Breaking: Webb amendment protecting U.S. troops fails.
By on Jul 11th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Breaking: Webb amendment protecting U.S. troops fails.
Senate conservatives filibustered Sen. Jim Webb’s (D-VA) amendment that would require troops to rest for as much or more time as they are deployed. Today, it failed to get the 60 votes needed (56-41) to move forward.
UPDATE: Bob Geiger has more on the vote.
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Obstructionists!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:10 pmTime for the nuclear option.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:10 pmAnd for the painfully obvious reason of not supporting the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:11 pmFor the Bush administration, the marketing of the “surge” in Iraq more and more looks like an ad for a Hollywood flop. In this case, the box office numbers are in and the film is a dismal failure. And yet a small but reliable group of friendly critics continues to offer rave reviews for “Iraq: The Surge.”
For the details, see:
July 11th, 2007 at 12:11 pm“Iraq Surge Wins Rave Reviews.”
obstructionists indeed!
now who’s not supporting the troops?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:11 pmSo it is perfectly clear where the repugnicants stand on our troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:12 pmIt’s on their necks.
I would bring this up EVERY time the Dems talk……
Provide this to the public and show them just HOW MUCH the Repubs really care about our troops……
This is discraceful and they need to be removed from office!!!
I so wonder why the Repubs really do hate America and the Military???
July 11th, 2007 at 12:12 pmREPUBLICANS DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS.
REPUBLICANS VOTED AGAINST OUR TROOPS.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:12 pmUnbelievable.
Talk about not supporting the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:12 pmWell, I guess that tells the American public who really supports the troops. Anyone who thinks that the Republics support the troops needs their heads examined.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 pmIf the soldiers rest, the terrorists win.
Just who supports the troops? 41 Senators think it’s not wise to rest the troops. that’s crap.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 pmMaybe I’m missing something, but isn’t the cloture vote to limit the debate, thus preventing the fillibuster from continuing?
Why doesn’t Reid just let the fillibuster continue for a couple of weeks, drawing intense visibility to the republican’ts stand on toturing the troops…???
July 11th, 2007 at 12:13 pmMy god! A completely innocent amendment that did nothing more than give troops time between deployments to rest, recover, retrain and spend time with their families (family values). I cannot fathom the rationale for opposing it.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:14 pmThis is more proof that republicans hate the troops. They love sending our kids to slaughter. That’s the message.
I agree with others here: remove these people from office. All of them.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:14 pmWaiting for trolls defending this vote…
July 11th, 2007 at 12:14 pmAAAAAGGGGHHHH! Let them filibuster and filibuster and filibuster and let the American people watch them! Particularly on this amendment. We have reached the point that my opinion of the Senate Democratic leadership is not only in the toilet with the rest of America’s, I’m flushing!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:14 pmWhy doesn’t Reid just let the fillibuster continue for a couple of weeks, drawing intense visibility to the republican’ts stand on toturing the troops…???
Comment by RUCerious — July 11, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
#
I agree. Does anyone have a list of those who opposed allowing our troops to rest between deployments?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:15 pmRepublican Tagline: We support the troops by not providing them with proper training or equipment. And remember, don’t ask US to serve . . . we’ll just ask daddy to get us out of it.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 pmIf ya didn’t know any better you’d think they were a tryin’ to break the Military
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 pmWhat do we all expect from a party that loves to start wars but rarely has the testicular fortitude to fight in them?
The GOP just lost a ton of military votes with this move.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:16 pmsgome interesting reading on the subject :
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070707B.shtml
July 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pmMore Repuke obstructionism.
Why do Repukes hate our troops?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pmI am glad that the Democrats forced them to filibuster. They need to do that every time the Republics threaten to filibuster so that the public can become aware of how obstructionist the Republics are being. It is not the Democrats problem, it is the Republics problem and the public needs to be made aware of that every day.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pmIt is time for Reid to call the GOP’s bluff on these filibusters. Don’t schedule the cloture vote, make the GOP actually filibuster the bill. Make it clear that no one goes home in August until there have been up or down votes on the Webb Amendment, Levin-Reed etc. Stop the gentlemanly tactics and play hardball!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pmWhere’s the trolls?
C’mon…defend this bull$hit.
I double-dog dare you.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pmWhat the F? They voted against having the troops rest between deloyments! This is outrageous.
Come on Patti1″, Jake the Fake, Mr. P(rick), all you repukian scum, what have you got to say about this, let’s hear those Rovian talking points.
Repukes suck.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:21 pm“Why doesn’t Reid just let the fillibuster continue for a couple of weeks, drawing intense visibility to the republican’ts stand on toturing the troops…???”
I agree, the Democrats need to send this to a cloture vote once a day every day until the Republics stop being obstructionists of a bill that does nothing more than pay our troops the respect they deserve.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:21 pmI can’t wait to see the Democrats on cable talk tonight hammering the republicans on this vote. This should be good.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:23 pmBut Dems are the majority….
