REPORT: Stop Training Iraqi Security Forces And Redeploy U.S. Troops
REPORT: Stop Training Iraqi Security Forces And Redeploy U.S. Troops
A new Center for American Progress report titled Strategic Reset calls for the withdrawal of virtually all U.S. troops within one year, and for the United States to “phase out its training of Iraq’s national security forces and place strict limits on further arming and equipping Iraq’s forces.”
Training security forces has been one of the main tenets of President Bush’s Iraq strategy. Bush has repeatedly stated, “As the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down” and the United States has already invested $20 billion into training Iraq’s national army and police force. Other major Iraq strategies — including the Iraq Study Group and Congress’s war funding bill — also advocate continuing to fund Iraqi security forces.
But Strategic Reset charts a new course, arguing that this approach is actually contributing to the violence in Iraq:
First, the United States is arming up different sides in multiple civil wars that could turn even more vicious in the coming years. Second (and more important to America’s strategic interests) billions of dollars of U.S. military assistance is going to some of the closest allies of America’s greatest rival in the Middle East — Iran. The Shi’a-dominated Iraqi national army and security forces could quite quickly turn their weapons against American troops and allies in the region. [...]
Training and skill-building are not crucial for Iraq’s security forces. In fact many of them have more training than hundreds of U.S. soldiers being deployed as part of this surge. Rather, the Iraqi forces’ problems are related to motivation and allegiance. In the past three years, the size of Iraq’s security forces and the levels of violence have both grown steadily, even as the U.S. troop presence remained constant.
Other highlights of Strategic Reset:
– Redeployment of U.S. troops: U.S. troops would begin withdrawing from Iraq by the summer of 2007, at the latest. “U.S. troop levels in Iraq could decline to about 70,000 by January 2008, with a full redeployment completed by September 2008.” Troops would rotate to Kuwait, Turkey, Afghanistan, back to the United States, or to other “critical missions outside of Iraq.”
– Engage in global/regional diplomatic initiatives: The Bush administration needs to participate in regional conferences and engage in bilaterial discussions with Iran, ensuring that “the costs of intervening to exploit Iraq’s internal divisions are much higher than the benefits gained from working collectively to contain, manage, and utimately resolve Iraq’s internal conflicts.”
– Active leadership on the Arab-Israeli conflict: Bush should appoint a special Middle East envoy who would have the support of two senior ambassadors devoted to resolving Middle East conflicts. Not only does the United States need to negotiate with Iran and Syria to solve these issues, but it must also “remove any roadblocks it may have inappropriately placed in Israeli exploration of Syrian intentions.”
UPDATE: Spencer Ackerman at TPMmuckraker has more analysis.
UPDATE: Matthew Yglesias also has more.
See chart below for the correspondence between the levels of Iraq’s security forces and the violence in Iraq:
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Ok. And where would that leave the Iraqis? That’s right. In the middle of genocidal civil war. It would be far worse than Kosovo. No. There must be a stable nation or nation(s) before we can leave.
It would also have disasterous effects on the morale in the war on terror. Redeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:58 amThis is absolutely right!
You don’t bring peace to people by waging war on their cities and towns. You don’t save innocent lives by killing people.
period.
This policy of war, war and more war will never work. Ever. And, the time to leave Iraq is now.
Some reading:
“Top-Ten Reasons to Get Out of Iraq. Now!”
June 25th, 2007 at 11:58 amhttp://www.populistamerica.com/top_ten_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq_now
Comment by MAF54
Shouldn’t you be trolling for young male escorts?
Run along now, a gay man’s wild oats must be sown!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pmOh no!
Graphs!
A Conservative’s worst enemy – graphic representations of the truth, and simple enough for a 3rd grader to comprehend.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:03 pmThat’s right a ’stable nation’: one where the people obey their commander-in-chief and anyone else is traitorous scum.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:05 pmIt would also have disasterous effects on the morale in the war on terror.
Comment by MAF54
You mean like getting Osama Bin Forgotten?
“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.”
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
“I am truly not that concerned about him.”
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)
Do you really believe that CRAP you post, pedophile?
June 25th, 2007 at 12:05 pmNow is it just me, or does the arrival of the trained Iraqi police and army precede the big upsurge in attacks? Hmm.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:08 pmNot to ask a stupid question again, but who is our enemy at this point?
June 25th, 2007 at 12:10 pmAnd, if someone can finally define precisely who it is that we consider “our enemy”, then how do we distinguish them from the rest?
Just asking! Could be why our troops are so screwed up mentally when they come home….they’ve been fighting, literally, a boogeyman or everyone, as the case may be. It’s enough to mentally derange any sane individual for the rest of his life.
Psych wards, here they come. It’s predictable…..we’ve never been able to define who the enemy is so how can you be engaged in any type of a war?
June 25th, 2007 at 12:12 pmOther than Bush’s War Profiteers making out handily in all of this once the war machine engages, the winners become clear and that is those making mucho money off this illegal war.
The losers then become our military who have been used as puppets in a sick money game.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:13 pmNot to ask a stupid question again, but who is our enemy at this point?
Comment by veritas — June 25, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Didn’t you get the memo? If you are not with Chimpy, then you are Al Qaeda.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:13 pmHey Terry! Guess I didn’t get that memo. And, I am grateful that I do not consider myself as one of the Chimp’s inner sanctum of psychopathology.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:14 pmAt least my conscience is assuaged in all of this – I didn’t vote for the Chimp in the first place. We can thank all of our Repugnant buddies for the damage done to this country now.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:15 pm#4 But not so simple that the Third Reich can understand it!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:16 pmAs I’ve been saying: Don’t be absurd/Vote for a Third! The time has come to totally eclipse the GOP and make the Republicans the “new third party”. After all, they’ve made this country a “third world country” in the eyes of the rest of the world….it’s only fitting that the “third” moniker now be applied to this sick, twisted group of conartists.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:17 pmMAF54 = Mark A. FOLEY
Troll is a pervert.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:18 pmIsn’t it comical how you can identify a Republican these days in a couple of sentences. All you have to do is take a scrutinizing look at them – how they’re dressed and their personal inflexibility – and then they open their bigoted traps and you instantly know. I’m batting about a 90% in my visual assessments now and 99% in my verbal assessments. That small percentage (26%) who are still hanging in there are analogous to “hard core smokers” – the science is there that what they are doing is dangerous to their health (physical in smoking; mental in asslicking) and because they’ve made the almightly dollar their god, they are hanging on till the bitter end. And bitter end they will receive – as the Bush Cabal makes perfect fools out of all of them.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:20 pmDoesn’t this sound like when we (the CIA) trained and armed Bin Laden in Afghanistan?
Oh how we continue to make the same mistakes.
Think of what Ron Paul said in the GOP debate. They hate us because we meddle in their politics and ways of life. Our policies help nurture terrorism.
