Moore’s ‘SiCKO’ passes fact-check test.
By on Jul 1st, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Moore’s ‘SiCKO’ passes fact-check test.
CNN investigated the health care statistics Michael Moore cites in his new movie and finds them to be “mostly right.” “As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.” Click here to find a showing near you.
UPDATE: In an email to supporters, Michael Moore writes, “The studio tells me that we are on track to have the second largest opening weekend for a documentary in the history of the movies! (’Fahrenheit 9/11′ was first.) Many theaters have been selling out. The Bush administration’s investigation of this movie is certainly not keeping people away.”
Anyone with a pulse who has had to deal with the health care industry in the country KNOWS first-hand that Moore's facts are right on the money! Once again - Bingo!! - for Michael Moore.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:29 pmWhen Michael Moore gets finished with the problems in this country, the people will be screaming for "CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM"!! Unfortunately, the country will be totally fascist and too late....
July 1st, 2007 at 5:30 pmMichael Moore and Live Earth combined are taking this GOP down the toilet - where they belong - totally flushable!
July 1st, 2007 at 5:30 pm“As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.â€
"errors of omission"???
This translates to "you didn't tell our lies!!!! You left out our complete bullshit story we use to ph*ck everybody over."
And we are all ph*cked at least twice every pay check!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 5:34 pmi heard mm in an interview state that the nurses union was really behind this movie, that they told him it was actually a "G-rated"
version of what they know about things...
doesn't surprise me...
July 1st, 2007 at 5:36 pmWhen will there be wider distribution? I understand that there were only 40 openings this weekend. But I did get to see the movie. My advice to everyone is ; get a great education on the healthcare facts on the ground documented in this movie. There are too many villains in this saga to list. Moore isn't one of them.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:41 pmLook back at Fahrenheit 9/11 and see how much of what he said was true or came true! They tried to discredit him on that too.
Guess the BushCos and their @ss-sucking trolls can't stand the truth!
July 1st, 2007 at 5:42 pmSiCKO will give our national healthcare plan a clean bill of health! three cheers for Micheal Moore!
July 1st, 2007 at 5:43 pmComment by katy — July 1, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Was one of the unions 1199 in NY???
My SO was an RN in 1199...
July 1st, 2007 at 5:43 pmI'd go see it -- if it was playing anywhere within 100 miles. Hopefully it will be released wider soon.
I imagine I will leave this film feeling much the way I did after seeing F9/11, but I feel it's important to see it.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:44 pmhow hysterically funny that cnn devotes its resources in an effort to debunk michael moore and fails.
the wdc media mavens cannot stand that moore packs more reliable information into his 1-1/2 hour documentaries than they have provided in their decades-long careers.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:45 pmI have seen all of his films, and I saw this one when it opened two days ago.
It is an amazing film.
These stories he allows to unfold for themselves. No fan fair, no music. Just the people and their stories.
I hope that everyone gets a chance to see it. it goes much further than just health care. It asks what kind of country do we want to live in.
It is important.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:48 pmdixie - not sure about specifics...
i just paraphrased what moore said... pretty much verbatim...
nurses are earth's angels...
July 1st, 2007 at 5:51 pmMoore asks a man in England, what was it that switched their system to a universal health care program from what they had before.
Without missing a beat, he smiled and said "democracy".
July 1st, 2007 at 5:52 pmWithout missing a beat, he smiled and said “democracyâ€.
Comment by willyloman
OMG, that's priceless.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:57 pmRemember, the aftermath of Fahrenheit 9/11, there were so many war supporters that railed against the film.
Sicko is very different. The film is so successful at illustrating the connection between not-for-profit health care and human decency, that almost no "MooreBashers" want to go on record against it.
All they can do is wait and hope that we don't do anything.
And that is what this film is really about.
July 1st, 2007 at 5:59 pmAnd if we hadn't spent all the money we don't really have in Iraq (unprecedented national debt), we could have free health care for All - today - right now - this moment! As the saying goes: "throwing good money after bad only results in more bad!" This, we are seeing right now with our priority being death & destruction instead of health and providing for our own. We've taken our eye off the ball and this country will tank because of that. Surely, administrations have periodically taken their eye off the ball here and there but never have we had 6 long years of our officials playing ball on someone else's court! They've been absent from the real job of caring for american citizens, that's clear.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:02 pmThe 47 million uninsured americans is appalling enough; to know that 9 million of those uninsured and children - yes, our kids - is an abrogation of our duty as parents and caretakers.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:03 pm9 million american children have NO healthcare! Absolutely heinous!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:04 pmI'll stop ranting after this. Promise.
The most moving part of the film for me was a security camera video. No music, no voice over. Silent. A sidewalk on Skid Row and a car pulls up and they drop off this woman, still in her hospital gown.
They leave.
She walks one way, then another. Aimlessly. About two minutes of the film, like a silent movie.
Until a woman slowly approaches her and gently places an arm around her and takes her to a shelter.
I was crying like a child. Not for the woman, but for us. How did we become this?
Something has to be done. Americans are not like that. God, I pray we are not.
See this film.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:04 pm"The Bush administration’s investigation of this movie is certainly not keeping people away.â€
In today's mood, that's actually a ringing endorsement for it!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:05 pm#16 I hear that Moore is taking on the pharmaceutical industry next....tampering with Bush's "Holy Trinity" - whoa! When he gets inside the nuts & bolts of that rape of the citizens of this country, the people will surely revolt.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:05 pmWillyloman: Please don't go away. Your posts are genuine and it's clear that you have a heart and a soul. It's a situation which makes grown adults cry, that's not unique to you. When we get to see, up close and personal, how dastardly we've become all in the name of greed, it is gut-wrenching. Yes, indeed, we have become monsters....aided and abetted by the Marquis de sade and his sidekick....
July 1st, 2007 at 6:07 pm#19 9 million american children have NO healthcare! Absolutely heinous!
Comment by veritas
And your point is.....?
Comment by Dubya/BushCo
July 1st, 2007 at 6:07 pmthe wdc media mavens cannot stand that moore packs more reliable information into his 1-1/2 hour documentaries than they have provided in their decades-long careers.
Comment by linda — July 1, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Yep, it's journalism-envy alright :D
July 1st, 2007 at 6:07 pmI don't know how many people have said to me -- SICKO is propaganda, just like F9/11.
Then I ask them if they saw F9/11, and they say they would never watch a movie by Michael Moore.
I say, what station do you watch for news? FOX.
Uh huh.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:08 pmCNN! Aren't they part of the VWRC corporate media who are giving Glenn Beck a morning show for a week? But now the Moonbats believe them. Now I'm sure Moore is probably wrong again.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:08 pmI don't know when people will decide that we've reached our "nadir" as a nation but I would hope it's coming soon because there isn't enough time left for it to spiral more out of control before total anarchy occurs and this country will be reduced to total chaos.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:08 pmWithout missing a beat, he smiled and said “democracyâ€.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
Awesome!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:09 pm#24 And my point is....."go out on your yacht, Dumb & Dumber, and spend more on gas than it would cost to provide a child some decent healthcare....that's my point, piglet!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:09 pmComment by beefeater — July 1, 2007 @ 6:08 pm
Aren't ya gonna say Michael Moore is fat?
July 1st, 2007 at 6:10 pmUpside00: When it comes to abuse of our children, don't screw with me because I'll chew you up into shreds and spit you into oblivion.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:11 pmAmerica has been fixated on Terrorism and the war in Iraq. Michael Moore has reminded us all that Disease is also a deadly enemy.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:11 pmHealth Care is right behind the War, in polls about what concerns Americans. America needs to SEE how the rest of the Industrialized Countries provide health care for their people, and Michael Moore provides this education.
Hi Zooey: Michael Moore is looking much better, clean shaven and he's walking several miles per day...lost 30 lbs. and really was articulate when promoting his blockbuster new flick.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:12 pmCould Karl Rove PLEASE send us some trolls who can form coherent sentences and actually make an argument? Oh, that's right... All the conservatives with triple digit IQs are now in the 'disapprove' catagory...
July 1st, 2007 at 6:12 pmMichael Moore is fat.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:12 pm#30
But But......if we gave healthcare to all those children (who can't even vote!), what would be in it for us?? How would the K Street Boyz be able to bribe us then? You just don't understand BushCo politics!
Comment by Dubya/BushCo
July 1st, 2007 at 6:12 pmHey Unbelievable! I see we've got a gnat on our threads again tonight....just flick them a bird and they slime away!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:13 pmComment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Thanks for the great post.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:13 pmMichael Moore... should be Michael Snore!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:14 pm23. veritas
Thank you. I certainly wasn't alone in affective this film is. When I saw it Friday, at the end, the entire theatre just sat there watching the credits roll.
We just sat there as if to say, now what do we do.
it is funny and touching, but more than anything else, it is one of those rare glimpses into ourselves.
It condemns the greed of the system and our complacency simultaniously.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:14 pmUpside00: Perhaps I've misjudged your sense of humor?
July 1st, 2007 at 6:14 pmNo one please discuss anything else with Mr. President until he can give a definition of Wayne’s word ‘acerebralist’.
Check the Leahy thread below this one to see why.
Thanks
:D
July 1st, 2007 at 6:14 pmUpside00: When it comes to abuse of our children, don’t screw with me because I’ll chew you up into shreds and spit you into oblivion.
Comment by veritas
I take it you didn't read my post in #24 closely. See who I said made that comment.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:14 pmUpside: If so, I apologize. I see now that perhaps you were using sarcasm. Hope so, anyway. Sarcasm is often mistaken for the typical troll diarrhea at first blush ...
July 1st, 2007 at 6:15 pmComment by unbelievable — July 1, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
I already did, son.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:16 pmCould Karl Rove PLEASE send us some trolls who can form coherent sentences and actually make an argument? Oh, that’s right… All the conservatives with triple digit IQs are now in the ‘disapprove’ catagory…
Comment by unbelievable — July 1, 2007 @ 6:12 pm
That's why we're stuck with the acerebralists. :D
July 1st, 2007 at 6:16 pmHey Unbelievable! I see we’ve got a gnat on our threads again tonight….just flick them a bird and they slime away!
Comment by veritas — July 1, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
How are you?
So far, SiCKO isn't in my area. I'm hoping it will come soon. I hated having to wait until An Inconvenient Truth came out of DVD...
One more year in this red-neck area and I'm off to somewhere bluer... I miss Keith Olbermann.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:16 pmComment by Wayne "A Sophist" Schneider — July 1, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 6:17 pmTypical Lefty Arrogance.
AWWW That's OK veritas, no harm done! I have two children of my own! I think if you follow my posts, I am right with you on almost everything.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:18 pmThat’s why we’re stuck with the acerebralists. :D
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 1, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
You're brilliant. Thanks. :D
July 1st, 2007 at 6:18 pm#41 Moore is genius at reaching into the core of the human being, pulling up a few mirrors for each of us, and then giving us the one-two punch in the gut we need to awaken us from the sheer overdose of corruption which has lulled an entire country into complacency and the worst kinds of human behavior.
I love how his audiences are left sitting there with the credits rolling but with a new sense of profound responsibility to right the wrongs which have been committed.
Each of his incredibly poignant productions rivets you to the seat, takes you on a ride to Space Mountain, and then dumps you back onto the streets of the Magic Kingdom in full sunlight....you're left standing there, seemingly naked & awakened....thinking: Now I ABSOLUTELY MUST take action! He's remarkable in his sheer genius to active the higher, more spiritual senses of our being.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:19 pmAnybody here seen 'The Power of Nightmares" by Adam Curtis?
July 1st, 2007 at 6:19 pmWayne,
The trolls are now Fascist-Acerebralists?
Maybe Authoritarian-Acerebralists?
July 1st, 2007 at 6:19 pmHow many experienced a spontaneous standing ovation during the credits of F9/11?
It happened both times I saw it in the theater.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:21 pmBravo to Moore, so I hope his film causes the health insurance industry to be terminated, and single-payer system like Canada to replace it.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:22 pmI think if you follow my posts, I am right with you on almost everything.
Comment by upside00 — July 1, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 6:22 pmECHO... ECHo... ECho... Echo... echo...
If you were outraged by Sicko (or what you've read about it so far if you haven't seen it), there is something you can do about it.
http://www.onecarenow.org
July 1st, 2007 at 6:23 pmhttp://www.healthcareforall.org
Typical Lefty Sophist. Can’t admit when he’s wrong.
Comment by Mr. President
Comment by Wayne “A Sophist†Schneider — July 1, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
Typical Lefty Arrogance.
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
Now which is it? Am I a Typical Lefty Sophist because of my arrogance? Or is my Typical Lefty Arrogance a result of my Sophistry?
By the way, if you truly understood what a "Sophist" is, you would know why it doesn't bother me to be called that. In fact, that proves my point.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:23 pmHere in Hell Hole, MA, they are not even showing the movie in the largest Theater.
Miniblue made me proud when she asked the manager as to why Sicko was not being shown on any screen.
The pissant Mgr. quipped" Because we didn't receive it."
Mini looked at her and said, "That's your excuse? That's sad."
She thanked her and walked away.
**sniff** I guess I did something right.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:24 pmThe trolls are now Fascist-Acerebralists?
Maybe Authoritarian-Acerebralists?
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
With 'megalostomies'
July 1st, 2007 at 6:25 pmComment by Wayne "Arrogant Sophist" Schneider — July 1, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
You are both, and your comment didn't make a bit of sense.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:26 pmHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Power of Nightmares" is a three-part documentary that the BBC produced about the rise of the NeoCons from Leo Strauss till now.
Very good film.
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
free on the net, here.
Connection with "Sicko" is that while this was going on, the AMA and other conservatives started attacking Universal Health Care as the gateway drug to communism. It was a marketing campaign designed to counter Trumans attempt at U.H.C.
St. Ronnie did some voice overs for the propaganda records.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:26 pmHow many experienced a spontaneous standing ovation during the credits of F9/11?
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
Me too... But I was living in San Francisco at the time and went with a big group of co-workers after work.
I miss that...
July 1st, 2007 at 6:26 pm"**sniff** I guess I did something right."
Comment by trueblue — July 1, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
Sure sounds like you did--way to go, trueblue!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:29 pm**sniff** I guess I did something right.
Comment by trueblue
Excellent response to that manager's smart-assed remark.
Yay, miniblue!!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:32 pmSomething has to be done. Americans are not like that. God, I pray we are not.
See this film.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
We are a PRETEND Christian country!!!
There's NOTHING that this government does to prove otherwise...just a bunch of Jesusmongers!!!!
Remember! Nazis where so-called "Christians" too!!
Hitler was a Christian!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:34 pmOT, Zooey, trueblue, something new on the "old home-blog" - check it out when you get a chance.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:34 pmThanks Jane, Zooey.
Miniblue just read your comments - big smile.
You guys are great.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:35 pmdixie blood,
Have you been gone awhile, or is it me?
Anyway, nice to see you.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:36 pmMini looked at her and said, “That’s your excuse? That’s sad.â€
She thanked her and walked away.
**sniff** I guess I did something right.
Comment by trueblue
The hope of the next generation. very nice.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:36 pmI'm very lucky, willyloman.
I wouldn't have been *nearly* as nice.
(true)
July 1st, 2007 at 6:38 pmJane,
Blog linkee on your name no workee.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:39 pmsame with me!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:39 pmOops, sorry, I had mistyped the address in my URI. Try it again.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:42 pmHitler was a Christian!!!!
Comment by dixie blood
I agree there are those who profess a connection between our democracy and christianity. But this isn't about that.
This is something inherant in all of us. Empathy is instinctual in us. It is how we are wired.
Even you, Mr. President (you facist pigdog) are be compelled to help those in need. It is no more a religious decree than is breathing.
And this film touches that place in us. Even the right-wing nut jobs walk out of the theatre wanting some more from our society.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:42 pmBlog linkee on your name no workee.
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 6:39 pm
Sounds sort of rascist though I belief you not
July 1st, 2007 at 6:50 pmJane and Wayne;
I hope that freedonrings apologised to the two of you for his comments earlier. It was completely over the line.
July 1st, 2007 at 6:50 pmHitler was a Christian!!!!
Comment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
No, you idiot.
Hitler was a neo-Pagan.
God you Leftists are dumb.
But Jesus still loves you.
CHENEY 2008!!!
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Git-R-Dun!!! dixie blood!!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 6:55 pmSounds sort of rascist though I belief you not
Comment by dbadass
It's just silly talk, that's all. :)
July 1st, 2007 at 6:55 pmAnd this film touches that place in us. Even the right-wing nut jobs walk out of the theatre wanting some more from our society.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 6:57 pmI don't want Michael Bore to touch me anywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. President > Moore is a straight guy, but Bush might grab your crotch if you are cute > wink.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:03 pm"Jane and Wayne;
I hope that freedonrings apologised to the two of you for his comments earlier. It was completely over the line."
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Unlikely, willy, you saw the "retraction" that was not a retraction. Then the fake retraction got retracted again within a minute or two. No, no, in his mind, we forced him to threaten us, and that's that.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:03 pmI would take a physical from Zooey any day of the week. She's hot!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:03 pmMr. President > Moore is a straight guy, but Bush might grab your crotch if you are cute > wink.
Comment by Jay Randal — July 1, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Why is putting on that glove then?!?!?!
