NH repeals abortion parental-notice law.
By on Jun 30th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
NH repeals abortion parental-notice law.
Gov. John Lynch (D-NH) “signed legislation Friday that made New Hampshire the first state to repeal a law requiring that a parent be notified before a minor receives an abortion.”
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Where is Falwell when you need him?
June 30th, 2007 at 2:17 pmThere are only a few circumstances, where a minor should not notify her parents. I am sorry but I don’t agree with these rules. I do think, that if it is argued convinceingly, a judge should allow for a minor to get an abortion without parental notification, but to just have a blanket statement that allows it is wrong.
June 30th, 2007 at 2:21 pmThis does seem to be a conumdrum. We want to think that our children can come to us with word of pregnancy. Their fear should not be there, but in some families fear for the teenager is very real. Many will not know about going to a judge, they will be preoccupied with the fear of saying anything to anyone, especially family. Who argues to the judge? A child? An attorney? A government worker? How does the child find an advocate?
June 30th, 2007 at 2:35 pmYEA New Hampshire!
June 30th, 2007 at 2:37 pmIt would be just a ducky, perfect world if all knocked up teens felt they could trust parents with the news that they were preggers. For the majority it would be disastrous AND, if the teen’s condition was a result of date rape or a parental figure’s abuse, think how much more traumatizing it will be to then have to plead before a judge. Judges, as our supreme court has recently shown, are hardly unbiased or concerned with victims (even just of circumstance).
Frankly, parental notification laws make me think of…coathangers for instance. How about putting non-religious, nonjudgmental reproduction education back into the schools so kids, who are going to have sex anyway, will know how to avoid the possible need for an abortion.
It all boils down to trust. Doesn’t it? Love your child as you would want to be loved. No government can give you this.
June 30th, 2007 at 2:38 pmNot only should the child’s parent be notified, but if a underage girl gets pregnant a crime has been committed. This should not be taken lightly.
June 30th, 2007 at 2:45 pm#6 Not all parents will be compassionate and understanding. I know families that would literally kill their children if one of them got pregnant.
The idea here is this: We’d like families to be perfect, but they aren’t. We’d like everyone to practice safe sex(opposed to unsafe sex), but it just isn’t happening.
June 30th, 2007 at 2:50 pm#7. If an underage girl breaks her arm, before any medical work is preformed a parent is notified. So why is this procedure exempt? Also, if the girl has an abortion and the parents are not notified, what is going to prevent her from getting pregnant? And if the girl is raped how is the rapist going to be stopped? Non-notification just lets the girls get away with bad behavior and the government is helping her do it.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:00 pmNon-notification just lets the girls get away with bad behavior and the government is helping her do it.
Comment by Kevin
June 30th, 2007 at 3:03 pmBad behavior??? What made sex bad behavior? Nothing may never prevent her getting pregnant again, but it certainly won’t be you.
Bad behavior??? What made sex bad behavior? Nothing may never prevent her getting pregnant again, but it certainly won’t be you.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 3:03 pm
So your OK with kids having sex? How young? 16, 14, 13. Why not 8? How about parents explaining to kids that action have consequences?
June 30th, 2007 at 3:14 pmIf parents cannot raise their daughters to respect themselves enough to avoid sex as a young woman, or to protect themselves against STDs and unplanned pregnancies, then how can anyone expect them to suddenly be the bastion of responsibly when the daughter they raised becomes pregnant?
Abortions should be available to all women old enough to become pregnant in the first place.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHow about putting non-religious, nonjudgmental reproduction education back into the schools so kids, who are going to have sex anyway, will know how to avoid the possible need for an abortion.
Comment by donna — June 30, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
But then they couldn’t exploit women… And men with small genitals must exploit women to feel better about themselves. Just read any anti-female post by any troll for evidence :D
June 30th, 2007 at 3:18 pmSo your OK with kids having sex? How young? 16, 14, 13. Why not 8? How about parents explaining to kids that action have consequences?
Comment by Kevin — June 30, 2007 @ 3:14 pm
Stop being ridiculous. Humans don’t have sexual urges until they go through puberty in their teens. 8 year olds don’t have sexual urges.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWhere is Falwell when you need him?
Comment by ∞Ω — June 30, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
Taking his under aged girlfriend for an abortion, probably…
Oh, no one NEEDS Falwell.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:23 pmI’m kinda against this law. Allowing doctors to perform medical procedures on minors without their parents consent is wrong. Emergency situations are different (IE must amputate an arm to save their life etc).
June 30th, 2007 at 3:24 pmSo your OK with kids having sex? How young? 16, 14, 13. Why not 8? How about parents explaining to kids that action have consequences?
Comment by Kevin
June 30th, 2007 at 3:25 pmNO, Kevin. You didn’t read my earlier post. It all boils down to trust. Doesn’t it? Love your child as you would want to be loved. No government can give you this.
If parents cannot raise their daughters to respect themselves enough to avoid sex as a young woman, or to protect themselves against STDs and unplanned pregnancies, then how can anyone expect them to suddenly be the bastion of responsibly when the daughter they raised becomes pregnant?
Abortions should be available to all women old enough to become pregnant in the first place.
Comment by unbelievable — June 30, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
Parents do have a hard time raising kids now. Kids are told “You’re going to have sex anyway, so please try and be safe about it. But if not, don’t worry because you can abort the child.”
If you’re child is doing something that can cause them harm a parent should be notified. I not even saying prevented I just saying notified. If the kid thinks they will be in some sort of danger they can be notified by social services and the social worker can determined if the kid is in danger.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:26 pmKevin- Trust is more than just letting things ride. It is making others feel they can trust you. Trust for forgiveness, trust for admonition, and trust that no matter what I will be there for you.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:27 pmIf you same authoritarian rightards would allow proper sex education, neither the law nor the suspension of same would be necessary.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:30 pmIf the kid thinks they will be in some sort of danger they can be notified by social services and the social worker can determined if the kid is in danger.
Comment by Kevin
June 30th, 2007 at 3:30 pmI understand what your saying. I’m just concerned with government. Social workers are overworked. They can’t handle the child abuse cases they have. I’ve sat on two juries where child abuse was a factor. Social Service failed in each case.
kevin, cite one example of that idiocy you just made up about “don’t worry because you can abort the child”. You’re a liar.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:31 pmIf the kid thinks they will be in some sort of danger they can be notified by social services and the social worker can determined if the kid is in danger
—
When the Rethugs fully fund social services so it is a working, compassionate, safe system, then we can talk. In the meantime, forget it.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:33 pmSo your OK with kids having sex? How young? 16, 14, 13. Why not 8? How about parents explaining to kids that action have consequences?
Comment by Kevin
The stupidity.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:33 pmAvoiding sex as a young woman has nothing to do with self-respect. It’s all about male control freaks punishing young women for following nature. Part and parcel of the ignorance and fear-mongering of conservatives.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pmkevin, cite one example of that idiocy you just made up about “don’t worry because you can abort the childâ€. You’re a liar.
Comment by ronjazz
June 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pmronjazz, failed to see that comment by kevin. We cannot go back to the alley!
