood — June 24, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
He’ll never live that one down. Though I’m not sure he ever really went there in the first place.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:44 pmNot a good idea to be moving in one direction, while looking like the other….
Comment by heyzeus — June 24, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Sounds like Juan C’s friend, huh? ;-)
June 24th, 2007 at 4:45 pmLets face it Jane. Bush and the few who still support him, won’t be happy until every man, woman and child in Iraq is either in prison or dead.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:46 pmIn keeping with that reference, I must be Al Quaeda, too!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 24, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Great way to kill the frame – make it into a joke…
June 24th, 2007 at 4:46 pmNext, the White House will classify Cindy Sheehan, IVAW, VVAW, Code Pink, moveon.org, the Democratic Party, and all others opposed to the neoconNazis as Al Quaida.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Jane-
June 24th, 2007 at 4:47 pmwe are the terrorists. The non conforming to “those in the know”. How can we protect freedom but to anihilate opposition, they say? Whatever level headed minds might say they must be rounded up.
Welcome back Uncle Ho!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:48 pmSounds like Juan C’s friend, huh? ;-)
yeah, he might have made a wrong turn….;)
June 24th, 2007 at 4:48 pmthere must have been Germans in the 1930’s who felt similarly as they watched their already militant government begin to turn their militancy on the German people.
Comment by Marie — June 24, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
Whats sad is that we’re apparently as impotent to do anything about it as they were. After 911, Bush took steps to insulate himself and his party from any scrutiny of any kind. The Enabling act for Hitler following the Reichstag fire, and the Patriot act for Bush following 911.
Now he is even exempting himself and Cheney from oversight that he himself signed into law.
We have a shadow government, and a puppet congress. What to do at this point, I haven’t a clue.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:49 pmDoes seem that history is doomed to repeat itself.
Comment by leftcoast
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. —- George Santayana (1863–1952), U.S. philosopher, poet.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:50 pmWelcome back, Uncle Ho!
——
Comment by unbelievable — June 24, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
Thanks, unb!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:51 pm#43 We have a shadow government, and a puppet congress. What to do at this point, I haven’t a clue.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
June 24th, 2007 at 4:54 pmB-
Shaddows don’t last as the light gets brighter. We can never give up. I know we have the worse congress in ages; Dems lied to us. No Pelosi did. Oh, what the hell. They all lie. But the first to letters of light are li.
What is there to debate about news like this? We know what to do but we don’t do anything except endlessly engage in Anti-Bush diatribe. We don’t want to risk anything so as a result the death toll and suffering grow. So the only ones taking a stand are the Bush Team and they are simply capitalizing on our sloth.
When will we organize a coalition of citizens who desire peace and are willing to cease involvement with the Plutocrats?
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
June 24th, 2007 at 4:55 pmSUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
Shaddows don’t last as the light gets brighter.
Comment by leftcoast — June 24, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
Sounds like we need a ‘high noon’.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:56 pmBarlebee, if the dog is shitting all over your property, it’s more likely a Cheney or Bush than Al Qaeda.
June 24th, 2007 at 4:56 pmWe have a shadow government, and a puppet congress. What to do at this point, I haven’t a clue.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — June 24, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Take to the streets…
Setup refuges in local churches for dissenters…
Speak up all the time…not just when it’s polite or convenient…
Speak against all forms of fundamentalist religions…including those in this country…(was Timothy McVeigh a Muslim? I don’t think so!!)…
Make sure that anyone, anywhere who seeks to replace our democracy with a theocracy or “God’s law” is resisted and arrested for treasonist acts against our government!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pmThank you unb & all. Now I have to deal with a backlog of stuff. I may need another vacation to catch up from my vacation.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pmemmanuel goldstein is the enemy, if you will.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:00 pmI’m baaaack.
Comment by Uncle Ho
WB, man =)
June 24th, 2007 at 5:01 pmSUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
Comment by freedomrings
June 24th, 2007 at 5:01 pmI like it. When do you want to call for it?
Uncle Ho- good to hear from you. Let the bloggs begin…
June 24th, 2007 at 5:02 pmHiya Wayne, LC, Zooey, Jane, Upside, dixie, et al. The revolution has come, time to pick up a gun….. Remember… free Huey!
June 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pmUncle Ho, welcome back with a laurel, and hearty handshake
June 24th, 2007 at 5:17 pm> Thank you unb & all. Now I have to deal with a backlog of stuff. I may need
> another vacation to catch up from my vacation.