Moore wants to test men for prostate cancer!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:07 pmZooey > Bean is after you now > lol.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:07 pm#79, Mr. P
Hitler always maintained an honor and belief in Jesus. This alone put him as a Christian believer. But Hitler went beyond just belief in Jesus; he devoted his entire political life to deeds aimed at creating a race of people in the pure image of God.
Some claim that Hitler lied when promoting religion, for political reasons but nothing in the historical record indicates this, nor would there appear any reason for him to do so. Why spend so much valuable resources to rid Germany of Jews if not from some profound justification?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:08 pmThe hate must stem from some source and the historical record shows that anti-Judaism had long lived in the minds of Christians ever since Paul separated his community of believers from the law and people of Judaism.
Hitler wrote: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." As a boy, Hitler attended to the Catholic church and experienced the anti-Semitic attitude of his culture. In his book, Mein Kampf, Hitler reveals himself as a fanatical believer in God and country.
Threaten?
You two?
Wha? And it hasn't been permanently banned?
Friggin TP!! - - When are you going to live up to your promises? 9 months now.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:08 pmJane;
Well, I am sorry to hear that. He's in a dark little place where any attention is better than none. I suppose.
Have you had a chance to see Sicko? Obviously, I highly recommend it.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:08 pmComment by Howard Bean — July 1, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
Unless you're one of the "Beans of Eygpt Maine" you might want to think first before you speak. Both men and women prefer manners
July 1st, 2007 at 7:09 pm#10 zooey,
July 1st, 2007 at 7:10 pmI think I heard Michael Moore's movie is opening in many more theaters next week.
Mr. President > I have had only one prostate exam and the doctor jabbed my prostate gland and I almost jumped out the window. He laughed, because he said one young guy he examined rushed out of his office naked, drove off nude, and never came back to get his clothes.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:10 pmThanks for the advice, dbadass. What's the story on Zooey?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:11 pmComment by Marie — July 1, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Hitler was a neo-Paganist.
He wanted to viewed as God.
He went so far as to tell the Church that they must put his picture above the cross.
Not very Christian if you ask me.
But when he learned that that was not such a good idea politically, he backed down.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:11 pmComment by Jay Randal — July 1, 2007 @ 7:10 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 7:12 pmLOL!!!!
Too much information though.
Erratum post #94) Should say - "He wanted to be viewed as God."
July 1st, 2007 at 7:13 pmMr. President. If that is the case, why do you get a prostate exam every week on payday?
Come on now, be honest. For most of us, a prostate exam doesn't come with a happy ending.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:13 pmCome on now, be honest. For most of us, a prostate exam doesn’t come with a happy ending.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 7:14 pmTypical Leftist Snide Remarks.
good
July 1st, 2007 at 7:14 pmThanks for the advice, dbadass. What’s the story on Zooey?
Comment by Howard Bean — July 1, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
Ask Zooey! I'm nobody. I just know me and imagine others as I perceive them to be relative to how I see me. She seems cool though...
July 1st, 2007 at 7:15 pm"Have you had a chance to see Sicko? Obviously, I highly recommend it."
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Not yet. It's playing about 18 miles away, though, so we'll probably go soon. From your description, I'd better bring tissues.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:16 pmTypical Leftist Snide Remarks.
Comment by Mr. President
What do you expect from an Islamo-Stalinist like myself?
but you are getting alittle hot, aren't you?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:17 pmWhen I told my sister about my prostate exam she said maybe the doctor did not use his finger. I did not talk to her for about a month > lol.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:17 pmI just know me and imagine others as I perceive them to be relative to how I see me. She seems cool though…
Comment by dbadass — July 1, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
HEY!!!!
I thought I was the only solipsist here!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:19 pmand guess what...
I still do!!!
OY!
Honey, I don't know about this Bean man...
Too eager, if you know what I mean.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:19 pmComment by trueblue — July 1, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
I come and go...
July 1st, 2007 at 7:21 pmComment by trueblue — July 1, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Yeah, Wayne and I have had our first "death threat"! On the Al Gore thread, check it out. Enjoy!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:21 pmComment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
Read a little more than one reference, Mr. P.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:22 pmHitler was a catholic, later christian, later a self-worshipper, but he was foremost an anti-Jew, which was a common feeling about so called "christ-killers" among christians for centuries.
Jane; If you get a chance, do check out "The Power of Nightmares" at
http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares
details the rise of NeoCon movement and the Islamist fundamentalism of the Muslem Brotherhood and others.
on a side note. Both movements got their start in 1949.
"Death of a Salesman" Premired in 1949.
Hence, willyloman
July 1st, 2007 at 7:22 pmComment by Marie — July 1, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Umm... by being foremost an anti-Jew, ipso facto, he was not a Christian proper.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:23 pmI still do!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Riiiiight... Mr P., the rest of us are just those little voices in the back of your head...
July 1st, 2007 at 7:24 pmNeither is President Bush, Mr. President.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:24 pmrise of NeoCon movement and the Islamist fundamentalism of the Muslem Brotherhood and others.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:25 pmon a side note. Both movements got their start in 1949.
“Death of a Salesman†Premired in 1949.
Hence, willyloman
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
Typical Islamo-Stalinist Know-it-all.
Hitler was a neo-Pagan.
God you Leftists are dumb.
But Jesus still loves you.
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
Y'all,
More ignorant crap from a repugniscum, boy touching, I love me a hole-bunch-o-Jebus troll!!
Ignore this a$$wipe!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:25 pmMr. Badass:
July 1st, 2007 at 7:25 pmTake a call from the President?
Neither is President Bush, Mr. President.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
Why, is he anti-Jew?
Link please.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:26 pmThere are a lot of improper christians in the world, Mr. P, particularly in the republican party of the USA, headed by the most glaring example of the anti-christ George W. Bush.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:26 pmI thought I was the only solipsist here!!!
If you believe your mind is the only thing that exists, then arent you really just arguing with yourself?
Also known as mental masturbation.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:26 pmMr. President; do you just keep a list of the same old tired remarks to cut an paste, or do you prefer no original thoughts enter your mind?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:26 pm“Death of a Salesman†Premired in 1949.
Hence, willyloman"
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:22 pm
One of my favorite (if you want to call it that) tragedies. I want to cry all the way through it.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:27 pmthe word christian comes from christ - and the teachings of jesus are so far removed from the behavior of GWB that there is no possible way he could be a christian in his black heart.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:27 pmMr. President; do you just keep a list of the same old tired remarks to cut an paste, or do you prefer no original thoughts enter your mind?
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
I decide when the remarks get old... heheh... I'm the Decider... heh
July 1st, 2007 at 7:28 pmI wonder if Zooey shall return. I need her wisdom, her motherly love.
Please, Zooey. Don't leave me hanging in the balance.
Answer my call....
July 1st, 2007 at 7:29 pmAlso known as mental masturbation.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
24/7
365
What a life of mine this is?!?!
Thanks, me!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:29 pmSam Brownbag 2008!
Sammy Sez:
"I will begin each day as president on my knees asking God to bless America. This is a nation that was built on faith, we need to invite it in. ... the motto of our nation is 'in God we trust'. We are a faith based nation and I would start my first day in office doing something that Abraham Lincoln called us to do, ask the country to pray together."
Jesus Marimba...
-GSD
July 1st, 2007 at 7:30 pmI wonder if Zooey shall return. I need her wisdom, her motherly love.
Please, Zooey. Don’t leave me hanging in the balance.
Answer my call….
Comment by Dean of Trolls — July 1, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
Are you the real Dean?
... if so, use the Presidential seal.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:30 pmOne of my favorite (if you want to call it that) tragedies. I want to cry all the way through it.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
It was written following the model of Greek Tragedy. And it has always been my favorite American Play.
It would be quite timely now, wouldn't it?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:31 pmBottom Line,
Moore and "Sicko" are correct and the asswiping trolls here are trying to stop or distract us from this simple truth reaching the public...are loosers to the core!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:31 pmThank you, Solipsist.
I had to look that word up.
sol·ip·sist –noun
1. Philosophy. the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.
2. extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one's feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.
I learned a new word today - and it's one I can apply everyday.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:31 pmI decide when the remarks get old… heheh… I’m the Decider… heh
Comment by Mr. President
lol
July 1st, 2007 at 7:32 pmâ€
The dean is in his office, Mr. President. Any requests, sir?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:33 pmThe dean is in his office, Mr. President. Any requests, sir?
Comment by Dean of Trolls — July 1, 2007 @ 7:33 pm
Well Howdy, Dean!!!
How ya been???
July 1st, 2007 at 7:36 pmI learned a new word today - and it’s one I can apply everyday.
Comment by trueblue — July 1, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
You are welcome trueblue.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:36 pm… if so, use the Presidential seal.
Comment by Mr. President
What will the Presidential seal do, flop around on stage and beg for fish?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:37 pmI know that it is playing a very limited run, but as someone who has seen Sicko, I tell you you will not regret the commute to see it.
I think it will have a profound impact on this society.
I know it did on me and everyone in the theatre the day I saw it.
You go see it too, Mr. President. Do you some good to remind yourself that you can still be loosely described as "human".
Got to go find out what the dog is barking at.
Islamo-Stalinists Unite!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:37 pmRequests:
Hell yes...
Can yawl shut up before I propane your asses.
xxoo
July 1st, 2007 at 7:37 pmHank Hill
"Well Howdy, Dean!!!
How ya been???"
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
You've got to stop talking to yourself, Mr. President.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:37 pmY'all,
Mr President is an in house troll approved to be here by TP.
When has anyone else here been allowed to take on the moniker of an existing person or entity.
In the past, anyone here who pretended to be "mAnn Coulter" or the VP, etc. had their monikers deleted and they were banned by IP address.
This a$$hole lives on despite breaking all of the rules established here for several years...
Nice try TP..."Mr. President" has been outed or my name is Dick Cheney!!!
Sincerely,
July 1st, 2007 at 7:38 pm--Dick(head) Cheney!!
Thanks, me!!!
Comment by Mr. President
What is funny is that since its all in your head YOU are the Islamo-Stalinist. Thanks you.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:39 pmIslamo-Stalinists Unite!
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Blatant Islamophile Arrogance.
You do know that TP has your IP, you Muslim-Loving Lefty?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:40 pmGod bless you Mr. President, and all 10 of your chubby little brown stained fingers.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:41 pmNice try TP…â€Mr. President†has been outed or my name is Dick Cheney!!!
Comment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
I would be honored if that were true.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:42 pmGit-R-Dun, dixie blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You do know that TP has your IP, you Muslim-Loving Lefty? Comment by Mr. President
I see that you do not understand the TCP/IP MAC protocols.
One IP address can be shared by many computers because they are assigned by a MAC number. Like a proxy server does.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:42 pmGod bless you Mr. President, and all 10 of your chubby little brown stained fingers.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Thanks! Don't forget that Jesus still loves you, even though you going to hell.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:43 pmGood Evening, boss. The dean is swell, anti-IslamoStalinist shield in full force.
As an update to your previous inquiry, I have decided not appoint Gaydar3000 to the faculty. Instead, I am considering an offer to 'kilo.'
A full-force offensive to debunk libetroll myths will soon commence. The outcome is predictable, as they will surrender (a no brainer).
Have any additional strategies, Mr. President? You are the President of Trolls here at TP.org, you know.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:44 pmOne IP address can be shared by many computers because they are assigned by a MAC number. Like a proxy server does.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
Oh yeah, I just remembered.
Thanks, me.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:44 pmOh yeah, I just remembered. Thanks, me. Comment by Mr. President
Why do I love to hate myself?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:45 pmOne IP address can be shared by many computers because they are assigned by a MAC number. Like a proxy server does.
Comment by Solipsist
I gotta tell ya, it's truly exciting when techies get into a fight...
July 1st, 2007 at 7:46 pmComment by Dean of Trolls — July 1, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Good choice, Kilo is not American though, so we will have to keep an eye on him.
Gaydar was alright, but he has not proven himself yet.
I have found that if you engage FART&PEE (aka Bartlebee) in a minor discussion, he will go on and on for hours and hence do the trolls work. You may want to try it out.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:47 pmComment by Jane E. Schneider
I am CT_V1, appointed as the dean, Mrs. Schneider. Rest assured, Mr. President and I are two entirely different people. Mr. President is my boss, he handles all troll operations here at TP.org.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:47 pmSince we ALL know that I will go to hell, I will no LONGER be
"Mr. Bush Goes To Hell"...
My NEW moniker for my
TIME LEFT HERE ON EARTH BEFORE I GO TO HELL
will be
George W. ISLAMOTerrorist, the Saudi OIL WHOREBAG
P.S. My buddy Prince BANDAR BUSH says "Allahu Akbar" Y'ALLQueda!
My MAMA gave him that name. SHE'S an OIL WHOREBAG, too!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:48 pmI guess one advantage of being a solipsist is that you don't have to explain what "acerebralic" means if you don't want to.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:48 pmI gotta tell ya, it’s truly exciting when techies get into a fight…
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Techie Smechie. I exist in Gods (Mr Presidents mind) just like you.
Heh.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:48 pmMini looked at her and said, “That’s your excuse? That’s sad.â€
She thanked her and walked away.
**sniff** I guess I did something right.
Comment by trueblue
Oh you should be so proud, and you were going to deny her that puppy.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:49 pmComment by George W. ISLAMOTerrorist, the Saudi OIL WHOREBAG — July 1, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 7:49 pmTypical Islamo-Stalinist wanna-be.
You're trying to hard Mr. BgtH...
Oh you should be so proud, and you were going to deny her that puppy.
Comment by shane
Maybe she did deny miniblue the puppy -- who's losing the sleep? :D
July 1st, 2007 at 7:51 pmI guess one advantage of being a solipsist is that you don’t have to explain what “acerebralic†means if you don’t want to.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
If there is only one cerebral entity (Mr God President) then there cannot be an acerebralic one.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:51 pmSorry, didn't mean an adjective form of "acerebralist".
July 1st, 2007 at 7:51 pmComment by Wayne "Arrogant Sophist" Schneider — July 1, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Typical Lefty Know-it-all.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:53 pmYou’re trying to hard Mr. BgtH… Comment by Mr. President
No. We, that is YOU, are trying too hard. Why do We, You, hate myself?
July 1st, 2007 at 7:54 pmAllahu Akbar! Y'ALLQueda!!!
George W. ISLAMOTerrorist, the Saudi OIL WHOREBAG
July 1st, 2007 at 7:54 pmOY!
Honey, I don’t know about this Bean man…
Too eager, if you know what I mean.
Comment by Yenta's Protege
Right on the money Ms. Protege. If Yenta doesn't watch out you'll be taking her job soon.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:54 pmAllahu Akbar! Y’ALLQueda!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:55 pmGeorge W. ISLAMOTerrorist, the Saudi OIL WHOREBAG
Comment by George W. ISLAMOTerrorist, the Saudi OIL WHOREBAG — July 1, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Typical UnAmerican Islamophile.
Comment by Mr. President
I think FART&PEE takes notes from 'TripMaster Monkey,' where he opines on minor grammar issues (or what he mistakenly believes to be grammar issues) on a casual blog, in part to divert attention from the subject matter. It's irritating, and I suppose that's his intent.
If TP were to clean house on trolls, I get the feeling that you and I wouldn't be the first ones on the cutting block.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:56 pmMe, dammit!
My eyes are closing as I type.
Poopie-head woke up ~ 1:00am, and then Icouldn't sleep until ~4:30am
Little Miss Sunshine woke @ 8:00am.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:56 pmShe's killin' me.
Typical UnAmerican Islamophile.
Comment by Mr. President
Yeh, me, YOU should stop holding hands with Saudi Prince YOU at the Crawford ranch.
July 1st, 2007 at 7:59 pmHealth care in this country sucks regardless of Ms. Pee's presence here...Sicko is the truth and Repuguiscums will fight with every moron they have (ie Ms. Pee here) to make sure that we are continually screwed into the ground with every dollar we earn...
And Repupugiscums don't earn money...they inherit it...steal it...etc...Repugniscums don't hold real jobs...they are "contractors" or "consultants' or some other sh!t!!
You never here a repugniscum admit to being a carpenter or an electrician...that would be beneath them!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 7:59 pmThe typical un-American is George W. Bush who ferried Bin Laden's family out of America on 9/12 and wants to instead have the right to look at my Grandma's e-mailed apple-pie recipes without a warrant.
-GSD
July 1st, 2007 at 8:00 pmIf TP were to clean house on trolls, I get the feeling that you and I wouldn’t be the first ones on the cutting block.
Comment by Dean of Trolls — July 1, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Certainly not.
You should see all of the anti-American, pro-Muslim shit that some people post...
Yesterday I read that Juan C. thinks that OBL was a scapegoat for the US govt!!!
The nerve of these Leftist Islamo-Stalinists!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:00 pmYesterday I read that Juan C. thinks that OBL was a scapegoat for the US govt!!!
The nerve of these Leftist Islamo-Stalinists!!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Since Juan C isn't here to defend himself, you should leave him out of the discussion.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:01 pmYou never here a repugniscum admit to being a carpenter or an electrician…that would be beneath them!!!
Comment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
I was a contractor's apprentice for 4 years.
But then, I'm not repugniscum...
I'm Metaprogressive (tm)
July 1st, 2007 at 8:02 pmThe nerve of these Leftist Islamo-Stalinists!!!!
