FBI details data-mining efforts.
FBI details data-mining efforts.
The AP reports, “The FBI is gathering and sorting information about Americans to help search for potential terrorists, insurance cheats and crooked pharmacists, according to a government report obtained Tuesday.”
Records about identity thefts, real estate transactions, motor vehicle accidents and complaints about Internet drug companies are being searched for common threads to aid law enforcement officials, the Justice Department said in a report to Congress on the agency’s data-mining practices. [...]
The report, sent to Congress this week, marked the department’s first public detailing of six of its data-mining tools, which look for patterns to catch criminals. The disclosure was required by lawmakers when they renewed the USA Patriot Act in 2005. All but one of the databases — the one to track terrorists — have been up and running for several years.
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borders open, 5% of shipping containers searched, 15M illegals, corrupt govt., and we get the fine tooth comb
July 10th, 2007 at 10:30 pmThat does it! I’m getting away from this site now! I’m skeerrrd of Gitmo.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:31 pmborders open, 5% of shipping containers searched, 15M illegals, corrupt govt., and we get the fine tooth comb
Comment by jaysus
Seeing as all of the above is true, what the F*ck ARE they looking for, since they can’t seem to find any of the above.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:34 pmSeeing as all of the above is true, what the F*ck ARE they looking for, since they can’t seem to find any of the above.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 10, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
#
WMDs.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:41 pmWhen you fail at getting the real criminals or the real terrorists, you resort to finding fault with normal law-abiding citizens. Makes you look worthwhile.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:43 pmWMDs.
Comment by Chris L
Well, then I am worried, ’cause those guys can’t do anything right.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:44 pmDid you know?……Mohammad Atta:
Flipped houses
July 10th, 2007 at 10:46 pmScammed insurance companies
Ordered Viagra online
Stole the identity of a 50 year old African- American women name Tyisha
Was a reckless driver
This will be as successful as the “no fly list” that has kept congressmen and 5-year-olds off of planes.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:46 pmWhen you fail at getting the real criminals or the real terrorists, you resort to finding fault with normal law-abiding citizens. Makes you look worthwhile.
Comment by G Whiz — July 10, 2007 @ 10:43 pm
Don’t forget, they also have quotas to meet. Or, as a cop friend once told me, “Officially, we don’t have quotas. But your superiors “let you know” when you aren’t making enough arrests.”
In other words, quotas. Quotas for law enforcement are evil and wrong. They do nothing other than make cops arrest people on weak grounds, just to prevent getting written up or transferred.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:48 pmOnce again, George Orwell earns the title of Most Prescient Human of the 20th Century.
Yo, Big Bro – wuzup?
July 10th, 2007 at 10:52 pmAll but one of the databases — the one to track terrorists — have been up and running for several years.
What the F*CK!!?
All of the databases to spy on us have been running for several years, EXCEPT THE ONE TO SPY ON THE TERRORISTS!!?
What the hell is that about?
July 10th, 2007 at 10:56 pmThere are so many laws on the books that 99.9% of all US citizens are lawbreakers, whether they know it or not. If the government decides it doesn’t like you, they can easily find a reason to put you away.
Escape while you still can.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:57 pmLOL whatever > the FBI needs to data-mine the phone calls to the DC Madam, so that we can find out who is horny in our capital.
July 10th, 2007 at 10:58 pmEscape while you still can.
Comment by Mr. President
So what will they bust you for?
July 10th, 2007 at 10:58 pmWelcome to Dictatorship.
Anyone remember FISA? You know, the law that the Toy Emperor insists on breaking. Well here it is. Staring right back at you. Illegal spying on American citizens on US soil. Law? Broken!
And Nancy has taken Impeachment off the table? F*CK! This sucks.
Will NO ONE in this silly government protect We The People and the Constitution of these formerly great United States???
July 10th, 2007 at 10:59 pmWhat the hell is that about?
Comment by Zooey
Remember back, maybe 3 yrs ago, when that wretched fraud “Admiral” Poindexter wanted to do his “Total Information Awareness” nonsense? There was such a bad reaction that Bru$chCoâ„¢ and Pointy said, “Aw shucks, we won’t do this after all…”
(They lied…)
July 10th, 2007 at 11:01 pmMr. President > we all all in the “Hotel California” song now. “You can check out anytime, but never leave.”
July 10th, 2007 at 11:01 pm“We are all in the “Hotel California†song now… ”
Comment by Jay Randal
Er, is that “Hotel California” or “Roach Motel”??? It’s gittin’ hard to tell the difference…
July 10th, 2007 at 11:04 pmGood.
