Escalation Architect Kagan: ‘Whatever You Can Say About The Current Strategy, It Has Not Failed’
Escalation Architect Kagan: ‘Whatever You Can Say About The Current Strategy, It Has Not Failed’
Today, the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank, held a discussion entitled “Assessing the Surge in Iraq,” featuring prominent Iraq war proponents like Fred Kagan, Gen. Jack Keane, and James Miller of the Center for a New American Security.
Bush’s escalation was largely inspired by a October 2006 paper written by Kagan, who stated that the U.S. needed to “re-enter Iraq in large numbers.” In today’s conference, Kagan claimed there was a “general agreement” that “violence overall is down” but refused to provide any factual evidence for those arguments:
The worst that can be said of [the escalation] at this point is that the results have been mixed. I frankly think the results are less mixed…We can argue about statistics, but at the end of the day, that argument is not going to get us anywhere right now. … Whatever you can say about the current strategy, it has not failed.
Watch it:
Desperate to defend his failing strategy, Kagan refused to provide statistical backup for his broad assertions that escalation is showing progress. In April, he claimed “we are turning a corner in Iraq,” again without statistical backup, only to see May become deadliest month for American troops this year.
Looking at some key statistics, it is clear that the escalation has been a bloody failure. Even by simply looking at the past couple of months — when Kagan alleges the escalation officially began — the situation has deteriorated:
– A recent bombing killed over 150 in Baghdad, “one of the deadliest single bombings, if not the deadliest, since the 2003 invasion.”
– 108 coalition soldiers died in June, the third deadliest month this year. So far in July, 28 have died.
– Approximately 2,600 Iraqi civilians died in June and 3,000 in May, up from 2,500 in February, when the first troops of the escalation began to arrive.
UPDATE: Laura Rozen has more from the AEI event.
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POS. I would force this idiot to bury every dead body in Iraq, so the images would never leave him alone.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:23 pmPosterboy for the neocons.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pm#1 ~ Then stand him up against a wall and give him a last cigarette.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pmWould be better to have him and his children take a trip, and face the insurgents themselves. The more this drags on, the more I am convinced that appointing Bush military governer of Iraq, and shipping him and the rest of these useless idiots over there, until they clean up the mess is the best option.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pmLook at that picture and tell me…..Why do all these NeoCon scumbags look like Rove’s illegitimate half brother? Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:32 pmWhy do all these neocons have that pudgy, pasty, sweaty look? Buncha bastards who would cry like babies if they had to face what our troops are dying for EVERY DAY. How brave of him to stand behind a podium as if he had a freakin’ clue about Iraq or anything else.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pmFred Kagan, another Straussian fascist member of PNAC and husband of Darryn Kagan who was a CNN anchor - “outed”! Once he was outed for the scum that he is, Darryn suddenly vanished from CNN.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pmGod…this is what we’re up against, people.
People who are so bull-headedly stubborn that they can willfully deny reality and honestly believe it. That’s so dangerous, considering their assuredness can often win people over who are wavering, despite how utterly wrong they are.
Hit these liars with the truth, hit them hard, and don’t let them get away with their lies.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:34 pmveritas, are you serious??? The same Darryn Kagan who was dating that other fat ass, Rush?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:34 pmriiiiiight. a rousing success!!
A success for the new Iraq oil sharing law. A success in being used as an excuse to violate liberty at home. A success in generating masses of profits for the weapons-makers….
I’d call the whole war a success on these levels.
Some further reading:
“Revealed: Why Your Sons and Daughters Died in Iraq”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/ revealed_why_your_sons_and_daughters_died_in_iraq
“What ever you can say about it you cannot say It has Failed” Kagan
Translation; Ok I am going to honor you with my presense unless you start to say the surge is failing.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pma new headline on google news…
anyone brave enough to go there and find out? … not me…
Who Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmFOX News - 23 minutes ago
By John Gibson For a long time we’ve been hearing ordinary people and big shot opinion makers say we should get out of Iraq. I’ve always wondered what these people say about what will happen when we leave.
…
WOOO HOOO Candyce, Great minds, etc!! We saw the same thing, didn’t we? And I think it is because they were all total nerds in school and are taking it out on the world in a safe Keyboard Kommando role, dreaming of the day they, too, can get a Woody getting other people killed and maimed.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmi want to be a neo-con, senior fellow, pundit, analyst, expert. i want to be wrong all the time so i can make millions and be on tv too. what a gig!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:36 pmDid you notice he said “the numbers are of no consequence”to him?
As if we didn’t know that already
July 9th, 2007 at 6:37 pmIf this surge is such a success, how does this nitwit nazi explain the 150 people killed this weekend alone? What are they smoking over at the PNAC these days? Perhaps they’re so psychologically demented, like Hitler, that they actually believe their own lies.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pmWHAT THE F*@K IS WRONG WITH THESE IDIOTS?????