Comment by Mr. President
The nerve of YOU!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:02 pmGod bless you Mr. President, and all 10 of your chubby little brown stained fingers.
Comment by willyloman
Why are his fingers ... nevermind, I don't want to know.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:03 pmI’m Metaprogressive ™
Comment by Mr. President
Then so are YOU we!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:03 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
Fine. It's not like it's a secret or anything.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:04 pmI’m Metaprogressive ™
Comment by Mr. President
Then so are YOU we!
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Indeed, I am, I am, indeed.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:05 pmMaybe she did deny miniblue the puppy — who’s losing the sleep? :D
Comment by Zooey
Good point, so when IS miniblue going to get a puppy?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:06 pmFine. It’s not like it’s a secret or anything.
Comment by Mr. President
Right. So wait until he shows up, and ask him about it.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:07 pmYesterday I read that Juan C. thinks that OBL was a scapegoat for the US govt!!!
The nerve of these Leftist Islamo-Stalinists!!!!
Comment by Mr. President
It's so predictable, yet so surprising the talk that some comes from these Islamo-Stalinists. I mean, really, he said that? I have nothing against Juan personally, but it's nuts that anybody would say that.
I wish I could continue, Mr. President, but I need to close the office for the evening. As president, you'll engage effectively and swiftly with these Islamo-Stalinists. I will return as soon as I can.
Until then, the Dean.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:07 pmWhy are his fingers … nevermind, I don’t want to know.
Comment by shane
In order to save money to donate to the Repugs, Mr. President has learned to give himself the prostate exams.
It took alot of practice. And he is proud of his accomplishment.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmComment by Dean of Trolls — July 1, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
Peace, Dean.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmComment by Mr. President
I think FART&PEE takes notes from ‘TripMaster Monkey,’ where he opines on minor grammar issues (or what he mistakenly believes to be grammar issues) on a casual blog, in part to divert attention from the subject matter. It’s irritating, and I suppose that’s his intent.
If TP were to clean house on trolls, I get the feeling that you and I wouldn’t be the first ones on the cutting block.
Comment by Dean of Trolls
Look Bartlebee, these two pathetic trolls have posting envy.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmThe nerve of these Leftist Islamo-Stalinists!!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 8:00 pm
Here's what I take from trolls like Ms. Pee...
"The Isamo's are here...please daddy GW Botch save me from these free thinking people...(that are actually Americans) because...
I'm so afraid...
I'm peeing my pants...
Please Daddy Botch please save me...
How will I ever change my underwear with my own boy-touching mind watching myself?
It's so cold standing here in my piss soaked clothes....GW Botch why do you forsake me!!!"
Islamo!!
Islamo...run..run...run...
Ms. Pee is one completely frightened worthless child!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmGood point, so when IS miniblue going to get a puppy?
Comment by shane
When hell freezes over. :D
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmComment by Zooey
Zooey, good evening to you.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:08 pmZooey, good evening to you.
Comment by Dean of Trolls
Good evening, CT.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:10 pmI’m Metaprogressive ™
Comment by Mr. President
What is a Metaprogressive? Got a link?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:12 pmComment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 8:12 pmTypical Islamophile Ignorance.
Comment by shane — July 1, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
Me, baby!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:13 pmThe Hebrew Jehovah was "I am." So was Ormuzd, the Ahura-Mazda of the old Mazdeans.
You Islamophile YOU Mr President.
Ahura Mazda is the Avestan language name for an exalted divinity of ancient proto-Indo-Iranian religion that was subsequently declared by Zarathustra ...
July 1st, 2007 at 8:13 pmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahura_Mazda
In order to save money to donate to the Repugs, Mr. President has learned to give himself the prostate exams.
It took alot of practice. And he is proud of his accomplishment.
Comment by willyloman
I thought that was one of the Dean of Trolls' duties, or should I say doodies.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:14 pmTypical Islamophile Ignorance.
Comment by Mr. President
Typical Islamo Ignorance YOU.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:14 pmMe, baby!
Comment by Mr. President
But we don't have any idea what you are. So do you have a link for Metaprogressive?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:16 pmMr. President? What took you so long to respond to Dixie blood's post?
Were you...changing your pants? Maybe?
Thinking about touching yourself again? Touching that prostate?
mmmmmmm, prostate.
You know, Jesus sees you when you do that?
So does Cheney. You have been under survailance for months now.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:17 pmTypical Islamophile Ignorance.
Comment by Mr. President
Typical Islamo Ignorance YOU.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 8:14 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 8:18 pmTypical Islamo-Stalinist Arrogance.
Back to the point of Sicko. The more people who go see it, under limited distribution, the wider the distribution will be. So anybody who can SHOULD run and see it ASAP. Plus it will have the industry sweating, double plus good.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:18 pmComment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
Yeah I know about Zoroaster and the Zend people, me.
I don't need to keep reminding myself.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:19 pmComment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
Especially not with the Muslim-Loving wikipedia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:19 pmMr. President? What took you so long to respond to Dixie blood’s post?
Were you…changing your pants? Maybe?
Thinking about touching yourself again? Touching that prostate?
mmmmmmm, prostate.
You know, Jesus sees you when you do that?
So does Cheney. You have been under survailance for months now.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
What post of dixie blood?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:20 pmOnce again,
Ms. Pee is one completely frightened worthless child!!!
Screaming Islamo..Islamo...
Well, Ms. Pee IsLameOh!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:20 pmIsLameOh!
IsLameOh!
IsLameOh!
IsLameOh!
Mr. President? What took you so long to respond to Dixie blood’s post?
Were you…changing your pants? Maybe?
Thinking about touching yourself again? Touching that prostate?
mmmmmmm, prostate.
You know, Jesus sees you when you do that?
So does Cheney. You have been under survailance for months now.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
This post?
Comment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 8:22 pmIt took 4 minutes!!! If you think that is long, no wonder no one listens to you Lefty cut-and-runners.
IsLameOh!
Comment by dixie blood — July 1, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
Heh.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:24 pmIslam IsLame
Kinda funny, I think I'll use that sometime.
GIT-R-DUN dixie blood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does it take you longer to change your sopping wet pants? or finger your prostate? Which take more time, Mr. President. an anxious nation needs to know.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:27 pmKinda funny, I think I’ll use that sometime.
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 8:24 pm
Notice, y'all that Ms. Pee can't think for herself either...she has to steal clever comments from others...the true sign of a complete and unabated MORON!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:27 pmI am not one given to hyperbole but I must echo the comments of others on this site that Moore's film came across as very powerful. The first half of the film allowed those who were abused by America's health care system to tell their heart-wrenching stories while the second half focused mainly on those countries whose health care system does an excellent job in providing for the welfare of its citizenry. France was perhaps the most impressive [though Canada, Britain and Cuba all do quite well while spending less money on its citizens than the U.S.] allowing its citizens a 35 hour work week, a minimum vacation of five weeks [again, that is the minimum]. There was an amazing scene where a French government employee goes to the home of a woman to assist her and her children by doing their laundry for her! Can one imagine that situation happening in the U.S.? Another scene had an element of deja vu when Moore followed a French doctor on his rounds when he performed the radical task of making house calls on his patients! That has not happened in this country for probably the last forty years. As someone either in England in France noted, in America the people fear what the government may do to them while in most of Europe the government listens and respects the wishes of the people.
This film is truly a must see, regardless of whether one is Democratic or Republican, liberal or conservative, rich or poor. The hope is that Moore's film will provide the cornerstone for long needed reform in this country before more people have to forego health coverage in what is usually touted as the richest country in the world.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:31 pmwell said,erroll
July 1st, 2007 at 8:33 pmThe summary below includes comparisons of the American health care system relative to other countries and between the states, plus data on the uninsured, rising health care costs, the woes of Medicare and Medicaid and more.
For all the details, see:
July 1st, 2007 at 8:45 pm"SiCKO Required Reading: U.S. Health Care by the Numbers."
ISA
Instant Spontaneous Applause.
I don't remember being in a movie theater before when the entire audience bust into applause at the last line of the movie, but it happened with SICKO.
We all know people that hate Michael Moore. My sister is one of them. But my sister also thinks Ann Coulter is a "reasonable" person. My sister is an idiot. But I can't even imagine Ann Coulter going to this movie and not at least give it a "thumbs-up".
And how simple. I mean really, what more does Michael do than walk around with a camera? No sets, actors, maybe a prop or two and Za-zam! here we are! Of course it's harder than that and Michael has talent for making it look easier than is most likely really is, but mostly that's us in those lenses. Candid camera on steroids in the a man of Michael's talent.
Seeing ourselves up on that screen brings it home. Those aren't actors, those are us and hence I can understand why some people hate Mr. Moore. If you worked for the corporate health care industry in this country, you might not want to go see this movie, the quilt you'll feel on the way home might force you to do the right thing or drive your car off a cliff. (Make sure your policy is paid - not that it would help, as you already know.)
This is a "break though" film. I think it's going to be real hard for Michael to do any more films like this himself. What politician, (other than the few un-corrupted or the stupid), corporate employee, certainly not any managers or CEO's would allow Mr. Moore to show them as they really are? I think Michael's going to have to use shills, other talented candid-camera investigative journalism types to continue in this way. If indeed that is what he wishes to do.
I have always enjoyed Mike's work, and unlike my idiot sister (after all what award has Ann Coulter ever won?) feel good for him and hope he continues to shed light on us. Warts and all.
Ah, ahem, hey Mike, I hear you have some questions about 9/11 ...?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:46 pmwillyloman is nothing more than a great con!repug troll!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:46 pm
DEMONACRACY IS WHAT GOT US IN THIS MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:51 pmBUSH SPREADING DEMONACRACY!
demonacracy is freedumb!!!
I MUST EMPHASISE FIRST!
My husband went and saw it last night. He is a physician and very active in the movement trying to fix the broken health care system in this country. He went with an open mind, actually, he was kind of skeptical because he had heard that Moore may have gone after docs as well and there had not been a lot of info out before the movie premiered. He came home very impressed.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:53 pm@#14.
WHAT IS IT YOU SAID????????????????????????????????????????
Moore asks a man in England,
July 1st, 2007 at 8:54 pm
July 1st, 2007 at 8:55 pm
any QUESTIONS?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:56 pm
I watched Michael Moore on Larry King, I really wanted to clap at least 3 times.
All sane people have said he's really matured as both a person and a movie-maker... and I really have to agree.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:56 pmYOU TROLLS ARE REALLY CLEVER!!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:57 pm
any QUESTIONS?
July 1st, 2007 at 8:58 pmI have one. WHy do you have to write in BOLD? I hate reading anything in bold..
YOU TROLLS ARE REALLY CLEAVER AND SNEAKY!!!!!!!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 8:58 pm
well, .....at least you can read.
July 1st, 2007 at 8:59 pmNotice, y’all that Ms. Pee can’t think for herself either…she has to steal clever comments from others…the true sign of a complete and unabated MORON!!!
Comment by dixie blood
Mr P ( PIPpy) is like a town drunk standing in the street, throwing coins in the sewer, then looking at the town clock and yelling to everyone how much he weighs.
He thinks he is being smart and everyone else is just laughing their asses off at him =)
July 1st, 2007 at 9:03 pmThanks..
July 1st, 2007 at 9:05 pmBush is adrift at sea and out to lunch.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:10 pmI have to admit, even speaking as a 'neocon', therefore brainwashed and ignorant (lol) that M.Moore might have nailed it with Sicko. His 9-11 conspiracy crud didn't do it for me, and although I haven't seen Sicko yet, anything that brings attention to the horrid state of affairs that is our health system and the insurance companies can't be bad.
I have a son with special needs and I could BUILD the equipment that he needs 20 times for what they charge for it. A chair....with wheels.....$1700?? A gait-trainer.....$2400. Sorry, healthcare and ridiculous profits for doing the decent thing irks me. You want a chair? 20 bucks. Oh wait, it's for someone w/ special needs? That'll be 1500 more dollars. It makes ME Sick-O.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:11 pmSGT Higgins
July 1st, 2007 at 9:25 pmyou hit the nail perfectly.
i visited your site.i will praay and hope that your son gets better.
but, whatever happens, don,t blame God. Blame the Devil(Freedom).
Unless of course he gets better, then you can thank God.
just a small reminder,, 6.6 billion people alive on earth today.
but, where are they?
count your blessings. some people,(Iraqis,Afganis) have children too.
think about it.
sorry to bear bad news.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 1, 2007 @ 9:11 pm
It was my opinion that Michael Moore exposed the fact that Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, simply by doing nothing to stop it. No conspiracy there, Sarge.
I have a friend who works in VocRehab (helping adults with special needs break into the working world), and when I hear what they pay for needed equipment my jaw drops. It's obscene.
Best of luck to you with your son. When you see SICKO, will you come back and tell us what you think?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:29 pmIt took 4 minutes!!! If you think that is long, no wonder no one listens to you Lefty cut-and-runners. -Mr P.
Yeh, that Lefty Bush Sr cut and ran from Iraq!
July 1st, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
Zooey, are you a LIHOP?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:34 pmSGT Higgins,
I hadn't realized your name connected to your son's website. I was just there, and he's absolutely adorable. He's a little fighter! As the mother of an extremely healthy son with autism, I can only imagine your challenges with your little guy's physical problems. My thoughts are with you and your family.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:38 pmSo how can I find when it is screening in Northern Florida? In Jacksonville and south to Daytona, the "health" insurance industry is a mainstay.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:39 pmZooey, are you a LIHOP?
Comment by Mr. President
I don't know. Why don't you tell me what it is?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:39 pmSGT. Higgins
This is not meant in a patrionizing way but you seem to be looking at this in an objective way and that is even before not seeing Moore's film. Andrew Gumbel of The Independent tells the story of a woman who gave birth to premature twins in Austin, Tx. One of the twins developed cerebral palsy. Her doctors told her that physical therapy should be used in order to build up her son's muscle strength in order to give him a better chance of learning to walk. Her health care provider said that they would not honor her doctor's recommendation.
As the article stated 'The crazy bureaucratic logic was that the policy covered only 'rehabilitative' therapy-teaching a patient a lost physical skill. Since her son Parker had never walked, the therapy was in essence teaching him a new skill and did not qualify. The Hilsabecks railed, protested, won some small reprieves, but ended up selling their home and moving into a trailer to cover their costs."
The husband then checked with another insurance carrier who asked the husband and wife "When is he getting over the cerebral palsy?" When they told him that he would have this for the rest of his life, the health insurance company told them that there was nothing that they could do for their son.
As someone in Moore's film stated, health coverage should be considered a right and not a privilege [ which would seem to be the opposite of being granted a driver's license, which is considered a privilege and not a right]. To risk a political statement, the astronomical sum of money that the U.S. is currently spending in Iraq [ perhaps around $450 billion?] could certainly be better spent caring for the needs of its citizens in this country. It is simply an outrage that the U.S., especially compared to other industrialized countries [it is ranked 37th by the WHO] cannot provide not simply basic but excellent health care for its citizens. Again, Sicko is a film that every American should see so that these necessary truths can be presented to them.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:40 pmSo how can I find when it is screening in Northern Florida? In Jacksonville and south to Daytona, the “health†insurance industry is a mainstay.
Comment by WaltTheMan
Walt,
There's a link to find out in the last sentence of the initial post, immediately above the Update. Just put in your zipcode. It's not playing anywhere near me, of course.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:41 pmZooey, are you a LIHOP?
Comment by Mr. President
I don’t know. Why don’t you tell me what it is?
Comment by Zooey
I imagine it has something to do with pancakes, don't you?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:42 pmDear Sgt Higgins, I hope your son gets better.
If your son is on medicare, or can get it, these electric get arounds can be had for free.
http://hoveround.imswebmktg.com/hoveround/unique/82798.php?GTSE=GOOG>KW=mobility%2Bscooter&s_kwcid=mobility%20scooter|762729304
July 1st, 2007 at 9:42 pmZooey, are you a LIHOP?
Comment by Mr. President
I can bet the first word is leftist and the second word Islamic.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:43 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:39 pm
Do you think that "Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, simply by doing nothing to stop it"?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:44 pmI imagine it has something to do with pancakes, don’t you?
Comment by gummitch
I am thinking of maple syrup and butter right now -- on pancakes, of course. :D
July 1st, 2007 at 9:44 pmDo you think that “Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, simply by doing nothing to stop it�
Comment by Mr. President
Yes, I do.
Does that make an Islamo-Stalinist?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:45 pmDo you think that “Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, simply by doing nothing to stop it�
Comment by Mr. President
Dear me, YOU, did YOU not do anything to stop it? Why?
If I kick you in the nads and you say why, I would say stop imagining me kicking you in the nads.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:46 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
So, you think that he knew in advance that all those people would die and he did nothing?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:46 pmIt wasn't just Bush..
July 1st, 2007 at 9:46 pm#232 - Zoey,
July 1st, 2007 at 9:47 pmIve tried that. The basic message was "come back later."
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
So, you think that he knew in advance that all those people would die and he did nothing?
Comment by Mr. President
MsP has googled the Socratic Method.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:51 pmDo you think that “Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, simply by doing nothing to stop it�
Comment by Mr. President
Your off script, It was Clintons fault that George ignored the PDB. Doh.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:51 pmSo, you think that he knew in advance that all those people would die and he did nothing?