Hopefully more enemies of America will be sent to GITMO!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:05 pmnull
July 10th, 2007 at 11:06 pmRemember back, maybe 3 yrs ago, when that wretched fraud “Admiral†Poindexter wanted to do his “Total Information Awareness†nonsense? There was such a bad reaction that Bru$chCoâ„¢ and Pointy said, “Aw shucks, we won’t do this after all…â€
(They lied…)
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
I figured that — even at the time. :D
But why are they watching US and not the suspected terrorists? I know that’s a stupid question….
July 10th, 2007 at 11:06 pmAnyone remember FISA? You know, the law that the Toy Emperor insists on breaking. Well here it is. Staring right back at you. Illegal spying on American citizens on US soil. Law? Broken!
And Nancy has taken Impeachment off the table? F*CK! This sucks.
Will NO ONE in this silly government protect We The People and the Constitution of these formerly great United States???
Comment by JesusChrist_GodOfWar — July 10, 2007 @ 10:59 pm
Hear, hear! This is so very true. Here, we have the FBI flat-out admitting to the American people that it has broken the law and spied on American citizens wholesale, without getting a proper FISA warrant. Every single phone call they listen in on, every single piece of data they mine for these uses, has to go through the FISA courts, BY LAW! Every single instance they skirt the FISA laws, they are breaking the law.
In fact, they are guilty of repeated violations of the Fourth Amendment. These are extraordinarily severe breaches of the public trust, and severe instances of lawbreaking. The punishments should be equally extraordinary in there severity.
Congress? Bueller? Bueller?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:07 pmI know that’s a stupid question….
Comment by Zooey
I would have to say, in the recesses of their twisted, paranoid minds, we ARE the enemy. Ever deal w/ a paranoid? It’s impossible.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:08 pmWhen governments become fascistic, like the Bush Regime, then the people are considered the enemies of the state, so they are watched and considered to be future terrorists.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:09 pmHopefully more enemies of America will be sent to GITMO!
Comment by PiP
I already did two years in Gitmo. I’m not going back.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:11 pmWhen governments become fascistic, like the Bush Regime, then the people are considered the enemies of the state
Comment by Jay Randal
Right… the State takes on a life of its own, and pertetuating that existence becomes the State’s biggest concern.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:12 pmI figured that — even at the time. :D
But why are they watching US and not the suspected terrorists? I know that’s a stupid question….
Comment by Zooey — July 10, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
Duh? :)
Yes, I had that one pretty much nailed as well. As for your question? There is only one answer as to why the bulk of data mining would be directed at the citizenry, and not our enemies. Only one. I think you know the answer, eh?
Here’s a hint: Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia both spied on their citizens for the same exact reason.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:12 pmZooey,
I copied and pasted this from another thread:
zooey. did you see veritas’ note to you and the other guy? it was very nice.
Comment by willyloman — July 10, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
July 10th, 2007 at 11:13 pmOff subject for one post: Sen. Vitter claimed today that his contact with a hooker is between him and God, so we the people are to leave him alone. I had NO idea that God spent all his time helping sleazy GOPers.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pmZooey.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:14 pmHas anyone posed the “If you have nothing to hide, it’s a small sacrifice for our safety” crap yet?
Sen. Vitter claimed today that his contact with a hooker is between him and God
Between him and a Goddess.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:15 pmComment by Egreggious — July 10, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
I didn’t see it. Do know where it is?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:16 pmZooey.
Has anyone posed the “If you have nothing to hide, it’s a small sacrifice for our safety†crap yet?
Comment by dbadass — July 10, 2007 @ 11:14 pm
If so, just throw back, “Then why is the Bush administration so opposed to Congress’ Constitutionally-required oversight? If they have nothing to hide…”
July 10th, 2007 at 11:16 pmWhat’s the problem exactly?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:16 pmZooey.
Has anyone posed the “If you have nothing to hide, it’s a small sacrifice for our safety†crap yet?
