The Ever Changing Definition of ‘Mission’ In Iraq
The Ever Changing Definition of ‘Mission’ In Iraq
In June 2005, ThinkProgress noted the Bush was constantly revising the definition of our “mission” in Iraq.
Reporting on his escalation strategy this week, President Bush claimed “satisfactory” progress in many areas of the “new mission” in Iraq. Bush has changed the definition of our “mission” in Iraq so many times, he has made it impossible for the American public, U.S. forces, and the Iraqi population to have any confidence that the mission will be ever completed.
THE PRE-WAR MISSION WAS TO RID IRAQ OF WMD
Bush: “Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament.” [3/6/03]
AFTER THE WAR BEGAN, THE MISSION EXPANDED
Bush: “Our cause is just, the security of the nations we serve and the peace of the world. And our mission is clear, to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein’s support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people.” [3/22/03]
Bush: “Our forces have been given a clear mission: to end a regime that threatened its neighbors and the world with weapons of mass destruction and to free a people that had suffered far too long.” [4/14/03]
THEN THE MISSION WAS COMPLETE
Bush: “On Thursday, I visited the USS Abraham Lincoln, now headed home after the longest carrier deployment in recent history. I delivered good news to the men and women who fought in the cause of freedom: Their mission is complete, and major combat operations in Iraq have ended.” [5/3/03]
BUT THEN IT CONTINUED AGAIN
Bush: “The United States and our allies will complete our mission in Iraq.” [7/30/03]
THEN THE MISSION WAS TO DEVELOP A FREE IRAQ
Bush: “That has been our mission all along, to develop the conditions such that a free Iraq will emerge, run by the Iraqi citizens.” [11/4/03]
Bush: “We will see that Iraq is free and self-governing and democratic. We will accomplish our mission.” [5/4/04]
AND TO TRAIN THE IRAQI TROOPS
Bush: “And our mission is clear there, as well, and that is to train the Iraqis so they can do the fighting; make sure they can stand up to defend their freedoms, which they want to do.” [6/2/05]
Bush: “We’re making progress toward the goal, which is, on the one hand, a political process moving forward in Iraq, and on the other hand, the Iraqis capable of defending themselves. And we will — we will complete this mission for the sake of world peace.” [6/20/05]
THEN IT SHIFTED TO ADVANCING DEMOCRACY
Bush: “We will stay as long as necessary to complete the mission. … Advancing the ideal of democracy and self-government is the mission that created our nation — and now it is the calling of a new generation of Americans.” [11/30/05]
AND PROTECTING AMERICA FROM TERRORISTS
Bush: “In the coming days, there will be considerable reflection on the removal of Saddam Hussein from power and our remaining mission in Iraq…By helping the Iraqi people build a free and representative government, we will deny the terrorists a safe haven to plan attacks against America.” [3/11/06]
Bush: “We will finish the mission. By defeating the terrorists in Iraq, we will bring greater security to our own country. And when victory is achieved, our troops will return home with the honor they have earned.” [3/18/06]
THEN THE MISSION WAS PROVIDING SECURITY FOR THE IRAQI POPULATION
Bush: “In fact, we have a new strategy with a new mission: helping secure the population, especially in Baghdad. Our plan puts Iraqis in the lead.” [1/13/07]
Bush: “[I]t’s the combination of providing security in neighborhoods through these joint security stations, and training that is the current mission we’re going through, with a heavy emphasis on security in Baghdad.” [4/10/07]
AND NOW?
Bush: “It’s a new mission. And David Petraeus is in Iraq carrying it out. Its goal is to help the Iraqis make progress toward reconciliation — to build a free nation that respects the rights of its people, upholds the rule of law, and is an ally against the extremists in this war.” [6/28/07]
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All Bush is doing is missioning our troops into a circular firing squad. No plan B, no regard for the wasted time and lives of our brave young people. It’a all about ego and pawning this war over to the next President.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:35 amHe’s quite the missionary. I always figured Iraq was a faith-based initiative.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:36 amGreat post.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:37 am…”and it has nothing to do with oil”
July 14th, 2007 at 9:38 amAnd still no mention of the real mission–”OIL”.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:39 amAnd lest we forget, somewhere along in there it went form a secure Iraq to a secure Baghdad.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:39 amcould we possibly have a free nation (here…US) that respects the rights of its people and upholds the rule of law…why over there and not here??
July 14th, 2007 at 9:40 amAll Bush has to do is admit mistakes made, apologize, and then bring the troops home. But he won’t do that. His ego is more important to him that what is right. That is the sociopathic definition of a true megalomanic… An internecene ability to admit failure…
IMPEACHMENT!
July 14th, 2007 at 9:42 amIn the last entry, Bush said “… to build a free nation that respects the rights of its people…”.
Candidate Bush in Nov 2000 (re: Clinton in Somalia) said. “”Let me tell you what else I’m worried about: I’m worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our view of the military is for our military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place.”
Nation-building is now our mission in Iraq… go figure.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:43 amThe primary mission is a war of cvilizations to address Islamic terrorism without actually addressing the causes of Islamic terrorism.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:45 amThe real purpose of invading Iraq:
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE
July 14th, 2007 at 9:46 amhttp://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07071305.html
Senate Democrats Sneak “Hate Crimes” Bill into Crucial Defense Bill
WASHINGTON, D.C., July 13, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Senate Democrats will hold US troops fighting the “War on Terror” as hostages in exchange for sweeping “hate crimes” legislation if the Senate votes this week, perhaps as early as Monday, to include it in the defense spending bill.
Instead of introducing the legislation giving sexual orientation “hate crimes” protection as a separate bill, Senators Ted Kennedy (D-MA) and Gordon Smith (R-OR) opted to introduce the “Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act” as one of hundreds of amendments to the Defense Reauthorization bill requested by President Bush.
What lousy idiots!
July 14th, 2007 at 9:47 amWhat happened to my posts?
July 14th, 2007 at 9:48 amAll Bush has to do is admit mistakes made, apologize, and then bring the troops home. But he won’t do that. His ego is more important to him that what is right. That is the sociopathic definition of a true megalomanic… An internecene ability to admit failure…
IMPEACHMENT!
Comment by unbelievable — July 14, 2007 @ 9:42 am
July 14th, 2007 at 9:49 amThe first Bush-Gore debate (Oct 3 2000):
MODERATOR: New question. How would you go about as president deciding when it was in the national interest to use U.S. force, generally?
BUSH: Well, if it’s in our vital national interest, and that means whether our territory is threatened or people could be harmed, whether or not the alliances are — our defense alliances are threatened, whether or not our friends in the Middle East are threatened. That would be a time to seriously consider the use of force. Secondly, whether or not the mission was clear. Whether or not it was a clear understanding as to what the mission would be. Thirdly, whether or not we were prepared and trained to win. Whether or not our forces were of high morale and high standing and well-equipped. And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy. I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don’t think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we’ve got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. So I would take my responsibility seriously. And it starts with making sure we rebuild our military power. Morale in today’s military is too low. We’re having trouble meeting recruiting goals. We met the goals this year, but in the previous years we have not met recruiting goals. Some of our troops are not well-equipped. I believe we’re overextended in too many places. And therefore I want to rebuild the military power. It starts with a billion dollar pay raise for the men and women who wear the uniform. A billion dollars more than the president recently signed into law. It’s to make sure our troops are well-housed and well-equipped. Bonus plans to keep some of our high-skilled folks in the services and a commander in chief that sets the mission to fight and win war and prevent war from happening in the first place.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:49 amM12, that appears to be a bi-partisan effort. Please don’t lie, even though that is what we expect fro TP Bush-trolls.
-GSD
July 14th, 2007 at 9:50 amGSD @ 11
Lies and smears are all they have left. In fact it’s all they’ve ever had.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:52 amThe end is near. Sinners, repent your evil ways and repudiate the knuckleheaded King. His own words condemn him. And nothing you say could defend him.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:53 amImpeach!
Convict!
Imprison!
Comment by GSD — July 14, 2007 @ 9:50 am
Are you referring to Mr. Gordon Smith? Because he’s a slimy RINO!
July 14th, 2007 at 9:54 amThe “mission” is the same mission as it was in Vietnam. Make money for corporate America. And we have definately succeeded.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:55 amHe’s quite the missionary. I always figured Iraq was a faith-based initiative.
Comment by Just Me — July 14, 2007 @ 9:36 am
More of a Humanitarian based initiative. How were we to know that unlike the people in Afganistan many of the people of Iraq did not have the balls to stand up for themselves against islamofascism?
July 14th, 2007 at 9:57 amfrom the WH web site transcript of bush’s speech at the Naval College on 6/28/07 (link above):
“And this new strategy is different from the one were pursuing before”
Even his transcripts have errors in them!
July 14th, 2007 at 9:59 amThe primary mission is a war of cvilizations to address Islamic terrorism without actually addressing the causes of Islamic terrorism.
Comment by LandSurveyor — July 14, 2007 @ 9:45 am
Which is of course ISLAM.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:59 amBut, far more importantly than that is the fact that he once again tied 9/11 to Iraq:
“Now we’re in a new and unprecedented war against violent Islamic extremists. This is an ideological conflict we face against murderers and killers who try to impose their will. These are the people that attacked us on September the 11th and killed nearly 3,000 people. The stakes are high, and once again, we have had to change our strategic thinking.
The major battleground in this war is Iraq.”
July 14th, 2007 at 10:00 amThe vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. So I would take my responsibility seriously.
Comment by Buford — July 14, 2007 @ 9:49 am
Thanks Buford. The trolls have to change the subject now because there is no defending the boob in charge. I just read an article which includes this:
If you’ve got any political antennae at all, any sensitivity to the moods and trends of American politics, you can’t help but conclude that it is all collapsing fast, and with it as well many of the multiple enablers who have assisted in bringing us this ugliest of disasters these last years. It’s all coming apart now, bursting its tawdry seams, and doing so not only with a tremendous rapidity, but with even a tremendous increase in the rate of rapidity.
http://www.regressiveantidote.net/Articles/In_The_Last_Throes,_Judiciously.html
July 14th, 2007 at 10:00 amI’m tired of hearing each new disgrace and over reach of this cabal BushCo. It’s time to stop this oooing and ahhhing…..way past time each time a new outrage appears.. It’s time to restore our country
IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:01 amThat’s a great listing of the problems everyone has with this occupation… what was the reason for it? What is the reason for it now? It keeps changing!
What I’d like to see a list like this of “who is our enemy”. It seems to me that it has morphed as often as the reasons for the war. It’s gone from Saddam to Republican Guard to Baathists, to insurgents. Then it was al-Qaeda, then al Qaeda types, then “Saddamists”. Then it was Islamo-fascists. I mean, I’m missing quite a few, but it has changed every few months. At the moment, I have no idea who our “enemy” is in Iraq. Apparently, it’s regular Iraqis. Congress seems to think it’s Iran. Bush says it’s al Qaeda, the “same crowd” who attacked us on 9/11. What nonsense.
So like our “mission” our “enemy” changes just as often. You know what that means. … we will never leave. How can we? Whatever it is that’s out there that we need to fight will always be out there because it’s always changing.
We need to end this. We need to organize and end this ASAP. This isn’t an debating exercise anymore, people are dying for nothing.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:02 amGreat post. I just wanted to share the Webster definition of “mission creep” that I found on the web and the eerily prescient example that Webster provided.
Webster’s New Millenniumâ„¢ Dictionary of English – Cite This Source Main Entry: mission creep
Part of Speech: n
Definition: the gradual process by which a campaign or mission’s objectives change over time, esp. with undesirable consequences
Example: The only way to explain our involvement in Iraq is mission creep.
Webster’s New Millenniumâ„¢ Dictionary of English, Preview Edition (v 0.9.7)
Copyright © 2003-2007 Lexico Publishing Group, LLC
I can think of another type of mission creep. His name is Bush.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:03 amMission creep long ago turned into mission gallop.
Hold your horses, Mr. Bush.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:04 am“However, I think we ought to put the challenge into perspective. In a democracy, the head of government just can’t decree the outcome. (Laughter.) I’m not saying that’s what I’d like to do. (Laughter.)”
bs
July 14th, 2007 at 10:05 amGive it up trolls. Look at this history of lies and distortions, and ask yourself if you really support the neocon cabal that runs the White House. Bush admitted, by his speech quoted above by Buford, that Dick Cheney is in charge.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:05 amDarth Cheneys’ lies are more numerous and more serious.
You cannot defend them, so go elsewhere trollmonkeys, your droppings just add to the stench emanating from the myriad lies wafting from the orifice in chief.
“islamofascism”
Would someone, other than a troll, please explain this word to me. It makes no sense.
The last poll in Iraq showed that something like 72% of the people in Iraq want us to leave and feel that our being there is making them less safer.
The last poll in America showed that something like 72% of the people in the United States want us to get out of Iraq and feel that the Iraq war has not made us safer.
Bush wants us to stay, Maliki wants us to stay, end of story. So much for democracy.
democracy:
July 14th, 2007 at 10:06 amgovernment by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
The primary mission is a war of cvilizations to address Islamic terrorism without actually addressing the causes of Islamic terrorism.
Comment by LandSurveyor
NIce comedy.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:06 amAll of my posts have disappeared…
What is going on around here?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:07 am“the Iraqis are beginning to understand that al Qaeda is the main enemy for Shia, Sunni, and Kurds alike. Al Qaeda is responsible for the most sensational killings in Iraq. They’re responsible for the sensational killing on U.S. soil, and they’re responsible for the sensational killings in Iraq.”
So…the goal in Iraq was to draw AQ into Iraq? Is that it?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:09 amThe enemy is 300 to 400 “Dead Enders”.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:09 amThe trolls have to change the subject now because there is no defending the boob in charge.
Comment by funky p — July 14, 2007 @ 10:00 am
No funky pee
You simplywant everyone here to regurgitate your talking points and agree with TPs agenda.
You libs are as simplistic, partisian and blind as you seem to think the conservatives are.
The President has screwed up his management of this war and may be a boob. But that does not negate the role the Dems played in getting us their and funding it.
You also do not want to face the reality of islamofascism or the implications of withdrawl.
Fine get the lame Dems to have some balls and not fund so as to force withdrawl if thats what you think is best. But get ready for the slaughter and the political fall out from it.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:10 amThe congress is a year or more behind the American people, and we need to wake them up at a faster rate. Write or call your representatives, and tell them what you think.
Trolls, you can try this too, but if you speak like you write, prepare for incomprehension of your remarks.
Support the Kucinich resolution to impeach Cheney. Bush is next. Write or call your reps and tell them what you want them to do. They will listen if enough of you call. You have something they want; your vote.
The most obvious signs of implosion, of course, are the Republicans in Congress who, one after another, are now ditching the president with sunrise-like regularity. It seemed like there was hardly a day this week when one or two more didn’t abandon the sinking ship of Bush’s Iraq catastrophe. Or should we say that you are “cutting and runningâ€, my dear GOP friends? Should we now question your patriotism? Should we note that many of you are up for reelection next year and, having seen what happened last go-round, are now “playing politics with national securityâ€?
http://www.regressiveantidote.net/Articles/In_The_Last_Throes,_Judiciously.html
July 14th, 2007 at 10:11 amActually the mission was always secure the Iraqi oil for Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, BP…..executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney’s energy task force in 2001 ….CHENEY ENERGY TASK FORCE DOCUMENTS FEATURE MAP OF IRAQI OILFIELDS Commerce & State Department Reports to Task Force Detail Oilfield & Gas Projects…Vice President Cheney urged the Supreme Court to block his adversaries from getting documents revealing the workings of the energy task force…and they caved once again !
July 14th, 2007 at 10:12 amOUR MISSION — Impeachment – Bush and Cheney! How many more dead till Republicans will decide to stop the WAR and help us stop Bush
July 14th, 2007 at 10:12 amFine get the lame Dems to have some balls and not fund so as to force withdrawl if thats what you think is best. But get ready for the slaughter and the political fall out from it.
Comment by Troll — July 14, 2007 @ 10:10 am
This would pretty much put the last nail in the republican coffin. The republican party would cease to exist, would have most likely have to reform as the crazy ass right party or something.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:14 amNo.
The mission has not changed. We set out to take down Saddam’s evil regime in order to bring Capitalism and Democracy to the Middle East. This will allow us to exploit the Iraqi oil reserves with our friends the Saudis, while at the same time short-changing the Iraqi people.
Thus far we have killed Saddam, and we are well on our way to a full success!!!
As Sage William Kristol says:
We should be happy!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:15 amComment by Krazny — July 14, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Not if its the Dems who force us to withdrawl.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:16 amHehehehe, poor Troll. So alone in his delusional world.
Some day you will catch OBL with your GI joe dolls.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:16 amThe original mission in Iraq was to get into Iraq. The continuing mission is to stay in Iraq.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:17 amOh Juan you are sooooo funny.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:17 amIt’s hard to believe that, just a few years ago, George W. Bush was The Perfect Conservative.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:18 amThe original mission in Iraq was to get into Iraq. The continuing mission is to stay in Iraq.
Comment by Ellen — July 14, 2007 @ 10:17 am
——————————————————————
Exactly!!!
Plus, kill Islamo-Marxists!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:18 amIslamo-MARXISTS? Groucho or Chico?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:20 am“Now, we’re not doing a very good job with the propaganda battle around the world. We created it, and we’re losing. And that’s one thing we’ve got to spend a lot of time on,”
Hmmmm. We created it and we’re losing eh?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:20 amBush wants us to stay, Maliki wants us to stay, end of story. So much for democracy.
