Webb Rips Graham As ‘Politician Trying To Put His Political Views Into The Mouths Of Soldiers’
Webb Rips Graham As ‘Politician Trying To Put His Political Views Into The Mouths Of Soldiers’
This morning on Meet the Press, Sen. Jim Webb (D-VA) took Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) to task for spouting “support the troops” rhetoric while failing to take action to safeguard the long-term health of the military.
This week, Graham was among a handful of right-wing Senators who prevented the passage of an amendment sponsored by Webb that would have required soldiers to be given more rest at home after being deployed overseas. During the vote, Graham disingenuously claimed that if Webb’s bill passed, it would be “the greatest politicization of military action in the history of the country.”
This morning, Webb fought back. “The traditional operational policy has been if you’re gone for a year, you get two years back. We’re now in a situation where the soldiers and the Marines are having less than a 1 to 1 ratio.” Webb said. Turning to Graham, he added, “And somebody needs to speak up for them rather than defending what this President has been doing.”
“May I speak!” Webb said, as Graham tried to interrupt him. “This is one thing I really take objection to,” he said, “is politicians who try to put their political views into the mouths of soldiers.” Watch it:
Webb’s amendment would have required the Bush administration to provide at least a year of rest for every year that a member of the Armed Forces was deployed overseas. The amendment provided three years of rest for National Guard soldiers. In the vote to end the filibuster, 56 bipartisan members supported Webb’s amendment, less than the 60 needed to end debate.
This morning, when Graham tried to claim that he’s a qualified voice to speak on behalf of all soldiers because he has been to Iraq, Webb countered, “You go and see the dog-and-pony shows.” Webb scolded Graham, “Don’t put political words into [the soldier’s] mouth.”
UPDATE: Commenters Ann and Katy note Webb’s son has served in Iraq, but he refused to bring that into the debate this morning.
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Ask the soldiers sleeping in rat feces at Walter Reed if those republicans took care of the troops. The GOP supporting the troops is one of the funniest gags running.
July 15th, 2007 at 11:56 amGraham getting his advice lately from Joe Lieberman,who also showed how hypocrite he is when he talked about ’sniping soldiers’ by Democrats,but himself voted against giving soldiers extra time for relief,while keep repeating ‘Support Our Troops’…
Troops know better,so is Senator Webb,who fought wars before and his son is in IRAQ.
July 15th, 2007 at 11:59 amWebb’s son is in Iraq. Does Graham have any kids in the military? “Nuff said.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:01 pmto webb’s credit he didn’t use his own son’s deployment as ammunition against graham, who asked, “have you been there?”…
bet that was a hard bite of the tongue though…
graham is a pathetic weasel…
July 15th, 2007 at 12:01 pm.
So, the original traditional operational policy has been if you’re gone for a year, you get two years back. And then Webb tries to pass just a one year at home for one year in hell and the Republics won’t allow it to come up for a vote. I don’t see how any human being with an IQ of greater than 70 can think that the Lemming Republics support our troops. Anyone who lives in a state where their Representative is a Republic who filibustered this bill needs to call them and give them hell.
Webb is one of my heroes. My dream team for 2008 is Gore/Webb. That would be quite a team. Gore can take care of our planet and our country and Webb can take care of our foreign policy and our military.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:03 pmIt was particularly telling that Webb had to verbally assert himself to get a word in edgewise, with the toad Russert affording that cracker Graham yet another question and blatherling tortured answer.
“It’s the fourth time he said the same thing” Webb interjected, to no avail. Then, later, “May I speak?!”
Graham could only shake his head at the end of the piece. He was beat — badly — and it showed. But that should be no surprise; there are no further arguments to make.
GET US OUT OF IRAQ IMMEDIATELY.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:03 pmGraham asks Webb, “have you been there”. Has Graham been anywhere other than the heavily fortified Green Zone? Has Graham talked to any service person that was not hand-picked for him to interview? It totally amazes me that these Chickenhawk Republics who have never served a day in the military seem to think that they know how to run things military. Compare Webb’s background to Graham’s and tell me which one you would listen to when it comes to the military.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:05 pm“May I speak?!â€
Geez. He’s got a lot to learn. You don’t ASK for a permission to speak. It’s a sign of weakness. You should be assertive, talk over your opponent and deny him the chance to reply.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:06 pmHuckleberry Graham is the biggest water carrier that Bushco has up on Capitol Hill…what a dick. Does he have any kids over in that shithole? “Nobody wants to talk about the consequences..” he says. This idiots lied us in there, and knew the consequences…Bush said what his intentions were the other day…Thugs create chaos to impose their ideology on the World…he pretends he was talking about the islamic extremists, but really he was letting everyone know what his plans are. Iraq looks like it does BY DESIGN.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:09 pmWhat is the problem with giving equal rest? Why is it that issues that seem to be no-brainer-nearly unanimous votes get partisan? microGram offered no reasonable explaination to oppose the amendment, only empty rhetoric. How would this be a bad thing?
July 15th, 2007 at 12:09 pmGet ‘em Webb. This guy is a pit-bull and I respect him for not shaking Bush’s hand, as Bush has not only changed our view of our own country as a peace-loving, pricipled nation. But he has changed what it means to be a “Christian”. He reflects Christianity from our nation’s perspective to the world, since the international press has printed that he “talks to God”. He’s been terrible for our nation. He’s been terrible for Christianity. He’s been terrible for world. In essence, he’s good for nothin’.
I SALUTE you JIM WEBB. Do not get bought out by the corporatocracy sir !!!
July 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pmWebb’s point is excellent. The Republicans send our soldiers to their deaths while exploiting them politically.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pmIn the pocket of AIPAC, Graham is lying through his teeth.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pmYou should be assertive, talk over your opponent and deny him the chance to reply.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin’
Debate lessons in Kentucky bars, right?