That’s why I am depressed before, during and especially after a vacation.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:18 pmThank you RU, El T, I really needed to get away from the rat race for a while. Been quite a spell since the last time I had a long getaway like that. Will be doing some day trips as well to relax. All work and no play makes Uncle Ho….. You get the picture.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:27 pmAl-Qaeda = All-CIAduh
June 24th, 2007 at 5:28 pmIt’s against the law for elected officials to propagndize to Americans.
June 24th, 2007 at 5:34 pmIf one believes the Bush administration on this issue, then it must be true that the Bush administration is using the best possible strategy to benefit al Qaeda recruitment. Bush is making Osama so very, very happy. Why does Bush love the “terrorists”?
June 24th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWe are at war with EastAsia. We have always been at war with EastAsia. Long live Oceania. Long live Big Brother!
Peace,
June 24th, 2007 at 5:42 pmWinston Smith
Unca Ho -
Back in the trenches, I see. Welcome back to realitee
June 24th, 2007 at 6:20 pmWell, the press coverage outside of the USA is not quite so obedient. When insurgents are killed in battles, it is customary to denote who said they were “insurgents” before confirmation. The fact that the US has had to admit that many insurgent kills turned out to be innocent civilians is something the US Media seldom corrects.
alQaeda only forms a very small number of the forces fighting in Iraq. The Pentagon has even said so. There are Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia militia groups. There are former members of the Baathist party and Republican Guard fighting. And there are opportunists as well as CIA plants. (I am fairly sure the CIA wants the Shia & Sunni at each other’s throats.)
The use of the term “alQaeda” is to further blur the lines between Afghanistan and Iraq. alQaeda has very little presence in Iraq and what America is really fighting is a very strong nationalist movement. Few Iraqis believe the Americans intend to leave –ever. They point to the enormous imperial palace -er- US embassy and to the four permanent military bases. The UK/US intends to remain, but their UN mandate doesn’t exceed past the end of this year.
I should point out that Britain used the same arguments about chaos and bloodbath to Gandhi when they were saying why he couldn’t be serious about their leaving. But he was serious. And yes, there was chaos and a bloodbath, but, in the end, they were free. And now India is poised to overtake the USA as an economy.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:31 pmOf course, they had to begin using the term AQ (aka: the boogeymen of the US) or how would they explain precisely whom we are killing there? Is the Sunni the enemy?? Or maybe today it’s the Shia?? Besides, they’ve never identified an enemy in Iraq so they had to begin calling everyone we kill a member of AQ. How twisted.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:33 pm#65 Precisely my point and why I listen to foreign press instead of our sycophantic, propagandized, idiotic media.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:33 pmYes, it’s all about “framing” as one earlier poster aptly put it. So now let’s frame King George and his Cabal of Criminals right out of this picture – poof! That reframing is on overtime.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:34 pmLast week the army hooked up with the Sunni milita, were they al Qaeda before or after we allied with them??
June 24th, 2007 at 6:35 pm#67 Veritas
I just returned from Zurich and Prague and could only get BBC and CNN International. What a breath of fresh air to hear how everyone else sees our NeoCon Flying Circus.
Nut the people I talked to are all appalled that we can allow such people to run our country (and in turn, the world). When I say that other countries have had terrible rulers, they tell me that none have been as influential as those in the US.
Makes you stop and think!
June 24th, 2007 at 6:39 pmYou are correct, veritas. One reason for the extensive use of alQaeda is because with Saddam gone, the Baathist party disbanded, and the Republican Guard destroyed, Iraq really has been liberated and the war is over. And yet the Iraqis don’t want the US there. So one either has to fabricate a new enemy or leave. Bush wants to stay and so they talk about Iran sponsoring terror –but that’s not been so easy to sell– and so they push the idea of alQaeda. And yet this really isn’t an alQaeda operation.
In Afghanistan, there is an attempt to call the insurgents “alQaeda”, but this is very difficult when they are clearly the Taliban. But the principle is the same: It’s the same as the Islamist do, say the enemy is Satan and make it clear that you are on God’s side.
Americans, I must confess, seem never to have been very interested in foreign affairs. They somehow can keep dozens of sports teams and their stats together in their heads, but not the names of various countries and their political movements straight in their head. It’s a crying shame. It really isn’t that hard. And maybe one might ask why Muammar Gaddafi suddenly went from America’s Public Enemy #1 to the Bush/Blair poster boy for cooperation. He didn’t really change, you know. His conversion to Good Guy was as bizarre and irrational as Bush Sr declaring Saddam, a longtime ally, as Mr Bad Guy.
