Lugar: U.S. Must Reduce Military Presence In Iraq
Lugar: U.S. Must Reduce Military Presence In Iraq
Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN), the senior Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, tonight announced his support for an immediate shift in Iraq policy, calling on President Bush “to downsize the U.S. military’s role in Iraq and place much more emphasis on diplomatic and economic options.”
In a major speech on the Senate floor, Lugar said that “victory” in Iraq as defined by President Bush is now “almost impossible.” The current course of the war “has lost contact with our vital national security interests in the Middle East and beyond,” he said.
Lugar warned that “persisting indefinitely” with Bush’s escalation strategy “will delay policy adjustments that have a better chance of protecting our vital interests over the long term.” He specifically rejected claims that withdrawing U.S. forces will increase instability. Downsizing the U.S. military presence in Iraq would “strengthen our position in the Middle East, and reduce the prospect of terrorism, regional war, and other calamities,” Lugar said. Watch it:
Also today, the Center for American Progress released its latest detailed Iraq exit strategy, Strategic Reset, which calls for virtually all U.S. troops to be redeployed out of Iraq within one year. Read more about the report, and analysis from Matthew Yglesias and Spencer Ackerman.
UPDATE: Full text of Lugar’s speech is HERE.
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That’s nice, Rahm, except as an American Democrat the right thing for you to have done for your nation merely to accurately represent both our genuine interests and sentiments according to every poll and every other measure would have been to state that both Cheney and Bush must be impeached immediately.
The definition of Fascism is when money corrupts government to the degree that they essentially become one, such that democracy and the rule of law itself are negated by collusion between business and governmental tyrants, and this is exactly what we now have in our formerly free and democratic America.
Thus, Rahm now bleating that he wants to take away Cheney’s money, instead of standing up like a self-repecting American to demand Impeachment. If George Washington had stood up to King George in the same half-hearted half-assed way that the Democratic leadership has confronted the GOP election theives since 2000, America herself would never have been born let alone existed since 1776.
To the regret and detriment of every American and to the world itself, every aspect of our nation has been warped so far rightward that the Democratic party, led by Emmanuel, Pelosi, Reid and others of their ilk have become nothing more than GOP Lite. There is no more loyal opposition because all democratic interest has been subsumed by considerations of money, power and control.
If Rahm, Nancy, Harry, John Conyers and the rest will not stand up behind Dennis Kuchinich to Impeach both Cheney and Bush immediately, then they must somehow be overruled by the will of We, the People of the United States of America, who never actually did vote for Cheney or Bush either in 2000 or in 2004, or American democracy as it has existed since the inception of our nation will have come to an end not with a bang but with a whimper, to be replaced by an explicitly fascist and thus entirely unamerican, illegitimate and unacceptable regime, which if history is any teacher will not be any government at all; merely a tyrannical fascism, a brief prelude to dictatorship, a preface to anarchy and an invitation to disaster.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:16 pmWhat is reducing the number of troops going to do? It’s only going to get more American’s killed. We need to bring them ALL home and work on diplomacy. We’ve f*cked up that country so bad, and staying there only continues to make it worse.
My heart goes out the the Iraqis. They are the ones who are most hurt by this. Saddam was a bad person but they are paying for it, just as they had when all the sanctions were going on. Saddam got his and they got nothing. Then we go there and take away even more. For NOTHING! For lies. For OIL.
If there’s a god, Bush, et al, will wind up at The Hague. And I will be cheering.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:22 pmReduce it to 0
June 25th, 2007 at 9:36 pmGive them back their country, they’ll figure out how to fix the fu(king mess we’ve made.
yup. reduce it. to zero.
now.
We don’t need to wait for the democrats or the republicans or the Iraqi government to tell us it’s ok to leave. The time to get out of Iraq is now.
Not next year, and not next fall.
today. Now.
Some reading:
June 25th, 2007 at 9:37 pm“Top-Ten Reasons to Get out of Iraq. Now!”
http://www.populistamerica.com/ top_ten_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq_now
Comment by Section 4 Article 2 — June 25, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
Do you know how irritating all bold type is to read?
You did it purposefully, not by accident.
Please don’t do it anymore, OK?
June 25th, 2007 at 9:38 pmOh boy the end of the war is near! Yippee!
June 25th, 2007 at 9:43 pmWe should leave Iraq so the Muslims destroy each other!
June 25th, 2007 at 9:46 pmdownsize doesn’t mean the end of the war.
watch for an october surprise next year.
chimpy will pull out 100,000 troops to influence the election.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:49 pmWell, Joker, we should leave Iraq because we cannot “win” whatever that is right now. Shia and Sunni destroying each other is just a bonus for you right-wing losers with no actual clue what goes on in the world.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:49 pmYES!!!!
The muuhhhfuhkin’ Joker is up in dis bitch!
June 25th, 2007 at 9:50 pmJPark, remember…they’re just Iraqis. When you dehumanize people, it’s easy to kill them.
Bush sees us all as plebs…how hard would it be for him to wipe us off the face of the earth?
When you have no soul and no conscience, it’s easy to make those calls.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:51 pmI think that The Joker might be trying to say that regardless of our intentions there will most likely be unexpected consequences if we withdraw hastily.
Is that what you mean The Joker?
June 25th, 2007 at 9:53 pmWe cannot win in Iraq because we don’t know what win is.
Chimpy has never said what win is.
That’s because the plan is to stay in Iraq until the oil runs out.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:53 pmthought we voted for democrats to end the war - not republicans.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:54 pmLOL, Primus, The Joker is a Cheneybot. He doesn’t think about those things. I would be willing to look at those consequences even if they didn’t conform to my beliefs. Joker…not so much.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:55 pmJanuary 28, 2007:
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Lugar, Senator Biden mentions the Senate resolution authored by the former armed services committee chairman Senator Warner. It simply states the Senate disagrees with the policy of sending more troops. Can you sign on to that?
SENATOR RICHARD LUGAR: No, I don’t think it’s at all helpful.