July 9th, 2007 at 6:38 pmI find it fascinating how Darryn Kagen, this fascist’s wife, had infiltrated what was purportedly to be a station of “fair and balanced” reporting. What’s wrong with that picture?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:39 pmhe certainly has gained a lot of weight and changed his look since he left CNN
July 9th, 2007 at 6:39 pmhaha, upside00! I have thought more than once that Rove was the victim of bullies and all of this is payback. That smug little smile on his face all the time just screams, “Look at me now, azzholes.”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pmWillyloman: Of course the numbers mean nothing to this misanthrope. The deaths of innocent people for his demented, twisted neocon plan is of no consequence to this stone-hearted individual. I think Congress needs to begin investigating these PNAC “archictects” of this illegal war and have them testify about what they knew, when they knew it, and reveal their complicity in everything from 911, to the patriot act, to the Iraq War and everything in between.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pmLet the people’s “witch hunt” begin with every member of PNAC….and then move to the Federalist Society. Right there we’d have enough criminals to fill one of our small prisons.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmWhy are all these little shits so nerdy looking? So unattractive? Usually fat. Just take a look at the godfather Rove ca. 1972 on Youtube during a CBS Dan Rather thing. These are misfits. Uncool little assholes who probably have a tough time getting laid.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmRegardless of the reasons why the United States chose to invade Iraq or even why a US presence remains there today, it is clear that the Bush Administration is putting too many of its resources—OUR resources— into remaining there. To date, the war has cost over $340 billion dollars—money which could have been spent much more wisely and with better end results. It is estimated, for example, that the expenditure of a mere $19 billion would eliminate starvation and malnutrition worldwide. In a time when the current defense budget is $522 billion, the goal of eradicating world hunger is clearly well within reach. Thus, it is clear that the occupation of Iraq needs to end, and it needs to end now without regard to what this will do to United States interest in Iraq’s oil. There are simply much more important issues that need to be addressed.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pm17. veritas; from wikipedia “Kagan is Jewish. [15] Her great-grandfather was a Russian immigrant named Eiser Cohen who came to the United States through Ellis Island.[16] Cohen settled in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Her grandfather, Jack Kagan, later moved to the Los Angeles area.[17] Her mother, Phyllis Kagan, is a breast cancer survivor who has appeared on CNN discussing the disease. [18] Kagan has a younger sister named Kallan Kagan, the co-owner of a Brooklyn coffee shop, and an older brother named Mark Kagan.
her name is Daryn Kagan, and she did have an thing with Rush till 2006. Are you saying she married this Kagan?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:43 pmI wonder if people like Kagen and the other NeoCon Chickenhawks get fan mail from our trolls here and send back autographed pictures and trading cards for their basement-dwelling fun and games.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:44 pmBush’s escalation was largely inspired by a October 2006 paper written by Kagan, who stated that the U.S. needed to “re-enter Iraq in large numbers.â€
Bush relies on one paper from one neo-con and ignores the Baker Commission. And, as with all other results where his actions are based on information that fits his design of the World everything turns to crap.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:45 pmWhat would failure look like? At what point would these people consider it failed?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:46 pm#24: Yes.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:46 pmWhatever drugs these NeoCons are on, I just have to try me some.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pm#27 #24: Yes.
Comment by No-one in particular
I would make book on it!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:47 pmWhat would failure look like? At what point would these people consider it failed?
Comment by Bob
Well, since Tony has told us that higher body counts mean the surge is working, I would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pmIt is interesting that we have almost NO troll droppings on this topic. Maybe even they are having a hard time taking this NeoCon Kool-aid enema!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:49 pm#30 Well, since Tony has told us that higher body counts mean the surge is working, I would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
Comment by Candyce
It is that old (paraphrased) saying from Vietnam: “We had to destroy those people to save them.”
July 9th, 2007 at 6:51 pmupside, shhhh! Don’t rattle the bridge!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:52 pm#33 Candyce…. OK, we will be VEWWWY VEWWWY Quiet!
July 9th, 2007 at 6:54 pmHey, give Kagan a uniform and tell him to get out there on the front lines…
Just another fat, white Repugnican Chickenhawk who isn’t will to put his fatty ass on the line.
Disgusting.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:55 pmI would guess fewer dead people would be a failure for these gueys.
Comment by Candyce — July
That would explain tagging withdrawl as ’surrender’: fewer dead and therefore losing to terrorism.
Bizzaro World Logic
They say it’s a new kind of war, but then they use the conventional idea of armies and battlefield to say if we leave, they’ll follow, as if the military is a dam holding back water.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pmFred Kagan, another Straussian fascist member of PNAC and husband of Darryn Kagan who was a CNN anchor - “outedâ€! Once he was outed for the scum that he is, Darryn suddenly vanished from CNN.
Comment by veritas
Daryn Kagan is not married to this boob.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:57 pmWhen will these people just please go ahead and really eat the pudding or drink the kool-aid?
Humanity is going to win the Darwin award pretty soon if we don’t stand up and insist the laws be enforced against Bush, Cheney and these other fascists.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:58 pmAs soon as you have to say, “Whatever you can say about x, it has not failed,” it’s failed.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:00 pmHe shuts off any disagreement by saying ‘we’re not going to get anywhere by arguing about that,’ and ‘it’s just a matter of statistics.’ Neocon(victs) are too chickens**t to allow dissent. Just like the boss.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmI have this mental picture of wittle Freddie holding his breath until he turns blue, and whimpering, “It has not failed. IT HAS NOT FAILED!!”
Waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmPlease, tell me someone, anyone, what is the definition of success in Iraq. God save me from these idiots. We have been at this longer than WWII. I am not asking to see a duplicate of “Any Town” in Indiana. However, any stupid fool would expect to see substantive progress by this point of time.