Comment by Katie — July 14, 2007 @ 10:06 am
Maliki in Iraq is like Bush here; not too popular, and headed down.
We support the Maliki gov’t but did you know that the Maliki govt. is Shia. Like the Iranian majority. When we give these guys military
support, it’s like arming our enemies (we have done that with Iraq/Iran throughout our history.)
Ialamofascism: the conflating of two unrelated words to form a cloud of fear in an unthoughtful persons reasoning.
From Funky’s dictionary.
The President has screwed up his management of this war and may be a boob. But that does not negate the role the Dems played in getting us their and funding it.
You also do not want to face the reality of islamofascism or the implications of withdrawl.
Fine get the lame Dems to have some balls and not fund so as to force withdrawl if thats what you think is best. But get ready for the slaughter and the political fall out from it.
Comment by Troll — July 14, 2007 @ 10:10 am
You think that because I knock the christofascist in Chief that means I absolve the Democrats? Oh mind of little reasoning, they are culpable as well, now how does that make Bush look any better. Yes the democrats are pussies, but remember how they were looked upon earlier when they voiced their opposition to the war. They were called traitors. That’s right, if you opposed the Iraq war, you were siding with the terrorists. and the media played along, regurgitating Bushs’ talking points.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:22 amLooking across to the other side of the aisle, one could certainly be equally amazed at the ‘leaders’ of the majority party in Congress, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. If anyone could possibly be more ineffective at the job of opposing a reckless, dangerous and now publicly despised president, it is hard to figure how. Perhaps if they were to send Dick Cheney a dozen roses and asked him please to end the war he might feel more pressure than he has since January, when the Democrats gained control of Congress. It’s hard to know which would be more intense.
http://www.regressiveantidote.net/Articles/In_The_Last_Throes,_Judiciously.htm
l
Yes, by staying we are preventing the slaughter there. Right.
Up is down, good is evil black is white, and bush is right.
Oh! You must be the GOOD Mr. President, not his evil twin, Dippy.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:23 amSix months before Bush invaded Iraq, Al Gore said that a pre-emptive war on Iraq would increase the number of terrorists, undercut US influence in the region, and diminish US legitimacy in the world affairs.
George Bush said that his war on Iraq would last “weeks, not months,” Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the war, and a tide of Democracy would sweep through the Middle East.
Al Gore was 100% right. George Bush was 100% wrong.
Rightwingers don’t have what it takes to win a war: regular contact with reality. They live in Fantasyland.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:23 amConsidering that the ‘mission’ changes every other week . .
It shouldn’t be very long before he fully admits that he and his administration lied our country into this invasion.
Then he’ll just follow that by saying that if they had it to do over again, they would do nothing different, because in their opinion, ‘it was the right thing to do’.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:26 amNext comes all of the msm and their highly valued sh$t spitters saying that they all agree, and then . . . end of story, on to what’s happening with the runaway bride.
Rightwingers don’t have what it takes to win a war: regular contact with reality. They live in Fantasyland.
Comment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 10:23 am
True. True.
Let me back that up with a quote from Suskinds’s book,quoting an unnamed source, but believed to be Karl Rove:
The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality‑based community,†which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.†I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,†he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.â€
July 14th, 2007 at 10:28 am“But that does not negate the role the Dems played in getting us their and funding it.”
Sorry, kid, but this is a Republican war all the way — you’re stuck with it and you’re stuck with both the practical and the political consequences of it.
“You also do not want to face the reality of islamofascism”
Since that is a completely meaningless term, there is no “reality” there. There simply is no unified “islamofascist” group of any significance anywhere. It’s a buzzword that serves to hide and obscure matters, not clarify them. Iraq is a classic example — if you claim that we’re fighting “islamofascists” there, we’re just going to laugh at you, since the reality is far more complicated than that.
“or the implications of withdrawl.”
Just as you cannot face the implications of remaining. What will happen when we withdraw is unknowable. What is happening now is not.
“Fine get the lame Dems to have some balls and not fund so as to force withdrawl if thats what you think is best.”
It’s happening. Each time this vote is taken, more Republicans are joining. They’re not entirely stupid.
“But get ready for the slaughter”
As compared to what we have now?
“and the political fall out from it.”
Since the large majority of Americans want the troops to come home, I rather doubt that there will be much political fallout, anymore than there was when we came home from Vietnam.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:30 amBAGHDAD -
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave “any time they want,” though he acknowledged the forces need further weapons and training.
[...]
Al-Maliki said difficulty in enacting the measures was “natural” given Iraq’s turmoil.
But one of his top aides, Hassan al-Suneid, rankled at the assessment, saying the U.S. was treating Iraq like “an experiment in an American laboratory.” He sharply criticised the U.S. military, saying it was committing human rights violations, embarassing the Iraqi government with its tactics and cooperating with “gangs of killers” in its campaign against al-Qaida in Iraq.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:32 amArthur C and PaulB
July 14th, 2007 at 10:35 amKeep speaking the truth, there is nothing better to cleanse the vermin than to shine the light of truth. Scurry back in your holes, trolls, this is another battle you have lost to reason.
I was at a social gathering last night and the consensus was that there will be violence and a power struggle no matter when we leave Iraq so we might as well get it over with and bring the troops home now! Nobody thought that staying any longer will help anything.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amis it Impeachment, yet?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amComment by bogtrotters — July 14, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Zeppo
July 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amthe real mission, of course, is to allow Bush to pass this mess off to his successor.
Mission (nearly) Accomplished!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:38 amActually the mission was always secure the Iraqi oil for Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, BP…..executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney’s energy task force in 2001 …
Oh? If the objective was to secure the Iraqi oil, why are way paying so much for our gas now? Try to use your head and get a life.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:40 amfor the trolls:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19760628/
July 14th, 2007 at 10:41 amSo when does the revolution start ? We the people should be storming Washington, cleansing and purging it of its vile corruption with flag in hand not unlike Iwo Jima, to pierce the sacred ground. A dream of a real Mission accomplished!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:43 amI was at a social gathering last night and the consensus was that there will be violence and a power struggle no matter when we leave Iraq so we might as well get it over with and bring the troops home now! Nobody thought that staying any longer will help anything.
Comment by margaret — July 14, 2007 @ 10:36 am
—————————————————————————-
REALLY!!!!?!?!?!?!
Well in that case…
GET THE PRESIDENT ON THE PHONE, PRONTO!!!!!!!!!!!!
CALL IT OFF! LET’S SURRENDER TO THE MARXIST-MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:43 am#57: He’s just posturing for the domestic audience. He knows perfectly well that our troops leaving will result in a full-scale massacre and he’ll be one of the first to be hanged.
It’s scary how you liberals consistently think that America can never do anything right.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:44 amIraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
July 14th, 2007 at 10:45 amComment by joe cantwell — July 14, 2007 @ 10:41 am
Comment by Fan_of_Man — July 14, 2007 @ 10:45 am
I don’t think you quite understand…
WE decide when we leave!!!!
If we were going to leave things up to the Iraqis, why would we have invaded in the first place?
July 14th, 2007 at 10:47 amIt’s scary how you liberals consistently think that America can never do anything right.
Don’t try to put words in my mouth, you useless turd. It’s Bush and his minions who are incompetent. America can do plenty right. For example, in less time than we’ve been at war in Iraq, FDR had defeated Japan, fascist Italy, and the Nazis.
Bush can’t even defeat a third-world nation half the size of Texas. What a useless piece of shit.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:50 amGoals can evolve and change with time, it’s perfectly normal.
GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:50 amJason Baddo says Tim McVeigh is the only true American Hero and the kids he murdered were collateral damage.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:52 am#63: Then why do you liberals keep rationalizing terrorists’ agenda (”Oh, they’re attacking us because we’ve pissed them off”) instead of acknowledging that the reason why they hate us is that we refuse to submit to them as their religion expects us to do.
We would have already won if the libturds didn’t fight the war effort at every step, but constraining the scale of operations and methods employed. Just look what happened with the terrorist interrogation program.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:53 amFor Sergeant Westphal, that night was a turning point. “I just remember thinking to myself, I just brought terror to someone else under the American flag, and that’s just not what I joined the Army to do,” he said.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/2
July 14th, 2007 at 10:53 amBush can’t even defeat a third-world nation half the size of Texas. What a useless piece of shit.
Comment by Arthur C
well, thats because of two reasons:
1) US is not fighting Iraq. It is occupating Iraq
2) US does NOT want to defeat anybody. The present situation is just fine.
And just to put some balance: Russians defeated the Nazis.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:53 amOh? If the objective was to secure the Iraqi oil, why are way paying so much for our gas now? Try to use your head and get a life.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Seriously, do you need someone to spell it out for you?
That oil that costs oil companies about $4 a barrel. Oil was under $30 a barrel when Bush got in, it’s now $70 a barrel, but costs the oil companies the same. Do the math junior.
Special note; Iraq pumps 2-3 million barrels a day, but no one knows for sure because it’s the only oil-producing nation without meters on the wells.
It’s scary how you liberals consistently think that America can never do anything right.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:44 am
July 14th, 2007 at 10:54 amNon liberals too ;>)
You might want to enlighten us by listing what GW got right. We’ll give you some time to google for that, but it’s unlikely you’ll find anything.
America is not wron…its’ leaders are!
Bush keeps Lying!
July 14th, 2007 at 10:55 amBushco’s mission all along was to steal Iraq Oil, make George “i’m not the idiot my dad thinks i am’ Bush feel like a man, and to bring Starbucks to the Iraqi people.
“Specialist Chrystal said that he and his platoon leader shared a joke of their own: Every time he raided a house, he would radio in and say, “This is, you know, Thirty-One Lima. Yeah, I found the weapons of mass destruction in here.” “
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/3
July 14th, 2007 at 10:56 am***************!!!!!!!!CONSPIRACY!!!!!!****************
July 14th, 2007 at 10:57 am” Sergeant Bruhns facetiously suggested they pull an M-2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle up to the house and shoot a missile through the front window to exterminate the enemy fighters his commanders claimed were inside. They instead diminished the aggressiveness of the raid. As Sergeant Bruhns ran security out front, his fellow soldiers smashed the windows and kicked down the doors to find “a few little kids, a woman and an old man.” “
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/3
July 14th, 2007 at 10:59 am(â€Oh, they’re attacking us because we’ve pissed them offâ€) instead of acknowledging that the reason why they hate us is that we refuse to submit to them as their religion expects us to do.
We would have already won if the libturds didn’t fight the war effort at every step, but constraining the scale of operations and methods employed. Just look what happened with the terrorist interrogation program.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:53 am
We (meaning you) have no idea what winning looks like. Explain to us, learned one, what victory will look like.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:59 amA little reading on the history of western involvement in the middle east, especially just after WWI when Great Britain formed Iraq, would maybe help you understand why they are not that happy with our solutions for their problems.
Our solution could be summed up by what George Bush said BEFORE while he was claiming to look for a diplomatic solution.
“Fcuk Saddam, we’re taking him out.”
#9 — leave i to He’s12 to link to a right-wing “news” site to try to derail the thread.
But, being the cuious progressive that i am, i checked it out. And I found THIS little gem from Right-Wing Rock Peggy Noonan in the WSJ Editorial page. It’s dated yesterday and titled “We can’t fire the president right now, so we’re waiting it out.”:
It’s been a slow week in a hot era. I found myself Thursday watching President Bush’s news conference and thinking about what it is about him, real or perceived, that makes people who used to smile at the mention of his name now grit their teeth. I mean what it is apart from the huge and obvious issues on which they might disagree with him.
I’m not referring to what used to be called Bush Derangement Syndrome. That phrase suggested that to passionately dislike the president was to be somewhat unhinged. No one thinks that anymore. I received an email before the news conference from as rock-ribbed a Republican as you can find, a Georgia woman (middle-aged, entrepreneurial) who’d previously supported him. She said she’d had it. “I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth.” I was startled by her vehemence only because she is, as I said, rock-ribbed. Her email reminded me of another, one a friend received some months ago: “I took the W off my car today,” it said on the subject line. It sounded like a country western song, like a great lament.
(Emphasis mine)
What was that that just went rolling by? A wheel? This bus is in trouble, folks.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:59 amplease don’t feed the trolls.
July 14th, 2007 at 10:59 amStarbucks to the Iraqi people.
Comment by flex
and there it is
July 14th, 2007 at 11:00 am#62 you lose.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:01 amExplain to us, learned one, what victory will look like.
A stable, prosperous Iraq without the islamist elements or threat to Israel. Strong trade with US.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:02 amSome random thoughts:
If you all think this is all planning and scheming by “BushCo.”, here’s a conspiracy for you all to chew on for awhile: What if Dubya pulls the OBL “rabbit out of his hat” sometime, say, just before the November, ‘08 election? What if that was the plan all along? That should send shivers down your collective spines.
It’s good that all you Bush haters have places to vent your negativity and anger, but again, there will be no impeachment, no matter how loud you scream.
You folks ever study any history? From the comments concerning the evolving mission in Iraq, it would appear not. Check your WW2 history. Your Korean War history, your Viet Nam history. In WW2, our mission went from destroying our enemies, to rebuilding them as nations friendly to the United States. We’ve never left Korea. And we’ve always maintained a presence in Viet Nam, regardless of the “military pullout”.
The Iraq war is not about oil, but if it was, so what? Oil is something we need. If we don’t find and secure sources for oil, the oil is going to China, India, or another developing nation. And don’t think for a moment other countries won’t resort to military means to secure their sources.
Talk about “alternate” sources for energy all you want. So far, the quest for ethanol fuel has resulted in no lowering of gasoline prices, and now some folks are paying $5 a gallon for milk, purportedly because corn is now an extremely “hot” commodity due to competition from ethanol producers. So, you all have been screaming about “Big Oil”…when are ya’ all going to start howling about “Big Milk”?
If you don’t want us to fight globally for oil, then let’s open up our own oil reserves rather than locking them up under the guise of environmentalism. We’ve got oil all over the place. Offshore, ANWR, Utah shale, etc. China has oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico in places we aren’t allowed to drill, merely because China doesn’t have to follow U.S. law. Does that make sense to you? If so, you’ve got a “thinking problem”.
You all keep quoting this poll and that in order to justify your positions concerning disenchantment with President Bush, yet how many of you have ever been part of one of these polls? Be honest with yourselves, even if you aren’t honest here. I’ve never been polled by anyone other than the NRA or the Republican Party, and I’ve stated my opposition to Bush’s support of the last immigration bill. Just because I don’t like his policy there, doesn’t mean I don’t support Bush elsewhere. Regardless, if you read any of these polls, you will see that no matter how many questions are asked, if one question is answered with a negative towards President Bush, the entire poll is interpreted as a referendum on his entire Presidency. You all can continue to quote useless polls, and continue to fool yourselves, if you feel the need to justify yourselves, but the only polls that matter are the ones called elections. In case you havn’t heard, Bush isn’t running for anything anymore.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:02 amIraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
BAGHDAD – Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave “any time they want,” though he acknowledged the forces need further weapons and training.
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The embattled prime minister sought to show confidence at a time when congressional pressure is growing for a withdrawal and the Bush administration reported little progress had been made on the most vital of a series of political benchmarks it wants al-Maliki to carry out.
Al-Maliki said difficulty in enacting the measures was “natural” given Iraq’s turmoil.
But one of his top aides, Hassan al-Suneid, rankled at the assessment, saying the U.S. was treating Iraq like “an experiment in an American laboratory.” He sharply criticised the U.S. military, saying it was committing human rights violations, embarassing the Iraqi government with its tactics and cooperating with “gangs of killers” in its campaign against al-Qaida in Iraq.
Al-Suneid’s comments were a rare show of frustration toward the Americans from within al-Maliki’s inner circle as the prime minister struggles to overcome deep divisions between Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish members of his coalition and enact the American-drawn list of benchmarks.
In new violence in Baghdad on Saturday, a car bomb leveled a two-story apartment building, and a suicide bomber plowed his explosives-packed vehicle into a line of cars at a gas station. The two attacks killed at least eight people, police officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorize to release details of the attacks.
Thursday’s White House assessment of progress on the benchmarks fueled calls among congressional critics of the Iraqi policy for a change in strategy, including a withdrawal of American forces.
Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari warned earlier this week of civil war and the government’s collapse if the Americans leave. But al-Maliki told reporters Saturday, “We say in full confidence that we are able, God willing, to take the responsibility completely in running the security file if the international forces withdraw at any time they want.”
But he added that Iraqi forces are “still in need of more weapons and rehabilitation” to be ready in the case of a withdrawal.
On Friday, the Pentagon conceded that the Iraqi army has become more reliant on the U.S. military. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Peter Pace, said the number of Iraqi batallions able to operate on their own without U.S. support has dropped in recent months from 10 to six, though he said the fall was in part due to attrition from stepped-up offensives.
Al-Maliki told a Baghdad press conference that his government needs “time and effort” to enact the political reforms that Washington seeks — “particularly since the political process is facing security, economic and services pressures, as well as regional and international interference.”
“These difficulties can be read as a big success, not negative points, when they are viewed under the shadow of the big challenges,” he said.
In the White House strategy, beefed-up American forces have been waging intensified security crackdowns in Baghdad and areas to the north and south for nearly a month. The goal is to bring quiet to the capital while al-Maliki gives Sunni Arabs a greater role in the goverment and political process, lessening support for the insurgency.
But the benchmarks have been blocked by divisions among Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish leaders. In August, the parliament is taking a one month vacation — a shorter break than the usual two months, but still enough to anger some in Congress who say lawmakers should push through the measures.
