Senators Say They Will Call On Patrick Fitzgerald To Testify
Senators Say They Will Call On Patrick Fitzgerald To Testify
Today on CNN’s Late Edition, Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), chairman of the Judiciary Committee, and Arlen Specter (R-PA), the committee’s top Republican, announced that they were interested in calling Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald to testify about the CIA leak investigation.
Specter said he wanted Fitzgerald to appear so he could press him to justify the CIA leak investigation. “Why were they pursuing the matter long after there was no underlying crime on the outing of the CIA agent?” Specter said, echoing the common right-wing talking point. “Why were they pursuing it after we knew who the leaker was?”
Leahy, on the other hand, is apparently more interested in learning more about Fitzgerald’s interviews with President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Watch it:
As for calling Scooter Libby to testify, Leahy said it was a dead end. “It would do no good to call Scooter Libby. His silence has been bought and paid for,” he said, referring to Bush’s commutation, “and he would just take the fifth.”
Transcript:
BLITZER: Senator Schumer of the Judiciary Committee wants you to call Patrick Fitzgerald to testify before your committee on this whole issue. Do you want to do that?
LEAHY: That’s something I would discuss with Senator Specter before I did, but I know how concerned Mr. Fitzgerald is. And we may very well find ourselves going down that path. It would do no good to call Scooter Libby. His silence has been bought and paid for, and he would just take the fifth.
BLITZER: Senator Specter, what do you think about bringing Patrick Fitzgerald before the committee?
SPECTER: Reluctant as I am to agree with Senator Schumer, I think he’s right. And I’ll tell you exactly why. As a former prosecutor, I don’t have any brief for perjury and obstruction of justice, but I still haven’t figured out what that case is all about. Mr. Fitzgerald himself took out of the case the outing of Valerie Plame as a covert agent. We knew that the leak was Armitage long before Libby was ever called as a witness. We have Judith Miller kept in jail for 85 days. I visited her in the jail on the issue of reporter’s privilege. That court case cost several million dollars to prosecute. And there are a lot of ramifications that I think we ought to go into. Why were they pursuing the matter long after there was no underlying crime on the outing of the CIA agent? Why were they pursuing it after we knew who the leaker was?
BLITZER: Let me go back…
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Go ahead, Senator.
LEAHY: I think if my friend Arlen, and like me, he’s also — you know, we were both former prosecutors. That’s where we first met. And we tend to take a prosecutor’s view on this. If he has no objection to Mr. Fitzgerald coming forward, I think you may very well see Mr. Fitzgerald before the Senate Judiciary Committee. On these things, what I’ve always done is discuss them first with Senator Specter because we tried to take a bipartisan attitude toward these matters. But I have some of the very same questions in mind that Senator Specter has laid out very well. And I think you might find it to be an interesting hearing.
BLITZER: I’m sure we will.
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Perhaps they can determine who “ordered” the leak??
July 8th, 2007 at 5:46 pmThis might help…I hope so…we NEED THE TRUTH OR DEMOCRACY IS DEAD!!!
July 8th, 2007 at 5:48 pmStop da Snitchin’
July 8th, 2007 at 5:48 pmRUCerious: “Perhaps they can determine who “ordered†the leak??” – - Are you serious? Yeah, well, ok… but Fitz won’t testify and any information on this issue may only be gleaned well after they’ve left office.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:49 pmStop da Snitchin’
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Is this the only life you have, you poor sick troll fool? I am sure you will morph into another troll name and continue to spew non-sensical bullshit.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:50 pmbadmoonman, yeah, I am actually serious. If Fitz gets asked under oath certain questions, he would be required to answer if they didn’t violate attorney client privilege. Just hopin, that’s all.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:52 pmFor all the latest news, key reports, document releases and other essential materials surrounding Plamegate and the Scooter Libby commutation, see:
July 8th, 2007 at 5:53 pmPlamegate CIA Leak Resources
Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), “Leaky” Leahy is the right man
July 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pmSpecter is just a part of the cancer that is on our government. He along with all of the other neocons must be removed if America is to be saved.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:54 pmWhat up, Flaco?
July 8th, 2007 at 5:55 pmAn interesting move. Leahey used to be a prosecutor, so I am betting he sees something here.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:56 pmHey Leahy,
Go Fukc Yourself!
July 8th, 2007 at 5:57 pmPlease let this be true. I’d love to see fitzgerald up there shooting right wing talking point after right wing talking point down in his very straight foward cogent way.
July 8th, 2007 at 5:59 pmGotta wonder why Mr Pee wants to know if Flaccido has an erection?
July 8th, 2007 at 5:59 pmSpecter said he wanted Fitzgerald to appear so he could press him to justify the CIA leak investigation. “Why were they pursuing the matter long after there was no underlying crime on the outing of the CIA agent?†Specter said, echoing the common right-wing talking point. “Why were they pursuing it after we knew who the leaker was?â€
Answer: More questions: Why is the White House is refusing to cooperate with CIA leak if “nothing” illegal have happen? If Scooter Libby was truly innocent and he had not committed any “crimes” then why did he lie and obstruct Fitzgerald’s investigation? Why is the Bush administration is running for cover? The answer is BUSH AND THE GANG ARE GUILTY AS SIN.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:01 pmtalking about this earlier on sam seder’s show…
July 8th, 2007 at 6:03 pmseems because of the terms behind dumby and darth’s talking to fitz, there are no contraints on him and what he can say to the senate…
The reason Libby was called to testify after we knew Armitage was the first leaker is BECAUSE Armitage was called to testify and revealed Libby TOLD *HIM*. Libby was then called to testify who told him, but he did everything he could to protect Bush & Cheney, which is what he was convicted for!
I’m losing respect for Specter fast.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:06 pmJesus, you’d think Specter, being a lawyer, and a ranking member of the Senate judiciary Committee, would be able to grasp the concept of “obstruction of justice”.
You’d think he’d be able to figure out that when a witness lies, that tends to screw up the investigation, sometimes to the point where charges cannot be proven and so should not be brought by a responsible prosecutor.
You’d think he would have read and understood the court filings of Patrick Fitzgerald that explained that Mrs. Wilson was a covert agent of the CIA whose identity was illegally disclosed to the press.
You’d think.
But I guess RNC-sanctioned talking points are just easier to regurgitate on a Sunday morning.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pmbadmoonman, yeah, I am actually serious. If Fitz gets asked under oath certain questions, he would be required to answer if they didn’t violate attorney client privilege. Just hopin, that’s all.
Comment by RUCerious — July 8, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
RUC,
He cannot disclose, even to congress, the proceedings of the Grand Jury…He can however, talk all he wants to about the conversations he had which WERE NOT UNDER OATH with the completely corrupt VP and his pupeet GW Botch!! Now, I’m sure they wish their lies were under oath because Botch could then commute his own sentence!!
I look forward to that testimony!!!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:09 pmHey Leahy,
Go Fukc Yourself!
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
Thanks for that edifying contribution to the debate, Mr. Pee. Here’s a popsicle. Run along now.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:10 pmi am not sure if fitzgerald will be willing to do this with regard to the fact that he would intend to pursue further indictments if new evidence or testimony warrants it. i believe i read correctly on john dean’s blog recently that there is still a period of several years before the relevant statutes of limitation run out. i also believe that fitz dearly wants to nail who ever ordered the leak, so if testimony jeopardizes that prospect, he may balk. on the other hand, there probably are many questions he could address that might not impinge on his ability to prosecute based on new evidence, so they could possibly agree to something like that. besides, everything that he has to say of relevance is already in his public filings. maybe he could just review all his publicly available information and put it in front of the american public. that would explain why spectre’s question is not relevant due to its lack of any basis in fact or investigation. that would be good.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:11 pmYippeeeeeeeeeee!!
A popsicle!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:15 pmLEAHY: It would do no good to call Scooter Libby. His silence has been bought and paid for, and he would just take the fifth.
Oh god, I love that! Tell us how you feel Sen Leahy!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:18 pmGood Job, TP.
Crooks and Liars only had this story @ 9:40 this morning.
*YAWN*
When are you going to fix your problems?
July 8th, 2007 at 6:19 pmMr President,
If your name is being hijacked again, please report it immediately.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:20 pmI can make the case that Fitzgerald DID NOT PURSUE all avenues…
He never pressed for complete access to documents, facts, people, etc. HE WAS LAME!!! What do you except from a Repugniscum appointed by a completely corrupt DoJ??? Independent??? Hahahahahhaaahaaa!!!!
Bullsh!t!!
Fitz needs to seek the truth and not his politcal future!!!
Take the gloves off or just shutup and go away!!!!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:22 pmRU: Absolutely! Obviously, someone “ordered” the leak and that “someone” needs to be brought to justice for it. It’s just like one who orders a “hit” – they are just as guilty as the one paid to bring it to fruition.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:27 pmComment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Is this a place where ideas are advanced and grow or should those which seek this look elsewhere?
July 8th, 2007 at 6:28 pmBecause that “someone” who ordered the leak is guilt of treason – no if, ands, or but(ts) about it!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:28 pmNo, this is the real Mr Pee. He just lost an argument two threads down and descending into sexist pornographic language. Which he does seem to do when he’s beaten and too cowardly to admit it. And he hightailed it over to this thread. But I think he’s still wounded and crying out in sado-masochistic pain.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:28 pmOkay Zooey.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:31 pmIs this a place where ideas are advanced and grow or should those which seek this look elsewhere?
Comment by dbadass
It used to be, dbadass, but it’s looking pretty bad lately. If TP doesn’t provide name registration, or do something about this mess in the next month, I’ll be gone.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:32 pmMr President,
If your name is being hijacked again, please report it immediately.
Comment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
And, if not, WOW! Didn’t know you had it in you, kid.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:33 pmZooey,
I sent a message, should I email as well?
July 8th, 2007 at 6:35 pmI snitched…
July 8th, 2007 at 6:36 pmFitz can divulge the testimony to the grand jury after their term has expired and the case is done. Problem is, the case has never been closed.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:36 pmZooey,
I sent a message, should I email as well?
