Bush’s domestic surveillance targets remain unknown.
Bush’s domestic surveillance targets remain unknown.
Glenn Greenwald responds to the New York Times’ assertion this morning that President Bush’s domestic surveillance activities “appear so far to have been aimed at mostly people believed to pose a terrorist threat, not a political threat.”
This passage…is simply misleading. There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that Bush’s NSA warrantless (and illegal) eavesdropping activities were “aimed at mostly people believed to pose a terrorist threat, not a political threat.” It is true — as [reporter Scott] Shane writes — that “there is no evidence” that the administration used its eavesdropping powers against, say, political opponents, but that fact is not exculpatory, because there is “no evidence” at all, one way or the other, regarding how the administration eavesdropped.
There has been no disclosure by the administration of any kind — not to Congress, nor to courts, nor to anyone else — of information revealing who was subjected to the administration’s warrantless eavesdropping program, a program which (by its terms and by design) was conducted in complete secrecy.
Read Greenwald’s full essay.
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oh yeah like this list will see the light of day, as long as Cheney sits in the VP office.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:02 pmThat’s just how they want it – so we’re all thinking that maybe it’s us!
The reality, though, is that the 4th amendment is unambiguous…and the Constitution itself gives the federal government no authority, whatsoever, to act in such a way.
Get the criminals out. now.
Some interesting reading on this issue:
June 27th, 2007 at 10:04 pm“Freedom in a Surveillance State”
http://www.populistamerica.com/freedom_in_a_surveillance_state
After what happened in NYC during those protests, do we really believe anything the government has to say about this?
Shutting down dissidents. Welcome to fascist America.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:04 pmMight Congress move a little more swiftly on this matter if they knew THEY were targeted?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:09 pmPerhaps that’s why they aren’t moving quite as quickly.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:10 pmso, Quakers are more terrorists types than acting as a politcal group, ….ok…..mostly
June 27th, 2007 at 10:11 pmPerhaps that’s why they aren’t moving quite as quickly.
Comment by MsJoanne
I think they would become quite indignant about having been targetted, and would call for heads to roll. They don’t care about the American people getting the same treatment, because they don’t really represent us anyway.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:16 pmI can’t wait till the Bush “Family Jewels” are released in 2050 or so. It’s going to be the size of the Manhattan Yellow Pages.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:20 pmGosh, I remember way back when, all the trolls were saying the surveillance program was only targeted at foreign terrorists, and it was for our safety.
Now its basically accepted the program also has domestic targets.
When will it be accepted that they were spying on political threats?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:20 pmThat damn liberal press. There they go again.
The NY Times carrying water for the Bush Administration. Not a lot of surprise there.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:21 pmUSATODAY (usually a worthless comic outside my hotel room door each day) did a credible job of covering the CIAs illegal domestic surveillance of (WTF?) dangerous revolutionaries like Brit Hume.
Hayden said that was a “very different era”….. yeah right, and I’m George Bush’s poodle.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:23 pmNope Bush spied on the entire Congress and on us on TP as well.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:25 pmBong Hits 4 Jesus!
June 27th, 2007 at 10:26 pmThis is related but somewhat off topic. Sorry. I just tried to access, read, comment at both Huffington Post and Crooks and Liars and the comments are not there. Are they being hacked? Or am I just paranoid? I wouldn’t put it past em.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:29 pmReason why Congress caves to Bush Regime is because of all the dirt dug up on Reps and Senators by spying on them. Call it extortion and blackmail.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:31 pmWhere are the trolls?? ~~sound of crickets~~
June 27th, 2007 at 10:31 pmlegalization of marijuana is legitimate political discourse.
here in colorado, denver voters passed decriminalization
and colorado voters narrowly voted it down statewide.
no criminal penalty for under an ounce.
colorado is a medical marijuana state, but lame compared to cali.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:32 pmKatie, I think Jay Randal might have hit the nail on the head. Let’s assume you have a MINOR league Mark Foley event or lifestyle in your background and Rove catches wind of that? I mean, they already pulled the original “gate” why not a repeat performance?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:35 pmThis is related but somewhat off topic. Sorry. I just tried to access, read, comment at both Huffington Post and Crooks and Liars and the comments are not there. Are they being hacked? Or am I just paranoid? I wouldn’t put it past em.