I’m delighted that the parental notification requirement was repealed.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:35 pmGirls who trust their parents will not need to be forced to notify their parents that they need an abortion. They will go to their parents for help on their own. It is the girls who fear their parents’ reaction who need help. The fact is, if you are old enough to be a mother, you should be old enough to make a decision on your own.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:40 pmWhen a teenager gets pregnant, we say her parents must approve an abortion because the girl is too young to make the decision. Yet if she doesn’t have the abortion, and gives birth less than a year later, all of a sudden she’s now a grown-up responsible for a baby!
It seems to make more sense to let the girl make this one decision, then it does to make a child responsible for another child, no?
June 30th, 2007 at 3:47 pm#27
June 30th, 2007 at 3:50 pmdenise,
That has been my take as a father and I will never ever give government control of my child’s reproductive rights.
It is the girls who fear their parents’ reaction who need help. The fact is, if you are old enough to be a mother, you should be old enough to make a decision on your own.
And they should be old enough to be tossed out of their parents home.
Oh well, at least it was a law and not some judge’s mandate.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:50 pmNew Hampshire will one day be in the burning lake of fire, m12.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:53 pmIt seems to make more sense to let the girl make this one decision, then it does to make a child responsible for another child, no?
Comment by Susan Calvin
June 30th, 2007 at 3:54 pmA child, a girl. If we love our child they will become the girl we wish. If we think of love as other than it really is they will never know love. Let them decide what they wish, but love them always.
but if a underage girl gets pregnant a crime has been committed.
Because underage boys always keep their penis in their pants.
The stupid, it burns.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:56 pmIt seems to make more sense to let the girl make this one decision, then it does to make a child responsible for another child, no?
Who is paying for this decision?
June 30th, 2007 at 3:58 pmAs Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote in the ’70s, state by state legislative decisions is the way the abortion issue should have been decided all along.
June 30th, 2007 at 3:59 pmREALITY CHECK!!!
The problem with parent notification laws becomes abundantly clear when the father of the unborn is also the father of the underaged minor.
Some fathers do rape their daughters, and a pregnancy results.
Parent notification laws have the unintended consequence of forcing gestation upon those young women who are already living in an abusive household.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:05 pmIt seems to me that a lot of commenters are missing the fact that this law doesn’t force a girl to not tell her parents. It only makes it so she isn’t legally required to tell her parents. Let’s assume any reasonable kind fo family and the girl is going to notify her parents anyway. The only time this becomes an issue is if the parents are fairly radically religious and would force the girl to have an unwanted child against her wishes, or if one of the parents was abusive, either sexually or physically (in the latter case the girl might fear for her life if the parents knew she was having sex).
Alternatively we can assume that the girl is simply wildly irresponsible, and so she’s just going to have an abortion without telling her parents because she’s an idiot, even though there would be no truly major negative consequences if she did tell them. In that case one might still argue that, perhaps, the parents should have raised her better.
AS for the “girl not reporting rape” issue, again, it comes down to the fact that a law was abolished that FORCED a girl to do something. There was no law created that forced a girl to do something. In general I believe our government should not try to legislate many one-size-fits-all laws governing how people need to behave. Some yes, but not very many.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:10 pmSo far 26 comments and not one mention of “BOY”. The most unfortunate reality here is that all of this falls upon the life of a girl or young woman. There are no moral judgments being explicitly made here about nasty little boys or dirty old men, or even the many fathers and uncles having sex with barely teenage girls. Some of you need to reread that last sentence to understand that in too many cases it’s not about the “bad” girls at all.
To those who believe in having teens avoid sex, OMG, give it up. 20 years ago, my girl friend and i became oral sex experts in high school. Neither of us wanted to deal with her getting pregnant. But in no way did we avoid sex. But a big shocker for me was in college i had the chance to talk to a number of women who said they kept their virginity through out their high school years. Indeed, they had regular anal sex and remaind pure. I bet their daddy would be so pround! That’s why i say the avoidance route is a dead end. Sorry, but no one is really buying that one. They are just lying about it. But it does make for good bumper stickers.
I’m not a fan of minors having surgery without parental notification, but i can go with it. I’m not a fan of boys being left out of the equation; I’m not a fan of incest; I’m not a fan of rape. I guess it’s not a perfect world. How about some laws for the boys and men? How about a law or two targeting the sperm doner and not just the receiver?
June 30th, 2007 at 4:11 pmHypothetical:
If a 15 year old boy came home one day and said “Yeah they have been giving me Ritalin at school everyday because it helps me concentrate”. “I told them it was OK”
How many of us parents would be upset?
I for one would be through the roof. Children are not capeable of making those kinds of medical decissions. God Forbid it was my daughter. I would make sure it’s the decission she wants and I would research the different ways it can be done, risks associated with them and help her to make those kinds of decissions.
Allowing anyone else to medicate/perform medical treatment on my kids without my knowledge is wrong.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:12 pmWOW!!! Change that (Everyone to ) decisions
June 30th, 2007 at 4:22 pmParents do have a hard time raising kids now. Kids are told “You’re going to have sex anyway, so please try and be safe about it. But if not, don’t worry because you can abort the child.â€
75% of every child’s role model is their parent of the same sex.
You can deny your accountability, and blame everyone else for your shortcomings, like a typical conservative, but if your child gets pregnant, 75% of that is yours.
If you’re child is doing something that can cause them harm a parent should be notified. I not even saying prevented I just saying notified. If the kid thinks they will be in some sort of danger they can be notified by social services and the social worker can determined if the kid is in danger.
Comment by Kevin — June 30, 2007 @ 3:26 pm
Why should a parent be notified?
June 30th, 2007 at 4:25 pmTundra,
That’s pretty silly don’t you think? Are we not talking about an exception to the rule here given the world of circumstances that can cause a girl to get pregnant and the various possible outcomes? Even if you woke every morning and rapped your son in his hind-side, it would not be a fitting analogy or hypothetical because your son will never get pregnant. This is not like receiving Ritalin; this is not like a lot of things.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:27 pmAvoiding sex as a young woman has nothing to do with self-respect.
You omitted my caveat… And yes, it does. If you respect yourself, you won’t be casual about sex, and when you do decide to, you’ll beresponsible about it. That’s what self-respect means.
It’s all about male control freaks punishing young women for following nature. Part and parcel of the ignorance and fear-mongering of conservatives.
Comment by ronjazz — June 30, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
That’s part of it… But it deals with the consequences only and not with what put them in that predicament in the first place. That’s about self-esteem.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:28 pm#36
June 30th, 2007 at 4:29 pmThank you. Well said.
Who is paying for this decision?
Comment by m12 — June 30, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
You’d rather pay to raise the child instead? That’s a LOT more expensive…
June 30th, 2007 at 4:31 pm# 8 And if the girl is raped how is the rapist going to be stopped? Non-notification just lets the girls get away with bad behavior and the government is helping her do it.
Yes, we shouldn’t let girls “get away with [their] bad behavior” of being raped. Because if they were nice girls, they wouldn’t have been raped. It must have happened because of the girl’s “bad behavior.”