Comment by Mr. President
Whatever you like.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:39 pm#
For all the latest news, key reports, document releases and other essential materials surrounding Plamegate and the Scooter Libby commutation, see:
Plamegate CIA Leak Resources
Comment by Angry One — July 8, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Angry One: Thanks so much for this site. It’s definitely a “treasure trove” of pertinent and timely information.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:39 pmBush and Cheney met with Fitzgerald and did not testify under oath. That may give Fitzgerald freedom to answer questions from the Senators.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:40 pmBoy, did I miss a bunch going on this afternoon here at TP! It looks like the name hijacking has become a real problem.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:41 pmgood point, Marie! I hope we can get some honest information at last.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:42 pmNow that the Libby trial and investigation is over, it is time for Fitzgerald to testify under oath before Congress. The fact that no one was charged with leaking Plame’s name doesn’t mean a crime was not committed or that she was not outed. It’s false to say that there was no ‘underlying crime’. Fitzgerald was right to pursue Libby even if he or anyone else was not charged with the leaking itself. It is a pity that Libby can’t be compelled to testify. He will only take the 5th in order to protect the man who commuted his sentence. Libby is a convicted felon who should be in jail. He committed serious crimes and his sentence was only commuted to save Bush and Cheney from prosecution. No one is above the law, neither Cheney, Rove, Libby or Bush.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:44 pmI spent the afternoon listening to a lecture on “peace” which is something I’ve always held near and dear but it took this insightful talk to help me realize that this country (along with me) has experienced a major shift from peace to anger and every emotion in-between.
It occurs to me that just like there is no such thing as “darkness” (technically) since darkness is simply the “absence of light”, then does it also correlate that there is not such a thing as “war” as well since probably war can also be defined as the “absence of peace”??
July 8th, 2007 at 6:45 pmBush and Cheney met with Fitzgerald and did not testify under oath. That may give Fitzgerald freedom to answer questions from the Senators.
Comment by Marie
I remember that. didn’t he want them seperately and they had to go in together? Cheney didn’t trust Chimpy on his own. I guess I wouldn’t either if it was my treason charge on the line.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:46 pmAnd then there’s “inner peace” and “outer peace”…..and I can see how this administration has greatly disrupted both the inner peace as well as the outer peace of all of it’s citizens.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:46 pmNo one is above the law, neither Cheney, Rove, Libby or Bush.
Comment by Probus — July 8, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
If only that were true!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:47 pmIt occurs to me that just like there is no such thing as “darkness†(technically) since darkness is simply the “absence of lightâ€, then does it also correlate that there is not such a thing as “war†as well since probably war can also be defined as the “absence of peaceâ€??
Comment by veritas
Hello veritas,
There is “darkness,” and there is “war.” But we can be the light.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:48 pmIt occurs to me that just like there is no such thing as “darkness†(technically) since darkness is simply the “absence of lightâ€, then does it also correlate that there is not such a thing as “war†as well since probably war can also be defined as the “absence of peaceâ€??
Comment by veritas
Go to kennebunkport,me and then to Baghdad. What ever the difference is…is War.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:49 pmNothing is true. Everything is permitted.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:49 pmI have new respect for Specter for this really crafty move.
1. Specter may be conservative, but I don’t think he is a neo-con robot. He is a Republican and understands how political give-and-take works. He sees a President that is basically out of control and destroying the Republican party.
2. Specter can’t just start mouthing Democratic language because his own base contains an element of the neo-cons that are told how to think by the people on right-wing talk radio. However, Specter wants to get the current administration because thinks like the Libby pardon are killing the Republican political chances in 08.
3. Specter will call for further hearings in this are in order to “catch” Fitzgerald in the standard right-wing talking points (”she was not a covert agent…”, etc). Specter knows that under questioning in the Senate Fitzgerald will destroy these talking points, but that Fitzgerald will also bring out the dirty laundry that Bush and his Gang don’t want aired.
4. Specter can have his cake and eat it too; marginalize Bush and try to save some Republican votes in 08 and play to his own base (”I asked the hard questions, but I lost….”).
Very smart. When you see heavy-hitter Republicans like Specter playing this kind of double handed game with Bush and his Gang you know the end is near…..
July 8th, 2007 at 6:49 pmIf only that were true!
Comment by Egreggious
That is true. the Law is an ideal. Not a writ or a subpeana. It is what binds us to each other and the world.
They are not above the law nor out of it’s reach. They are out of our reach, for now.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:51 pmVery smart. When you see heavy-hitter Republicans like Specter playing this kind of double handed game with Bush and his Gang you know the end is near…..
Comment by Sluggo
That’s a very interesting angle on this, Sluggo. I’ll have to give it some thought. Thanks.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:52 pmDid anyone else sense a “cosmic shift” during the Live Earth event yesterday? I couldn’t quite put my finger on what was occurring all day but it felt to me, on a cellular level, that things were shifting around inside of me on a profound level. Following the concert, the new awareness for me was that if we can unite with our brothers all over the planet and focus on the survival of the human species, then how can we turn around and kills those same brothers for oil, greed, etc.?? It would be impossible.
Also, what became clear to me spiritually is that the unification of people which occurred as a result of Live Earth transcends the derelection of this administration toward all things integral to life which, obviously, they’re hell bent on destroying. To me it felt as though the people of this country recognize now that this was a tacit disapproval of George W. Bush – not simply by the people of his own country but a total rejection of his policies and persona by the entire planet.
This cosmic shift in consciousness is continuing today and I can’t tell you how many “peace signs” I saw yesterday during the concerts – the new “peace agenda” is now the priority in this country and things will now begin to shift and move in that direction – bowling over this administration in it’s wake.
This administration is destined toward self-destruction and they will accomplish it within the coming weeks.
I’m certain that many of you out there (trolls excluded, of course) have also felt it and know that we’ve now turned the corner, thanks to the genius of Al Gore (who should have been our president) and people who believe in a survival/peace agenda.
This country owes that man a debt of gratitude that is massive at this point.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:53 pmI’ll give him a free doobie!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:54 pmSluggo (and Zooey) I don’t know about you but I think that Arlen Specter is a total snake in the grass. Why is it that everytime he postures like he’s finally developed a soul and a conscience, it’s all about being the “frontman” for the Republican thugs?? And then he caves. He’s done this same exercise on just about every issue and it’s become quite a game for him. I don’t trust this snake at all.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:55 pmIs it my imagination or did we lose some trolls today?
I was on earlier and thought I was watching a monkey shit-throwing show here!
July 8th, 2007 at 6:56 pmI wonder when the media whores will pick up the new Kucinich resolution to reopen 911??? Probably when hell freezes over which is why no one is listening to the GOP owned media at this point.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:56 pmUpside00: I agree from the posts I read here. Perhaps they had a spontaneous combustion as a result of the concert yesterday! hee hee
July 8th, 2007 at 6:57 pmI do enjoy masterbating to Ann Coulter video footage.
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 6:18 pm
Yo, Nimod. Its masturbating.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:58 pmSpecter’s an odd fish. He acts like he wants to get tough on the Bush Crime Family, like he hates them, but then he always backs down at the last moment. I don’t know if he’s just trying to mollify his voters by appearing tough, or if his anger-then-acquiescence is a reaction to being blackmailed for some indiscretion.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:58 pmI wish someone had those clips of Specter’s posturing on each of the issues….it’s the “same old song” each time and it’s beginning to resemble a sick, twisted game on his part. He’s always had a rep for being a fraud and I doubt that that will change anytime soon…..Unless like Saul, he’s stricken from his horse one of these days….
July 8th, 2007 at 6:59 pmGo to kennebunkport,me and then to Baghdad. What ever the difference is…is War.
Comment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
The Port this time of year has its own little wars going. Trust me on this one. Still a bunch of white folk buying trinkets and thinking eating lobstah is some weird right of passage can’t hold a candle to an illegal intervention overseas. Don’t forget to get a pic of the loved ones in front of a lighthouse but don’t bother buying a lobster trap as a future coffee table.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:59 pmIs it my imagination or did we lose some trolls today?
I was on earlier and thought I was watching a monkey shit-throwing show here!
Comment by upside00
TP is diong a little waking up of it’s own. :)
July 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pmIs it my imagination or did we lose some trolls today?
I was on earlier and thought I was watching a monkey shit-throwing show here!
Comment by upside00
The trolls are hibernating. Waiting for the winter frost to warm the cockells of their harts from the absolute zero they stay at. Either that or our resident troll is too lazy to grace us with more personalities.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pm#55 veritas
July 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pmYou seem to be more “aware” of things spiritual than most of us — so perhaps you are the harbinger – the one to notice the first signs of awakening in this country, in particular. I think Melissa Etheridge said, we might put a sign on our cars “I’m awake” — I hope that you are correct, I hope that people begin to waken from their slumber whether it is from the passivity regarding environmental concerns or from the recognition of the great damage done to our country by the current administration.
Egregious: Arlan Specter’s an “actor”, plain and simple. And a D level actor at that! His “schtick” is really getting old (just like him)!
July 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pmSpecter is actually Dick and George’s “opening act”. He pretends to be tough and against what he knows they’ve done – he effectively “pimps” the american people into trusting him – and then he one/two punches everyone by knuckling under when the time comes. He needs to develop a new repertoire soon – americans are getting sick and tired of his predictable schtick.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:01 pmVeritas, you may be right but wouldn’t it be great if the Repugs are actually eating their own. Then we could be in the final throes of the BushCo insurgency!
July 8th, 2007 at 7:04 pmHey, Marie! As Melissa said proudly yesterday “we’re awake” and we now are. Yesterday awakened us from the sleep of deceit we’ve been oppressed with for the past 6 years. It’s given people “hope” once again. And, I suspect that the Bush Cabal is also now realizing that the people plan to take over their government from their incapable hands now.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:04 pmComment by Sluggo — July 8, 2007 @ 6:49 pm
Sluggo, I hope that you’re correct on this. I have mixed feelings about Specter. He’s given me hope only to dash that hope too many times.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:05 pmYesterday WAS the beginning of the “end of the final throes of the Bush Insurgency”.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:05 pmSorry to go off-topic, but Raw Story has reported that Cindy Sheehan is threatening to run in Pelosi’s district if she refuses to impeach Bush and Cheney.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:06 pmTP commenters!
I’ve just had an email exchange with Faiz about the chaos around here, and here’s what he said:
When I expressed concern that TP was losing good people over this problem, he said:
I expect to see some sort of registration within the next couple of months. If nothing materializes, I’ll just leave it to the trolls.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:08 pmPee and m12 are still hanging out in the previous thread. Everybody whisper so they don’t find us here.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:11 pm67. Comment by Marie
Though I undertand your point, I would like to add that signs and drum circles and threads and monthly meetings are not going to change this.
People felt a great shift in the late 60’s and early 70’s. the civil right’s movement; vietnam. But the change occured when people were willing to put themselves out there; to gather and then to resist. white black red yellow, all people. The vietnam war end started with Cat Stevens, but it was the Pentagon Papers, and Gravel filabustering for 5 months and a small publishing house that printed the papers.
