79.
By on Jun 27th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
79.
Percentage of Americans who believe openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the military, versus 18 percent who do not, according to a new CNN poll. Other notable findings:
– A majority of Americans support either gay marriage (24 percent) or civil unions (27 percent), compared to 43 percent who would not support either.
– 57 percent say gay and lesbian couples should have the legal right to adopt children, versus 40 percent who say they should not.
– 56 percent said they “do not believe sexual orientation can be changed,” up from 45 percent in 2001 and 36 percent in 1998.
View Most Popular
Advertisement
What We're About
What We're Fighting For
What We're Fighting Against
Featured
Subscribe to the Progress Report
Topic CloudView topics sorted by popularity
Afghanistan
Bachmann
Beck
Boehner
Bush
Cheney
Civil Rights
Congress
Corporate Ethics
Dobbs
Economy
Election
Energy
Environment
Ethics
Fox News
Gingrich
Global Warming
Hannity
Health Care
Immigration
International Relations
Iraq
Justice
Kristol
LGBT
Lieberman
Limbaugh
Maddow
McCain
Media
Military
Obama
Palin
Pelosi
Public Plan
Race
Radical Right
Religion
Sports
Steele
Stimulus
Tea Parties
Technology
Women's Rights
Visit Our Affiliated Sites
Reports
In-depth studies on select topics
Got a hot tip?
Have a hot news tip? We'd love to hear from you. Use the form below to send us the latest.
ArchivesBlog Roll
Yes, they will serve as a human shield.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:39 pmA person’s sexual orientation most certainly cannot be changed.
I really am surprized that some people out there do not believe it is in the brain/genes.
We need more education in the US.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pmGay, straight, bi, black, white, yellow, brown, red, male, female, young, or old.
All should have equal opportunity to serve their country in the military and murder, torture, and oppress on behalf of the American people!
More bright and shiny things. More diversion tactics.
And now let’s watch it work perfectly, again.
Progressive indeed.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:41 pmHuman rights apply to all humans.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:42 pmAs long as they aren’t entitled to grope other men (without consent) on base and get away with it, I don’t care if gays serve openly in the military.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:43 pmCT -
More troll crap.
Gays are not interested in straight men.
That’s just your fantasy talking.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:47 pmIs anyone allowed to openly grope anyone without their consent? Why would that be a particular caveat for gays any more than for anyone else serving, CT V_1?
June 27th, 2007 at 6:48 pmAs long as they aren’t entitled to grope other men (without consent) on base and get away with it, I don’t care if gays serve openly in the military.
Comment by CT V_1
No one is allowed to behave like that on base, CT.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmComment by trueblue — June 27, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
Comment by Candyce — June 27, 2007 @ 6:48 pm
Wow. Way to stir up some controversy with someone who agrees with you.
Progress indeed.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmNow we are going to get a lecture about sexual conduct from the party of Mark Foley, Ted Haggard and Rudy Giuliani.
Spare us.
-GSD
June 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmtrueblue, remember the percentage of people who don’t believe in evolution, how could we expect that they have any ability to THINK at all?
It makes much more sense to just listen to Tom Cruise, the holy father, or their own personal spaghetti monster.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmAs long as they aren’t entitled to grope other men (without consent) on base and get away with it, I don’t care if gays serve openly in the military.
Comment by CT V_1
No one is supposed to grope anyone else, anywhere else, without consent. Period.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:52 pmAnd they won’t need gas masked when they drop the new “Gay Bomb”.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:55 pmSee? Saves money. Fiscally conservative to keep Gays in military.
As long as they aren’t entitled to grope other men
That’s rediculous, you know this only happens in the NFL.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pmCT
stop fantasizing. Gays have no interest in straight men nor do they “grope” other men, that is ridiculous.
Hetero MEN do most of the groping, just ask any female.
There seems to be a disporportianate number of rethugs who are desperately homophobic. Of course homophobia is more about the person who is homophobic than it is about gays.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pmAll you closet homos who think being gay is a “choice” are the same stupids that think man coexisted with dinosaurs.
Dumb as rocks, one and all.
I bet the Apostle Daryll just got wood over this news…
June 27th, 2007 at 6:56 pmNo one is allowed to behave like that on base, CT.
Comment by Zooey
OK, that was just a quick gap I need to fill. Thanks, I support overturning the ban – fully.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:57 pmI’m a Republican that does believe that people who are homosexual should be allowed to serve openly in the military so long as the same rules regarding fraternization and sexual conduct apply equally to everyone regardless of their sexual orientation.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmWow. Way to stir up some controversy with someone who agrees with you.