I feel for the Iraqis. We’ve f*cked up that country so bad and so many are dead and dying because of our administrations greed for oil and power. We’ve created a new batch of terrorists.
And, please, responding to people like MAF54 and m12 do nothing but hijack the thread and give their ignorance a voice. There is nothing we could say to change their little minds, and responding to them gives them just what they want: attention. Just like your 3 year old.
Pointless and frustrating. At least you know your 3 year old will outgrow it, unlike these ignorant trolls.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pmHi Tom! I don’t see any troll posts on my screen, do you? Guess I’ve become so skilled in instantly discarding them that I no longer see them there….my “troll scrolling technique” has become quite sophisticated these days. haha!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pm#16, so that’s how he makes a living now that he is no longer a congressman… minimum wage and all the pizza you can eat?
I can’t believe he thinks we have any face left to save after BushCo has dragged our country through the mud.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pmIt would also have disasterous effects on the morale in the war on terror. Redeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world.
Comment by MAFIA54 — June 25, 2007 @ 11:58 am
No jackass, it only means a serious loss of face for you and your rotten leader.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pmMsJoanne – Agreed! And I would ask these neocon christofascists one simple question: vis-a-vis the “meddling” which we are pros at all over the planet….How would we like it if Iran or N. Korea began meddling in our politics?? They talk the talk about their brand of spirituality – loving thy neighbor – but never practice it.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pmMost americans these days believe that the Bush Cabal IS a shadow government and when asked who their leaders, aka Executive Branch, is we can not loudly proclaim “no one”.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:23 pmAfter all, that’s what Dumb and Dumber uttered yesterday, isn’t it? They are NOT part of the Exec. Branch. Oh well….guess we could have guessed that no one was running this sicko show.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:24 pmRedeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world. -Comment by MAF54
Do you even bother to think at all before spewing such BS?
We ‘lost face’ in March of ‘03, just like the Judge Cheney shot, our ‘face’ is permanently damaged.
World Cop is wrong thinking. America’s job is to model progressive ideas, show the world what a free & progressive country can do, help others in distress and provide leadership to emerging Nations.
We lost all of that when we invaded a country that had not attacked us.
Is it worth it? No, in my opinion.
Can we change this? Yes. Opinion of the Neoturds has soured immensely. People recognize truth, and they haven’t had much of it since Bush took office.
Bush & Cheney belong in front of the World Court in the Hague, along with that pack of sniveling liars they call their administration.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pmsorry for the typo….my fingers get excited….meant that we can “now loudly proclaim that no one at all is minding the store”.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:25 pmAnd by the way lamebrain.
In case you don’t get TV reception up their in the Ozarks, our reputation at the moment thanks to you and the bungling corrupt idiots you support, is already in the crapper as low as it can go.
Our pulling out will restore respect again, as they watch America hand arab land back to the arabs, and arrest, try and punish the corrupt incompetent dirtbags you guys stood up.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pmZimzone: There’s little doubt that the minute they leave office both Dumb and Dumber will be facing court at the Hague. The plans are in the works internationally.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:26 pmRedeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world.
Comment by MAF54
Where is Osama bin Laden?
June 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pmBartlebee: The end of this illegal occupation of a sovereign nation may help to restore a small iota of the damage done by this pre-emptive strike. However, now that we’ve established the “Policy of PreEmption”, I fear that we will set into motion many nations desiring to do the same to us.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:27 pmThe “war on terror” was lost the day Bush let Karl Rove politicize the post-9/11 world. At a time when the whole world was behind Bush and America, Rove saw instead an opportunity to campaign. The results speak for themselves.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:28 pmVeritas, EXACTLY!
How would we feel if we were bombed and invaded? And who knows if that isn’t going to happen. And if it does, who is going to protect us? A bunch of hired thugs. And those people wouldn’t give a second thought to killing Americans for their cause: mercinary greed.
Those who claim to be christian are as far from it as they claim to be for it. How many times is helping the poor in the bible? How did Jesus treat and help people. F*cking christian hipocrites have hijacked our country (not to mention their own faith).
The BushCo has written the perfect tome: How To Ruin A Great Country In Seven Quick Years
June 25th, 2007 at 12:29 pmWhere is Osama bin Laden?
Comment by Zooey — June 25, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
We should make it into a TV show. Remember the old cartoon “Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego”?
We could call it “Where on Earth is Osama Bin Laden”.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:29 pmWe must crush enemy until all are dead. Then we must pump all oil. For us – for the U.S. God Bless America Praise be to Jesus.
Oil belongs to the U.S. the gretest country on the face of the planet!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:30 pmNot to ask a stupid question again, but who is our enemy at this point?
Comment by veritas
To the Bush administration, it is anybody who disagrees with them. I guess in this country, that means 70+% are the enemy to Bushco.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:30 pmPre-emptive is the operative word here because it was not Saddam Hussein who attacked us on 911, as this lying cabal first muddied those waters along with the paid-off corporate media. Actually, as far as Hussein is concerned, this was a total “oneupmanship” move by Jr. to wag his tongue at his father for his botched attempt earlier.
Besides, we align ourselves with dictators all over the world if we choose to and still do. The case can also be made that all of our products in this country are now being imported from a Communist country – something which was taboo in the past. So, as far as having some meaningfully spiritual reason like “spreading democracy – which is a total crock because our own version is seriously crippled at the moment – we can pick and choose our fights based on how much we can greedily gain from each country/dictator.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:31 pmHi Zooey! OBL is probably “on holiday” as we speak with the Bush Crime Family. Maybe getting in a round of golf or two.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:32 pmWe’ve become “users”……”greedy users” which is why our reputation on the planet is tanked.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:33 pmZooey – It’s nice to see that you were able to get the formatting keys to work for you. I still haven’t been able to finesse it. Drat! Now I can’t be a “bold blogger”!!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm“Where is Osama bin Laden?”
In essence, he has re-incarnated a thousandfold, and continues to multiply, exponentially, every day.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pm#33 You must be part of Bush’s HOLY TRINITY?? Guns, God and Gays!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pmBartlebee: The end of this illegal occupation of a sovereign nation may help to restore a small iota of the damage done by this pre-emptive strike. However, now that we’ve established the “Policy of PreEmptionâ€, I fear that we will set into motion many nations desiring to do the same to us.
Comment by veritas — June 25, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
Indeed. Thats the been the problem all along in fact, something these Messiah U graduates just don’t get.
Since our invasion, both China, Russia and North Korea have indicated their acceptence of the policy of pre-emptive war. China began a MASSIVE build-up back in 2003, right after they saw us invade Iraq. Russia did likewise, joining with China and creating their first ever military alliance.
North Korea decided it was time to build nukes, and challanged the coward republicans to do anything about it. In fact, Kim Jong Ill right now looks tougher than George Bush. He slapped Bush in the face, stating “you went into Iraq because you THOUGHT they might have WMD? Well, we have them, and what are you going to do about it?”.
