Snow: ‘There Is No Debate Right Now On Withdrawing Forces’ From Iraq
Snow: ‘There Is No Debate Right Now On Withdrawing Forces’ From Iraq
The New York Times reported today that White House officials are heatedly debating whether President Bush “should try to prevent more defections” of Republican war supporters by announcing a “gradual withdrawal” of U.S. troops from certain areas of Iraq.
But in comments to reporters this morning, White House spokesman Tony Snow insisted that the administration is still committed to staying the course:
“There is no debate right now on withdrawing forces right now from Iraq,” Snow said.
“The president has said many times that as conditions require and merit that there will be in fact withdrawals and also pulling back from areas of Baghdad and so on,” the press secretary said. “But the idea of trying to make a political judgment rather than a military judgment about how to have forces in the field is simply not true.”
Indeed, according to Robert Novak, the administration is actively trying to reverse the trend among conservative senators, with National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley making visits to Capitol Hill to lay the groundwork for blaming a “depleted U.S. military” for the failure of Bush’s escalation strategy:
Hadley called his expedition a “scouting trip,” leading one senator to ask what he was seeking. It was not advice on how to escape from Iraq. Hadley appeared interested in how previous supporters had drifted from Bush’s course. In the process, he planted seeds of concern. Some senators were left with the impression the White House still does not recognize the scope of the Iraq dilemma. Worse yet, they see Bush running out the clock until April, when a depleted U.S. military will be blamed for the fiasco.
Novak adds that Hadley’s visit to the Hill “increased latent fears of the U.S. military being made the fall guy — a concern shared by many retired and some active senior officers, including a current infantry division commander.”
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149 Responses to “Snow: ‘There Is No Debate Right Now On Withdrawing Forces’ From Iraq”
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Tony "Joseph Goebbels" Snow speaks again...
July 9th, 2007 at 12:48 pmSays Phoney Faux, with fingers in ears, while humming LALALALALALA!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 12:49 pm“But the idea of trying to make a political judgment rather than a military judgment about how to have forces in the field is simply not true.â€
If only the administration had stuck to this principle four years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:49 pmI believe him. There's hardly any debate coming from Democrats, so why would we expect any debate within Chimpy's Lair?
July 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pmit is going to be interesting to watch how the world ends, isn't it?
we know we have a homicidal maniac in the vp, and a retarded drunk in the potus. the senators on their side all appear as impressive as they congratulate themselves on getting that 100K bribe.
and all this notwithstanding, congress won't do anything to impeach them and stop their actions. why?
July 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pmWithin the White House there is no debate, it is just outside of that bubble.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:50 pmof course there isn't. Why? Because they don't plan on leaving. period.
But, this war was immoral and unconstitutional from the start. The time to end it is now.
Not next year, and not in the fall.
Today, not tomorrow. Now.
Some further reading:
"Top-10 Reasons to Get out of Iraq Now"
July 9th, 2007 at 12:51 pmhttp://www.populistamerica.com/top_ten_reasons_to_get_out_of_iraq_now
Tony Snow: "Black is white, day is night, right is wrong. And vice versa when expedient."
July 9th, 2007 at 12:51 pmProbably sending out feelers about re-instituting the draft.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:51 pmEither way. I don't care. Just withdraw your forces from the White House please and let the adults work on it.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThis guy is strating to look more and more like "Herman Monster".
July 9th, 2007 at 12:52 pmIn other news, we have always been at war with Oceania.
Careful, Tony...leading scientific research shows that lies are carcinogenic.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:53 pmIt's time to go for the juggular with these F&*%ers ... from all sides - they're in denial about everything and dangerous as hell....
July 9th, 2007 at 12:55 pmwhen a depleted U.S. military will be blamed for the fiasco.
Indeed, GDumbya will attempt to use this excuse. However, as usual, he will be 180 degrees off.
It is his fiasco that needs to be blamed for a depleted military.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:55 pmTony's right.
No debate. Only agreement. That the troops should come home.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:56 pm“There is no debate right now ... †Snow said.
in other words, there is...
July 9th, 2007 at 12:56 pm...
but it's just talk, more lies...
...
Of course there's a debate going on. The White House is being beseiged. And Phoney Snowjob is there to play defense(and lie thru his teeth).
July 9th, 2007 at 12:57 pm“There is no debate right now on withdrawing forces right now from Iraq,†Snow said.
Well then, Tony, I guess you're in for a pretty big shock.
July 9th, 2007 at 12:59 pmSo.
Who cares?
When Bush and Cheney want to do something, they will do it. There is no need to discuss!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:00 pmYeah no debate cuz YOU just shut it down. Ass.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:03 pmHmm... the NYT says one thing, tony Snow says another... whom to believe?
Any chance BOTH are lying?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:03 pmNo debate over at the Vice Cheney Branch of government.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:04 pmWhen Bush and Cheney want to do something, they will do it. There is no need to discuss!