Funny how you dont address the issue.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:10 pm“Geez. He’s got a lot to learn. You don’t ASK for a permission to speak. It’s a sign of weakness. You should be assertive, talk over your opponent and deny him the chance to reply.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin”
That may be the way you Lemming Republics do it. Fortunately the Democrats are a little more civilized. They believe in discourse which means that everyone is given a chance to speak. The reason why the Lemming Republics speak over people is because they have nothing to say and they know it. So, they try to keep their opponent from saying anything and thus making them look like the fools that they are.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:11 pmAnd then you wonder why Democrats are perceived as weak. Ok. It’s your choice.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThe United States is in CHAOS. These two dudes yelling at each other while pumpkin head Timmeh sits there - He should be in jail for this role in leaking the covert CIA agents name - like a referee. This is what Karl Rove and his neo-con pals want. Distraction from their real aims…divide and conquer…Graham is too stupid to know that they want to gut Congress’ ability at any reasonable check of the executive branch, so just like all of those moron voters that pulled the lever for Dubya, Graham is slitting his own throat….again this is by design. CHAOS + FEAR + a planned terror attack = Dictatorial Power for the Bushco Family.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:13 pmSENATOR GRAHAM CALLS FOR ACTION AGAINST AMERICANS WHO DISAGREE WITH BUSH
Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a new target for the administration’s domestic operations — Fifth Columnists, supposedly disloyal Americans who sympathize and collaborate with the enemy.
“The administration has not only the right, but the duty, in my opinion, to pursue Fifth Column movements,” Graham, R-S.C., told Gonzales during Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on Feb. 6.
“I stand by this President’s ability, inherent to being Commander in Chief, to find out about Fifth Column movements, and I don’t think you need a warrant to do that,” Graham added, volunteering to work with the administration to draft guidelines for how best to neutralize this alleged threat. “Senator,” a smiling Gonzales responded, “the President already said we’d be happy to listen to your ideas.”
http://uncapitalist.com/blog/?itemid=1329
July 15th, 2007 at 12:14 pmI whish Webb would have stoo up and knocked Graham out of his seat, and then challenged him to try to get up off of the floor. Sure, his senate career would be damaged, but it would open the door to the Presidency.
Graham is a disgusting, faux-twangy, pasty-faced git.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:14 pmI was told directly by someone with intimate knowledge that the State Department had learned that Rumsfeld planned to FOMENT CHAOS in Iraq from the outset…and that literally all of the apparent failures in Iraq were part of Rumsfeld’s goal prior to the invasion of Iraq. If ETERNAL OCCUPATION and PERMANENT BASES are your ultimate goal, this strategy makes sense – as peace and stability would eliminate the justification for US boots on the ground.
The recent revelation that Rumsfeld actually threatened to fire any General who continued to work on the planning for the aftermath of the invasion (“The future Of Iraq Projectâ€) makes total sense when you consider that the actual goal of Donald Rumsfeld was to “AVOID WINNING.â€
THE FUTURE OF IRAQ PROJECT:
Washington, DC, September 1, 2006 - The National Security Archive is today posting State Department documents from 2002 tracing the inception of the “Future of Iraq Project,” alongside the final, mammoth 13-volume study, previously obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. “The Future of Iraq Project” was one of the most comprehensive U.S. government planning efforts for raising that country out of the ashes of combat and establishing a functioning democracy. The new materials complement previous postings on the Archive’s site relating to the United States’ complex relationship with Iraq during the years leading up to the 2003 invasion:
http://www.gwu.edu/ ~nsarchiv/ NSAEBB/ NSAEBB198/ index.htm
http://www.sourcewatch.org/ index.php?title=Future_of_Iraq_Project
RUMSFELD HAD THIS ADVICE, AND NOT ONLY CHOSE TO IGNORE IT, BUT THREATENED TO FIRE ANYONE WHO CONTINUE TO WORK ON IT IN THE LEAD UP THE WAR.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ archives/ individual/ 2006_09/ 009469.php
July 15th, 2007 at 12:16 pmAnd then you wonder why Democrats are perceived as weak. Ok. It’s your choice.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin
This weak/strong thing is so important for those who cant satisfy a woman. That Freud was a goddamn genius.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:18 pmThe trio,Graham,Joe Lieberman,and Mccain playing the scare game,and if we leave Iraq, they say ,”then the earth will spin the other way around”..
Now Graham and Joe see that their knight Mccain is going nowhere with his campaign,and money is beginning to dry for him…
They will know soon that this hype will not sell anymore.
Making trips to Baghdad to buy ‘one dollar rug’ with big ‘know it all’ statements will also not sell anymore..
July 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pmJim Webb vs. Lieberman on pay per view. Tables, ladders, and chairs. Jim Webb would leave no orifice unfilled. I’d buy it for $39.99.
Jim Webb just doesn’t seem like a guy you want to cross wrongly.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pmGraham asserted that there are lots of men and women signing up for service because they believe in the mission in Iraq. I’m not sure any of them actually know what the mission is anymore; it’s changed so many times. If there are that many men and women willing to sacrifice their lives for…I dunno what really….to act as the police for the Iraqis? Anyway, if so many believe in this war, why is the military having such a hard time with recruitment? The military that do go back, that do resign, have few options.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:19 pmfrom C&L…
i kept waiting for him to say, “they go back for thier buddies.”
but he sure put graham in his place…
Webb: “I’ve been a member of the military more than the Senators been
a Senator.â€
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
July 15th, 2007 at 12:21 pmHey “drinkin’ and stinkin’, if that is your real name. You are the chickensh***. You’re the ones that are screaming the sky is falling and wanting your mommies to hold your hand since terrorists will be in a mall near you as Tony Snow stated. You are the scaredy-cats bit** !!
July 15th, 2007 at 12:22 pmThis interview on MTP made me sick. To be honest I didn’t feel Webb was prepared to counter grahamcracker. I felt Webb lost this debate. He should have used the repug mantra of “support the troops” against them over his amendment defeat last week.
Webb tried…but he wasn’t prepared to say the things necessary.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pmMy 2 cents…
Ace, are you in journalism? I ask that because you always provide facts and documentation, no matter what. The information you provide should qualify you to teach reporting to reporters.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pmI salute you and your references.
Disaster Drills conducted in secret at US Treasury in Florida:
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=3010
Something wicked this way comes.
Currency crisis = Amero as new currency and abolition of the US Constitution.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pmThere you go “spittin on drinkin”!
That’s much better! Agression and assertiveness. Good job.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:24 pm#27, Pat,
July 15th, 2007 at 12:25 pmGraham may have had more words, and said them louder, but on point, Webb clearly won the debate.