So Dems blocked Webb too. Dems are just as much of obstructionists.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:23 pmAh, yes, but they support the troops!! They SAY they support the troops. They are obstructionists of the nth degree in their stubbornly standing behind the worse commander in chief this nation has ever seen — the blood of our soldiers, as well as Iraqis, is on their hands. I hope they sleep well – because it will be pretty hard to sleep later when they are burning in hell.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:24 pmI just called Reid’s office, letting his staffer know that the only way to expose the obstructionists is to let them filibuster. At least a filibuster would get these issues on the front pages. America would overwhelmingly have supported this amendment. Another opportunity squandered!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:24 pmWhy is it that people default to voting for Republicans. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Somehow, these vulnerable sob senators who break party ranks to “begin” withdrawal are going to be looked at as heros by the voters. They’re not heros. They did something bone-head stupid by goign to war in the first place, then only right before election time do they make gestures toward righting that wrong. Does anyone really think we’ll be out of Iraq 100% by the 2008 elections? Or ever, ever, until we elect a Dem president? Why are these middle people the heros? The ones who in the fifth year of American troops dying say “Hey, maybe we can get some political cover, and maybe keep our jobs despite not protecting Americans and instead putting them into the middle of the GD CF that is Iraq so they can die by legislating some half-measures that have all sorts of loopholes, and nothing will actually happen, but we can tell our voters that we ‘tried.’”
Why? And why do people vote for them? Are they that afraid of the gays? Do they really only care about life before birth? Do they believe that someday they will be rich, and they’ll want super nice tax rates then? Do they have so small of penises that they need their guns? Are they just so aggressive that they need their country at war to be happy? Are they just so fear-striken that they can’t think? Do they think Democrats will revoke their religious freedoms? Do they want to kill the infidels practicing non-Christianity? What the hell is the underlying issue here? I just don’t get it.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pmBut Dems are the majority….
So Dems blocked Webb too. Dems are just as much of obstructionists.
Comment by Anonymous By Choice
WTF are you talking about?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pmWow.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pm#30, what are you talking about? Their majority of one is reduced to a tie because one Dem is still out sick.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:26 pmGood. It’s time the troops learned who really supports them. The GOP bias in the military will finally be broken by this pointless war and the gutless non-support for the troops of the Republicans
July 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pmWe finally got a troll, even stupider than most of them.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pmSenate conservatives filibustered Sen. Jim Webb’s (D-VA) amendment that would require troops to rest for as much or more time as they are deployed.
Do we need any more proof that the Republicans do NOT support the Troops?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:27 pmHell they don’t give a f*cking damn about the troops.
Ok, tie the links together. One voter suppression tactic was to send letters to soldiers, marked “do not forward.” When those letters came back because the soldier was in Iraq, the Republican Party challenged that soldier’s vote.
Put this together with the “surge” and continually extended tours of duty, and the troops over there won’t be around to vote in 2008.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:28 pmREPUBLICANS WANT TO KILL OUR TROOPS! WTF?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:28 pmRemind me folks, who was crying about getting an “UP OR DOWN VOTE” a year or two ago?
Freekin hypocrites!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:29 pmIt’s amazing how much the Republicans have openly attacked the troops. Underfunding, underequipping, overextended deployments, reduced and eliminated benefits, eliminated community support for military families…
Bush isn’t at war with Al Queda, he’s at war with the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:29 pmAfter the next election, there won’t be a problem getting the 60 votes that was needed.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:29 pmJust how many Reps that are up for reelection next time are going to be there?
Not surprised, but how come Democrats are not able to filibuster anything?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:30 pmwho are the 41 traitors?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:30 pmWell, time IS ticking on the Neocon plans for world conquest.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:31 pmTo: anonymous by choice:
You said,
“But Dems are the majority….
So Dems blocked Webb too. Dems are just as much of obstructionists”
This ignores that to get cloture, you need 60 votes. The Democrats really start out with only 48. (Leiberman is not reachable and Tim Johnson is out for medical reasons. ) Therefore, if we get ALL the other Democrats to vote YES – we still need 12 Republicans.
I watched C-SPAN on this count and the “NO” votes were almost all Republican – I think Nelson (D, NE) was the ONLY Democrat. I don’t know if there were any non-voting Democrats – on this type of vote a “not voting” is equivilent to a NO in not counting towards the 60.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:32 pmThis is the most retarded think I’ve read all week. I can see why you choose to be anonymous.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
nope. It is had for him, but he sank even lower tha other day
July 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pmCorrection – no Democrat voted “NO”
July 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pmDoes anyone have a list of the 41 who opposed?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pm‘Support Our Troops’ to some politicians is just a slogan…but when it comes to really support the troops,these politicians failed the troops again…
July 11th, 2007 at 12:34 pmI am sure also that Lieberamn(I) who talks about sniping the troops by Democrats,he voted ‘No’ to give a ‘rest time’ for the troops…
These people will be remembered on next years elections day.
Too bad for those GOP senators who supported Webb’s amendment and are hoping to be re-elected in ‘08. They might still lose their seats next year because of the other 40 dickheads in their party, plus the dickhead Lieberman who’s in a party of his own. What a shame.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:35 pmThe cons have never supported the troops, they support the drunk in the White House and nothing else.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:35 pm#41
REPUBLICANS WANT TO KILL OUR TROOPS! WTF?