And what did Bush do? Nothing. Not a damned thing. They even detonated Nukes and Bush did nothing, ruling out forever their sad story about us invading Iraq because we needed to keep them from getting WMD.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pmWe could call it “Where on Earth is Osama Bin Ladenâ€.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
It even fits nicely into the song!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:34 pmClinton did it too!!!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:35 pmZooey – It’s nice to see that you were able to get the formatting keys to work for you. I still haven’t been able to finesse it. Drat! Now I can’t be a “bold bloggerâ€!!
Comment by veritas
The keys work for me at home, but at my son’s place I had to type them in manually. So dreary…..
I imagine OBL is perfecting his tennis swing at Hyannis Port. Oy….
June 25th, 2007 at 12:36 pmThe Korea model for Iraq could work well. The commander could be a Lieutenant General once the forces are reduced, can report to the CentCom commander, and ensure peace and security once all of the insurgents in Iraq are nuked.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:40 pmRight now, we face a real threat. The new RUSSO-CHINA alliance is poised and ready to meet US aggression in the middle east, but worse, it is ready to take back Taiwan, forcing a US\CHINA\RUSSIA crisis.
If we attack China, we will be at war with Russia, who will be bolstered by Iran and North Korea. We will be facing a third world war, which of course is what the 15 or 20 percent of worthless nutjobs who still support the Bush holy war to eradicate the world of arab muslims, want.
Of course what they don’t realize is that in such an encounter, we will most surely lose.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:41 pmAnd if we attack Iran, you can rest assured we’ll be fighting Russia, which means fighting China.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:42 pmNorth Korea decided it was time to build nukes, and challanged the coward republicans to do anything about it.
Yeah, thats it. North Korea, under all sorts of embargoes and sanctions, managed to ramp up to a full-bore nuclear program complete with actual bombs starting in 2003. With such skills available to them, Im surprised Kim and Co. havent yet build a Super Death Ray that melts our brains.
Puts Iran into a whole new light, considering they have billions in oil revenue to work with that North Korea never had. Not that any of you think Ahmageddonajad’s Iran would actually build a bomb, considering their peace-loving ways since the embassy takeover.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:43 pmBartlebee, silly, silly person…North Korea doesn’t have anything we want – the oil is in the middle east and that’s all our admin cares about.
And even if we did want to do something…with whom are we supposed to do it with? Our forces are tied up in a war without a cause started by an admin without a clue. The number of people joining our military voluntarily are dwindling. We’ve outsourced our once mighty military to for hire thugs, for lots-o-American-dollars. We have little in the way of national guard – they are “serving” elsewhere.
We’ve become chattel to this administration and I suppose once we’ve hit the number of homeless and poor people (probably far exceeding, actually) the number of same during the Great Depression, we will become a country who is thrilled to work for food. Those people you see on the side of the road with signs could be you in how many years? No one is safe in their jobs, especially if you hold a middle management job.
But maybe all these immigration detention centers will house and feed us if we provide them with the slave labor the rich so desire.
We’ve become Nazi Germany with the support of the media and people who have a biblical, political, or whatever skewed value agenda. And it’s going to be too late before the masses realize it.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:47 pmThe Korea model for Iraq could work well. The commander could be a Lieutenant General once the forces are reduced, can report to the CentCom commander, and ensure peace and security once all of the insurgents in Iraq are nuked.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 25, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
Not to interject reality or anything, but the situation in Iraq, has zero resemblance to the situation in Korea. Korea, has a marked DMZ, and the South Koreans, have little or no interest in being controlled by the nutcase up north. Iraq has no clearly defined borders or areas, and has sectarian, and tribal issues. They just don’t match up.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmIt would also have disasterous effects on the morale in the war on terror. Redeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world.
Comment by MAF5
It might also mean less of them get crippled hideously for life, like Joseph Briseno Jr. So, you A**clown from Hell, why didn’t you bother to stop by that thread and spout your insane gibberish?
Does this mean you’ll finally put your money wher your mouth is (Lord knows what you’ll have to take OUT of your mouth first) and enlist voluntarily to fight the war you love so much?
June 25th, 2007 at 12:48 pmPeople think we’re the worlds superpower. But the truth?
Our Army is decimated from the war in Iraq. Russia and China combined right now have 3 quarters of a million trained, well equipped troops ready to meet go. New “joint” airllft and deployment capabilities means boots on the ground ready to confront our troops within 24 hours.
Anyone who thinks our 150,000 troops in Iraq could withstand the onslaught of 3 quarters of a million trained, well equipped “fresh” troops, is just kidding themselves. We don’t have a chance in a conventional war right now if Russia and China decided to play their new trump card. We’d be screwed. Not to mention the additional quarter of a million well trained well equipped troops that Iran would most suredly put into the frey.
We are facing danger. But its not the danger these right wing wimps worry about. Its not a handful of nutjobs flying planes into buildings, or detonating a dirty bomb.
Its all out war in the middle east, against two super powers who are getting sick of us taking a crap in their back yards.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pmIn essence, he has re-incarnated a thousandfold, and continues to multiply, exponentially, every day.
Damn shame too, considering that before the Iraq war it was just Osama.
He was one busy guy, that Osama, bombing and murdering and kidnapping from Germany to the Phillipines and everywhere in-between for the last forty years. Im still trying to figure out how he managed to blow himself to bits in the Lebanon Marine barracks bombing but not actually die. Quite the trick.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pmThey just don’t match up.
Comment by Krazny
Stop picking on Li’l CT V-1, Krazny. You’re actually “facts” in your argument. You’ll just confuse the child and upset him.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:50 pmI am not drawing “comparisons” Krazny. I am talking about whats REALLY going on right now. The stuff the evening news doesn’t want to tell you.
North Korea has detonated nukes. They have launched ICBM’s. And what did Bush do?
Not a damned thing. Proving he doesn’t care about protecting us from WMD’s. It was all hype. MsJoanna has it right.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pm…and enlist voluntarily to fight the war you love so much?
You ready to sign up and fight in the war liberals love so much? The illegal attack and occupation currently happening in Afghanistan? Sign up, Osama needs finding (as you are all bitching about so much) and the army NEEDS you to help. Go now.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:52 pmPeople love to say “oh, it could never happen”.
But history I’m afraid says otherwise.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:53 pmThe illegal attack and occupation currently happening in Afghanistan? Sign up, Osama needs finding (as you are all bitching about so much) and the army NEEDS you to help. Go now.
Comment by Man
Sorry, son, but that makes NO sense what so ever. If you’re going to try and be sarcastic, the comment HAS to make some sort of sense.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:54 pmBartlebee,
Wasn’t pointing out the flaws in your statement. I do know, that NK has detonated nuclear bombs. The ICBM test was a failure, at least as it was reported. The missile didn’t go anywhere near the range I am sure Kim would have hoped for. He is however, unstable, and an egomaniac. He could cause lots of problems if he completely went over the edge.