Comment by dbadass
You’re the first. :)
July 10th, 2007 at 11:17 pmm12,
No problem, except for some whiny Lefties.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pmZooey, it’s near the end of the Webb thread from earlier today.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pm“Me I have lots to hide” is my usual. Tends to stump them long enough for me to get the hell away
July 10th, 2007 at 11:18 pmI guess the FBI is probably data-mining this TP thread as we post, so we are all on a list for the Haliburton concentration camps in Idaho and Utah. Zooey > you are not too far away from one of those camps.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:19 pmComment by Zooey — July 10, 2007 @ 11:16 pm
You’ll have to ask willy. I’m sure it was the thread where veritas got in trouble for calling a non-troll a troll, but I don’t remember which one that was.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:19 pmThanks, Arthur.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:19 pmHere’s a hint: Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia both spied on their citizens for the same exact reason.
Comment by Moderation
Thanks Moderation & TRoS.
I have felt like they were spying on Americans in general, but to have it confirmed in such a blase` fashion is totally creepy.
Impeachment needs to be on the table NOW.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:19 pm#36 – Arthur C
Thanks.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:20 pmBetween him and a Goddess.
Comment by Egreggious
I don’t know if the woman’s a Goddess, but after Vitter, she certainly qualifies for sainthood.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:20 pmAccording to an article in Salon in 2004, the prostitute whom David Vitter saw in New Orleans was Wendy Cortez.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:21 pmm12 > you will be allowed to become a camp guard, so no problem for you guy.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:21 pmIn case anybody didn’t know, Vitter has now been linked to a brothel in New Orleans.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:22 pmEvening TP friends! Just for your information and my conscience I’ve left an apology primarily to SomeGuy for skipping his post due to his opening remarks which appeared to be mocking Viet Vets – that coupled with his ‘blah, blah, blah’ and I figured he was just another annoying troll since I’d never seen his posts before. Honestly, before leaving for an evening out, I didn’t read his entire post – suspecting that he was a new troll.
Other than sparring around trolls and very seldomly actually engaging them in dialogue, my intention is certainly to attempt to maintain a level of openness for the difference of opinions EVEN among kindred spirits…certainly to intentionally offend another kindred on these threads is not my intention.
When I scanned the threads I’d missed in my absence, I saw the flurry of criticism directed toward me. I’ve responded to those criticisms on the appropriate Webb thread below.
Most of my friends no longer post at TP due to the incessant, nagging and ridiculous rantings of the trolls. Then they began their name hijacking the other night which pushed many intelligent friends over the edge who will not return to TP to ever post here again. It’s a very definite loss to our cause. And, certainly, we need all the support we can muster to further our cause – as it’s often lost within the confines of this perpetually corrupt government of ours.
I am not thin skinned, thankfully and can understand the critical comments made by some whom I’d considered friends here on the threads. I guess the vitriol of the trolls is seeping into even our communications with each other now.
I enjoy a very full life and attempt to do my part to bring whatever awareness to our cause as I possibly can – my intentions are genuine. There is no doubt that I do not always agree with the opinions of others fighting for our cause but I’ve never overtly attempted to undermine their efforts and when not in agreement, simply did not respond.
The trolls here at TP HAVE taken over these threads to the point of driving intelligent democrats away. Yesterday I’d even decided that I didn’t need nor did I enjoy the nonsensical diatribes of these trolls and didn’t need this in my life any longer.
Again, apologies to those whom I’ve unintentionally offended. It was not done with malicious intent. I responded to SomeGuy as I typically respond to an active troll. Somehow I got SomeGuy and NoOne confused I guess…
anyway, peace to all…..sweet dreams, too!
Hang in there – the cause is a worthy one. I just don’t feel very welcome here any longer.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:22 pmI think I’ll take a break for a while. Don’t want to overload the FBI’s database.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:23 pmm12 > you will be allowed to become a camp guard, so no problem for you guy.
I don’t see what the problem for you is, either. I can understand why you wouldn’t want reports sent to the fools in Congress, but the program itself is necessary intelligence gathering!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:24 pmto have it confirmed in such a blase` fashion is totally creepy.
Impeachment needs to be on the table NOW.
Comment by Zooey
Tell me about it. Remember about 2 weeks ago, I told you guys about the baseball e-mails that kept “disappearing” and then turning up back in my mail as “undeliverable”? Very creepy…
July 10th, 2007 at 11:24 pmI just don’t feel very welcome here any longer.
Nobody’s asking me, but I wish you’d stay.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:25 pmPlease do not feed the trolls.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:26 pmComment by veritas — July 10, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
That is why you Lefties will fail.