Comment by Mr. President
No. But they had information about those guys taking flying lessons, but not interested in learning to land. They cut Richard Clark off at the knees, not wanting to discuss ANYTHING about possible terrorism. They had the damned PDB, which the evil Condi Rice shrugged off as an historical document.
If they had been paying attention, they could have done SOMETHING. Even if it didn't totally prevent the attacks of 9/11. But they consciously chose to do NOTHING.
How could they possibly know how many people would die?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:51 pmIve tried that. The basic message was “come back later.â€
Comment by WaltTheMan
Oops, sorry. It was working before. Maybe google SICKO and Florida?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:53 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:51 pm
Cool.
No. You're not an Islamo-Stalinist.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:56 pmYou scared me there for a minute though...
July 1st, 2007 at 9:57 pmNo, you idiot.
Hitler was a neo-Pagan.
God you Leftists are dumb.
But Jesus still loves you.
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 6:55 pm
No, you idiot.
Hitler ridiculed his fellow Nazis who were neo-pagans, loathing the "occult" and the "supernatural". Hitler saw religion like he saw everything else, being a sociopathic, megalomaniacal, sadistic and utterly revolting man, as a tool with which to exert power over others. He still saw himself as a Christian, but he believed that Jesus was a freedom fighter, waging a war against the tyranny of the Jews in power at the time of Christ's life. He saw Jesus as a warrior, not a peacemaker, a bringer of redemption, nor a sufferer for our sins.
Damn, you trolls are dumb.
But secular humanists still love you, even while they ridicule you.
July 1st, 2007 at 9:57 pmCool.
No. You’re not an Islamo-Stalinist.
Comment by Mr. President
I knew that.
What's a LIHOP?
July 1st, 2007 at 9:59 pmComment by Moderation — July 1, 2007 @ 9:57 pm
No you idiot.
Hitler was, of course, critical of all forms of paganism which were not his own.
God you Lefties are dumb.
But Jesus still loves you.
†
July 1st, 2007 at 9:59 pm#248No. But they had information about those guys taking flying lessons, but not interested in learning to land. They cut Richard Clark off at the knees, not wanting to discuss ANYTHING about possible terrorism. They had the damned PDB, which the evil Condi Rice shrugged off as an historical document.
If they had been paying attention, they could have done SOMETHING. Even if it didn’t totally prevent the attacks of 9/11. But they consciously chose to do NOTHING.
Comment by Zooey
Exactly!!
And why did the English ACT on their information this week and BushCo sat around picking their collective scabby asses? Because they were arrogant, lazy, sloppy and as Katrina showed, didn't give a sh!t about anything or anyone, except getting the BinLaden family out of the US after the no-fly edict to protect their oil interests.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:00 pm"What’s a LIHOP?
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 9:59 pm"
Someone who thinks that Bush knew about 9/11 and "Let It Happen On Purpose."
July 1st, 2007 at 10:01 pmbut he believed that Jesus was a freedom fighter,
that says it all/
July 1st, 2007 at 10:02 pm
HITLER WAS FREE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING HE WISHED TO DO. SAME AS BUSHCO!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Lil bush (mr Prez) See post #252 for your answer on why they did nothing.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:03 pmfreedumb!
=
freedomrings
(?)
July 1st, 2007 at 10:03 pmHITLER THOUGHT THAT?????that Jesus was a freedom fighter>>>>?,
July 1st, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Stupid Repuke trolls!
They just make me want to see SiCKO even more!
All trolls should get their healthca denied the next time they really need it.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:05 pmfreedumb does NOT ring! ONLY IN YOUR EAR!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:05 pmLil bush (mr Prez) See post #252 for your answer on why they did nothing.
Comment by upside00 — July 1, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
I already read it, and there is nothing there that I disagree with, except for:
July 1st, 2007 at 10:06 pm"didn’t give a sh!t about anything or anyone, except getting the BinLaden family out of the US after the no-fly edict to protect their oil interests"
which is just your assumption about what/who Bush did or did not give a shit about.
And why did the English ACT on their information this week and BushCo sat around picking their collective scabby asses? Because they were arrogant, lazy, sloppy and as Katrina showed, didn’t give a sh!t about anything or anyone, except getting the BinLaden family out of the US after the no-fly edict to protect their oil interests.
Comment by upside00
Absolutely. I'm not giving Bush a pass on this. I think his apathy is pathological. The possibility of the attacks of 9/11 didn't fit in with his idea of his presidency -- I think he thought it would be a 4-8 year vacation -- so he wouldn't "hear" of it. Unfortunately for us, regarding 9/11 and Katrina, he surrounded himself with sycophants, puppeteers and yes-men, which compounded the situation.
No one is at the helm of this ship. Not now, and especially not when there's a national emergency. We've been lucky since 9/11.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:06 pmComment by freedumb! — July 1, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
Good Lord!
I think we have an "Insane Troll" here!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:07 pm#
freedomrings
(?)
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 10:03 pm
#
ONLY IN YOUR SCREWED UP HEAD! MR P!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:07 pmChimpy thinks a LIHOP is a pancake house.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:07 pmTom3 -
Most of them, especially mr prez is covered by his mommy's insurance. And they get their Psycho meds covered with no co-pay.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:07 pmComment by upside00 — July 1, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
Actually I don't have insurance.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:08 pmSomeone who thinks that Bush knew about 9/11 and “Let It Happen On Purpose.â€
Comment by Mr. President
Bush "Let It Happen Because He Didn't Give a Shit."
Is that better or worse? That's the question, isn't it?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:09 pmYawn. Whatever!
Marching on the path to bankruptcy....
July 1st, 2007 at 10:10 pmChimpy ignored 50 warnings 9-11 was coming.
Chimpy DID let it happen on purpose.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:11 pmComment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
But did he know what was going to happen?
That is the question that separates the LIHOPs and the MIHOPs from the regular pissed of Americans.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:11 pmmr prez,
We DO know that they got the BinLaden family out and the reason for that can be found in any Board meeting minutes of the Carlyle Club.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,583869,00.html
As to their not caring or incompetent, the end results are the same! And he is YOUR president, not mine!!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:14 pmZoo, we have the same perception on that one!!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:15 pmIt is simply an outrage that the U.S., especially compared to other industrialized countries [it is ranked 37th by the WHO] cannot provide not simply basic but excellent health care for its citizens.
Why?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:17 pmBut did he know what was going to happen?
That is the question that separates the LIHOPs and the MIHOPs from the regular pissed of Americans.
Comment by Mr. President
People around him knew SOMETHING was up, and they tried to tell him. He would not hear it, and no one was willing to make him listen. He knew they were trying to tell him -- hence the "You've covered your asses" remark. He is responsible for letting the attacks of 9/11 happen because he just didn't care.
That is unforgivable.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:17 pmZoo, we have the same perception on that one!!
Comment by upside00
Thanks, upside00. I don't usually talk about it because I don't want to start up the conspiracy theories.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:19 pmComment by upside00 — July 1, 2007 @ 10:14 pm
That wasn't the point.
You said he didn't care about anything "except getting the BinLaden family out of the US after the no-fly edict to protect their oil interests."
There were most certainly other things that he cared about at the time, his own reputation and image for one...
July 1st, 2007 at 10:20 pmIt is simply an outrage that the U.S., especially compared to other industrialized countries [it is ranked 37th by the WHO] cannot provide not simply basic but excellent health care for its citizens.
Why?
Comment by i'm12
Because, you little trout, a healthy populace is a productive populace.
How simple does it have to be to penetrate your skull?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:20 pmWhat does this have to do with Sicko Mr President?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:21 pmOkay Zooey.
You need not say more.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:22 pmHow simple does it have to be to penetrate your skull?
Comment by gummitch
As long as m12 doesn't perceive it costing him a single penny of his well-hoarded money, it might sink in.
I have no hope of it happening, actually.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:23 pmWhat does this have to do with Sicko Mr President?
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
See post #223 and #225
July 1st, 2007 at 10:24 pmThere we important things Chimpy cared about on 9-11.
He HAD to find out how "My Pet Goat" ended!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:25 pmOkay Zooey.
You need not say more.
Comment by Mr. President
Good. I was concerned this was going to turn into an endless debate, and I have my monthly steak and mushrooms & onions calling me.
Later....
July 1st, 2007 at 10:25 pmLater….
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
See ya
July 1st, 2007 at 10:26 pmSo? #223 Sgt Higgins. Isn't comparing one to the other. He states that F911 has nothing to do with sicko.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:27 pmComment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 10:27 pm
I just wanted to see if Zooey, one of the only posters here that I haven't lost all respect for at some point, was a conspiracy theorist.
Now let's drop it before ace shows up.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:29 pmIt is simply an outrage that the U.S., especially compared to other industrialized countries [it is ranked 37th by the WHO] cannot provide not simply basic but excellent health care for its citizens.
Why?
Comment by i’m12
I just returned from Prague and Zurich, and both countries have MUCH better healthcare than we do and they produce and sell their pharmaceuticals for less than we do AND they spend more per dollar income on research. But then they don't have the government protecting the companies and the companies don't have to pay billions in bribes and tribute to their governments, either.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:29 pmPlease do not fraternize with the trolls.
You could get a disease.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:29 pmBecause, you little trout, a healthy populace is a productive populace.
We have the most productive populace in the world...seems like we are doing something right.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:31 pmIt is simply an outrage that the U.S., especially compared to other industrialized countries [it is ranked 37th by the WHO] cannot provide not simply basic but excellent health care for its citizens.
Why?
Comment by m12
Because people can't start with equal ECONOMICS in life.
But you CAN give your FELLOW COUNTRYMEN an equal start with HEALTH.
You DO care about your FELLOW COUNTRYMEN, don't you?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:31 pmDear GWIT SOW, you gotta be kidding if you are even asking m1+2 = 4 if he gives a shit about anything except his bank account. He belongs to the I got mine so go fu(k yourself tribe.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:35 pmI just returned from Prague and Zurich, and both countries have MUCH better healthcare than we do and they produce and sell their pharmaceuticals for less than we do AND they spend more per dollar income on research. But then they don’t have the government protecting the companies and the companies don’t have to pay billions in bribes and tribute to their governments, either.
If you say so. The United States has much larger housing (even for the poorest), more automobiles, more consumption of material goods, and great cable television.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:35 pmGood. I was concerned this was going to turn into an endless debate, and I have my monthly steak and mushrooms & onions calling me.
Later….
Comment by Zooey
Mmmmmm. Tri-tip roast on the grill, Sazerac cocktail(s) for starters, and some Beaujolais currently trashing around in my ab-domen. Life is good.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:36 pmm12 = male, age 12.
Don't tell MAF54 he's here.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:36 pm#292
No, you really can't, without crippling our economy or our military.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:36 pmI just returned from Prague and Zurich, and both countries have MUCH better healthcare than we do and they produce and sell their pharmaceuticals for less than we do AND they spend more per dollar income on research. But then they don’t have the government protecting the companies and the companies don’t have to pay billions in bribes and tribute to their governments, either.
Comment by upside00
Oooooh, lucky you. I want to go to Prague, but I want to go to Prague as it was before all the McDonalds showed up. Still, it's way high on the list.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:37 pm...and great cable television.
Comment by m12 — July 1, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
Not just great... THE BEST!
Let's face it, all other countries want to be like us.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:38 pmMmmm,
July 1st, 2007 at 10:39 pmgummitch,
tri-tip, the Santa Maria gift to the world of BBQ meat. Ever have Harris ranch tri-tip?
Moore’s ‘SiCKO’ passes fact-check test.
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:40 pmBecause, you little trout, a healthy populace is a productive populace.
We have the most productive populace in the world…seems like we are doing something right.
Comment by m12
Production of what? I realize that for someone used to getting all their information from Bill O'Reilly, this mindless talking point might be convincing.
Do you have an objective standard you're applying, or did you simply (my best guess) pull this one out of your butt?
In other words: prove it.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:41 pmOooooh, lucky you. I want to go to Prague, but I want to go to Prague as it was before all the McDonalds showed up. Still, it’s way high on the list.
Did you know that a Big Mac in the Czech Republic costs more than the average hourly wage there? In the US you can buy 3 Big Macs at the minimum wage!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:41 pmTri-tip!
You California Lefties crack me up sometimes!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:42 pmMmmm,
gummitch,
tri-tip, the Santa Maria gift to the world of BBQ meat. Ever have Harris ranch tri-tip?
Comment by RUCerious
Vot is diss? Spill.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:42 pmComment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
You're not from the US are you?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:43 pmLet’s face it, all other countries want to be like us.
Comment by Mr. President
Riight. We see evidence of that every day in places like Iraq, Iran . . .
This sort of mindless, ignorant arrogance is why most countries would like to kick us in the nuts.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:43 pmYeah, they want to be like us, sure.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/22/AR2007012201300.html
Global opinion of U.S. foreign policy has sharply deteriorated in the past two years, according to a BBC poll released on the eve of President Bush's annual State of the Union address.
Nearly three-quarters of those polled in 25 countries disapprove of U.S. policies toward Iraq, and more than two-thirds said the U.S. military presence in the Middle East does more harm than good. Nearly half of those polled in Europe, Africa, Asia, South America and the Middle East said the United States is now playing a mainly negative role in the world.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:44 pm"No, you idiot.
Hitler was a neo-Pagan.
God you Leftists are dumb.
But Jesus still loves you."
Yes, Mr. President "neo-pagans (whatever the he!! that means) often say "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."
Sounds like Pat Robertson, actually.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:44 pmThis sort of mindless, ignorant arrogance is why most countries would like to kick us in the nuts.
Comment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Typical Anti-American Lefty.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:44 pmI imagine I will leave this film feeling much the way I did after seeing F9/11...
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Defrauded?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:44 pm#302
The only reasonable objective measure is the Gross Domestic Product.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp-economy-gdp-nominal
The United States nearly equals the entire European Union, and is about 2.5x as productive as Japan!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:46 pmLet’s face it, all other countries want to be like us.
Comment by Mr. President
Like Iraq? Or Syria, Or Iran, Or China? Maybe Cuba? Venezuela?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:46 pmComment by RUCerious — July 1, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Yeah, because their they're hatin' on the playa.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:46 pmgummich ~ tri tip cut originated in Santa Maria California, according to authoritative experts such as myself.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:46 pmHarris Ranch in Atascadero, near San Luis Obispo provides the best damn tri-tip beef you've ever tasted.
Check this link
http://www.smvalley.com/community/smbbq.html
Did you know that a Big Mac in the Czech Republic costs more than the average hourly wage there? In the US you can buy 3 Big Macs at the minimum wage!
Comment by m12
If I actually wanted to eat a Big Mac, I might give a sh!t.
Did you know that the price of really really good beer in Prague is roughly $1/pint?
No? Why am I not surprised?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:47 pmNotice how "the liburals" are required to be "fact-checked" while claims made by the Bush "administration" and radio hosts are considered "reliable". Got WMD anyone?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:47 pmThe United States nearly equals the entire European Union, and is about 2.5x as productive as Japan!
Comment by m12
YAY outsourcing to India!! YAY!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:47 pmhttp://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/06/27/sicko-debunked-by-nhs-nurse/
July 1st, 2007 at 10:47 pmDefrauded?
Comment by Barbra Streisand — July 1, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Zing!!!!!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 10:48 pmReminds me of going to a McDonalds in France and finding out the big mac is horse meat. The fries were good, but really I try to stay away from fast food places worldwide.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:50 pmComment by JPark — July 1, 2007 @ 10:44 pm
Is that really you, JPark?
Just kiddin' :D
July 1st, 2007 at 10:50 pmWhat is the trade deficit with China m12?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:51 pmThe only reasonable objective measure is the Gross Domestic Product.
http://www.nationmaster.com/ graph/ eco_gdp-economy-gdp-nominal
The United States nearly equals the entire European Union, and is about 2.5x as productive as Japan!
Comment by m12
Poor retarded little troll. Try clicking on the "per capita" link.
Uh, US=#7.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:52 pm#316
You can get that in the US as well, without the 19% VAT, and the soon to be enacted EU beer tax, I might add.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:52 pm@298 Let’s face it, all other countries want to be like us.
Comment by Mr. President
UHHH, no they don't. They are laughing at out president and shuddering at what he has done to the world's stability..
July 1st, 2007 at 10:52 pmIs that Patriotic to outsource jobs m12?
July 1st, 2007 at 10:53 pmUgh, yeah, it is me this time, Mr. President (WBBB).
July 1st, 2007 at 10:53 pmYou can get that in the US as well, without the 19% VAT, and the soon to be enacted EU beer tax, I might add.
Comment by m12
You can buy great beer for $1 a pint? Hahahahaha! That's the funniest moronic comment you've made yet.
Your ignorance is without limit.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:53 pmComment by sickodebunked — July 1, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
Just because SiCKO may be BS, doesn't mean we can't improve.
Just like those of think that 911 was caused by Bush's negligence may be full of BS, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strengthen our security and fight terrorism.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:54 pmhttp://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html
July 1st, 2007 at 10:54 pm#325 m12, you can't have it both ways. You righty schmucks say everybody wants to be like us but you turn around (when told the vast majority of countries and their populations do like us) and say who cares what for'ners say about us.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:55 pmYou can get that in the US as well, without the 19% VAT, and the soon to be enacted EU beer tax, I might add.