These fools are idiots. They would rather see the United States broken militarily by following a failed strategy. Look at their excuses:
1. No one could have anticipated what happened. Screw these fools. Every knowledgeable military and foreign affairs expert with a background in this area did anticipate this result. Powell warned, the Sinsiki (sp) and many others knew exactly what would happen and what needed to be done (avoid the war or send in a quarter of million troops). Instead, Pissa_t Bush did not even know the religious and ethnic backgrounds at play.)
2. Facing an unexpected foreign enemy. Get off of it. This occurred because a retarded leadership failed to secure the country after winning the war against Saddam. They guarded the oil ministries and left the munitions dumps unguarded. They jer-k-d o– while chaos enveloped the country with such pleasantries such as “A free people will make some mistakes.” They disbanded the Iraqi Army and gutted the civil service of competent mid-level bureaucrats to ensure that there would be a maximum of confusion and resentment amongst the populations. They failed to train an adequate security force. They failed to engage Iraqi’s in rebuilding instead relying upon Haliburton and subcontractors using imported foreign labor. This was not an outside enemy. We grew 90% of it.
3. This is the central front in the war against terror. BS. It was not until we made it the central battlefront. That statement and the “Bring it on” moment placed the US in an intolerable position. We made it look like we had to win and win decisively or look totally defeated.
4. Cannot leave or chaos will result. Sorry, but those sectarian problems remain while we are there or not. Iran has already gained its influence and the administration will declare victory with an even less thought out exit strategy to try to placate voters before 2008.
5. AND MY FAVORITE: WE HAVE TO FACE THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE NOW. IT ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING TO GO BACK OVER MISTAKES THAT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED AND PLACE BLAME. Some would think that that process is called holding people responsible. Others would say that it constitutes critical thinking so that we may remove those lacking in skill to accomplish the mission and learn from our mistakes to better performance. The Bush argument simply constitutes a way to avoid accountability.
Of course, the neo’s think they are cleverly devising new strategies. But they know this is bunk. It is merely a face saving device to avoid acknowledging defeat until after the Bush presidency.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:01 pmWhatever you can say about the Bush administartion…
July 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pmFreddie: ” Its not my fault! Its not my fault! Dick made me write that paper! Karl ate MY paper.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmKarl Rove, Kyle Sampson, Fred kagan, Bill Kristol, Brad Schozman, Scooter Libby. All that machismo…Put them in loincloths and they would look like the cast of ‘300″.
-SD
July 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmthing is, I look at this guy and i don’t see someone with enough experience or presense to justify why anyone would take anything he says seriously. Much less base a Global Policy on what he says.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:05 pmHe is just the wannbe that the real AEI and PNAC leaders tapped to write the report. They weren’t going to sign their names to it, just in case it…failed.
thing is, I look at this guy and i don’t see someone with enough experience or presense to justify why anyone would take anything he says seriously
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 7:05 pm
Exactly what I thought about GW, seven, eight years ago. Why take any of these guys seriously? They sit in ‘think tanks’ all day and don’t live in the real world.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmShouldn’t the surge in Iraq be “assessed” by someone without a major conflict of interest ?
{silence}
Hahahahaha!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Isn’t that obvious!?!?!? You Lefties and Islamophiles will blame America!!!
Those who can think for themselves will blame the Iraqis!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmOne FACT DESTROYS THE NEOCON LIE. Regardless of the surge and any hard fought military outcome done by our voluntary military, the Puppet Government of Iraq has not, is not, will not succeed. That cold bitter pill of reality destroys and voids all the vain attempts of the Failure in Chief and his brownshirt Cabal at PNAC and AEI.
This was all for not because they are POWERLESS AND IMPOTENT to make others bow to their will if they do not want it.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:11 pmPOS. I would force this idiot to bury every dead body in Iraq, so the images would never leave him alone.
Comment by Juan C — July 9, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
—————————————————————————————
Would he actually have to dig?
Or could he just kick the corpses into a pre-dug hole?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:12 pm50. Comment by Heterodoxy
You are right. They vastly underestimated the resolve of the people of Iraq as well as the desire of the entire region to keep the US out of their “Plans for a New Middle East”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:17 pmBREAKING NEWS From Cell-Phone Central: We’re Winning!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:21 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
The repubs have already blamed Americans, Iraqis, (Always and Especially) Democrats, Terrorists, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Islam, Muslims, Radical Fundamentalists, Al Queda, Al Queda in Iraq, Al Zarrea, Philip, Chuck, and Dave, mu mu mu my sharona………
July 9th, 2007 at 7:23 pmCareful Mr. President. You are letting your Flaco/Ringo show. You should format your posts differently for each name you post under, that way it isn’t so obvious that you are posting under multiple screen names. If Faiz finds out, he might ban you. Probably not, so just keep on interrupting every thread.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:24 pmLet’s face it: When the Dems bent over and allowed the Rethugs to have their way with them, it was understood that the definition of “success vs. failure” would be a highly subjective definition as well as a fraudulent fictionalized version of the facts involved. It was the kiss of death to the only control this Congress had to rein in this renegade president and they blew it.
They can debate the definition of “success” until the cows come home, which they will certainly do and the Democrats set themselves, our military, and the people of this country up for another loss of total control over the outcome.
Semantics will define success vs. failure and the Rethugs will win once again as they will convulute facts and provid bogus assessments which will be pure fiction and who will have the guts to stand up to them to dispute it??? You guessed it: No one in this impotent congress has the desire or personal integrity to do so…..presidential candidates included - and on both sides of the aisle.