Progress indeed.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES
That’s not agreement with me on anything. It’s insulting. I’m guessing you and CT V_1 are one and the same.
June 27th, 2007 at 6:58 pmThat’s not agreement with me on anything. It’s insulting. I’m guessing you and CT V_1 are one and the same.
Comment by Candyce — June 27, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Well, guess all you want!!!
June 27th, 2007 at 6:59 pmMsJoanne,
I can’t believe that there are still people who believe we are all inbreds from Adam and Eve. (Oh, after the “divorce” from Lillith, the first mate to Adam.)
June 27th, 2007 at 7:01 pmMsJoanne,
I can’t believe that there are still people who believe we are all inbreds from Adam and Eve. (Oh, after the “divorce†from Lillith, the first mate to Adam.)
Comment by trueblue
We’re from a broken family!? Waaaaaahhhh!
June 27th, 2007 at 7:04 pmLOL!
That’s funny, Zooey.
It’s also interesting that they discovered a 15th century BC Egyptian ruler today.
(That’s BEFORE Christ, right?)
Link
June 27th, 2007 at 7:08 pmWhy is the GOP still able to emotionally rule these topics? Mary Cheney and her lover Heather are celebrated in crystaline chandeliered parties, but somehow the Republicans are still able to publicly demonize gays. The public is overwhelmingly in support of gays in the military. Yet not a single Republican is, and somehow they still rule the issues and the media.
HOW DO THEY KEEP UP THE FACADE?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:10 pmZooey, that’s why we are all as dysfunctional. We come from family divided (Lillith), incest (if Adam and Caine were the only males on the planet…how did we populate it? If Caine wasn’t doing his mom, he was doing his sister), and murder (Caine and Abel).
Wow! That explains quite alot!
June 27th, 2007 at 7:12 pmdon’t forget Seth, MsJoanne…..
June 27th, 2007 at 7:14 pmScratch a homophobe, find teh ghey.
It’s as simple as that.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:19 pm#27 – -
?????
June 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pmWith so many obscurants in this nation, enlightenment will be slow coming. Oh well….I won’t be here long enough to see it, but I can dream.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pm#28, you haven’t noticed that the most rabid homophobes turn out to be deeply closeted?
I give you Pastor Ted!
June 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pmWow! That explains quite alot!
Comment by MsJoanne
Now I feel so dirty….
Heh.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pmPercentage of people who qualify as cowardly assholes because they are willing to denigrate others in order to make themselves feel morally superior: 100
June 27th, 2007 at 7:24 pm#23 – trueblue
Hatshepsut. Mondo cool!
June 27th, 2007 at 7:26 pmZooey, as long as you have someone to feel dirty with, act as they did in the bible. Bless you, my child.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmI have no problem if they let CT V_1 serve openly.
Where does he need to go to sign up?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:27 pmZooey, as long as you have someone to feel dirty with, act as they did in the bible. Bless you, my child.
Comment by MsJoanne
“An it harm none, do what ye will.” :-)
June 27th, 2007 at 7:33 pmThis is what I love about polls.
I do not think this. But I know how others think. Trust me.
Now. How many of the people polled agreed to put gays in the military because they know it would increase their chances of getting killed?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:33 pmIts totally cool that the girls are feeling a bit dirty today. I like that.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
Not that you would appreciate my service. Whether or not I could/should enlist is clearly a personal matter, not of your calling. Has nothing to do with debate here since I’ve already explained you and others off in previous posts. Your postings are redundant. Thanks.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmBart, people like him always talk tough but never DO anything. Just like all our lovely GOP’s warhawks whom have never served in the military. How many GOP have served…uhm, one maybe?
They talk tough…but see if McCain would go to Iraq with something less than a bloody battalion to support his dumb a$$. These morons are the same.
Every one of them posting here…go serve your country. From war hawk to chicken$hit. All hat, no cattle.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:35 pmI think I’m gay. Could you guys tell?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:36 pmNow. How many of the people polled agreed to put gays in the military because they know it would increase their chances of getting killed?
Comment by ForTruth — June 27, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
That figure one could assume would be in direct proportion to the number of standing trailer parks located within the sampling area.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:37 pm#28, you haven’t noticed that the most rabid homophobes turn out to be deeply closeted?
I give you Pastor Ted!
Comment by Apprentice to Darth Holden
I’m a little worked up over the trolls on TP, Apprentice.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I was clueless.
:P
June 27th, 2007 at 7:37 pmNot that you would appreciate my service. Whether or not I could/should enlist is clearly a personal matter, not of your calling. Has nothing to do with debate here since I’ve already explained you and others off in previous posts. Your postings are redundant. Thanks.