Comment by Fan_of_Man
shhhhh !! they have a slogan “We support our troops”
July 11th, 2007 at 12:35 pmwhen they post them, one hour or so, they will be here
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00241
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmThe Senate clerk hasn’t posted the count yet. Should be up within the hour.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmIsaiah 57:21 – There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
So if the bible says that, my question is, why do conservatives think our troops are wicked? That’s no way to support them. Apparently yellow ribbon magnets are the only way.
So the question remains:
What do conservatives hate?
a) Our Troops
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmb) The Bible
c) Both
#54, dont forget the magnet that says that also says, “Made in China”…..
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmI am sure also that Lieberamn(I) who talks about sniping the troops by Democrats,he voted ‘No’ to give a ‘rest time’ for the troops…
These people will be remembered on next years elections day.
Comment by tarazan — July 11, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
–
July 11th, 2007 at 12:37 pmtarazan – I hope so. the dems don’t seem to be able to ever punch them in the mouth when the opportunity is there. There is a lot of dead wood there.
I am sure also that Lieberamn(I) who talks about sniping the troops by Democrats,he voted ‘No’ to give a ‘rest time’ for the troops…
These people will be remembered on next years elections day.
Comment by tarazan — July 11, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
I wish LIEberman were up for election next year. I’m sure Connecticut must have come to its senses by now.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:39 pmTwo words: “Nuclear Option”.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:40 pmThat’s how the Repubs shoved their two right wing extremist judges onto the Notso Supreme Court.
Time to give the Obstructionist Repubs a taste of their own medicine.
I want the names of the senators that voted against this. I also want a break down of how much combat time they have seen.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pmTwo words: “Nuclear Optionâ€
Comment by OxyCon — July 11, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
#
Agreed.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:41 pmI don’t get it.
Just yesterday they were on the Hill saying how poorly the war in Iraq was going. Now this?
I’m losing faith in my elected officials, I really am.
Thanks 41! Much appreciated. (was it that big a deal, really?)
July 11th, 2007 at 12:44 pmEqual time at home as away was too much to ask? Like to see how the 41 naysayers would handle it.
It’s official: The Republican party does not support our troops!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:45 pmTheir ability to stick together even when they are dead wrong, + commiting future political suicide, is just astounding.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:49 pmWhy don’t webb support our troops??Why would he want them to have a longer stay at home??For real why would they block this bill I mean what’s wrong with it??
July 11th, 2007 at 12:50 pmsome one needs to roll up to 1600 Pennsylvania with dump truck packed full of horse shit with a HUGE banner on the side that says OUR TROOPS THANK YOU! dump it and leave….
July 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pmTime to give the Obstructionist Repubs a taste of their own medicine
Sorry, cant do that. It will be invalidated by Pelosi’s magnificent ‘Minority Bill of Rights’, resurrected to fire back down her throat.
See how politics works now?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:51 pmI call for 10,000 real Americans to join me on the capital steps with handfulls of poo!
Just put a few ads in the local papers, Im sure there are plenty of war protesters from the Vietnam-era who may have some dogcrap left over.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:53 pmThat’s how the Repubs shoved their two right wing extremist judges onto the Notso Supreme Court.
Time to give the Obstructionist Repubs a taste of their own medicine.
Newsflash, genius…they didn’t use the nuclear option.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:54 pmYep and the next Dem president will also have te powers of the unitary executive the republicans are so fond of.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:54 pmComment by Blackwater
did they do that?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:54 pmI read recently on some blog that there is no so such term as “Disgraced Republican” or “Disgraced Conservative” – is it true ??
or I guess people (of course in MSM) doesn’t have enough guts to say it aloud.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:55 pmComment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
What are your feelings on this amendment? Do you believe our troops should be given a rest between deployments equal to the amount of time deployed?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThere are a whole lotta younger people just waiting for direction. SO, it isn’t just “Vietname-era” protestors you need to worry about.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:56 pmYep and the next Dem president will also have te powers of the unitary executive the republicans are so fond of.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
And don’t forget the Omnipotant Power of the Fourth Branch!
The Invisible Branch! just like The Invisible Enemy! Al Qaeda!
July 11th, 2007 at 12:57 pmYep and the next Dem president will also have the powers of the unitary executive the republicans are so fond of.
Comment by Spudge_Boy
Yeah, chuckle… chuckle… I’ve been wondering about that. It otter B interesting when the time comes.
But where will Dems ever find their own equivalent of BigDickâ„¢???
July 11th, 2007 at 12:57 pmOk TP, this is getting ridiculous. I post with the word a$$hat in it and you delete my post. And yet you allow all these multiple personality trolls to take over almost every thread. What’s up with that?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:58 pmGordon Smith wants to be re-elected. That’s all there is to his votes. He gave an interview to the local rag last week and talked about how he came to realize how the country is divided, blah, blah, blah. He waited until after the 2006 election, saw how the wind was blowing, read his polls that Oregon is getting ever more blue, and only then spoke up. And yet the idiot pundits in this state keep praising him for his ‘courage.’ Make me want to hurl.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:58 pmWhat are your feelings on this amendment? Do you believe our troops should be given a rest between deployments equal to the amount of time deployed?
I don’t think the Democrats should be given a red cent until they stop blocking Bush’s executive and judicial nominations.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:58 pmNewsflash, genius…they didn’t use the nuclear option.
