Think Progress

London bomb tactics linked to Iraq.

By Amanda Terkel on Jun 30th, 2007 at 11:46 am

London bomb tactics linked to Iraq.

On Friday, London was “gripped by a terrorist threat” when “police found two Mercedes sedans packed with gasoline, nails and gas canisters.” The New York Times notes that the “idea of a multiple attack using car bombs — a departure from the backpack suicide attacks of the London bombings of July 2005 — raised concerns among security experts that jihadist groups linked to Al Qaeda may have imported tactics more familiar in Iraq.”



161 Responses to “London bomb tactics linked to Iraq.”

  1. Zooey says:

    Any connection to Iraq and Al Qaeda is pure speculation.

    They have “concerns,” for f*ck’s sake — no evidence.

    Scare tactics.


  2. Jay Randal says:

    There is ZERO evidence of any link to Al-Qaeda.


  3. Dr Benway says:

    “may have imported tactics more familiar in Iraq”…with one big exception. The folks in Iraq sadly know what they are doing, while in London

    the device could not have detonated. Not under any circumstances. You see, the terrorist wannabe clown who built it left out a crucial element: an oxidiser. The device was pure pre-teen boy fantasy.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/29/more_fear_biscuits_please/


  4. Tobey Tall says:

    heres what wrong with this news

    1/ why was the camping gas cannister outside of the car on the street

    2/ why have there been no factual reports on the contents of the car

    3/ the second car no reports of anything except petrol so far

    4/ why did the driver crash the car and not simply park the car

    5/ why has the news for the last 36 hours been blaming Baghdad type car bombing WHEN they could tell us the contents of the car

    6/ why say on the BBC that “according to American sources they have a clear image from CCTV of the driver”

    were being fed shit so far


  5. Jay Randal says:

    The attempted car bombings in the UK are very sloppy operation and the gasoline would have burned the cars up, but not blown up any buildings. The UK police would be wise to investigate this as more of a sick prank than a actual Islamic terrorist attack.


  6. Phredd says:

    Please see Glenn Greenwald’s post this morning on the verbatim use of military press releases planted in mainstream news reports, especially on al Queda-Iraq links. I suspect this is another example, and I’m surprised that you post it without question.

    That Press Release, with no investigation or modification, immediately became the headlines and lead paragraphs of every major American media outlet. Our news organizations, which claim to have learned so many valuable lessons from their profound failures in the run-up to the Iraq war, “reported” on this incident by doing one thing and one thing only: reading the Press Release and then copying it down and reporting it as Truth. Just look at a small sampling of what was produced as a result of this mindless media recitation:

    Click on the link to read the whole thing.


  7. Tobey Tall says:

    also why did the guy run off and leave the back door open ????

    thats no way to have a build up of gas ???

    I think they will catch laa laa and tinky winky eventually,/B>


  8. Bob (not the hacker) says:

    How many times have we been down this road? Literally 1000s of times. Every 55 gallon drum of fertilizer, or perfume that was found in Iraq was WMD, for 3 days… Every time bush needs a diversion, some terrorist plan is discovered and reported breathlessly, for three days, remember the “plan” in NJ a few months ago? What became of that? Remember the plan to blow up the Sears Tower? Remember Padilla?


  9. Jay Randal says:

    This reminds me of the bogus terror plot in which some guys were going to use metal cutting torches to take down a bridge in the US. Problem was that it would have taken days to do it, so basically impossible. This kind of stuff are pranks and not terrorism.


  10. b42late says:

    Just another false flag attack.
    Don’t believe it?
    Please check out this video – it will completely change how you perceive all of this bogus news:

    Watch Zeitgeist Final Cut – Part 3 here:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=497251819335380093

    Then watch Zeigeist Final Cut – Part 2 here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7160790539111319889

    Then watch Part 3 AGAIN so it really sinks in.

    Do you finally get it now?

    GOOD – Now do something about it and make sure every single person you know sees this and shares it.
    Presidential Directive 51 signed last month.
    The fuse has been lit – get ready for the sucker punch – America is going down.
    Wondering why Bush is moving to Paraguay and why Halliburton is moving to Dubai?
    Don’t be the last one to find out – watch this video.
    Think your “money” is going to insulate you from what’s ahead?
    Sorry to burst your bubble – please watch this video and find out why you are going to be in for a very sad awakening.
    Thank you and please share this information before it’s too late.


  11. gummitch says:

    What amazes me is that the people posting here know more about the car bomb attacks then the British police do, based entirely on what they’ve pieced together from press reports. How do you all do that? It’s like a super power.

    The Brits have been dealing with bombs in London for decades, thanks to the IRA. I’m inclined to trust their judgment on these car bombs over the “experts” posting here.


  12. Texas Democrat says:

    This can’t be, we’ve exported Democracy to Iraq, everything is supposed to be A.O.K., must be wrong.


  13. Tobey Tall says:

    Yes the goverment has cried wolf far too many times to believe anything they say – thats why people of the world believe Putin to Bush by 2 to 1

    spin spin spin until were all dizzy and apathy sets in us


  14. b42late says:

    The UK is always terrorizing itself – this is nothing new.
    Did you know they were running “drills” on the day of the London 7-7 bombings that were identical to what actually happened that day?
    Yeah – that’s right – just like the same coincidental “drills” that were being run on 911 in the US.
    Unbelievable?! Yes – it sure is – but here – check it out for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=E1HPNpxbfX8
    (1:30 minutes)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flypeg17ZsM
    (4:18 minutes)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1-YA0gbSZk
    (4:47 minutes)

    Here are some articles on the subject:

    http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/071105Watson/071105watson.html
    http://wagnews.blogspot.com/2005/08/pied-piper-of-london-bombing.html
    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/coincidence+of+bomb+exercises/109010

    Okay – Have I got your attention yet?
    Because it gets even worse – read these:

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2005/200905stagedterror.htm

    http://www.cryingwolf.deconstructingiraq.org.uk/

    http://www.rense.com/general74/ssno.htm

    Okay – starting to get the picture yet?
    Then please take the time to watch these Zeitgeist videos linked above and share all this information.
    How much longer do you want to be a chump waiting for the sucker punch?
    And then check out these too:

    “Oil Smoke and Mirrors”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8677389869548020370

    “The Third Stage”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5224963246223576086

    “Empire of Oil: Hidden History of 911”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6702050570069604257

    “Hijacking Catastrophe: 911, Fear, and the Selling of the American Empire”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3320922145165829917

    “America: Freedom to Fascism”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

    “Terrorstorm”
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230

    Sorry for the long post – but for any readers who are not on board yet – please make your weekend count and check out this information – Thank You.


