High school scholars discuss meeting with Bush.
High school scholars discuss meeting with Bush.
Last week, a group of “50 high school seniors in the Presidential Scholars program” handed a letter to President Bush urging him to put a halt to “violations of the human rights” of terror suspects held by the United States. The handwritten letter said in part, “We do not want America to represent torture.” The young woman who handed Bush the letter, Mari Oye, talked with Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman about the interaction:
OYE: [Bush] read down the letter. He got to the part about torture. He looked up, and he said, “America doesn’t torture people”. And I said, “If you look specifically at the points we made” — because we were careful to outline specific things that are wrong with the administration’s policy. He said — so I said, “If you look specifically at what we said, we said, we ask you to cease illegal renditions,” and then I said, you know, “Please remove your signing statement to the McCain anti-torture bill.” And then I said that for me personally, the issue of detainee rights also had a lot of importance, because my grandparents had been interned during World War II for being Japanese American.
At that point, he just said, “America doesn’t torture people” again. And another kid, actually, from Montana came forward and said, “Please make the US a leader in human rights.” And that happened in the space of about a minute, but it was a very interesting minute with the President of the United States.
Watch a video of the interview here.
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88 Responses to “High school scholars discuss meeting with Bush.”
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Talking to Bush is like talking to a ………… bush.
July 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pmExcept that, I have heard plants have a level of awareness.
I believe in America. I believe in her people. I believe in our power as a people.
Mayflower Descendant
Descendant of minute men that rode in response to paul revere.
Believe - and let us take this country back.
July 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pmWow. I feel bad for the students.
I will pray for them. †
July 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pmIt’s pretty bad when you get “schooled” by a bunch of kids.
July 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pmI sure hope that when those kids are old enough to run for Congress, that the system hasn’t become so horribly corrupted, and vicious, and needlessly filled with lies, that would be unwilling to run themselves. We need people like them. They know right from wrong. The president doesn’t. I applaud them.
July 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pmBush: “America doesn’t torture people.”
High school student: “Please look at all the points we make.”
Bush (looks over document): “America doesn’t torture people.”
Does this sound like “This one goes to eleven” to anyone else?
July 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pmOf course these gifted high school students can run mental rings around the president - heck, he wouldn’t make it through the first three questions of “Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader?”
July 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pmWow.
The Liberal bias in public schools has ruined an entire generation of youngsters…
a damn shame.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pmYes, I feel bad for those students too, bad at the fact that they have to listen to the repetitive insane ramblings of another person who is so detached from reality that he can no longer escape from this illusion that he’s trying to protect himself in from the big bad world that hates him.
And I feel bad for you too Mr.Prez, you might just wanna pray for your own salvation while your at it, for supporting The worst elected leader in American history.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:01 pmComment by spit take — July 4, 2007 @ 8:58 pm
Nope. It sounds like a bunch of idiot students that don’t understand the meaning of words.
The Liberal bias in schools has turned these kids into morons.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:02 pmDoes this sound like “This one goes to eleven†to anyone else?
Comment by spit take
Genius, spit take. Just genius.
Those kids are truly the hope of the future. If only our trolls were 25% as mature and thoughtful, they might not be trolls!
July 4th, 2007 at 9:03 pmWow. I feel bad for the students.
I will pray for them. â€
Comment by Mr. President — July 4, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Wow. Why do you feel bad? Because now they are on Cousin W’s hit list?? For being so bold to address King George??
July 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI will pray for you. â€
Comment by Will to Power — July 4, 2007 @ 9:01 pm
I bet you don’t even know what the word “Will” in your handle means, do ya?
July 4th, 2007 at 9:05 pmOh yes, how liberal of me to think for 1 moment that America tortures people, maybe that student should have said ” Mr. President, please cease to preform ” enhanced interagation ‘ on the poor detainees.
I apologize for my oversight, please forgive me.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:06 pmDoes this sound like “This one goes to eleven†to anyone else?
Comment by spit take
LOL. Good one. It absolutely does!
Notice he doesn’t say “America doesn’t condone torture.”
July 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pmThat’s what extraordinary renditions were for.
America doesn’t torture people.
The people that we bring people to in secret do it for us.
But we don’t.
Look, something shiny!