Comment by m12
Back on track, Li’l Emmie, let’s hear you defend the Repubs stopping Webb’s amendment. Please, share your brilliant wisdom on this one.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pm“…people need to understand that the GOP Senators — and Lieberman — are FILIBUSTERING…. ”
GOP Senators Plus Lieberman = 50 That leaves at least 6 who were of the Dems caucus who also filibustered.
July 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pmBut where will Dems ever find their own equivalent of BigDickâ„¢???
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity
Rose O’Donnell?
July 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pmThanks 41! Much appreciated. (was it that big a deal, really?)
Equal time at home as away was too much to ask? Like to see how the 41 naysayers would handle it.
Comment by SGT Higgins — July 11, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
I’m sorry, Sarge. I haven’t seen the vote, but I know both of my Senators will be in that 41.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:00 pmI don’t think the Democrats should be given a red cent until they stop blocking Bush’s executive and judicial nominations.
Comment by m12
SORRY!!! Not an answer to the question presented! NEXT!!!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:00 pmThis is pathetic. I love how when the Dems do it, it’s a filibuster. When the republicans do it…they just say it failed, or that the cloture vote didn’t pass. Wtf? How many times is this now? I’m all for the filibuster, but they should be forced to friggin stand there and talk about the bill nonstop, none of this … well, yeah, you’re only supposed to need 50%, but see, we have this cloture thing, so you really need 2/3rds if its something the republicans didn’t like. I gotta hand it to them though, at least they stand up for what they believe in (no matter how dillusional). It just reminds me of all the crap that the Dems just rolled over and died on before they took back congress.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:00 pmI had it backwards sorry.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:02 pmWhatever happened to the pursuit of “An up or down vote.” that the Republican party so aptly used when they were in power and the dems couldn’t filibuster against for one reason or another?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:02 pmI don’t think the Democrats should be given a red cent until they stop blocking Bush’s executive and judicial nominations.
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
#
What does that have to do with this amendment? What does giving more money to the dems have to do with allowing our troops to rest between deployments?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:02 pmGOP Senators Plus Lieberman = 50 That leaves at least 6 who were of the Dems caucus who also filibustered.
Comment by Troll
I think you’re a bit math-challenged. The vote was 56-41. The Dems needed 60 votes to move the amendment forward. That means they were 4 votes short, not that 6 of them helped block it. Geez, get an education!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pm“Yep and the next Dem president will also have te powers of the unitary executive the republicans are so fond of.”
But if that were to happen, I guarantee that the Lemming Republics will be howling in protest. I am constantly amazed at how they don’t see what hypocrites they are.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 11, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
This amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pmSenator Webb’s amendment is more than reasonable.
But, we all know, why the Administrations and the Republic Party are blocking the amendment and why Mr Bush would surely veto it, if it came thus far.
The troops are overextended so badly, that they wouldn’t be able to hold the number of troops deployed to Iraq, if they weren’t able to extend the tours and redeploy almost immediately after the end of tours. They would have to admit, that the USA is militarily weakened to a point where the military is dysfunctional in ensuring America’s security and interests in the world. So, Webb’s amendment would force them to get out of Iraq to be able to live up to the rules of this amendment.
No we can put into the basket “Things broken by the Bush Adminstration”:
The Constitution (Habeas Corpus!)
The Reputation (Ask whoever foreigner comes your way!)
The Budget (Deficit, anybody?)
New Orleans (Don’t blame it on Katrina!)
The Environment (Al Gore’s right and so is the science!)
The Economy (Wait and see, we’re not quite there yet!)
and
The Military of the United States of America
This list is most probably not complete. So feel free to add items.
Draft Gore!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pmWhatever happened to the pursuit of “An up or down vote.†that the Republican party so aptly used when they were in power and the dems couldn’t filibuster against for one reason or another?
What happened was they didn’t get an up or down vote. What goes around comes around.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pmI think you’re a bit math-challenged. The vote was 56-41. The Dems needed 60 votes to move the amendment forward. That means they were 4 votes short, not that 6 of them helped block it. Geez, get an education!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 11, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
#
The good news is that this also means 9 republicans also supported it. Not enough, but it’s a start.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI had it backwards sorry.
Comment by Troll — July 11, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Story of your life, eh?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:05 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 11, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
This amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!
Comment by m12
ANOTHER blatant dodge on your part! NEXT!!!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pmI’m sorry, Sarge. I haven’t seen the vote, but I know both of my Senators will be in that 41.
Comment by Zooey
I’m not blamin’ you, Zoo. Still like to see these 41 try it for a couple years, see how well their families hold up.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pmThe good news is that this also means 9 republicans also supported it. Not enough, but it’s a start.
Comment by Chris L
Yes, I noticed that too. Agreed. It’s a start.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pmThis amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
Cut & Run is Sensible when you,re LOSING!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
What happened was they didn’t get an up or down vote. What goes around comes around.
Comment by m12
Yet another meaningless answer. You’re battin’ .000 this morning, Li’l Emmie! NEXT!!!!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:08 pmThis amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
#
So, allowing troops to rest, retrain, and re-equip between deployments is a “cut and run strategy”? Have you been to Iraq? I spent 18 months there. At the end of it, our equipment was completely useless. We couldn’t give it away. Numerous troops had children they hadn’t met yet, divorces, and other personal issues to take care of. Not to mention the mental stress that had been caused for 18 months.