I was mostly pointing out to CTV1, that the situation in NK, and Iraq are not even remotely similar.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:57 pmAnd for those right wingers who love to say, “yea but we’d just nuke em“, news flash.
Russia has TWICE as many ICBM’s ready to go as the US. Russia has approximately 15,000 armed warheads compared to about 7,000 of ours.
We are not the superpower the right thinks we are. If it went nuke, we’d all lose, and the world would become just another dead moon orbiting our sun.
Of course to a neocon, thats probably a good thing.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pmSorry, son, but that makes NO sense what so ever. If you’re going to try and be sarcastic, the comment HAS to make some sort of sense.
Sorry boy, maybe you just cant understand it. Liberals are lovin’ that war, Im not sure why you separate it and Iraq, so I figured you would be just itchin to get in there and help get it finished.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:00 pmThe ICBM test was a failure, at least as it was reported. The missile didn’t go anywhere near the range I am sure Kim would have hoped for.
Comment by Krazny — June 25, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Was this a fact you thought I was unaware of? Have I given you the impression I am not aware of North Korea’s sitution?
Who cares that it failed? ALL of our early tests failed too. Remember Bikini Beach? How many failed launches did we have until we got it right?
The only important issue here, is that he did launch them,, and did detonate them. The fact that they failed just means he’s that much closer to success.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pmLiberals are lovin’ that war,
Comment by woMan — June 25, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
No skippy, loving war is your parties schtick.
Get your facts straight next time before opening your mouth and you won’t look so stupid.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:04 pmWait one second…
Didn’t all the smart people involved in this discussion advocate the redeployment to begin in September, 2007? What’s this nonsense about starting the redeployment in another year?
I hear the ‘genocidal regime’ clap echoing through the excuse-makers, but it’s not true! With the brutal dictator in place, there was no genocidal regime. How much worse could it be with the Iraq parliament in place?
When will the snowball stop rolling? First, the progressive press adopts the existence of Al Queda, then the existence of Al Queda in Iraq, then the Dems write another blank check for the war, now one of the leading voices for progress in the effort to end the war starts slipping the date for withdrawal by a whole year.
This is like an idealogical fun house. Once you think you know what’s going on, you realize that everyone is swimming in Kool-Aid.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:06 pmIf Bush invades Iran, we may see the trigger to WW3.
Thats the real issue here.
Just because Condi Rice doesn’t listen to what the Chinese and Russians are saying, doesn’t mean I’m not.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:06 pmSorry boy, maybe you just cant understand it. Liberals are lovin’ that war, Im not sure why you separate it and Iraq, so I figured you would be just itchin to get in there and help get it finished.
Comment by Man
There, there there, Li’l Man. Clearly, coherent logic is not one of your strong points. I guess when you spend all your time hiding in your mother’s basement, no one ever calls you on these things. Perhaps there’s an on-line class you can sign up for, Trolling 101 (not the one taught by Mark Foley…). You keep tryin’, Li’l Feller… you’ll get there.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:07 pmGiven the cozy relationship between, Iran, Russia, and China; an Iran invasion, could lead to severe damage to the US economy, and as you stated ignite WWIII. While a good portion of our military is within easy striking distance of both Russian, and China.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:10 pmSorry boy, maybe you just cant understand it.
Comment by Man — June 25, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Of course he doesn’t understand it: You make no sense whatsoever. In either post.
Liberals are lovin’ that war
Deluded neocon twits: Most in this blog opposed the war before it even started, but now we are accused of “loving that war”? It is any wonder these brain-dead halfwits are still in full support of their Dear (mis)Leader?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:13 pmRussia and China combined right now have 3 quarters of a million trained, well equipped troops ready to meet go.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
3 quarters of a million? I wouldn’t be surprised if the Chines alone had 10 or 20 times that many soldiers.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:15 pmGiven the cozy relationship between, Iran, Russia, and China; an Iran invasion, could lead to severe damage to the US economy, and as you stated ignite WWIII. While a good portion of our military is within easy striking distance of both Russian, and China.
Comment by Krazny — June 25, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Thats exactly right.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pmChina has a huge standing army, but infantry don’t mean squat if you can’t transport them. I sincerely doubt, that the Chinese will somehow be able to march over the pole to come after us. As for transport ships, I think our navy generally speaking is far more powerful then either the Russian, or Chinese navy. A direct attack upon US soil, is pretty far fetched.
An economic attack would be far more likely. De-value the dollar, and impovrish the nation.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:23 pm“Not to interject reality or anything, but the situation in Iraq, has zero resemblance to the situation in Korea. Korea, has a marked DMZ, and the South Koreans, have little or no interest in being controlled by the nutcase up north. Iraq has no clearly defined borders or areas, and has sectarian, and tribal issues. They just don’t match up.”
Comment by Krazny
That’s why Biden’s suggestion to split the country into four regions could make this work. Once the “clearly defined” borders are in place, the U.S. can maintain a strategic, long-term presence. Once the violence is quelled and the terrorist bomb-strappers are nuked – and I hope they will be – the U.S. can exert its positive influence and spread full prosperity throughout the region. This will also make the liberals look stupid, as they are pessimistic nut-cases, and put them in the minority for the next 30 years. There’s still a chance this can work despite all the sacrifices.
“U.S. Forces Iraq” – it’s possibly a good idea.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:24 pm3 quarters of a million? I wouldn’t be surprised if the Chines alone had 10 or 20 times that many soldiers.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 25, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
Thats a good point ROS. The “Peoples Liberation Army” (I know, ironic isn’t it?) is estimated somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 million strong, and the US Naval envoy reported a few years back that they believed as many as 20 million “ready reservists” were avaiable, althogh most it is believe are untrained and ill prepared for combat.
My figures are estimates based on current actual trained, equipped and ready to go troops, in the current standing army as are being publically reported by both nations and our observers.
One things for sure, they could really do some damage if they so chose. (Imagine China calling in our debt at the same time they attack our forces in the middle east). We are not the great superpower everyone thinks. Sure we have advanced stuff, but we still can’t shoot down an ICBM. With roughly 15,000 pointed our way, I’d say we’d better think before letting the right wing punks shoot their big fat mouths off again, before we end up with a real ball game.
Because right now, bases are loaded.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:25 pmThat’s exactly what is going to happen if we don’t get these idiots in our country to TALK instead of TELL. We’re in no position to tell anyone to do anything. We can’t take the “higher road” any longer because we now say torture is good and citizens rights are bad.
We’ve become what we are supposedly fighting for.
Oh, and NK has said they not only have nukes but that they can reach California.
I don’t know about anyone else, but WWIII does and should scare the $hit out of all of us. Too many countries have nukes. And should WWIII take place, you better bet your a$$ that it’s going to take place on US soil.
And I can’t even venture to guess what the end result looks like (assuming we don’t fry the entire world into a zillion years of nothingness a la Mad Max)…can you?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:26 pmChina has a huge standing army, but infantry don’t mean squat if you can’t transport them. I sincerely doubt, that the Chinese will somehow be able to march over the pole to come after us.