Al-Suneid, a Shiite lawmaker close to al-Maliki, bristled at the pressure. He called Thursday’s report “objective,” but added, “this bothers us a lot that the situation looks as if it is an experiment in an American laboratory (judging) whether we succeed or fail.”
He also told The Associated Press that al-Maliki has problems with the top U.S. commander Gen. David Petraeus, who works along a “purely American vision.”
He criticized U.S. overtures to Sunni groups in Anbar and Diyala, encouraging former insurgents to join the fight against al-Qaida in Iraq. “These are gangs of killers,” he said.
“There are disagreements that the strategy that Petraeus is following might succeed in confronting al-Qaida in the early period but it will leave Iraq an armed nation, an armed society and militias,” said al-Suneid.
He said that the U.S. authorities have embarrassed al-Maliki’ government through acts such as constructing a wall around Baghdad’s Sunni neighborhood of Azamiyah and repeated raids on suspected Shiite militiamen in the capital’s eastern slum of Sadr City. He said the U.S. use of airstrikes to hit suspected insurgent positions also kills civilians.
“This embarrasses the government in front of its people,” he said, calling the civilian deaths a “human rights violation.”
FORWARD THIS STORY TO EVERY REP…. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:03 amJust look what happened with the terrorist interrogation program.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:53 am
Ah yes, torture. Oh wonderful torture, must they give you up too?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:03 amSo far, the quest for ethanol fuel
Plus the fact that biofuel is not self-sustaining. You will always need more fuel that what the crops produce. Hence, we’ll always need fossile fuels.
Solar and wind power isn’t even worth talking about. It doesn’t scale.
Fission would work, but the treehuggers have made it politically infeasible even here (Europe’s a lost cause anyway).
July 14th, 2007 at 11:04 am” “These guys were really throwing up,” he continued. “They were so sick and nervous. And sometimes, they were peeing on themselves. Can you imagine if people could just come into your house and take you in front of your family screaming? And if you actually were innocent but had no way to prove that? It would be a scary, scary thing.” Specialist Reppenhagen”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/4
July 14th, 2007 at 11:05 amComment by Fan_of_Man — July 14, 2007 @ 11:03 am
**yawn**
July 14th, 2007 at 11:06 am#79, you can quit sucking bush’s dick like it was life giving oxygen…. welcome back to 2007, have a nice coma?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:06 am#83, time for you mommy to lay you down for a nap since you are so sleepy, btw, does she know you sneak to get online?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:07 amThe mission has changed. At least us Democrats have not changed our defeatism.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:07 am“instead of acknowledging that the reason why they hate us is that we refuse to submit to them as their religion expects us to do.”
LOL… Well, mostly because that would be a pretty stupid thing to say, not to mention untrue.
“We would have already won if the libturds didn’t fight the war effort at every step”
Really? The Democrats have a) been in the minority for most of the conduct of this war, and b) have given President Bush literally everything he asked for. Can you point to a single initiative they blocked? A single weapons system that they did not fund? A single request for funds that was turned down? A single war initiative that was blocked or rejected? A single bit of Democratic/liberal strategy that was accepted and used by the Bush administration? And yet it’s our fault that the situation in Iraq is FUBAR? The mind boggles at such cluelessness.
“but constraining the scale of operations and methods employed.”
Really? And your evidence for this is, what, precisely?
“Just look what happened with the terrorist interrogation program.”
You mean the one that has no connection at all to anything happening in Iraq and is therefore irrelevant to the topic of this post? The one where we were torturing innocent people? The one that, according to the FBI, has been largely a waste of time and yielded no significant information? The one that has inflamed passions against us, significantly reduced world opinion of us, and has destroyed our credibility? The one that continues to this day, largely unchanged?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:07 amAl-Maliki wants us out because he knows our true agenda there and it’s never been WMD’s or democracy or human rights. Otherwise, we’d not be committing the “human rights violations” al-Maliki is referring to above (Post #80). I’d say that al-Maliki words indicate that he’s plotting a trial for Bush and Cheney with The Hague regarding the violation of human rights now. He knows that this will get our sticky fingers off their oil once and for all.
This is the most embarrassing news of all – that their government feels they can do better without us and essentially is booting us out. What a travesty after tanking our economy and killing almost 4,000 of our kids who will have to face the 130 degree heat while their Parliament has to go on vacation for a month because of the heat. This is the greatest debacle this country has EVER been involved in – bar none.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:08 amIf the objective was to secure the Iraqi oil, why are way paying so much for our gas now? Try to use your head and get a life.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:40 am
Um… perhaps because the mission was bungled by a bunch of incompetents who didn’t pay attention to people who knew their sh!t unles those people told them what they wanted to hear?
Oh, wait — I just caught your last line. Obviously you’re joking. Good one.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:09 am#88 good call!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:09 amMaybe Bush is taking his month off in August along with the Iraqi Parliament somewhere on the French Riviera?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:10 amA stable, prosperous Iraq without the islamist elements or threat to Israel. Strong trade with US.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:02 am
We had that BEFORE the invasion; well, there were trade sanctions but that just caused the death of 1/2 million children, so no harm done right?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:11 amYes, that was Clinton and Allbright said she was okay with that. That is disgusting, and even progressives must realize that. U.S. policy towards Iraq has always been duplicitous (look it up trolls) but the situation you describe as victory in Iraq is virtually what we had before the whores for war took over.
Iraq was a secular country, not Islamist…we let the “Islamists” in, but the Iraqis, as noted in posts above, are quite capable of kicking them out.
And if free elections give Shia control of Iraq (they really are Islamists) then we have an even bigger problem than saddam ever was.
Your guy screwed up. Royally. He has no credibility that any of his lame-brained plans will succeed.
Here’s the Bush motto.
If at first you don’t succeed, suck, suck again
what is more bullshit
a. the iraqis taking the month of Aug off cause its a little warm
b. our congress taking the month off cause they dont give a shit either
hmmm…..
July 14th, 2007 at 11:11 amFission would work, but the treehuggers have made it politically infeasible even here (Europe’s a lost cause anyway).
Comment by No-one in particular
Why our trolls dont have a clue about science?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:11 amWhy else would we be constructing a huge embassy over there if not to remain there and usurp their oil? Al-Maliki knows that drill and is calling us on it. That’s why there never was an exit strategy – because we’d never planned to exit and, instead, capture their oil wells and allow Big Oil to continue to feather their nests. Besides, a protracted engagement means mucho “war profiteering” for buddies of the Bush Cabal.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:11 am#93: In answer to your question: All of the Above! They’re both hideously incompetent groups of individuals.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:12 am“It’s scary how you liberals consistently think that America can never do anything right.”
It’s scary how you 25-percenters (and shrinking) ignore the fact that the Bush administration has consistently done everything wrong in Iraq.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:12 amAnd the only safe harbors in the city are manned by armed guards with barriers built and checkpoints at about every 6 feet! A total embarrassment on this country to even attempt to call this form of living “safe” by any stretch of the imagination.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:13 amWhy our trolls dont have a clue about science?
Ok. Show me a peer reviewed scientific study that shows that solar and wind power can scale up to power our society. Show me a scientific study that shows that growing and harvesting biofuel fields doesn’t require more fuel than what the fields produce. Show me a study that shows a cleaner, more sustainable and ecofriendly EXISTING energy source than fission.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:16 amPaul B: Right on the money! That’s why the trolls come here and attempt (operative word here) to hijack the threads. They can’t engage in realistic dialogue about fact so they attempt to obstruct the discussion at hand. They have nothing at all to spin into a positive for their Shrub In Chef so they attempt to contort and twist every point. They’re all Shapeshifters – all 25% and rapidly, vapidly decreasing number of this sorry lot of misanthropes and charlatans.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:16 am#78: victory will look like [...] Iraq without the islamist elements
Iraq without Muslims? What are you gonna do, murder 28 million people? And for what, to salvage Bush’s battered ego? Or for cheaper gas?
Another exterminationist fantasy oozes from the spit-flecked lips of another brain-damaged bootlicker.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:17 am#99 That thread appeared on July 7 – you know – the Live Earth Movement Day! Get your head out of your disgustingly putrid butt and get with the program. A week has elapsed while you laid in your cesspool of delusion.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:17 am#100: I couldn’t give a flying fsck about GWB. Keeping the power out of the hands of the liberals – that’s important – and given the fact that we live in a two-party system, my only option is to vote for GOP.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:18 am#103, see post 100 again…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:19 amNow back to the definition(s) of the Mission – what “mission”?? And after defining the ever-shapeshifting mission, then we must ask what does the word “win” mean? These questions have never adequately been answers by the morons running this government and still cannot be answered; ergo, the continuously convoluted, ever-changing, shapeshifting mission of El Diablito (small devil) and friends.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:20 amA stable, prosperous Iraq without the islamist elements or threat to Israel. Strong trade with US.
Comment by No-one in particular
Isnt that something like ethnic cleansing? Didnt you bomb Serbia for the same reasons?
Threat to Israel? You mean with all the nukes that Israel has? Yep.
Strong trade? So…we are getting somewhere. Let me remind you of this old General´s saying:
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
– Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC
Gee, the truth hurts.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:20 amLink
Iraqi PM: Iraqi Troops Ready to Take Over Security
By VOA News
14 July 2007
Iraq’s prime minister Saturday said Iraqi forces are ready to provide full security in the nation whenever U.S. troops leave.
Nouri al-Maliki told reporters that Iraq’s troops can assume complete responsibility for security at any time.
But unfortunately, we won’t be able to leave until the Iraqis sign over their oil to American companies.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:21 amKeeping the power out of the hands of the liberals – that’s important
This country was founded on liberal principles, dough-brain. If George Washington could be here, he’d kick your cowardly fat ass into the stone age, Goober.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:21 am#106: You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:21 am#104 That’s why these threads no longer attract people who desire serious discussion. I’ve noticed a rapid decline in bloggers here over the past few weeks and it will steadily decline unless/until TP gets a handle of these buffoons who spew their drivel without anything credible to add to any discussion of any kind.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:21 amOff to DKOS and C & L where the trolls are kept in line. Discussion sans trolls is definitely amped up noticeably.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:23 am#109: I see our idiot trolls are now quoting Stalin to back up their point of view. Their true colors are showing.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:23 amThe REAL mission in Iraq is about oil and establishing a permanent presence in the region (ergo, those massive bases they’ve been building). What Bush tells the country are an ongoing litany of subterfuges, which, of course, amount to lies. Iraq is an occupation that we can’t AFFORD to leave from.
They can’t come right out and say that the reason for going to war was oil and domination. It has nothing to do with exporting freedom or democracy. etc. It is laughable that anyone in this WH honestly holds such ideals.
It is simplistic and juvenile to think that the terrorists’ real aim is to forcefully convert us all to Islam (#66). Ridiculous and idiotic.
You do have to hand it to Bush and his neo-con handlers: he still has a good percentage of the public (what, 23%?) hoodwinked. These are the exceedingly thick-headed ones.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:24 am#110: So what, in your opinion, would have been credible on my part in this thread? Acknowledge that you liberals had it right, after all, and to say that I’ll vote for a Dem from now on? Is that what you want? An echo-chamber like DKos where you’ve got to tread along the party line very carefully and avoid everything that might be considered dissent so that you won’t get troll-rated and banned?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:24 amWhy our trolls dont have a clue about science?
Comment by Juan C — July 14, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Because they’re stupid.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:24 am#109, how does making omelets have anything to do with death and destruction and oil wars? dumbass….
July 14th, 2007 at 11:24 amYou can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Comment by No-one in particular —
Then dont cry mommy when you are being attacked.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:25 am“I couldn’t give a flying fsck about GWB.”
Dear heart, do try to keep up. You insisted that we think that America can never do anything right. That is not correct, of course; we think that George W. Bush can never do anything right, and we have the evidence to prove it — most notably in Iraq. Even though Bush (and the 25-percenters) would like us to believe that the two are one and the same, and that criticizing Bush is the same as criticizing America, the simple fact is that they are not.
“Keeping the power out of the hands of the liberals – that’s important”
LOL… As compared to keeping power in the hands of a party that elected, and continues to unreservedly support, the Bush administration, an administration that has demonstrated incompetence far beyond the level of any preceding administration? Uh-huh… sure…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:25 am#116: How old are you? Do you have a problem with understanding metaphors?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:26 amto build a free nation that respects the rights of its people, upholds the rule of law
Too bad Chimpy and his Cohorts in Crime can’t respecr the rights of the people in this country and uphold the Constitution and Bill of Rights in this country.
This is all bull s*hit.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:26 am“but constraining the scale of operations and methods employed.â€
Comment by No-one in particular
Bush did this by firing the generals who disagreed with him
but the only polls that matter are the ones called elections. In case you havn’t heard, Bush isn’t running for anything anymore.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 11:02 am
It matters come impeachment time. Write your reps.
The Iraq war is not about oil, but if it was, so what? Oil is something we need. If we don’t find and secure sources for oil, the oil is going to China, India, or another developing nation. And don’t think for a moment other countries won’t resort to military means to secure their sources.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:26 amComment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 11:02 am
We could solve the war problem and the global pollution problem by transitioning to renewable fuels. Ethanol from corn is not the solution, except for Monsanto and ADM; another example of corporatism getting their way. Solar energy, hydrogen fuel cells, wind energy, all are better options. The area of the country that you occupy has regional resources (Arizona has lots of sun) that we should be using. Typical short-sighted corporate America; we can not drill our way out of a petroleum shortage, we have to invent our way out. That $12 billion per week we are spending in Iraq could do a lot towards research of renewables. Our priorities are short-sighted and just wrong.
But, you think that killing to take resources that belong to another sovereign nation is okay, if it keeps China from getting it first? Congratulations, you are truly an acolyte of the neocon movement that is running this country. Problem is, they keep being wrong.
Here’s a scenario for you. Say we have a resource in Hawii that china wants, so they send in their armies and take Hawaii. That’s justified, from their point of view in your scenario.
As for history, read some because eternal control of the OIL was the British/U.S. plan from the get go.
“Acknowledge that you liberals had it right, after all, and to say that I’ll vote for a Dem from now on? Is that what you want?”
Nah, we’d settle for a reasonable amount of logic, reason, facts, and accuracy, all of which you are notably lacking.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:26 am#114: So what, in your opinion, would have been credible on my part in this thread?
A sustained, carefully reasoned arguement.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:27 am#119, we know you steal all your parrot talking points from bumper stickers… lets compare omelets to war…… or what about a baseball game….. throw that one out there dolt.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:27 am#122: Oh, you mean liberal logic, democratic reason, facts from DKos and accuracy of MoveOn? Sure.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:28 am“You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.”
Well, most of us, when we break eggs, actually want an omelette because we’re hungry, not because we just want to break eggs. And we usually get the eggs into the bowl, as compared to randomly tossing them against the wall and throwing them on the ground.
You’re right … it’s a good analogy.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:29 amBecause they’re stupid.
Comment by Zooey
Ya think? ;)
July 14th, 2007 at 11:29 am#119: How ignorant are you? Do you frequently quote Joseph Stalin to buttress your pro-GOP arguments? LOL!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:29 amOh, you mean liberal logic, democratic reason, facts from DKos and accuracy of MoveOn? Sure.
Comment by No-one in particular
Well, there were no WMDs…so you know. You are the stupid one.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:30 amThe mission is to create chaos in Irag until the provisional government signs over the oil…then we’ll bag it and the GOP will declare victory.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:30 amm12,
Why is one Dem and one Repub lousy idiots for introducing the hate crime legislation in the bill. The corrupted system is to blame as to why it has to work this way.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:31 amActually the mission was always secure the Iraqi oil for Exxon/Mobil [...]
…If the objective was to secure the Iraqi oil, why are way paying so much for our gas now?…
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:40 am
that’s funny… someone actually thought that the oil cos are in the business of lowering the price of gas… ha!
it’s about the CONTROL, no-one… the CONTROL of the flow,
control the prices… really…
and then there’s this one:
Strong trade with US.
yea, right… what are we going to trade with them -
burger flippers and bed makers?
the usa produces very little these days, don’t you know?
you’re funny…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:31 am#125: You could start with a list of the GOP’s successes, and a list of why, in your opinion, power must be kept in their corrupt, incompetent hands.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:32 amThen dont cry mommy when you are being attacked.
Comment by Juan C — July 14, 2007 @ 11:25 am
————————————————————————–
Why not?
As a result of natural selection, Americans have developed a strong sense of superiority. It is in our nature to fight back with excessive force, even over the smallest incidents.
Now, it seems that we are evolving again, the New American Century will be an aggressive one!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 am122: Oh, you mean liberal logic, democratic reason, facts from DKos and accuracy of MoveOn? Sure.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:28 am
I’m glad you agree. I think all conservatives should stop living in a fantasy world and come to your conclusion.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 am“Oh, you mean liberal logic, democratic reason, facts from DKos and accuracy of MoveOn? Sure.”
LOL… Nope. See, that’s your problem — you believe that there’s “liberal logic” and “democratic reason,” not to mention that “facts from DKos” aren’t actually facts. Out here in the real world, logic and reason don’t have a political bias, and bits of data are either facts or they are not, regardless of the source they come from.