Revolution is dirty and painful. it’s not a bumber sticker or a weekend retreat. We need to recognize that. I need to recognize that. People gave their lives for civil rights.
This administration is pushing the Congress all the way, and if they fail, there is only one hurdle between them and the coporatistic state they dream of. And that is us.
I don’t mean to be dismissive, at all. This is more my stream of conciousness (spelling sucks) than a rant. But I know this. i have to do more. i can’t wait and say later “It’s Pelosi’s fault”. I just can’t
July 8th, 2007 at 7:11 pmGlad to hear it, Zooey. At least they seem to have successfully banned ‘freedomrings’, which is a good start.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:11 pmYea, Zooey!
July 8th, 2007 at 7:12 pmComment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Thanks, Zooey. I sent them a message telling them that I was ready to do just that – leave TP to the trolls. There has to be a place we can go where there are fewer immature children, lame disruptive posts, and death threats. I’ll probably at least lurk for a bit, but that will just be to see if the situation improves. Otherwise, I have more enjoyable ways to spend my time, like working on my blog during the time I would otherwise waste on acerebralist trolls. [Don't worry, you know a few ways to get a message to me.]
Good luck with all that, Faiz. Write to me when your techies figure out how to do what many other blogs routinely do. You can send me an e-mail telling me how to register to post comments at TP.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:16 pmWasn’t it you and Wayne he threateed, jane? He needed to be banned for that.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:16 pmthat would be threatened, i think
July 8th, 2007 at 7:18 pmIndeed, I too, have become a snitch, and requested to have the disgusting remarks that were not post by me about Coulter removed.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:18 pmComment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Yep. I really don’t know why, other than the obvious mental illness.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:19 pmi can’t wait and say later “It’s Pelosi’s faultâ€. I just can’t
Comment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
You are right, of course. We seem to be coming closer to the tipping point, where enough people lose all faith in the “traditional,” “comfortable,” and “civilized” methods of effecting justice, and make their voices heard one way or another. I wait for our elective representatives to do the right thing … but how much longer?
July 8th, 2007 at 7:20 pmComment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Actually, I think he was banned for ‘threateeing’ us, too. ;-)
July 8th, 2007 at 7:20 pmActually, I think he was banned for ‘threateeing’ us, too. ;-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
It’s a word. At fox News. they have their own language
July 8th, 2007 at 7:21 pmThe issue with Specter:
Do I think Specter has ethics? No. But I do think he is has political instincts. Unless you are completely brain-dead (and there are some of those in the Republican party today) you have to understand that Bush and his Gang are in serious trouble. His continuing refusal to allow people to testify before the Senate, the fact that Impeachment is being talked about, and the fact that pollsters are now asking the American people “should Bush and Chaney be impeached” are clear signs that Bush is driving the Republican party over a cliff.
Specter, and a lot of other old-time Republican politicians, know this and I am sure their fondest dream is to have Bush and Chaney resign. They can live with Nancy for a few months and in the mean time start working on the 08 elections (the Presidential elections are lost, but they can still minimize the damage to the House and Senate).
An Impeachment trial would REALLY damage the Republicans, so the best course is resignation. By having Fitzgerald testify and lay out how Chaney was behind the leaks Bush would be in a very bad situation. At this point I am sure a group of powerful Republican Congressmen would have a quite talk with Bush and have him get rid of Chaney and then keep his own mouth shut for the next few months.
If I am right, you will see some other powerful Senate and House Republicans getting behind some of these hearings but casting their support as “geting to the bottom of these attacks on the President”. Once you get anyone of the Bush gang on the stand, the President has a real problem.
Wait and see…
July 8th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThanks all, I’m just sorry I waited so long.
I think Faiz knows that we’ve about had it. Having an open comments section is a great idea, and it’s one of the things that attracted me to this blog, but as TP has become more well known open comments has become a nightmare.
Wayne, I’ll miss you here, but I’ll check in often at your blog, and there’s always facebook. Just remember, TP is like crack. :)
July 8th, 2007 at 7:24 pmI just started commenting here myself, though I’ve been a long-time reader. Comments aside, I think TP does a great job presenting the news I need to be aware of. I commend the site for this. And I don’t mind a little trolling here and there, sometimes it can be fun. But it has been a bit much the past couple of days. It’s the spamming and hijacking that are especially annoying.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:25 pmIndeed, I too, have become a snitch, and requested to have the disgusting remarks that were not post by me about Coulter removed.
Comment by Mr. President
Please don’t attempt to act like you’re better than any of us, troll.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:26 pmGlad to hear it, Zooey. At least they seem to have successfully banned ‘freedomrings’, which is a good start.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
And that whackjob “Fed the Fcuk Up.” Yikes.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:27 pmI expect to see some sort of registration within the next couple of months. If nothing materializes, I’ll just leave it to the trolls.
Comment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Don’t hold your breath!! I provided Faiz, by his own request after my complaints, a list of simple things the “tech staff” could do to fix a few things with the site…Hell, things got worst after that!!!
Faiz is either a fake TP power broker or a lying staff member. I expect NOTHING from Faiz!!! Pissing in the wind is more productive than converstations with Faiz!!!
I’m now Faized out!! Later!!
July 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pmIndeed, I too, have become a snitch, and requested to have the disgusting remarks that were not post by me about Coulter removed.
Comment by Mr. President
disgusting, Coulter
Redundancy
July 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pm….
not “quite” but “quiet”
ignore the grammar but understand the point
July 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pm85. Comment by Egreggious
Some times I wonder what “Civilized Methods” are. Terrorism is not/ “Shock and Awe” is?
Would Martin L. King Jr. have been successful without Malcom X and the Black Panthers? boston Tea Party, American Revolution, Minute Men and their Gorilla Tactics of the day of using the trees as cover as the Red Coats stood in formation?
I am begining to think that success determines Civility by writing the history that describes it. Were you taught that we had to drop the “A” bombs because the Japanese wouldn’t surrender and a Million more would die? I was.
Too bad they were trying to surrender after the Fire Bombing of Japan for 45 days.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:28 pm“Wayne, I’ll miss you here, but I’ll check in often at your blog, and there’s always facebook. Just remember, TP is like crack. :)”
Comment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
Again, I ask, what am I, chopped liver? ;-)
July 8th, 2007 at 7:29 pm#77 willyloman — I am with you. It certainly will take more than just wishing it were so.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:29 pmI vividly recall the Viet Nam era and I saw how long it took, how much was risked, how so many people devoted so much effort.
I don’t know if we are the same any more — in that era, everyone knew someone in the war, everyone was affected; there was a political upheaval socially and politically. Today, our society seems more detached, more unaffected, more self-centered — and that may be part of the reason why this has gone on so long.
Could we even have a “Pentagon Papers” today? What newspaper would take the risk – if there were a brave soul willing to expose secrets? We have seen what has happened to whistleblowers in this government.
I fear that the revolution of which you speak may have to happen in order to turn this around to the right direction, and, I agree, that revolution is painful.
I am begining to think that success determines Civility by writing the history that describes it.
Comment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
How Machiavellian! Kristol would love it.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:35 pmAgain, I ask, what am I, chopped liver? ;-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Well, I didn’t think Wayne could make you stay away! I doubt he’d try!
Are you leaving us as well? :(
July 8th, 2007 at 7:37 pmI fear that the revolution of which you speak may have to happen in order to turn this around to the right direction, and, I agree, that revolution is painful.
Comment by Marie
you and Veritas spoke earlier about a shift. Someone on another thread wondered if the administration was “outside the law” and free from it’s grasp.
The first part of any revolution any change, is that shift. And in this case, as was the case then, it is a determination that no one is out side our law. Look at the Live Earth concerts yesterday. I heard as many comments about Geo Political policy as I did about Global Warming. There is a peace movement a foot. I just wonder how we will get there.
Bono has his uses. So does Malcom X. Soon we will have to decide when to replace one with the other.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:39 pmI expect to see some sort of registration within the next couple of months. If nothing materializes, I’ll just leave it to the trolls.
Comment by Zooey
I imagine this was an actual e-mail exchange? I get no response from TP at all. Some months back, I got a “we’ll get right back to you on that” and then nothing. When I mentioned today that they’re in grave danger of losing a lot of commenters because of the trollirrea, I got bupkis.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:44 pmGood work today, Zooey.
Talk with you all later.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:44 pmHow Machiavellian! Kristol would love it.
Comment by Egreggious
really? I was hoping for more… Marcus Aurelius. but i can see the connection. Don’t think I have ever been compared to Kristol though.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:44 pmThat is new.
“Are you leaving us as well? :(”
Comment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Good lord, no, I’m well and thoroughly addicted!:D
July 8th, 2007 at 7:52 pmGood lord, no, I’m well and thoroughly addicted!:D
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Me too. Especially since my tv got fried by lighting. No more Countdown! Weeeep weeeeeep weeeeep
July 8th, 2007 at 7:54 pmI expect to see some sort of registration within the next couple of months. If nothing materializes, I’ll just leave it to the trolls.
Comment by Zooey
Yeah, hate to say it, but I have been thinking the same thing for the last couple months. Some days it’s so bad I just browse the articles and forget about posting =P
July 8th, 2007 at 7:58 pm“Me too. Especially since my tv got fried by lighting. No more Countdown! Weeeep weeeeeep weeeeep”
Comment by willyloman — July 8, 2007 @ 7:54 pm
Is that why we’re seeing so much of you? No more Countdown? That’s…that’s…HORRIBLE! Come to NY, we can probably spare you one of our TVs! :D
July 8th, 2007 at 7:59 pmIn the meantime, willyloman, can I lure you away for some new pictures on the old blogstead?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:00 pmI imagine this was an actual e-mail exchange? I get no response from TP at all. Some months back, I got a “we’ll get right back to you on that†and then nothing. When I mentioned today that they’re in grave danger of losing a lot of commenters because of the trollirrea, I got bupkis.
Comment by gummitch
Yes, an actual email exchange with Faiz. Like I told willyloman on another thread, I started by sending the hijacked name things to TP with the “Contact Us” button. Zip. Then I started sending them to Faiz directly. That’s when I heard from TP that the hijacker was banned, and a little later I heard from Faiz.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:02 pmPlease don’t attempt to act like you’re better than any of us, troll.