Yessir, Winston Smith is right. We seem to be always at war with EastAsia and allied with Eurasia. Unless it’s that we’ve always been at war with Eurasia and EastAsia is our ally. Oh well, never matter. Just toss that doubt down the old memory hole.
All hail the United States of Amnesia.
Forgot. I wanted to say that the foreign press often makes sure to say “a government source says” or “a Pentagon spokesperson reports” or “a White House official claims”. The US media often deletes those phrases and states as direct fact instead of hearsay that something has happened. And then when the retraction is made, they bury it deep in the newspaper or in a quick aside said once.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:50 pmWhat has gone unmentioned is the fact that, as General William Odom and Thomas Ricks of the Washington Post and Congressman Murtha and others have said in the past, apparently to no avail, the terrorists or outside forces in Iraq number a mere 2 per cent of those who are fighting against the coalition forces. The other 98 per cent are the Iraqi resistance fighters who are trying to eject the United States from their soil.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:50 pmthe truth is apparently too complicated for the “news†to get right…
Comment by DenverOasis — June 24, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
I’m pretty sure they’re not interested in getting it right.
June 24th, 2007 at 6:54 pmAnd the Iraqi resistance fighters are the soldiers
June 24th, 2007 at 6:59 pmof the Iraqi Army from Saddams days,
and now the sons of those soldiers are armed as well,
with the very same weapons they took with them when they melted away into the palms as the Americans invaded.
Having set up the perfect storm for a perpetual conflict,
arms dealers from all over the world have set up shop in the deserts of the Middle east.
Upside00, did you really say that other countries have had as terrible rulers as Bush/Cheney? Did you name them?
I find that a very funny statement as the USA is usually so sanctimonious about its pristine democracy and it’s burden as the leader of the Free World. It makes it more than a domestic matter who is president and how good they are. Indeed, they are all too aware how much presidential candidates are hated for being cosmopolitan. (I suppose you didn’t know Kerry spoke beautiful French. He does, but he had to keep it a secret.)
I’d be interested to know what horrible leaders you were thinking of: Caligula, Vlad the Impaler, Ivan the Terrible, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, even good old Saddam???
June 24th, 2007 at 6:59 pmWhile I do agree with your sentiment, I think this won’t work, at this point in time, for practical reasons.
First, there’s the general welfare of the people. Even though we enjoy a comparitively luxurious lifestyle (historically and as to the rest of the world), that lifestyle is financed by personal and national debt. Until the bill comes due, the average american will be more interested in Paris Hilton and Anna Nichole Smith’s daughter than Hillary Clinton or any other politician.
Secondly, there’s the ingrained apathy of the “ME” Generation (actually more of a continuum than s single generation), the members of which have never faced hardship, hunger, or pain. Until the whip comes down, they will continue to be blissfully ignorant (when the whip does com down on them, they’ll falter and be slaughtered or lead like lambs).
A general strike will only work after the BA is successful at destroying the middle class.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:04 pmits the same in Afghanistan
Everybody killed is now taliban
iraq
everyone killed is Al queada
WELL IM NOT BUYING THAT BULLSHIT ALL THE TIME
June 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pmits the same in Afghanistan
Everybody killed is now taliban
iraq
everyone killed is Al queada
WELL IM NOT BUYING THAT BULLSHIT ALL THE TIME
Comment by Tobey Tall — June 24, 2007 @ 7:06 pm
What’s next? Everyone arrested in your (name your hometown) were enemies of the state (pronouced Repugniscums) and secreted away and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Guess what…it’s not next…it’s previous…GW Botch has already declared these powers for himself…
Get ready for the lock down “liberuls” and the christianista sh!t storm that’s about to occur…
The DoJ is stacked to corners and ceiling with christianistas!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 7:14 pmEvery 9.62 days, there is an equivalent amount of casualties in Iraq & Afghanistan as September 11th…………
http://www.prosebeforehos.com/government_employee/06/22/
June 24th, 2007 at 7:19 pmThe DoJ is stacked to corners and ceiling with christianistas!!!
Comment by dixie blood
June 24th, 2007 at 7:19 pmdixie- are you painting all christians with the same brush?
Since Dick Cheney is the real Decider, I’d say his impeachment should be on the table. The Congressional GOP might even go along with it as it won’t actually be the President who’s being attacked. Nobody cares a tuppence who the VP is. I say Off with his head!