  15. Tobey Tall says:

    gummitch – I am British ( Scottish ) and witnessed the biggest ever IRA bomb in London that blew the city of london to smithereens from a towerblock in South london

    And im telling you, this bomb was Not Al Queda But was the doing of a ruthless gang of children properganderists called Tinky Winky, Dipsy , Laa Laa and Po


  16. curmudgeon says:

    If these claims are actually true, I wonder if the Brits still believe that they are “fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here.”
    How long will it take before additional information surfaces casting doubt on the official story, which will be either underreported or not reported at all?


  17. wlgriffi says:

    I just turned my TV OFF.


  18. Tobey Tall says:

    99% of British think that going into Iraq has made us less safe

    only 1 % have no brains at all


  19. gummitch says:

    And im telling you, this bomb was Not Al Queda But was the doing of a ruthless gang of children properganderists called Tinky Winky, Dipsy , Laa Laa and Po

    Comment by Tobey Tall

    We’re reading very different press, Tobey. I don’t see anyone disputing the fact that this was amateur hour, although the report I read this morning indicated that the guy caught on CCTV was someone that had been questioned in connection with a previous bombing.

    I agree, absolutely, this is not Al Qaeda, but I see no reason to doubt that the intent was to blow up Londoners and no reason to doubt that the motivation was in sympathy with Middle East terrorism. Just because they were inept doesn’t mean they weren’t sincere.


  20. katy says:

    instead of an actual bomb,
    could this have been the INGREDIENTS for a bomb?…
    on the way to the bomb making lab or whatever…

    just curious…


  21. GSD says:

    It is obvious that these alleged bombers must be graduates from the Al Qaeda equivalent of Regents College.

    Bin Laden is just like Bush, he’s been hiring incompetent stooges who merely mouth his beliefs.

    Ayaman al-Zawahiri is Arabic for Alberto Gonzales.

    -GSD


  22. Mr. Big says:

    This bomb tactic may be linked to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, which was an attack Bill Clinton did almost nothing about.


  23. Tobey Tall says:

    instead of an actual bomb,
    could this have been the INGREDIENTS for a bomb?…
    on the way to the bomb making lab or whatever…

    just curious…

    ————————-

    This was the work of a Drunk Plumber on his way back from work


  24. Krazny says:

    A far more valid question, will be how long before fighters from Iraq, show up in the UK, and across Europe? This attack, and the one just reported on the Glasgow airport may have been amateur hour, but an experienced operative, who spent a year in Iraq making IED’s will quickly change that. The war in Iraq has made us less safe, has built a breeding ground for want-a-be’s and is providing a fertile training ground that weeds out the weak.

    Already in Europe many countries have are worried about the rise in attacks, from returning Jihadists. Bush has not only made us less safe, but has increased recruiting, and has promoted cause of muslim extremists.



  25. GSD says:

    “This bomb tactic may be linked to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, which was an attack Bill Clinton did almost nothing about.

    Comment by Mr. Big — June 30, 2007′

    More evidence of the Coulterfication of the modern day Bush/Coulter Republicans.

    When the facts are not on their side, they lie.

    All of the people involved in the 1993 WTC bombing have been convicted and jailed for life.

    Let’s not forget that after Bin Laden declared war on American Republicans chose to launch a partisan attack on the US president in a time of declared terrorist war and the Bush/Coulter Republicans screamed “wag the dog” when largest and most direct attack to ever have been launched at Bin Laden was executed by Bill Clinton.

    -GSD


  26. Tobey Tall says:

    Censorship By NPR
    This link goes to a blog referencing a Frontline documentary on the alleged Toronto bomb plot, in which I participated.
    http://blog.throwawayyourtv.com/2007/06/cracking-toronto-terror-cell.html

    it is not a great documentary, giving too much implicit credence to an extremely dodgy informant, and ignoring the crucial agent provocateur aspects of the case. This series is produced out of Canada, and shown first there, and then in the US by NPR. The original documentary did have the saving grace of looking at what drives young Muslims to extremism, particularly in US and UK foreign policy. That is where I came in.

    However, when NPR came to reshow this in the US, they insisted on a complete recut, taking out all the balance (including all of me) and turning it purely into an exercise in fear – those Muslims are planning to blow you up because they are plain evil.


  27. piltdown says:

    Yeah, because before Al-CIAdah in Iraq, NOBODY had ever used car-bombs.

    Yes, it was laden with explosives. A whole tank full.


  28. gummitch says:

    Glasgow Airport? Jeebus, I was just there a couple of months ago. WTF? They’re attacking Scotland?!! Now I’m getting mad.


  29. Kay says:

    This is just fear-mongering at it’s very worst to keep people feeling : “please protect me even if it means taking away more of my civil liberties”

    Funny, how Brown takes office and *bang* a terror alert.

    Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy night”
    -Bette Davis, “All About Eve”


  30. Chris says:

    Based on the theme of the posts here today I think I just got a sneak preview of how the Democrats will be handling terrorism should the gain control next year. By down playing any attempted attacks and saying the terrorist were just amatuers. Wonder how that will work out?


  31. Mr. Big says:

    “All of the people involved in the 1993 WTC bombing have been convicted and jailed for life.”

    Not Bin Laden. Not any leader of al qaeda. Bill Clinton did nothing to mitigate the threat of al qaeda through his 8 years in office.


  32. b42late says:

    Krazny – A far far far more valid question is:
    “Who are the REAL terrorists?”

    Watch Zeitgeist Final Cut – Part 3 here:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=497251819335380093

    Then watch Zeigeist Final Cut – Part 2 here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7160790539111319889

    Google “USS Liberty”
    Google “Douglas Feith + A Clean Break”
    Google “Douglas Feith + Iraq Intel”

    Do your own research – and come to your own conclusions.