When the going gets tough, you get going.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:26 pmm12,
These libs are always paranoid for the wrong reasons, you know that!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:28 pmm12 > when a government spies on its own citizens, then we all are considered enemies of the state. Remember that Hoover of the FBI liked to keep files on sex activities of Americans, while he himself cross-dressed and had a male lover. The FBI needs to look for felons and not spy in keyholes.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:29 pmI am so tired of hearing left vs. right. What happened to what’s right for our country? How far politics has gone awry when the country no longer matters? When right and wrong no longer matter? When did the mindset go to WIN or lose…at any expense.
Watching some of the postings here saddens me that it’s all right or left and the country loses. We lose.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:29 pmI have felt like they were spying on Americans in general, but to have it confirmed in such a blase` fashion is totally creepy.
Impeachment needs to be on the table NOW.
Comment by Zooey — July 10, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
Don’t you wonder why it is that both the Congress and the press let Bush get away with, quite literally, any other President in our country has been allowed to? The amount of leeway by the press alone is simply staggering.
The wiretapping was, per the administration’s own admission, started before the PATRIOT Act, and before 9/11. The PATRIOT Act was supposedly written in six weeks following 9/11 (presented to Congress on Oct 23, 2001). It is one of the largest, most complex pieces of legislation ever introduced to Congress. Such a piece of legislation could never hope to be written in six weeks. It’s simply not possible. And to expect anyone in Congress to read such a massive bill so swiftly, and hammer out all the details? No, they had the PATRIOT Act ready, or nearly ready, well before 9/11, whether they knew anything about that heinous act or not. They also had plans to invade Iraq long before 9/11, from the moment they entered office.
So, again, can you think of any reasons why Congress and the Fourth Estate would be so soft in their handling of a President who has been illegally spying on nobody-knows-who since their presidency began? Any information at all one can think of that might be used to sway the minds of the press and Congress?
Umm, yeah.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:30 pm#19 null
Comment by PiP — July 10, 2007 @ 11:06 pm
Exactly!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:30 pm#51 When the going gets tough, you get going. Comment by PiP
No, what it is, trolls, is that you are all part of the 26%ers and have become irrelevant. Kinda like a used condom, laying in the gutter.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:31 pmRightwingers foam at the mouth about the federal government keeping records on gun nuts, but don’t care if the feds go rummaging through their medical receipts or bank records?
I think it’s because of the way rightwingers inevitably crave authoritarian “daddy” figures to protect them, because they are so fearful they are incapable of taking care of themselves.
Pathetic.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:33 pmLessee if I can help.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:34 pmThe WMDs are at PIPs house.
m12 > when a government spies on its own citizens, then we all are considered enemies of the state. Remember that Hoover of the FBI liked to keep files on sex activities of Americans, while he himself cross-dressed and had a male lover. The FBI needs to look for felons and not spy in keyholes.
They aren’t spying…they are data mining. Way to go off topic!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:35 pmveritas,
July 10th, 2007 at 11:37 pmI, for one, will miss your thoughtful posts.
I am also disgusted with what TP has allowed to happen to this site.
Even when not fed, the trolls contaminate what used to be a place where rational discussion could occur in a thoughtful manner.
I am now over at KOS as chanbo.
See you around.
LOL m12 > they are spying on us. They listen to every phone-call, so if you do not mind them hearing you talk about sex with your wife or girlfriend, or hooker, then say the program is OK.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:37 pmThey aren’t spying…they are data mining. Way to go off topic!
Comment by m12 — July 10, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
Wouldn’t it be cool if they “found” the Meaning?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:40 pmComment by upside00 — July 10, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
You seem intelligent enough for me to allow you respond to my posts, I do ask, however, that in the future you read not only my comment but the comment that I am referring to in any particular post. This will help you respond with a comment that is pertinent.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:42 pmA used condom. Laying in the gutter.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:44 pmLooks like one or more trolls don’t get what data mining is.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:45 pmYou pour shitloads of what may look like random data into an algorithm and it spits out patterns. From the patterns you can pick out pretty much anything about anybody you want.
Who’s getting which prescription refills ahead of their suggested refill dates, who’s renewing their driver’s license earlier than normal, who’s withdrawing more money than usual from their savings…
Most people, like those without authority cravings would consider that type of information about their personal spending and behavioral patterns private, and would not want any government agency looking at it for some vague purpose.
Trolls don’t need no stinkin’ privacy.
They got no lives.
…
July 10th, 2007 at 11:46 pm“They aren’t spying…they are data mining.”
