ThinkFast: July 17, 2007
ThinkFast: July 17, 2007
War supporters responded yesterday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) call for an up-or-down vote on Iraq withdrawal legislation by threatening a permanent Iraq filibuster. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell proposed “an automatic 60-vote threshold for all key Iraq amendments.”
Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. “reached a tentative agreement for the purchase of Dow Jones & Co. at its original $5 billion offer price. The deal will be put to the full Dow Jones board this evening for its approval, said people familiar with the situation.”
“Former Republican congressman J.D. Hayworth said Monday that he has sent documents to the Justice Department in response to its investigation of disgraced fundraiser Jack Abramoff.”
20.5 million: Number of decisions to classify government secrets last year. But the Information Security Oversight Office said “more than 1 in 10 documents it reviewed lacked a basis for classification, ‘calling into question the propriety‘ of the decisions to place them off limits to public disclosure.”
“The Pentagon approves disputed costs on Iraq contracts at a much higher rate than on military contracts as a whole, Defense Department records show. Through last October, almost two-thirds of costs challenged by Pentagon auditors as inflated, erroneous or otherwise improper — more than $1 billion — were eventually approved by project managers.”
Children in Iraq “are much worse off than they were a year ago, and they certainly are worse off than they were three years ago,” said a senior U.N. official yesterday. He added that “gains made shortly after the United States toppled Hussein’s government in 2003…had been lost.”
“The Senate health committee is scheduled on Wednesday to consider a bill that would for the first time allow the Food and Drug Administration to regulate cigarettes.” Health advocates are predicting that, “after more than a decade of debate, this may be the year tobacco regulation is made law.”
“Sixteen detainees were transferred out of the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to authorities in Saudi Arabia, Pentagon officials announced yesterday, amid discussions within the Bush administration about how to close the facility.”
And finally: “Anyone who has ever wanted to buy gold bullion, walk on heated sidewalks or watch a flock of seagulls will find plenty to love” in the $56 billion budget Republicans pushed through the Wisconsin state Assembly last week. Similarly, the Democratic plan that passed the state Senate included “$10 for pictures frames and furniture in the Pensaukee town hall.” The spokesman for Gov. Jim Doyle (D) called the budget priorities “sad.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Still wondering why this story is not getting any time? 45 pct of foreign insurgents are Saudi, none of them seem to come from Iran….
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/4968962.html
And will the B2 bombers be dropping ‘regime change’ on Riyadh soon?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:04 amOoh can’t talk about Israel, can’t talk about Saudi?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:05 am“The Pentagon approves disputed costs on Iraq contracts at a much higher rate than on military contracts as a whole, Defense Department records show.
Got to love that Bush administration fiscal responsibility. **barf**
Neocon definition of patiotism : Unquestioning obedience to corporate interests.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:09 am“Former Republican congressman J.D. Hayworth said Monday that he has sent documents to the Justice Department in response to its investigation of disgraced fundraiser Jack Abramoff.â€
This pissant is just where he should be; out of office.
J.D., do everyone a favor & STFU.
You’re out of office, bwaaaaaaaaaaah!
July 17th, 2007 at 9:11 am“a permanent Iraq filibuster”
Isn’t this what they were doing in the first place? Does anyone actually believe they ever intended otherwise?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:11 am“Still wondering why this story is not getting any time? 45 pct of foreign insurgents are Saudi, none of them seem to come from Iran….”
Why are you wondering. That famous “liberal” press out there doesn’t want the world to know that Bush’s friends are funding and providing fighters to kill Americans? That would be very embarrassing to Bush and might put us in a position where we will have to call for the bombing of Saudi Arabia.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:13 amStill wondering why this story is not getting any time? 45 pct of foreign insurgents are Saudi, none of them seem to come from Iran….
http://www.chron.com/ disp/ story.mpl/ world/ 4968962.html
And will the B2 bombers be dropping ‘regime change’ on Riyadh soon?
Comment by TerrytheTurtle
But don’t ya know the saudi’s are our friends, Terry?
Haven’t you seen the hugging and kissing pictures of Preznit Bush and the Saudi Prince?
The Bush family even “adopted” Bandar Bush as one of their own.
Facts have nothing to do with it?
How dare you post facts.
/highest sarcasm tag possible
July 17th, 2007 at 9:15 am=D
Reid: I fully support any initiative by Congress that effectively “shuts down the government” until the war is resolved to end. Given the momentum the war machine has it might be the only logical thing to do.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:15 amAs long as people like Sandy Burgler can pilfer classified documents with a slap on the wrist, it really doesn’t matter how many are classified.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:17 amNancy Pelosi:
DO YOUR JOB!
IMPEACH
July 17th, 2007 at 9:17 am“Children in Iraq “are much worse off than they were a year ago, and they certainly are worse off than they were three years ago,†said a senior U.N. official yesterday.”
And that is all because of al Qaeda. If it wasn’t for al Qaeda everything would be peachy keen and hunky dory in Iraq.
I wonder how these people are ever going to recover from what we have done to them. One third of their citizens are living in other countries with only the poor left behind. They have no jobs, they live in squalid living conditions, they have no hope and they have no future. At least they have no hope and no future as long as we are there occupying their country.
Get mad, fight back, call your representatives and let them know that we do not want to be a permanent occupier of a country that hates us. Let them know that we have no right to steal the natural resources of the country we occupy.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:19 amLooks like the self styled Mr. President got an early start jacking veritas’ name. What a sad little man.
I am curious why the republicans think they can shut the government down. Didn’t they flame the dems for even considering a filibuster?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:21 am#9 Comment was not me….name jacking in progress. Don’t believe anything coming from this moniker now! TP – get with the program and shut down this obvious name jacker immediately.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:21 amHi Katie and TP Buddies!
July 17th, 2007 at 9:22 amI see that someone loves my name so well that they’ve decided to namejack it! It’s not me….and I love your comments here this morning. I hope that TP will check the IP address and realize that it’s now me. They can, you know.
Since we can’t seem to get rid of the trolls on this board, how about we start challenging them to debate. I’ll start.
OK, trolls, do you think it is OK for the US to steal Iraq’s oil? Just in case you don’t know what is going on, the US is trying to get the Iraqi government to pass a so-called “reconciliation” bill that splits the oil profits of Iraq amongst the Sunni’s, Shias, Kurds and…the USA and Great Britain. And the share our government wants for the USA and Great Britain is 70% of their oil profits for 30 years.
So, please tell us why we have the right to one penny of Iraq’s oil profits.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:23 amname jacking in progress. the other “veritas” is not me.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:23 am
July 17th, 2007 at 9:23 amTP: NOW IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO CATCH THE NAME JACKER. THIS IS NOT ME USING THE VERITAS MONIKER! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.
veritas sez:
Don’t worry, veritas…we weren’t fooled. ^_^
July 17th, 2007 at 9:23 amHi veritas..
Anyone who posts here regularly would instantly know that was not you. They really are stupid if they think we would be fooled.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:24 amHey Katie! I can’t believe it’s still going on here. I’m just glad that I was posting at the same time; in fact, this troll and I are so in sync (yuk!) that we were posting at the exact same time. Now TP has the opportunity to do something credible about the name jacking since they have to see it and can check the IP numbers.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:25 amKatie sez:
Good luck, Katie. All the trolls capable of anything resembling debate fled this site long ago…all that are left are the blog equivalent of chattering monkeys flinging their own feces about.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:26 amAs long as people like Sandy Burgler can pilfer classified documents with a slap on the wrist, it really doesn’t matter how many are classified.
Comment by veritas — July 17, 2007 @ 9:17 am
Is this a namejacking?
In any case, Burger did not “pilfer” classified documents. He made and kept copies for his personal use, then destroyed the copies. The originals were never removed from the archives.