Comment by Krazny — June 25, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
You haven’t been paying attention to well Kraz. Where did I talk about China transporting troops to the US?
We are not talking about that scenario, so it would be pointless for me to respond further, other than to direct you back to my posts for a second read, as you clearly didn’t read them the first time.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pmThe dollar is already devalued. We are in debt up to our eyeballs and I am not sure how that is going to get paid down. They want to trade oil on Euros now, not dollars. If any country started to call in its debt markers, then what?
We are already in another great depression, but most people go on with their lives living on credit. Savings are at the lowest levels since the depression. The things that led up to the depression have and are happening again.
Another case of too few people seeing and too few people caring.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:28 pmThis will also make the liberals look stupid, as they are pessimistic nut-cases, and put them in the minority for the next 30 years. There’s still a chance this can work despite all the sacrifices.
“U.S. Forces Iraq†– it’s possibly a good idea.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1
Uh, Lil CT? Your Deciderer-In-Chief declared partitioning to not be an option months and months ago. Partition now and you don’t make “libruls” look bad. You couldn’t possibly do or say anything to make us a minority for the next 30 years.
As for “sacrifices”, what do you do, go shopping and buy the Collector’s Edition of “Barnyard Babes, Vol 1-30″?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pmInstead of trying to find an opposing view to the very real and very threatening scenario I just posted Krazny, why don’t you try comprehending what I am saying?
I am not trying to be insulting here, and no insult is meant, but it seems invariably that whenever I mention this real possibility someone always comes in and tries to turn it into a discussion on an attack on our homeland, which is RIDICULOUS.
Of COURSE China isn’t going to transport soldiers here. Why would they?
A. They know we’d launch the nukes if they did, so it will never happen.
B. We’re already in their back yard now.
Why play an away game when the visiting team is already on your turf?
Clear it up any?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pmWhy play an away game when the visiting team is already on your turf?
Clear it up any?
Comment by BARTLEBEE
The Chinese don’t have to attack the US. They’d just be destroying real estate they already own (Thank you, oh Great Deciderer!!!). Remember when the Chinese navy ran naval exercises last yr in a part of the Sea of Japan that’s disputed territory between them and Japan?
What did the US do? Nothing. (We’re tied down in this little conflict in the Middle East, see?)
June 25th, 2007 at 1:49 pmEvery day we stay in Iraq, we are getting closer and closer to a real confrontation with Russia\China and Iran. If that occurs, then there is no doubt in my mind that they will coordinate with Kim Jong Ill, so that his 2 million troops and massive artillery batteries will wipe out and overrun our 38,400 troops stationed on the DMZ.
We could see a total military collapse in a matter of weeks if Bush is permitted to continue to pick on the other little children on the playground of the middle east.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:50 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity
You’re a minority now. Few think highly of Congress now, so your slim token majority looks to be temporary.
“You couldn’t possibly do or say anything to make us a minority for the next 30 years.”
When Hillary starts goofing really badly as President, it will be November 1994 all over again. I can’t wait.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:51 pmRemember when the Chinese navy ran naval exercises last yr in a part of the Sea of Japan that’s disputed territory between them and Japan?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — June 25, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
I sure do ROS. I also remember the FIRST EVER joint tactical war games operations back in early 04, in response to our invasion of Iraq, where the Chinese military and the Russian military for the first time in history launched a massive mock invasion which was designed according to the Chinese Defense Minister, “to stabilize a fictional country”.
Hmmm.
Now where’s there a country close to them that needs “stablizing”?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:52 pmWhen Hillary starts goofing really badly as President, it will be November 1994 all over again. I can’t wait.
Comment by Composter V-1 — June 25, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Says the idiot in the wings.
No genius. Hilary will not be president, so your wish is not granted.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:00 pmDo you guys honestly think the US could never be invaded?
June 25th, 2007 at 2:01 pmWell MsJoanne, a lot would have to happen for that to occur, and there’d have to be a reason with a goal in mind, and there exists no such reason or goals. Also they know if they did, their country would be flattened within an hour by nuclear devastation, so they’d have to be willing to sacrifice their entire country to do it.
Also, it would do China no good to launch an invasion with a million or two troops. Americans have guns, and there are 399 Million of us, so invading the US would be as stupid as, oh say, us invading Iraq. We would be unmanageable.
I for one can be a real little terror.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pmBut that doesn’t mean they don’t have a motive for going to war with us on their turf. We placed the best and best equipped of our forces right in their back yard. They don’t need to do much to put half to 3 quarters of a million troops right next door to them in Iran or thereabouts, and coupled with Iran’s 250,000 strong crack military, launch an all out assault to “Liberate the People of Iraq from the invading aggressors”.
That is a scenario we are drawing closer to with each passing day we remain in Iraq.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:07 pmTo me, the fact that for the FIRST TIME IN WORLD HISTORY, China and Russia have JOINED FORCES to create their own military superpower is the most important development of the new century.
The fact that it was done in response to George W Bush’s new “pre-emptive” war strategy makes it the most dangerous development of the new century.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:10 pmSays the idiot in the wings.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Thanks for saving me the effort, Bartlebee. My carpal tunnel syndrome is starting to bark. It’s hard work Bit*h-slapping trolls out of their Depends.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pmNo problem ROS. In fact it’s my pleasure.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pmScrivening has its own rewards, indeed.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:16 pmBartlebee, I am sure you can be. You’re quite the pistol here. :)
I couldn’t let it pass that we, as a country, could ever think IT’S IMPOSSIBLE for us to be invaded.
I thought it was impossible that the US would ever be considered a rogue state.
I thought it was impossible that the president or vice president could easily get away with treason.
I thought it was impossible that we would ever kill hundreds of thousands of people because we wanted something that they have (christ, as I wrote that it made me think of a f*cking 3 year old going GIMME, MINE!)
I doubt it would happen, I think we would be economically descimated first (which is scary, because, who pays for these things? Certainly not Bush and his rich friends (just as Saddam didn’t pay, the people did), but the possibility of the US being invaded isn’t science fiction – no more than the things I thought impossible which happened.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:21 pm“No genius. Hilary will not be president, so your wish is not granted.”
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Well, that’s odd. Then which other liberal would you like in the White House that would cause the Congress to become 100% Republican? Republicans do love a thick, juicy steak.
You might have a shot at Barack, but he would have to be careful not to make his loony state completely obvious. The Republicans do have a shot at unraveling him, you know.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:30 pmHighly Flawed Plan,
June 25th, 2007 at 2:32 pmI agree that the intentional escalation of the US-manufactured civil war should stop. The “American Progress†plan would be highly preferable to the Cheney + Neocon + Big Oil plan which has not had a grain of good faith since its incubation almost twenty years ago. It, however, would be difficult to be worse. The “American Progress†plan however is also in violation of international law and would also cause the death of civilians in the 100s of thousands (as the similar Reagan campaign of terrorism throughout Central America did in the 1980s.)