Statements like, “We would have already won if the libturds didn’t fight the war effort at every step,” on the other hand, are what you provide, which is why we usually end up laughing at you. I’ll repeat my response to that bit of silliness:
Really? The Democrats have a) been in the minority for most of the conduct of this war, and b) have given President Bush literally everything he asked for. Can you point to a single initiative they blocked? A single weapons system that they did not fund? A single request for funds that was turned down? A single war initiative that was blocked or rejected? A single bit of Democratic/liberal strategy that was accepted and used by the Bush administration? And yet it’s our fault that the situation in Iraq is FUBAR? The mind boggles at such cluelessness.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 amh-e-g-e-m-o-n-y = neoCONs wet dream
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 amComment by Zooey — July 14, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Hi Zoo-Zoo,
Am I stupid?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 amThat last goal:
“to help the Iraqis make progress toward reconciliation”
sounds more than just a little like we’re refereeing a Civil War. But I know THAT can’t be true because they’ve insisted for months that that’s not what were doing over there.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 amYou people just don’t get it.
One of the reason why trolls are here is because you want to have your precious, little liberal echo chamber where you can preach to the choir and shake your head at the stupid middle America.
It’s your whole attitude. If you’ve seen the South Park episode about hybrids, you know exactly what I’m talking about. The really nailed it in that episode. Empty wine glasses and all.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 amAre we there yet ?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:33 am#129: Yes, that’s when you’ll see us start to stand down: when we’ve secured the oil. Problem is that the provisional government is close to non-functioning and may never make it off it’s feet.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:34 am#133, so you will evolve to walk without your knuckles bleeding? lol, doubt it.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:34 amYa think? ;)
Comment by Juan C
Yes. :)
July 14th, 2007 at 11:35 amAs a result of natural selection, Americans have developed a strong sense of superiority. It is in our nature to fight back with excessive force, even over the smallest incidents.
Now, it seems that we are evolving again, the New American Century will be an aggressive one!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 11:33 am
This is Nazi rhetoric.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:35 am#139. Oh, we get it, dumbass, we get it.
You came here to shit on the podium.
…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:36 am#144: Oh noes! Evil rhetorics! Ban him!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:37 amPeople, we’ve always been at war with Oceania. If our glorious leader says so, then that’s the way it is. Simple as 2+2=5! If you’re
July 14th, 2007 at 11:37 amComment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:33 am
**thumbs up**
Thanks!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:38 am– Gerald Broflovski
…a good citizen, that is…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:38 amEvil rhetorics! Ban him!
Comment by No-one in particular
She said Nazi, not Evil. Keep your relativistic moral lingo for non-political discussions.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:39 amThere is a 26% Bush Cult that will simply defy and deny any reason or logic. They will parrot obviously stupidly irrational talking points like: “better to fight them over there than over here”. I mean it is as thought there is a magic spell that prevents terrrorists from multi-tasking.
This Bush Cult 26% have invested their soggy, weak minds in a man who is so co-dependant on his political guru Karl Rove, that he’s willing to destroy the entire Republic Party in order to save himself.
Bush is the ultimate in ego and arrogance and as far away from humility as most humans could ever imagine
These Bush Cultists wll never believe otherwise. They are like Saddams’ followers or David Koresh followers. They are the ultimate sheep.
You would be better off debating a steaming pile of feces, it is less futile.
-GSD
July 14th, 2007 at 11:40 amAs a result of natural selection, Americans have developed…
Revealing a breathtaking ignorance of science, too.
Home-skooled, Jethro?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:40 amKids, don’t make me break out the Wookie defense
July 14th, 2007 at 11:40 amAm I stupid?
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:33 am
You are a racist; you are a bigot; you are immature; and you are wilfully stupid.
All of these things are in your control, and can be changed — if you so choose.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:41 amI couldn’t give a flying fsck about GWB
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Your golden idol is tarnished?
Oh, Jesus Christ; Liberal.
Gee, the truth hurts.
Comment by Juan C — July 14, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Bravo.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:21 am
Got to steal the eggs first!
So what, in your opinion, would have been credible on my part in this thread? Acknowledge that you liberals had it right, after all, and to say that I’ll vote for a Dem from now on? Is that what you want? An echo-chamber like DKos where you’ve got to tread along the party line very carefully and avoid everything that might be considered dissent so that you won’t get troll-rated and banned?
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:24 am
Stating facts that support your opinions would add to your current dearth of credibility.
Here’s your first post:
Actually the mission was always secure the Iraqi oil for Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, BP…..executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney’s energy task force in 2001 …
Oh? If the objective was to secure the Iraqi oil, why are way paying so much for our gas now? Try to use your head and get a life.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 10:40 am
July 14th, 2007 at 11:41 amThe same with subsequent posts. No facts, just dumb questions. This one is dumb, as I stated in reply above, because you show a basic inability to comprehend a simple fact. That fact being, if you “own” the rights to a resource, and you do something stupid that raises the price of that fixed cost commodity, you make much more money. It also assures that you will make that same mistake again and again, as you keep increasing your profit.
You answer questions for a change.
How much oil does Iraq pump?
Where does it go?
who gets the oil?
Who gets the profit?
Now run along son, you got some homework to do!
Actually the mission was to kill Saddam and his two sons.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:42 amNow the mission is to fix the mess that Bush made, by allowing al Queda to to locate in Iraq. Something Saddam would never allow.
.
The word “mission” is being used as a smokescreen for the real purpose behind the Cheney-Duhhbya debacle.
Early on, Duhhbya slipped and used the word describing his and Dick’s real purpose.
The word?
“Crusade”
.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:42 am“You people just don’t get it.”
LOL… Oh, we do, we do, which is why you’re protesting so much.
“One of the reason why trolls are here is because you want to have your precious, little liberal echo chamber where you can preach to the choir and shake your head at the stupid middle America.”
LOL… As compared to all of those conservative sites that either don’t allow comments or that ruthlessly prune those comments giving them … an echo chamber? In any case, what does our desire for an “echo chamber,” even if it’s true, have to do with you posting here? Are you saying that you are not responsible for our own actions? My, my…
“It’s your whole attitude.”
ROFL… And your “attitude” is better, because why, exactly?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:42 amComment by Nat — July 14, 2007 @ 11:35 am
JooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOoooOOOs
July 14th, 2007 at 11:42 am-Conspiracy MONITOR-
Zooey, every time you ignore me, my bum itches.
You’re not nice.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:44 amAll of these sad sacks that think Bush is making America stronger are so pathetic. Bombing random shit doesn’t make a nation stronger.
Russia has just pulled out of their arms treaty with Europe.
Pakistan is melting down into a civil war.
Iran is telling Bush to f-off and has just asked Japan to start buying oil with Yen instead of dollars.
Bush has rewarded North Korea with millions of dollars.
After Bush claimed that genocide wouldn’t happen on “my watch”, Darfur continues 4 years along.
Bush is so weak now the even the new UK Prime Minister is stiff arming Bush by having his ministers publicly chastise US policy.
Bush, making America weaker. Trolls, making America dumber.
-GSD
July 14th, 2007 at 11:45 amAnd your “attitude†is better, because why, exactly?
My current attitude only reflects yours.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am“she recalled. “There was then a little boy–I would say he was about 10 because we didn’t see the accident; we responded to it with the investigative team–a little Iraqi boy and he was crossing the highway with his, with three donkeys. A military convoy, transportation convoy driving north, hit him and the donkeys and killed all of them. When we got there, there were the dead donkeys and there was a little boy on the side of the road.
“We saw him there and, you know, we were upset because the convoy didn’t even stop,” she said. “They really, judging by the skid marks, they hardly even slowed down. But, I mean, that’s basically–basically, your order is that you never stop.”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/6
July 14th, 2007 at 11:46 amComment by Zooey — July 14, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Muslim immigration and illegal immigration is bad for our national security, that’s not racist.
Correctly do your part to save America.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:47 amMy current attitude only reflects yours.
Do we come to your forums and shit on the podium? How about an answer, instead of avoiding the question, ya whiny narcissistic turd.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:47 amand has anyone found out who got the contract (and the dollar amount for it) of moving and moving and moving those goal posts ??
July 14th, 2007 at 11:47 am#163: Why do you keep spamming this thread with these irrelevant, unconfirmed copy-paste texts that are designed to do nothing but to evoke emotions? Try some cold, hard logic, instead: people die in a war.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:47 am144: Oh noes! Evil rhetorics! Ban him!
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:37 am
Now why would anyone ban him? We still have Freedom of Speech in America so he is free to spew his Nazi-like views.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am-Conspiracy MONITOR-
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:42 am
——————————————————————–
CT_V1,
The funniest thing just happened to me on the FASCIST blog called:
“Crooks and Liars”
I don’t want to ruin the suprise for you, but if you go on there early in the morning before the site monitor wakes up, you can really get the truth out there to some of the more stuck up Leftists!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am“My current attitude only reflects yours.”
ROFL… So you don’t take responsibility for your own actions. Gee, and I thought that’s what Republicans are known for.
Oh, and dear heart? My attitude is that I’m anti-stupidity. Since your attitude is the opposite of mine, that makes you … well, we’ll just leave that as an exercise for the reader.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:48 amNo, it’s not racist. But it is bigoted.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:48 amYO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:48 am#2,
“He’s quite the missionary.” Yes, Bush is quite the missionary all right.
Just think of all these MISSIONARY POSITIONS. Bush must be quite inventive in bed!!!!!! I just wish Bush would add one new position in his bed:
MAKE YOUR BED AND L-I-E- IN IT. Lies! LIes! Lies!
One missionary position has not changed since day-one. That’s rewarding Bushie cronies with multimillion dollar contracts. What’s so ironic is that they’re having fun and games AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS BEING SCREWED.
I sure wish it were the other way around: HIS CRONIES WERE BEING SCREWED and the American public were having fun and games. That’s not in the cards, just like winning this war isn’t in the cards.
It would be so refreshing to hear another reason for the war: TO SAVE BUSH’S ASS.
We all know Bush is trying to save his ass. Not one person, except George W. Bush, thinks the surge will turn things around in only two-months. In the meantime, American soldiers will continue to fall. Does Bush really care?
I suppose Bush’s rationale is: What’s the difference between 3,361 deaths and 3,160 deaths? There’s a hell of a difference. Just think of the tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens, and tens of soldiers who’s fate is death between now and September, when the official military report is due.
Shame on you, George W. Bush.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:49 am#165: What “your forums”? I troll Free Republic, LGF and Red State to the best of my abilities, too. It’s not as much fun, though, because the drooling idiots ban you in an instant.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:49 am“Try some cold, hard logic, instead”
LOL… Oh, the irony…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:49 amblack gold, texas tea, saudi soda, kuwaiti kool-aid, alaskan antifreeze, venezuelan verve, washington’s whale oil.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:50 amDid anyone else catch Bill Moyers Journal last night? It was on Impeachment. It was a round table discussion with Bruce Fein and John Nichols (who wrote The Genius of Impeachment). It was really quite good.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:51 amhttp://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html
I saw the funniest thing the other day on FOX news. One lady referred to the Iraq war as the Iraq Intervention. My jaw almost hit the floor.
http://www.BeforeYouGoPostal.com
July 14th, 2007 at 11:51 am#163: Why do you keep spamming this thread with these irrelevant, unconfirmed copy-paste texts that are designed to do nothing but to evoke emotions? Try some cold, hard logic, instead: people die in a war.
Comment by No-one in particular — July 14, 2007 @ 11:47 am
I give up; you have not the slightest inkling of what you are talking about. South Park episodes?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:52 amHow about the one where people learn to crap out of their mouths?
Get it?
Comment by JG — July 14, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Yeah, I saw it on the FASCIST blog: “Crooks and Liars”
What a bunch of dweebs!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:53 amWell, just like when you debate a troll in here, the president keeps moving the goal posts.
But maybe this will convince Bush its time to get out of the region.
Russia suspends participation in treaty
By MARIA DANILOVA, Associated Press Writer
59 minutes ago
MOSCOW –
Russia on Saturday suspended its participation in a key European arms control treaty that governs deployment of troops on the continent, the Kremlin said, a move that threatened to further aggravate Moscow’s already tense relations with the West.
President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending Russia’s participation in the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty due to “extraordinary circumstances … which affect the security of the Russian Federation and require immediate measures,” the Kremlin said in a statement.
Putin has in the past threatened to freeze his country’s compliance with the treaty, accusing the United States and its NATO partners of undermining regional stability with U.S. plans for a missile defense system in former Soviet bloc countries in Eastern Europe.
Under the moratorium, Russia will halt inspections and verifications of its military sites by NATO countries and will no longer limit the number of its conventional weapons, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:53 amMuslim immigration and illegal immigration is bad for our national security, that’s not racist.
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:47 am
It’s bad for economic security. A lot of people used the national security reason because they’re bigots and you seem to be a bigot. I could be wrong though.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:53 amWhat’s up CT_V1?!?!?!?!
July 14th, 2007 at 11:54 amRemember I said if we don’t leave Iraq, Russia and China might help us leave?
Well this signing statement by Putin opens the door for just such a scenario.
It ends NATO inspection of Russian ground forces in the region, and permits Russia to do a quick, and massive military build up to meet with our forces.
Putin says its over the missle sheild, and while that is the straw the broke the Bears back, its clear our presence next door in Iraq, is driving the decision.
The time to leave Iraq, is now.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:54 amComment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Mr. President, the blog, I’ve heard, is so FASCIST that I couldn’t be bothered to take even a tour.
I like a good laugh, however, so do you know if these specific comments are still up?
——————————–CONPIRACY monitor————————————-
July 14th, 2007 at 11:54 am#151: It is a complete waste of time to try and have a reasonable argument with this 26% Bush Cult. They have their parroted talking points which they repeat endlessly without ever entertaining views that might get them out of the rut they keep running in. This group is not very smart or sophisticated: they’ve bought into just about everything that comes out of Bush’s mouth (Mangler in Chief!).
We’d all be getting more done if we went outside and cut the grass.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:55 amComment by Nat — July 14, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Since leftists overuse the ‘bigot’ and _______ist words excessively, how should your assessment make a lick of sense?
July 14th, 2007 at 11:56 amWe’d all be getting more done if we went outside and cut the grass.
Comment by W.Clements — July 14, 2007 @ 11:55 am
July 14th, 2007 at 11:57 amOn my way!
Muslim immigration and illegal immigration is bad for our national security, that’s not racist.
Correctly do your part to save America.
Comment by CT_V1
That’s your wilfull stupity.
I said nothing about illegal immigration, CT. This all about YOU.
Now I’m off to venture into the beautiful city of Portland — and life.
Try it sometime…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:58 amNOIP’s idea of “cold, hard logic”:
“It’s scary how you liberals consistently think that America can never do anything right.”
“We would have already won if the libturds didn’t fight the war effort at every step”
“Try to use your head and get a life.”
“Keeping the power out of the hands of the liberals – that’s important”
“My current attitude only reflects yours.”
“Oh noes! Evil rhetorics! Ban him!”
“you want to have your precious, little liberal echo chamber where you can preach to the choir and shake your head at the stupid middle America.”
“Oh, you mean liberal logic, democratic reason, facts from DKos and accuracy of MoveOn?”
LOL… Dunno about you guys, but I’m convinced. How could we not take him seriously with all of that “cold, hard logic” he’s posted?
July 14th, 2007 at 12:00 pmZooey, I suggest that you don’t talk “TO” the scumbags.
Talk “about them”, but not to them.
Last night, Mr. President here spammed a thread all night long with racial slurs against the African American community. TP apparently doesn’t have a problem with racial slurs, and let them stand. So my advice is, insult the bastards, but don’t talk to the bastards.
I’m done talking to them. I’ll talk to their mothers, when I see them working 13th and L, (as long as the cops aren’t around), but I won’t talk “TO” them.
I don’t talk to racist maggots.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:00 pmhow should your assessment make a lick of sense?
Posing a question that contains a questionable premise does not constitute a genuine counter-argument, junior. Try again.
F in Debate for you.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:00 pmlib·er·al (lÄb’É™r-É™l, lÄb’rÉ™l) pronunciation
adj.
1.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
2.
1. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
5.
1. Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
2. Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.
n.
1. A person with liberal ideas or opinions.
2. Liberal A member of a Liberal political party.
[Middle English, generous, from Old French, from Latin lÄ«berÄlis, from lÄ«ber, free.]
liberally lib’er·al·ly adv.
liberalness lib’er·al·ness n.
SYNONYMS liberal, bounteous, bountiful, freehanded, generous, handsome, munificent, openhanded. These adjectives mean willing or marked by a willingness to give unstintingly: a liberal backer of the arts; a bounteous feast; bountiful compliments; a freehanded host; a generous donation; a handsome offer; a munificent gift; fond and openhanded grandparents. See also synonyms at broad-minded.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:01 pmANTONYM stingy
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:54 am
You can see some of the responses but the FASCIST site monitor erased all my original posts. I go by the name “KONSERVO”:
He thought that #40 took me to task so well that he let them stand, but all the other’s he erased and wrote a little jackass one-liner, that is, until he realized how many people had responded, then he just repeat the same thing over and over again!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:01 pmHEyOOOoooooOOOOOooOOOOOOoooOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“KONSERVO”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/14/bill-moyers-roundtable-on-impeachment-of-bush-cheney/#comments
Since leftists overuse the ‘bigot’ and _______ist words excessively, how should your assessment make a lick of sense?
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:56 am
I just said you seem to be a bigot. I’m sure the U.S. is making sure that Muslims who comes into to this country do not espouse the views of someone like Bin Laden.