Of course the Burger situation provides critical support to Republicans with their fiercely held belief that two wrongs do indeed make a right, just so long as your “team” is “winning”.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:26 amTripmaster, Katie: I love you guys and I’m happy that you weren’t fooled by this imposter. Since TP has the IP address of both of us, they can now see how the real namejacker on these threads actually is and finally do something about it.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:26 amA permanent Iraq fillibuster? Mr. McConnell, you’re kidding! Go on, son! Please remind the American people about the Bush/Republican war all day every day from now on until November, 2008. What kind of blustery nonsense, posing as parliamentary strategy, is this? I hope Mr. Reid says–good idea, let’s do it.
Charles
July 17th, 2007 at 9:26 amveritas sez:
Not to rain on your parade, veritas, but don’t hold your breath. The only posts TP censors are 9/11 Truth posts.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:27 amVerbalkint: You KNOW it’s a name jacking. For openers, I wouldn’t be attempting to hijack the thread and divert the conversation to something this obviously obtuse. Thanks for noticing though that the post is not me.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:27 amTripmaster: I really don’t understand why anyone would censor the truth – as ugly and distasteful as it may really be. The fact that they would do such a thing has me totally baffled.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:28 amI only hope Mr. Ried does indeed say good idea, as long as you are willing to stay up and keep talking. We will see how the republicans do without nappy time.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:29 amMitch McConnell is digging his own political grave and the graves of his fellow Republicans. Let him filibuster away. Let him introduce proposals designed to make any change in Iraq He is obviously blind to the following:
Americans are sick of Iraq.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:29 amAmericans are tired of Iraq body counts.
Americans want out of Iraq NOW.
Americans have declared the war in Iraq to be their number one issue in poll after poll.
I have a very busy day but I’m going to hang around just to see if TP uses this obvious opportunity to ensure the safety of our screen names from namejacking.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:30 amHi Molly! Can you imagine having to watch old crotchety Mitch McConnell up there for hours flapping his jacks in a filibuster. It would become pure comedy.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:30 amSorry, I hit the send button before I was finished.
Since Mitch McConnell insists on hitching his cart to a dead horse, let him. The GOP will feel the effects come next election.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:30 amWar supporters responded yesterday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) call for an up-or-down vote on Iraq withdrawal legislation by threatening a permanent Iraq filibuster. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell proposed “an automatic 60-vote threshold for all key Iraq amendments.â€
And the trolls still seem to think that the low approval numbers for Congress represent a referendum on Democrats.
Folks, next time you hear a troll crow about the low approval numbers of Congress, remind them why that approval is so low.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:31 amWow, I thought the GOP believed in an “Up Or Down” vote?
They give Hypocrites a bad name…
July 17th, 2007 at 9:31 amVeritas,
the regulars here knew immediately that #9 was not you, but an imposter.
TP must install a registration system or some method of determining the name-jackers and banning them from further posts.
TP — are you listening? Doing something about it?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:33 amI don’t understand why you are allowing your site to be corrupted this way.
Krazny: BTW, I enjoy your posts very much and, yes, it appears that Mr. P’s little game of name jacking is being focused in my direction today. Maybe it’s because it’s the only way this troll can elicit a direct response from me in any way. Maybe he’s got the hots for my moniker? I don’t see why he would since it means “truth” and that’s the last thing he’s capable of…
July 17th, 2007 at 9:33 am“a permanent Iraq filibusterâ€
Isn’t this what they were doing in the first place? Does anyone actually believe they ever intended otherwise?
Comment by Wilco
What drives me absoloutly nuts is the fact that the Democrats rolled over like lapdogs for 6 f*cking years and never supported even one filibuster attempt by those who had the guts to try, while the constitution andthe American people were getting raped by the Republicans. ( not just the Pages )
Yet filibuster is all the Republicans do when in minority.
Republicans, tho they be a$$holes and fascist corporate lapdogs at least know how to use the rules to their advantage.
The democrats hobble themselves and are wimps.
Just look at Pelosi pulling impeachment, the greatest remedy for abuse off the table, thus castrating any power of themajority and the biggest threat that could be used to bring Bush to compliance to the Rule of Law and the Constitution.
The Dems are the best option for the return of Rule of Law to this country, at this point, but it looks like they sabotage themselves than do what’s right, to me.
Both parties drive me up the wall because neither seem to really have the best interests of the county at heart. They are all f*ckwits ( with few exceptions )
July 17th, 2007 at 9:33 am“The Senate health committee is scheduled on Wednesday to consider a bill that would for the first time allow the Food and Drug Administration to regulate cigarettes.†Health advocates are predicting that, “after more than a decade of debate, this may be the year tobacco regulation is made law.â€
Expect this bill to die a quick and quiet death. The tobacco lobby is far too strong to allow this to happen.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:33 amHypocrite doesn’t do justice to these squealing pigs called Repukes.
They piss & moan about how bad the Dems are without ever admitting they did the same thing for the last 6 years.
Hey McConnell, are you ready to filibuster for the next 15 months? Good! We’ll take your bet & raise you…
July 17th, 2007 at 9:34 amTo veritas –
I remember the Watergate hearings and how they kept us all entertained during the summer of 1973. One of the stars of the show was Senator Sam Ervin, a self-described “country lawyer” from North Carolina. He didn’t suffer fools gladly, and he had a gift for skewering right through the BS he was being fed by the testimony of Nixon’s minions. America saw what was going on, and they didn’t like what they saw.
Yeah — we could use another show like that one. Let McConnell rave on. It will do nothing for his case. Oh, he may delay procedure, but he won’t make any sales.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:34 amHi Marie! Well, I haven’t seen another bogus post by faux veritas, aka Mr. P, as yet but it’s clear that they need a registration system. Many of my friends have given up posting here for that very reason. It’s impossible to carry on any form of intelligent repartee when you have to wade and sift through their nonsense.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:35 amTMM at #25
July 17th, 2007 at 9:35 amYou are right – TP has no problem censoring/eliminating posts relative to the 9/11 but the namejackers and the vile posts they submit are allowed to continue with impunity.
Let McConnell rave on. It will do nothing for his case. Oh, he may delay procedure, but he won’t make any sales.
Comment by missmolly — July 17, 2007 @ 9:34 am
Yes, indeed, I hope that Harry Reid will say “filibuster on” and the Rethugs will be hoist on their pitard. Yes, indeedy-do!
July 17th, 2007 at 9:36 am20.5 million: Number of decisions to classify government secrets last year. But the Information Security Oversight Office said “more than 1 in 10 documents it reviewed lacked a basis for classification, ‘calling into question the propriety‘ of the decisions to place them off limits to public disclosure.â€
More steps taken by Chimpy’s Orwell-inspired government to insure that the American public is denied access to vital information.
Rigorous information control is essential to the proper maintenance of a police state. Rigorous information availability is essential to the proper maintenance of a free state. Which path have we chosen?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:37 amI don’t watch much television these days other than movies and The Closer (TNT) but I would even pop some popcorn and invite the neighborhood in for this dog & pony filibuster show. The Rethugs best and brightest buffoons will all be on parade.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:37 amComment by Kay — July 17, 2007 @ 9:34 am
Thanks for the link, Kay.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:38 am“Republicans, tho they be a$$holes and fascist corporate lapdogs at least know how to use the rules to their advantage.
The democrats hobble themselves and are wimps.”
You got that right. The Democrats now have an excellent weapon to use to make these lying sack of sh1t members of the Bush Crime Family honor subpoenas and tell the truth. And that weapon is Inherent Contempt. Actually, it is probably the only weapon they have. And are they using it? Not as far as I can tell. Why? I haven’t a clue. I an starting to believe that the Democrats are incapable of leading. If they keep on with the course they have chosen, I’m sure more and more people out there will come to the same conclusion.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:40 amInvestors will now be wondering if the Dow Jones average will be fair and balanced, or if it goes up, is it really going down…
July 17th, 2007 at 9:40 amMore top-notch stuff, ace. Thanks!