June 24th, 2007 at 7:22 pmThis reminds me of the blatant tactic used by the Administration in the runup to the Iraq war. It started out as OBL dead or alive. We’re going to get him, we’re gonna smoke him out, etc.. Then they gradually introduced Saddam’s name into the same sentences with OBL. OBL, Saddam. OBL, Saddam. Like a drumbeat. Next thing you know, they are only saying Saddam and you suddenly realize you haven’t heard the name OBL for a while.. Clever. They did it so often, people never even questioned that Saddam wasn’t even’t a part of 9/11.
They’re doing it again.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:25 pm#82Clever. They did it so often, people never even questioned that Saddam wasn’t even’t a part of 9/11.
They’re doing it again.
Comment by JG
June 24th, 2007 at 7:29 pmWell stated post. We live in the era of soundbite and too many people who gain their news from…well, one source…like a friend. America is no longer an America of people thinking for themselves. Our middle and highschools are dummied down. Our press is dummied down. Our TV is dummied down. We are ripe for takeover.
I like it. When do you want to call for it?
Comment by leftcoast — June 24, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
ASAP but frankly with a few exceptions and you we don’t have even a handful of people willing to “take it to the streetsâ€. People want to stay home and “comment†there days and nights till the inter web is taken down. Then organization will be harder and slower since we will have to rely on social networking (talking). I’m open to ideas as to how to achieve critical mass. I hope that we don’t have to wait till there is even more pain here in America?
All pride is false; when we examine our situation in the light of day we see that we are responsible in making amends no matter how wrong 9-11 was. The oldest adage says that, “Two wrongs never make a right!†We are the people and we are ultimately responsible for anything our government does regardless of what anyone says. We must find out collective faith and realize that everything over the last 6.5 years has been as much of a lie as the 2 decades preceding that point.
We are not looking for a collective medal here. We have to stop our wrath found in Bush from destroying the entire world. The US is the only nation to use full scale nuclear weapons and now the US is the leader of nations who routinely use depleted uranium. Our wrath is developing new weapons; one space based weapon that is expected to be deployed is named “Rods of Godâ€. There lays our pride problem again shown by building weapons in the name of “God†as though we were charged with a mission to purify the Earth.
We are all living a lie and depending on liars to rectify a situation that is a result of faithlessness and our own vanity. Shame is what we should be feeling now but people are determined to stick with apathy and still long for accolades. It has been said that God helps those that help themselves. If you don’t believe in a “Deity†then treat GOD as an acronym.
G = Good O = Orderly D = Direction
We must unite! That is the name of our nation people… UNITED STATES OF AMERICA not the fragmented fools collective!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
June 24th, 2007 at 7:34 pmSUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
dixie- are you painting all christians with the same brush?
Comment by leftcoast — June 24, 2007 @ 7:19 pm
Absolutely NOT!!
I draw a very strong and intolerant position against fundamenatlist of any religion that wish to usurp the free will of any people anywhere. This includes the fundamentalist amoung us that call for replacing our democracy with a christianista theocracy.
Mainstream Christians need to stand up to the threat that reich-wing christianistas pose to this country. If they don’t they will die last. Just like the non-Jews in Nazi Germany. They were executed for just not being perfect…like a Nazi…and now its…uh…uh…”good American christian.”
June 24th, 2007 at 7:36 pmDixie- I understand now. As I am one of those christians who cannot tolerate the hijacking of my faith to create theocracy. My faith is rooted in truth and love. Neither are accomplished by men who claim to have the answer in the process of government.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:43 pm#75 – David
I brought some of those up but what they were saying was that these @ssclowns we have now have tipped the pot over in the Middle East, have taken the low road and given the middle finger to the Geneva Convention, and shredded the ideal (whatever that was) of what the US stood for. You just need to hear what is being said, and by educated and people who feel sorry for US now.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:45 pmWhile I do agree with your sentiment, I think this won’t work, at this point in time, for practical reasons.
A general strike will only work after the BA is successful at destroying the middle class.
Comment by Gaius Gracchus — June 24, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
Gaius,
June 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pmClearly any expression of UNITY by the people of the UNITED States would help to break the fear driven apathetic cycle that we are EXISTING in so that the nation could LIVE again. Your doubt is based on your own sloth. Bush is our Wrath unleashed and so the correct virtue is HOPE. This is our responsibility and none of us deserve statues, medals or awards but instead we must stop supporting a corrupted system and actively dissent before the wrath drops an atomic bomb on us or we drop one on Iran. This must end now and I have faith that we can take good orderly direction. All I can say to you is that you are making assumptions, wasting time and not helping to attract people to taking active responsibility. Do you go through life doubting that you will wake up in the morning?