If you’re living in a family where your parents will say that the rape was your own fault, you bet your sweet patootie I don’t think you should have to get their permission to have an abortion.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:33 pmYou think “reasonable” minors are going to notify their parents that they are pregnant? Wrong.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:34 pmChildren are not capeable of making those kinds of medical decissions.
Comment by Tundra — June 30, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
They aren’t “children” anymore. Stop being a drama queen.
Nature considers them adults when they can breed.
I don’t know a single kid who would willingly take Ritalin. In fact, a good number of them don’t take it because they hate the side effects. You need a better analogy.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:34 pmComment by Archimedes — June 30, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Ah yes, it is at the discretion of child!!!
Of course, it would only be a problem if she was from a religious family!!!
…
…
Archimedes, you’re a damn fool!!!
(But you’re funny so keep up the nonsense!)
June 30th, 2007 at 4:37 pmLess than 1% of all abortions performed in the United States in 1995 were to females under 15 years old. You guys freaking out about this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/age.asp
June 30th, 2007 at 4:38 pmIf you’re living in a family where your parents will say that the rape was your own fault, you bet your sweet patootie I don’t think you should have to get their permission to have an abortion.
Comment by Mnemosyne — June 30, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Great straw man, doucher. Nice, the way you intentionally conflated the argument! Either that or you have a bad memory and forgot what was said.
Actually, if the young slut’s family was notified then she might receive some the much needed discipline that could prevent her from making the same mistakes.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:43 pmTo every poster here without a child in their teens please remember your teens. To every poster with a teen, go hug them.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:46 pmTo all those who wish to control the lives of others because it is your moral belief to do so; please move the moral governance you desire.
Less than 1% of all abortions performed in the United States in 1995 were to females under 15 years old. You guys freaking out about this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/age.asp
Comment by unbelievable
June 30th, 2007 at 4:48 pmUnbeliveable, I wish more would understand this.
I like this. If I was a pregnant teenage girl, I wouldn’t want to be forced to notify my parents about getting an abortion. Its the teenage girl’s body not her parents.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:52 pmLess than 1% of all abortions performed in the United States in 1995 were to females under 15 years old.
That is a 12 year old study.
You guys freaking out about this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:54 pmYou guys freaking out for this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
Uh, where is the responsibility of the parents of the boys who get these girls pregnant? The girls don’t get pregnant by themselves. This society is so caught up in the reproductiveness of the female it loses sight of the fact that someone isn’t educating the males to control their actions. And, as has been stated, if a girl is too young to have an abortion, she is quite obviously much too young to be raising a child. Usually the father of the child is not held to account, and there lies yet another problem. Accountability in this time seems to have been totally ignored. With the administration we are currently anchored with not having to account for the lies, etc. they have performed, the kids are certainly not seeing much of an example from that department, and if their parents aren’t there for them, what the heck do you expect is going to happen. It’s the reality we live at the present time. Honest and real sex education is a must and that is absent as well.
June 30th, 2007 at 4:57 pmUsing your resources
http://www.abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp
Who is responsible for watching for care afterwards? Do we trust that her other teenage friends are able to spot some of the emotional effects? Do we trust that she can handle the physical and emotional issues on her own? Do we assume the doctor and government will handle it all?
June 30th, 2007 at 4:58 pmDo we trust that she can handle the physical and emotional issues on her own? Do we assume the doctor and government will handle it all?
Comment by Tundra
June 30th, 2007 at 5:06 pmTrust is more than just letting things ride. It is making your child feel they can trust you. Trust is forgiveness, trust can bring admonition, and trust is that no matter what you do I will be there for you.
But Trunda- do not trust in government to bring morals to our homes or protection from our own frailities.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:07 pmLeftCoast,
Thanks for the table of abortion statistics. Let’s see who is leading the natioin in junior high school aged girls, that is girls less than 15 years of age, getting abortions per total number of abortions performed in that state.
1. Mississippi (1.7%)
2. Kansas (1.5%)
3. Arkansas (1.3%)
4. Alabama (1.2%)
5. Georgia (1.2%)
6. Louisiana (1.2%)
7. Kentucky (1.1%)
8. Missouri (1.1%)
9. Tennessee (1.1%)
Wow these are all Bush 2000 and 2004 states, what a coincidence!
June 30th, 2007 at 5:07 pmUnbeliveable, I wish more would understand this.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
Me too… But it’s all the conservatives have – wedge issues that are non-issues.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThat is a 12 year old study.
Last year work for you, since this one isn’t finished yet?
http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/AC0CE129-D3F9-4698-9FD8-132EE3820138/0/abortionsyedec06hotp.pdf
You guys freaking out about this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
You guys freaking out for this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
Comment by Tundra — June 30, 2007 @ 4:54 pm
Only the right is freaking out. The left is celebrating…
June 30th, 2007 at 5:10 pmLet me guess, the trolls are supporting rapist, incestuous fathers who attack their children by demanding that the rapist father have a say in the childs pregnancy.
Talk about sick, rightwing, Falwellian, Bush-bot, Republican Coulteresque trolls.
-GSD
June 30th, 2007 at 5:12 pmComment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
I understand your point. What I am saying though (In that post) is that if parents arent notified. They cannot watch for those symptoms. If she was to afraid to tell them about the abortion, odds are she would be too afraid to tell them about bleeding/extreme pains/feelings of depression etc.
If you are saying she doesn’t need to tell her parents, who is going to be watching out for her after it is complete? Are we prepared to watch on the news (Because we all know it would make CNN). Girl 15 has abortion and then dies 2 weeks later due to complications. Doctors say if it was brought up sooner she had a 99% survival rate. She was to afraid to tell her parents she was in pain because she knew it was related to the abortion.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:12 pm1. Mississippi (1.7%)
2. Kansas (1.5%)
3. Arkansas (1.3%)
4. Alabama (1.2%)
5. Georgia (1.2%)
6. Louisiana (1.2%)
7. Kentucky (1.1%)
8. Missouri (1.1%)
9. Tennessee (1.1%)
Wow these are all Bush 2000 and 2004 states, what a coincidence!
Cue the theme from Deliverence.
-GSD
Comment by ScrewBush — June 30, 2007
June 30th, 2007 at 5:13 pmMe too… But it’s all the conservatives have – wedge issues that are non-issues.
Comment by unbelievable
June 30th, 2007 at 5:13 pmunbelievable- Wedge issues are often ignored because dems, like myself, thought those who voted with wedge on their minds were an insignificant number (because how could there be so many idiots who vote on one issue?)
WE have a responsibility to educate all that we can.
Who is responsible for watching for care afterwards?
In the case of my 16 year old friend who my mother took to have an abortion because her parents would have killed her after they forced her to have it, probably the same person who takes her. Usually another mother who was responsible enough to teach her own kid not to get pregnant, and wouldn’t have killed her if she did (I didn’t, by the way).
Do we trust that her other teenage friends are able to spot some of the emotional effects? Do we trust that she can handle the physical and emotional issues on her own? Do we assume the doctor and government will handle it all?