Keep bringing the truth!
July 17th, 2007 at 9:41 am#
20.5 million: Number of decisions to classify government secrets last year. But the Information Security Oversight Office said “more than 1 in 10 documents it reviewed lacked a basis for classification, ‘calling into question the propriety‘ of the decisions to place them off limits to public disclosure.â€
More steps taken by Chimpy’s Orwell-inspired government to insure that the American public is denied access to vital information.
Rigorous information control is essential to the proper maintenance of a police state. Rigorous information availability is essential to the proper maintenance of a free state. Which path have we chosen?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — July 17, 2007 @ 9:37 am
#
TripMaster: This Oversight Committee was also barred from entering the West Wing to invetigate known breaches in national security. Wouldn’t you think that this, combined with the fact that this Committee is questioning the validity of the classification process in general become an impeachment issue based on breaching national security by Bush/Cheney?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:41 amMarie –
I agree with you that some sort of registration to prevent name-jacking is definitely in order. I would like to retain the ability to choose my own handle (I chose “missmolly” because I miss Molly Ivins, and I wish she was still here to comment on all of today’s absurdities), but once chosen, I should be required to log on with it and a password, and anybody not able to log on with it shouldn’t be able to use it. That way everybody would know that a comment by “missmolly” would be from me.
Other sites publish comments with a handle made from one’s e-mail address. I won’t post there. It’s a pity anonymity is necessary in today’s world, but I need to protect my e-mail from spammers and flamers.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:42 amKatie: Yes, the inherent contempt issue should be raised right now in Congressional committee.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:42 amI don’t see why he would since it means “truth†and that’s the last thing he’s capable of…
Comment by veritas
______________________________
Hi-jacking the name “veritas” is as close to the truth that Mr. President (the troll or the official) probably can or dares to get.
I, like most of the regular TP posters, knew that the offending post was not you, veritas. In fact, I would not be surprised if we all recognized the Mr. President troll in his attempted disguise.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:43 amMorning, Ace! You gave us a lot of research to do yesterday. Thanks a bunch! I’ve shared it all with many of my equally-concerned comerades in the fight to save this democracy.
Thanks for some new stuff, today! After perusing the threads from yesterday, I am chagrinned to see that the Republic tactic of “eating your own” is occurring within our group of truthseekers here at TP. It’s bad enough to have to fight our way through the troll detritus each day in order to discuss things intelligently, along with the name jacking but when members of our own group begin nit-picking each other, then we are falling into the Republican trap.
What I’m saying is that Republicans are obviously in “lockstep” and synchronicity of mindset; however, Dems and Independents (lefties for lack of a better description) are a very diverse group of free thinkers and, as such, have differing opinions relative to the political landscape. Much more than lockstep Republicans. Of course, free speech is another component of the mix which the left respects so I am neither suggesting that we curb our right to free speech but, instead, respect and not attack each other for our differing viewpoints on specific issues….especially when we are all on “team truth”.
I was sorry to see the dialogue between you and Willyloman hit the skids yesterday because you are both valuable to this ongoing truth discussion.
In as articulate a way as I know possible, what I am saying is that we should honor each other’s likenesses as well as our diversity and it hurt me to see Willyloman begin to attack you for the wealth of information you provide to each of us.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:49 amComment by missmolly — July 17, 2007 @ 9:42 am
All TP would need to do is adopt Slash as their site code. User registration, comment rating, and threaded comments are all standard. It’s open-source and free, and TP could set this up on a weekend if it wanted to.
So, you need to ask yourself…why doesn’t TP want to?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:49 amWhy does mr p have to show her/his/its juvenile behavior so blatantly? We all know the issues with self-loathing and low self esteem, which is evident.
Guess this is what happens when trolls are left alone in their mom’s basement with only her undies to keep you company, right?
July 17th, 2007 at 9:55 amKatie: Yes, the inherent contempt issue should be raised right now in Congressional committee.
Comment by veritas
Agreed
All the tools available should be used.
Inherent contempt, perjury citations and especially,impeachment should be put back on the table.
At this point, I have little faith in even the Democrats doing what’s right. Hope yes, faith no.
It may have to come down to the people getting their states to petition for a new constitutional convention, as per article V of the Constitution.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:59 amIf we can force at least 2/3 of the states to petition, a new constitutional convention has to be formed.
And finally: “Anyone who has ever wanted to buy gold bullion, walk on heated sidewalks or watch a flock of seagulls
Well, I’ve never really wanted to watch a flock of seagulls, but I normally like listening to them.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:02 amVeritas,
July 17th, 2007 at 10:04 amWhat a small,insignificant person you must be ! How long have you been holding back on that “News Breaking” tidbit? What a cute play on Bergers last name! Did you think it up all by yourself? It goes to show with your little whiny comment, that has nothing to do with the blog on hand ,that you Regressive Right Wing Republicans have nothing new to bring to the table! Same ole crap,different day!
Comment by Pee Wee,from Intercourse,Pa — July 17, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Here’s Mr. President, to lay waste to this thread with rapid-fire posts under different names – all via Megaphone.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:06 amListen. we all know that the Mr. President troll, aka valianthehater, CT_V1, CaptainKirk, TheJoker, Jake, …etc., is just one person who has infiltrated this blog to derail, not discuss/debate. It also appears that this particular troll has come on strong during the summer months, which leads me to believe that is a teenager, out of school with way too much time on it’s hands.
That being said, cutting and pasting, or posting as, war heroes is just plain deplorable, especially fallen ones. “Jake” has been outted, as well as “Mr.President”. No more proof needs be presented, but I feel TP should do something to prevent any further derailment. I am for debate, and enjoy learning opposing viewpoints (see my discussions with Exley), but to have threads infested with nonsense, as well as ad hominem attacks, that offer nothing, and then, to have the accused troll degrade a fallen hero, just pi$$es me off to no end, and is the reason I’ve limited my posts here, just recently.
I hope, at least, the moderators will look at our requests, and entertain the idea of registrating, or at least, banning the ever name changing troll for posting under numerous names, as well as it’s propensity to namejack. It’s that simple.
Until then,
July 17th, 2007 at 10:07 amI’m off!
Permanent Iraq Fillibuster. The republicans can’t be that dumb. This first go around (if it happens today/tomorrow) will show all of congress just how fed up the American people are with the half assed measures regarding Iraq.
Go ahead Republicans. Show us all how quickly you run to something you wanted to do away with a short time ago. That’s a flip and a flop.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:09 am“The Senate health committee is scheduled on Wednesday to consider a bill that would for the first time allow the Food and Drug Administration to regulate cigarettes.†Health advocates are predicting that, “after more than a decade of debate, this may be the year tobacco regulation is made law.â€
I had no idea we didn’t regulate smokes yet. Maybe that word does not mean what they think it means?
July 17th, 2007 at 10:09 amAce,
One post on megaphone with links works, long multiple posts make the blog hard to read, just saying…..
Frankly I tend to skip over so many posts that long
July 17th, 2007 at 10:10 amAnd you crazy kids are always sayin’ how the White House doesn’t give a rat’s a$$ about the troops…well here’s proof that they….oh wait…..nevermind. My bad.
From Military.com’s newsletter:
With President Bush’s popularity scraping bottom in opinion polls, with U.S. casualties rising in Iraq in a force surge that has stretched soldier tours to 15 months, the Bush administration July 10 said it “strongly opposes†key military pay and benefit gains tossed into their fiscal 2008 defense bill.
