Escalation Architect Kagan: ‘Whatever You Can Say About The Current Strategy, It Has Not Failed’
Escalation Architect Kagan: ‘Whatever You Can Say About The Current Strategy, It Has Not Failed’
Today, the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank, held a discussion entitled “Assessing the Surge in Iraq,” featuring prominent Iraq war proponents like Fred Kagan, Gen. Jack Keane, and James Miller of the Center for a New American Security.
Bush’s escalation was largely inspired by a October 2006 paper written by Kagan, who stated that the U.S. needed to “re-enter Iraq in large numbers.” In today’s conference, Kagan claimed there was a “general agreement” that “violence overall is down” but refused to provide any factual evidence for those arguments:
The worst that can be said of [the escalation] at this point is that the results have been mixed. I frankly think the results are less mixed…We can argue about statistics, but at the end of the day, that argument is not going to get us anywhere right now. … Whatever you can say about the current strategy, it has not failed.
Watch it:
Desperate to defend his failing strategy, Kagan refused to provide statistical backup for his broad assertions that escalation is showing progress. In April, he claimed “we are turning a corner in Iraq,” again without statistical backup, only to see May become deadliest month for American troops this year.
Looking at some key statistics, it is clear that the escalation has been a bloody failure. Even by simply looking at the past couple of months — when Kagan alleges the escalation officially began — the situation has deteriorated:
– A recent bombing killed over 150 in Baghdad, “one of the deadliest single bombings, if not the deadliest, since the 2003 invasion.”
– 108 coalition soldiers died in June, the third deadliest month this year. So far in July, 28 have died.
– Approximately 2,600 Iraqi civilians died in June and 3,000 in May, up from 2,500 in February, when the first troops of the escalation began to arrive.
UPDATE: Laura Rozen has more from the AEI event.
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POS. I would force this idiot to bury every dead body in Iraq, so the images would never leave him alone.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:23 pmPosterboy for the neocons.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pm#1 ~ Then stand him up against a wall and give him a last cigarette.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pmWould be better to have him and his children take a trip, and face the insurgents themselves. The more this drags on, the more I am convinced that appointing Bush military governer of Iraq, and shipping him and the rest of these useless idiots over there, until they clean up the mess is the best option.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pmLook at that picture and tell me…..Why do all these NeoCon scumbags look like Rove’s illegitimate half brother? Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:32 pmWhy do all these neocons have that pudgy, pasty, sweaty look? Buncha bastards who would cry like babies if they had to face what our troops are dying for EVERY DAY. How brave of him to stand behind a podium as if he had a freakin’ clue about Iraq or anything else.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pmFred Kagan, another Straussian fascist member of PNAC and husband of Darryn Kagan who was a CNN anchor – “outed”! Once he was outed for the scum that he is, Darryn suddenly vanished from CNN.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pmGod…this is what we’re up against, people.
People who are so bull-headedly stubborn that they can willfully deny reality and honestly believe it. That’s so dangerous, considering their assuredness can often win people over who are wavering, despite how utterly wrong they are.
Hit these liars with the truth, hit them hard, and don’t let them get away with their lies.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:34 pmveritas, are you serious??? The same Darryn Kagan who was dating that other fat ass, Rush?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:34 pmriiiiiight. a rousing success!!
A success for the new Iraq oil sharing law. A success in being used as an excuse to violate liberty at home. A success in generating masses of profits for the weapons-makers….
I’d call the whole war a success on these levels.
Some further reading:
“Revealed: Why Your Sons and Daughters Died in Iraq”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/revealed_why_your_sons_and_daughters_died_in_iraq
“What ever you can say about it you cannot say It has Failed” Kagan
Translation; Ok I am going to honor you with my presense unless you start to say the surge is failing.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pma new headline on google news…
anyone brave enough to go there and find out? … not me…
Who Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmFOX News – 23 minutes ago
By John Gibson For a long time we’ve been hearing ordinary people and big shot opinion makers say we should get out of Iraq. I’ve always wondered what these people say about what will happen when we leave.
…
WOOO HOOO Candyce, Great minds, etc!! We saw the same thing, didn’t we? And I think it is because they were all total nerds in school and are taking it out on the world in a safe Keyboard Kommando role, dreaming of the day they, too, can get a Woody getting other people killed and maimed.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmi want to be a neo-con, senior fellow, pundit, analyst, expert. i want to be wrong all the time so i can make millions and be on tv too. what a gig!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmDid you notice he said “the numbers are of no consequence”to him?
As if we didn’t know that already
July 9th, 2007 at 6:37 pmIf this surge is such a success, how does this nitwit nazi explain the 150 people killed this weekend alone? What are they smoking over at the PNAC these days? Perhaps they’re so psychologically demented, like Hitler, that they actually believe their own lies.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWHAT THE F*@K IS WRONG WITH THESE IDIOTS?????
July 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pmI find it fascinating how Darryn Kagen, this fascist’s wife, had infiltrated what was purportedly to be a station of “fair and balanced” reporting. What’s wrong with that picture?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:39 pmhe certainly has gained a lot of weight and changed his look since he left CNN
July 9th, 2007 at 6:39 pmhaha, upside00! I have thought more than once that Rove was the victim of bullies and all of this is payback. That smug little smile on his face all the time just screams, “Look at me now, azzholes.”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pmWillyloman: Of course the numbers mean nothing to this misanthrope. The deaths of innocent people for his demented, twisted neocon plan is of no consequence to this stone-hearted individual. I think Congress needs to begin investigating these PNAC “archictects” of this illegal war and have them testify about what they knew, when they knew it, and reveal their complicity in everything from 911, to the patriot act, to the Iraq War and everything in between.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pmLet the people’s “witch hunt” begin with every member of PNAC….and then move to the Federalist Society. Right there we’d have enough criminals to fill one of our small prisons.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmWhy are all these little shits so nerdy looking? So unattractive? Usually fat. Just take a look at the godfather Rove ca. 1972 on Youtube during a CBS Dan Rather thing. These are misfits. Uncool little assholes who probably have a tough time getting laid.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmRegardless of the reasons why the United States chose to invade Iraq or even why a US presence remains there today, it is clear that the Bush Administration is putting too many of its resources—OUR resources— into remaining there. To date, the war has cost over $340 billion dollars—money which could have been spent much more wisely and with better end results. It is estimated, for example, that the expenditure of a mere $19 billion would eliminate starvation and malnutrition worldwide. In a time when the current defense budget is $522 billion, the goal of eradicating world hunger is clearly well within reach. Thus, it is clear that the occupation of Iraq needs to end, and it needs to end now without regard to what this will do to United States interest in Iraq’s oil. There are simply much more important issues that need to be addressed.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pm17. veritas; from wikipedia “Kagan is Jewish. [15] Her great-grandfather was a Russian immigrant named Eiser Cohen who came to the United States through Ellis Island.[16] Cohen settled in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Her grandfather, Jack Kagan, later moved to the Los Angeles area.[17] Her mother, Phyllis Kagan, is a breast cancer survivor who has appeared on CNN discussing the disease. [18] Kagan has a younger sister named Kallan Kagan, the co-owner of a Brooklyn coffee shop, and an older brother named Mark Kagan.
her name is Daryn Kagan, and she did have an thing with Rush till 2006. Are you saying she married this Kagan?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:43 pmI wonder if people like Kagen and the other NeoCon Chickenhawks get fan mail from our trolls here and send back autographed pictures and trading cards for their basement-dwelling fun and games.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:44 pmBush’s escalation was largely inspired by a October 2006 paper written by Kagan, who stated that the U.S. needed to “re-enter Iraq in large numbers.â€
Bush relies on one paper from one neo-con and ignores the Baker Commission. And, as with all other results where his actions are based on information that fits his design of the World everything turns to crap.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:45 pmWhat would failure look like? At what point would these people consider it failed?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:46 pm#24: Yes.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:46 pmWhatever drugs these NeoCons are on, I just have to try me some.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pm#27 #24: Yes.
Comment by No-one in particular
I would make book on it!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pmWhat would failure look like? At what point would these people consider it failed?
Comment by Bob
Well, since Tony has told us that higher body counts mean the surge is working, I would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pmIt is interesting that we have almost NO troll droppings on this topic. Maybe even they are having a hard time taking this NeoCon Kool-aid enema!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:49 pm#30 Well, since Tony has told us that higher body counts mean the surge is working, I would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
Comment by Candyce
It is that old (paraphrased) saying from Vietnam: “We had to destroy those people to save them.”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:51 pmupside, shhhh! Don’t rattle the bridge!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:52 pm#33 Candyce…. OK, we will be VEWWWY VEWWWY Quiet!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:54 pmHey, give Kagan a uniform and tell him to get out there on the front lines…
Just another fat, white Repugnican Chickenhawk who isn’t will to put his fatty ass on the line.
Disgusting.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:55 pmI would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
Comment by Candyce — July
That would explain tagging withdrawl as ’surrender’: fewer dead and therefore losing to terrorism.
Bizzaro World Logic
They say it’s a new kind of war, but then they use the conventional idea of armies and battlefield to say if we leave, they’ll follow, as if the military is a dam holding back water.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pmFred Kagan, another Straussian fascist member of PNAC and husband of Darryn Kagan who was a CNN anchor – “outedâ€! Once he was outed for the scum that he is, Darryn suddenly vanished from CNN.