Depends on how you look at it. what i say or write depends on how you wish to interpretate it 9 please forgive me for my poor spelling skills, english isn’t really my 1st language.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pmComment by Will to Power — July 4, 2007 @ 9:06 pm
I don’t think that Bush “preformed” enhanced interagation, and “poor detainees” … I think you mean Islamo-Fascists.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pmDamn, the old English as a second language excuse…
July 4th, 2007 at 9:10 pmDamn, the old English as a second language excuse…
Comment by Mr. President —
Compared to the neocon making-shit-up-to-cover-for-ignorance ploy, it’s pretty effective.
“Islamo-facists”
*snerk*
July 4th, 2007 at 9:14 pmSTFU Mr. President Youre acting like a fool.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm… burqafly…
heh…
July 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pmYeah, damn that old excuse, but the truth nevertheless.
But still, could anyone here enlighten me about this whole right wing/ left wing / conservative /liberal segregation in America? don’t you people swear to the same version of the US constitution ?
and what’s with this Islamo - Fascists name calling?
Here’s some words of wisdoms for you to live by, Do not do unto others what you do not what others to do unto you.
Speaking of praying , unless I read my bible the wrong way, the thing that Jesus Christ preached the most was tolerance. something you seem to be lacking as a true Christian.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:21 pm“burqafly…”
Is this supposed to make sense? Please explain how you think someone who uses alcohol on a fairly regular basis is a fan of Islam?
That’s just islame!
July 4th, 2007 at 9:23 pmComment by Will to Power — July 4, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Trust me. Ignore him. He and his many “personalities” (multiple screen names) are just trying to foment trouble. He can be amusing to read when others engage him, but you would be advised to avoid it yourself. No good will come of it.
The choice is yours. Good luck.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:25 pmThe poster known as Mr.presiDent, among his numerous other screen names, is a fabricator and 24 year old alleged college student.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:27 pmHe knows just enough to be a nuisance, and is not worth engaging in conversation with.
He spends many hours of every day here, just an indication of his actual functionality in society.
Comment by Will to Power — July 4, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
Just callin’ it as I see it.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pmDepends on how you look at it. what i say or write depends on how you wish to interpretate it 9 please forgive me for my poor spelling skills, english isn’t really my 1st language.
Comment by Will to Power — July 4, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Not to worry, WTP. You used it properly. Our poor trolls around here just aren’t very literate. We’re trying to get some new ones in, as this group is getting tiresome and dragging our game down towards their level. But it’s difficult these days, what with the GOP bleeding support like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pmI am encouraged that there are intelligent and courageous young people willing to confront the chimp-in-chief on his un-American activities.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:30 pmThere may be hope for America.
i know, I have read many of his inane ramblings many times, but i would just like to see if he is capable of being engaged in an actual conversation without any name calling and the rest of his usual antics.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pmIf at any point in time when I find him tiring, I will cease to continue the
conversation. besides, it’ll provide some form of entertainment for the rest of you.
#10
Nope. It sounds like a bunch of idiot students that don’t understand the meaning of words.
The Liberal bias in schools has turned these kids into morons.
You’re defending Bush and you’re calling other people idiots and morons? I guess there are a couple of words that you don’t understand the meaning of.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:31 pm#22 — Mr President just got owned by Will to Power.
Happy 4th of July everyone!!
July 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — July 4, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
Whatever, Wayne.
Everyone knows when I change names and I never try to deceive people…
On the other hand, you Lefties have started to hijack my name so I am forced to switch.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:33 pmburqafly…
…heh
July 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pm“America doesn’t torture peopleâ€
“America doesn’t torture peopleâ€
Stuck on stupid.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pmPlausible deniability from the President?
July 4th, 2007 at 9:44 pm“Plausible deniability from the President?”
Yeah, he was “out of the loop.”
July 4th, 2007 at 9:52 pmThe Liberal bias in schools has turned these kids into morons.
Comment by Mr. President — July 4, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
You’re right, Mr. Pee! Damn that liberal bias that reality has! Our schools should not be indoctrinating our kids with facts. They should teach both sides of the story — the conservative side and the factual, reality-based side. Then let the kids choose.
July 4th, 2007 at 9:53 pm“Plausible deniability from the President?â€
Yeah, he was “out of the loop.â€
Comment by barfly — July 4, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
More like he was too looped to understand what was being discussed …….