Comment by m12
Your Anti-American, admit it. You see $$$ and could care less about America. Yet you act like your some kind of super-patriot.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:55 pm#324
Yeah, the top 6 nations have the significant advantage of very small populations. Luxembourg has significant influence on European banking thanks to their low tax policy.
Put Delaware on that list and it is at the top.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:55 pmHey, what's up?
I had a comment posted here (#79) that linked to an article about how MTV's Kurt Loder bashed Sicko. It also pointed out the Loder referenced another film to rebut Sicko that was made by a group affiliated with ultra-right wing think tanks. Now my comment is gone.
What happened?
Here's the link to the article. It's really important that people know just how integrated the right wing noise machine is into our culture. It has MTV shilling for it:
Kurt Loder: MTV’s Hatchet Man On Sicko
July 1st, 2007 at 10:55 pmHey, sickodebunked, would you like to let us know who funds that crappy little site? I doubt it.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:56 pmUHHH, no they don’t. They are laughing at out president and shuddering at what he has done to the world’s stability..
Comment by upside00 — July 1, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
Even if that were true, it is only because we are in the spotlight, we are the rock-stars of the world.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:56 pmHehe, Kurt Loder, now THAT is a credible source. Next up: Ryan Seacrest on the Darfur tragedy.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:58 pmhttp://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/06/25/free-health-care-sure-is-expensive/
July 1st, 2007 at 10:58 pm# 297 but I want to go to Prague as it was before all the McDonalds showed up. Still, it’s way high on the list.
Comment by gummitch
Actually not many McDonalds there but a few KFC's and LOTS of TAGGING! Maybe our biggest cultural export to Eastern Europe.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:59 pmIf by rock star, you mean GWAR.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:59 pmm12 means cheap watered down beer like Coors lite.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:59 pmbe full of BS, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strengthen our security and fight terrorism.
Comment by Mr. President
For the last time, this Iracle Debacle hasn't increased our security, nor has it helped our economy, As Scowcroft (A Republican) stated it undermines the war on terror. Unfortunately we have people. like m12, who don't care about the war on terror but how much monopoly money they can hoard. m12 does not, nor canno protect America, nor can Bush or Clinton. Its the middle and lower class ($$) man that protects our borders and serves in the military. My Hat is off to these folks. YOU and m12 however should move to Iraq.
July 1st, 2007 at 10:59 pmHey, sickodebunked, would you like to let us know who funds that crappy little site? I doubt it.
Comment by JPark
http://www.healthcarebs.com/about/
July 1st, 2007 at 11:00 pmKurt Pantload
July 1st, 2007 at 11:00 pmEven if that were true, it is only because we are in the spotlight, we are the rock-stars of the world.
Comment by Mr. President
Your a Paris Hilton clone.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:00 pmYour Anti-American, admit it. You see $$$ and could care less about America. Yet you act like your some kind of super-patriot.
Comment by Solipsist
Everclear will kill brain cells, and so will sniffing paint. I'd suggest you back off a bit if you want to live more than six months.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:01 pmYour Anti-American, admit it. You see $$$ and could care less about America. Yet you act like your some kind of super-patriot.
On the contrary. I want to preserve the 2 factors that have made the United States great...namely, the US economy and the US military.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:02 pmIf by rock star, you mean GWAR.
Comment by JPark — July 1, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Sure, they are from my neck of the woods (Richmond, VA) so I gotta support GWAR!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:02 pmEverclear will kill brain cells, and so will sniffing paint. I’d suggest you back off a bit if you want to live more than six months.
Comment by gummitch
WTF? I was talking to m12 and Mr P. Not Gummitch.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:03 pmYour a Paris Hilton clone.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:00 pm
Paris Hilton is no rock-star, and I know that.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:03 pmm12 > Bush economy sucks, but we know you think differently.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:04 pmOn the contrary. I want to preserve the 2 factors that have made the United States great…namely, the US economy and the US military.
Comment by m12
By outsourcing jobs and privatizing the military?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:04 pmYou righty schmucks say everybody wants to be like us but you turn around (when told the vast majority of countries and their populations do like us) and say who cares what for’ners say about us.
They do want to be like us. When Brazil decides to steal US patents, owned by US pharmaceuticals and developed by US scientists, the only conclusion I can make is that they want something we have.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:05 pmComment by gummitch
WTF? I was talking to m12 and Mr P. Not Gummitch.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
The problem with both of you is that you care too much who it is that you are arguing against, and not so much what you are arguing for.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:05 pmHey sickodebunked, do you wonder why there is nothing saying he works for the fricking Cato Institute?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pm#352
You realize the economy has expanded by $3.5 trillion in 6 years? It took Clinton a full 8 to reach that figure.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pmRe: #335:
OK, now my earlier comment will appear and disappear everytime I refresh the page. I hope my health insurance is paid up because I might be going crazy.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pmEven if that were true, it is only because we are in the spotlight, we are the rock-stars of the world.
Comment by Mr. President
You've been watching too much mtv and not reading enough news. The Europeans are close to calling war crimes trials because of some of it's citizens rendered by the cia.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pmFact.
Itally has warrants out for 20 operatives for a kidnapping and torture of one of it's citizens last I read.
Paris Hilton is no rock-star, and I know that.
Comment by Mr. President
Yet this is what m12, you, Bush, Clinton, and many others will give birth too.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pm#353
No, by lowering taxes and increasing military budgets to Kennedy levels.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:07 pmComment by m12 — July 1, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
They also steal our culture as well.
Music, TV programming, Clothing style, Movies
The US has the best in the world, by far!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:07 pmYou realize the economy has expanded by $3.5 trillion in 6 years? It took Clinton a full 8 to reach that figure.
Comment by m12
Its just paper m12. Damnit man. Think.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:08 pmClinton, and many others will give birth too.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
Chelsea!!!
I don't think Chelsea is a Paris Hilton!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:08 pmThe US has the best in the world, by far!
Comment by Mr. President
Yep, that's why we're so freakin' popular around the world these days.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:08 pmMusic, TV programming, Clothing style, Movies
The US has the best in the world, by far!
Comment by Mr. President
Such is why your a liberal on the political compass test.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:09 pmOh, I get it m12, Brazil wants to be like the US. That is why they voted for a far left wing government. You think so logically.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:09 pmYou realize the economy has expanded by $3.5 trillion in 6 years? It took Clinton a full 8 to reach that figure.
Comment by m12
How much has the deficit increased?
(More under Herr Brusch than ALL other presidents COMBINED...)
July 1st, 2007 at 11:09 pmThe problem with both of you is that you care too much who it is that you are arguing against, and not so much what you are arguing for.
Comment by Mr. President — July 1, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
Best not to throw stones from that glass house, Mr P.
Just sayin'
July 1st, 2007 at 11:10 pmI don’t think Chelsea is a Paris Hilton!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Her first job, business consulting, right out of college paid some 500k a year. More than you or m12. But shes a liberal you say. Heh.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:10 pmSuch is why your a liberal on the political compass test.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
So, you're just here trying to rattle things up a bit!
I see.
I should've known.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:11 pmAnd who would go to Prague and eat a f*cking Big Mac?
I won't eat a Big Mac HERE.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:11 pmThe problem with both of you is that you care too much who it is that you are arguing against, and not so much what you are arguing for.
Comment by Mr. President
You have been running around here calling people you don't know Islamo-Stalinists and you are now reversing course?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:12 pmHer first job, business consulting, right out of college paid some 500k a year. More than you or m12. But shes a liberal you say. Heh.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
I didn't say that.
But anyway, the fact that she had a job in the first place, other than acting like a spoiled brat on TV, shows that she is no Paris!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:12 pmOh, I get it m12, Brazil wants to be like the US. That is why they voted for a far left wing government. You think so logically.
They might not like our politics, but they sure do desire US technology, innovation, and wealth.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:13 pmI see. I should’ve known. Comment by Mr. President
I am YOU. Remember.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:13 pmI won’t eat a Big Mac HERE.
Comment by Zooey
And your arteries thank you for it...
July 1st, 2007 at 11:13 pmYou have been running around here calling people you don’t know Islamo-Stalinists and you are now reversing course?
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
Hell NO!
I only call them Islamo-Stalinists if they make Islamo-Stalinist comments.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:13 pm"No, by lowering taxes and increasing military budgets to Kennedy levels"
So, m12, after lowering taxes and increasing spending exponentially, are we going to run increasingly in the red or will that debt somehow be magically paid? Maybe we can get David Copperfield to make it disappear (or the Bushie accountants). You clearly have no economic background.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:13 pm#368
The deficit has increased by far less than the overall size of the economy. You realize our debt situation is far less dire than Japan and France?
Our economy, unlike theirs, is not shackled by taxes. Well, at least not as much.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:15 pmBut anyway, the fact that she had a job in the first place, other than acting like a spoiled brat on TV, shows that she is no Paris!
Comment by Mr. President
Well thank you for supporting democrats instead of a ditzy billionaire heiress. Lmao.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:15 pm"Music, TV programming, Clothing style, Movies
The US has the best in the world, by far!"
Europe and Australia have much better commercials. If the US weren't so uptight we might be entertained once in a while during the break!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:15 pm#356 You realize the economy has expanded by $3.5 trillion in 6 years? It took Clinton a full 8 to reach that figure.
Comment by m12
You are forgetting a few basic facts: Take out the amount we spend on the illegal occupation and corrupt military contracts AND the fact that we have the highest national debt (How does it feel to have your and your grandkids' ass owned by China?) in wold history.
Guess Rover never provided those additional facts, huh??
July 1st, 2007 at 11:15 pmYou realize our debt situation is far less dire than Japan and France? -m12
Far LESS dire? Maybe we should outsource more to say, China?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:16 pmSo, m12, after lowering taxes and increasing spending exponentially, are we going to run increasingly in the red or will that debt somehow be magically paid? Maybe we can get David Copperfield to make it disappear (or the Bushie accountants). You clearly have no economic background.
It's not necessary to do anything of the sort. All the new Congress has to do is dissolve Medicaid and a few cabinet departments.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:16 pmm12, are you really that stupid? That isn't an insult. I am genuinely perplexed. Are you saying we DON'T have a problem with China owning us?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:16 pmEurope and Australia have much better commercials. If the US weren’t so uptight we might be entertained once in a while during the break!
Comment by JPark — July 1, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
OK, so we don't get to see boobies on public TV, you got me there.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:17 pmOur economy, unlike theirs, is not shackled by taxes. Well, at least not as much.
Comment by m12
Hands m12 a shotgun - aim for toes.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:17 pmYou clearly have no economic background.
Comment by JPark
Have to agree w/ you on that one, J Park. Our economy is on shaky ground. i personally think one of the stupidest, nastiest things Brusch has doen to this country is sell so much debt to the Chinese. That and run up such a huge deficit.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:17 pmOh, I see m12, so you want to see your grandmother die like a dog with no medical care. I am not surprised.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:17 pmYou are forgetting a few basic facts: Take out the amount we spend on the illegal occupation and corrupt military contracts AND the fact that we have the highest national debt (How does it feel to have your and your grandkids’ ass owned by China?) in wold history.
What rational basis is there to take out the money spent on the war and military contracts? That money pays for services, goods, and labor produced by this nation.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:17 pmOK, so we don’t get to see boobies on public TV, you got me there.
Comment by Mr. President
Look down.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:18 pmWell thank you for supporting democrats instead of a ditzy billionaire heiress. Lmao.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
Don't thank me too soon.
I didn't say that I supported either, because, in fact, I do not.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:18 pmBy the way, m12, discounting your evil, callous disregard for your fellow human being you might want to check your numbers (and you might want to include the Iraq occupation in your budget, something the Bush administration doesn't do because it would make them look bad). Emergency funding, my a$$.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pmThat money pays for services, goods, and labor produced by this nation. Comment by m12
Where, in Iraq?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pmLook down.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
What is there something on my shirt?
I'm not falling for that old trick!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pmm12, are you really that stupid? That isn’t an insult. I am genuinely perplexed. Are you saying we DON’T have a problem with China owning us?
China only owns some $262b in US securities.
http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/060404b/
Our nation has $65-70t in total wealth...they don't come close to owning even California.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pm#356 You realize the economy has expanded by $3.5 trillion in 6 years?
We have a joke in this house.. We can't be broke.. we still have checks!!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pmThe people running this country have a serious credit card mentality with absolutely no thought to who is actually going to have to pay the bill.
"What rational basis is there to take out the money spent on the war and military contracts? That money pays for services, goods, and labor produced by this nation"
Wow, THAT was disingenous. That clearly wasn't the point and you know it, troll.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:20 pmOur nation has $65-70t in total wealth…they don’t come close to owning even California.
Comment by m12 — July 1, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
Shit, let's rent them California!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:20 pmI didn’t say that I supported either, because, in fact, I do not.
Comment by Mr. President
You seem to support nothing and blame everything and everyone else.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:20 pmThey might not like our politics, but they sure do desire US technology, innovation, and wealth.
Comment by m12
Name one computer company that does not have it's parts ot whole units manufacturered in China.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:20 pmI work in the field. Lets see if you know what the hell you are talking about.........
i'm12, why have you not responded? I am waiting . . .
Production per capita?
Knock, knock.
Helllllllllllllllloooo?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:21 pmm12, total wealth? Are you joking? Total wealth is an accounting trick. They could call in our markers and seriously damage our already weak economy.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:21 pmBy the way, m12, discounting your evil, callous disregard for your fellow human being you might want to check your numbers (and you might want to include the Iraq occupation in your budget, something the Bush administration doesn’t do because it would make them look bad). Emergency funding, my a$$.
It is included. The national debt/deficit figures include off budget expenses such as the war.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:21 pmYou seem to support nothing and blame everything and everyone else.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
Well as you should know...
July 1st, 2007 at 11:21 pm... things are not always as they seem.
Hell, name one computer company that doesn't outsource at least part of it's tech support for that matter....
July 1st, 2007 at 11:22 pmWhat is there something on my shirt?
I’m not falling for that old trick!
Comment by Mr. President
Didn't you know we have Sattelites to see thru your roof?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:22 pmWow, THAT was disingenous. That clearly wasn’t the point and you know it, troll.
Comment by JPark
It's also dead-end money, so to speak. Once a bomb blows up, you don't get anymore use out of it. No complicated depreciation sched on THAT fixed asset...
July 1st, 2007 at 11:22 pmAnd BTW Mr President. You should really vaccum that carpet and dust more often.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:22 pmm12, total wealth? Are you joking? Total wealth is an accounting trick. They could call in our markers and seriously damage our already weak economy.
How is wealth (or assets, if you prefer) an accounting trick? What is your house worth? Is your house an accounting trick?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:23 pmKnock, knock.
Helllllllllllllllloooo?
Comment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 11:21 pm
You didn't ask him a question about that, gumby.
Typical Smug Lefty.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:23 pmWell as you should know…
… things are not always as they seem.
Comment by Mr. President
So much for your Islamo-Stalinist arguments.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:23 pm"It is included. The national debt/deficit figures include off budget expenses such as the war."
Another disingenuous post. You know it is not sold to the public that way and you know why but you are such a Bushite you will not admit it.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:24 pmIt is included. The national debt/deficit figures include off budget expenses such as the war.
Comment by m12
I'm not sure about that. i've read repeatedly the last couple of years that the Feds DO nOT include the cost of Iraq in the budget. that's why they keep voting on supplemental spending bills.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:24 pmHow is wealth (or assets, if you prefer) an accounting trick? What is your house worth? Is your house an accounting trick?
Comment by m12
It's little dots. Some point north and some point south. A north is a | and a south is a O.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:25 pmHow is wealth (or assets, if you prefer) an accounting trick? What is your house worth? Is your house an accounting trick?
Comment by m12
Go read a good book on Enron if you don't think you can do accounting tricks w/ "wealth" and "assets".
July 1st, 2007 at 11:25 pmSo much for your Islamo-Stalinist arguments.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:23 pm
What about them... they are not always what they seem, they are not exempt, what is your point?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:26 pmI’m not sure about that. i’ve read repeatedly the last couple of years that the Feds DO nOT include the cost of Iraq in the budget. that’s why they keep voting on supplemental spending bills.
They don't. But off budget expenses can only be financed from 2 places: revenue from the budget, or bonds.
The bonds add to the total annual defecit the government incurs.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:26 pmIt is included. The national debt/deficit figures include off budget expenses such as the war.
Comment by m12
This war that was supposed to pay for itself? The war has been fought on supplementals and are not in the budget.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:26 pmConfucious say thanks for giving China the money to buy influence around the world, especially in oil rich nations like Iran, Venezuela and Sudan.
Thanks for giving us the money to increase our military too, while you foolishly grind yours down in Iraq.
-Confucious
July 1st, 2007 at 11:26 pmWith his logic, I can see that i'm12 doesn't have his own checking account and must use his daddy's credit cards to buy his BushCo Economic books.