Comment by veritas
Daryn Kagan is not married to this boob.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pmWhen will these people just please go ahead and really eat the pudding or drink the kool-aid?
Humanity is going to win the Darwin award pretty soon if we don’t stand up and insist the laws be enforced against Bush, Cheney and these other fascists.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:58 pmAs soon as you have to say, “Whatever you can say about x, it has not failed,” it’s failed.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:00 pmHe shuts off any disagreement by saying ‘we’re not going to get anywhere by arguing about that,’ and ‘it’s just a matter of statistics.’ Neocon(victs) are too chickens**t to allow dissent. Just like the boss.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmI have this mental picture of wittle Freddie holding his breath until he turns blue, and whimpering, “It has not failed. IT HAS NOT FAILED!!”
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmPlease, tell me someone, anyone, what is the definition of success in Iraq. God save me from these idiots. We have been at this longer than WWII. I am not asking to see a duplicate of “Any Town” in Indiana. However, any stupid fool would expect to see substantive progress by this point of time.
These fools are idiots. They would rather see the United States broken militarily by following a failed strategy. Look at their excuses:
1. No one could have anticipated what happened. Screw these fools. Every knowledgeable military and foreign affairs expert with a background in this area did anticipate this result. Powell warned, the Sinsiki (sp) and many others knew exactly what would happen and what needed to be done (avoid the war or send in a quarter of million troops). Instead, Pissa_t Bush did not even know the religious and ethnic backgrounds at play.)
2. Facing an unexpected foreign enemy. Get off of it. This occurred because a retarded leadership failed to secure the country after winning the war against Saddam. They guarded the oil ministries and left the munitions dumps unguarded. They jer-k-d o– while chaos enveloped the country with such pleasantries such as “A free people will make some mistakes.” They disbanded the Iraqi Army and gutted the civil service of competent mid-level bureaucrats to ensure that there would be a maximum of confusion and resentment amongst the populations. They failed to train an adequate security force. They failed to engage Iraqi’s in rebuilding instead relying upon Haliburton and subcontractors using imported foreign labor. This was not an outside enemy. We grew 90% of it.
3. This is the central front in the war against terror. BS. It was not until we made it the central battlefront. That statement and the “Bring it on” moment placed the US in an intolerable position. We made it look like we had to win and win decisively or look totally defeated.
4. Cannot leave or chaos will result. Sorry, but those sectarian problems remain while we are there or not. Iran has already gained its influence and the administration will declare victory with an even less thought out exit strategy to try to placate voters before 2008.
5. AND MY FAVORITE: WE HAVE TO FACE THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE NOW. IT ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING TO GO BACK OVER MISTAKES THAT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED AND PLACE BLAME. Some would think that that process is called holding people responsible. Others would say that it constitutes critical thinking so that we may remove those lacking in skill to accomplish the mission and learn from our mistakes to better performance. The Bush argument simply constitutes a way to avoid accountability.
Of course, the neo’s think they are cleverly devising new strategies. But they know this is bunk. It is merely a face saving device to avoid acknowledging defeat until after the Bush presidency.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmWhatever you can say about the Bush administartion…
July 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pmFreddie: ” Its not my fault! Its not my fault! Dick made me write that paper! Karl ate MY paper.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmKarl Rove, Kyle Sampson, Fred kagan, Bill Kristol, Brad Schozman, Scooter Libby. All that machismo…Put them in loincloths and they would look like the cast of ‘300″.
-SD
July 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmthing is, I look at this guy and i don’t see someone with enough experience or presense to justify why anyone would take anything he says seriously. Much less base a Global Policy on what he says.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:05 pmHe is just the wannbe that the real AEI and PNAC leaders tapped to write the report. They weren’t going to sign their names to it, just in case it…failed.
thing is, I look at this guy and i don’t see someone with enough experience or presense to justify why anyone would take anything he says seriously
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
Exactly what I thought about GW, seven, eight years ago. Why take any of these guys seriously? They sit in ‘think tanks’ all day and don’t live in the real world.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmShouldn’t the surge in Iraq be “assessed” by someone without a major conflict of interest ?
{silence}
Hahahahaha!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
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Isn’t that obvious!?!?!? You Lefties and Islamophiles will blame America!!!
Those who can think for themselves will blame the Iraqis!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmOne FACT DESTROYS THE NEOCON LIE. Regardless of the surge and any hard fought military outcome done by our voluntary military, the Puppet Government of Iraq has not, is not, will not succeed. That cold bitter pill of reality destroys and voids all the vain attempts of the Failure in Chief and his brownshirt Cabal at PNAC and AEI.
This was all for not because they are POWERLESS AND IMPOTENT to make others bow to their will if they do not want it.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:11 pmPOS. I would force this idiot to bury every dead body in Iraq, so the images would never leave him alone.
Comment by Juan C — July 9, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
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Would he actually have to dig?
Or could he just kick the corpses into a pre-dug hole?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:12 pm50. Comment by Heterodoxy
You are right. They vastly underestimated the resolve of the people of Iraq as well as the desire of the entire region to keep the US out of their “Plans for a New Middle East”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:17 pmBREAKING NEWS From Cell-Phone Central: We’re Winning!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:21 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
The repubs have already blamed Americans, Iraqis, (Always and Especially) Democrats, Terrorists, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Islam, Muslims, Radical Fundamentalists, Al Queda, Al Queda in Iraq, Al Zarrea, Philip, Chuck, and Dave, mu mu mu my sharona………
July 9th, 2007 at 7:23 pmCareful Mr. President. You are letting your Flaco/Ringo show. You should format your posts differently for each name you post under, that way it isn’t so obvious that you are posting under multiple screen names. If Faiz finds out, he might ban you. Probably not, so just keep on interrupting every thread.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:24 pmLet’s face it: When the Dems bent over and allowed the Rethugs to have their way with them, it was understood that the definition of “success vs. failure” would be a highly subjective definition as well as a fraudulent fictionalized version of the facts involved. It was the kiss of death to the only control this Congress had to rein in this renegade president and they blew it.
They can debate the definition of “success” until the cows come home, which they will certainly do and the Democrats set themselves, our military, and the people of this country up for another loss of total control over the outcome.
Semantics will define success vs. failure and the Rethugs will win once again as they will convulute facts and provid bogus assessments which will be pure fiction and who will have the guts to stand up to them to dispute it??? You guessed it: No one in this impotent congress has the desire or personal integrity to do so…..presidential candidates included – and on both sides of the aisle.
I have absolutely no faith that anything more than a debate of semantics will occur and drag this out for another 6 months. How do you define success? How does the next person define success?
It was clear to many, as well as the Democrats, that they were once again participating in crimes against the people knowing full well that this concept doesn’t have methodology pre-established to define what is considered “success” or “failure”. How many deaths and car bombs will equate “failure”?? It’s over folks and Bush’s criminal war machine will carry on with business as usual.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:27 pmDaryn Kagan Is married to this boob.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pmDo the math….another six months @ a whopping $12 billion/per month = another $72 billion down the tubes! But what’s that when our national debt will be in the trillions soon???
July 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pmIf Faiz finds out, he might ban you. Probably not, so just keep on interrupting every thread.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — July 9, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Mr. Boy,
Actually, I’ve been emailing Faiz myself and snitching on the Lefties who steal MY name.
He usually responds within the hour to let me know the post will be removed and the IP will be banned.
I am not Flaco.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pmFlaco is not Ringo.
Kagan went on to say (about Kagan):
“Whatever you say about me, I am not a balding fatassed sociopath.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmveritas, unless you’re speaking metaphorically, I’m pretty sure she’s single and still recovering from her relationship with Rush.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmI am not Flaco.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmFlaco is not Ringo.
The strategy has not failed.
I am not Flaco.
Flaco is not Ringo.
Comment by Mr. President
Then that means we have 3 separate idiot trolls on here.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmTrue Fascism has no room for debate or opinion of others. This is why Kagan doesn’t want to get into numbers. This is also why Snowflake today said there is no “debate”. The coup is almost totally in place and, if the Dems continue to drag their feet, it will be completed before Bush leaves office. Then they’ll again right the 08 election as well as the elections of their base so again control Congress. The handwriting IS on the wall right now unless/until we take “the next right step” which is immediate impeachment. If we fail to do the next right thing, in the words of Edward R. Murrow: “Good night and good luck!”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:33 pmCandyce: I’d been told that they were a couple. Perhaps you’re right. Let’s both do some legwork. My mind is always open to truth.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:34 pmSo, then what you are saying is that you fucking retards all post is the same lock step style. Very interesting that you all post exactly the same. Thanks for proving that you have no originality or thoughts of your own.
Flaco/Ringo/Mr President
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmisn’t it clear that america is getting tired of the current administrations lies and one sided view? how to fail: put a man in charge that listens to god
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmCongress took impeachment off the table in January and look how much damage they’ve accomplished to this democracy in 6 brief months. Can this country really afford 18 more months of self-destruction?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pm“at least on this panel anyway”
its hard to prop up a lie if you turn around and debunk you pasty lil turd-puff!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmComment by Egreggious — July 9, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
What are blabbering about?
