Turley: Avoid Bush’s Executive Privilege Claim By Investigating NSA Program As A Crime
Turley: Avoid Bush’s Executive Privilege Claim By Investigating NSA Program As A Crime
Yesterday, after years of White House stonewalling, the Senate Judiciary Committee issued subpoenas to the Bush administration for documents related to the warrantless domestic surveillance program.
Today, during a background discussion with reporters, senior Bush administration officials indicated that they would invoke executive privilege in order to deny the NSA documents to Congress, just as they did this morning concerning subpoenas related to the U.S. attorney scandal. “Our response to [the NSA] subpoenas will be the same as our response was before,” said an anonymous official.
But last night on MSNBC’s Countdown, George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley claimed that Congress may be able to “get around the executive privilege in court” by saying “we are investigating a potential crime.” Turley said this was possible because warrantless wiretapping is “a federal crime” that “the president has ordered hundreds of people do.” Watch it:
As Columbia University law professor Michael Dorf points out, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Nixon that, “where the President asserts only a generalized need for confidentiality, [executive privilege] must yield to the interests of the government and defendants in a criminal prosecution.”
Bush is invoking such “a generalized need for confidentiality,” according to a senior administration official this morning:
“This is not a mere exercise relating to a particular event. This is an exercise in an attempt to protect the prerogatives of the president for this president and for future presidents.”
UPDATE: Raw Story has more.
Transcript:
TURLEY: They could. I mean, they could do a kind of tai chi of litigation and just move incredibly slowly. This president doesn’t have long to go. But there is one thing that might concern them about the court, and that is, you know, for many years, since we first found out about this program, some of us have said that was a clearly criminal act that the president called for — that under federal law, it’s a federal crime to do what the president has ordered hundreds of people do. Now, if we’re right, not only did he order that crime, it would in fact be an impeachable offense. Now, both sides, both Democrats and Republicans, have avoided this sort of pig in the parlor. They don’t want to recognize that this president may have ordered criminal offenses, but they now may be on the road to do that, because the way Congress can get around the executive privilege in court is to say we are investigating a potential crime. And if they do it here, that crime was ordered by no one other than the George Bush.
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80 Responses to “Turley: Avoid Bush’s Executive Privilege Claim By Investigating NSA Program As A Crime”
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Like I said, hire a special prosecutor.
June 28th, 2007 at 12:52 pmEither the BushCo NeoCon Ball of Sh!t comes unwound… or it lives on til ‘09. We are truly at a crossroads of American constitutional survival here. Maybe a tipping point is at hand????
June 28th, 2007 at 12:58 pmLooks like it’s almost time for Bush to issue a blanket pardon to the entire Executive Branch.
And also to Cheney….
That will quash the “criminal” aspect of this investigation pretty quickly….
June 28th, 2007 at 12:58 pm#3
June 28th, 2007 at 12:59 pmDubya can’t issue a pardon before a conviction or sentencing has occurred.
In 2008 Vote only for candidates that support complete investigation of the Bush Administration… Make sure your candidate says no pardons.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:00 pmIf the wiretapping is a crime no subpoena is necessary. The crime is grounds for impeachment. Forget the messing around just impeach the bastards and let us get on with our Country.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:01 pmYes it is a crime, so start the impeachment of everybody in Bush Regime.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:04 pmThis is finally some good news. When they start to investigate the crime (and god only knows that this is but one), they will have a basis to impeach and can finally get that damned ball rolling.
And I hope that ball catches every last one of the GOP ba$tards who continue to so thoroughly f*ck over this country on a daily basis.
RETURN TO OUR RULE OF LAW FOR ALL!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:04 pmSpecial prosecutor has a nice ring to it… Is Bill clinton still a practicing lawyer? Wouldn’t that be poetic justice, to appoint Bill Clinton as the special prosecutor here?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI watched this last night. This is good. If Turley, a professor of Constitutional law, can see this and point out the obvious, why can’t Congress come up with this themselves and take action?? You would think there would be MANY scholars and attorneys in Washington and other places around the country who could be screaming about this and can articulate clearly the laws these rogue leaders are breaking so that Congress can do something about it.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:05 pmInvestigate, impeach, arrest, and imprison.