Dixie- I understand now. As I am one of those christians who cannot tolerate the hijacking of my faith to create theocracy. My faith is rooted in truth and love. Neither are accomplished by men who claim to have the answer in the process of government.
Comment by leftcoast — June 24, 2007 @ 7:43 pm
Please go back to your faith and fix the problem within…we had to do this during the Vietnam war in order to end it…
Fundamentalist must be resisted at every level, in every religion, and in every corner on earth…Tolerance is the only answer…our founding fathers knew this…
Anyone who promotes theocracy or “God’s Law” in this coutry is any enemy of our democracy and must be resisted, arrested and convicted of treason. Nothing less is unacceptalbe to a free democratic people!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:02 pmPlease go back to your faith and fix the problem within…we had to do this during the Vietnam war in order to end it…
Fundamentalist must be resisted at every level, in every religion, and in every corner on earth…Tolerance is the only answer…our founding fathers knew this…
Anyone who promotes theocracy or “God’s Law†in this coutry(SIC) is any enemy of our democracy and must be resisted, arrested and convicted of treason. Nothing less is unacceptalbe(SIC) to a free democratic people!!!
Comment by dixie blood — June 24, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
“Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System.”
John Adams
“We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.”
Samuel Adams
“I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?
“We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
Ben Franklin
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
Thomas Jefferson
“The General orders this day to be religiously observed by the forces under his Command, exactly in manner directed by the Continental Congress. It is therefore strictly enjoined on all officers and soldiers to attend Divine service, And it is expected that all those who go to worship do take their arms, ammunition and accoutrements, and are prepared for immediate action, if called upon.”
June 24th, 2007 at 8:23 pmGeorge Washington
Hillary is our only hope to end thios madness!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:28 pmShe stands up for us the people and will protect our interests!
She cares about us the people.
Vote for Hillary in 2008!
I believe in the divine Law of IVPPITER
June 24th, 2007 at 8:28 pmHillary is our only hope to end thios madness!
Comment by Marco — June 24, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
A Freudian slip perhaps?
Given the current discussion of theocracy!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:30 pmHillary is our savior.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pmIn 18 Months she will make the world right!
Hillary is our savior.
In 18 Months she will make the world right!
Comment by Marco — June 24, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Yes, yes, she will fix the entire world… mwahahahahaha!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:34 pmHillary is our savior.
In 18 Months she will make the world right!
Comment by Marco — June 24, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
So do you believe that Clinton possesses fiscal responsibility, military knowledge, integrity, honesty and a platform based on campaign promises rather than a hunger for lobby money, theatrics and global government?
June 24th, 2007 at 8:39 pmHillary will giveus all good jobs and great salaries.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:40 pmThat’swhat happenedin th 90’s.
Bill Clinton made companies pay good slaries!
Bush is making companies pay nothing!
Hillary will stop outsoursing of factory and IT jobs.
She will create 400,000 jobs a month!
Anyone who promotes theocracy or “God’s Law†in this coutry(SIC) is any enemy of our democracy and must be resisted, arrested and convicted of treason. Nothing less is unacceptalbe(SIC) to a free democratic people!!!
Comment by dixie blood — June 24, 2007 @ 8:02 pm
I can’t wait to see you arrest and then convict George Washington of treason since he would be the first to tell you that GODs law is “the law.”
June 24th, 2007 at 8:43 pmComment by Marco — June 24, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Ah so Ooooooooooo Kkkkkay….
Your just clowning around! I get it now.
June 24th, 2007 at 8:45 pmfreedomrings,
June 24th, 2007 at 8:54 pmThe President controls the economy.
Bush is making economy bad so the companies acn make money.
Hillary will make it good so everyone can get high wages!
I support Hillary since I want more pay!
Ah-Ha!!!!!
I knew there was something suspicious about you Marco, or should I say…
The Joker!!!!
June 24th, 2007 at 8:58 pmThe President controls the economy.
Bush is making economy bad so the companies acn make money.
Hillary will make it good so everyone can get high wages!
I support Hillary since I want more pay!