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
You need a Daddy figure really bad, don't you, son?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:04 pmSnow and Novak two born liars. Why is anyone with a brain still quoting either one of them about anything. Everytime either writes or opens their yaps they should immediately be labeled as liars. Let us show some real Progressive thinking here.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:05 pmMr. Take,
July 9th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI don't see how your comment pertains to my assertion.
Would you care to elaborate, or are you just an idiot?
Snow must feel a little like Dana Perino after saying the WH has no plans to commute or pardon Libby.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:07 pmAs Cheneymack roams the halls of the 4th Branch with his shotgun, there is no debate.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:08 pmIraqi FM: Turkey massing 140,000 troops
rest
July 9th, 2007 at 1:09 pmhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_turkey_2;_ylt=Aux0adiHFtNW.3ma2HF7IJ2kz3wV
Could they pick a picture that makes Snow look more demented?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:09 pmI would love to see the Press Corps collectively stand up, call Tony Snow a liar and walk out of the Press Conference without writing down anything he says.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:10 pmWhat happenes if the Press refuses to print any more of what these liars in the WH continue to put out?
They have to blame the military. Since they've blamed everyone else, they can't leave anyone out .
July 9th, 2007 at 1:10 pmBeware, Mr Pee is asserting again. You may get some on you.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:10 pm28. Apoli. We supported by neglect Turkey's attempt to wipe out the Kurds a decade ago. They only survived by fleeing to Iraq. And here we go again.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:11 pmZimzone (#26): Not really. I'm pretty sure Dana and her handlers are happy with the job well done. They got out their propaganda and don't really care if they're shown to be liars / obfuscators later on. Once again, this is the mentality of the people in the administration: truth doesn't matter, only the mission which - for Dana and Tony - is to obfuscate, spin and put up a smokescreen of fear, uncertainty and doubt over any allegations of wrongdoing.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:14 pmMr. Take,
I don’t see how your comment pertains to my assertion.
Would you care to elaborate, or are you just an idiot?
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
The trolls love to bait you into worthless discussion. Please ignore them. They do NOT contribute to the discussion at hand. They are only here to muddy up the waters.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:15 pmSeriously, what the hell goes on in the minds of the extreme right?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:16 pmNo debate? And they believe this crap, and expect the people to follow?
Heck, I'm sure there is also no secterian violence in Iraq, that the majority of the people believe we shoud stay.
Other non news:
There is no heat wave in the West, the Nationals are predicted to win the World Series, now is the time to sell your home, gas prices are lower than ever, and national debt? What national debt? We are in a decade of surplus!
Oh, and any negative news, it's always Clinton's fault!
(I was going to joke about I'll have what Snow's smokin', but since he is courageously fighting cancer, and is probably on many different anti-Neoplastic agents, it wouldn't be as funny. Though, I have heard of patients "inhaling the ganja" to offset the nausea associated with chemo.... visualizing Snow experiencing the Purple Haze gave me quite a chuckle)
"You need a Daddy figure really bad, don’t you, son?"
Read John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience. It is a great book and it describes the 28%ers perfectly. They are people who can't function without an authority figure in their lives who can tell them what to do and how to think. I have to say that it is very scary that 28% of the people in this nation fall under that description.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:17 pm33: You do realize that PKK really is a terrorist organization? EU thinks so, too.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:18 pmI agree. Just remember they are sitting in a dark room with pee stained pants and pictures of St. Ronnie on the wall. Leave them to themselves. Eventually, the revolver talking to them in the corner will be their only friend.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:18 pmThey are people who can’t function without an authority figure in their lives who can tell them what to do and how to think. I have to say that it is very scary that 28% of the people in this nation fall under that description.
Comment by Katie
i used to be a fan of Hardball and Mathews, but after so many "daddish" comments, I think he too falls into this category.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:20 pm#40: Maybe, but it can't beat opioids - like the codeine sulfate in these two, lovely bottles of cough syrup I'm just about to consume.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:22 pmBut in comments to reporters this morning, White House spokesman Tony Snow insisted that the administration is still committed to staying the course:
And we all know what "course" that is....the wrong course!!
This President seems hell bent on tanking his own party, doesn't he? I guess that's in keeping with his appetite for self-destruction though.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:23 pm#41 I think that Chris Matthews is experiencing a "second childhood" with his antics of late. Perhaps he's lobbying for a new comedy series?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:24 pmMr. Take,
I don’t see how your comment pertains to my assertion.
Would you care to elaborate, or are you just an idiot?
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Mr Pee, my assertyion was based on the well-known and demosntrated authoritarian leanings of the right -- their penchant for preferring "strong, masculine leader-types", their willingness to hand over all power of decisions to these leaders and to trust whatever they say.
Your assertion that "When Bush and Cheney want to do something, they will do it. There is no need to discuss!" seems to align with this tendency. Presumably, whatever they want to do is a-okay with you (and I would venture to guess that this is true whether what they want to do is legal within our Constitution or not).
THAT is how my comment pertains to your assertion.