Comment by question mark — June 27, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
Just saw a note on crooksandliars that they were having technical problems; looks like it’s back up.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:36 pmRemember when Russ Feingold tried to censure Bush over this very same issue? The dems left him high and dry. Bet they’re having second thoughts now that they realize the spying might be on them.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:40 pmComment by question mark — June 27, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
I just went to C&L, and there’s this message:
“Update: We know the comment section is down….The techies are working on it..Thanks…”
It’s at the bottom of the (now) second story down, about the 50 high school presidential scholars who gave Bush the letter saying:
“We do not want America to represent torture.â€
June 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pmGlenn hits the nail on the head with this:
YES!
I’ve been hammering this for quite some time. Bush complains that the NSA does not have time to go to the FISA court to wiretap a known or suspected terrorists, because the process takes too long and the target might get away.
Yet on a domestic-domestic call, which easily could involve terrorists, Bush says, yeah, we go to the FISA court.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pmThere is plenty of evidence, however, that Bushco has gone to great lengths to politicize the Justice Department and to impede any oversight. Does anyone in their right mind believe that the surveillance program did not target political opponents? C’mon.
Greenwald is da man!
June 27th, 2007 at 10:47 pmThis is an administration that can tell the difference between their political opponents and actual enemies of the state. I would be very, very surprised if this illegal surveillance isn’t targeting people and organizations who sole “crime” is opposition to the war or support for civil liberties.
Of course, the irony is that the Bush administration – by violating our unalienable rights, the U.S. Constitution, and their oaths of office – ARE enemies of the state.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:49 pmthere really is no reason to believe that the bush admin’s wiretapping , actually telephone tapping (cell phones were included), did not include:
- foreign diplomats
- american diplomats
- soldiers criticizing the iraq invasion from iraq
- members of anti-war groups in the united states
- members of congress who had access to classified info that the bush admin did not want revealed.
- members of the bush administration who might reveal unpleasant truths about the invasion and occupation of iraq
- members of the electronic and print media who expressed opposition to the war
the hallmark of the bush administration is to use whatever means of intimidating is available to use to suppress opposition.
the ruling assumption in any investigation of bush admin telephone tapping should be:
if they could do it;
they did do it.
June 27th, 2007 at 10:50 pmI’d like to know how the NYT knows that the surveillance isn’t targeted at domestic political disssidents?
June 27th, 2007 at 10:58 pmThere has been no disclosure by the administration of any kind — not to Congress, nor to courts, nor to anyone else — of [...] a program which (by its terms and by design) was conducted in complete secrecy.
This is the country that the Bush loyalists, blind followers and assorted cultists have wet dreams about: One where the Leader is not accountable to anyone, anywhere, at anytime, for any reason, and he can conduct whatever program he fancies.
This is the type of authoritarian society they dream about as long -of course- as the Leader is a Republican, and they’re told that it is for their own good. Because the Leader knows what is good for them better than they do.
The Bush administration has set such a bad precedent in so many areas, I am afraid of what future administrations may be able to get away with.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:08 pmChimpy is a dumbass, a puppet, a figurehead.
We all know now, beyond a doubt, that Cheney is running things.
Chimpy is too stupid and wussy to shut Cheney down.
It is no secret that several government agencies, including the Pentagon, have been spying on peace marchers.
I bet my photo is in one of their files. I hope I’m not on their no fly list because of it.
We don’t live in a democracy anymore. We live in a police state.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:10 pmTom3, yup! Welcome to Fascist Amerika!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:11 pmAfter what Gonzo did politicizing the Justice Department to make way for the Republican election machine Rove, how can you not think they were using this survalence against political rivals?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:13 pmWhat would they have to hide, otherwise? Why work so hard to hide it if they were only looking into real threats to security? You would think they would be proud of it.
What would they have to hide, otherwise? Why work so hard to hide it if they were only looking into real threats to security? You would think they would be proud of it.
Comment by willyloman
I think they were targeting everything that moved — watching everyone they possibly could — and they didn’t know what the hell they were doing.
Gotta hide that.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:17 pmCould be, but Rove was very selective about what US Attorneys would be replaced and who would be put into thier positions.
They certainly video taped alot of people at rallies and marches and used facial recognition software to put names with the faces.