I have absolutely no faith that anything more than a debate of semantics will occur and drag this out for another 6 months. How do you define success? How does the next person define success?
It was clear to many, as well as the Democrats, that they were once again participating in crimes against the people knowing full well that this concept doesn’t have methodology pre-established to define what is considered “success” or “failure”. How many deaths and car bombs will equate “failure”?? It’s over folks and Bush’s criminal war machine will carry on with business as usual.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:27 pmDaryn Kagan Is married to this boob.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:28 pmDo the math….another six months @ a whopping $12 billion/per month = another $72 billion down the tubes! But what’s that when our national debt will be in the trillions soon???
July 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pmIf Faiz finds out, he might ban you. Probably not, so just keep on interrupting every thread.
Comment by Spudge_Boy — July 9, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Mr. Boy,
Actually, I’ve been emailing Faiz myself and snitching on the Lefties who steal MY name.
He usually responds within the hour to let me know the post will be removed and the IP will be banned.
I am not Flaco.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:30 pmFlaco is not Ringo.
Kagan went on to say (about Kagan):
“Whatever you say about me, I am not a balding fatassed sociopath.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmveritas, unless you’re speaking metaphorically, I’m pretty sure she’s single and still recovering from her relationship with Rush.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmI am not Flaco.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmFlaco is not Ringo.
The strategy has not failed.
I am not Flaco.
Flaco is not Ringo.
Comment by Mr. President
Then that means we have 3 separate idiot trolls on here.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmTrue Fascism has no room for debate or opinion of others. This is why Kagan doesn’t want to get into numbers. This is also why Snowflake today said there is no “debate”. The coup is almost totally in place and, if the Dems continue to drag their feet, it will be completed before Bush leaves office. Then they’ll again right the 08 election as well as the elections of their base so again control Congress. The handwriting IS on the wall right now unless/until we take “the next right step” which is immediate impeachment. If we fail to do the next right thing, in the words of Edward R. Murrow: “Good night and good luck!”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:33 pmCandyce: I’d been told that they were a couple. Perhaps you’re right. Let’s both do some legwork. My mind is always open to truth.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:34 pmSo, then what you are saying is that you fucking retards all post is the same lock step style. Very interesting that you all post exactly the same. Thanks for proving that you have no originality or thoughts of your own.
Flaco/Ringo/Mr President
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmisn’t it clear that america is getting tired of the current administrations lies and one sided view? how to fail: put a man in charge that listens to god
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmCongress took impeachment off the table in January and look how much damage they’ve accomplished to this democracy in 6 brief months. Can this country really afford 18 more months of self-destruction?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pm“at least on this panel anyway”
its hard to prop up a lie if you turn around and debunk you pasty lil turd-puff!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:35 pmComment by Egreggious — July 9, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
What are blabbering about?
——————————————————————————————-
Comment by upside00 — July 9, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
You are forgetting The Joker (who now goes by the name “Ace Ventura”), CT_V1, m12, michael, Patrick1, Jake, VV, The Captain, Chucky Schmucky, Troll, etc. etc. etc.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmDaryn Kagan Is married to this boob.
Comment by veritas — July 9, 2007
Sorry veritas, I like you and all, but eh. Nope. Aside from the fact that she was born Kagan, as I showed previously, he wears no wedding band and there is nothing about his married life on any Bio of him. nor her for that matter.
So unless Kagan married Kagan as a coinidence, eh… nope. Not hitched.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmUh huh, like we belive those are all separate people.
Come on Faiz. I already offered to setup your servers for you. Hell, if you need a hardware upgrade, I will provide the hardware. The software is free on the Internet. Maybe TP needs some more technical people if it has taken 3 years to implement registration.
By the time TP gets registration, the rest of the world will be thinking their posts onto the Internet using holographic laser technology.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:39 pmsomeone above mentioned how this administration “failed to secure the borders” when they said we were facing national security threats. Did anyone note the contradiction in that premise? It’s like leaving your front door wide open when you know there’s an escaped criminal in your immediate neighborhood. So we must ask ourselves WHY….why would they not take the obvious precautions??? Could it be that they KNEW the purported threat of terrorism was a work of fiction? Maybe that’s also why Bush had absolutely no reaction at all when his SS man whispered in his ear that we’d had a second plane hit the WTC?? No facial expression whatsoever for 6 or 7 minutes and instead, continued reading My Pet Goat with first graders for a photo op? His famous Photo Op will be his imfamous “photo flop” or prima facie evidence of the fact that he knew it in advance…..no human being, especially el presidente, would sit there unfazed and uncaring….reactionless….unless he expected it.
Besides, why did he believe himself to NOT be in danger when there was an attack on this country and immediately be ushered into the safety of a bunker?? Because he knew he was not in danger??? Thanks to Dennis Kucinich, more of the truth will be forthcoming….Stay tuned…..many feel that these actions hold the key to 911 which, when connecting all the dots, makes everything within their twisted “agenda” work out.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmMr. Boy,
At least, CT_V1, Flaco, The Joker (Ace Ventura), Troll, michael, Jake, VV, m12, and myself are.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmhttp://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 07/ 08/ weekinreview/ 08burns.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
July 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmKagan claimed there was a “general agreement†that “violence overall is downâ€.