Must be nice to not live in the real world!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:27 pmIt’s also dead-end money, so to speak. Once a bomb blows up, you don’t get anymore use out of it. No complicated depreciation sched on THAT fixed asset…
Yeah, and? Once a piece of gum is chewed, you don't get any use from it either. But it still adds to production.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:27 pmWhat about them… they are not always what they seem
Comment by Mr. President
That your Islamo-Stalin argument is not what it seems? Ergo your argument is moot.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:28 pm#417
The boogeyman again? Enron is one corporation out of millions in this nation.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:28 pm"It’s also dead-end money, so to speak. Once a bomb blows up, you don’t get anymore use out of it. No complicated depreciation sched on THAT fixed asset…"
Sort of, it isn't exactly a renewable good but it does circulate the currency...sort of. The gov't gives the money to a bloated defense company and a little of that "trickles down" to underpaid factory workers. They in turn buy food (about the only thing they CAN afford in this crappy economy)...and so on but with the Republican policies a whole lot of currency is being held by the very rich, who are paying a lower percentage of taxes than the average "middle-class" family. And the corporations they own and work for have a good chance of paying no taxes. But Republicans want us to lower taxes for these people.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:29 pmErgo your argument is moot.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Not always, and by the same logic, the comments refered to are moot as well.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:30 pmBut it still adds to production. Comment by m12
But production is based on humans and consumption is based on humans. You are in efect self strangling.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:31 pmNot always, and by the same logic, the comments refered to are moot as well.
Comment by Mr. President
July 1st, 2007 at 11:31 pmThank you for cancelling out your argument =)
Michael Moore documents the Insurance industry denying Americans life saving care in order to maximize profits. Americans have died as a result.
This is evil.
I highly recommend seeing Sicko.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:32 pmNot always, and by the same logic, the comments refered to are moot as well. Comment by Mr. President
Now, we are all in this boat together Mr P. it's time to pick up an oar and stop this divisive BS. Can we agree on that?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:33 pmComment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
They are all my arguments, remember?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:33 pmSort of, it isn’t exactly a renewable good but it does circulate the currency…sort of. The gov’t gives the money to a bloated defense company and a little of that “trickles down†to underpaid factory workers. They in turn buy food (about the only thing they CAN afford in this crappy economy)…and so on but with the Republican policies a whole lot of currency is being held by the very rich, who are paying a lower percentage of taxes than the average “middle-class†family. And the corporations they own and work for have a good chance of paying no taxes. But Republicans want us to lower taxes for these people.
Why wouldn't we want to lower taxes on these people? Do you want investments to go overseas? Do you want to increase our $300b tax gap, or the $200b Americans spend to comply with our ridiculous tax code?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pmThe bonds add to the total annual defecit the government incurs.
Comment by m12
I'm not sure about that either. I suspect the only part of that debt that gets added to the deficit is the interest paid each yr. You seem to have a flimsy grasp of accounting.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pmI see m12 is making his quota of posts tonight for Karl Rove. He might get a bonus > lol.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pmYeah, and? Once a piece of gum is chewed, you don’t get any use from it either. But it still adds to production.
Comment by m12
Hey, pinhead. Answer the question.
Per capita production. Please explain how 7 turned into 1. Otherwise, stfu.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pm"How is wealth (or assets, if you prefer) an accounting trick? What is your house worth? Is your house an accounting trick?"
Your example is exactly how I know you don't understand. My house is a tangible asset with an actual market value. Then again, I am not rich. I don't have millions in offshore tax shelters and I didn't move my factories to Mexico, China and India. All of those assets are included in total wealth despite having absolutely no benefit to the US exept for the very wealthy. There is a reason for the growing class gap.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pmCan we agree on that?
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:33 pm
Can I disagree with myself?
I will have to figure that out some other time.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:35 pmCan't any of you see the reverse faulty logic of Marxist Capitalism?
Men are not machines. Bottom line profits strangle the very entity that creates profits. If men do not make enough to buy a product then their is no need for a product. YOU must REGULATE YOUR OWN GREED!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:35 pmYOU must REGULATE YOUR OWN GREED FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!!
DAYUMMMM
July 1st, 2007 at 11:36 pmHey, pinhead. Answer the question.
Comment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
You never asked him a question, gumby!
You just made a Lefty snide remark.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:36 pmBesides, it is labor that bears the brunt of the corporate income tax! Over 70% of it, in fact. Read this cbo paper.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/75xx/doc7503/2006-09.pdf
Why do the Democrats in congress push such poor policy?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:37 pmCan I disagree with myself? I will have to figure that out some other time. Comment by Mr. President
You have been doing it all night long, why stop now.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:37 pmWhy wouldn’t we want to lower taxes on these people? Do you want investments to go overseas?
Comment by m12
Go overseas? WTF are you talking about?
Do you mean like out-sourcing tech jobs to India, or manufacturing to Mexico? Do selling debts overseas? Or having corps like Halliburton move to Dubai? Please, enlighten us.
Why would we not tax corporations?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:38 pmYour example is exactly how I know you don’t understand. My house is a tangible asset with an actual market value. Then again, I am not rich. I don’t have millions in offshore tax shelters and I didn’t move my factories to Mexico, China and India. All of those assets are included in total wealth despite having absolutely no benefit to the US exept for the very wealthy. There is a reason for the growing class gap.
So the very wealthy do not count as Americans?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:38 pmThis doesn't make sense. M12, who heretofore knew about as much of world affairs as a high school junior, suddenly knows and understands global economics, foreign country's dollar holdings v. export/import ratios and exchange rates, the impact of the federal reserve on interest rates and how that influences China's econonomic choices?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:39 pmI’m not sure about that either. I suspect the only part of that debt that gets added to the deficit is the interest paid each yr. You seem to have a flimsy grasp of accounting.
You have it backwards. The annual deficit (or surplus) is added (or subtracted) from the cumulative debt.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:39 pmM12, what the hell qualifies you as an expert on federal fiscal policies and their impact?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:40 pmSo the very wealthy do not count as Americans?
Comment by m12
meaningless circular logic baiting. Just gumming the argument to death, when there is no argument left.
pretty sad when you are reduced to that.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:41 pmm12, though they are paying very little in taxes already, I am not sure what you are talking about. The greediest of the greedy (which is most corporations) are outsourcing all of the jobs anyway because they don't want to pay a living wage, they don't want to pay benefits and they are not a big fan of labor laws.
They should be regulated the he!! out of and they should be barred from stealing from the American people and sending the money to countries we don't even get along with. Corporations that relocate to Dubai are the real traitors to the US.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:41 pmDo you mean like out-sourcing tech jobs to India, or manufacturing to Mexico? Do selling debts overseas? Or having corps like Halliburton move to Dubai? Please, enlighten us.
All 3 of them, in fact. What rational basis is there to tax corporations, other than trying to force them overseas to dodge our tax code, cutting American labor in the process?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:41 pmM12, what the hell qualifies you as an expert on federal fiscal policies and their impact?
I have an economics degree, but I don't claim to be an expert. But at least I'm not a fool, like some of the rest of you.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:43 pmSame as Fahrenheit 911. All fact. Can't refute it? Just call him a liar anyway. Dicksh*ts.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:44 pmThe same rational basis for taxing income.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:44 pmMoore exposed the Health Insurance industry for what it is.
Comments by m12, etc, expose them for what THEY are:
People who DON'T care about their fellow countrymen,
just like MURDERER Bush the TRAITOR coxucker PUNK Saudi OIL WHOREBAG ISLAMOTerrorist...
Funny how these lowlifes want OTHERS to DIE for the LIES of Bush and his OIL BUDDIES
yet want to DENY these SOLDIERS and other FELLOW COUNTRYMEN the basic HEALTH CARE that we ALL deserve...
Bush and Cheney and Tony Snow, etc. are going to BURN IN HELL FOR THEIR WAR CRIMES and the way they have STOLEN FROM and LIED TO and
KILLED their fellow man.
I will defacate on Bush and Cheney's grave.
They are MURDERERS and TRAITORS to the USA who need to HANG.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:44 pmThey should be regulated the he!! out of and they should be barred from stealing from the American people and sending the money to countries we don’t even get along with. Corporations that relocate to Dubai are the real traitors to the US.
So you are going to attempt to 'regulate' the he!! out of them (whatever than means...), giving them incentive to relocate, and then whine when they relocate. Brilliant!
How do you plan to enforce whatever you are trying to do?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:45 pmAll 3 of them, in fact. What rational basis is there to tax corporations, other than trying to force them overseas to dodge our tax code, cutting American labor in the process?
Comment by m12 — July 1, 2007
Import tarifs. If they chose to stay, which they will, they have to pay fair tax structures like everyone else for use of services and infrastructure. If they chose to relocate, fine. But they will pay hightened import tarifs when they want access to American markets.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:45 pm#454
Precisely. There is no rational basis for taxing income.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:46 pm"The boogeyman again? Enron is one corporation out of millions in this nation."
And they call liberals naive. EVERY corporation is cooking the books in one way or another. If they are not screwing their customers or workers, they are screwing their vendors or contractors. I work in the manufacturing sector as an accountant and I know companies are always looking to maximize profits and are always pushing the boundaries. Not all of them are doing things illegally but the vast majority have at least a few policies that are highly unethical.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:46 pmI have an economics degree, but I don’t claim to be an expert.
Comment by mightb12 — July 1, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
You have an economics degree but don't claim to be an expert?
:|
Oh right.
Messiah U.
Learned everything in cubits, huh?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:46 pm"I have an economics degree, but I don’t claim to be an expert. But at least I’m not a fool, like some of the rest of you."
If you do you learned next to nothing at your university.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:46 pmYou never asked him a question, gumby!
You just made a Lefty snide remark.
Comment by Mr. President
If you were as smart as a box of rocks you'd have been able to keep up.
Your partner in idiocy claimed that the US was the most productive country and provided a link. The very same link proved that the per capita production level was not as claimed.
And he continues to avoid addressing the data, which is typical of trolls the world over.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:47 pmLook, I understand that its necessary to create jobs for our children, And So I agree with Capitalism in this sense, but if we don't as Americans regulate ourselves we will be the cause of the decline of Democracy. Terrorism or not. Outsourcing jobs can only create more welfare recipients.
We, it seems to me, have lost our virtue and replaced it with avarice.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:47 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — July 1, 2007 @ 11:46 pm
FART&PEE THE QUEER is here, so have no fear!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:48 pm"So you are going to attempt to ‘regulate’ the he!! out of them (whatever than means…), giving them incentive to relocate, and then whine when they relocate. Brilliant"
Umm, penalize them heavily for relocating and screwing the US. Give them a huge disincentive to relocate. I think I already mentioned that.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:48 pmPrecisely. There is no rational basis for taxing income.
Comment by m12
Hey d!psh!t. Why do you continue to avoid correcting your claim?
Do you think that no one has noticed the fact that your claim has been refuted by your own stats?
Typical.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:49 pmSo, are you talking over your head?
What is the primary economic concern of China, vis a vis the exchange rate, as compared to China's currency?
What impact does this have on China's exports to the U.S.?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:49 pmComment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Yes, gumbo, but then you started to harrass him and demand he answer a question that you had not asked!!!
July 1st, 2007 at 11:49 pmYou are being pretty petty today, Mr. President. Did a liberal pee in your Cheerios this morning? Hey, just take it as a hint to recycle.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:50 pmI have an economics degree, but I don’t claim to be an expert.
Comment by mightb12
Economics is not proven, time and space are not proven, evolutin or creation are not proven.
Numbers when applied to mankind simply do not work.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:50 pmOutsourcing jobs can only create more welfare recipients.
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
I agree. As does the hiring of illegals for labor.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:50 pmYou righties wave the flag until it comes to big business.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:50 pmYes, gumbo, but then you started to harrass him and demand he answer a question that you had not asked!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Uh oh. Have I hurted someone's iddle feelings?
I didn't harrass him, stupid, I confronted him on facts he'd presented.
And, just like you, he tries to avoid responding by changing the subject.
You're weak, very very weak.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:51 pmImport tarifs. If they chose to stay, which they will, they have to pay fair tax structures like everyone else for use of services and infrastructure. If they chose to relocate, fine. But they will pay hightened import tarifs when they want access to American markets.
Import tariffs, which will raise the price of whatever good is being discussed, providing a government subsidy towards the remaining domestic manufacturers, and harming consumers with higher prices. Good job!
I'm sure people would love that. Those "Made in China" products on store shelves? You think the middle class is going to be happy paying vastly increased prices on them?
On top of that, you'll cause further job loss. Just take this Life Savers plant, which hiked across the northern border because of the US sugar tariff.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0320-02.htm
July 1st, 2007 at 11:51 pmFART&PEE THE QUEER is here, so have no fear!
Comment by Mr. President
Just stop that OK? it serves no purpose when our lifeboat is sinking.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:51 pmYou are being pretty petty today, Mr. President. Did a liberal pee in your Cheerios this morning? Hey, just take it as a hint to recycle.
Comment by JPark — July 1, 2007 @ 11:50 pm
What?
The Bartlebee thing?
That's an inside joke.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:51 pmJustify your statement. How is there no rational basis for taxing income?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:52 pmUmm, penalize them heavily for relocating and screwing the US. Give them a huge disincentive to relocate. I think I already mentioned that.
How?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:52 pmYou righties wave the flag until it comes to big business.
Comment by JPark
well, big business...
July 1st, 2007 at 11:53 pmcivil liberties...
the suffering of their neighbors...
gay rights.....
small business...
I’m sure people would love that. Those “Made in China†products on store shelves? -m12
If the working classes wages can't keep up with inflation of course they will be Chinese products. And what does that accomplish? To strengthen communism? WTF?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:54 pmGuys. This guy is like 12.
He still finds fart jokes funny, and he repeats himself over and over because he's too stupid to come up with any new fart jokes.
Of course, he does seem to wet himself whenever I come into the room.
Must have him frightened.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:55 pmYou’re weak, very very weak.
Comment by gummitch — July 1, 2007 @ 11:51 pm
You made a comment, but you never asked a question.
He is debating someone else right now so your accusation of him evading your remark is unfounded.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:55 pmWhich doesn't take much.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:55 pmImport tariffs, which will raise the price of whatever good is being discussed...Comment by m12
BINGO!!!!! THAT'S THE ONE I WANTED!!!!
it's not about Big Business, or free trade or American values or any of that crap....
It's about your wallet. Once again.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:56 pmI agree. As does the hiring of illegals for labor.
Comment by Mr. President
I agree. But why do companies hire illegals? Profits? So we can say that avarice is the cause of illegal immigration?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:56 pmHe is debating someone else right now so your accusation of him evading your remark is unfounded.
Comment by Mr. President
Maybe you could just stay out of it, huh? It's very distracting! I'd like the answer as well. You're not even contributing, you're just playing hall monitor.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:58 pmI am sorry, but I think Karl Marx was an idiot
July 1st, 2007 at 11:58 pm#477
You can start with this:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_basics_taxorigins
The income tax sucks about $250 billion to comply with its thousands of pages of provisions, and another $250 billion in the tax gap.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=137246,00.html
Max Baucus could not fully comply with our tax laws. And he is the Senate Finance Chairman writing them!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117868085130696915.html?mod=politics_primary_hs
I'll ask you the opposite, though. Why would you want to tax income as if income is a bad thing?
July 1st, 2007 at 11:58 pmSo we can say that avarice is the cause of illegal immigration?
Comment by Solipsist — July 1, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Sure, both on the part of American employers and illegal employees.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:59 pmMaybe you could just stay out of it, huh? It’s very distracting! I’d like the answer as well. You’re not even contributing, you’re just playing hall monitor.
Comment by Zooey — July 1, 2007 @ 11:58 pm
The answer to what?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amGummy didn't ask a question.
it’s not about Big Business, or free trade or American values or any of that crap….
It’s about your wallet. Once again.
My wallet? Not really. All Americans are harmed when they have to pay higher prices. The primary group that benefits from tariffs are domestic manufacturers.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amIt’s about your wallet. Once again.
Comment by willyloman — July 1, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
m12 is a stone cold one trick pony. No surprises -- ever.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amWhat rational basis is there to tax corporations?
Comment by m12
Well seeing as they expect to have the same rights as human beings and use the services of the government (courts, military, highways, etc, etc...) why the F... shouldn't they pay their share?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amI agree. But why do companies hire illegals? Profits? So we can say that avarice is the cause of illegal immigration?
Comment by Solipsist
Avarice sent our companies to Mexico to get labor for .65 cents per hour...
Avarice determined that it would be cheaper to reduce the wage scale here than to relocate larger plants...
So, Avarice pays to keep those borders open via campaign donations.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amHe's a rube Zooey.
The product of inbreeding he's had a troubled life, mostly due to uncomfortable family gatherings.
For example imagine how difficult it is to explain to guests that your dad is also your uncle.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 amAhh, a regressive tax lover. How very Christian of you. I have to get up in the morning. Good night all.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:01 amHe is debating someone else right now so your accusation of him evading your remark is unfounded.
Comment by Mr. President
It's very sweet that you're protecting i'm_12 from the bad liberals. However, this is just more evidence that you cannot follow along.
i'm_12: what's the point of health coverage?
me: a healthy population is a productive population
i'm_12: US is the most productive population .... here's proof
me: your "proof" says that six other countries are more productive
i'm_12: hey, look over here!
MsP: stop picking on i'm_12 because you didn't phrase it as a question..
Are you Alex Tribek or just a complete fool?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:01 amThe answer to what?
Gummy didn’t ask a question.
Comment by Mr. President
I'm not doing this with you, Mr P. Just chill, ok?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:01 amSure, both on the part of American employers and illegal employees.