Lugar has not supported any legislation put forth that included timetables or redeployment of troops. Now he wants to make a headline or two.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:57 pmI keep seeing everyone talking about a ‘war’. Where are we at war? We surrendered a long time ago in the ‘war on terror’. As far as I can see, we are imperial occupiers of Iraq. A case could be made for saying that the first week or so was war, but since then it has been an occupation.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:58 pmComment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Hold on, let’s give The Joker a chance…
The Joker,
June 25th, 2007 at 9:59 pmIs this true?
Do you receive orders from Cheney?
You need to clear your good name around here!
MsJoanne, that is so alien. And so disgusting. I am having trouble finding the words. These a-holes are all for killing everybody they don’t like. I am at a loss for words.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:02 pmPrimus, he has had his chances and has proven to be similar to the actual Joker (Batman). Sorry, Primus, he is not going to redeem himself.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pmIt’s beyond disgusting, JPark. It takes us into Nazi territory, plain and simple.
And what I find so horrifyingly sad is that people still support it. No matter how much information is refuted. 41% of idiots believe Iraq had something to do with 9/11. The misinformation campaign continues and is apparently successful. Unfortunately, righties tend to be not too bright and easily led.
It’s sick.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:05 pmPIP, the main consequence of America leaving will be peace. You don’t think the CIA has been stirring the pot between Shia and Sunni? Come on, they’ve always loved the divide & conquer schtick.
And do you have a thing for The Joker? An old crush, perhaps??
Lugar’s comments give hope that funding will be cut in September. Even if they decide to bring everyone home, it can’t happen in 30 days, or even 90 days. It’s just a logistical thing; it’ll take at least six months to redeploy that many troops without putting remaining troops at risk.
But it can be done. And it sounds as if Congressional Republicans are coming round. As soon as they realize Bush just wants to pass defeat on to the next prez, the GOP will know that their hopes for 2008 are doomed without ending this thing by March ‘08.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:06 pmheh, heh, heh…. he said Primus….. heheh heheh heheh
June 25th, 2007 at 10:07 pmrichard lugar reads the newspapers and watches television:
he wants to be, in the words of general odom,
“the senior senator from the president’s party who publicly says the direction of the war must change” -
as senator fulbright did with pres. johnson on vietnam.
my, that was quick.
but will it stick?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:08 pmSorry, Primus, he is not going to redeem himself.
Comment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
Yes, but it would be funny to see him try. Plus, his mind works in fascinating ways. He thinks that we are controlled by “Muslim masters,” where does he get this stuff?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pmLook’s like somebody got a sneak preview…
…of Patreaus’ new and improved…
…September briefing…
June 25th, 2007 at 10:11 pmYes, butthead I said Primus. And?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:11 pmWitness history repeating itself here in quite the large scale. The top leaders of a powerful nation put their reputations above everything, our lives, our soldiers lives, Iraqi lives, the financial stability of our country, our already ruined international reputation, etc, etc. All so that they will not end up like Richard Nixon or Hurbert Hoover. However, it is quite clear the danger to our species is that if we have a crisis similar to October 1962, we will all die. This president and those surrounding him will bumble it. They clearly do not have the intelligence of President Kennedy and his advisors. Not many did. Can we make it for 2.5 more years ? More true Americans - thank you Dick Lugar - need to come forward. Not too much time left on the nuclar clock. Tick, tick, …
June 25th, 2007 at 10:11 pmDear david,
It’s been a while. You are still a little bitch though. As always,
Go Fukc Yourself,
PiP
June 25th, 2007 at 10:12 pmIt doesn’t take a lot of brains to stand up NOW and say we should be downsizing in Iraq. And just saying it is not enough. Tomorrow more of our fine young Americans will be killed in Iraq as Congress beats the issue to death. Congress, care enough about Americans to take a stand. Not one more dollar for escalation in Iraq. Every dollar authorized should only be available for returning Americans to America. Too bad if some feel we will lose face by withdrawal. We Americans don’t have egos bigger than the death toll. And you can’t win if you don’t know what the score is or how the game is judged.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:12 pmPrimus, I am guessing he gets his stuff from Hannity or Limbaugh or Savage. There are differences between those guys. I am guessing Hannity. Savage is the worst…Limbaugh is the least offensive of the three (that is sickening). So he is kind of in the middle.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:13 pmGus, that would depend. Does it take a lot for a citizen to say “Get them the f^ck” out? No. Politician? It seems so. I really don’t know why though. Maybe David Frum is in charge.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:15 pmCut and run is cut and run, be it a Dimocrat or a Republican. Lugar has gone wobbly in the knees. Pathetic and disgraceful.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:15 pmPathetic and disgraceful.
Comment by Big Fit
You oughtta know.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:17 pmSenator Richard Lugar (IN - R) is a war criminal and has been happily covering up for the lying, election-stealing, torturing, war-monger treasonous Bush for the last six and a half years.
Now Sen. Lugar says, “It will also require members of Congress to be receptive to overtures by the President to construct a new policy outside the binary choice of surge versus withdrawal.” Oh, it’s that groovy “third way,” the new policy of how to steal Iraq’s oil that Lugar is hinting around about: part way between endless escalation and (gasp) withdrawal…
Lugar goes on: “We don’t owe the President our unquestioning agreement, but we do owe him and the American people our constructive engagement.” Constructive engagement with an insane war criminal and oil-nazi like Bush? Sounds a lot like Neville Charmberlin’s “peace in our time” with the worthless Munich accords signed by the British and Hitler just before WW II broke out in earnest.
There is no such thing as “constructive engagement” with an insane war criminal like Bush. Sorry, Senator Lugar, but it’s either continued kow-towing to Bush or impeaching, trying, convicting and removing Bush.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:18 pmCan’t wait until I see how you vote regarding future Iraq issues, Lugar!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:18 pmLugar is another wussy Repuke like Arlen Sphincter.
Plenty of tough talk but they back down to Chimpy every time.
Karl Rove calls them up and reminds them of those naughty pictures he has of them.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:20 pmPRIMVS INTER PARES ,
No we should l4eave so they can kill each other. Then Iran and the Saudis will go at it.