July 4th, 2007 at 9:59 pmBush is a sociopath.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:07 pmI see that V.V. = M.A. is here scraping bottom again.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:08 pmIt’s “pretty well documented” that any posts by Mr. President are not worth responding to. I get tired of having to scroll through his incoherent ramblings. What a waste of time.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pmSomebody lend that mule a grammar primer! Us Xians? there only just beginning? Whee!
July 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pmComment by Mr. President — July 4, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
Forget everyone else for the moment. This is just you and me. I don’t care what names, insults and pejoratives others have thrown out in response to your numerous (and I do mean numerous) posts, I do not believe that you are, in reality, stupid. I do believe that you possess a certain level of intelligence. And intelligent debate is what many of us would like to have, myself included.
I won’t speak for anyone else, though I do believe there are a couple-few regular posters who would do this too, but if you want to have a serious discussion on where and why we liberals disagree with you conservatives, then try to have one in a respectful way. I, for one, will respond in kind. Others may choose to do so, too.
Of course, you’ll have to create a brand new screen name to use, and to promise not to revert to any of the other characters’ tricks if you want to be treated respectfully in the future. But if you truly are conservative (even a libertarian one) and you want to discuss with us liberals (even us libertarian ones) why you feel this administration’s actions are justified or not, then let’s do it. I’m not any leader in this community, but people have remarked that I am capable of carrying on serious, respectful discussions with other self-identified conservatives. I am capable of getting along with others. I can get along with you.
And if it just so happens that you’re really a liberal looking to mess with us, then please, stop doing it to us and start helping us do it to them. You’re wasting your talents on us.
Just sayin’ is all. The choice is yours. It’s a free country.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:15 pmMr P,
I agree 100% with what Wayne said in #50.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:19 pmWill, just a meta comment:
It’s pretty nearly impossible to have an actual conversation on an internet message board. It’s poossible when you want to ask someone you know well “How was the Robert Cray concert?”. It’s also possible when you agreecompletely–but that’s not quite conversation. But it gets ridiculously hard when you’re trying to really work out a philosophical or policy proble, even when you’re friends. It falls apart completely when two people ae at all adversarial in the process.
And I mean ‘at all’. It doesn’t even have to be a lie, or a personal attack–all it takes is gettingasked three questions and only answering one of them. Not that that’s a mortal sin–but it keeps it from becoming a conversation.
And you can’t have a conversation–not one that gets anywhere when you’re arguing about fact–which is where we are most of the time here. You can’t have an examination of what Scooter’s commutation means whhen the other person is saying that Valerie Plame was not covert. Nor when they say that Clinton was responsible for Ruby Ridge–or when they say burning jet fuel can’t melt the steel girders of a building.
There’s work to be done before that can be a conversation.
The model for the comment board is the seminar: Everybody writes a paer, everybody reads the papers, everybody writes another paper incorporating the other papers’ points. It works in academia, but is cumbersome even there.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:21 pmThank you, Zooey. I enjoy having serious discussions as much as any of us. I just sense that it’s possible with him, too. I’m just trying to help all of us.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:23 pmAnd the only thing all fifty agreed on was that they were all smarter than Duh-bya…
July 4th, 2007 at 10:28 pmJust callin’ it as I see it.
Comment by Mr. President
Perhaps it would help to OPEN your eyes…
July 4th, 2007 at 10:33 pmYou’re right, Mr. Pee! Damn that liberal bias that reality has! Our schools should not be indoctrinating our kids with facts. They should teach both sides of the story — the conservative side and the factual, reality-based side. Then let the kids choose.
Comment by spit take — July 4, 2007 @ 9:53 pm
I actually do that, without pointing out which is which. They invariably call the conservative point of view ‘crazy’… LOL
July 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pmI’m still waiting for a reply form Mr.Prez or FrAnCiS ThY GrEaT.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pmComment by pbg — July 4, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
The point is that we’d like to have Mr P participate in a more productive fashion.
Thanks.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:46 pmThis is very refreshing to see these students call Bush on his nonsense…. Not like we can get the media to do it. Sad that he can’t even engage them in a discussion…. He was probably warned not to try.