So I guess YOU'RE the idiot. But that's not much of a guess -- it's fairly common knowledge 'round these parts, son.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:24 pmI love it: NO DEBATE??? WTF??? Of course, there's an ongoing debate about this war. In fact, this is the precise debate which is securing an easy 08 Republican loss right now. Only a moron like Snow and Bush would claim that there is no "debate". In point of fact, this government of ours is an ongoing debate and discussion whether these "paid employees" of ours want to believe that or not.
Time to fire Bush is here! He can take his Snowjob along with him. Maybe Snowflake will also go on a month's vacation in August?
What I think is that Bush is actually "going into hiding" in August.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:26 pmVeritas: I'm sure you've read about how GWB likes to invite intellectuals, historians and philosophers to WH in order to discuss what his legacy will be. I'm pretty sure he thinks that any legacy will be better than no legacy and that abandoning the current course in Iraq would lead to the latter. So, he'll take a failed war, a destroyed country and a crippled US military as his legacy rather than admit defeat by changing the course.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:26 pmAnd if the illustrious press corp did stand up to Snowjob and call him a liar, they would regain their lost credibility with the american people in a hearbeat!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:26 pmAll you gotta do is look how much the right is drooling all over Fred ( Daddy) Thompson. either that or they have a thing for actors.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:27 pmTP! TP! TP! I don't get it. Why would you choose to publicize Novak?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:27 pmAll of a sudden, he is a credible source for you just because he says something that you can use to back your opinion.
It is all lies! Just end this war now, Mr. President.
With each passing day and every new twist displaying greater culpability and complicity, we come one step closer to viewing the true "enemy within".
July 9th, 2007 at 1:27 pmComment by FAKE-Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Reported!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:28 pmWell, it's funny how the press forgot how to parse a sentence after Clinton left office.
"There is no debate right now on withdrawing forces from Iraq" translates "We had the debate last night".
July 9th, 2007 at 1:28 pmSo, Tony, why would debate about this be a bad thing? If these cowards use a depleted military as the excuse, then who depleted it? I don't think their blame Clinton will work there, although it'll be attempted.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:29 pmMr. Take,
Bush and Cheney can what they please for all I care, as long as it doesn't stop me from doing as I please.
Thank you for the elaboration.
Go F*ck Yourself,
Mr. President
July 9th, 2007 at 1:30 pmThe Explainer Guy: Of course, he will which is illustrative of his profound degree of mental illness - just read: Bush on the Couch by Justin Franks, M.D. - he's been mentally ill since his youth. As far as a "legacy", his is already written and will be "the worst president EVER in the history of the united states". Nothing he can do now will change that. Staying the course will only enhace it a bit further and add to it: "who took the united states down the toilet with him". We're playing with fire here and we're going to get burned by him if we continue to play his games.
Clearly, the ONLY card this congress has in their deck (having already lost the "pursestrings card") is the IMPEACHMENT CARD.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:30 pmhahahaha....Snowjob knows one thing for sure: Bush is incapable of debate - something which we all saw up close and personal during his appearance as the national buffoon during his debates with Kerry......scary stuff!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:31 pmNo Debate - That's why they're all running around like morons trying to quash the mass republican defection??
July 9th, 2007 at 1:32 pmVeritas: I’m sure you’ve read about how GWB likes to invite intellectuals, historians and philosophers to WH in order to discuss what his legacy will be.
Comment by The Explainer Guy — July 9, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
TEG: isn't is odd how the President will invite "intellectuals, historians and philosophers" to the White House to discuss his legacy, but not to seek their advice on matters of war, economic philosophy or governance? (Unless, of course, they are aligned with the Heritage Foundation or AEI.)
The man is a self-centered little brat.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:33 pmMr Pee-brain said
spit take was refering your obvious need for a Furher figure. We know you're a closet Nazi. And we know you're an idiot.
Of course Bush/Cheney can't just do what they want. The dos and don'ts are spelled out in the Constitution. And, try as he might, Bush is not an Emperor and he can't ignore the Constituition, even through illegal signing statements.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pmAnd perhaps Snowflake's legacy will be that he was the "biggest media whore in the history of the united states"....lemesee though....will he trump little Scottie? I think so. Scottie defacated in his undies and then slid out of town - Snowflake's just going to dry up the hard way.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pmSpit Take: Yes, I've heard that. Amazing that one with an intellect would risk being in the presence of such a misanthrope?? Obviously, he has no ability for intellectual repartee with any of these scholars. Guess it's the same phony-baloney like the books he claims to have read and we know his literacy level is in the vicinity of My Pet Goat??
July 9th, 2007 at 1:36 pmMr. Take,
Bush and Cheney can what they please for all I care, as long as it doesn’t stop me from doing as I please.
Thank you for the elaboration.
Go F*ck Yourself,
Mr. President
Comment by Mr. President — July 9, 2007 @ 1:30 pm
Thanks for amply demonstrating two things: your indifference to any of the administration's illegal acts, and also your dedication to the civilized debate that TP struggles to foster here.
You are remarkably revealing this morning, Mr Pee. And, again, there's no surprise at your true nature.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:37 pmThe man is a self-centered little brat.