    Who is beating the war drums against Iran and why and on what basis?
    Why all the lies?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ
    (2:10 minutes)

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5866
    http://www.juancole.com:80/2006/05/hitchens-hacker-and-hitchens.html
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100652.html

    What can we do?
    What if when they call for the next war – nobody came?


  33. Texas Democrat says:

    katy,

    There were a lot of nails strewn about the car = frag bomb


  34. richb says:

    new attack at Glasgow Airport, SUV rams into terminal and explodes….seeing this on MSNBC at 12:30 Eastern Time


  35. Krazny says:

    Bush didn’t do anything to mitigate the threat of Al Qaeda for 9 months, then when the largest terrorist attack on US soil (9/11) happened, he abandoned the hunt for Bin Laden, to attack Saddam Hussein, who had nothing to do with the attack.

    Please take you red herring elsewhere.


  36. barfly says:

    By down playing any attempted attacks and saying the terrorist were just amatuers. Wonder how that will work out?

    Comment by Chris

    When America is attacked again, it will be apparent republicans shot down any attempts at controlling the borders, so they won’t have any ammunition to use against the dems. That’s how it will “work out” – unless there are no attacks.


  37. Texas Democrat says:

    Mr. Big,

    How’s Dubya doing in his sixth year of getting Bin laden “dead or alive” last I heard Dubya said he really doesn’t matter all that much, aint that some flip flopping spin. Ya know several years have passed since president Clinton held office, what has the all hat cowboy done about terrorist numero uno?


  38. Mr. Big says:

    “Bush didn’t do anything to mitigate the threat of Al Qaeda for 9 months”

    This is largely true. But compare 9 months with Clinton’s 8 years of inaction and it’s no comparison. Clinton was offered Bin Laden by the Sudan 3 times, and he turned them down, probably for poltical reasons.

    To Bush’s credit, he has put us on offense against the terrorists. Bill Clinton treated terrorism as a crime.


  39. Mr. Big says:

    “How’s Dubya doing in his sixth year of getting Bin laden “dead or alive” ”

    Bin Laden is in hiding now after 9/11. He was not during Clinton’s 8 years in office. The Sudan offered to turn him over. Clinton refused the offer.

    There is a CIA video during the Clinton years showing Bin Laden walking around, and Clinton wouldn’t authorize the CIA to take a shot at him with a drone.


  40. Texas Democrat says:

    Mr. Big,

    Go away with your RNC talking points, sell crazy somewhere else.


  41. MsJoanne says:

    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.

    Benjamin Franklin


  42. barfly says:

    “Not Bin Laden. Not any leader of al qaeda. Bill Clinton did nothing to mitigate the threat of al qaeda through his 8 years in office.”

    Comment by Mr. Big

    I guess Reagan’s arming terrorists has paid dividends, eh? They saw how cowardly “the leader of the free world” actually was, and they thought all Americans were like him. If only he had had the political will to not to negotiate with terrorists, we wouldn’t be paying the price for his perfidy decades later.


  43. Krazny says:

    I am not getting involved in your red herring mr. Big, this whole issue has been discussed over and over again. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the facts, instead of the Rush/RNC/Fox/Coulter talking points.

    More on topic, if Bush is on the offense as you put it, why is Bin Ladens still free? Why is radical extremism on the rise, and why are we in Iraq, when the the 9/11 Hijackers were largely Saudi?


  44. Texas Democrat says:

    Mr. Big,

    As is usual for a Conserv666ative you don’t answer questions. Bin laden was trapped in the Tora Bora mountains while we were IN COUNTRY not a globe away and Dubyas incompetence let him get away. To hell with your skewed version of history.

    Pick up a gun and get in the fight tough guy.


  45. Jay Randal says:

    So is it true a bomb exploded at Glasgow airport today?


  46. Mr. Big says:

    “I guess Reagan’s arming terrorists has paid dividends, eh?”

    I agree with arming the contras in my heart. But I disagree with Reagan pulling out of Beirut.


  47. JG says:

    I waited all day yesterday before writing on this. My first instinct yesterday when I heard this story was that it was yet another staged occurence. Too convenient on the heels of VERY bad press for the WH and the first day of a new Prime Minister in England who doesn’t necessarily support the policies of GW Bush.
    I didn’t write anything because I thought perhaps I was getting too cynical. The bombs in London were discovered but hadn’t gone off. Perhaps it was a genuine find. But, it wasn’t even clear if they were actually bombs.. Yet it took over ALL the news of the day and won’t stop now for some time.
    My first thought was “How convenient..”. Mind you, I would NEVER want any bombs to go off anywhere and I would never wish anyone harm – ever. But, bombs that DIDN’T go off are now going to direct ALL conversation and news cycles for days. How convenient.

    The newscaster went nuts. These were the messages:

    1. The terrorists are still out there and you still need to be very, very afraid..
    2. They want to kill us for our freedoms
    3. That is why we must fight them there so they WON’T come here
    4. (and I really heard this said) what happens if the Dems win the WH? Are they strong enough on terror??

    The other thing I heard was Keira Phillips on CNN talking about how fortunate there were surveillance cameras posted all over in London so they could study the tapes (or whatever). Then I heard her say something about the need for surveillance in personal residences so that people could feel safer. I almost fell out of my chair. Maybe I heard it wrong (I was in the next room and was only halfways listening), but I don’t think so. It was straight out of “1984″. Big Brother in every home. Man, was Orwell a creator of a work of fiction? Or, was he a psychic or a prophet? Or, was he giving us a very real warning of what was coming?

    People CANNOT sellout their brains and their very souls in order for their government to make them feel safe again. Especially when it is the government, and the newscasters, that are working overtime to make and keep people feeling AFRAID!

    It is like all of this is scripted! I mean, maybe it really did happen the way they are reporting, but why is it ALWAYS so convenient and incredibly TIMELY!?
    Again, this wonderful reminder by Olbermann on
    “The Nexus of Terror”:
    http://www.crooksandliars.com/ 2007/ 06/ 04/ olbermann-the-nexus-of-politics-and-terror-2/
    Is this possibly set up in order to bring people back into line so they can continue on with this plan? I know this was in London, but GB and the US sure seem connected on all of this stuff..