Comment by Tundra — June 30, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
You greatly underestimate the nurturing community of women who will support her.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:14 pmTundra,
June 30th, 2007 at 5:17 pmI understand. I would want to be aware of my daughter’s health. I would hope that she and her friends trusted me enough to let me know that she suffers. That is the struggle of a father. That is our job from the beginning of time. But it is not the struggle of government.
Let me guess, the trolls are supporting rapist, incestuous fathers who attack their children by demanding that the rapist father have a say in the childs pregnancy.
Comment by GSD — June 30, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
Yep:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT:
“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.”
Judges 5:30 NAB
“They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.”
June 30th, 2007 at 5:17 pmprobably the same person who takes her.
The 16 year old father?
You greatly underestimate the nurturing community of women who will support her.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:18 pmThey don’t have to be informed either.
You greatly underestimate the nurturing community of women who will support her.
Comment by unbelievable father who will support her.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:19 pmWE have a responsibility to educate all that we can.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
Yeah, we made the mistake of thinking people would vote with their brains. They seem to prefer their “hearts”
I agree. We might not convince all of them, but look how much things have changed because of blogs like these with people like us who are willing to spend our free time educating and informing others of the benefit of ALL of society – not just a few rich elite.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:21 pm“I’m kinda against this law. Allowing doctors to perform medical procedures on minors without their parents consent is wrong.”
Well, this is where you and I part company. If the minor had a decent relationship with their parents, they would tell them about the pregnancy. But, many minors have horrendous relationships with their parents and forcing them to notify the parent makes no sense. I had neighbors who locked their pregnant daughter in a room of their house until it was too late for her to have an abortion. Then when she had the baby, they wanted nothing to do with her or their grandchild because they were so embarrassed. The daughter ended up in giving the child up for adoption, leaving home and cut off all ties with her parents.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThe 16 year old father?
Oh yeah, that happens… Again, girls I went to high school with had abortions. They dealt with it, went on to marry later and have families. No one committed suicide, killed her offspring, or became a crack whore.
We women are far stronger than you give us credit for being. Thanks for wanting to play protector, but no thanks.
They don’t have to be informed either.
Comment by Tundra — June 30, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
What?
June 30th, 2007 at 5:24 pm“You think “reasonable†minors are going to notify their parents that they are pregnant? Wrong. Comment by DH in DC ”
My daughter did. She knew that I loved her and respected her. When she told me, we sat down and talked about what was the best thing to do. I encouraged her to have the baby and give it up for adoption. She chose to have an abortion. I gave her love and support and allowed her to make that decision for herself. It was not my decision to make.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:25 pmfather who will support her.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
Yes. No doubt you will. But most women have a hard time talking about their sexuality with their fathers… And, well, let’s face the fact that conservative men don’t think women can take care of anything, and need a man to insert himself to fix everything. He can’t stand the fact that we can handle it.
Because of your attitude, I’d be SHOCKED if you ever had to deal with that problem. Aside from the victims of incest and rape, it’s the girls who don’t get daddy’s love who seek it from another male source…
June 30th, 2007 at 5:27 pmIf memory serves, we had to sign a form giving our daughter’s school in MD prior consent to give her an aspirin should she have a headache. But in NH, kids can get abortions without parental consent or even notification? Headache remedies must be a lot more dangerous than I ever imagined.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pmAgain children aren’t having abortions. Children can’t get pregnant.
Young women who get pregnant and have an abortion are 0.8% of the entire number of females having abortions in the entire United States.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:31 pmKatie–
I’m glad your daughter willingly talked to you. I bet she is in the minority.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:35 pmThey dealt with it, went on to marry later and have families. No one committed suicide, killed her offspring, or became a crack whore.
OK, your stance is that there are no side effects to watch out for. If there are she can handle those as well? If not some woman will find her and help her. Fair enough.
If the minor had a decent relationship with their parents, they would tell them about the pregnancy. Katie
I understand, I didn’t want to tell my parents when I broke the neighbors window playing ball. I love my parents and had a great childhood. I guess some of my fears were unfounded. My sister had a child at 15. My dad’s the one that suggested she get an abortion. Now I am glad she didn’t as I have a great nephew.
Well time to run my daughter to see ratatouille.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:51 pmOK, your stance is that there are no side effects to watch out for.
No.
If there are she can handle those as well? If not some woman will find her and help her. Fair enough.
You’re twisting the meaning of what I said. You’re acting like she has no friends or support system outside of her parents, and I’m telling you that that is naive.
My sister had a child at 15. My dad’s the one that suggested she get an abortion. Now I am glad she didn’t as I have a great nephew.
Comment by Tundra — June 30, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Exceptions don’t define the rule…
June 30th, 2007 at 5:57 pmAgain children aren’t having abortions. Children can’t get pregnant.
Comment by unbelievable — June 30, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
You make me thankful almost every day that you don’t teach in my school system. How did you come up with this little gem? Are nine year old girls not children in your view? Nine year olds can get pregnant. Parents should be notified about abortions unless there is a compelling reason, in which case a judge should make the determination.
June 30th, 2007 at 5:57 pmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2817051.stm
You make me thankful almost every day that you don’t teach in my school system.
Yes, because you want your kids to be as ignorant as you, and all of my students leave my classes having learned something useful in life…
How did you come up with this little gem?
Reality. I know, I know, you are afraid if it so you avoid it at all costs… But most of us prefer it.
Are nine year old girls not children in your view? Nine year olds can get pregnant.
Very, very, very few – and only because of all the hormones you’re feeding them with the cheap beef and chicken you buy.
Parents should be notified about abortions unless there is a compelling reason, in which case a judge should make the determination.
Give a valid reason. None of you has so far. Give a reason that has NOTHING to do with your need to control other people, especially women.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2817051.stm
Comment by upright left — June 30, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
Again, the exceptions don’t define the rules…
Most 9 year olds cannot get pregnant. And if they can, it’s not because they are dating… It’s likely incest.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:02 pm“A child, a girl. If we love our child they will become the girl we wish. If we think of love as other than it really is they will never know love. Let them decide what they wish, but love them always.”
Narcissistic fantasy, as is much of the commentary here. A lot of you need experience in the real world.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:08 pm#71 father who will support her.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
Yes. No doubt you will. But most women have a hard time talking about their sexuality with their fathers… And, well, let’s face the fact that conservative men don’t think women can take care of anything, and need a man to insert himself to fix everything. He can’t stand the fact that we can handle it.
Because of your attitude, I’d be SHOCKED if you ever had to deal with that problem. Aside from the victims of incest and rape, it’s the girls who don’t get daddy’s love who seek it from another male source…
Comment by unbelievable
I seem to have given the wrong impression of my views.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:10 pmI will not give my daughter up to the whims of my government. She and I will work together. That is what love is about.
The states with the highest abortion rates are (not coincidentally) that states with the most abortion restrictions. I don’t think parental notification laws are unreasonable per se, but I do not support the girls having to go to a judge for a judicial bypass. A social or health care worker would be preferable rather than having a child stand up in a court of law and tell why she doesn’t want to inform her parents. Ultimately, these laws are not passed with the intent of protecting parent’s rights or helping the girls, they are passed by Republicans as political wedge issues to fire up their radical base and convince moderates that the Democrats are anti – family and support a culture of moral permissiveness.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:10 pmunbelievable-
June 30th, 2007 at 6:12 pmI have not delusions about what she can and feels she can’t talk about. The juncture here is trust. Either we build it or we don’t.