It was obvious that both men were angry with each other, but Webb debates with facts; Graham debates with rhetoric.
Last week, South Carolina Senator Lindsay Graham lauded the Bush escalation in Iraq. A veteran of both the armed forces and an April shoppng spree in Baghdad (”I bought five rugs for five bucks”), Graham concluded last Saturday:
“The military part of the surge is working beyond my expectations. We literally have the enemy on the run.”
For the details, see:
July 15th, 2007 at 12:28 pm“Iraq Surge Wins Rave Reviews.”
#
Ace, are you in journalism? I ask that because you always provide facts and documentation, no matter what. The information you provide should qualify you to teach reporting to reporters.
I salute you and your references.
Comment by Marie — July 15, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
Thanks Marie.
I’m no different than you - just an American Patriot trying to save my country from foreign occupation.
I always try to include links - as most people feel that the opinions of published columnists carry more weight - and frequently, the links lead directly to irrefutable facts - which is why you may have noticed that very few people ever disprove the factuality of what I post - and merely resort to attacking the messenger as their only option.
I try not to post anything that I don’t believe to be absolutely truthful.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:29 pmWhile some might think Webb impotent at debating Graham, remember that service families were watching this little dust-up, and they saw who was standing up for the troops, and who was toadying for Bush. Look for his poll numbers to drop with service people after this. Graham as well.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:30 pmhttp://killtown.blogspot.com/ 2005/ 11/ dancing-israelis-on-911.html
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
July 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pmI try not to post anything that I don’t believe to be absolutely truthful.
Plenty of absolutely wild speculation in your last post, though. Amero my a$$…
July 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pmexcuse me, but when i see this:
And then you wonder why Democrats are perceived as weak.
Ok. It’s your choice.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin’
it astounds me that someone with such a name would even think…
oh…
but, it’s like taking advice from a “five dollar whore”…
July 15th, 2007 at 12:31 pmwho could take it serious?
…
Plenty of absolutely wild speculation in your last post, though. Amero my a$$…
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin’ — July 15, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
OK, now it’s your turn. Teach us what you know about the Amero. Provide links and facts to support your contentions.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:32 pmAnd with both Russert and Novak on MTP, it’s like old home week for members of the Plame affair. Great how they didn’t mention word one about it, the scummy bastards.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:34 pm#31 Marie,
I agree…but I’m afraid it’s all about perception with 50 - 60% of voters out there. The repugs know this…that’s why they just throw bullshit out there… because they realize half of it sticks.
Let’s face it, 99% of the TP crowd doesn’t need persuasion. Hell, I’d go to war with Webb if he were leading the charge.
All I saw this morning on the political talk shows were repug, chimpy leg humpers, and whether we were “right” or not…they got their pathetic message out better. Again, this is just my opinion.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:34 pm#38: Just a hypothetical currency for Americas in the Euro style. No-one’s taking it seriously. But from your previous posts I can see that you’re one of those 9/11 conspiracy guys, so I guess you’ve bought into some Amero conspiracy, too. Stay well stocked on tinfoil, dude.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pmWebb is an ass!
July 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pmTHANKS TP!
I knew you wouldn’t let this one pass.
WEBB’s THE MAN!
July 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pmStay well stocked on tinfoil, dude.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin’ —
Found those WMD’s yet?
July 15th, 2007 at 12:39 pmOh, and here’s a link for you ace:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_currency_union
Wikipedia is sort of ok. Found some freaky conspiracy sites when googling for Amero, but they really aren’t worth even linking to.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pm#44: That lie served its purpose at the time.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:40 pmComment by veritas — July 15, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
and you’re a chimpy leg humper…what’s your point?
July 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pmThis interview on MTP made me sick. To be honest I didn’t feel Webb was prepared to counter grahamcracker. I felt Webb lost this debate. He should have used the repug mantra of “support the troops†against them over his amendment defeat last week.
Webb tried…but he wasn’t prepared to say the things necessary.
My 2 cents…
Comment by Pat — July 15, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
I know what you are saying Pat. Webb is the consumate gentlemen, and tried to be more restrained than Graham, who spouted off like he was the reincarnation of General George Patton, asking Webb over and over if he had been to Iraq.
If I had been Webb, and done what he did in combat, I’d have pointed out that out of the two of them, he was the only one who ever fired a shot at the enemy, or had ever been shot AT by the enemy.
Webb needs to take the gloves off. He’s a Junior senator though so I don’t blame him. He’s new to this game.
But out of the two up there, he’s the only one who’s ever really been to war.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:41 pmComment by veritas — July 15, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
that is a name jacking… that is not veritas.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:43 pm.
Graham is a bootlicking thug of the crime family, pure and simple…next.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:43 pm“That lie served its purpose at the time.”
What was the purpose? To kill more americans? That’s been the effect. Now you claim it’s a lie - but your ilk was trumpeting this as an immenent threat.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:43 pmGraham is clueless, and the only way Lindsey Graham can think of to honor the sacrifice of our troops, is to sacrifice more troops.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:44 pmWWDS do? (Would would David Shuster do?)
I thought it was sad that Novak claiming that someone said “no one wants a 3rd Bill Clinton term”.
Russert actually asked who’s saying that and Novak was caught on his heels for a second and admitted “I did….”
Then all of those asshats had a good laugh!
Just friggin’ great, a journalist seemingly quoting somone then admitting to their own words! And they all laughed - the left, the right, the conservative, all.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:47 pmRussert should’ve called him on it right away, but sadly it looked like they’re all in cahoots with each other.
Kinda’ stupid admitting to cheating when the game ain’t over. Might turn the debate into a boxing match, and you really don’t want that.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:48 pmComment by veritas — July 15, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
that is a name jacking… that is not veritas..