    Oh, and Giuliani wasted NO TIME in jumping on the ‘TERROR’ bandwagon and spinning it to his advantage… Sick..


  48. Krazny says:

    Doesn’t look like a bomb exploded, but a car with maybe full propane tanks was driven into the terminal, and caught on fire. Two men were arrested, possibly of Asian decent. Doesn’t sound like they have a very clear picture. Also they are unsure if it has anything to do with what happened in London yesterday.


  49. barfly says:

    Jay:

    “Detectives hunted Saturday for suspects who abandoned two explosives-packed cars in the heart of London’s nightlife district, reviewing closed circuit television footage and scouring the vehicles for clues.

    Amid fears of further attacks, a burning sport utility vehicle crashed at full speed into the terminal building at Glasgow airport in Scotland, police and witnesses said.”


  50. Mr. Big says:

    More on topic, if Bush is on the offense as you put it, why is Bin Ladens still free?

    He’s probably in Pakistan, where for political reasons we just can’t go in with guns blazing.

    He’s not leading any parades. He’s in hiding now, which he largely wasn’t during Clinton’s 8 years in office.

    To Bush’s credit, he has drasticaly reduced the membership of al qaeda. 2/3’s of the leadership has been captured or killed.

    Even Hillary has admitted we are safer now than before 9/11.

    “Why is radical extremism on the rise, and why are we in Iraq, when the the 9/11 Hijackers were largely Saudi?”

    We are at war with radical islam. They understand it’s a war.

    Why did we go into Afghanistan is the 9/11 hijackers were largely Saudi?


  51. Jay Randal says:

    I just read a press release and Glasgow airport had a SUV that crashed and burned at the airport, so basically an accident of some kind, but the UK government wants to turn it into a terrorist attack.


  52. BottomBoy says:

    I’ve got to admire how the “special relationship” still applies.

    Wonderful propaganda. Wonderful. And I say this as a die-hard GOP operative.


  53. Mr. Big says:

    “Bin laden was trapped in the Tora Bora mountains while we were IN COUNTRY not a globe away and Dubyas incompetence let him get away.”

    He obvioiusly wasn’t trapped, because he slipped away.

    But which is easier: Trying to find somebody hidden in the moutains of tora bora, or just recieving him into custody from the Sudan?


  54. barfly says:

    “I agree with arming the contras in my heart. But I disagree with Reagan pulling out of Beirut.”

    Comment by Mr. Big

    Reagan armed Iranians, who were holding Americans captive – until Reagan sold them weapons. What’s the matter? Can’t wrap your head around the fact that Reagan did sell weapons to Iranian terrorists, while telling the american people “we never negotiate with terrorists?”


  55. Krazny says:

    Uh we went into afghanistan, because Bin laden, tall fellow wears white was based out of there. or did you forget about him.

    LOL you have many excuses for you dear deciders failures. Perhaps the reason Bin Laden is still out there, is because Bush was far more interested in Iraqi oil then anything else.

    hehe you aren’t a very smart opponent.


  56. Jay Randal says:

    Burning cars are not a terrorist attack, but claiming it as such seems to scare some people.


  57. GSD says:

    At least Bush has made nice with Muammar Khaddaffy after he ordered the bombing of a Pan Am plane over Scotland!

    That shows the terrorists that we won’t reward “bad behavior”!

    P.S. Nice of Bush to negotiate one on one with North Korea too!

    -GSD


  58. Jay Randal says:

    This whole thing seems to be an attempt to undermine the new PM in the UK and get the Brits to bemoan Tony Blair being gone.


  59. Man says:

    “He said the men in the car got out and started throwing petrol about – that must be how it caught fire,” he said.

    Is that what you call an accident. I call it a terrorist attack!


  60. Mr. Big says:

    “Reagan armed Iranians, who were holding Americans captive – until Reagan sold them weapons.”

    Our hostigages were returned because of Reagan. What did Jimmy Carter do to get them returned?


  61. JG says:

    This whole thing seems to be an attempt to undermine the new PM in the UK and get the Brits to bemoan Tony Blair being gone.
    Comment by Jay Randal — June 30, 2007 @ 1:12 pm

    I was just thinking the same thing.. Poor guy. Rough first couple of days.
    What is his position on fighting this “war on terror”?


  62. Mr. Big says:

    “because Bush was far more interested in Iraqi oil then anything else.”

    Saudi Arabia has more oil than Iraq. It would have been far easier to invade Saudi Arabia and steal their oil than it was for Iraq, if what you say is true. But it isn’t.


  63. Jay Randal says:

    Man > LOL throwing gasoline around is strange, because that can cause a fire, but not a bomb blast. Sounds like arsonists gone goofy.


  64. Tobey Tall says:

    let me explain

    two guys smoking while driving a car , one of them farts and catches fire , other guy swerves into building

    see nothing to do with terror attacks


  65. Mr. Big says:

    “Nice of Bush to negotiate one on one with North Korea too!”

    Just continuing the work of your hero, Maddy Albright.


  66. Jay Randal says:

    Big > Bush is a pal of the Saudis, so he would never attack them.


  67. Man says:

    Tobey, how many times have you seen someone ignite because he farts? You’re just trying to dismiss this incident as something harmless.


  68. Mr. Big says:

    “Uh we went into afghanistan, because Bin laden, tall fellow wears white was based out of there. or did you forget about him.”

    And we went into Iraq because of a killer: Saddam, and his sons. Forget about them?


  69. Ella Fent-Seid says:

    After six years of Bush’s war on terror, if it was anywhere close to being successful, there wouldn’t be ANY threats, attempts or near-misses.

    Bush was given unlimited resources, the complete elimination of any of those pesky rights of citizens, and a 17-page menu of secret surveillance programs to spy on anybody, anywhere. With everything that he wanted (and got), and in a country that is under 24-hour camera surveillance watching people’s every move, cars were stolen from Scotland, filled with explosives, then driven to the center of London without anyone suspecting anything.