It seems to me that the real “conservative” response to parental notification laws would be heavily opposed to the government trying to make moral, ethical, legal, medical and personal parenting decisions for people. They tried that in Afghanistan, it’s called the “Taliban”.
If the government can’t be trusted with your tax money, why trust them with nannying your children?
Maybe you should just pay more attention to them and act like a reasonable parent instead of hoping the state of New Hampshire does it for you.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pmA social or health care worker would be preferable rather than having a child stand up in a court of law and tell why she doesn’t want to inform her parents. -Jim
June 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pmYou would trust an overworked, underpaid social worker to speak for your daughter?
“…of my students leave my classes having learned something useful in life…”
Things like, morals don’t matter. If it feels good, do it; you aren’t responsible for the consequences anyway. ;)
——
Are nine year old girls not children in your view? Nine year olds can get pregnant.
“Very, very, very few – and only because of all the hormones you’re feeding them with the cheap beef and chicken you buy.”
So you think menstruation turns a girl into woman overnight? Poof! The little girl is grown! You really are unbelievable. ;)
——
Again, the exceptions don’t define the rules…
Most 9 year olds cannot get pregnant. And if they can, it’s not because they are dating… It’s likely incest.
Comment by unbelievable — June 30, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
Exceptions don’t define the rules, but they do prove that you are wrong. Children can and do become pregnant. Just because there aren’t many doesn’t mean they aren’t important. You really are rather heartless aren’t ya? ;)
June 30th, 2007 at 6:17 pmA lot of you need experience in the real world.
Comment by sj — June 30, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
Spoken as if you believe yourselve to be “experienced”. Wanna include your “experience” curriculum vitae or should you be written off as pompous and self absorbed?
June 30th, 2007 at 6:20 pmIt seems to me that the real “conservative†response to parental notification laws would be heavily opposed to the government trying to make moral, ethical, legal, medical and personal parenting decisions for people.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:21 pmChris, Exactly. There has been a reverse of philosophy among the two major parties. It seems conservatives wish more constrictions on our society. Conservative once meant promotion of less government. You wouldn’t know it now.
You’d rather pay to raise the child instead? That’s a LOT more expensive…
The parents might. They’re the ones paying taxes, and paying for the minor’s upkeep, I should add.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:21 pmLess than 1% of all abortions performed in the United States in 1995 were to females under 15 years old. You guys freaking out about this are freaking out about a very RARE minority.
Less than 1% of all abortions were affected by the PBA ban. You guys freaked out about that.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:22 pmIf kids are old enough to get abortions on their own, surely they are old enough to buy cigarettes.
Might as well use this argument to boost my tobacco stocks.
June 30th, 2007 at 6:27 pmLess than 1% of all abortions were affected by the PBA ban. You guys freaked out about that.
Comment by m12 — June 30, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
Apples to lychees. PBA is a medical procedure utilized in highly specialized circumstances after consultation between the woman and her medical provider
June 30th, 2007 at 6:31 pmIf kids are old enough to get abortions on their own, surely they are old enough to buy cigarettes.
Might as well use this argument to boost my tobacco stocks.
Comment by m12
June 30th, 2007 at 6:35 pmPoor strawman argument.
I’ve read some posts here that are worrisome. There’s no issue here. If a teenager gets pregnant and doesn’t want to have the child, she shouldn’t need the approval of her parents, nor should she have to risk their disapproval. It’s her body.
June 30th, 2007 at 7:02 pm“I’m kinda against this law. Allowing doctors to perform medical procedures on minors without their parents consent is wrong.â€
If the minor doesn’t get an abortion, and doesn’t notify her parents, she will be undergoing a medical procedure in 9 months with or without their consent. It’s called childbirth. You’re saying that a minor should need a parent’s permission to terminate a pregnancy she is probably in no shape — either physically or financially — to sustain, when she doesn’t need her parents’ permission to actually, you know, have a baby? That’s just nuts.
As to those of you talking about pregnant 9-year-olds, surely such cases are vanishingly rare, but in the unlikely event that any 9-year-old gets pregnant, REGARDLESS of the circumstances, that pregnancy should be terminated immediately and with no questions asked. Anyone who can actually contemplate the prospect of forcing a 9-year-old to give birth (because that is what you’re talking about, when you talk about her needing “permission” to end the pregnancy) is a monster. Period.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:40 pm“I’m glad your daughter willingly talked to you. I bet she is in the minority.”
I think you are right. From what she told me, most of her friends had terrible relationships with their parents. They had parents who did not trust their kids and ruled with a heavy hand. It wasn’t that the kids did anything to create the distrust, they were just “good christian families” that felt that their children were their possessions and that until the child left their home, they had total control over what their child could or could not do. Not surprising, these kids did a lot of things their parents didn’t know about and they were often not good things. They were rebelling against their parent’s lack of trust in them.
I raised my daughter with a strong sense of right and wrong and I always let her know that she could talk to me about anything. I also set a good example for her. If I lost it and treated her unfairly, I apologized to her and asked her forgiveness. If she did something wrong, she felt free to fess up because she knew that I would not condemn her. Today she is a very well adjusted and happy adult. She is married and she just recently passed the California bar. She is going into environmental law. She is also going to start a family soon. None of that would have been possible if I had forced her to have the baby and raise it. And if I had forced her to have the baby and give it up for adoption, I suspect it would have caused a lot of emotional trauma.
The prior poster has it right. It is her body and she has the right to do with it what she wants. The Republics supposedly want the government out of our lives (usually when it comes to financial things like taxes), unless it is something that they determine is morally wrong (like abortions and homosexuality). Then it is fine for the government to intrude on our lives. It’s too bad you Republics don’t see what hypocrites you are.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:44 pmWarning to my leftist elitist friends – this is a bit off-topic.
I’m all for contrarianism and practice it much myself, but I don’t see a defensible position for mandating that children have unwanted children of their own and you can be certain that forced parental consent would and does result in just that in many cases.
So, once and for all, to Jake and m12 and the like, please do the rest of the courtesy of identifying the core tenet of the Bush/neocon agenda that you are just oh so smitten with:
1) Everyone should have the right to death except the terminally ill and unwanted embryos.
2) I trust corporations completely with my health, safety and economic security.
3) I hate government regulation, except when it agrees with my church’s corrupted interpretation of the Bible.
4) Guns are neat.
5) Excessive energy consumption is my right.
6) I hate the thought of educated children.
7) Progress frightens me; this country was a much better place 50 years ago.
8) Science is evil.
9) I don’t like brown people and would prefer to bomb them.
10) Elephants poop bigger than donkeys.
Just curious as to the appeal. Thanks for your time.
RG
June 30th, 2007 at 8:48 pmIf the minor doesn’t get an abortion, and doesn’t notify her parents, she will be undergoing a medical procedure in 9 months with or without their consent. It’s called childbirth.