Comment by katy — July 15, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
I agree, katy. Even if the real veritas felt that way, she would have explained her reasons for saying that.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pmAnd the discussion about the Plame affair (they just talked about it out here on the west coast) was an exercise of beltway backslapping. Al Hunt said he thinks Novak was treated unfairly - convieniently forgetting to mention that Novak is his child’s godfather. Really ethical journalism…
July 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pmAmero:
http://www.amerocurrency.com/
July 15th, 2007 at 12:49 pmThese repugs who come on here to disrupt are the worst form of vermin imaginable. They cannot win this debate because deep down they know they have chosen political party over what is right in our democracy. I doubt very seriously any of them realize this…as they are too busy mounting chimpy’s leg.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:50 pm#4 Graham is not married and a lot of blogs are ready to out him. He is just another coward gay chickenhawk. Nothing wrong with being gay but like Vitter he is a hypocrite. Also when did we cede responsibility for decisions to a general. My dad served under generals including Bradley and Patton. They are not allknowing beings. They do not run our country.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:50 pmRussert isn’t there to get to the gist of an issue (if he was, he’ would have been hitting Rethug talking points out of the park for the past 7 years). He’s there to provide cover for the Neocons. He is a neocon.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:52 pmI agree, katy. Even if the real veritas felt that way, she would have explained her reasons for saying that.
Comment by Jane E. Schneider — July 15, 2007 @ 12:49 pm
Oh that definately was not Veritas. Veritas said that he (she?) was going to daily kos, because he was sick of the trolls.
That was “Mr. President”, doing what he does best.
Cheating.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:53 pm#4 Graham is not married and a lot of blogs are ready to out him.
Comment by Mike — July 15, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
He looks to me like he could change a 9 dollar bill in threes.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:54 pmGraham states the surge has only been in place for 2 weeks. I wonder how long ago the vast majority– say, at least 80%– of the “surge” troops were deployed to Iraq. My suspicion is the Pentagon and Bush Administration held off on deploying a final small number of these troops to buy them more time and provide them cover while things still continue to go poorly in Iraq. While Bush and company will no doubt try to keep this information under wraps, I’m waiting for the press to start investigating the deployment schedule and asking questions about this.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:55 pmDrinkin’ and stinkin’:
What did you learn about the Amero from the site linked above (which was a link on the Wikipedia page provided by YOU)?
Why don’t you want Americans to consider the Amero to be a possibility?
You apparently did’nt see this CNBC interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98
Does THAT look like a conspiracy theory?
How about this?
http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U&mode=related&search=
Your response is eagerly awaited
July 15th, 2007 at 12:56 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — July 15, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
For future reference, I do know for sure that veritas is a “she.” And I thought the same thing, that the troll (whoever it was) took advantage of veritas’s announcement that she was going to Daily Kos in order to use her name in that “hit and run” comment.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pmI think Lindsey Graham and Ralph Reed would make an absolutely adorable, tres-Butch couple. Graham could dress all S&M, maybe in a pseudo SS uniform, while Reed goes the Tucker Carlson route - sporting a bow tie, short pants, and black socks and shoes.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThe surge has been going since 2003…it was just called something else in the mean time. I think it was called Stay the Course for a long time. Same shit, different day.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pmUnfortunately, Webb did not reply, when Graham kept repeating that the troops keep reenlisting, that that statement is simply not true. Reenlistment rates were down in May and June for the Army. In June, in particular, the Army missed its goal by 1000 soldiers. The Democrats, in particular those Democrats who are supposed to be antiwar, have to be better prepared when they engage a warmonger like Graham. That is, if they are able to get a word in edgewise, with Tim Russert sitting there like a statue, allowing chaos to take over that discussion.
July 15th, 2007 at 12:58 pmhttp://www.ROGUEGOVERNMENT.COM
EXPOSING GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION AND THE NEW WORLD ORDER
U.S. Treasury Holds Disaster Drill in Tampa Bay
07-13-2007
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=3010
July 15th, 2007 at 1:00 pmjayne - funny, i never “pictured” veritas as a female…
huh…
i don’t recall any clues as to either sex actually…
oops? …
July 15th, 2007 at 1:02 pmoops again… sorry about the ‘y’, jane…
July 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pmGraham states the surge has only been in place for 2 weeks.
That is merely the latest example of Bush&Co moving the goal posts. In January, they ALL said, we will know if the surge is working in six months!! In February, it was give the surge a chance. In March, it was signs are that the surge is working, and so it went on — Now that the surge is obviously not working, now that it is time for them to admit they failed, now they have moved the start of the surge from early this year, to June 15th, and have already started to backpedal from the September report (which has already been written) — last week, they have already moved another goal to October - and then the end of the year.
The American public is Charlie Brown, and Bush&Co are Lucy and the football.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:03 pmComment by Mike — July 15, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
I’ll try this post again, because it seems to have disappeared.
I think it’s a little harder to call Graham out on hypocrisy specifically because he is not married. Whereas a strong case can be made that Vitter violated the sanctity of his own marriage while arguing that the “sanctity of marriage” should be preserved at all costs, Graham could not be guilty of that double standard.
While strange, I do not think it is necessarily hypocritical to be opposed to gay marriage while being gay oneself.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:04 pmOne way you know you’re on the losing end of an argument is when you begin to filibuster.
So often Huckleberry simply repeated his talking points while Webb was trying to finish a sentence. He did this not out of passion, but out of a transparent desire to make sure that Webb’s main point - namely that the soldiers and Marines themselves want out of Iraq - was not heard, at least not clearly.
God, I hate Republicans.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:04 pmI think “surge” is starting to get a bad name with the American public. Hadley seemd to really try to avoid using that word today on Face the Nation.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:05 pm#65
Jane,
Since Veritas left the sight… I hope she won’t mind my comment #47 to the author of #42. :-)
July 15th, 2007 at 1:06 pmThis weak/strong thing is so important for those who cant satisfy a woman. That Freud was a goddamn genius.
Comment by Juan C — July 15, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
You’re hilarious!
Webb didn’t say “May I speak?” He said “May I speak!” Something a worksheet in third grade on punctuation use should have clarified for the troll du jour. LOL
July 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmIn a debate, there is no way to prepare for an opponent who will lie - other thant to rebut every assertion with the statement, “that is a lie”. Not very good for getting your message out. This is why Russert is such a failure as a moderator - the moderator’s job is to fact-check and correct improper. erroneous, or disingenuous statements by one side or the other.