Dear heart, we already know you’re an idiot; you don’t need to keep proving it. Just how, exactly, do you think they’re getting the data they are mining?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:47 pmRUCerious, the other part of that is, they have to get the data they are mining from somewhere. Well, we just so happen to know they are using records of phone calls made by private citizens, without FISA warrants (illegal, and ruled illegal by the one judge that has thus far ruled on it). That alone indicates that they are willing to break the Fourth Amendment to get the information they desire. Where else are they getting their data from?
Are we a country guided by the Rule of Law, or aren’t we? You cannot breach privacy laws in your endeavor without a warrant, and still be in bounds of the Rule of Law. Period.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:52 pmZooey > you are not too far away from one of those camps.
Comment by Jay Randal
Where is there a camp? I’ll go look at it.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:52 pmLOL m12 > they are spying on us. They listen to every phone-call, so if you do not mind them hearing you talk about sex with your wife or girlfriend, or hooker, then say the program is OK.
They are sifting through millions of transactions in real estate and motor vehicle accidents. There is nothing at all in the article hinting at listening in on phone calls.
You think the FBI can singlehandedly listen in on the billions of phone calls made daily? Good luck!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:53 pmModeration,
July 10th, 2007 at 11:54 pmYou bet they are gathering every chunk of data from the three credit bureaus, banks, phone and cable companies. Don’t assume for a moment there is any electronic transaction they aren’t aware of, and have stashed in the data marts.
Hang in there – the cause is a worthy one. I just don’t feel very welcome here any longer.
Comment by veritas — July 10, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
I appreciate your comments very much, veritas, I hope you will return.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:54 pm“marked the department’s first public detailing of six of its data-mining tools”
Wait till you see what the other five are up to~!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:56 pmMost people, like those without authority cravings would consider that type of information about their personal spending and behavioral patterns private, and would not want any government agency looking at it for some vague purpose.
Why? The government is paying for many of those prescriptions and insuring those savings accounts; it certainly is going to look at what it is financing!
July 10th, 2007 at 11:56 pmAre we a country guided by the Rule of Law, or aren’t we? You cannot breach privacy laws in your endeavor without a warrant, and still be in bounds of the Rule of Law. Period.
Yes, in this case the rule of law is guided by the Patriot Act, passed by huge bipartisan majorities.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:58 pmZooey > I do not know the location of the Haliburton camp in Idaho, but an article mentioned it and one in Utah too. Haliburton has been given a contract to refurbish old Army bases into camps, so do you know of a closed base in your area?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:58 pmCan we all keep our personal income records private, RUcerious? Tell that to the IRS.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:00 amSuch a piece of legislation could never hope to be written in six weeks. It’s simply not possible.
Prove it!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:01 amHang in there – the cause is a worthy one. I just don’t feel very welcome here any longer.
Comment by veritas — July 10, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
veritas, you’re not leaving us for good are you?
Been so busy today, I didn’t get here until late and I see your post.
We are all frustrated with the rampant trolling on TP and the management’s inability to end it — when it gets real bad, I just check out.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:02 amm12 > never a good idea to have government agencies data-mining or spying on its citizens. Remember that even some Nazi followers of Hitler were arrested and taken to Dachau concentration camp.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:03 amProve they can do it m12! Proof is a two-way street.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:04 amm12 > never a good idea to have government agencies data-mining or spying on its citizens. Remember that even some Nazi followers of Hitler were arrested and taken to Dachau concentration camp.
How is it not a good idea? We look at broad patterns of behavior to see what pinpoints a terrorist so we can deal with them!
It’s not like they march in a uniform under a flag. How do you propose finding terrorists operating in the US?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:05 amComment by Jay Randal — July 11, 2007 @ 12:04 am
I’m not the one making a sweeping assertion about the Congressional record being incorrect.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:07 amLOL m12 > first off close the Mexican border, so we know who is in the US. Hard to uncover terrorists with the Mex border wide open. Canadian border is not too secure either, nor the seaports.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:08 am“it certainly is going to look at what it is financing!”
What a crock. If you can’t do better than that, why try?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:10 amProve it!
Comment by m12
Can’t prove a negative, dingleberry.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:11 amLOL m12 > first off close the Mexican border, so we know who is in the US. Hard to uncover terrorists with the Mex border wide open. Canadian border is not too secure either, nor the seaports.
That doesn’t do much about the terrorists already here. Besides, several of the 911 hijackers entered the US with legal visas in 2000!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:11 amSo on what grounds, Zooey, is Moderation asserting this ‘impossibility’?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 amZooey > I do not know the location of the Haliburton camp in Idaho, but an article mentioned it and one in Utah too. Haliburton has been given a contract to refurbish old Army bases into camps, so do you know of a closed base in your area?