    This is not the way to make our lives safe and secure.


  70. Krazny says:

    Not really, if the US had invaded Saudi Arabia, it would have forced the world to turn against us. The SA isn’t run by a despotic madman, at least not one in the same caliber as Hussien. Also the SA is our ally, and “friendly” though I use that term loosely.

    Really what needs to be done, is to stop or reduce our use of oil, to the point that we don’t need anything externally to maintain our energy needs. Then we can wipe the sand of the middle east from our boots, and let them kill each other, instead of funding the very radicals attempting to kill us.

    Reagan selling arms to the Iranians was illegal. I realize as your super deity. Reagan is sancrosant, but he was still a bad president, and an idiot. His only saving grace was, he was a nice guy.

    Read the PNAC links sometimes they had this whole thing mapped out.


  71. JG says:

    I think the point isn’t about stealing the oil as much as controlling how much oil is put out there so they can control the price thus making bazillions of dollars off the consumers.


  72. Texas Democrat says:

    Mr. Big,

    Raygun negotiated with terrorists to win the release of our hostages


  73. GSD says:

    “because Bush was far more interested in Iraqi oil then anything else.”

    Saudi Arabia has more oil than Iraq. It would have been far easier to invade Saudi Arabia and steal their oil than it was for Iraq, if what you say is true. But it isn’t.

    Comment by Mr. Big — June 30, 2007

    Mr. Big shows his lack of political savvy here. It is highly likely that much of the Muslim world would have responded very unfavorably to a US invasion of the nation that houses the revered Islamic holy sites of Mecca and Medina.

    In other words, IT WOULD’T HAVE BEEN EASIER TO ATTACK SAUDI ARABIA, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH HARDER.

    Next lame talking point to be shot down in flames please.

    -GSD


  74. Jay Randal says:

    Man > calm down. The alleged bomb attacks in the UK are the dumbest pranks of nincompoops ever devised.


  75. Krazny says:

    And we went into Iraq because of a killer: Saddam, and his sons. Forget about them?

    Comment by Mr. Big — June 30, 2007 @ 1:19 pm

    Not in the least, but there are many despotic regimes around the world, including our one of our biggest trading partners China, not even counting most of Africa, a fair bit of central and South America. Why Iraq? Why not get bin Laden track down his network and cut off the money? You cannot fight terrorism with full scale military invasions, it doesn’t work. We are bleeding money, our military is overextended, and we are deeply in debt to a communist nation. However we need to stay the course? Just how stupid are you?


  76. Jay Randal says:

    I suppose every time a car crashes and burns somewhere it can now be called terrorism. That seems to lower the bar to the ground now.


  77. gummitch says:

    I just read a press release and Glasgow airport had a SUV that crashed and burned at the airport, so basically an accident of some kind, but the UK government wants to turn it into a terrorist attack.

    Comment by Jay Randal

    According to eye witness reports on the BBC site, the jeep was burning before it hit the airport, and there were two men in the vehicle who bailed out on impact. One was on fire and fought the police who arrived. Both men were led off in cuffs. Not the world’s sharpest terrorists, but scarcely “an accident.”

    So now I see two responses to these incidents. On one hand, we’ve got the “Holy crap, Al Qaedi is blowing up cars, vote for me!” and on the other hand, we’ve got the “that’s not a real bomb, this is all a ploy to scare us.”

    Great discourse. Just great.


  78. barfly says:

    “Our hostages were returned because of Reagan.”

    Comment by Mr. Big

    And we have paid the price for his political cowardice for decades. Would we have even been attacked at the World Trade Center, and on 9/11 if Reagan hadn’t shown how cowardly, and two-faced Americans (as exemplified by his cowardice) were? Look in the mirror if you want to see the real culprit: conservative cowardice and perfidy.


  79. GSD says:

    So why did Tony Blair leave Gordon Brown a terrorist mess. I mean if we use the Chimp’s 26% base logic, it is the fault of Tony Blair(the previous leader) for the terrorist attacks.

    -GSD


  80. JG says:

    And we went into Iraq because of a killer: Saddam, and his sons. Forget about them?
    Comment by Mr. Big — June 30, 2007 @ 1:19 pm

    Yes they were bad guys. There are lots of bad guys in lots of places. We don’t go attacking all of them.
    They had been planning this for some time. The secret Cheney Energy Task Force (officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco [before its merger with Phillips], Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc) met in secret meetings at the White House prior to 9/11. Documents uncovered by Judicial Watch concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force pre-9/11 contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as 2 charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” The documents are dated March 2001. Were they already planning on an invasion of Iraq and were they deciding how to divide it up?
    http://www.judicialwatch.org/iraqi-oilfield-pr.shtml


  81. Bart Simpson says:

    Is that what you call an accident. I call it a terrorist attack!

    Comment by Man — June 30, 2007 @ 1:12 pm

    No this is a terrorist attack:

    http://www.dispatch.co.za/2007/06/29/Foreign/abomb.html

    You know one done by real terrorists, not fabricated scare tactics.


  82. GSD says:

    A couple of losers drop their freebase crack pipe onto their bottle of gin and juice and it becomes a terrorist attack.

    -GSD


  83. Jay Randal says:

    That truck in California that burned under a bridge in California, collapsing the structure, could have been a terrorist attack, but instead was done by a sleepy driver who needed to get a motel room.


  84. Man says:

    Welcome to my ignore list.


  85. Mr. Big says:

    “In other words, IT WOULD’T HAVE BEEN EASIER TO ATTACK SAUDI ARABIA, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH HARDER.”

    lol, writing in all capitals does not make it true.

    Saudia Arabia would have folded like a tent, and we could have stolen their oil, if this were really about oil, which is isn’t.


  86. StinkyBritches says:

    What th HELL is it with these ignore lists?


  87. barfly says:

    Welcome to my ignore list.

    Comment by Man

    And welcome to my ridicule list…


  88. barfly says:

    Saudia Arabia would have folded like a tent, and we could have stolen their oil, if this were really about oil, which is isn’t.

    Comment by Mr. Big

    But “Bandar Bush” wouldn’t approve, so no invasion.