I still think Yale and Harcard should revoke his degrees (in his case they are just diplomas), and then apologize to all their real graduates…
Well, Happy Fourth of July everyone!
Fireworks are over, so I’m going to go scrape one of my cats off the ceiling… :D
July 4th, 2007 at 10:46 pmThe point is that we’d like to have Mr P participate in a more productive fashion.
Thanks.
Comment by Zooey — July 4, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
I’m not 100% certain, but I think he’s trying to do that on the Rove thread right now. I could be wrong. But I am willing to respond to this new guy politely.
July 4th, 2007 at 10:51 pmComment by Mr. President — July 4, 2007 @ 10:47 pm
You’re really not helping….
July 4th, 2007 at 11:01 pm#62 - Fingers crossed… :)
July 4th, 2007 at 11:01 pm“America does not torture”
REPEAT
“America does not torture”
“Presidents don’t lie”
REPEAT
“Presidents don’t lie”
“And if you don’t get it right, the President will send you to Syria for a little remedial workout”
July 4th, 2007 at 11:04 pmApparently there was a really embarrassing moment, when Bush tried to read “My Pet Goat” to the kids, until someone explained to them their IQ’s were higher than his.
July 4th, 2007 at 11:07 pmFinally, some Americans with guts. I love it.
And I’ve always got a kick out of Carole Coleman’s account of her interview with Bush: Ireland, I wanted to slap him.
July 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pmBush picked up the book, and read the title as “Pet My Goat”,
July 4th, 2007 at 11:23 pmand became paralyzingly confused.
Trolls- If you support Bush & his war in Iraq, then join the Army & prove you believe that Bush is right.
The students were right and it is the American way to ask questions of the people we elect to office. Bush forgets who he serves, forgets his oath of office, and he thinks only of himself and his money buddies. And since, for all his life, he has had someone else think and cover for his lameness, he will lie to avoid answering a question- it has been so ever since he was born.
Time after time we can depend on Bush to provide an example of what the Founding Fathers were freeing themselves from when they formed this country the tyranny of the rich & powerful. Bush, thinks he is above the law, and the Constitution and Bill of Rights don’t apply to him. His downfall will be soon, and for once, he will not be able to escape the consequences of his lawlessness & disdain for the principles of the Founding Fathers.
July 4th, 2007 at 11:32 pm1/ Clinton(ofcourse he wouldn’t have created the problem to have the actual letter) would have actually has a discussion with the kids.
2/ I hope somebody(hint,hint TP) would keep in touch with these kids and see if they or their parents suffer any consequences from having their names on this letter i.e. student loan problems, IRS audits, job issues if the parents have federal jobs or other governmental jobs etc. etc.
July 4th, 2007 at 11:46 pm“We don’t torture people”. If their organs fail and they die, I guess they weren’t tortured. They were in fact murdered.
Please ask Jose Padilla about torture. They tortured him to the point where he is unable to participate in his defense. He has become what has been described as a “zombie”.
It’s too bad that the students didn’t just say back to him “You, sir, are a liar”.
I would love to see someone call him a liar to his face. Because that’s what he is.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:02 amTo paraphrase a slogan from the NRA:
America doesn’t torture people. Insane megalomaniacal halfwit deluded neocons torture people.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:04 amTo paraphrase a slogan from the NRA:
America doesn’t torture people. Insane megalomaniacal halfwit deluded neocons torture people.
Comment by gorn by any other name — July 5, 2007 @ 12:04 am
Or, “America doesn’t torture people. Torturers torture people.”
July 5th, 2007 at 12:06 amWould you people just stop allowing Mr. President and his ilk the ability to hijack every thread. That is the only reason why they are here. They have nothing to add to the conversation. All they do is throw stink bombs and sit back and wait until someone reacts. If you just ignore the stink, they will eventually get bored and go away.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:08 am“Would you people just stop allowing Mr. President and his ilk the ability to hijack every thread. “ - katie
A nice idea, but you may have noticed it’s impossible to accomplish. Trolls know that the high volume of people coming and going on TP means that at least a small subset will engage them, thus they accomplish their orgasmic goal. I don’t think most of them are even conservative, just anarchists and sad, sad lifeless losers.
TP can get control of the situation if they care, but it’s clear enough that they don’t.