Then their economies will collapse and our nation free of Islamic rule!
JPark.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:23 pmI grew up in a big city and travelled to different nations. You’re from a hick town in Wisconsin.
I know more about the world than your hillbilly ass!
Besides you have no moral high ground as you despise Christians as much as I hate Muslims.
It’s the pot calling the kettle black!
Once again, PIP, you show everyone you don’t have the brains of a fukcing pissant. Crawl back under your rock and let the ADULTS discuss issues here.
BRAINDEAD IDIOT!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:23 pmJPark,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:24 pmYou’re hardly a model of tolerance hypocrite.
“Cut and run is cut and run, be it a Dimocrat or a Republican. Lugar has gone wobbly in the knees. Pathetic and disgraceful.”
Isn’t that a played out talking point, “Big Fitz”? Cut and run? Not even your heroes use that now. Didn’t you know that you righties are now blaming Hillary for the war? Christ, listen to your messages, you retarded little troll.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:25 pmJPark,
You’re hardly a model of tolerance hypocrite.
Comment by The Joker
You’ll find that JPark is mainly intolerant of idiotic trolls like yourself.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pmThe Joker, how is that hypocritical? By the way, did I mention tolerance? Nope, I didn’t. I don’t tolerate idiots like you.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pmDavid,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pmIraq will be bloodbath when we leave.
I’ll have the popcorn and watch on TV Muslims killing each other!
That’ll be cool!
Heh, Zoo, thanks, I posted before I saw yours. I was an idiot the other night though. Jane and Wayne probably hate me now :(.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pmAnd? Comment by JPark
no offense to you sir, I was just remembering a particular episode where that line occured…and taking a poke at a troll
June 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pmmust be getting close to election time! for what ever reason it’s great to see these GOP bastards start to get an inkling of the Truth. its time these morons started doing what’s right for our country and the world, not for their own stinkin Political Party.
LOL #37!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pmGotta say…Mr. President bashing Primus is kinda dumb. Can you bash yourself? Honest question.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:28 pmJust more empty rhetoric from Lugar designed to give himself enough credibility by appearing not to be a total Bushbot so he can later tilt the balance of the debate for BushCo. He’s no more independent than Arlen Spector. Every utterance by these enabling clowns should be disregarded without comment.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:28 pmJPark,
You haste Christians and admitted to me so.
Hence you have no moral highground to judge me and fdo the typical Leftist holier than thou mantra!
I hate Muslims.
You hate Christians.
We’re on the same field.
As for me being an idiot, I guess that’s the Stalinist way of disagreeing with some else’s viewpoints.
That’s from one bigot to another.
Zooey,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:30 pmWho asked you?
I’ve not attacked you so but out!
Ahh, ok, Butthead. I am a big fan of Primus and Les Claypool. I am in the troll-killing mode. I deeply apologize.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:30 pmI want my fu*king MONEY back!
…and I want to see Bushiva, L’il Dick’s…
… and ALL of those who’ve supported these worthless sons of pig fu*kers…
…SUFFER!
…personally, professionally, and physically…
June 25th, 2007 at 10:31 pmI’m guessing he’s probably pretty good at bashing himself.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:31 pmHeh, Zoo, thanks, I posted before I saw yours. I was an idiot the other night though. Jane and Wayne probably hate me now :(.
Comment by JPark
I can’t imagine Wayne & Jane hating anyone, JPark. I missed whatever happened, but I’m sure it will be fine.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:32 pmThe Joker, I haste Christians? I am guessing you mean hate. My mom is a Christian, I don’t hate her. I have dated Christians…a Southern Baptist and a Mormon to be specific. They were both great. I just hate you.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:32 pmJPark ,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pmWayne is one poster I respect.
We come from different angles but have the same conclusions.
I have deep respect for him!
Juan C, I also respect.
He’s an honest Marxist and hates the US political system.
He has some valid points and I respect that.
You’re just a Brainwashed clown who’s one dimensional and can’t think outside the box.
Yiou should be the Joker because that’s what you are.
A Joke!
Zoo, I was a jackass. I was ripping Libertarians. I disagree with Libertarians very much but I was over the top.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pmGotta say…Mr. President bashing Primus is kinda dumb. Can you bash yourself? Honest question.
Comment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 10:28 pm
That was david/butthead.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pmAnd you know what Joker? In my religion I can hate you all I want :)
June 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pmJPark,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pmLiar, you said you hated Christians the other night.
So don’t weaselyour way out of this.
It’s your right to hate Christians as much as it’s my right to hate Muslims!
Zooey,
Who asked you?
I’ve not attacked you so but out!
Comment by The Joker
I don’t need to wait for permission to exercise my right of free speech.
Get bent, Joker.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pmI figured Primus. Pretty cheap.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pmJPark,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pmLibertarians believe in Freedom.
Unlike you Stalinists that want to run people’s lives!
Jane and Wayne probably hate me now :(.
Comment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
I can’t imagine Wayne & Jane hating anyone, JPark. I missed whatever happened, but I’m sure it will be fine.
Comment by Zooey — June 25, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
Zooey is indeed wise, JPark. Neither of us hates you. You need not explain; we just figured you read something I wrote the wrong way on the wrong day. It happens. Forgive and forget. I forgive you, and I’m perfectly willing to forget it happened if you will. Deal? :)
June 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pm#
PRIMVS INTER PARES ,
No we should l4eave so they can kill each other. Then Iran and the Saudis will go at it.
Then their economies will collapse and our nation free of Islamic rule!
JPark.
I grew up in a big city and travelled to different nations. You’re from a hick town in Wisconsin.
I know more about the world than your hillbilly ass!
Besides you have no moral high ground as you despise Christians as much as I hate Muslims.
It’s the pot calling the kettle black!
Comment by The Joker —
This post is certainly a peice or work…Is this a joke? What a messed up freak.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pmThe Joker, I do hate you pissy little hateful Christians (that would be the right-wing scumbag Christians like you). Is that wrong?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pmZooey,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:36 pmI won’t bother with you.