  89. Texas Democrat says:

    Bush is King Saud’s bitch that’s why we don’t invade them. The Bush crime family and the house of Saud goes back a long way. Remember George kissing the king?


  90. Jay Randal says:

    barfly > Bush lovers seem to go nuts at the mere mention of terrorism. Seems to scare the crap out of them. They have more chance of dying in a car crash, than from a real terrorist attack.


  91. gummitch says:

    That truck in California that burned under a bridge in California, collapsing the structure, could have been a terrorist attack, but instead was done by a sleepy driver who needed to get a motel room.

    Comment by Jay Randal

    The vehicle was reportedly burning before it hit the airport. More to the point, there is no place outside of Glasgow airport to “accidentally” drive at the speed necessary to cause a car to burst into flames. There’s a fairly narrow road (one-way traffic, IIRC) that has made several turns prior to the short straight stretch in front of the airport.

    I was just there, Jay. I picked up my hire car just across the road from where the Jeep crashed into the building.


  92. barfly says:

    “They have more chance of dying in a car crash, than from a real terrorist attack.”

    Comment by Jay Randal

    And as we near the next election, every car crash, stink-bomb prank and bank heist will be “evidence” of terrorism.


  93. Aneros says:

    I got my Aneros yesterday. I had been waiting for it with great anticipation. I started about 5:30p I put towels on the bad as read about and had everything ready. I used 10cc of KY jelly in a syrnge to inject into my rectom. I waited about 5 minutes walking around to distrubate it well. I lubed uo my new FRIEND and inserted. Not at all what I expected. It was not uncomfortable at all. I lay on my right side with my legs drawn up. After about 4 minutes of squeezing my spencter muscle something started happening. The automatic muscle contractions started. My body started shaking and it lasted maybe 45 sec. I thought “this can’t be all.” i DECIDED NOT TO STOP FOR AT LEAST 1 HOUR TO SEE WHAT HAPENED. i HAD 4 MORE SUCH EPISODES WITH EACH ONE GROWING STRONGER. I figured 5 was enough but i was gonna lay there and rest for a bit. After about 3 minutes after the last wave I noticed I started breathing harder. I could feel my lower abdomes start to quiver and then it started. HOLY COW!!! It must have lasted 3 minutes. I had to make myself breath. I thought i was going to pass out. After I was able to function again I got cleaned up in the shower. I FEEL GREAT!!! I woke this morning thinking I would be to sore to walk, but no such thing. Infact, I,m thinking of sneaking home early befor the wife gets home and have another session.


  94. marblex says:

    fake fake fake fake fake


  95. Jay Randal says:

    gummitch > the incident is very odd, but not a viable terrorist attack. Police would be wise to treat it as some kind of weird accident, before jumping to conclusion of being a terrorist act. Could be drunk Scotts doing a road rage thing.


  96. Tobey Tall says:

    considering Gordon brown nose has never ever stated his true beliefs on Iraq, apart from saying He aggrees with Blair on two occasions , These pathetic attempts at Terror give him justification to have a hardline stance with Iraq

    And now within 2 days of being in Office he can continue as Tony Blair

    a coincidence or is it New Goverment synchronization for ongoing conflicts


  97. big papa says:

    I feel SO fortunate…

    …that there are so many…

    …”stupid” terrorists…


  98. Not Canadian says:

    “Fightin’ em o’er thay-er, so weez don’t hav-ta here…”

    For the great manipulators of fear (those in power), there’s no difference between a “real terrorist” threat, or a wannabe, copy-cat act. The results are the same, and ALWAYS in their favor.

    “The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they’re being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
    -Nazi Reich Marshall Hermann Goering at the Nuremburg War Trials

    Never forget:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=qxhIkzTg14M


  99. Krazny says:

    Jay,

    reports are, the men driving the vehicle were Asian, I won’t rule out the drunk part, but they probably weren’t Scots


  100. Jay Randal says:

    Aneros > there are porn blogs for you to post on guy.


  101. Candrian says:

    White House apparently is doctoring old videos…removed mission accomplished banner on their old videos of bush’s speech on the carrier:


  102. Jake says:

    #98: Got links?


  103. Jake says:

    Uh. Ignore that.


  104. Candrian says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u2ITs4yIAE

    (here’s the link where they removed the mission accomplished banner..didn’t work before)


  105. Krazny says:


    #98: Got links?

    Comment by Jake — June 30, 2007 @ 1:52 pm

    Uh. Ignore that.

    Comment by Jake — June 30, 2007 @ 1:52 pm

    ROFL just use google, I am sure you can find a few =P


  106. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    This bomb tactic may be linked to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, which was an attack Bill Clinton did almost nothing about.

    Comment by Mr. Big

    Except capture the guilty parties, put them on trial, convict them, and put them in prison. Not a damned thing!!!


  107. Jay Randal says:

    Maybe Aneros has this event solved. The crazy Asians were busy putting bananas up their butts > lol. Just needed to tell that joke.


  108. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    eports are, the men driving the vehicle were Asian, I won’t rule out the drunk part, but they probably weren’t Scots

    Comment by Krazny

    Scots??? Was anyone head-butted???


  109. StinkyBritches says:

    Aneros = Jake.

    What a pervert.


  110. Juan C says:

    I woke this morning thinking I would be to sore to walk, but no such thing. Infact, I,m thinking of sneaking home early befor the wife gets home and have another session.
    Comment by Aneros

    Another republican.


  111. barfly says:

    Got links?

    Comment by Jake

    I thought it was Jake …

    Those nurses must be drugging him to shut him up, again…

    Hey, nurses! Double the dosage!


  112. Krazny says:

    Don’t think you can get a gas can to explode by headbutting it.


  113. muckdog says:

    This Al Qaeda attack in Glasgow gives further proof to the world that we must band together to defeat terrorism.

    Now is not the time to retreat as the leading Democrat candidates would tell you.

    This is the time to join together and unite against this terrorist threat that affects all of us.

    We are not at war with the terrorists, they are at war with us. We must fight to protect our right to exist.

    We are with you, people of Glasgow. Thoughts and prayers to those out there who are facing the terrorist menace today.