Furthermore, once impeachment proceedings are started, pardons are constitutionally excluded.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:05 pmBush is now claiming privilege on documents he’d previously offered. What a load of crap.
The more the American people know about this administration the more they oppose it. No wonder Bush wants to keep people in the dark. Claiming executive privilege is an act of profound weakness: they know they’re in trouble.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:06 pm.
Police Iraq or Police America…. I choice must be made…
http://helloideas.tumblr.com/post/4463523
June 28th, 2007 at 1:06 pmAlthough this is a wonderful argument, and I do agree, I just don’t see it happening. This is the type of legal argument that can stay tied up in courts for years to come, long after Bush’s departure.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:07 pmThe NSA spying IS a crime.
The fourth amendment is quite unambiguous. The Constitution itself does not give authorization for such activity.
period.
Investigate. Impeach. Prosecute!
Some reading:
June 28th, 2007 at 1:07 pm“The Federal Assault on our Freedoms”
http://www.populistamerica.com/ the_federal_assault_on_our_freedoms
.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:09 pmCharging Bush administration officials with crimes: It’s a slam dunk. Those that bring the charges and put these incompetent people in prison will be greeted as liberators.
.
CHENEY 2008!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:10 pmThe trick is to locate a special prosecutor with the balls to bring about a criminal investigation….eliminate the executive privilege by doing so….and charge the entire Bush Cabal with federal crimes. The precedent may be “United States vs. Nixon” (for which he was hastily impeached) but the new precedent will become “United States vs. Bush”. It can’t occur a moment too soon for the salvation of this democracy.
Now let’s find that special prosecutor…..any ideas of someone honest and courageous enough to do it?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:13 pmBush is looking weaker and more pathetic all the time. Take a look.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:14 pm.
the great news is that if a crime has, ostensibly, been committed (and everyone knows that there is plenty of prima facie evidence to prove it) then impeachment is a foregone conclusion and charges MUST be levied now.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:14 pm“Now let’s find that special prosecutor…..any ideas of someone honest and courageous enough to do it?
Comment by veritas — June 28, 2007 @ 1:13 pm”
How about Fitz, Lam, or Inglessis???
They should do just fine….
June 28th, 2007 at 1:15 pmIt’s a crime that a simple request has to be backed up with threat of a crime.
Feces will hit the fan yet, my friends.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:15 pmGet the popcorn, let the dog up on the couch & enjoy the show!
Turley said Rove would be indicted over Plame, too. So so what?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pmJust another cable entertainment talking head.
VERITAS-1 MAN-DAVID INGLESIAS!(SP?)
June 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pmI just caught a glimpse of Bush in the final moments of his press conference on BBC news regarding his last-attempt at saving face of his entire term….and he looked pathetically wan and exhausted. From his body language alone, I’d say that he realizes that he’s going down…and soon. He also realizes that his sidekick, The Dick, has painted himself into a corner from which there is no exit…..It’s over for the two of them and both in this country as well as The Hague, the handwriting is on the wall. They’re going to be spending time soon in The Big House.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pmYou know, when someone commits murder and eludes the law for say - 20 years, once they are found they are still charged with murder.
I don’t care HOW long it takes. These guys, even it it takes YEARS after they are out of office, need to be held accountable for all the laws they have broken, and all the damage they have done to our system of laws and government, the Constitution and this country. Then they can go after them for War Crimes and whatever else gets uncovered. They need to be charged, tried and imprisoned. For the protection and integrity of this country in the future with future leaders, it is a must that we act to bring these guys to account.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pmThough I guess if we haven’t reinstated Habeus Corpus, the next President could just imprison them somewhere ’secret’, indefinitely without charging them or telling them why they are being held, calling them enemy combatants..
Hey Whitey! Good thought! Wouldn’t it be poetic justice for Iglesias?