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Comment by upside00 — July 9, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
You are forgetting The Joker (who now goes by the name “Ace Ventura”), CT_V1, m12, michael, Patrick1, Jake, VV, The Captain, Chucky Schmucky, Troll, etc. etc. etc.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmDaryn Kagan Is married to this boob.
Comment by veritas — July 9, 2007
Sorry veritas, I like you and all, but eh. Nope. Aside from the fact that she was born Kagan, as I showed previously, he wears no wedding band and there is nothing about his married life on any Bio of him. nor her for that matter.
So unless Kagan married Kagan as a coinidence, eh… nope. Not hitched.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmUh huh, like we belive those are all separate people.
Come on Faiz. I already offered to setup your servers for you. Hell, if you need a hardware upgrade, I will provide the hardware. The software is free on the Internet. Maybe TP needs some more technical people if it has taken 3 years to implement registration.
By the time TP gets registration, the rest of the world will be thinking their posts onto the Internet using holographic laser technology.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:39 pmsomeone above mentioned how this administration “failed to secure the borders” when they said we were facing national security threats. Did anyone note the contradiction in that premise? It’s like leaving your front door wide open when you know there’s an escaped criminal in your immediate neighborhood. So we must ask ourselves WHY….why would they not take the obvious precautions??? Could it be that they KNEW the purported threat of terrorism was a work of fiction? Maybe that’s also why Bush had absolutely no reaction at all when his SS man whispered in his ear that we’d had a second plane hit the WTC?? No facial expression whatsoever for 6 or 7 minutes and instead, continued reading My Pet Goat with first graders for a photo op? His famous Photo Op will be his imfamous “photo flop” or prima facie evidence of the fact that he knew it in advance…..no human being, especially el presidente, would sit there unfazed and uncaring….reactionless….unless he expected it.
Besides, why did he believe himself to NOT be in danger when there was an attack on this country and immediately be ushered into the safety of a bunker?? Because he knew he was not in danger??? Thanks to Dennis Kucinich, more of the truth will be forthcoming….Stay tuned…..many feel that these actions hold the key to 911 which, when connecting all the dots, makes everything within their twisted “agenda” work out.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmMr. Boy,
At least, CT_V1, Flaco, The Joker (Ace Ventura), Troll, michael, Jake, VV, m12, and myself are.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/weekinreview/08burns.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
July 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmKagan claimed there was a “general agreement†that “violence overall is downâ€.
Kagan claimed there was a “general agreement†[at the AEI] that [we would claim that] “violence overall is downâ€.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmgood stuff at http://www.911truth.org – a bipartisan Truth Group
July 9th, 2007 at 7:43 pmyou’re fired up today veritas. yesterday you were all about the peace awareness and collective conciousness and an “awakening” to the universal move toward peace….
and now you sound like you want a firebomb and a ticket to DC.
Don’t get me wrong. i like it! Let’s go. I’m with you.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmAmerican Enterprise Institute = WAR MONGERS.
Who is in charge of and founded the AEI?
Anybody?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWillyloman: I stand to be corrected perhaps because my source was word of mouth. Thanks for the wikepedia info. Being with Rush until 2006 is bad enough and one has to wonder about her personal integrity but let’s keep digging. I’m curious now.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmBruce Kovener, Caxton and Ass.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmHow does the AEI differ from Jinsa?
Anybody?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmIf Fred Kagen is married to Daryn Kagen (former CNN anchor) that will sure be news to his wife Kimberly Kagan.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:46 pmJinsa isn’t in the US?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:47 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute
They’ve always been a far right organization, but when Irving Kristol, Richard Perle and their neocon associates took over they went completely off the deep end into fascistic world domination fantasies.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:47 pmWillyloman: The human spirit, in it’s incredible versatility, can actually face the audacious reality of a level of continuing corruption while holding sacred space for the prospect of hope. These two qualities are definitely mutally exclusive. Yes, I do get fired up when this administration continues to rub feces in all of our faces but, once I clear off the stench, what lies beneath it all is an incredible belief in the elasticity and veracity of the human spirit.
P.S. I like you, too….and please keep most posted on Daryn Kagan. I’m checking with some of my sources about her right now too. Although I can’t assuage my suspicious feelings about her orientation in hanging around with a bigoted fool like Rush.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmWillyloman: I stand to be corrected perhaps because my source was word of mouth. Thanks for the wikepedia info. Being with Rush until 2006 is bad enough and one has to wonder about her personal integrity but let’s keep digging. I’m curious now.
Comment by veritas
lol. I don’t think she is capable of dating after being with Rush that long. Still in Detox
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmI saw that this AEI war-fest was on C-Span but I just could not bring myself to watch it. I saw Kagan testifying last week on a panel with Dr. Anthony Cordesman and General John Batiste and that one appearance will last me for a lifetime. Kagan, a scholar specializing in RUSSIA, is a smarmy, self-assured, fatuous idiot. Seeing him lined up next to Cordesman (who is an intellectual heavyweight and someone who takes your breath away by sheer dint of his wisdom) and Batiste – a true American hero, a soldier who has bled on the battlefield and knows what it means to fire a weapon and lose comrades – seeing the doughy Kagan next to these icons….well, it was depressing, to say the least.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmopps… Fred Kagan not Kagen. Typos aside, his wife is Kimberly Kagan, who is a think-tank wonk like himself and is NTO the former CNN Anchor and former Rush girlfriend (yuck).
July 9th, 2007 at 7:49 pmWillyloman: Your ideas about firebombs, etc. are definitely not consistent with me or my brand of spirituality….I live a peace agenda which has nothing to do with intermittent anger when infuriated by the antics of this administration. My orientation is strictly “peace”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:49 pmHow is the HUDSON INSTITUTE different from the AEI and JINSA?
Anybody?
Frederick Kagan and his father Donald Kagan, who is a professor at Yale and a fellow at the Hudson Institute, together authored While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today (2000). The book argued in favor of massive military spending and warned of future threats, including from a potential revival of Iraq’s WMD program
Frederick along with his brother Robert Kagan, who is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group, and their father Donald are all signatories to the neoconservative Project for the New American Century manifesto titled Rebuilding America’s Defenses (2000)
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmNOT … not NTO… damn.. can’t type for crap today.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmThanks for weighing in #89! Guess that solves that riddle for me although I hardly think more of Daryn Kagan with her Rush (yuk) affiliation.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmvis-a-vis: the semantics of “success” and “failure”….. the improbability of ever defining either of these objectively has already begun today with all of the Rethugs jumping ship. All of the talking heads were out today with their “success talking points”. The impossible argument has already begun. It will be a cavalcade of mental masturbation and nothing of substance will be decided or accomplished. It’s just another excuse to keep the war machine making money.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pmDonald Kagan is a Fellow at the HUDSON INSTITUTE?
Well lookie here…now we’re connecting some dots back to the Wurmsers and Dick Cheney:
Meyrav Wurmser, an opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a central neoconservative figure.
In 1996 she helped write “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm†and advised then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “to work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back†regional threats, help overthrow Saddam Hussein, and strike “Syrian military targets in Lebanon†and possibly in Syria proper. Coauthors of the report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith.
She also cofounded with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence, the Middle East Media and Research Institute (MEMRI).
According to her Hudson Institute bio, Wurmser “helped to educate policymakers about the Palestinian Authority two-track approach to ‘negotiating peace’ with Israel: calling for peace in the English press and with western policymakers while inciting hatred and violence through official Arab language media.â€
Although it describes itself as “non-partisan,†MEMRI–which has offices in London, Washington, Jerusalem, and Berlin–has frequently been accused of being nothing more than a propaganda outfit of Israeli intelligence.
According the Guardian, which dug up deleted pages from MEMRI’s web site through the internet archive, “Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri’s website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three–including [Yigal] Carmon–are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence. Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army’s Northern Command Ordnance Corps.â€
The Guardian’s Brian Whitaker also reported: “Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can’t recall receiving any. Evidence from Memri’s website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status.
Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises ‘the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel’. That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.â€
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1394
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmMr Pee-brain said
Is English your first language Mr Pee? I wasn’t sure of your sentence construction here. How do you complete the thought? “…are… all the same person”?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmHi Ace!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmMaking notes here….PNAC includes the entire Kagan family it appears….Frederick, Robert and their pappy, Donald. From the sound of the book, it appears that they’ve had a personal agenda for a long time.
#93, unfortunately AI think your assessment will be all too accurate.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:54 pmKagan acting as judge and jury in the case of The people vs. Kagan declared:
“Whatever you say about the defendent (Kagan), his brilliant strategy of invading and occupying Iraq has not been a total and complete failure.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmHi Ace!
Do You Have any more retard conspiracy theories for us?!?!?!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:56 pmAce: Where have you been? The other day you provided so much documented information that I’ve been processing it all week….has gotten me into all sort of digging and investigation and I soooo appreciate you and the enlightened posts you provided to all of us! Please keep the posts coming because it brings us closer to discovery of the Truth. It’s clear that unless we get to the bottom of how all of this occurred, why it occurred, and what they used to implement their goals, we cannot begin the recovery process as a country.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:56 pmOh snap!