  114. Tobey Tall says:

    what better way is there for giving Gordon Brown a legitimate reason to continue Tony Blairs Iraq Oil Aid program

    only on two occasions in the past 4 years has Gordon Brown said publicly
    that he agreed with Tony Blair on Invading Iraq

    Now Gordon Brown has the perfect answer within 2 days of Goverment to continue foreign policy without lookingbad for himself

    coincidence or synchronization


  115. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    Don’t think you can get a gas can to explode by headbutting it.

    Comment by Krazny

    Clearly, you don’t know the Scots!


  116. Jay Randal says:

    muckdog > lol are you smoking crack or something else?


  117. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    but instead was done by a sleepy driver who needed to get a motel room.

    Comment by Jay Randal

    But that’s only the “official version”, Jay…


  118. Tobey Tall says:

    muckdog – I am Scottish and live in Scotland

    please take your forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan and stop creating reasons for terrorism

    Thank you so kindly


  119. Bob (not the hacker) says:

    This bomb tactic may be linked to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, which was an attack Bill Clinton did almost nothing about.

    Comment by Mr. Big —
    Is mr big short for mister bigmouth? You’re a braindead idiot. And your parents obviously experimented with inbreeding.


  120. Not Canadian says:

    Maybe they hoped all the HOT AIR from the Neocons would “oxidize” the gas canisters… since they were incapable of erupting WITHOUT ONE!!!

    “The sky is falling! We’re being attacked”

    Does this sound familiar, my ‘chicken-littles’:

    All you have to do is tell them they’re being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
    -Nazi Reich Marshall Hermann Goering at the Nuremburg War Trials

    Tattoo it on your foreheads so it’ll be easier to remember, brainwashed Repukes…


  121. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    Look in the mirror if you want to see the real culprit: conservative cowardice and perfidy.

    Comment by barfly

    Sorry, barfly, but you’re going to have to find simpler words than perfidy if you expect to be understood here. Try something in the one-syllable catagory, or perhaps some grunts and gesticulations…


  122. Jay Randal says:

    Well Republic that crash did result in a highway bridge collapsing, so could be called a successful terror attack, but Bush officials quickly claimed it was just a sleepy truck driver.


  123. BottomBoy says:

    Tattoo it on your foreheads so it’ll be easier to remember, brainwashed Repukes…

    Hmm. Maybe we’re following his suggestions. Ever thought about that?

    God you people are stupid.


  124. Not Canadian says:

    Yes, I advise Repukes to heed the advice of a Nazi War criminal.

    Makes PERFECT sense…


  125. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    but Bush officials quickly claimed it was just a sleepy truck driver.

    Comment by Jay Randal

    They had to look at the possibility, that’s for sure.

    An ex-acquaintance of mine was involved w/ the film “The Wild Wild West”. Bad movie. I had heard my friend was claiming the studio hijacked his idea for that film, and decided he was probably telling the truth because only this guy would be desperate enough to take credit for a flop.


  126. Texas Democrat says:

    muckdog,

    That brought a tear to my eye.


  127. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    “… the advice of a Nazi War criminal…”

    Makes PERFECT sense…

    Comment by Not Canadian

    How did Prescott Bush get into this conversation?


  128. BottomBoy says:

    #121: Ever heard of the “Operation PaperClip”? We brought a lot of important information back from the 3rd Reich. Stuff that allowed us to win the Cold War.

    In fact, if we had done the right thing and joined forces with the remnants of Wehrmacht in 1944-45 after Hitler’s death and driven the Soviets out of Berlin, there would not have been a Cold War to begin with. Imagine that.


  129. Krazny says:

    If we need to band together, why did Bush alienate almost all of our allies, and turn world opinion against the US?


  130. Not Canadian says:

    BB,
    Yes we know of the Bush’s funding of the 3rd Reich through the World Bank, and their profit from said, and their ties/fascination with the Nazi Regime.

    Shrub and his pappy have been using the Nazi ‘playbook’ for decades.

    And thanks for the showing your allegience to the Fuhrer.


  131. Bob (not the hacker) says:

    “This Al Qaeda attack in Glasgow gives further proof to the world that we must band together to defeat terrorism.

    Now is not the time to retreat as the leading Democrat candidates would tell you.

    Muckdog”

    More noecon lies and distortions. the democrats want to focus of actualy fighting the terrorists. We aren’t doing that in Iraq, moron. We’re fighting for oil. If you believe otherwise you are a fool.


  132. The Republic of Stupidity says:

    Now is not the time to retreat as the leading Democrat candidates would tell you.

    Comment by muckdog

    muckdog (appropriate name, by the way…), if you want to be taken seriously, STOP LYING!!!


  133. BottomBoy says:

    As I said, the alliance could have been made only after Hitler’s death. I’ve got no allegiance to the Führer. I’m just thinking realpolitik. Drive out the Soviets and you would have had Free Europe instead of the stand-off that cost us billions of dollars.


  134. Krazny says:

    Not to digress too much from the main topic, but the only way we could have avoided the cold war, would have been to invade the Soviet Union in 1918, shortly after the Bolshevik revolution. Hitler’s invasion of eastern europe, is what opened the door for soviet dominance. Whether we had driven them from Berlin, something that tactically I doubt the allies were capable of is irrelevant.


  135. leftcoast says:

    I believe that we will see a major up-tick in terrorism as we approach the U.S. election cycle. Repbulican voters view their party as the one of security. The form of security under that party is one of war as well as decreasing of liberty within the U.S.
    Terrorism breeds off the vary actions of the current tact of the republican party. They want the U.S. to stay with the war party.
    The constant bellowing that we have not been attacked since 9/11 should make you feel safer? It is not just because of our security forces. It is just the marking of time before the next election.


  136. Not Canadian says:

    …and joined forces with the remnants of Wehrmacht in 1944-45 after Hitler’s death …
    Comment by BottomBoy

    Your compassion for the Jews is visceral.

    It makes my skin crawl.


  137. BottomBoy says:

    #133: I’m sure Wehrmacht would have been more interested in driving out the Soviets with our help than maintaining any camps.


  138. Not Canadian says:

    #134
    And you think anybody with half a brain stem could/would trust them?