And I happen to live in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslims and I have absolutely no problem with it.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:02 pm“”Every good cop carries a throwaway,” said Hatcher, who served with the Fourth Cavalry Regiment, First Squadron, in Ad Dawar, halfway between Tikrit and Samarra, from February 2004 to March 2005. “If you kill someone and they’re unarmed, you just drop one on ‘em.” Those who survived such shootings then found themselves imprisoned as accused insurgents. “
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/7
July 14th, 2007 at 12:02 pmComment by Zooey — July 14, 2007 @ 11:58 am
M’kay, Zoo-Zoo.
Well, you have a scrumptious and splendid day.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:03 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
W
July 14th, 2007 at 12:05 pmWar against WHO???
The citizens of IRAQ????
What have they done to us again?
Should we kill every man, woman and child in Iraq?
Because thats what its gonna take to make them stop fighting us.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:06 pmComment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
A dumb assessment WITHIN a dumb assessment. Good job, UUhthur. Stalinist minds think alike.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:06 pmThe Prime Minister of Iraq has told us we can leave now.
We should honor his request, and leave.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:07 pmShould we kill every man, woman and child in Iraq?
You just made the trolls cream in their pajamas.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:07 pmIraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
BUSHRA JUHI
Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 13 minutes ago
BAGHDAD
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave “any time they want”.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:08 pm“”I come to find out later that, while I was treating him, the snipers had planted–after they had searched and found nothing–they had planted bomb-making materials on the guy because they didn’t want to be investigated for the shoot,” Sergeant Campbell said. (He showed The Nation a photograph of one sniper with a radio in his pocket that he later planted as evidence.) ”
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/hedges/7
July 14th, 2007 at 12:08 pm“This country was founded on liberal principles, dough-brain. If George Washington could be here, he’d kick your cowardly fat ass into the stone age, Goober.
Comment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 11:21 am”
Study your history, Arthur C. Read the words of the Classical Liberals. What George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle. The word “liberal” was long-ago hijacked into something the founders had no recognition of, and no tolerance for.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:09 pmYou just made the trolls cream in their pajamas.
Comment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Really?
Wow.
Usually it takes a photograph of a 6 year old boy in his underwear to do that.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:09 pm… And the downward spiral of the troll crusade continues…
they subtract from the value of the forum each thime they ejaculate on it, they have bizarre definitions for words like “fascist” and “logic” (at least, based on their usage they have bizarre definitions) and their shtick grows more tiresome by the day. I don’t know what they think they’re accomplishing, oter than amusing themselves at the expense of others — a right-wing pastime if there ever was one.
I have a feeling that before there was the internet, people like this lost themselves in comic books and one day got up the courage to actually send in for the Charles Atlas musclebuilding program.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:09 pmStalinist minds think alike.
Heh. It was yer troll buddy who unwittingly quoted Stalin as a role model earlier on this thread, snot-for-brains. #109 above.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:09 pmIRAQ PM says his country can do without the U. S. Well, they better. Come September 15th, after the “surge” report comes out and tells us the Iraqis have been on “August recess” while we fought for them, we start drawing down our troops!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/07/iraqs-pm-says-his-country-can-do.html#links
July 14th, 2007 at 12:10 pmJC,
Thanks for the Bill Moyers’ Web site.
Is that really a picture of Bruce Fein? This guy seldoms weighs over 110-pounds. I haven’t seen him for a while. Of course, I generally turn the television off. It appears he has a new body and hopefully a new brain.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:11 pmNOIP’s idea of “cold, hard logicâ€:
Comment by PaulB — July 14, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
PaulB, I’m shocked at your call for censorship.
Don’t you know that when you quote a wingnut’s words back to him, that is considered to be advocating censorship?
You are a fascist. Or a stalinist. You’re SOME buzzword, that’s for sure.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:12 pm“#79, you can quit sucking bush’s d*ck like it was life giving oxygen…. welcome back to 2007, have a nice coma?
Comment by Fan_of_Man — July 14, 2007 @ 11:06 am” (Edited for the children in the room)
Now there’s a statement that really ads to the debate! Does your mother know you talk like that? You sound like a 15 year old, and if you are, you are too ignorant to have an educated opinion about “grown up” subjects like this one (Just as I was at 15). Go back you your Playstation 3 and IPOD and let the adults talk, ‘K?
July 14th, 2007 at 12:13 pmNeoCons are a disease
July 14th, 2007 at 12:14 pmImpeachment is the Cure!
Comment by Mr. President
The idiots mouth off on this board over “right-wing censorship,” but I have never seen censorship of that magnitude on any commentary section.
May lefty stalinism die a painful death. It’s headed that way, thankfully.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:14 pmMission = To make $ for me and my buddies… it’s real… don’t be afraid of it and don’t be fooled…
July 14th, 2007 at 12:15 pmWhat George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
No. I think the founders would be disgusted by modern day conservatism.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:16 pmThis is officially one of the greates posts ever.
Kudos to whoever thought to simply get all of this info assembled!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:16 pmZooey, every time you ignore me, my bum itches.
You’re not nice.
Comment by CT_V1
________________________
That itch is due to attempting to pull logic out of your a**. You’re not worth Zooey’s responses.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:16 pmThe mission has always been the same – make money.
~Sean
July 14th, 2007 at 12:16 pmso how long more are Americans going to take the lies ?? Forever!! because you are so feckless!!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:17 pmComment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
CT, the FASCIST Lefties would do that in a second here too!!!!
Notice how they are only comfortable if everyone agrees with them 100%!!!!
No matter what you say, they will never listen to logic or facts, they have to go on believing that their fantasy world is real!!!
It’s said really, these fools would never last in VA!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:19 pmNow there’s a statement that really ads to the debate! Does your mother know you talk like that? You sound like a 15 year old, and if you are, you are too ignorant to have an educated opinion about “grown up†subjects like this one (Just as I was at 15). Go back you your Playstation 3 and IPOD and let the adults talk, ‘K?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
Stop whining and just continue debating.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:19 pmOnly a republican would continue to listen to Bush’s crap. Mindless idiots.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmHey what does John McCain’s Campaign Manager like to eat?
(thats a real question, not a joke)
SPLOOooooOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooOOOOge!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmWow, my comment was censored, but no profanity or anything.
Ok. One more time.
IRAQ PM says his country can do without the U. S. Well, they better. Come September 15th, after the “surge†report comes out and tells us the Iraqis have been on “August recess†while we fought for them, we start drawing down our troops!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/ 2007/ 07/ iraqs-pm-says-his-country-can-do.html#links
Comment by KYJurisDoctor — July 14, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
When are we going to stop blaming the Iraqi people for us steamrolling into their country like a Bull in a China Shop?
The Iraqi people have been bullied, bombed and blasted back to the stone age, and we’re complaining that they take a recess?
They didn’t ask us to come in an blow their country back to the stone age, and they didn’t do anything to us to deserve that.
WE’RE the BAD guys here.
NOT the Iraqi people.
WE are the BAD guys.
Get it?
When we figure that out then maybe we can get back to acting like Americans, and not brainwashed Nazi Storm Troopers.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmHeh. Real quick….
Some moron called “KONSERVO” got his ass booted from C&L —
I wonder which of our idiots it was. :D
My money is on Mr Pee.
Have a great day all!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmAddendum to my timeless and heart-rending commentary above:
I only recently learned that this business of “Oh, we could have WON the war… if only the PROTESTORS hadn’t TIED THE HANDS OF OUR MILITARY/PRESIDENT/GOVERNMENT (etc.)!” did not originate as I had always believed during the Viet Nam war.
Because if you’re above a certain age, you obviously remember how that decades-long immoral debacle was THIS CLOSE to being “won”… had it not been for those dirty rotten hippies (at least back then, the bulk of American society had enough brains to marginalize the wingnuts who spewed this crap. Obviously, we had not yet seen “Night Of The Living Dead”!).
Turns out this argument was first trotted-out, in reference to Germany’s defeat in World War I. And the guy trotting it out was none other than our ol’ paranoid buddy, Herr Schickelgruber, and his fabulous Nazi Party.
It was part of the propaganda effort that drummed-up the nationalism and patriotic fervor that caused a crippled Germany to ramp itself up into a pissed-off war machine, and practically end civilization as we know it.
Re-MINNNNND you of anyone? :-)
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmIs that all these rightwing trolls do? Jerk each other off in public? Yecch!
Get a room, you guys.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pm“”What George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
No. I think the founders would be disgusted by modern day conservatism.
Comment by Nat — July 14, 2007 @ 12:16 pm”
You are obviously another person who has never read or comprehended the words of the founders. You need to go back to school, my man!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:21 pmNext thing you know ‘the mission’ will have changed to freeing all Iraqi dogs and cats from oppressive animal shelters, which will then cause a majority of republicans to say “oh yes, we must save the pets!, that’s always been our mission!!”
July 14th, 2007 at 12:22 pmYeah, Mr. Preisdent. Sounds to me like the Republican Campaign Manager wanted to suck on some…
GOOooooOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooooOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:22 pmWhat George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle. The word “liberal†was long-ago hijacked into something the founders had no recognition of, and no tolerance for.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:09 pm
Since you and your ilk have demonstrated an absurdly cartoonish sense of “liberalism”, your analysis is hardly worth considering.
If, on the other hand, you had a real gasp of what Rousseau, Locke and Thomas Paine actually wrote, and what modern liberalism is about, then you wouldn’t have made such a stupid statement in the first place.
Next.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:22 pmNat is exactly right. Our founding fathers like Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin, would be appalled with the modern day conservative movement.
In fact, they’d probably raise an army to fight against it.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:23 pmActually, PLC, I think it is what medical professionals call a craniorectal impaction that is causing that bothersome itch.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:24 pmWhat did John McCain’s campaign manager say to the boyish cop?
(it’s a joke)
answer- “I’ll give you $20 to spluge in my mouthâ€
July 14th, 2007 at 12:24 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Re-MINNNNND you of anyone? :-)
Comment by Barry Champlain — July 14, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
————————————————————————-
Why do you want to embolden the enemy?
July 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
“If?”
willyloman c. 2007
July 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pm“I hope we shall… crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” –Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1816. FE 10:69
July 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pmsurge is a nice soft drink…
July 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pmComment by Barry Champlain
Talk Radio? nice
July 14th, 2007 at 12:27 pm“[The European nations] are nations of eternal war. All their energies are expended in the destruction of the labor, property and lives of their people. On our part, never had a people so favorable a chance of trying the opposite system, of peace and fraternity with mankind, and the direction of all our means and faculties to the purpose of improvement instead of destruction.” –Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1823. ME 15:436
July 14th, 2007 at 12:27 pmIt’s said really, these fools would never last in VA!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
VA is NOT for Islamo-lovers. If you’re an Islamo-lover living in VA, I’d advise you not to blow your cover.
I noticed how that “site-monitor,” was deleting your comments to make you look weaker, bolster other lefties’ weak responses, while even asserting his own half-witted comments.
VA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT FOR LEFTIES!!!!! STAY OUT!!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:28 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
“WE’RE the BAD guys here.
NOT the Iraqi people.
WE are the BAD guys.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 14, 2007 @ 12:21 pm”
And there you have defeatist, modern-day liberal/leftist ideology in a nutshell. I couldn’t have defined it better myself.
Sorry Bartlebee, but regardless of how you want to keep hammering on me being part of the 26%, thankfully, far less than 26% think as you do. However, folks who feel the way you do will always find places, such as this one, where you can feel empowered, even if the reality is that all this talk is of no consequence whatsoever.
And as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:29 pm“For we are opposed, around the world, by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarly on covert means for expanding it’s sphere of influence on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerillas by night instead of armies by day.” JFK 1961
July 14th, 2007 at 12:29 pmYou are obviously another person who has never read or comprehended the words of the founders. You need to go back to school, my man!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
No. You didn’t read the words of the founders. They would be ashamed of the wackos currently occupying the White House.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:30 pmCan someone explain to me why all of my on-topic posts early in the thread were removed, but the offensive trolls are allowed to remain?
Is TP trying to chase off everyone with a brain?
Well, if anyone can read this, I just registered over at Daily Kos as “the memory of Simone de Beauvoir”. If my valid posts are going to be eaten, while troll crap remains, I will start posting over there tomorrow.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:31 pmOk. Looks like there’s an internal investigation of my trolling practices. Until those issues are resolved, I will not post again.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:31 pmHey, what does a crack ho and the campaign manager for John McCain have in common?
(not a joke)
A mouth full of Police spluge.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:31 pmCan someone explain to me why all of my on-topic posts early in the thread were removed, but the offensive trolls are allowed to remain?
That is what has baffled me ever since I got on this blog. I have never, ever had one of my posts deleted. It’s just wacky.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:32 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Comment by Zooey — July 14, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
Zoeey’s opposes a world of “right-wing” censorship, etc.
Tha’ts because she wants the way cleared for a crazy left-wing dictatorship.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:33 pm“If we find our government in all its branches rushing headlong… into the arms of monarchy, if we find them violating our dearest rights, the trial by jury, the freedom of the press, the freedom of opinion, civil or religious, or opening on our peace of mind or personal safety the sluices of terrorism, if we see them raising standing armies, when the absence of all other danger points to these as the sole objects on which they are to be employed, then indeed let us withdraw and call the nation to its tents. But while our functionaries are wise, and honest, and vigilant, let us move compactly under their guidance, and we have nothing to fear. Things may here and there go a little wrong. It is not in their power to prevent it. But all will be right in the end, though not perhaps by the shortest means.” –Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1811. ME 13:29
July 14th, 2007 at 12:34 pmHey…I thought the Mission was “Accomplished”….
July 14th, 2007 at 12:34 pmSorry Bartlebee, but regardless of how you want to keep hammering on me being part of the 26%, thankfully, far less than 26% think as you do. However, folks who feel the way you do will always find places, such as this one, where you can feel empowered, even if the reality is that all this talk is of no consequence whatsoever.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
I disagree. The American people have seen the results of modern day conservatism and more and more people are starting to reject it everyday.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:34 pmErr: That’s because she wants the way cleared for a crazy left-wing dictatorship.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:34 pm“If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy
James Madison
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 14, 2007 @ 12:25 pm”
Where’s the tyranny? Where’s the oppresion? Let’s hear your evidence.
Fact is: You have no evidence. You are just as free to do and say what you want in the country as I am. Excersize your rights, Bartlebee, and you will see that life is pretty good in this great country as ours. If you don’t see that, then it’s the fault of your mental state, not the fault of the nation.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:36 pmAnd as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.
Comment by O. Bigmouth — July 14, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
The only thing you bring with you, is the stench of facism you inbred pig.
My fathers, and their fathers fought for this country in real wars, where despots like you and the nazi pigs who you helped put into power.
And when your kind is swinging from ropes, is when this country will be back on track.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:36 pmThat is what has baffled me ever since I got on this blog. I have never, ever had one of my posts deleted. It’s just wacky.
Comment by Future troll — July 14, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
I’ve been here for close to two years and it while it has happened sporatically to me and in cases, worse to others, it’s never been like this. I’ve been very loyal, have tolerated being harrassed by viscious trolls, and added to a lot of discussions, but even I have my limits, and I may just be there…
July 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pmAnd as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring as little reality as possible to the subject.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
I think this is what you meant to say.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:37 pmMr. President,
Remember? “Cheney’s funding is cut ferever, HAR HAR, and there’s no other vote besides 1 lamo-committee. It’s done, HAR HAR!!!!
Talk about a misinterpretation of the “Power of the purse.”
July 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pmWhy do you want to embolden the enemy?
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!
Now THIS is what I mean! Ol’ Ibrahim is sitting there, cleaning his weapon, saying to himself, “I wonder if I should just pack it all in, move to London, and study fashion design?”
All of a sudden, he opens his Sony VAIO laptop (where he got his internet connection, we’re not really sure, but go with me here; the Big Komedy Payoff is seconds away, kids!). There, he somehow manages to surf to Think Progress, where he spies a post by Barry Champlain, criticizing the Bush administration, which he happens to be fighting on his home turf.
“Great goat’s gonads! Some infidel over in the land of Satan AGREES with me about this Bush bastard! Now, all of a sudden, I feel a powerful surge (”surge”… get the irony, there, Mr. P???) that will enable me to kill yet more Americans! Strap that bomb on me, Nasreen, and point me to the G.I.’s! PRAISE ALLAH!”
Is that how it works, moron? Always wanted to know, really…
July 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pmWhere’s the tyranny? Where’s the oppresion? Let’s hear your evidence.
Comment by O. Bigass — July 14, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Wheres the tyranny you inbred hack?
Try starting in the murder of the Iraqi people in a war based on lies and deciet.
You know Iraq.
Its the place you’re too scared to go to.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pm“And as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot —
Oohh! Another conservative history buff! Well, bigmouth, can you point to a successful example of democracy ever being installed in a country which has never perviously known it? WWII examples aren’t accurate, so don’t bother trying to use them – I’ll only make you eat your words, if you try.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:40 pmFact is: You have no evidence. You are just as free to do and say what you want in the country as I am. Excersize your rights, Bartlebee, and you will see that life is pretty good in this great country as ours. If you don’t see that, then it’s the fault of your mental state, not the fault of the nation.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
There has been infringements on our civil liberties such as the illegal spying but the administration can’t go much further because of liberals and other like-minded people. If we all thought like you, we would be living under something similar to the current Chinese dictatorship.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:43 pm“If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy
James Madison
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 14, 2007 @ 12:25 pmâ€
Where’s the tyranny? Where’s the oppresion? Let’s hear your evidence.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Unless I’m reading Bartlebee’s post wrong, he simply posted a quote from one of the Founding Fathers.
What evidence do you require? A citation from a conservative historian’s biography of Madison, acknowledging that he wrote those words?