The following is a list of what the House panel unanimously approved
1) 3.5 percent pay raise
2) Block TRICARE fee increases
3) CRSC eligibility expansion
4) New survivor indemnity allowance
5) Active Force increases
6) Increased Reserve GI Bill benefits
Initiatives the administration “strongly opposes†include:
1) Bigger Pay Raises
2) Higher TRICARE Fees
3) TRICARE Retail Drugs “Fair Pricing”
4) CRSC Expansion
5) Survivor Indemnity Allowance
6) Reserve GI BILL
Note the WH ‘opposes’ all of the initiatives EXCEPT the strength inrease.
you can read the entire newsletter here:
http://www.military.com/NL_MR/1,14852,4726,00.html
Have a great day, all. =) I’ll check in later.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:10 am““Anyone who has ever wanted to buy gold bullion, walk on heated sidewalks or watch a flock of seagulls will find plenty to love†in the $56 billion budget”
Why would someone who has wanted to watch a flock of seagulls find plenty to love in a budget that allocates money for reducing their numbers? That doesn’t make sense to me.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:11 amNancy Pelosi:
DO YOUR JOB!
IMPEACH
Comment by ace — July 17, 2007 @ 9:17 a
Wanted to share what my Congressman said about Nancy and impeachment yesterday during a phone conversation, he said that Nancy won’t impeach because she believes that keeping Bush in office is more detrimental to Republicans in 2008. She may be right to a point… but impeachment proceedings should begin otherwise, when the Democrat gets elected as President in 2008, they can do anything they want without fear of impeachment.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:12 amhow about some friggin’ updates on the all-night Congress session? all the stories I’m reading this morning are from yesterday afternoon!
July 17th, 2007 at 10:12 amSgt Higgins,
How much of this information REALLY gets out to the troops? When I was in Vietnam, so much of what we heard was from Stars and Stripes and was highly censored, only info from home and friends could get us what was really going on.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:18 amAll the tools available should be used.
Inherent contempt, perjury citations and especially,impeachment should be put back on the table.
Wayne – agreed 100%. Dems will find themselves subject to the “law of diminishing returns” soon if they continue to evade impeachment proceedings when it clearly is their “obligation under the law” and not their “option” at this point – just to further embarass the GOP. I understand their rationale but there comes a time when this will work against them which is nearing right now. When does the tide of resentment and anger turn against them for not fulfilling their obligation to impeach? I’d say it’s already occurring right now the longer they drag their feet.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:19 amSince we can’t seem to get rid of the trolls on this board, how about we start challenging them to debate.
Comment by Katie — July 17, 2007 @ 9:23 am
Oh, sweet, naive Katie.
Trolls only debate on their terms — i.e. they get to define their positions, and ours, they don’t answer any questions that they don’t want to, and the formal rules of logic that you or I might recognize, don’t apply.
Oh, and also, “facts” prove nothing and so can be freely ignored by trolls.
Sound like fun?
July 17th, 2007 at 10:19 amThe Senate overnight session is for tonight. They just conveined at 10AM Go to CSPAN2 for live coverage.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:20 amTo the republics in the Senate, I’d issue this fillibuster challenge…
July 17th, 2007 at 10:21 amBring it on. Bring it on CNN, bring it on TBS, bring it on C-Span, bring it on in front of the entire nation 24X7 until you’ve poisoned your 08 election chances completely.
Bring
It
On.
Re: Comment by Cats R Fly Fishn — July 17, 2007 @ 10:12 am
Nancy Pelosi is right — when you don’t take out the trash, more and more people will get offended by the stink. And that can be to your benefit if the stink can be blamed on the other guy.
I would like to remind her that it’s the REPUBLICANS who put party and agenda ahead of what’s best for the country. And now she’s doing the same thing! True — letting the GOP twist slowly in the wind will be a bonanza for the Dems in November 2008. We’ll win big.
I believe it’s nobler to hold criminals accountable for their actions and do what’s best for the country, even if you have to give up an election windfall for it. And what’s best for the country is getting rid of the demonic team that’s causing us irreparable damage.
C’mon Nancy — we Dems are better than that.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:21 amTripMaster: Here’s the clue – #
Veritas,
What a small,insignificant person you must be ! How long have you been holding back on that “News Breaking†tidbit? What a cute play on Bergers last name! Did you think it up all by yourself? It goes to show with your little whiny comment, that has nothing to do with the blog on hand ,that you Regressive Right Wing Republicans have nothing new to bring to the table! Same ole crap,different day!
Comment by Pee Wee,from Intercourse,Pa — July 17, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Maybe TP banned Mr. P from name jacking as veritas so he returns to attack his own post (#9)….what a total moron! Does he really think he’s fooling any of us?? Not in the least! He’s tried everything to get some of us to dialogue with him but nothing works so he’s trying the name jacking technique. Still won’t work. Some of us don’t acknowledge morons, plain and simple.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:22 amThese lefty trolls are getting out of hand. Its time to take this board back.
Reid the Corpse Leader of the senate acting tough again.
Why not just cut off the war funding, Hairy? Thats your purview, its your discretion, its your right.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:23 amIf anyone posts as “veritas” between now and later this afternoon, it’s definitely NOT me!! But if Mr. President, aka Jake, et al posts using my name, then perhaps he’s actually had that truth epiphany after all?? hahahah!
Levity and love to all of you and keep up the good fight! It is a worthy cause and we shall not be daunted or deterred!
July 17th, 2007 at 10:24 amWhy can’t Pelosi put Impeachment on the table?….AIPAC
July 17th, 2007 at 10:26 amVeritas, should there be a transparent troll of the week award, Mr. Pee would win week after week, after week…
July 17th, 2007 at 10:26 am#
These lefty trolls are getting out of hand. Its time to take this board back.
Reid the Corpse Leader of the senate acting tough again.
Why not just cut off the war funding, Hairy? Thats your purview, its your discretion, its your right.
Comment by Son of Alabastera — July 17, 2007 @ 10:23 am
Thank goodness some of us have a background in linguistics and typing style! Who’s taking bets that our name jacker is not posting under “son of alabastera”. We KNOW it’s our resident idiot troll now.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:26 amComment by veritas — July 17, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Sorry, veritas…I’m just upset that TP seems to think it necessary to delete informative, thoughtful posts like the ones ace brings us, but deliberately allows a namejacker’s handiwork to stand unopposed.
It’s as if TP is trying to drive legitimate posters away…and if they’re not careful, they’ll succeed.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:27 amYeah Molly, sure, and you were first in line to get rid of the criminal Clinton when he lied to a grand jury? A crim is a crim, right, or are there levels of criminality that excuse some from damnation? Not too many investigations into Feinstein’s role of steering war and defense contracts to her husbands companies. Perhaps if she had an (R) after her name it would be more important.
Righteous hypocrites crying about being above the fray. Sure, sure you are. LOL!
July 17th, 2007 at 10:27 amOn a lighter note, are those Klondike Ice Cream bars Harry’s holding in his left hand?
July 17th, 2007 at 10:28 amThe TP monitors know the truth and must be laughing their butts off right now as this name jacking troll attempts to post and cause mayhem on the threads. What a laughingstock fraud he truly is. I guess he doesn’t have a life other than sitting on his computer for 15 hours on end. I do….Have a great day, TP buds! Later/gators!
July 17th, 2007 at 10:28 amLOL, I love you veritas. Pray tell, what is a “background” in linguistics? You took an ebonics class once? Libs are funny when they play the faux-expert.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:29 am…and now MY posts have been deleted. Quelle suprise.
I’m outta here. There’s no point in continuing when TP deletes legitimate posts, and allows troll garbage to remain.