Comment by CT V_1 — June 27, 2007 @ 7:34 pm
You proceed from a false assumption sir.
I was merely stating that if you did want to go in the service and they ask then I won’t tell.
:D
June 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pmIf the draft is reinstated, these guys will finally own up to being gay – they spend so much time sucking each other off here every day.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:40 pmI think I’m gay. Could you guys tell?
Comment by unbelievable — June 27, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
I will tell only since you asked.,
Send me some pics of you in some steamy sex with another woman and I’ll get back to you.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:41 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
Well, point taken then. Sorry for the misinterpretation.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:42 pmnot that theres anything wrong with that….
June 27th, 2007 at 7:45 pmAn Army study found that gay soldiers are better than straight soldiers.
This means we should get the straights out of the Army and have a military comprised entirely of superior, gay warriors. Then maybe we could REALLY kick some butt.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:45 pmHow about if we stopped asking people what they did in the privacy of their own bedrooms?
How about that?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:47 pmIf they’re not fu#$king cows or kids, then who cares?
:|
And in truth, I’d be willing to look the other way on the cows, as long as they bought them dinner first.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:49 pmI wonder if it’s ok for a woman to get boned up the a$$ if she’s consenting. Kinda takes away from that gay sex “problem,” doesn’t it?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:50 pmI went to see “Ocean’s 13″ this weekend -except I must have misread the marquee, because it was actually “Ocean’s 13in.”. Well, I stayed and watched; I mean I had already paid and the guy did look a little like G Clooney…
Does that make me gay?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:51 pmYou know, PDA (Public Display of Affection) is off limits for heterosexual soldiers in uniform as well. I believe a general “look the other way” is pretty much standard policy for reunions on Tarmacs and so forth, but after the initial embrace, it’s hand’s off.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:54 pmDoes that make me gay?
Comment by unbelievable — June 27, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Did it move?
June 27th, 2007 at 7:55 pmDoes that make me gay?
Comment by unbelievable
_____________________
Or at least happy.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:56 pmMsJoanne, #51, unfortunately, it’s possible to interpret the UCMJ’s rules on sexual contact such that any sexual activity other than that between a married man and woman in the missionary position is illegal.
Which means that nearly everyone in uniform is probably in violation of the UCMJ.
June 27th, 2007 at 7:56 pm#49 How about if we stopped asking people what they did in the privacy of their own bedrooms?
How about that?
-Your Absolutely Right BARTLEBEE!
(btw -you wouldn’t happen to have any suggestions for getting rid of a dead horse would you? I think it’s time I got this thing out of my bedroom before my mom finds out).
June 27th, 2007 at 8:05 pmI wonder if it’s ok for a woman to get boned up the a$$ if she’s consenting.
Comment by MsJoanne — June 27, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
We should do lunch.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:07 pm(btw -you wouldn’t happen to have any suggestions for getting rid of a dead horse would you? I think it’s time I got this thing out of my bedroom before my mom finds out).
Comment by unbelievable — June 27, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Sure. One peice at a time.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:08 pmEven more about gays in the military? Great!
A major piece of legislation affecting union organizing goes down the tubes yesterday and barely receives mention on TP as an “and also†news bit in an article on immigration. But who cares about living wages, pensions, and the like? Much more important that gays serve OPENLY in the military.
Remember when “Don’t ask don’t tell†was a major “gay†victory? The recruiter won’t ask and you don’t have to tell. There are surely many, many gay people in the military today…just not openly. Sorry.
I’m a highly skilled union tradesman whom works on major construction jobs throughout the country. In over 20 years I have never known of an openly gay individual save one female ironworker. The job I’m on now has employed over 1000 tradespersons during its construction. I’m sure more than a handful of these people are gay. Why not openly? Don’t really know but I think it has something with not wanting to get the snot knocked out of them. Know that this is a very rough predominately male crowd performing very dangerous tasks… kinda like the military during peacetime.
Did anyone ever stop to think maybe the military is somewhat doing open gays a favor by not letting them in? Young homophobes (usually sexually confused themselves) tend to want to beat the crap out of gays…sad but unfortunately true. Americans perhaps need more sensitivity training before “gayness†is accepted as normal.
BTW… thanks for deleting my post in last nights gay military post TP. All I can say is the monitor that deleted the post is a coward. Truth hurt a little too much?
June 27th, 2007 at 8:09 pmGays in the military is an important issue because it is legalized discrimination, which means if they can discriminate against gays, they can discriminate against anyone.