He has the courage and heft to handle the case. I’d love to see him take it on. Whomever does take this group of thugs on will become the instant “hero” of the people, that’s for sure.
Any way we can send mail to Iglasias or place calls into his office to set this wheel in motion?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:17 pmThe impeachment ball is rolling - FINALLY! Now there is no way they can wrangle out of this one. They can keep invoking “executive privilege” out the whazoo but when a criminal act has been committed, executive privilege means zilch.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:19 pmFunny how after months (years?) of overt criminal behavior adding up, when the time is right, the impeachment ball begins to move. I hope it is swift and just and these guys get what they deserve according to the law. It can’t begin a moment too soon so press your representatives today to begin taking action.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:20 pmIt’s not like anything Bush has done has NOT been a crime. Really everything he has done has been a crime, just everything, he is the 21st century Fascist Mafia Don.
But congress doesnot want to Impeach, most likely because they want to expose the Repukian Party for what it is, point out their corruption, their crimes, and completely destroy them for years to come.
When you corner someone like Bush, watchout, you can bet on another “Inside Job” Terrorist attack in 08, he will gladly take out a major city for his survival. It’s not like he had any remorse about helping 911 happen.
Repuke = morally corrupt criminal syndicate (this means you too, Jake, MAF54, M12, VV, Mr P etc.)
June 28th, 2007 at 1:20 pmI’m pretty sure a Special Prosecutor is appointed by the DoJ.
That ain’t happening….
June 28th, 2007 at 1:20 pmExactly the approach that should be taken and one that would get the desired results and service the PEOPLE of this nation.
But that is precisely why it won’t happen. In fact, I predict a “not on the table” response from Democratic leadership and a plethora of excuses from the pathetic cast of Democrat players based on the false premise that such would be “bad for the country and the bi-partisan spirit that needs to be attained in order to move forward on more important issues.”
Just as the Iraq Genocide Project could be ended immediately with a SIMPLE majority vote by both houses of congress to rescind the congressional authorization passed in 2002. And the president cannot veto.
Just as Guantanamo could be closed immediately and Bush’s insane blood lust could be curtailed completely by a SIMPLE majority vote by both houses of congress to rescind the AUMF. And the president cannot veto.
These are the truths that Reid, Emmanuel, Pelosi, Clinton, and Obama avoid criminally and do everything within their power to deceive you on.
These are also the truths that evaporate completely any semblance of “plausible deniability” that the American public, and the “progressive” community, have been using to deny their complicity in the heinous actions and activities of this nation.
Progressive indeed.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHi Buck! I’m with you in that the Dems want to eliminate the Repuke Party and probably already have (at least the numbers are now indicating that); however, it’s now time to place elimination of Repukes and recruitment of Dems on the back burner because if they prioritize impeachment right now, they will kill two birds with one stone…..bring the Bush Crime Family to justice AND recruit more Dems. I’d say that the Republican Party is becoming our new “third party” and soon may become obsolete. Time for dems to reset priorities….
June 28th, 2007 at 1:22 pmCan you envision just how weak and absolutely incompetent Bush will appear (be) if Cheney somehow is forced to resign or is impeached? With Cheney being the force behind EVERYTHING in that Administration, Bush WILL be the emperor with no clothes. I think it would truly be revealing just how pathetic he is as a leader or a thinker or planner. He would absolutely shrink before our eyes.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:23 pmHi Zooey: What DOJ?? Methinks that branch is now a dinsaur, too.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:23 pm#34 That’s precisely how King George looked today….like a emperor in tatters.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:24 pm#32 I couldn’t agree with you more which is precisely why I don’t trust any of the presidential candidates now on the radar (and Thompson either!)…..nor anyone sitting in Congress right now. We KNOW they can change things and choose to not do so….This is why I’ve become Independent - because none of these clowns & jokers represent my views totally.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:26 pm#
I’m pretty sure a Special Prosecutor is appointed by the DoJ.
That ain’t happening….
Comment by Zooey — June 28, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
#
And even if Gonzales appointed one, he wouldn’t be able to remember why.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:26 pmAnd even if Gonzales appointed one, he wouldn’t be able to remember why.