Comment by Zooey — July 8, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
—————————————————————————————
I’m not acting like I am better, but rather… I am acting like I am… one… of you.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:03 pmIn the meantime, willyloman, can I lure you away for some new pictures on the old blogstead?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
as soon as I get back from the Cheze Pufe run.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:05 pmYeah, hate to say it, but I have been thinking the same thing for the last couple months. Some days it’s so bad I just browse the articles and forget about posting =P
Comment by Wayne
I have days where I comment very little. Not lately, of course. :}
July 8th, 2007 at 8:06 pmI’m not acting like I am better, but rather… I am acting like I am… one… of you.
Comment by Mr. President
You’ll understand if I’m a bit skeptical of that, won’t you?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:08 pmI’ll wait and see.
Willyloman, Wayne, Jane, etc……greetings! I’ve had a very busy day and have guests so I can’t be on very long (sneaking away to indulge my addiction, as many of you have likewise alluded)…LOL.
About the “shift”. I believe what we witnessed and some of us actually and quite literally “felt” during the concerts was what is called a “paradigm shift”. Perhaps the collision of the concert and a new nadir among the people in terms of the sense of oppression inflicted upon us by this capricious administration….who knows but many of my contemporaries and I have discussed this last evening and today and there are many folks reporting in about their experiencing this shift. Many of you have also.
Collective consciousness and critical mass is what’s occurring right now….and it’s moving like a tsunami toward 1600 Pennyslvania Avenue. Although it will move on it’s own, the more meditation on “peace” and “unity”, the more the exponential growth of the movement.
I believe that the news this morning about Kucinich’s committee reopening 911 is indicative of the beginning of this massive shift in consciousness. After all, when one hears daily the litany of known offenses and wrongdoing coupled with their continuation of attempts at exonerating this criminal behavior, we know it’s either the end of this country or a rebirth on the horizon. And since, like darkness/light and perhaps peace/war, the fact that “evil” is simply the “absence of good” may be turning around for this country – with more individuals joining in the collective “good” of each other, our descendants, and the life of Planet Earth. Perhaps this abundance of focus on “good” has simultaneously become a renewed focus on “peace” which can only lead to prosperity in the long run for all.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:09 pmSUBPOENA them ALL and show the TREASON that has occurred by the CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION of MURDERER BUSH the TRAITOR coxucker PUNK
July 8th, 2007 at 8:16 pmZooey: Kudos my friend for bringing this troll problem to the attention of TP. I would hate to see intelligent, concerned americans turned away by some of the nonsense that these trolls engage is on these threads. It’s so critical that we have a forum in which to dialogue and connect with each other – with kindred spirits and it would be a travesty for that to be ruined by nonsensical troll blather.
If anyone would have a problem with a legitimate registration process which includes their real names, then they probably shouldn’t be posting here.
I wholeheartedly support any mechanism which TP believes would help to improve the integrity of these threads. I don’t read the troll posts (of the ones I know) but it’s time consuming to often scroll past the often-volumes of troll posts on these threads. It’s become an exercise in frustration and many of us have exciting lives other than sitting at a computer fighting with people who either pretend to be ignorant or actually are.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:16 pmveritas,
Truthfully, I felt this shift on the day I found out about Bush commuting Libby’s sentence. I could have jumped for joy when I saw that.
And then again yesterday when it was revealed that the White House was instructing Sara Taylor not to testify at her hearing on 7/11.
Add in the shift felt by many during the concerts yesterday, and I think we have created a bit of momentum.
I’ll re-post this by Briseadh na Faire:
July 8th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
“…many of us have exciting lives other than sitting at a computer fighting with people who either pretend to be ignorant or actually are.”
Comment by veritas — July 8, 2007 @ 8:16 pm
We do?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:18 pmComment by veritas — July 8, 2007 @ 8:16 pm
Thanks, veritas.
It’s become more of a problem than it has been before, and the anger of the TP commenters was boiling over. Then add in rampant name hijacking, and it’s just too much.
I hope Faiz follows through…
July 8th, 2007 at 8:19 pmWe do?
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
**snort**
That was my next question!! :}
Waaaahhh!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:20 pmOff topic but definitely provocative:
http://www.smirkingchimp.co
Al Gore is definitely the new “global hero” now. I know he can save the planet but can he save this country??? Or more appropriately, will he???
July 8th, 2007 at 8:21 pm115. veritas.
it is said that the neoCons and the Islamists both formented in the same time as a reaction to the liberal movement post WWII during the 50’s. (Power of Nightmares for one source)
They both percieved a failing of the Liberal movement to control the population adiquately. I see it differently. The conflict this country went through was a direct result of Viet Nam and oppressive civil rights injustices and both were in fact corrected by the liberal movement.
Since that time, the Communist Enemy and the War of Terror have combined to surpress the natural desire of democracy to move toward a more liberal state.
the liberal agenda could work and has worked in the past. And I think you are right, there is a swell of empathy toward our fellow man driven by a new found recognition of our responcibility to one another.
But Marcus Aurelius, known as a benevolent and peaceful Cesar also was embroiled in conflict for most of his reign. Sometimes the right thing to do must be forced upon those who would not yield.
I know that if this new move by Kucinich is successful, then Cheney will push us into Iran before allowing it all to crumble when he is so close.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:21 pmhttp://www.smirkingchimp.com – Draft Al Gore
mea culpa for the typo!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:22 pm#118 What you, obviously, felt was the opening in the River of Styxx which will devour you and your cohorts never to be heard from again.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pmwillyloman: I’ve read a good deal of Marcus Aurelius and I see your point. However, the wave of intolerance for this level of corruption is larger than Dick Cheney and the entire Bush Cabal combined. That was made clear yesterday. More occurred yesterday in the brief span of 24 hours than we can possibly imagine….
July 8th, 2007 at 8:26 pmSorry Zooey! I was responding to the Brisenf*cking troll and not you…..good whackdown of that idiot, though.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:27 pmPerhaps Ms Bresnafaire needs to check her underwear for skid marks, too??
July 8th, 2007 at 8:28 pmSorry Zooey! I was responding to the Brisenf*cking troll and not you…..good whackdown of that idiot, though.
Comment by veritas
What are you talking about?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:28 pmCheney’s going to need to take massive doses of viagara soon with his new level of impotency over the masses now.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:29 pmI see what you mean about name hijacking.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:31 pmveritas,
Are you saying you think Briseadh na Faire is a troll?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:32 pmZooey,
I’ve been e-mailing about hijacking on the other thread… again.
They are back!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:33 pmHowever, the wave of intolerance for this level of corruption is larger than Dick Cheney and the entire Bush Cabal combined. That was made clear yesterday. More occurred yesterday in the brief span of 24 hours than we can possibly imagine….
Comment by veritas
Agreed. But is Cheney the head of the snake? Or is he their Mr.President? this was formented by the Reagan Doctrine, long before Bush. And I think it reaches into those leaders in Europe, Spain, Mexico, G.E., Lockheed Martin, Goldman Sachs, South America, Russia, et al.
An election? A vote? No. i am less optimistic. this is greed and lust for power. And I don’t think that goes away with a ballot or a pen.
So I hope you are right. I hope it is larger than Cheney and Bush. Because it almost has to rise to a level of an evolutionary change in the structure of man to weed out what is already infected out there.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:34 pmsee what happens when we start some kind of quality discourse? Someone starts the highjacking again. very pathetic.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:38 pmHere’s Faiz’s email address:
FShakir@americanprogress.org
If you see any further comments by me this evening, you can assume my name as been hijacked.
I’ve had it. Goodnight, everyone.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:40 pmthanks zooey,
good night
July 8th, 2007 at 8:41 pmWillyloman: What has taken 6 short years to accomplish with it’s insidious tenacles wrapped around places we can’t even imagine in our wildest of dreams will take a disproportionately lengthier time to undo. At this point, I personally can’t imagine anyone who views themselves as capable of undoing all of the damage done nationally, constitutionally, and ethically….not to mention a more serious threat to our survival – our international reputation. This has been sadistically and perhaps irreparably damaged at this point. One thing is certain – if the draft Gore movement gets some traction, this man IS capable of commanding the respect of people across the planet for the yeoman’s work he’s already accomplishing…. which is certainly a better vantage point than any other candidates on the radar presently.
Whether this nadir of corruption has made an indellible, evolutionary imprint already will remain to be seen.
The people now have a new form of hope and as we all know, the human spirit is indominable and hope is what keeps it afloat in times such as these.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:41 pmZooey: Sorry I misunderstood the comment in my hurry to get back to my guests. Hope I didn’t step on any toes in my haste.
Peace to all TP buddies!
July 8th, 2007 at 8:42 pmGoodnight, Zooey! :-(
Okay, so who else here is really who they say they are? When my name got hijacked during the 5000+ thread and a Keith Olbermann thread, they just typed “Jane E. Schneider” without it being a link. Now people are hijacking linked names? I realize that most of us will recognize that a fake is a fake, but who wants to read a thread whose posts consist of “Huh?” and “WTF are you talking about?” “That wasn’t me!” “Roger, Rodger, what’s our vector, Victor, how’s our clearance, Clarence…huh? huh?” was funny in Airplane!, but not here.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:48 pmJane,
I just came back to turn off the computer, and it looks like veritas was simply in a big f*cking rush and decided to shit all over my friend.
Now it’s just “oops!” and “Peace!”
Jesus f*cking christ….
I’m not in the mood for this tonight. Goodnight, Jane.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:54 pmspector is toast… the bush toady
July 8th, 2007 at 9:03 pmSheehan considers challenge to Pelosi:
Associated Press
1 hour, 39 minutes ago
CRAWFORD, Texas – Cindy Sheehan, the soldier’s mother who galvanized the anti-war movement, said Sunday that she plans to seek House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s congressional seat unless she introduces articles of impeachment against President Bush in the next two weeks.
ADVERTISEMENT: Impeach Bush/Cheney NOW!
Sheehan said she will run against the San Francisco Democrat in 2008 as an independent if Pelosi does not seek by July 23 to impeach Bush. That’s when Sheehan and her supporters are to arrive in Washington, D.C., after a 13-day caravan and walking tour starting next week from the group’s war protest site near Bush’s Crawford ranch.
“Democrats and Americans feel betrayed by the Democratic leadership,” Sheehan told The Associated Press. “We hired them to bring an end to the war. I’m not too far from San Francisco, so it wouldn’t be too big of a move for me. I would give her a run for her money.”
Messages left with Pelosi’s staff were not immediately returned. The White House declined to comment on Sheehan’s plans.
She plans her official candidacy announcement Tuesday. Sunday wrapped up what is expected to be her final weekend at the 5-acre Crawford lot that she sold to California radio talk show host Bree Walker, who plans to keep it open to protesters.