Kagan claimed there was a “general agreement†[at the AEI] that [we would claim that] “violence overall is downâ€.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pmgood stuff at http://www.911truth.org - a bipartisan Truth Group
July 9th, 2007 at 7:43 pmyou’re fired up today veritas. yesterday you were all about the peace awareness and collective conciousness and an “awakening” to the universal move toward peace….
and now you sound like you want a firebomb and a ticket to DC.
Don’t get me wrong. i like it! Let’s go. I’m with you.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmAmerican Enterprise Institute = WAR MONGERS.
Who is in charge of and founded the AEI?
Anybody?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWillyloman: I stand to be corrected perhaps because my source was word of mouth. Thanks for the wikepedia info. Being with Rush until 2006 is bad enough and one has to wonder about her personal integrity but let’s keep digging. I’m curious now.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmBruce Kovener, Caxton and Ass.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmHow does the AEI differ from Jinsa?
Anybody?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:45 pmIf Fred Kagen is married to Daryn Kagen (former CNN anchor) that will sure be news to his wife Kimberly Kagan.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:46 pmJinsa isn’t in the US?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:47 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ American_Enterprise_Institute
They’ve always been a far right organization, but when Irving Kristol, Richard Perle and their neocon associates took over they went completely off the deep end into fascistic world domination fantasies.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:47 pmWillyloman: The human spirit, in it’s incredible versatility, can actually face the audacious reality of a level of continuing corruption while holding sacred space for the prospect of hope. These two qualities are definitely mutally exclusive. Yes, I do get fired up when this administration continues to rub feces in all of our faces but, once I clear off the stench, what lies beneath it all is an incredible belief in the elasticity and veracity of the human spirit.
P.S. I like you, too….and please keep most posted on Daryn Kagan. I’m checking with some of my sources about her right now too. Although I can’t assuage my suspicious feelings about her orientation in hanging around with a bigoted fool like Rush.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmWillyloman: I stand to be corrected perhaps because my source was word of mouth. Thanks for the wikepedia info. Being with Rush until 2006 is bad enough and one has to wonder about her personal integrity but let’s keep digging. I’m curious now.
Comment by veritas
lol. I don’t think she is capable of dating after being with Rush that long. Still in Detox
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmI saw that this AEI war-fest was on C-Span but I just could not bring myself to watch it. I saw Kagan testifying last week on a panel with Dr. Anthony Cordesman and General John Batiste and that one appearance will last me for a lifetime. Kagan, a scholar specializing in RUSSIA, is a smarmy, self-assured, fatuous idiot. Seeing him lined up next to Cordesman (who is an intellectual heavyweight and someone who takes your breath away by sheer dint of his wisdom) and Batiste - a true American hero, a soldier who has bled on the battlefield and knows what it means to fire a weapon and lose comrades - seeing the doughy Kagan next to these icons….well, it was depressing, to say the least.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmopps… Fred Kagan not Kagen. Typos aside, his wife is Kimberly Kagan, who is a think-tank wonk like himself and is NTO the former CNN Anchor and former Rush girlfriend (yuck).
July 9th, 2007 at 7:49 pmWillyloman: Your ideas about firebombs, etc. are definitely not consistent with me or my brand of spirituality….I live a peace agenda which has nothing to do with intermittent anger when infuriated by the antics of this administration. My orientation is strictly “peace”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:49 pmHow is the HUDSON INSTITUTE different from the AEI and JINSA?
Anybody?
Frederick Kagan and his father Donald Kagan, who is a professor at Yale and a fellow at the Hudson Institute, together authored While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today (2000). The book argued in favor of massive military spending and warned of future threats, including from a potential revival of Iraq’s WMD program
Frederick along with his brother Robert Kagan, who is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group, and their father Donald are all signatories to the neoconservative Project for the New American Century manifesto titled Rebuilding America’s Defenses (2000)
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmNOT … not NTO… damn.. can’t type for crap today.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmThanks for weighing in #89! Guess that solves that riddle for me although I hardly think more of Daryn Kagan with her Rush (yuk) affiliation.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:50 pmvis-a-vis: the semantics of “success” and “failure”….. the improbability of ever defining either of these objectively has already begun today with all of the Rethugs jumping ship. All of the talking heads were out today with their “success talking points”. The impossible argument has already begun. It will be a cavalcade of mental masturbation and nothing of substance will be decided or accomplished. It’s just another excuse to keep the war machine making money.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pmDonald Kagan is a Fellow at the HUDSON INSTITUTE?
Well lookie here…now we’re connecting some dots back to the Wurmsers and Dick Cheney:
Meyrav Wurmser, an opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a central neoconservative figure.
In 1996 she helped write “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm†and advised then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “to work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back†regional threats, help overthrow Saddam Hussein, and strike “Syrian military targets in Lebanon†and possibly in Syria proper. Coauthors of the report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith.
She also cofounded with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence, the Middle East Media and Research Institute (MEMRI).
According to her Hudson Institute bio, Wurmser “helped to educate policymakers about the Palestinian Authority two-track approach to ‘negotiating peace’ with Israel: calling for peace in the English press and with western policymakers while inciting hatred and violence through official Arab language media.â€
Although it describes itself as “non-partisan,†MEMRI–which has offices in London, Washington, Jerusalem, and Berlin–has frequently been accused of being nothing more than a propaganda outfit of Israeli intelligence.