Later, folks. I’ll be on americablog or smirkingchimp if you miss me.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:30 amCNN Throws in Towel, Admits to Two Errors, and States That All ‘Sicko’ Facts Are True to Their Source (or something like that)… Moore Realizes All This is Huge Distraction and Then Spends More Precious Time Thanking Paris Hilton for Seeing ‘Sicko’… Meanwhile, More than 300 Americans Die Because They Had No Health Insurance During the 8-Day Gupta-Moore War…
July 17th, 2007
Friends,
The mighty CNN, in a lengthy and sad online defense of their woe-begotten ‘Sicko’ story of last Monday, has admitted that they did indeed fudge at least two of the facts in their coverage of my film and have apologized for it:
1. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN: “To be clear, I got a number wrong in my original report, substituting the number 25, instead of 251.” — My Conversation with Michael Moore, July 11th, 2007; and
2. CNN: “Moore is correct. Paul Keckley left Vanderbilt in late 2006.” — CNN’s Response to Michael Moore, July 15th, 2007.
Furthermore, CNN confirmed that all of our statistics in “Sicko” are the correct numbers from the sources we cited. Although CNN still prefers to use older World Health Organization statistics, we will stick to using this year’s Bush administration stats and more recent U.N. data. (In “Sicko,” we consistently use only U.N. Human Development Statistics unless it’s for studies they don’t do or have recent numbers for.) CNN did apologize for these two factual errors, but no apology seems to be coming for the rest of their errors. These days, to get the mainstream media to admit they were wrong is rare; to get them to admit it twice, as they have with “Sicko,” I guess should be considered a whopping victory. Will they eventually apologize for the rest, or for their reporting on the war? Will the Cubs win the World Series this year?
So the truce has been signed, the peace pipe has been smoked. And the public is left with a much more cautious and wary eye when it comes to CNN. To be fair, this is what happens when you have to grind out “news” 24 hours a day, seven days a week, with a staff you have shrunk through layoffs over the years (like all the broadcast networks have done). You end up rushed and having interns do your research. You have robots replace live camera operators. And, if you’re CNN, you are constantly dodging the accusation that you are “too liberal.” So when you do a piece on someone like me, you have to make sure you add superfluous and standard ad hominems attacking me simply to prove that you are NOT too liberal. I get it.
Until the last month or so, I have not appeared on a single national TV show for nearly 2 and 1/2 years. After the attacks I had to endure three years ago, from a media intent on questioning my patriotism because I dared to speak out against the war when none in the media would, I decided I had had enough and would simply concentrate on making my next film. I had no desire to participate in networks that were complicit in the war because of their refusal the challenge the commander in chief.
I have to admit, though, I do feel kinda bad taking it all out on Wolf Blitzer. It’s not like he’s the official representative of the mainstream media. I mean, he’s from Buffalo, for crying out loud! He said to me at the end of the show last week to please come back on “anytime you want.” I will take him up on that offer and appear again with him tomorrow (Wednesday). I’m not expecting a dozen roses or make-up sex — I only want a promise that there will be no more distorted distractions so we can have a decent discussion about the REAL issues like why 18,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have a health insurance card. More than 300 of them died this week. As Ehrlichman said to Nixon in “Sicko”: “The less care they give ‘em, the more money they (the insurance companies) make.”
THAT’S the only thing we should be talking about. How profit and greed are killing our fellow Americans. How profit and private insurance have to be removed from our health care system. CNN should join me in asking why our 9/11 rescue workers aren’t receiving medical care. Somebody should send a crew to Canada to find out why they live longer than we do, and why no Canadian has ever gone bankrupt because of medical bills. And all of the media should start saying how much it costs to go to a doctor in these other top industrialized countries: Nothing. Zip. It’s FREE. Don’t patronize Americans by saying, “Well, it’s not free — they pay for it with taxes!” Yes, we know that. Just like we know that we drive down a city street for FREE — even though we paid for that street with our taxes. The street is FREE, the book at the library is FREE, if your house catches on fire, the fire department will come and put it out for FREE, and if someone snatches your purse, the police officer will chase down the culprit and bring your purse back to you — AND HE WON’T CHARGE YOU A DIME FROM THAT PURSE!
These are all free services, collectively socialized and paid for with our tax dollars. To argue that health care — a life and death issue for many — should not be considered in the same league is ludicrous and archaic. And trust me, once you add up what you pay for out-of-pocket in premiums, deductibles, co-pays, overpriced medicines, and treatments that aren’t covered (not to mention all the other things we pay for like college education, day care and other services that many countries provide for at little or no cost), we, as Americans, are paying far more than the Canadians or Brits or French are paying in taxes. We just don’t call these things taxes, but that’s exactly what they are.
See you all when I’m back on CNN tomorrow — where the discussion will be not be about whose statistics are right, but rather about the guy without insurance who died while I was writing this letter.
Yours,
Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com
P.S. Oh… I forgot to tell you about Paris Hilton. Apparently cooped up for too long at home since getting out of jail, she decided to head out for a night on the town. But where does she go? Clubbing? Cruising down the Strip? No! She and her sister decide to go see “Sicko.” Now THAT’S news! So, no more bad words about Paris Hilton!
July 17th, 2007 at 10:32 amSgt Higgins,
How much of this information REALLY gets out to the troops?
Comment by upside00
This newsletter is available to any who sign up for it. It comes to my .mil e-mail address.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:36 amIt’s usually a bit more conservative, so I have to wonder if even the Military.com folks have finally had enough from this administration.
Initiatives the administration “strongly opposes†include:
1) Bigger Pay Raises
2) Higher TRICARE Fees
3) TRICARE Retail Drugs “Fair Pricingâ€
4) CRSC Expansion
5) Survivor Indemnity Allowance
6) Reserve GI BILL
Note the WH ‘opposes’ all of the initiatives EXCEPT the strength inrease.
you can read the entire newsletter here:
http://www.military.com/NL_MR/1,14852,4726,00.html
Have a great day, all. =) I’ll check in later.
Comment by SGT Higgins
Something I have been railing on here for along time.
Something the Bush supporters, sporting their, made in china magnetic “Support the Troops” stickers can’t get through their pointy heads
Add to the the total mess made of the VA by the Bush administration political appointees, none of which ever served.
Yeah, as a Vet I have a personal interest in righting the VA, But it needs to be fixed too. Not just for me, but for you and everyone currently serving and laying their lives on the line.
Support of the Bush administration and their agenda, does not equate to supporting the Troops and Veterans.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:36 am#
…and now MY posts have been deleted. Quelle suprise.
I’m outta here. There’s no point in continuing when TP deletes legitimate posts, and allows troll garbage to remain.
Later, folks. I’ll be on americablog or smirkingchimp if you miss me.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — July 17, 2007 @ 10:30 am
#
Jews should be exterminated!
Heil Hitler!
Comment by Ace — July 17, 2007 @ 10:30 am
Pay attention to what is going on here…deletions, name hijackings.
Either TP is condoning this, and the entire Progressive Movement is a sham, or these agents are themselves capable of literally hijacking an entire thread up to and including deleting postings.
Clearly, yet another name-jacking has occurred above.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:37 amMr. Roboto — sarcasm doesn’t become you very well. I am not claiming that the Democratic party is composed entirely of saints. I am just saying that we have a chance to do what’s best for the country, and that should come before our election prospects. Even if that means the GOP might have a chance to regroup and recover somewhat after the gangrenous limb that is the presidency is removed.
And even though the Dems aren’t perfect, I challenge you to come up with a list of offenses on their part that comes anywhere close to what Bush and Cheney are accused of doing. Or what Nixon was accused of doing. Or even all the corruption during the Reagan administration (Iran-Contra, anyone?)