You’re a brainwashed Dhimmi who adds nothing!
Just spewing Pro-Muslim talking points!
The Joker,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:36 pmAre you affiliated with any specific political group?
If so, could you please tell us the name?
The Joker, Libertarians agree with Liberals on certain things and Conservatives on others. I have never met a Stalinist. That was kinda dumb, Joker.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:36 pmthis week on a very special episode of ‘u.s. senate’, dick lugar rediscovers his dignity
June 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pmHey gang…
…once again my apologies…
…for my BASTURDZ…
…Big Sh*tz and Joke..’r
…they’re both the products of…
…coitus interruptedus…heh
…their mommies made me take it out too soon…
…and they didn’t get the benefit of ALLL of my…
…brain food…
June 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pm“I won’t bother with you.
You’re a brainwashed Dhimmi who adds nothing!
Just spewing Pro-Muslim talking points!”
Baaaahhhhhh, I have changed my mind. Joker is a Savage fan. Young, dumb and full of sh!t.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pmZoo, I was a jackass. I was ripping Libertarians. I disagree with Libertarians very much but I was over the top.
Comment by JPark
They get along with Exley for heaven’s sake! :)
June 25th, 2007 at 10:38 pmJPark ,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:38 pmYou just admitted, you hate Christians.
Thanks for proving my point.
Oh did I meantion.
I’m not all that religious.
So bash all you want!
I don’t care.
I’ll bash yopur Muslim buddies since it hits a nerve with you Stalinists!
LOL, big papa, couldn’t you have aborted the Joker and saved us all the annoyance?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:38 pmZooey,
I won’t bother with you.
You’re a brainwashed Dhimmi who adds nothing!
Just spewing Pro-Muslim talking points!
Comment by The Joker
Blah, blah, blah, dimwit!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:40 pmLooks like you’re bothering with me, ya piss-soaked troll.
“Then Iran and the Saudis will go at it.
Then their economies will collapse”
that makes sense on zero levels. oh wait. if they shoot oil at each other rather than bullets, your plan might work.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:40 pm…and they didn’t get the benefit of ALLL of my…
…brain food…
Comment by big papa
Heh. That brain food must be some powerful stuff, big papa. :D
Long time, no see!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:41 pmPIP,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:43 pm“Are you affiliated with any specific political group?”
we have a name, but it’s not finalize.
Once our website goes up we’ll have an offial name.
Our goal is to remoive Muslim influence from our Government, Economy, Media and Entertainment.
We will present a 20 point manifesto that’ll unite Patriotic Rightwingers and Patriotic Leftist.
It’ll unite Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists ands Athiests agaisnt our common enemy, Islam!
pgw,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:44 pmIn a Saudi-Iran war they’ll destroy each other’s oil fields.
That’ll force us to get serious about Alternative Energy.
JPark,
Have you ever checked out http://www.politicalcompass.org ? It’s where I learned about my Liberal-Libertarian side. I’m not a complete nut on the Libertarian front, what with all the “taxes take away our freedom” stuff. Taxes are a necessary evil, I guess. But I do believe in limited government; I just want it applied to promoting the general welfare. That’s where the Conservative Libertarians (like Ron Paul and our friend The Joker) and I part company. In the end, we agree to disagree because we all hate what this administration is doing to everyone’s freedoms. World-wide, one might argue.
So I view them as potential allies, willing to support at least some of the same things that I do. I don’t adhere to the adage “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, because in the end, after your common enemy has been defeated, it’s too easy to go back to being enemies with your “new” friends. I wouldn’t like that, because I hope that through our mutual cooperation, we can build a stronger alliance based on the things we do have in common. (Like enjoying clean air, clean water, etc.)
June 25th, 2007 at 10:44 pmComment by The Joker — June 25, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Keep me posted!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:45 pm“You just admitted, you hate Christians.
Thanks for proving my point.
Oh did I meantion.
I’m not all that religious.
So bash all you want!
I don’t care.
I’ll bash yopur Muslim buddies since it hits a nerve with you Stalinists!”
Where to start…I just admitted hating Christians? Where? You are not all that religious? What does that mean? Do you believe in hell? It kinda looks like you are going there if that is what you believe in.
You can bash Muslims and Stalinists is you really feel like it. Muslims are just as ridiculous as Christians and Stalinists don’t exist.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:46 pmWayne A. Schneider,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:47 pmHow’s everthing man!
Actually I belive in Government intervention to help the poor and middle class.
I believe in Healthcare fo people making under 40,000 or the unemployed.
I also belive in getting rid of Corporate Welfare and making people who make over 200,000 pay a 45% rate plus a 10% Social Security tax.
From Lugar:
“Unless we recalibrate our strategy in Iraq to fit our domestic political conditions and the broader needs of U.S. national security, we risk foreign policy failures that could greatly diminish our influence in the region and the world.”
What bothers me most about statements like the above, and it seems the philosophy is universally accepted, is that we have the “right” to determine the rest of the world’s “living conditions.” Whatever actions we are doing, or planning, are framed as “what is in our best interest.” Now that is fine as long as we are dealing WITH another country, but decidely NOT when are interfering IN another country.
Yet that is all I hear, see and read. Everything said, assumes that it was good, right and necessary to invade Iraq, because it was “in our national interest.”
“In our national interest” has nothing to do with it, yet here all our country’s leaders are trying to make some decision or plan some action about our future occupation of the ME. We can’t even agree whether to go or stay. Or if we go, when to do it or how complete it should be.
The point is we had no right what so ever to invade Iraq, no right to occupy it, no right to kill its people and no right to bring destruction to its infrastructure.
WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE IN IRAQ. Period. Exclamation point! No right then. No right now. That is the elephant in the room no one is talking about.
If they did talk about it, all these “deep studies” (this one and the Iraq Study Group for instance) would be no more than the chattering of the barn animals they appear to be.
There is no rationalization, no reason, or justification that gives us the “right” to be there (except that it is in our national interest, of course, ahem.)