Comment by Chris L — June 28, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
And Gonzales would probably hear from Cheney on who to appoint..
June 28th, 2007 at 1:29 pmBush is looking weaker and more pathetic all the time.
Comment by Grand Moff Texan
GREAT! Finally his outward appearance matches his inner ineptness.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:31 pm#37,
The sad truth that you describe is completely accurate but mostly ignored. That truth is that the government of the USA is no longer a representative government. As such is completely and wholly incompatible with the US Constitution, then the US Constitution through the actions of the people of the USA has been rendered obsolete and inapplicable.
The USA, because of the apathy and ignorance of it’s citizenry, is no longer a nation where the government is of, for, and by the people. Instead, the USA is now a nation where the people are of, for, and by the government. And the “people” have allowed this to happen.
Progressive indeed.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:36 pmFrom a WH presser this a.m., in the context of defending its invocation of executive priviledge and why the WH refused requests for voluntary questioning without oaths, but with a transcript. Earlier in the presser, the Senior Admin. Official said the WH rejected transcripts because it was a “perjury trap” (lying to Congress, oath or not is a crime).
MR. FRATTO: Thank you everyone. (Inaudible) reminder that the sourcing for the call is Senior Administration Official. We will release a transcript as soon as we have one ready.
END 10:30 A.M. EDT
Pretty ironic, no? Transcripts of lies to the American people are routine, yet when it comes to Congress, no can do. Someone (not Cheney) might get in trouble for lying.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:40 pmBush is looking weaker and more pathetic all the time.
And that’s what you liberals like. Our commander-in-chief looking weak and pathetic. Why don’t you contact your local Russian embassy or consulate and start working for them?
June 28th, 2007 at 1:43 pm#17 - “CHENEY 2008!!!” Comment by PRIMVS INTER PARES — June 28, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
When you’re sick and tired of voting for the lessor of two evils, vote for the biggest evil of them all!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:45 pm#43 - “And that’s what you liberals like. Our commander-in-chief looking weak and pathetic.”
Pres. Bush looks weak and pathetic all on his own! He needs NO help looking pathetic at all!
“Why don’t you contact your local Russian embassy or consulate and start working for them?” Comment by Gaydar3000 — June 28, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Actually, a fascist regime is what the Neo-Cons want for the US. They shoud go work for Russia.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pmWhy don’t you contact your local Russian embassy or consulate and start working for them?
Comment by Gaydar3000
I just like our pResident to appear as he truly is: A wimpy, whiny, LOSER.
Now here’s a fair rebuttal to such a childish taunt:
“NYAH-NYAH-NYAH-NYAH-NYAH!!!”
June 28th, 2007 at 1:51 pm#43 And that’s what you liberals like. Our commander-in-chief looking weak and pathetic. Why don’t you contact your local Russian embassy or consulate and start working for them?
Comment by Gaydar3000
Two points here; dubya was never MY leader, I thought he was a total putz when he ran 3 oil companies into the ground and was a laughingstock of a Gub’ner of Texas. And two, he has NEVER been strong, he is a dry-drunk who had Daddy buy him everything, including those oil companies he wrecked, the Ranger baseball ownership, his diploma from Yale and his Vietnam-avoiding AWOL stint in the AF National Guard.
But I am sure he is still your hero, right?
So nobody had to do anything to help him be what he is: a
June 28th, 2007 at 1:53 pm#45 Democrat Soldier - nice retort. Sometimes things are said that are just so wrong they must be addressed.
I doubt anyone here wants the president to look “weak and pathetic” (veritas almost made me feel sorry for him! almost).
For one thing, that potentially puts this country in a vulnerable position and for another thing it could make him do something desperate! Like bombing Iran to make himself feel big and strong again!
June 28th, 2007 at 1:55 pmHi Zooey: What DOJ?? Methinks that branch is now a dinsaur, too.
Comment by veritas — June 28, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
Yep, which means “We, the People” have no legal representation.