BTW — it’s “beholden”, not “behoholden”
July 17th, 2007 at 10:39 amCatch you guys later on smirking chimp and americablog. This troll nonsense is ridiculous here.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:40 amI’m outta here. There’s no point in continuing when TP deletes legitimate posts, and allows troll garbage to remain.
Later, folks. I’ll be on americablog or smirkingchimp if you miss me.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — July 17, 2007 @ 10:30 am
I have to agree with TMM…
Just wanted to let you know that I’m feeling optimitistic today… I am retiring Coffins draped with flags in the hope that the Republican filliabuster will keep the public’s eye focused on the illegal Iraq war and I am returning to my original name Cats R Fly Fishn.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:40 amMolly: Mr. Roboto is the same troll. Freeze him out. Hope to catch you later, Molly.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:40 amP.S. Oh… I forgot to tell you about Paris Hilton. Apparently cooped up for too long at home since getting out of jail, she decided to head out for a night on the town. But where does she go? Clubbing? Cruising down the Strip? No! She and her sister decide to go see “Sicko.†Now THAT’S news! So, no more bad words about Paris Hilton!
Comment by unbelievable — July 17, 2007 @ 10:32 am
I read that too, I thought it was hysterical :) It shows Michael Moore does have a sense of humor.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:42 amTripmaster, Katie: I love you guys and I’m happy that you weren’t fooled by this imposter. Since TP has the IP address of both of us, they can now see how the real namejacker on these threads actually is and finally do something about it.
Comment by veritas — July 17, 2007 @ 9:26 am
Unfortunately, this doesn’t matter at all. Hate to break it to you, veritas, but IPs simply do not matter with regards to the troll problem. When I first e-mailed TP about the rampant problem with disruptive posters, TP themselves told me, flat out, point-blank, that they’ve tried to get rid of the trolls. However, each time they banned an IP, the problem troll immediately changes IPs. Identifying, then banning IPs has had absolutely, positively no effect on the trolls. That is straight from TP themselves.
Now, why they refuse to enable a registration program, and some other layer of protection to severely hinder the trolls, I do not know. Your guess is as good as mine.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:44 amVeritas, Tripmaster and others:
If you leave, they’ll just make their way around the internet and do the same thing wherever you go.
Take a stand and make EVERY thread about the tools and techniques employed by foreign operatives to destroy freedom of speech in America.
Don’t run from it – USE IT.
This is simply another form of EVIDENCE to prove to others that things are not as they appear.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:44 amread this :
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20070716230841584
July 17th, 2007 at 10:44 amace
Either TP is condoning this, and the entire Progressive Movement is a sham, or these agents are themselves capable of literally hijacking an entire thread up to and including deleting postings.
Dude, take your tin foil off.
The way TP’s filter works, (or used to work anyways) is based entirely off of key words. If you use one of those words in a post your comment doesn’t show up. However it doesn’t seem to be a complete list of swears and offensive terms, but rather a hand built list by what ever goes for a DBA around these parts. This means the longer your post the more likely you are to use one of the words, even if it’s part of another word, (a**ine for example having a** in it, although i think a** isn’t currently filtered.)
As long as the trolls stick to a limited vocabulary, which they seem to, they almost never hit the filter.
TP has tried several different filters over the past year, including a rate of posting filter, but there where to many complaints from the rank and file, so they seem to have stopped using that one, or at least have a much larger acceptable rate of posting.
Now, why they don’t use a simple email registration, I have no idea, but it prob. has something to do with them being dirty hippies and supporting free speech.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:46 amAs for eliminating the troll’s posts altogether? I’m sure that is simply qa logistical nightmare, considering a third or more of every thread consists of troll droppings…err, posts.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:46 amAce, DrxJ and TMM,
July 17th, 2007 at 10:47 amI greatly appreciate your posts! We will all suffer even more if the administrators can’t fix the problems at hand and you guys leave. This site is becoming a joke. I hardly ever post anymore. Trying to pick through the garbage to find the insightful posters is too time consuming. I hope they do something soon, or I fear I might give up entirely, as well.
Clearly, yet another name-jacking has occurred above.
Comment by ace — July 17, 2007 @ 10:37 am
Hi Ace,
July 17th, 2007 at 10:47 amIt was evident that post was not yours and that your name was hijacked. Little minds, like the name hijacker, have no creativity so they try to steal other people’s identities. It’s sad for them. They are like annoying flies that just keep buzzing around. I skip right past their post. If the trolls want to garner my attention, they need to come up with some original thinking. As it is, they are just like the Republicans that they support… nothing but re-runs and recycled bs.
Moderation
As for eliminating the troll’s posts altogether? I’m sure that is simply qa logistical nightmare, considering a third or more of every thread consists of troll droppings…err, posts.
Actually it’s not that bad, but the issue is that unless they do some sort of registration, the trolls will just use your names even more. For a while I was running my own filter to strip out one troll, but they just started posting with other peoples names, and it became useless.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:50 amSon of Alabastera –
You REALLY think that lying about one’s sex life is on a par with lying to go to war????
This is typical right wing strategy. Instead of defending what your guys are doing, you can only point out whatever sins you can find on the other side.
Again, I state my original point. Doing what is best for the country is a more noble act than doing what is best for your party’s election chances. Now I challenge you to rebut that point by listing YOUR reasons why Bush and Cheney should be impeached or not impeached.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:52 amHow come my post re : Bush cancelling the 2008 elections removed? Why are 9/11 truth posts removed?
The reckless foreign policy this president and this cohorts in crime have concocted over the past 6.5 years is all predicated on what happened that sunny Sept. morning?
Why are 9/11 truth discussions not allowed? What is this? The Chinese Internet?
This is America for Goodness Sake :
July 17th, 2007 at 10:53 amWhy isn’t getting the bottom of 9/11 open for discussion?
So, the Bush Cabal can concoct another 9/11, install Martial Law and cancel the 2008 elections — when is the revolution?
July 17th, 2007 at 10:55 amHow come my post re : Bush canceling the 2008 elections removed? Why are 9/11 truth posts removed?
The reckless foreign policy this president and his cohorts in crime have concocted over the past 6.5 years is all predicated on what happened that sunny Sept. morning?
Why are 9/11 truth discussions not allowed? What is this? The Chinese Internet?
This is America for Goodness Sake :
July 17th, 2007 at 10:56 amWhy isn’t getting to the bottom of 9/11 open for discussion?
Kay
Why are 9/11 truth discussions not allowed? What is this? The Chinese Internet?
They used to strip them out because they didn’t want the site filled up with a bunch of tin-foil hat discussions, don’t know if thats still the case or not.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:58 amsquegeeboo sez:
That doesn’t explain why my posts originally showed up, only to mysteriously disappear five minutes later. It also doesn’t explain why ace’s posts, which were up long enough for people to read and respond to them, also disappeared.
It also doesn’t explain why one of my posts, that simply pointed out that ace’s posts were deleted while an obvious namejacking was allowed to remain at post #9 (which is still there, BTW), and contained no words that could possibly have tripped the filter, also disappeared.
Sorry, but your filter explanation fails on many levels.
I don’t subscribe to ace’s hypothesis that the trolls could be deleting posts, but your “filter” explanation is just plain ludicrous. That leaves only the TP admins. These posts are being deleted by TP admins, because they don’t care for the content. This should be obvious at this point.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:58 amI read that too, I thought it was hysterical :) It shows Michael Moore does have a sense of humor.
Comment by Cats R Fly Fishn — July 17, 2007 @ 10:42 am
He IS funny. During SiCKO I either cried or laughed :D
My mother saw him slam Wolf Blitzer (who she dislikes) and said “I like that guy”, and now she wants to see his movie too. I mention this because my mother has been a life long Republican, who has jumped ship simple because the opposing argument is more humane and rational.