Second, it is very important, because right now we are in a state of war with arab speaking nations, and we have a huge shortage of arab liguists, one reason being, is because dozens of them were discharged for being gay.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pmBart! LMFAO!
Anytime! (wink)
June 27th, 2007 at 8:17 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — June 27, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
I guess it’s important if you’re openly gay and want to serve. But I’d like to see what percentage of the American population this relates to… let alone the percentage of gay Americans who actually want to serve. Might this be considered a VERY special interest issue?
I just get frustrated when I see the American worker constantly and consistency sold down the road and few seem to notice or care…even here on TP.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:33 pmMycelium
The issue is important for ALL Americans because the policies which discriminate against homosexuals are based solely on a particular version of a particular religious belief.
Unfortunately here in Ohio, many of those American workers have seen fit to vote for the conservatives who sell them down the road, as you so aptly put it.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:37 pmBARTLEBEE and PLC
I get your points about discriminating against anyone. In an ideological sense I somewhat agree but I fail to see the depth of its importance compared to that of the plight of the middle class worker. And believe me…nobody feels more strongly about the separation of church and state than I do.
GAG (Gays, Abortion, and Guns) is what helped bring the GOP to power. The GOP was/is genius in twisting these emotional issues for political gain. Want to steal the union vote from the democrats? Convince them that if a democrat is elected he will take away your gun and allow a gay abortionist to rip a fetus out of your daughter because he hates Jesus.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:03 pmMight this be considered a VERY special interest issue?
Comment by Mycelium — June 27, 2007 @ 8:33 pm
Yes. A VERY special interest issue.
That issue? The security of the United States of America.
We have discharged close to 100 language experts from the Pentagons DLI, and other areas, who speak Farci and other arabic languages so desperately needed right now.
These men are highly trained and highly specialized, so yes, it is a special interest issue.
You bet it is.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:19 pmGAG (Gays, Abortion, and Guns) is what helped bring the GOP to power. The GOP was/is genius in twisting these emotional issues for political gain. Want to steal the union vote from the democrats? Convince them that if a democrat is elected he will take away your gun and allow a gay abortionist to rip a fetus out of your daughter because he hates Jesus.
Comment by Mycelium — June 27, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
Perhaps.
But we don’t pick the fights we think we can win.
We pick the fights that are worth fighting.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:21 pmWant to steal the union vote from the democrats? Convince them that if a democrat is elected he will take away your gun and allow a gay abortionist to rip a fetus out of your daughter because he hates Jesus.
Comment by Mycelium — June 27, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
Like taking candy from a baby!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 27th, 2007 at 9:23 pmBARTLEBEE,
I really don’t want to argue this point too much as I enjoy and agree with most of your posts. But a handful of linguists being booted from service is hardly the reason Iraq is what it is or the reason there are piles of untranslated documents that could affect security. To suggest this is kind of suggesting that all bilingual Arabs are gay.
I’m a Detroit native…a city that boasts the highest number of Arabs outside of Arab lands. I have never known an Arab who wasn’t bilingual. The military doing a poor job of recruiting Arab Americans is more the problem regarding national security than sexual preference.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pmIn over 20 years I have never known of an openly gay individual save one female ironworker. The job I’m on now has employed over 1000 tradespersons during its construction. I’m sure more than a handful of these people are gay. Why not openly? Don’t really know but I think it has something with not wanting to get the snot knocked out of them.
– Mycelium
Stereotypical bigotry…..
I served in the military and one of the people in my squad was/is gay.(not openly)
I doubt you would have lasted 10 seconds trying to knock the snot out of him.
He was the most baddass Airborne Ranger I have ever met.
He is out of service now, but He still runs every day, with a tractor tire dragging behind him, like there was no tire.
(yeah I keep in touch with my friends, even gay ones)
You, sir are full of sh*t.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:36 pmI think there was some name hijacking going on….
June 27th, 2007 at 9:42 pmWell then Wayne…why do YOU think the construction folks stay in the closet?
And I never said I want to knock the $hit out of anyone. I’m pretty gay tolerant…my brother is gay – he can and has knocked the $hit out of me.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:43 pmBARTLEBEE,
I really don’t want to argue this point too much as I enjoy and agree with most of your posts. But a handful of linguists being booted from service is hardly the reason Iraq is what it is or the reason there are piles of untranslated documents that could affect security. To suggest this is kind of suggesting that all bilingual Arabs are gay.
Comment by Mycelium — June 27, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
Sure you do. You started it after all, yelling at TP for posting this topic.
I did post something to show you that is just not a “handful” of linguists, but TP deleted it twice.