According the Guardian, which dug up deleted pages from MEMRI’s web site through the internet archive, “Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri’s website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three–including [Yigal] Carmon–are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence. Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army’s Northern Command Ordnance Corps.â€
The Guardian’s Brian Whitaker also reported: “Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can’t recall receiving any. Evidence from Memri’s website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status.
Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises ‘the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel’. That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.â€
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1394
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmMr Pee-brain said
Is English your first language Mr Pee? I wasn’t sure of your sentence construction here. How do you complete the thought? “…are… all the same person”?
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmHi Ace!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmMaking notes here….PNAC includes the entire Kagan family it appears….Frederick, Robert and their pappy, Donald. From the sound of the book, it appears that they’ve had a personal agenda for a long time.
#93, unfortunately AI think your assessment will be all too accurate.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:54 pmKagan acting as judge and jury in the case of The people vs. Kagan declared:
“Whatever you say about the defendent (Kagan), his brilliant strategy of invading and occupying Iraq has not been a total and complete failure.”
July 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmHi Ace!
Do You Have any more retard conspiracy theories for us?!?!?!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:56 pmAce: Where have you been? The other day you provided so much documented information that I’ve been processing it all week….has gotten me into all sort of digging and investigation and I soooo appreciate you and the enlightened posts you provided to all of us! Please keep the posts coming because it brings us closer to discovery of the Truth. It’s clear that unless we get to the bottom of how all of this occurred, why it occurred, and what they used to implement their goals, we cannot begin the recovery process as a country.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:56 pmOh snap!
People are starting to provide links to wikipedia!!!
(psst… this is the stuff the US gov’t doesn’t want you to know)
July 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmI live a peace agenda which has nothing to do with intermittent anger when infuriated by the antics of this administration. My orientation is strictly “peaceâ€.
Comment by veritas
I’m all for peace. But how much longer do we Americans let this administration kill people in another land while we know what they are doing it for?
do we have a duty at some point? Beyond our shores? To stop exporting poverty and slave wages? to stop the terrorist behavior of this administration?
Peace is a luxury that at times must be earned.
Rosa Parks wanted peace. You think she thought about the police dogs the night before she refused to move? You think she thought about the racist cop who would arrest her and take her to jail where no one was looking? I don’t think she wanted that. I don’t think she wanted anything, but change.
they wanted peace when they marched from Selma to Montgomery, but Sunday got in the way. But they still marched.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmWillyloman: what I meant is that the spiritual prospect of hope and the ongoing anger & frustration with the daily litany of corruption are not mually exclusive states of being. And, although I get charged up and angry, my orientation has been and always be one of “peace”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmYeah, where have you been ace,
was it…
THE JOOOOOos?
We were worried about you!
July 9th, 2007 at 7:59 pm#
Hi Ace!
Do You Have any more retard conspiracy theories for us?!?!?!
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 7:56 pm
Ace: Clearly this moron is totally intimidated by your intelligence and knowledge…..not to mention your wisdom - all of which he is totally lacking.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmI have a simple solution - since so many neo-cons and conservatives and republicans think that the surge is working - lets draft them, train them adn send them over their to fight in their war - I think if they had to face this then there would be no surge - I think that for Foolish Fred to talk and for Cancerous Karl to open his mouth also demonstrates what America stands for - the right to share your ideas - I find the right side of the conservative spectrum to be lacking in judgement, compassion and basic intelligence, yet we must let them talk in fact encourage it so Americans can see what we have done to ourselves and perhpas not do it again. I am a registered independent and at this time see no reason to think that our situation will change with the candidates that are out there - so lets continue to listen, and laugh at teh person and cry at their stupidity and as the day when we must find new leaders keep this in mind
July 9th, 2007 at 8:00 pmOnly a week after a couple of hundred complaints here about Lieberman’s call for increased electronic surveillence in the wake of the London car bombs, there’s a story in the NYT that this proposal is being adopted by the end of the year.
I wonder why that’s received no recognition here.
The “most popular stories” box at the NYT not visible enough ?
That outrage we saw only a week ago yet again fake was it ?
Or maybe nobody’s connected those two stories (and still won’t) because TP lied to you about what Lieberman was calling for.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:02 pmDr Daddy,
If they think it is already working, why would they want to instate the draft?
That makes no sense!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:03 pmHis wife is not Darryn Kagan. His wife’s name is Kim. Don’t worry. She brings nothing to the debate.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:06 pmWho Will Be Blamed For the Aftermath if US Retreats From Iraq?
Comment by katy — July 9, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
—————————————————————————————-
Isn’t that obvious!?!?!? You Lefties and Islamophiles will blame America!!!
Those who can think for themselves will blame the Iraqis!
Comment by Mr. President
No, we will blame this Administration. After all, they started this debacle. Start with a lie, and the outcome is no better.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:07 pmComment by leftcoast — July 9, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
So, to you -
Bush = bad
Amjmanajihad = good
Christians/jews = bad
Islam = good
Democracy = bad
Stalinism = good
???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:11 pmThis Fearless Fosdick of a Fist F__ker should be bounced around in Iraq
July 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmfor a while, and then sent into Iran with Kristol, Rove, Cheney, et al, with just their diapers on. Maybe they can “make money” over there instead of over here. They gotta take their kinfolk with them. Just think of how much greener the USA would be without those pieces of crap here.
#5 Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
Yes, you are correct. Having no clear way to determine where a member’s chin ends and where the neck begins is in fact a prerequisite for becoming a member of the AEI.