Sheehan announced in late May that she was leaving the anti-war movement. She said that she felt her efforts had been in vain and that she had endured smear tactics and hatred from the left, as well as the right. She said she wanted to change course.
She first came to Crawford in August 2005 during a Bush vacation, demanding to talk to him about the war that killed her son Casey in 2004. She became the face of the anti-war movement during her 26-day roadside vigil, which was joined by thousands. But it also drew counter-protests by Bush supporters, many who said she was hurting troop morale.
Sheehan, who has never held political office, recently said that she was leaving the Democratic Party because it “caved” in to the president. Last week, she announced her caravan to Washington, an undertaking she calls the “people’s accountability movement.”
July 8th, 2007 at 9:23 pmWoman jailed for ‘neglected’ lawn:
A 70-year-old US woman has been left bruised and bloody after an unexpected clash with police who came to arrest her because her lawn was dry and brown. Trouble flared when Utah pensioner Betty Perry, 70, refused to give her name to an officer trying to caution her for not watering her lawn.
She says the officer hit her with handcuffs, cutting her nose, although police insist she slipped and fell. Ms Perry said she was “distraught” after the incident. “He’s just trying to cover his tracks, as far as I’m concerned” She denied that she was resisting arrest, maintaining that she turned to go inside to call her son to fix the confusing dispute.
“I tried to sit down and get away from him,” she told Utah newspaper the Daily Herald. “I don’t know what he’s doing. I said: ‘What are you doing?’ And he hit me with those handcuffs in my face,” she said.
ADVERTISEMENT: Anna Nicole Smith is still dead. Topic on O’Really?
The officer had judged that Ms Perry’s “sadly neglected and dying landscape” breached an Orem city guideline and was attempting to issue a formal caution when the 70-year-old was injured.
She was treated in a local hospital for the cut to her nose and for other bruises before being taken to jail. But she was let go when police realised there were “other ways” of finding out her identity without taking her to jail, a police spokesman said.
The arresting officer has not been named but has been placed on administrative leave, he added. Ms Perry, who says she has never had a run-in with police in the past, has been offered help by local church leaders to clean up her garden. “I’m very distraught over all this,” she said. “I can’t believe this happened. Do you ever just wish you could start your day over and it would all be different?”
July 8th, 2007 at 9:35 pmMaybe we can get some answers.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:02 pmLooks like Troll spam to me.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:21 pm#
Hey Leahy,
Go Fukc Yourself!
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
First, please show how it is anatomically possible, Prezdimwit.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:22 pmWhere is the drunk Zoeey?
July 8th, 2007 at 10:56 pmWhat’s next boozer?
Okay, so who else here is really who they say they are? When my name got hijacked during the 5000+ thread and a Keith Olbermann thread, they just typed “Jane E. Schneider†without it being a link. Now people are hijacking linked names? I realize that most of us will recognize that a fake is a fake, but who wants to read a thread whose posts consist of “Huh?†and “WTF are you talking about?†“That wasn’t me!†“Roger, Rodger, what’s our vector, Victor, how’s our clearance, Clarence…huh? huh?†was funny in Airplane!, but not here.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 8, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
Yes, they are now hijacking names and putting the proper links in. I suppose I should not have pointed out that it is obvious when they do that.
I’ve e-mailed TP. I’ll e-mail Faiz as well. I’m with the bulk of you, however, and will start using TP as a mere link to important stories, but will skip the basically useless comments section. Why should I bother to post anything on this site if the admins allow the trolls complete and free-reign to do anything they want? They switch names and hijack names as the norm, not some occasional prank. They have conversations with themselves to back up their own claims, or pat each other on the back.
I won’t blame the trolls, however, if this site ultimately fails due to the pathetic posting “policy”. The fault for this current infestation of a small handful of trolls derailing every conversation that occurs on this site lies solely at the feet of Think Progress. If they’d but implement the ‘Net standard, most basic of requirements for most sites with a comments sections (registration), the troll problem as it currently exists would all-but disappear.
Don’t expect to see much more in the way of posts from me unless this problem is fixed. Like the Bush administration, these trolls have had free reign for so long, they grow bolder and more arrogant in their posting content and habits alike. Until the choke chain is yanked, and these yahoos are put in their place and taught a lesson, they will not stop.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:01 pmFlaco,
I’m not saying that I think you have ever used someone else’s name, but their has been a problem with people’s names being stolen today.
I emailed Faiz about a couple of them on the other thread, he erased them and told me that the persons IP address would be banned, but that he was pretty sure the person would be back.
I just wanted to let you know what has happened today.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:01 pmThey have conversations with themselves to back up their own claims, or pat each other on the back.
Comment by Moderation — July 8, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
And what this means, is not that the trolls each pat one another on the back (although that also occurs). Rather, one troll will post back and forth to HIMSELF to make it seem like there are more on his side than their really are, or to gang up on a specific post or poster. One person, multiple identities, one agenda, multiple vectors of implementation.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:04 pmMr President got a popsicle? Oh no! Better hide the onion rings!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:10 pm(Rattle Rattle)
What’s next boozer?
Comment by Flaco — July 8, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
Try looking in the mirror, KoolAid drinker, Flakehead.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:10 pmIt’s unfortunate, Moderation, that it has come to this. But you are right. Their little game has come to an end. Registration is needed here to keep these guys from multi posting to support their own silly claims. But in the end, it is the fault of TP.
This place is a Ghost town.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:12 pmIP address would be banned, but that he was pretty sure the person would be back. I just wanted to let you know what has happened today.
Comment by Mr. President
If they were using a dial-up account they would get a different IP number each time (dynamic address) Mr President. Even with a static IP address it’s possible to release and renew the addy thru DHCP tools (such as winipcfg) =)
July 8th, 2007 at 11:17 pmSee you all over at KOS. Handle chanbo
July 8th, 2007 at 11:18 pmHey! I couldn’t even get the ” Æ ” dipthong to work on my handle when I was GAIVS IVLIVS CÆSAR OCTAVIANVS, and you got a full name in Greek!
What gives?
July 8th, 2007 at 11:22 pmComment by Moderation — July 8, 2007 @ 11:01 pm
I hope to still see you here sometimes, your posts are always excellent, well-thought-out, well-written, and stirring. I truly hope that the TP regulars will come back in full strength once the trash has been taken out. You will be missed!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:22 pmSee you, RUCerious!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:23 pmComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 8, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
I was just saying what Faiz told me, I don’t know how those things work. I do know that since I have not used anyone else’s name, I have nothing to worry about.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:25 pmThis place is a Ghost town. Comment by willyloman
Even if they started registration people would be able to create email addresses on Yahoo or many other sites. I notice the people on Atrios [Eschaton] blog have started using gravatars (an image you selected) that appears next to your moniker to keep from being namejacked. I don’t know if Wordpress (TP blogware) can do that.
http://site.gravatar.com/signup
I don’t know where this investigation is going. Armitage has supposedly admitted to such a thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to repeat an agents name. Right?
July 8th, 2007 at 11:28 pmComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 8, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
With me being a total idiot when it comes to computers, I have to say that your comment was as Greek to me as your name.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:29 pmHey Jane, I still might do some lurking here, but until TP figures out a way to enhance the quality of the conversation through some limiting mechanism (KOS’s is excellent, a designation of trusted user that confers the power of troll banning), I won’t be posting much here.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:32 pmI do know that since I have not used anyone else’s name, I have nothing to worry about. Comment by Mr. President
Nor me, in fact I didn’t even wake up until 8pm =) I do however like to change names, but leave hints. Ichthus (fish) is just pointer to Vesica Pisces (Piscean=) Pisces Hori or maybe Pi Cot Orion even.
Heh.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:34 pm“I don’t know where this investigation is going. Armitage has supposedly admitted to such a thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to repeat an agents name. Right?”
Comment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 8, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Right! And, since it was Libby who told Armitage, who was known (by everyone in the Washington inner circles, apparently) as a ‘notorious gossip’, Plame’s name was sure to be bandied about sooner or later. What a bunch of traitors we have in this administration!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:35 pmWith me being a total idiot when it comes to computers, I have to say that your comment was as Greek to me as your name.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
If you see the images by peoples names over at Atrios’ Eschaton blog thats an Gravatar assigned to your hidden email address. atrios.blogspot.com they use it to thwart the namejackers =)
July 8th, 2007 at 11:38 pmComment by RUCerious — July 8, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
We’ll miss you, too. Of course, you know where to find Wayne and I, even if it’s not here on TP. :D
July 8th, 2007 at 11:38 pmDo these guys do ANYTHING execept launch investigations? This is getting to be as ridiculous as the Starr investigation.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:39 pmCome to think of it, I haven’t read Waynesbrain Jane. Guess I’ll ‘punch it up’ and take a gander =)
July 8th, 2007 at 11:44 pmActually, I had already wondered if “ΙΧΘΥΣ” had something to do with fish, especially after having seen ‘piscean’ earlier.
I did more or less understand the Gravatar image bit, it’s all of the IP addresses that people can create that I don’t really get. I’ve been having a hard enough time getting into my new email account!
July 8th, 2007 at 11:44 pmComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 8, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
Yeah, I like to leave clues as well…
“Mr. President” or maybe Julius Caesar, or Primus Inter Pares (the title of Octavian), I’ve been St. Augustin of PiPpo… that kind of thing, I assume people know it is me when they see a completely jackass moniker (maybe with “V”s instead of “U”s)… heheheh…
July 8th, 2007 at 11:47 pmComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 8, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
You’re welcome at the old blogstead any time. You can skip the cats if you want to, Wayne’s brain is much more interesting.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:47 pm” I assume people know it is me when they see a completely jackass moniker (maybe with “Vâ€s instead of “Uâ€s)… heheheh…”
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
Or they recognize your scent ;-)
July 8th, 2007 at 11:49 pmJane,
Yup. That’s a dead give away too.
July 8th, 2007 at 11:51 pmhey all… i’ve got to say, this latest round was truly annoying, but i’ve seen worse… it comes and goes in spurts, and when it rains it pours…
(any other cliches come to mind?)
and, sure, TP could help some, with registration, i guess…
but, myself, i don’t see that as the problem…
the problem that i see are the troll feeders…
the school yard back’n'forth bullshit inane stoopid na na na boo boo…
i love a good retort and the obligatory factual response,
but so – too – often the replies devolve into immature sounding blather…
i come here to learn, to vent, to ask questions, post things i hope are
interesting and important to others…
i hate it when it gets dumbed down to the idjit level…
i say, the progressives and truth seekers here should exert better control and reject the urge to argue with the 2yr-olds and/or brick-walls that visit… their comments usually speak for themselves… and there are ways to set the record straight without even directly addressing the troolls…
July 9th, 2007 at 12:03 amremember the saying, “i won’t dignify that with an answer”…
i wish more would abide by that…
yea, i know – good luck with that…
…
“remember the saying, “i won’t dignify that with an answerâ€â€¦
i wish more would abide by that…
yea, i know – good luck with that…”…
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 12:03 am
I know, katy, but you have to admit it’s hard to resist troll-whacking sometimes. Plus, I keep thinking about how, in the 2004 elections, Kerry didn’t dignify the Swift-Boaters with an answer until it was waaaay too late.