In the post you responded to, he didn’t make the claim that you imply he made, and so you’re arguing against a non-existent point. Some might call that a “strawman”.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:44 pm“And as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.â€
Har har. It was reality-challenged rightwingers who promised that the war on Iraq would last weeks, not months, Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the war, and a tide of Democracy would sweep through the Middle East.
Rightwingers don’t have what it takes to win a war: regular contact with reality. They live in Fantasyland.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:46 pmafter a short break, i return to read this:
Read the words of the Classical Liberals. What George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle. The word “liberal†was long-ago hijacked into something the founders had no recognition of, and no tolerance for.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
without having read past this post, i understand that i could be prolonging the suffering of a dreaded “troll”, but this one seems to bring up a more interesting take on things…
July 14th, 2007 at 12:48 pmi’d be interested to hear mr.bigfoot elaborate on that “factoid” above…
with sources and/or links, of course…
…
And as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
You mean like this one?: We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:51 pmAt the press conference, the Campaign Manger for John McCain was asked by a reporter: “What’s that on your lip?”
He replied; “Oh.sorry. Cop spluge”
July 14th, 2007 at 12:52 pmComment by Barry Champlain — July 14, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
No, this is how it works.
Ibrihim is in Paris, France. He is a doctor, engineer, or a owns his own business. He receives messages on one of his computers from his muslim buddies. One of his buddies sends him videos of Jihadi-mumbo-jumbo, another sends him transcripts from a speech given by some Islamo-nutcase in Sandistan or where ever the fuk.
Then he is told to find out how the blogosphere feels about the Muslim agenda and the evil Zi*onist-Crusader infidels whose leader is the USA. So old Ibrihim surfs the web for a while until he finds loony-toon Lefty sites (similar to TP!), the next thing you know…
willyloman is a regular!
July 14th, 2007 at 12:53 pmMISSION IMPOSSIBLE.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:53 pmComment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
I most certainly do remember CT!!!
But we shouldn’t rub it in…
we are better than that.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:56 pmwillyloman is a regular!
Comment by Mr. President
Hey! I’m a Doctor!
another sends him transcripts from a speech given by some Islamo-nutcase in Sandistan or where ever the fuk.
the Islamo-nutcase speech is JFK.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:56 pmFor Bush, one thing never changes in Iraq:
July 14th, 2007 at 12:57 pm“We’re Making Progress.”
How can any of you talk to these people after what they said to a Soldier yesterday? They took the name of his fallen friend and they ridiculed his service and his courage?
How can you talk to these “people”?
July 14th, 2007 at 12:58 pmWell, since the bigmouth hasn’t responded to my challenge, I will fill in the blanks for him. There is no precedent, and one would think that with such an unprecedented act as invading Iraq, those in charge would have made careful planning of paramount importance – something obviously lacking in the invasion of Iraq.
Another conservative “historian” afraid to admit the truth about Iraq.
July 14th, 2007 at 12:59 pmHow can you talk to these “people�
Talk about painting with a broad brush…
July 14th, 2007 at 1:00 pmLugar/Warner signaled the end of Bush and the Neocons running this war. This is very good news for our troops. It may take a few more months, and the troops will not come home immediately, but at least Bush has been very publicly reprimanded by the critical faction in the Republican party. They speak for the military and probably Gates too. Is it perfect? No. But is it is finally the beginning of the end of Bush’s adventures.
Iraq is in a horrible multi-sectarian civil war, and there will be plenty of more Iraq civilian carnage, which may accelerate temporality as a result of troop redeployment. That is indeed unfortunate, but it is inevitable.
It is unjust to ask our troops to sacrifice and stand between several warring factions. Their presence and the reckless surge will only produce temporary results. The current tactical focus. — the surge, patrol Baghdad, to create political stability– is beyond absurd. This is a fools errand of attempting to create stability for a government that does not function and is controlled by groups that do not really want stability—they want to slaughter and exile their enemies.
The military should immediately focus and foster in a proactive way the inevitable— de facto partition and the end of modern “Iraqâ€. Partition and force regional stability through various alliances, including intense diplomatic engagement with Iran and Turkey.
Bush as Commander and Chief, should have the judgment, wisdom, dignity and sense of duty to do all that he can to get the soldiers out of harms way. Unfortunately, it is more important for him to avoid having to admit a horrible blunder, even at the expense of many more American casualties.
The worst Commander and Chief ever— so indifferent to the lives of his troops.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:00 pmComment by willyloman — July 14, 2007 @ 12:58 pm
You idiot.
None of us did that!
July 14th, 2007 at 1:02 pmHow can you talk to these “people�
Talk about painting with a broad brush…
Comment by Future troll — July 14, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Sometimes a broad brush is just the right tool for the job.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:03 pmComment by Future troll —
Reasonable-minded conservatives are so few, and on the margins of political debate – so it’s safe to use the broad brush technique.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:04 pmSometimes a broad brush is just the right tool for the job.
You know, us trolls are not some friggin’ monolithic entity any more than you regular users are. If I could, I’d ban the heartless bastards who made fun of a fallen soldier. There’s no excuse for that shit.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:06 pmIn the memory of that fallen Soldier whose name the hi-jacked to ridicule and bebase that verteran of 3 tours-of-duty in Iraq; i beg of the people in this thread to continue with your discussions and to completely ignore the trolls.
please. If that soldier looks back in and sees us talking to them, what would he think about this site?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:07 pmJames Madison has been referred to as the father of the Constitution. I think he knew what he was talking about here.
“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.” – James Madison
James Madison wrote in Federalist Paper No. 47:
“The accumulation of all powers legislative, executive and judiciary in the same hands, whether of one, a few or many…may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny”
“No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” – James Madison
James madison must be rolling over in his grave with all the destruction this Administration has wraught on the Constitution and this nation. It is too bad he can’t pull a Jacob Marley (from A Christmas Carol) and visit Bush and Cheney in their sleep…
July 14th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThere’s no excuse for that shit.
Comment by Future troll — July 14, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
You’re new here, and can be forgiven your naivete’. After a while (if you stick around) you will see graphic displays of such behavior by trolls.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:09 pm#287: New? And just how do you determine that?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:10 pmOK Willy, I’m done.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:11 pmComment by willyloman — July 14, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Dude… I hate to break it to you… but,
YOU’RE A TROLL!!!
You have been blabbering about nonsense from day one!
July 14th, 2007 at 1:12 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
And just how do you determine that?
Comment by Future troll —
Because you profess ignorance to the activities of TP’s trolls.
Or you could just be acting naive’ about what goes on around here …
And now, I am done.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:14 pmJuly 14th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
The viciousness and the hatred I saw yesterday has no place on a progressive site. I believe in intillectual debate, and opposing points of view are refreshing…but yesterday….not even 24 hours ago.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:16 pmThere is no justification for that kind of abject loathing. it is a sign of serious mental instability.
And even if it was said simply to detract service members from coming to this site, it was beyond any reasonable scope.
I will not post about this again, and I thank you barfly.
Neither I nor Mr. President nor Future Troll would ever mock a dead soldier.
Those comments were a crazy display of disrespect.
Hopefully, that user was banned.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:16 pmWillyloman.
I just hope that soldiers DID come in and see that.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pmNone of us did that!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
I’m feeling a little queasy just responding to you, because I think it’s pretty likely you were the scumb*g who flamed that thread yesterday. I don’t know for sure, and the only ones who do know are you, the troll who did it, and the TP administrators.
But the fact is, you have built up a rep on this site for exactly that kind of bullsh!t. You, CT_V1, He’s12, Jake, VV, the whole bunch (however many there are) clearly come here only to amuse yourselves and for no other reason. You don’t come to contribute, you don’t take any progressive arguments seriously, you don’t even hold yourselves to any internal conistency in your arguments or standards.
If you or any of your buddies had integrity in what you post, there would be no reason to suspect you. But you don’t. So we have no reason to believe your protestations of innocence.
There is good reason to believe you did it, and none to believe your claim of innocence.
You made your bed, Mr. Pee. Deal with it.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pmThat user WAS Mr. President.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pm“To be a patriot, one had to say, and keep on saying, “Our country, right or wrong,” and urge on the little war. Have you not perceived that that phrase is an insult to the nation?”
July 14th, 2007 at 1:18 pm- Mark Twain’s “Glances at History,”
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
Neither would Troll or Flaco for that matter.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:19 pmNeither I nor Mr. President nor Future Troll…
You speak for all of those nicks? Yeah, that’s what I’ve been saying all along. Thanks for confirming it, pinhead.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:19 pmComment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
‘willyloman’ shudders in fear of additional pro-gay threads.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:20 pmThat user WAS Mr. President. — Comment by BARTLEBEE
Obviously.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
July 14th, 2007 at 1:21 pmBenjamin Franklin
Though they say it was not them…we are suposed to believe that two users came in and flamed the thread, for the first time ever, and then never returned.
And during that time, these two who are always here, just happened to be gone?
It was them, hiding their names for the purpose of disrupting a very moving thread posted by a Veteran of 3 tour-of-duty.
It was cowardly and wrond and they will never live it down, I hope, in the memories of TP posters.
I agree with Bartlebee….it was them.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:22 pm“You don’t come to contribute, you don’t take any progressive arguments seriously, you don’t even hold yourselves to any internal conistency in your arguments or standards.”
Most live in a self-isolated bubble of carefully-constructed steroypes and cliche’d rhetoric. They don’t have even two original thoughts to rub together for warmth.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:23 pmComment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
I’m glad to confirm it, since I’d never be the spokesperson for Islamophile
dumf*cks.
Arthur C. = Muslim blower
July 14th, 2007 at 1:24 pmI know it was Mr President from a simple analysis of the writing.
I am not guessing. I am not speculating.
It WAS Mr. President.
Thats a fact.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:24 pm“Where’s the tyranny? Where’s the oppresion? Let’s hear your evidence.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
Wheres the tyranny you inbred hack?
Try starting in the murder of the Iraqi people in a war based on lies and deciet.
You know Iraq.
Its the place you’re too scared to go to.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 14, 2007 @ 12:38 pm”
Hey Bartlebee, when did the words of Madison or the U.S. Constitution apply to foreign lands, especially ones that would never recognize the words of a Christian such as Madison? Do us all a favor and do some research prior to making such inane comments.
“..we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion…Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” -John Adams
July 14th, 2007 at 1:25 pmAnd the smell.
Don’t forget the god-awful smell.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:25 pmComment by spit take — July 14, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Speculate to your full desire. We “trolls” know we did nothing wrong.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:26 pmMost live in a self-isolated bubble of carefully-constructed steroypes and cliche’d rhetoric. They don’t have even two original thoughts to rub together for warmth.
Comment by barfly
They are here to disrupt, with their classic diversionary tricks, productive political discourse. Yesterday should be the last straw.
Many TPers have left as a result, but that is just want they want. I will continue to post and will never respond to anything they post. That is my choice.
It’s a good site. I know in time, without attention, they will move on to another place.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:27 pmDo us all a favor and do some research prior to making such inane comments.
Do us all a favor and read the thread, dumbass. If it’s too hard, have yer little sister read it to yaz.
If Tyranny and Oppression Come to this Land, it Will be in the Guise of Fighting a Foreign Enemy. — James Madison
July 14th, 2007 at 1:28 pmWe “trolls†know…
One guy. Multiple computers.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pmDon’t forget the god-awful smell.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
and there is of course, the smell.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pmMr. Take,
If you weren’t such a deluded fool you would know exactly who did it!
Plus, I don’t really give a shit if you don’t like me because I won’t echo your opinions!!!
————————————————————————————-
TYPICAL LEFTY BLOG:
1) CHIMPEACH! CHIMPEACH!
- dodo-head
2) send a letter to congress!
- bluebaby
3) CHIMPEACH! CHIMPEACH!
- NOTaCon
4) Write to your Congressperson!
- Coolguy143
5) Dude, if we leave Iraq, obviously everyone will be slaughtered.
- RealAmerican
6) TROLL!!!!
- dodo-head
7) DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!
- bluebaby
8) PISS-SOAKED BLOOD THIRSTY TROLLS!!!!!
- NOTaCon
9) TROLLS ARE SO DUMB!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pm- CoolGuy143
HEyOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Bartlebee, when did the words of Madison or the U.S. Constitution apply to foreign lands,.
Comment by O. Bigfool — July 14, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
I didn’t say the words were for a foriegn land you inbred (means your mom did her brother and had you), twit.
The words were for us. Not for foriegners, for US. Thats U.S.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:29 pmal-Maliki’s statements have become increasingly critical of the US presence in Iraq in the past few months – he is blaming our forces for killing a lot of civilians, and also that our occupation is the primary reason for violence. Now, he clearly says that the US does not need to be there, just give us some weapons and let us be that self-sufficient nation Bush claims he wants.
Your stunning timeline that shows how Bush has continually redefined the mission in Iraq over the past few years.
In the project management world, you’re trained to watch for “scope creep” – the tendency for a project’s definition and objectives to expand and morph over time. Scope creep can turn a well-defined project into a never-ending project.
It’s clear that the publically-announced objectives of Bush’s Iraq War has suffered greatly from what I call “mission creep”. However, I don’t think this is unintentional. His public statements for the objectives in Iraq have always been a little broad, and as the TPM timeline shows, they have morphed dramatically over a short timeframe. He’s been repackaging and selling the US a war that they just can’t live without, because the objectives are never clearly defined, and continually grow (and are reinforced by the fear of what will happen if you end the project and don’t get those ever-morphing objectives).
It appears that Bush’s private mission in Iraq has always been to establish a long-term presence occupying that nation. So, he’s done a great job of turning a project with clearly defined objectives into a never-ending project with dire consequences. al-Maliki sees it, and he’s calling Bush on it.
All al-Maliki wants is for Bush to give them weapons and get out. An awful lot of US citizens agree. The only reason Bush won’t acquiesce is because he doesn’t want to leave – withdrawal was never one of the private objectives.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:30 pmwell, glad i missed the flamed thread…
surely that mess has been cleaned up by now…
just want to say, after reading this:
How can you talk to these “people�
Talk about painting with a broad brush…
Comment by Future troll — July 14, 2007 @ 1:00 pm
Sometimes a broad brush is just the right tool for the job.
Comment by spit take — July 14, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
you got that right, spit take…
from an old sign painter… (used to be, mostly… it’s a dying art)…
and i ask the same question myself at times…
July 14th, 2007 at 1:30 pmhow and why? … whatever for?… as if…
…
Speculate to your full desire. We “trolls†know we did nothing wrong.
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
It doesn’t really matter to me.
You’re the guys who keep defending yourselves. All I’m saying is that we don’t believe you, and here’s why.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:32 pmgotta run. tatafornow all you “leftists”.
I watched “Network” for the first time last night. The old one with Robert Duval. Good film. 1976 I think.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:32 pmOk. Looks like there’s an internal investigation of my trolling practices. Until those issues are resolved, I will not post again.
Comment by No-one in particular
GOOD RIDDANCE.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:33 pmSee #307 to laugh at how CT_V1 aka Mr. President aka Future Troll responds when he’s lost an argument.
Like a whiny 6th grader.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:34 pmThough they say it was not them…we are suposed to believe that two users came in and flamed the thread, for the first time ever, and then never returned.
And during that time, these two who are always here, just happened to be gone?
It was them, hiding their names for the purpose of disrupting a very moving thread posted by a Veteran of 3 tour-of-duty.
It was cowardly and wrond and they will never live it down, I hope, in the memories of TP posters.
I agree with Bartlebee….it was them.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIt’s a good site. I know in time, without attention, they will move on to another place.
Comment by willyloman — July 14, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
I spend most of my time these days here Willy.
http://www.lydiacornell.com/blog.html
Its a pretty cool little blog, where some interesting authors and actors and actresses visit. I’ve spoken to several, including Robert Dryfuss (author of “The Devils Game”) and others in there. Larry Johnson, has also come in, as has some congressmen like Charlie Rangle and others. It has trolls, but the site is monitorerd and troll crap that is offensive is removed. Check it out sometime.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pmComment by O. Bigfoot
I guess big mouth isn’t such an expert on history as he thinks. The poor guy’s had nearly an hour to respond, but can seem to marshall any facts to aid him.
I do feel sorry for such self-deluded souls.
But not much.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pmZoeey’s opposes a world of “right-wing†censorship, etc.
Tha’ts because she wants the way cleared for a crazy left-wing dictatorship.
Comment by CT_V1
Woman basher, you’re brave when she’s gone. We all saw your racist rants on the GOP thread with your butt buddy Mr. President last night. And your bashing of the soldier.
Whine all you want swine, nobody cares. You should be banished from the continent not just from TP. You and Mr. P, both traitors and fascists.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:36 pmSee #307 to laugh at how CT_V1 aka Mr. President aka Future Troll responds when he’s lost an argument.
Like a whiny 6th grader.
Comment by Arthur C.
Exactly. #306 I think. But exactly. They have to try to redirect the attention to someone else. Childish and deserves no response.
I venture to say from reading these posts over the last few weeks, that poster here wouldn’t give these trolls the time of day in real life.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:37 pmi heard this story the other day… was reminded by an earlier post…
this is too good to not post this much!
QUOTATION: The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, “My country, right or wrong.†In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pmATTRIBUTION: Senator CARL SCHURZ, remarks in the Senate, February 29, 1872, The Congressional Globe, vol. 45, p. 1287. The Globe merely notes “[Manifestations of applause in the galleries]†but according to Schurz’s biographer, “The applause in the gallery was deafening.â€
[...]