Web should have simply knocked Graham to the ground and dared him to try to get off of the floor. If Russert stepped in, Webb should have knocked his ass down, too. I know doing such a thing would not be looked on as “fair play”, but WTF? Sometimes, you have to fight dirty with overwhelming dirty.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmI think Lindsey Graham and Ralph Reed would make an absolutely adorable, tres-Butch couple. Graham could dress all S&M, maybe in a pseudo SS uniform, while Reed goes the Tucker Carlson route - sporting a bow tie, short pants, and black socks and shoes.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
Toss in Ken Melhman and you’ve got a reality show.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:07 pmThey’re certainly a bunch of drama queens.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:08 pmIn a debate, there is no way to prepare for an opponent who will lie - other thant to rebut every assertion with the statement, “that is a lieâ€. Not very good for getting your message out. This is why Russert is such a failure as a moderator - the moderator’s job is to fact-check and correct improper. erroneous, or disingenuous statements by one side or the other.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
I agree. Russert should have corrected that outright lie.
His job is to do that. Hopefully he will in a post interview followup.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pmWeb should have simply knocked Graham to the ground and dared him to try to get off of the floor. If Russert stepped in, Webb should have knocked his ass down, too. I know doing such a thing would not be looked on as “fair playâ€, but WTF? Sometimes, you have to fight dirty with overwhelming dirty.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
ditto
July 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pmHere is something that everyone out there can do to really show support for the troops. The wounded go to Landstuhl medical center in Germany on their way back to the US. Once there, those who are able to naturally want to notify their familes that they are still alive and coming home. BUT, the phones are not free, so there is an urgent need for prepaid american calling cards Send them to: Landstuhl Regional Medical Center// ATTN: MCEUL-CH/Chaplains Office// CMR 402// APO AE 09180. The bush government won’t set up free phones, and the Chaplains office is trying to spread the word that they are running out. Please help if you can.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:10 pmWhen the knocking down part starts, I want you at my side.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:11 pmBy the way folks. Its a tell tale sign that the trolls are beaten, when they resort to using our handles to try and make their points.
They’re shooting blanks.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:12 pmIt was in fact a CONSPIRACY that led to war. A conspiracy of disinformation…willful disinformation…MANUFACTURED disinformation.
Graham would like you all to ignore that, and focus only on the disasterous consequences that would result from changing the “NO WIN” course that was intentionally set in place by the Treasonous bastards in charge.
Clearly there was a conspiracy between Libby and Cheney. Conspiracy is a legal term. Can we all be adults and discuss this and other related conspiracies without being accused of being “Conspiracy Theorists?”
Having a theory about a conspiracy was a prerequisite for Fitzgerald’s investigators. It’s time to praise those who are able to think outside the box and comprehend the means, motive and opportunity that leads to these types of Conspiracies.
It’s time to raise the level of discourse where the term “Conspiracy” is concerned:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/ intell/ library/ reports/ 2005/ franklin_indictment_04aug2005.htm
We’ve all been conditioned to snicker and ridicule when non-professionals offer theories about conspiracies. It’s time to talk about all of these theories and unravel the whole thing.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:12 pm“Graham is not married and a lot of blogs are ready to out him. He is just another coward gay chickenhawk.”
Well, he did go to Iraq to buy rugs after all. I don’t know many straight men who would be worried about interior design on a trip to a country we’re at war over.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:13 pmOh that definately was not Veritas. Veritas said that he (she?)…
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Veritas is a she, and yes, those are definitely name jackings.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:13 pmWebb is a Naval Academy graduate - graduated w/Ollie North, believe it or not.
I once read a piece - I think it was in Esquire - where Webb was a new lt. on the ground in ‘Nam, and addressed his soldiers for the first time. He said: if you tell me that the sky is green, i’ll back you up all the way and believe that the sky is green. but the moment i find out that the sky isn’t green, your ass is mine.
i wish i had officers and NCOs that good when i was in the Navy… i don’t agree w/man 100 percent, but, unlike a lot of politicians, he’s (so far) as good as his word…he at least lives up to the term “semper fidelis” - Always Faithful.
graham? he’s literally a southern cracker…
July 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pmWeb should have simply knocked Graham to the ground and dared him to try to get off of the floor. If Russert stepped in, Webb should have knocked his ass down, too. I know doing such a thing would not be looked on as “fair playâ€, but WTF? Sometimes, you have to fight dirty with overwhelming dirty.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
ditto
Comment by Pat — July 15, 2007 @ 1:09 pm
While I like that scenario it would just get Webb arrested. But I was hoping Webb would ask Grahamcracker if he wanted to step outside.
Graham would have blown a bigger gasket than he already did.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pmOh wait, you say, it was ARMITAGE that was the original leaker of Plame’s identity, right?
And what punishment did Armitage receive?
ARMITAGE KNIGHTED BY THE CROWN:
http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1294
4/25/2006
OMG: Meet Richard Armitage, Knight Commander
Richard Armitage, the number two man at Colin Powell’s state department, has been knighted “for services to US-UK relations.†Presumably this is a reference to his diplomatic exertions on behalf of the invasion of Iraq.
Armitage, one of the innumerable Bush administration graduates of the Reagan era Iran-Contra school of murderous skullduggery, was made a Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George (KCMG).
He was joined on the honours list by several US military officers, including Captain John Peterson.
Peterson’s claim to fame? “Peterson, chief of staff to the commander of the US navy in the Middle East, was awarded a CBE (Commander of the British Empire) for - according to the Pentagon - leading British and American forces “in the campaign to secure Iraqi oil assets†at the start of the 2003 invasion.â€
Absent his outstanding service, Iraq might be a shambles.
The news comes to us courtesy of Chris Floyd, who notes Armitage’s efforts on behalf of US-drug dealing terrorist relations during the Iran-Contra affair, and wonders whether even higher honors might be in store for the future former president, assuming that happy designation ever applies.
“ If Armitage gets this kind of gilded wheeze for mere minioning in some of the most murderous operations of the past half-century, then great googily-moogily, what’s George W. going to get, when he retires, for actually being the trigger-man for the world-convulsing killing spree in Iraq? Not to mention his relentless and ruthless gutting of the U.S. Constitution? What honor would suffice for this sterling service? No mere knighthood or baronage will do; Lizzie will have to adopt him into the royal family or something, name him heir to the throne.