Thank you for your inquiry.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:13 pmAEI Member Registration Office
These neocon morons have been wrong about everything. It’s time for them to slink back under their filthy rock and never ever raise their heads again except to apologize to the American people.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pm‘Center for a New American Security’…!
Is this PNAC (Project for New American Century)with another name?!!
Is Kagan sending any of his kids to Iraq?!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:15 pmMr Pee-brain, aren’t you a member of Jews for Jesus? Isn’t that like one rung below Scientology?? Aren’t you one of the Americans Yitzak Rabin once called “scumbags”???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:17 pmSay anything you like about the “current strategy”…apparently except the truth.
You can say whatever you like about the “strategy of the last several years. But it has failed and cost thousands of innocent lives.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:21 pmLook at that picture and tell me…..Why do all these NeoCon scumbags look like Rove’s illegitimate half brother? Is that a requirement for getting in the AEI?
My thoughts, too. Chris Vance, the Washington State Rapetard Chair is ANOTHER. Jonah Goldberg also.
Ate too many cheeseburgers and drank too many Slurpees in mom’s basement for too many years…
Just SLEAZY “people”; you can just visualize their GLUTTONY, and lack of care about their fellow man.
Sort of a fat slob George W. Bush…
OR a Dick Cheney/Jabba The Hut wannabee…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:22 pmI wonder if Mr. Pee looks like that.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:25 pmGoldberg is frightened by Barbra Streisand.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:26 pmWillyloman: what I meant is that the spiritual prospect of hope and the ongoing anger & frustration with the daily litany of corruption are not mually exclusive states of being. And, although I get charged up and angry, my orientation has been and always be one of “peaceâ€.
Comment by veritas
Then what’s your problem with Briseadh na Faire?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:26 pmLooking at some key statistics, it is clear that the escalation has been a bloody failure. Even by simply looking at the past couple of months — when Kagan alleges the escalation officially began — the situation has deteriorated:
Kagan alleges that does he ? What you mean in the same way you’ve been doing for the duration ?
The BBC has a graphic up that graphs how lame that is…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/ hi/ in_depth/ middle_east/ 2007/ iraq_surge/ default.stm
Notice how fkn short of a period it is between 20 June and the Sept assessments everyone is referring to ?
So short that without anyone noticing we are already a quarter of the way through it already ?
Yeah well apparently that deck still needs stacking, doesn’t it TP.
Because as we learned a couple of days ago, the success or failure of counterinsurgency strategies, contrary to all recorded history, can be measured over the period of 14 days. And in this case, 20 days beforehand.
Could you get any lamer ?
If memory serves me you people were calling for a withdrawal from Iraq and redeployment to Afghanistan, another counterinsurgency campaign. Begs the question WTF for ?
Has anyone checked whether December 2001 was more or less than 2 weeks ago so that we can declare that counterinsurgency campaign failed ?
Where’s the call to pull troops out of Afghanistan on the same basis ?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:27 pmThere’s troops there teaching Afghan kids trade skills to assist in employment and rebuilding. That’s clearly not going to be achieved inside 2 weeks. That’ll make it a complete failure right ?
I always picture Mr Pee-brain looking like Kip Dynamite.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:28 pmI always picture Mr Pee-brain looking like Kip Dynamite.
Comment by david
i picture him as Cartman when they are playing the online game? All fat and pimply, squirting his feces into a bowl that his Momma is holding.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:31 pmAnd the rest of the world will just blame America. This distinction exists nowhere outside your borders.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmI wonder if Mr. Pee looks like that.
Comment by Egreggious — July 9, 2007 @ 8:25 pm
————————————————————————————–
If you really want to know…
I’m 24y/o
6′1″
220+ lbs.
I have long brown “hippie” hair
I have a full “alkaida/hippie” beard, but I had a goatee first so it is longer in front.
I kinda look like the late Dimebag Darrell of Pantera.
But I do not believe in tattoos.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmBut I do not believe in tattoos.
Comment by Mr. President
Let me set you straight. Tattoos do exist.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pmThe stunning displays of ignorance would be my guess.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:36 pmVeritas:
My absence was not my idea…ask TP.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:38 pmHere you go,
This really looks like me except I don’t do that triangle thing with the hair under my bottom lip:
http://www.blognroll.com/images/dimebag_darrell.jpg
July 9th, 2007 at 8:39 pmWhy is every neocon a fat white guy? Is it something about their beliefs that make them bloat and turn pale?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:39 pmBut I do not believe in tattoos.
Comment by Mr. President
How does one “believe” in tattoos or not?
Do you not “believe” they exist; or do you prefer not to have them on your body?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:43 pmI do not believe that tattoos can be trusted.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:44 pmI do not believe that tattoos can be trusted.
Comment by Egreggious
Well, not the Muslim ones, at least.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmWell, Zooey,
If I shave and cut my hair, I can look like a completely different person.
But a tattoo is an identifying mark that I do not need.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmIs it something about their beliefs that make them bloat and turn pale?
-Comment by PG
No, it’s actually a reaction to all the blood they suck out of our troops and their other victims before ditching the bodies and going back to checking their online portfolios with their chubby little fingers.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmThe stunning displays of ignorance would be my guess.
Comment by Kilo — July 9, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
Pot meet “Fred Kagan-sized” kettle.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmMr Pee, English isn’t your first language, is it? What’s your mothertongue?? Jibberish???