Comment by Marco — June 24, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
You were serious about all of that? Gee I thought you were just kidding. So, according to you Hillary can pull jobs out of her ass and print you some money… Based on the reality that our economy is headed to a relentless depression and since the US auto industry is pretty much doomed Hillary will have a tough job. I can’t think of too many places left for her to GIVE to CHINA that here husband didn’t already give to China. Hillary accepted cash from the medical industry to go mute on socialized medicine ( though it was a setup to gain respect from the medical lobby from the start). Hillary is FOS! Thank you!
June 24th, 2007 at 9:03 pmSadly, America’s best days are behind it. Harder working / more aggressive cultures in the Islamic world, China, India and Latin America will consume our wealth and displace our culture. I was hoping free trade and immigration might infuse our anemic culture with new vigor, but instead we continue to recoil in agony.
To repeat above, if you want to know what the latest Hill’reh campaign tactics / hopes are, just watch Chris Matthews nightly, as he carries her water while trying to maintain a horse race by chatting up Obama, then Gore, then Bloomberg ….
June 24th, 2007 at 9:07 pmPIP, what’s with the Middle School Latin? Did you pass your exam?? Or are you being held back a year –again???
Upside00, I know all about it. I’m one of those non-Americans. It’s very disturbing that Americans can only see things from their POV.
Personally, I don’t see how Americans could stand by while their government was hijacked. Didn’t they say the people take to the streets in Poland, Georgia, Ukraine, the Philipines, Indonesia, Venezuela, Mexico and Argentina? That’s the way to have democracy work.
Bush is the new Hitler. And he pacifies the American people in the same way by promising riches, cheap beer, cheap cars, TV, and such. And there is only one enemy: al Qaeda aka Satan. And this enemy is easily understood: He hates us because of our Freedoms and our Christ.
Well, it is BS. And it’s BS that’s destroying the world. And the world can do nothing but watch. Much as good Germans could do nothing but watch the greatest country in Europe turn to barbarism.
The Europeans warned America not to attack Iraq. Bush & Blair promised to get a second UN resolution, but they didn’t because they knew the Europeans would veto the idea. They thought it was more humane to let the UN weapons inspectors finish there job and to not bomb. As one Frenchman put it, “Americans think of bombing as something that happnes “over there”, but Europeans think of bombing as something falling down on their heads.”
June 24th, 2007 at 9:09 pmDavid,
You are a little bitch. By the way, “theos” is Greek.
Go Fukc yourself,
PiP
June 24th, 2007 at 9:15 pmPRIMVS INTER PARES,
What’s a Joker?
Isn’t that a card for poker?
Jason M. Hendler,
June 24th, 2007 at 9:21 pmBill and Hillary made the economy good in the 90’s and created good paying jobs for people.
They’ll do it again.
They’ll make companies hire people by raising taxes!
They it once they’ll do it gain.
I bet as soon as Hillary wins, the economy will boom as she’ll force the companies to hire people with good pay or be taxed!
Sadly, America’s best days are behind it. Harder working / more aggressive cultures in the Islamic world, China, India and Latin America will consume our wealth and displace our culture. I was hoping free trade and immigration might infuse our anemic culture with new vigor, but instead we continue to recoil in agony.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — June 24, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
But your phucked up Repugniscum party screwed us all into the ground…that’s why “America’s best days are behind us.” And you are still an ignorant, racist, lying Repugniscum from the “stupid rules everything” state of Florida!!!!
When you regenerate a brain, if you ever had oneto begin with, let the rest of know. Otherwise stop being stupid and racist around here!!!!
Tell me about how dark skinned people can’t rule the continent of Africa again. That was real funny there. I can put up the post/link if you need. But, you know your own racist rhetoric, by heart!!!
Only light skin people can succeed in Africa…isn’t that what you promoted years ago and refuse to apologize for your racist comments even to this day??
June 24th, 2007 at 9:27 pmPIP, or is it ValienttheHater?, I was refering to your lame nom de plume (that’s French). I know ‘theos’ is Greek, and I’m glad to see you finally know how to spell it.
I take it by your foul language I scored a direct hit. You’re an uneducated nasty little weasel. I think troll is too kind for you. You’re the kind of prat who sucks up to teacher while spreading slanders in the schoolyard.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:37 pmDear david,
Nah, I would’ve used that language regardless of what you said, it’s my modus operandi (that’s Latin). As always,
Go Fukc Youself,
PiPpy
June 24th, 2007 at 9:44 pmWell, I suspect you flunked American history in school, Jason. Otherwise you’d know about the contributions to America by the French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, to say nothing of the native Americans.