After all, his whole life’s work has been aimed at overthrowing the American Revolution and restoring feudal rule by aristocrats, warlords, religious cranks and simpering courtiers. Why not just bring the whole thing full circle back to Buckingham Palace?â€
Armitage — whose former boss, Powell, was made a Knight Commander of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (KCB), one letter less but one notch above Armitage’s KCMG, for his services in the first Gulf War — was nominated for the honor by British foreign minister Jack Straw, who is no doubt in line for recognition of his own role in facilitating the Mother of All Train Wrecks in Iraq.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:14 pmjayne - funny, i never “pictured†veritas as a female…
huh…
i don’t recall any clues as to either sex actually…
oops? …
Comment by katy — July 15, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Actually, neither did I until she contacted me through our blog and eventually gave me her real name privately. She’s a good person and a good poster. And don’t worry about the ‘y’, I’m sure that people get that mixed up easily because we’re “Wayne and Jane.” :-)
Pat, I assume that veritas will realize that a) her name was hijacked, and b) you were responding to the hijacker. I wouldn’t worry about it.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:15 pmArmitage leaked Plame’s identity…according to the administration. Lookie here:
CHENEY’S DAUGHTER WORKED FOR ARMITAGE !!!
ARMITAGE ASSOCIATES?
Story cached here:
http://64.233.187.104/ search?q=cache:LBJvw5zYj00J:www.upi.com/ view.cfm%3FStoryID%3D28022002-082742-5255r+cheney%27s+daughter+armitage+associates&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Cheney’s daughter offered State Dept. job
By ELI J. LAKE
UPI State Department Correspondent
WASHINGTON, Feb. 28 (UPI) — As Vice President Dick Cheney prepares for his tour of the Arab world next month, the State Department’s Near East Affairs Bureau is wooing his daughter for a high-level post, United Press International has learned.
Earlier this month, the State Department officially offered Elizabeth Cheney-Perry a job as the deputy assistant secretary of state for Near East affairs for regional economic issues, according to State Department and administration officials.
These officials — who spoke on condition of anonymity — tell UPI the new post was created specifically for the vice president’s daughter, adding that she will work primarily on economic development in the Middle East.
Prior to attending law school, Cheney-Perry worked for the State Department and the U.S. Agency for International Development between 1989 and 1993. After 1993, she took a job at Armitage Associates LLP, the consulting firm founded by the current deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage. “She is actually an Armitage person, which a lot of people at the department are,” one senior State Department official told UPI on Thursday.
http://www.alternet.org/story/37490
The Other Cheney Behind the Scenes
By Robert Dreyfuss, The American Prospect. Posted June 13, 2006.
Since 2005, Dick Cheney’s daughter Elizabeth has held a powerful position guiding Middle East policy. And like father, like daughter: Liz is a key player in the push for regime change in Iran and Syria.
At the very heart of U.S. Middle East policy, from the war in Iraq to pressure for regime change in Iran and Syria to the spread of free-market democracy in the region, sits the 39-year-old daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney. Elizabeth “Liz” Cheney, appointed to her post in February 2005, has a tongue-twisting title: principal deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs and coordinator for broader Middle East and North Africa initiatives. By all accounts, it is an enormously powerful post, and one for which she is uniquely unqualified.
During the past 15 months, Elizabeth Cheney has met with and bolstered a gaggle of Syrian exiles, often in tandem with John Hannah and David Wurmser, top officials in the Office of the Vice President (OVP); has pressed hard for money to accelerate the administration’s ever more overt campaign for forced regime change in both Damascus and Teheran; and has overseen an increasingly discredited push for American-inspired democratic reform from Morocco to Iran.
The Bush/Cheney administration has moved quickly to ensure U.S. corporate control over Iraqi resources at least through the year 2007.
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2003/10/101475.shtml
Peter S. Watson, prior to becoming Chairman, President & CEO of the U.S. Overseas Private Investment Corporation, was Counsel to Winthrop Stimpson Putnam & Roberts advising on international business and trade policy matters.
He concurrently served as Senior Advisor to Armitage Associates, L.C. (As did Dick Cheney’s daughter, who was given the newly created post Undersecretary of State for Middle east Development.) National Security Advisor Condolliza Rice proudly admits she is also an Armitage protege.
THIS IS “ARMITAGE INTERNATIONALâ€
Founded in March of 2005:
http://www.armitageinternational.com/news/
July 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pmI know doing such a thing would not be looked on as “fair playâ€, but WTF? Sometimes, you have to fight dirty with overwhelming dirty.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius
Right! Hatch got down to mumbling about “Bin Ladin said…” back to the old talking points! Babbling apoligist bootlicker! That’s what these people are! We all see them as the greedy little wanna be hedge-fund suck-ups that they really are.
“let them win”…. another damn 3 word sales pitch slogan for the “pundits” to parrot for another month!
I hate these people! Amway salesmen and drugstore cowboys!
I wish Webb would have beat his ass for putting words in the mouths of soldiers like that! He should have. I damn sure would have.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:16 pmGraham might be gay, but let’s not equate being gay with being single. Marriage isn’t for everyone, including many straight people. And I’ve known several gays who marry the opposite sex in spite of being homosexual. The two states aren’t related via cause and effect, so we shouldn’t apply them as if they are. Thanks
July 15th, 2007 at 1:17 pmA fine, after pleading guilty, and censure by the Senate, at most. On the other hand, it would catapult Webb and the Dems into the driver’s seat regarding National defense issues. After all, there’s no such thing as bad Press. It would be a positive career move in the final analysis.
Somebody needs to stand up to these thugs. Webb might be the one who can actually do it.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:18 pmHi all. I had to rant there for a second. I’m back in control.
and that is name jacking. veritas wouldn’t say that.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHard to be a “family values” type when you don’t have a family of your own. there’s also the fact that he doesn’t have any skin in the game (in the form of offspring).
The real reason I think Graham is considered gay, is because he looks just like a cooter.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:24 pmComment by willyloman — July 15, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Hey there, willy. Where’dja rant?
July 15th, 2007 at 1:25 pmJane: 94. I wanted to see Webb smake Hatch around for putting words in the soldiers mouth.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:26 pmGraham might be gay,…
Comment by unbelievable
That’s my bet, and has also been rumored.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:27 pm(not that there’s anything wrong with that)
heads up, TP… good advice for hillary here…
Rachel Maddow’s Campaign Asylum: Stop Being STuPiD On Iraq
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
good points for all to consider…
July 15th, 2007 at 1:29 pm.