Comment by Mr. President
Okay. Then I as an American, born in America am at no fault? And I am not in any way an Islamo-Stalinist? Do you agree? Yet the blame for the current situation is put upon my shoulders?
I am very saddened at my American compatriots, I must admit.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:02 amI am sorry, but I think Karl Marx was an idiot
Comment by Solipsist
Good in theory, bad in practice.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:02 amMy wallet? Not really. All Americans are harmed when they have to pay higher prices. The primary group that benefits from tariffs are domestic manufacturers.
Comment by m12
remember the '70's and early '80's? This nation took pride in "looking for the union label". it meant we were looking out for our fellow American, even if it meant a little more to pay.
Remember the "Made in USA" signs in Wal-mart?
Seen those lately?
It still means something to some of us Americans.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 amvia the blog roundup at C&L:
Why Michael Moore was right
[...]
Let's just extend Medicare to *everybody*, allow health care insurers to remain as "Medi-gap" providers if they so desire, and otherwise get their venal butts out of our health care.
Medicare. If it's good enough for the prunes, it's good enough for the rest of us. Or do you say we're giving second-rate care to our old people?
http://badtux.net/2007/06/why-michael-moore-was-right.html
that's all for me... g'nite all...
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 amAnd if we hadn’t spent all the money we don’t really have in Iraq (unprecedented national debt), we could have free health care for All - today - right now - this moment! As the saying goes: “throwing good money after bad only results in more bad!†This, we are seeing right now with our priority being death & destruction instead of health and providing for our own. We’ve taken our eye off the ball and this country will tank because of that. Surely, administrations have periodically taken their eye off the ball here and there but never have we had 6 long years of our officials playing ball on someone else’s court! They’ve been absent from the real job of caring for american citizens, that’s clear.
Thomas, Editor
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:04 amGary Carvolth Voice of the Common Man
http://www.garycarvolth.com
I am very saddened at my American compatriots, I must admit.
Comment by Solipsist — July 2, 2007 @ 12:02 am
You're not at fault if you do not support illegals.
This has nothing to do with Islamo-Stalinism by the way.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:05 amWell seeing as they expect to have the same rights as human beings and use the services of the government (courts, military, highways, etc, etc…) why the F… shouldn’t they pay their share?
They don't "pay their fair share" even with an income tax. You pay it.
Read the CBO paper in post 442.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:06 amremember the ’70’s and early ’80’s? This nation took pride in “looking for the union labelâ€. it meant we were looking out for our fellow American, even if it meant a little more to pay.
Remember the “Made in USA†signs in Wal-mart?
Seen those lately?
It still means something to some of us Americans.
It might. Americans didn't demand so many consumer goods, multiple cars, 3+ bedroom houses, and infinite quantities of healthcare back then, of course.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:11 amYou’re not at fault if you do not support illegals. This has nothing to do with Islamo-Stalinism by the way. Comment by Mr. President
Then why do you throw that ludicrous phrase around so easily and often? Do you think the working man in America supports radical islamism? Do you realize that this radical extremism often comes from the profits of wealthy oil nations in the middle east?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:12 amYou said earlier that the only ones who would benifit would be American Manufacturing Companies.
Well, that is true.
But doesn't that also mean that if they pay a fair wage, because they are not competing with China (who doesn't), then don't the American Workers also benifit?
And if you started this discussion talking about easing taxes for American Companies, doesn't this help those same American Companies?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:14 amIt might. Americans didn’t demand so many consumer goods, multiple cars, 3+ bedroom houses, Comment by m12
So what do you spend your money on mr economyth? Houses? Cars? Consumer goods?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:15 amIf the working classes wages can’t keep up with inflation of course they will be Chinese products. And what does that accomplish? To strengthen communism? WTF?
Working class compensation is keeping pace with inflation. You are ignoring tax friendly retirement and health insurance benefits.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Labor/images/b2040_chart3-lg.gif
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:15 amIt is included. The national debt/deficit figures include off budget expenses such as the war.
Comment by m12
Okay... yes, the cost of the Iraq war ends up in the national debt, in the long run. The deficit is the shortfall the Feds run each yr. They are supposed to produce a budget that shows both where revenues come from and how things are paid for. When BuschCo repeatedly asks for more money and they get it thru supplementals, these supplementals are NOT part of that budget. They are above and beyond it. Sure all the deficits end up as part of the US debt, but we're not being told the truth as to how much all of this is costing us, until after the fact.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:16 amAm I to think that wealthy m12 economist lives in a cave and counts his coins like scrooge?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:17 amComment by Solipsist — July 2, 2007 @ 12:12 am
You missed the definition of the word, I will show it to you sometime. It does not pertain to the current arguments of illegal immigration, per se.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:18 amWorking class compensation is keeping pace with inflation. You are ignoring tax friendly retirement and health insurance benefits.
http://www.heritage.org/ Research/ Labor/ images/ b2040_chart3-lg.gif
Comment by m12
Hardly. Congress fough tooth and nail against raising min wage. Then gave themselves a raise. Disparity is at an all time high.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:19 amI need to get ready for a week of work. Obviously, the troll who calls himself m12 has nothing, and the troll who occasionally calls himself Mr President is even more weak.
I leave for the evening with one final request for something not totally arse-blown: m_12, either address the question of productivity or pack your bags and GO.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:19 amwe’re not being told the truth as to how much all of this is costing us, until after the fact.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Then factor in that we are becoming indebted to another nation; a communist nation. That just happens to be the only other remaining super power. Very tricky situation for future dealings with them. Ever tried to negociate with someone you owe money too?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:19 amFor example imagine how difficult it is to explain to guests that your dad is also your uncle.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 2, 2007 @ 12:00 am
It must be very awkward for him.
And hilarious for the rest of us!!
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:20 amThey don’t “pay their fair share†even with an income tax. You pay it.
Read the CBO paper in post 442.
Comment by m12
Okay, I get that. Corps just pass the costs on to us. What do corps do w/ their profits? Pass them along as dividends? Pay CEOs insane salaries? Should we eliminate the capital gains taxes too?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:21 amIt might. Americans didn’t demand so many consumer goods, multiple cars, 3+ bedroom houses, and infinite quantities of healthcare back then, of course.
Comment by m12 — July 2, 2007 @ 12:11 am
You were just bragging about Americans living in big houses and having all sorts of crap a while ago. It's ok now, but it wasn't ok then?
I've got news for you -- it's not ok ever. PERIOD.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 amBut doesn’t that also mean that if they pay a fair wage, because they are not competing with China (who doesn’t), then don’t the American Workers also benifit?
The workers that work for those companies, yeah. The workers who work for other companies buying those products get screwed with higher prices and/or inferior products.
That might be what you want, or course.
http://www.futurecasts.com/Book%20review%204-09.htm
Consumers pay $24 billion annually to protect about 170,000 textile jobs - or about $140,000 per job. The cost is $350,000 per job in protected machine tool manufacturing and $600,000 in sugar.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 amEver tried to negociate with someone you owe money too?
Comment by willyloman
Yes, and my right thumb was in a cast for weeks.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 amYou missed the definition of the word, I will show it to you sometime. It does not pertain to the current arguments of illegal immigration, per se.
Comment by Mr. President
I have read your posts of the definition of Islamo-Stalinism. It makes as much sense as the war on christmas.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 am#505: infinite quantities of healthcare
I'll settle for decent health care, at a reasonable cost. I don't think many Americans require "infinite" health care. But I think most of us believe that the current system--in which HMO's, rather than doctors, make decisions about our health care--is broken.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 amYes, and my right thumb was in a cast for weeks.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
"They took my Thumb!"
What movie was that?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:24 amOkay… yes, the cost of the Iraq war ends up in the national debt, in the long run. The deficit is the shortfall the Feds run each yr. They are supposed to produce a budget that shows both where revenues come from and how things are paid for. When BuschCo repeatedly asks for more money and they get it thru supplementals, these supplementals are NOT part of that budget. They are above and beyond it. Sure all the deficits end up as part of the US debt, but we’re not being told the truth as to how much all of this is costing us, until after the fact.
That argument might have had some merit in 2003, maybe in 2004, when nobody knew how much the war would cost. Kind of difficult to be surprised in the 3rd/4th year of the war and beyond when you know the expense is coming.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 amm12, I had to answer that question about my house being an accounting trick. In a word, yes.
Thanks to every tom, dick, and harry qualifying for a home loan, whether they could afford it or not, housing prices have shot through the roof. House prices have increased by 21% over 5 years, here in Denver. In 2004, the average house price was $289,000, or 6.4 years of labor at the average wage of 45k, and 29.2 years at the then minimum-wage of $5.15 an hour (assuming 8 hour days, 5 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year). Today, I can't even find numbers for housing rates, but the simple answer is that it's too god damn expensive to buy a house. That's why we rent one.
Artificially inflate the demand for an item, and basic economics says that the cost of the item will go up. Anyone who knows the first thing about economics knows this. By letting everyone from people with aweful or no credit history through people without demonstratable income all the way to illegal immigrants who can't provide a social security number (!!!) buy houses, prices for the houses have gone into out-fricking-rageous-land. And while we're seeing slow growth here (3.1% over 1 year), it seems that the major shakeup is on the other side of the hill, and when we hit it, home prices will fall like rocks.
Another part of the problem is people buying houses to make money off of. Too many people want 280k+ for a house they bought for less and 'prettyfied' (by installing knicknacks like marble countertops and fancy stoves, bought for a pittance from places like Walmart, who buys the crap from China), when all we really want is a good house that we ourselves can improve for 1/3rd the cost...not to sell to some other schmuck, but to live in ourselves!
The end result? YES. House prices are an accounting gimmick, that relies on people's continued buying into cheap loans that they really cannot afford in the hopes of spending a few hours and some dough so as to turn a profit. Should they fail to sell (or a family who couldn't afford the loan they were sold get bit by that loan), massive foreclosures that are happening today in Denver will start to erode the value of _everyone's_ housing.
Seriously, read the Denver Post. Here are some good articles:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4736941 - Housing Sales down
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_5510147 - Rentals up
http://www.denverpost.com/foreclosures - Foreclosures up
http://www.denverpost.com/foreclosures/ci_4952943 - Lending Fraud
And the most frightening article of all, which I discovered after writing this:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5796002 - House Prices DOWN
m12, to directly answer your question? Yes. House prices are an accounting gimmick.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 amThe cost is $350,000 per job in protected machine tool manufacturing and $600,000 in sugar.
Comment by m12
People are not machines m12. If I were to exact the amount of energy you burn a day, sitting behind a desk, you would be tossed into the garbage pail. You are talking what Jesus was against -Usury.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:27 amwas the the "The Pope of Greenwich Villiage"? Eric Roberts?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:27 am"Charlie. They took my Thumb!"
The only act of violence Jesus committed was to throw the money changers out of the Temple.
Good point.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 amThat argument might have had some merit in 2003, maybe in 2004, when nobody knew how much the war would cost. Kind of difficult to be surprised in the 3rd/4th year of the war and beyond when you know the expense is coming.
Comment by m12
Kind of like saying that BuschCo sold us the war on an ARM. Sure, it's hard to be surprsied NOW, but back then, BigDickâ„¢ was telling us we'd be greeted as saviors.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 amhttp://www.cidcm.umd.edu/inscr/
more specifically the Polity IV regime Statistics
Shows wealth being concentrated in fewer hands.
polity charts
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:30 amThere is something fundamentally wrong with a country that thinks health care is a privilege and not a right. That's us folks. The only industrialized nation that does not respect it's citizens enough to ensure that there is health care available for all.
Thanks you Michael Moore. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:30 amKind of like saying that BuschCo sold us the war on an ARM. Sure, it’s hard to be surprsied NOW, but back then, BigDick™ was telling us we’d be greeted as saviors.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Isn't that Hillary's excuse?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:31 amm12, to directly answer your question? Yes. House prices are an accounting gimmick.
Comment by Jeremy
Good post, dude. I LIKE it! There was a book back in the late '80's, written about the economic boom and bust of the early '80's, and it was called "Funny Money". Can you do tricks w/ balance sheets? Hell yes!
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 amHow so does the followers of Mammon cloak themselves in the words of Jesus and then commit the sin of usury and think themselves to do the work of the lord?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 amOkay, I get that. Corps just pass the costs on to us. What do corps do w/ their profits? Pass them along as dividends? Pay CEOs insane salaries? Should we eliminate the capital gains taxes too?
Basically, yeah. A fair number of nations, including Belgium and the Netherlands, don't have a capital gains tax.
They probably should eliminate it for Americans earning less than $250k or so, so the middle and upper middle class can built up greater savings and nest eggs. Either that, or increase the IRA caps.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 amThere is something fundamentally wrong with a country that thinks health care is a privilege and not a right. That’s us folks. The only industrialized nation that does not respect it’s citizens enough to ensure that there is health care available for all.
Thanks you Michael Moore. We all owe you a debt of gratitude.
Comment by Katie
You are right, but it was not by accident. Our parents were taught that it was the Gateway to communism. They internalised that idea and slowly it worked itself into our collective wisdom.
We still fear it. By design.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 amIsn’t that Hillary’s excuse?
Comment by willyloman
Dunno. I don't like Hillary and therefore don't listen to what she says. What are you getting at?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:34 amPeople are not machines m12. If I were to exact the amount of energy you burn a day, sitting behind a desk, you would be tossed into the garbage pail. You are talking what Jesus was against -Usury.
So you want 300 million Americans to pay more for sugar, and sugar based goods, so a few thousand can hold their jobs?
Well, ok.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:36 am"Working class compensation is keeping pace with inflation. You are ignoring tax friendly retirement and health insurance benefits. "
Comment by m12 —
Except that's not what the chart you supplied shows. It says "productivity and costs" - which includes the health-insurance plans for bosses. These have become the most lucrative tax-shelters for higher-income people, as they are tax-deferred. I've read articles which state that upper-income folks (read: corporate bosses) have begun using health plans instead of other forms of compensation, to make it appear to shareholders that they aren't being over-compensated, as these plans don't normally show up in profit/loss statements. These tax shelters have been used to such an extent that they are now skewing the numbers in the labor dept. stats.
And your chart shows the two stats aren't close to tracking the same.
Or am I wrong?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:36 amThey probably should eliminate it for Americans earning less than $250k or so, so the middle and upper middle class can built up greater savings and nest eggs. Either that, or increase the IRA caps.
Comment by m12 — July 2, 2007 @ 12:33 am
So basically f*ck anyone lower than middle class, right? They don't need their nest eggs, they're too busy being poor.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:37 amOh yeah...another funny bit, this time about Sicko. I was at work the other day, and I went to help a scientist out with her computer. When I came in, she was listening to what I later learned was the preview to Sicko. I almost fell in my tracks -- it's the part about the woman saying that she found out after the fact that her _ambulance_ service was not approved by her insurance company. Same thing happened to us, and we're 700 in the hole for that. Wow...how exactly am I supposed to know which ambulance service will pick up my wife, who is currently lieing in the bathroom, unable to move, pale (she's black, this should say something...), after having literally spewed from both ends thanks to a stomach bug, seriously dehydrated, and according to the ambulance people, in serious trouble. She's all of a hundred pounds dripping wet wearing combat boots (5' tall, too, makes an excellent chin rest for my comparitively large 6' frame), and they put _two_ packs of saline drip in her). Hey, T, wait up while I pull up your insurance stuff and call all the ambulances in the Metro Denver area until I find one that will service you. Damn, Denver Health can be here in 5 minutes, but there's some small ambulance company in Franktown that will be here in 2 hours that will take your insurance -- Denver Health certianly won't.
Riiight. Moore's show is dead on. American's healthcare system blows.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:37 amSo you want 300 million Americans to pay more for sugar, and sugar based goods, so a few thousand can hold their jobs?
Well, ok. Comment by m12
So you want to pay more for gasoline so an Exxon CEO can get a 400 million dollars bonus? How does that keep jobs?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:39 amso a few thousand can hold their jobs? Well, ok.Comment by m12
I am sure that 400 million dollar bonus didn't help anyone hold on to their job.
Look, m12, no man needs 400 million dollars to survive. Do you?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:41 amDunno. I don’t like Hillary and therefore don’t listen to what she says. What are you getting at?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Uh,oh. I'm not turning into a troll.
She kept saying for 4 years that she was "fooled" by BushCo and Cheney. Even as she voted to continue the war. Kind of a retroactive do-over without ever really changing.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:42 amExcept that’s not what the chart you supplied shows. It says “productivity and costs†- which includes the health-insurance plans for bosses. These have become the most lucrative tax-shelters for higher-income people, as they are tax-deferred. I’ve read articles which state that upper-income folks (read: corporate bosses) have begun using health plans instead of other forms of compensation, to make it appear to shareholders that they aren’t being over-compensated, as these plans don’t normally show up in profit/loss statements. These tax shelters have been used to such an extent that they are now skewing the numbers in the labor dept. stats.
I'm not sure how you define corporate bosses, but there are millions of Americans with employer compensated health insurance included in those BLS figures. Surely you don't think everyone is a boss?
You are right though. Americans of all classes, including upper incomes, use health insurance compensation because it isn't taxed.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 amSo you want to pay more for gasoline so an Exxon CEO can get a 400 million dollars bonus? How does that keep jobs?