All they are asking for is rest between deployments.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:09 pmDang, there’s something pure and refreshing about seeing a troll of the level of He’s12 admitting that he doesn’t support the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:10 pmWith tongue in cheek I wonder how Joe Loserman, the Senator from Israel, voted.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:12 pmI know it was stated above, and I am not intending to insult anyone’s intelligence here, but just to clear up some misunderstandings.
Yes the Dems have a slim majority in the Senate.
And an up or down vote needs only simple majority to pass a bill.
Or 51 votes.
However a cloture vote, or motion to end debate (filibuster) and put the measure up for a s simple majority vote as mentioned above, requires
a count of 60 Senators not 51. The cloture motion failed
by 4 votes.
Hence, the reason this Webb bill failed. is because it was never put up for a vote. The cloture motion was.
Keep on, keepin’ on, peeps.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:12 pmComment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
What do you know about the second world war?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:13 pmAll they are asking for is rest between deployments.
Comment by Chris L
Chris, it s/b abundantly clear by now that all these rightwingers worry about is their political standing, period! You watch, as “Congress’ approval rating” sinks even lower due to BS like this, the trolls will be pointing out how “the Librul-Dem Congress” is even more unpopular than Herr Bruschâ„¢…
July 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pmProtecting the troops? How about protecting America?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pmI don’t think the Democrats should be given a red cent until they stop blocking Bush’s executive and judicial nominations.
Comment by m12
Translation: political ideology trumps the troops.
Let’s never hear another line of crap from i’m12 about how Democrats don’t really care for the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:16 pm“This amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!”
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
They didn’t need to. The Second World War was over in four years.
The Bush Administration’s incompetence hurts everyone, but especially our troops who you claim to support.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:16 pmHmmm… it appears that Li’l Emmie has vamoosed, for the time being. Perhaps his mom needed her dress back so she could go to the 2nd job she has to keep because he refuses to support himself…
On the other hand, he was gittin’ beaten like a little tin drum, so maybe he just ran off and hid, period.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:18 pmThank you Chucklenuts, informative.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:19 pmIt’s not about political standing. It’s about the industry money that they want to keep getting.
Webb is pushing for more time between deployments, and BushCo knows that that will weaken our presence there and serve as a precursor to exit.
The money that backs Bush also keeps the Senators paid. Bush calls the money guys, and they call the Senators.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:19 pmThe White House and the GOP have given lip service for 4 years about our troops. Connie and Tony Snow call the dead soldiers numbers and Americans just set back and watch the conditions at Walter Reed. All talk no action. Now it’s time to blame someone else for the GOP actions let’s blame Reid. Next we’ll hear it’s Clinton’s fault. Look Iraq was invaded by the US and the United States was invaded from within. The GOP plan goes back to the election that George H. Bush lost to Clinton. Karl Rove was brought in and used God to suck in all the Christians it worked. Now Americans are is confused they believe we have an honest White House and GOP. The White House is using staff to lie under oath, a janitor can get executive privilege if he heard something and Bush/Cheney lie to your face and say who cares your not going to do anything about it. Their right Americans are to busy watching and voting on an American Idol. Our troops are being used until they die and no one cares so all this talk means nothing. If the draft were opened the invasion would end and troops would come home why? Because Americans don’t want to die for something that’s based on lies, but it’s ok for those other Americans. All the media anchors talk of Supporting the Troops yet their kids aren’t going to join the military and they wont let them. Once you clear out the colleges and make them soldiers it stops faster then you can blink your eye. What how fast the trolls use the famous Cheney 5 ferment policy.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:19 pmand they call the Senators.
Comment by RodFlanders
I take it you’re referring to the 41 Repubs who blocked cloture.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:21 pmFor information: Required reading – How does the filibuster work:
http://www.slate.com/id/2078519/
Today, the threat of a filibuster often replaces the genuine article. Senators have grown accustomed to warning they will stage a filibuster and then watching the Senate move on to other business, secure that they’ll never actually have to pull an all-nighter. According to Sen. Byrd, it’s a “casual, gentlemanly, good-guy filibuster. … Everybody goes home and gets a good night’s sleep, and everybody protects everybody else.”
Basically it comes down to moving the number of votes needed to 60. That’s all.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:21 pm…and what Chucklenuts said in #106
July 11th, 2007 at 1:23 pmIt would be good to have a list of those that blocked the vote, their party and if they served in the military or not.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:25 pmIt would be good to have a list of those that blocked the vote, their party and if they served in the military or not.
Comment by nigel
Indeed…
July 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pm#121. Just checked the Senate website and the votes aren’t listed yet but as soon as they are I’ll cut and paste the blockers. I’m pretty sure there will be a steady email/phone call campaign once the list is made public.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pmThis all goes back to the moral cowardice of the right wing and the Bush administration.
Because Bush is unwilling to start the draft back up to support his illegal war, our troops are being forced to go back to Iraq again and again and again. If the bill had passed, Bush would of course not have the troops he needs, so he’d have to end the war or start a draft.
And since he won’t end the war, and he won’t start a draft because it would cause terrible damage to the republican party, he instead forces the troops to serve endlessly in his war.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pmM12: “I don’t think the Democrats should be given a red cent until they stop blocking Bush’s executive and judicial nominations.”