People are starting to provide links to wikipedia!!!
(psst… this is the stuff the US gov’t doesn’t want you to know)
July 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmI live a peace agenda which has nothing to do with intermittent anger when infuriated by the antics of this administration. My orientation is strictly “peaceâ€.
Comment by veritas
I’m all for peace. But how much longer do we Americans let this administration kill people in another land while we know what they are doing it for?
do we have a duty at some point? Beyond our shores? To stop exporting poverty and slave wages? to stop the terrorist behavior of this administration?
Peace is a luxury that at times must be earned.
Rosa Parks wanted peace. You think she thought about the police dogs the night before she refused to move? You think she thought about the racist cop who would arrest her and take her to jail where no one was looking? I don’t think she wanted that. I don’t think she wanted anything, but change.
they wanted peace when they marched from Selma to Montgomery, but Sunday got in the way. But they still marched.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmWillyloman: what I meant is that the spiritual prospect of hope and the ongoing anger & frustration with the daily litany of corruption are not mually exclusive states of being. And, although I get charged up and angry, my orientation has been and always be one of “peace”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmYeah, where have you been ace,
was it…
THE JOOOOOos?
We were worried about you!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:59 pm#
Hi Ace!
Do You Have any more retard conspiracy theories for us?!?!?!
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Ace: Clearly this moron is totally intimidated by your intelligence and knowledge…..not to mention your wisdom – all of which he is totally lacking.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmI have a simple solution – since so many neo-cons and conservatives and republicans think that the surge is working – lets draft them, train them adn send them over their to fight in their war – I think if they had to face this then there would be no surge – I think that for Foolish Fred to talk and for Cancerous Karl to open his mouth also demonstrates what America stands for – the right to share your ideas – I find the right side of the conservative spectrum to be lacking in judgement, compassion and basic intelligence, yet we must let them talk in fact encourage it so Americans can see what we have done to ourselves and perhpas not do it again. I am a registered independent and at this time see no reason to think that our situation will change with the candidates that are out there – so lets continue to listen, and laugh at teh person and cry at their stupidity and as the day when we must find new leaders keep this in mind
July 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmOnly a week after a couple of hundred complaints here about Lieberman’s call for increased electronic surveillence in the wake of the London car bombs, there’s a story in the NYT that this proposal is being adopted by the end of the year.
I wonder why that’s received no recognition here.
The “most popular stories” box at the NYT not visible enough ?
That outrage we saw only a week ago yet again fake was it ?
Or maybe nobody’s connected those two stories (and still won’t) because TP lied to you about what Lieberman was calling for.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pmDr Daddy,
If they think it is already working, why would they want to instate the draft?
That makes no sense!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:03 pmHis wife is not Darryn Kagan. His wife’s name is Kim. Don’t worry. She brings nothing to the debate.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:06 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Isn’t that obvious!?!?!? You Lefties and Islamophiles will blame America!!!
Those who can think for themselves will blame the Iraqis!
Comment by Mr. President
No, we will blame this Administration. After all, they started this debacle. Start with a lie, and the outcome is no better.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:07 pmComment by leftcoast — July 9, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
So, to you -
Bush = bad
Amjmanajihad = good
Christians/jews = bad
Islam = good
Democracy = bad
Stalinism = good
???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pmThis Fearless Fosdick of a Fist F__ker should be bounced around in Iraq
July 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmfor a while, and then sent into Iran with Kristol, Rove, Cheney, et al, with just their diapers on. Maybe they can “make money” over there instead of over here. They gotta take their kinfolk with them. Just think of how much greener the USA would be without those pieces of crap here.
#5 Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
Yes, you are correct. Having no clear way to determine where a member’s chin ends and where the neck begins is in fact a prerequisite for becoming a member of the AEI.
Thank you for your inquiry.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:13 pmAEI Member Registration Office
These neocon morons have been wrong about everything. It’s time for them to slink back under their filthy rock and never ever raise their heads again except to apologize to the American people.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pm‘Center for a New American Security’…!
Is this PNAC (Project for New American Century)with another name?!!
Is Kagan sending any of his kids to Iraq?!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:15 pmMr Pee-brain, aren’t you a member of Jews for Jesus? Isn’t that like one rung below Scientology?? Aren’t you one of the Americans Yitzak Rabin once called “scumbags”???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:17 pmSay anything you like about the “current strategy”…apparently except the truth.
You can say whatever you like about the “strategy of the last several years. But it has failed and cost thousands of innocent lives.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:21 pmLook at that picture and tell me…..Why do all these NeoCon scumbags look like Rove’s illegitimate half brother? Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
My thoughts, too. Chris Vance, the Washington State Rapetard Chair is ANOTHER. Jonah Goldberg also.
Ate too many cheeseburgers and drank too many Slurpees in mom’s basement for too many years…
Just SLEAZY “people”; you can just visualize their GLUTTONY, and lack of care about their fellow man.
Sort of a fat slob George W. Bush…
OR a Dick Cheney/Jabba The Hut wannabee…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:22 pmI wonder if Mr. Pee looks like that.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:25 pmGoldberg is frightened by Barbra Streisand.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:26 pmWillyloman: what I meant is that the spiritual prospect of hope and the ongoing anger & frustration with the daily litany of corruption are not mually exclusive states of being. And, although I get charged up and angry, my orientation has been and always be one of “peaceâ€.
Comment by veritas
Then what’s your problem with Briseadh na Faire?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:26 pmLooking at some key statistics, it is clear that the escalation has been a bloody failure. Even by simply looking at the past couple of months — when Kagan alleges the escalation officially began — the situation has deteriorated:
Kagan alleges that does he ? What you mean in the same way you’ve been doing for the duration ?
The BBC has a graphic up that graphs how lame that is…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2007/iraq_surge/default.stm
Notice how fkn short of a period it is between 20 June and the Sept assessments everyone is referring to ?
So short that without anyone noticing we are already a quarter of the way through it already ?
Yeah well apparently that deck still needs stacking, doesn’t it TP.
Because as we learned a couple of days ago, the success or failure of counterinsurgency strategies, contrary to all recorded history, can be measured over the period of 14 days. And in this case, 20 days beforehand.
Could you get any lamer ?
If memory serves me you people were calling for a withdrawal from Iraq and redeployment to Afghanistan, another counterinsurgency campaign. Begs the question WTF for ?
Has anyone checked whether December 2001 was more or less than 2 weeks ago so that we can declare that counterinsurgency campaign failed ?
Where’s the call to pull troops out of Afghanistan on the same basis ?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:27 pmThere’s troops there teaching Afghan kids trade skills to assist in employment and rebuilding. That’s clearly not going to be achieved inside 2 weeks. That’ll make it a complete failure right ?
I always picture Mr Pee-brain looking like Kip Dynamite.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:28 pmI always picture Mr Pee-brain looking like Kip Dynamite.
Comment by david
i picture him as Cartman when they are playing the online game? All fat and pimply, squirting his feces into a bowl that his Momma is holding.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:31 pmAnd the rest of the world will just blame America. This distinction exists nowhere outside your borders.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmI wonder if Mr. Pee looks like that.
Comment by Egreggious — July 9, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
————————————————————————————–
If you really want to know…
I’m 24y/o
6′1″
220+ lbs.
I have long brown “hippie” hair
I have a full “alkaida/hippie” beard, but I had a goatee first so it is longer in front.
I kinda look like the late Dimebag Darrell of Pantera.
But I do not believe in tattoos.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmBut I do not believe in tattoos.
Comment by Mr. President
Let me set you straight. Tattoos do exist.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pmThe stunning displays of ignorance would be my guess.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pmVeritas:
My absence was not my idea…ask TP.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:38 pmHere you go,
This really looks like me except I don’t do that triangle thing with the hair under my bottom lip:
http://www.blognroll.com/images/dimebag_darrell.jpg
July 9th, 2007 at 8:39 pmWhy is every neocon a fat white guy? Is it something about their beliefs that make them bloat and turn pale?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:39 pmBut I do not believe in tattoos.
Comment by Mr. President
How does one “believe” in tattoos or not?
Do you not “believe” they exist; or do you prefer not to have them on your body?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:43 pmI do not believe that tattoos can be trusted.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:44 pmI do not believe that tattoos can be trusted.
Comment by Egreggious
Well, not the Muslim ones, at least.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmWell, Zooey,
If I shave and cut my hair, I can look like a completely different person.
But a tattoo is an identifying mark that I do not need.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmIs it something about their beliefs that make them bloat and turn pale?
-Comment by PG
No, it’s actually a reaction to all the blood they suck out of our troops and their other victims before ditching the bodies and going back to checking their online portfolios with their chubby little fingers.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmThe stunning displays of ignorance would be my guess.
Comment by Kilo — July 9, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Pot meet “Fred Kagan-sized” kettle.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmMr Pee, English isn’t your first language, is it? What’s your mothertongue?? Jibberish???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmmore censorship, eh TP?
Why not just publish a list of topics that are forbidden, and then we’ll ALL know your true agenda.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmBut a tattoo is an identifying mark that I do not need.