Comment by Jay Randal
No, that would be somewhere in southern Idaho, and that’s over six hours away from me.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 am#83 – m12
You are exactly right. The government needs to study both “normal” legal patterns of citizens and those of suspected terrorists. Hopefully the they will be able to determine various trends in the behavior of terrorists, so that red flags can be raised immediately in the future.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 amData-mining is simply a more technologically sophisticated way of spying.
Whereas in the old times governments needed to hire clerks to sift through citizens’ records, nowadays almost everything leaves a digital “fingerprint” that can be stored in a database, retrieved, and analyzed. Who called whom, when, from where, and how long. Purchasing patterns. Travel & eating habits. Web surfing habits. Virtually everything we do ends up in a database somewhere.
All it takes is enough hardware, powerful enough to analyze all this data to know exactly who is doing what, when and where. Which is, in essence, what spying is. What used to take a huge bureaucracy, now can be done with a few people and a lot of computing power.
Stalin would be proud.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 amSo on what grounds, Zooey, is Moderation asserting this ‘impossibility’?
Comment by m12
Ask Moderation, ding dong.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:14 amLOL m12 > who was/is responsible for allowing them to come into the US with legal visas? I suppose you will say Clinton and Bush is not responsible. Bush has been president for last 6 and a half years, so when does he take responsibility for his actions? After he is gone?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:15 amYou are exactly right. The government needs to study both “normal†legal patterns of citizens and those of suspected terrorists. Hopefully the they will be able to determine various trends in the behavior of terrorists, so that red flags can be raised immediately in the future.
Maybe these liberals are on to something. With single payer health care, the government will have access to every single medical transaction in the nation to utilize in anti-terrorist efforts.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 amLOL m12 > who was/is responsible for allowing them to come into the US with legal visas? I suppose you will say Clinton and Bush is not responsible.
Your words, not mine.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 amIt doesn’t matter who let them in, if they are here we need to find them, and kill them. Hell, even American born Muslims can turn into Jihadis if they feel that they must protect the Ummah.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:18 amBush wants us to believe that terrorists are too stupid to come across the wide-open Mexican border, but if they are that dumb then we have nothing to worry about do we.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:18 amBush wants us to believe that terrorists are too stupid to come across the wide-open Mexican border, but if they are that dumb then we have nothing to worry about do we.
So do 3/4 of the Democrats in Congress, I guess.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:20 amm12 > your guy McCain wants the border left wide-open too.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:22 amI have to go take a shower and go to bed. Bye all and take care.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:23 amThey have already proven they are not dumb, Jay Randal, as evidenced by the first foreign assault on US soil since 1812!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:24 amMaybe these liberals are on to something. With single payer health care, the government will have access to every single medical transaction in the nation to utilize in anti-terrorist efforts.
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 12:16 am
But why would a suicide bomber go to the doctor?
This muslim killers have a disease, and I don’t think they make a medicine for it!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:26 amScratch that, there is a cure.
A bullet between the eyes.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:28 amAsk Moderation, ding dong.
Comment by Zooey — July 11, 2007 @ 12:14 am
Huh? What? Oh, I don’t respond to trolls, anymore, Zooey. If I’m not mistaken, a huge chunk of the wording of the PATRIOT Act was rejected, verbatim, during the Reagan administration. Certain parties in Congress have tried to push it through since it was originally rejected. Ohhhh, yeah. It was rejected on the grounds of being unconstitutional. Because, you know, that proposed legislation broke the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments. In fact, the laws that WERE passed during the Reagan years have had many of their parts repealed, also for being unconstitutional, and because of the lack of accountability, transparency and oversight the laws allowed.
So yeah, the USA PATRIOT Act was pretty much good to go, worked on for many, many man-hours by many of the same men in Congress, over a decade earlier. Reintroduced and summarily rejected every time, for being unconstitutional. Since most in Congress admitted they did not read the USA PATRIOT Act themselves…
July 11th, 2007 at 12:30 amIt doesn’t matter who let them in, if they are here we need to find them, and kill them. Hell, even American born Muslims can turn into Jihadis if they feel that they must protect the Ummah.
Comment by PiP
You are advocating a genocide against Muslims, even American born Muslims.
I’ll ask you again — Are you willing to kill these people with your own hands?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:31 amComment by Moderation — July 11, 2007 @ 12:30 am
Thanks, Moderation. :)
July 11th, 2007 at 12:32 am…that proposed legislation broke the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments.