And they went as far as to put plants undercover into some of these groups. Now, if they would go that far to keep track on the opposition groups, why not listen in?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:23 pmI just realized something…
I’m oppressed! I’m one of the oppressed! Yea!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:25 pmkarla rove already has the 2008 election strategy underway.
part one is to blame the democrats for the iraq war continuing.
done.
part two is to get the iraq oil giveaway bill signed into law.
part three is to get iraq to okay our permanent bases there.
part four is to keep 50,000 troops in iraq but send 100,000 home for christmas. or right before the election.
if the democrats run on iraq in 2008 they will lose.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pmkarla rove already has the 2008 election strategy underway.
part one is to blame the democrats for the iraq war continuing.
done.
part two is to get the iraq oil giveaway bill signed into law.
part three is to get iraq to okay our permanent bases there.
part four is to keep 50,000 troops in iraq but send 100,000 home for christmas. or right before the election.
if the democrats run on iraq in 2008 they will lose…big.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pmIt’s pretty clear that in Seattle the US attorney was targeted for not prosecuting cases of voter fraud that the FBI agreed had insufficient evidence. Against democrats. In an election that was won on two recounts. I’d bet my ass that they were surveilling lots of folks connected to said investigation.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:34 pmI remember one of my tactical sergeants during NCO academy telling me, there’s no sense in having a weapon if you don’t use it.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:36 pmIf they had the ability to do surveillance, given the Rovian mindset, it’s a weapon. And they’d use it.
Sweet Mother of God, Glen Frigging Greenwald……ENOUGH!!!! New cast of characters please!!!!!!!!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:39 pmLike…Glenn Reynolds? Thanks, I’ll pass.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:40 pmIf they had the ability to do surveillance, given the Rovian mindset, it’s a weapon. And they’d use it.
Yeah, but do you think Rove learned that at the NCO Academy? I know it wasn’t part of NCO Leadership School in the Air Force. But that was just a short course we had to take.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:40 pm#33 – willyloman
A great Monty Python bit from Holy Grail came to mind….
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
King Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn’t you?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:40 pmwhats a tactical sergeant? i haven’t heard of that grade.
my dad was a technical sergeant in ww2. i think it was called a t-3
then the army went to specialist grades
in battle, the sergeant is the guy who doesnt get killed but gets a squad into position to kill the enemy.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:41 pmA political threat is the same as a terrorist threat.
National security is economical security.
If the democrats run on iraq in 2008 they will lose…big.
Comment by Tom3
I have to respectfully disagree, all the GOP candidates at this time are running on Iraq, except Ron Paul. It wouldn’t seem that they are following Karls plan. The Democrats tried to make George follow benchmarks. He didn’t. The did bow to Georges request for more money, HIS Request.. The Kurds are already selling oil and allowing others to drill without an oil law in place.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:43 pmComment by Zooey — June 27, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
And when Bush walks by people, they can quote another part of that scene:
Peasant 1: Oh, he must be a King.
Peasant 2: How can you tell?
Peasant 1: Well, he hasn’t got shit all over him.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:43 pmyou are in big trouble if you weigh the same as a duck.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:44 pmComment by Zooey — June 27, 2007 @ 11:40 pm
My exact thoughts — lordy, we do think alike, don’t we? No wonder Wayne likes you so much! ;-)
June 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pmA complete nation of self absorbed idiots should be under surveillance. They can observe the idiocy and laugh for days. When they come to kill you, you will simply think they are bringing you a café latté. You all trust the plutocrats when push comes to shove.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pmPeasant 1: Well, he hasn’t got shit all over him.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
Right! Heh.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pmfreedomrings, so YOU wouldn’t be under surveillance? You are on TP. I am actually hoping they come and get you.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:47 pmA complete nation of self absorbed idiots should be under surveillance.
Yeh, them boob-tube Paris Hilton watchers should be under surveillance. We must have the most bored surveillance people in the world if thats their focus.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:48 pmjust watch, the repukes will get chimpy to withdraw 2/3 of our troops in iraq before the election.
that will defuse the iraq issue enough to weaken the dems.
and the repukes just got mccain-feingold thrown out by the supremes
get ready for the $hit to hit the fan.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:48 pmYou trust the plutocrats, that is true. TP and the normal people posting here are not big fans. Thanks though.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:48 pm“follow the goard!”