Comment by Mr. President
Here’s a tip from Judge Daddy: Don’t ever get a tattoo where the Judge can see it.
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Right?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmHey, I found a video of Mr. P having a snack. A must see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM7Rpf1×7RU
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm‘Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you, nanny nanny nanners, I’m sticking my fingers in my ears now. La la la la la la”
I think that’s what this douche is saying.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmThat’s not how a Democrat controlled congress works.
First it needs to be a major story in the NYT which gets picked up by most other media outlets.
Then the public needs to talk about congress investigating this for about a month.
Then congress talks about and asks for things other than subpeonas for another month.
Then they start anything resembling a serious investigation can start.
So it’s a shame the Iraq war hasn’t popped up as a major story in the US or a focus of public concern at any point since the Democrats took back both houses last year.
Maybe once they sort out who suggested killing those 4000 US attorneys for not prosecuting voter fraud they’ll get round to Iraq.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI forgot who I said this to:
Do not address me when you see my posts sir, and I will not address you.
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
Oh that’s right!
It was david!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI think that’s what this douche is saying.
Comment by ForTruth
Mr Kagan or Mr President?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:52 pmOh that’s right!
It was david!
Comment by Mr. President
Why are you shunning david?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmMistress Z,
Well,
There was a time when I was thinking about getting a tat, but that was a different me.
Now, I really don’t care.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmMr Kagan or Mr President?
Comment by Mistress Z — July 9, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
——————————————————————————
Hey! I said nothing of the sort!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:54 pmNow, I really don’t care.
Comment by Mr. President
That sort of defines you, doesn’t it?
Um, where’s CT? Was he being naughty on TP yesterday?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:55 pmMr Kagan or Mr President?
Comment by Mistress Z
Actually Mr. Kagan. But now that you mention it…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmCongress took impeachment off the table in January and look how much damage they’ve accomplished to this democracy in 6 brief months. Can this country really afford 18 more months of self-destruction?
Doh! Do you really think King Bill and Queen Hillary want Miss San Francisco stealing their right to be the 44th President? Nope!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmPresumably for comedic reasons, you chose to follow that comment with this one…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Hey! I said nothing of the sort!
Comment by Mr. President
ForTruth called someone a “douche,” and I am inquiring as to which of you his is referring. Mind?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:57 pmUm, where’s CT? Was he being naughty on TP yesterday?
Comment by Mistress Z — July 9, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
————————————————————————-
Here was here earlier.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmThat was not him yesterday.
Remember the name SARA TAYLOR, folks!!!
The former Rove aide, who history will record,
exposed the TREASON of the Bushes and PNAC….
Do your PATRIOTIC DUTY, Sara.
Tell the TRUTH about the WAR CRIMINALS who “run†OUR government!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmHey, I found a video of Mr. P having a snack. A must see.
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Ughhh! Imagine that with tattoos!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmI have a simple solution – since so many neo-cons and conservatives and republicans think that the surge is working – lets draft them, train them adn send them over their to fight in their war
Can we use the same logic for the $1 trillion annually spent on social security?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmMr Pee-brain said
Would that “different me” be CT, Ace Venture, ValianttheHater, or The Joker?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmOops,
He (CT) was here earlier.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmm12 has hired Enron’s accounts.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:00 pmSara “I do not recall” Taylor?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pmMr. P can’t get tats because of the fur.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmCan we use the same logic for the $1 trillion annually spent on social security?
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
Try to stay on topic, dingleberry.
See? When I inquired about ForTruth’s “douche” reference, I was still on topic. Clever, huh?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmKagan was formerly employed by Pillsbury in the company’s Doughboy Division.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmSara “shot in the face with a shotgun by accident” Taylor?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmHe (CT) was here earlier.
Comment by Mr. President
Ah, I see. I only got here a little while ago.
Is CT getting a life and leaving you behind?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmAssuming that the Neanderthals at AEI have made substantial investments in multi-national oil companies, defense contractors, etc., I’m sure that the surge is working extremely well–at least for them and their like. The biggest threat to these profits is the prospect of enough voters in this country getting up in arms to actually result in a meaningful curtailment of the United States’ imperialism. Fortunately for them, the MSM has been quite cooperative in making sure that coverage of the carnage in Iraq is kept to an absolute minimum.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:04 pmSince most of the funding for this war is (or at least was) kept off-budget and is borrowed from the Social Security trust fund and foreign countries, most economic pain has been delayed. Since an ever greater share of the tax burden continues to be shifted away from corporations and wealthy individuals to those who are less fortunate (i.e., those who can’t afford to attend $1,000 a plate political fundraisers), when the bill does come due, those who work for a living will have to shoulder the lion’s share of the burden. As for the corporations, what do you suppose the corporate income tax rates are now like to Halliburton, since relocating their headquarters to the United Arab Emirates?
So, when the glut of baby boomers reaches retirement age they will be faced with three unpleasant choices: 1) support the imposition of extremely heavy taxes on those who are still working (including their children and grandchildren) for a living to pay for current operating expenses, cover interest on the national debt, and pay back the money borrowed from the Social Security trust fund and foreign countries, most likely triggering a depression that will make the 1930s seem mild by comparison; 2) continue working until their health declines to the point that continuing is an absolute impossibility and/or 3) embark on a bout of hyperinflation to pay off debts, ala Germany in the early 1920s. The intergenerational class warfare and social upheaval that would likely ensue is almost too painful to imagine.
Serenaded by the MSM into a sense of oblivion, the masses continue to sing merrily along their way as they march inexorably toward the abyss.
Sara “I do not recall†Taylor?
Comment by Egreggious
Yup. But also Sara “I don’t wanna go to jail” Taylor, who is defying the TRAITOR Bush by testifying.
If Bush is trying to block her testimony, there is a reason.
And he CANNOT stop Congress from having her testify.
Guess we’ll find out on Wednesday…
July 9th, 2007 at 9:04 pmCT is off getting a tat.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:04 pmSara “I really really WANT to testify, but I’m ordered not to” Taylor
*batting eyelashes sweetly*
July 9th, 2007 at 9:06 pmSo, when the glut of baby boomers reaches retirement age they will be faced with three unpleasant choices:
Gotta love those pyramid schemes! And Social Security isn’t even the killer; its Medicare.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmCT is off getting a tat.
Comment by Egreggious
It says “Troll” across his tummy
July 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmGuess we’ll find out on Wednesday…
Comment by Mr. Bush Goes To Hell
Her lawyer said Mizz Taylor will “appear,” he did not say she would “testify.”
Just sayin’.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmGotta love those pyramid schemes! And Social Security isn’t even the killer; its Medicare.
Comment by m12
So you’ll be refusing your check, or donating it in full to the poor?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:09 pmCT works the day shift, I work the night shift at
TrollPatroll ™
It’s a super secret organization run by Cheney and Rove.
Super-duper secret stuff so don’t tell…
July 9th, 2007 at 9:09 pmWhatever you can say about the current strategy, it has not failed.
I guess it all depends how you define “failure”.
If your goal was to reduce Iraq to rubble, to run up the debt tab, and to kill & main countless people (bot Iraqi and American) then, absolutely, the strategy has been an astounding success.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmSo you’ll be refusing your check, or donating it in full to the poor?
What grounds do I have to assume I even get a check? I’m only 31.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmSuper-duper secret stuff so don’t tell…
Comment by Mr. President
You’re gonna get shot in the face for that.
Um, I saw posts of yours from 5 am this morning, and you’ve been here since I came online. When does the night shift start? Or end?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmWhat grounds do I have to assume I even get a check? I’m only 31.
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Number dyslexia.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:12 pmWhat grounds do I have to assume I even get a check? I’m only 31.
Comment by m12
31? That explains A LOT.
Well let’s say, just for shits and giggles, that you ARE going to get a check — your lofty principles would force you to refuse it or donate it to the poor, right?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmUm, I saw posts of yours from 5 am this morning, and you’ve been here since I came online. When does the night shift start? Or end?
Comment by Zooey — July 9, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
It’s always dark in the basement.
Hi, Zooey.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmNumber dyslexia.
Comment by Egreggious
oh….oh…..that was nice. Almost as good as Gonzo eating Poo.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmm12 is under the impression rich boomers won’t be paying income tax, estate tax, or capital gains. Ooops, that’s right, they may not –unless we stop those stupid Bush tax cuts for the rich.
m12 really has hired Enron’s accountants. He seems to think he can spend two decades looting Social Security and then suddenly change the rules of the game. Of course, it doesn’t bother him that Bush has set the record for deficits by spending wildly and cutting taxes for the rich.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:15 pmWell let’s say, just for shits and giggles, that you ARE going to get a check — your lofty principles would force you to refuse it or donate it to the poor, right?
I’ll probably give it to whatever political party promises to kill the system so future generations can lift themselves out of poverty without the burden of 12% payroll taxes.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:15 pmZooey,
I had to finish some reading last night, for a class.
I have to leave at 8:30am and I completed my homework at about 3:30 so I decided not to go to sleep at all, and instead made up some stuff about Leahy and Conyers involved in an evil Machiavellian conspiracy.