Comment by spit take — July 9, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
Spit Take: I wish it were simply so! This would indicate simply an ego problem or a break with reality regarding his self-importance. We will discover that the degree of serious psychopathology is far worse than a mere egomaniacal tendency. We're looking in the face of some very serious psychiatric problems here.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:39 pmMr. Take,
July 9th, 2007 at 1:40 pmThank you, I try to be true to myself and others.
It was good to converse with you today.
your indifference to any of the administration’s illegal acts
It's not illegal if the President does or orders it.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:41 pmWhen one's ego is damaged, as his so obviously is, it's generally an isolated problem and, unless he is harmful to himself or to others, it can be easily managed with therapy. However, when the psychopathology is so profound and compounded by years of denial, wherein the individual is not only harmful to himself but to an entire country.....well....it's a serious problem.
He had no problem tanking the lives of everyone associated with his business ventures, did he? Those lives he mangled and destroyed.
Now he's got bigger targets in sight. ..... this country as well as Iraq. Perhaps it's time to drag out the Baker Act?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:42 pm#
your indifference to any of the administration’s illegal acts
It’s not illegal if the President does or orders it.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
IN YOUR DREAMS, BUDDY!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:42 pmNo debate needed. Once you spineless dums receive your bone-marrow transplant, you'll receive the opportunity to screw up royally in the White House.
November 1994, here we come.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:43 pmNo, I'm sorry to burst your bubble of utopia, veritas, but this is the new world order. The president can't break the law since he makes the law.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:45 pm"EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE"??? Let's see: Today it's Monday so we can use executive privilege and be part of the Executive Branch; tomorrow is Tuesday and we'll say that we're not part of the Executive Branch; then on Wednesday, we'll belly up to being the Exec. Branch again....and on and on....and on....go the lies. Congress must realize that they're beginning to be the laughinstock of this country?? They CAN do something about this contempt of congress - but will they grow the balls to do so??????
Only time will tell....tick....tock....tick....tock
July 9th, 2007 at 1:46 pmIt's a race to see who will look the worst by the end of this administration, Dubya or Snowjob. I've gotta say that it's a toss up at this point. From a purely death mask perspective I think Snowjob has got it, from a haggard "I don't know how much longer I can keep these balls in the air" perspective Dubya's got it.
Man these fellas look bad. I know it's not their conscious plaguing them so I can only figure the nightly ritual of playing quarters is killing them.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:47 pmVeritas: your correction is noted. I did over-simplify the President's mental condition and I think it's pretty clear that there are serious pathologies going on there that have always been hidden in plain sight.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:47 pm#70 I guess you failed Constitutional Law 101 then? Obviously, the president IS NOT the legislative branch as much as he'd like to believe that he is....
Get yourself some education before making a moron of yourself on these threads!
#
your indifference to any of the administration’s illegal acts
It’s not illegal if the President does or orders it.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
Your a total uneducated buffoon, Mr. No One! At least you selected an appropriate moniker, didn't you?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:47 pmOf course Bush/Cheney can’t just do what they want. The dos and don’ts are spelled out in the Constitution. And, try as he might, Bush is not an Emperor and he can’t ignore the Constituition, even through illegal signing statements.
Comment by david
Sorry, but in reality, the facts prove that as long as Nancy "Table Phobic" Pelosi keeps impeachment off the table, the President can and Has been doing what the f*ck he wants to do, even violating the Constitution, that is why we do need to Impeach so badly.
And before someon argues that there are not enough votes to convict in an Impeachment, tell me how many DAs let a murderer run around free, killing other people because of a fear a jury might find them not guilty????
July 9th, 2007 at 1:48 pmThe title of the book on Bush's psychiatric pathology (one of the many) is entitled: BUSH ON THE COUCH by Justin A. Frank, M.D.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:48 pmYou wonder why "impeachment is off the table"? Because Dubya serves a purpose right now. He is our target. He is the fall guy.
The AEI's and the Heritage Foundations and the Carlyle Groups aren't done with him yet. When they are, the Council on Foriegn Policy will give the nod, Pelosi and Reed will grandstand the reason (wishes of the American people...ect) and they will be gone.
But the sickness, the cancer will still be there. With a new host and a new line. This is on-going. They won't give up. The Global Eccomony wont wait for our elections. Or our impeachment.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:49 pmOf the Republicans that have broke rank with the administration - how many of them are up for re-election in '08?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:49 pmObviously, the president IS NOT the legislative branch as much as he’d like to believe that he is….
As I said, this is the new world order. You're just talking about what used to be.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:49 pmMr. No-One might be Mr. President.....they're synonyms anyway and probably one in the same idiot troll.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:49 pmIt’s not illegal if the President does or orders it.
Comment by No-one in particular
That is total Bullsh*t
July 9th, 2007 at 1:50 pmNo, I’m sorry to burst your bubble of utopia, veritas, but this is the new world order. The president can’t break the law since he makes the law.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Technically, this is true. Since Bush has done away with that pesky Legislative Branch via his signing statements, and taken on the responsibility of the Judicial Branch, at least in cases that are important to him, we now have an Emperor. Or a CHimperor, as the case may be.