The only moral course and the one that would be in the best interests of both the United States (and the American people) and the Iraqi people is immediate and total withdrawal from the region. This is an obvious and critical prerequisite for any chance of success in the formation of good faith international coalition to establish peace and security in the region.
The “American Progress†would result in massive suffering, is based on false premises, and seems to be not much more than a political calculation to reduce resistance by the American public by the mirage of both minimizing US casualties and moving to higher moral ground, while at the same time satisfying big money (the massive War Profiteering sector, predatory Energy corps, and the big banking, globalization, corporatcracy crowd).
1. The plan prefaces with the assertion that Iran is our greatest rival in the region. (a) That the US is Iran’s greatest enemy is clear to everyone, but Iran claims to want peace with all countries including both Israel and the US. Iran’s claim is far more credible. They have not attacked another country in over two centuries (the US has invaded over 100 in one century, not including WWII). (b) As even general Pace admitted, there is no clear evidence that Iran is doing anything to arm or directly aid those attacking US forces. (c) Ahmadinejad never said that he wanted to wipe Israel off the map or anything similar to that. The audio of his speech is still available and virtually all of the experts translating it say the meaning being foisted on us is a clear fabrication. Also, he never mentioned the words: Israel, map or wipe. (d) As even the IAEA notes, there is no clear evidence that Iran is now or has ever had a nuclear weapons program or desired to have one.
2. The plan redeploys US forces within the region …freeing them for other “critical missions†within the areaâ€. This would also be in violation of international law and strongly hints at attacking Iran.
3. Diplomacy is essential and is included in the plan, but the plan is for this to be done while the listed countries have a gun at their head, being completely surrounded with massive US fire power posing an existential and imminent threat. It is not possible to have good faith diplomacy or negotiation is that setting any more than it is possible to have freedom, democracy, or soverignty under brutal military occupation. The plan continues the mafia style extortion and protection racket that the republicans have championed for 40 years.
4. The part about taking an active role in solving the tyranny over Palestinians and ongoing violence is right on target. We should begin good faith efforts for the first time. To show good faith we should begin by stopping the arming of the sides, stop the “False flag†attacks and the other black ops aimed at sabotaging both governments and all genuine attempts at peace.
I’ll stop now , the comment has grown too large. There is a mountain of additional evidence and pertinent history to support these points should anyone ask. Please come up with a less disingenuous plan.
Sincerely, from one who both loves their country and believes in the principles of humanity and simple decency (the second being pre-requisite for the first). JK
I couldn’t let it pass that we, as a country, could ever think IT’S IMPOSSIBLE for us to be invaded.
Comment by MsJoanne — June 25, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
You’re smart lady MsJoanne, so consider this.
IF the new Chinese\Russo alliance decided to actually invade the US, then they would be delivering into our hands a best case scenario for us.
We could launch our nukes at their countries and obliterate them, WITHOUT fear of retaliation.
After all, if their armies are over here chasing rednecks through the Ozarks, and fighting the crips and the bloods in Compton, then they can’t very well launch a nuclear strike on the US. Not without wiping out their own combined forces.
It won’t happen. There is no scenario where they’d invade the US without first destroying our nukes. And thats never gonna happen, because half of them are under the sea on subs.
There is just no incentive for them to do it.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:41 pmWell, that’s odd. Then which other liberal would you like in the White House that would cause the Congress to become 100% Republican?
Comment by Composte pile — June 25, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
What are you dumb or just stupid? Who in here is chanting “Hilary in 08″?You can’t just invent positions for us and then argue them McCarthy.
When we want you’re opinion, we’ll give it to you.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pmJK, brilliant post!!
I recently read about the Ahmadinejad’s quotes being not only misquoted but taken out of context, which I suppose shouldn’t surprise me because I doubt that anyone in the MSM actually cares about truth and I doubt further that they have any Farsi speaking people who give a $hit about truth.
Ever read the letter Ahmadinejad sent to Bush some years ago? Ahmadinejad sounded much more reasoned than Bush often sounds. And I have to say, when THAT happens, we’re in worse shape than we ever could imagine.
You can take any sentence and turn it into something awful (like if you took my middle sentence in the last paragraph as a stand alone, it would appear that I am pro Iran. Welcome to the wonderful “reporting” a la Fox.) And when it’s done in another language…AND that few people really give a crap about the truth anyway…
Sad, sad, sad state of our country.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pmTo be honest Bartlbee, I don’t think from the Chinese persepective, there is much of an incentive to attack US troops in Iraq. They may not like us there, but we are still there largest trading partner, and rely on us to buy their cheap crap. It works both ways.
in response to splitting up Iraq into seperate pieces, Also not going to happen. An independant Kurd grouping would incite Kurds in Iran, and Turkey to push for even harder for independence. Turkey as an ally will do everything it can to stop such a move.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pmBartlebee, I agree with you, I am not saying that. What I am trying to get across is that you can’t ever say something won’t happen. How reasonable are the actions we (our country) are taking now?
I’m not disagreeing, and I highly respect your thoughts and opinions, but I think we need to be aware and never say never.
Oh, and someone already beat you to the opinons for the $hit pile. He’s been watching too much Fox (as in sly as).
June 25th, 2007 at 2:49 pmThe Republicans do have a shot at unraveling him, you know.
Comment by Compost-troller — June 25, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
Newsflash skippy. The only thing the republicans have a shot of unravelling is the RNC,and if they keep employing knuckleheads like you, that will be a real scenario come November next year.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:51 pm“What are you dumb or just stupid? Who in here is chanting “Hilary in 08″?You can’t just invent positions for us and then argue them McCarthy.”
“When we want you’re opinion, we’ll give it to you.”
That doesn’t make any sense.
Most in here are chanting for Hillary. I look forward to conservatives handing you your a** for the next 20 years. We’ve held power this long, we couldn’t be so stupid or dumb, after all.
You’re all hype. Bring it on, terrorist.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:54 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
Keep dreaming. You have a temporary, bread-crumb, weak majority, with spineless retards representing you.
I won’t accept your overrated assessment.
Case dismissed.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:56 pmBartlebee, I agree with you, I am not saying that. What I am trying to get across is that you can’t ever say something won’t happen. How reasonable are the actions we (our country) are taking now?
Comment by MsJoanne — June 25, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
Ok, well we agree to disagree on this one, because truly I don’t see it happening. We’ve too many nukes around the world for a country to feel safe putting their troops on our homeland. If they did, it would be an instant death warrant, and they know it.
We could launch our nukes without fear of retaliation, because their armies would be over here, and they could not retaliate without destroying their own forces. So they’d be putting themselves in an impossible situation, and a no win situation.
It might happen if somehow the took out every one of our nuclear subs and remote stations, and ever nuke in our silo’s here on US soil, but that would have to happen first, and I don’t see any way for that to happen.