What wealth would the “harder working cultures” be consuming? Not the wealth you stole from the native Americans, the African American slaves, the Hispanics, the Chinese laborers, the interned Japanese??? Or perhaps the crypto-colonies America set up in Latin America, Africa, and Southeast Asia?
I’m sorry, Jason, but you seem to have not learned that America is a nation of immigrants. It isn’t one thing, it is a kind of United Nations of its own. Indeed, most non-Americans admired America most when it projects that cosmopolitan image, the land of opportunity, a nation of nations. I’d like to recommend a movie: Mississippi Masala. It’s a sweet romantic comedy starring Denzel Washington, but it shows an America I don’t think you know even exists. And a very open and positive vision of the future.
Get over your White Christian America. It doesn’t exist. It’s a racist and bigoted concept. And embrace the whole wide world. Remember: if the experiment that is America was truly successful, America would cease to exist and instead we’d have a United Nations. That’s what you should be pushing for. Not this KKK fantasy.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:47 pmRemember: if the experiment that is America was truly successful, America would cease to exist and instead we’d have a United Nations. That’s what you should be pushing for. Not this KKK fantasy.
Comment by david — June 24, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
David, first, thanks for your many excellent posts. Second, if you think that you’re going to sway JMH, forget about it. Others have tried; even with your eloquence, it’s probably a lost cause.
June 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pmNo one in this Administration has said ‘Everyone we now fight in Iraq is al Qaida.’
June 24th, 2007 at 9:55 pmNo one in this Administration has said ‘Everyone we now fight in Iraq is al Qaida.’
Comment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
It was not a direct quote, it was an observation about what the administration has been saying. Are you unable to differentiate between the two?
June 24th, 2007 at 10:03 pmScariest name + scariest faces = keep you scared.
The only question remaining is how many people are listening?
The names and images were created for this purpose.Don’t be fooled any longer.Really, just don’t.
How much do you think mr.atomic iran gets paid to be scary.
Not joking people.Pay attention.
June 24th, 2007 at 10:17 pmTelling a lie over and over again may get the people to believe it, but it won’t make it true. If freedom is what you really want; the Truth will set you free! God save America from the Satanical neo-idiots!
June 24th, 2007 at 10:56 pmIf anyone NOT on the Ignore List wants to discuss the use of QUOTATION MARKS, please let me know.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:15 pmSome are just noticing this?!?!
It has been the tendency noticable since “Ansar al-Islam” in Iraq (a Kurdish based terrorist group) started being called “Al Quaeda in Iraq”.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:28 pmComment by Jake — June 24, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
Does that mean I’m on your ignore list?
WOO-HOO!
June 24th, 2007 at 11:29 pmwhile the military informs us that Al Qaeda makes up no more than 1% or so of all the warring groups in Iraq, all of a sudden we seem to be fighting that 1% everywhere. those couple thousand guys must be pretty busy
and just because jake lives in southern orange county is no reason to excuse the fact that he can’t think himself out of a paper bag
there is such a thing as personal responsibility and standards of excellence
June 24th, 2007 at 11:32 pm#106, Dixie Blood,
Yes, please, post the link to my comments regarding the current trends in Africa. If not, allow me to paraphrase. North or Saharan Africa is predominantly muslim, and they are pushing south, leading to the civil wars / genocides along the leading edge of that demographic push – Chad, Sudan, Somalia, Ethopia, where occasionally, the US will strike an Al Quieda cell. In Sub-Saharan West Africa, Chinese and Indian immigrants are exploiting the natural resources that their rapidly growing nations need. In the rest of sub-Saharan Africa, it is estimated that 40 million of the few hundred million native Africans have AIDS, with a projection that 100 million will have AIDS in 20 – 40 years. Most nations have short or tall pyramid distributions of population by age, but in Sub-Saharan Africa, there is a startling “necking down” of this typical pyramid above the age of puberty, due to war and disease. In short, native African populations are collapsing, not to mention their societies, and I expect Islamic, Chinese and Indian populations to eventually displace them.
Nothing racist about that projection, these trends can be seen in data and documentaries. You can ignore it, and call me racist, or accept it, and try to change those trends.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:33 pmAnd, if anyone NOT on the Ignore List wants to discuss whether “he can’t think himself out of a paper bag” is a personal attack or not, let me know that too.