If we can educate people like my mom who represent the Average American, simply by showing them the facts and connecting the dots for them, then I think we are very much on to something (and that is precisely what Moore does – he turns boring statistics into a story that touches you).
I think the only negative is that it takes Moore 3 years to come out with a new movie… :D
July 17th, 2007 at 10:59 amwhat do you mean by “tin-foil hat discussions”??
July 17th, 2007 at 10:59 amComment by Kay — July 17, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Not only your comment, kay, but also my response. Come to the current thread on Americablog and ask me, and I’ll resupply you with the pertinent link.
As ace said in an earlier post (which was subsequently deleted), not allowing discussion of a topic should throw up a red flag in and of itself.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:01 amAdd to the the total mess made of the VA by the Bush administration political appointees,
Comment by Wayne
Wayne,
Thanks for your comments, much appreciated.
I do have to take excepeption to this one, however.
Although I’ve only been in the Army 7.5 years, I now live in DC and have been fortunate enough to work with folks who all have approx. 30-35 years combined active and federal service. They tell me that these VA problems (and especially the WReed issue a few months back) are NOT administration specific. These are problems that have been going on for MANY years.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:04 amOne co-worker told me that building (8 was it?) at WReed has been a horrible place for years. He had visited a friend there in the early 80’s and said it was bad back then.
My personal take? WReed was scheduled to be BRAC’ed in 2011, I can see that sinking $’s into a facility that wasn’t going to be kept would not have been worthwhile. Now that they are fixing it up, there is talk of removing it from the BRAC listing (it may have already been done)
Now, why they don’t use a simple email registration, I have no idea, but it prob. has something to do with them being dirty hippies and supporting free speech.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 17, 2007 @ 10:46 am
Yesterday, I joined a UK blog. No trolls. You have to register. There is no filter for curse words. People seem to follow the rules by choice. It’s freer of speech than here, so I don’t think this is it.
I’m guessing they get more traffic this way. Initially a great idea of a new blog, TP no longer needs to compromise in this area.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:06 amTrip Master Monkey,
I posted my question at AmericaBlog.
Thanks for the direction.
-kay
July 17th, 2007 at 11:08 amKay and all, this site is a fun place to play, but as far as being a serious discussion forum, not so much.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:11 amAny reference to the Z word (not Zooey) or AIPAC in concert with the I word (not Idiot, sorry P.) and the post is zapped.
KOS has a trusted user system, it’s actually kind of hard to become one, but once it is conferred, any poster can request a troll ban and a TU can blast them off the site.
In that forum, right wingers can come and argue, debate and discuss, but if they start acting like our trolls here, their registration is banned.
They can go get another hotmail acct and start over, but that’s actual work, and most of them don’t seem to want to do work to enable their annoying blather.
TP, listening? Your faithful are leaving for sites like AmericaBlog and FiredogLake and KOS…
Hello///>>>???
Hey, TP admins:
The veritas namejack post is still alive and well at #9.
You’ve shown you have no compunction about deleting posts, as shown by the conspicuous absence of several of ace’s posts, not to mention a few of mine, on this thread alone. How about you delete some posts that deserve it, for once?
July 17th, 2007 at 11:11 amComment by Kay — July 17, 2007 @ 11:08 am
Responded to, Kay. Thanks.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:17 amTripMaster Monkey
It also doesn’t explain why one of my posts, that simply pointed out that ace’s posts were deleted while an obvious namejacking was allowed to remain at post #9 (which is still there, BTW), and contained no words that could possibly have tripped the filter, also disappeared.
Sorry, but your filter explanation fails on many levels.
If it was a set list of filtered words, then it would fail, but my understanding is that they are (or at least were) constantly tweaking the filter, which is why I said it is not a set list. I have had all sorts of posts stripped out due to odd combinations of words, or of words that you wouldn’t think would trigger it. I think the filter ignores whitespace, and doesn’t look at a whole word, but rather just searches for key character strings.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:20 amIn the future : I’ll be at AmericaBlog.
Maybe I’ll come back to TP if I want to talk about Paris Hilton, Britney Spears or the Runaway Bride…
July 17th, 2007 at 11:27 amsquegeeboo sez:
The post where I pointed out that ace’s posts had been deleted, while the namejacking was allowed to stand contained no objectionable words or series of words. If a “filter” deleted that post, it would have deleted half of the posts on the site.
Also, I noticed how you skipped over the inconvenient fact that these posts originally posted normally, in several cases long enough to inspire replies, only to be deleted later.
The behavior we’re seeing is inconsistent with the explanation of a badly tuned filter. It is entirely consistent, however, with the explanation of a human operative weeding out posts that conflict with a clandestine agenda.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:33 amTripMaster Monkey
Also, I noticed how you skipped over the inconvenient fact that these posts originally posted normally, in several cases long enough to inspire replies, only to be deleted later.
If you have a changing list of filtered words, posts can appear and disappear as that list changes. Inconvenient to the readers, but not as inconvenient of a fact as you’d like it to be.
while the namejacking was allowed to stand contained no objectionable words or series of words.
Nothing objectionable to you or me, but maybe to others. Like RU said above, the Z word dosn’t do so well in these parts, for example, or a**ine, nothing wrong with that word, but it contains a naughty one in it.
If you tweak your posts when you run into disappearing/reappearing or just not appearing posts, you can figure out which words are triggering the filter, and then your posts don’t get touched any more. Trust me, I’ve spent enough time being frustrated in the past, and except for 9/11 threads (which they do seem to occasionally edit) it’s just the work of a shitty filter.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:40 am“War supporters responded yesterday to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) call for an up-or-down vote on Iraq withdrawal legislation by threatening a permanent Iraq filibuster. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell proposed “an automatic 60-vote threshold for all key Iraq amendments.”"
Um, that’s a little out of context. According to the article:
“Given the GOP’s position, Reid said he would require 60 votes on all Republican-backed Iraq proposals, which could spill the Senate debate well into next week. “It’s ‘turnabout is fair play,’ ” Reid said.”
So it’s REID who played the “permanent filibuster” card; McConnell’s just responding in kind — turnabout being, as Reid says, fair play.
That said, Reid’s the one representing the will of the American people and McConnell’s the one attempting to thwart it. So the public will favor Reid on this.
The question is, will the Dems back down the next time a funding bill comes down the pipe, like they did in May? Unfortunately, I’m guessing they will.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:44 amasinine
…just one ’s’
:D
July 17th, 2007 at 11:44 amunbelievable
…just one ’s’
:D
July 17th, 2007 at 11:46 amTouche.
I don’t want to cue in any trolls, but if any of the Atheists/Agnostics here want a great blog of like-minded thinking people from the UK, Canada, the US and Australia, google the famous author of the most current NYT best seller and UK biologist :D
I’m Simone de Beauvoir if you make it over there…
July 17th, 2007 at 11:48 amTouche.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 17, 2007 @ 11:46 am
Wasn’t reprimanding, just thought you’d like to know…
July 17th, 2007 at 11:53 amDude, if we can’t even get 60 votes to end the war, there’s no way in HELL we’re getting 63 for impeachment.
Sorry, but even if Pelosi tries, it ain’t gonna work.
I mean, what more does this slimy bastard have to do?
July 17th, 2007 at 11:54 amsquegeeboo sez:
That’s just plain idiotic. You’re stretching this “filter” excuse beyond the breaking point. Why are you so dead set against believing that the posts may have been deleted by a human being?
As I said, my post contained no such words. The only words that could have possibly been “objectionable” would have been “agenda” and “9/11″. I can’t imagine “agenda” being a verboten word, and as for “9/11″, your previous post would seem to confirm that simple mention of the event is permissible.