I wonder how the wingnuts will take to an all-powerful, New-World-Order Hillary Clinton in a year and a half?
July 9th, 2007 at 1:50 pm#
Obviously, the president IS NOT the legislative branch as much as he’d like to believe that he is….
As I said, this is the new world order. You’re just talking about what used to be.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Your new world order will be shown to be a farce when all of the members of PNAC find themselves sitting in prison.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:51 pmComment by veritas — July 9, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
No, it isn't.
But if someone jacks my name, I will report them immediately!
(not that I am accusing you, I'm just sayin')
July 9th, 2007 at 1:51 pmWhen Hillary gets in and castrates them all into the eunichs whom they really are, there WILL be a 'NEW WORLD ORDER'....heh..
July 9th, 2007 at 1:52 pmArguably, if the definition of New World Order means lying your ass off and deceiving the people who pay your salary, then I suppose it can be defined as such. Their new world order will mean zippo when a Dem gets into office and places their "new world order butts" in jail.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:53 pmHillary will never be voted in. The fringe left hates her as much as the conservatives. She's got no chance.
Besides, she's all bought up and paid for by the Carlyle group and the likes.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:54 pmWhen Hillary gets in and castrates them all into the eunichs whom they really are, there WILL be a ‘NEW WORLD ORDER’….heh..
Comment by veritas
Good thing she gave up that "blind" trust. Holding stock in war profiteers and Pharma and Big Oil companies may have hurt her credibility a little.
How about just two days ago, when she would speak before Union Steel workers, but refused to ask questions like the other 5 candidates did?
Oh yeah, she's something different alright.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:55 pmanswer questions. sorry
July 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pmYou wonder why “impeachment is off the table�
Comment by willyloman
Like Deep Throat told the reporters in the Watergate fiasco, follow the money. My bet is that Pelosi is bought and paid for and probably complicit in the crimes, since she thinks "Bush is not worth Impeaching".
I am betting if someone looks closely enough at her donors we will find the answer.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/
hate to burst your bubble, trolls, but it appears that your 'new world order' is currently "under seige".....
July 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pmHeh. It's kind of endearing to see you and your faith in the democratic party. Hasn't this impeachment-is-off-the-table and general lack of action by the democratic Congress taught you anything. They're just like us, except weaker on foreign policy and military.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pmWillyloman: As much as the Rethugs desire Hillary to become the candidate so they can begin rolling all of her skeletons out of the closet, it's not going to happen. It looks like Barak will be the candidate, hands down.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:57 pmI'm sure the $850,000 campaign contributions had nothing to do with her health care reform involving keeping HMO's and insurance companies in the loop.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:57 pmHillary will never be voted in. The fringe left hates her as much as the conservatives. She’s got no chance.
Besides, she’s all bought up and paid for by the Carlyle group and the likes.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
In this "New World Order" of yours, where democracy doesn't matter, it seems like being "bought and paid for" by the Carlyle Group might be the strongest indicator of who will be installed as Emperor next.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:58 pmWe consider that the occupation is vile to us. The main problem of Iraq is the occupation. I don’t think there would be extraordinary troubles when or if the occupation forces leave. And even assuming such an occurrence, we can eventually solve our problems ourselves. Our main problem is the occupation.
-FALEH ABOOD UMARA, founding member of the Oil Workers Union in Iraq.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:59 pmCheck out Obama's great Health Care Plan. It too keeps the HMO's in place and puts billions of tax dollars into insurance companies to "cover" additional people.
just go to his website and read his plan.
July 9th, 2007 at 1:59 pmAs I said, this is the new world order. You’re just talking about what used to be.
Comment by No-one in particular
That's true, with the Democrats ( Pelosi in particular ) not impeaching Bushco is literally getting away with murder, so yeah sadly it looks like you are correct.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:00 pmAccording to Article 111 of the Iraqi Constitution (says),...the oil and gas of Iraq are owned by the Iraqi people and they have the right to control it. But when you look into the details of the law,...(it) allows the international oil companies, especially the American ones, to exploit the oil fields without our knowledge of what they are actually doing with it. And they take about 50% of the production as their share, which we think it’s an obvious robbery of the Iraqi oil.
In brief, there is hardly an article in the law that actually benefits the Iraqi people. But they all serve American interests in Iraq. And we know well that the law was actually written here in the United States, with the help of James Baker and Ms. Rice and the experts from the IMF.
-FALEH ABOOD UMARA, founding member of the Oil Workers Union in Iraq.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:04 pmNow, can an election change things?
Yes, if we don't accept the "viable" candidate offered by the MSM. NAFTA repeal, OUT OF IRAQ, No more pre-emptive war, Single Payer Health Care! for all americans!, Investigate War Crimes by BushCo!
If we are to really push for change, I think that a candidate that means to do the very things we post about here Should Be Given the credit for it. And therefore the opportunity.