This same frigging conversation and complain happens daily (hourly?) and no action is taken. There are many technical solutions to the problem, but obviously they like the traffic more than they like the quality/integrity of discussion.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:12 amComment by gorn by any other name — July 5, 2007 @ 12:12 am
In addition to registration, which I believe a great many regulars favor, they could also give us a spellchecker and a preview screen, like C&L does (who also use Word Press).
Anybody at TP reading these? I know it’s a holiday and all, but does anybody see what has been happening these past few weeks?
July 5th, 2007 at 12:18 amI’ve been lurking for quite a while here, and I wanted to make a post to comment about, but not to, Mr. President.
I don’t understand why most of the posters don’t ignore him. He seems to bring nothing to the table of debate except some unmovable, tired displays of irrationality. I know by posting this that I am partially fanning the flames, but so be it.
I noticed in this thread that he started making comments, and as no one responded to them, he started to become more caustic with his comments. As soon as somebody fed him, he commented immediately and didn’t stop for a while.
In most of the threads that I’ve seen, his is one of the first posts which lead me to believe that he just refreshes for new stories and commences his same, tired routine.
It’s rare that I jump into the foray like this, but his trolling has become very irritating and I’m sure he’s pleased he got this much of a rise out of me.
My recommendation to him would be to debate with logic and reasoning. Something almost all of his posts categorically lack.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
July 5th, 2007 at 12:54 amThese student scholars showed more class, dignity and intelligence than Bush has ever demonstrated. They were disrespected by a man who is so morally corrupt that he places his own, selfish expediency before the needs of the nation, despite his oath of office.
Thanks go again to the young people who are brave and articulate enough to expose the corruptor for what he is. And for the trolls who would insult the young scholars, think again. Their integrity and decency is evident, and your efforts to soil their courage is a reflection of your own inadequacies.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:59 amI found this story inspirational. Perhaps we can hope that more young people like these are coming of age in America? Amazing to me how courageous these students were in giving voice to what they correctly perceive as the extreme mistreatment (torture) of terror suspects being held by the United States. And to express these concerns by confronting the President of the United States nonetheless!
They clearly understand something here that the President does not! So young, and yet far wiser and far more humane than the leader of our country! The so-called leader of the free world.
This could have been an opportunity for the President to honestly address their legitimate concerns, but instead, sadly and pathetically, he chose to lie. Who could truly respect, let alone trust, such a “leader?” How ignominious.
July 5th, 2007 at 1:51 amComment by Carthago_Delenda_Est — July 5, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Thanks!!!!
I’m glad you like my work!!!
July 5th, 2007 at 3:42 amBush accepted the letter. Then he asked the students if he should read it now or later. They said it was up to him. He read through the letter and disagreed with their characterization of torture.
Despite the fact you disagree with him, doesn’t this exchange show that Bush is responsive to the people. He took his time to read the letter. He entered into calm discussion with the people that had handed him a letter questioning him and his policy. He just disagreed. Sounded like a pretty healthy exchange.
What it didn’t sound like was how many here try to label Bush: Unresponsive. Mad. Dictatorial. Insulated.
If you watch the video, apparently the students felt more comfortable addressing Bush, than the mother of the Japanese student had addressing LBJ at a similar event 40 years ago.
Reasonable progs will agree; Bush is not the dictator most here would have you believe.
July 5th, 2007 at 4:47 amTalking to Bush is like talking to a ………… bush.
Except that, I have heard plants have a level of awareness.
Comment by Raven — July 4, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Well, Moses talked to a bush, hmmm.
The bush was burning, hmmmm.
Oh, that’s the difference!
July 5th, 2007 at 5:24 amIQ’s are going up. This alone spells doom for the Republics.
July 5th, 2007 at 7:29 amReasonable progs will agree; Bush is not the dictator most here would have you believe.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — July 5, 2007 @ 4:47 am
Actually, reasonable people, regardless of party affliation, strongly disagree with you:
http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
The majority of people (more than 51%) haven’t approved of Heir Bush in years. The last poll posted on the above link was September 2005, almost 2 years ago, and the highest rating he had during that period was a 46 - though his numbers were generally in the mid to low 30s.
Based on the facts, reasonable people clearly disagree with you…
July 5th, 2007 at 7:59 am“they could also give us a spellchecker ”
Actually, your browser contains a spell checker. If you see a word you typed with a red underline, right click on it and you will see suggestions for the correct option for spelling the word. Click on the correct option and viola…it’s changed.