See the above thread to see how a so-called special investigator works out in this admin.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pmI guess Not Canadian doesn’t agree with me - each to his/her own! :~>
June 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pmBush has looked like a loser ever since he sat on his butt when they told him the country was under attack.
Just think: If 9/11 had been an attack by a foreign army, the U.S. would be a thing of the past.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:58 pmBushCo is painting itself into a corner.
June 28th, 2007 at 1:59 pm#45: If you really are a soldier, how dare you say that your commander-in-chief is weak and pathetic?
June 28th, 2007 at 2:00 pmLike bombing Iran to make himself feel big and strong again!
Big, strong and engorged…
June 28th, 2007 at 2:02 pmSilly silly gayman - Does being a “soldier” mean that you have to say the emperor has clothes on even when he’s standing there naked?!
June 28th, 2007 at 2:10 pmThis Jonathan Turley fellow is great. I’ve seen him on MSNBC before and he seems to really know his stuff AND he calls it like he sees it. Needless to say, he isn’t happy about the corruption of the constitution he sees these days…
June 28th, 2007 at 2:16 pm#53 If you really are a soldier, how dare you say that your commander-in-chief is weak and pathetic? Comment by Gaydar3000
I am a combat vet who served under Nixon in Vietnam and HE was weak and pathetic, but at least he never strut around in a flight suit with a cod piece to try to make up for his lack of manhood. This clown is not onlhy weak and pathetic, he is a world menace.
I always believe the best leaders lead by example, so that leav es Dubya off the hook: He couldn’t lead a one man parade or anything Daddy didn’t buy for him or anything that Rover and Dafrth didn’t let him.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:17 pm#56 Comment by margaret
Turley used to be on Faux NoNooz but he wouldn’t play patsy to Bill O’Lielly or Haniteehee, so they canned him.
Which is good for msnbc.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:20 pmThe House, not the Senate, starts impeachment proceedings. Senate then votes (63 votes needed) to impeach.
House has vowed not to… but they better damn well change their mind.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:24 pmDoes being a “soldier†mean that you have to say the emperor has clothes on even when he’s standing there naked?!
Apparently you’re not familiar with the military life. If your commander-in-chief (or anyone else above you in the chain of command) tells you to say that emperor has clothes on, that’s what you’re going to do.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:25 pmUpside00 - thanks for the info. Are you one of those brave souls who watches FAUX so that we don’t have to? : 0
And I agree with you that Bush is a world menace. When he looks pathetic I get worried….more worried I should say.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:27 pm“Apparently you’re not familiar with the military life. If your commander-in-chief (or anyone else above you in the chain of command) tells you to say that emperor has clothes on, that’s what you’re going to do.
Comment by Gaydar3000 — June 28, 2007 @ 2:25 pm”
Apparently YOU are NOT familiar with military life……
They CAN’T tell you to say something….. They can ORDER it, but if you feel it is an ILLEGAL order and can support that you don’t HAVE to say and/or do it.
Quit trying to be an ARMCHAIR Military person!!!!
June 28th, 2007 at 2:28 pmNo, I don’t like to see the Commander-in-Chhief looking pathetic.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pmThat’s why I want him replaced. He’s a disgrace to the position.
Nope, not familiar with the military life. Being forced to lie like that isn’t my thing. Didn’t like the corporate life either, where if you don’t conform and stroke the executives’ egos you didn’t get far. I’d rather speak truthfully and let my work speak for itself.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:30 pmMargaret - I just got back from a trip to western and eastern Europe and it is strange to see how pathetic he looks to the rest of the world. I must have been asked a dozen times when they found out I was from the US; How did you let him get elected the SECOND time? I had to tell them I have the same question…. every day!!
June 28th, 2007 at 2:36 pmThey can ORDER it, but if you feel it is an ILLEGAL order and can support that you don’t HAVE to say and/or do it.
If you feel it’s an illegal order and refuse it, you can kiss your career goodbye.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:37 pmUside00 - I hear ya! I have relatives in Canada and to hear them you’d think that it was all my fault that Bush got elected (twice!!). He worries and appalls most of the planet!