I filled CT in on the news when I got back from class (about 12:30) then I slept until about 6:00. So here I am, reporting for duty!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:16 pmm12 is under the impression rich boomers won’t be paying income tax, estate tax, or capital gains. Ooops, that’s right, they may not –unless we stop those stupid Bush tax cuts for the rich.
You mean the tax cut for those who are highest burdened by taxes, or the tax cut that keeps investment in the US?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:17 pmm12 really has hired Enron’s accountants. He seems to think he can spend two decades looting Social Security and then suddenly change the rules of the game. Of course, it doesn’t bother him that Bush has set the record for deficits by spending wildly and cutting taxes for the rich.
Actually, you’d have to pin that on FDR…I wasn’t the architect of this bottomless pit.
Nor was I part of the 1980s Democratic Congress that passed the ‘trust fund’.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:18 pmMr Pee was posting through the night. As Zooey said
It’s my belief that he doesn’t live in the continental USA. And his 24/7 lifestyle explains the occaisional zoned-out post with sexist abuse thrown in.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:18 pmIt’s always dark in the basement.
Hi, Zooey.
Comment by Egreggious
Aw crap, I was doing Mistress Z today, and I forgot…
Hi, Egreggious. :)
July 9th, 2007 at 9:20 pmOh, right, m13, you mean that investment that goes to Red China to make pet food and cough syrup.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:21 pmI’ll probably give it to whatever political party promises to kill the system so future generations can lift themselves out of poverty without the burden of 12% payroll taxes.
Comment by m12
But you’re willing to finance this stupid war that’s not even protecting your sorry ass.
Dimwit.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:22 pmAss meet head, head meet ass.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:22 pmAw crap, I was doing Mistress Z today, and I forgot…
Comment by Mistress Z — July 9, 2007 @ 9:20 pm
Actually it was Mr Pee who outed you. I think he is as obsessed with you as I am. (I was hoping to do Mistress Z today).
July 9th, 2007 at 9:23 pmOh, right, m13, you mean that investment that goes to Red China to make pet food and cough syrup.
If you believe that is so, it’s because US taxes and regulations have proven bad for commerce!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:24 pmCan we use the same logic for the $1 trillion annually spent on social security?
Comment by m12
Dude that’s only like 2% of our GDP, its the same miniscual amount we’re gonna spend on Iraq. Calm down, its peanuts.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:25 pmIf you believe that is so, it’s because US taxes and regulations have proven bad for commerce!
Comment by m12
God forbid something is Bad for Commerce!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:26 pmComment by ForTruth — July 9, 2007 @ 9:25 pm
I correct myself. That last post should be Social Security + Medicare.
But its closer to 8% of GDP.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:27 pmYou little spoiled brat libs need to stop eatin’ all that Ben and Jerry’s ice cream.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:27 pmGod forbid something is Bad for Commerce!
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 9:26 pm
Yeah. I need my pet food and cough syrup.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:27 pmGod forbid something is Bad for Commerce!
How are we supposed to finance Conyerscare with an economy that’s bad for commerce?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:27 pmPerhaps the only comment ever made by Joe Lieberman that I care to remember (from the 2000 Vice-Presidential debate), went as follows (I’m paraphrasing): “The best way to fatten the chickens is to feed the horse more oats.”
July 9th, 2007 at 9:28 pmQuestion: When will a war, and occupation by our military forces, that was ended actually cost more afterward than before our troops came home?
Answer: After most, if not all, of our troops in Iraq are withdrawn, U.S. taxpayers will probably still be paying for the “surge” of private contractor security personnel working in Iraq.
In other words, Plan A was that as Iraqi forces “stepped up,” our troops could “step down,” turning more of Iraq’s security over to trained Iraqis who could police their own sectarian civil war.
Since this pipedream hasn’t panned out like BushCo planned, they are apparently resorting to Plan B, which is flooding Iraq with U.S. taxpayer-financed private contractor security personnel, in hopes that in “stepping up” their numbers, that the number of troops in Iraq can be “stepped down” in an attempt to take some of the political heat off of endangered Republican politicians back home.
Of course, it costs over 10 times more for U.S. taxpayers to foot the bill for these private contractor security personnel than it costs to fund our troops.
Which will probably lead to an interesting Iraqi funding request coming out of the Bush White House in the next two years, especially if our troops over in Iraq do “step down” and withdraw. Why? Because BushCo’s request will probably be at the same level as what U.S. taxpayers have been paying for our troops to be in Iraq…if not higher. And all because BushCo has “outsourced” traditional military duties to their crony pals in the private contractor security business.
Which is why Democrats in Congress, and any sane Republicans that might be left, should be very clear in any “stop the Iraq War” funding bill that no more taxpayer money will go to any of these private contractor security firms operating inside Iraq. If the Iraq government wants to pay them, then fine.
Otherwise, our troops (all or in part) may have left Iraq, but U.S. citizens will continue paying through the nose for the neo-con Republicans insane Iraqi wet dream (wet as in wet with black crude), but with most of our money paying for these pirate, er, private security contractor mercenaries to continue Bush’s insane Iraq War, without any Congressional oversight or traditional military “rules of engagement” applying to their continued presence inside Iraq…in our name.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:28 pmGolly m12 someone similar to yourself was just saying earlier today that the current cost of Iraq was 1% GDP, in an effort to minimize the cost. Now it seems someone else wants give the impression of maximizing the social security and medicare program costs. That is interesting.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:30 pmHow are we supposed to finance Conyerscare with an economy that’s bad for commerce?
Comment by m12
i don’t know. Ending the occupation 2 months early should about cover it.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:31 pmAnd Chinese dog food and cough syrup is a sign of what lacks regulation can do for the market, right?
Frankly, it looks like 1890 all over again. Where’s the next Upton Sinclair to come along?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:32 pmActually it was Mr Pee who outed you. I think he is as obsessed with you as I am. (I was hoping to do Mistress Z today).
Comment by Egreggious
Mr President needs a mommy. Ugh.
Heh. As long as you’re over 25. :)
July 9th, 2007 at 9:32 pmi don’t know. Ending the occupation 2 months early should about cover it.
Good luck with that. Conyers plans to spend the entire $600b war cost in a few months of healthcare.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:34 pmGood luck with that. Conyers plans to spend the entire $600b war cost in a few months of healthcare.
Comment by m12
And how much is spent on it now? With how much “overhead”?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:35 pmAnd how much is spent on it now? With how much “overhead�
By the government? Some $700b annually or so to cover 90 million people.
That’s more than our Pentagon budget.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:36 pmPlan 9 B from Spaced-out Neo-cons
July 9th, 2007 at 9:37 pm#206
Nice try. SS and Medicare costs, as well as war costs, for previous years already exist. There’s no projection to ‘maximize’.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:39 pmm13 has a screwy view of economics. It’s not as if money isn’t being spend on healthcare now or that the payroll taxes don’t make Social Security stable. The fear of the Boomer bust is exaggerated; demographics have always taken this into account and it’s been the Republicans who have insisted on not preparing for it. That’s because they plan to stiff the Boomers.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:41 pmdavid,
Maybe m12 just spends WAY too much on his porn collection, and he needs the SS and Medicare dollars to pay his electric bill.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:43 pmYou little spoiled brat libs need to stop eatin’ all that Ben and Jerry’s ice cream.
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
You moron boot lickers need to pull your noses out of Dubya’s crack…you noses are turning brown.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:46 pmThe fear of the Boomer bust is exaggerated; demographics have always taken this into account and it’s been the Republicans who have insisted on not preparing for it. That’s because they plan to stiff the Boomers.
And Democrats are already stiffing my generation and plan to further stiff the next generation. Bravo!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:47 pmm13 has the typical neo-con mindset. They pervert Jefferson’s quote to read “Millions for defense, not one cent for social welfare.”
July 9th, 2007 at 9:48 pmLook at this fat goofy neocon coward. Send his son to Iraq. Oh yes he is a coward too.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:49 pmAnd Democrats are already stiffing my generation and plan to further stiff the next generation. Bravo!
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Well, the Dems plan to do a lot of things, but rarely does anything get done!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:50 pmm13 has the typical neo-con mindset. They pervert Jefferson’s quote to read “Millions for defense, not one cent for social welfare.â€
As opposed to Democratic/RINO mindset, which talk big about taxing the rich, then can’t figure out how to do it, and tax the upper middle class instead…..
Just look at the Johnson-Nixon-Bush1-Clinton AMT.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:50 pmHere is one for you.
What if Bush is not all that dumb? It is possible that he knowing the great threat of Islam to the west invaded Iraq with the intention of starting a pan-muslim civil war? Believing the Dems would win this past election and pull the troops out leading to the regional outbreak. The muslims would blow the crap out of each other, the US population would blame the Dems for the escalation, the republicans will win back the congress and the white house and life goes on.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:51 pmFirst of all that is all of HHS for 2007. That includes FDA (2 billion) and National Institute of Health, national Cancer Institute, Medicaid and Medicare. Which, by the way, Chimpy wanted to reduce by 45 billion over the next 10 years.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:51 pmAlso, the majority of that is Fixed spending on certain things like Medicare Plan B prescription plans which they could have negociated for alot less, but Republicans jumped in the way of that, so…
Discretionary spending is at about 68 billion.