Schurz expanded on this theme in a speech delivered at the Anti-Imperialistic Conference, Chicago, Illinois, October 17, 1899: “I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves … too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: ‘Our country, right or wrong!’ They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: ‘Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.’â€â€”Schurz, “The Policy of Imperialism,â€
[...]
http://www.bartleby.com/73/1641.html
.
Mr. Take,
If you weren’t such a deluded fool you would know exactly who did it!
Plus, I don’t really give a shit if you don’t like me because I won’t echo your opinions!!!
+++
HEyOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
Thanks for proving my point, Mr. Pee. It’s crap like this that makes real TP posters strongly suspect that you were the one who hijacked the name of a dead soldier in order to smear the reputation of a live one yesterday.
Argue all you want, but WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU. And posts like this are the reason why, just like I explained in my earlier post. I can understand why you resist what I’m saying — it’s an ugly thing to realize that others who know you (sort of) being you capable of such a disgusting act.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:38 pmwillyloman is a regular!
Comment by Mr. President
Why don’t you find a country that already live under tyranny so you feel more at home. Ba bye.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pmComment by BARTLEBEE
Thank you very much. i will be in there. you know, I went to college for acting and directing. I worked professionally as a stage actor for a few years after college.
Again, I thank you for the site. I will be in there. You keep Bartlebee as your tag?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pmMr. President was the one using racial slurs, and mocking a fallen soldier.
Everyone knows it, and nothing he says will change that fact.
Nothing.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:40 pmCorrection to my post of 1:38 pm
I can understand why you resist what I’m saying — it’s an ugly thing to realize that others who know you (sort of) believe you capable of such a disgusting act.
Sorry.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:41 pmAgain, I thank you for the site. I will be in there. You keep Bartlebee as your tag?
Comment by willyloman — July 14, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Yea. I still post under BARTLEBEE.
Thats me.
BARTLEBEE.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:42 pmBARTLEBEE is a literary character? Tale of Two Cities?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:44 pmBartleby the Scrivener? Melville.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:45 pmNo. The Vengeful Angel from “DOGMA”.
:D
July 14th, 2007 at 1:47 pmArthur C. = Muslim blower
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Our president is the one who likes to kiss and hold the hands of Muslim princes and sheiks. I’ve seen the photos.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:48 pm:D
July 14th, 2007 at 1:48 pmNot Ben Afflack? No……. LIE TO ME!!!!
Not Ben!!!!!! didn’t he get it on with Cartmans hand in the J-Lo episode?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
July 14th, 2007 at 1:48 pmMuslim princes and sheiks. I’ve seen the photos.
Comment by Keith G — July 14, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
————————————
Those aren’t Muslims, those are Saudis.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:49 pmYea, thats true Keith. I’ve seen them too.
In fact, he was caught smooching with Joe Lieberman too.
:|
Not that theres anything wrong with that….
July 14th, 2007 at 1:50 pm“Those aren’t Muslims, those are Saudis.”
That’s no lady, she’s my wife!
July 14th, 2007 at 1:51 pm(i’m shaking) from now on, it’s Bartleby the Scrivner like Auther C said…
that’s my story and I’m stickin with it
“now, screw you guys, I’m goin home” cartman…hand that Ben did.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:52 pmYes Willy. The character was played by Ben Afflack.
The name represents the character, not Ben himself.
Although I might point out that Ben is a staunch supporter of the progressive cause, and has sat on REAL TIME panel several times.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:52 pmNot that theres anything wrong with that….
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Can you imagine Joe and Chimpy doing the monkey hole dance?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:53 pmCan you imagine Joe and Chimpy doing the monkey hole dance?
Comment by willyloman — July 14, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
:|
Thanks.
Its gonna take years of therapy to get that image out of my head.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:54 pmOf course, with those two, doesn’t every hole constitute “the monkey hole”?
July 14th, 2007 at 1:55 pmAlthough I might point out that Ben is a staunch supporter of the progressive cause, and has sat on REAL TIME panel several times.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
yes, these are all true. But, in the cartoon world, where most of our Senators live, he got lucky with Cartman’s hand.
That’s it. got to go.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:55 pmThe reason the US invaded Iraq is the same reason as the last 100 times we have invaded somebody:
We wanted to control that part of the world. Iraq has the second largest oil reserves. Some say potentially the largest. It sits in between #1 and #3, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Look for an “incident” soon with Iran–giving us an excellent reason to attack Iran.
PNAC put this down in black and white ten years ago.
Cheney’s Energy Task Force divided Iraq’s oil fields in MARCH 2001.
http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2007/04/iraq-may-have-twice-as-much-oil-and-war.html
July 14th, 2007 at 1:56 pmOf course, with those two, doesn’t every hole constitute “the monkey hole�
Comment by BARTLEBEE
just look for the ones with the half rotted banana peel sticking out of them.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:56 pmlater
July 14th, 2007 at 1:57 pm“Those aren’t Muslims, those are Saudis.â€
Religion of Saudi Arabia? Islam.
Dumbshit.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:58 pmThe reason the US invaded Iraq is…
George Bush’s poll ratings needed a boost.
July 14th, 2007 at 1:59 pmThose aren’t Muslims, those are Saudis.
Comment by Mr. President
Surely you jest… Saudis aren’t Moslems????
July 14th, 2007 at 2:01 pmComment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Ha, you lose, cristofascist B!tch!
Lose lose lose lose
July 14th, 2007 at 2:02 pmLose lose lose lose
loser, just like your monkey king. Ha.
The reason the US invaded Iraq is…
George Bush’s poll ratings needed a boost.
Comment by Arthur C.
But that doesn’t explain dividing up Iraq’s oil fields in MARCH 2001.
Also, his ratings going down to 26% disproves that argument.
And that doesn’t explain our previous 100 invasions.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:06 pmAlthough I might point out that Ben is a staunch supporter of the progressive cause, and has sat on REAL TIME panel several times.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
And he was gooood, tough and pissed! And not bad to look at I might add.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:06 pmCan you imagine Joe and Chimpy doing the monkey hole dance?
Comment by willyloman
Is that a dance they learned at prep school?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:07 pmBen got a “1600″ on his SAT’s.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:08 pmSurely you jest… Saudis aren’t Moslems????
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 14, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
———————————————————————————
The Saudi King and his regime are too “Western” and “Capitalistic” to be considered muslims by the extremists. That is why OBL wants to over throw the Saudi regime, and steal the oil for himself!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:09 pmBen got a “1600″ on his SAT’s.
Comment by Keith G
Well that would explain why he’s progressive.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:10 pmIs the reason we overthrew our monarchy so we could take oil?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:11 pmThe reason the US invaded Iraq is… George Bush’s poll ratings needed a boost. — Arthur C.
Also, his ratings going down to 26% disproves that argument — Keith G
That doesn’t disprove anything; it merely proves that his plan backfired, not surprisingly since we know Bush is totally incompetent.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:11 pmThe cover story changes with the political winds, but the true mission has not changed – to loot Iraq’s oil and to allow Bush/Cheney campaign contributors to fatten themselves at the taxpayer trough.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:13 pmSaudi Arabia is a monarchy in which the top 1,000 positions in the country go to the royal family. (They have a lot of children).
July 14th, 2007 at 2:13 pmThe Saudi King and his regime are too “Western†and “Capitalistic†to be considered muslims by the extremists. That is why OBL wants to over throw the Saudi regime, and steal the oil for himself!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
I don’t think the multi-millionaire Usama bin Laden has a real problem with capitalism.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:15 pmIf Bush was concerned about ratings. He would get out of Iraq. They are concerned with controlling that part of the world (like our previous 100 invasions). That part of the world has the oil. PNAC made this crystal clear ten years ago.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:16 pmSaudi Arabia is a monarchy in which the top 1,000 positions in the country go to the royal family. (They have a lot of children).
Comment by Keith G — July 14, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
—————————————————————————————
Exactly. But part of being a Muslims is giving charity to the Ummah (the world-wide Muslim community), the Saudis, however, keep the oil profits for themselves! Also, the Saudis don’t follow Shari’ah law, they follow man made laws.
For these reasons OBL says that the Saudis are not Muslims, but rather they are Mushriks!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:18 pmI don’t think the multi-millionaire Usama bin Laden has a real problem with capitalism.
Comment by toasterhead — July 14, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
———————————————————————–
Think again!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:19 pmFantastic post, in it’s tragedy.
There is no way to react to this but with gut wrenching disgust. The mission is clear, the mission is clearly undefined and enigmatic. The mission is exactly that which I have not stated, and will not state, to secure Iraqi oil.
To secure WPM?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pmTo secure Freedom?
To secure Democracy?
To help the Iraqi’s make progress toward reconciliation?????????????? What the FUKC??? When did our military become family mediators and counselors??????
If this were Clinton doing this, or any Progressive, they would be having an orgy of orgasm about Nation Building, etc. Unfukcing believable these hacks are. Unfukcing believable. No shame. No soul. NO integrity. Only void, and lust for power.
If Bush was concerned about ratings. He would get out of Iraq.
He can’t, without admitting he was wrong. And there is one thing you will never ever hear from anyone remotely connected with the GOP: “I was wrong, and I take responsibility for my actions.”
GOP=”party of personal responsibility”? Don’t make me laugh.
Actually Kieth G., A agree with almost everything you say. I just happen to believe that Bush is even more subhuman and soulless than you think.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pm“For these reasons OBL says that the Saudis are not Muslims, but rather they are Mushriks!”
Comment by Mr. President
A truly grand example of simple-mindedness. There are no muslims in Saudi Arabia – even though the religion’s most holy site is in Saudi Arabia.
Right.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:21 pmFantastic post, in it’s tragedy.
There is no way to react to this but with gut wrenching disgust. The mission is clear, the mission is clearly undefined and enigmatic. The mission is exactly that which I have not stated, and will not state, to secure Iraqi oil.
To secure WPM?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:23 pmTo secure Freedom?
To secure Democracy?
To help the Iraqi’s make progress toward reconciliation?????????????? What the FU@k??? When did our military become family mediators and counselors??????
If this were Clinton doing this, or any Progressive, they would be having an orgy of orgasm about Nation Building, etc. Unfu@king believable these hacks are. Unfu@king believable. No shame. No soul. NO integrity. Only void, and lust for power.
Think again! — Mr. President
I remind you, Mr. President is so stupid he thought Saudis were not Muslims. I guess he thought they were Catholics or something.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:24 pmI remind you, Mr. President is so stupid he thought Saudis were not Muslims. I guess he thought they were Catholics or something.
Comment by Arthur C.
Right, and now his only recourse is gibberish and poo flinging.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:26 pmI remind you, Mr. President is so stupid he thought Saudis were not Muslims…
Comment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
———————————————————————–
As I said, according to OBL they Mushriks, ask toasterhead I bet he knows!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:27 pmSaudis are not Muslims, but rather they are Mushriks! — Mr. President
For Mr. “Dumbass” President, from the CIA Factbook:
Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam and home to Islam’s two holiest shrines in Mecca and Medina. The king’s official title is the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.
Religions: Muslim 100%
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sa.html
July 14th, 2007 at 2:28 pmComment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Mr. Dick, do you have a purpose other than insisting that Moslims are defined as OBL says that are. I mean, I know you and your type are sychophantic hacks, but this takes it to a new level. We always knew deep down inside how much you shared with the ‘terrists’, but now your just outright promoting their propaganda. Dumbass.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:29 pm“As I said, according to OBL they Mushriks,”
So now we’re supposed to believe OBL? I thought quoting OBL was reserved for “treasonous” democrats. Time have sure changed…
July 14th, 2007 at 2:30 pmComment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Boy, you clearly don’t have a firm grip on reality.
Do you even remember why this is being discussed?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:30 pmIt’s being discussed to demonstrate what an ignorant blowhard you are.
#341: Those aren’t Muslims, those are Saudis. — Comment by Mr. President
Why did you think it was being discussed, junior?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:36 pmComment by Arthur C. — July 14, 2007 @ 2:36 pm
Because Keith G. said:
Arthur C. = Muslim blower
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Our president is the one who likes to kiss and hold the hands of Muslim princes and sheiks. I’ve seen the photos.
Comment by Keith G — July 14, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
But those are the Saudis, enemy of our enemies, the Radical Muslim Extremists Murdering Terrorists, ruled by Osama bin Laden. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are too “Western” and to not fulfill their duties as Muslims according to OBL.
We are at war here fellas, you need to know how the enemy thinks!!!
The fact that America and Bush are friends with the Saudis does not mean we are Muslim lovers!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:45 pmIt merely means that we plan to spread Capitalism across the world!!!
Hey, what do you keep addressing Mr. President?
It is like the Jake-fever of regular posters we had over here in the past. He has nothing worth of thoughtful response, just bolds letters and exclamation marks. (Although I have to say that it is funny the way you are mopping the floor with him)
July 14th, 2007 at 2:48 pm“I hope we shall… crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.†–Thomas Jefferson to George Logan, 1816. FE 10:69
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian(PLC) — July 14, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
Thanks for that and the other quotes.
And there you have defeatist, modern-day liberal/leftist ideology in a nutshell. I couldn’t have defined it better myself.
And as long as places like this exist, there will be folks like me who bring a little reality to the subject.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Perspective;
July 14th, 2007 at 2:48 pmIn 1776, the British wanted to tax the colonies, control their daily lives, intrude on their privacy. The brave men, like Jefferson, and women who resisted are our founding fathers and national heroes to Americans. The British had a different perspective, but though America was fighting better trained and equipped forces, a just cause and determination brought victory.
Now, Mr. Bigmouth, sorry, Bigfoot; Pretend that Great Britain is the United States. And pretend that the Revolutionary period America is Iraq.
Get it? Reality is your opinion without the perspective of wisdom.
Jesus, the great liberal philosopher spoke in parables. Read up on him too. :>)
the Radical Muslim Extremists Murdering Terrorists, ruled by Osama bin Laden. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are too “Western†and to not fulfill their duties as Muslims according to OBL.
I can be thats a Star Trek line.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:49 pmRight, and now his only recourse is gibberish and poo flinging.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — July 14, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
And that differs from his usual how?
July 14th, 2007 at 2:50 pmComment by Juan C — July 14, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
That should say:
“the Radical Muslim Extremist Murdering Terrorists, ruled by Osama bin Laden. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are too “Western†and do not fulfill their duties as Muslims according to OBL.”
He says it all in his “Declaration of Jihad against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places”
In that treatise he also tells how the Saudis are American-Lovers, and how the Saudi King’s regime must be overthrown!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 2:52 pmIn that treatise he also tells how the Saudis are American-Lovers, and how the Saudi King’s regime must be overthrown!!!!
Comment by Mr. President
You know thats really funny. Saudis are American-Lovers and Americans are Bin Laden´s lovers after they put up all the family in a plane and flew them out of the country after 9/11.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:57 pmYou know thats really funny. Saudis are American-Lovers and Americans are Bin Laden´s lovers after they put up all the family in a plane and flew them out of the country after 9/11.
Comment by Juan C — July 14, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
———————————————————————————-
Those guys are cool, but we aren’t Muslim lovers!
We hate Osama bin Laden, so does his own family and country!
He is an exile, and a threat to the Capitalistic Imperialism that we shall impose on the all of the Middle East!!!!
Get ready for the New American Century of Exploitation and Murder!!!!
July 14th, 2007 at 3:07 pmZooey, every time you ignore me, my bum itches.
You’re not nice.
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 11:44 am
Unrequited love… it looks like TP is becoming a lonely hearts club for hapless trolls.
July 14th, 2007 at 3:08 pmThe best thing we’ve seen in 7 years. Everybody do their part.
PBS Bill Moyers’ Journal: Impeachment Panel Excerpt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×40850
July 14th, 2007 at 3:25 pmCan you even believe this sicko???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×40796
Press: “It’s 130 degrees for our US troops too, A$$HOLE.”
Baghdad Snowjob: “Uuuuuuuuhhhhh– Duuuuuuuuuuuuh– right, you got me. I am a trick and a whore, and a traitor to my countries ‘boots on the ground’.
July 14th, 2007 at 3:33 pmCorrection
Can you even believe this sicko???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×40796
Press: “It’s 130 degrees for our US troops too, A$$HOLE.”
Baghdad Snowjob: “Uuuuuuuuhhhhh– Duuuuuuuuuuuuh– right, you got me. I am a trick and a whore, and a traitor to my country’s ‘boots on the ground’.
July 14th, 2007 at 3:34 pmWhat a post. Hard to keep it on track, though. Too much misdirection. For the record, there are not “islamo-marxists”; that is an oxymoron. Marx said, “Religion is the opium of the people.” Meaning that religion with its emphasis on the hereafter dulls their concerns about the here and now. He called for the overthrow of organized religion. Perhaps the real point is that islamists like OBL and the Taliban are really best described as “fundamentalists”, i.e. relying upon the basics, the original principles. But that term is widely used to describe the conservative Republican base, too. Perhaps the trolls are just a wee bit uncomfortable using the same term. Little too close to home???
July 14th, 2007 at 3:44 pm“Hey Bartlebee, when did the words of Madison or the U.S. Constitution apply to foreign lands,.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
I didn’t say the words were for a foriegn land you inbred (means your mom did her brother and had you), twit.
The words were for us. Not for foriegners, for US. Thats U.S.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 14, 2007 @ 1:29 pm”
You are either extremely misguided, Bartlebee, or you are simply stupid and can’t learn. Either way, I would say it’s past time for you to some soul-searching if you are going to play with the “big boys”.