“follow the sandal”
No the goard!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:49 pm#40 Wayne, hell no. He probably picked it up from a book he read by a guy named Machiavelli.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:49 pmComment by freedomrings — June 27, 2007 @ 11:45 pm
No disrespect intended, but I just don’t see myself walking up and knocking on your front door anytime soon. I’m afraid of how, and with what in hand, you open the door.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:50 pmWayne, hell no. He probably picked it up from a book he read by a guy named Machiavelli.
Comment by RUCerious — June 27, 2007 @ 11:49 pm
You’re right, I forgot. He co-authored that book in another incarnation.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:51 pma majority of the supremes are catholic now.
that is really disturbing. that is not representative of the population
June 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pmComment by JPark — June 27, 2007 @ 11:48 pm
Oh why does JPark hate America so much? Why is he genetically challenged? Prey for him even though he hates freedom so and defends the brown shirts!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pmMy exact thoughts — lordy, we do think alike, don’t we? No wonder Wayne likes you so much! ;-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Wayne obviously has extremely high standards. :)
June 27th, 2007 at 11:54 pmPrey for him? He can do his own damn hunting!
June 27th, 2007 at 11:55 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 27, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
You trust congress and they did the unspeakable. Stick a fork in it America is DONE. You are now on your own! Why do you hate the United States like JPark? Why are you such an idiot?
June 27th, 2007 at 11:56 pmfreedomrings, so YOU wouldn’t be under surveillance? You are on TP. I am actually hoping they come and get you.
Comment by JPark
Hells Bells, I have been under surveillance for years, LONG before I ever posted anything on this political website because of some dumbass pilots son I worked with. My life has been pure hell for nothing whatsoever.
Trust me, if you were being surveilled they would be leaving little signs around just to mess with your heads and to let you know they have been in your home.
June 27th, 2007 at 11:57 pmI’m preying for ilk season.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:00 amYou trust congress and they did the unspeakable. Stick a fork in it America is DONE. You are now on your own! Why do you hate the United States like JPark? Why are you such an idiot?
Comment by freedomrings — June 27, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Are you affiliated with The Joker’s crew, freedomrings?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:00 amOnly the best for me! :)
—–
I’d like to know how the NYT knows that the surveillance isn’t targeted at domestic political disssidents?
Comment by RUCerious — June 27, 2007 @ 10:58 pm
Gregor Samsa summarized it nicely.
And the solution to what future administrations might get away with is to find an honest Democrat or Republican and thro…(doubling over in laughter)…ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha….ha-ha….I’m sorry…(wiping tear away from eyes)…I thought I could keep a strai…ha-ha-ha-ha…oh…ha-ha…keep a straight face, and…
GIVE ‘EM THE BIRD!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:01 amVOTE FOR A THIRD!
I am actually hoping they come and get you.
Comment by JPark
See you do support the jackboots! Why do you lie so? Why are you an idiot JPark?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:02 amAnybody who still supports Chimpy and Cheney should have a psychiatric evaluation to see if they are a threat to themself or others. A 72 hour hold is typical. Put them in a rubber room for three days.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:04 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:00 am
????????????? No
June 28th, 2007 at 12:04 amWait. I thought you were the Jack boots, freedomrings? he supports you, and your calling him an idiot?
Why is blogging so difficult?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:04 amComment by freedomrings — June 27, 2007 @ 11:52 pm
While we all, I’m sure, appreciate the fact that you have not added your “General Strike” mantra a dozen times in boldface after each of your posts, you need to take rejection of some of your ideas a little better.
Not to mention, what Bartlebee said the other night about you rings true. You shouldn’t be trusted.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:04 amI always say, you can’t have a police state without the state police.
When they come to take me away, it won’t be some foreign troops, it will be cops from my neighborhood handing me over to DHS
Welcome to the New World Order. Your detention cell is waiting.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:06 amCongress and Bush played the sucker bet today and most of you wanted the amnesty bill. Now you will know pain. The country has been completely destroyed now. Depression will be here shortly.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:06 amSee you do support the jackboots! Why do you lie so? Why are you an idiot JPark?