That’s odd. Childbirth existed long before medical care!
June 30th, 2007 at 8:50 pm#96
1. No
June 30th, 2007 at 8:52 pm2. Yes. Moreso than I trust liberals with my tax dollars.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. No
7. Our federal government was better 50 years ago.
8. No
9. Yes. I prefer to do something about the Islamic fundamentalists who invaded our nation.
10. Don’t know.
Don’t try to argue with dirty libertarians who think it’s ok for a 50 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old boy who thinks he knows what he is doing…
Because that’s what they want. If a kid can have urges at 8, then it’s ducky fine with them….freedom you know?
Bah….the Democrats are ruining NH and will be voted out in ‘08.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:54 pmThey have the lowest rating ever of any legislative body.
Lynch is a creep.
There’s no issue here. If a teenager gets pregnant and doesn’t want to have the child, she shouldn’t need the approval of her parents, nor should she have to risk their disapproval. It’s her body.
And its their money paying for the abortion. Its their house the daugter is living in.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:55 pm“And its their money paying for the abortion. Its their house the daugter is living in.
Comment by m12″
Gawd, you are stupid. You think that a minor is going to not tell her parents that she is getting an abortion and then hit her parents up to get the money to pay for the abortion. And so what if it is their house. I would bet that you are one of those good Christian families that think that you own your children until they leave your house. I feel sorry for your children.
June 30th, 2007 at 8:59 pm#98.
Thanks for completing my survey. The responses are telling.
BTW, this administration has done nothing to control spending.
June 30th, 2007 at 9:01 pmM12
June 30th, 2007 at 9:26 pm7th grader pregnant in NH this year past. Dad’s dad. No shit. School I work in. What would you have her do? Go ask dad? Say I made it up. Wish I had. You need to think. The largest state legislature came to a decision. I don’t think they didn’t think long and hard about it. Have you?
#96
1. No
June 30th, 2007 at 9:28 pm2. No
3. No
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. No
7. Whose definition of “progress” yours or mine?
8. No
9. If they are MuslimShiteaters ™ then yes.
10. I don’t care.
Again with the “MuslimShiter” crap. What is this and why should anyone take such nonsense even a little bit seriously. It’s absurd and nasty in the same way that MAF54 is.
June 30th, 2007 at 9:32 pmAnd thank you, #104. Recall that the MuslimShiteaters â„¢ (I’m guessing terrorists) you eloquently reference were mostly Saudis, brothers by oil to Bush and his devotees who hold wasting fuel so near and dear to our national welfare.
June 30th, 2007 at 9:36 pmComment by Retrogrouch — June 30, 2007 @ 9:36 pm
No prob, Retro-bob.
Yes, your guess is correct.
June 30th, 2007 at 9:39 pmSo your OK with kids having sex? How young? 16, 14, 13. Why not 8? How about parents explaining to kids that action have consequences?
Comment by Kevin
Are you talking about your personal fantasies here, Kev?
June 30th, 2007 at 9:47 pmI feel sorry for your children.
Comment by Katie
Inflatable women can’t get ptreggers, Katie. Nor can sheep (by humans, that is…).
June 30th, 2007 at 9:50 pmGawd, you are stupid. You think that a minor is going to not tell her parents that she is getting an abortion and then hit her parents up to get the money to pay for the abortion. And so what if it is their house. I would bet that you are one of those good Christian families that think that you own your children until they leave your house. I feel sorry for your children.
You think that a 14 year old is paying for an abortion with her paper route money? Nope, she is siphoning off the parents and other taxpayers!
June 30th, 2007 at 9:58 pmOr, m12, some male guilty of statutory rape is paying to dispose evidence of his crime.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:01 pmCan’t we just work together to reduce the total number of abortions instead of passing/repealing ridiculous laws?
June 30th, 2007 at 10:04 pmThat depends, PoliticalCritic — if we kill every newborn African-American at birth, that would “reduce the total number of abortions” someday as well –is that O.K. to do?
June 30th, 2007 at 10:07 pmWhat the fukc kind of argument is this?
June 30th, 2007 at 10:15 pmWelcome, Jake!
You haven’t taken my survey (#96)! As the author of some poorly conceived potshots directed at me, please indulge.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:23 pmTrolls live a fantasy world.
Excellent comments all — except Kevin and m12, of course.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:23 pmWhat the fukc kind of argument is this?
Comment by Mr. President ®
It’s called REALITY. Try it sometime.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:26 pmOr, m12, some male guilty of statutory rape is paying to dispose evidence of his crime.
Comment by Jake
Pay no mind to the unfortunate female child being required to give birth.
An investigation into statutary rape — or RAPE — can happen even if the young girl gets an abortion.
Maybe you can tell everyone one of your famous rape jokes while you’re here.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:29 pmI’m intrigued by the comparison to other medical procedures.
Given that–as a medical process–pregnancy and childbirth is significantly riskier than abortion, maybe parental consent should be required for a minor not to have an abortion.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:30 pmThis is a tough one.
I’m as liberal as they come, but I also have a teenage daughter. I think that *my* daughter is responsible enough to handle something like this on her own, but when I think about some of her friends I feel like it’s not really the best thing. Hmmm – not such an easy thing to think through.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:31 pmApples to lychees. PBA is a medical procedure utilized in highly specialized circumstances after consultation between the woman and her medical provider
Comment by dbadass — June 30, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
Except that it says in the opinion that PBA is still available if it is NECESSARY. All the doctor has to do is kill the baby by injection first. Then they are free to do whatever they like to the dead baby. The opinion just prohibits partial birth of a live baby.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:32 pm121:
June 30th, 2007 at 10:45 pmReasonable enough. My point was that comparing repel of parental notification in NH and PBA (#89)based solely on the the fact that they both represent a tiny fraction of the LEGAL abortions in the country is not a comparision based on similar variables
My point was that comparing repel of parental notification in NH and PBA (#89)based solely on the the fact that they both represent a tiny fraction of the LEGAL abortions in the country is not a comparision based on similar variables
Comment by dbadass — June 30, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
I can see how you would feel that way. People who think that abortion should be avoided if at all possible and who want to know before a medical procedure is performed on their child would necessarily disagree.
June 30th, 2007 at 10:56 pmFor the record, since Planned Parenthood is a willing accomplice to all these crimes of statutory rape, there’s no such investigation when these young girls get abortions. I think rapes should be punished by the death penalty. If anyone NOT on the Ignore List thinks I’m joking about REAL rape, please let me know.
June 30th, 2007 at 11:01 pmIt’s called REALITY. Try it sometime.
Comment by Zooey — June 30, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
Incest should be reported to the authorities ALWAYS!
This law ENABLES incest.
REALITY is a bitch, ain’t it?
June 30th, 2007 at 11:04 pmI can see how you would feel that way. People who think that abortion should be avoided if at all possible and who want to know before a medical procedure is performed on their child would necessarily disagree.