The facts are that 73 arabic linguists have been discharged from the Pentagons language group (DLI) for being gay, 37 of those since 911.
That is a huge number in this field. Claiming the militaries not recruiting enough is moot. We know that. But discharging this many, after spending millions to train them at these high tech institutes (they don’t just have to be bilingual, they have to also get secret clearances) is insane, and is a threat to national security, as hundreds of military analysts, commanders and officials have stated.
Why come in a thread on a topic you don’t like, and berate it?
I don’t like ANY talk about Paris Hilton.
So guess what?
I stay OUT of the Paris Hilton thread.
June 27th, 2007 at 9:47 pmmy brother is gay – he can and has knocked the $hit out of me.
Comment by Mycelium — June 27, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
:|
Thats more information than we require.
LOL, just kidding.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:09 pmWell then Wayne…why do YOU think the construction folks stay in the closet?
Comment by Mycelium
Why most gays stay in the closet or keep their private life private in almost every job field?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:16 pmBecause of bigotry, also outright hatred and discrimination from homophobes and religious extremist morons.
Same reason gays in the military keep it to themselves.
If we allow the religious right to dictate human sexuality beyond protecting the kids, it won’t belong before they’re defining which acts we can do, or we we can’t. In fact, there are still laws on the books in some of the more inbred counties that define oral or anal sex between a man and a women as criminal.
It’s time for the government to get OUT of our bedrooms.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:22 pm#74 No doubt Wayne…you actually help make my point here.
Don’t ask don’t tell makes sense to me when it comes to the military. Is the military the only “job” you can legally be kicked out of for being gay?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:25 pmI don’t know about coming out and losing your job, but Focus on the Family in Colorado (James Dobson, rot in Hell!) MANDATES that their employees attend church and pray.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:40 pmDaryll must be very upset about this and might kill himself. He needs to be put on a suicide watch.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:42 pmIs the military the only “job†you can legally be kicked out of for being gay?
Comment by Mycelium
federal government workers are currently protected from such discrimination, other than in the Military.
BUT, There is no federal law that specifically outlaws workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in the private sector , unfortunately.
Where I work, a major computer company, homophobes are fired if they harrass or discriminate against gay employees.
And sorry about the earlier “full of sh*t” comment, misread your previous post. BTW. =P
June 27th, 2007 at 10:44 pmI’ll turn a blind eye on my watch ;)
June 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pmGay men are not interested in straight men? Give me a break. Not all of us are, but quite a few are. Especially the self hating ones who call themselves straight or bi. Hasn’t anyone on this blog ever read a gay personal ad that read “straight acting, ub2″?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:49 pmAnd what do you think “straight acting” means?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:50 pmWhat I want to know, as a hetero, why it bothers people???
Seriously why? Who cares what someone does with their genitals, as long as kids aren’t involved? The Christian Right? Why do they care? Because people who do it are going to hell? Great! More room in heaven for them, right?
Whats the big deal?
Can someone help me here?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:52 pmAnd what do you think “straight acting†means?
Comment by MsJoanne — June 27, 2007 @ 10:50 pm
Well, I gotta swing at this one, lol.
Straight men usually don’ swish their hips from side to side when they walk.
Straight men usually don’t hold their arms up with their wrists limp.
Straight men usually don’t lick their lips when the Dominican poolboy comes into the room.
Shall I go on?
:O
June 27th, 2007 at 10:55 pmBart, I think it has to do with a deep internal insecurity and fear. For some reason, they are threatened by what they don’t know or understand (the same people hate jews, spics, whatever is outside of what they are). And you see this much more in the more hegemonic areas where when they see others, they see themselves.
And we’re still a very Victorian society (well, with others, at least).
It’s easy to pick someone to hate. You hate what’s not you.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:57 pmBart, EXACTLY! That’s what I wanted that guy to say, because if you read his post, he obviously thinks it means something different.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:58 pmI think you’re right, but I just don’t get it. I mean, of all the things I could be pissed about why that? Why something that in no way affects you, other than its outside of your comfort zone.
Overbearing evangelical Christians are outside of my comfort zone but I tolerate it anyway.
What the hell is the drive?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:01 pmI was groped by a homosexual in a bar in Charleston SC when I was in the Navy. He ran out of the bar. Young and nieve I didn’t pick up on the possibility that he was gay. It didn’t bother me. Startled yes. Later I laughed it off. I never thought of retaliation.
There were over 200 men on my ship and in the 3 years on board I never saw or heard of any homosexual activity. I’m sure that there must have been a few on board. What is the problem?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:02 pmThanks Wayne…almost commented about that but let it go.