What to do? There is only one right answer.
We need to admit we were wrong to do what we did and are doing. We need to stop it, now, and we need to get out of Iraq (and all countries that don’t want us there.) We also need to apologize profusely for the death and destruction we have caused by our illegal invasion and occupation. Then, when this has been accomplished, we owe the Iraqi people all the help they need in order to rebuild their destroyed communities.
Comment by MsJoanne — June 25, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
June 25th, 2007 at 10:48 pmThank you for the understanding, empathy and compassion you feel for the Iraqi people and the situation in general. You have consistently, over many posts, made elephant in the room easier to see.
Stalinists don’t exist.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:49 pmYes it does the Modern Democrat party and the Media machine that name calls and target anyone that disagree with them!
“In a Saudi-Iran war they’ll destroy each other’s oil fields.
That’ll force us to get serious about Alternative Energy.
Comment by The Joker — June 25, 2007″
no it won’t. but russia told me to tell you that’s a great idea!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:50 pmWayne, I understand more than you know. I knew it when I was being a jerk. I agree with you on most things. I am a liberal and mostly when I talk about that I mean I am a social and eco-social liberal. I believe in the typical liberal position of equal rights and I also agree with spending money on the poor when the economy calls for it.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:50 pm“Stalinists don’t exist.
Yes it does the Modern Democrat party and the Media machine that name calls and target anyone that disagree with them!”
No, Joker, you are not a target…you are just kinda dumb.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:51 pm“Actually I belive in Government intervention to help the poor and middle class.
I believe in Healthcare fo people making under 40,000 or the unemployed.
I also belive in getting rid of Corporate Welfare and making people who make over 200,000 pay a 45% rate plus a 10% Social Security tax.”
Wayne, read this from Joker. Every liberal believes in this. Joker talks a good game but bashes liberals at every turn.
Joker, read your post. Are you a “Stalinist”?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:52 pmHeh. That brain food must be some powerful stuff, big papa. :D
Long time, no see!
Comment by Zooey
Hey Zoo,
…they tell me…
…it’s good for what ails ‘em… :-)
…I thought we all could use a laugh…
June 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pmSomehow, I think you are full of it, Joker.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pmYeah yeah, lots of people are against the war. Whaddaya gonna do about it?
The Chimpya and Dickster don’t give a rat’s ass, and they dare you to impeach them.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:54 pmZoo, I was a jackass. I was ripping Libertarians. I disagree with Libertarians very much but I was over the top.
Comment by JPark
They get along with Exley for heaven’s sake! :)
Comment by Zooey — June 25, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
JPark, it’s good to see you back. I was concerned when you didn’t show up for a few days. Jackass? Never! :D
Zooey, you know we get along with Exley because we’re Mets fans. Can’t hate a fellow Mets fan! On most other things, of course we disagree, but we’re usually polite about it. Most of the time, anyway!
June 25th, 2007 at 10:55 pmJPark,
June 25th, 2007 at 10:56 pmI bash Staliniists like you not Liberals.
I’m actually a Liberal but with Isolationist, Nationalist and Libertarian leanings
I call you Stalinists since you want to silence those that disagree with you.
Plus you hate Christians so that makes you a Totalitarian.
The shoe fits so wear it!
The Onion had a joke about how in the future, the Middle East will be banning together to take out the rouge US country.
How far off were they?
June 25th, 2007 at 10:57 pmThank you for the understanding, empathy and compassion you feel for the Iraqi people and the situation in general. You have consistently, over many posts, made elephant in the room easier to see.
Comment by Merlin
I agree, Ms Joanne’s a total keeper.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:58 pmWayne, I have taken that test. It is kind of bogus. I am considered a Socialist, which is fine. However, it considers Communism and Socialism political views when they are not. Those are economic beliefs, not political beliefs.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:58 pmDo you even know what a Socialist is Joker? Somehow, I don’t think you do.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:59 pmOff to watch Jon Stewart now–be back later.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:00 pmForTruth,
June 25th, 2007 at 11:00 pmOnly in your Islamists dreams.
They will devour each other like the snakes they are.
Besides we have 7,000 Nukes.
Good luck to them!
Zooey, you know we get along with Exley because we’re Mets fans. Can’t hate a fellow Mets fan! On most other things, of course we disagree, but we’re usually polite about it. Most of the time, anyway!
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Yeah, you hockey people are incurable. :)
Exley admitted I was right twice in one day, and once the very next day. I had to stop being quite so hard on him. I think it’s an evil plan……
June 25th, 2007 at 11:01 pm“JPark, it’s good to see you back. I was concerned when you didn’t show up for a few days. Jackass? Never! :D”
Thanks Jane. I WAS a jerk. I am glad you don’t think so. I STILL want to see a Mets-Brewers NLCS. They are the two best teams in the NL. I am very sorry, Jane and Wayne.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:01 pmThe Joker,
June 25th, 2007 at 11:01 pmHow can our group prove that these people are all serving Muslim masters?
They are going to want proof before we can expell them from the country.
…it’s good for what ails ‘em… :-)
…I thought we all could use a laugh…
Comment by big papa
No doubt, big papa. :-D
June 25th, 2007 at 11:02 pmLOL, Primus, you realize this guy is a total tool, don’t you? I guess the words “Stalinist” and “Islamist” gave him away. If you are on the left you must be one or the other.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:03 pmIf you are on the left you must be one or the other.
Comment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
I want to know his reasoning.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:04 pmMaybe he knows something that we do not.
I’m an IslamoStalinist.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmGo ahead, Primus, I would like to know too.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmI’m an IslamoStalinist.
Comment by ForTruth — June 25, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
The Joker was right all along!!!
June 25th, 2007 at 11:08 pmMaybe he knows something that we do not.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
I have no doubt…..
June 25th, 2007 at 11:10 pmI’m an IslamoStalinist.