I’m heading for bed now, goodnight Katy and anyone else in this “ghost town.”
July 9th, 2007 at 12:07 amMr President…
Do you have a life outside of TP posting? Your posts are everywhere all the time it seems. If you’re not getting paid for this something’s wrong. Seriously dude- Go outside and get a little human contact.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:13 amBTW…this is newsworthy.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_el_ho/cindy_sheehan_pelosi;_ylt=AsEN2kwU444pInUJsqMyhcms0NUE
July 9th, 2007 at 12:15 amDo these guys do ANYTHING execept launch investigations? This is getting to be as ridiculous as the Starr investigation.
Comment by Tracy — July 8, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
Do you mean to tell us that you protested the Starr investigation or Dan Burton’s several go-nowhere investigations of Clinton, including of his cat and his Christmas card list?
July 9th, 2007 at 12:20 amIf not, then STFU, boy; your party no longer controls Congress.
Or they recognize your scent ;-)
Comment by Jane E. Schneider
Trolls stench is as recognizable as skunk.
Great pictures of the kittens Jane. Thanks so much.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:24 amremember the saying, “i won’t dignify that with an answerâ€â€¦
i wish more would abide by that…
yea, i know – good luck with that…
…
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 12:03 am
I wish that were true, but with this particular “batch” of trolls, if you ignore them, they turn into super-spam-bots. Like, serious, reposting the same huge cut and paste crap dozens of times in a row on every thread that pops up, under multiple names, super-spam-bots. They have certain modus operandi that they exhibit. They cut and paste specific refutations to any post. If engaged in a manner they are unable to reply to with a cogent argument, they immediately throw up a series of ad hominems and straw men to batter down.
Basically, there is absolutely no significant check on them, whether or not you ignore them. If you do engage someone who seems to be attempting some sort of legitimate beginnings of a reasonable discussion, one of two things occurs: 1) They new person turns out to be an alternate personality for a troll who then responds with the same lame, tired, used-up old cut and paste talking points; or 2) The trolls resort to all of the aforementioned tactics to derail the discussion, including but not limited to mass-spam tactics to force everyone to skip past 75% or more of the content in each thread’s comment section.
Now, let it not be said that I am innocent of engaging the trolls. I have indeed attempted the certain verbal smackdown on more than one occasion. But still, the troll situation is (and has been for quite some time now) completely out of hand.
It really is a testament to you trolls, however. One or two people of you can completely destroy the comments section on a thread of a major website, if said site has no measures built in to stop you. I am absolutely certain that there are no more than five or six regular trolls on this site. I would actually lean more towards there being a mere three regular trolls switching identities constantly (with the right software help), and causing all of these problems.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:24 amI’ll admit, I can’t not respond to a Troll. The damn things _task_ me, and I find that overly irritating. Doubly so when I see the same inane tripe posted. Call it a character flaw. :) I’ll try to work on it.
However, denying trolls their more unfair techniques (namejacking, with this new variety of the hyperlink spoof), and at least it’ll be tolerable. I’m glad TP is taking notice and starting the process of slamming down on the trolls.
Oh, yeah. Mr. President, I love how you’re suddenly contrite. Much like the man you idolize, starting to feel the heat now? Gooood. Keep it on the straight and narrow, and we might yet make a respectable conservative out of you.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:29 amSomething to think about…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/06/AR2007070601993.html?nav=rss_print/outlook
July 9th, 2007 at 12:52 ami never said ignore them… here’s an excellent example of how to reply:
Do these guys do ANYTHING execept launch investigations? This is getting to be as ridiculous as the Starr investigation.
Comment by Tracy — July 8, 2007 @ 11:39 pm
Do you mean to tell us that you protested the Starr investigation or Dan Burton’s several go-nowhere investigations of Clinton, including of his cat and his Christmas card list?
If not, then STFU, boy; your party no longer controls Congress.
Comment by Lora — July 9, 2007 @ 12:20 am
…
just sayin’…
g’nite all…
July 9th, 2007 at 12:53 amoh – i almost forgot…
check out this video… bobby kennedy telling it like it is, kicking ass :
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/08/live-earth-concerts-rile-the-wingers/
such a pleasure to see and hear this kind of truth telling…
July 9th, 2007 at 1:03 ami sure worry about his safety though… and others…
seems all the good ones get wasted, somehow…
…
I’m all for a more regulated system. I find I spend too much time taking on the trolls. I think it’s important to counter their trash. However, I do find it pointless as clearly the trolls don’t change their views at all. And someone like m12 and Mr. P are certainly not going to change my mind on anything.
I think the registration process would cut down on the inane comments and lead to more serious discussion which would be very good for this site.
In the meantime, I’ll try to give the trolls the attention they deserve. I’ll ignore them.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:54 am#183 – I saw Bobby Kennedy speak at a Sierra Club meeting. He was incredible! His integrity and passion about the environment is overwhelming. Just a great guy!!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:57 amLeahy is abusing his power.
He is recklessly threatening innocent officials and citizens of the USA in order to smear his enemies’ characters, and to give himself a chance to put on an air of righteousness.
Leahy is using the American people.
When Leahy puts on another one of his usual performances (which we all witnessed during the Gonzales hearings) certain groups of Americans feel edified by a deluded sense of “good” being done. However, this is a strategic move on the part of Leahy, he knows nothing will come from these show trials. It just gives him a chance to exert his power over his followers, and offers him an opportunity to demonize his political opposition.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:48 amWe as Metaprogressive ™ Americans, must come together and
IMPEACH PATRICK LEAHY
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 2:48 am
Thanks for the laugh, Mr. Prezdimwit and a half a dozen other names.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:01 amLora,
Are you with me?
Let’s get rid of this guy Leahy!!
He is pure evil, you can see it in his eyes!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 3:04 amLora,
Let’s get this Leahy bast*rd before it is to late!!!
Are you with me?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:06 amAs for calling Scooter Libby to testify, Leahy said it was a dead end. “It would do no good to call Scooter Libby. His silence has been bought and paid for,†he said, referring to Bush’s commutation, “and he would just take the fifth.â€
This is extraordinary.
A U.S. senator second guessing what a witness might or might not say under oath. Leahy shrugs, caves in, without using the power of oversight to force a top senior aide to the President and Vice-President, a convicted perjurer and obstructor of justice, to say it in front of the American people.
Patrick Leahy needs to be retired by the people of Vermont, as do all Democrats who refuse to use every ounce of power they temporarily have to try to force this administration to comply with the law of the land.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:07 amRocco,
Don’t be fooled by the media.
Leahy is does not represent the people.
The show trials that you have seen have been scripted
and performed like any other sit-com.
Leahy is using his authority to distract the public
and skew the opinions of his political enemies!
LEAHY NEEDS TO GO!!!
Rocco,
Are you with me?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:11 amLora,
Let’s get this Leahy bast*rd before it is to(SIC) late!!!
Are you with me?
Comment by Mr. President
Can’t you read? Well, maybe I shouldn’t have even asked such a question, because the answer is rather obvious. Get a life and a brain, kid
July 9th, 2007 at 3:17 amLora,
If we do not stop this madman he will ruin the country!
He has a personal grudge against our honorable Vice President Cheney!
He must be stopped before it is too late!!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 3:20 amLEAHY NEEDS TO BE GIVEN THE BOOT!!!!!!!
The growing Metaprogressive ™ movement will one day play an important role in the US, nay, the world. Metaprogressive ™ can see throught the lies of the current corrupt officials, we know that Leahy is a fraud and that he is out for personal vengence.
Do not trust Patrick Leahy!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 3:23 amLEAHY MUST BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE!!!!
He has a personal grudge against our (dis)honorable Vice President Cheney!
Comment by Mr. President–July 9, 2007 @ 3:20 am
There, I corrected it for you, kiddo. Please take up your grievances with the voters of Vermont, which include one of my cousins and a few friends. But goodbye for now; I have other things to do for a while.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:31 amSpecter is another Bush mouthpiece. Another liar. Another traitor to this country.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:41 amAll Patriotic Americans!!!
I Implore You!!!
DO NOT LET THIS ROGUE SENATOR RUIN AMERICA!!!
PATRICK LEAHY MUST BE EXPELLED!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 3:43 amTRAITOR Bush is a MURDERER and a TREASONOUS coxucker PUNK who needs to be in JAIL with Cheney for their WAR CRIMES and GEOCIDE.
Until they DIE and God sends them to ETERNAL DAMNATION, where they BELONG
July 9th, 2007 at 3:45 amGood-bye Lora!
May the Metaprogressive ™ Movement Endure!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 3:45 amMr. Bush Goes To Hell,
I know that you agree that the dangerous Sen. Patrick Leahy must go, right?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:47 amExpell Leahy From the Senate Before He Ruins America!!!!
LONG LIVE THE METAPROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT ™
CHENEY 2008!!! †
July 9th, 2007 at 3:49 amYOU, like our other Mr President are full of shit.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:55 amTRAITOR Bush is a MURDERER and a TREASONOUS coxucker PUNK who needs to be in JAIL with Cheney for their WAR CRIMES and GENOCIDE.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:02 amMr. Bush Goes To Hell,
I know that you agree that the dangerous TREASONOUS Sen. Patrick Leahy must go, right?
July 9th, 2007 at 4:05 amExpell Leahy From the Senate Before He Ruins America!!!!
Bush is a TRAITOR who pardoned TRAITOR Libby, one of SEVEN Bush TRAITORS known to have leaked Valerie Plame’s identity for Cheney.
Just like Daddy Bush pardoned Orlando Bosch, an INTERNATIONAL TERRORIST,
as well as the Iran/Contra CRIMINALS to cover HIS and TRAITOR Reagan’s azzes.
When a Democratic president taked the helm in 2009, the Executive Order 13233 will be revoked, and Reagan’s and Bush 41’s TREASON
will be shown to the world, blocked by Bush 43 after September 11.