M12: ““This amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!â€
Portrait of a Bush cultist: the military is nothing more than something you use to make political capital. When the well-being of Bush is pitted against the well-being of Bush, the troops lose every time. Only people completely devoid of principles and conscience can treat our system this way. Sociopaths. That’s what we’re dealing with here.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:35 pmSorry, I meant to post that for a Bush cultist, when the well-being of the troops is pitted against the political well-being of Bush, the troops lose every time.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:36 pmJust when you think they have a shred of self respect the usual trolls pop up and prove you wrong. They are totally incapable of admitting that Bush and his cabal could do anything wrong.
What kind of sick f*cks would defend Bush’s ego at every turn?
Look closely at these trolls folks, they are the sickest, most twisted, pathetic losers you will ever encounter.
Proof that a diet of Bush’s smag and dingleberries will adle your brain.
Worthless scum.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:39 pm“This amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy. They did not have anything of the sort in place during the second world war!â€
Comment by m12
Beautiful. Apparently you know deep down you have no leg to stand on so you try strawmen and topic changing. STFU.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:39 pmBeautiful. Apparently you know deep down you have no leg to stand on so you try strawmen and topic changing. STFU.
Comment by CONservative
Li’l Emmie packed it in and ran off 20 minutes ago.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:43 pmThey didn’t have to have a bill, because the presidnet then was smart enough to know that troops need a rest from the constant hell that war is.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:46 pm“Gordon Smith wants to be re-elected. That’s all there is to his votes. He gave an interview to the local rag last week and talked about how he came to realize how the country is divided, blah, blah, blah.”
Hi Powkat – I take it that you are a fellow Oregonian. I live in Corvallis. I agree with your assessment of Gordon Smith. He has a reputation for becoming more “moderate” before an election and then going back to his old ways once he is reelected. I believe he has a 93% rating of voting with Bush. I firmly believe if the Democrats can come up with any viable candidate, Smith is history. Personally I would love to see his opponent Darlene Hooley, she’s my representative and she’s great!
July 11th, 2007 at 1:48 pmSo now we know that the GOP does not support our troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmYeah, you are right.
They had a DRAFT! They had victory gardens. They had increased taxes to pay for the war. They had rations. The few American people that were left behind here sacrificed so that those fighting could have the manpower and equipment they needed. WHAT HAVE YOU SACRIFICED?
How many in WWII did more than one tour with a rest between shorter than their deployment?
I have served in Iraq – HAVE YOU?
July 11th, 2007 at 1:52 pmLet me fix this for you:
Closer to reality that way.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:54 pmI just got off the phone with my Senator’s D.C. office (Voinovich), expressing my outrage at his vote on cloture on the Webb amendment today. I waited on hold for ten minutes (which is a good sign, I guess–hopefully, others are calling to object as well) only to hear, “Thanks for calling” as their response.
I guess when one’s position is so hypocritical as to be undefendable, there isn’t much else to say.
Gutless. Shameful. There is no decency left in the Republican Party anymore. Just count the number of GOPers who voted for cloture who also happen to be running for reelection in 2008 to recognize that we need to work harder than ever, now and going forward, to make sure that they never get control of the Senate again.
July 11th, 2007 at 1:57 pmKatie, I hope every fisherman in Oregon understands that Gordon Smith is personally responsible for the largest fish kill in the history of the West.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:00 pmBeing a father of 4 children, this really pi$$es me off! Yesterday, I spent a wonderful evening with family and friends celebrating our youngest daughter’s 4th Birthday.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:01 pmI CANNOT imagine missing such events as that, and I surely CANNOT fanthom spending more time deployed then with family, and I really, really, REALLY CANNOT believe these hypocritical f*cks would actually filibuster this amendment.
Party of family values, my f*ckin’ a$$!
(and don’t ask me how I really feel about this!!!)
Comment by War4Sale — July 11, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
I read that WW2 was over in 4 years pretty often, but that’s really too simple a story.
The United States’ participation was just under 4 years: 12/7/41 to 9/2/45. Other countries fought longer, but I want to describe the USA.
After the Japanese attack in 12/41, a very small fraction of the eventual US commitment was engaged immediately, mostly in the Pacific theater. Even at WW2’s peak, only 6 divisions of Marines were ever called up. Though they were augmented by many thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen, their total number was smaller than the number fighting in Europe. Combat in the Pacific theater ended in September 1945.
In the European theater, US Army troops landed in Africa in late 1942. Those troops were reinforced before landing in Sicily, and reinforced again to land in Italy during 1943. In Normandy, the largest number of American soldiers were committed in June and July of 1944. Then the war ended in May 1945.
So what we had was this: A tiny number of American servicemen in combat beginning in 1941. A larger, though still very small number entered combat in 1942. A larger force was committed in 1943. But the big grandaddy of American forces was not committed until the middle of 1944.
That means the greater number of our soldiers fought only about one year, many more fought just over 2 years. That’s not to say that their effort was trivial – quite the contrary, perhaps the brevity of their effort is testament to the significance of their achievement.