Comment by ForTruth
I thought you were a FascistHippy.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:11 pmLOL, IslamoStalinist. I would love to hear the definition from old Joker on that one.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:15 pmFaxed just now to Sen. Lugar’s Office in Indianapolis (his Washington fax was busy):
Dear Senator Lugar,
June 25th, 2007 at 11:18 pmWe have just read that you today addressed the Senate and called on Bush “to downsize the U.S. military’s role in Iraq and place much more emphasis on diplomatic and economic options.”
We can only say: about time. Too bad it is after so much blood, and the destruction of America’s standing in the world as a force of good and justice.
After Bush and Cheney lied and with malicious intent cooked intelligence to commit an illegal invasion of another nation that was planned by PNAC and Cheney years before 9/11, for the sole purpose of geopolitical control of their oil and its flow to the U.S. and Britain. An invasion claiming Al Qaeda involvement in Iraq that was and remains a total lie and fabrication. And starting last week, the administration has the army lying and claiming all attacks in Iraq, all engagements, are against Al Qaeda operatives. More lies.
At the cost of the lives of almost 4,000 good and true American soldiers. At the cost of almost that many private contractors engaged in the war profiteering spawned by this, the worst, most tragic misstep in foreign relations in the history of our nation. At the cost of over 600,000 excess deaths of Iraqi civilians, and an estimate displaced two million Iraqis, internally and forced into exile, many of them young women this week reported to now be supporting themselves by prostitution in Syria
This is the legacy of the Bush and Cheney administration.
The real tragedy for you, Senator Lugar, is that YOU SUPPORTED THIS EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. You also have supported the insanely unconstitutional Patriot Act, the suspension of Habeas Corpus, warrant-less wiretapping, search and seizure, and the obscene, immoral practice of torture of prisoners held by American forces.
We can only hope that this is the first step on your road to recovery as a Senator to uphold your oath of office, which was to the Constitution, not to the criminal Bush and Cheney regime. Can we now hope that you will take stands that will right the other wrongs we have enumerated, and start the restoration of a rule of law under our Constitution of which we are in such desperate need?
“Yeah, you hockey people are incurable. :)
Exley admitted I was right twice in one day, and once the very next day. I had to stop being quite so hard on him. I think it’s an evil plan……”
LOL, Zoo, I LOVE hockey!! We lost our semi-pro team because there were 4 of us :(.
Be fair, how many times would tranny admit you were right? Exley is wrong almost all of the time but he is almost honest.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:19 pmLOL, Zoo, I LOVE hockey!! We lost our semi-pro team because there were 4 of us :(.
Of course you love hockey, JPark, you’re form the polar region. :D
Be fair, how many times would tranny admit you were right? Exley is wrong almost all of the time but he is almost honest.
Comment by JPark
You’re right. He never admits when HE’S wrong, but he did admit I was right. :)
VV is a hopeless waste of skin. Too bad really, she’ll probably be needing it tightened soon.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:22 pmI’ll be a fascist hippy tomorrow. Until then, silence the trolls. Put them in the designated free speech zone. Tell them to breathe deeply.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:26 pmZooey, I am such an optimist that I want Exley to stick around. Primus is almost prooving me right. He may not have my politics but he will enter an honest debate. Am I being too foolish?
June 25th, 2007 at 11:29 pm“Of course you love hockey, JPark, you’re form the polar region. :D”
Hey, it was 88 today!!! Yeah, in the winter it does get kinda chilly :)
June 25th, 2007 at 11:31 pmVV is a hopeless waste of skin. Too bad really, she’ll probably be needing it tightened soon.
Comment by Zooey
You know what? I think she is hot (if her picture is that one from myspace) and there is the pity factor that brings out the parent-like feeling in me.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:36 pmJuan are you kidding?
June 25th, 2007 at 11:38 pmComment by HeartlandLiberal — June 25, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
Good for you–excellent letter!
—————-
OT:
Yeah, you hockey people are incurable. :)
Comment by Zooey — June 25, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
Hockey, schmockey, give me baseball any day of the week!
JPark (may I call you J?), if the Mets end up facing the Brewers, I’ll do my damnedest to get tickets so we can meet up! Hmmm, my boss has a ticket package, I know from past experience that he’ll get the opportunity to get NLCS tickets (if the Mets make it that far), I can probably guilt him into letting me take his seats….
June 25th, 2007 at 11:39 pmI’m an IslamoStalinist.
Comment by ForTruth
I thought you were a FascistHippy.
Comment by Zooey
Hehehehe. Good ones.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:40 pmJuan are you kidding?
Comment by ForTruth
Yes. I would totally do her.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:40 pm#81 Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 25, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Have you ever checked out http://www.politicalcompass.org?
Yeah, I did as well. I am way down in the lower left quadrant. No libertarianism in me. A well done test and well worth taking. Especially as it is free. I was not surprised at my leanings but I suspect many will be.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:41 pmOk, Im gonna stop.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:42 pm“JPark (may I call you J?), if the Mets end up facing the Brewers, I’ll do my damnedest to get tickets so we can meet up!”
Hmm, I am thinking…I don’t think any trolls are called J so go ahead :). I will get home tickets for the Brewers playoff games (it could be another 25 years before they get there again!!!!)
June 25th, 2007 at 11:45 pmAlright Juan, if she was drunk and never talked about politics, I would. There. (damned hormones)
June 25th, 2007 at 11:45 pmJuan, I do agree. She is attractive. As soon as she opened her mouth though, she would get dumped. By the way, she is no lawyer from SD. She is a minor from South Africa.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:47 pmAlright Juan, if she was drunk and never talked about politics, I would. There. (damned hormones)
Comment by ForTruth
Why would she have to be drunk? In order to be nicer?? Hhahaha, that would be really odd. I WOULD HAVE to be drunk.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:48 pmComment by JPark — June 25, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
That would be cool. :D
June 25th, 2007 at 11:49 pmAs soon as she opened her mouth though, she would get dumped.
Comment by JPark
Oh, I thought another thing at first…
June 25th, 2007 at 11:51 pmZooey, I am such an optimist that I want Exley to stick around. Primus is almost prooving me right. He may not have my politics but he will enter an honest debate. Am I being too foolish?