Ah. Willy, I guess I didn’t really consider that as “out of control.”
I’m going to check out the baseball game for a little while. Guard my name until I get back! :D
July 15th, 2007 at 1:29 pmHard to be a “family values†type when you don’t have a family of your own.
That is something a Republican would say…
And it’s not true. Families can be defined a number of different ways. It’s essentially a type of social group.
I don’t care for Graham’s politics but to assume he must be gay because he is single is unfair to stereotype all single adults as gay, which leads to divisiveness and ostracization.
there’s also the fact that he doesn’t have any skin in the game (in the form of offspring).
So? I have no children, but I very much care that other people’s children be treated like valuable human beings. As a result, I oppose sending them to the war. Don’t need to have kids to value them.
The real reason I think Graham is considered gay, is because he looks just like a cooter.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
He is effeminate. Maybe he is gay. I’m not arguing that point. I’m simply saying that his being single does not make him gay.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:32 pmGraham might be gay, but let’s not equate being gay with being single.
Comment by unbelievable — July 15, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
I dont’ think that was the comparison.
I think it has to do with his limp wrist, his effeminate mannerisms, and his lisp.
:|
Not to mention his recent appearance on “Queer eye for the Straight Guy”.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:37 pmThe real reason I think Graham is considered gay, is because he looks just like a cooter.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
Cooter?
ahh, a small tree dwelling marsupial that feeds mostly on foilage and berries.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmIf ou could show that Graham’s secret homsexuality was subjecting him to political blackmail, that might be a story. Otherwise I don’t thnk it has a lot of relevance to today’s discussion.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmWhat are “family values” anyway?
So far it’s helping companies make money off “No Child Left Behind” while the kids are getting further and further down the list of industrialized nations educations rankings.
and keeping 4.1 children without health care for the insurance industry.
and sending their parents off to occupy Iraq for oil companies.
and teaching them that gays can’t serve in the military because they are “evil”.
and privatizing aid thru the “faith based inniciatives” that allow church organizations to skim money off the top while forcing needy people to come to their church to pick up the aid.
and of course, “shock and awe”.
Those the “family values” you are talking about?
July 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmI dont’ think that was the comparison.
It sure sounded like it.
I think it has to do with his limp wrist, his effeminate mannerisms, and his lisp.
Not to mention his recent appearance on “Queer eye for the Straight Guyâ€.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — July 15, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
Is that you Worfeus?
July 15th, 2007 at 1:39 pmahh, a small tree dwelling marsupial that feeds mostly on foilage and berries.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
No. Cooter is the mechanic from Dukes of Hazard. and the long lost brother of Scooter.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:40 pmSo far it’s helping companies make money off “No Child Left Behind†while the kids are getting further and further down the list of industrialized nations educations rankings.
Ding Ding Ding! :D
I am blown away by how bad the system is. It really has become all about punishment and subjegation. Which, they call nurture…
And NONE of thr Democratic candidates seem to want to change it!
Those the “family values†you are talking about?
Comment by willyloman — July 15, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Just lipstick on a pig…
July 15th, 2007 at 1:46 pmSICKO!
Dog and pony show? That’s right.
It appears that dogs in this country have better health care than soldiers.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:48 pmDid Military and Media Mislead Us?
July 15th, 2007 at 1:53 pmIs that you Worfeus?
Comment by unbelievable — July 15, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Whats a Worfeus?
:D
July 15th, 2007 at 1:54 pmNo. Cooter is the mechanic from Dukes of Hazard. and the long lost brother of Scooter.
Comment by willyloman — July 15, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
LoL.
Oh THAT cooter!
Of course, he reminds me more of Roscoe. Doing Boss Hoggs bidding.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:55 pm#44: That lie served its purpose at the time.
Comment by Drinkin’ and stinkin’ — July 15, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
The thug that you are. The thug that you are.
Thuglicks = Traitors
Thuglicks = Street Thugs
Thuglicks = 2-bit Street Gangsters
Thuglicks Belong in Jail
You are America’s domestic enemy, as much as the ‘terrists’ are America’s foreign enemy. Men died for that lie, you chickenhawk little trick. You will burn burn burn, for your sins sins sins. Even your own hack ‘party’ and it’s bible thumpin christofascist coalition can tell you that.
You believe that the lives and limbs of American soldiers, as well as those of innocent Iraqis’, are worth American glory, wealth and empire. That is why you’re sick. Street thugs and street hoods think innocent lives are worth the glory of, and dominance by, their ‘own’ neighborhood over other ‘hoods’. You and your ilk are 2-bit street hoods substituting nation for neighborhood. The most vile part about you is that even though this is true, you believe yourself to be superior to the street hood and the organized criminal. You are not. You are worse.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:55 pmIt must be a true ordeal for Mr Webb, a true professional, to even
July 15th, 2007 at 1:56 pmsit at the same table with whats his name. The contrast between
the 2 is alarming. A Professional Militarily man, and a water boy.
It appears that dogs in this country have better health care than soldiers.
Comment by John Gilpins — July 15, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
Because veternarians generally care about their patients, and don’t have to please large insurance companies nor cater to profits of medical boards.
You know, that’s an excellent analogy. A dog in the country does have it better off in terms of quality health care than a soldier serving his or her country. I’m glad my cats can get great care, because I value them, but should it be better than mine?
Sad…. Good point John.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pmI have never seen Graham so unhinged.
It is obvious by the way he talked over Webb that he does not want the truth to get out about what is happening in Iraq.
Webb is just the man to get that truth out.
Again I have never seen Graham so out of control.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pmUmmmm…settle down there, big fella.
“That is something a Republican would say…”
No. It’s not. It’s the equivalent of what we liberals say about chickenhawks, and on a regular basis. And it’s true.
I’m not saying, nor have I, nor would I, that being single in any way denotes homosexuality. I’m all for gay marriage. Being single or being married has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
My point: Why would someone who hasn’t, for whatever reason, made a commitment to family, stand on a soap box and rant about “Family Values”? Kind of like priests dispensing marital advice (in this example, to someone who isn’t even Catholic) - it might be okay, if that’s where you place your trust, but I would think that a person of your peer group and with experience in the subject would have more accurate insights into the subject (don’t frame this as an attack on catholiscism - it ain’t).