Comment by upright left — June 30, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
Seems the suggestion is that I am neither. Have I misread you? If not you are incorrect twice over. I have young daughters my friend but have also seen the situation mention in #103 and worse. Not frequently thankfully but enough to see the need for nuance
June 30th, 2007 at 11:08 pmJe support les troops:
Sounds like this law was not need for your teenager daughter — we ARE talking about protect vulnerable girls, who are taken advantage of males and now their parents will never know — there’s always a judicial procedure with parental notification laws where the girl can go to a judge in case her FATHER is the one taking advantage of her.
June 30th, 2007 at 11:08 pmIf an underage girl breaks her arm, before any medical work is preformed a parent is notified. So why is this procedure exempt?
Because, Kevin, if an underage girl breaks her arm, her parents are not likely to beat her or kill her or throw her out of the house.
That’s why.
Understand now?
June 30th, 2007 at 11:14 pmAnd because if an underage girl breaks her arm, her choices aren’t between getting a surgical procedure now or undergoing a far more dangerous one (childbirth) in 9 months’ time. Parental consent for the abortion has become a kind of weird surrogate for parental regulation of their kids’ sex lives. BY THE TIME THE GIRL IS PREGNANT, that ship has sailed — it’s too late to make the girl prize her virginity, or talk to you before having sex, or to improve communication between the parents and their children generally. The choices are two: have an abortion or have a baby. I find it totally ludicrous that a teenager would need a parent’s consent to have an abortion but not to have a baby. If anything, it should be the other way around.
Finally, it is not the state’s job to step in and make parents and children talk to each other. Sorry parents, you’ll have to handle that one on your own. Just try to be the kind of parent a girl would be happy to call on when making decisions about family planning and safe sex. That’s your best bet — really.
June 30th, 2007 at 11:23 pmFinally, it is not the state’s job to step in and make parents and children talk to each other. Sorry parents, you’ll have to handle that one on your own. Just try to be the kind of parent a girl would be happy to call on when making decisions about family planning and safe sex. That’s your best bet — really.
Comment by Raya — June 30, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
Damn I hope I am/will be. Thanks for the gentle reminder. At least my fishing license comes with the terms of use. You seem very wise. I think your words add much to the discussion
June 30th, 2007 at 11:36 pmBecause, Kevin, if an underage girl breaks her arm, her parents are not likely to beat her or kill her or throw her out of the house.
You think a mature young woman is somehow entitled to live in her parents house?
June 30th, 2007 at 11:52 pmFinally, it is not the state’s job to step in and make parents and children talk to each other.
And it isn’t their job to finance the abortion either. Thank you President Bush for the gag rule!
June 30th, 2007 at 11:52 pmThis is a step in the right direction.
June 30th, 2007 at 11:59 pmIf the parent(s) are likely to beat her or kill her or throw her out of the house, she can go to a judge for the abortion.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:03 amM12:
You seem to have very strong opinions. However they seem a bit scattered for me. In the interest of clarity can you help me out
1) You support PBA ban
2) You support parental notification
3) You see no situation whereby 1 and/or 2 might be an unpleasant but real issue reguiring shades of grey
4) Kids should smoke
5) Mature woman should move out of parents home (does this include grandmama?
6) the state is better off saving little moneys up front and spend much more later on consequences.
7) Money is your motivator
This is sortof what I got so far but like I said it has been a bit hard to for me to try to pull your ideas into a single unifying theorem.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:11 amIf the parent(s) are likely to beat her or kill her or throw her out of the house, she can go to a judge for the abortion.
Comment by Jake — July 1, 2007 @ 12:03 am
Those damn activist judges are doing abortions now? How should, will she know or be able to access this info or option. Do you understand the weird circumstances which yield these rare and unpleasant situations. Obviously the largest state legislature in the country does.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:17 amIncest should be reported to the authorities ALWAYS!
This law ENABLES incest.
REALITY is a bitch, ain’t it?
Comment by Mr. President ®
Bullshit.
Abortion and the reporting of incest are not mutually exclusive.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:27 amAbortion and the reporting of incest are not mutually exclusive.
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 12:27 am
No one said they were. But because of the repeal of this law a victim of incest is enabled to have an abortion without going to the authorities. Which, in turn, will perpetuate the incest.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:38 amDoes it really matter that the smallest State has the largest State legislature?
July 1st, 2007 at 12:55 amNo one said they were. But because of the repeal of this law a victim of incest is enabled to have an abortion without going to the authorities. Which, in turn, will perpetuate the incest.
Comment by Mr. President ®
So the incest victim should be forced to carry the “evidence?” Is that what you’re saying?
If a girl has enough nerve to get out of that situation and get herself an abortion, I’d trust her to report the old man.
Ever heard of that? Trusting women?
July 1st, 2007 at 12:55 amDoes it really matter that the smallest State has the largest State legislature?
Comment by Jake — July 1, 2007 @ 12:55 am
Two simple words: Representative Democracy
July 1st, 2007 at 12:56 amI would rather trust the judge / legal system who has to O.K. the abortion to take care of the incest situation. What is the precentage of “incest” victims anyways? For this rare exception, you are letting all the non-family males taking advantage of teen girls get away with statutory rape.
July 1st, 2007 at 12:58 amI understand the concept of “democracy” — I just fail to see what New Hampshire having the largest number (overcompensating for something?) is relevant to this subject.
July 1st, 2007 at 1:03 amI would rather trust the judge / legal system who has to O.K. the abortion to take care of the incest situation. What is the precentage of “incest†victims anyways? For this rare exception, you are letting all the non-family males taking advantage of teen girls get away with statutory rape.
Comment by Jake
Again — BULLSHIT.
You never ignore anyone, Jake. You just can’t help yourself. Pathetic.
July 1st, 2007 at 1:12 am143
July 1st, 2007 at 1:13 amOnly that the decision reached was the outcome of many minds close to their constituents. If you believe in the system, NH is supposed to best model of it. No doubt I will see my state rep at the post office Monday. Will you? On the primary front however, I would agree a nickel and dime state which unlike its projected image is really just home to a bunch of wasps who fled points south is indeed ridiculous. Oh and don’t even get me started on William Loeb and the stupid pledge. All way dead old school fantasies. Beautiful country and a nice palce to raise kids. We’re dying for a little ethnic diversity but it is coming. Most of us are hoping those free stater wacks will go away although they are irelevant for the most part. Live free or die!
O.K., dbadass.
July 1st, 2007 at 1:41 amSo the incest victim should be forced to carry the “evidence?†Is that what you’re saying?
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 12:55 am
No actually, I didn’t say that at all. For some reason you are using the old straw man on me, and I am just looking out for victims of incest.
July 1st, 2007 at 2:07 amNo actually, I didn’t say that at all. For some reason you are using the old straw man on me, and I am just looking out for victims of incest.
Comment by Mr. President ®
Should minor victims of incest be allowed to abort any pregnancy resulting from said incest, if they so desire, without the permission of a parent?
July 1st, 2007 at 2:25 amShould minor victims of incest be allowed to abort any pregnancy resulting from said incest, if they so desire, without the permission of a parent?
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 2:25 am
Yes. But that would also require a report of said incest to authorities, so that future abuse would not occur.