Comment by JPark
Oy, I feel the same way. Mr P knows, but I’ll deny it to Exley. :-)
June 25th, 2007 at 11:52 pmOk, Juan, JPark & Truth are making me f*cking puke.
I have totally lost respect for the lot of you. :P
June 25th, 2007 at 11:54 pmJane, the Brewers being in the first round of the playoffs would thrill the heck out of me. I barely remember the 82 WS (the Wallbangers were so much better than those nasty little Cardinals).
June 25th, 2007 at 11:54 pmLOL, Zoo, I get you. I am not proud but I am male. Still, it wouldn’t exactly be the most romantic sex you have ever seen :)
June 25th, 2007 at 11:56 pmLOL, Zoo, I get you. I am not proud but I am male. Still, it wouldn’t exactly be the most romantic sex you have ever seen :)
Comment by JPark
Aw hell, I don’t want to THINK about it, let alone SEE it.
Shhhhh……
June 25th, 2007 at 11:59 pmI remember the good ole’ days when this kind of talk would bring out the trolls with their asinine accusations of “cutting and running” out of Iraq.
Well, now that even Republicans are saying the very same exact things and also agree that victory -as defined by Pres Bush- is practically impossible, where are those trolls?
Anyone know? Anyone?
Oh, that’s right, I forgot: It’s OK if you are a Republican.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:00 amHehe, Zoo, it is a hateful thought. Nobody should think about it OR see it.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:02 amI have totally lost respect for the lot of you. :P
Comment by Zooey
Nahh, this is all guys talk. We say we would do every single vagina available, but if one walks up to us and says: lets do this, we find the nearest exit.
(Did I fix it a little?)
June 26th, 2007 at 12:02 amGregor, actually, some jackass did bring out the cut and run meme.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:03 amLOL@Juan. I cannot disagree.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:04 amComment by JPark — June 26, 2007 @ 12:03 am
Ah, I just saw that. I missed it originally.
Your reply to it was correct: Not even the puppet masters are using that line anymore. Only the brain dead haven’t been able to catch up yet. Too much extra concentrated Kool Aid, I guess…
June 26th, 2007 at 12:09 amHey guys,
what does this mean?
Economic Left/Right: -3.38
June 26th, 2007 at 12:11 amSocial Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.56
Nahh, this is all guys talk. We say we would do every single vagina available, but if one walks up to us and says: lets do this, we find the nearest exit.
(Did I fix it a little?)
Comment by Juan C
A little……but only because I know it’s true. :)
Heh.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:11 amLugar > go tell that to Bush’s face with the press in tow, or shut-up.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:11 amZoo, please dont be offended, and I ask you this becuz you are the greatest easy going person Ive met: dont you ever wanted to f*ck the shit out of somebody just becuz you were mad at him/her?
Im sorry, TP posters.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:15 amYes. I would totally do her.
Comment by Juan C
Juan, please use protection, I think she’s a biohazard.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:16 amAlright Juan, if she was drunk and never talked about politics, I would. There. (damned hormones)
Comment by ForTruth
Guys, do yourselves a favor, pay a hooker.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:18 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 26, 2007 @ 12:11 am
It’s from the web site The Political Compass. They claim to be able to gauge your political tendencies and chart them in a quadrant. Personally, I think it’s a bit of a joke, but I know some who take it somewhat seriously.
At any rate, here is a link to a chart. Maybe it will help clarify your figures (your score?).
June 26th, 2007 at 12:18 amYeah, I know Im losing a lot of points tonight…
June 26th, 2007 at 12:19 amZoo, please dont be offended, and I ask you this becuz you are the greatest easy going person Ive met: dont you ever wanted to f*ck the shit out of somebody just becuz you were mad at him/her?
Im sorry, TP posters.
Comment by Juan C
Yes.
*hanging head in shame*
But not V V! :D
June 26th, 2007 at 12:20 amBut not V V! :D
Comment by Zooey
Hehehehe. Im with ya.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:22 amBack on topic, reality is finally setting in for Republicans who have at least a level of intelligence that allows them to be functional in society.
The rest come here to express their undying support for their Dear (mis)Leader. They are a self-selected random sample of the 28%ers. And it’s not a pretty sight.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:24 amComment by Gregor Samsa
Thanks.
Yeah I don’t know how accurate that test is.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:26 am“Yeah, I know Im losing a lot of points tonight…”
LOL. not with me Juan. I am male :P
June 26th, 2007 at 12:28 amPrimus, I don’t know either but I am guessing Gregors test would be pretty accurate. I have a 134 (not incredible and not dolt-like) and I think right-wingers are dumb as hell.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:30 amSomehow I think the righties would be minus 100.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:31 amComment by JPark — June 26, 2007 @ 12:30 am
I was talking about this test:
http://www.politicalcompass.org
June 26th, 2007 at 12:32 amI am male :P
Comment by JPark
Oh, no, well… I meant with the topic, and the language…etc. :D
June 26th, 2007 at 12:35 amPrimus, I took that a long time ago. I somehow scored Socialist. Not sure what that means considering I am an accountant. I guess that means I don’t want to be employed. Der.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:40 amI AM politically very left. Economically I am somewhat left. However, Socialist…I would like to hear a description. Is it a Stalinist? :)
June 26th, 2007 at 12:41 amHey guys,
what does this mean?
Economic Left/Right: -3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.56
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 26, 2007 @ 12:11 am
It means, believe it or not, that deep down inside yourself, assuming you were being truthful in your answers, that you are actually just left of center. Congratulations on leaving “the dark side”. :)
And now it’s time to say good night.
Good night.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:46 amWayne, I have been trying to bring Primus to the bright side!! Stats are good!!
June 26th, 2007 at 12:53 amEconomic Left/Right: -3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.56
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 26, 2007 @ 12:11 am
Heh. We’re having an influence on you Mr P. :D
June 26th, 2007 at 1:11 amPrimus, that is the 3rd time that test has come up. I am a Socialist according to that. It is kind of BS though considering Socialism is an economic system and they are saying I am that instead of a Dem or Rep. I guess an economic system is equal to a political system, now.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:30 amWe don’t currently have the votes to do more than Lugar is proposing.