Where I’m coming from here has little to do with gay issues anyway. My concerns are more with the “average†American worker being sold down the road. Unions- like them or not- are what made and maintained Americas middle class. Non-union workers also benefit from unionism through better wages and conditions being offered so they don’t go union. Unions are the check and balence for corporate greed.
Unions have been weakened by neo-thugs to the point of near irrelevance and what’s left of the “middle class†has- and is suffering. But nobody seems to care much. Folks at least appear to be more concerned with gay marriage and gay soldiers. I have seen how these issues divide people and sets the smokescreen for what I feel is a more important issue. Gay people surely want to make a living wage too.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:04 pmI think, the problem is…… religion.
:0
oops. did I say that outloud?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:05 pmHegemony! To have EVERYONE be ultra right wing Christians like they are (hence evangelical “missions” to convert the world).
You have more tolerance than I. I hate overbearing “Christians” who insist that I live my life according to their rules. I am by far and away more Christian (in spirit) than most of them could ever think about being!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:05 pmWow. We had the same thought at the same time. Look at the post times Joanne.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:06 pmGreat minds and all. :)
June 27th, 2007 at 11:07 pmYou have more tolerance than I. I hate overbearing “Christians†who insist that I live my life according to their rules.
Comment by MsJoanne — June 27, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
Yea, but you wouldn’t consider making a law to ban them from the military, right, or from any public service, right?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:11 pmThats because you ARE more Christian then they are.
If they were truly Christian, they would do what Jesus said and taught, and live and let live.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pmUnions have been weakened by neo-thugs to the point of near irrelevance and what’s left of the “middle class†has- and is suffering.
Comment by Mycelium
Yeah, the union busting crap was started under Ronnie Raygun and grew from there to what we have today.
Each Republican since has continued it.
Unions are why we have labor laws to protect us.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:15 pmMinimum wage, 40 hour work week, and so on.
Alas, Bart…only in my dreams.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:15 pmI believe that the SCOTUS has done away with some of that pesky 40 hour thing a bit ago. More and more erosions are taking place daily now.
I make a pretty good living but I watch this and weep at what is happening to other average Americans. Everything we know, and have known throughout our lives is in deep peril. And those who should care, don’t. They keep watching Fox and think that these multimillionaire paid “news”casters are on their side…it blows my mind.
How much will they take before they see what’s happening to THEM? I mean, hate can only take you so far. How can you hate when you’re friggin’ hungry?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:19 pm#95
Yeah, union busting is part of Ronnie Ray-Guns legacy the GOP’ers wish to carry on.
But I think you see where I’m at here concerning gays. I have seen many of my union brethren vote rethug because of GAG issues. Chickens voting for Col. Sanders. Few issues are more poignant and dividing than gay ones. I just wish the hypocritical rethugs hadn’t twisted it to be “Dems are FOR gays- rethugs againstâ€. Gay is non-partisan.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:34 pmRingo way back at 28 or so said, and I didn’t see a response:
I’m not a Republican and have no problems with this view. As the original post said, 79% of Americans pretty much agree on this. Why we have to spend any time considering the opinions of the right wing religio fringe wackjobs majes no sense. This crap is affecting all of us negatively, at home and abroad, by difusing energy from real issues.
Of course, that’s been the core of the Repub. party for years now, distract the fools from the issues that really affect them
June 27th, 2007 at 11:37 pmWhat kills me is gays and lesbians voting GOP. Heck, Cheney’s daughter campaigned for him. Her pregnancy was just fine, but anyone else? F*ck em!
Talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:38 pmI make a pretty good living but I watch this and weep at what is happening to other average Americans.
Comment by MsJoanne
I do well as a computer engineer.
Part of my family and extended family lives on reservations in poverty.
The trends worry me a lot.
What kills me is gays and lesbians voting GOP. Heck, Cheney’s daughter campaigned for him. Her pregnancy was just fine, but anyone else? F*ck em!
Talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
Comment by MsJoanne
Never could understand that.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThat’s like a london hooker voting for Jack the Ripper
Boggles the mind really. hehe
Well, guess all you want!!!
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 27, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
Oh, yeah. It’s so “guessing”. @_@
You know, because it is sheer coincidence that you “two” (and the other “you”s for that matter) have the same writing style and typing idiosyncrasies. It is also purely coincidental that you (or your other “personalities”) are on at the same time. I’m sure it’s because you guys are y’know, like, so totally AWESOME!!! Oh, and I’m sure that the little details that constantly slip in, like, oh, using the same Shiny New Forum Toysâ„¢ you’ve discovered at precisely the same time, are also fortuitous bouts of luck and co-in-kee-dink.