Congress, and thus the people, has the power to get rid of the sugar tariff. Even if you feel a $400m bonus is a problem (this is about $1.33 a person), its not so easy to do something about it.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 amSo basically f*ck anyone lower than middle class, right? They don’t need their nest eggs, they’re too busy being poor.
Promoting saving for the middle class f*cks the poor? Explain that brilliant conclusion!
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:46 am"I’m not sure how you define corporate bosses, but there are millions of Americans with employer compensated health insurance included in those BLS figures. Surely you don’t think everyone is a boss?"
You're not sure?
Then your assertion (and your linked graph) is pure bunk.
I would define it as anyone who is in management, or on the board (these figures are included as well).
Next time you post a graph, be sure it doesn't bite you on the ass ;)
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:51 amits not so easy to do something about it. comment by m12
In other words you don't care if your getting screwed economically.
Your economic degree surely sees this as an economic injustice.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:51 amSo basically f*ck anyone lower than middle class, right? They don’t need their nest eggs, they’re too busy being poor.
Comment by Zooey
I believe the original point of the "progressive" income tax was to prevent the formation of financial dynasties in this country, like the Walton heirs (Oops! Too late for that!). It was also why corporations were severely limited in what they could do, as opposed to today's multinational behemoths.
At its highest levels, the personal income tax was indeed confiscatory, like in the Beatles song, "Taxman". Frank Capra once complained abouut paying a 90% tax rate on his income in the higher brackets.
The rich in turn has weapons like trusts and personal holding companies to fight back w/. In some ways, the point of some laws such as the inheritance tax is to "hobble", if you will, the rich in their ability to use their wealth to push the rest of us around.
How do you fight economic disparity? How do you prevent Walmart from devastating the economies of small towns, or do you not?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:53 amPromoting saving for the middle class f*cks the poor? Explain that brilliant conclusion!
Comment by m12 — July 2, 2007 @ 12:46 am
You said you were in favor of eliminating the capital gains tax for the middle and upper classes -- not the lower classes. Sounds to me like if someone in the lower class bracket finally figures out they could make a few bucks by selling the old homestead, they'll be paying the capital gains tax -- unlike the middle and upper classes. Hence being f*cked.
I'll admit I only know enough to work with my personal finances, and I'm no whiz at the bigger stuff, but this sounds wrong to me. Of course, it came from you, so it probably is wrong.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:53 amSo Exxon screws me and you m12 for 1.33 and then Shell screws me and you m12 for 1.33 and then Mobil screws me for a 1.33 and then sugar tariffs screw me and you and so on and so on...As I said your strangling yourself with your numbers.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:54 amThen your assertion (and your linked graph) is pure bunk.
I would define it as anyone who is in management, or on the board (these figures are included as well).
The graph includes all workers. Are you claiming that management should be exluded for some reason?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:54 amShe kept saying for 4 years that she was “fooled†by BushCo and Cheney. Even as she voted to continue the war. Kind of a retroactive do-over without ever really changing.
Comment by willyloman
I got ya. Yeah, that's a good example of why I dislike Hillary. She seems to change her spots a little too often...
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:54 amBut that 400 million m12, was only a drop in the bucket for record profits for the oil industry. How much did that cost you number man?
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:55 amI'm no ecconomist, but I know this. if we keep factoring in the income of these Global Corporations and the off-shore Hedge Funds to determine the relative "health" of the ecconomy, we are going to get worse before we get better.
Universal Health care will not kill the parts of the health industry that provides the services to the people (they will get better). it will simply remove 25 to 35% that the Health industry itself claims as overhead (compared to 1% for Medicare). And when you factor in that Health Care in this country makes up about 15% of the GDP, that is a big savings.
And beyond the numbers, that really mean nothing... we should take pride in the fact that we are working to improve the lives of all Americans. not just the poor or the rich. That money and physical wealth is irrelevant to the value of the person in the eyes of our care givers.
It is an ideological point that cannot be rationalized on spread sheets.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:55 amIn other words you don’t care if your getting screwed economically.
Your economic degree surely sees this as an economic injustice.
I don't know where you got that from, but it's not a matter of not caring.
Its a matter of solving the problem being a bit more difficult than clicking your fingers.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:56 amAmericans of all classes, including upper incomes, use health insurance compensation because it isn’t taxed.
Comment by m12
And the corporate management types have learned to shelter millions of dollars in "golden" health plans - I've even read of million-dollar health plans - hardly something that compares with blue collar workers trying to save a few hundred bucks on their yearly tax bill. You're comparing apples and caviar, trying to equate the two.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:56 am"The graph includes all workers. Are you claiming that management should be exluded for some reason?"
Comment by m12
Now you're getting desperate. Look at my last post.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:57 amYou said you were in favor of eliminating the capital gains tax for the middle and upper classes — not the lower classes. Sounds to me like if someone in the lower class bracket finally figures out they could make a few bucks by selling the old homestead, they’ll be paying the capital gains tax — unlike the middle and upper classes. Hence being f*cked.
I’ll admit I only know enough to work with my personal finances, and I’m no whiz at the bigger stuff, but this sounds wrong to me. Of course, it came from you, so it probably is wrong.
Anyone under $250k obviously includes the poor as well. Obviously, this group by definition tends not to have much in the way of capital gains.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:57 amHow do you fight economic disparity? How do you prevent Walmart from devastating the economies of small towns, or do you not?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 2, 2007 @ 12:53 am
Lordy, you're asking me? All I know is that those things need to be done, and it seems like what we were doing before was working fairly well. Things can always be improved, of course, but not at the expense of the working and lower classes. Democracy thrives with a healthy and strong middle class, and what we're doing now is moving more and more people into the upper and lower classes -- mostly lower. Not good.
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:58 amThe graph includes all workers. Are you claiming that management should be exluded for some reason?
Comment by m12
July 2nd, 2007 at 12:58 amWhy not, they exclude the people who create the profits in the first place. Management is like excess lard. They do little, take long lunches and grow fat at your expense.
Even if you feel a $400m bonus is a problem (this is about $1.33 a person), its not so easy to do something about it.
Comment by m12
Ya know, even JP Morgan thought the highest paid employee, which s/b the CEO, of a corp should never be paid more than 8 times the salary of the lowest paid employee, and they didn't get much more capitalistic than JP.
On the other hand, I doubt if even guys like JP would have imagined the size of today's economy.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:00 amHow do you fight economic disparity? How do you prevent Walmart from devastating the economies of small towns, or do you not?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Bi-lateral Trade Agreements. End NAFTA, and GATT. These moves would force Wal-marts to pay more for products and purchase less of them. They would slow the building of new "Super Centers" and even fold some locations.
They would have to go back to the Made In America signs, and that would encourage investments in American manufacturing again.
Anyway. i saw that once on Gunsmoke. maybe it would work. Maybe it was Magnum PI
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:00 amAnd the corporate management types have learned to shelter millions of dollars in “golden†health plans - I’ve even read of million-dollar health plans - hardly something that compares with blue collar workers trying to save a few hundred bucks on their yearly tax bill. You’re comparing apples and caviar, trying to equate the two.
Yeah, they do exist, but they are averaged in with many more blue collar workers in the figures.
If you want to exclude the batch of people you consider 'rich', just say so.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:01 amAnyone under $250k obviously includes the poor as well. Obviously, this group by definition tends not to have much in the way of capital gains.
Comment by m12
Yet all your gains, paper money, depends on the swea of those that make less than 250k
It is sad to think that some people think money makes one a better person, it doesn't.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:01 amAnyone under $250k obviously includes the poor as well. Obviously, this group by definition tends not to have much in the way of capital gains.
Comment by m12 — July 2, 2007 @ 12:57 am
You didn't answer the question. I see why gummitch got so frustrated with you.
I know people who anyone would say are poor, and they are, but they have land. If the capital gains tax is eliminated for those making over $250K, when this poor old guy sells his land because he finally realized someone would pay him lots of money for it, he's the one paying the capital gains tax, when he's the one least able to afford it.
That is wrong. But you support it.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:02 amLordy, you’re asking me?
Comment by Zooey
Rhtorical question, Zooey. I don't have the answer either. I don't make a boat-load of money on this end. I live a simple life. I spend next to no money on consumer junk. I have ZERO degree of CC debt and I save as much as I can. Managed healthcare works for me. I'm too scared to get sick.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:03 am"The graph includes all workers. Are you claiming that management should be exluded for some reason?â€
Comment by m12
No, just that your (somewhat shaky, according to your graph) claim that compensation is evenly tracking productivity increases is only accomplished by mixing in the compensation of bosses as well as workers - something that is intellectually (and economically)suspect at best.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:03 amIt is sad to think that some people think money makes one a better person, it doesn’t.
Comment by Solipsist — July 2, 2007 @ 1:01 am
I agree 100%.
I have a feeling m12 has the first dollar he ever earned, but he's a sorry-assed excuse for a human.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:04 amIf you want to exclude the batch of people you consider ‘rich’, just say so. Comment by m12
The thing is you aren't rich. Just look at the tombs of Kings chambers full of gold. They didn't take it with them now did they?
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:04 am"If you want to exclude the batch of people you consider ‘rich’, just say so."
Comment by m12
I say so.
Post a graph listing the compensation/productivity for middle class americans. Let's be generous; I'll set the level at $55,000.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 amI know people who anyone would say are poor, and they are, but they have land. If the capital gains tax is eliminated for those making over $250K, when this poor old guy sells his land because he finally realized someone would pay him lots of money for it, he’s the one paying the capital gains tax, when he’s the one least able to afford it.
Under $250k, not over. You flip a word and change the meaning of the sentence.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 amIt is sad to think that some people think money makes one a better person, it doesn’t.
Comment by Solipsist
i think Paris Hilton pretty much ends that line of thought.
Did i just use Paris Hilton in a debate of ecconomic theory?
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 amEnd NAFTA, and GATT.
Comment by willyloman
I'd agree w/ you on that one. I have to say, I no longer think the point of life is to consume endlessly.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 amI have a feeling m12 has the first dollar he ever earned, but he’s a sorry-assed excuse for a human. Comment by Zooey
I don't get it. There is no correlation between money and life.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:07 amRhtorical question, Zooey. I don’t have the answer either. I don’t make a boat-load of money on this end. I live a simple life. I spend next to no money on consumer junk. I have ZERO degree of CC debt and I save as much as I can. Managed healthcare works for me. I’m too scared to get sick.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 2, 2007 @ 1:03 am
Whew! Thanks, the pressure is off. :)
Same here. I always took jobs that allowed flexible time since I was raising the men on my own, so I've never made much. But I live simply and save as much as possible. The U of I requires some sort of health insurance, so I'm on their student health plan, which is way cheaper than the individual policy I had before. I'm grateful for what I have, but if anything really big goes wrong I think I'll be fairly screwed.
It shouldn't be this way in the US.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:09 amUnder $250k, not over. You flip a word and change the meaning of the sentence.
Comment by m12
Just quit, please. It didn't cost a damn thing for your father to impregnate your mother. And you will go to your grave just as broke as you came into this world.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:09 amSo you can get a cheap DVD player. The IPhone is still going to cost whatever is market price in Tokyo or Milan.
i would rather pay alittle extra knowing that somewhere in Flint Michigan, a neighborhood is coming to life again.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:10 amBi-lateral Trade Agreements. End NAFTA, and GATT. These moves would force Wal-marts to pay more for products and purchase less of them. They would slow the building of new “Super Centers†and even fold some locations.
They would have to go back to the Made In America signs, and that would encourage investments in American manufacturing again.
You're looking at a dangerous transition period as prices of goods increase quickly while investment in American manufacturing only accrues over time.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:12 amUnder $250k, not over. You flip a word and change the meaning of the sentence.
Comment by m12 — July 2, 2007 @ 1:06 am
Sorry, I realize now that I read your initial comment wrong.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:12 amI'd be satisfied if you apologized for trying to pull a fast one with that bogus graph, M12.
Perhaps you didn't realize that bosses' health plans were included in the Labor Dept. figures; I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:12 amIt didn’t cost a damn thing for your father to impregnate your mother.
Comment by Solipsist
Now they tell me. Guess I've been going about it all wrong.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:14 amI’d be satisfied if you apologized for trying to pull a fast one with that bogus graph, M12.
Perhaps you didn’t realize that bosses’ health plans were included in the Labor Dept. figures; I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
It's not a bogus graph. It includes exactly what it says it does.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:15 amIt shouldn’t be this way in the US.
Comment by Zooey
No, it shouldn't, Zooey. There's no need for it. There's enough of what matters to go around. (See comment below for further information...)
And you will go to your grave just as broke as you came into this world.
Comment by Solipsist
Right, Solipsist! As far as I can tell, there isn't a single solitary person who ever lived who took it w/ them. I can understand why people work to get rich up to a certain level, but once you get past that, what's the point of piling up abstract wealth far beyond what you could ever need or even use? Especially if you're engaging in predatory behavior to do so?
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:17 amI don’t get it. There is no correlation between money and life.
Comment by Solipsist — July 2, 2007 @ 1:07 am
Well, money won't buy you happiness, but it will certainly give you the ability to make more choices.
Having said that, money is the least of my worries and I haven't worked since November -- going to school instead. That's what I saved money for all those years!!
To my ex-husband money was everything, absolutely everything, and he made Scrooge look like a spendthrift. But from his tax returns, which I saw every time he tried to reduce his child support, he had absolutely no savings. Miserly with money, shopped at Goodwill for everything, but pissed away his money on god knows what. What kind of life is that?
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:18 amYou’re looking at a dangerous transition period as prices of goods increase quickly while investment in American manufacturing only accrues over time.
Comment by m12
We're in an extremely dangerous period anyways.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:19 am580. Comment by m12
this is true. But We have other trade agreements (CAFTA) and other resources that we don't have to end immidiately.
But think of the Banks and the opportunity to get investments out there into the cities and the towns, in the manufacturing sectors.
Construction would go up to build the factories. Some factories could be reclaimed and retooled.
The Banks aren't going to miss the opportunities knowing that NAFTA and other trade agreements are going away.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:19 amYou’re looking at a dangerous transition period as prices of goods increase quickly while investment in American manufacturing only accrues over time.
Comment by m12
Dangerous to you. I can survive without Walmart or Exxon and your constant economic blathering. Mankind came about with no help from money.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:19 amNow they tell me. Guess I’ve been going about it all wrong.
Comment by willyloman — July 2, 2007 @ 1:14 am
Why are you trying to impregnate m12's mother? :D
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 amMy oldest son was living in Idaho a couple of years ago. He worked in a small specialty shop in a resort town 7 days a week and had no health insurance or benefits of any kind. He was playing basketball by himself at a court across the street from where he lived one evening and came down on his foot wrong and broke both long bones in his leg. He had to go by ambulance to the hospital. He had no insurance so they wouldn't let him spend the night. He had to go home and then come back in the morning for day surgery and leave as soon as it was over. He had plates and screws put in to put it all back together again. He still has them. They sent him home with pain meds. We flew up as soon as we heard and stayed for his first week post-operative. That little mis-step cost him around $20,000. He is still working at paying the ambulance people (2 years later). We took a loan against our house to pay the rest. He will spend MANY years paying us back.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 amNow he is a computer programmer and makes pretty good money WITH BENEFITS, and so if something happens, hopefully he will be taken care of. He will spend years catching up from the bad years..
Our daughter is now out of school and is in the same boat (in terms of no benefits or health care). Basically, most people inthis country are one accident or illness away from bankruptcy or homelessness.
Something has to change.
Miserly with money, shopped at Goodwill for everything, but pissed away his money on god knows what. What kind of life is that?
Comment by Zooey
he might have been lying about that, Zooey. Like we said above, yes, you can do tricks w/ financial statements.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 am(cont.) And if we tied this resurgance of American Manufacturing into Green Industries, we could lead the world in this type of manufacturing.
I mean, the steel mills alone could employ 100k or so.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:22 amWhy are you trying to impregnate m12’s mother? :D
Comment by Zooey it's easy? and I am lazy by nature.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 amhe might have been lying about that, Zooey. Like we said above, yes, you can do tricks w/ financial statements.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 2, 2007 @ 1:20 am
On his taxes as well? Oh well, my youngest is 19, it's a moot point now. I'm well rid of the ex and his child support!
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 amIt’s not a bogus graph. It includes exactly what it says it does.
Comment by m12
I can only quote Mark Twain at this point.
"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
If anyone can show me the family that has 2.3 children, for example, now's the time to do it!
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:24 amGuess I’ve been going about it all wrong.
Comment by willyloman
geez, and to think you could have been rich by now!
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:25 amIf anyone can show me the family that has 2.3 children, for example, now’s the time to do it!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 2, 2007 @ 1:24 am
Wow. So it's m12 against the sophists now.
m12, nice job.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:26 amWhat kind of life is that? Comment by Zooey
I couldn't say Zooey. But I would guess that money, though he loved it, was also his downfall and what probably led you and him to divorce.
I hope that whatever transpired that he is still in contact with his children and not letting money alter that.
July 2nd, 2007 at 1:27 amOn his taxes as well?
Comment by Zooey
Oh God yes. I've worked for some true financial sleezeballs (I'm a pretty sharp bookkeeper, ya know!) and they lied about everything and anything.
What's that old saying - keep 3 sets of books... one for the owners, one for the Feds, and one for yourself, so you know what's really going on.