June 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pm“If you feel it’s an illegal order and refuse it, you can kiss your career goodbye.
Comment by Gaydar3000 — June 28, 2007 @ 2:37 pm”
WHO CARES……
That was NOT what YOU were arguing…….
I would rather loose my career than my moral compass…..
June 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pmHow did you let him get elected the SECOND time? I had to tell them I have the same question…. every day!!
June 28th, 2007 at 2:39 pmAs a European, I must comment on this. It is kind of embarrassing that our people keep pestering Americans with that kind of questions.
#68: Pfft. It’s clear that you’ve never held a comfortable, well-paying job.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:40 pmIf you feel it’s an illegal order and refuse it, you can kiss your career goodbye.
Comment by Gaydar3000 — June 28, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
You could also make a deal with the devil but you might miss your soul.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:42 pm“This is not a mere exercise relating to a particular event. This is an exercise in an attempt to protect the prerogatives of the president for this president and for future presidents.â€
As long as the future president is a Republic. If I remember rightly, the Republics screamed bloody murder when Clinton tried to call Executive Privilege.
They are such hypocrites, those Republics.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmKudos to you Upside00 for not losing your temper.
Respect.
No more posts from Gaydar3000.
June 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmMargaret - I just got back from a trip to western and eastern Europe and it is strange to see how pathetic he looks to the rest of the world. I must have been asked a dozen times when they found out I was from the US; How did you let him get elected the SECOND time? I had to tell them I have the same question…. every day!!
It’s not a question for me how they got elected a second time..
June 28th, 2007 at 3:48 pmhttp://video.google.com/ videoplay?docid=3954858769441262005
Now, Congress has NO EXCUSE from pursuing a full Congressional and-or criminal investigation of the world’s LARGEST crime syndicate.
BushCo is doing NOTHING to protect the Office of the President. He is doing everything to cover for the syndicate. Their failure to refuse the
subpoena is an admission of their high guilt.
Book ‘em.
June 28th, 2007 at 3:49 pmYou know, to me, to be called Commander in Chief (as people keep reminding his title) you have to earn it and you have to demonstrate that you deserve it. You earn it by being elected by a majority of the American people. You have to earn the respect of the office by your actions and decisions on behalf of the American people, not demand it. I don’t believe Bush earned it (with fair elections and without resorting to seriously dirty and illegal tricks and manipulations), and he certainly has not proved that he deserves it or is worthy of it by demonstrating over and over again his penchant for his habitual abuse of power and his need for secrecy to hide his misdeeds and his constant lies.
June 28th, 2007 at 4:01 pmI believe through serious misdeeds of those in his Administration the last two elections were stolen. I believe that is what the firing of all the US Attorneys will turn out to be all about in the long run.
These guys are not deserving of any respect. They are deserving of being charged with criminal offenses. We need to restore integrity to the office of the President AND the Vice President AND our Constitution. if they are charged, I think it is a no-brainer Gonzales will also be gone (along with Rove and others).
SCOTUS won’t act. Chief J Roberts will find a lack of standing - on some ephemiral gound.
His rationale: He’s brilliant. We’re all too stupid to understand.
Bottom line: BS. Impeachment is our sole recourse.
June 29th, 2007 at 12:23 amI wonder, if you impeach the pres (tweedle-dee), the vp (evil eye) and the AG (bush-mump-kin), can you negate their appointments?
No worries, Justice John (tush kiss), Monster.com is lookin’ for a few good men
Smack face & eat a peach : )
June 29th, 2007 at 12:41 amThis is far from the only crime that was ordered by Bush. How many life sentences will Bush serve for Iraq? 3000? Moronic leadership by moronic democracy for moronic people.
June 29th, 2007 at 8:17 amThis is far from the only crime that was ordered by Bush. How many life sentences will Bush serve for Iraq? 3000? Moronic leadership by moronic democracy for moronic people. We really need to convert to a communist system, run by progressives, who know best.
June 30th, 2007 at 7:16 pm