July 9th, 2007 at 8:47 pmmore censorship, eh TP?
Why not just publish a list of topics that are forbidden, and then we’ll ALL know your true agenda.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmBut a tattoo is an identifying mark that I do not need.
Comment by Mr. President
Here’s a tip from Judge Daddy: Don’t ever get a tattoo where the Judge can see it.
If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Right?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmHey, I found a video of Mr. P having a snack. A must see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM7Rpf1×7RU
July 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm‘Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you, nanny nanny nanners, I’m sticking my fingers in my ears now. La la la la la la”
I think that’s what this douche is saying.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmThat’s not how a Democrat controlled congress works.
First it needs to be a major story in the NYT which gets picked up by most other media outlets.
Then the public needs to talk about congress investigating this for about a month.
Then congress talks about and asks for things other than subpeonas for another month.
Then they start anything resembling a serious investigation can start.
So it’s a shame the Iraq war hasn’t popped up as a major story in the US or a focus of public concern at any point since the Democrats took back both houses last year.
Maybe once they sort out who suggested killing those 4000 US attorneys for not prosecuting voter fraud they’ll get round to Iraq.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI forgot who I said this to:
Do not address me when you see my posts sir, and I will not address you.
Comment by Mr. President — July 8, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
Oh that’s right!
It was david!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmI think that’s what this douche is saying.
Comment by ForTruth
Mr Kagan or Mr President?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:52 pmOh that’s right!
It was david!
Comment by Mr. President
Why are you shunning david?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmMistress Z,
Well,
There was a time when I was thinking about getting a tat, but that was a different me.
Now, I really don’t care.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:53 pmMr Kagan or Mr President?
Comment by Mistress Z — July 9, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
——————————————————————————
Hey! I said nothing of the sort!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:54 pmNow, I really don’t care.
Comment by Mr. President
That sort of defines you, doesn’t it?
Um, where’s CT? Was he being naughty on TP yesterday?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:55 pmMr Kagan or Mr President?
Comment by Mistress Z
Actually Mr. Kagan. But now that you mention it…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmCongress took impeachment off the table in January and look how much damage they’ve accomplished to this democracy in 6 brief months. Can this country really afford 18 more months of self-destruction?
Doh! Do you really think King Bill and Queen Hillary want Miss San Francisco stealing their right to be the 44th President? Nope!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmPresumably for comedic reasons, you chose to follow that comment with this one…
July 9th, 2007 at 8:56 pmHey! I said nothing of the sort!
Comment by Mr. President
ForTruth called someone a “douche,” and I am inquiring as to which of you his is referring. Mind?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:57 pmUm, where’s CT? Was he being naughty on TP yesterday?
Comment by Mistress Z — July 9, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
————————————————————————-
Here was here earlier.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmThat was not him yesterday.
Remember the name SARA TAYLOR, folks!!!
The former Rove aide, who history will record,
exposed the TREASON of the Bushes and PNAC….
Do your PATRIOTIC DUTY, Sara.
Tell the TRUTH about the WAR CRIMINALS who “run†OUR government!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmHey, I found a video of Mr. P having a snack. A must see.
Comment by willyloman — July 9, 2007 @ 8:49 pm
Ughhh! Imagine that with tattoos!
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmI have a simple solution - since so many neo-cons and conservatives and republicans think that the surge is working - lets draft them, train them adn send them over their to fight in their war
Can we use the same logic for the $1 trillion annually spent on social security?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmMr Pee-brain said
Would that “different me” be CT, Ace Venture, ValianttheHater, or The Joker?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmOops,
He (CT) was here earlier.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:59 pmm12 has hired Enron’s accounts.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:00 pmSara “I do not recall” Taylor?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:01 pmMr. P can’t get tats because of the fur.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmCan we use the same logic for the $1 trillion annually spent on social security?
Comment by m12 — July 9, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
Try to stay on topic, dingleberry.
See? When I inquired about ForTruth’s “douche” reference, I was still on topic. Clever, huh?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:02 pmKagan was formerly employed by Pillsbury in the company’s Doughboy Division.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmSara “shot in the face with a shotgun by accident” Taylor?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmHe (CT) was here earlier.
Comment by Mr. President
Ah, I see. I only got here a little while ago.
Is CT getting a life and leaving you behind?
July 9th, 2007 at 9:03 pmAssuming that the Neanderthals at AEI have made substantial investments in multi-national oil companies, defense contractors, etc., I’m sure that the surge is working extremely well–at least for them and their like. The biggest threat to these profits is the prospect of enough voters in this country getting up in arms to actually result in a meaningful curtailment of the United States’ imperialism. Fortunately for them, the MSM has been quite cooperative in making sure that coverage of the carnage in Iraq is kept to an absolute minimum.
Since most of the funding for this war is (or at least was) kept off-budget and is borrowed from the Social Security trust fund and foreign countries, most economic pain has been delayed. Since an ever greater share of the tax burden continues to be shifted away from corporations and wealthy individuals to those who are less fortunate (i.e., those who can’t afford to attend $1,000 a plate political fundraisers), when the bill does come due, those who work for a living will have to shoulder the lion’s share of the burden. As for the corporations, what do you suppose the corporate income tax rates are now like to Halliburton, since relocating their headquarters to the United Arab Emirates?
So, when the glut of baby boomers reaches