The other annoying thing this site does is that it loses my name and e-mail entries. This is the only site that does it. I post a couple of posts and then bang….I am told that I didn’t fill in my name and e-mail address. And when I hit my back button, my post is gone. This is something their technical people can fix, at least the part about my post being gone. I know it’s possible to preserve what you entered because other sites are able to do it.
TP - get your technical people on the ball and make this site more “user friendly”. We have given you lots of ideas.
July 5th, 2007 at 9:37 amSounded like a pretty healthy exchange.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — July 5, 2007 @ 4:47 am
Whew! Bizarre characterization of the concept “healthy exchange.” Bush NEVER addressed their specific issues. i.e., illegal renditions, McCain anti-torture bill, detainee rights, etc., NEVER actually engaged them at all in even a facsimile of a debate. Not only did he chose to ignore an exchange of any kind (healthy or otherwise) on these issues, he chose to deny the core of their concerns by simply refusing to admit the truth (in other words, lied) surrounding these concerns, viz., that the United States government is torturing these detainees, etc.
You people on the radical Right assign your own meaning and definitions to concepts and words solely to suit your own twisted views of the world. Your Orwellian use of language means the opposite of what it says. “Healthy exchange:” a variation on the “Clear Skies initiative” or the “Healthy Forests Act.”
July 5th, 2007 at 10:22 amThose “kids” are probably smarter than our current POTUS.
July 5th, 2007 at 10:46 amWhen torture is outlawed, only outlaws will use torture!
July 5th, 2007 at 11:21 amNot surprising as the President doesn’t believe that those who are “extraordinarily renditioned” are, in fact, “people.” To him they are just “terrists.”
July 5th, 2007 at 12:02 pmGotta remember kiddies, that every stinking word that comes out of Bush’s mouth is a LIE, every last word is a LIE.
July 5th, 2007 at 12:07 pmBush lied twice to some smart kids who now know him for what he is.
July 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmWhen torture is outlawed, only outlaws will use torture!
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 5, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Gee your right sarge. That logic is impeccable.
:|
And by that exact same logic I ask, why bother to outlaw raping children?
After all, if raping children is outlawed, only outlaws will rape children.
July 5th, 2007 at 5:08 pmOr perhaps is it possible, just possible, that there are some moral absolutes? Could it be things like, raping children and beating pregnant women with tire irons, is just morally wrong, under any circumstances?
I’m fully aware of the old tired RNC argument that “what if someone had information that would save 10,000 lives from being killed, is torture worth it then?”. Well, in the same vein I ask, what if that same person had information that would save 10,000 lives from being killed, and the terrorist wouldn’t break under torture, but he offers to provide it if you let him rape a 6 year old girl. Would you do that? Would it be “worth it”, to let a 6 year old girl be raped mercilessly while you watch, so that 10,000 Americans could keep from dying today, instead of sometime down the road?
And if so I ask, what kind of people are these 10,000, who would be ok with living longer if a 6 year old girl had to be tortured to do it? What sort of person would be ok living under those circumstances?
Are such lives worthy of being spared?
July 5th, 2007 at 5:18 pmIs the guy your torturing the right guy?
Is he a terrorist or an innocent college student with the same name?
Will he tell you the truth, or just tell you whatever he thinks you want to hear that will make him stop hurting you?
Will the information he has be valid, or will he be missing a peice of the puzzle?
Will you be competent and capable enough to stop it even if he does give you correct information, or will the event play out before your impotent eyes?
Is torturing helpless human beings the only way Americans can survive now?
Is tortuing helpless human beings what we are all about?
July 5th, 2007 at 5:22 pmWhy bother outlawing bank robbery?
After all, if robbing banks is outlawed, only outlaws will rob banks.
:|
And why bother outlawing car jacking?
After all, if car jacking is outlawed, only outlaws will jack cars.
July 5th, 2007 at 5:27 pmGeorge W. Bush
July 6th, 2007 at 10:40 amAccording to the Associated Press, “The White House says Bush did not expect the letter but took a moment to read it and talk with a young woman who’d handed it to him.”
July 7th, 2007 at 3:33 am