And the fact you haven’t been kicked off is astounding. You are one of the most disruptive trolls I’ve ever seen, and no amount of complaining, or ignoring, or complete and utter shredding of your (lack of) logic makes you leave. You constantly try out new forms of trolling, pushing for new responses, attempting to take different sides, and experiment with different levels of manic or otherwise twisted behavior. For the former reason alone (the mods refuse to do anything that will cease your disruptions), it’s almost tempting to say you are working for Think Progress itself, as some sort of experiment in forum-behaviors. Almost.
So no, no guessing is required.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:07 amHEAR! HEAR!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:16 amComment by Moderation — June 28, 2007 @ 12:07 am
You’re a moron!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:16 amI’m a Republican that does believe that people who are homosexual should be allowed to serve openly in the military so long as the same rules regarding fraternization and sexual conduct apply equally to everyone regardless of their sexual orientation.
Comment by Ringo — June 27, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
Well, good for you! What I want to know is why you feel the need to mention the caveat (”so long as”). Gay soldiers (ALL soldiers) have that restriction anyway. If you want to sound reasonable, as clearly you do, you might want to ditch the “so long as.” With it, you just sound like a bigot. Hope this helps!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:17 amit’s almost tempting to say you are working for Think Progress itself, as some sort of experiment in forum-behaviors. Almost.
So no, no guessing is required.
Comment by Moderation — June 28, 2007 @ 12:07 am
PiPpy… CT… TP… JOOOOoooOOOOOoooos… Conspiracy!!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:18 amI’m not a Republican and have no problems with this view. As the original post said, 79% of Americans pretty much agree on this. Why we have to spend any time considering the opinions of the right wing religio fringe wackjobs majes no sense. This crap is affecting all of us negatively, at home and abroad, by difusing energy from real issues.
Of course, that’s been the core of the Repub. party for years now, distract the fools from the issues that really affect them
Comment by PaminBB — June 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
I’m not a Republican and have no problems with this view. As the original post said, 79% of Americans pretty much agree on this. Why we have to spend any time considering the opinions of the right wing religio fringe wackjobs majes no sense. This crap is affecting all of us negatively, at home and abroad, by difusing energy from real issues.
Of course, that’s been the core of the Repub. party for years now, distract the fools from the issues that really affect them
Comment by PaminBB — June 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Bares repeating…Thank you for articulating what I could not.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:21 amIt looks like America is growing up!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:21 amSRY bout that dbl post…time to hit the hay.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:22 amYou’re a moron!!!
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:16 am
PiPpy… CT… TP… JOOOOoooOOOOOoooos… Conspiracy!!!!
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:18 am
That was a most impressive display of an attack on the substance of my post. I am nearly blinded by your skill at dissecting my post with your tremendous verbal acumen and wit. Why, you didn’t even have to bring to bear a single argument. Nary a neuron was fired to dismantle my entire argument.
For lo, didst ad hominem attacks flow, and the blood of thine enemies didst spill, for thy blade was sharp, and thy tongue sharper still. Yea, doth a lack of substance, wit, linguisitc skill, and simple logic win all debate. For verily, IOKIYAR. A-men!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:35 amComment by Moderation — June 28, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Sorry.
Better luck next time!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:41 amPRP = CT=V1. Sock puppetry.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:20 amI am a woman who has proudly served in our armed forces. When I announced to my friends a few decades ago that I planned to join the military, I was told by more than one that I should reconsider, since all the women in the military were “whores and lesbians” and I was asked (seriously) what I would do if a lesbian climbed into my bed. My response (once I recovered from the sheer absurdity of the question) was that I would react the way I would if anybody climbed into my bed uninvited — ask them to leave or kick them out.
It should come as no surprise to anyone that I found the women I served with to be mostly a great bunch, and we respected each other. I’m sure there were some closet lesbians I served with, but I was never groped, harrassed, or molested in any way by another woman. Pity I can’t say the same for some of the heterosexual men I served with.
Allowing all qualified people to serve regardless of their sexual orientation has always been the right thing to do. It’s about time.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:46 amI would say the poll is meaningless. Let the men and women of the Armed Services make that decision. It is they who will have to make it work. And when I say the men and women, I DON’T mean the General Staff. I mean the people who do the bleeding and the dying.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:06 am#117 – I can understand where you’re coming from, but did the service members of the US Military have a say in the decision to allow black people to join? How about allowing women to become fighter pilots?