And that’s why it’s called the Patriot Act, see?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:32 amAre you willing to kill these people with your own hands?
Comment by Zooey — July 11, 2007 @ 12:31 am
He’s gonna have some tired hands by the time he’s done.
But then he’s probably used to that.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:34 amWait until Real Id is in full swing. If you get a drivers license or register for any government services, all your personal information (including dob and social security numbers) will be in the government’s giant database. Now, do you trust your personal information in the hands of the government who has had, how many cases of their employees exposing thousands of US citizens to the theft of their personal information. Real ID is the ID Thieves wet dream.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:35 amReal ID is the ID Thieves wet dream.
Comment by Katie
Then Corporate America can sell us some sort of fancy security package, so we can protect us from them. Sort of….
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 amComment by Katie — July 11, 2007 @ 12:35 am
Oh this is rich! How is the government supposed to dispense trillions of dollars in welfare services without identification?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:39 amComment by Katie
On top of that add the “medical data base” which will make sure that all your history is available to the personel treating you as well as the Insurance Companies screening you for pre-existing conditions.
If you ever went to the doctor about a cough, they can find it and sue you if they have to cover cancer or broncitus or anything like that because you failed to disclose it.
Anywhere you go you will have the same info following you. No clean start; no do over. And in some leading democratic candidates, having health insurance is manditory. They could write you a ticket for not having it like auto insurance.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:40 am“anyway, peace to all…..sweet dreams, too!
Hang in there – the cause is a worthy one. I just don’t feel very welcome here any longer.
Comment by veritas”
Hang in there veritas. You goofed and you apologized. I did the same thing once and I felt like a real idiot.
I, too, am saddened with what this site has become. There are days when I can barely read to comment 30 before just saying “to hell with it”.
I still firmly believe the only way we will ever be able to get rid of the trolls is to ignore them. Allow them to have conversations amongst themselves, but DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, respond to them.
I see this as the only hope of saving this site since TP has shown no inclination to take our suggestions to start a registration system and to be vigilant about getting rid of the posters like Mr. Prez whose sole purpose here is to disrupt the site.
Anyway, stick around. And if we all cooperate and stop feeding the trolls, I do believe they will get bored and leave.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:41 amTonight I take a pledge. I will not, under any circumstances, respond to any of the comments made by our resident troll.
Please, take the pledge with me.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:43 am#105
1) If they are terrorists they are no longer American citizens, as enemies of the USA they face repercussions.
2) Again? There are trained professionals who will do that, but if no one else will, sure.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:44 amOops…make it “resident trolls”, even though I suspect many of our trolls are one person.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:44 am#111 m12
LOL!
Don’t expect an answer that makes sense from this bunch!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:48 amI promise to try harder to not respond to the disrupters Katie!
They seem to usually be incredibly juvenile and/or mean-spirited and add nothing to the conversation.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:49 am…that proposed legislation broke the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendments.
And that’s why it’s called the Patriot Act, see?
Comment by Egreggious — July 11, 2007 @ 12:32 am
Yup. Because they only ACT like PATRIOTS.
Too bad they are such terrible actors, eh?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:51 am1) If they are terrorists they are no longer American citizens, as enemies of the USA they face repercussions.
Innocent until proven guilty. They must be tried as Americans.
2) Again? There are trained professionals who will do that, but if no one else will, sure.
Comment by PiP
Asuuming the trained professionals are having their hair done that day — exactly how would you kill someone?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:54 am#120
Not if they are terrorists.
See the thread above.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:07 amNot if they are terrorists.
See the thread above.
Comment by PiP — July 11, 2007 @ 1:07 am
Not if President Hillary says they’re terrorists.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:10 amNot if President Hillary says they’re terrorists.
Comment by Egreggious
Not if President Pelosi says it first.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:12 amNot if President Pelosi says it first.
Comment by willyloman — July 11, 2007 @ 1:12 am
There’s the true fighting spirit!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:17 amThe most important function of the Federal Government is national defense. National defense isn’t limited merely to military power. It also includes information gathering. Local police departments gather information on a routine basis. What’s the beef if the FBI does it? They can save a lot of time and manpower through data mining that used to take feet on the street.