It’s the start of a possible shift in policy in real rather than theoretical terms.
Don’t underestimate the significance of it.
It’s about what’s possible, not what’s ideal.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:32 amWe didn’t have the votes, but i thinkthings may be looking a little differently in the next week or so. Repugs can’t turn their back on the pres or the Party, but guess what? Cheney doesn’t seem to be in the Party or the Executive Branch anymore. He seems to have been operating on his own from the begining. And after all, that’s what the damn liberals said from the start anyway. So now, they can move against Cheney and still be loyal to the Party and keep the President in office till ‘09. I could be wrong, but, looks like a good opportunity to me.
June 26th, 2007 at 1:48 amWhy do Republicans, like Luger, hate America so much?
June 26th, 2007 at 1:58 am“substantial interests in the region”
area rug protection?
June 26th, 2007 at 2:26 amWe do have substantial interests now that Saddam is gone.
Iran has to be checked. He did that for us…until Bush the moron took him out.
So it’s on us and our allies. Well that is, if we had a president who knew what diplomacy means.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:35 amAs long as Lugar isn’t willing to cut funding and set a timetable to end this war, what he says means nothing. This guy is trying to have his cake an eat it too.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:46 amWhat took so long? A person of normal intelligence (none in the GOP) would have never followed the neocons to war and would have bailed on the neocon’s occupation of Iraq a long time ago.
June 26th, 2007 at 7:30 amAnd, the troops will start to come home, uh, yeah- about the time the 2008 elections are nearing.
June 26th, 2007 at 7:34 amThere is no such thing as a patriotic Republican.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:13 amWhat do we plan to do against Iran? They are now flying helicopters into Iraq and bombing English and American troops. We are at defacto war already. Do you folks plan to walk away from them to or can we fight back yet? They have already directly killed 44 English Soldiers, and indirectly killed 100’s of American/English. Is this acceptable to you?
June 26th, 2007 at 9:05 amI’ll believe Lugar when he puts his vote where his mouth is.
June 26th, 2007 at 9:14 amdick lugar - terrorist sympathising cut-and-run surrender monkey who hates america.
really, though, until he gets on the impeachment bandwagon, it’s all just hot air. c’mon dick - you know you want to.
June 26th, 2007 at 9:17 ami’ve been assessing these guys for a while now….Lugar is a tw*t…and will remain so…UNLESS his voting record makes an unprecedented realignment. I think we should even stop reporting this stuff….only report actual votes and one-page follow-up statements about those votes!!! Dem reps are just as slippery
June 26th, 2007 at 9:56 amLugar’s reversal is a big negative for Bush&Co. There is an article in the WaPo today about a move underfoot by repugs to remove Cheney. The guy who has the best odds of slipping into the vacant seat were the removal of Cheney to be accomplished is Fred Thompson! Giving him a comfortable perch from which to campaign for president.
June 26th, 2007 at 10:27 amCheney is due for a battery replacement this summer. His steel heart is in need of recharging.
I guess for the mild-mannered, milque-toasty Lugar to say something, it’s a big deal to Publicans. But it’s just more posturing and delay tactics, I’m sure.
June 26th, 2007 at 10:41 amHey “big fitz” what will victory be if we stay?How come you are at your keyboard and not in Iraq?They even take folks with IQs lower than yours so you should be a cinch.Or do you like staying at home with your momma?What a puke.
June 26th, 2007 at 11:21 am#182
These blind partisan GOP accusations are pure nonsense. We are in Iraq based on lies and deceptions and twisting “intelligence” to suit the lies. So if there is any “cutting and running,” it has been the GOP and some Democrats who are cutting and running from the truth! And the truth is Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Rice and the whole lot of them, all dishonest, lying presumptuous hypocrites, have cut and run from the truth of the evil that runs our corrupt government!
Going into Iraq was wrong. Staying there is wrong. And you cannot right a wrong by continuing the wrong!
A few things to do IMMEDIATELY:
1. Get out of Iraq now!
2. Begin congressional staffing to investigate Articles of Impeachment against Bush-Cheney.
3. Repeal the Military Tribunals Act, the Patriot Act and Homeland Secuirty. The war on terror is a FICTION this corrupt administration used to create the ugly reality that has made terrorism and hatred of America a greater risk to our security, not less. It was a self-fulfilling scheme to justify a moves toward martial law in America.
4. Begin congressional investigations into corruption within our intelligence community, and put an immediate end to NSA spying on Americans, and work on legislation to completely overhaul the intelligence community with full congressional oversight.
5. Immediately close Guantamano, shut down all CIA “black ops” foreign detention sites, investigate corruption and use of torture, and seek possible charges against Dept. of Defense military brass who were involved in Guantamano and Abu Ghraib atrocities against detainees who used Charles Graner and other low-ranking enlisted personnel as scapegoats to avoid full accountability and responsibility for this inexcusable breach of the Geneva Convention protocols.
Cut and run is cut and run, be it a Dimocrat or a Republican. Lugar has gone wobbly in the knees. Pathetic and disgraceful.
Comment by Big Fitz — June 25, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
June 26th, 2007 at 11:24 amHary Reid shamefully called Lugar courageous. Such a brave man lugar is. The son-of-a-bitch and his cohorts supported Bush’s war on Americans all these years with almost 4,000 dead now in Iraq. Lugar talks about a “gradual withdrawal” now, a gradual withdrawal that would take years with likely the end reaching 10,000 american dead. Thse guys make you sick.
June 26th, 2007 at 6:48 pmOh my goodness! The Republican imperialists are getting as nervous as the Democratic imperialists! What’s a hegemonist to do?
June 27th, 2007 at 4:10 amI heard Bush and the Republicans are coming out with an Iraq War Tax so all good Americans can show their patriotism and “put their money where their mouth is” Can anybody give me any detials on this?
June 27th, 2007 at 1:40 pm