Of course I will agree with you that anythings possible, but I am talking about real world scenarios, not “what ifs”. And right now the real world scenario we are facing IF we remain in Iraq, or try to invade Iran, is the total destruction and capture of our US forces in the middle east and on the Korean DMZ.
That could happen next week, and I am not blowing steam on this one.
But I hear you.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:57 pmI won’t accept your overrated assessment.
Case dismissed.
Comment by Steaming Compost pile — June 25, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
Good. You keep on believing that too.
Then we’ll get an even dumber expression on that mug of yours come November 08.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:58 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
Are you pissed because Conservatives have been taking fat dumps on your face since before I was even born?
Conservatives are in control, I’m in control here. Respect the authority.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:59 pmI do believe that if we invade Iran that it would trigger WWIII.
We are not a popular nation right now. And if we decide to go down that path, the results would be catastrophic. The how’s and when’s…who knows. But it’s certainly not something I want to explore.
Our government goes into these things with too little intelligence (snicker). They don’t think about realities, even when presented to them on a silver platter.
Quagmire in Iraq? Yup. God only knows what elsewhere.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:00 pm“Then we’ll get an even dumber expression on that mug of yours come November 08.”
It’s all short-lived, token. It’s only based on the natural discontent of war. It’s not because Democrats have anything exciting overall to offer.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:01 pmPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT FEED THE TROLLS!
June 25th, 2007 at 3:01 pmMost in here are chanting for Hillary.
Comment by Composter — June 25, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
Yea? Name ONE junior.
I see no one in here crying Hilary. In fact, if you go over to Huffpost you’ll see they’re actively working against her.
But no worries. The filth you call a party is so badly hated here in America that we could run Michael Moore with Cindy Sheehan on the veep ticket and still beat any of the peices of shit you have to choose from.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:01 pmIt’s not because Democrats have anything exciting overall to offer.
Comment by stinking Compost pile — June 25, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Other than brains, which admittedly is a lost virtue on your band of inbred bumpkins.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pmConservatives are in control, I’m in control here. Respect the authority.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 25, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Okay nod, and agree, nod and agree, smile and back away slowly
June 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pmPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT FEED THE TROLLS!
Comment by MsJoanne — June 25, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
Don’t worry MsJoanne.
He won’t be able to keep any of it down.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:03 pmI do believe that if we invade Iran that it would trigger WWIII.
Comment by MsJoanne — June 25, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
Well then you’ve changed your position, because earlier you said you agreed with me. Either way I am not saying that it WILL. I am saying that it easily could. And if you go back and read my posts, you will see how that is a VERY REAL and EVER IMPENDING scenario.
China and Russia did not just get together one day and decide to spend billions merging their militaries, and the joint war games they played to “STABILIZE A FICTIONAL COUNTRY” was not just for nothing.
They sent a strong message to the US (one that is apparently missed on most of us) that if we continue to take a crap in their back yard, their people are going to come in and clean it up.
And they’ve got the pooper scoopers to do it.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:07 pmIf China and Russia defeated our military and effectively “liberated the people of Iraq” from us, the invading aggressors, they’d move into the next decade as the new superpower of the world.
They know it, and so should we.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pmIt’s all short-lived, token. It’s only based on the natural discontent of war. It’s not because Democrats have anything exciting overall to offer.
Comment by CompTROLLER V-1 — June 25, 2007 @ 3:01 pm
I would rather have the party of no ideas running things, then the party of bad ideas. At least the Dems won’t try to jumpstart the rapture
June 25th, 2007 at 3:08 pmChina’s star as the new super power is already rising. Whether they defeat the US through direct military operations, or just continue to bankroll us into poverty, the rise of red china as a superpower is almost assured. The middle east would rather deal with them, as would most of the rest of the world at this point.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:11 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
We’re keeping it down now. Your party is hype, our party is action. Out of jealousy, your party uses the media to slander those who are successful against you, spout ludicrously false drivel.
I think you have some explaining to do for being a flat loser. If your party had any brains, it wouldn’t have the 3-3044 score that it presently has.
Again, you’re hype, I’m action. Conservatives are in control, and that streak isn’t likely to break soon, or very often.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:11 pmAnd what I mean by WW3 is the engagement of mulitple nations.
As I clearly stated earlier, if the Russian Chinese alliance decided to route our forces in Iraq, or deter an Iranian invasion, then there is no doubt that it would be coordinated with North Korea, who would quickly overrrun the DMZ, capturing and or killing 38,400 American troops, who are largely unprotected.
Where Europe would be in all this I am not sure, but with the british discontent for Blair and the pre-emptive war policy, my guess is either on the fence, or against us.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:11 pm“Yea? Name ONE junior.”
Comment by BARTLEBUM
It’s official. You’re braindead.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:12 pmI think you have some explaining to do for being a flat loser. If your party had any brains, it wouldn’t have the 3-3044 score that it presently has.
Again, you’re hype, I’m action. Conservatives are in control, and that streak isn’t likely to break soon, or very often.
Comment by Inbred — June 25, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Conservatives are not in control genius. Or can’t you count?
Second, its not “my party”. I am not a democrat and never claimed to be.
I am supporting them for one reason and one reason alone.
The enemy of my enemy, is my friend.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:13 pmChina’s star as the new super power is already rising. Whether they defeat the US through direct military operations, or just continue to bankroll us into poverty, the rise of red china as a superpower is almost assured. The middle east would rather deal with them, as would most of the rest of the world at this point.
Comment by Krazny — June 25, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
That is unfortunately quite accurate.
You’ve got vision, and the rest of the worlds wearing bi-focals.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:14 pmWe’re keeping it down now.
Comment by CompostTROLL — June 25, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
Good. I’ve got some more for you.
Open wide…..
June 25th, 2007 at 3:16 pmKeep in mind 100 years ago British supremacy was assured world wide. While the UK is still powerful, with a good industrial base, and standard of living, they are not the superpower they once were.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:19 pmWell if I get one message and only one message across Kraz, its that the recent merger of the Russian and Chinese military is the most significant event of the 21st century.
And the fact that it was done IN RESPONSE TO our new policy of pre-emptive war makes it the most DANGEROUS development of the 21’st century.
The news isn’t talking about it. The press ignores it. Everyones crying about silly little terrorists, who at most can kill a few thousand of us with a dirty bomb. We’ve got real threats out there. And the reason we have them is simple.
TOUGH TALK. DUMB ACTION.
We need to go back to making FRIENDS, and not turning the entire world against us.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pmGeorge W Bush, and his policy of pre-emptive war has made the US about a thousand times less safe then we were pre 03.
Terrorists can’t really hurt us if we don’t panic.