As for children: yeah - we all care about kids. We all love dogs too. But we love our dogs best. This is where Webb should be given full faith and credit as a politician: He has played the game and he has skin in the game. Do you honestly think that you care as much about Webb’s son as he does?
Again, I’m not saying that if you’re single, you’re gay.
BTW - you’re waaaay oversensitive on this issue.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:58 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — July 15, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
:| gave it away :D
How are you?
July 15th, 2007 at 1:58 pmIt’s good to see some fire in the 2006 class of Democrats. I have no doubt that passion like Webb’s will lead the 111th Congress to do some real good and try to repair the damage caused by Bush and his corporatist cronies.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:58 pmGraham looked like he was about to blow a gasket.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:59 pm:| gave it away :D
How are you?
Comment by unbelievable — July 15, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
Hush child.
I like being here.
July 15th, 2007 at 1:59 pmOf course, he reminds me more of Roscoe. Doing Boss Hoggs bidding.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
I see I am up against a learnered man! You are well versed in your redneck pop-culture, sir. I stand one-upped.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:00 pmI’m glad you’re in here kicking troll butt and taking voter registration numbers.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:01 pmI see I am up against a learnered man! You are well versed in your redneck pop-culture, sir. I stand one-upped.
Comment by willyloman — July 15, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
July 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pmNow what Bo and Luke didn’t know was that Roscoe was down by the Tigris waiting to trap the General Petreaus in sand pit…
UPDATE: Commenters Ann and Katy note Webb’s son has served in Iraq…
:-) …eek! …
and i wondered the same thing, but didn’t want to blow his cover…
July 15th, 2007 at 2:03 pmi like having him here…
Of course, he reminds me more of Roscoe. Doing Boss Hoggs bidding.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
And Joe Lieberman is Flash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Sheriff_Rosco_P._Coltrane
July 15th, 2007 at 2:04 pmI don’t know if this is appropriate, and I hope it isn’t taken the wrong way by Tired of Fighting….
but since his very personal posting I thought it would be respectful to visit his fallen friends memorial.
I found it on the net, and feel that if any of you feel the same way, here is the link…
http://www.legacy.com/ Soldier/ Story.aspx?PersonID=3130083
I am so glad Tired of Fighting posted here. Bush keeps us from seeing the tributes to the fallen on tv and in the papers because he knows it will make these “commas†real people and that will hasten this countries resolve to ending this.
It is in the spirit of putting a face with the name that I give you this link. In hopes that the reality of it sinks into some. Out of respect for the man that I did not know and his friend, Tired of Fighting, I hope this doesn’t overreach my limits.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:04 pmMeanwhile, Boss Hogg was busy dismantling the constitution, and cooking up a vat of ma’s homemade cider…
July 15th, 2007 at 2:04 pm…then! all of a sudden, Mayor Cheney came in and shot Luke in the face (cus he was drunk) and said “ehhhh. so there. ehhhhh.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:06 pmI am so glad Tired of Fighting posted here. Bush keeps us from seeing the tributes to the fallen on tv and in the papers because he knows it will make these “commas†real people and that will hasten this countries resolve to ending this.
Comment by willyloman — July 15, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
I just hope real soldiers came in and saw what the right wing thinks is funny.
Perhaps now I understand why TP didn’t delete those, or the other racial comments made by Mr. President, our resident inbred.
Because sometimes, its best to just let them talk, and let the rest of the world see what they’re really all about.
Sometimes, their own words can do more damage to them then we ever could.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:07 pmAnd Joe Lieberman is Flash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/ Sheriff_Rosco_P._Coltrane
Comment by barfly — July 15, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
You know you’re right?
Its an identical likeness.
July 15th, 2007 at 2:08 pmHis name is Enos, hyuck, hyuck, hyuck
July 15th, 2007 at 2:09 pmUmmmm…settle down there, big fella.
Not big, not a fella, and not unsettled.
No. It’s not. It’s the equivalent of what we liberals say about chickenhawks, and on a regular basis. And it’s true.
No it is exactly what conservatives do. I grew up in a family of them. They stereotype people who are not in the mainstream.
It’s not the same as calling someone a chickenhawk, not at all. It’s more like calling a poor person uneducated. They might be, but they aren’t necessarily.
I’m not saying, nor have I, nor would I, that being single in any way denotes homosexuality. I’m all for gay marriage. Being single or being married has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
But your post equated his singlehood with his being gay by including it in the determination of his being gay. You listed it as evidence. See where that goes?
Glad you feel that way. It didn’t come across that way in your original post, and I pointed it out as a clarification.
My point: Why would someone who hasn’t, for whatever reason, made a commitment to family, stand on a soap box and rant about “Family Values� Kind of like priests dispensing marital advice (in this example, to someone who isn’t even Catholic) - it might be okay, if that’s where you place your trust, but I would think that a person of your peer group and with experience in the subject would have more accurate insights into the subject (don’t frame this as an attack on catholiscism - it ain’t).
First Amendment. You think you shouldn’t have a right to criticize the occupation of Iraq because you don’t run an Army?
As for children: yeah - we all care about kids. We all love dogs too. But we love our dogs best. This is where Webb should be given full faith and credit as a politician: He has played the game and he has skin in the game.
I don’t do faith. And I don’t think his service nor his sons discredit those of us who have neither. It’s his point of view from reason that I value. Because there are people who have served and they are for the war from a position of faith. I like that Webb’s going on reason, and not gut, regardless of how much skin he has in teh game.
Do you honestly think that you care as much about Webb’s son as he does?
Where did I say that I did? And how does that make his opposition to the war any more valid than mine? It’s a slippery slope.
Again, I’m not saying that if you’re single, you’re gay.
It sounded that way, so I simply gave my two cents. You don’t have to like it, but making ad hominem insults really isn’t necessary.
BTW - you’re waaaay oversensitive on this issue.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — July 15, 2007 @ 1:58 pm
You’re projecting. I was simply making a point.
You know because you have skin in that game? No? Hmmm…. Then take your own advice. LOL
July 15th, 2007 at 2:10 pm