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:02 am
What are you on, freedomrings?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:07 amanybody who supports chimpy and cheney is supporting jack booted thugs trampling over our rights. duh. anybody knows that, even the chimpylovers.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:09 amComment by Jane E. Schneider — June 28, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Another idiot. The country was destroyed yesterday by congress and BARTAwhatever is an idiot too.Why do you all hate the USA?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:09 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:00 am
????????????? No
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Well, you sure sound like you are!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:09 amThis has to be a name-jacking!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:10 amThe country has been completely destroyed now. freedomrings
Yeah, its been doing so well in the last couple of years..
This is the thing that brings it all down, huh.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:10 amWhat are you on, freedomrings?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — June 28, 2007 @ 12:07 am
This thread moron! What delusion are you under?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:10 amOk, freedomrings has gone off again…..
Off to a different thread!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:14 amThe alien invasion is the final humiliation and so many here support it. You are dead to me from this point on. None of you can assemble or listen to common sense. You deserve a police state when you support dismantling the Constitution. Why do you hate Americans so much?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:15 amComment by Zooey — June 28, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Your on your own now! Pointless!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:16 amSomething tells me that freedomrings has been invaded by the aliens before. In the mothership? Anally?
Come on… near the crop circle?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:18 amOh why do you all cast freedom away? How dare you. How dare congress. How dare shrub. Jab in the fork America is DONE!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:19 amThe alien invasion is the final humiliation and so many here support it. You are dead to me from this point on. None of you can assemble or listen to common sense. You deserve a police state when you support dismantling the Constitution. Why do you hate Americans so much?
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:15 am
Are you talking illegals… or space-men?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:21 amWhy oh why do you all hate freedom
June 28th, 2007 at 12:22 am“The alien invasion…” Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:15 am
…is coming to take you away?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:22 amI think he is talking about what happened to him the night he found the crop cirlce.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:23 amComment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:21 am
Another retard on the thread. Why do you hate Americans like you do?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:24 amComment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:24 am
Because the government is run by Muslim agents.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:25 amWhy do you all hate freedom? Why do you betray you flag? Why are you so foolish? Why do you want anything that shrub wants? Morons!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:26 amYou see these slack jawed dim bulbs everywhere; the ones that buy the private seat scams are the same ones who sincerely believe government spying on citizens is really in our best interest. If you want to be informed on how a professional spying operation works, check out the movie, “The Lives of Others.”
June 28th, 2007 at 12:26 amWhy oh why do you all hate freedom
Comment by freedomrings
You’re being ridiculous. We don’t need to to think for us. Why don’t you take a break?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:26 am“Now you will know pain.” Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:06 am
It’s already painful reading your bogus comments. Now, go away before we taunt you a second time.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:27 amDon’t betray the flag. Wrap up your illegal invasion in it. Like a fish in paper.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:28 amBecause the government is run by Muslim agents.
Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 12:25 am
Why are you a moron? Why post disinformation when America was destroyed from within? Why do you detest Americans? You are dead to me.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:29 am“and your mother smells of elderberries”
June 28th, 2007 at 12:29 am“You are dead to me.”
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:29 am
So, apparently he likes to talk to dead people.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:30 amYou are dead to me.
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:29 am
OK.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:31 amWhy do you hate freedom. Why does congress hate the Constitution? Why are you such idiots and liars?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:32 am“and your mother smells of elderberriesâ€
Comment by willyloman — June 28, 2007 @ 12:29 am
I feel like we’re doing the Fish Dance with this lunatic.
(Ah, you can use Monty Python references for SO many occasions!) :D
June 28th, 2007 at 12:33 amWhy can’t I stop the voices? Why must I wear the tin-foil hat? Why?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:35 amComment by Jane E. Schneider — June 28, 2007 @ 12:30 am
That is a metaphor you piece of walking garbage! Why are you an idiot? Why do you despise freedom?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:36 amComment by willyloman — June 28, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Because you are an idiot whop hates freedom and despises liberty like the rest of the trolls that post here! You are garbage if you support congress and congress supports the shrub!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:38 amYo, freedomrings! You might want to give that IV drip a little counter-clockwise turn. I think you got it flowing a little too fast.
Yeah, yeah. I’m an idiot, too! There’s a freaking news flash!
Well, then, all any of us idiots can say is, “It takes one to know one.”
Goodnight, freedomrings. Keep that weapon close at hand while you sleep. The jackboots might be coming to get ya!
Or maybe not. (You haven’t done anything you hope they never find out about, did you? Ever?)