England did not put this to a vote to the miliraty service members when they opened service to openly gay people. It was a policy decision that was enacted by the government, and it’s worked just fine. It was also the correct decision to make, and I hope that the US grows up and allows equal service by gay people. I would have stayed in the Army had this not been an issue.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:29 am#118 – but did the service members of the US Military have a say in the decision to allow black people to join? —– They sure did….It was the troops who served beside colored troops in the Civil War who argued for their inclusion in the forces.
79% ?? That IS astonishing, I wonder what that % would be if you asked 515 Servicemembers.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:57 amOf course, if we’re allowing 515 people to represent us all, well maybe we should take a look at the House and Senate and see where that’s gotten us before. LOL
#119 – “They sure did….It was the troops who served beside colored troops in the Civil War who argued for their inclusion in the forces.”
Wow! I wasn’t aware that the Army had instituted racial integration in the 1800’s! I guess this report was a complete lie, and that the military has been racially integrated before 1943.
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/integrating.cfm
“It was not until the Civil War that African Americans were required to fight in racially separate units. In 1869, Congress made racial separation in the military official government policy.”
“It was during World War II that the policy of racial segregation within the military began to break down under pressure from African American leaders, who pointed out the contradiction of a country fighting Nazi racism having a segregated military. In March 1943, the War Department ordered the desegregation of recreational facilities at military facilities. In mid-1944, the War Department ordered all buses to be operated in a non-discriminatory fashion.”
I fully understand why you believe that racial segregation was enforced by the service members of the military. It’s hard to think of today’s military members being racially motivated, but they were.
When I served in the Army, there was only one person who had a problem with my sexuality. This was out of the hundreds of people that new. And this one person wasn’t even my roommate! Not one of my roommates had any problem with me being gay.
Sorry to shoot down your assumption that the 515 military members would overwhelmingly disapprove of openly gay service members. unless, of course, you pick & choose particular people that will vote the way you want them to vote.
June 28th, 2007 at 10:30 am#120 – We were discussing whether blacks were allowed to SERVE at all, not whether they were separated. Prior to the Civil War, blacks were not Soldiers, they were attendants and cooks.
June 28th, 2007 at 10:58 am#120 – Sorry to shoot down your assumption that the 515 military members would overwhelmingly disapprove of openly gay service members.—- I apologize if that seemed to be my ‘assumption’, I was pointing out that 515 doesn’t seem to be a very wide-reaching range for making assumptions about all of the US. I DO believe that the % would be lower among the military. Maybe not a lot, but lower.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:03 am#121 – My pardon. When I was writing my post in 118, I meant to word it in such a way that pointed out the segregation that was standard at the time.
I do know that black people were allowed in the military, but there was segregation in the ranks. Black service members had their own units and were not integrated until it was enforced by congress during WW-II.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:04 am#123 – but there was segregation in the ranks. Black service members had their own units and were not integrated until it was enforced by congress during WW-II.
Which was a BIG DEAL in the 1860’s…..and although they were not OFFICIALLY integrated, blacks (at least in the US Army, not the CSA) did often serve side-by-side with white Soldiers. It wasa big deal, and a MAJOR step. It just bogged down for another 100 years.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:20 amI DO believe that the % would be lower among the military. Maybe not a lot, but lower.
Comment by SGT Higgins — June 28, 2007 @ 11:03 am
Nahhh.
You’re not giving them enough credit.
They can’t all be inbreds.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:22 am#125 – LOL Perhaps not, I just think that there would be a higher percentage of ‘inbreds’.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:30 am#126 – I agree. During my term of service, there are indeed a good number of in-breed/brain-dead that fill the ranks!
We refered to these people as “barracks rats”. They spent their time off-duty drinking at the barracks and going nowhere fast. These same people would complain about being passed over for promotion and claiming it was for reasons other than them being lazy and useless.
There will always be people who are against any changes at wll whatsoever. I do believe that the number of people who would be against allowing gays to serve openly has decreased dramatically over the past 10 years.
Nobody has done a complete survey of serving military to see what they think. It’s always people who aren’t actively in the military who make claims about what the serving military would accept, both pro and con.
June 28th, 2007 at 11:36 amKeep it in the closet where it has been for centuries, I have a stepson that is gay, and I know he cant help it, he was born that way. But, dont predepose to teach my children that it is ok, or that it is normal. Those of us from the old school will never buy into lies, or break our moral code. Or stand for perversion in our face.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:47 pmYa gotta love America, place of free speach. Any man that lays his hand on me with intent other than friendship, could find himself in a bad situation very quickely.It has always been this way, for centuries. But then, most of us know that gays have “gaydar” and will not approach a strait man.