Plus, this candidate has Never taken a dime from lobbiest or special intrest groups. Never.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:05 pmComment by Larry from C
Then look at the provisions for future development of untapped reserves. All the new fields they have been surveying for the past few years. They get split up amoung BP and Mobil and a few others. Indefinately!
July 9th, 2007 at 2:07 pmLooks like it was a mistake to make unions legal in Iraq. We could have shut them down and avoid trouble like this.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:09 pm..."six Nobel Peace Prize laureates have released a statement in opposition to the Iraqi Oil Law. The laureates include Betty Williams, Mairead Maguire, Rigoberta Menchu, Jody Williams, Shirin Ebadi and Wangari Maathai. The statement read, in part, "The Iraqi oil law could benefit foreign oil companies at the expense of the Iraqi people, deny the Iraqi people economic security, create greater instability and move the country further away from peace.â€
-Amy Goodman, Democracy Now
July 9th, 2007 at 2:09 pm#101: So, do you want your gas at a current price or lower, or do you really care about what some Iraqi gets and are prepared to start walking to work while the entire US grinds down?
July 9th, 2007 at 2:12 pm-Amy Goodman, Democracy Now
Comment by Larry from C
The Hydrocarbon Law and the US bases that will have to be there to protect the companies as they illegally pump the resources from another country, are the reasons that our soldiers are being attacked.
Pure and simple. if we vowed no bases and let them pass whatever Hydrocarbon Law they wanted more of our soldiers would survive their tour of duty in Iraq.
The Hydrocarbon Law is killing US Soldiers.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:16 pm#101: So, do you want your gas at a current price or lower, or do you really care about what some Iraqi gets and are prepared to start walking to work while the entire US grinds down?
Comment by No-one in particular
During our sanctions on iraq, we purchased no oil from that country or Iran, i think.
Our supplies come from Kuwait, Saud, Jordan, the US, and Sudan?
Iraq has nothing to do with our price at the pump. Except to make it go up after the invasion.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:18 pmdemocracy = no debate
July 9th, 2007 at 2:19 pm#100, willyloman...unfortunately the corporate media chooses our candidates (there's no such thing as a Mainstream media, only corporate media). They go out of their way to avoid saying "Kucinich".
Yes, the untapped reserves would belong to to BP, Chevron etc for 30 years at an 80% rate. Translation = over 120 TRILLION $$$ Robbery. Makes you proud to be an American, huh. The biggest crime in the history of the world. Almost 20x's the heist when the Nasdaq fell from 5200 to 1300 (7 trillion $$$)
July 9th, 2007 at 2:21 pmSo, do you want your gas at a current price or lower, or do you really care about what some Iraqi gets and are prepared to start walking to work while the entire US grinds down?
Comment by No-one in particular
So let me get this straight...
It's OK to screw over the people of Iraq, money that comes from their product,...
just so we can drive around in SUV pig-machines?
Your mother must be proud.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:23 pm#109: Oil is America's lifeblood. We're utterly dependent on it and we must get to it by any means necessary. I'm just a realist.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:26 pmtru ~ mommy lizards don't care much for their young, except to eat them.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:28 pmMr. Troll President, circa 2007: "Who cares?
When Bush and Cheney want to do something, they will do it. There is no need to discuss!"
A Royalist, circa 1776: "When King George and the East India Company want to do something they will do it. There's no need to discuss!"
Some things never change. Every age has its share of cultish, authoritarian personalities who need to be told what to do and can't think for themselves. Back then, when we won our independence, most of them migrated to Canada or went back to England. Now, where does a royalist like "Mr. President" go? I say he should go straight to hell.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:28 pmBack in the good ol slavery days, humans were America's lifeblood. We were utterly dependent on slave labor and had to have it by any means necessary.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:30 pmNo-one in particular: "Oil is America’s lifeblood. We’re utterly dependent on it and we must get to it by any means necessary. I’m just a realist."
No, what you are is a loser who can't muster the imagination or intelligence to see beyond our current dilema and understand that we have the power to change.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:30 pm#109: Oil is America’s lifeblood. We’re utterly dependent on it and we must get to it by any means necessary. I’m just a realist.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Thank you for your refreshing honesty and for your willingness to "do what it takes" to secure oil for your SUV. I'm sure you'll be visiting http://www.army.mil/recruiting/ with no hesitation whatsoever.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:31 pmHeroin is my lifeblood. I'm utterly dependent on it and I must get to it by any means necessary. I’m just a realist.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:31 pmSo, do you want your gas at a current price or lower, or do you really care about what some Iraqi gets and are prepared to start walking to work while the entire US grinds down?
Comment by No-one in particular
Cheaper? We went to Iraq to DECREASE the flow of oil in order to raise its price. Saddam was a wild card who often pumped too much oil. He threatened OPECs quota so he had to go. And yes, I care what "some Iraqi" gets. Its his oil, not mine.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:31 pm#113: Not really. Life went on without the slaves, but try that with oil. Immediate economical - and subsequent social - collapse.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:31 pmLOL, RUCerious.
Then he claims it's our life blood, so too bad for everyone else.