I’m off to bed. Have a good night, everyone. Peace on Earth.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:41 amYou had a chance and now it is too late. The aliens will rally around the shrub now as their new lord. The nation has been mortally wounded. Why do you hate Americans so?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:43 amIs it unalienable or inalienable? Wikipedia says its both.
The term inalienable rights (or unalienable rights) refers to a set of human rights that are said to be absolute, not awarded by human power, not transferable to another power, and incapable of repudiation. Several different sets of inalienable rights have been suggested by philosophers and politicians. Inalienable rights are defined as natural rights, but natural rights are not required by definition to be inalienable.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:43 am“Because you are an idiot whop…”
A whop? Is that a racial thing? Did you go racist on me?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:44 amComment by Wayne A. Schneider — June 28, 2007 @ 12:41 am
You are walking, talking garbage! GFY
June 28th, 2007 at 12:44 amGFY
Comment by freedomrings — June 28, 2007 @ 12:44 am
What makes you think I’m not doing that now?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:46 amfreedomrings; you don’t get to play with sharp pointy things, do you?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:48 amA whop? Is that a racial thing? Did you go racist on me?
Comment by willyloman — June 28, 2007 @ 12:44 am
You are nothing like clever and that will not work! GFY You hate this nation and the taxpayers too.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:49 amYou are part of the destruction. None of you lifted a finger to stop it! Shame on you all! FcuK you traitors!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:51 amGo on and post all of your crap but simply “give shrub what he wants” shame shame shame!
June 28th, 2007 at 12:53 amWhy do you hate America so?
June 28th, 2007 at 12:57 amTraitors and betrayers destroying the USA for the love of money and pride. Shame on you!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:00 amYou had a chance and chose to trust the Government this one more time. Blood sucking lawyers represent you and you let it happen over and over again. Because of inaction there are little “free speech zones” GFYourselves!!!!!!!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:04 amAt least 20 loopholes. GFYourselves you should all be ashamed. Many of us spent the day writing and calling the blood suckers because none of you are more than cowards and can’t FcuK to save your breed. Stick the knife in and drain out the last of the life blood.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:11 amI’ve been hammering this for quite some time. Bush complains that the NSA does not have time to go to the FISA court to wiretap a known or suspected terrorists, because the process takes too long and the target might get away.
Comment by WC
HE’S BLATANTLY LYING!
They have the right to start wiretapping immediately, and then they can get the warrant within 72 hours…
June 28th, 2007 at 1:40 am
of course dubbya can’t disclose who he’s spying on – for the same reason that he can’t tell anyone when he’s going to pull the troops or tell anyone how he’s going to stop global terrorism – because he doesn’t want the enemy to know his every move,right? – didn’t he at one time say something similar?
June 28th, 2007 at 2:26 ambasically he can’t tell anyone anything and he cleverly disguises it a verbal mutilation of the english language because everyone apparently is now al quaeda – so he needs to speak in a kind of code that nobody can understand – makes perfect reverse sense to me
June 28th, 2007 at 2:30 amLet’s see,
There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that Bush’s NSA warrantless (and illegal) eavesdropping activities were “aimed at mostly people believed to pose a terrorist threat, not a political threat.â€
Carnivour. Europeans have been concerned about it for quite a while. Why do they so distrust the US? Because they (rightfully) believe that it was used to intercept bids that allowed US contracors (Halliburton, Boeing, G.Dynamics, etc.) to out bid their manufacturers based upon inside information. They honestly believe that the US used Carnivour technology to undermine them. Huh. It worked so successfully that good ole dick and his oily cooherts have used it domestically as well as internationally to rig bids. How do I know? B/c I know. We need those records -who visited with the evil eye? When did they meet? What happened next?
June 28th, 2007 at 4:05 amAlthough the problem seems obvious, let me spell it out. If dubya et al can rig bids, fire impartial justices for political reasons and tinker with science, they can use the NSA to determine who’s undermining their policies and screwing with their stock options. Somewhere in this mix is the NYPD that has taken it upon itself to infiltrate non-GOP groups like the Sierra Club and your grandma’s sewing circle to insure that they’re not terrorist orgs . . . now, when I talk to Granny and try to convince her that dub’ya ain’t Ike, who BTW clearly warned against the military industrial complex, the NSA gets a bing, screws my renewable energy IPO for the homeless and tags me a “terrorist” – oops – me and grammy are no longer simply “terrorists”, we are “al quaeda” (sp?). anyway, you get the point.