What irks me more than data mining is the fact that in today’s self-destructive PC climate, the FBI has to give detailed reports on data mining to the congress, and it all becomes public knowledge, including to our enemies! How the hell can we engage in an effective terror war when we have to make public all of our tactics?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:25 amHow the hell can we engage in an effective terror war when we have to make public all of our tactics?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 11, 2007 @ 1:25 am
Democracy sucks.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:30 amI think I’ll take the pledge too. And much like Cindy Sheehan, I intend on giving this blog a timeline. If they don’t have some sort of registration system and troll control system at a minimum in place by August 1st, 2004, I’m heading off too.
Zooey, if you’re still up, would you mind posting the e-mail address for the person you got some action out of? And is there any possibility I could get some people (veritas, if you’re still around, and everyone else here) to back me up on the calls for change? Maybe enough words around the block up to the head honchos at TP may convince them that it’s worth putting a registration system in.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:59 amErr, much with Cindy Sheehan to Congress, I ment. Not Sheehan to this blog. ;) Sleep beckons.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:00 amWell, the Stasi died in East Germany in the 80s only to come back to life in the US not even two decades later.
Different language, different times, different continent, same authoritarian personality cult followers.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:23 amJust like the McCarthy era, there’s one around every corner, one watching you, one ready to kill you, one ready to eat your young…
Be very afraid!!!!!!
July 11th, 2007 at 7:23 am“I think I’ll take the pledge too. And much like Cindy Sheehan, I intend on giving this blog a timeline. If they don’t have some sort of registration system and troll control system at a minimum in place by August 1st, 2004, I’m heading off too.
Comment by Jeremy — July 11, 2007 @ 1:59 am”
August 1st, 2004? Perhaps you meant 2007?
Either way, are you saying you are uncomfortable with the idea of having to read an opposing viewpoint? You are uncomfortable with open debate?
As much as participating in a blog of only like-minded thinkers strokes one’s ego and gives one the impression of ideological superiority, the truth is, if you only preach to the choir, you only recieve a false sense of security in return.
July 11th, 2007 at 8:38 amI TAKE THE PLEDGE TOO.
I WILL FOLLOW YOU SURRENDER MONKEYS TO THE EDGE OF THE EARTH AND FORCE FEED YOU THE TRUTH!
I SWEAR!!!
PiP
July 11th, 2007 at 8:47 amThey are tracking auto insurance cheats?!
Isn’t that what part of our premiums go for; for the insurance companies’ in house or sub-contracted investigators?
Why not check for untruthful used car salesman and Nigerian loan proposals on the internets?
July 11th, 2007 at 8:52 amAs much as participating in a blog of only like-minded thinkers strokes one’s ego and gives one the impression of ideological superiority, the truth is, if you only preach to the choir, you only recieve a false sense of security in return.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 11, 2007 @ 8:38 am
bahhhhhhhh…. STFU, Bigfoot. What a load of sh*t.
July 11th, 2007 at 8:56 amAll this invasion of privacy and data mining to keep us safe and yet all we have to go on is Michael Chertoff’s ‘gut feeling.’
July 11th, 2007 at 9:11 amThis must be what “Death Squad” Reagan meant when he talked about “getting the government off our backs.”
July 11th, 2007 at 10:21 amBased on the revelation the other day that BushCo has been outsourcing IRS collection functions to select, Republican-owned companies, including companies doing data-mining that have combined their “tax cheat” data-bases with voting registries, using this to separate Republican tax cheats from Democratic tax cheats, presumably to target Democrats while letting Republican tax cheats to skate, one can only suspect that the something similar is being done by BushCo, and Gonzales’ corrupted Justice Department, regarding these other “surveillance” data-mining programs.
The “culture of corruption” Republican Party of today has taken partisanship to almost Communistic like levels. These new and totally un-American Republicans have taken We The People and turned it into their version: We, elite members of the Republican Party, own these United States of America, and everyone not a member of our elite, righteous, holier-than-thou group must bow to the new masters of America. And anyone that disagrees with or disobeys our dictates will be discovered through the excellent work of all our Republican crony pals in the data-mining business. Hey, why else do you think we’re paying millions to our data-mining pals, including giving them money to merge voting registries with these FISA-skirting, warrantless, data-mining surveillance programs? We at Big BushCo have spoken. And soon we’re going to order the destruction of all of George Orwell’s “1984″ books. We don’t want any formerly-free U.S. citizens getting any absurd ideas about what we are attempting to do. Ya hear. BushCo has spoken. All bow to BushCo.
(certain Republicans and even a few Democrats, like Lieberman, are sick, sick, sick individuals).
July 11th, 2007 at 10:55 pm