    HELL NO.


  139. Krazny says:

    No Bottom boy has a great idea, lets arm the enemy we just defeated.


  140. BottomBoy says:

    #134: Germans were always a logical race. If we helped them rid their country of the Soviet scourge, what makes you think they would have any interest in killing Jews? Besides, Wehrmacht was never into that stuff. It was the nazi high command and SS.


  141. BottomBoy says:

    #136: Well, what the hell do you think happened in the 1950s and 60s?


  142. Badger says:

    Al Qaeda may have imported tactics more familiar in Iraq.

    The insurgents in Iraq do not use propane and gasoline in their car bombs. They use real explosives and artillery shells that the Lethally Incompetent Bush war planners failed to secure during the invasion of Iraq. Our troops drove PAST warehouses full of these munitions in their single-minded quest to find Weapons of Mass Destruction.
    And why didn’t our troops simply blow these munition storage facilities up??? Because they didn’t have the TIME or Resources to search them, and were afraid chemical weapons possibly stored in there would be released.


  143. Tobey Tall says:

    Just on Juan Cole website

    Larry Johnson points out that Friday’s similar incident in London was similarly a SNAFU.

    http://www.juancole.com/

    this should really please some trolls


  144. Tobey Tall says:

    “this is actually brilliant nobody was hurt and now it forces Brown to play his hands as for 4 years he has whitewashed the subject of Iraq or should I say foreign policy”


  145. Toliver says:

    Random thoughts:

    -1/3 of you cats are conspiracy kooks.

    -Two bomb attacks have been going on in more places than Iraq for yeats [Israel for one].

    -Who’s side are some of you on?


  146. dantheman says:

    Not Al Qaeda. Iraqi style insurgency imported and created by America’s War on Terror.


  147. HeckuvahJob Brownie says:

    I think it’s time to invade London.

    That way, we can fight the evildoers there, instead of over here.


  148. Badger says:

    AlQaeda’s number two, Aiman al-Zawahiri Cancelled plans for a poison gas attack in America, because he thought it would not be SPECTACULAR enough. No… these car bombs in England were the work of amateur Al-Qaeda wannabe’s. If Bin Laden attacks us again, god forbid, we won’t have any doubt who did it.


  149. HeckuvahJob Brownie says:

    I think every sedan has gasoline in it.

    Well, maybe not the ones that run on diesel.


  150. Jay Randal says:

    CNN has been showing the burning vehicle at Glasgow, and fire seems to have damaged the building above it somewhat, but the windows are still intact so could not have been any explosive in the car. Might have been filled with jugs of gasoline to make a bigger fire. Appears to be a very poorly planned attack on the airport, so more for show than to kill a bunch of people. Capturing two Asian guys is odd and hard to tie them to Islamic Arabic terrorists.


  151. veritas says:

    Just like the immediate speculation following 911, eh? Is this a last-ditch attempt to exonerate their own criminal, Bush’s poodle? Amazing how they can decide almost immediately who is responsible yet cannot seem to find OBL after 5 years of hunting for him? Hmmm…..doesn’t make a bit of sense, does it?


  152. veritas says:

    As far as this bomb situation, all I can say is: NEXT! The sycophantic media whores love this – monopolizing the air time with repeating this ad nauseum….when no one cares at all. I don’t think the MSM will get it until it’s too late for them….have to say that I wouldn’t notice it one iota if they were all gone because I don’t listen to or watch any of them.


  153. SKdeA says:

    “according to American sources”
    That’s all you have to hear to know it’s bullshit.


  154. PoliticalCritic says:

    A couple of car bombs do not always mean Al Qaeda and Iraq. The mainstream media is ridiculous. People have been making car bombs for decades, long before Al Qaeda existed.


  155. Mr. President ® says:

    “according to American sources”
    That’s all you have to hear to know it’s bullshit.

    Comment by SKdeA — June 30, 2007 @ 7:14 pm


    Typical Lefty UnAmerican Sentiment


  156. sponson says:

    These clowns are worthy of the three stooges. If only the insurgents in Iraq were this incompetent, instead of “the most diabolical enemy I’ve ever seen,” as David Petraeus said just yesterday. A lot less of our boys would die today, and tomorrow.


  157. trippin says:

    No doubt that these attacks are related to Iraq.

    And you aint’ seen nuthin’ yet. Before it’s over George Bush will have even more American blood on his hands than the people he executed in Texas with a chuckle, those that died on 9/11, those that died on the battlefield, and those that die every day in this country because of lack of health care. And the filthy heartless sonofabitch doesn’t care one bit. His two fetal-alcohol-syndrome addled daughters will live in luxurious isolation from real society as planned — and the widening gap between the haves and the have-nots will better assure their sensitivities are never confronted with reality.

    Bush and his neocon cabal is one hundred percent responsible for the worldwide surge in terrorist activity.


  158. Kevin Good says:

    Their ‘intelligence’ is based in the theory of, six degrees of separation.
    Six degrees of separation is the theory that anyone on the planet can be connected to any other person on the planet through a chain of acquaintances that has no more than five intermediaries.


  159. Da Plaaanut has uh feeever says:

    Any connection to Iraq and Al Qaeda is pure speculation.

    They have “concerns,” for f*ck’s sake — no evidence.

    Scare tactics.

    Comment by Zooey — June 30, 2007 @ 11:52 am

    As opposed to, say, the hard evidence offered by Al Gore’s “documentary” on global warming?


  160. JohnnySwank says:

    The biggest news story over the weekend and this site has one mention of it at the bottom. Sad and scary. You people who believe that there is no war on terrorism(Fanatic Islamists) better get your head out of the sand. To say that the attempted bombings were carried out by”the three stooges” is cowardly. You won’t open your eyes and understand that the world we live in is different post 9/11. You are like spoiled children who don’t get what you want. Close your eyes and ears and scream”no,no,no!!” The terrorist still want to kill you and your children. They hate us not because of G.W. Bush. They hate us because of freedom. Just go ask one of them. It’s all about control to them,no freedom of religon,no freedom of speech, and no rights for women. It’s not scare tactics you idiots! Ignore the past and you will be destined to repeat it.



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