June 24th, 2007 at 11:43 pm#109, David,
I understand history just fine. America, at one time, prospered, as did many European powers, through imperialism and exploitation of immigrants, no denial. America also once prospered with slavery. Both those economic models are long gone.
Instead of hardworking immigrants creating wealth in America, opportunities are now going overseas, because socialist policies / behaviours in America force opportunities overseas. China will eventually overtake our manufacturing, and India will (or already has) overtake our software and services industry. Americans think that they can simply legislate (or protest to force) a fix to our problems, when you only have to participate in a wealth generating economy. Unfortunately, captialism has an unfair negative connotation, and the most wealthy are vilified. Oh well….
June 24th, 2007 at 11:44 pmBrookings reports that the military currently estimates around 70,000 Sunni insurgents. add up the various Shi’ite militias who frequently engage coalition forces (Mahdi, Fadila, etc) and you soon find yourself at around 200,000 of them
yet the military only estimates 1000 al qaeda in iraq
if we keep killing them on a daily basis as is being reported, we should have the entire lot mopped up inside of two months – unless of course that it’s simply convenient to portray enemy kills as al qaeda to prop up a faltering, criminal administration
and the observation of poor thinking skills is not an attack, but rather an analysis
June 25th, 2007 at 12:05 amHmmm…I would guess that the crickets chirping on this thread for nearly an hour since Jake’s post would have to mean that everyone believes that Jake can’t think himself out of a paper bag.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:38 amOr, that everyone agrees it was a personal attack. That and/or refusing to answer my questions when I do so in a civil manner are the only ways to get on the Ignore List.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:52 amBack on topic, Mr. Greenwald is incorrect in noting that anyone in this Administration is describing ALL Iraqi fighters as al Qaeda — it is definitely NOT obvious that they, and specifically its military commanders, decided to begin using the term “Al Qaeda†to designate “anyone and everyone we fight against or kill in Iraq†— next canard?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:09 amI think most of America understands the Al Qaeda nonsense and how BushCo uses it in their propaganda war against America. I just laugh whenever I see reports of Al Qaeda violence in Iraq … that is after I hang my head in sorrow and disgust for what BushCo has made of our once great country.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:02 am“Doublespeak was very common in the Third Reich. Goebbels’ Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda (Ministry of the Reich for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda) coined thousands of new German words. Other examples include “concentration camp” (labor/death camp, or “joycamp” in Newspeak), “protective custody” (imprisonment without due process of law), “Heim ins Reich” (occupation of Austria), and particular new meanings for “Volk” (people) and “Rasse” (race).”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublespeak
June 25th, 2007 at 4:25 amThe relationship between this administration and Al Qaeda is eerily symbiotic.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:56 amI like it. When do you want to call for it?
Comment by leftcoast — June 24, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
ASAP but frankly with a few exceptions and you we don’t have even a handful of people willing to “take it to the streetsâ€. People want to stay home and “comment†there days and nights till the inter web is taken down. Then organization will be harder and slower since we will have to rely on social networking (talking). I’m open to ideas as to how to achieve critical mass. I hope that we don’t have to wait till there is even more pain here in America?
All pride is false; when we examine our situation in the light of day we see that we are responsible in making amends no matter how wrong 9-11 was. The oldest adage says that, “Two wrongs never make a right!†We are the people and we are ultimately responsible for anything our government does regardless of what anyone says. We must find out collective faith and realize that everything over the last 6.5 years has been as much of a lie as the 2 decades preceding that point.
We are not looking for a collective medal here. We have to stop our wrath found in Bush from destroying the entire world. The US is the only nation to use full scale nuclear weapons and now the US is the leader of nations who routinely use depleted uranium. Our wrath is developing new weapons; one space based weapon that is expected to be deployed is named “Rods of Godâ€. There lays our pride problem again shown by building weapons in the name of “God†as though we were charged with a mission to purify the Earth.
We are all living a lie and depending on liars to rectify a situation that is a result of faithlessness and our own vanity. Shame is what we should be feeling now but people are determined to stick with apathy and still long for accolades. It has been said that God helps those that help themselves. If you don’t believe in a “Deity†then treat GOD as an acronym.
G = Good O = Orderly D = Direction
We must unite! That is the name of our nation people… UNITED STATES OF AMERICA not the fragmented fools collective!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
June 25th, 2007 at 9:13 amSUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
SUPPORT A GENERAL STRIKE TO EXPRESS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!
Ooooh kay…
June 26th, 2007 at 12:35 am