My point is that despite the overal duration of WW2, American soldiers were, by and large, asked to make only about one-half to one-fourth the effort we are requiring of our young men and women. Any equivalence to WW2 is silly and uninformed.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:06 pmSpudge Boy,
Are you saying that nanlichi is a troll, or are you saying that there is only one troll with different identities?
If it’s the former, I am really curious as to why?
July 11th, 2007 at 2:12 pmThis amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy…
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
—————————————————————————
It is sad to think that TPers didn’t know that. I am glad that their opinions are not those of intelligent Americans.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pmSince not even the smoothest Repub can spin this despicable vote, look for another eye-catching but amateurish terrorist attack in the next few days. Or another terrorist cell busted planning to blow up–oh, Disneyland? OR we will kill the 47th #2 Al Qaeda leader. Anything to distract attention–Chertoff’s certainly doing his bit. The “newsroom” at Fox must be salivating.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:19 pmThis needs to be a talking point from this day forward to election day. If any congressional republican that voted against the Webb amendment spouts any bs about supporting the troops, this needs to be thrown back in their faces! Yes, and that includes Lieberman!!
July 11th, 2007 at 2:19 pmThis amendment is nothing but cut and run strategy…
Comment by m12 — July 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm
…and thinly veiled at that!
July 11th, 2007 at 2:20 pmIt is sad to think that TPers didn’t know that. I am glad that their opinions are not those of intelligent Americans.
Comment by PiP
F*ck both of you. OFF-THREAD! NEXT!!!
July 11th, 2007 at 2:25 pmI am telling you that we are dealing with one troll posting under multiple names.
Look at the posting style used. It is very clearly a single troll.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pm“Katie, I hope every fisherman in Oregon understands that Gordon Smith is personally responsible for the largest fish kill in the history of the West.”
Actually, it was both Chaney and Smith who were responsible. There’s a good article about it at BlueOregon.com. They have filed a FOIA against Cheney:
http://www.blueoregon.com/2007/07/loaded-orygun-f.html
Not that he’s going to pay any attention to the FOIA. Apparently they don’t apply to Chaney.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:27 pmOnly a sociopathic Bush cultist could construe a bill requiring that troops get more rest between combat duty as a “cut and run strategy.” Again, when it’s between the political well-being of Bush and the well-being of the troops, the Bush cultist will choose Bush every time. This time their complete lack of decency and American values is laid bare for all of us to behold. And, it’s just downright ugly.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:28 pm“F*ck both of you. OFF-THREAD! NEXT!!!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity “
Can’t we just stop feeding the trolls. That is the only hope we have of taking this board back for the people who really care.
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
July 11th, 2007 at 2:29 pmHere, llok at this:
Now look at this from the Taylor thread:
These are clearly the same person posting under different names. Ringo also posts using the same exact style.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:31 pmI agree, Katie, though I have to admit…it’s OH SO TEMPTING! :)
July 11th, 2007 at 2:32 pm“OR we will kill the 47th #2 Al Qaeda leader.”
Or, we can kill them twice. I thought it was hysterical the other day when they announced they had killed a high level al Qaeda operative. Only problem was that they had killed this person over a year ago. Not quite sure how you can kill a corpse!
July 11th, 2007 at 2:34 pmDanCaveman
Thank you
July 11th, 2007 at 2:36 pmSpudge, you’re right on, as usual. Somehow, it is encouraging to me to know that there are actually fewer of these sick, fallen excuses for humans. I guess when your numbers are down in the mid twenties and 3 out of 4 people don’t agree with you, you have to use desparate measures. But, Katie is right. I need to break myself of this habit I have of trying to engage trolls. They’re simply not worth it.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:41 pmNot quite sure how you can kill a corpse!
Comment by Katie
But think of the possibilities! We can do Saddam Hussein again, and Karla Faye Tucker… I mean, you gotta realize what this will do for Brusch’s ratings. “We hereby sentence you to “Double-death…”
July 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pmThey’re simply not worth it.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
But Whack-A-Troll is such good, wholesome fun, and a complete workout! The whole family can play!
BTW Col, speak w/ Mandrake recently?
July 11th, 2007 at 2:46 pmWe could kill Mohammed Atta’s good twin, Skippy.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI haven’t spoken to Mandrake since he was sent to the Falklands. But, I do get together with former Sgt. Guano for neutral grain spirits from time to time.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pmI love me a good troll-bashing once in a while. When a thread has deteriorated beyond recognition of any topic, I love to take on some troll. As I am sitting in Europe I get a lot of posts late and the counter is way up to 400+ then. Whenever I see such a number of comments I know the thread is dead. I vent my spleen then.
As lons as serious discussion is going on, I try to contribute to the topic. Works quite well normally, I was hit with some very nasty comments lately, though and that took the fun out of troll-bashing.
July 11th, 2007 at 2:57 pmI haven’t spoken to Mandrake since he was sent to the Falklands. But, I do get together with former Sgt. Guano for neutral grain spirits from time to time.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Ah yes, good old Lionel. Did he ever have to pay for that vending machine? And how is Bat Guano doing? Did he ever go above Sgt?