Also, since this post contains both words and managed to post, that would argue against your “filter” theory, in any case.
At this point, you’ll probably state that the filter is looking for not just words, but specific combinations thereof. The trouble is, the longer these “combinations” are, the more difficult it is for a computer to parse them correctly. Reading and interpreting long strings of words is a job that is still best suited to a human. Frankly, I find the hypothesis of such a flexible and powerful filter on a site that can’t seem to handle user registration and threaded discussions a trifle on the far side of absurd.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:54 amunbelievable
Wasn’t reprimanding, just thought you’d like to know…
I figured it was one of those known unknowns.
July 17th, 2007 at 11:54 amTripMaster Monkey
That’s just plain idiotic. You’re stretching this “filter†excuse beyond the breaking point. Why are you so dead set against believing that the posts may have been deleted by a human being?
Why are you so dead set on that being what did happen?
But as to why I’m sticking with the filter view, that would be because over the past year, as some threads have had good or bad filtering occurring, I’ve sent TP some emails complaining, and they told me it was all done by an automated filter, and that they had been trying to tweak it to get it running better.
The only words that could have possibly been “objectionable†would have been “agenda†and “9/11″.
I had no idea you had the market cornered on what counts as objectionable.
At this point, you’ll probably state that the filter is looking for not just words, but specific combinations thereof.
It might be, I never played with it that much, I just played with individual words to get mine to show up.
Frankly, I find the hypothesis of such a flexible and powerful filter on a site that can’t seem to handle user registration and threaded discussions a trifle on the far side of absurd.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:02 pmWell it clearly isn’t that flexible or powerful, due to all the issues it has. So maybe they should drop the filter and go back to using a human to sort thru the threads instead.
If the RNC wants a “permanent filibuster,” this would effecitvley shut down the Senate: Makes the President’s call for “working on other legislation other than impeachment” meaningless.
An impeachment would destroy the RNC filibuster threat: The House Managers would take control of the Senate floor, and the GOP Senators would have to be remain silent listening to the evidence.
Time for the DNC to decide: Do they want to let the GOP shut down the Senate; or would they like to let the DNC House shut down the Senate with an impeachment?
Do the GOP SEnators want the DNC House to filibuster in the Senate with an impeachment? Keep it up. It makes no sense to argue, “We don’t ahve time to impeach, we need to legislate;” but then waste time filibustering.
Putting above aside: Why didn’t the DNC permanently filibuster; and if the “nuclear option” was real, why hasn’t the DNC offered that threat? Oh, that’s right, DNC has to cave in to the GOP minority. So much for representative democracy. How’s that Hamas liking their demoracy; and is it any wonder why the Taliban oppose the democracies? Get real.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pmsquegeeboo sez:
Because that’s the conclusion that is supported by the available evidence.
So…your argument is “that’s what they told me”? Did it ever occur to you that if they wanted to shape the discussion on this site by weeding out posts that conflicted with their agenda, they most probably wouldn’t disclose this fact to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that sent them an email?
OK, smart guy, here’s the text of the post in question, as close as I can recall:
Care to point out the ‘objectionable’ string of words in that post that would have tripped a filter?
Congratulations. You just contradicted yourself. In order for the filter to be as selective in deleting posts as is observed, it would have to be that flexible and powerful. As I said before, a badly tuned filter would not generate the results we’re observing. A human censor would.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pmTripMaster Monkey
veritas’ screen
Well, you have a** in there if you remove the punctuation, and you have several terms that other people claim to use when their comments are stripped, so maybe it takes several no-no’s in one comment.
Did it ever occur to you that if they wanted to shape the discussion on this site by weeding out posts that conflicted with their agenda
It did, but why bother being paranoid about an internet blog.
You just contradicted yourself. In order for the filter to be as selective in deleting posts as is observed, it would have to be that flexible and powerful.
Or it’s a poorly built attempt to be a flexible and powerful filter. I only have limited experience in coding along these lines, but if you have even a slightly off initial training set, or to large of an initial range for training, or too fast/slow of a rate of learning your results can be pretty fair off from what you want.
Additionally it takes a huge amount of data for it to learn to have the desired end results, and if they turn the filter off when people complain to much, which also seems to happen (some weeks, no issues, other weeks, a bloody mess) it will take it even longer to learn if it is an attempt at a filter more advanced than just individual words.
July 17th, 2007 at 12:23 pmThe deletions that occur on this site have nothing whatsoever to do with any filter, and the agent here suggesting as much is just that, an agent.
No filter allows content to post for a minute, an hour, a day or a week, then deletes it.
Nice try.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:03 pmace
No filter allows content to post for a minute, an hour, a day or a week, then deletes it.
Your wrong? A filter that either has a changing set of words to look for, or a filter that is ‘flexible and powerful’ enough to search for key terms/words through out a thread could both add/remove posts after their initial posting and/or removal.
the agent here suggesting as much is just that, an agent.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pmOohhh, I’m an agent now. To bad I like a nice IPA more than a Martini.
You have virtually no proof whatsoever that a filter of any sort was involved in any posts being deleted here (NONE), and the facts are not in your favor. You are speculating with intent to disinform – and you are here to get the last word for that purpose.
July 17th, 2007 at 1:29 pmYou have virtually no proof whatsoever that a filter of any sort was involved in any posts being deleted here (NONE), and the facts are not in your favor.
You have no proof they were deleted by a person, and from your previous posts, you clearly have no idea how a filter can be set up:
No filter allows content to post for a minute, an hour, a day or a week, then deletes it.
Meaning that you have no idea if the facts could be in my favor or not, due to your apparent lack of technical knowledge in this regard (unless your playing dumb)
You are speculating with intent to disinform
July 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pmI am speculating with the intent to inform, using the information that has been provided to me in the past by TP, and by my understanding of how filters work, and my limited work in AI (in case it is a ‘powerful, flexible’ system) to provide a theory that differs from building a conspiracy theory around a blog.
and you are here to get the last word for that purpose.
No I’m not.
Comment by squegeeboo — July 17, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I wouldn’t guess a filter, I would guess a grossly underpowered Database. That is running so slow that it is creating duplicate records and the initial one is being overwritten by the new record with the same Comment_ID
July 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pmWrite Faiz regarding name hijacking
FShakir@americanprogress.org
July 17th, 2007 at 2:13 pmhttp://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html
Former Reagan Official says:
July 17th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Looks like the self styled Mr. President got an early start jacking veritas’ name. What a sad little man…
Comment by Krazny — July 17, 2007 @ 9:21 am
July 17th, 2007 at 2:54 pm————————————————–
Looks like more false accusations from an oblivious Lefty. No wonder your votes don’t count…
Just wondering if I can post “ass”…
July 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pmSqueegee – see #145
July 17th, 2007 at 2:58 pmI think the only negative is that it takes Moore 3 years to come out with a new movie… :D
Comment by unbelievable — July 17, 2007 @ 10:59 am
unbelievable -
Hi – Yeah I laughed and cried during Sicko, too. The part that really gripped me was seeing the homeless woman dumped on the side of the street and wondering around confused. That really broke my heart. What kind of society would do that to another human being?
Just want to say… going back to “Cats R Fly Fishn” feels refreshing. I feel lighter. I hope our troops start getting redeployed too so that they can start feeling relief. I didn’t realize that just using the name “Coffins draped with flags” would put such a drag on my feelings. It must be terrible for our troops and families.
July 17th, 2007 at 3:06 pmHmmm
Squeegee – see #145
Fair enough, ass does not appear to be currently filtered.
July 17th, 2007 at 4:08 pmStill think it’s funny.
July 17th, 2007 at 9:39 pmhttp://web.mac.com/ryskind/iWeb/Site/The%20Ryskind%20Sketchbook.html