What a schmuck. Raised with no morals, values, sense of decency or empathy.
Plus, his statement is false. We have the technology to do away with our oil dependency (read: ADDICTION)
July 9th, 2007 at 2:33 pmbut big oil is blocking any advances.
tru ~ I keep asking Jay Inslee where the money for hydrogen powered auto fleet is, and he keeps referring to his Apollo program, never gives me a straight answer.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:35 pm#115: Ah, good old liberal faulty logic. My participation in the war has absolutely no bearing on my right and ability to comment on and promote it. The price of oil affects directly my personal well-being and that of my immediate family. After that comes the state of this nation and only then I'll can start thinking about other countries and their citizens.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:36 pm#113: Not really. Life went on without the slaves, but try that with oil. Immediate economical - and subsequent social - collapse.
Comment by No-one in particular
WE DIDN'T GET OUR OIL FROM IRAQ AND WE STILL DON'T
July 9th, 2007 at 2:39 pmWe have the technology to do away with our oil dependency
Awww... I hope you haven't been reading those zero-point energy articles you find on so many ridiculous conspiracy/UFO sites.
Solar and water can never scale up to the requirements by just our heavy industries not to mention the consumption of our society in general. We can't build more fission, thanks to you liberal tree huggers. Fission is still in the lab and it's not working. Hydrogen based society is dead. So, how do you think to produce all that electricity? You know, your oh-so-clean hybrids need their electricity produced somewhere else.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:39 pm#115: and we must get to it by any means necessary.
You obviously never learned the very first lesson for every child. Remember when your mom took you to the park for the first time and set you down in the sandbox with the other kids. And then you reach over and try to take little Timmy's toy truck. And your mother says "NO, its Timmy's truck, not yours. If you want to play with it you must ASK Timmy first."
Obviously you haven't learned the first lesson of a two year old. You think that we can go around the globe stealing other country's oil. And you don't see anything wrong with this. You need to RUN to a PSYCHIATRIST and beg for immediate help to reclaim your life and save your soul. Your lack of basic moral understanding disqualifies you from making (or even commenting on) geo-political decisions which affect millions. But I'm sure you don't understand any of this. Which makes you more then qualified to be a neo-con.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:39 pmFission is still in the lab
Make that fusion.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pmCheese Puffs are my life's blood!
Damn those Cheese Puffs!
I crush 'em up and smoke 'em!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
July 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pmAh, good old liberal faulty logic. My participation in the war has absolutely no bearing on my right and ability to comment on and promote it. The price of oil affects directly my personal well-being and that of my immediate family. After that comes the state of this nation and only then I’ll can start thinking about other countries and their citizens.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
So your family's well-being is under attack, and you refuse to defend it? What part of freedom and democracy do you hate, exactly?
July 9th, 2007 at 2:40 pm...and that of my immediate family.
Comment by No-one in particular
Ick. You spawned?
Let's hope they rise above their raising.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:41 pm#124: There's nothing wrong with me. It's you who don't understand what we're talking about here. Collapse of our economy and society. Personally I will do anything to guarantee the happyness and well-being of my family - including robbing food, water and fuel. This is what America is doing right now.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:42 pmAh, good old liberal faulty logic. My participation in the war has absolutely no bearing on my right and ability to comment on and promote it. The price of oil affects directly my personal well-being and that of my immediate family. After that comes the state of this nation and only then I’ll can start thinking about other countries and their citizens.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
No faulty logic about it. The poster you responded to merely made the observation that you consider the war to be vital to our interests, but you're quite content to let others do the fighting for you.
Of course you have the right to comment on or promote it -- isn't that what you're doing on this forum? -- but it says something important about you, and about the whole pro-war movement that so few of its members, both prominent and not, are so litttle willing to lay themselves on the line for it.
Simple. It was a good try, though, the attempt to make it about your "right to comment".
July 9th, 2007 at 2:42 pm…and that of my immediate family.
Comment by No-one in particular
I assumed he was talking about his mommy and daddy.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:42 pmIck. You spawned?
Let’s hope they rise above their raising.
Comment by trueblue
i think "divided" like a single-celled organism is more like it.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:43 pmPersonally I will do anything to guarantee the happyness and well-being of my family - including robbing food, water and fuel. This is what America is doing right now.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Anything but join the Army, that is. So I think you mean "personally I will do ALMOST anything to guarantee the happyness and well-being of my family."
Perhaps the Army isn't your thing. I suggest you try http://www.marines.com/ instead. Semper Fi, No one in particular! You go get that oil!
July 9th, 2007 at 2:45 pmYou obviously never learned the very first lesson for every child.
Comment by Larry from C —
Excellent post, Larry from C-
You nailed his personality.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:46 pm(Of course, he doesn't think there's anything wrong with him. It's the hallmark of Anti-Social Personality Disorder. DSM IV)
#132: Again, why should I? How would getting myself killed in Iraq benefit me or my family?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:04 pm#133 trueblue...Mental illness is epidemic in our society. Even if no-one in particular is just a dim-witted follower it should be taken seriously. There are millions like him. We can't underestimate the destructive influence they can have.