Gramma – get your vest! Dub’ya’s comin’ and that death penalty seekin Gonzo is hot on his tail! He don’t care ya got old timer’s and no insurance . . .akkkkkk .. . .looks like Cheney’s lit and has a shot gun! Make like Ann Coulter and . . . .I don’t know . . . fart!
June 28th, 2007 at 4:28 amOh, hey, look at me. I’m a typical Liberal-Defeatist, not to mention an Islamo-Stalinist. Since, I have no fukcin’ idea who is being watched I’ll just start assuming shit!!!
Typical Leftist ignorance.
June 28th, 2007 at 5:08 am“It is true — as [reporter Scott] Shane writes — that “there is no evidence ”
That’s FALSE. There is evidence of the misuse of surveillance by the rightwing gov’t.
The FBI has been caught using National Security letters to spy on antiwar groups.
The evidence of major crimes is also quite blatant, so the smokescreen media’s contention — upheld by Greenwald — that this particular issue exists in a vacuum is HILARIOUS.
The violations of classification standards by the Office of Dan Quayle adds hundreds of felonies to the list of Bushco’s crimes.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:05 amWow!
PRIMVS INTER PSRES – Zowie! Anger issues run amok! Psycho – ever see it? You got Grammy in a rocker?
Mine would knock your cross side of the noggin’ Look at you : )
I only got eyes for you ; > ) ooh when you talk that way to me . . . . you . . . you . . . Liebral-Defeatist . . . Look at you! Please, are you also an Islamo-Stalinist ? so hot . . . say it ain’t so . . . . ooh la la . . . assume what you like hot boy . . . .
June 28th, 2007 at 6:15 amComment by enuf — June 28, 2007 @ 6:15 am
You can joke all you want.
We both know that you have been brain-washed by the pro-Islam Left.
You are a typical ignorant Muslim Shiteater ™
June 28th, 2007 at 6:21 amBack in the late 90’s, C-Span aired hearings on Carnivour. At that time, the debate was whether or not it should be deployed domestically. Also at that time, European nations were accusing the US of using it in England and France. They were quite upset. Post 9-11, not a word about it. The surveillence technology didn’t disappear, the issue did. Carnivour is alive and well and living on a computer to which your fingers are attached.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:29 am#124
You are an idiot.
I am a tree huggin’, fiscally conservative independent.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:32 am“Bush’s domestic surveillance targets remain unknown”
Thank God you people were not around during WWII.
June 28th, 2007 at 6:48 amHumm . . .
I’m the decider . . . errr . . . dick, domestic. . . ? that means – like crawford – no . . . well sort of . . . not like when you were the gov … talk to Carll (got to see to the hiddy hole).
Karl . . . . surveillence . . . humm . . . kind of like the sound of that . . . surrrrr —–vail (kinda like what those al-kaada chicks wear) – - – lance – Lance, wasn’t he a friend of my brother’s – remember that whole cowboy Silverado deal in Denver? Shit, my Rangers couldn’t even get to first that year. . . . pretty much sux. Where were we?
June 28th, 2007 at 6:57 amenuf:
Putting aside any feelings you have against Bush personally, during wartime, is it good or bad for the President of the United States to be able to spy on the enemy?
June 28th, 2007 at 7:35 amOh Jake,
You’re here too : )
Semantics . . . who is the enemy? Are American citizens’ thoughts a crime? Are all of the folks in Iraq lobbing bombs the enemy? Are dark skinned Middle Easterners the enemy? Seems to me, if thousands of Iraqis landed on American soil and started shooting in the name of freedom, I would probably comsider them the enemy.
In fact, when my government starts spying on me, telling me what I can and cannot wear (I choose styles that shout “Bongs 4 Jesus”), kicking me out of public political rallies for the bumper sticker on my car and subpoenaing my book store for my purchase records . . . I consider my governmment my enemy. Am I al Qaeda:? apparently.
Jake, we might have to stop blogging like this . . . you could be deemed “unAmerican.”
June 28th, 2007 at 8:22 amFor the purposes of my question, let’s start with “enemy” = “known terrorists plotting to kill large amounts of Americans.”