Dept. of Defense was slated at 440 billion and that is less than 698, this is true. But, add the Supplimental spending Bill that just went thru, 120 billion for defense and you get 560 billion.
Then compare that to what they are really paying to help the sick….
and the slogan just doesn’t hold up.
But, thank again for playing.
m13, and what generation would you be? X, Y, er, LOST???
Funny, the Clinton years were economically sound and prosperous. It was the doofus Bush and his buddy boys in creative accounting over at Enron and WorldCom who diddled you lost boys.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:53 pmComment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
They get something done. They end up taxing doctors, lawyers, and other Americans who work hard through their own efforts and make a good income.
But they never talk about taxing away John Kerry’s muni bonds!
July 9th, 2007 at 9:53 pmFunny, the Clinton years were economically sound and prosperous. It was the doofus Bush and his buddy boys in creative accounting over at Enron and WorldCom who diddled you lost boys.
Hmm? Have you forgotten the negative GDP growth in Q3 2000 – Q1 2001?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:55 pmthis is what its all about for the psychotic neocons: their personal egos. kagan can’t admit that his whole fucking outlook has been a piece of shit from day one – its all about him. Never a thought for the massive death and destruction he was instrumental in heaping upon humanity. Him and his ilk – bush, cheney, kristol, rumsfeld, kraphammer, LIEberman, mccain, wolfowitz, rove, rice, powell, feith, and on and on – these are the worst of the worst. They will be written up in history along side Saddam Hussein, Stalin, Hilter, and the rest of the worst fiends of history.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:57 pmWhen I look in Thesaurus.com for “resident scholar” I get “local yokel power tool.” Is that right?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:57 pmAnd you don’t think fear of Bush did that? Bush is bad for business if you’re not one of his inner circle.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:58 pmAnd Democrats are already stiffing my generation and plan to further stiff the next generation. Bravo!
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Dude, your generation is getting screwed by the cost of Bush’s vanity war, which you support, and global warming deniers, such as yourself.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:58 pm“Have you forgotten the negative GDP growth in Q3 2000 – Q1 2001?”
ROFL… Dear heart, is that the best you can do? Alas that Clinton’s economic record beats the hell out of Bush’s, but them’s the breaks.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:00 pmAnd you don’t think fear of Bush did that? Bush is bad for business if you’re not one of his inner circle.
Hahahaha! Now you’re really reaching…..
1. Bush hadn’t even been elected in Q3 2000.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:01 pm2. Through most of Q4 2000 we didn’t even know who won the election.
3. What grounds did anyone have to ‘fear’ Bush? Well, maybe his father’s ‘no new taxes’ idiocy.
Dude, your generation is getting screwed by the cost of Bush’s vanity war, which you support, and global warming deniers, such as yourself.
I don’t really deny global warming. I just think the glorious UN should deal with the problem!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:02 pmROFL… Dear heart, is that the best you can do? Alas that Clinton’s economic record beats the hell out of Bush’s, but them’s the breaks.
In some ways, perhaps. But I’ll take Bush’s record over the disasters of Carter and Johnson!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:03 pm“I’ll probably give it to whatever political party promises to kill the system so future generations can lift themselves out of poverty without the burden of 12% payroll taxes.”
Dear heart, we already tried that system of yours, the unmitigated failure of which is why we now have Social Security.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:03 pm“In some ways, perhaps.”
ROFL… Lame, dear, really lame. The Clinton economic record beats Bush’s; deal with it.
“But I’ll take Bush’s record over the disasters of Carter and Johnson!”
Will you, dear? You might regret that, since neither Carter’s nor Johnson’s records were as bad as you seem to think. And you, of course, ignore the role of the Fed in the former case. Bush’s record, on the other hand….
July 9th, 2007 at 10:05 pmThis boov\b is married? To who Karl Rove.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:06 pmWill you, dear? You might regret that, since neither Carter’s nor Johnson’s records were as bad as you seem to think. And you, of course, ignore the role of the Fed in the former case. Bush’s record, on the other hand….
Passing the buck, eh? I guess that’s all you can do when you dump double digit unemployment, record oil prices, and double digit inflation on your successor.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:07 pmI don’t really deny global warming. I just think the glorious UN should deal with the problem!
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
Shit for brains, we/you are part of the problem/solution.
Why do I talk to you?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pm“What grounds do I have to assume I even get a check?”
Reality, dear. You should try it sometime.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pm“Passing the buck, eh?”
No, dear, just dealing with economic reality. You should try it sometime instead of that little fantasy world of yours.
“I guess that’s all you can do when you dump double digit unemployment, record oil prices, and double digit inflation on your successor.”
LOL… Dear heart, you really should do your homework, since your understanding of these issues is woefully incomplete and inadequate.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:09 pmDear heart, we already tried that system of yours, the unmitigated failure of which is why we now have Social Security.
The same Social Security that originally had a 1% tax rate and a life expectancy of less than 65? I wonder what we get after the current entitlement disaster.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:10 pmShit for brains, we/you are part of the problem/solution.
Yeah, so?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:10 pm“You mean the tax cut for those who are highest burdened by taxes”
No, dear, we mean the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals, those least “burdened” by taxes. Do try to keep up, won’t you?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:11 pmNo, dear, just dealing with economic reality. You should try it sometime instead of that little fantasy world of yours.
Not sure what kind of reality you are living in, but it’s not the one reflected by the results of Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:12 pmYeah, so?
Comment by m12
Typical. I hope you’re not planning on having children. They’ll likely have to live through famine.
sucks for them, eh?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:12 pmNo, dear, we mean the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals, those least “burdened†by taxes. Do try to keep up, won’t you?
Someone is delusional enough to think the average joe pays more than Buffett and Gates in tax dollars.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:13 pm“The same Social Security that originally had a 1% tax rate and a life expectancy of less than 65?”
Yes, dear, that one — a system that has been adjusted over time to do what it is supposed to do to handle the needs of its recipients.
“I wonder what we get after the current entitlement disaster.”
Dear heart, if you had done your homework, you’d know the answer to that question, just as you’d know that Social Security is in no way an “entitlement disaster.” But then, actual numbers aren’t your strong suit, are they, dear?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:14 pm“Someone is delusional enough to think the average joe pays more than Buffett and Gates in tax dollars.”
ROFLMAO… No, dear, I’m not. But in terms of percentages and “burdens,” the latter of which is your word, then yes, dear, the average joe pays more taxes than do Buffett and Gates. You really should do your homework, dear, since you’re just making yourself look more and more foolish with each post.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:15 pmDear heart, if you had done your homework, you’d know the answer to that question, just as you’d know that Social Security is in no way an “entitlement disaster.†But then, actual numbers aren’t your strong suit, are they, dear?
Believe me, I have done far more than my share of homework…and it includes topics far beyond your magic theories.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:15 pmROFLMAO… No, dear, I’m not. But in terms of percentages and “burdens,†the latter of which is your word, then yes, dear, the average joe pays more taxes than do Buffett and Gates.
Move the chains, move the chains!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:16 pm“Not sure what kind of reality you are living in, but it’s not the one reflected by the results of Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush!”
ROFL…. Dear heart, including Kennedy in that list is rather foolish of you. As for Reagan, considering that he had to pass the largest tax cut in history once his vaunted “voodoo” economics failed to live up to its promises, and had to continue to raise taxes every year thereafter, as did his successors, forgive me if I don’t take you too seriously.
As for the current resident in the White House, since you obviously know nothing about his economic record, forgive me if, once again, I continue to laugh at your ignorance.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:17 pmTypical. I hope you’re not planning on having children. They’ll likely have to live through famine.
sucks for them, eh?
Why will they have to live through famine?
July 9th, 2007 at 10:17 pm“Move the chains, move the chains!”
Dear heart, I simply used your own word. If you don’t like the word, why did you use it? In any case, dear heart, it’s rather foolish of you to talk in terms of absolute dollars when in other posts of yours, you’ve insisted on relative comparisons, just as is appropriate in this case. Do try to keep up, dear, won’t you? Otherwise, we’ll assume that you’re either ignorant or a hypocrite. Or both, of course.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:18 pmAs for the current resident in the White House, since you obviously know nothing about his economic record, forgive me if, once again, I continue to laugh at your ignorance.
Hahahaha! I understand you are counting on Harry Potter to make your numbers balance, but come on, you don’t need to be so obvious!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:18 pm“Believe me, I have done far more than my share of homework…”
Sorry, dear, but given your foolishness to date, forgive me if I simply take that statement as seriously as the rest of your silliness.
“and it includes topics far beyond your magic theories.”
ROFL…. Q.E.D.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:19 pm“Hahahaha! I understand you are counting on Harry Potter to make your numbers balance, but come on, you don’t need to be so obvious!”