Burn in hell, Bush and Cheney, COXUCKER punk TRAITORS to the USA.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:09 amPerhaps they can determine who “ordered†the leak??
Comment by RUCerious — July 8, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
—————————————————————————————–
Nah. This is a show trail, like the Gonzales hearings. Nothing will come out of this.
Leahy is abusing his power to assert control over certain factions of Leftists, by appearing to be righteous. However, this is a mere pretense for his own political aspirations.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:02 amThis might help…I hope so…we NEED THE TRUTH OR DEMOCRACY IS DEAD!!!
Comment by dixie blood — July 8, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
—————————————————————————————
I agree, we need to force Leahy to confess his political agenda, until then he cannot be trusted.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:04 amExpell Leahy From the Senate Before He Ruins America!!!!
badmoonman, yeah, I am actually serious. If Fitz gets asked under oath certain questions, he would be required to answer if they didn’t violate attorney client privilege. Just hopin, that’s all.
Comment by RUCerious — July 8, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
—————————————————————————————
Well keep your hopes alive.
As I have already said, this is a show trail. Leahy knows that nothing will come from this, he is in it to further is own political agenda and to smear his enemies (e.g. Cheney).
July 9th, 2007 at 5:07 amExpell Leahy From the Senate Before He Ruins America!!!!
LONG LIVE THE METAPROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT ™
July 9th, 2007 at 5:10 amIdiot.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:11 amWhat?
Whatchu want mparker?
July 9th, 2007 at 5:14 amPlease let this be true. I’d love to see fitzgerald up there shooting right wing talking point after right wing talking point down in his very straight foward cogent way.
Comment by vrk — July 8, 2007 @ 5:59 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Exactly, like I have said above, these are mere show trials.
They have been scripted just like a prime-time television program. Leahy is in on it, in fact, he knows that nothing will come from these proceding!
Leahy merely wants to appear to be taking steps in what certain Leftist groups perceive to be a “good” direction. He is abusing his powers and he needs to be stopped. Don’t fall for his act, vrk, and spread the word:
DO NOT LET THIS ROGUE SENATOR RUIN AMERICA!!!
PATRICK LEAHY MUST BE EXPELLED!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 5:23 amZooey, RUCerious, williloman, the schneiders, unbelievable, sharon, moderation, and all the other highly appreciated serious commenters here.
I fully agree with your assessment of the state of TP. I like this blog, because of the openness, but now things have gone too far. Whenever I come upon a topic I scroll to the bottom, say my piece and after a short while leave again. I am missing many of your posts, just because I don’t have the time to filter through all the bs, and I came here particularly for your posts.
Some of the trolls even were pretty interesting at times. I had discussions with Jason M. Hendler before he fully deteriorated into a full blown mudslinger and I was interested in his point of view, although I was far from sharing it. I had a lengthy discussion with a dissenting opponent over at Jurassicpork’s Pottersville, where JP generously let me hijack one of his threads and spar with a guy called mace. A blog without dissent would bore me. And sometimes its even ok to veer off topic.
Even the occasional mudslinging and namecalling is fine. It clears the atmosphere, so to speak and we’re humans and love a good catty fight now and again. (Zooey, wasn’t it you who invented the “one handed typing”-expression? I almost choked from laughing.) So yes I like the witticisms, too.
But now the hijacked names and the flooding of the threads with inanities rob me of all that. Of the context of comment and answer, of many of your insights and of most of your wittier slurs.
Registration is necessary. I’ll write to Faiz as well.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:43 amMr. dumbass.
Time to repeat your line of bullshit again right?
July 9th, 2007 at 5:45 amJust what is your deal mparker?
July 9th, 2007 at 5:48 amMY DEAL?
Your a lying Jackass.
A very repetitive in CAPS lying jackass.
That’s your DEAL.
Supporting the bullshit lies of traitors.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:58 amI agree, we need to force Leahy to confess his political agenda, until then he cannot be trusted. Expell Leahy From the Senate Before He Ruins America!!!! Comment by Mr. President
Just by your last few posts you undermine your own argument.
You don’t want Gonzo forced to confess his political agenda so America won’t be saved – yet Leahy must be forced to confess his political agenda to save America.
Thats like saying, Mr P, we need to force football team A to confess it’s game plan while Team B shouldn’t be forced to reveal its game plan to save the NFL!!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:02 amYou don’t want Gonzo forced to confess his political agenda so America won’t be saved – yet Leahy must be forced to confess his political agenda to save America.
Comment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 9, 2007 @ 6:02 am
—————————————————————————————-
No. Because Gonzo is an empty-headed idiot. He will do his masters bidding. Leahy is a loose canon, we do not know where he stands! Why does he keep insisting on these show trials?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:18 amLEAHY MUST BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE!!!!
Eat it you suck ass Liar.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:24 ammparker, that was rather rude.
I do not believe that was called for.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:28 amNo. Because Gonzo is an empty-headed idiot. Comment by Mr. President
So..we need need to keep empty headed idiots (your words) in office an those who ask questions need to be forced to confess political agendas?
I am trying to understand your rational. If you could explain from a neutral (apolitical) standpoint perhaps that would help.=)
Thanks.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:05 amComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 9, 2007 @ 7:05 am
Did you vote in the last presidential election?
I didn’t, because I already knew what the outcome would be. I didn’t feel like wasting my time.
Leahy obviously does feel that there is time to waste on this, also, he is providing a distraction by drawing attention to himself.
This is not about Gonzo, that was the first distraction.
Fool us once…
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 ammparker, that was rather rude.
I do not believe that was called for.
Comment by Mr. President
Nor are your frequent comments calling others “Islamo-stalinist,” “Islamist know-it-all,” kiddo.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:40 amYeah, what she said!
My manner is appropriate towards one who would so slavishly supports war criminals and traitors with the endless bleating of lies and propaganda.
It’s the least I can do.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:03 amSlavish?
I do this of my own Free Will!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:07 amAnyway, we all know this will produce zippity, zelch, nil, nada, nothing.
So why is Leahy so bent on wasting time and money?
What is his real motive?
These are the questions that need to be asked!
I say someone needs to investigate Leahy!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:10 amRemember what Sage William Kristol has said,
July 9th, 2007 at 8:14 amthis was a Machiavellian move on the part of Bush,
Leahy is either in on it,
or he is doing exactly what Bush and Cheney want him to do.
If Bush is guilty of war crimes funding of those same war crimes makes Pelosi and Reid material accomplice’s.
They must both be removed from office.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:16 amExactly Troll!
It’s not like there is a big secret, both parties are in on it, and both try to blame each other.
They think we are dumb!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:18 amDoro
July 9th, 2007 at 8:20 amI agree 100% with your sentiments.
Fortunately, once the trolls go off the deep end, they use a lot of Bold and capitalized sentences. These are easy to spot and skip.
I like to read different points of view, and I have learned quite a bit here, but never from a troll. Why?
Because, even if they have a valid point to make, they either phrase it in insulting ways or by screaming it (bold/caps).
And, as I said, I have learned to avoid most of these. I also will quickly scroll down a post to see who posted it; if a certain name (there are 6 or so) is there I just skip the post and do not waste my time. Apparently, these juveniles never learned any manners, as evidenced by their language, and their inability to form an independent thought. It’s much easier to fill a few paragraphs with repetitive posts or exclamation points. No thought involved, just hold down the key, or paste and re-paste the same post, over and over.
By doing these things, they show the utter vacuum that exists between their ears, and is it any wonder they worship Bush?
I wold not give up though. Many intelligent and thoughtful arguments/points are presented here; yo just have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Why does anyone care if Fitzgerald testifies. Do we want to know the truth. They make the Scooter Libby case seem like a politically motivated witch hunt, even though Fitz is a Republican who voted for Bush, and the judge a Republican appointed by GW. Also, the investigation came about at the instigation of the CIA to determine how and why a covert agent (any one who says Plame was not covert is lying to themselves; the CIA said she was, Fitzgerald says she was, Plame says she was.
And why demonize Plame? All she was doing was monitoring WMDs in Iraq and Iran.
Let Fitzgerald testify, let the truth come out. And if the trolls can’t handle the truth (and believe me, from what I’ve seen here they can’t) well that’s just too bad.
Fool us once…Comment by Mr. President
Us?
I am getting to old to much care about all these semantics and political BS on both sides of the aisle. It only seems to be about money and power with these people. What your agenda is I really dont care. You say you think for yourself yet nothing you have said leads me to think that you do.
I am sooooo tired of people and their self inflicted biases created by money, race, color, religion, business, political and geographic positions. The world is full of group think idiots and I can’t see how becoming a member of a bunch of group think buffoons will help to improve anything in this world.
Hey, look at me! I will prove to you how great my group is by breaking the law to prove how stupid you are!! So what If I become stupider than you by breaking laws to prove my cleverness!! Go Stupidity!!
YAY group think! YAY!
Good luck attracting members Mr President. I am sovereign, as your Lord, or God was and Intend to remain so. But please, don’t let me stop anyone from doing stupid things to prove themselves.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:23 amComment by ΙΧΘΥΣ — July 9, 2007 @ 8:23 am
Yeah, you know, how they tried to fool us with the Gonzo show trial.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:27 amGonzo: “I do not recall”
July 9th, 2007 at 8:41 amAny Senator: We just asked for your name.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8597
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 amhttp://www.bradblog.com/?p=4786#more-4786
July 9th, 2007 at 9:00 amWhy is Mr Pee still here? Clearly he doesn’t like ThinkProgress. So why is he here? Clearly he can’t think. Or is that, he can’t think clearly? And he doesn’t like progress; he prefers to go backwards. He’s not a liberal, nor is he a democrat. By his own admission he didn’t vote in the last election –he claims he knew the outcome and didn’t want to waste his time, but I suspect he’s underage or not a citizen. So why are you here, Mr Pee?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:08 amI see no reason why Fitzgerald can’t tell all in his testimony. He has already said that no one else will be prosecuted even though something like 5 people have said they leaked her name and Fitzgerald determined that she was a covert agent. As far as I am concerned, Fitzgerald committed treason along with the rest.
And to all you fool trolls who use the “no underlying crime” talking point, please answer this question. If Valerie Plame was not an under cover agent, why did she have a cover company, Brewster Jennings?
The White House leakers not only leaked her name, they also leaked the name of her cover company, pretty much verifying that they knew she was under cover. By leaking her cover company, Novak put a lot of CIA agents in harms way. For all we know, some may have been killed or kidnapped. But we are not allowed to know that because the CIA’s investigation into the matter is “classified”, surprise…surprise.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:14 amSo why are you here, Mr Pee?