You brought up the words of Madison, quoting about tyranny and such, then I asked you to provide evidence to back up your insinuation that this discussion has anything to do with tyranny, and the only thing you could come up with was Iraq. Madison’s words, and the Constitution, do not apply to Iraq, and you agree with me that is true, but still hurl your personal insults.
Bartlebee, you are a disgrace to your cause. You don’t know the first thing about debate. You are either 15 years old, or quite immature for your years if you are actually older.
Go learn something, gain some maturity, then attempt to come back and debate me. Otherwise, you will simply lose again and again. In the meantime, you simply aren’t worth my time.
July 14th, 2007 at 3:55 pmstill waiting, mr.bigfoot…
you sounded like the type that might be up to the task…
Read the words of the Classical Liberals. What George Washington would see as modern-day liberalism would make him throw up his hands in disgust and look for a new land to settle. The word “liberal†was long-ago hijacked into something the founders had no recognition of, and no tolerance for.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
without having read past this post, i understand that i could be prolonging the suffering of a dreaded “trollâ€, but this one seems to bring up a more interesting take on things…
i’d be interested to hear mr.bigfoot elaborate on that “factoid†above…
with sources and/or links, of course…
…
Comment by katy — July 14, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
… are you? … and keep it civil too, of course…
July 14th, 2007 at 4:05 pmcan you?
…
You know what, Bigfoot, accusing someone else of needing to grow doesn’t make your argument any stronger. The fact is, you have no dea what Bartlebee is saying, because you don’t seem to have the mental dexterity or the intellectual sophistication to discern the nature of an idea. I’m not sure which is missing, but one of them is. You have a new screen name, but your style of conversation is exactly like so many other trolls.
So keep your insults to yourself; no one is listening and no one with any sense is paying any more attention to you guys.
Maybe when one of you shows up with some game, and some capacity for evaluating a progressive argument without leaning on a half-a$$ed or downright ignorant sense of liberalism, we might start to take that conservative seriously.
They don’t show up around here very often.
July 14th, 2007 at 4:07 pmComment by AtticusinPa — July 14, 2007 @ 3:44 pm
_____________________________________________________
Islamo-Marxism:
The “Islamo” refers to the ‘fundamentalism’ that you mention,
The “Marxism” refers to the ‘anti-capitalism’ of Karl Marx.
_____________________________________________________
I did not mean Marxism proper, for if I did I would have said Islamic Marxists, or Muslim Marxists.
Islamo-Marxism denotes the a synthesis of the religious ideology of Islam, and the anti-capitalistic ideology of Marxism.
July 14th, 2007 at 4:08 pm“Islamo-Marxism”
I much prefer “IslaMoeHowardism.” [Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!]
July 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pmComment by barfly — July 14, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
They’ll murderize ya!
July 14th, 2007 at 4:56 pmThis is a great service — documenting Bush’s lies.
Hard to do ….when there are mountains of them.
But, thanks!
July 14th, 2007 at 5:03 pm“They’ll murderize ya!”
Oh, go on; ‘yer silly!
July 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmHey OBigmouth.
I’d kick yer ass again but I’m busy.
Check with me later.
July 14th, 2007 at 5:31 pmI taught elementary school for 34 years and the morphing of lies to cover other lies was a common thing among 10 year olds. I would expect the President of the United States of America to be beyond such antics. BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE WITH THE CURRENT OCCUPANT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. I cannot recall a more dangerous, reckless person sitting in the most powerful position of the planet.
July 14th, 2007 at 5:36 pmAnd to top it off, he lies worse than a 10 year old.
# 396 – Comment by O. Bigfoot — July 14, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
“Go learn something, gain some maturity, then attempt to come back and *debate* me. Otherwise, you will simply lose again and again. In the meantime, you simply aren’t worth my time.”
The troll who uses the alias above has NO intention of “debating” ANYONE (that is why I added the asterisks to make the word stand out). S/He and the troll using the alias “Mr. President” have only THREE objectives: 1. take this thread off-topic, 2. call those with whom they disagrees derogatory names, and 3. try (in vain) to keep the focus of this thread on THEM and their false assertions.
When we allow them to take us off topic, we play into their hands.
These trolls debate the way the current corrupt, crooked president distorts the truth (which is, by the way, the topic of this thread, though you would NEVER know it by the troll posts).
July 14th, 2007 at 5:42 pmI lived through the time in Texas when the current corrupt, crooked president was the corrupt, crooked GOVERNOR of Texas.
He was a loser then, just as he is a loser now. He is still using the same methods accurately described in the post by Jordan Grossman, which is the topic of this thread.
The current corrupt, crooked president will say ANYTHING to fool the public into letting him get his way. I assume that is how he manipulated his parents when he was a coke-head, AWOL, lying, over-age juvenille.
I blame Rove for helping him in his assaults on the truth and the Constitution, but it’s HIS character flaw that causes him to use all of the lame excuses for the invasion, occupation, and destruction of Iraq, hoping we’ll continue to fall for his warmongering, just as his parents continued to fall for his malingering.
July 14th, 2007 at 5:58 pmMarxism, and communism removed all religion from society, one of the largest mistakes USSR did. To say Islamo-Marxism, is idiotic, of course that goes for everything the self styled mr president/flaco/jake/etc.. says so not a huge suprise.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:05 pmFewer “Parody Trolls” please?
Its long past old.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:07 pmmoney and money, what else matters?
July 14th, 2007 at 6:32 pmIslamo-Marxism denotes the a synthesis of the religious ideology of Islam, and the anti-capitalistic ideology of Marxism.
Comment by Mr. President
Riiight… and what about Salamo-Marxism? A synthesis of dried, salted beef and the humor of Groucho?
Damn, makes me hungry, and thirsty… maybe I’ll go get me a sammitch & a cold beer and pop “A Day At the Races” into the DVD player.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:35 pmPlus, kill Islamo-Marxists!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 10:18 am
Islamo-MARXISTS? Groucho or Chico?
Comment by bogtrotters — July 14, 2007 @ 10:20 am
I am placing my bets on Harpo and maybe Borat.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:37 pmWhere is our resident chickenhawk troll Tracy? On a thread some months back he got really indignant when I wrote that Bush’s reasons for this invasion/war keep on changing. He even demanded that I apologize for the “lie,” which I, of course, didn’t do.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pmThe Saudi King and his regime are too “Western†and “Capitalistic†to be considered muslims by the extremists. That is why OBL wants to over throw the Saudi regime, and steal the oil for himself!!!
Comment by Mr. President
Perhaps you should, **snicker… snicker**, try running this past the Saudis themselves. I’d LOVE to catch their reactions to your, ahem, “definitive anaysis” of the situation.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:41 pmThe idiots mouth off on this board over “right-wing censorship,†but I have never seen censorship of that magnitude on any commentary section.
May lefty stalinism die a painful death. It’s headed that way, thankfully.
Comment by CT_V1 — July 14, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
That’s because you have never tried to post a comment even mildly critical of Bush, Cheney, or the Iraq War on redstate, smarty-pants.
July 14th, 2007 at 6:44 pmAnd too bad that you haven’t noticed that Stalinism is dead everywhere except North Korea. And, BTW, North Korea is one country that actually has WMDs, but why hasn’t the US been fighting there? Could it have anything to do with that nation’s lack of oil or other valuable resources that the neoCONs crave?
http://www.pbs.org/ moyers/ journal/ video_popups/ pop_vid_impeachment1-1.html
discussion on Impeachment. Bruce Fein and John Nichols. Fein is from AEI and Supports Impeachment, as does the Nations Nichols.
The time has come for Impeachment
July 14th, 2007 at 6:47 pmIslamo-Marxism denotes the a synthesis of the religious ideology of Islam, and the anti-capitalistic ideology of Marxism. — Comment by Mr. President
This is said by the ignoramus who said earlier today that Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic nation.
Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim. Islam was born there.
Well, that dumb blowhard Mr. President was unaware of that fact. He knows nothing. Even better, had no reluctance to broadcast his ignorance from the rooftop.
Don’t you ever get tired of making an ass of yerself, ya snotfaced punk?
July 14th, 2007 at 6:48 pmThe enemy is 300 to 400 “Dead Endersâ€.
I thought there were only 200 or so Republicans in the House. So even if you add in the Senators, that’s still too high.
July 14th, 2007 at 7:04 pmGet ready for the New American Century of Exploitation and Murder!!!!
Comment by Mr. President — July 14, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
Well, at least you’re being honest about your ignoble goals: exploitation and murder!
July 14th, 2007 at 7:44 pmI am placing my bets on Harpo and maybe Borat.
Comment by Lora — July 14, 2007 @ 6:37 pm
——————————————-
Zeppo
July 14th, 2007 at 8:19 pmBy my count, there os more than a plan B–I see A through J.
July 14th, 2007 at 8:58 pmCan you imagine any other position (other than potus) where you can exhibit this highly insane behavior with immunity?
It’s become very clear to the world.
Is there some switch that is not being flipped in u.s.?
Is tv really that good?As long as there are vid games and bars with flat screens nothing else matters?
Some people need to get excited while you can.
Don’t get distracted.Really.
BTW: if the troops were getting trained to defend themselves (one of the bigger piles in the load), who are they training to protect themselves from?? Don’t spend allot of time on that.That is a big if.And the when is even more iffy.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:05 pmBut they still follow the repeat after me and print this waste of words.
Speaking of the environment: should be an epa violation to use so much paper to print unusable “news”.Using trees to distribute known lies is ………well,go back to the top of this
According to Rove, the whole point of the surge is to allow Pres. Fredo
rto re-define the mission:
Rove takes questions on Iraq, CIA case
Brent Gardner-Smith – Aspen Daily News Staff WriteSun 07/08/2007
09:01PM MST
Aspen Institute CEO Walter Isaacson interviewed Rove at the morning session of the Ideas Festival and asked him if the Bush administration would redefine the mission in Iraq. “Yes, we will be redefining the mission because the goal of the surge was to get us to a place where we could redefine the mission,” said Rove.
July 14th, 2007 at 9:23 pmwell, too bad… i was looking forward to that explanation of
the history of the word “liberal” and how it’s been hijacked…
the founders, and all that…
i’d be interested to hear mr.bigfoot elaborate on that “factoid†above…
with sources and/or links, of course…
…Comment by katy — July 14, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
… are you? [up to that task] … and keep it civil too, of course…
can you?
…Comment by katy — July 14, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
guess not…
July 14th, 2007 at 11:38 pmwhere is the mission statement to Steal Iraq’s OIL and Murder Iraqis ??
i don’t see that listed.
July 14th, 2007 at 11:44 pmBecause the rationale for the war has changed so many times, the American people no longer trust Bush or his policies in Iraq. This is why he has lost all credibility on Iraq. This is why we have lost our moral leadership in the world. We were lied into this war, and Saddam had no WMDs. Saddam’s regime was of no threat to us. It had nothing to do with 9-11. This is a war of choice. There was no connection between Saddam and bin Laden.
Our presence in Iraq is seen as an occupation. We are seen as invaders. Cheney was wrong when he said we would be greeted as liberators. The insurgency was not in its last throes. After more than 4 years the Iraqis are still not motivated to fight their civil war. How long are our troops supposed to fight someone else’s civil war? Going into Iraq had nothing to do with fighting terrorism. There are more terrorists in Iraq today because of our invasion. We are less safe because of it.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:34 am“guess not…”
Not really a surprise. Whenever someone responds by telling someone that they just don’t understand and that they should read a few books, without supplying a shred of information, that’s a sure sign that they are either trolling or don’t know what they are talking about or both.
All you have to do is look at his refusal to actually address the Madison quote that Bartlebee supplied. In countries like ours, tyranny doesn’t show up in overnight coups, it shows up with a gradual loss of oversight and rights. All too many tyrants began as duly elected leaders, something that is likely to be true of us if that scenario should ever take place here.
The Bush administration has used the “war on terror” for political gain from the very beginning and continues to use it so to this very day, claiming that those who oppose the administration on even trivial matters are “weak on defense,” “aiding and abetting our enemies,” “weakening our troops and our cause,” “emboldening those who would harm us,” and the like. They have fostered an attitude of fear in the population at large from the very beginning and continue to do so to this day.
They have used national security as a weapon to prevent any oversight into their actions and deliberations, even when there was very good reason to believe that their actions were unlawful and/or unconstitutional. They used that same weapon to deny the right of habeas corpus even to American citizens.
They continue to block Congressional and judicial oversight into any and all matters, even going so far as to assert executive privilege for matters in which the president wasn’t even involved (e.g., the Tillman investigation). The latter is quite literally something that no other administration has ever done.
If American does descend into tyranny, the first steps of that tyranny will be precisely what see today — a complete lack of oversight, redefining the powers of the presidency well beyond what the Founding Fathers intended, and constantly flogging an enemy and a war in order to keep themselves in power.
In short, the quote was apt. Not because the United States is presently a tyranny, but because the first steps have been taken down that road. Those steps would never have been possible without the never-ending “war on terror;” Madison had it exactly right.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:39 amGo learn something, gain some maturity, then attempt to come back and debate me. Otherwise, you will simply lose again and again. In the meantime, you simply aren’t worth my time.
Comment by O. BigMouth — July 14, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Maturity ay?
Ok.
I’ll start with your mom.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:34 amYou know things are getting really hot when the neo-con trolls are swarming a well know progressive blog. We are not welcome to spout our views on their controlled blogs. They have resorted to the playground bulling behavior which they perfected in grade school. Just speak as loudly as possible and keep speaking even if no one is listening. You can always tell yourself you won. This behavior is what led us into this war. There were dissenting opinions but the bullies just kept talking louder and louder, pushing around or out, those who did not agree. You reep what you sow.
July 15th, 2007 at 9:01 am399 Mr. P.
Fundamental muslims are not marxists in their economic practices either. They are quite good businessmen and have often lead thriving markets, so long as the businesses are run on islamic principles, for example, not charging interest which is seen as usury.
They are not anti-capitalist. This is oversimplification, but look at Iran today. Generally, a theocracy on the national level, much of their local decisions are made by an elected parliament. They have a thriving private enterprise, good education (although women’s education is now in danger and women teachers are being weeded out.) They have a significantly western approach to many things, but not to the fundamental principles of Islam as described in the Qu’ran.
Our enemies in the middle east are not islamo-fascists either. While fascism as several elements in common, e.g. the rigid enforcement of social rules, they are more correctly labeled as fundamental islamic theocracies.
Politicians of both stripes often resort to labeling things in order to gain support for or against; thus, the estate tax becomes the death tax, or the Paris Hilton tax, depending upon your political party.
Nevertheless, this is wrong. Calling our enemies islamo-marxists does not help us to understand or defeat them.
July 15th, 2007 at 9:40 amThis is the PNAC Agenda in Action.
They have NEVER intended to bring our troops home… EVER.
Bush is brilliant. He is the evil villian.
He’s just on a different agenda than the rest of us.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:42 pmJust happened into this forum while searching for documentation of Bush’s ever-changing Iraq mission statements. Wow. Some passion.
As an over-fifty independent-type it seems pretty obvious that in Iraq the oil’s always been the thing. Also seems obvious that, consistant with the massive lexicon of Bush malaprops and misstatements, “I’m the decider,” can be dismissed along with WMD and yellowcake.
Our C student (and proud of it) president has never displayed the intellectual capacity to make an informed decision much more complex than whether it’ll be lime Jello or fudgesicles for dessert. I don’t say this just to be desrespectful; I have to believe even most Republicans don’t believe our president is real bright.
So for those who want their democracy back, Cheney has to be impeached first. Though I wouldn’t have believed a year ago, this could happen, it just migh: see Moyer’s 7/13 PBS Impeachment offering.
Anyway, just a passing-through thought. And jeez, that O.bigmouth guy (oh, you just know it’s a male with short-man syndrome), what an ass.
..
July 15th, 2007 at 4:10 pmComment by AtticusinPa — July 15, 2007 @ 9:40 am
We have to call our various enemies something, that is the only way to differentiate between them (besides pointing). How about “Insane Muslim Killers”?
July 15th, 2007 at 5:38 pmHow about Shut the F*ck Up, bigot.
July 15th, 2007 at 7:34 pmOBL mission: Mission of Allah to screw Bush. (Already accomplished)
Bush mission: Mission of God to screw the Middle East and anybody who oppose me, including the American people. (Still trying…)
July 16th, 2007 at 12:04 amYou all still don’t have it right. It’s not the oil, that was gravy. This administration created a number of vehicles to allow they and their corporate cronies TO LOOT our national treasury.
That’s what the whole Cheney (and his puppet president) regime has been about: legally seizing untold trillions of public dollars for their private bank accounts.
July 16th, 2007 at 11:36 amOIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL! OIL!
This was, is and always will be the mission.
Bush/Cheney et al will not leave until the Iraqis agree to give 70% of their oil to big American oil companies and they have finished and secured the 13+ air bases as well as the Taj Mahal Embassy (the largest in the world at taxpayers expense.) After all, private contractors, need housing and bases so they can develop the oil fields and steal the oil. The U.S. has already managed to get a pipeline through Afghanistan. Next they will invade Iran and try to confiscate it’s oil. JH
July 16th, 2007 at 2:11 pmBush fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia!
(from The Princess Bride)
July 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pmHey TP – Congrats – Andrew Sullivan just link to this.
George W. Bush: Mission Creep. Heh.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:49 pmCan one of you enterprising folk put together a youtube that splices all those “our mission is” clips from Bush. That would make it very real to everyone.
July 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pm