Whatever you say, dear. Funny that you talk about needing ‘magic’ to make the numbers balance, given the track record of your hero. Personally, I’ve always felt that living within your budget was the best to make the numbers balance. Obviously you, and Bush, disagree.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:20 pmAnd back on topic, interesting that our dear little chum talks about magic and numbers, given Kagan’s complete disregard for numbers and his reliance on “magic” to insist that the “surge” is working.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:22 pmNeo-cons frequently have to resort to lies these days to make their points. It is the only way they can still make their flawed arguments. But in doing so they damage their own credibility. The surge has been a miserable failure. Anything Kagan says doesn’t change the reality on the ground. The results of the strategy are clear they are not mixed in any way. That’s why key senior republicans like Lugar, Domenici, Smith, and Snowe have come out against it. Kagan should go to Walter Reed and talk to the soldiers returning from Iraq and their families. Is this failed policy worth the life of even one soldier who saw his friends get blown up by IEDs or suffered a traumatic brain injury himself or herself? No it isn’t.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:26 pmIt’s been fun playing with you, dear, but alas, I have a life, so cannot hang around here as much as you do. I’m sure I’ll see you again and be just as amused as I was the last time I had fun with you (so tell me, dear, have you managed to figure out that your statement about Clinton “firing” the members of the JCS who disagreed with him was an outright lie?).
July 9th, 2007 at 10:28 pmCan I get some of what this fat pig is smoking???????????
I would so love to get that high at least once before I die!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 10:40 pmKagan is a complete and utter waste of humanity.
July 9th, 2007 at 10:51 pmShip his ass to the front lines and let him taste the fruits of his sweaty labors.
His wife is Kimberly — and she IS relevant to this story. So, by the way, is Fred’s brother Bob, who is another pro-surge advocate and is Editor at the Weekly Standard. Their father is Donald Kagan, who is also a neo-con “intellectual.”
Kimberly Kagan listed as one of the participants in her husband’s research team that came up with the surge plan in the first place. See his original report to AEI in January 2007, here: http://www.c-span.org/pdf/20061219_ChoosingVictory.pdf
Then she evaluated the surge plan in the Weakly Standard! Here:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/343fthms.asp
So the “Standard’s” Editor publishes propaganda written by his sister-in-law, praising a stupid-ass plan written by his brother, and doesn’t disclose this conflict of interest.
Btw, Kimberly Kagan is listed as an “Adjunct” at Georgetown University’s Center for Peace and Security Studies. Daniel Byman now is head of the Center, he’s a co-author with Kenneth Pollack — who is also an Adjunct there. (You know Pollack, author of “The Case for Invading Iraq Now”, and son-in-law of Ted Koppel!) David Edelstein is a professor in the Security Studies Program. Another co-author of Byman’s and again an Adjunct at CPSS is Nora Bensahel. Another Adjunct there is Bruce Berkowitz. So is Gerald Epstein. So is Bernard Finel (formerly Executive Director of SSP/CPSS, now in the US National War College). So is Jerome H. Kahan, and Robert S. Litwak, and David Mosher, and William Rosenau, and Justine Rosenthal, and Michael Scheuer (former CIA, who thinks we need a REAL war of civilizations), and Jeremy Shapiro, etc.
Sense a pattern anywhere?
[Thanks for clarifying, lestatdelc, ditmadden, veritas, Mistress Z.]
July 9th, 2007 at 11:03 pmI wish I could eat Ben and Jerry’s ice cream off of Karl Rove’s ass.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:11 pmMy asbestos flight suit prevents me from noticing all the crashing and burning I’m doing.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:12 pmLooks like a list of folks from a certain middle eastern country, and they aren’t muslim.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:14 pmHow can the Democrats be outwitted by these idiots and their salesmanship. These people are like the kids back in high school that couldn’t get a date but imaged how they could. Just like they are imagining they know how to fight a war. Maybe war will make them feel like men and make up for that lack of dates and too much time on the debate team.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:16 pmSo Georgetown University is really Haifa Institute for the Criminally Insane?
July 9th, 2007 at 11:42 pmYo, Fred: You’re looking more like Victor Buono every day. Better lay off the prime rib a bit. Eat a piece of fruit every once in a while, too. Maybe even do a pushup or two. The improved blood circulation might help your powers of observation.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:52 pmat the end of the day, that argument is not going to get us anywhere right now. …
Well, which is it? Right now? Or at the end of the day?
July 10th, 2007 at 12:16 amThey should put the American Enterprise Institute on a terrorist watch list. These clowns come up with more f’en ways to kill innocent people. Get these chicken shit mofo’s out of their think tank and into a real one and see how fast they crap their pants.
July 10th, 2007 at 12:28 amHe is just another chickenshit, chickenhawk, warmongering, coward who has never heard an incoming round or been in a firefight…he thinks war is for the profits of the military industrial complex and oil companies. Asswipes like this should be required to spend a year in combat to be eligible for their jobs. Shit would change.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:39 amI wish I could eat Ben and Jerry’s ice cream off of Karl Rove’s ass.
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
You are KKKarl Rove’s ass…clown, shit for brains.
July 10th, 2007 at 1:41 amSpeaking of Social Security, if the US does privatize it, I’m sure it will be as successful and popular as it is in Chile:
http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=PB&pubid=332
July 10th, 2007 at 1:56 amWhy do all these conservatives, from Karl Rove on down, have that pudgy, doughboy, raped-in-prison look about ‘em? Picture Pat Tilman’s chiseled face. Now picture the opposite. Yes, you all immediately pictured Turdblossom Rove, didn’t ya? Now look at Karl’s pudgy-cheeked, wouldn’t-last-a-day-in-boot-camp buddy above.
July 10th, 2007 at 2:05 amWhat are you gay ?
What do you think looks count for ?
Here’s what a member of the SAS, and the first NZ soldier to win the Victoria Cross since WW2 looks like…
July 10th, 2007 at 3:36 amhttp://www.defensetech.org/images/apiata.jpg
Pure trash.
You can tell this guy has never been in the shit in his life.
He wouldn’t know what to do if he was deployed in Iraq if his life depended on it.
Do us all a favor and become a food critic you fat sack of crap.
Please go heavy on the Trans Fats so you can go into cardiac arrest and die.
It would do the world good.
July 10th, 2007 at 3:40 amI have said several times, I think Bush would have to strangle a baby in full-view of these fascists and then they might finally say, maybe….that, you know this is a bad man. Fuggin’ fascist scum.
July 10th, 2007 at 4:11 amKagan’s fat neocon ass belongs in Iraq with the troops. I’m sick and tired of these warmongering bastards cavalierly sending our troops off to fight when they lack the courage to put themselves in harm’s way for causes they ardently espouse.
Retired US Army Vietnam Vet
July 10th, 2007 at 5:22 amKagan’s fat neocon ass belongs in Iraq with the troops. I’m sick and tired of these warmongering bastards cavalierly sending our troops off to fight when they lack the courage to put themselves in harm’s way for causes they ardently espouse.
Retired US Army Vietnam Vet
Comment by Fred Seamon — July 10, 2007 @ 5:22 am
Whereas people referencing their own military service, to imply that they have been in combat, when making statements that others should see combat like this never gets old.
Were you awarded a purple heart during your one year serving in military intelligence in Vietnam did you Fred?
July 10th, 2007 at 6:17 amThe AEI is not a “think tank” it’s a “belief tank!” They have an ideology and they twist facts into a pretzel to justify their belief system.
July 10th, 2007 at 7:56 amWhen you by 100 shares of stock for $50 a share, then the price drops to $2 a share, you haven’t lost the money until you sell the stock.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:04 amYou are just kidding yourself.
Well, speaking as an anti-war radical and invenerate necon hater, all I can say after watching that video clip of Kagan in action is that I want to see that fat, clueless gasbag on CNN, MSNBC and Fox News every hour of every day. He’s a better advertisement for the stupidity and immorality of this war than anything Michael Moore or MoveOn could ever dream up.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:18 amKagan is full of crap. When will he get it through his sick little head?
July 10th, 2007 at 3:59 pmI do not normally get into this back and forth bantering about politics. But, a question was asked that I have not noticed an answer for. This is not from Wikipedia, it is from my research on Cheney. After Clinton defeated Bush in ‘92, Cheney and Rumsfeld had precious little to do. Between ‘92 and ‘95, when Cheney went to work with Halliburton to help them secure as many asbestos removal contracts as they could, they were the innovators of AEI. It is completely their brainchild and its purpose is to determine how America can use foreign policy to increase their collective might across the world. It is a think tank that has as a primary focus the optimum way to use the U.S. military offensively, in order to create as much wealth as possible. That’s why we are in Iraq. It has been on the drawing board at the AEI since ‘92. Why do you think the $12 million were shipped shrink wrapped? It’s about money. If it were really about terrorism, we would have went into Pakistan. Hussein had brokered a deal with Russia to help them extract and refine their massive oil reserves in exchange for the two of them working as partners. We were trying to do the same thing and the mustache beat us to draw. There were too many players in the American deal and with Iraq, they only had to deal with Hussein and Aziz. And, frankly, I don’t care how chummy Bush and Putin appear in public, Russia does not trust us, and with good reason. Once again, it was about the bear and eagle. It always will be until China calls in the money that we owe them on the national debt. they have over 200 million INFANTRY soldiers alone in their military. We can’t even handle Ali Babba and the Forty-Thousand Thieves.
July 10th, 2007 at 5:47 pmWhy get involved in Israel’s fifty year long destabilisation of the countries around it?
God help Iraq, that they have oil beneath their soil. The American wars would not be fought if it were not the case.
July 18th, 2007 at 7:29 am