When the mentally ill acquire power (i.e. a President and VP who are sociopaths) it becomes a situation beyond critical. I'd like all the Presidential candidates to be evaluated by mental health professionals before being allowed to run.
In professional football teams often put their potential recruits through tests (some bizarre) that'll give them understanding as to how they'll respond when given a multi-million dollar contract. They know that many of these kids grew up dirt poor and they want to understand if they'll self-destruct by becoming a millionaire overnight. The teams can't afford to throw away millions of dollars on recruits that fizzle out.
Is it too much to ask that we put our Presidental candidates through psychological evaluation? After all we're talking about much more then millions of dollars. We're talking about being Commander in Chief and the Nuclear Briefcase. If we luck out and survive the current sociopathic president will we wise up and never allow a mentally ill person to become president again?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:07 pmThat is an excellent idea, Larry from C.
I wonder how that idea can be conveyed to politicians.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:10 pmAgain, why should I? How would getting myself killed in Iraq benefit me or my family?
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
I think it's a sacrifice you and your family should be more than willing to make to ensure an uninterrupted supply of that precious oil. If you actually cared about your family as much as you claim to, you'd be signing up right now to go and "do whatever it takes."
But obviously you don't care about your family. You're content to let them suffer the unhappyness of high gas prices, without doing a single thing to help. Oh, sure, you talk a good game. "I'll do ANYTHING," you say. But that's obviously a lie, because you refuse to do a simple thing like fight for your country -- and your family.
And I find that shameful. You've not only let your family down, but you've let your country down. How do you sleep at night, knowing that you care so little about your family's well-being?
July 9th, 2007 at 3:19 pm#136 trueblue...Here's a STUNNING account of our President getting brainwashed by a leading Neo-Con. If you ever wanted to be a fly-on-the-wall for a Bush briefing you'll love this piece from Glenn Greenwald.
I think its clear that a mentally healthy person wouldn't be such an easy dupe for this crap. But our President is no match for such master manipulators. I wish every person in America would read this:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/02/a-tragic-legacy-the-influence-of-neocons-on-the-bush-presidency/#more-18941
July 9th, 2007 at 3:36 pmHow would getting myself killed in Iraq benefit me or my family?
Comment by No-one in particular — July 9, 2007 @ 3:04 pm
How does our soldiers getting killed in Iraq benefit their families?
That's a tough question. Here's one I bet you'll find easier to answer: how do our soldiers getting killed in Iraq benefit YOUR family?
This is the neocon ethos in a nutshell, everybody -- what benefits me is what's best. Screw the common good.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:39 pmAll I can say re: your link is,
Wow.
(you can't see me shaking my head, hand covering eyes, but believe me I am.)
Thank you for that link.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:41 pmJust read the linked article, and, YEAH. The messianic manager is hard at work, gettin ready to strike Iran. Cause His God is Good and they are Evil, and we have always been at war with Oceania.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:35 pmMr Pee is No-one in particular. But you knew that, didn't you?
July 9th, 2007 at 5:08 pmLarry from C -
July 9th, 2007 at 5:11 pmJust read the linked article too. This is Way beyond scary. I just hope and pray that we have elections next year. After reading that article I'm afraid that Mr. Bush could, very easily, declare himself President for Life. War on 3 fronts is the realm of madmen and the President is also Mayor for Life of Crazy Town. Poor Tony Snow, he's the sanest member of the crew and that ain't sayin' much!
2100+ days with no domestic trerrorist attack on US soil!
Thanks President Bush!!!
For TPers it's just another great day at the mall. Have fun shopping!
July 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pmLook at him, this ghoul will go to the grave carrying water for BushCo.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:38 pmnot much time left is there tony.....
July 9th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWhy is the military "depleted"? Bush has had 5 years to do something about it. Congress has never tied any strings to Bush's budget requests. How has the military come to be depleted then? Mismanagement?
Surely they are not trotting out the "it's all Clinton's fault" argument, are they?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:02 pmBush's policy on Iraq from the beginning has had more to do with politics than with policy. He has never listened to the military. All the decisions regarding this war have been made in his inner circle at the White House which has included people who have never served in combat like Rove, Cheney and Bush. When generals have disagreed with Bush they have either been demoted /fired (Shinseki) or replaced (Casey). It is wrong to blame the military for Bush's mistake. The surge didn't work because the policy is wrong not because it is our troops fault. Bush wants to blame everyone except himself for his failure to bring stability to Iraq.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:41 pmBush-Cheney aren't concerned about congressional support because they don't need it. They aren't concerned with GOP political support because they can do without it. They aren't concerned about repercussions or punishment in the next elections because such elections will not occur. Some terrible incident will happen in autumn 2008; state of emergency and martial law will be declared, elections will be cancelled, the dictatorship will go into full swing. Political opponents will suffer unfortunate accidents. Dissidents will be disappeared. Order will be restored. And military action will continue in Iraq and Iran.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:27 pm