July 1st, 2007 at 2:27 amYes. But that would also require a report of said incest to authorities, so that future abuse would not occur.
Comment by Mr. President ®
Duh. What have I been saying all this time?
Exhibit A:
July 1st, 2007 at 2:48 amAbortion and the reporting of incest are not mutually exclusive.
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 12:27 am
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 2:48 am
The way this law is however, the minor is not required to report a rape/incest and the abuse can last indefinitely.
If a 12 y/o girl is pregnant she should be allowed an abortion, but someone should be notified, be it the childs parents, or in the case of incest the police.
July 1st, 2007 at 2:53 amThe way this law is however, the minor is not required to report a rape/incest and the abuse can last indefinitely.
If a 12 y/o girl is pregnant she should be allowed an abortion, but someone should be notified, be it the childs parents, or in the case of incest the police.
Comment by Mr. President ®
In a perfect world, yes. This isn’t a perfect world, and sometimes it’s just not going to happen. The child still needs her abortion.
July 1st, 2007 at 3:01 amI have not delusions about what she can and feels she can’t talk about. The juncture here is trust. Either we build it or we don’t.
Comment by leftcoast — June 30, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
I paid you a compliment…
July 1st, 2007 at 9:02 amThings like, morals don’t matter. If it feels good, do it; you aren’t responsible for the consequences anyway. ;)
First of all, you’re not in my classes, now are you?
Secondly, I never fail to be amazed how wrong you are about so many things – especially what liberals stand for… I actually teach my students responsiblity for themselves. The Administration wants me to hold their hands and punish them like babies instaed – which is why the graduation rate in this country is so dismal when compared to other Industrialized Nations.
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So you think menstruation turns a girl into woman overnight? Poof! The little girl is grown! You really are unbelievable. ;)
Nature does. Again, very, very, very, very few 9 year olds menstruate.
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Exceptions don’t define the rules, but they do prove that you are wrong.
Nope. The facts are on our side. Only 0.8% of abortions each year are performed on girls under 15.
Children can and do become pregnant. Just because there aren’t many doesn’t mean they aren’t important.
You’re the only one implying that. And the only one not willing to prove for the baby you want to force them to have.
You really are rather heartless aren’t ya? ;)
Comment by upright left — June 30, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
That would be you, the one who wants to force a 15 year old to have a baby. You know Hitler’s mother as forced to have him.
My mother worked with handicapped children when I was in school. The majority of her students were kids who were born normal to parents who didn’t want them, and then because they were resented, were beaten or tortured to a point of mental and/or physical retardation. That’s the reality. Something you choose to reject and replace with your own fantasyland.
How many babies have you adopted?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:11 amThe parents might. They’re the ones paying taxes, and paying for the minor’s upkeep, I should add.
Comment by m12 — June 30, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
You are not only naive, but you are clearly delusional.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:12 amIt wasn’t that the kids did anything to create the distrust, they were just “good christian families†that felt that their children were their possessions and that until the child left their home, they had total control over what their child could or could not do.
Comment by Katie — June 30, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
Notice how none of the cons could give a reason for why parents should be notified?
It is all about control. Pathetic.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:18 am#7. If the girl has an abortion and the parents are not notified, what is going to prevent her from getting pregnant? And if the girl is raped how is the rapist going to be stopped? Non-notification just lets the girls get away with bad behavior and the government is helping her do it.
Comment by Kevin — June 30, 2007 @ 3:00 pm
Kevin, all your comments are stupid.
What is preventing her from getting pregnant? She’s already pregnant. And since it’s her body and her conception she has a right to do with her body as she pleases. No one has the right to force a female to undergo 9 months of gestation and birth just because she’s not 18. What’s to prevent her from repeating the pregnancy? Parenting.
It’s also interesting that you say the girl is raped, then say what will prevent her from getting away with “bad behavior.” Rape is bad behavior? It was her fault she was raped?
These conservatives always show their colors. As per usual, it has nothing to do with the health and welfare of women, young women or babies. It has EVERYTHING to do with their dislike, distrust, bias, fear or jealousy of someone else’s behavior, which they deem to be unchristian-like or doing something they themselves can’t do.
July 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pmAnyway, CONGRATS to New Hampshire, who is getting rid of this unworkable law. It’s a step in the right direction.
We need more education in this area though, and positive exposure.
July 1st, 2007 at 1:27 pm“Spoken as if you believe yourselve to be “experiencedâ€. Wanna include your “experience†curriculum vitae or should you be written off as pompous and self absorbed?”
A daughter and grandchild, plus fifty years of keeping my eyes and ears open, dumbass.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:02 pmRight now I fall into the “parental consent is a good thing” camp. A well written consent law could take the cases of rape or incest into consideration but in all other circumstances the parents have a right to play a major role in the decision of whether or not their child terminates the pregnancy.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:24 pmA daughter and grandchild, plus fifty years of keeping my eyes and ears open, dumbass.
Comment by sj
Not all parents are as diligent or caring as you, and some are downright predatory.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:13 pmComment by unbelievable — July 1, 2007 @ 9:11 am
I’m rarely surprised anymore by things said by radical lefties, but you’ve managed to do it. That even you would suggest that a nine year old is no longer a child simply to support your single minded pursuit of abortion without limits is abhorrent. I hope that you’ve realized how repulsive your statement was and that’s why you went off on a tangent.
I never gave my view of abortion. You assumed you knew and, as usual, you were wrong.
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Notice how none of the cons could give a reason for why parents should be notified?
It is all about control. Pathetic.
Comment by unbelievable — July 1, 2007 @ 9:18 am
You can’t think of any reason why a parent would want to know that their child was having a potentially dangerous medical procedure done? Responsible parents want to know if their children are getting their ears pierced. Abortion is at least as important as that, wouldn’t ya say? Is there anything else you think it’s ok to do to a child without the parent’s consent besides trying to turn them against the beliefs of their parents? Why don’t run that little gem about adult nine year olds by the parents and administrators at your next PTA meeting? ;)
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:13 amThose of you twisting your pearls over whether it would be best if some responsible adult were involved in the minor’s decison, one is. A doctor. Licensed by the state and responsible for his or her advice. Those under 50 have forgotten that one of the main reasons that abortion was legalized is all the girls and women being mamied and dying from illegal abortions. Girls who don’t want to tell their parents will either get an illegal abortion or jump on a bus/get a ride from 16 year old friend to go to a state where a legal abortion can be obtained. Those who think that under aged girls will stop getting aboritons due to notification laws, etc. are mistaken, and all the problems with minors getting abortions are of course magnified when the procedure is not legally performed.
July 2nd, 2007 at 11:53 amSpoken as if you believe yourselve to be “experiencedâ€. Wanna include your “experience†curriculum vitae or should you be written off as pompous and self absorbed?â€
A daughter and grandchild, plus fifty years of keeping my eyes and ears open, dumbass.
Comment by sj — July 1, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
Think your the only one with this background? I’ll go with the pompous hypothesis.
July 2nd, 2007 at 5:48 pmDoes the person being aborted have anything to say about it?
July 25th, 2007 at 2:28 pm