July 11th, 2007 at 3:05 pmThis is sad:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/04/AR2007050402151.html?hpid=topnews
“The authors of the Army document argued that the strains placed on troops in Iraq are in some ways more severe than those borne by the combat forces of World War II. ‘A considerable number of Soldiers and Marines are conducting combat operations everyday of the week, 10-12 hours per day seven days a week for months on end,’ wrote Col. Carl Castro and Maj. Dennis McGurk, both psychologists. ‘At no time in our military history have Soldiers or Marines been required to serve on the front line in any war for a period of 6-7 months.’
“And although U.S. casualties in Iraq are far lower than in the Vietnam War, for example, military experts say that Iraq can be a more stressful environment. In Vietnam, there were rear areas that were considered safe, but in Iraq there are no truly secure areas outside big bases. ‘The front in Iraq is any place not on a base camp’ or a forward operating base, the report noted.
“The authors recommended that soldiers be given breathers during combat tours and intervals of 18 to 36 months between such tours, substantially longer than they are allowed now.”
July 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pm“I am glad that their opinions are not those of intelligent Americans.”
ROFL… Oh, I so want you to run on that platform: “70% of you are not intelligent; the rest of you should vote Republican!”
July 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pmSpudge Boy,
Late getting back to this thread, but you are right about the trolls posting under different names, and enjoying the closed little circle jerk loop they create. I think there are about 3 of them though.
If we could ignore them they would go away, but how long have you heard that? Someone (myself included) gets too pissed to hold back and engages the braindeads.
I will try harder.
For Katie. She has been begging all week.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pmI have been hearing “ignore the trolls and they will go away” for as long as Think Progress has been on the Internet. We have even all tried it for a couple of weeks and it didn’t do anything. They were still here, but nobody had straightened out the lies, so there the lies sit for the lurkers to read without the lies being debunked.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:26 pmI appreciate it, but no thanks is necessary. I was (and am willing) to die for the ideals that this country once embodied.
I went to Iraq try and help provide security while the US rebuilt the infrastructure we broke.
We provided security, but the reconstruction never came!
The power plant in the area I was in, is still non-operational. Instead of sinking money into Iraqi companies to give them jobs, we give it to Haliburton for meals and water they don’t supply.
For every friend we make we make six (or more) enemies. They learn from our tactics and get more deadly every day.
We never lose a battle, but can’t win the war because we are undermined by our own Commander In Chief.
I am out now and trying to do my part as a citizen and set our government on the right track to be a leader – NOT an aggressor, but my pleas fall on deaf ears.
I don’t recognize the country that I LOVE
I am losing hope! Whether the trolls are being sarcastic or just having a laugh at the expense of the lives of our service members, it is disgusting!
July 11th, 2007 at 3:32 pmHi Katie – yep, fellow Oregonian here – from the People’s Republic of Portland. I have some hope Gordo might get the ax – the Big O had a letter the other day from someone who said he’d been an R all his life, but he was so disgusted that he was going to vote for nothing but Dems until the R’s came to their sense. And Steve Novick is pretty savvy.
July 11th, 2007 at 3:43 pm“Up or down vote! Up or down vote!” they bleated. “The Democrats are being obstructionist! They can’t handle the fact that they lost the election! They’re a bunch of sore losers!” Pissant rethugs.
July 11th, 2007 at 4:03 pmSo much for supporting the troops.
July 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmGeorge Bush: First president to kill 650,000 human beings in a country that did nothing to harm us. And counting…
July 11th, 2007 at 4:07 pmHere are the nay votes:
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bond (R-MO)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thune (R-SD)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Not Voting – 3
Brownback (R-KS)
July 11th, 2007 at 4:35 pmJohnson (D-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
The link to the vote is here.
July 11th, 2007 at 4:36 pmmarlow: “George Bush: First president to kill 650,000 human beings in a country that did nothing to harm us. And counting…”
That’s right, and I’d like to point out that a number of the people who were executed after the Nuremberg Trials were convicted of fighting an “illegal war of aggression.”
July 11th, 2007 at 4:57 pm“Give them an enema. It will give them sense of accomplishment” (Dracula: Dead and Loving It, 1995).
So the constipated Senate was stopped up yet again with a Republican filibuster of Senator Jim Webb’s legislation. You’d think just good ol’ fashion shame would eventually break through the “All for the Party” mentality of this crew, but apparently they don’t have any shame. I dare any one of them to tout his/her support for the troops during the upcoming campaign season and challenge the MSM to point out their hypocrisy when they do.
We need a filibuster thermometer to track the number of bills prevented from ever reaching our elected officials by this bunch.
July 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pmJohnson (D-SD) is slated to come back in September. After that, the rational Senator count will be 51, when you include Sanders (I-VT). That is when the nuclear option will be viable. Currently you have 48 Republicans and LIEberman (Likud Israel) voting against any progress in the Senate.
July 11th, 2007 at 5:43 pmThis vote shows that the republicans don’t want our troops to come home to their families for a reasonable amount of time for rest before they are sent back. If they really supported the troops they would have voted for the Webb amendment. If they supported the troops they would not have stood against a pay increase for our troops. Neither would have Bush asked for a cut in research for traumatic brain injury in his budget to Congress. The Walter Reed scandal shows how little they care for our returning troops. The troops must always come before the policy. Clearly that didn’t happen with this vote. Our troops deserve better.
July 11th, 2007 at 7:53 pm