June 28th, 2007 at 8:30 amOnce again, semantics.
What does “known” mean? Ask Rumy, ask Cheney, I assure you that my definition and theirs is not the same.
Osama bin Laden is a “known” terrorist. The high school honor student that George senior charged with terrorism in Kennebunkport is not a terrorist, although he was charged as such and is still incarcerated is not. He is a juvenile delinquent who made one fatal mistake . . . . hung out with the wrong kids who randomly lit a dock on fire . . . oops . . . Bush’s boat was docked there. Al Qaeda strikes again! Terror on the homeland.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:38 amO.K., can you answer the question if “known” = “proved beyond a reasonable doubt, particularly when substantiated by DNA evidence”?
June 28th, 2007 at 8:41 amYes, I would agree. The puishment being life in prison,probably in Leavenworth, no possibility of parole, after a fair hearing before an impartial jury. Clearly, with all of that DNA, he or she would be convicted and justice would be served.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:46 amNot sure you got that. Yes, the terrorist should be convicted by a fair and impartial jury and serve life without the possibility of parole. Solitary would suit me.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:48 amHere’s the question again: during wartime, is it good or bad for the President of the United States to be able to spy on the enemy (as we’ve now defined “enemy”)?
June 28th, 2007 at 8:56 amBut, I must ask, what qualifies as “known?
Those of us that cared to know, knew of Al Qaeda long before 9-11. Warnings of what Bin Laden was up to were clear. Crashing into a major landmark was not inconceivable. Why was dub’ya asleep at the wheel? Was he not a “known” threat? Think Egypt. Think the Korr (sp?). Think the briefing memo that Bush failed to read.
Think of our soldiers who face terror daily, a pres who skipped out on National Guard duty, who never considered that his daughters were of age to serve, of a VP who got five deferrments, of Wolfowitz who orchestraded the whole damn thing but never served, of the civilian Pentagon led by Rummy, who had never set foot in Iraq but refused to take any advice fromm the commanders on the groung, ad nauseum . . .
June 28th, 2007 at 8:56 amI actually can spell . . . that grammer school . . . Ms. Fesperman, I am ashamed.
June 28th, 2007 at 8:58 amGetting back to your question about spying on the “enemy”.
Of course, in a war, you are going to spy on your enemy – however you may define enemy. You, as Commander in Chief, however, should never be so paranoid that you perceive your electorate as your enemy. For God’s sake, it you believe that you were legitimately elected, you’d have a little faith. Even though, having seen dub’ya snort a———–down in Dallas (perhaps he had a cold) and thought (think) he’s a complete bozo, he’s the Pres and so I want him to succeed. If he needs to spy on foreign soil, so be it. But when he starts in on Americans at home, I want transparency. I want to know why. I want to at a minimum know that he had a legit warrant authorized by a judge based upon probable cause that is written and that I can look at. Kind of like your credit report. If there’s a bunch of crap provided by my former boyfriend’s wife’s sister and I can’t get on an airplane, I want to know why. Unfortunately, it has also been my experience that when you provide “strictly confidential inforamtion” to government agencies, it somehow comes back and bites you in the ass. Don’t trust it, nor should you.
Wow. Proving way too much info.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:10 amHere I am, enjoyig a conversation with a twelve-year-old.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:14 amThe main target of the illegal domestic wiretaps was surely GOP members of congress who continue to support Bush/Cheney and subject our nation and its citizens to the abuse of this administration.
Can you say blackmail? There is nothing else that can explain the devotion to our idiot president and his disgusting v.p.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:19 amI’m not 12 years old — are you? I provided the definition of “known” above. Thanks for your answer though.
June 28th, 2007 at 9:20 amJake, cheer up : ) You’re a troll. I’m not supposed to like you; however, I’ll bet that we agree more than we disagree and I thoroughly enjoy disagreeing with you.
nofltwlt – I don’t get the premise. How could dub’ya/Cheney blackmail GOP members of congress into silence? Why would they?
June 28th, 2007 at 9:33 amno criminal penalty for under an ounce.
Comment by Tom3
Very progressive Colorado, Bravo!
June 28th, 2007 at 9:39 amJale.
Where did you go? Of course I know that you are an adult. I was just kidding.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:23 pm