But destroying decades of alliance building and making friends of our enemies because of a few cowards like Bush and the wimps that follow him can do some real damage. The kind of damage you don’t recover from.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:26 pmBartlebee…did I just hear an OPEN WIDE FOR CHUNKY song playing in the background? :-D
China could bring our economy to its knees. We’re already exporting most of our manufacturing jobs there. Their buying power will far surpass us and we will get to the point where we’re barely a consideration when doing product development. I work with so many companies these days who have manufacturing facilities all over Asia.
I can’t imagine what our admin thinks is going to happen. People can only shop (thus support our economy) when they work. When you work for food, shelter and gas how do you shop, hence support our own economy? Christ, I don’t have an MBA and that’s simple enough for me to get. We, as a country, already live on debt.
All these missteps this administration has thrown our way will do nothing but make life a misery here in our own country.
And yet those idiotic 26% support it…even when it’s in most of their own worst interest. I doubt that all 26% of those schmucks own companies are are prospering or will prosper from this. They keep listening to Rush, Hannity or O’Reilly thinking they are the little guy. Wake up morons, those guys make millions. DO THEY? Hardly.
Shoot themselves in the foot and enjoy it…that’s what they are doing.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:27 pm“It would also have disasterous effects on the morale in the war on terror. Redeploying troops out of Iraq would mean a serious loss of face for the western world.
Comment by MAF54″
Please explain what the “war on terror” is. I have never been able to figure that one out. And, you are quite correct when you say the leaving Iraq would mean a serious loss of face in the western world. We need to continue to be the bully of the world so that all the other countries will respect us. That’s working so well for us, isn’t it.
You are a sad specimen of a human being if you think that sending our children to Iraq to be slaughtered is necessary so that the US doesn’t “lose face”.
There is a special place in hell reserved for you and your ilk. You will love it there. You will be able to play through eternity with all your other friends including the Bush Crime family and all the right wing talking heads. You can all sit around and whine and complain about how all those “libtards” took back the government and spoiled all your grand plans. Hopefully you will be meeting your maker soon since you are certainly not a positive force in the universe.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:28 pmPlease explain what the “war on terror†is.
Comment by Katie — June 25, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
War on terror = RED HERRING
June 25th, 2007 at 3:35 pmNot to overpost, but I feel the need to state this again.
Terrorists can’t really hurt us if we don’t panic.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:37 pmYes Bart,
June 25th, 2007 at 3:54 pmBut they (Rep and Dem) now know how to control us through fear, and the mass-majority is too dumbed-down to know better.
Terrorists can’t really hurt us if we don’t panic. Bartlebee
But they (Rep and Dem) now know how to control us through fear, and the mass-majority is too dumbed-down to know better. Not Canadian
Brilliantly said both of you!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:10 pmTerrorists can’t really hurt us if we don’t panic.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Absolutely. Well said.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pmhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070625/ap_on_re_eu/nireland_troops_withdraw
Interesting story about combating terrorism in the UK
June 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pmMsJoanne,
June 25th, 2007 at 9:00 pmThanks for the compliment on my post. I think you are on target with most of what’s in your posts. Yes I did read the thoughtful in depth letter to Bush from Ahmadinejad, sent I believe soon after the US invasion of Iraq offering help for both Afghanistan and Iraq. It explained the common interests and if the Bush regime had be acting in good faith (not) and had accepted Ahmadinejad’s offer, there would likely be relative peace today and our forces could have been home a year or more ago. Unfortunately, even though you, I, and the Bush regime knew Iraq and Iran posed no threat to the US and that their people wished us no harm, claims to the contrary were calculated pretenses. The goal from the beginning was permanent US military tyranny for the extended region, brutal pacification and enslavement of the civilian populations, the takeover of their economies, control of the flow of the oil and gas and the ability to maximize its price. Like refineries, the pipelines are choke points in the system with the goal being able to limit flow and exert hegemony over all the countries, including our European allies.
There is no war on Terror. The threat was manufactured to replace the exaggerated “communist†threat when the cold war ended. The goal is never ending war enabling never ending tyranny at home and around the world.
I agree with you on the extreme vulnerability of our economy and currency as well as the sick relationship with China while hopes for real freedom, human rights, democracy and self-determination in both countries is crushed by the growing juggernaught of corporatcracy.
In terms of military threat to the US, I think it is very real and comes from within. Half of the armed forces in Iraq are now paramilitary contractors, most owned and run by dangerous right wing forces. Over half of the intelligence in the US is now contracted out. Corporations are building the massive net of detention (concentration) camps across the country which cumulatively could divide and imprison millions of Americans. Combine the with the ongoing “Total Information Awareness†and other secret ops including the theft of multiple massive databases every week with the private militaries based in this country outside the control of Congress and the courts and the extreme risk becomes apparent. If Bush or anyone else should execute the plans on the shelf for Marshall Law (dictatorship), even a military coup to save our republic would likely fail because they could neutralize the command and control of the US military (and their families) in days. This country has never been (since 1812) faced with such a clear and present existential danger.
We urgently need multiple impeachments and the prosecution of those who have been repeatedly pre-emptively pardoned for the past 33 years. We need a re-do of the Church committee hearings, but this time on steroids. And we need to make sure that history is not hidden again.
BARTLEBEE ,
June 25th, 2007 at 9:45 pmYou want an American defeat correct?
1st of all your scenario happened, a Fascist American government would come to power in a generation rebuild the US Army and launch a war of revenge.
2nd US Airpower would decimate the Chinese and Russian armies.
If they have to transposrt it can be shot down.
They’re not invincible.
The advantage they have is Leftists like you that would cheer and support them.
You’re a traitor!
Marco. Wow. First, take an English class bud. Second. Read some history. Do some research on the subject. Any war with China or Russia and your squid brain will be blown up in a nano-second. So, shut the _uck up and get out of the way. Or, are you 7 ? In that case, keep it up kid but ya bother me.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:27 pm” … billions of dollars of U.S. military assistance is going to some of the closest allies of America’s greatest rival in the Middle East — Iran. The Shi’a-dominated Iraqi national army and security forces could quite quickly turn their weapons against American troops and allies in the region.”
This is exactly what happend to us with Afghanistan. We armed the Afghans to the hilt and then thsoe who are fighting us now are using our training and have used our arms against us. History repeating itself has turned into a bad joke.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:54 amSteamboater,
Other than the US crimes against Iran including threats, invasion with special forces, acts of terrorism through paramilitaries, what is your evidence that Iran is a rival at all, much less “America’s greatest rival in the Middle East” ?
See # 94 above.
All of the accusations, lies, disinformation and other falsifications about Iran hurled thus far (,shades of Iraq,) have been discredited, debunked, and exposed for the false pretence that they are.
Other than that, you are correct about Afghanistan but you fail to mention that this would not be the case without our invasions (”war crimes”).
June 26th, 2007 at 1:16 pmJK
I heard Bush and the Republicans are coming out with an Iraq War Tax so all good Americans can show their patriotism and “put their money where their mouth is” Can anybody give me any detials on this?
June 27th, 2007 at 1:40 pm