Comment by david
that would be like asking “Fredo” for a straight answer. “Uh, Senator, I cn’t recall if I remembered at that time, whether or not I did, in fact, have that conversation. And if I do recall, whether that conversation happened, who was there. I mean, I remember the conversation took place and who was there, but I cn’t recall if I remember it.”
July 9th, 2007 at 9:17 amKatie, you are surely right.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:19 amAnd everyone complains about the fact that there is no underlying crime. I get that, because Fitzgerald has not indicted anyone for the outing of Plame. It should be obvious that Novak is a traitor, so why isn’t he in jail? He’s still writing columns!
So, is Fitzgerald just playing along without doing much of anything, or was Libby’s cover up so good that no incriminating evidence could be found? I am troubled by the lack of indictments, and I want to know how Fitz explains this inconsistency.
And to all you fool trolls who use the “no underlying crime†talking point,
Comment by katie
The “underlying crime” talking point is silly. No one was convicted of the “underlying crime” because Scooter committed purgery and obstruction of justice to thwart the investigation.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:21 amThe CIA has stated for the record that her Undercover Status is undeniable. P. Fitzgerald has also stated that her status as a covert op for the CIA is clear. The “talking points” are moot.
Clearly P. Fitzgerals doesn’t have a partisan aganda, nor does the CIA.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:26 amWhen a criminal investigation of a possible conspiracy begins, the authorities do not stop the investigation when one of the conspirators confesses. They continue their investigation in order to determine all which of the suspects is involved. They will prosecute all of the members of the conspiracy, not just the first to confess.
Alan Spector was a former prosecuting attorney; surely he would know this simple procedure. Even if he was not a prosecuting attorney, he is an attorney. He would have learn the law regarding conspiracies in law school.
Or maybe now the rules have changed and the authorities will no longer investigate after the first member of the conspiracy confesses. They can save the taxpayers a lot of money under this new method of investigation. Of course public safety will substantially decrease as the other members of the criminal conspiracy continue to commit crimes.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:39 amhe CIA has stated for the record that her Undercover Status is undeniable. P. Fitzgerald has also stated that her status as a covert op for the CIA is clear. The “talking points†are moot.
Comment by willyloman
That’s why I do not get the lack of indictments.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:39 amWe know she was covert, we know outing a covert agent is illegal, we know who leaked the information, and who published the information.
So, why no indictments? It cannot be just because Libby concealed evidence. We have seen the evidence. Armitage, Libby, Rove, Cheney, Novak, Cooper, Miller all had classified information. Bush authorized Cheney to un-classify enough to out Plame. So why no indictments. Miller even spent time in jail for protecting her leaker (Libby).
Where is Justice?
What can Mr. Fitzgerald contiribute? He may discuss everything that the president and vice president told him, but does any one of us think that there was any truth entailed?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:53 amThe CIA has stated for the record that her Undercover Status is undeniable. P. Fitzgerald has also stated that her status as a covert op for the CIA is clear. The “talking points†are moot.
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 9:26 am
Loman,
July 9th, 2007 at 10:25 amCould you please cite some source for these?
The CIA has stated for the record that her Undercover Status is undeniable. P. Fitzgerald has also stated that her status as a covert op for the CIA is clear. The “talking points†are moot.
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 9:26 am
Loman,
Could you please cite some source for these?
Comment by Troll — July 9, 2007 @ 10:25 am
news.aol.com/elections-blog/2007/03/16/cia-director-hayden-valerie-plame-was-covert-agent/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/
July 9th, 2007 at 11:27 amArous
Thanks for the link. From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/
“Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller.”
Could those on the wich hunt here consider that this was maybe just a boneheaded slip of the tongue?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:15 pmthats “witch”
July 9th, 2007 at 1:15 pmI think that Dick Cheney has pictures of Arlen Specter doing it with pigs. He will go along with anything Dick ultimately tells him to do. As for me, I’d rather trust the slightly less slimy Phil Specter.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:15 pmWhat most people fail to realize is Fitzgerald KNOWS it was Armitage that outed Plame.
What MUST be determined to prosecute him (and most likely others) is….did he do it intentionally and who gave him the information?
These questions are the very reason Libby was charged with Perjury and Obstruction. The Grand Jury found Libby was not forthright in his testimony about Who, What and When.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:24 pmNow I am not so sure where Arlen stands on the issue
July 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pmof having a continuum of the investigation of the outing of Valeri Plame. He sounds a little shakey to me.
As I have already said, this is a show trail. Leahy knows that nothing will come from this, he is in it to further is own political agenda and to smear his enemies (e.g. Cheney).
No, actually it is about bringing the execTHUG branch to ACCOUNTABILITY…
Something sorely missing from the previous RUBBER-STAMP Rapeublic Congress.
Time for the TRUTH about how Cheney and the ENTIRE Bush family are COXUCKER punk TRAITORS to the USA…
God Bless America, the Democratic Party, SUBPOENAS and the WORLD!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:19 pmWhat most people fail to realize is Fitzgerald KNOWS it was Armitage that outed Plame.
What MUST be determined to prosecute him (and most likely others) is….did he do it intentionally and who gave him the information?
These questions are the very reason Libby was charged with Perjury and Obstruction. The Grand Jury found Libby was not forthright in his testimony about Who, What and When.
It was actually SEVEN little traitors who exposed a COVERT agent fronting a company specializing in WMD with Iran and Iraq.
Libby, Rove and Armitage were among them, and this all came out in the Libby TRIAL. Dick Cheney authorized it.
That’s why Fitz said there is still a “cloud over the VP and his office”. Because the leak was done at the REQUEST of Dick Cheney.
And Libby OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE by shielding Cheney.
And TRAITOR Bush. Libby was also Assistant to the PRESIDENT.
For “national security”.
How very sad.
How very TREASONOUS…
July 9th, 2007 at 7:26 pm#177
Comment by Lora — July 9, 2007 @ 12:20 am
“Do you mean to tell us that you protested the Starr investigation or Dan Burton’s several go-nowhere investigations of Clinton…”
When I found about them?….absolutely! Burton wasting tax payers money was just as ridiculous as Fitzgerald’s.
“If not, then STFU, boy; your party no longer controls Congress.”
Oh, the little girl’s got herself a potty mouth! LOL!
July 9th, 2007 at 11:25 pmwhy ? Because Patrick Fitzgerald was appointed by Bill Clinton and this was nothing more than a Witch hunt , and it looks like Mr. Fitzgerald is going to get a well deserved Spanking : )
July 9th, 2007 at 11:47 pmHi, Senator Specter, Schumer & Leahy
I would like to give you my idea of an answer to a question Senator Spector asked. Why was the investigation continued after Armitage was identified as the first leaker or the first leaker to Novak?
Mr. Fitzgerald was charged with investigating possible violations of two national security laws. The first was The Intelligence Identity Protection Act. That makes it a crime to make a covert officer’s name and operative status know to non-authorized persons. This law was passed after a covert operative, Mr. Welch was murdered in Athens in 1975 a couple of days after names was made public in a newspaper column by Jack Anderson. In addition some of the people Agent Welch was seen with in the area where he was working were killed or went missing and other sources were lost for important national security information. In addition in 1985 the incident was repeated when agent Buckley and some of his associates were killed after their status was revield in Beruit.
The second national security law involved in the Fitzgerald investigation dealt with leaking classified information to non authorized persons.
Three specific jobs were given to Mr. Fitzgerald in his commission as Special Council. Task two depended on task one and task three was independent of task one and two.
The first task was to find all who were involved in making Ms. Plame’s name and covert operative assignment known to unauthorized persons. This required the investigation of all potential leakers to find who may have violated the law by leaking, not just the first leaker or the person or persons who leaked to Mr. Novak. There were at least two who leaked to Mr. Novak, Mr. Libby and Mr. Rove Mr. Rove testified under oath to the fact he also outed Ms. Plame’s name and CIA status to Mr. Novak in verification of Mr. Armitage’s leak to Mr. Novak. Note the leak did not have to be published to violate the law. Weather it was published or not the leaker may have broken the law by leaking the classified information to unauthorized persons. In addition Mr. Novak sent a copy of this article to Mr. Rove a couple of days before it was printed in the various papers that carried Mr. Novak’s column. Mr. Rove did not object to Mr. Novak’s article.
Mr. Fitzgerald found several leakers. The White House press secretary, Ari Flisher who leaked to Mr. Cooper at Time Magazine after Mr. Libby leaked to Mr. Flisher. Mr. Libby also leaked the identity to Mr. Cooper and Ms. Miller at the New York Times newspaper on three occasions, weeks before Mr. Armitage leaked to Mr. Novak. Mr. Rove also testified he leaked to Mr. Cooper of Time Magazine and to Mr. Novak who called Mr. Rove to verify Mr. Armitage’s leak to Mr. Novak.
Mr. Fitzgerald met this assignment well according to both Attorney General Gonzales and President Bush who both evaluated his efforts as excellent on television and commented that they thought he was an excellent prosecutor.
The second task, assigned to Mr. Fitzgerald was to prosecute those who enough evidence was available against to sustain a just prosecution. Mr. Fitzgerald did not find enough evidence to support a case against the leakers. He said that whiteness and suspect lying kept him from getting the necessary indirect or circumstantial evidence to show the intent required to sustain a successful prosecution of the law. But he kept trying to get such evidence till he was sure he could not get the truthfull cooperation he needed.
Mr. Fitzgerald did the correct thing. He did not make a false, illegal prosecution like one prosecutor, in North Carolina, has done on the state level recently for political purposes.
Mr. Fitzgerald’s third task required by his commission was to investigate and prosecute all those who interfered in the investigation by perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to investigative officers. This was regardless of whether enough evidence was available to bring leak prosecutions. This was made explicit in writing because it was believed that Mr. Fitzgerald would probably be questioning high government officials and people of some political influence. This was published on the Internet to remind all that the rule of law and the ideas of justice requires that all people be treated equally by the laws, the courts and the Justice Department no matter what their official status or political influence might be.
Mr. Fitzgerald accomplished this and was specifically congratulated in writing for performing this task in the Libby sentence commutation by President Bush. By the way both attorney General Gonzales or President Bush could have and still can remove Mr. Fitzgerald from his commission at any time with out cause. He serves at their pleasure as Special Counsel and as a political apointed employee of the Justice Departmen, being the United States Attorney for the first district of Illinois. He never was a special Prosecutor or an Independent Prosecutor.
All the best, God bless you and the United
July 11th, 2007 at 10:29 pmStates of America and everyone everywhere.